Author Topic: New Yakuza  (Read 219132 times)

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2014, 04:29:33 am »
I'm countering the point you made that artists should be okay making the same game over and over again because "they're being paid" and "they're making games."

I said that I'd think most artists would look for more than that.

Was Naka the Chief Creative Officer? That's a pretty major position.

But that's what was argued; someone said that he is "stuck" making Yakuza games. I pointed out that Nagoshi's actually in the position where he can choose his projects. He chooses to make the Yakuza games.

Though it's hard to say exactly how these decisions are made, I think it's pretty safe to say that as Sega's Chief Creative Officer, Nagoshi has a say in the types of games Sega puts out.

Because they don't really have the freedom like they did when they were just making video games. Its proven that game developers sometimes don't make the best game executives. At least in Sega.  You'd think at least in the position that Naka and Nagoshi is in the overall output from Sega would have improved. But remember this, Sega had an internal development structure that each dev team was in competition with the other team. That's part of the reason why Sega had so many great games down the years. So add that and the ego that you get with a superstar developer, if he sees a game idea that he feels is better than what he has...what do you think will happen? "It won't sell".."its not sega enough"
.."its too westernized, we only sell for japan" and other stupid excuses. While some may scoff at this its a sad part of life that some people think about themselves rather than what's good for the company as a whole.  Its all politics at the end of the day.

Its not a personal playpen either. These guys also answer to the big board who expects Nagoshi to keep churning out YAKUZA. But compared to what he use to produce he was making 4-5 games in a 4 year period. Now all he's done is YAKUZA, HEROBANK and BD. And they have been the focus of Sega's resources, so its not like he's not benefiting but he hasn't kept close attention on those games like he would have if he wasn't responsible as an executive for the company overall. Otherwise what happened with BD would never have happened. YAKUZA became a hit partly due to Nagoshi protecting the game and marketing from outside sources and took it upon himself to do the PR in another way. BD other than the finance problems Sega had was marketed horribly and part of the reason why it flopped.



Offline Ben

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2014, 03:01:29 pm »
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You can't really counter it like that and ignore all the other points. And picking fruits is not the same as working in a well paid job nor is Yakuza a shovel ware title.

A better example may have been an over-the-phone telephone insurance man, whatever, lol. You're harping on the completely wrong points of what I said, which makes me think you totally misunderstood my post to begin with.

What points did I ignore?

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Because they don't really have the freedom like they did when they were just making video games. Its proven that game developers sometimes don't make the best game executives. At least in Sega.   

I am not disagreeing with this at all. I'm not sure why you're trying to argue a point that everyone's in agreement with. Regarding Naka and Suzuki, I don't believe either ever were ever in the position of being Chief Creative Officer for the company, or even close to it. I don't think it's comparable.

While I agree that it's not entirely Nagoshi's fault, (he does, as you point out, have to answer to a board) I don't think you can express disappointment with the types of games a company's putting out without placing at least some of the blame on their Chief Creative Officer.

I take issue with Nagoshi because as Chief Creative Officer, he seems to be focusing his company's efforts almost entirely on the Yakuza franchise, which is no longer released to Western fans, which makes me think that he doesn't care at all about us. Why not have a team develop something that will be able to see release in Western territories?




Offline jonboy101

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2014, 10:40:10 am »
Why would he care about us? The Yakuza franchise never made any money in the west, and Sega's been spending plenty of money buying and building up western development teams. There seems to be little incentive in translating the games, to be perfectly honest. They sell poorly and get mediocre reviews over here.

I imagine that Sega will continue to build up their western stables for PC gaming and gradually cease making large scale console games in Japan in favor of mobile. It'll also be interesting to see if the bill to legalize casinos makes it through Japan's parliament, and how that impacts the dwindling pachinko market.

Offline Aki-at

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2014, 10:33:02 pm »
A better example may have been an over-the-phone telephone insurance man, whatever, lol. You're harping on the completely wrong points of what I said, which makes me think you totally misunderstood my post to begin with.

What points did I ignore?

I understood your point perfectly and replied in kind. If you want to take time and re-read my first post to you you'll see which ones you ignored.

Offline Ben

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2014, 12:01:04 am »
I understood your point perfectly and replied in kind. If you want to take time and re-read my first post to you you'll see which ones you ignored.

Maybe you can highlight them, because I can't figure it out.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2014, 06:44:30 am »
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I am not disagreeing with this at all. I'm not sure why you're trying to argue a point that everyone's in agreement with. Regarding Naka and Suzuki, I don't believe either ever were ever in the position of being Chief Creative Officer for the company, or even close to it. I don't think it's comparable.

It is comparable because they were given more responsibilities than just doing the job they were actually good at. You can see the moment when Naka, Suzuki and Nagoshi took these executive positions that their game output suffered. SONIC(which in my opinion never had a good game since the MD/CD era) defiantly suffered. Suzuki didn't make that many Sega games either and Nagoshi's only attempt was BD which was never given a chance but compared to the output he and his studio use to release its pathectic. i won't even bother going into detail about Hisao Oguchi and how his mismanagement of Sega phucked things up as well as Hitmaker becoming the VIRTUA TENNIS studio and not much else. But he was always a good yes man...
The point is that their focus wasn't on their studio or their creations and the games started to suffer for it.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2014, 06:48:04 am »
Why would he care about us? The Yakuza franchise never made any money in the west, and Sega's been spending plenty of money buying and building up western development teams. There seems to be little incentive in translating the games, to be perfectly honest. They sell poorly and get mediocre reviews over here.

I imagine that Sega will continue to build up their western stables for PC gaming and gradually cease making large scale console games in Japan in favor of mobile. It'll also be interesting to see if the bill to legalize casinos makes it through Japan's parliament, and how that impacts the dwindling pachinko market.

Or Jonboy..buy other companies like Atlus or Capcom and let them carry the can while only continuing to make a SONIC or a YAKUZA every few years while the bulk of the output is Arcade and digital. That way you maintain your market presence via your subsidiaries in japan and the west while spending minimal R and D yourselves for consoles. Not saying that is their new direction or intention ...

Offline Ben

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2014, 05:30:00 pm »
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It is comparable because they were given more responsibilities than just doing the job they were actually good at. You can see the moment when Naka, Suzuki and Nagoshi took these executive positions that their game output suffered. SONIC(which in my opinion never had a good game since the MD/CD era) defiantly suffered. Suzuki didn't make that many Sega games either and Nagoshi's only attempt was BD which was never given a chance but compared to the output he and his studio use to release its pathectic. i won't even bother going into detail about Hisao Oguchi and how his mismanagement of Sega phucked things up as well as Hitmaker becoming the VIRTUA TENNIS studio and not much else. But he was always a good yes man...
The point is that their focus wasn't on their studio or their creations and the games started to suffer for it.

I understand what you're saying.

But the point being made isn't that Nagoshi's games are suffering (honestly he's mainly been making the same games for the past 7+years anyway) it's that he's in a position of power where he's almost directly in charge of his company's creative output.

So even if he's not able to sit in on the development of every single game due to his obligations, at the very least he's responsible for the types of projects being greenlit.

Which is all that's been said. Again, nobody's disputing the rest, that key developers being given higher up positions can make their games suffer. I'm not sure that's the case here, however.

What I do know is that as Chief Creative Officer, Nagoshi plays a big role in the types of games Sega's releasing. That was what we were discussing.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 05:31:44 pm by Ben »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2014, 04:50:19 am »
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I take issue with Nagoshi because as Chief Creative Officer, he seems to be focusing his company's efforts almost entirely on the Yakuza franchise,


He's an arrogant man that's  too stuck in the past and can't see what's happing . All he's got to offer is Yakuza , its sad and Pathetic really . He's running the best team inside SEGA and he's runing them into the ground with yearly updates of the same game - No wonder staff like Udea-san wanted out .


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Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2014, 05:49:51 am »
I understand what you're saying.

But the point being made isn't that Nagoshi's games are suffering (honestly he's mainly been making the same games for the past 7+years anyway) it's that he's in a position of power where he's almost directly in charge of his company's creative output.

So even if he's not able to sit in on the development of every single game due to his obligations, at the very least he's responsible for the types of projects being greenlit.

Which is all that's been said. Again, nobody's disputing the rest, that key developers being given higher up positions can make their games suffer. I'm not sure that's the case here, however.

What I do know is that as Chief Creative Officer, Nagoshi plays a big role in the types of games Sega's releasing. That was what we were discussing.


You're very naive in the realities of game development and game company politics. I'm not really going to repeat myself either. The evidence is out there for all to see. Even TA kept harping about Naka leaving Sega just to be free from the burden of responsibility placed upon him in his corporate capacity within Sega. And i disagreed with him in the fact that Naka wanted it in the first place and was given way too many chances. The point is for whatever reason their game output suffered. Nagoshi didn't just make YAKUZA games in his heyday. Yet he's become lazy, too corporate and not really using anything to his real ability. I'm not going to complain that YAKUZA is coming out all the time because all Japanese companies exploit a franchise especially when they have invested a lot of money in the engine, they need to keep using it and gain their investment back before they retool it for the next gen. But he sure hasn't done anything much other than that title. And since he's been in charge of development Sega hasn't come up with that many killer app if at all. Considering that guy's pedigree and his reputation(and his many articles going on about what's wrong with game development in EDGE) that's just criminal. For whatever reason getting a executive position affects people in different ways and none of them has been positive.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2014, 05:52:37 am »

He's an arrogant man that's  too stuck in the past and can't see what's happing . All he's got to offer is Yakuza , its sad and Pathetic really . He's running the best team inside SEGA and he's runing them into the ground with yearly updates of the same game - No wonder staff like Udea-san wanted out .




A bit strong...but i wouldn't say that...but yes things could be better...At least Suzuki left AM2 in good hands and they still produced some quality games, i dunno why Nagoshi can't do the same if he can't put all his attention to it.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2014, 08:41:21 am »
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At least Suzuki left AM2 in good hands and they still produced some quality games


AM#2 have good set of producers and a great R&D line and that helps a lot


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Yet he's become lazy, too corporate and not really using anything to his real ability.

Worst still he's over see the best set of developers inside SEGA. I bet the likes of Kikuchi-san will soon want to do their own thing and also leave SEGA Japan - and then SEGA Japan is in serious trouble







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Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2014, 09:50:03 am »

AM#2 have good set of producers and a great R&D line and that helps a lot


Worst still he's over see the best set of developers inside SEGA. I bet the likes of Kikuchi-san will soon want to do their own thing and also leave SEGA Japan - and then SEGA Japan is in serious trouble









Sega japan is already in trouble creative wise..why do you think i sold most of my shares....

Offline jonboy101

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2014, 02:27:12 pm »
I don't know if they're in trouble financially though. From a business perspective I think they're in the process of rebuilding and making reasonably good moves. I might be mistaken, but they seem financially quite healthy.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Yakuza
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 03:26:00 am »
I don't know if they're in trouble financially though. From a business perspective I think they're in the process of rebuilding and making reasonably good moves. I might be mistaken, but they seem financially quite healthy.

Oh no they're fine when it comes to money...its just i'm not into the digital focus of the company. That's why i got rid of the shares i invested over the years..the only thing that i have is my dad's share in sega which i wouldn't sell.