The new Jimquisition is being posted here because one of the characters he discusses on this video is Sonic. How Sonic’s way of being cool is outdated, thus is lame in new games when he walks around going “Dude, totally awesome Tails!”
In an odd way, I agree with this part. I disagree with what he says after. He suggests that SEGA make Sonic a joke, you know, a character that doesn’t try to take himself seriously. I think this is a mistake. The whole “Dude I’m totally cool” was basically marketing stuff and I think a silent Sonic is the best medicine.
Sonic’s design is timeless. It will always look awesome. His attitude is best left like it was in the classics, a silent picture.Ad:
20 responses to “Jimquisition discusses Sonic trying too hard to be cool”
Wasn't this approach somewhat embraced in Sonic Colors? That is to say, self aware? I recall a handful of scenes where Sonic's routine was actually the butt of the joke.
Yeeeeeeah no. I grew up on Sonic Heroes and SA2B and I'm not the only one who has. It'd be almost insulting if Sonic became a silent protagonist. Trying too hard to be cool was Sonic's charm, he tried to hard, that's what made him interesting. That he could naturally pull off these amazing moves and almost felt obligated to act the part of someone who's awesome enough to do it.
That is where the issue lies, not all Sonic gamers played the Genesis classics. Though I think a story could be told through silence, Pixar did a great job showing lovable characters that don't speak. Wall-e being a great example.
I just think SEGA should stop thinking "Yeah, people just want Sonic to talk" and giving him garbage lines.
I agree with radrappy, sonic colors fixed what he is pointing out, but then again, he gave that game a 4.5
At the same time the Genesis games were taking place he was talking in cartoons and all that stuff.
Sonic was always designed to talk and as soon as the hardware made it practical, he was given a voice. I don't think he was ever designed to be a "silent character" I just think for hardware purposes, that was the case. At first.
And the cartoons had plots about having cousins in metal bands etc. Doubt the creators intended this.
If they wanted Sonic to talk, they had the ability to give him loads of talking parts in Sonic CD, you know the technology that basically bragged about movie like stuff on disc?
@george well, using sonic underground instead of SATAM as a example is abit low. also those cartoons were made for the north American audience while sonic CD was made purely by Sega japan(which btw sonic did talk "I'm outa here" ring a bell?) which as far as i know never had any form of sonic on TV until Sonic X.
"I'm outta here" =/= Sonic Adventure 2 type story.
I actually prefer Sonic to have a voice.
I prefer silent or minimal. I mean, it seems to me that SEGA just makes him talk for he sake of talking or making a game longer. "OH TAILS BLAHB LAHB ALBHA LBAH"
I think the way to fix the problem would simply to have multiple types of Sonic games for the different fans…
Instead of calling every new Sonic game something different have 3 or 4 ongoing 'series' that pander to the different kinds of fans, so they know what they're getting from name alone.
-Classic Sonic: (Sonic the Hedgehog series)
Classic gameplay only, classic Sonic only, no speaking, all story though actions.
Self aware, comical, modern sonic with powerups and crazy plots. But a better script. There were some jokes in Colours that really fell flat.
Fast gameplay, Great music!
This is pretty much what the modern 3D Sonic games are like today, Modern Sonic in Generations and Unleashed played more like Sonic Rush then anything else…
-Modern Sonic: (Sonic Adventure)
Big silly storylines, douchey rock music, monsters, 100 playable characters, fishing mini games. Basically Sonic Adventure.
Get two teams in SonicTeam each creating two of these 'series' and release 1 or 2 a year… P.S never make a shitty fighting/racing/golfing/party mini game again.
by "im outa here" i ment when you leave sonic idle for a min in sonic CD he says that line then jumps off screen giving you a game over.
a tad much to ask for one company to do.
I think this whole thing is a non-issue. Colors made it work well. I mean, Sonic is a product of the 90's. To strip him of the occasional "dude", "man" and "cool" would be robbing him of his personality. I say that if people still say "dude", "man" and "cool" nowadays, then so can Sonic.
The concept of an all silent Sonic in a 3D game is lame (I know Generations has this, but it will be countered by a talking Modern Sonic). How would he have banter with Eggman? How would he converse with Tails? Yes, one could argue that there could simply be no plot and everything could be pantomime, but I think that would get old FAST. One of Colors strongest scenes was Sonic, Tails and Eggman at the elevator car. That required dialogue, and thanks to the dialogue we got a nice bit of Sonic playing older brother to Tails and Eggman and Sonic sharing quite a heated conversation which did well in boiling the player's blood before heading into the final boss fight. Of course I was going to defeat Eggman anyway, but that extra bit of dialogue drove me to want to kick his ass on an emotional level too. I kid you not, when I beat him I gave the TV the middle finger and said "Fuck you, Eggman!". Felt good.
I totally agree with you Barry. The Egg Dragoon boss fight in Sonic Unleashed was so much cooler because of the banter between Eggman and Sonic.
I personally don't really like silent protagonists that much (unless it's an RPG like Fallout or something) so I'm happy that SEGA made the decision to make the Sonic cast talk, it really made the series come alive for me.
"I think the way to fix the problem would simply to have multiple types of Sonic games for the different fans…"
That would make things so convoluted. Basically, tearing apart the character to the point of it being so centered one aspect of his personality that it becomes void of any character.
How about not making Sonic saying stupid shit? Keep the WAY COOL personality, but not as a painful memory of a relic of the 90s, like Surfing Ninjas or those horrible Shaquille O'Neal movies.
Do what Chris Nolan did with Batman. Turn it from a complete joke like Batman & Robin (which I thought was okay) and turn it into something not completely serious, but seriously good, know what I'm saying?
"Though I think a story could be told through silence, Pixar did a great job showing lovable characters that don’t speak. Wall-e being a great example."
The one thing I've seen animation (2D and 3D) do so well is having the characters speak in their actions and with their faces. "UP" had this amazing and beautiful story in the first five minutes that told a whole old man's story.
So, the people saying "a character just gotta talk!", wank you!
j/k, but that is such a powerful art form when done well. Is Sonic Pixar material, I don't know, but I'd like to see that. In fact, with a character like Soinc that has gotten so much shit, I'd like to see him in a role like in the film, "The Wrestler".
Have you seen "Night of the Werehog" Matty? I got a bit of a Pixar vibe from it and Sonic barely says anything in the short.
As a side note, the more I look at that picture of Jimquistion, the more I can't stand him. >_>
@SMT_Xero not at all, the Hedgehog Engine is there for this purpose. They can create different kinds of Sonic game on a really nice looking engine.
They already have the gameplay down for Sonic Colours and my proposed Sonic 'Rush' idea which are semi-similar. Now, with Sonic Generations they have the classic gameplay down too.
I don't think it is too much to ask at all! Considering Sonic 4, Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations will all be out with in a year or two of each other and Sonic Generations is basically 2 games in one.
They could get two teams (As they have done in the past) and have them alternating between the game types, each game could have 3 years in development and they can still have a Sonic game out every year with ensured quality!
This is really what NEEDS to be done to keep all Sonic fans happy. Cut down on pointless shit like Sonic Riders and Sonic Rivals and suddenly they free up even more time and resources for development.
"Sonic was always designed to talk"
This assertion is backed by nothing. Sonic was based off of felix the cat for crissakes. He was designed to emote effectively WITHOUT dialogue. That's like, the entire point.
I'm going to propose something controversial when I say, "sega, do not make any attempt to cater to the modern crowd." The entire demographic is based on games that blow. In abandoning that pursuit altogether, you could concentrate on crafting a legacy of good games that would sell great with or without the people that grew up on SA2:B. Keep sonic quiet, lose all the friends, lose the butt rock, and in the process lose the emo furry fan base. Dignity restored, coffers filled, franchise saved. Badabing badaboom.
I started writing this to humorous but changed my mind and have decided that this is the path to salvation.
Well, the thing is, Sonic the Hedgehog's persona, so to speak was indeed rooted in 90's culture. But the thing is, is that back in the day Sonic never spoke, however, the closest thing around that is that were the two cartoon series that were released, which portrayed Sonic the Hedgehog in the most stereotypical 90's fashion (to which I am seriously embarrased as to even take a second glance).
Sonic the Hedgehog was, in short, a moron, a slacker and lacked any remotely iniciative and as far as being a team player, he was just the guy who you would have on mission because at least the robots would have someone to shoot at while everybody else does their job.
Also, Tails as an equally brain-dead toddler wasn't cool…
Oddly enough, from Sonic Adventure onwards, the character took a slight change, Sega has established, somewhat, that Sonic, while still being humurous, is a world weary traveller and while not text book smart, savvy enough to understand how the world works and brooding enough.
Sonic didn't need that "he thinks he so cool when he isn't"-type, because at that point, Knuckles was there to serve as that joke character, since he had a history of being tricked by Dr. Eggman on a routinely basis.
The unfortunate downside is that Sonic 2006, the main protagonist was just too brooding and way too serious. That perhaps was too much and since then, they've tried to find a good middle ground.