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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: George on February 06, 2010, 10:15:19 pm

Title: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on February 06, 2010, 10:15:19 pm
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Next-Gen_Box_Art.JPG) >>(http://http://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/sonic_320.jpg?w=320&h=199)
What happen to Sonic the Hedgehog 2 & 3?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 06, 2010, 10:22:01 pm
Oh ho ho!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 06, 2010, 10:24:43 pm
I played them on my Wii when they came out. The graphics are crappy and they are too hard. What happened to Shadow and Silver? They are way better characters mew
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 06, 2010, 10:47:03 pm
Glad to see were keeping up the sarcastic bullshit I hated you all for on SegaNerds.  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 06, 2010, 11:32:36 pm
I never played the other Sonics. I only buy Hard Copies of games. None of this downloadable junk (SEGA, make Sonic 4 on disc!).

I have Smash Bros, tho, and I know Tails, Knuckles, and Silver are in the first few games. They are all in Green Hill Zone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 07, 2010, 01:40:38 pm
I can actually type into this site from my iPhone.
Unlike that other (which shall remain nameless) piece of junk.

I want to be excited but for some reason i'm just not.
Is it me or does Sonic look too big on the screen?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on February 07, 2010, 01:46:55 pm
I'm annoyed by the running animation, but I know we haven't seen anything yet, so let's wait.

But homing attacks?
Anyway, everyone is excited for this, but I have a feeling it will flop... I didn't have this feeling with Sonic 06 or the Black Knight... So this one must be good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 07, 2010, 02:01:22 pm
What's wrong with the running animation?
Is it too slow?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 07, 2010, 02:03:23 pm
RubyEclipse (SEGA Employee) said that isn't the fastest animation of Sonic running, and that we will see the fastest one sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 07, 2010, 02:04:40 pm
Yes the run animation is to slow apparently however it was adressed by a Sega community manager:

Quote
Hello everyone!

Today we have some good news to bring you guys in regard to Sonic's running animation in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I! Specifically, we wanted to cover a topic that many of you have asked about after seeing the trailer.

Q: Is the running animation in the trailer what Sonic's fastest running animation will look like in Sonic the Hedgehog 4? It looks kind of slow, don't you think?

A: Actually, it is not his fastest speed! There is a faster animation for Sonic's running that was not shown in the trailer, and is more akin to what you might be familiar seeing from Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic CD.

So there you have it! We'll get to show you guys firsthand what that running animation looks like in the future - but until then, rest assured that there's a lot more to the game than what you saw in the trailer: running animations included.

Have a great weekend,
Ruby
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on February 07, 2010, 02:15:10 pm
addressed*
(Yes, I am an ***)

Hope they release all episodes on one disc.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on February 07, 2010, 03:49:24 pm
I hope so, too.

I don't feel like clogging my Xbox 360 hard drive with episodic content.

I already felt like I wasted money on Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition last summer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 07, 2010, 04:10:01 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
I hope so, too.

I don't feel like clogging my Xbox 360 hard drive with episodic content.

I already felt like I wasted money on Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition last summer.

Dude, that game was great!

But anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic about this. Smart money never ever bets on Sonic Team doing good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 07, 2010, 04:30:22 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Is it me or does Sonic look too big on the screen?
I think it's roughly the same screen area as the first one.. Not very usual these days though.

About the animations, it's like they made a 3D sprite sheet. There are no animation transitions. You turn around, Sonic simply flips horizontally.

(god, I love being able to use auto text correction again)

I like that. It just looks classic and functional.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 07, 2010, 04:33:36 pm
In like 2 days, another part of the Sonic 4 site unlocks, and it's under the characters section.

I actually really hope at least Tails is playable. It would be weird to have a "Sonic 4" without him trailing behind you.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 07, 2010, 04:51:17 pm
Well, there will be another "featured" character.

. . . and nothing is barring the reemergence of Bark the freaking Polar Bear yet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 07, 2010, 07:37:52 pm
It is Robotnik, obviously. He was even in the trailer.

I would not really get any hopes up for this being a real Sonic 4. Just think of it as Sonic Rush 3 or something.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 07, 2010, 10:50:06 pm
I'm really looking forward to it either way.
A return to the Mobius-style world is promising enough for me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 07, 2010, 11:08:19 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
I hope so, too.

I don't feel like clogging my Xbox 360 hard drive with episodic content.

I already felt like I wasted money on Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition last summer.
BUT BUT BUT! Monkey Island!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 08, 2010, 12:03:36 am
Like Kogen said, it is obviously Robotn- err sorry, EGGMAN.

They will save Tails, Knuckles and maybe some others as playable characters in other episode releases. I do not know why people do not just assume this more often, it is obvious!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 08, 2010, 12:15:52 am
Yeah, that is obvious too. This is why they kept the characters out of the hype thing they did earlier. If people read the story, it states that Sonic is only on a vacation, so that is why he is alone (they needed something for all those review sites who hate everything to jerk off to).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 08, 2010, 01:58:02 am
I'm more optimistic about this game than I was Sonic Wold Adventure (Sonic Unleashed outside of Japan.)

I think Sonic 4 could have the right balance of modern game graphics and awesome classic Sonic game play without gimmics like grinding, ring dashing, and homing attacks.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 08, 2010, 08:35:01 am
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
I'm more optimistic about this game than I was Sonic Wold Adventure (Sonic Unleashed outside of Japan.)

I think Sonic 4 could have the right balance of modern game graphics and awesome classic Sonic game play without gimmics like grinding, ring dashing, and homing attacks.
Uh-oh.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 08, 2010, 08:51:24 am
Well, outside of the possible pits with a string of enemies (which I suspect will happen, but not too much) the homing attack will be sort of an optional "let's make it easy for the kiddies" thing.

Hey, I'm posting on the "bits"!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 08, 2010, 10:16:51 am
I think its a bit of disappointment. I mean, its like SEGA can't go all the way with Sonic 4. I'm not saying it looks bad or anything, but Genesis Sonic fans have waited for years and years for Sonic 4 and they add Sonic Adventure > stuff?

They should have just went back and used a 16-bit engine. Lets be honest, it worked for Mega Man 9. Or is that too old school? I would have killed for some HD 2-D animation like Street Fighter II HD Remix.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 08, 2010, 10:55:23 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Well, outside of the possible pits with a string of enemies (which I suspect will happen, but not too much) the homing attack will be sort of an optional "let's make it easy for the kiddies" thing.

Hey, I'm posting on the "bits"!

Welcome to the 'bits!

@george,

to be fair New super Mario Bros wii has kept mario sunshine/mario galaxy's wall jump move and it fits in pretty well.

This game looks a lot like that game; I suspect Sega are trying to capitalize on the crowd that were interested in that game (me).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 08, 2010, 12:26:01 pm
People are silly, this isn't going to be Sonic Rush 3!

It's just going to be Sonic Adventure 2D instead.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on February 08, 2010, 12:29:45 pm
Why would they put the classic Sonic design when like it hasn't been used since 1994.

It would be a little too weird and sorta inconsistent with the current Sonic models.

And because I for all effects and purporses I prefer the current Master Race design to the old chubby one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 08, 2010, 12:45:12 pm
If I remember correctly, the bit that is getting unlocked is a badnik section. Hoping we will at least get a new set of badniks along with the old, or might have just called this game Sonic the Hedgehog Remake.

But probably not, oh well!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 08, 2010, 01:02:48 pm
Sonic Pocket Adventure > This
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 08, 2010, 03:25:39 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Sonic Pocket Adventure > This
That's cause SPA is one of the best Sonic games of all time. No joke here.

And to those saying MM9 is 8-bit and stuff.. 8-bit looks like SHIT on my 32" screen. It's just too much of the same colorz.

And though I think 16 bit would look nice (MegaDrive Collection shows that it is nice), I prefer how it is. Just look at the detail in the backgrounds, it's beautiful.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 08, 2010, 05:39:50 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Sonic Pocket Adventure > This

You're always entitled to your opinion but don't you think you're jumping the gun here just a tad? We've only seen less than 3 seconds of "game play."
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 08, 2010, 05:45:22 pm
We have also been told that 'the mysterious island are falling done'.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 09, 2010, 07:46:00 am
Now seriously, can we at least wait for Aki to analyze the gameplay trailer before we make any judgments of our own? I thought it looked solid enough, running animation excluded of course.

Thus far, the music sample is great, they've brought back the checkers, they've knocked it down to one character, they brought back the bonus levels and the graphics looked amazing to me.

I have nothing to complain about, except I think Iizuka is in charge of this, but I may be wrong. In either event, he was also a big part of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Nights into Dreams, and he directed the Sonic Adventure games, so he's had some hits with his misses. And he's kind of due for a hit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 09, 2010, 07:58:28 am
Well, if I want to analyze the trailer, you see in that short segment of gameplay Sonic starts off as a ball but as soon as he hits the corkscrew he changes into a running animation. In Sonic the Hedgehog 2 he would remain as a ball going into that corkscrew...

EVERYONE START TO PANIC!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 09, 2010, 08:05:50 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Well, if I want to analyze the trailer, you see in that short segment of gameplay Sonic starts off as a ball but as soon as he hits the corkscrew he changes into a running animation. In Sonic the Hedgehog 2 he would remain as a ball going into that corkscrew...

EVERYONE START TO PANIC!
(http://http://i47.tinypic.com/14c45fb.gif)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 09, 2010, 10:26:32 am
A countdown ended on the site and nothing happened.

COOL
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 09, 2010, 10:56:16 am
Quote from: "Waffle"
A countdown ended on the site and nothing happened.

COOL

LOL

guess they haven't updated it yet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on February 09, 2010, 11:05:26 am
...I hope this good, because Im getting worried about sonic. :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 09, 2010, 11:24:39 am
I honestly don't see why everyone is worried about this. Why all of the pessimism. Thus far everything has been great. I even like the logo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 09, 2010, 11:31:18 am
Quote from: "jonboy101"
I honestly don't see why everyone is worried about this. Why all of the pessimism. Thus far everything has been great. I even like the logo.

Everything except the homing attack.

Knowing how Sonic Team love to handle that, especially Iizuka, it could be potentially the sole reason the game's quality levels and design of the levels themselves are brought down by a rather large amount.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on February 09, 2010, 12:43:44 pm
I want it to come out on a disc please.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 09, 2010, 01:07:00 pm
Quote from: "Snowcat"
I want it to come out on a disc please.

yeah me too, with a nice case and manual.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 09, 2010, 01:53:08 pm
Better yet, in a Genesis/Mega Drive case and a "cartridge" that opens to reveal a USB stick or disc.

And before you post this:
(http://http://wa4.images.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/johndmoney/mega_man_9_press_kits_front.jpg)
I realize that it has already been done, but I'd love to see it done for Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on February 09, 2010, 02:21:58 pm
I wouldn't mind just seeing it as a disc to be honest :p
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 09, 2010, 02:48:03 pm
Yeah, or that.

Why not repackage it with Sonic 1-3 & Knuckles (with lock-on functional)?
I mean, those games are almost like tissue nowadays, so it wouldn't hurt anything to tack them on.

I bought the Saw 6 DVD and they included Saw 1 as a bonus disc, that movie is all like tissue.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on February 09, 2010, 02:50:24 pm
Hmm, maybe... but I think it would be nice just to have a nice case with an art book :p
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 09, 2010, 02:55:06 pm
Speaking of art book, Sonic is waaaay past [strike]cool[/strike] due for one. I'm talking coffee table sized.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 09, 2010, 03:35:32 pm
I hope everyone knows that the game will most likely be published on disc after all the episodes come out. Lets be totally honest with each other, SEGA is not afraid of repackaging Sonic games to sell. Especially since XBLA/PSN/Wiiware sales only make up a small portion of sales compared to retail.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on February 09, 2010, 03:38:03 pm
I hope your right, I don't much feel like splashing out on each chapter.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 09, 2010, 04:17:57 pm
They will set it up so we buy the game twice, obviously.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 09, 2010, 11:42:48 pm
Quote from: "George"
I hope everyone knows that the game will most likely be published on disc after all the episodes come out. Lets be totally honest with each other, SEGA is not afraid of repackaging Sonic games to sell. Especially since XBLA/PSN/Wiiware sales only make up a small portion of sales compared to retail.

If this turns out to be as good as I think it will be, you can count me in for double-dipping in sales.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 10, 2010, 03:45:50 am
I am prepared to double dip, I am normally not bothered by physical cases ( I bought Warhawk and Burnout Paradise on PSN) but this game seems like such a monumental release it would be insulting not to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 10, 2010, 08:02:34 am
We are so over-hyping this that even if it's good, we'll still complain.

. . . well nothing new here..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 10, 2010, 08:07:45 am
I don't think anyone is overhyping this one, I think there is little to no chance of this being realistically any better than Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles.

Does have a chance to beat Sonic CD though!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 10, 2010, 09:22:22 am
The problem is that it's trying to be Sonic 1 HD, and not Sonic 4. Sonic only, the rotating special stage, the re-used badniks. It doesn't feel like it's continuing off of Sonic 4.

I bet they won't even use the elemental shields.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 10, 2010, 10:18:55 am
I think we would all prefer that then Sonic Team trying out new ideas that they think are good.

Also we've already got 2 things from Sonic the Hedgehog 3! So it's not just Sonic 1 HD at least.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 10, 2010, 10:21:13 am
Last I checked Sonic 1 never had shitty graphics, ugly art, and a homing attack.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 10, 2010, 10:51:21 am
Homing attack? Where?

And what's wrong with the graphics?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 10, 2010, 11:03:23 am
I think the graphics are nice.. Though we have only seen 2.213 secs of gameplay yet.

And what are you talking about Aki? Sonic CD is one of the best Sonic games of all time!


EDIT:
btw, Sega Monkey stop wanting Sonic 3 HD ;P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 10, 2010, 11:06:44 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Homing attack? Where?

SEGA's press release for the game confirmed there would be a homing attack.

Quote from: "crackdude"
And what are you talking about Aki? Sonic CD is one of the best Sonic games of all time!

Wacky Workbench says no!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 10, 2010, 12:33:44 pm
Even though I had a sega cd I only had sonic cd on the pc.
Does the sega cd version load all the time like the windows 95 version?
If not it's probably the best 2d sonic game after Sonic 2
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 10, 2010, 01:05:39 pm
How bad could the homing attack be? I personally enjoyed it in the 3D games, and I felt it gave it more flow.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 10, 2010, 01:18:32 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Even though I had a sega cd I only had sonic cd on the pc.
Does the sega cd version load all the time like the windows 95 version?
If not it's probably the best 2d sonic game after Sonic 2

I played it in the GameCube Sonic Gems Collection.
Didn't really notice any load times.
I'd put it right after Sonic 2 as well.  I really liked the concept of having a race for a boss fight in a Sonic game (Metal Sonic)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 10, 2010, 01:34:33 pm
The Homing Attack would be pretty cool though:

[youtube:8keogv1o]kTYLa6V03uA[/youtube:8keogv1o]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 10, 2010, 02:46:44 pm
Quote from: "jonboy101"
How bad could the homing attack be? I personally enjoyed it in the 3D games, and I felt it gave it more flow.

Homing attack basically autopilots the game. It's okay in 3D because it's somewhat hard to hit badniks, unless you have badniks 3 times bigger than Sonic, but in 2D there really is no need for it. The homing attack was made to allow users to attack with Sonic in 3D, it is not a technique that was developed for 2D in mind.

Plus knowing Iizuka the homing attack sections will feature bottomless pits.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 10, 2010, 03:32:23 pm
Ughh, I absolutely hate homing directly above a pit and watching as you have no control of the fall.

I liked the fire shield from sonic 3, but I don't think the homing attack would work if it was like that though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 10, 2010, 03:34:41 pm
While it wasn't developed with 2D in mind, I could see it being successfully used in a 2D game, if used sparingly and wisely. I realize that's a big if, however.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 10, 2010, 04:18:21 pm
I think it'll be similar to the fireball attack from Sonic 3. I really used to enjoy that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 10, 2010, 04:19:52 pm
I was always a big fan of the Lightning shield.
Those rings didn't stand a chance....moo ha ha
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 10, 2010, 04:45:31 pm
Quote from: "jonboy101"
While it wasn't developed with 2D in mind, I could see it being successfully used in a 2D game, if used sparingly and wisely. I realize that's a big if, however.

It would kind of take away from stringing points on badniks and having to worry about some good old precision platforming, what's the point of aiming your attacks if the computer is going to do it for you just as well? You look at some of the old badniks and how they were design, for example Caterkiller, he was designed so you attack him precisely at a certain point, if the game automatically aims at him for you, takes away a bit from the difficulty.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 10, 2010, 05:13:05 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think it'll be similar to the fireball attack from Sonic 3. I really used to enjoy that.

I see that we differ on this.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on February 10, 2010, 05:39:07 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"

Quote from: "crackdude"
And what are you talking about Aki? Sonic CD is one of the best Sonic games of all time!

Wacky Workbench says no!
That level really brings the game down!
I would peg it below Sonic 3&knuckles, Sonic 2 but above Sonic 1, sonic 3, and sonic and Knuckles.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 10, 2010, 05:55:31 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "jonboy101"
While it wasn't developed with 2D in mind, I could see it being successfully used in a 2D game, if used sparingly and wisely. I realize that's a big if, however.

It would kind of take away from stringing points on badniks and having to worry about some good old precision platforming, what's the point of aiming your attacks if the computer is going to do it for you just as well? You look at some of the old badniks and how they were design, for example Caterkiller, he was designed so you attack him precisely at a certain point, if the game automatically aims at him for you, takes away a bit from the difficulty.

And lets not forget how incredibly infuriating it is when the Homing Attack craps out and sends you off into a bottomless pit instead of into the enemy robots.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 10, 2010, 06:21:53 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think it'll be similar to the fireball attack from Sonic 3. I really used to enjoy that.

I see that we differ on this.
Yes we do.

I'm sure they'll implement it nicely  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: goddamnpbxsystem on February 10, 2010, 07:11:04 pm
I'm hoping this comes to Steam at least... I don't own any of the current consoles, and won't be getting any one of them any time soon.

Besides, I have a USB Saturn pad.  The game shouldn't be to powerful for any PC to handle, but I think it will be interesting to see how things pan out. :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 10, 2010, 10:01:50 pm
Quote from: "goddamnpbxsystem"
I'm hoping this comes to Steam at least... I don't own any of the current consoles, and won't be getting any one of them any time soon.

Besides, I have a USB Saturn pad.  The game shouldn't be to powerful for any PC to handle, but I think it will be interesting to see how things pan out. :D

I say chances of it coming to steam are likely... Would be a total missed oppertunity if they didn't put it on steam.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 11, 2010, 12:56:39 pm
SEGA is trolling the fanbase again, Sonic Retro found this image when snooping around on the Sonic 4 site

(http://http://www.sonicretro.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/promo4.png)

original link
http://sonicthehedgehog4.com/assets/promo4.png (http://sonicthehedgehog4.com/assets/promo4.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 11, 2010, 01:00:29 pm
WTF is an N2?

Gaint Bomb fucking fails. I downloaded their podcast just because it was the most popular one in the Video Game section on iTunes and after listening to it. I want to cry. They hate the game already because its ... get this... too much like Sonic classic.

They say that it is not going to work, that its another shitty Sonic game and we have had 10 years worth of Shitty Sonic game (2000-2010, so it means Sonic Adventure, Unleashed and the GBA games). He said the game needs more substance than just being like the Genesis games. Someone mentioned that New Super Mario Bros was like the retro titles and he said it was 'OK' but its Nintendo and its fun. You collect rings and etc. While Sonic games are boring and all you do is press right for 20 mins to finish them.

Obviously trolling. Sad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 11, 2010, 01:03:38 pm
Quote from: "George"
WTF is an N2?

Nvidia arcade platform
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 11, 2010, 03:03:53 pm
So far they announced it was coming to PC in August, already leaked it was coming to iPhone, and then just leaked it was coming to N2.

Looks like they are just trolling the nerds who are trying to figure it out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 11, 2010, 04:28:07 pm
Quote from: "George"
Obviously trolling. Sad.

Three seconds of gameplay made a 40 page thread in NeoFAG in just a few hours.

"Sonic sucks", but the truth is everyone still and will always care.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 11, 2010, 05:43:13 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "George"
Obviously trolling. Sad.

Three seconds of gameplay made a 40 page thread in NeoFAG in just a few hours.

"Sonic sucks", but the truth is everyone still and will always care.
This.
Everyone always complained cause everyone was waiting for another old-school Sonic game. Now that there is one on the making, the trolls and disguised Nintendo fanatics will start to pop-up and just be sad.

I hope this game succeeds like fuck. It'll show them Nintendo fans right the bastards..  :twisted:


And LOL @ SEGA for trolling everyone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 11, 2010, 05:54:59 pm
I can't wait to buy Sonic 4 on the N2, best platform of choice.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: GG-Gurl on February 11, 2010, 06:18:12 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
I never played the other Sonics. I only buy Hard Copies of games. None of this downloadable junk (SEGA, make Sonic 4 on disc!).

I have Smash Bros, tho, and I know Tails, Knuckles, and Silver are in the first few games. They are all in Green Hill Zone.
Exactly! this way,they're can be a cool Limited edition with a bunch of Retro chic type stuff.
like that Sonic collection on DS Which people outside of Spain & Austrailia won't get...But Hell to it,i'll import.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 11, 2010, 07:42:30 pm
I can't wait to play this game with my Saturn USB pad. It would be awesome if Sega made a wireless Saturn pad just for this game.

Hint! Hint!

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 11, 2010, 07:44:06 pm
Quote from: "east of eastside"
I can't wait to play this game with my Saturn USB pad. It would be awesome if Sega made a wireless Saturn pad just for this game.

Hint! Hint!

 :mrgreen:

You mean a Genesis controller, yeah?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 11, 2010, 08:19:58 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "east of eastside"
I can't wait to play this game with my Saturn USB pad. It would be awesome if Sega made a wireless Saturn pad just for this game.

Hint! Hint!

 :mrgreen:

You mean a Genesis controller, yeah?
They were basically the same thing anyway, Saturn just had a better D-pad and shoulder buttons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 11, 2010, 08:35:06 pm
Masher:

(http://http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/55675masher.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 11, 2010, 08:43:41 pm
What is that, some kind of fish?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 11, 2010, 08:44:48 pm
Looks like a mix of Chopper and Masher to me instead of based on one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 11, 2010, 08:49:30 pm
Not for nothin', but it looks like some kinda mechanical fish to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 12, 2010, 08:02:32 am
Fans moaning about it being a carbon copy of Sonic 2's fish need to have their eyes checked. It's a new fish. Yeah, it's a cross between Bata-Bata and Gabuccho, but it's new nonetheless.  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 12, 2010, 10:57:29 am
What do they expect?

It is a robot fish.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 12, 2010, 11:33:24 am
They want a robot fish that is similar to the other robot fish but is, at the same time, very different from the robot fish. A green robot salmon would make them happy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 12, 2010, 05:01:16 pm
I love these fishes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 12, 2010, 05:55:53 pm
(http://http://img129.yfrog.com/img129/4906/5v5s.jpg)

Speed boosters in the first stage of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, game pretty much confirmed to be Sonic Adventure 2D

The dream is over :cry:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 12, 2010, 05:59:03 pm
Those are the same speed boosters as in Sonic Advance. They are pretty nice, blasting you into high-speeds at a blink.

I've just been replaying Sonic Advance 2. I didn't remember it being this GOOD.
If Sonic 4 is somewhere close of being as awesome, it's great.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 12, 2010, 06:04:21 pm
Those were in Chemical Plant Zone, so I don't see a problem.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 12, 2010, 06:07:28 pm
They were fine in just Chemical Plant Zone, but knowing Iizuka they will be in every level.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 12, 2010, 06:27:24 pm
I think SEGA dropped the ball with fans. The game is more 'New Super Mario Bros' than it is Mega Man 9/10. I think most fans expected the revival to be like Mega Man 9?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 12, 2010, 06:38:15 pm
Yeah, guess Sonic Team cannot realize there is more than just one Sonic fanbase, oh well. I still think this will be good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 12, 2010, 09:32:34 pm
Why not add Death Eggs to every level too? I mean, a random part of a machine level looks great in grass. May as well fill the sky with metal to suit the environment.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 13, 2010, 06:12:02 pm
Quote from: "George"
I think SEGA dropped the ball with fans. The game is more 'New Super Mario Bros' than it is Mega Man 9/10. I think most fans expected the revival to be like Mega Man 9?
I hate this sort of comments, with no offense George.

The problem is that you are comparing with Mario and MegaMan.
I say fuck Mario and MegaMan!

Sonic 4 needs it's own style.
Personally I think the New Mario Bros SUCKS. It plays NOTHING like the old one.
And MegaMan is just more of the same.

So if Sonic 4 has great gameplay alongside the awesome graphics it's showing, that's great.

Fuck Mario. I hate the douche.

EDIT:
And I don't understand how the "ball" will be "dropped" if the game is good.

Don't you think that it's a little soon to think of balls?  8-) ;P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 13, 2010, 07:29:24 pm
Mario does not play differently. Megaman being the same was the entire point.

ur dum
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 13, 2010, 09:51:29 pm
Alright, here's the deal: If you didn't grow up on the original Sonic games, then don't do this:
[youtube:1483krso]pwxp8-b4ARg[/youtube:1483krso]

 :afroman:  I realize that the video above is a parody, but it is pretty much what is actually happening.

I can only hear Sonic 4 complaints from those who were of cognitive skills to actually play the first game when it released. No more thirteen year old kids writing long essays and rambling for 10+ minutes about how Sonic 4 doesn't look like the original games. They can freely debate how Bentley Jones keeps his chest so smooth, but keep out of the Sonic 4 complaining.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 14, 2010, 04:48:13 pm
New Sonic 4 music

[youtube:2v6sig9f]kPpkxjV-JIs[/youtube:2v6sig9f]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 14, 2010, 05:35:19 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
New Sonic 4 music

[youtube:3uuausp1]kPpkxjV-JIs[/youtube:3uuausp1]

Never gets old. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 14, 2010, 06:47:00 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Mario does not play differently. Megaman being the same was the entire point.

ur dum
Yes it does. The new one is much more slippery.

Anyway, what I mean is that Sonic 4 is what it is. It does not have to do anything like Mario and MegaMan.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 03:33:41 pm
Leaked video:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976 (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 16, 2010, 03:34:04 pm
Sonic 4 sprung a leak:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976 (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976)

(http://http://www.1up.com/media/03/7/8/9/lg/267.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 16, 2010, 04:06:30 pm
fukk'n awesome, i'm feel'n this.  :shock:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 04:23:41 pm
From the leaked footage it looks like they'll be only four stages but each having four acts. Not a bad tradeoff but considering the report I thought we would see more, oh well 16 stages isn't so bad for DLC.

EDIT: Oh wait, just been told it's a boss stage, well it better be like Sonic CD dammit!

There are boosters though in the first stage though! Oh no!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on February 16, 2010, 04:36:43 pm
1:17: If it was in the Classic Sonic, he would've slided down, but here... he is just standing still.  :|
I hope the game handles like the classics, though I doubt.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 04:44:05 pm
Well it could be as the video indicated, an alpha build. If that's the case it still means it's really far off, beta comes next.

Of course knowing Sonic Team, this code passed with flying colours, to the next DLC!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 04:53:12 pm
This doesn't mean that only 4 Zones will be included. Game is still 4-5 months away.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 04:59:52 pm
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games ... 0058410a07 (http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/offers/0bbf0002-0000-4000-8000-000058410a07)

Dimps is the developer? Eh, now I fear that we will see speed boosters all over the place.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 16, 2010, 05:32:55 pm
As I said on the main page news posting:

It’s hilarious that fans will complain about Dimps, yet Sonic Team has brought us Heroes, Shadow and ‘06. Of course, it could very well be a collaboration of Dimps and Sonic Team members that brought us the HD Unleashed, and even then consider how few (if any) Sonic Team memebers remain from the glory days. With Takashi Iizuka the rumored director, there’s no telling what sort of team is behind Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 16, 2010, 06:08:28 pm
I think it is obvious that DIMPS is doing it. Just look how shitty and dull the art is. It seems exactly like their DS games. None of these people understand what 'detail' means and instead go for internet flash quality graphics of simple patterns and blobs of colours.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 06:15:43 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
I think it is obvious that DIMPS is doing it. Just look how shitty and dull the art is. It seems exactly like their DS games. None of these people understand what 'detail' means and instead go for internet flash quality graphics of simple patterns and blobs of colours.

No, the art is perfect for that level. I never saw a flash game with those graphics.

Of course it's simple patterns, it's a throwback.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 16, 2010, 06:19:01 pm
I love the music! I love how they're using the old Genesis drum samples!

But the physics look really wonky. Why is the jump so floaty? And why does he stop on the hill??
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 06:28:51 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I love the music! I love how they're using the old Genesis drum samples!

But the physics look really wonky. Why is the jump so floaty? And why does he stop on the hill??

It's still in Alpha stage.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 16, 2010, 06:29:13 pm
Also, why does Sonic spontaneously go into a spindash at one point? Does this mean they're making the spindash a single button press like in Sonic Adventure?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 06:34:59 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Also, why does Sonic spontaneously go into a spindash at one point? Does this mean they're making the spindash a single button press like in Sonic Adventure?

That or he's mashing buttons like crazy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 16, 2010, 06:38:04 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I love the music! I love how they're using the old Genesis drum samples!

But the physics look really wonky. Why is the jump so floaty? And why does he stop on the hill??

It's an alpha version, it's normal to happen these things..
But I think the jump is good..

There are some people complaining of some of the animations and physics.
Am I the only one thinking it looks really great?

Also, this vid got like a 9.4 rating on GameTrailers. That's the best rating for a Sonic game like ever.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 06:39:48 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
It’s hilarious that fans will complain about Dimps, yet Sonic Team has brought us Heroes, Shadow and ‘06. Of course, it could very well be a collaboration of Dimps and Sonic Team members that brought us the HD Unleashed, and even then consider how few (if any) Sonic Team memebers remain from the glory days. With Takashi Iizuka the rumored director, there’s no telling what sort of team is behind Sonic 4.

The HD Sonic Unleashed was fully developed by Sonic Team. The Wii/PS2 version was the only ones Dimps developed.

That being said, Dimps introduced the worst gimmick in the series with the addition of the BOOST, that is reason enough to question them. With all that being said the level design looks nice so far, but there really is no need for speed boosters.

Also Starfish badniks return.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 16, 2010, 06:42:08 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
It’s hilarious that fans will complain about Dimps, yet Sonic Team has brought us Heroes, Shadow and ‘06. Of course, it could very well be a collaboration of Dimps and Sonic Team members that brought us the HD Unleashed, and even then consider how few (if any) Sonic Team memebers remain from the glory days. With Takashi Iizuka the rumored director, there’s no telling what sort of team is behind Sonic 4.

The HD Sonic Unleashed was fully developed by Sonic Team. The Wii/PS2 version was the only ones Dimps developed.

That being said, Dimps introduced the worst gimmick in the series with the addition of the BOOST, that is reason enough to question them. With all that being said the level design looks nice so far, but there really is no need for speed boosters.

Also Starfish badniks return.

Starfish badniks. Oh no I really hated those things....such...deep....hatred.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 16, 2010, 06:57:07 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
That being said, Dimps introduced the worst gimmick in the series with the addition of the BOOST, that is reason enough to question them. With all that being said the level design looks nice so far, but there really is no need for speed boosters.
I fully agree on this. This leaked video shows some handsome gameplay without the use of speed boosts. Hope those don't ruin the whole thing.
They were nicely implemented in Sonic Advance though.

(offtopic: tomorrow will be a great day will it not aki?)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 16, 2010, 06:59:22 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I love the music! I love how they're using the old Genesis drum samples!

But the physics look really wonky. Why is the jump so floaty? And why does he stop on the hill??
There was music?

I had to keep the volume down since I did not want anyone to think I was watching Japanese lesbian porn. Squeel!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 16, 2010, 07:02:17 pm
Quote from: "FireKingX"
Quote from: "Waffle"
I think it is obvious that DIMPS is doing it. Just look how shitty and dull the art is. It seems exactly like their DS games. None of these people understand what 'detail' means and instead go for internet flash quality graphics of simple patterns and blobs of colours.

No, the art is perfect for that level. I never saw a flash game with those graphics.

Of course it's simple patterns, it's a throwback.
A throwback?

When I got Sonic 1 on Genesis, it had the best graphics I had seen in a video game. I expected the same effort here.

And the only series it looks similar to is the Advance/Rush stuff.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 16, 2010, 07:19:25 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
When I got Sonic 1 on Genesis, it had the best graphics I had seen in a video game. I expected the same effort here.
You can't be serious... The best graphics ever?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 07:20:48 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I love the music! I love how they're using the old Genesis drum samples!

From what I heard it wasn't nothing special, but that could be just down to the quality of sound. I do like how he has his infinity run again though.

Quote from: "crackdude"
(offtopic: tomorrow will be a great day will it not aki?)

What happens on Thursday?!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 16, 2010, 07:28:57 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "crackdude"
(offtopic: tomorrow will be a great day will it not aki?)

What happens on Thursday?!
Ok, the day after I go to bed and wake up xD Wednesday.
Think Dragon Stadium.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 16, 2010, 08:09:59 pm
It is honestly looking better than I expected, but not by much. The physics are way off (of course they can improve this!) and the level art is absolutely terrible. What I can hear from the music sounds alright, I guess.

The menus looks stunning though!  :shock:

I think everything seems fine otherwise, except the inclusion of the homing attack. Either that or how DIMPS is developing it are the worst parts for me so far.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: NiGHTS on February 16, 2010, 08:57:24 pm
Hi  :mrgreen:  my firt post

Leaked video

HQ: http://rapidshare.com/files/351605055/S ... ality_.mp4 (http://rapidshare.com/files/351605055/Sonic_4_leaked_Build__MP4_-_High_Quality_.mp4)
HQ: http://rapidshare.com/files/351601844/S ... ality_.flv (http://rapidshare.com/files/351601844/Sonic_4_leaked_Build__FLV_-_High_Quality_.flv)
MD: http://rapidshare.com/files/351597971/S ... ality_.flv (http://rapidshare.com/files/351597971/Sonic_4_leaked_Build__FLV_-_Medium_Quality_.flv)
LOW: http://rapidshare.com/files/351595585/S ... ality_.flv (http://rapidshare.com/files/351595585/Sonic_4_leaked_Build__FLV_-_Low_Quality_.flv)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 16, 2010, 09:23:12 pm
Welcome NiGHTS! Was wondering when you would show up.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 16, 2010, 11:26:24 pm
I liked what I saw in that new video.
Even if Dimps is involved, I'm not worried at all. Street Fighter IV was pretty solid.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Psycho Echidna on February 17, 2010, 03:10:03 am
Sf4 was not developed by Dimps. It was ported.

Sonic 4 is developed by DIMPS which is the scary part. They can port it ( I will not be worried by that) but making the art/music/level design is very scary from such a developer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 17, 2010, 07:17:07 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Waffle"
When I got Sonic 1 on Genesis, it had the best graphics I had seen in a video game. I expected the same effort here.
You can't be serious... The best graphics ever?
Yeah, I can be serious. SEGA should be doing the best 2D games possible with their main franchise, as they used to do.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 17, 2010, 07:35:42 am
What's the big fucking problem with Dimps?

Metacritic scores:
Sonic Advance - 87
Sonic Advance 2 - 83
Sonic Advance 3 - 79
Sonic Rush - 82
Sonic Rush Adventure - 78
Sonic Unleashed WiiS2 - 66 (6 more than the PS360 version, plus factor in the werehog hate and the hating for the sake of hating)

We have yet to even know WHO is developing the game. Could be Dimps with Iizuka directing or acting as lead Game Designer, could be Dimps in collaboration with key Sonic Team members from the HD Unleashed, could be Yu Suzuki with a fake mustache.

Also, regarding the "speed boost, speed gimmick, speed gimmick, speed boost", consider this paragraph posted by Sega regarding Needlemouse:

Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.

Also, I found this on the nets:
(http://http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1756/splashhillact1partialma.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 17, 2010, 07:53:58 am
SEGA isn't trying to sell a console anymore nor is this meant to be the next main Sonic, not defending the faults or anything, just sayin'

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
What's the big fucking problem with Dimps?

They got worse as they went along, specifically their games became less platform based and more about running and avoiding traps than just a good mix of the three, especially with how insane the speeds of some of the games go out (See in particular, Sonic Advance 2)

Of course they did also make Sonic Pocket Adventure, but the problem arises that either they, or Sonic Team directing them, became extremely focused on speed.

Although what I saw so far was good, with about three or so multiple roots, they've already started putting speed boosters in the first level!

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Also, regarding the "speed boost, speed gimmick, speed gimmick, speed boost", consider this paragraph posted by Sega regarding Needlemouse:

SEGA also said they would fix all the glitches in Silver the Hedgehog and that Sonic would be returning to his roots of saving orphaned princesses and fighting Satan.

And Lost Labyrinth has giant death balls of doom it seems.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 17, 2010, 08:40:56 am
lol Dimps. It was expected. Clearly there's not enough people at Sega to make a 2D Sonic. I'm gonna buy Black Knight now so I keep supporting this crap.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 17, 2010, 09:27:45 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.
They said this would be a sequel to Sonic 3/K, which it obviously is not. It is just using the name to get hype.

They then implied excessively that this would be in the Genesis style, it is not.

They also said they would be making it for the 'retro fans', but now it is clearly presented and stated to be for 'old and new fans'.

Next they said the were going to split off the new Sonic from the old Sonic instead of trying to please everyone, which is now apparently not true.

So overall they are liars. Just look at the boost pads.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 17, 2010, 09:40:00 am
Quote from: "Waffle"
They said this would be a sequel to Sonic 3/K, which it obviously is not. It is just using the name to get hype.

Direct quote from Ken Balough of Sega:
While the game is a brand-new adventure, it will definitely pick up after Sonic & Knuckles. However, what you are looking at is the beginning of a new story arc.

Intro from the website:

But this humiliating defeat only serves to further Eggman's rage, and he has determined once and for all to rid himself of Sonic. Eggman revisits - and improves - the very best of his creations to defeat our spiked hero. And so a new Adventure begins...

It obviously is a direct sequel. Oh, and the title is Sonic 4.

Quote from: "Waffle"
They then implied excessively that this would be in the Genesis style, it is not.

They hinted that it would have a retro feel, but never implicitly said "it will have 16-bit sprites and will look exactly like a Genesis game". You (and many others) read it the way you wanted to read it and are now hurt that you were wrong. Meanwhile many other fans read Sega's hints differently, with what we now have as the true finished product in mind.

Quote from: "Waffle"
They also said they would be making it for the 'retro fans', but now it is clearly presented and stated to be for 'old and new fans'.

Despite the inclusion of new fans, the game is STILL for retro fans. Even you yourself just admitted it.

Quote from: "Waffle"
Next they said the were going to split off the new Sonic from the old Sonic instead of trying to please everyone, which is now apparently not true.

Show the quote from Sega.

Quote from: "Waffle"
So overall they are liars. Just look at the boost pads.

boost pads do make or break a game. You're overacting. I liked you more when you make smart ass one sentence comments.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 17, 2010, 12:32:46 pm
My take on all this is that as long as this game sells well, and I think it will, good things will come from this.

If this game isn't 100% what you want maybe Sonic "5" or whatever next year will be another step closer to what you want.  The point is, the success of Sonic 4 will send the message loud and clear to Sega that the old-school retro audience is alive and profitable and designing games tailored to their tastes is a commercially rewarding direction for the company.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 02:26:45 pm
Quote from: "east of eastside"
My take on all this is that as long as this game sells well, and I think it will, good things will come from this.

If this game isn't 100% what you want maybe Sonic "5" or whatever next year will be another step closer to what you want.  The point is, the success of Sonic 4 will send the message loud and clear to Sega that the old-school retro audience is alive and profitable and designing games tailored to their tastes is a commercially rewarding direction for the company.

I thought that the Genesis games being some of the best selling games on downloadable platforms would have made SEGA think this long ago?

Waffle said it best. They are not going to try to target one fanbase directly, we should have known this all along, and I feel stupid as shit that I ever started to believe them after all that has happened.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 17, 2010, 02:39:24 pm
I think it looks plenty like the old games.
The checkerboard design is back.
The colourful levels, instead of realistic cityscapes.

I don't really see them changing the Sonic design back to the 16 bit one, now that the new design is basically the SEGA brand.

Looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 17, 2010, 02:56:20 pm
Some right drama queens here! Funny that some of the people that spend so much time making fun of Sonic fans are acting just as bad.

Boost pads? homing attack? green eyes? Dimps? ... completely trivial.

Chances are Sonic Team haven't made a real 2D game in years and probably do not have the means anymore. Which Dimps have... There are still plenty of ST members working on this game.

Just because this game isnt going the mega man 9 root of 'old school for the sake of old school' doesn't mean it's doomed to be a bad game. Let me speak freely for a moment with out pandering to the 'if you don't agree with this your not hardcore' mentality but FUCK megaman 9... If I had played Megaman 9 in 1994 I would have said the same thing. What a dodgey peice of shit, it's retro for the sake of it because 'retro is cool' not because it is a good, well made game.

I can just imagine of Sonic 2 came out today, with some of you peoples mentality. 'OMG What is this automatic roll 'spin dash'? whos this tails character? what happened to the original specials stage? Sonics run animation has changed! SONIC AM RUINED!'

Every old Sonic game brought in new mechanics AND new characters... The same can be said for Sonic 4... It isnt a big deal.

What matters is nailing the momentum, level design and animations...
Thats the only problem I've seen in this game so far... Everything else is trivial and there is no reason Dimps can't make just as good if not better Sonic game then Sonic Team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 03:34:04 pm
You are as dumb as the people you are making fun of if you think the boost pads and homing attack are completely trivial. These change the game a lot.

Adding boost pads everywhere can completely ruin good level design. Considering how Sonic Team is, I expect them to be everywhere in every level.

The homing attack has always been forced and worthless in the 2D games. Why even add it in a "Classic" game when they know it does not work? It either means the level design is going to be based around this (most likely a bunch of badniks over a bottomless pit) or just useless altogether. Not to mention that if it is on the same button as jump that means you are going to lose the momentum jump you could do from the Genesis games, you know how if you held the jump button while you hit a badnik or monitor you would keep bouncing up higher? Removing this is not the end of the world, but it helped make exploring in the Genesis games so amazing and it will be majorly missed.

For the graphics... I think it graphically looks on par with early shitty 2D original PlayStation games. All of the platforms it is coming to can at least do Dreamcast-level stuff, so it should be doing that at the very least. This is SEGA's star franchise and probably one of their attempts to make him as important as Mario and Halo, when this is the case "Good enough" should not be in their vocabulary.

Saying Sonic Team needs help to develop a 2D downloadable game is complete nonsense... They make MMOs for handhelds FFS... If three guys can make flash games of the same quality in a garage in a month, I do not see why Sonic Team cannot do better.

I am not even going to join in on the Mega Man 9 thing, that is a shit typhoon of responses waiting to happen.

All this said, I think the game will still be good, and I am looking forward to it. It just should not have been called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 17, 2010, 03:45:17 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
The homing attack has always been forced and worthless in the 2D games. Why even add it in a "Classic" game when they know it does not work? It either means the level design is going to be based around this (most likely a bunch of badniks over a bottomless pit) or just useless altogether. Not to mention that if it is on the same button as jump that means you are going to lose the momentum jump you could do from the Genesis games, you know how if you held the jump button while you hit a badnik or monitor you would keep bouncing up higher? Removing this is not the end of the world, but it helped make exploring in the Genesis games so amazing and it will be majorly missed.

Isn't that one of the paramount elements of the old 2D Sonic games?
One button that does everything?
Simplicity of control and all that jazz
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 03:50:23 pm
Well I was assuming they would do that, but from the gameplay trailer with how fast the player did the spindash I assume they will have that mapped on a separate button.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 17, 2010, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
You are as dumb as the people you are making fun of if you think the boost pads and homing attack are completely trivial. These change the game a lot.

Adding boost pads everywhere can completely ruin good level design. Considering how Sonic Team is, I expect them to be everywhere in every level.
Considering we have seen about 15 seconds of gameplay so far and one boost pad... it's not only trivial it's drama.


Quote
The homing attack has always been forced and worthless in the 2D games. Why even add it in a "Classic" game when they know it does not work? It either means the level design is going to be based around this (most likely a bunch of badniks over a bottomless pit) or just useless altogether. Not to mention that if it is on the same button as jump that means you are going to lose the momentum jump you could do from the Genesis games, you know how if you held the jump button while you hit a badnik or monitor you would keep bouncing up higher? Removing this is not the end of the world, but it helped make exploring in the Genesis games so amazing and it will be majorly missed.
trivial... as I said, every Sonic game changed from the last even the genesis ones. Sonic 1 and Sonic 3 were worlds apart.

Not to mention homing attack looks completely optional to me, so a nonissue.

Quote
For the graphics... I think it graphically looks on par with early shitty 2D original PlayStation games. All of the platforms it is coming to can at least do Dreamcast-level stuff, so it should be doing that at the very least. This is SEGA's star franchise and probably one of their attempts to make him as important as Mario and Halo, when this is the case "Good enough" should not be in their vocabulary.
Find me a PS one game that looks as good... Frankly before it was shown people were expecting even more 'shitty' even more early genesis sprites...

While it isnt perfect, it could have been far worse.

Quote
Saying Sonic Team needs help to develop a 2D downloadable game is complete nonsense... They make MMOs for handhelds FFS... If three guys can make flash games of the same quality in a garage in a month, I do not see why Sonic Team cannot do better.
These MMOs are 3D... Ok so why do you think they got Dimps to help? To spite you? or just for the fun of it?... get a grip.


Quote
I am not even going to join in on the Mega Man 9 thing, that is a shit typhoon of responses waiting to happen.
Cannot wait.

Quote
All this said, I think the game will still be good, and I am looking forward to it. It just should not have been called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
=|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 04:58:35 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Considering we have seen about 15 seconds of gameplay so far and one boost pad... it's not only trivial it's drama.

We are still annoyed that they are going to be in all of the levels. Why is a mechanical boost pad even in a forest? Why even have them when we have the spindash? Again, it is just not needed and makes us all less hopeful for the level design.

Quote from: "Sharky"
trivial... as I said, every Sonic game changed from the last even the genesis ones. Sonic 1 and Sonic 3 were worlds apart.

Did you even read my post? It is either going to be forced and break the level design or just be worthless, in both cases it would have been better without it. I would be fine with this game adding new ideas, but this is NOT a new idea, it is a horrible, failed attempt that never worked in 20+ games. What is so hard to understand?

Quote from: "Sharky"
Find me a PS one game that looks as good... Frankly before it was shown people were expecting even more 'shitty' even more early genesis sprites...

While it isnt perfect, it could have been far worse.

So just because it did not look absolutely dreadful we should be happy? Sorry, not good enough.

Quote from: "Sharky"
These MMOs are 3D... Ok so why do you think they got Dimps to help? To spite you? or just for the fun of it?... get a grip.

It does not matter that they are 3D, they are Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games for handhelds! Are you seriously saying that the people who can manage that need help making basic 2D platformers?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 17, 2010, 05:07:08 pm
calm yourself.

When you keep saying 'all of us' feel this way... Clearly you are wrong. Right now from what I have seen. The only thing that I didn't like so far was the momentum/animation.

-The level designs look good
-The art directon is classic
-I have no real problems with the graphics
-I never had a problem with Sonics newer design bar Sonic 06
-I'm happy to accept that Sonic games have always changed things up from one to the next, boost pads don't bother me... infact the only thing I have disliked in recent years is the grind rails.
- I actually do not dislike the homing attacks at all, were pretty fun in Sonic Adventure 2 actually.

Fix up the stiff/slow looking animation, sort out that physics and it looks like a great addition to the Sonic series.

As for your MMO on handheld means they should be able to do 2D Platformer, thats like saying a speed pitcher should be able to juggle... Sorry but they are two different beasts entirely.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 05:34:41 pm
The boost pads are the same thing as the grind rails practically...

You keep mentioning Sonic Adventure 2 when I complain about the homing attack, again do you even read my posts? I was talking about the 2D games, in all of the 2D releases they hurt or offered nothing with the gameplay. This is not trivial or complaining just to complain, it is a problem.

As for your comment on MMOs on handhelds I think you missed my point... Just because they are different genres does not mean anything, Sonic Team is fully capable of making a 2D platformer themselves. They just went with DIMPS because of reviews, and you know it.

Just because you think it looks amazing or that the art is "Classic" does not mean it is true. So far I only see opinions from you when I keep pointing out what are poor choices and why. When I give an opinion on it, I say so, like the "Shitty graphics" comment I had.

Again, I think it will turn out good, but you do not have to act like such a fanboy. I am happy you love everything about it outside of the momentum.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 17, 2010, 06:04:18 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Again, I think it will turn out good, but you do not have to act like such a fanboy. I am happy you love everything about it outside of the momentum.
He is being as much of a fanboy as you are. Why must your opinion be more valuable?

I think everyone is acting like drama queens over 15 seconds of alpha stage gameplay of the first level.

I don't get anyone's gripe with boost pads.
I don't like rails cause they're easy to miss or jump off. But boost pads? Sonic Advance freaking NAILED boost pads.
My only concern about the boost pads is that the gameplay seems fluid enough without them, so I hope they'll be put in the right places. But that's something to look into after the game is out.

Homing attack is a non-issue since it's totally optional.

I like the art. It looks pretty :3

The momentum, after seeing the vid again, indeed seems to kinda need be worked on a bit, but nothing serious..

It is turning out to be really cool is seems, and I don't care what they call it as long as it's good.

Lets all just not overthink this..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 17, 2010, 06:14:05 pm
I pointed out that most of my comments are not opinions, but actual facts... For instance, the homing attack was either overused and broken or optional and pointless in all of the 2D games. My opinion was that it is a waste of resources, especially if it is optional.

Saying the game looks good is okay, but when anyone says anything that seems negative they get flamed.  :|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 17, 2010, 07:05:04 pm
I think its just the nature of the game that tempers run a bit high around it. I don't think either Uranus or Sharky should take it personally. Kiss and make up.

I personally thought the whole spinning circle of speed looked stupid in the the first few games, so I'm glad they're doing away with it.

The jumps look kind of silly in this. He's not a parachute.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 17, 2010, 07:22:25 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Boost pads? homing attack? green eyes? Dimps? ... completely trivial.
Boost pads were just a level gimmick in Chemical Plant Zone to make you go fast on the snake-like tubes. Here it is just in the middle of the forest on some grass. How is that creative or new?

Homing attack is worthless in all of the 2D games it is in. You never need to actually use it, the buttons to use it are awkward (holding L then pressing A in the air), and half the time it just gets you hurt. If they do it with one button like Megamix, then enjoy accidentally shooting yourself down holes and into traps all the time.

Green eyes are gay.

DIMPS are good, but not great. They should stick to spinoffs and minor titles, not the biggest franchise title SEGA has right now. Would you let Sumo do it, for comparison?

Quote
Chances are Sonic Team haven't made a real 2D game in years and probably do not have the means anymore. Which Dimps have... There are still plenty of ST members working on this game.
Who really wanted them to do it?

Quote
Just because this game isnt going the mega man 9 root of 'old school for the sake of old school' doesn't mean it's doomed to be a bad game.
Others may be asking for this, but I am not. When I mention it, I mean the graphic style, not just using pixels for no reason. I would expect it to be HD, high quality, 2D, and with a good frame rate/animation-quality. Similar to those posts you made about Sonic running in 2D.

Quote
Let me speak freely for a moment
(http://http://s006.radikal.ru/i215/1002/3a/97f9f9ab2194.gif)

Quote
with out pandering to the 'if you don't agree with this your not hardcore' mentality but FUCK megaman 9... If I had played Megaman 9 in 1994 I would have said the same thing. What a dodgey peice of shit, it's retro for the sake of it because 'retro is cool' not because it is a good, well made game.
Megaman 9 is fine. Just because you are not good at games, it does not mean the games suck (You say the same stuff about Shinobi and Golden Axe). And Megaman 9 was not trying to be some big multi-episodic title.

Quote
I can just imagine of Sonic 2 came out today, with some of you peoples mentality. 'OMG What is this automatic roll 'spin dash'? whos this tails character? what happened to the original specials stage? Sonics run animation has changed! SONIC AM RUINED!'
My boyfriend already covered this. Homing attack is not a new feature. It is a failed feature. The only reason it exists is to provide targeting in a 3D space.

For the special stage comment, that is wrong. People are whining that this game has no new content. I do not want to play Sonic 1's special stage again, I barely even like it.

And explain to me who the new character is in Sonic 4.

Quote
Every old Sonic game brought in new mechanics AND new characters... The same can be said for Sonic 4... It isnt a big deal.
So far these are old mechanics that failed and there are no new characters. Nice statement.

Quote
Thats the only problem I've seen in this game so far... Everything else is trivial and there is no reason Dimps can't make just as good if not better Sonic game then Sonic Team.
So DIMPS is better than a company that cannot make solid games. What an honour.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 18, 2010, 08:09:24 am
I actually find funny that the hardcore Sega/Sonic fans are the only people complaining about this game lol

I still can't seem to understand what's the problem with homing attack, since you only use it if you want to. It's like complaining about speed dash.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 18, 2010, 08:12:21 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I pointed out that most of my comments are not opinions, but actual facts... For instance, the homing attack was either overused and broken or optional and pointless in all of the 2D games. My opinion was that it is a waste of resources, especially if it is optional.

Saying the game looks good is okay, but when anyone says anything that seems negative they get flamed.  :|
Was overused/broken, fact. But nothing tells you it is going to be like this for this game.. Just wait and then make your opinion.
And if it's optional, some people may enjoy it. I don't, but it doesn't bother me..

I ain't flamin'  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 11:40:15 am
Wait I never saw the waste of resources bit before. Really? It's a really minor thing. The problem with the homing attack isn't the waste of resource but what it does to the whole design process of the game and how one goes about it.

The speed boosts are not really needed either, the spin dash was made for this reason exactly so that the player would have access to speed, it is okay as a speed gimmick in one or two levels, but they are just putting it in because the games with it were recieved very well and they probably think it is a good addition, like the homing attack.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 01:07:59 pm
Skimmed over Sanus and Kogens comments, really can't be bothered to reply to them.

I'll just go with kogens theory that I'm really bad at games like golden axe and megaman 9.

And Sanus's that I'm a Sonic fanboy.

Lets run with that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 18, 2010, 01:13:19 pm
New section opened up on the site.

WALLPAPER with the same logo we've been seeing for a month oh and a concept art piece of grass.

WOOHOO  :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 18, 2010, 01:57:01 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
And Sanus's that I'm a Sonic fanboy.

Out of everyone I know, you and Shadi talk about Sonic the Hedgehog 4 the most, even more than Aki.

AKA DONT DENY
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 02:33:38 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
And Sanus's that I'm a Sonic fanboy.

Out of everyone I know, you and Shadi talk about Sonic the Hedgehog 4 the most, even more than Aki.

AKA DONT DENY
Not according to the post count in this thread I don't.

Cearly I'm not as 'passonate' about the series as you either... since, you know. I'm not getting uppity about trivial things.

By some strange backward 'logic' that makes me a fanboys.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 18, 2010, 02:37:19 pm
By that logic, complaining about the werehog is trivial.  :lol:

I only get "Uppity" from stuff you defend, I have constantly said I think the game looks good, not sure what you expect me to say! You also think Sonic Unleashed day stages is how Sonic games should be, so GOOD DAY SIR!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 02:43:53 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
By that logic, complaining about the werehog is trivial.  :lol:

Well you think Sonic Rush is how Sonic games should be, so GOOD DAY SIR!
Werehog changes up the gameplay completely, boosts and homing attack are comparable to the addition of Spin-Dash in Sonic 2 or Element sheilds.

Nothing like werehog.


And as for Sonic Rush, where did I say that? Your argument is getting pretty thin here...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 18, 2010, 03:15:02 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
By that logic, complaining about the werehog is trivial.  :lol:

Well you think Sonic Rush is how Sonic games should be, so GOOD DAY SIR!
Werehog changes up the gameplay completely, boosts and homing attack are comparable to the addition of Spin-Dash in Sonic 2 or Element sheilds.

Nothing like werehog.


And as for Sonic Rush, where did I say that? Your argument is getting pretty thin here...
Well if it was thick, you probably would not read it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 03:43:32 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
By that logic, complaining about the werehog is trivial.  :lol:

Well you think Sonic Rush is how Sonic games should be, so GOOD DAY SIR!
Werehog changes up the gameplay completely, boosts and homing attack are comparable to the addition of Spin-Dash in Sonic 2 or Element sheilds.

Nothing like werehog.


And as for Sonic Rush, where did I say that? Your argument is getting pretty thin here...
Well if it was thick, you probably would not read it.

True story!

Also, lol at the failed stealth edit by sanus.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 18, 2010, 03:45:55 pm
I edited it before you posted, check the forum records.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 18, 2010, 05:50:18 pm
God you guys are funny.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 06:56:39 pm
I'd like to interrupt this argument with HORRIBLE news! :P

Sonic 4 is bad apparently. A community member got a chance to play it, and it plays like Sonic Advance 2, but with really wonky physics.

Also, the jump apparently SUCKS.

Quote
However, the game pretty much have the physics of Sonic Rush. I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate, I can’t stress enough how I hate the jump!  Fucking jump! It’s the worst jump I’ve ever seem in a Sonic game to date. Apparently they tried to mimic the ‘the longer you hold down the jump button, the longer you accent’ mechanic of the classic games, but as a result, they fucked the freaking cake with it. The jump is all over the place: if you rapidly tap the jump button, Sonic almost don’t jump; if you hold a little and release, Sonic starts accending, but hebreaks to the floor as soon as you release the jump button. If you hold the jump button all the way down, Sonic jumps like if he had touched a spring, he jumps so high and almost no gravity, it’s like you are jumping on the freaking moon. And I thought the jump ing the Rush series was bad. This one is even worse. The jump is so bad that I preffer to keep running right to win really.

Spindash has also been severely weakened.

You can read the rest here. It's pretty depressing.

http://http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/sonic-4-playtested-by-community-member-impressions-inside
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 18, 2010, 07:04:56 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I'd like to interrupt this argument with HORRIBLE news! :P

Sonic 4 is bad apparently. A community member got a chance to play it, and it plays like Sonic Advance 2, but with really wonky physics.

Also, the jump apparently SUCKS.

Quote
However, the game pretty much have the physics of Sonic Rush. I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate, I can’t stress enough how I hate the jump!  Fucking jump! It’s the worst jump I’ve ever seem in a Sonic game to date. Apparently they tried to mimic the ‘the longer you hold down the jump button, the longer you accent’ mechanic of the classic games, but as a result, they fucked the freaking cake with it. The jump is all over the place: if you rapidly tap the jump button, Sonic almost don’t jump; if you hold a little and release, Sonic starts accending, but hebreaks to the floor as soon as you release the jump button. If you hold the jump button all the way down, Sonic jumps like if he had touched a spring, he jumps so high and almost no gravity, it’s like you are jumping on the freaking moon. And I thought the jump ing the Rush series was bad. This one is even worse. The jump is so bad that I preffer to keep running right to win really.

Spindash has also been severely weakened.

You can read the rest here. It's pretty depressing.

http://http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/sonic-4-playtested-by-community-member-impressions-inside

Oh god, please say it aint so! It's title is Sonic 4 not Sonic Rush HD. I hope this news isn't real or the original poster hasn't figured out the new jump gimmick. I so don't need new gameplay gimmicks. Just give me a straight up fun sonic game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 07:29:28 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I'd like to interrupt this argument with HORRIBLE news! :P

Sonic 4 is bad apparently. A community member got a chance to play it, and it plays like Sonic Advance 2, but with really wonky physics.

Also, the jump apparently SUCKS.

Quote
However, the game pretty much have the physics of Sonic Rush. I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate, I can’t stress enough how I hate the jump!  Fucking jump! It’s the worst jump I’ve ever seem in a Sonic game to date. Apparently they tried to mimic the ‘the longer you hold down the jump button, the longer you accent’ mechanic of the classic games, but as a result, they fucked the freaking cake with it. The jump is all over the place: if you rapidly tap the jump button, Sonic almost don’t jump; if you hold a little and release, Sonic starts accending, but hebreaks to the floor as soon as you release the jump button. If you hold the jump button all the way down, Sonic jumps like if he had touched a spring, he jumps so high and almost no gravity, it’s like you are jumping on the freaking moon. And I thought the jump ing the Rush series was bad. This one is even worse. The jump is so bad that I preffer to keep running right to win really.

Spindash has also been severely weakened.

You can read the rest here. It's pretty depressing.

http://http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/sonic-4-playtested-by-community-member-impressions-inside


If true, thats fucking terrible news... But with 5 months left to develop I hope they can get it fixed.

But honestly? This came from a Sonic forum and I really don't see why Sega would let some random guy from a Sonic forum play test the game... Seems very dodgey to me...

Edit: Hes from Brazil as well? come on now... Sega went to Brazil to find a play tester that can barely type english?...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 07:38:21 pm
I play tested Sonic 4 the other day.

I'm sorry to say guys, but Sonic Team put in another useless gimmick. In Mad Gear Zone Sonic teams up with Cody and the game changes into a shitty beat em up for the whole stage, ending in with a boss fight against Mr X, the game is ruined.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 07:40:24 pm
Quote
Sega went to Brazil to find a play tester that can barely type english?...

SEGA didn't go anywhere. It was apparently through PartnerNet or whatever. (Same way with the leaked footage. It was in like someone's living room!)

I just checked Sonic Retro, and there was some OTHER guy posting fake information to confuse everybody, so who knows. We'll have to wait til tomorrow to see if this Endri guy is telling the truth. (He says he'll upload video tomorrow.)

But you gotta admit, from the video we've seen, it sounds pretty accurate.

EDIT: Yeah never mind. It wasn't through PartnerNet. It says right at the top of the article that it was on a developer's console. :oops:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 07:48:24 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
But you gotta admit, from the video we've seen, it sounds pretty accurate.

A video that was labeled alpha is an accurate indication of what the product is? He is saying SEGA is not going to do anything at all for the next five months until the game is released in July, say anything about SEGA, but delaying a completed Sonic the Hedgehog game is something they've rarely done.

Until I see proof, I am going to be skeptical, just as I am skeptical of Dimps/Sonic Team whoever can make a good Sonic game, I remain wary of any online fan claiming to have insider info.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 07:53:37 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Quote
Sega went to Brazil to find a play tester that can barely type english?...

SEGA didn't go anywhere. It was apparently through PartnerNet or whatever. (Same way with the leaked footage. It was in like someone's living room!)

I just checked Sonic Retro, and there was some OTHER guy posting fake information to confuse everybody, so who knows. We'll have to wait til tomorrow to see if this Endri guy is telling the truth. (He says he'll upload video tomorrow.)

But you gotta admit, from the video we've seen, it sounds pretty accurate.

EDIT: Yeah never mind. It wasn't through PartnerNet. It says right at the top of the article that it was on a developer's console. :oops:


Dude, you are far to gullible.

If you think this is the final build and Sega are going to sit on their hands for the next 5 months of development time you are mental.

You've spent far to long on those sonic sites... please step away.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on February 18, 2010, 07:57:54 pm
I don't see the need for a whole lot of panic.
It's not really possible to know for sure what the final build's quality will be until it comes out.
If it turns out good, that's awesome.
If it sucks, there's always the old games to play. No need to panic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 08:01:04 pm
I left a comment on their site, it shown up yet so it seems they might have to approve it. I wonder if they will... lets see.

Comment:
Quote
What a load of nonsense...

This guy is talking a load of rubbish and I'm amazed that you guys have been suckered into it. Why would Sega send a copy of a game that is in alpha stages with another 5 months of development to some random sonic fan that can barely type English... Living in Brazil?

Not to mention, do you really believe that this is the final build of the game?... Come on kids. Sega have another 5 or 6 months of development time before the game ships. What do you think there going to do? Sit and twiddle their thumb for 5 months?... Give me a break.

Why are alarm bells not ringing for you people?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 08:02:12 pm
Is it so hard to believe that the final product will have a floaty jump and slow spindash? Even if that preview isn't true, that's what the game looks like currently.

Why would they keep working on the physics AFTER they made the levels? It doesn't make any sense. They have to design the levels around the physics, so you know how Sonic will interact with the environment. Working on the physics after everything else will just screw everything up. It's such a backwards way of development, I don't think even Sonic Team would do that. :lol:

Which leads me to believe that those are indeed the final physics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 18, 2010, 08:08:03 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Is it so hard to believe that the final product will have a floaty jump and slow spindash? Even if that preview isn't true, that's what the game looks like currently.

Why would they keep working on the physics AFTER they made the levels? It doesn't make any sense. They have to design the levels around the physics, so you know how Sonic will interact with the environment. Working on the physics after everything else will just screw everything up. It's such a backwards way of development, I don't think even Sonic Team would do that. :lol:

Which leads me to believe that those are indeed the final physics.

Maybe they are maybe they arent... that isnt whats in question here. The only thing thats in question is the sanity of people that believe this random barely english speaking sonic fan from Brazil has had any input or playtime on this game what so ever.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 08:10:20 pm
Sonic the Hedgehog 2's last alpha has poor detection with angles, springs not working correctly, Sonic falling through floors, a dumb gimmick that had him bouncing off of walls and many other issues.

Basically, a lot of stuff changes between alpha and beta.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 18, 2010, 08:24:00 pm
The more I think about it the more fishy this new 'leaked' info seems. This still gets me a tad shaken up just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 08:28:26 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Sonic the Hedgehog 2's last alpha has poor detection with angles, springs not working correctly, Sonic falling through floors, a dumb gimmick that had him bouncing off of walls and many other issues.

Basically, a lot of stuff changes between alpha and beta.
But the core physics were still there. Those are just little bugs that needed to be ironed out.

The reason I believe this guy is because he seems to be a respected member of the forums he posts at. (I don't post at any of them, so I'm not sure, but he's been a member at Retro for a couple of years and has quite a lot of posts. Usually these fake previews come from new accounts made just to trick people.)

He's still claiming that he has played it. And that he's uploading some kind of proof tomorrow. Just wait and see!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 08:37:16 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
But the core physics were still there. Those are just little bugs that needed to be ironed out.

Not being able to detect angles correctly would also screw the level design of a game up. The spindash was also weaker in the alpha build. As I said, a lot changes were still left to be applied.

Infact there are moments in the alpha build where Sonic can go up hill right.

Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
He's still claiming that he has played it. And that he's uploading some kind of proof tomorrow. Just wait and see!

I didn’t say I wouldn’t believe him if he posted some proof, but I have no reason to believe some random Sonic fan. Even if he is well known at Sonic Retro (We have members like that here too…)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 18, 2010, 08:53:05 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I left a comment on their site, it shown up yet so it seems they might have to approve it. I wonder if they will... lets see.

Comment:
Quote
What a load of nonsense...

This guy is talking a load of rubbish and I'm amazed that you guys have been suckered into it. Why would Sega send a copy of a game that is in alpha stages with another 5 months of development to some random sonic fan that can barely type English... Living in Brazil?

Not to mention, do you really believe that this is the final build of the game?... Come on kids. Sega have another 5 or 6 months of development time before the game ships. What do you think there going to do? Sit and twiddle their thumb for 5 months?... Give me a break.

Why are alarm bells not ringing for you people?

People actually believe SEGA will be twiddling their thumbs for 5 months lol.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 08:54:09 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
but I have no reason to believe some random Sonic fan. Even if he is well known at Sonic Retro (We have members like that here too…)
But would you expect George or Ryan or Sanus or MadeMan to start pretending that they have played Sonic 4? Not as a joke post, but as a serious attempt at trying to trick us to get a reaction?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 18, 2010, 08:55:20 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Quote from: "Aki-at"
but I have no reason to believe some random Sonic fan. Even if he is well known at Sonic Retro (We have members like that here too…)
But would you expect George or Ryan or Sanus or MadeMan to start pretending that they have played Sonic 4? Not as a joke post, but as a serious attempt at trying to trick us to get a reaction?

I played Sonic 4 and can tell you it ain't looking pretty.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 08:56:02 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
But would you expect George or Ryan or Sanus or MadeMan to start pretending that they have played Sonic 4? Not as a joke post, but as a serious attempt at trying to trick us to get a reaction?

I'm not going to name names, but some could!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 18, 2010, 09:12:17 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
But would you expect George or Ryan or Sanus or MadeMan to start pretending that they have played Sonic 4? Not as a joke post, but as a serious attempt at trying to trick us to get a reaction?

I'm not going to name names, but some could!

Nice to know that I've build up enough credibility to royally swindle you guys  :twisted:

Reminds me of when I made a joke about the next Yakuza game being a DS RPG complete with screenshots, back when Sega seemed to think every god-damned game they make should be a Japan-only DS RPG.

Ahh pointless nostalgia.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 18, 2010, 09:13:38 pm
He's talking about ME of course! :P

while the dude at Retro may be telling the truth about playin it, I highly doubt that he game is completed. Another problem I have is this dude seems deeply rooted in the fangame community. One thing I know about those guys is that knowing how to make a game themselves makes them incredibly harsh critics, even to a fault. The troll in question recently posted this in regard to why he won't post a screengrab:

"Screenshots wouldn't work either, since I'm (modesty aside) a very good artist, I could pretty much fake a screenshot and make it look like the real deal. (read: Sonic Nexus Attitude XD 3D). Plus, I have a small project that plays and looks like Sonic 4, so never take any screenshot that comes from me as actuall proof. The same applies for ofscreen takes. I could pretty much be taking pictures of my own monitor..."

so not only did he complain about the physics, but he also believes he can do as good or better work than what we've seen of Sonic 4. Definite ego problem.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 09:19:29 pm
Oh I didn't read that part...

That's like, well, uh, yeah.

Although was telling Sharky exactly the same thing Barry said about people who make fangames, when you make fangames on a constant basis, even something that wouldn't normally be off-putting if you just casual buy the games could make the product seem severely wrong because it's not set on how you want to play it.

Not that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 hasn't got it's own issues (Which I've gone over multiple times as has Sanus) but when you've designed your own levels and look over the original level designs thousands of designs, something that is slightly different can be a major annoyance.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 09:21:13 pm
Quote
I'm not going to name names, but some could!

But I'm not talking about if they were to make a new account, and post fake info. I mean if like George came on here and started posting bogus impressions about the game, maybe even writing an article about it, making MULTIPLE posts about it for the front page, and doing all this to genuinely get a reaction out of other members. It would be pretty unusual don't you think?

But my point is that a contributing member of the community with no history of faking info has a lot more credibility than someone on 4chan for example.

Like I said, just wait and see tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 18, 2010, 09:23:26 pm
Dr SEGA Monkey I said I'm not going to name names! But we have had an incident like that.

As I said, I will believe when I see proof, but explain to me why SEGA would not release the game next month, instead of July, if it was already completed? Could it be he has simply gotten the alpha leak itself? This could also be another logical conclusion.

But to think a game will not be developed on for another few months towards it's release date seems insane to suggest...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 18, 2010, 09:39:05 pm
I don't remember anything like that happening with a well known member. :|

ANYWAY....

Quote
but explain to me why SEGA would not release the game next month, instead of July, if it was already completed?
To iron out bugs? Maybe some acts aren't completed yet? I dunno, the guy never said everything was completed. Doesn't mean the physics will change though. The physics aren't necessarily buggy, they're just....really weird for a Sonic game and not right for "Sonic 4".
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: FireKingX on February 18, 2010, 10:08:41 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Dr SEGA Monkey I said I'm not going to name names! But we have had an incident like that.

As I said, I will believe when I see proof, but explain to me why SEGA would not release the game next month, instead of July, if it was already completed? Could it be he has simply gotten the alpha leak itself? This could also be another logical conclusion.

But to think a game will not be developed on for another few months towards it's release date seems insane to suggest...

So they can continue to release Concept Art of grass to keep the hype up.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 19, 2010, 06:50:13 am
Oh Dr SEGA Monkey, you have no idea about the incidents!

Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
To iron out bugs? Maybe some acts aren't completed yet? I dunno, the guy never said everything was completed. Doesn't mean the physics will change though. The physics aren't necessarily buggy, they're just....really weird for a Sonic game and not right for "Sonic 4".

They are buggy, Sonic jumps and launches himself really far in the air, he gets stuck and doesn't go back down a curve, he also doesn't fall down a horizontal wall when he is walking. If that isn't a bug, I don't know what is.

The guy also said the game was getting it's set rating and being evaluated by Microsoft so no changes can be made, that sounds like SEGA aren't going to be doing anything for the next five months.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 19, 2010, 07:47:20 pm
(http://http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e37/Krunchmastaflex1/successful-troll-is-successful.jpg)

I say he's trolling. He's brazilian duh.

Though I hope that the things we saw in that leaked video get tweaked.
Ya know something, that's why it is called a leak. It is something that gives away a wrong message about the product. Something that Sega doesn't want us to see cause it's not finished. I do not believe in any way Sega just approached a random dude and let him play an alpha stage game. That's ridiculous.

By the time I see actual footage from Sega that shows jumps on the moon I'll get worried. Until then I get easily entertained with concept grass art.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 19, 2010, 09:42:59 pm
I think it will improve, but by how much? Look at the leak we got of Sonic Unleashed, what was improved after the leak besides basic graphical upgrades and whatnot?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 19, 2010, 10:51:37 pm
Step 1: Ignore nerds from Sonic Retro.
Step 2: Get free $Karma points.
Step 3: Free swag.

Even if the guy did play it, why trust someone so stupid that he would risk his entire gaming career by killing any sort of trust anyone would have for him over game testing?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 20, 2010, 05:08:17 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I think it will improve, but by how much? Look at the leak we got of Sonic Unleashed, what was improved after the leak besides basic graphical upgrades and whatnot?

I'm pretty sure that wasn't an alpha.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 20, 2010, 06:06:47 am
The way sonic handles looks like crap, surely this is something that's done pre alpha before the textures and colours are applied?

If sonic is still this floaty come release I probably won't buy it, I don't want my childhood memories sullied by a half assed xbla game.

Oh and dimps, really?!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 20, 2010, 10:06:30 am
Its never occurred to anyone that he's simply describing the same leaked video we all saw? This is Sega we're talking about. They rush games, not the other way around. And a Sonic game to boot? You have to be pretty fucking gullible to believe that Sega would hold off on this.


Who wants to bet the release date is June 23?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 20, 2010, 12:29:25 pm
Actually Jonboy it occured to most of us, mainly me and Ryan :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 20, 2010, 03:32:11 pm
I was hoping against hope that we wouldn't be on the same side of an argument. I didn't want to believe it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on February 20, 2010, 03:39:57 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
The way sonic handles looks like crap, surely this is something that's done pre alpha before the textures and colours are applied?

If sonic is still this floaty come release I probably won't buy it, I don't want my childhood memories sullied by a half assed xbla game.

Oh and dimps, really?!

Because Dimps is SO bad. ;p
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 22, 2010, 05:11:25 pm
What's the matter with Dimps?

Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic Pocket Adventure, daytime Sonic Unleashed on the Wii...

They seem pretty OK. Except for the excess of boost, but oh well.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 22, 2010, 05:24:54 pm
Ah, but there will be no boost in Sonic 4 (as far as we know).

GO! WOOSH! GO! WOOSH! GO! WOOSH! GO! WOOSH! GO! WOOSH!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 22, 2010, 05:29:16 pm
NO BOOST?! TOO SLOW. SEGA LURN FROM YOUR OLD GAMES, ADD BOOST BUTTON!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2010, 10:40:05 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic Pocket Adventure, daytime Sonic Unleashed on the Wii...

Sonic Pocket Adventure was over ten years ago... It's like saying what's the issue with Sonic Team and listing Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 as their good games. The same with Sonic Advance, there is no indication Dimps will be designing levels like that.

The daytime stages for the Wii version of Sonic Unleashed were terrible, especially when you consider the Playstation 3 and Xbox360 version.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Team Andromeda on February 23, 2010, 11:06:15 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic Pocket Adventure, daytime Sonic Unleashed on the Wii...

Sonic Pocket Adventure was over ten years ago... It's like saying what's the issue with Sonic Team and listing Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 as their good games. The same with Sonic Advance, there is no indication Dimps will be designing levels like that.

The daytime stages for the Wii version of Sonic Unleashed were terrible, especially when you consider the Playstation 3 and Xbox360 version.

In most cases it's Sonic Team that design the stages, DIMPS just handle the coding . I would imagine the same is true with the new Sonic
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 23, 2010, 11:11:26 am
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9020610 (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9020610)

Still, for all the bickering that's going on in this thread it could be worse...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 12:13:29 pm
(http://http://www.segabits.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/imageremoved.jpg)

Hmm!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 23, 2010, 12:24:06 pm
Now where did you go and find that??
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 12:25:58 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Now where did you go and find that??
I work for SEGA.

... want a banana shirt?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 23, 2010, 12:29:31 pm
So I'm assuming it's fake.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 23, 2010, 12:59:57 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So I'm assuming it's fake.

I assume so too, got myself a new desktop background though!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 02:41:47 pm
His head on that body looks weird
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 02:43:40 pm
Quote
(http://http://www.segabits.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/imageremoved.jpg)

Hmm!

It looks real to me, haven't seen it posted anywhere else either.

First @ Kogen
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 04:12:57 pm
Quote
<Tweaker> [Waffle]: You're an asshole.
<Tweaker> I wasn't trying to get that image public yet.

OOPS.

All of you guests, please stop looking at it. This is a SEGA FTP style lock-down.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 04:20:10 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Quote
<Tweaker> [Waffle]: You're an asshole.
<Tweaker> I wasn't trying to get that image public yet.

OOPS.

All of you guests, please stop looking at it. This is a SEGA FTP style lock-down.

lol kogen, you are an ass.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2010, 04:34:35 pm
Can't wait to homing attack that thing to death!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 23, 2010, 04:37:44 pm
I don't get it. What did Kogen do that was considered wrong?

Anyway....

It seems they are rehashing bosses too? What's so hard about creating a new boss?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 04:46:59 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I don't get it. What did Kogen do that was considered wrong?

Anyway....

It seems they are rehashing bosses too? What's so hard about creating a new boss?

Kogen is basically getting someone fired lol, don't know how much more assey you can get then that  :afroman:

Although, it's not that the person doesn't deserved to be fired, I'm sure if the company found out he was sneaking images of a product that he would of been fired on the spot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2010, 04:49:11 pm
The guy who is leaking images is being the ass, you just do not break your employer's trust for some internet popularity.

In a way, Kogen just did SEGA a favour!

[spoiler:3bafoujq]Expecting another leak next week anyway[/spoiler:3bafoujq]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on February 23, 2010, 04:50:36 pm
This was leaked by the same guy that played it?

Also, take a look at this:

(http://http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5070/guestsh.png)

SEGAbits is finally getting tons of traffic! No doubt because of the screenshot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 04:51:18 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
I don't get it. What did Kogen do that was considered wrong?

Anyway....

It seems they are rehashing bosses too? What's so hard about creating a new boss?

Kogen is basically getting someone fired lol, don't know how much more assey you can get then that  :afroman:

Although, it's not that the person doesn't deserved to be fired, I'm sure if the company found out he was sneaking images of a product that he would of been fired on the spot.
Stop being a homo. I only took this from Tweaker at a paedophile chatroom. And he got it from a really dumb guy named browny. Blame SEGA for hiring retards, if anything.

Also here is the image again just for fun:

(http://http://www.segabits.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/imageremoved.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 04:54:37 pm
Awesome. Sega requesting you to take down the image pretty much confirms it's real. Sonic still looks odd with his body facing one side and the head facing another.

Also, Kogen U DA BEST. Still hate you tho.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 23, 2010, 05:00:30 pm
Is that sum 400pts?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 05:02:06 pm
I'd buy the shit for 400 MSP and then again on retail.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 05:07:05 pm
You are awesome kogen  :afroman:

also guys, don't post sonic 4 leaked screens here, they will get edited off your post =P SEGA isn't happy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 05:09:35 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
You are awesome kogen  :afroman:

also guys, don't post sonic 4 screens here, they will get edited off your post =P SEGA isn't happy.

They are cutting content from Yakuza 3, basically killing the franchise in the West for good.

Sega can go fuck off for all I care. If anyone wants the image I'll be happy to provide it. Sonic 4 will be shit anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 05:10:57 pm
Well, it normally wouldn't be a big deal in the forums.  

But, considering that almost every site is linking to this topic right now, it's not a good idea to have images posted in it.

If you want to send images over PM, go right ahead.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 05:17:33 pm
Don't be afraid, they won't sue. They don't have the balls to sue those assholes on Kotaku.

Remember Sonic Unleashed.

 :lol: Sega.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 05:20:52 pm
Better watch out for those three people looking at the topic!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2010, 05:21:06 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
They are cutting content from Yakuza 3, basically killing the franchise in the West for good.

To be honest if a hostess minigame is enough to stop you buying Yakuza, than the Yakuza series must be pretty shit in the whole scheme of things.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 05:27:09 pm
Hey, you said it yourself.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2010, 05:29:05 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Hey, you said it yourself.

Well a hostess minigame isn't stopping me from buying it! But if they took the tranny out, oh man, that would have been annoying.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on February 23, 2010, 05:31:38 pm
You already have it. You don't count.

Also, 400 points times three episodes sounds like a steal.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 23, 2010, 05:32:26 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
You already have it. You don't count.

Also, 400 points times three episodes sounds like a steal.

Agreed.
The low price can make up for how bad it looks (graphically) :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2010, 06:03:11 pm
The last one will probably be 800 points. SEGA will sell this like poor quality ghetto crack.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: nuckles87 on February 23, 2010, 06:24:46 pm
The Hostess bar was always the crappiest part of Yakuza. The fact that we're getting Yakuza 3 to begin with confirms the franchise "won't be killed for good".
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on February 23, 2010, 11:43:39 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Can't wait to homing attack that thing to death!

STOP BEING NITPICKY!!  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 24, 2010, 01:15:08 am
Quote from: "nuckles87"
The Hostess bar was always the crappiest part of Yakuza. The fact that we're getting Yakuza 3 to begin with confirms the franchise "won't be killed for good".

I personally enjoyed them actually. I thought they were interesting additions to the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on February 24, 2010, 02:31:19 am
Shhhiii-fffffffffffffffffffff
I didnt get to see pic!, Sure someone will have saved it.

Also, Yakuza... big shame they cut out the hostess bars, will it stop me buying the game? no.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 24, 2010, 08:26:35 am
ok, I think it's fine to post the leaked screens here now.  They are pretty much allover the internet and guests aren't looking to this topic for new info anymore.

So, here they are

http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-leaked ... 4771.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-leaked-sonic-4-images-show-old-school-robotnik-164771.phtml)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 24, 2010, 09:34:37 am
Sonic 2D should be designed by an arcade team as an arcade game.  That is the only way now to capture 2D Sonic right.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 24, 2010, 09:41:13 am
Even though the first games were design with console in mind?  :|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 24, 2010, 10:26:56 am
The first Sonic games were indeed very arcady ..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on February 24, 2010, 10:29:09 am
Mario was an arcade game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 24, 2010, 11:38:28 am
(http://http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6951/sk20.gif)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on February 24, 2010, 11:41:30 am
(http://http://www.teamartail.com/sonicx/56/images/146eggman.jpg)
GET OUT OF MY VEHICLE, I HAVE TO GO TO WORK, YOU DON'T EVEN WORK!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 25, 2010, 10:44:35 am
Good recollection on mario.. the first time I played SMB was in an arcade..

My comments about Sonic arcade have to do with capturing the feel and the energy of the originals.

not sure if it is entirely relevant but genesis was after all a scaled down arcade board..

Arcades experiences are more intense and more of a rush and I think that fits original Sonic better than he has been done today... though I realize a Sonic arcade game is not a practical or realistic proposition. maybe if you could do the arcade games episodic, as well, and find an easy way to add the extra levels..

joint arcade and home leaderboards.. there might be an idea there, vaguely..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 25, 2010, 02:44:35 pm
Quote from: "east of eastside"
Good recollection on mario.. the first time I played SMB was in an arcade..

My comments about Sonic arcade have to do with capturing the feel and the energy of the originals.

not sure if it is entirely relevant but genesis was after all a scaled down arcade board..

Arcades experiences are more intense and more of a rush and I think that fits original Sonic better than he has been done today... though I realize a Sonic arcade game is not a practical or realistic proposition. maybe if you could do the arcade games episodic, as well, and find an easy way to add the extra levels..

joint arcade and home leaderboards.. there might be an idea there, vaguely..

I think you mean you played Mario Bros (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Bros) in the arcades, Super Mario Bros was only NES.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 25, 2010, 03:03:18 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "east of eastside"
Good recollection on mario.. the first time I played SMB was in an arcade..

My comments about Sonic arcade have to do with capturing the feel and the energy of the originals.

not sure if it is entirely relevant but genesis was after all a scaled down arcade board..

Arcades experiences are more intense and more of a rush and I think that fits original Sonic better than he has been done today... though I realize a Sonic arcade game is not a practical or realistic proposition. maybe if you could do the arcade games episodic, as well, and find an easy way to add the extra levels..

joint arcade and home leaderboards.. there might be an idea there, vaguely..

I think you mean you played Mario Bros (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Bros) in the arcades, Super Mario Bros was only NES.
[youtube:2n48we8z]E0HQOKmAPRA[/youtube:2n48we8z]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 25, 2010, 04:16:07 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "east of eastside"
Good recollection on mario.. the first time I played SMB was in an arcade..

My comments about Sonic arcade have to do with capturing the feel and the energy of the originals.

not sure if it is entirely relevant but genesis was after all a scaled down arcade board..

Arcades experiences are more intense and more of a rush and I think that fits original Sonic better than he has been done today... though I realize a Sonic arcade game is not a practical or realistic proposition. maybe if you could do the arcade games episodic, as well, and find an easy way to add the extra levels..

joint arcade and home leaderboards.. there might be an idea there, vaguely..

I think you mean you played Mario Bros (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Bros) in the arcades, Super Mario Bros was only NES.
[youtube:3hsh4pcx]E0HQOKmAPRA[/youtube:3hsh4pcx]

thanks..

Showing your age, MM.  :P

(I'll get around to a reply to the other thread)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 25, 2010, 04:37:55 pm
From the youtube vid that Waffles posted
Quote
Hudson Soft's Super Mario Bros. Special was the first sequel to Super Mario Bros. official licensed by Nintendo, predating Super Mario Bros. 2 (aka "The Lost Levels") by a few months. It was not made for the NES, rather for a somewhat primitive home computer made by NEC, the PC-8801. It's not well remembered today, and what few do remember tend not to remember it fondly, but it's not as bad as some would claim it to be.

Thats a home computer game, not an arcade game.

Looking into it though, there WAS an arcade version it seems, called 'Vs Super Mario Bros', which was very similar. Is that the one you played east? Sounds pretty rare, I'd never heard of it at aleast.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on February 25, 2010, 04:59:03 pm
I played the Super Mario Bros. game in arcades. It was pretty much just like the home version except for 2 players. I remember wanting to go to my local roller skate rink just to play the arcade games they had. I really couldn't give a crap to actually skate there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: east of eastside on February 25, 2010, 08:24:16 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
From the youtube vid that Waffles posted
Quote
Hudson Soft's Super Mario Bros. Special was the first sequel to Super Mario Bros. official licensed by Nintendo, predating Super Mario Bros. 2 (aka "The Lost Levels") by a few months. It was not made for the NES, rather for a somewhat primitive home computer made by NEC, the PC-8801. It's not well remembered today, and what few do remember tend not to remember it fondly, but it's not as bad as some would claim it to be.

Thats a home computer game, not an arcade game.

Looking into it though, there WAS an arcade version it seems, called 'Vs Super Mario Bros', which was very similar. Is that the one you played east? Sounds pretty rare, I'd never heard of it at aleast.


I don't know, that sounds kind of familiar but I remember it being more or less identical to the home version. Also, I played SMB3 in a machine called Playchoice 10 in the arcade, which was probably just an NES cabinet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on February 25, 2010, 08:29:54 pm
Half of the original Sonic Team came from people who worked on RPGs, in particular the Phantasy Star series...

You do not need AM2 or any other one of SEGA's arcade teams to make a good Sonic game, you need a competent developer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 25, 2010, 09:34:31 pm
This just seemed like the most suitable thread for this.

(http://http://boxerhockey.fireball20xl.com/comics/119.jpg)

It does bring up an interesting point though, do you think Tails adds enough to gameplay through his flying ability to warrant including him in future episodes?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 26, 2010, 10:21:53 am
I never get tired of this comic.

I think it would be nice to play with Tails in later episodes. As long as they make him optional..
For real, when I was really trying for highscores in Sonic 2 or completing the game I never played with tails coming along, making me die all the time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ROJM_old on February 26, 2010, 01:10:47 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Half of the original Sonic Team came from people who worked on RPGs, in particular the Phantasy Star series...

You do not need AM2 or any other one of SEGA's arcade teams to make a good Sonic game, you need a competent developer.

Well Sonic team has been the problem for the Sonic series by insisting in sticking with the godawful adventure formula that has ruined the series.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 26, 2010, 01:34:10 pm
Are you sure that's Sonic Team? That seems more like Sega's philosophy of "if its sales, don't fix it"
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ROJM_old on February 26, 2010, 01:46:18 pm
Quote from: "jonboy101"
Are you sure that's Sonic Team? That seems more like Sega's philosophy of "if its sales, don't fix it"

VF has gone through several changes since its inception and so has many other titles.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on February 26, 2010, 01:56:10 pm
http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-3-leve ... 4382.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-3-level-designer-is-working-on-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-164382.phtml)

I thought it was just dimps working by themselves.

can't believe I haven't heard this, sounds too good to be true.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on February 26, 2010, 02:01:32 pm
Quote from: "ROJM"
Quote from: "jonboy101"
Are you sure that's Sonic Team? That seems more like Sega's philosophy of "if its sales, don't fix it"

VF has gone through several changes since its inception and so has many other titles.

Not really. Virtua Fighter has stayed pretty close to home the entire way through. The only big deals I can think of are being able to expand or contract the arena in VF2, the evade button in VF3, the loss of the fat man in VF 4 and that's about it. Other than that, some serious tweaking, and the addition or occasional removal of a character, Virtua Fighter has been pretty damn close to the same game since 1993.

Now that's not a bad thing. And Sega has always used Virtua Fighter to showcase their capabilities, but the series is hardly what one would call daring or risque.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on February 26, 2010, 02:28:33 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-3-level-designer-is-working-on-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-164382.phtml

I thought it was just dimps working by themselves.

can't believe I haven't heard this, sounds too good to be true.

(http://http://sonicstadium.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iizukasanpromo.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 26, 2010, 06:56:37 pm
Quote from: "idiots"
Fans of the sonic series are like most sega fans, we want their old games brought back to the glory days when sega was pretty much the power in video games. Seeing the gameplay of sonic 4 has made many of us realize what we already knew, Sonic 4 will simply not be anywhere near as good as the original sonic games. Either way, We will decide to finally show sega what the fans truly want. A real sonic 4, as long as sonic 4 stays the way it is, we will not buy it, we will in fact buy sonic 1 on release in protest of sonic 4, till we end up with a re tool, or change, we want sonic in hd, not sonic RUSH HD. We will not buy a future sonic game, till we get a true successor to sonic 1/2.

wat.
 http://http://www.destructoid.com/whining-sonic-fans-take-sonic-4-complaints-to-new-lows-164963.phtml
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on February 26, 2010, 07:05:12 pm
whhaaaaaaaat???? hahah
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on February 27, 2010, 08:18:04 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "idiots"
Fans of the sonic series are like most sega fans, we want their old games brought back to the glory days when sega was pretty much the power in video games. Seeing the gameplay of sonic 4 has made many of us realize what we already knew, Sonic 4 will simply not be anywhere near as good as the original sonic games. Either way, We will decide to finally show sega what the fans truly want. A real sonic 4, as long as sonic 4 stays the way it is, we will not buy it, we will in fact buy sonic 1 on release in protest of sonic 4, till we end up with a re tool, or change, we want sonic in hd, not sonic RUSH HD. We will not buy a future sonic game, till we get a true successor to sonic 1/2.

wat.
 http://http://www.destructoid.com/whining-sonic-fans-take-sonic-4-complaints-to-new-lows-164963.phtml
The irony. A day after you post an article about how a miserable "journalist" should shut his mealy mouth, here comes the I Don't Have a Legitimate Job Brigade to ruin everybody's day. In what is perhaps one of the most pathetic attempts at blog 'hipstering' I've ever seen, a wonky-faced young man is telling us to buy Sonic 4 on release and not Sonic the Hedgehog as an online petition by 13 year olds demands, as a show of protest against God Knows What.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on February 27, 2010, 01:59:08 pm
Greg is whining at a couple forums I go to about "OMG FAIL"

I thought this quote is full of win.(A guy responding to Greg)
Quote
I refuse to take you seriously, Greg. You're constantly going topsy-turvy on whether this game will rock or suck over the most minuscule of details.

"Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was announced even though they didn't give us any trailers or previews to how it will look or play! This game will ROCK!"
"They're reusing a few enemies from older Sonic games! This game will SUCK!"
"A leaked video preview came out and suddenly my mind has changed! This game will ROCK!"
"They're making a lot of callbacks to the original Green Hill Zone! This game will SUCK!"

I'm a Sonic fan, and I LOVE SONIC GAMES! Let's go onto a Sonic message board and rant about my wet dream for a Sonic game and how this upcoming SEGA title is NOT EVERYTHING I EXPECT IT TO BE!

Quote
Hope I'm not pushing the boundaries here, but I believe I'll issue a response to Greg, since his rant was directed toward me.

Just for the record, I don't have an opinion on this game. I never stated it was going to be good, and I never stated it was going to be bad either. If you're curious as to why, it's BECAUSE I CAN'T. I'm not going to go over again why basing a game's flaws off of an old alpha trailer and the gameplay of the entire game off of a couple GFZ nostalgia screenies makes you incredible, but I will say you need to wait for an actual official gameplay trailer before you present your opinion as a fact. I'm not canceling out the idea this game will fluke, but frankly, there aren't enough details for me to say it will anyway. In fact, I'm willing to bet there will be a solid engine by the time the next trailer is shown off, and if that's the case, I'll look forward to playing a momentum-based Sonic game when it comes out. We'll see. But there's nothing to see right now.

So, you've got a plan of action, huh? Round up as many people as you can, boycott the game, and make the team starve as punishment for their failure? Cool story, bro. Except I'm not interested in your fucking shit-throwing contest with SEGA. I don't care where you think Sonic needs to go enough that I'm going to listen to your tl;dr's every post. I play videogames because I enjoy videogames, not because I have this warped mentality that it's my duty to know where a certain game franchise is headed at all times and "fix its problems". If you want to get Sonic "back on his feet again" with such revolutionary concepts as not buying the game, that's perfectly fine with me. I'm sure you'll also repeat a bunch of biased, pointless rants older than time itself on how the company needs to get their act together once the next game comes out as well; not that it will be productive, but if that's what makes you feel better of yourself knowing you're not one of those horrible Sonic fanboys everyone in the outside world hates (which, of course, is not the case), then by all means, go for it.

Personally, however, my plan is to either buy the game or not buy the game, depending on what I feel like doing that day. If it's fun, then I enjoy it! If it's not, what a pity then. I'll make a tiny blurb on the forums I go to of what I thought of the game, move on with my life, and do something I think is either constructive or enjoyable.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on February 28, 2010, 10:44:59 am
I saw that article from Destructoid earlier in MTV's Games blog (http://http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2010/02/26/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-boycott-asks-fans-to-buy-sonic-1-instead/). I mean seriously, people?

If they wanna go through with this, well cry me a river.

I sold my Sonic 1 copy a few months ago.
Had I known they were gonna pull a stunt like this I would've charged a lot more for my Sonic 1 copy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on February 28, 2010, 04:44:14 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
I saw that article from Destructoid earlier in MTV's Games blog (http://http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2010/02/26/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-boycott-asks-fans-to-buy-sonic-1-instead/). I mean seriously, people?

If they wanna go through with this, well cry me a river.

I sold my Sonic 1 copy a few months ago.
Had I known they were gonna pull a stunt like this I would've charged a lot more for my Sonic 1 copy.
LOL
I think they meant buying Sonic 1 off XBLA right?
Otherwise it's an even dumber idea.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 01, 2010, 03:02:25 am
Okay guys, the only logical protest I can muster up is that we should all sell our original copies of Sonic the Hedgehog 1 that we bought in 1991, ha, take that SEGA!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 01, 2010, 05:03:31 am
Wait for everyone to purchase Sonic 06 by mistake.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on March 01, 2010, 10:25:34 am
At least being a sega fan is never dull.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on March 03, 2010, 05:03:01 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Wait for everyone to purchase Sonic 06 by mistake.

It would be AMAZING if Sega sends more copies of that game to gamestop. Confusing people with that game and Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 03, 2010, 05:36:59 pm
I can see it now...

Kid: Do you have Sonic the Hedgehog 4?

Employee: For? For what?

Kid: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 for 360.

Employee: Did you stutter? Hm. Anyway, we do have Sonic the Hedgehog for 360.

Kid: So, this is Sonic the Hedgehog 4, 360?

Employee: Yes. That is Sonic the Hedgehog for 360.

Kid: Great! I'll take it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 03, 2010, 06:15:47 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I can see it now...

Kid: Do you have Sonic the Hedgehog 4?

Employee: For? For what?

Kid: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 for 360.

Employee: Did you stutter? Hm. Anyway, we do have Sonic the Hedgehog for 360.

Kid: So, this is Sonic the Hedgehog 4, 360?

Employee: Yes. That is Sonic the Hedgehog for 360.

Kid: Great! I'll take it!

Hahahahahahhaa... Oh that poor, poor child.

On the upside cube would be doing backflips when he saw Sonic 06 back in the charts.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 06, 2010, 10:32:58 pm
more info about sonic 4 in game informer
 Iizuka said he likes homing attack because it allows you to have fun and find different paths by jumping on enemies through the air

view more info here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=6665 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20143227&postcount=6665)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 06, 2010, 11:55:20 pm
And here I just thought he added it because he is a dimwitted idiot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 07, 2010, 03:59:01 am
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
more info about sonic 4 in game informer
 Iizuka said he likes homing attack because it allows you to have fun and find different paths by jumping on enemies through the air

view more info here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=6665 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20143227&postcount=6665)

That's what Tails is for. Iizuka is an idiot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 07, 2010, 08:30:47 am
(http://http://www.sonicstadium.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Sonic-4-screenshots-GI.jpg)

Good folks at Sonic Stadium uploaded the scans.

Iizuka saying that the homing attack will be used for air routes... That is worrying, his history of air routes are often a bunch of badniks that are trying to shot you down whilst you have to chain homing attack them over a bottomless pit...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 07, 2010, 09:37:12 am
Quote
That is worrying, his history of air routes are often a bunch of badniks that are trying to shot you down whilst you have to chain homing attack them over a bottomless pit...

You mean like the screen in the top right?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 07, 2010, 10:06:07 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
You mean like the screen in the top right?

Well no, I don't mind it if the route is optional and to get there you have to string a succession of attacks (Prefered the older methods of the higher you fall the higher you go up if you successful hit an object)

It's when it is the only path over a deadly pit that is worrying.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 07, 2010, 12:13:24 pm
I just do not get his point. Cannot we already use bounce on enemies for this? Or use a spring? Or just things in the levels?

Homing attack is so dull and just negates unique level design.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 07, 2010, 05:25:19 pm
DISCLAIMER: I have no idea what this means, I was just bored xD

(http://http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr62/mappster89/icametons.gif)
(http://http://www.futuregamez.net/ps2games/shadow/shadow2.jpg)
(http://http://info.sonicretro.org/images/4/40/Photos_iizuka.jpg)

(http://http://i47.tinypic.com/kdwm0h.png)

(http://http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/nightsqa_iizuka.jpg)

(http://http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/thumb/6/65/Homing_attack_1.jpg/180px-Homing_attack_1.jpg) (http://http://www.ladyshadow.net/cct/historias/iizuka.jpg) (http://http://humanityquest.com/themes/inspiration/Comics/images_Microsoft/%20BeanManIdeaLight.gif)

(http://http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/sonic_channel/imgs/2/5/259bf021.jpg)

(http://http://i46.tinypic.com/14cv255.png)

Fans reaction:
(http://http://wildgames.es/wp-content/uploads/sonichd-es-fuuuuu.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 07, 2010, 06:49:57 pm
I'm actually pumped to play Sonic 4. Yeah, it might not be as great as Sonic 1-3 (nostalgia can be a bitch) but it will be loads better than Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Spinball, G Sonic, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Genesis, Sonic Golf, Mario & Sonic at any Olympic Games, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic  and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic the Fighters...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: GG-Gurl on March 07, 2010, 07:24:59 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
DIMPS are good, but not great. They should stick to spinoffs and minor titles, not the biggest franchise title SEGA has right now. Would you let Sumo do it, for comparison?
actually,yes,yes I would.
but thats beyond the point
the game looks fine
we shouldnt be overeacting yet
we get pissed ONLY when the game comes out,k?
so calm down everyone
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 07, 2010, 08:18:37 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm actually pumped to play Sonic 4. Yeah, it might not be as great as Sonic 1-3 (nostalgia can be a bitch) but it will be loads better than Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Spinball, G Sonic, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Genesis, Sonic Golf, Mario & Sonic at any Olympic Games, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic  and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic the Fighters...
He insulted AM-#2. Off with his balls.

Quote from: "GG-Gurl"
Quote from: "Waffle"
DIMPS are good, but not great. They should stick to spinoffs and minor titles, not the biggest franchise title SEGA has right now. Would you let Sumo do it, for comparison?
actually,yes,yes I would.
but thats beyond the point
the game looks fine
we shouldnt be overeacting yet
we get pissed ONLY when the game comes out,k?
so calm down everyone
When will women stop
trying to use the inter-
net ?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 08, 2010, 04:57:19 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm actually pumped to play Sonic 4. Yeah, it might not be as great as Sonic 1-3 (nostalgia can be a bitch) but it will be loads better than Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Spinball, G Sonic, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Genesis, Sonic Golf, Mario & Sonic at any Olympic Games, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic  and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic the Fighters...

Barry basically just pointed out that the franchise sucks and for us all to set our expectations low.  :lol:

And I dunno man, at least Spinball, 3D Blast, Shuffle, R, Fighters and Secret Rings/Black Knight had interesting art and sometimes good music and no homing attack.

EDIT: Sonic 3D Blast does indeed have the homing attack, but you need a special shield for it.

Quote from: "Aki-at"
Iizuka saying that the homing attack will be used for air routes...

Or they can just use jumping and air momentum? It worked in all of the Genesis Sonic games... Why have they forgotten about it?

I am no doubt interested in the game, but really, it is pretty much exclusively just because I like Sonic in general, and that bugs me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 08, 2010, 05:40:57 am
Quote from: "Waffle"
When will women stop
trying to use the inter-
net ?

You've got away with murder so far with out any warnings.
Consider this your first, 2 more and your out, which would be a shame.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 08, 2010, 07:25:46 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Waffle"
When will women stop
trying to use the inter-
net ?

You've got away with murder so far with out any warnings.
Consider this your first, 2 more and your out, which would be a shame.
Calm down there, sports fan.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 08, 2010, 07:45:06 am
Quote
Barry basically just pointed out that the franchise sucks and for us all to set our expectations low. :lol:

 :mrgreen: Yeah.... well, I mean the way I see it, Sonic 4 would never and could never beat the original big three. The best I see happening is a fun 2.5D Sonic game that will look gorgeous on an HDTV. I downloaded the HD trailer on the 360 last night and it was really a lovely image. Couple that with fun platforming and you've got a good game. Maybe not groundbreaking, but definitely not a pile of shit.

From the sound of it (in recent interviews), Episode 2 will bring another 5-7 zones and the option to play as Tails or Knuckles. Also, the mention of Episode 1 being an introduction leads me to believe that we'll start seeing more original zones, bosses and badniks as the game progresses. As it stands, I'm happy to have HD remixes of classic zones. The Casino level is going to be a favorite of mine, I can feel it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 08, 2010, 10:50:45 am
Quote from: "Waffle"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Waffle"
When will women stop
trying to use the inter-
net ?

You've got away with murder so far with out any warnings.
Consider this your first, 2 more and your out, which would be a shame.
Calm down there, sports fan.
I think it's you that should calm down. You get over excited and spoil it for everyone every time we cut you a break.

We I wanted you banned from the site right from the start you would have been. We chose to give you a break, don't ruin it for yourself.

Go back and read the forum rules.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 08, 2010, 01:21:35 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm actually pumped to play Sonic 4. Yeah, it might not be as great as Sonic 1-3 (nostalgia can be a bitch) but it will be loads better than Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Spinball, G Sonic, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Genesis, Sonic Golf, Mario & Sonic at any Olympic Games, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic  and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic the Fighters...
Duuude.. Some of those games are awesome..

Also, Sonic Golf?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 08, 2010, 01:40:18 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm actually pumped to play Sonic 4. Yeah, it might not be as great as Sonic 1-3 (nostalgia can be a bitch) but it will be loads better than Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Spinball, G Sonic, Sonic Shuffle, Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Genesis, Sonic Golf, Mario & Sonic at any Olympic Games, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic  and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity, Sonic the Fighters...
Duuude.. Some of those games are awesome..

Also, Sonic Golf?
lol, yeah, Sonic Golf from GluMobile:

(http://http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1029/glu20mobile20sonic20thewn1.jpg)

Really odd stuff, almost looks like a fangame.
http://wireless.gamespy.com/wireless/sonic-golf/ (http://wireless.gamespy.com/wireless/sonic-golf/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 08, 2010, 02:01:39 pm
wow it actually looks fun!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 08, 2010, 07:14:23 pm
(http://http://videogamerx.gamedonga.co.kr/zbxe/files/attach/images/699943/421/403/001/01.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 08, 2010, 10:41:16 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
(http://http://videogamerx.gamedonga.co.kr/zbxe/files/attach/images/699943/421/403/001/01.jpg)
Those are not your scans. Watch out for the sega old timer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 09, 2010, 08:29:16 am
The wall breaking is the highlight of the scans above. I love the sound that goes with it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on March 09, 2010, 03:56:53 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
The wall breaking is the highlight of the scans above. I love the sound that goes with it.


I love that sound to... I remember the first time I went through a wall in Sonic 1.... it was magical.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 09, 2010, 04:05:22 pm
Saw these posted on the SEGA boards.  Nintendo Power scans, lot's of juicy new images... but they are huge scans, so I will just link to them

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7341/np253s4pp1.png (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7341/np253s4pp1.png)
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7444/np253s4pp2.png (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7444/np253s4pp2.png)
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1526/np253s4pp3.png (http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1526/np253s4pp3.png)
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5536/np253s4pp4.png (http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5536/np253s4pp4.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 09, 2010, 04:15:22 pm
The game looks beautiful.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 09, 2010, 04:21:32 pm
If you take Iizuka's stupid statement over the homing attack (and its inclusion) the game looks quite nice actually. It's getting me more interested but I'm certain if I ever get this I will be buying it on a physical format.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 09, 2010, 04:22:01 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
The game looks beautiful.

Agreed.  The game was starting to look bland to me, but these new screens give off some hope :)  They have personality in them, not just bland flash esque graphics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 09, 2010, 05:19:24 pm
The giant sweat drops, Jun Senoue and THIS:
(http://http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5047/picture3ew.png)
Make me really really excited for the game.

Same boss as Sonic 1? I don't think so!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 09, 2010, 06:01:18 pm
Fantastic to hear that about the bosses attack in a different manner, although I would rather them just design new machines in that case. But I guess they aren't confident in the fan reaction.

I liked what I saw in those screenshots except the speed boosters, certainly some more moments of platforming there, hoping we get to see a trailer of it soon though. I want to breakdown the first level!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 09, 2010, 07:44:15 pm
No more gimmicks. No more friends. No more rings. No more badniks. No more rolling. No more music. No more new content. Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 09, 2010, 07:53:35 pm
No More Heroes?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 10, 2010, 07:20:22 am
I'd love to see Kogen go one week without posting a useless smarmy comment.

Anywho, game is looking better than previous leaks. I still can't wrap my head around why so many are freaking out over Eggman not being called Robotnik. Do they also want the planet to be Mobius and Amy Rose to be Princess Sally (per the Sonic CD manual)?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 10, 2010, 07:50:36 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'd love to see Kogen go one week without posting a useless smarmy comment.

You are basically telling Kogen not to post.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Anywho, game is looking better than previous leaks. I still can't wrap my head around why so many are freaking out over Eggman not being called Robotnik. Do they also want the planet to be Mobius and Amy Rose to be Princess Sally (per the Sonic CD manual)?

Robotnik just sounds so much cooler.

But certainly looks better now, though need to see it in motion before I can give a firm opinion. So far have relatively little of the game. I wonder though if there are more than just four stages and if so, will they be Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles inspired levels, although that's almost certain.

If they are, then I suppose Episode 2 will be original content, if that it is just four levels, I think we can guess that Episode 2 will be redressed older Sonic levels.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 10, 2010, 08:15:21 am
I believe the content will be 4 full zones (Splash Hill, Lost Labyrinth, Casino Street, Mad Gear)and 1 unlockable final zone (E.G.G. Station) consisting of 13 acts with seven special stages and five boss battles (4 regular, one final). If the price is right ($15-$20) and if episode II comes by the holidays, I'm happy with that level of content.

Three episodes in total could bring us around 12 zones + 3 final zones (15 total), 14 special stages, 3 playable characters (assuming Tails is in episode II and Knuckles is in episode III), 14 emeralds (7 regular, 7 super) and a partridge in a pear tree.

Seeing as how Iizuka calls episode I an "introduction" I could see the homages to Sonic 1-3 fading as the episodes go on. Some fans want HD remixes, some want all new content. Episode II could very well please that second set of fans.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 10, 2010, 08:31:35 am
I hate that they call Robotnik "Eggman".
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on March 10, 2010, 10:16:51 am
I don't think they will call him anything in the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 10, 2010, 10:19:39 am
I think they should call him Professor Kintobor.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on March 10, 2010, 10:32:25 am
Quote from: "Waffle"
I think they should call him Professor Kintobor.
(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/Kogen/405521-SEGASilver_The_HedgehogSo-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 10, 2010, 10:42:03 am
^I know something is being inserted into Silver, but I don't want to know what....

The name Eggman gets a mention in the submenu boss battle. But that's about as "in the background" as all the times "EGG" has been tossed about in the early games. In titles, in environments, in weapons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 10, 2010, 11:44:57 am
Yes, he was Dr. Ivo Robotnik. Ivo was a play on Ovi. Egg.

That was subtle and an awesome name. Then in SA Sonic mocks him as the Eggman and that's since when we ever heard Robotnik ever again.

Also, (http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/Kogen/405521-SEGASilver_The_HedgehogSo-1.jpg) this is really unsettling.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 10, 2010, 12:25:38 pm
Actually (adjusts nerd glasses) the name Robotnik appears in SA2, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Battle as Gerald Robotnik is featured.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 10, 2010, 04:37:51 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Actually (adjusts nerd glasses) the name Robotnik appears in SA2, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Battle as Gerald Robotnik is featured.
That is correct. But that just supports my opinion that if they have not got rid of the name, why don't they use it? I mean, calling him Eggman was a nice joke, I laughed when I heard it for the first time in SA, but it's a bit overused by now, no?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 10, 2010, 08:37:34 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Actually (adjusts nerd glasses) the name Robotnik appears in SA2, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Battle as Gerald Robotnik is featured.
That is correct. But that just supports my opinion that if they have not got rid of the name, why don't they use it? I mean, calling him Eggman was a nice joke, I laughed when I heard it for the first time in SA, but it's a bit overused by now, no?
Welll personally I liked how it was in Sonic Adventure. Robotnik is the name he used for himself while Sonic said 'Eggman' as an insult.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 11, 2010, 08:08:31 am
spoiler: obviousness ahead:

In Japan, Eggman is the de facto name. The only name. In the US/EU the name was localized to be Ivo Robotnik. Thankfully for Sega, the full name Eggman never made it into the Genesis games, so there was no need to alter code. The only work Sega had to do to establish Robotnik as a name was within the manuals. (remember, Amy Rose was Princess Sally and Earth was Mobius according to US manuals)

With the release of Sonic Adventure, it became a bit more difficult to use the name Robotnik without Eggman cropping up due to voice overs, lyrics, gameplay elements (the E-G-G-M-A-N password), etc. To work around this, the US/EU releases still referred to Robotnik in the english vocal tracks, but Eggman could not be completely wiped out. The solution? Retconning that it was a silly nickname Sonic has for Robotnik!

Then came SA2. With Sonic Team USA at the helm, Robotnik was used at the very start of development (rather than being implemented later for localization as was the case in SA1). The twist was that in SA2, Sonic Team retconned the inconsistency by saying "His name was Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik all along, and his grandfather is Gerald Robotnik! It's a nickname!" :D Of course, this is all BS. Outside of localization, Eggman is the ONLY name to exist in Sonic Team Japan's eyes up until SA2. Robotnik only made its way in when US devs were behind a Sonic game (Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, Sonic Spinball). This isn't to say Sonic Team Japan hated the name Robotnik, it was just that Robotnik wasn't his name. It was a SoA idea, not theirs. Why was Sega of America so intent to keep the name Robotnik alive? Well, Sonic Underground was still airing at the time and the Archie Comics were rather strong. Maybe they still wanted some consistency across all the Sonic media.

Then came Sonic Heroes and Sega said "fuck it." Sonic X was the new cartoon on the block, and being Japanese made, Eggman was all over the place. Why spend the extra time trying to work in Robotnik when Eggman can just be THE name. Thus, heroes kicked off with Eggman (not Robotnik) writing Team Sonic a message and from then on out Eggman reigned supreme.

Of course, uberfans still debate that there was some sort of reason Robotnik changed his name, thinking perhaps he had issues with his granddaddy or that he went insane and adopted the same name that Sonic used to mock him. But really, that's all bull. The only motivation Robotnik had to change his name was Sega attempting to lessen the localization load and create a brand that is consistent in all countries. It's not character-driven, it's business.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 11, 2010, 08:20:28 am
You are wrong with some points.

Firstly, the American release of Sonic the Hedgehog 1 was the original, the Japanese release came later (not certain of the date, but I think only like a month later), which means Robotnik was the original name.

Sonic Team switched to Dr Eggman in Sonic Adventure 2 because they could use the same text they had already made for the menus, to keep it consistent with the rest of the text they did not shrink it down and just decided to use Dr Eggman instead.

Besides Maria and Gerald, "Dr Robotnik" could still be found in Sonic Adventure 2, in some of the CG cutscenes you can see it scrolling behind him. Most likely the people who made these and the names did not know of "Eggman", as you probably know, SA2 was made in America with different people.

And pretty much the most obvious one is that "Robotnik" just makes no sense and would be extremely hard to pronounce in Japanese. Robottoneek? Sonic Team is lazy as shit so they just kept Eggman.

A point Kogen brought up that is very sound, is that most likely the new Sonic Team just never knew and assumed his name was always Eggman.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 11, 2010, 08:38:57 am
What came first? The chicken or the Eggman? Well, the US and JP versions were 3 days apart :P

So in release order, Robotnik hit stores first (June 23rd), however in development Eggman (most likely) came first (June 26th).

Sonic was a collab of SoA and SoJ, but the characters via concept art originated in Japan. One can assume that since Robotnik is such a non-Japanese name, Eggman came first in development, despite Robotnik being having a much stronger presence at release in the EU and US. The game itself supports that Robotnik was never on the mind of Sonic Team during development as Egg appears all over the place.

Taking a look at the Sega Game Art artbook, published in 93, I found something interesting:
(http://http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4672/picture1pcw.png)
Translation reads Doctor Eggman, despite the english reading "Robotnik"

What I find funny is that one without knowledge of the Sonic series could play Sonic 1-3&K and never know the antagonists name. He sure likes using the word "egg" a lot. Perhaps his name is Egg? Egg Man? Eggman? I'm still not convinced that he was Robotnik to Sonic Team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 11, 2010, 09:00:15 am
My point still stands that Dr Robotnik was the original official name, just because it was "Probably" used before the name Robotnik was decided on changes nothing.

Vector the Crocodile was supposed to be one of Sonic's best friends before Tails was ever conceived, that does not mean that he is because they came up with him first. Every since Chaotix I do not even think they ever acknowledged one another, same with Knuckles, which is just retarded on their part. This just leads back to the new Sonic Team just not knowing and not caring enough to actually learn anything about the series.

And what of the Badniks? Even in Japan they were always called that pre-Sonic Adventure. I am pretty sure both names were known by Sonic Team back in the Genesis/Mega Drive days.

I think everyone's point though, is that Eggman sounds and looks stupid. Sonic Team being too lazy to use both is an extremely poor excuse.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 11, 2010, 02:10:37 pm
That was an interesting read, but in the end I must agree with this:
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I think everyone's point though, is that Eggman sounds and looks stupid. Sonic Team being too lazy to use both is an extremely poor excuse.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 11, 2010, 02:14:06 pm
Well, I like both Eggman and Robotnik, but I find it odd that they don't use both nowadays. Especially considering the US/EU fanbase is bigger than the Japan fanbase. It doesn't make much sense as to why they're still catering to the Japanese names. Yeah, I know the game is being developed in Japan, but take a look at the online presence in terms of community hype. The US/UK Sega blogs have been going crazy! Meanwhile the SoJ official site is still under construction.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on March 11, 2010, 02:21:04 pm
Eggman is his Japanese name, his true name, and his name for the rest of eternity.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 11, 2010, 02:30:23 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Eggman is his Japanese name, his true name, and his name for the rest of eternity.
If and you ain't the drag queen of all liars!

The Japanese developers seemed find with calling him Robotnik in Sonic Adventure 2, as well as using Shadow's back-story stuff about Robotnik's relative with the same surname.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 11, 2010, 05:09:19 pm
Robotnik is czech for worker I believe. It was also the name of an underground newspaper published by the Polish Socialist Party.

(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Robotnik_28.10.1931.jpg/416px-Robotnik_28.10.1931.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on March 11, 2010, 06:23:50 pm
We have a bad guy. Russia is a bad guy. Lets give him a Russian name.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on March 11, 2010, 06:34:03 pm
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
We have a bad guy. Russia is a bad guy. Lets give him a Russian name.
Worked for Rockie .
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 11, 2010, 06:36:24 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Robotnik is czech for worker I believe. It was also the name of an underground newspaper published by the Polish Socialist Party.

(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Robotnik_28.10.1931.jpg/416px-Robotnik_28.10.1931.jpg)
It is also the name 'Robot' and "Nik' combined into one for a fat cartoon villain.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 12, 2010, 07:28:02 am
I knew I'd have an excuse to post this one day:

(http://http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9756/robotnik.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on March 12, 2010, 10:54:29 am
All hail Dokutā Egguman! ^___^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 13, 2010, 08:32:37 am
I think Sega's reason for Sonic 4 being DL only is BS. A full retail release would sell, and I'm positive that once all 3 or 4 episodes are out we'll be seeing a disc version. Most likely, Sega chose to do it episodically so that they could get the game to players faster. Were they to hold off until the game was complete we'd probably not see Sonic 4 until the holidays or next year.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 13, 2010, 08:37:55 am
It makes little to no sense considering they are releasing four major games in March at full price.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 14, 2010, 07:17:20 am
I am old fashioned and always prefer a hard copy over a digitial one. But I'll take what I can get. I just hope this game turns out to be fun despite all the weird hate it gets for the past transgressions of post 1999 sonic games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 14, 2010, 08:45:32 am
I'm sure Sonic 4 will be fun, and I'm positive it will be better than half of the Sonic library. The only real challenge is matching up to the original games. My guess is that I'll like it more than Sonic 1 (nostalgia aside), as much as Sonic 2 and possibly better than Sonic 3 (based on how good episodes 2 and beyond are).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 14, 2010, 11:46:34 am
What I don't get is why does Sonic Team build great engines and then ditch them for horrible ones.

Why not use the Sonic Advance engine for Sonic 4? It's nearly identical to the Genesis games, but instead, it looks like Sonic 4 is using the Unleashed physics, or something entirely new.

Same with Sonic Adventure 2. They had great controls for that game. But in Heroes, they ditched it for the Slip-n-Slide-O-Rama™ engine. And in Sonic 06 with the Backwards Physics™ engine.

It makes no sense. When you have something good, just use it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on March 14, 2010, 02:21:33 pm
"Why does Sonic Team ditch their old engines"

Using that statement... don't you want them to reuse the hedgehog engine and crap?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 14, 2010, 02:44:42 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
"Why does Sonic Team ditch their old engines"

Using that statement... don't you want them to reuse the hedgehog engine and crap?
Read the rest of the first sentence.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 14, 2010, 08:42:12 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Same with Sonic Adventure 2. They had great controls for that game.
They didn't used it for Sonic Heroes cause Sonic Heroes plays a lot differently, controlling 3 characters and all.

It was used in Shadow the Hedgehog and panned to death, hence it's ditching.

Personally I think it worked fine in Shadow as well.. It was the level design that was a bit rough on the edges. Cool game either way..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 14, 2010, 09:02:03 pm
It was absolutely not used in Shadow. Shadow's engine was a tweaked version of the Heroes engine. For example, think about the difference in spindash between SA2 and Shadow. Also, think about how fast the character accelerates in SA2 compared to Shadow.

Quote
They didn't used it for Sonic Heroes cause Sonic Heroes plays a lot differently, controlling 3 characters and all.

But they still could've used the SA2 controls. You control only one character at a time anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 15, 2010, 12:54:45 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
It was absolutely not used in Shadow. Shadow's engine was a tweaked version of the Heroes engine. For example, think about the difference in spindash between SA2 and Shadow. Also, think about how fast the character accelerates in SA2 compared to Shadow.

Quote
They didn't used it for Sonic Heroes cause Sonic Heroes plays a lot differently, controlling 3 characters and all.

But they still could've used the SA2 controls. You control only one character at a time anyway.
I read about it in a Sonic site when the game was released. But now that I look at the character models and acceleration, I think you're right. It must have been misinformation.

They wanted to make a full graphical upgrade and add all the team stuff.. Maybe it was easier just to make it all from scratch rather than just tweaking? I don't know..
Sonic Heroes is a fun game. I don't think the engine is really that bad.
I think the best engine most certainly is SA2's though. They should bring that back one of these days. And chao gardens.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 15, 2010, 12:57:20 pm
Keep in mind Sonic Adventure 2 was solely a Dreamcast game.

Sonic Heroes was designed for the Playstation 2, Xbox and Gamecube.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 15, 2010, 04:01:18 pm
Sounds like SEGA is going to be giving us music soon, can't wait!

Quote
To preface our first spotlight, many of you have probably heard by now that Jun Senoue  is doing the soundtrack for the game. Senoue-san is an awesome guy, and I say that not only because he worked on the music in Sonic and Knuckles and a huge number of other Sonic games, but also because I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him in a video conference, and he is both humble and easy to work with.

This time around, Senoue-san has opted for a more traditional style to Sonic music (one I’m very pleased about),

[SNIP]

What’s next to be revealed for Sonic 4? Well, since we’re already on the topic – how would you guys like a little music from the game to listen to in the near future? If you’re interested, we’ll make it happen.

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/03/15/so ... -actually/ (http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/03/15/sonic-4-spotlight-whats-in-an-intro-a-whole-lot-actually/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 15, 2010, 05:02:21 pm
Well what else could a huge timer on "MULTIMEDIA" even be? Kind of pointing out the obvious...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 15, 2010, 06:30:14 pm
5 bucks on Bentley Jones.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 15, 2010, 09:25:44 pm
Sega is hinting that we will hear more music soon.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on March 15, 2010, 10:04:04 pm
I heard SEGA might be giving us soon new music
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 16, 2010, 12:10:07 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
5 bucks on Bentley Jones.
Lol

I think that was a one time thing. SASASR burried that song deep in the game too. You only hear it when you complete a race and even then its a 10 sec snippet just before the lyrics kick in or if you are nuts and watch the credit roll you can hear it there too.

I expect the full version of the start screen or options/select screen. I doubt either of my expectations will come true with the current countdown unlocks the site has had. Talk about trollin the fanbase. :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 16, 2010, 03:53:24 am
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
Quote from: "crackdude"
5 bucks on Bentley Jones.
Lol

I think that was a one time thing. SASASR burried that song deep in the game too. You only hear it when you complete a race and even then its a 10 sec snippet just before the lyrics kick in or if you are nuts and watch the credit roll you can hear it there too.

I expect the full version of the start screen or options/select screen. I doubt either of my expectations will come true with the current countdown unlocks the site has had. Talk about trollin the fanbase. :D

*rave club techno music plays*

I GOTTA BE..

I GOTTA BE...

I GOTTA BE SO MUCH MORE THEN THIS!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 16, 2010, 05:53:13 am
BJ Style.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 16, 2010, 04:09:44 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
BJ Style.
:afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 16, 2010, 04:47:35 pm
(http://http://i.imgur.com/Ggsrfl.png)

Eh... So a whole level in a mine cart, great guys, this truly is classic Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on March 16, 2010, 04:51:50 pm
It varies the gameplay!  :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 16, 2010, 04:54:28 pm
I mean, it would be cool as a minigame, or just a short 15 - 30 seconds intro like the snowboard in Ice Cap. But to have a whole level onrails? :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on March 16, 2010, 05:06:26 pm
Well I guess if they do it right it can't be too bad. The Super Monkey Ball games were usually fun when played with an analogue controller, and its essentially the same thing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 17, 2010, 06:07:21 am
Master System Sonic in HD confirmed!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 17, 2010, 08:20:58 am
I'm cool with a possible mine cart level. I mean, we already have 3 acts, so it very well could be 2 full normal acts and one mine cart act.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 17, 2010, 09:56:47 am
If the whole level is in a minecart... Fuck, I hate Sonic Team so much. You can tell they already messed up the classic formula because they have to give you directions as to how something works. Iizuka obviously does not understand the appeal to the original games, and with huge places like IGN thinking the Genesis games were all about speed and the new releases should be like Mirror's Edge... I am certain now that the series will never be fixed.

Why use the triggers to tilt it anyways? What is wrong with just the analog stick? Why do they need to force in gimmicky bullshit? WHY WHY WHY

Seriously this is really frustrating, it is to the point where I think Donkey Kong Country will be significantly better than this, and that is just WRONG!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 17, 2010, 03:37:03 pm
It is just a short mine cart segment and it is using the top buttons since 360 has no motion.

They did this in the Rush games too.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on March 18, 2010, 02:18:25 pm
http://www.sonicthehedgehog4.com/us/ (http://www.sonicthehedgehog4.com/us/)

some serious updates this time

* you can download Splash Hill Zone Music
* first official pictures from the game
* Zones section opened with Splash Hill Zone video coming soon!
EDIT : you can see EGGMAN as well
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 18, 2010, 02:59:27 pm
I will start with the bitching:

* Splash Hill Zone music is too techno/electronic and lacks the variety and clarity of the Genesis games. Just compare it to Green Hill Zone or Emerald Hill Zone. The tune is fine, it is just the overly simplistic quality that sounds worse than Genesis music.

* All the character models and Sonic look like absolute shite. Skinny, weird angles, bad art, "2.5" cell-shaded... pure garbage and embarrassing on their part.

* Eggman is still smaller than Sonic, which lacks proportion, and his hover craft has useless wings added to it (it is a hover craft, not a plane...). His name is also not Robotnik as it should be.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on March 18, 2010, 03:34:26 pm
I'm mad!

One level has a kart in it! I am boycotting this game!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: kozmo on March 18, 2010, 04:24:45 pm
So bubbles is without spikes due to "budget cuts". Presumably the doctor's been mailing all those rings to those cash4gold gangsters. Almost feel sorry for the guy, bet he had to put the egg pawns on a 3 day week just to keep the doors open...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on March 18, 2010, 10:27:51 pm
Badniks turn into Flickies :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 18, 2010, 11:58:03 pm
I say F the haters. I think this game looks pretty decent mixing the classic and modern Sonics.

The new screenshots are pretty good. I know for certain homing attacks will piss off the purists but you really can't please everybody. As long as this game is FUN I think we've got something here. I really want to see an official gameplay video.

I also like the splash garden zone 1 music sample they put up on the official site. Good stuff. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 19, 2010, 09:45:35 am
I think people are somewhat overreacting about my and a few others negative comments on this game.

While I think the game will turn out okay, this is not good enough for a "Sonic the Hedgehog 4". They really are barely trying to make anything in here outstanding like they would have back in the day, it seems like they barely care or like the 3D Sonic games more. I like some of the 3D Sonic games too, but if you are going to make a retro style game, why even consider adding stuff like that in?

If this was just not called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, I would be fine with it. It is just an average release in the series, by releasing this they will just make the original trilogy seem far less interesting and great to the general public.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on March 19, 2010, 02:34:23 pm
Don't know if its already posted, but here are some screenshots.

http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x? ... #img152164 (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14181&game_id=7958&id=152164#img152164)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 19, 2010, 03:19:08 pm
Quote from: "jonboy101"
Don't know if its already posted, but here are some screenshots.

http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x? ... #img152164 (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14181&game_id=7958&id=152164#img152164)
These better not be screen shots you can just get on the official site !
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 19, 2010, 03:47:20 pm
Oh ho ho ho they are in deedy!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 19, 2010, 05:10:49 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I think people are somewhat overreacting about my and a few others negative comments on this game.

While I think the game will turn out okay, this is not good enough for a "Sonic the Hedgehog 4". They really are barely trying to make anything in here outstanding like they would have back in the day, it seems like they barely care or like the 3D Sonic games more. I like some of the 3D Sonic games too, but if you are going to make a retro style game, why even consider adding stuff like that in?

If this was just not called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, I would be fine with it. It is just an average release in the series, by releasing this they will just make the original trilogy seem far less interesting and great to the general public.

Wow, you REALLLLLLLY have a stick up your ass. How can you call the game not good enough? Have you even played it? Saying "I heard" or "I saw in YouTube footage" doesn't cut it. Jesus fucking christ. (http://http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4108#p4108)

So what you are saying is if it had no Sonic at all you'd be fine with it but since you can use Sonic but not in the specific way you want you wont buy a potentially great game...seems pretty backwards. (http://http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4141#p4141)

Everyone I see complaining about it just wants older content, and I can agree and see why they would want this, but in the end, will probably be just a really fun and enjoyable game. Would you buy it if it was a rancid piece of shit but had better Sonic Models and less features like Homing attack? It is sounding like that honestly. (http://http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4183#p4183)

 :afroman:

(i'm just messin' around guys, you're still cool.)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: jonboy101 on March 19, 2010, 10:42:54 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Quote from: "jonboy101"
Don't know if its already posted, but here are some screenshots.

http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x? ... #img152164 (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14181&game_id=7958&id=152164#img152164)
These better not be screen shots you can just get on the official site !

Yeah so what if they are?!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on March 20, 2010, 07:16:02 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

While I think the game will turn out okay, this is not good enough for a "Sonic the Hedgehog 4". They really are barely trying to make anything in here outstanding like they would have back in the day.

Look I was 3 when Sonic 3 came out. I thought it was great. Going back and playing it, it is still fun, but c'mon there's nothing absolutely "outstanding" about it that they're missing in the new game. It's 2010. Why wouldn't they try and improve the formula a bit? If the game ends up being shit, okay then let's bitch, but you gotta play it first.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on March 21, 2010, 03:38:39 pm
 Downloaded the music from the first stage on the site and... its pretty shitty.

 Jun Senoue is not good enough to do this job.


 Untill now, he has made a better job on Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 21, 2010, 05:08:40 pm
I just downloaded that song, I didn't think it was that good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 21, 2010, 06:33:16 pm
IMO, everything Senoue makes is gold. And this is no exception. This song will grow on you eventually.

Also, check out this Splash Hill remix in Sonic 3 style.

http://http://8bitcollective.com/music/geckoyamori/Sonic+4+-+Splash+Hill+Zone+(Classic+Arrangement)/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 21, 2010, 07:40:33 pm
It sounds nothing like any other Sonic song I ever heard. Considering how vast that selection is, I am extremely confused with how this turned out.

Also, it is not very good. DO NOT TRY AND DEFEND IT DR SEGA MONKERY RAAAAGGGGGHRRRHHHHH
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 21, 2010, 09:01:58 pm
I don't think it sounds as bad as you guys say but it does feel like it's missing some gritty synth sounds the first 3 had. That fan remix really shows that it isn't all that bad, it just needs some instrument changes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 22, 2010, 08:08:57 am
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/ngamer ... cial-stage (http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/ngamer-magazine-preview-confirms-game-length-special-stage)

British gaming magazine, NGamer, just sent out their latest issue in the mail and within its many pages lies a preview of Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1.  

Here are a few key points in NGamer’s preview:

“The sound effects are pulled straight from the 16-bit days, and both the loading screen and the extra life icons rip their sprites straight from the heart of the nearest Mega Drive”

“The bonus stages, activated by finishing a level with over 50 rings, resemble the mazes from the very first Sonic the Hedgehog, but with a modern twist. Now, instead of reacting to the spin of the maze, the player controls it by titlting the Wii remote. A Chaos Emerald is still the prize, but now Sonic has to fight for his right to even be in the same room as the gem – doors blocking off access have t be removed by collecting a set number of rings.”

“Sonic 4 will be split into three episodes, each containing four zones of three acts (and a boss) apiece.”

“Act 3 of Splash Hill Zone is the only act to take place at sunset.”
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 22, 2010, 04:38:44 pm
Quote
After the problems of Sonic Unleashed, Sonic The Hedgehog 4 seems to be finally giving the fans what they want on a home console. Judging by your reaction when this WiiWare series was first announced, it's definitely something that you're really looking forward to. So when we secured an interview with Sega's Takashi Iizuka we thought we'd ask our forum members to pose the questions.

Now, Iizuka wouldn't answer all your questions -he couldn't tell us how long there would be between episodes, how long each episode would last for or whether Mecha Sonic would be making an appearance, but he didn't deny that Tails might make an appearance in a future episode!

This is the second in our 'ONM Asks' series of interviews. Last month you asked Ace Attorney Director Shu Takumi some questions and we're hoping to set up some more in the future. So if there are any leading developers you'd like to grill, let us know by commenting below. On with the interview...

Why has Sonic 4 taken so long to come about? - BADGERGAMER

Takashi Iizuka
Takashi Iizuka:
Ever since Sonic Adventure was released in 1998, Sonic has evolved into a game which is faster and features new actions for Sonic. On the other hand, the sense of speed from side scrolling means that the popularity of 'classic' series still remains high. Even now a lot of fans enjoy playing those classic games via the Wii's Virtual Console. The aim for Sonic 4 is to provide a 'new classic series' using modern techniques that have only been around for the past few years for fans from all around the world who love the 'classical' series.

How long has Sonic The Hedgehog 4 been in development and how has the approach for designing a downloadable game differed from the way you design other Sonic games? - MK Skillz

TI: About a year including concept development. As this is a downloadable title, the data size and price is very different from a packaged title. We just focused on old school classic game content to minimise data size and price.

Why did you decide to make it episodic? - Aki-toriko

TI: The object of this project was to make a game with a lower price which can be played and downloaded easily from the beginning. We are exploring making each episode volume small and having an increased number of possible episodes.

Why did you decide to use the WiiWare service rather than releasing the game on one disc? - Deku Scrub

TI: As stated previously, this was always planned as downloadable exclusive title. We thought the users who purchased classic games like 'Sonic 1' and 'Sonic 2' through the Wii Virtual Console would be the most interested in the downloadable titles.

Were you inspired by the success of New Super Mario Bros on both Wii and DS? In terms of giving the retro fans what they wanted? - FlibyFlow

TI: At first we weren't aware of it. At the beginning of the development we wanted to create a downloadable exclusive title but knowing that the Wii version of New Super Mario Bros. has become a major hit in Japan and also around the world, it encouraged us as even now 2D platform action is loved by a lot of people.

All The classic games since Sonic 2 have featured Miles "Tails" Prower. Will Tails be featured in any one of these episodic adventures? - SuperKnightAI

TI: Tails won't appear in Episode I. I'll leave it to your imagination whether he'll appear for further episodes!

What made you decide to include the Homing Attack, and does it have any impact on the classic- gameplay? - MK Skillz

TI: As you know, Homing Attack was an action featured from 'Sonic Adventure' and it didn't appear in the classic series. In Sonic 4 the Homing Attack is added, and this provides sense of speed that none of the classic series have.

Can we expect only levels or enemies inspired by the original games or will there be anything completely new? - bleedOrange

TI: Sonic 4 stages have motifs that remind us of previous series, but they have been designed to be completely new for this game. We prepared many gimmicks and devices that are classic and also some you have never seen before!

Now Sonic has returned to his old roots, will he remain this way from now on or will we still see him return in his 3D adventures such as Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed? - Dooby

TI: I think Sonic 4 is positioned as a game which provides simple classic gameplay, so it is not considered the same as something which evolved as a 3D action series. I cannot answer how 3D action series will expand from now on unfortunately.

Will Super Sonic be available to players who collect all 7 Chaos Emeralds? - Sonic Boom

TI: It is one of the biggest characteristics of the classic series but whether it is in this game or not, I'll leave to your imagination.

In your opinion does this game have most in common with the Sonic the Hedgehog trilogy, the Sonic Advance games, or the Sonic Rush games? - spambot404

TI: Of course Sonic the Hedgehog trilogy is the one this has most in common with. With the DS Sonic series, you have various actions like grind or boost. What I am creating with this title is a simple platform action game that you can enjoy with one button.

Any chance we could see a return of the Vs Mode from Sonic 2 and Sonic 3, where you have to race a mate to the end of the zone? - Random_guy_14

TI: We don't provide Vs Mode in Episode I. Unfortunately, I cannot answer about further episodes at this point.

Will the Wii version offer something different to the PS3 version? - The Batman

TI: Basically we prepared identical game content so users could enjoy playing with their preferred hardware platform. However, some hardware specific capabilities are implemented. For Wii, you can enjoy a special stage by using the Wii Remote's tilt control.

What is your favourite thing about the game so far? - Flash7

TI: What I like most is being able to provide new [games like the] classic series after 16 years. Developing a classic Sonic world that used to be pixel art and making it high-res by using CG rendering means a lot for me as I was one of the developers of the original classic title.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co. ... p?id=16088 (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=16088)

All the talk of speed speed speed (like to explain the homing attack) makes me a bit concerned.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 22, 2010, 07:07:16 pm
new pixxx:

http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/sonic-the ... 269C6E24F0 (http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-i/screenshots/g-2010020916482445011/pic-F10BC912-0137-4916-9DC1-C8269C6E24F0)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 23, 2010, 06:36:25 am
NeoGaf is in meltdown mode again now that their fears of the homing attack have been confirmed in this newest batch of screen shots.

Honestly, I don't know what to expect with the homing attack in a fully 2D setting. It can go either way really. Hopefully the levels can be completed without it and the homing attack is in there more as a way to get high scores on time attacks. The older games used it more as a crutch to corral Sonic between different areas that would have been too hard to navigate in 3D.

I want an official video of this game released soon. I want to stay hyped.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 23, 2010, 06:51:44 am
The homing attack only became the 'enemy' recently.... not 5 years ago Sonic Adventue 1 and 2 were considered the hight of 3D sonic games and everyone forgets the glowing review scores for Sonic Rush.

I've never had a problem with homing attack... I must say I really dislike the lock on thing around the enemy though... Sonic doesnt need that shit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 23, 2010, 07:24:04 am
As long as the homing attack works, I'm happy. Considering the devs are dealing with one less dimension, I think the downgrade from 3D to 2D will benefit the attack. Make it easier to code and function.

I played some Sonic 3 yesterday with the Game Genie cheat that allows for Sonic to have the flame shield attack at all times (minus the shield). It really did play like Sonic with a 2D homing attack and worked rather well!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 23, 2010, 03:10:32 pm
I think people are missing the point of the complaints of the homing attack.

It will just significantly hurt the game. In the original 2D games you had to actually aim yourself over enemies or item monitors, etc, now you can just keep pressing the same button to get everything done. It was specifically added to go against platforming and to add speed. Iizuka just used it because he wanted more FASSSSSST, you can tell he wanted the boost in the game too.

Sharky, stop mentioning the 3D games, the homing attack is fine and makes sense in those. Especially in 3D Blast, where it was a shield you had to find... Which is what it should have been in here. Sonic Rush is a completely different style of a game, so do not bring that up, either.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 23, 2010, 06:04:50 pm
I agree, Sonic in 3D needs a homing attack, because it's so much harder to aim in 3D than it is in 2D. The homing attack is just going to kill off platforming to make more room for SPEED. Because Sonic is all about SPEED and nothing else. Mabye they should add a SPEED button that just lets you SPEED through the levels without having to worry about jumping or enemies or anything that detracts from the SPEED.

Yes, I know I'm being a bit negative, but really... it's Sonic Team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 28, 2010, 07:25:40 pm
http://soundcloud.com/bigthecat (http://soundcloud.com/bigthecat)

Durr, sux.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 28, 2010, 07:44:50 pm
None of it sounds like Sonic music at all, it is closer to a mix of WonderBoy and Crash Bandicoot.

Not buying this crap, they obviously do not know what made Sonic good, and they do not care to try and fix it. They are literally not even trying to do anything even remotely good, just copy all of their past work and try to blend it in with the new series too much.

I had hope for this too, it is a damn shame everything revealed thus far just completely sucks and we all know it will not get any better.

It is ridiculous to think that you could ever make such a cheap game about a character I like so much and make me not want it at all. I really rather get Sonic and the Black Knight over this, at least they tried new concepts in that and it actually has pretty good music.

Sonic Team is never going to be fixed I guess, I cannot believe I have bought so many of their products over the years thinking "Maybe the next one will be better" or "I will just remain cautiously optimistic!".
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 28, 2010, 07:59:29 pm
Sounds fine to me, I like about half of the tracks and it sounds sonic-ish enough.
There were no tracks I dispise as much as marble garden zone or green hill zone so it's fine by me.

The only one I'm not that impressed with is the Boss music, I would much prefer if they just lifted the boss music from one of the older sonic games. It didnt strike fear into me like the old
'DUN-DUN DUN-DUN DUN'DUN DUN-DUN'
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 28, 2010, 08:16:54 pm
Sanus, Sonic will always be what they want it to be. It's just a videogame, don't have a cow. When it comes out, download the trial and try it. If you like it buy it. If you don't then fuck it.

I still think it's bogus to diss a game on pure speculation. Has anyone actually tried out the homing attack? No? Well then what are you complaining about?
It's like saying you don't like grapes, without ever trying some, cause one time you ate some olives and you wouldn't like olives to go with your fruit salad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 28, 2010, 08:27:33 pm
I doubt anyone here but me cares, but the "Boss Music 1" is exactly the same as the unused beta music from Sonic 3D Blast.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVbSwD2I8eY

Doesn't even sound like a boss theme. Sounds like a spooky carnival theme or something.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 28, 2010, 08:38:30 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sanus, Sonic will always be what they want it to be. It's just a videogame, don't have a cow. When it comes out, download the trial and try it. If you like it buy it. If you don't then fuck it.

I still think it's bogus to diss a game on pure speculation. Has anyone actually tried out the homing attack? No? Well then what are you complaining about?
It's like saying you don't like grapes, without ever trying some, cause one time you ate some olives and you wouldn't like olives to go with your fruit salad.

I have given my reasons as to why the homing attack being in the game is a bad decision, I am not going to keep talking about it anymore.

What you are missing is that I am not hating the game because of "Speculation", I just hate pretty much everything about it. The art I hate, the music I hate, the badniks are just rehashed ones from earlier releases and worst of all they are my LEAST favorite badniks from all of the games, that is quite a feat!

I am not getting mad at the game because I am guessing the gameplay will suck, I just hate everything about the game from what I can see and I feel the choices in the gameplay are extremely poor. Of course I will try the demo, but there is no way I am buying these separately.

I mean, I just hate the game, I want nothing to do with it. It is like me telling you to "Become a fan of a soccer team you hate, just give it a try, you might like it!". You know you hate the team, so why should you ever bother?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 28, 2010, 08:57:54 pm
Mad Gear songs sound awesome, you must admit.

Also, why are the tracks so short??

Honestly, most of the tracks aren't very memorable. It's like notes were just randomly arranged. Very unlike Senoue.

Invincibility music sound really awesome though. It's definitely memorable and catchy. Same with the Mad Gear music. Shame the whole soundtrack isn't like that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on March 28, 2010, 09:03:16 pm
Why did they use clown music for the boss theme?

The casino track came on while I was looking at other things. I thought that sounded like a casino level. I checked and it was, thats good i guess.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 28, 2010, 09:42:07 pm
Well, after listening to the Splash Hill tracks for a while, I actually kinda like them now.

I think the problem with these songs is that the instruments just kinda drone for too long. But the actual melodies could be fine.

But it doesn't change the fact that Boss 1 Music doesn't fit at all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on March 29, 2010, 01:51:17 am
If these leaked tracks end up being the real deal and in game, maybe they'll fit better once I get the full experience infront of me. It's really wierd getting this disembodied soundtrack without a game or footage to go along with it.

How do people find this leaked stuff and how does this stuff so easily? Now that the cat's out of the bag, maybe it's time for SEGA to finally show some real footage from the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 30, 2010, 08:24:20 am
Can somebody please tell me this tunes sound all the same? Because that's what I hear! The beat is always the same and that electronic sound from the beginning of Splash Garden Act 1 is literally everywhere. I love you, Jun Senoue.

For fucks sake.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 30, 2010, 08:33:26 am
Quote from: "Orta"
Can somebody please tell me this tunes sound all the same? Because that's what I hear! The beat is always the same and that electronic sound from the beginning of Splash Garden Act 1 is literally everywhere. I love you, Jun Senoue.

For fucks sake.
Yeah!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 30, 2010, 12:32:39 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Sonic Team is never going to be fixed I guess, I cannot believe I have bought so many of their products over the years thinking "Maybe the next one will be better" or "I will just remain cautiously optimistic!".

Last bright spark of SEGA left, you'll see!

[spoiler:2jjpd28a]When they announce Shadow 2[/spoiler:2jjpd28a]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 30, 2010, 05:05:55 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sanus, Sonic will always be what they want it to be. It's just a videogame, don't have a cow. When it comes out, download the trial and try it. If you like it buy it. If you don't then fuck it.

I still think it's bogus to diss a game on pure speculation. Has anyone actually tried out the homing attack? No? Well then what are you complaining about?
It's like saying you don't like grapes, without ever trying some, cause one time you ate some olives and you wouldn't like olives to go with your fruit salad.

I have given my reasons as to why the homing attack being in the game is a bad decision, I am not going to keep talking about it anymore.

What you are missing is that I am not hating the game because of "Speculation", I just hate pretty much everything about it. The art I hate, the music I hate, the badniks are just rehashed ones from earlier releases and worst of all they are my LEAST favorite badniks from all of the games, that is quite a feat!

I am not getting mad at the game because I am guessing the gameplay will suck, I just hate everything about the game from what I can see and I feel the choices in the gameplay are extremely poor. Of course I will try the demo, but there is no way I am buying these separately.

I mean, I just hate the game, I want nothing to do with it. It is like me telling you to "Become a fan of a soccer team you hate, just give it a try, you might like it!". You know you hate the team, so why should you ever bother?

So now you understand why I don't like Sonic and Sega All Stars Mario Kart?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 30, 2010, 05:21:08 pm
Video of the entire first act:

http://http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8678/8415.mp4
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 05:24:53 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So now you understand why I don't like Sonic and Sega All Stars Mario Kart?

This is different. It is a direct sequel to one of my favorite games of all time and I actually hate the people making it and have played all of their products that they ever released, so I know how they work and think.

Also, I will actually play the demo.  :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 30, 2010, 05:35:32 pm
Also from that video, you'll hear the Sonic 3 Act Clear jingle.

Finally, the rightful order has been restored.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 30, 2010, 05:45:30 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So now you understand why I don't like Sonic and Sega All Stars Mario Kart?

This is different. It is a direct sequel to one of my favorite games of all time and I actually hate the people making it and have played all of their products that they ever released, so I know how they work and think.

Also, I will actually play the demo.  :roll:

No, it's pretty much the same as far as I can see. We both don't like nearly everything about the games from what we've seen.

And I will play the demo too, remember that I was waiting for a time when it wouldn't murder my internet cap? Thanks for reminding me though, I'll download it this weekend or something!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on March 30, 2010, 06:16:01 pm
VIDEO. VIDEO ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE.

FULL ACT.

The level design looks pretty good. However the physics are still wonky.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 06:19:02 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So now you understand why I don't like Sonic and Sega All Stars Mario Kart?

This is different. It is a direct sequel to one of my favorite games of all time and I actually hate the people making it and have played all of their products that they ever released, so I know how they work and think.

Also, I will actually play the demo.  :roll:

No, it's pretty much the same as far as I can see. We both don't like nearly everything about the games from what we've seen.

And I will play the demo too, remember that I was waiting for a time when it wouldn't murder my internet cap? Thanks for reminding me though, I'll download it this weekend or something!

I still say it is different.

While I will give you not liking the general gameplay (if you want to say it is just Mario Kart), SARS was not a sequel to anything specifically. It was a crossover of different IPs which played like nothing specifically like SEGA, which is what bugged us. With Sonic the Hedgehog 4 the only thing that is not Sonic-like is the music, which by the way, even with all of those damn Rush songs, SARS had a really good soundtrack.

If it just was not called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, I honestly would not mind as much. It is not like if the title of Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing being changed would have made anything different, just would have had one less bullet point on one of Sharky's lists.

Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
VIDEO. VIDEO ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE.

FULL ACT.

The level design looks pretty good. However the physics are still wonky.

 :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 30, 2010, 06:32:53 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
VIDEO. VIDEO ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE.

FULL ACT.

The level design looks pretty good. However the physics are still wonky.

Someone download it and stick it up on youtube... I can't get the video to play only the sound...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 06:36:33 pm
The video is on TSSZ. See it now!

The physics are a huge improvement from what we saw last, but what bugs me the most is that the rolling sound is wrong... How could they ever ever EVER choose the wrong sound for that??!?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 30, 2010, 06:38:28 pm
Game at least seems better than Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Rush so far... Even if that isn't saying much!

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I still say it is different.

While I will give you not liking the general gameplay (if you want to say it is just Mario Kart), SARS was not a sequel to anything specifically. It was a crossover of different IPs which played like nothing specifically like SEGA, which is what bugged us. With Sonic the Hedgehog 4 the only thing that is not Sonic-like is the music, which by the way, even with all of those damn Rush songs, SARS had a really good soundtrack.

SARS was something that MadeMan and I am sure many others was pretty much going to be their biggest game for the next calander year and beyond.

So I would say that's pretty big. It's exactly the same case for him, it might not be for you, but it was to him to what Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is to you.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 06:40:11 pm
I do not really see how. I was just excited for the game as you guys were at first.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was totally different, right at the start I was like "This looks good, I guess". YOU were the one who kept talking about it nonstop!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 30, 2010, 06:45:46 pm
Game looks like fun.

I like fun.

I will buy game.

 :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 30, 2010, 06:47:52 pm
The physics look much improved but still off... he shouldnt be able to run up the side of that cliff so easy..

But the animations are still terrible, stiff and ugly as fuck! I really hope they are improved by release... because as is, I wouldn't play the game for that reason alone.

-The slow jog animation, goes to slow for the speed he moves at, it looks floaty and weird.

-The 'I just came off the edge of a jump' thing where he puts his hands in the air almost like the classic falling after being hit animation is... well, bloody rediculous. I really hope that isnt final and they give it the 'roll into ball' animation.

-The jumping 'balled up' animation is faaar to slow! FAR to slow... It needs to look like its wizzing around.

-There NEEDs to be an animation for 'walking up steep cliff faces' because boy does that look wrong.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 30, 2010, 06:49:03 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Game at least seems better than Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Rush so far... Even if that isn't saying much!

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I still say it is different.

While I will give you not liking the general gameplay (if you want to say it is just Mario Kart), SARS was not a sequel to anything specifically. It was a crossover of different IPs which played like nothing specifically like SEGA, which is what bugged us. With Sonic the Hedgehog 4 the only thing that is not Sonic-like is the music, which by the way, even with all of those damn Rush songs, SARS had a really good soundtrack.

SARS was something that MadeMan and I am sure many others was pretty much going to be their biggest game for the next calander year and beyond.

So I would say that's pretty big. It's exactly the same case for him, it might not be for you, but it was to him to what Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is to you.

I don't think I would go so far as to say it was the biggest game of the year for me. I was excited at first, and gradually lost excitement until they hit rock bottom with 2 Billy Hatcher Levels. Then Barry got cross with me for not liking it.
Quote from: "Sharky"
-The 'I just came off the edge of a jump' thing where he puts his hands in the air almost like the classic falling after being hit animation is... well, bloody rediculous. I really hope that isnt final and they give it the 'roll into ball' animation.
I agree, that is just incredibly dumb. Hope they fix that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 30, 2010, 06:50:23 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was totally different, right at the start I was like "This looks good, I guess". YOU were the one who kept talking about it nonstop!

Er, no, there was that one day, which you told me to fuck off on, mainly because it was the major SEGA news. Otherwise, I did not talk nonstop about it, heck I hardly even talked to you during that period about almost anything SEGA because you seemed to get extremely angry and upset with the company (Mainly because of EoE) and the only other release we could even talk about was SARS, which I didn't care about either!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 06:55:57 pm
You were talking about the game constantly for a week man, DO NOT DENY IT!

And how about you fuck off onto MSN IM?  :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 30, 2010, 07:01:08 pm
I got mad?! That's crazy. I never get mad!

Well, in retrospect: SASAR is a really fun game, but is lacking in about 5 Sega IPs. If Billy got three tracks, Sega and Sumo should have balanced it out with three totally awesome hardcore fan tracks (I'm talking Streets of Rage, Outrun or Daytona). So SASAR is like a really really delicious cake and a beer, but Sega really could have thrown in a handjob.

As for Sonic 4, like I said: looks like fun.

Looks WAY better than about 80% of the post-Sonic & Knuckles releases. I'm certain it will be better than Spinball, Chaotix and 3D Blast. ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 30, 2010, 07:13:01 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Looks WAY better than about 80% of the post-Sonic & Knuckles releases. I'm certain it will be better than Spinball, Chaotix and 3D Blast. ;)

Sonic Spinball has good music and was advertised on Cookie Crunch cereal in my area. Better.

Knuckles Chaotix has good graphics/art/music and starred Knuckles. Better.

Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis) has some of the best music in the franchise and Robotnik's mustache could be burned. Better.

 :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 30, 2010, 07:15:04 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Looks WAY better than about 80% of the post-Sonic & Knuckles releases. I'm certain it will be better than Spinball, Chaotix and 3D Blast. ;)

Sonic Spinball has good music and was advertised on Cookie Crunch cereal in my area. Better.

Knuckles Chaotix has good graphics/art/music and starred Knuckles. Better.

Sonic 3D Blast (Genesis) has some of the best music in the franchise and Robotnik's mustache could be burned. Better.

 :roll:

All three games were horrible to play though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 30, 2010, 07:19:38 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I got mad?! That's crazy. I never get mad!

I was just joking around, I know you're too mellow to get angry on the internet. You have to save that anger for co-workers who think Daytona USA is comparable to Mario Kart Wii!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 30, 2010, 07:47:53 pm
That's right! You know me too well...

Btw, Virtua Fighter 5 is needed once I finish my taxes. I want to give the IRS an overhead hammer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 30, 2010, 07:54:40 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
That's right! You know me too well...

Btw, Virtua Fighter 5 is needed once I finish my taxes. I want to give the IRS an overhead hammer.

Hit me up for VF5 anytime, I'm always up for it.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 30, 2010, 07:55:59 pm
I heard the music, it sucks. I saw the video... Eh, the level design looks decent bar the occasional speed booster. The homing attack still feels pointless. The physics feel odd and so do the animations - the level appears to be scrolling much faster than Sonic's animations.

Whatever. Give me ABC.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 31, 2010, 02:04:00 am
NeoGAF already sprouting out the bullshit Mirror's Edge is the best Sonic game in ages, fuck off!

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
You were talking about the game constantly for a week man, DO NOT DENY IT!

What else could I do? ALL THE GOOD SEGA GAMES ARE PS3 EXCLUSIVES!!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 05:55:58 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
What else could I do? ALL THE GOOD SEGA GAMES ARE PS3 EXCLUSIVES!!!!

George stop hacking into Aki-at's account and spreading PS3 propoganda.
Everyone knows StormRise was on both consoles.

Anyway, Mirrors Edge the best sonic game in ages? Lolololol. Splinter Cell Double Agent was the best Sonic game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 31, 2010, 06:09:36 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
NeoGAF already sprouting out the bullshit Mirror's Edge is the best Sonic game in ages, fuck off!

It has bottomless pits alright.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 31, 2010, 07:14:25 am
Quote
Splash Hill Zone Act 1: http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4534/8141.mp4 (http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4534/8141.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Act 2: http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2341/7720.mp4 (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2341/7720.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Act 3: http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9246/1090.mp4 (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9246/1090.mp4)
Splash Hill Zone Boss: http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6848/7863.mp4 (http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6848/7863.mp4)

Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 1: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7383/8267.mp4 (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7383/8267.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 2: http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6210/9209.mp4 (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6210/9209.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Act 3: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1030/4362.mp4 (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1030/4362.mp4)
Lost Labyrinth Zone Boss: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8728/6809.mp4 (http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8728/6809.mp4)

New leaks of the levels. It all looks pretty nice generally.

Just look at the bold one, though. :/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 07:20:13 am
It's like they are trying to fail now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 07:36:22 am
Looks awesome! The mine cart level is frustrating to watch, mostly because the player is sucking so hard at it. Thankfully, the boss level features a level before the boss fight, so the mine cart isn't stealing an act of platforming.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 31, 2010, 07:39:16 am
It's the waggling level.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 07:47:36 am
Or the triggering level ;)

Or the jump up and stick your arms out like an airplane and lean level!!!! ...assuming Natal support is implemented ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 31, 2010, 07:55:29 am
Man, after seeing the videos all I can think is the homing attack is a big mistake. It really hurts the gameplay, especially during boss fights.

To be fair, I really like what I see. The only thing, art wise, that bothers me is the damn smoke coming out of Sonic's feet.  :lol: The music is a complete and utter piece of garbage. Sega was better off asking OC Remix for music.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 31, 2010, 08:43:13 am
Whats the deal with this shit. Someone put this on youtube or something nothing shows up but sound effects...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 31, 2010, 09:02:19 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Whats the deal with this shit. Someone put this on youtube or something nothing shows up but sound effects...
Stop using Winamp.

For me, I basically agree with Orta. The game does look nice in action, but that homing attack is ruining it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on March 31, 2010, 09:41:04 am
Get this, Sharky: http://www.cccp-project.net/ (http://www.cccp-project.net/)

If the video runs slow, look around for something called CoreAVC. It's not free, but I think you can use it for a limited time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on March 31, 2010, 10:16:54 am
WTH the mine cart level looks horrible ! the rest is fine though ...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on March 31, 2010, 10:26:28 am
hmmm.. the mine cart level.. they should limit the tilting to make it more fluid. Otherwise it might be confusing for some people (say, the guy playing the game)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 11:19:02 am
LOL Lost Labyrinth Act 1 video, at 1:37 he yawns. Stayin up late playin games, little boy?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: TimmiT on March 31, 2010, 01:23:09 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Whats the deal with this shit. Someone put this on youtube or something nothing shows up but sound effects...
Sega removes them when they're uploaded on Youtube, so be quick:
Splash Hill act 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBk4TnhRiVo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBk4TnhRiVo)
Splash Hill act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-aTy5pxe5Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-aTy5pxe5Q)
Splash Hill act 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJIkpBhUdlc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJIkpBhUdlc)
Splash Hill boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI-V4prFXbE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI-V4prFXbE)
Lost Labyrinth act 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtuY91uBVZM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtuY91uBVZM)
Lost Labyrinth act 2 (featuring Sonic's new friend: the minecart): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjA-jad-N1I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjA-jad-N1I)
Lost Labyrinth act 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXTqzLxOZOA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXTqzLxOZOA)
Lost Labyrinth boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIYwMEQNpaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIYwMEQNpaI)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on March 31, 2010, 01:40:47 pm
 Iizuka is a retard! Completely!

 Sonic is too big, as like Eggman. Also, you can not see the stage so far, what's coming ahead. Bad camera view...

 What the hell are those arms opened after jumping? Ridiculous!

 Worst musics on the series EVER! These retards have not noticed this is a numbering title!?!? This is NOT a spin-off!!!

 The cart is horrible and looks exactly what kind of shit Dimps always do, and reminds me Sonic Rush Adventure, that I HATE!

 >_<
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on March 31, 2010, 01:52:14 pm
Well, regardless of how the Lost Labyrinth Act 2 stage plays, NeoGaffers already hate it and when you lose NeoGaf, you pretty much set the entire game onto a collision course.

What a crummy week it has been...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 02:34:16 pm
I'm happy, nothing but positives here. :D The internet is safe!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 31, 2010, 02:40:38 pm
A useless gimmick not needed that could otherwise ruin a pleasent platforming experience, that's the Sonic Team I know!

[spoiler:2vb2n85s]I am off course talking about the homing attack.[/spoiler:2vb2n85s]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on March 31, 2010, 03:32:17 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
A useless gimmick not needed that could otherwise ruin a pleasent platforming experience, that's the Sonic Team I know!

[spoiler:1n2s3vc3]I am off course talking about the homing attack.[/spoiler:1n2s3vc3]
Now use the Wii Wheel to control Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 04:46:23 pm
Hmm, it's kinda sad really. Aki-at brought this up the other day in MSN: It's sad that Sonic 4 looks like it's turning out to be 'alright but not great', and is Downloadable only, and taking the cheap way out with 3D instead of 2D, but King of Fighters XIII is getting the best 2D graphics I've ever seen, full arcade and retail releases, and they even secured a spot for it in Japan's biggest tournament event.

Sega is a giant of the industry, and Sonic games sell millions of copies even they are rubbish games but they just palm off 'Sonic 4' to be a DLC cheapie episodic game. SNK is struggling to survive, but put together something really special for the sequel to their flagship series, one that doesn't have the resources or sell as well as Sonic.

I mean, is it really asking so much for Sega to really go all out for this game? Sonic is such a huge part of the company, to name a game Sonic 4 and seemingly half-ass it like this just doesn't seem right.

Please note I'm not bashing the gameplay or anything, but you have to agree that the graphics, size of the game and format just don't the game and the magnitude it should have.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 05:11:37 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Please note I'm not bashing the gameplay or anything, but you have to agree that the graphics, size of the game and format just don't the game and the magnitude it should have.

I'm not taking what you wrote as a bash, no np. However, I cannot agree with the above. Graphics, in my opinion, look way better than I expected. I was thinking sprite based Genesis graphics which, IMO, has been done to death in the fan community. And instead we got shiny HD graphics.

Size of the game is totally fine by me. This is episodic, so don't think that Sonic 4 = 4 Zones. Sega has hinted that the total game will have 12 Zones and 36 acts, making it larger than Sonic 1, 2 or 3 & Knuckles.

Format, again I am fine with download only. Minus a disc and box, it still plays like any other game on the PS3/Wii/360. Plus, who is to say Sega won't release a complete package on disc in the future? It hasn't been ruled out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 31, 2010, 06:59:49 pm
Dear lord, the mine cart section is completely excruciating to watch. I literally let out a horrific groan when I saw just the first few seconds of it.

I honestly cannot believe it is turning out like this. Look how clunky and unfun that section is! Unbelievable Iizuka, unbelievable!

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Please note I'm not bashing the gameplay or anything, but you have to agree that the graphics, size of the game and format just don't the game and the magnitude it should have.

I'm not taking what you wrote as a bash, no np. However, I cannot agree with the above. Graphics, in my opinion, look way better than I expected. I was thinking sprite based Genesis graphics which, IMO, has been done to death in the fan community. And instead we got shiny HD graphics.

Size of the game is totally fine by me. This is episodic, so don't think that Sonic 4 = 4 Zones. Sega has hinted that the total game will have 12 Zones and 36 acts, making it larger than Sonic 1, 2 or 3 & Knuckles.

Format, again I am fine with download only. Minus a disc and box, it still plays like any other game on the PS3/Wii/360. Plus, who is to say Sega won't release a complete package on disc in the future? It hasn't been ruled out.

So, because YOU were expecting it to look like a 20 year old game we all have to be okay with it looking like a 15 year old game? It seriously looks like a shitty first generation 2D PlayStation game. This is simply unacceptable, especially when you read into MadeMang's point with The King of Fighters XIII. The fact I can name literally tons of games made by people in their basement within a month on flash sites, iPhone, PSP and even the fuggin' DS means I am straight up outraged with how poor this looks.

The art is the main issue though, I think. The level art is bland, Sonic's head is bigger than Robotnik's body (how could they have messed this up...?), it all just reeks of a lazy game like Sonic Blast on Game Gear. I guess that game at least had no stupid gimmicks like full mine carting stages.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on March 31, 2010, 07:24:07 pm
Alas, that is the fate of any and all Sonic game, which is to include any bit of gameplay that deviates from what is considered a normal Sonic game.

Of course, I get what ManMadeGT74 is saying and it's pretty much what I've been thinking from the start.

Ever since Sonic 4 was announced as a download-only title I feel that it did cheapen the whole ordeal.

Because I feel that downloading the game is a step down from the thrills of buying the game in a store or ordering it online and just itching to get it.

Nevertheless, should Sega consider a actual physical release it's OK by me.

And you don't have to use KoF as an example, I mean look at the New Super Mario Bros Wii, it's a 2D game, it's yet another re-re-re-release of a classic Mario game but damn does it sell!

Now, I am having some mixed emotions about the game. I love the music in this.

I have the Splash Hill Zone MP3 sample and I like it. It's a total throwback to the old Sonic music and kinda feels uplifting.

And while the animation seems kinda awkward at first, I start to notice how animated and detailed Sonic's model is.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on March 31, 2010, 07:29:10 pm
I've watched all of splash hill zone except the boss battle, no more =P

The physics are off, but the game still looks fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 07:42:08 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
Of course, I get what ManMadeGT74 is saying and it's pretty much what I've been thinking from the start.

 :afroman:

Quote
And you don't have to use KoF as an example, I mean look at the New Super Mario Bros Wii, it's a 2D game, it's yet another re-re-re-release of a classic Mario game but damn does it sell!

The reason I used KOF specifically is that, here is a company who is struggling to survive, but when it comes time to make a numbered sequel to their flagship series, they went all out. They stuck with the 2D graphics even though it meant it was much more time consuming and costly, they went with a full Arcade and Console release with Location tests etc. When you consider how much larger Sonic and Sega is than KOF and SNK, you would think the first Numbered Sequel in over a decade or however long it's been would recieve the same kind of treatment, but it really doesn't seem like it is.

I have nothing against DLC games, but by their nature they do seem restricted in size and scope since people need to download them. We see that they took the easy way out with graphics and the gameplay has a lot of curious changes too like the homing attack. I know I keep bringing it up, but it really is a big fundamental difference between the original games and this one in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 07:48:30 pm
LOL You guys got me! Derp, of course! You act like a bunch of butthurt crazy Sonic fans who rip a game to shreds before even playing it as an April Fools prank!

Well consider me gotten.   :lol: :mrgreen:  ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 07:53:22 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
LOL You guys got me! Derp, of course! You act like a bunch of butthurt crazy Sonic fans who rip a game to shreds before even playing it as an April Fools prank!

Well consider me gotten.   :lol: :mrgreen:  ;)

 :cry:

What did I say that was unreasonable? I still think the game looks like it'll be fun, but I can't honestly say it doesn't look like they took the easiest/cheapest options for a lot of the game.

I know it doesn't look 'BAD', but I do get hte feeling that tehy weren't very confident with this title and wanted to keep costs as low as possible.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on March 31, 2010, 07:56:09 pm
@MadeManGT74

Lol, why do I always mix up your username! It's like I have dislexia or somethin'.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 07:57:48 pm
(my April Fool on you was that I got angry)

APRIL FOOLS!

No, I agree, the game COULD have been "So Much More Than Thiiiiiiiis!" but then again it is "So Much More" than the past 4 or 5 3D Sonic games. For once a Sonic game that acts like a Sonic game! So I take it as a step in the right direction and a Sonic game worth playing, but not as THE Sonic game I've been waiting for.  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 31, 2010, 08:03:39 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
@MadeManGT74

Lol, why do I always mix up your username! It's like I have dislexia or somethin'.

haha, no problem, it's not a very obvious name.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on March 31, 2010, 08:36:08 pm
Every new video I see of this game it looks better and better. Like really better!

Obviously this was NOT supposed to be seen, it is probably still an unfinished build of the game. So lets not jump on little issues here and there just YET.

I would like them to improved a few animations, completely remove that coming off of the ramp weird ass hands in the air thing... tweak the physics... Thats the biggest issues remaining.


What this game could do with to keep people happy is a 'Hard Mode' where homing attack is disabled and there are less speed boost bumpers.

and It would be nice if they moved the camera slightly 'back' so you can see more of the screen.

All in all, I'm very much liking what I'm seeing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 31, 2010, 08:40:39 pm
The shitty close camera is in part due to the fact that the player is on a old tube TV, so a good portion of the left and right of the screen is unseen and/or scans when in confined quarters.

If Cream was in this game I'd have my own "Hard Mode" to play.  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on March 31, 2010, 08:45:12 pm
It's a good thing SEGA already has three game of the years for me (Yakuza 3, 4 and Bayonetta) or else I would be super angry!

Well not really, I would just say lol Sonic Team, not good enough to handle SEGA's biggest series. AM2 and Nagoshi's team has way more talent and represent SEGA better.

Game is waaaay too fast for it's own good, now normally this sounds odd when we are talking about a Sonic game, but the acceleration is really off and Sonic speeds up way too fast, hardly any momentuam building, Ruby you lied to us! Without the homing attack I would imagine the platforming would be so much better.

A lot of poor decisions that have been tacked on, Iizuka truly is mad, he justifies it being downloadable because 2D Sonic titles wouldn't sell well enough on their own (Which is, frankly, silly to think I feel) but then adds the same bullshit fans have not wanted in the Sonic games in the game that is meant to be Sonic returning to his woots.

lol Sonic Team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on March 31, 2010, 08:48:25 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Every new video I see of this game it looks better and better. Like really better!

Obviously this was NOT supposed to be seen, it is probably still an unfinished build of the game. So lets not jump on little issues here and there just YET.

I would like them to improved a few animations, completely remove that coming off of the ramp weird ass hands in the air thing... tweak the physics... Thats the biggest issues remaining.


What this game could do with to keep people happy is a 'Hard Mode' where homing attack is disabled and there are less speed boost bumpers.

and It would be nice if they moved the camera slightly 'back' so you can see more of the screen.

All in all, I'm very much liking what I'm seeing.

The game is supposed to be based around the homing attack and speed boosts, if they would remove those it would be like removing the run/grab button from Mario. They would literally have to rebuild the level design from scratch for it to all work out.

Not sure how anyone could watch the mine cart level and say anything remotely positive about it though. That is honestly the worst thing I ever saw in the entire franchise. I am being serious.

Otherwise, probably my favorite part of the game are the animations. While the falling one looks retarded (reminds me of Nintendo stuff) the rest are really nicely animated and "Cute", which is something Sonic games have needed for so long. That angsty, toothy grin can burn in Hell.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
The shitty close camera is in part due to the fact that the player is on a old tube TV, so a good portion of the left and right of the screen is unseen and/or scans when in confined quarters.

In the Genesis games, the screen would take Sonic out of the center when you moved fast enough. This is going to be a big issue, especially with Wii gamers.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
If Cream was in this game I'd have my own "Hard Mode" to play.  8-)

 :!: Watch out  :!:  That is how Pachuka went to jail!  :arrow:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on April 01, 2010, 12:15:41 am
I'm really liking how this game's shaping up.  Using the homing attack to chain hits on airborn enemies to get to secret areas could be a cool little extra.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 01, 2010, 01:33:32 am
The reactions here are so much different from NeoGaf. It's almost like a breath of fresh air to see people here willing to give the game a fair chance and be so positve about it.

I like the art style of the game and really don't mind the addition of the homing attack. Each original Sonic game had some new angle added to the game to keep it fresh. I think the homing attack could work well depending on level design.

As for the mine cart level I'm really not all that happy about it. It really doesn't seem like it works well. I also feel Sonic's animations between walk jog and dash are still a little rough. Sonic also needs to be able to stay in ball form if he rolls up a ramp. Having him go to his falling animation after a ramp is changing too much. Also the physics need a little tweaking so Sonic can't walk vertically up ramps/stick to them without a running start.

Other than what I mentioned above, I think the game can be fun and I will be buying it when it comes out. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on April 01, 2010, 07:45:13 am
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
The reactions here are so much different from NeoGaf. It's almost like a breath of fresh air to see people here willing to give the game a fair chance and be so positve about it.

Somebody should make an image with this and post it there.  NeoGAF's opinion on...

New Mario game: innovative, genius, ground breaking, excellent, I can't wait.
New Sonic game: (after a three second trailer) the lighting in the background is way off, Sonic Cycle, it's going to suck, lol Sega, Sega is dead.

There will never be a universally acclaimed Sonic game again. It can be the best game ever, but thanks to people like this and places like Kotaku and IGN, it will never happen. It sucks because it's Sega. Oh my god, they cut content I'll spend 5 minutes with!!! NO BUY

If Sega had a hype machine they'd have a much better image. When I played Call of Duty 4 I was like "Is this it?". However, it was acclaimed everywhere and called game of the year and ...yawn. It's a good game but there are better games. Battlefield BC says hello.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 01, 2010, 07:48:42 am
New challenger:
Negative Nancy.


Actually, I'm liking the way the game is coming out. Odd? I thought that the first trailer was really bad. SEGA really screwed up, the new stuff looks good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 02, 2010, 12:06:30 pm
Casino Street Zone leaked, act 1, 2 and 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HOLl0qvWYE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HOLl0qvWYE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0tzovOPdF8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0tzovOPdF8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr7TKeMdlkU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr7TKeMdlkU)

Also OMG the whole second act of Casino Street Zone is a giant pinball machine, Sonic Team never fail me! :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on April 02, 2010, 01:22:55 pm
The videos are very hard to watching considering how retarded the player is.

I guess this is the Sonic 4 demographic?

EDIT

Where is the boss?????
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 02, 2010, 01:40:41 pm
Looks fun! I always like the casino levels.

The YouTube video descriptions made me lol.
Quote
Same thing as last time SEGA if you want me to take this down PM me please! Thanks in advance.

Like, "Hey Sega, don't be dicks like last time and remove my videos of your leaked work without ASKING first. Thank you ^_^"
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 02, 2010, 01:44:31 pm
Quote from: "Waffle"
Where is the boss?????

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/58/622.mp4 (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/58/622.mp4)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on April 02, 2010, 02:07:47 pm
I enjoy how the homing attack ruins that boss. Very good!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 02, 2010, 03:08:07 pm
I enjoy how the only relatively hard part and original bit of the boss starts after you've taken out 50% of his health, even better!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on April 02, 2010, 03:17:29 pm
So far both this boss and the first only get interesting after they are almost dead - defeating the point.

Hopefully in options you can change the boss difficulty to 'hard', as you can in the GBA/DS games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on April 02, 2010, 05:00:01 pm
Videos are dead now :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on April 02, 2010, 05:41:02 pm
Oh, snap, didn't see the Casino-themed level. Oh well...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 03, 2010, 06:20:25 am
(http://http://xs.to/image-C8CB_4BB71976.jpg)

Someone over at Sonic Retro did a level map of act 2 of Casino Street Zone.

Like OMG, it's even worse when I see it in full! Bright spark of SEGA guys! :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on April 03, 2010, 06:21:34 am
The Casino Street Zone apart from the repetitive Act 2 seems a lot more fun than the Lost Labyrinth Act 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 03, 2010, 07:53:36 am
Eh, too much negativity.  People are judging the game and forming opinions when they haven't even played it yet.  I agree Casino Street Zone act 2 looks horrible, but it's still no reason to go bashing the whole game and forming early opinions.

Wait until you play it to form opinions.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 03, 2010, 07:57:16 am
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Eh, too much negativity.  People are judging the game and forming opinions when they haven't even played it yet.  I agree Casino Street Zone act 2 looks horrible, but it's still no reason to go bashing the whole game and forming early opinions.

Wait until you play it to form opinions.

Will you follow that advice for Conduit 2, Grinder and various other games though?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 03, 2010, 07:57:53 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Eh, too much negativity.  People are judging the game and forming opinions when they haven't even played it yet.  I agree Casino Street Zone act 2 looks horrible, but it's still no reason to go bashing the whole game and forming early opinions.

Wait until you play it to form opinions.

Will you follow that advice for Conduit 2, Grinder and various other games though?

No, those games don't interest me at all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Waffle on April 03, 2010, 08:05:46 am
Awesome, they are going to set up Wii demos so we can see if these motiony games actually work? Great!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 03, 2010, 04:09:59 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Eh, too much negativity.  People are judging the game and forming opinions when they haven't even played it yet.  I agree Casino Street Zone act 2 looks horrible, but it's still no reason to go bashing the whole game and forming early opinions.

Wait until you play it to form opinions.

Will you follow that advice for Conduit 2, Grinder and various other games though?

No, those games don't interest me at all.

So you'll stop bashing them for no particular reason?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 03, 2010, 05:13:57 pm
Sonic 4's final level, Mad Gears, has been leaked, also special stage too if anyone is interested.


Act 1 http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4070/2481.mp4 (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4070/2481.mp4)

Act 2 http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1859/5887.mp4 (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1859/5887.mp4)

Act 3 http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5430/4520.mp4 (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5430/4520.mp4)

Boss http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2785/1183.mp4 (http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2785/1183.mp4)

Special Stage 1 http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6924/6812.mp4 (http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6924/6812.mp4)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 03, 2010, 08:51:59 pm
I do not know why they had to use these Act 2 gimmicks, none of them seem even remotely fun, either. Why not set them up like missions in Sonic Adventure 2 as an optional thing that is just meant to extend gameplay for completionists? I would have been fine with that.

I also do not know why there are 4 acts for each zone. The reason they changed from 3 acts to 2 in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 was because they wanted to have more designs and level gimmicks and because some people thought just three acts were boring. In Sonic the Hedgehog 3, they even added completely new layouts and gimmicks to each act, along with a boss for each one as well. Even just on a basic concept level, this is such a massive decline for the original series. Another lazy Sonic Team "Attempt".

The bosses are really such a massive disappointment as well. All of the ones we have seen so far have been ripoffs of the old games, and not even the most interesting ones, either. Like, why is the casino boss the same one Knuckles had before you fight Mecha Sonic in Sonic & Knuckles? It seriously cannot be that hard to think up something new... Hell, just bring in a boss from one of the Advance games if you must... The only cool new idea is how Robotnik gets mad and starts acting crazy, but by this time you only need to hit him like two times anyways, so it just seems like another waste. Bright spark, etc etc.

Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Eh, too much negativity.  People are judging the game and forming opinions when they haven't even played it yet.  I agree Casino Street Zone act 2 looks horrible, but it's still no reason to go bashing the whole game and forming early opinions.

Wait until you play it to form opinions.

Dude, of all of the people I ever talked to in my life, you have ALWAYS been the absolutely most critical on games you have not played. Just because you like Sonic's design does not mean everyone has to like the game too. I feel I have been very very very fair on the game. Everything negative I have said was given a good excuse, too.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 04, 2010, 07:41:11 am
Looks like we've gone past critical mass and went straight into melt-down mode across the internet. Man, what the hell has happened? The game has been shown pretty much in its entirety in video form online. How does a whole game get leaked so many months before it's actually released?

On one hand it gave the internet a good reason to nit-pick a few crucial parts of the game, but on the other hand it's like watching somebody's dvd rip of a movie that has yet to be released. Leaks are getting way out of hand. This could cause more trouble for the regular gamer who tows the legal line well and keeps street dates.

I'm rambling on as I really don't know what I really want to say at the moment besides this is all really, really, getting out of hand. The hating, entitlement complex, and general attitude of the internet is really getting to a point where it can really cause the already socially out of sync idiots in government to make unnecessary rules to more all our hard earned toys and rights away. F'n-A!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 07:49:27 am
I think my Prime Minister has more pressing issues than to be worried about a whole game being leaked online starring a blue three foot tall hedgehog Fuji :lol:

But being serious, the whole script for Silver was leaked early, Sonic Unleashed was leaked early and many more leaks regarding Sonic has just generally happened, SEGA America/Europe (Although I am betting more on the former considering their, eh, organization at current moment) have really bad security regarding Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 04, 2010, 07:52:40 am
Thank you for putting me back into focus Aki-At.:D

What I meant to say is all this digital espionage and related stuff is going to cause a lot of trouble and give legislators the wrong ideas to try to "help" media/game corporations to keep their intellectual property safe from people who share leaks with the rest of the world.

Governments always start with the small stuff then go for the big stuff later after they've conditioned the sheep long enough. XD
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 07:57:28 am
Well most of these problems just arise to how dodgy SEGA is at keeping secrets.

Look at Electronic Arts, Capcom, Nintendo, Ubisoft etc now, perhaps it's because I am not a major fan of them that I don't notice any leak, but I've never heard the amount of information that has been given out incorrectly. Just the other day AM2 blamed SEGA of America for giving out AfterBurner Climax's release date early! I don't think governments would use what SEGA has been doing as a reason to go down that route, SEGA pretty much just does it to themselves that even SEGA of Japan has begun to take notice.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 04, 2010, 08:14:35 am
Sorry if I seemed to crack up in my last post.

Anyway,  I wonder what's going to happen to PartnerNet? Will they finally serve up a banhammer and knock out all those modified Jtagged systems that have been tapping into it all along? Something should be done at the very least so it doesn't happen again, or at least not at such a blatant scale as Sonic4's.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 08:56:59 am
No idea, who knows, but stuff like this will always continue to leak.

Going back to Sonic the Hedgehog 4, after what I've seen, I am convienced this game is going to be a raging success and probably one of the biggest hits on the XBLA and PSN platform, despite what SonicRetro, Sonic _____, NeoGAF etc would have you believe declairing this is the end, from the looks of things, I think a lot of people are going to try the first level, love it, then continue on to purchase the full game, especially since it's only for $5, or even if it's only $10, I would imagine quite a few would purchase it.

Shame, because I think this would indicate to Iizuka that the Casino Street gimmick and the mine cart level as what fans want in future releases.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on April 04, 2010, 09:20:56 am
I have seen the "leaked" videos, and still not liking it.

 Does not looks fun.


 Is the worst on the entire series, has less originality than Sonic CD and the musics... I don't need to play it to judge the musics. And the musics are pure crap for all stages.

 I'm completely disapointed with Sega again.


 Next time, just call Ohshima to design the backgrounds, scenarios, call Jimita and Bo to do the sounds, Naka for the program and Yasuhara for the levels.


T+
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 09:33:42 am
Oshima did Blinx. Guy has lost it.

Jun's lost it too.

Naka is too busy making shitty bird games.

Yasuhara has gone to SEGA's evil twin.

Sonic Team is just not very good anymore either.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on April 04, 2010, 09:48:45 am
Oshima is, still the best choice to do the art! He does not needs to be in charge of the whole game(direction).

 You can clearly see that Naka is NOT busy with nothing, since that game looks pure shitty and poor, like he is doing another minigame. But it's ok, Naka does not needs to return, since most of the people at Sega hates him. ;p

 Yasuhara is better than Iizuka one hundred times! I'm sure he has no future at Bandai Namco. Sega should keep an eye on him. Since Naka has left the company, I'm sure that Yasuhara could come back without any issues.

 Bo has just made a cool comment on the Alex Kidd music album, leaving in the air that he CAN COME BACK to compose again... but nothing is confirmed anyway.

 Jimita and Bo are the real guys beyond the highest sound quality on the Mega-Drive at that time, but both have left the company too early... but their sounds are memorable even today! They are 2 of the best Sega composers of all time! Jun Senoue is not better than Bo or Jimita, sorry :P

 
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 10:02:00 am
Oshima's work at Artoon is not impressive at all, I'd rather he not come back, and why would he? He is a president of a company now, no need to do much in game design anymore.

Yasuhara  will be at Namco for a while, doubt he would want to return to the company he left on bad terms with.

Naka has gone crazy. He doesn't even bother with programming (Or quality from the looks of things) anymore and he is in the same position as Oshima.

Neither of those compossers are coming back anytime soon. We are stuck with Jun, Suzuki help us all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on April 04, 2010, 11:05:05 am
Well, Sega hired Dimps to do the job instead making it 100% in company.

 They can obviously hire Artoon, Prope and the newest company build by the Alex Kidd/Phantasy Star/Opa Opa creator(that I forgot the name) to do the job. Bo have met him again invited by Sega last year.

 Whatever, Sonic 4 looks the worst on the entire series; there is not much to do anymore. Too late... :|


 Oh, yes, Jimita is always invited by Sega(Takenobu Mitsuyoshi) to play with them on some concerts. He has never broken with Sega completely. He was also an original member of ST Band.
 
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 04, 2010, 06:00:14 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Look at Electronic Arts, Capcom, Nintendo, Ubisoft etc now, perhaps it's because I am not a major fan of them that I don't notice any leak, but I've never heard the amount of information that has been given out incorrectly.

Street Fighter IV had every new character, some new ultras and a couple of system changes leaked about October or September last year. Even then it wasn't quite as much as Sonic 4.

More specifically on the topic of Sonic 4, I'm going to open a can of beans here.

As it currently stands,
I will not be buying Sonic The Hedgehog 4.

The game looks like a dissapointment to me, and while I'll probably try the demo, I'm just not liking the look of the game. I know that everyone where (sans Aki-at and maybe Storm) will buy it and praise it, but from what I'm seeing, I think I may sit this one out. Anyone else turned off this game or feel they may be?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 04, 2010, 06:12:00 pm
Final level and ending credits for Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8vLsAs_4Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8vLsAs_4Dg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwHnSS5lv9E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwHnSS5lv9E)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on April 04, 2010, 06:59:21 pm
I have only looked at the leaked Splash Hill videos. I don't want to spoil the rest of the zones for myself since it's such a short game.

Also, Oshima didn't even design Sonic completely. His original design had fangs and a human girlfriend and crazier spikes, but then SEGA of America changed all of it to the (classic) Sonic we all know and love.

So Oshima was never that great anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on April 04, 2010, 08:03:49 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I will not be buying Sonic The Hedgehog 4.

I will be stealing Sonic The Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Featuring STRANGE MINECART
Post by: max_cady on April 04, 2010, 08:14:47 pm
@MadeManGT

I'm not too crazy for Sonic 4 but, pretty much, since the beggining.

But to be fair, I also had very bad impressions from Sonic Rush early on. I would never dream it would get a criticial reaction that was this good.

Now here's a fun, pointless and interesting fact:

The director for this game is Toshiyuki Nagahara who, according to Moby Games (http://http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,158636/) is credited for developing at least 3 games with Nintendo(Fire Emblem, Advance Wars: Dual Strike and Paper Mario) and one with Electronic Arts(Theme Hospital, the 2007 port).

If the game turns out rotten, I can rub it in NeoGaf's face if they make another outrageous claim like saying that only Nintendo staffers can do Sonic right.

[conspiracy mode on]
Tagahara is a Nintendo cronie sent to destroy Sega's beloved franchise and if you disagree with me, you, sir, are worse than (fill in blank with a random dictator's name or someone that you can somehow remotely associate with George Bush).
[/conspiracy mode off]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 04, 2010, 08:26:39 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I will not be buying Sonic The Hedgehog 4.

I am not getting the game either. Honestly, I am barely even interested in it, people keep telling and showing me stuff about it, which is how I have stayed in the know and why I keep talking about it here.

I think that generally the game is alright, but that is my main issue with it. The fact that it is not anywhere near as stellar as any of the three original games is a huge offense. Seriously, if they just changed the title I would not mind this release nearly as much. Almost everything about the game is not very good or very original. The people working on this just clearly do not have the same passion as the ones who made the originals, which I think is the main issue.

Oh, and as I said before, the minecart is literally the worst thing I ever saw in the entire franchise (excessively hard to do now). I really rather not support that kind of thing!

I might get the rumored compilation disc, but there is no way I am buying each episode separately, even for a cheap $5 each. Pretty sad for me to have to admit that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Featuring STRANGE MINECART
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on April 04, 2010, 09:00:30 pm
To those who watched the credits, is Jun Senoue the only music composer listed? Or are there other names.
Title: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Happy Cat on April 05, 2010, 07:33:15 am
This will temporarily have it's own thread, I will merge it into the existing one in a few days, but this needs to be said on it's own

my post on neogaf:

Hey Guyz, stop being assholes with SEGA, they want your help.  Maybe Ruby would come back if you stopped being so rude

On Sonic Retro front page (http://http://www.sonicretro.org/)

Quote
I didn’t want to make this post, in all honesty.

However, over the past 24 hours, there’s been a reaction from the larger Internet community who can’t seem to understand why we took the step of removing all Sonic 4 discussion on both our forums and IRC and there’s largely been a backlash. I’d like to address some of this backlash, as it seems in our silence there has been misinformation, assumption and arrogance on why we did what we did.

From the first announcement of Project Needlemouse back in September, Sonic Retro has been abuzz over this game. A teaser trailer that really told us nothing at all generated hundreds of pages of discussion. It’s been really clear that this project was in part directly aimed towards our portion of the fanbase: the older members yearning for a return to the 2D classics. The people who wrote long, scholarly topics discussing the minutiae of level design. The people who studied the physics of the Mega Drive Sonic engines so thoroughly that they now know every difference between each one. The people who felt so passionately about the superiority of these games that they took apart these games in hopes of recreating the magic themselves in a way that they could share with people, who like themselves, loved this so much.

If you’ve watched the leaked videos released over this week, it should be pretty clear to you that on multiple levels, Sonic 4 is trying to answer these pleas. In the nearly ten years I’ve been part of the Sonic fandom, I see quite a bit of things that were asked for showing up in these videos. Do not think that Sega is unaware of the things that were written over time. Sega is well aware of Retro and has been for years.

That’s why, when Sonic 4 was formally announced, Sega approached us in the hopes of working with us to help them. As they had been used to taking feedback from the site for years passively, the idea was that we would help in creating an active feedback cycle that would get the community involved in the series. When we spoke to representatives, we were looking forward to establishing a relationship that would lead to things that would ultimately help the Sonic fan community: not only would our feedback and criticism be used in a major way, we would be able to gain access to things that we cannot now get under current procedures. This was essentially a trial balloon to show that the fans who were truly passionate about Sonic would be helpful to the process rather than a hindrance.

The agreement made between Sega and Sonic Retro concerning the inevitable issue of information and asset leaks was simple: we agreed that while it would be near-impossible to stifle forum conversation (and in fact that if we did so, it would simply move elsewhere, given the nature of the Internet), we could help in minimizing leak impact by not publishing leaks on our front page. This seemed like a reasonable accommodation and we agreed. Moreover, the staff of the site privately discussed what we felt would be OK as a leak, given that said leaks, while providing valuable early feedback and whetting fan appetites, could potentially damage our relationship with Sega or even bring legal repercussions, seeing as this is not exactly a game released 16 years ago.

Because the leaks we had experienced prior to this week fell under things we felt were non-damaging and potentially helpful (early video, text of achievements, pictures, music), we took no direct action. Nearly all of these leaks also originated at Sonic Retro and this was something we did not have a problem with, as we did speak to each person who leaked these assets privately. However, throughout this past week, one of our members decided to continue leaking videos to a point where essentially the entire game was shown, and we felt that crossed a line that we could no longer morally support and pulled discussion entirely.

There have been several rebuttals to this action, and I’d like to address that now. The first is that we did not ban this member upon their leaks. The fact is that if you’re reading this on a connection, you have at least some familiarity with how discussion spreads on the Internet. If we had suppressed the links this member posted, we would look dumb: when people see something they know is valuable, they right-click-save and proceed to spread it everywhere. In fact, this is what happened with the last few leaks, as the member chose to leak in IRC rather than post. People are eager to put up mirrors and share with friends and sites, and that’s only normal. For us to clamp down on this member would simply mean that he would move to another medium or forum, and the discussion would still come back to Retro anyway. It’s better to hold the upper hand to strike when needed than to do so too soon.

The second has to do with our front page posting. If you look through our posts, you will see that barring one post by a moderator who was not fully briefed about how to handle front page posts in this situation, all our “leaked” material are relatively low-impact. Once this moderator was informed of the procedure on Sonic 4, they removed the link.

We have never in our history received a cease & desist order from Sega in spite of the things we do on this website, and that is something we are proud of. The way we try to handle the Sonic franchise is one with respect; we do not condone piracy of Sonic games and believe whatever game copying and modification should be done out of research and desire to know more about Sonic than simply skirting the law. The reason at the end of the day that we enjoy looking at prototypes is not to boost our e-credibility or because we enjoy playing buggy, half-finished games; it’s because we want to know everything about the development process and see what was left on the cutting room floor.

This is partly why I find those accusing us of being upset over having some sort of exclusivity in the works or something so ridiculous. Barring a single leak involving achievement text and a video sent anonymously to GameVideos, every single reveal about Sonic 4 has come from…Sonic Retro. If we were concerned about exclusivity, we would be actively hocking the fact that these leaks came from us–”Come to Sonic Retro, where we can even beat the press!”–and would have no reason to pull discussion at all. Indeed, the fact that we did not do this seems to upset people.

The fact of the matter is that as a staff, we respect this franchise a bit more than that. I understand in a way that very few people can that there are many people upset over this game in the same way many people are excited for this game. As an administrator, I have read over 10,000 posts (yes, every single one!) concerning the Sonic Retro membership’s feeling on Sonic 4, in addition to other forums, blogs, gaming media and sources. I can articulate every positive and negative argument about the game in painful detail, because I have had to listen to people on both poles yelling in IRC channels, chat rooms and instant messages. It’s to a point where I haven’t even bothered giving my opinion publicly because I have been accused of being a Sonic 4 cheerleader and someone determined to see the game fail within 15 minutes of each other.

Regardless of your opinion on the game, though, I want to make one thing very clear: the people you think you are one-upping or hurting when leaks happen are not the people they are hurting. The fact of the matter is that Dimps or Iizuka is not really going to feel the repercussions of your blistering critique of the reuse of the Sonic Rush engine or your mocking of Mad Gear Zone as “Rehash of a Rehash Zone”–at least, not yet, anyway. The people you ARE hurting–the members of Sega of America and Sega of Europe who have reached out to the community and its sites–are the very people who are trying to make sure that your voices do eventually get heard by the developers, and that’s the real irony of all this. It is amazing at this point that Sega has decided NOT to throw their hands in the air and ignore us.  To say “oh, well Sega deserves this” is incredibly selfish and not sticking it to the man–at all. You can’t complain that the Sonic series has been an abused workhorse–something that for the record, I agree with–and then spit in the hand of the people reaching out to try to make it NOT SUCK. This isn’t going to happen overnight, guys. Sonic 4 isn’t going to magically be everything to everyone, nor could it be in all honesty. However, it CAN be improved, and to see people turn away from that to go with emotions of hate and spite really galls me both as an administrator and a fan of Sega.

With that being said, we do have a plan for how to handle Sonic 4 in the future, and we will eventually take off the current embargo on discussion. However, that can only happen if we have the cooperation of this community, and right now there seems to be more people who believe they are “entitled” to fucking things up. Protip: you don’t. I have tried to say this in the past with multiple warnings in the Sonic 4 thread and two Shark Week suspension sprees, but it seems the message didn’t get across. I did a faux-threat that upset people but the message didn’t get across. I pull discussion altogether…and the message isn’t getting across, as surprise, I’m a member of  most of the same places this community is doing their bitching in. Understand that pulling discussion was pretty much the last thing anyone wanted to do, and we tried to take as many steps as we could to prevent it, but we felt it necessary to help minimize the impact of the video leaks.

TLDR version

Quote
That’s why, when Sonic 4 was formally announced, Sega approached us in the hopes of working with us to help them.

Quote
The people you ARE hurting–the members of Sega of America and Sega of Europe who have reached out to the community and its sites–are the very people who are trying to make sure that your voices do eventually get heard by the developers, and that’s the real irony of all this.

Quote
You can’t complain that the Sonic series has been an abused workhorse–something that for the record, I agree with–and then spit in the hand of the people reaching out to try to make it NOT SUCK.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Waffle on April 05, 2010, 07:37:27 am
Sonic fans ruined the franchise, nice.

Thanks Sonic Retro and others!
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Orta on April 05, 2010, 07:55:01 am
1) If they were listening to the fanbase no game would come out. Nobody will ever be satisfied. It is Sonic, after all.
2) Hurt Arch Angel UK? Hah!
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Happy Cat on April 05, 2010, 08:05:04 am
Quote from: "Orta"
1) If they were listening to the fanbase no game would come out. Nobody will ever be satisfied. It is Sonic, after all.
2) Hurt Arch Angel UK? Hah!

RubyEclipse is a very nice person.  You shouldn't want to hurt him.  Pretend AAUK doesn't exist and just think about Ruby.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Aki-at on April 05, 2010, 08:21:02 am
How can you ignore the feedback from AAUK as he is part of one half of the group that gives back feedback?

I am not convienced, Sonic Team/Iizuka has not listened now and have not listened in the past to SEGA America or Europe (Werehog is a bad idea? Naaaah even though every section of SEGA told them, Sonic Team thought he was a good idea) and even if they listened, what sort of attention is SEGA giving the series? Sonic the Hedgehog 4 should be massive, SEGA's biggest game of the year but as it stands, there are several games that are of a much higher quality and budget and Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is just not the product SEGA should be aiming for and with Sonic Team/Iizuka at the helm, it will never be the product it should be.

TL: DR STRANGE MINECART
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Featuring STRANGE MINECART
Post by: TimmiT on April 05, 2010, 08:45:47 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
To those who watched the credits, is Jun Senoue the only music composer listed? Or are there other names.
It's no longer on Youtube, but I think Jun was the only one listed.
Also, after the credits it showed a silhouette of [spoiler:ao5llpmm]Metal Sonic[/spoiler:ao5llpmm].
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: STORM! on April 05, 2010, 09:23:43 am
WTH? It's a page of the Bible!!! lol

 However, I have read every piece of this message, and have not get the point.

 What's the point? He got pissed off 'cause his forum member has leaked Sonic 4 videos? People are bashing Sega West?

 LOLOLOLOL!!!


 Iizuka is the reason! He is the one who are, still ruining every Sonic Team franchise!

Shadow The Hedgehog= pure shit
Sonic Rivals= shitty
Mario & Sonic= pretty shitty
Nights 2= a tragedy
Sonic 4= there is no help!
Nights remake= big fail...

 This guy don't know how to do games. He has no feelings! He can't do this job! His games are not fun and has no love. Iizuka is a kind of a robot, mechanical person, only doing his job by his personal "technical agenda".

 I hate him!!!


 About Sonic Retro, whatever... I don't go there anymore. I primaly care about Sega, not Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 09:39:08 am
Honestly, how can anyone say that the fans are hurting the franchise? SEGA is the holder of this said franchise and they make their choices. Fans never asked for a alpha version of a game. SEGA is the one that published it early.

I think its great that SEGA wants feedback for their games, but I never heard anyone say they wanted Sonic 4 to be the way it was. What happen to all this feedback? To me it sounds like SEGA is trying to 'shut the mouths' of fans by suggesting they are listening to them. Giving them the treatment that they matter, means less negative posts on the internet.

In the end of the day, SEGA have to prove themselves with the Sonic franchise and they have had years and years to do and have failed horribly. Do I want SEGA to make an incredible Sonic game? Yes. Are they going to? Doubtful.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Happy Cat on April 05, 2010, 09:40:09 am
Quote from: "STORM!"
WTH? It's a page of the Bible!!! lol

 However, I have read every piece of this message, and have not get the point.

 What's the point? He got pissed off 'cause his forum member has leaked Sonic 4 videos? People are bashing Sega West?

 LOLOLOLOL!!!


Iizuka is the reason! He is the one who are, still ruining every Sonic Team franchise!

Shadow The Hedgehog= pure shit
Sonic Rivals= shitty
Mario & Sonic= pretty shitty
Nights 2= a tragedy
Sonic 4= there is no help!
Nights remake= big fail...

 This guy don't know how to do games. He has no feelings! He can't do this job! His games are not fun and has no love. Iizuka is a kind of a robot, mechanical person, only doing his job by his personal "technical agenda".

 I hate him!!!


 About Sonic Retro, whatever... I don't go there anymore. I primaly care about Sega, not Sonic.

(http://http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/nightsqa_iizuka.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 09:43:44 am
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "STORM!"
WTH? It's a page of the Bible!!! lol

 However, I have read every piece of this message, and have not get the point.

 What's the point? He got pissed off 'cause his forum member has leaked Sonic 4 videos? People are bashing Sega West?

 LOLOLOLOL!!!


Iizuka is the reason! He is the one who are, still ruining every Sonic Team franchise!

Shadow The Hedgehog= pure shit
Sonic Rivals= shitty
Mario & Sonic= pretty shitty
Nights 2= a tragedy
Sonic 4= there is no help!
Nights remake= big fail...

 This guy don't know how to do games. He has no feelings! He can't do this job! His games are not fun and has no love. Iizuka is a kind of a robot, mechanical person, only doing his job by his personal "technical agenda".

 I hate him!!!


 About Sonic Retro, whatever... I don't go there anymore. I primaly care about Sega, not Sonic.

(http://http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/nightsqa_iizuka.jpg)
(http://http://i41.tinypic.com/34igv7p.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: ImSmartUrDum on April 05, 2010, 10:34:43 am
What did he have to do with the Nights Remake?  That was outsourced to an overseas development team...
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Happy Cat on April 05, 2010, 10:36:52 am
Quote from: "ImSmartUrDum"
What did he have to do with the Nights Remake?  That was outsourced to an overseas development team...

Iizuka was head of Sonic Team USA.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Orta on April 05, 2010, 10:57:40 am
Quote from: "George"
Honestly, how can anyone say that the fans are hurting the franchise? SEGA is the holder of this said franchise and they make their choices. Fans never asked for a alpha version of a game. SEGA is the one that published it early.

That's Microsoft policy, actually. Every XBLA game you'll see in the coming months is available in some form on PartnerNet.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 12:57:49 pm
I was not talking about partnernet leaks, I was talking more about releasing Sonic 06 in the state that it was. Fans did not ask for that, they did not ask for a ton of new add on characters or a 'real' setting.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Orta on April 05, 2010, 01:12:21 pm
Actually, from what I see in Sonic fan sites every once in a while... They seem to actually want complex storylines and characters. The younger fanbase anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 01:54:04 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Actually, from what I see in Sonic fan sites every once in a while... They seem to actually want complex storylines and characters. The younger fanbase anyway.
Yes, they are not human though.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 05, 2010, 06:07:04 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Actually, from what I see in Sonic fan sites every once in a while... They seem to actually want complex storylines and characters. The younger fanbase anyway.

Thats exactly why Sega needs to stop listening to those beastiality loving, brain dead freaks (who will buy Asbestos if it had Sonic on it anyway), and start making games that aren't shit.

I don't see how the fanbase can be blamed for consistently under-par Sonic games for just about a decade, maybe the development team or the management is just doing a bad job? Did they consider that?
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 05, 2010, 08:06:07 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Orta"
Actually, from what I see in Sonic fan sites every once in a while... They seem to actually want complex storylines and characters. The younger fanbase anyway.

Thats exactly why Sega needs to stop listening to those beastiality loving, brain dead freaks (who will buy Asbestos if it had Sonic on it anyway), and start making games that aren't shit.

I don't see how the fanbase can be blamed for consistently under-par Sonic games for just about a decade, maybe the development team or the management is just doing a bad job? Did they consider that?

This is exactly what I have been saying for a very long time now.

The biggest reason Sonic is failing so horribly now is because SEGA/Sonic Team listen to the fanbase too much. SEGA and Sonic Team simply just do not understand that there are multiple types of fans that the franchise has picked up in the nearly 19 years of history it has had.

I have met people who do not like any of the games, but love the cartoons. I have met people who think Rouge the Bat is the best character in the series or that Silver needs his own game, or that Tails should get married to Maria Robotnik who should come back to life or that Charmy actually is a good character.

The fanbase is so out of whack and divided that they will actually never be able to "Fix the series" for everyone. I mean, how could they? Some people want just Sonic playable, some want all of them playable. Some want Sonic to be shorter and fatter, some want him taller and thinner. Some want hyper-realistic graphics, some are not retarded.

Another major reason as to why they franchise keeps disappointing is because Sonic Team is just not a very capable developer, which they have constantly proven. Mix this in with all of these seemingly endless complaints and needs and you have possibly the most confused game developers on the face of the planet.

But my final point is that Sonic Team just does not seem to have the passion they once had. Not only are they not making something they like, they are seemingly bored with the franchise, trying new things that clash horrendously with everything they have done prior.

To an extent, Sonic Unleashed tried to be it's own thing, it had at least some passion in it. They did somethings new that did not clash with the franchise, and while it no doubt had a lot of issues (most having to do with Sonic Team being a shitty developer), I thought it was a pretty good game. I am sad to admit I think this is the best Sonic Team will ever be able to do anymore with the franchise. It is time to pass the torch to some team that is actually capable of making a game in the style they feel is right and while still listening to the fanbase for support over ideas. Of course I am talking of AM2!
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 05, 2010, 08:35:31 pm
AM2 Sonic, I can see it now...
"I'm looking for some rings."
"Heyyyyy brooooooo!" <-the new Big the Cat
"Welcome to the Green Hill Zone. Get Ready!"

I'm the type of fan who loved the Genesis games as a kid, thought AoStH was hilarious and that SatAM was too serious (it's SONIC for godsake, not Secret of NIMH) and read the comics until they became to full of themselves (check out an angry letter I wrote to the final Super Special in which Archie edited out my complaint of them not utilizing the plots of the games more often). So yeah, SA2 was leading towards furry fanfic plots that climaxed in Sonic '06. Unleashed and Sonic 4 are steps in the right direction.

Please no more emotional plots! Sonic vs. Eggman. Thats all they need. I was relieved that Unleashed did not feature a scene of Sonic crying due to his predicament.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 05, 2010, 08:58:25 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Please no more emotional plots! Sonic vs. Eggman. Thats all they need. I was relieved that Unleashed did not feature a scene of Sonic crying due to his predicament.

Sonic vs Robotnik actually. I hate Eggman!  :P

Anyway I used to read the comics until about issue 50, then it stopped being just fun monthly adventures with Sonic and turned into an attempt to be really serious and full of bullshit. They even had all this weird mystical and supernatural rubbish thrown in to try to make this deep backstory or something but it just ended up sounding silly, even to an 11 year old.
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on April 05, 2010, 09:45:16 pm
I don't understand how people can associate SA2's plot with furry fanfics. Sonic 06, sure, but SA2? Just because it had cutscenes and tried to put together a story doesn't mean the game will suffer.

Lots of SEGA games do the same thing. The cutscenes from SA2 are no different in tone and complexity than the cutscenes in House of the Dead 2 for example. They're "serious", but at the same time, they are silly and fun!

What about Fantasy Zone? Which is possibly the most ridiculously overwritten series in the history of games. (Which is part of the appeal for me actually. Pretty funny. :lol: ) Nobody really complained about that.

So why can't Sonic join in on the fun too? :cry:
Title: Re: Sonic 4 and how SEGA America / Europe want your help
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 06, 2010, 05:52:02 am
Oh I agree that SA2 had very fun cutscenes, though furry fanficery began to rear it's ugly head with a hinted relationship between Knux and Rouge plus Shadow's "Who am I?" persona which came to fruition in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Eggman and his Grandfather saved the plot, IMO. You can never have enough Robotnik family members.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 06, 2010, 06:04:30 am
Sonic 4 preview up on Eurogamer, it's quite positive sounding

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sonic ... -1-preview (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-preview)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 06, 2010, 07:22:00 am
Reactions to Sonic 4

(http://http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2010/01/500x_259bf021.jpg)

Iizuka: =D

Everyone else: =|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 06, 2010, 07:54:57 am
The guy in the scarf looks like he belongs in Bayonetta.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on April 06, 2010, 12:45:54 pm
You know, having read Sonic Retro's post on the leaks and thinking about all the comments on this game, one single sentence can be applied to this situation:
Sega is always wrong no matter what they do about Sonic.

They are wrong because they shouldn't do this, they are wrong because they shouldn't do that, they shouldn't include anything that someone, somewhere on the web might not like at all.

Put yourselves in the shoes of a developer and tell me if you didn't find it a little infuriating that after giving a new 2D games that there is still something wrong because they did something that someone might not like?

Here's the reality folks, you can't possibly please everyone.

I'm not pleased with Sonic 4, but I am certain that others fans might like them and I don't think any less of them for that. I don't think any less of people who bought Sonic Rush, even though I never liked it.

I, on the other hand, have been frowned upon for liking certain Sonic games, Sonic storylines, as bad as they are, and I'm a Sonic verteran, but it appears that sometimes in the Sonic fanbase, respect is a one way street.

Back to Sega being wrong, it's not helping the Sonic franchise either, if you as a fan and a critic is the first to stiffle any creative input.

Look at Sonic & The Black Knight's early reactions, since it was a Storybook game, it could've sparked some healthy debate on the Legend of King Arthur and Excalibur and everything around it, but no, the first thing that pops up is that Sega is wrong because they shouldn't give Sonic a talking sword, as if there is some canonical Sonic Bible that says he shouldn't have a sword, or a car, or be a werewolf. If that's the case, then you are screwed, because Sonic is what Sega wants him to be and as their IP they are entitled to do what they see fit with it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on April 06, 2010, 01:52:41 pm
 LOL!! WHAT?? AM2 doing Sonic?

 lolololololol....


 Maybe you have not yet noticed that, but even AM2 is not the same anymore. They are not the team who did Shenmue or Virtua Fighter or everything else. They can't handle Sonic.

 They are having so many issues with VF5, and look at Shining Force Cross!? I have played it(finally) and it's pure crap and simple. The game is very near to Slash Out, a 10 years old game...

 Maybe, MAYBE, Nagoshi can put Sonic on the trails again. We all know he will not do that. He also does not like Sonic at all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 06, 2010, 01:56:54 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
 LOL!! WHAT?? AM2 doing Sonic?

 lolololololol....


 Maybe you have not yet noticed that, but even AM2 is not the same anymore. They are not the team who did Shenmue or Virtua Fighter or everything else. They can't handle Sonic.

 They are having so many issues with VF5, and look at Shining Force Cross!? I have played it(finally) and it's pure crap and simple. The game is very near to Slash Out, a 10 years old game...

 Maybe, MAYBE, Nagoshi can put Sonic on the trails again. We all know he will not do that. He also does not like Sonic at all.
Sorry STORM! But you like Sonic games, so its hard to take your AM2 complaints seriously. VF5 had high scores with both fans and media, Sonic hasn't had that since Sonic Adventure 2. Difference.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on April 06, 2010, 02:34:42 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
 LOL!! WHAT?? AM2 doing Sonic?

 lolololololol....


 Maybe you have not yet noticed that, but even AM2 is not the same anymore. They are not the team who did Shenmue or Virtua Fighter or everything else. They can't handle Sonic.

 They are having so many issues with VF5, and look at Shining Force Cross!? I have played it(finally) and it's pure crap and simple. The game is very near to Slash Out, a 10 years old game...

 Maybe, MAYBE, Nagoshi can put Sonic on the trails again. We all know he will not do that. He also does not like Sonic at all.

WTF!

sorry but AM2 is untouchable

but even though i believe sonic games should remain with Sonic Team , after what they did with Sonic Unleashed there is hope .
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 06, 2010, 03:05:15 pm
AM2 can essentially do no wrong (I have yet to play an AM2 game that I hate), problem is it has been a while since they have done a huge awesomely excellent game. Shenmue 1&2 were awesome, VF5 was a (good) kick in the balls, but since then it has been lots of little bits of awesome (arcade games, etc.). Check out their wikipedia page and look at their PS2 offerings compared to PS3. After Burner Climax will be the biggest bit of "awesome" AM2 has delivered to home consoles in a long while, despite being a 2006 game.

My hope if that the rumored Yu Suzuki Move (and possibly Natal?) game is an awesome port of a recent AM2 game OR perhaps Virtua Fighter related. I also hope for another Shenmue within the next 5 years.  :P

Anywho... we were talking about Sonic 4. I'm still excited to play it.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on April 06, 2010, 04:56:01 pm
http://gamerlimit.com/2010/03/sonic-4-a ... ever-made/ (http://gamerlimit.com/2010/03/sonic-4-apparently-is-going-to-have-the-most-unfun-level-ever-made/)


Still excited?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 06, 2010, 05:03:36 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
http://gamerlimit.com/2010/03/sonic-4-apparently-is-going-to-have-the-most-unfun-level-ever-made/


Still excited?

We've seen that video many times now -.- don't have rub it in even more.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on April 06, 2010, 05:11:45 pm
Whoops sorry, haven't really looked on this site properly for a while.

Maybe it'll play okay when it's finished?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 06, 2010, 05:25:44 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Whoops sorry, haven't really looked on this site properly for a while.

Maybe it'll play okay when it's finished?

Sonic Team.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)(http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)

[spoiler:3k6pws92]The funniest part is how Shadi removed STRANGE MINECART from the topic title out of anger but will still buy it day one.[/spoiler:3k6pws92]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 06, 2010, 05:55:42 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
You know, having read Sonic Retro's post on the leaks and thinking about all the comments on this game, one single sentence can be applied to this situation:
Sega is always wrong no matter what they do about Sonic.

They are wrong because they shouldn't do this, they are wrong because they shouldn't do that, they shouldn't include anything that someone, somewhere on the web might not like at all.

Put yourselves in the shoes of a developer and tell me if you didn't find it a little infuriating that after giving a new 2D games that there is still something wrong because they did something that someone might not like?

Here's the reality folks, you can't possibly please everyone.

I'm not pleased with Sonic 4, but I am certain that others fans might like them and I don't think any less of them for that. I don't think any less of people who bought Sonic Rush, even though I never liked it.

I, on the other hand, have been frowned upon for liking certain Sonic games, Sonic storylines, as bad as they are, and I'm a Sonic verteran, but it appears that sometimes in the Sonic fanbase, respect is a one way street.

Back to Sega being wrong, it's not helping the Sonic franchise either, if you as a fan and a critic is the first to stiffle any creative input.

Look at Sonic & The Black Knight's early reactions, since it was a Storybook game, it could've sparked some healthy debate on the Legend of King Arthur and Excalibur and everything around it, but no, the first thing that pops up is that Sega is wrong because they shouldn't give Sonic a talking sword, as if there is some canonical Sonic Bible that says he shouldn't have a sword, or a car, or be a werewolf. If that's the case, then you are screwed, because Sonic is what Sega wants him to be and as their IP they are entitled to do what they see fit with it.

I think people are getting confused with 'something not everyone likes' and a 'cut and dry piece of shit game'.

It has nothing to do with pleasing everyone, and we aren't all complaining just because we personally don't like a part of the game, or dislike something trivial. It's that they are fucking up things that they really shouldn't be at this point. Take a look at that mine cart video, it MIGHT have been a nice idea in concept to throw in as a little part of one or two acts, but of course Sonic Team doesn't do that. They make it an entire level and it looks like they implemented it horribly. This isn't just me saying 'Sonic shouldn't be in a mine cart', this is me saying 'the game doesn't look very fun'. Thats not all, things like the Homing attack will almost certainly be detrimental to the game, and if not it's certainly not in the spirit of the classic games which was the whole point of this release.

It's the same with the Were-hog. First of all, that was just a fucking stupid concept to begin with, even the name is retarded, but I would have forgiven it if they made it fun or implemented it well. If it played like Bayonetta for example I would love it. But it doesn't, it plays like hammered shit with the single worst QTEs in existence and terrible combat, mixed in with some horrendous platforming. Thankfully the daytime levels were actually pretty good for the most part.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 06, 2010, 08:28:00 pm
http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/493 ... ntry146152 (http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/4933-leaked-sonic-4-avatar-clothing/page__pid__146152__st__0&#entry146152)

Sonic avatar clothing =  :lol: lol

the fact that it is a free REWARD for completing tasks within the game =  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 06, 2010, 08:56:23 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
the fact that it is a free REWARD for completing tasks within the game =  :afroman:

Now thats Avatar stuff done right!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 06, 2010, 09:30:06 pm
So fucking creepy.

Too bad only your friends will see how creepy you are and not strangers ;(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 07, 2010, 08:06:18 am
I have a full body Sonic Halloween costume from 1992. It looks a lot like the avatar item, but is about half the size of my (current) body. I tried it on last year and looked like a child molesting cosplayer.

Actually, one could wear it in a SASAR race and look like a complete tool. Extra points for a Billy Hatcher hat AND Sonic suit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: TimmiT on April 07, 2010, 08:09:29 am
Quote from: "George"
So fucking creepy.

Too bad only your friends will see how creepy you are and not strangers ;(
Actually, you can use your Avatar in Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing. (and Joyride if that ever gets released)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 07, 2010, 08:17:05 am
Quote from: "TimmiT"
Quote from: "George"
So fucking creepy.

Too bad only your friends will see how creepy you are and not strangers ;(
Actually, you can use your Avatar in Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing. (and Joyride if that ever gets released)
True, now I regret not getting SASASR on 360. I would just drift and scream "WOAH" in my sonic voice... or even "I'm Sonic, the worlds fastest hedgehog."
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 07, 2010, 09:09:59 am
I've yet to chat in SASAR online play, but once I have my Sonic suit I plan to ask others if they are worried.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 07, 2010, 05:01:39 pm
Same here, I had my headset connected..... played 2 races last night. Turned it off. Really, no need to chat with strangers that might be furries.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 07, 2010, 07:11:34 pm
Neogaf is drinking the haterade

(http://http://i39.tinypic.com/2mg9ggj.jpg)

Iiuzka Edition

(http://http://i41.tinypic.com/33wqvxw.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 07, 2010, 07:57:09 pm
Oh lord. It's shit like that that makes me glad I'm not a Neogaf member.

I love how a hater went to the effort to make that. Like, I hate tons of things, but I mostly just ignore them rather than waste my time making elaborate photoshop images.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 08, 2010, 05:35:35 am
new one

(http://http://i43.tinypic.com/of7r80.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on April 10, 2010, 01:32:03 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh lord. It's shit like that that makes me glad I'm not a Neogaf member.

I love how a hater went to the effort to make that. Like, I hate tons of things, but I mostly just ignore them rather than waste my time making elaborate photoshop images.


 I don't do it either, but this time is different.

 This time Sega deserves all the kind of hate from all of the world! I wanna see every piece of hate coming around the world and hitting Sega and Sonic Team deeply!

 Phantasy Star is my favorite series ever, but I'm fine with the sequels, since they are not really related with the original series; Sonic 4 is a sequel!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 11, 2010, 03:39:17 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh lord. It's shit like that that makes me glad I'm not a Neogaf member.

I love how a hater went to the effort to make that. Like, I hate tons of things, but I mostly just ignore them rather than waste my time making elaborate photoshop images.

Yep, I've all but given up hope for that thread. There are just too many people there who don't even want to discuss about the game anymore. They have more fun just jerking each other off with this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 11, 2010, 07:51:02 am
Quote from: "STORM!"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh lord. It's shit like that that makes me glad I'm not a Neogaf member.

I love how a hater went to the effort to make that. Like, I hate tons of things, but I mostly just ignore them rather than waste my time making elaborate photoshop images.


 I don't do it either, but this time is different.

 This time Sega deserves all the kind of hate from all of the world! I wanna see every piece of hate coming around the world and hitting Sega and Sonic Team deeply!

 Phantasy Star is my favorite series ever, but I'm fine with the sequels, since they are not really related with the original series; Sonic 4 is a sequel!

That's just psycho talk. Makes you sound like a terrorist or serial killer. It's just a video game company working on a game that none of us have even played yet.

The fact that Sonic is heading back to 2D-style play is a good thing. Sonic goes 3D, Sonic Team gets hate. Sonic gets worse (Shadow, '06), Sonic Team gets hate. Sonic goes back to 2D, Sonic Team gets hate. At this point the fanbase is just a bunch of whiny fuckers who don't deserve a new game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 11, 2010, 10:57:04 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote from: "STORM!"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh lord. It's shit like that that makes me glad I'm not a Neogaf member.

I love how a hater went to the effort to make that. Like, I hate tons of things, but I mostly just ignore them rather than waste my time making elaborate photoshop images.


 I don't do it either, but this time is different.

 This time Sega deserves all the kind of hate from all of the world! I wanna see every piece of hate coming around the world and hitting Sega and Sonic Team deeply!

 Phantasy Star is my favorite series ever, but I'm fine with the sequels, since they are not really related with the original series; Sonic 4 is a sequel!

That's just psycho talk. Makes you sound like a terrorist or serial killer. It's just a video game company working on a game that none of us have even played yet.

The fact that Sonic is heading back to 2D-style play is a good thing. Sonic goes 3D, Sonic Team gets hate. Sonic gets worse (Shadow, '06), Sonic Team gets hate. Sonic goes back to 2D, Sonic Team gets hate. At this point the fanbase is just a bunch of whiny fuckers who don't deserve a new game.

Or maybe Sonic Team is the one of the most fucking incompetent developers on the face of the Earth and they mostly get hate because their products range from okay to horrific wastes of money?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 11, 2010, 11:57:43 am
It doesn't help that almost all of SEGA is superior to Sonic Team. And it is mostly their own fault they suck (IE. STRANGE MINECART)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on April 11, 2010, 02:07:01 pm
Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 11, 2010, 02:25:49 pm
Yeah, green eyes and Eggman. Unless the submenu font has been leaked.

THE PLONKERS USED BOLD! GRARGH!!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 11, 2010, 02:47:17 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?

Search for STRANGE MINECART.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 11, 2010, 03:57:14 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?

Search for STRANGE MINECART.

Also search for "one act out of twelve that is being played incorrectly in a leaked video and thankfully has no bottomless pits and would probably take only four minutes for a competent player to get through"

I recommend Bing for the above.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 11, 2010, 04:48:02 pm
Why are Barry and Sharky so defensive of this game? I really don't understand it, there are quite a few things we don't like about it and it's not the Green Eyes.

You make it sound like we are whining about the most minor things in the world, while ignoring the fact that we all think the game looks like it's not going ot be fun at at all and has just been mishandled the whole way.

Frankly, you guys are acting worse than the neogaffers, just on the opposite scale. Rather than acknowledging our problems you are personally insulting us by calling us whiners and pretending all our concerns are stupid and that we are complaining about Sonic's eye colour.

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
Sonic the Hedgehog is a multi-million dollar franchise despite the relatively poor quality of the series. It is easily the most important franchise in Sega's history and massively affects their image. When it comes time to make a direct sequel to the best selling and most loved games in the franchise, it shouldn't be a Downloadable game made by the lowest bidders. Aki-at made a great example by comparing it to KOF XIII a while ago. King of Fighters isn't as popular as Sonic and SNK isn't a tenth as wealthy or well staffed as Sega is, and yet they are pulling out all the stops to make KOF XIII look and play amazing because it's their flagship series.
This isn't saying the game will be BAD, but the graphics and the format do look like they were chosen to keep the costs low rather than provide a great experience and carry the legacy.

2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games
Since the beginning of development, Sega have been pushing that this game will be a return to the classic gameplay. Unfortunately it looks like it's anything but. Some levels look good and a lot of it looks fine, but the homing attack really does make a massive difference to gameplay. It totally removes precision jumping from attacking enemies or using enemies to bounce to new areas. In fact the director even said it was included to make the game faster and add speed. I'm worried, and expecting that this speed will be at the expense of platforming.
There are other problems like sonic losing his roll off a ramp (i'm thinking/hopping this is just a glitch, because I doub't even sonic team is that stupi-
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Next-Gen_Box_Art.JPG)
On second thought...)

3) Strange MineCart
OADKggasdf;a sdfsa;gjfg it's only one level!

Yes, but hear me out; this level is indicative of why Sonic Team is so disliked amongst us, they just feel the need to throw in as many gimmicks as possible, regardless of if they are actually fun or not. Telekinesis and Hovercrafts in Sonic 06, Worst QTEs ever concieved and Medal Collectin' in Sonic Unleashed, and now it's analogue controls that look migraine inducing and not fun in the slightest for Strange Minecart (and although it's just one level, it matters. Have you seen how much negative press it's recieved?) and all the bonus stages. This isn't the classic Sonic we were expecting and promised.

4) Overall design
The game is recycling a lot of stuff from the old games, I guess in lieu of the fun gameplay from the old games they want to trick up by including old bosses and baddies. This isn't a major issue, but it just smacks of them pandering to our nostalgia without actually adding much new.
I'll also include here the bizarre art choices like the size ratio between Sonic and Robotnik and Sonic. The model looks a bit stupid too IMO, green eyes notwithstanding.


At the end of the day, the game just doesn't look like it's going to be much fun at all to me, and it certainly doesn't look anything like an old Sonic Game should play like.

I am getting really tired of having to be the bad guy on this forum because I'm not falling in love with every Sonic related game that is released. If you disagree with those points, please do say so, but don't just act the blind fanboy and say i'm complaining for no reason. I had reasons for disliking SSR but got ignored because apparantly it's okay for Sega to rip-off Nintendo games wholesale, but when Namco does it they are a bad company that's fallen from grace. (http://http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6554#p6554)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 11, 2010, 04:52:07 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Also search for "one act out of twelve that is being played incorrectly in a leaked video and thankfully has no bottomless pits and would probably take only four minutes for a competent player to get through"

I recommend Bing for the above.

I recommend the below

[youtube:1dx6wplt]1TZERN3EEKg[/youtube:1dx6wplt]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on April 11, 2010, 05:15:30 pm
^^^^^^
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

but really I doubt that the dude that was playing that level had any idea what he was doing.
It also seemed a pretty raw level. With some tweaking it could be actually fun. These are betas running. That's why we weren't supposed to see these gameplays.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 11, 2010, 05:42:20 pm
Did you ever get around to playing SASAR, MadeMan? Not "having a go", just curious.

I'm defensive over the game as I'm willing to give it a chance. I do not consider screens and a few leaked videos enough to go on to hate the game. Until I've played it, I stand firmly in the "looks fun, I have no complaints until I've played it" camp. From what I've seen here, at Sonic Stadium and NeoGAF is a bunch of nitpicking to the point that even the smallest things have been built up to "OMFG A MINE CART ACT WILL RUIN THE GAME!!!". It isn't a werehog, it isn't a broken engine and Silver, it isn't a team dynamic, it isn't guns and vehicles. It's a goofy on rails stage no different from Ice Cap's intro or the first zone of the Master System's Sonic 2 (which was also a mine cart, but with annoying death pits).

Anywho, to go point by point on your Sonic 4 qualms:

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
And it IS a pretty big deal as evidenced by the media's attention as well as the internet explosion of discussion. Being "download only" does not equal "not a big deal". While Sonic 4 is a direct sequel to a major Sega franchise, it is also a 2D platformer in a world of Heavy Rain's, Call of Duty's and Arkham Asylum's. The retail world of games have changed greatly since the Dreamcast days. You really don't see that many smaller games given a retail release (unless we're talking the Wii).

We could have gotten the game two ways: Wait a bit longer until all three episodes are complete and get a retail release, or get Episode 1 in a few months and have the rest of the game by early 2011. Sega is playing it safe, and rightfully so. Going episodic does a few things: it allows for user input to affect upcoming episodes (as revealed by Retro), it also saves on production costs for pressing discs and printing packaging and will amount to a less expensive game. Somebody scorned by Unleashed may not buy a $50 retail release of Sonic 4, but a $5-10 download purchase of episode 1 (with a demo to DL as well) would be much easier to swallow.

2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games.
Sonic 1 was different from 2, 2 was different from 3 and 3 is different from 4. Is 4 the most different from the previous three? Well of course it is, it is coming 16 years after the last game. We have a graphical upgrade, physics translated for 2.5D play and a new attack. Despite those changes, it is still the same game. The same rules apply, the same objects have the same effects on the player and the same Sonic trademarks are there. Did you want a Mega Man 9-like Sonic 4? I sure didn't. I've played enough fan games over the past 15 years emulating the idea of a Sonic 4. Some were fun, some were shit.

3) Strange MineCart
See my first paragraph.

4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on April 11, 2010, 06:23:32 pm
Sonic 4 is going to suck. The music is pretty fucking bad already, I can't see how you still have your hopes up. Iizuka is involved for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 11, 2010, 06:26:26 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

You are making it out people like me and Sanus do not have any issues with New Super Mario Brothers, but WE do, infact, I don't like it much at all.

The only difference is people are willing to forgive Mario because lol it's Nintendo, but not Sonic. However those people do not visit this site.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 11, 2010, 06:38:25 pm
All this would make for a great episode of the SEGAbits Swingin' Report Show.

And by great I mean an episode filled with yelling and swearing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on April 11, 2010, 06:41:00 pm
I'm sorry that I'm not that bothered by half of the reasons people want to hate this game. The mine kart level did looks a bit shit but everything else I saw looked just almost on par with classic sonic.

And yes I said Almost on par but then again most of you have gone out and baught games like Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Adventure 1/2 which couldnt be further from classic Sonic games. (and bar Sonic Adventure 1 none of them were that good.)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 11, 2010, 06:42:37 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Did you ever get around to playing SASAR, MadeMan? Not "having a go", just curious.

I got the demo, but was really annoyed to find that there was some glitch in it that meant the drift button was stuck at all times. I thought it was my controller but it worked for every other game. It really made the demo unplayable, which was a shame since i really wanted to see what it was like.

Quote
I'm defensive over the game as I'm willing to give it a chance. I do not consider screens and a few leaked videos enough to go on to hate the game. Until I've played it, I stand firmly in the "looks fun, I have no complaints until I've played it" camp. From what I've seen here, at Sonic Stadium and NeoGAF is a bunch of nitpicking to the point that even the smallest things have been built up to "OMFG A MINE CART ACT WILL RUIN THE GAME!!!". It isn't a werehog, it isn't a broken engine and Silver, it isn't a team dynamic, it isn't guns and vehicles. It's a goofy on rails stage no different from Ice Cap's intro or the first zone of the Master System's Sonic 2 (which was also a mine cart, but with annoying death pits).

I'm willing to give it a shot too, but when I see something that I don't like I'll make a note of it. At first it wasn't a big deal, but the little things have been building up for me to the point where it looks like I wont enjoy the game.

It's not just one problem thats killing it for me, it's the combination of several.

Quote
Anywho, to go point by point on your Sonic 4 qualms:

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
And it IS a pretty big deal as evidenced by the media's attention as well as the internet explosion of discussion. Being "download only" does not equal "not a big deal". While Sonic 4 is a direct sequel to a major Sega franchise, it is also a 2D platformer in a world of Heavy Rain's, Call of Duty's and Arkham Asylum's. The retail world of games have changed greatly since the Dreamcast days. You really don't see that many smaller games given a retail release (unless we're talking the Wii).

We could have gotten the game two ways: Wait a bit longer until all three episodes are complete and get a retail release, or get Episode 1 in a few months and have the rest of the game by early 2011. Sega is playing it safe, and rightfully so. Going episodic does a few things: it allows for user input to affect upcoming episodes (as revealed by Retro), it also saves on production costs for pressing discs and printing packaging and will amount to a less expensive game. Somebody scorned by Unleashed may not buy a $50 retail release of Sonic 4, but a $5-10 download purchase of episode 1 (with a demo to DL as well) would be much easier to swallow.

The fact is, this is Sonic we are talking about, it would sell big even in a 2D format at retail. When you consider that Splosion Man cost 800 points and had about 100 levels in it (not small ones either), it really makes Sonic 4 look pretty lacklustre in my eyes.

I don't have anything against Download games usually, but for something called 'Sonic 4' a game that is meant to be twenty years in the making I have to say it feels like a bit of a copout.

I don't think that sales is too big a deal considering how well NSMB sold on Wii Alone, Sonic 4 on all 3 platforms would almost certainly have been a solid performer. At the end of the day I think it's just Sega wanting to make this as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Maybe thats just me, but thats the impression I've been getting.

Quote
2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games.
Sonic 1 was different from 2, 2 was different from 3 and 3 is different from 4. Is 4 the most different from the previous three? Well of course it is, it is coming 16 years after the last game. We have a graphical upgrade, physics translated for 2.5D play and a new attack. Despite those changes, it is still the same game. The same rules apply, the same objects have the same effects on the player and the same Sonic trademarks are there. Did you want a Mega Man 9-like Sonic 4? I sure didn't. I've played enough fan games over the past 15 years emulating the idea of a Sonic 4. Some were fun, some were shit.

I agree that there were differences between the older games, but the key word was 'fundamental'. I get the feeling that the homing attack can and will change the game at a base level, unlike the changes in the other games. Obviously I haven't played the game yet, but I did need to point that out as it's a big point of concern for me.

Quote
3) Strange MineCart
See my first paragraph.

I think you missed the point though, that this is just an example of why Sonic Team has been screwing up so much with all the games, and why I fear for this one. They feel the need to shoe-horn in these horrible gimmicks instead of just letting the game stand on it's own. IT also goes against the basic principles of Sonic, which was to have the controls as simple as possible. Move and one BUtton, thats it, not motion controls that tilt the screen and make you move. And it's not just the minecart, it's the special stages too.

Quote
4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

I don't mind the baddies coming back so much as the bosses, since they apparantly play the same as well.  But okay, I'll concede this point for now.

Quote
And yes I said Almost on par but then again most of you have gone out and baught games like Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Adventure 1/2 which couldnt be further from classic Sonic games. (and bar Sonic Adventure 1 none of them were that good.)

Yes, bought and regretted buying them (with the exception of the Adventure games which i loved at the time. Unleashed was boderline). Which is why I'm much more cautious about buying this game now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on April 11, 2010, 06:49:07 pm
But at the end of the day it's still the closest thing to a classic Sonic game in 15 years. Dispite it's flaws and faults.

Which means it's a step in the right direction no matter which way you swing it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 11, 2010, 06:58:19 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
But at the end of the day it's still the closest thing to a classic Sonic game in 15 years. Dispite it's flaws and faults.

Which means it's a step in the right direction no matter which way you swing it.

If I were on fire, would throwing acid on me be a step in the right direction because it would put out some of the flames?

If they are just replacing bad 3D games with bad 2D games it's not really a good thing. I'm playing devil's advocate now though.

I agree that it's better than most recent efforts, but I'm not about to ignore the stuff I really don't like because of it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on April 11, 2010, 07:01:37 pm
God, it's like discussing about Star Wars all over again.

Look, it's been almost 20 years since the first Sonic. It is obvious it won't be the same thing. There are new techs and stuff to make it look great. If they just made it 16-bit it would be no better than a fan-edited ROM image.
MegaMan 9/10 is really lame. And NSMB is also a mess. Good thing Sonic Team is making the game look fresh and relying on good old gameplay. Sure it has homing attack, so it will be different. But Spindash also made Sonic 2 different, for better! Maybe the homing attack will be fun to use and stuff.
Most of the things some people are complaining about are subjective and will be sorted out by the time everyone gets to play it.
As for the recycled stuff, as someone already said Mario is using the exact same characters and enemies since ever. So watching some old favorites like the mecha-piranhas will be awesome. At least I like it.

And nobody knows if this is going to be a great of bad game yet. It might end up being the most playable one of the series, imagine that. Probably not, but there's still no way to know. Just wait guys.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 11, 2010, 07:05:27 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
God, it's like discussing about Star Wars all over again.

Look, it's been almost 20 years since the first Sonic. It is obvious it won't be the same thing. There are new techs and stuff to make it look great. If they just made it 16-bit it would be no better than a fan-edited ROM image.
Except nobody is asking for it to be 16 bit...

It would be nice if it was 2D like Muramasa or KOF XIII though, but whatever. The graphics aren't horrible, but they aren't all that special either I think.

As for the rest, I get what you are saying, but we aren't saying it's definitely going to be bad, just that we don't like the look of it at all. I may as well say 'Stop getting excited guys, you haven't even played it yet!'.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on April 11, 2010, 07:10:03 pm
But I havent been excited at all yet! I'm just not ready to write it off either.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 11, 2010, 07:37:34 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
But I havent been excited at all yet! I'm just not ready to write it off either.

Well thats fair enough, I don't mind people getting excited or people getting concerned, I just hate it when either one gets shot down. I want to make clear that I'm not saying the game is going to be shit, just that I'm not liking what I see for a lot of it.

Anyway seems like we are all cool with eachother again, us Sega ner- err Bits, need to stick together.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on April 11, 2010, 07:55:12 pm
(http://http://www.snackspot.org.uk/images/walkersDoritosBitsTwisties.jpg)
yummy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 12, 2010, 04:34:57 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

My biggest issue here is with the bosses. Sonic & Knuckles had you revisiting creations from previous games, sure, but none of them were the actual end of stage fight. Another point is that the pufferfish thing from Marble Garden Zone is used in every level that I have seen from Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Even in the worst of Sonic games, at least each level had different enemies (EDIT: LOL NOT SONIC 06). I mean, I just cannot disregard these details as to me, it just screams that they do not have any passion for the title and barely care as to how it turns out. This would be fine - perfect even - for a side game, but this is Sonic the fucking Hedgehog 4. Completely not acceptable.

This is the exact same issue that came up with NiGHTS Journey of Dreams! It is like, they took a game we all loved and changed a bunch of the basic concepts just to make it more marketable or sumshit. Sonic Team just cannot stick to once concept, that game had tons and tons of really horseshit extras yet when people pointed this stuff out, defenders came up and would say crap like "It has been over ten years since the first game! Be more respectful", in the end it literally even made me like the first game less and I am horrified to think the same will happen with this.

I am not going to downplay the fact that the STRANGE MINECART is the worst thing I ever saw in the whole franchise. I do not know why they needed to add this. Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic Advance 1 both play very good, why could they have not just made games closer to these? Even as a recreation of Sonic 2 and 3, Pocket Adventure has much more original content and ideas that are mainly based around exploration that are better than Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

I just do not know how you guys are cool with all of this. Obviously it is not the worst Sonic game or anything, but that is not saying much when most of the franchise is not even worth playing anymore.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 12, 2010, 07:37:51 am
You just answered your question with the last sentence you wrote. I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm cool with Sonic 4 because it is definitely not looking like the worst Sonic game (gameplay wise, it looks better than anything that came out this gen AND last gen not counting the Dreamcast) and it is the first real effort in getting Sonic back to his roots. Unleashed was a start, Sonic 4 Episode 1 is an even larger step and I have hopes that Episode 2 and 3 will be the biggest movement to get Sonic back to where he should be. The promise of [spoiler:570ms9an]Metal Sonic[/spoiler:570ms9an] in episode 2 as well as the return of [spoiler:570ms9an]Tails and Knuckles in episodes 2 and 3 respectively[/spoiler:570ms9an] gets me excited from both a gameplay and storyline standpoint.

As for the bosses, just as with the badniks, I'm not bothered. They look to have enough of a twist to be a Ver. 2.0 of the vehicle rather than a straight rehash. I wouldn't have the Splash Hill boss any other way. Casino Street boss, I'll admit, is the weakest of the four I've seen in the leaked videos. Lost Labyrinth boss is my favorite of the bunch: a cool little chase, and then the columns attack. Mad Gear, from what I remember, is a return of one of my favorite bosses and the chase was pretty awesome with the bouncing growing mini-Eggmen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 12, 2010, 10:43:50 am
I guess you missed my point then. Just because this is supposedly better than most of the franchise does not mean it is good in my eyes, or most of the people here, ESPECIALLY when it is supposed to be a direct sequel to unarguably one of the greatest game trilogies of all time, if not simply the best. I cannot ever believe why you would ever even try to minimize the impact of crap like STRANGE MINECART or the art style being dreadful.

Basically you are going to say you are alright with anything they do, which is all you have said since it was first shown off, so best we do not continue this. You have probably been saying the same things for years with every release, but I am done wasting my money on the same bullshit promises over and over again on a product most of the staff probably does not even give a shit about. I will not be getting Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I, and the only way I am getting any of these is if the rest of the episodes are miles better and it is part of a compilation disc.

I am glad that you will like it, though. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 12, 2010, 11:44:30 am
Actually, I've been away from the Sonic scene since Heroes (which I bought while in college, so I was hardly paying attention to the series by that point) and didn't get back into Sonic until buying Unleashed 9 months after release. So to assume I've been "saying the same things for years with every release" isn't true.  8-) It's more like I've been coming late to the party since Heroes and by the time I buy the games I know what to expect. The fact that they're at bargain bin prices also helps. Sonic 4 is the first release I've followed this closely since SA2.

I can see why you'd have your opinion, it's just a real shame that you can't see how I could have mine. I'm sorry that one gimmick act out of twelve ruins the game for you and that you find the art style to be dreadful. ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 12, 2010, 12:21:46 pm
Quote
Actually, I've been away from the Sonic scene since Heroes (which I bought while in college, so I was hardly paying attention to the series by that point) and didn't get back into Sonic until buying Unleashed 9 months after release. So to assume I've been "saying the same things for years with every release" isn't true. 8-) It's more like I've been coming late to the party since Heroes and by the time I buy the games I know what to expect. The fact that they're at bargain bin prices also helps. Sonic 4 is the first release I've followed this closely since SA2.

I can see why you'd have your opinion, it's just a real shame that you can't see how I could have mine. I'm sorry that one gimmick act out of twelve ruins the game for you and that you find the art style to be dreadful. ;)

I never once said the rest of the levels were great or even good. I saw most of them, they are nothing special at all, only two or three of them looked fun to play more than once either. To me it is like a big shit sundae with speckles of shit flakes doused in hot piss fudge and only one cherry on top.

And, when I saw how you were defending Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing the same way, I put the two together. I mean, it was painful to watch "I'm okay with one Billy level" and then "I'm okay with playing as Billy" and then "I'm okay with two Billy levels" and then "I'm okay with three Billy levels" and then "I'm okay with this turning out nothing like anyone wanted". Well you probably did not say the last bit, but you get my point!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 12, 2010, 12:56:14 pm
So... I guess you won't play SASAR with me? :(

I'm not a Billy fan in the slightest, but I'm fine with the amount of Billy in the game. I've clocked roughly 13 hours with the game and I'd say only 1 of those hours consisted of Billy Hatcher track racing or playing as him (to get certain achievements, etc.). Yes he's there, but one can easily ignore him. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit online over something that I can simply avoid.

I'm sorry you live with so much hate, and that other people's opinions of a video game cause you so much pain. ;)

edit: there is a man you can turn to. he has been a great inspiration to me:
(http://http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/8864/753921-yukawa29.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 12, 2010, 02:07:04 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So... I guess you won't play SASAR with me? :(

I already have! I will again if you want in early May.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm not a Billy fan in the slightest, but I'm fine with the amount of Billy in the game. I've clocked roughly 13 hours with the game and I'd say only 1 of those hours consisted of Billy Hatcher track racing or playing as him (to get certain achievements, etc.). Yes he's there, but one can easily ignore him. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit online over something that I can simply avoid.

This has been discussed to death, I only brought it up because you kept saying you were okay with around 10% of the content in the game being based around some obscure game barely anyone even likes in a mashup of SEGA's supposed most loved and greatest achievements. I like smart decisions, so I am allowed to complain about poor ones. I played the game over 25 hours now, so I am doing fine with it, I think.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm sorry you live with so much hate, and that other people's opinions of a video game cause you so much pain. ;)

Why so serious? I just told you that I am happy you will enjoy the game and I never even said I hate this game or anything. In negative mood response I will mention your girlfriend as I know it bugs you. I bet she is like... Ugly or something! HA! Take that! :!:

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
edit: there is a man you can turn to. he has been a great inspiration to me:
(http://http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/8864/753921-yukawa29.jpg)

He has been dead for years.  :cry:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 12, 2010, 02:19:46 pm
No, my fiancee is not ugly. I'm sure you have a lovely boyfriend (joking), and I hope you treat my significant other with equal respect. ;)

Jesus has been dead for years and people still follow his teachings. I'd argue that Yukawa has started fewer wars than the other guy.

Now could we PLEASE get back to how Eggman should be called Robotnik and how this game needs a Genesis release?!

edit: in regards to SASAR, May is a-ok!  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 12, 2010, 02:44:36 pm
For the record, Jesus gave people terrible advice.

PRO TIP: Add trophies or achievements with the new DLC.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on April 12, 2010, 03:46:43 pm
Quote from: "George"
For the record, Jesus gave people terrible advice.
Yeah, cause having a simple life, spreading love and having humility are all terrible things to do  :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 12, 2010, 04:02:16 pm
Only Sonic could drive us to start talking about Jesus' teachings on SEGAbits.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 12, 2010, 05:53:00 pm
Let's move away from the religious talk, this is hardly the place for it (unless we are talking about Sonic/SEGA as a religion).

Getting back to Sonic... umm... I think they should include the Up, Down, Left, Right, A+Start level select.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on April 12, 2010, 06:02:59 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "George"
For the record, Jesus gave people terrible advice.
Yeah, cause having a simple life, spreading love and having humility are all terrible things to do  :roll:
Because quiting your job, giving away your stuff is logical advice. Did I even mention no to self defense? Very good.

Again, no more talk about Jesus and his horrible teachings. If you want to talk about it make a thread about it in the general forum.

I think, for what I seen, there is too little content for this eps and there is even filler levels. FFS!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 13, 2010, 03:37:19 am
Whoah whoah whoah! Let's get all this religious talk out of here! I'm a Christian and am used to all the Jesus jokes, but really? Must we make jabs at a religion in a Sonic 4 thread? Seriously.

I mean there are like 3 things that kill a decent thread discussion quick on the internet. Not in any order of signifigance:

-Drugs
-Religion
-Sexual orientation

So now that I've said my piece on that matter, I'll be the first to bring this thread back on the tracks.

I am still very surprised SEGA hasn't done any official dammage control besides removing those leaked videos off Youtube. I'd really like to know SEGA's official reaction to the orgasmic proportions of fanboyism that's errupted on the web since the first videos leaked. Would they take any of this criticisim, little of it is constructive, to heart and try to fix things before the game releases? If they do tweak things before release, could it be possible the game gets pushed back a tad? All of this is kind of wishful thinking on my part. I'm sure in reality SEGA has already planned all the marketing and timing for it's original slated release date on Wii, PS3, 360. It's probably going to be a part of XBOX live summer games campaign or something...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on April 13, 2010, 04:08:01 am
No more religion talk. Even if it is only part of your post. If you want to post about what was said about religion, post here (http://http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=244)

Now, discuss how bad / good Sonic 4 is  :mrgreen:  :minecart.gif:

That major leak did suck though, now SEGA has nothing left to show off about the game to hype anyone up.  They are gonna have to find a genius way to get people hyped again after a few months have passed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 13, 2010, 04:18:20 am
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
I'd really like to know SEGA's official reaction to the orgasmic proportions of fanboyism that's errupted on the web since the first videos leaked.

Sega's response: "Whats that? I can't hear you over the sound of how much money we're making of shitty Sonic games!"

I imagine the CEO then throws his head back and laughs while lighting a $100 bill on fire to light his cigar.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 13, 2010, 04:22:31 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
I'd really like to know SEGA's official reaction to the orgasmic proportions of fanboyism that's errupted on the web since the first videos leaked.

Sega's response: "Whats that? I can't hear you over the sound of how much money we're making of shitty Sonic games!"

I imagine the CEO then throws his head back and laughs while lighting a $100 bill on fire to light his cigar.

>_< Maybe so, but I don't think they have enough money to burn it... maybe in Microsoft or Sony's case yes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 13, 2010, 05:03:11 am
Quote
Now, discuss how bad / good Sonic 4 is :mrgreen: :minecart.gif:

Okay, game sucks.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "upsidedown fuji"
I'd really like to know SEGA's official reaction to the orgasmic proportions of fanboyism that's errupted on the web since the first videos leaked.

Sega's response: "Whats that? I can't hear you over the sound of how much money we're making of shitty Sonic games!"

I imagine the CEO then throws his head back and laughs while lighting a $100 bill on fire to light his cigar.

>_< Maybe so, but I don't think they have enough money to burn it... maybe in Microsoft or Sony's case yes.

Think again. SEGA shipped me Virtua Tennis 2009 swag from across the world a few months back. In the end it cost them around 100 USD. I emailed them prior to this to say I literally had no use for all of that crap, but they sent it anyways.

Also, do you see how they give away some stuff every Friday on Twitter? Half of the time it is really, really expensive collectibles or one of a kind special items, like they gave away a Bayonetta Xbox 360 with Kamiya's signature with a new copy of the game away to just some random people on Twitter. Not even joking.

When SEGA has money they have a STRANGE MINDFART
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on April 13, 2010, 07:30:24 am
I stand corrected. That is pretty bad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 20, 2010, 05:42:24 pm
It was leaked that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 will have five episodes.

Excessive. =/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 20, 2010, 05:56:33 pm
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 & Knuckles & Tails & Amy & Shadow
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on April 20, 2010, 05:57:10 pm
Five times four zones, eh?

5 * (4 * (3 acts)) = 5 * (4 * (2 acts + 1 pseudo-act)) = 5 * (8 acts + 4 pseudo-acts) = 40 acts + 20 pseudo-acts.

That's a lot of levels. If each episode costs 400 points, the whole package will be around 2000. In real money, $25 give it or take.

Retail please...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 20, 2010, 05:58:45 pm
I wonder if they'll decide to place badniks near the end of the level over a bottomless pits like they have in Mad Gear and Casion Street Zone in all their other new levels.

Pretty much calling it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on April 20, 2010, 08:00:15 pm
I've yet to see any leaked gameplay aside from the minecart level. This way I believe that I'll be more surprised when Sega shows it.

I hate leaks.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 21, 2010, 07:03:09 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
I wonder if they'll decide to place badniks near the end of the level over a bottomless pits like they have in Mad Gear and Casion Street Zone in all their other new levels.

Pretty much calling it.

Wait really? I didn't bother watching the vids, but that sounds so stupid it's funny. Stay classy Sonic Team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on April 22, 2010, 02:53:19 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Wait really? I didn't bother watching the vids, but that sounds so stupid it's funny. Stay classy Sonic Team.

Yeap, especially in Mad Gear you have to chain homing attack a few badniks but have to be careful not to homing attack the last one (The mantis badnik) because if you hit his spikes Sonic will get hurt and recoil into a bottomless pit, at the same time if you miss the platform he is on you'll fall into a bottomless pit on the other side.

I love Sonic Team proving me right, Nagoshi still the man who knows how to make a good and enjoyable game, not these hacks.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 22, 2010, 04:14:49 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Wait really? I didn't bother watching the vids, but that sounds so stupid it's funny. Stay classy Sonic Team.

Yeap, especially in Mad Gear you have to chain homing attack a few badniks but have to be careful not to homing attack the last one (The mantis badnik) because if you hit his spikes Sonic will get hurt and recoil into a bottomless pit, at the same time if you miss the platform he is on you'll fall into a bottomless pit on the other side.

That sounds like something me and you would come up with during an MSN conversation as a joke about how bad Sonic team is.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on May 08, 2010, 10:45:39 am
[youtube:1hduhl1x]8hATnPlD854[/youtube:1hduhl1x]
Not feeling it for some reason...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 08, 2010, 11:16:01 am
That's actually one of the stages in which I really "felt it". :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 08, 2010, 12:27:28 pm
I think the game looks really good honestly when I see levels like that I'm totally taken back to the genesis days.

Right now though theres SOMETHING not quite right about the way Sonic moves... I think I could easily get used to it, infact I was used to it by the end of the video... But it's something. I think his animations are to slow for the speed he moves... Something like that.

But at the end of the day, I thought it looked very good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 08, 2010, 12:39:24 pm
The music is SO DAMN AWFUL AND ANNOYING.

Also, lol, poor Metropolis Zone remake.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 08, 2010, 03:14:18 pm
Looks great and it seems to feel a lot like the Mega Drive games. The homming attack thing seems pretty well implemented and not obstructive/stupid at all.

Still, as mentioned, there's something about the speed of the animations not quite matching the movement speed. Maybe they'll fix this as it's something purely aesthetic. It's easy to get used to anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 08, 2010, 03:30:31 pm
Yeah, I have no idea how they screwed up the music so much. I like the drum sample, but these songs are just so low quality... it really bugs my ears a lot. Even the 8-bit games are way easier on the ears. I am not sure how Jun messed up that bad.

[youtube:1t8cf42u]ZCbqYFOcS0k[/youtube:1t8cf42u]

So you probably think I am just one of those guys who cannot let go of the past? Nah, I think SEGA can make classic-style Sonic music just fine!

[youtube:1t8cf42u]EW2eSXXEaFs[/youtube:1t8cf42u]

That song right there is better than anything we will ever see in any release of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, and that upsets me beyond belief.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 08, 2010, 07:01:41 pm
I think the music is good. Musically. The sound quality is bogus. I hope that's just bad recording or something.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 08, 2010, 08:25:42 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think the music is good. Musically. The sound quality is bogus. I hope that's just bad recording or something.

We have heard the direct feeds, they are just as bad. :x
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 08, 2010, 08:48:16 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think the music is good. Musically. The sound quality is bogus. I hope that's just bad recording or something.

We have heard the direct feeds, they are just as bad. :x
God, that's awful! The musics have a nice beat and rhythm to them.. But this way they just sound bad :S
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on May 13, 2010, 05:49:06 am
Whoa What the hell? The game was leaked on torrents  :shock:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on May 13, 2010, 05:53:51 am
We are not discussion piracy stuff here. Best ignore this talk.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 13, 2010, 06:18:28 am
It's not even finished yet. What the heck.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 13, 2010, 06:29:31 am
GG Sega, not only leak every single second of gameplay online, but lose the actual game too.

Oy Vey.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 13, 2010, 06:44:23 am
It is extremely complicated to get pirated XBLA games to work, so it's not a huge deal. Maybe about 10 people are playing the game now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on May 13, 2010, 07:57:25 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think the music is good. Musically. The sound quality is bogus. I hope that's just bad recording or something.

 Todas as musicas, sem excessao, sao completas bostas!

 Have this crap any music good to hear? Nope...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 13, 2010, 08:57:23 am
"bosta"

I love the sound of that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on May 13, 2010, 03:42:29 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
GG Sega, not only leak every single second of gameplay online, but lose the actual game too.

Oy Vey.

Not SEGA's fault.

Microsoft's fault.  PartnerNET

KUDOS TO MICROSOFT  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on May 13, 2010, 03:46:03 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
GG Sega, not only leak every single second of gameplay online, but lose the actual game too.

Oy Vey.

Not SEGA's fault.

Microsoft's fault.  PartnerNET

KUDOS TO MICROSOFT  :afroman:

 And Sega will do nothing about it? I don't think this is the first time a game is leaked from that place, and I don't think this is just a tiny simple issue for both companies(Sega/MS). It was just ridiculous everybody seen the whole game on youtube.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on May 13, 2010, 03:51:35 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
GG Sega, not only leak every single second of gameplay online, but lose the actual game too.

Oy Vey.

Not SEGA's fault.

Microsoft's fault.  PartnerNET

KUDOS TO MICROSOFT  :afroman:

 And Sega will do nothing about it? I don't think this is the first time a game is leaked from that place, and I don't think this is just a tiny simple issue for both companies(Sega/MS). It was just ridiculous everybody seen the whole game on youtube.

SEGA can't do anything about it.

Microsoft requires all digital games to be up on partnernet if they want to be on XBOX LIve Arcade.

I guess SEGA could cut ties with Microsoft, that would piss off lots of people here though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on May 13, 2010, 03:56:46 pm
And Sonic Adventure XBLA arcade has been leaked too.

My God, there must be a really disgruntled janitor at PartnerNet right now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on May 13, 2010, 03:59:24 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
And Sonic Adventure XBLA arcade has been leaked too.

My God, there must be a really disgruntled janitor at PartnerNet right now.
PartnerNET is a service.

Any developer / press member with a development 360 can access it.  Modded XBOX 360's can access it too, but Microsoft is starting to crack down on those.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on May 13, 2010, 04:18:14 pm
 Then, why the hell MS continues using this shitty service? It's already known this is not secure...

 Too bad Sony is not the leader anymore, otherwise Sonic 4 would be PS3 exclusive ;pppp
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on May 13, 2010, 06:21:51 pm
@Shadiwulf

Oh, OK.

I was just browsing for PartnerNet and this article came up (http://http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/02/why_partnernet_is_a_pr_nightma.php).

Quote
The way it works is this - all Xbox 360 debug kits have a Dashboard executable on them, and on that, you can set yourself up with a Xbox Live account under a name of your choice (the 'Partnernet' version of Xbox Live runs completely separately to the release version), and then go online to check out and test games and add-ons. We have a debug Xbox 360 in the Game Developer/Gamasutra office, and many other members of the press have them, but the contents of the Partnernet download area is NDA-ed - you're not allowed to discuss it. So we're not.

One of the problems for Xbox 360 developers is that, if they want to test downloading for something (say, add-on map packs for retail games, or XBLA games themselves), then they need to put it on Partnernet using their game name. At which point, because Microsoft currently has no screening across this debug network, all the other developers and press people in the world can also download that file - even if they allegedly can't discuss it.

This isn't the first time, this service had problems. The article refers to Ikaruga's early leak.
I honestly didn't remember it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 13, 2010, 07:03:46 pm
I haven't seen this preview posted...

http://spong.com/feature/10110107/Previ ... Hedgehog-4 (http://spong.com/feature/10110107/Preview-Sonic-the-Hedgehog-4)

I don't think its that new though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 13, 2010, 07:38:46 pm
Cool find! That looks to fairly new, posted a little over a week ago. Also, looks like Svend, owner of The Sonic Stadium wrote it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 13, 2010, 10:34:45 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
GG Sega, not only leak every single second of gameplay online, but lose the actual game too.

Oy Vey.

Not SEGA's fault.

Microsoft's fault.  PartnerNET

KUDOS TO MICROSOFT  :afroman:

Blame SEGA for working together with known hackers at Sonic Retro for feedback more than anything else.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on May 17, 2010, 08:12:55 am
After playing Rocket Knight I am much more excited for this than before.
I got bored of NSMB wii quickly, which is why my interest started to wain in the first place.

I hope that minekart level is better than it looks though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2010, 12:35:53 pm
Sonic Stadium and Retro are reporting that a press release with big Sonic 4 news is coming Thursday: http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/joint- ... -this-week (http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/joint-exclusive-sonic-4-blowout-coming-this-week)

My guess: iPad version and late June/early July release date announced
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 17, 2010, 12:50:29 pm
It's funny how even Sega is announcing this on their twitter account. For the love of god, the game leaked everywhere.

Maybe they're announcing proper music and NDAs for Episode II. :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on May 17, 2010, 01:10:42 pm
I'm sad AAUK didn't want to include SEGAbits into this Sonic 4 exclusive announcement of an announcement orgy. =P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 17, 2010, 01:23:58 pm
It's probably because the people here like their Sonic games good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2010, 01:38:06 pm
^ Aw, that's just stupid. Game isn't released yet, so don't be a hater. Play THEN judge.

Also, we don't have karma points. That is truly why we were excluded.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 17, 2010, 01:46:17 pm
Actually I was referring to most of the games released after Sonic Adventure 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 17, 2010, 02:23:50 pm
Sonic Adventure 2 was godlike.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2010, 03:00:05 pm
I recently played Sonic Advance 1&3 and found those to be rather great. Those and Unleashed day levels were the best post-SA2 Sonic I've played.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 17, 2010, 04:33:10 pm
^^^Aw, that's just stupid. Game has been released, so don't be a hater. Play THEN listen to every excuse I do to make it sound okay.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 17, 2010, 04:54:11 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
^^^Aw, that's just stupid. Game has been released, so don't be a hater. Play THEN listen to every excuse I do to make it sound okay.

What does that mean?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on May 17, 2010, 05:37:17 pm
Sonic Adventure 2 was not that very good, not at least one of the greatest Sonic games or anywhere near there (See almost every level not belonging to Sonic and Shadow) Sonic Advance was indeed good and before Dimps started to lose their direction, but Sonic Advance 3 I cannot get behind, the level design was missing something and I thought the whole buddy thing was an un-needed gimmick.

I will say the music has always remained good though and probably my favourite part about Sonic Advance 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2010, 08:03:25 pm
I'd say in hindsight SA2 was nowhere near the best Sonic game. But at the time think about all that was going on: The Dreamcast was at its height of greatness, Sonic was having his 10th birthday, there was a really fancy exclusive birthday pack, the SA2 demo disc in PSO v.2 built up a lot of hype, Shadow was a mysterious character, Eggman was playable, the plot was actually well executed and fun to follow. Tons of great nostalgic bits contribute to the love SA2 gets.

I remember at the time how crazy it was that Eggman would team with Sonic and that he had a grandfather. It was also very cool that Shadow gave his life to save the Earth and, at the time, was dead forever. He had this brief level of coolness to him until he became an emo zombie in future games. So point I'm getting at: Heroes and the Shadow game greatly hurt SA2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on May 17, 2010, 10:55:11 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
I'm sad AAUK didn't want to include SEGAbits into this Sonic 4 exclusive announcement of an announcement orgy. =P
Even though we were said to get exclusive info the title. Will not be shocked if we get nothing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on May 18, 2010, 05:52:11 am
@Aki-at,Barry the Nomad

Don't forget the god-awful camera system in which it would reset everything you adjusted it. Or the rushed and distracting english dubbing.

Of coure, browsing through Metacritic (http://http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/drm/sonicadventure2?q=sonic%20adventure%202) I am puzzled over of was critics though about back then and how critics react to these same issues now.

Here's a quote from Gamespot's original review from 2001:
Quote
The ghosts of those original 2D Sonic titles are exorcised in the game's amazing pace, heart-pounding platform jumping action, and in the unyielding barrage of creatively designed levels--much more so than the original Sonic Adventure. Although Sonic Adventure 2 isn't without its faults, the game is both entertaining and addictive, and will easily become one of the last great games on the Dreamcast.

Saying something like this now would result in suffering the wrath of Internet trolls in NeoGaf.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 18, 2010, 06:09:19 am
The hatred started with the Gamecube version of the original Sonic Adventure. We know how that didn't improve the original game at all, even introducing a number of new glitches.

That was the first (or second?) Sonic game rabid Nintendo fans ever played. It's as if the superior Dreamcast version never existed. Too bad these fanboys are infiltrated in every major games site. These sites dominate the internet and influence general opinion a tad too much.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 18, 2010, 08:03:47 am
Quote from: "Orta"
That was the first (or second?) Sonic game rabid Nintendo fans ever played. It's as if the superior Dreamcast version never existed. Too bad these fanboys are infiltrated in every major games site. These sites dominate the internet and influence general opinion a tad too much.

AGREED wholeheartedly!

I frequent TSS and other Sonic fan sites and I gotta say, a LOT of the members are Nintendoids who got into Sonic with the Gamecube rereleases. :x And before you say "oh here goes old man Barry with his age discrimination", let me say that age has nothing to do with it. I've been a good number of people my own age who only got into Sonic because of DX and Battle. It makes me want to vomit in anger when I see the Dreamcast classics pushed aside and have to hear terms like SADX and SA2B tossed about. Fuck those ports. The real magic was in the Dreamcast originals.

And don't get me started on the people who think the classics "aren't all that" because their introduction to them was the Gamecube's Sonic Mega Collection. Where were they when the Genesis originals were fresh? Oh yeah, they were the enemy playing Super Nintendo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 18, 2010, 10:49:26 am
Oh here goes old man Barry with his age discrimination.

I would say it has more to do with people around them, and the communities online. A lot of people into the franchise now started out on the GameCube, but that does not mean their opinions should be considered any less than ours or that they cannot like the older titles as much.

It is like, growing up I was not really a fan of Golden Axe. I mean, I did not hate it, but I just did not really appreciate it as much as I should have. When I got older, I started to learn more about it, how to play it better and in the end it has turned out to be one of my favorite games by the publisher.

Communities can get together and discuss Sonic's marketing, talking about how speed was the main focus and whatnot. This would rub off onto others who read it trying to learn about the franchise with them thinking that is how the games are like, and then in the end it all spreads down to people thinking the series is supposed to be something it is not. Adding to this with how many styles the Sonic series has had, it is always going to be rare for there to just be a fanbase that likes it all.

I think a good way to sum it up is that for me, Shenmue is one of my favorite games. People who have played it may not like it, and people who have just seen it may not like it either, this has come down to some people saying it sucks and communities listening and taking note, thinking that is just the truth. It is the same for me with games like Jet Set Radio and Valkyria Chronicles. Because those fanbases like them so much and will not shut up about them, and keep asking SEGA to just make those I end up liking them less. Does that make me shallow? Maybe!

Also, I hate it when people call it Sonic Adventure 2 Battle instead of Sonic Adventure 2, those dirty bastards. > : [
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 18, 2010, 11:49:16 am
I clocked over 200 hours on Sonic Adventure 2.
It's by far my favorite game of all time. But that doesn't mean it's the best. Not at all.

I think the camera issues were greatly fixed from SA, gameplay was sharper, the levels more fun.. I liked Knuckles' levels, especially Pumpkin Hill (my record was like 40 seconds at one point).

As for what Barry said, I agree heartedly. Orta is also right.
I hate how people usually "forget" about Dreamcast versions of games.
I've actually seen people say that Crazy Taxi sucks because the controls are bad, only to find out they were playing the PS2 version.

(I accidentally wrote Crazy Taco the first time LOL)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 18, 2010, 02:07:10 pm
Hey hey hey! C'mon down for a crazy crunch! Crazy Taco!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on May 19, 2010, 02:31:04 pm
I liked SA2, I do have SA2Battle but haven't actually played it.

I'll admit right now though that I thought the tails/eggman stages were lame. Although I preferred them to Big the cat.

Also, I could go for some crazy tacos.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on May 20, 2010, 01:10:23 am
I liked most of SA2 alot. my only gripe really was the tails eggman stages.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 20, 2010, 05:17:04 pm
iPhone, delayed to late 2010 for polishing.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on May 20, 2010, 05:19:15 pm
Eh I'm still convinced they should just release the whole damn thing as one game and none of this episode bullshit. Now we'll have to wait even longer for episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on May 20, 2010, 05:27:39 pm
Quote
delayed to late 2010 for polishing.
Good news actually.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 20, 2010, 06:01:49 pm
Quote from: "Pao"
Quote
delayed to late 2010 for polishing.
Good news actually.

For the physics yes, but not for the sales. Downloadable games are slaughtered in the winter rush of big retail games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 20, 2010, 06:35:33 pm
fantastic news.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on May 20, 2010, 06:41:14 pm
I'm pretty happy about this one.
Downloadable games have that long tail thing that a lot of retail releases (outside of Nintendo's first party stuff) don't.
I don't think the sales will be hurt all that much. I'm just happy that they're showing they really care about the quality of this game, and don't want to rush it out to meet the released date they set for it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 20, 2010, 07:36:13 pm
My sources tell me that they are actually delaying this game to add in no less than 7 Mine Cart Stages. They skimmed over some forums and saw how much talk there was of the mine carts and decided they should build on that feature especially.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on May 20, 2010, 07:43:39 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Pao"
Quote
delayed to late 2010 for polishing.
Good news actually.

For the physics yes, but not for the sales. Downloadable games are slaughtered in the winter rush of big retail games.
The game will do fine.


iPhone version has 2 extra levels. Discuss.

(Funny how they say "its for Console fans" yet give the handheld 2 extra levels. Thanks I guess)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on May 20, 2010, 07:50:55 pm
Fuck the sales period, if this is really a quality delay then that is nice change on Sega's part.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 20, 2010, 08:24:46 pm
Quote from: "George"


iPhone version has 2 extra levels. Discuss.

(Funny how they say "its for Console fans" yet give the handheld 2 extra levels. Thanks I guess)

I predict they have canned the Minecart and pinball stages for all of the other consoles due to the overwhelming negitive feedback and have left them in the ipod version because everyone that buys games on ipods deserves it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on May 20, 2010, 09:29:34 pm
I'm positive on the game but the graphic style is flat and lacks character compared to classic Sonic.

Seriously, learn to understand a 'look', motherfuckers.

Sonic expresses something, it's not just a game. Is it really that hard to grasp?

And get rid of the horrible as fuck, corporate, focus group researched Sonic design in the title screen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on May 20, 2010, 10:41:59 pm
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Sonic expresses something, it's not just a game. Is it really that hard to grasp?
Yes, he expresses SEGA's desire to have an appealing mascot that rakes in cash for them like Mario does for Nintendo. He was not commissioned with corporate greed in mind!!11!!!1!!!!

Though, we should be thankful we're not getting this horrible abomination (http://http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6438/sonic4.png) instead.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on May 20, 2010, 10:51:44 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Sonic expresses something, it's not just a game. Is it really that hard to grasp?
Yes, he expresses SEGA's desire to have an appealing mascot that rakes in cash for them like Mario does for Nintendo. He was not commissioned with corporate greed in mind!!11!!!1!!!!

Though, we should be thankful we're not getting this horrible abomination (http://http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6438/sonic4.png) instead.
Pretty much. He is a mascot for a CORPORATION.

:: waits for East to start moaning ::
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on May 21, 2010, 02:59:19 am
Don't get me wrong, though. I love Sonic. His games were revolutionary to be sure, but he was originally commissioned by SEGA to sell video game consoles and make profits.

He's been focused tested extensively in different regions from the 90's all the way up until now, making him cuter in Japan and having more "attitude" for the West. All of his different designs are meant to be commercially and aesthetically appealing for their audiences.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 21, 2010, 04:56:19 am
MAKE PROPER MUSIC

I'd be happy if they scrapped that clown music boss theme.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on May 25, 2010, 04:16:01 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Sonic expresses something, it's not just a game. Is it really that hard to grasp?
Yes, he expresses SEGA's desire to have an appealing mascot that rakes in cash for them like Mario does for Nintendo. He was not commissioned with corporate greed in mind!!11!!!1!!!!

Though, we should be thankful we're not getting this horrible abomination (http://http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6438/sonic4.png) instead.

his head looks microwaved.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on May 25, 2010, 04:51:13 pm
What is that, I don't even....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on May 26, 2010, 08:54:32 pm
(http://http://i48.tinypic.com/qslj7n.jpg)


Sonic 2 Tree:
(http://http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6977/upm105evoltreesonicarti.jpg)

A highly stylized palm tree with hints of 3D and polygons in the geometric construction of the leaves. Very cutting edge for its time.

Sonic 4 Tree Concept Art:

(http://http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2965/4326183302e0b0b48368.jpg)

Realistic non-stylized rendition of a tree lacking geometric angles of Sonic 2 tree.

Where's the fucking art Dimp/Sega?  High art and profits can go together, lazy pathetic assholes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 26, 2010, 09:48:17 pm
Im starting to thinks you are a troll... or just a bit mad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 26, 2010, 11:19:56 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Im starting to thinks you are a troll... or just a bit mad.

You're only starting to realise that now?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 27, 2010, 08:05:21 am
Most members here hating on '4' are mad trolls. That, or grown men who hate children's games. Or children who hate children's games and love big boy games with blood and sex. Whatever the case, I've just decided not to discuss the game here.

For the record, I love blood and sex but not only IRL.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 08:59:39 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
For the record, I love blood and sex but not only IRL.  :twisted:

For the record, I love blood and sex, but only at the same time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 10:11:59 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Most members here hating on '4' are mad trolls. That, or grown men who hate children's games. Or children who hate children's games and love big boy games with blood and sex. Whatever the case, I've just decided not to discuss the game here.

For the record, I love blood and sex but not only IRL.  :twisted:

That is part of the argument. Sonic 1, 2, 3 and many of the other games in the main series were meant for all age groups, not children specifically. This is how Mario games are still designed, so why not Sonic?

I hate to say it, but Sega Stylista is right here, though DIMPS did not do the art. The art in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is pooey and does not have much thought gone into it.

Compare Mushroom Hill Zone (Sonic & Knuckles) with Splash Hill Zone (Sonic the Hedgehog 4), not only does Mushroom Hill Zone look significantly better, but it has different styles and art added in between the level as you progress, with cool graphical extras like when you hit the ground you could kick up dandelions. It has extremely creative gimmicks like the pumps, poles you could spin around on, mushrooms to bounce on, to balance on, to glide with, stuff like that. Can you think of any other games that have ideas like this? Compare that to what? Metal speed boosters that clash with the level art that are poorly drawn? Swinging vines that happen to be the only vines in the level at all? Not just that, but it is the little things, like none of the levels having badniks specific to their level, I mean those floating spike enemies are in ever level, this kind of stuff would never have happened with a good set of designers.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 10:23:05 am
Compare one of the best levels in classic sonic to maybe the worst level in Sonic 4?
Lets compare Green Hill zone from Sonic 1 to Splash Hill Zone...

Green hill zone is pretty flat and boring, it's short and has no gimmicks so to speak... The first act of most Sonic games have been pretty dull design wise. Sonic and Knuckles was the exception to the rule.

Green hill zone act one has 1 loop to its name, while Splash hill zone has mutlipe loops, zip lines, vine swings and so on. Making it, in my mind... A more fleshed out level.

The only thing I would change in Splash Hill is the mid level background. Those bushes look a bit crap but the far off background looks good.


Edit: Also all the badniks in Mushroom hill zone are fucking terrible and had they been in Sonic 4 you and the rest of the internet would be complaining their not classic enough. Like the chicken that stops you mid flow by blowing air... Or that annoying one that takes 2 hits to kill becuase you need to remove the mushroom from its head... Or that thing that throws fucking stupid homing mushrooms at you... SHIT GAME, NOT CLASSIC!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 10:57:33 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Compare one of the best levels in classic sonic to maybe the worst level in Sonic 4?
Lets compare Green Hill zone from Sonic 1 to Splash Hill Zone...

Green hill zone is pretty flat and boring, it's short and has no gimmicks so to speak... The first act of most Sonic games have been pretty dull design wise. Sonic and Knuckles was the exception to the rule.

Green hill zone act one has 1 loop to its name, while Splash hill zone has mutlipe loops, zip lines, vine swings and so on. Making it, in my mind... A more fleshed out level.

The only thing I would change in Splash Hill is the mid level background. Those bushes look a bit crap but the far off background looks good.

Why would you do that? It is like saying if Nintendo makes a new 2D Mario platformer with poor level design and gimmicks that it is okay to compare to the first ever 2D Mario platformer. It is not, they should try to improve. At the time Sonic 1 came out, loops and even bridges that bent were considered gimmicks themselves.

But if you want me to prove Green Hill Zone is much better than Splash Hill Zone, I would be very happy to!

First off, Sonic the Hedgehog only had two zones with loops in it at all. Not that it would matter as they do not add much to the game outside of an extra platform above them. Wacky Workbench from Sonic CD has more loops than any 2D Sonic level, and is one of the worst level in the series. The two loops in Green Hill Zone are nice in that to get on top of one you need to get past it first, then go backwards and roll, then jump off of the wall to reach the platform above it, there is no other way to. This alone requires more skill and thinking than anything I have seen in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, period.

Next, go back and play the Zone again. I will give you that they are short, but at the time this was the most expansive level in a platformer to date, only being rivaled by Super Mario Brothers 3. You could go in all different directions, which would lead to different items and paths. You could go through high-speed tubes, there was a spinning pointy log bridge, there were cliff edges that would break. All of this is not really impressive now, but my point is that a big game made in 2010 should be at least slightly better than a big game made in 1991, especially when there are much more impressive design concept added into the series within those 19 years.

I could go on for hours about what is wrong with the art design in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, but I will not. I just want to say that even stuff like Sonic Advance, Sonic Triple Trouble and even Sonic 3D Blast has better level art design and gimmicks than Sonic the Hedgehog 4 does, and I do not think this is acceptable at all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on May 27, 2010, 11:27:58 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Im starting to thinks you are a troll... or just a bit mad.

I'm not a troll. And I'm anticipating Sonic 4 and am enthusiastic about it.

You're just starting to think I'm a bit mad?  Interesting.  :afroman:

Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Im starting to thinks you are a troll... or just a bit mad.

You're only starting to realise that now?

lmao. I honestly replied to him before I read this.

Good one, Goro Majima-man

Seriously, I'm not one of these "kaarazzy dudes". I'm just not normal.

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I hate to say it, but Sega Stylista is right here, though DIMPS did not do the art. The art in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is pooey and does not have much thought gone into it.

You are my man. You are a hardcore sega stylista.

Quote
Compare Mushroom Hill Zone (Sonic & Knuckles) with Splash Hill Zone (Sonic the Hedgehog 4), not only does Mushroom Hill Zone look significantly better, but it has different styles and art added in between the level as you progress, with cool graphical extras like when you hit the ground you could kick up dandelions. It has extremely creative gimmicks like the pumps, poles you could spin around on, mushrooms to bounce on, to balance on, to glide with, stuff like that. Can you think of any other games that have ideas like this? Compare that to what? Metal speed boosters that clash with the level art that are poorly drawn? Swinging vines that happen to be the only vines in the level at all? Not just that, but it is the little things, like none of the levels having badniks specific to their level, I mean those floating spike enemies are in ever level, this kind of stuff would never have happened with a good set of designers.

There is nothing wrong with noting all this. It's accurate and it's not "hating on the game".  Don't forget to mention that Dimps uses color globs rather than gradients and shading.

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I could go on for hours about what is wrong with the art design in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, but I will not. I just want to say that even stuff like Sonic Advance, Sonic Triple Trouble and even Sonic 3D Blast has better level art design and gimmicks than Sonic the Hedgehog 4 does, and I do not think this is acceptable at all.

Wow, arise, hardcore sega stylista man.

There is nothing wrong with a critical appreciation of a game, it's not hating. It's enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 11:45:01 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

Why would you do that?
Because theres nothing more 'classic sonic' then green hill zone.


Quote
This alone requires more skill and thinking than anything I have seen in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, period.
But you haven't even played Sonic 4... At best you have seen playthoughs of people that are not that good at the game. Talk about jumping the gun.

Quote
Next, go back and play the Zone again. I will give you that they are short, but at the time this was the most expansive level in a platformer to date, only being rivaled by Super Mario Brothers 3. You could go in all different directions, which would lead to different items and paths. You could go through high-speed tubes, there was a spinning pointy log bridge, there were cliff edges that would break. All of this is not really impressive now, but my point is that a big game made in 2010 should be at least slightly better than a big game made in 1991, especially when there are much more impressive design concept added into the series within those 19 years.
Your right none of that is super impressive and a game in 2010 should be better... But then again Splash hill DOES look better to me.

If people ask for a Sonic game to go back to basics and be like the classics dont complain when it does.

Could have been worse... look at Megaman 9...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 12:17:24 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Why would you do that?
Because theres nothing more 'classic sonic' then green hill zone.

My point is that there have been tons of improvements to design of games in general since this has been released. SEGA should want to improve, not release something that is just 'good enough'. This is the kind of design mentality we got with stuff like Sonic Blast on Game Gear, which is what Sonic the Hedgehog 4 reminds me of the most sadly.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote
This alone requires more skill and thinking than anything I have seen in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, period.
But you haven't even played Sonic 4... At best you have seen playthoughs of people that are not that good at the game. Talk about jumping the gun.

Read what I said again. I specifically pointed out that it requires more skill from anything I have seen. I do not think this is jumping the gun at all.

Quote from: "Sharky"
If people ask for a Sonic game to go back to basics and be like the classics dont complain when it does.

Could have been worse... look at Megaman 9...

So with Mega Man 9 you are allowed to complain because it is not what you want even though it is back to basics and is designed like the classics?

Like I said, this is just the quality of something like Sonic Blast on Game Gear. I like that game, sure, but it is nowhere near the quality of what Sonic the Hedgehog 4 SHOULD be.

I think you are missing my point entirely. I am not upset because there is a 'classic style' Sonic game coming out. I am upset because SEGA will be releasing a game that has a 'good enough' mentality as a sequel to what is easily their biggest and most important game trilogy of all time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 01:30:21 pm
What I'm saying is at least Sonic 4 LOOKs up to date...
I think a 'good enough' mentality would have been simply going backinto the Sonic 1 or 2 engine and changing some assets so it's similar to the level creator on Play SEGA and calling it Sonic 4.

For the life of me all I ever see you do is complain about shit Sanus, I think you are overlooking all of the good points of Sonic 4 and complaining about some small trivial rubbish that doesnt suit YOUR exact needs.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 27, 2010, 02:17:18 pm
Agreed. I don't get where this "good enough" nonsense is coming from. I've been told again and again here that I'm guilty of saying Sonic 4 is " good enough" when I really should be expecting something "above and beyond" what it is. What boggles my mind is how some folks don't get that perhaps what I'm seeing IS above and beyond what I was initially expecting.

Perhaps I never expected a Sonic 4 to begin with, and "good enough" would have been a Mega Man 9 style game that looks like it was ripped from the Genesis days. However, I've always viewed the Sonic series to be something that evolved with the technology at hand, not some quirky title that relied on bit graphics to define it's visual style.

edit: page 69, lol
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 03:39:04 pm
I like how my arguments are thrown out of the window and I am just left with being called a complainer. I thought the whole point of discussing anything was to bring up the faults when we are on forums?

All I ever see you guys talk about is how awesome it is that we have not gotten a good Sonic game like this in years. My whole overall complaint is that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 SHOULD be a bigger game than it is. I bet you would be complaining your ass off if Shenmue III turned out to be a 'good enough' release directed by a guy who has constantly proven he does not know what the franchise is about and wants to keep adding stuff that harms the general gameplay or breaks the formula.

You might want to argue that I would just not be happy with anything. That is not true, but from what I can see here, it does not even begin to compare with Sonic 1 2 or 3. If this was just another spinoff game, I would have no issues, but this is SONIC THE FUCKING HEDGEHOG 4, it should be one of if not the absolute biggest project by SEGA right now as it is a direct sequel to what is literally their biggest game trilogy of all time. Look at something like Marvel vs Capcom 3, what makes that game so special for it to get its own release but not Sonic? Hell, I would not be surprised if Sonic and the Black Knight had a bigger budget than this, and that is just fucking wrong.

Take a look at Angel Island Zone from Sonic Advance 1

[youtube:1ap932au]CYrpKEcOIZk[/youtube:1ap932au]

Okay, the level design and gimmicks are not some of the best, and the art is not extraordinary nor is the general mapping all that great, but I think this looks to be a much better blending of the old and new styles of Sonic. Look! That level specifically has tons of gimmicks found throughout the old games, that is a good example of showing respect to the old games while still keeping it all fresh. Compare it to the gimmicks in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, like I even said previously, all of the levels share the spikey floating enemy, let alone that none of the badniks in that game are not even original designs.

Seriously, I cannot believe you guys are okay with how this has turned out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 03:51:45 pm
Games not even out yet and its been delayed.

Those animations are really poor, looks like hes running in glucose.

I will agree that there is a good level of 'gimmicks' but other then that everything looks poorer then what ive seen in Sonic 4.

Tell me, is this level from Sonic Advance act 1?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 27, 2010, 03:56:15 pm
Quote
I cannot believe you guys are okay with how this has turned out.

This is the whole problem with our debate here.

You give your opinion and your reasons, and love them or hate them we accept that it's your opinion. We type out why we disagree (note: we understand why you hate it but disagree) but then you always come back to the line quoted above. I could type up a ten page essay explaining why I like the direction of Sonic 4 and you'll still say "I cannot believe you guys are okay with how this has turned out."

Point is, we are (for the most part) okay with it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 04:34:34 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Games not even out yet and its been delayed.

Those animations are really poor, looks like hes running in glucose.

I will agree that there is a good level of 'gimmicks' but other then that everything looks poorer then what ive seen in Sonic 4.

Tell me, is this level from Sonic Advance act 1?

But this is not Sonic the Hedgehog 4, that is my point. This is why it is okay. What does it matter what act it is? The first levels in newer Sonic games have always been the best, and Sonic Advance is no different. I dunno man, go play the game, that is actually one of the worst playing levels overall.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote
I cannot believe you guys are okay with how this has turned out.

This is the whole problem with our debate here.

You give your opinion and your reasons, and love them or hate them we accept that it's your opinion. We type out why we disagree (note: we understand why you hate it but disagree) but then you always come back to the line quoted above. I could type up a ten page essay explaining why I like the direction of Sonic 4 and you'll still say "I cannot believe you guys are okay with how this has turned out."

Point is, we are (for the most part) okay with it!

Not really. Sharky freaks out about if I say anything negative or unsupporting of the game, saying I am whining or should be more supportive of a developer who has fucked us over countless times or am nitpicking (When it really obviously is not) and you constantly use some snide remarks that try to make a joke out of everything.

Every time I have said something nice about the game, it has been ignored, if I say something bad or give constructive criticism I am hung out to dry. I think this is all just coming down to you guys not giving a shit how the game turns out as long as Sonic is in it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 04:50:17 pm
I haven't freaked out once... Not to mention I havent baught a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 2 so I'm not sure were you get that idea from. Sonic was never my favourite aspect of Sega although I've wanted it to improve for years.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is all kinds of steps in the right direction... There delaying it to work on it... What more do you want.

Are you REALLY crying about the name? I mean really... What next? Eye colour?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 27, 2010, 05:08:25 pm
Yo playaz!

I was rushing out of work last comment I typed, but I meant to add: no bad blood over others opinions on Sonic 4, I was just pointing out the circuitous nature of our discussions and how we probably won't have firm opinions until the game releases.

As for making a joke out of everything, when it all comes down to it we're talking about video games. Hardly something to get too worked up over. I just hate to see things dip into deathly serious.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2010, 05:08:25 pm
Sharky thinks the old Sonic games were just blatant rip-offs of Mario anyway. I think the line was 'Sonic is just a blue Mario'.


So, yeah.

I'm still thinking I won't be getting Sonic 4, and the homing attack is a big reason for that. It's a big alarm bell that they've just missed the feel of the original games completely for me.

I also think the production values do scream out of 'Good Enough' as Sanus said. And that's my opinion on the matter.

I would appreciate it if you didn't call us "Mad Trolls" for not liking this game either Barry, that's really not very nice.
EDIT: JUst saw barry's post above mine. No hard feelings!  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 27, 2010, 05:09:57 pm
I also went on to hint at liking period porn, so please take that post with a grain of salt.

For the record: I don't like period porn.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 05:40:28 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Sharky thinks the old Sonic games were just blatant rip-offs of Mario anyway. I think the line was 'Sonic is just a blue Mario'.
He's faster too... But at the end of the day Sega big wigs sat around a table at Sega HQ said 'Hey we got all these awesome arcade games but we don't have a mario and polls say thats what kids want'...

And the rest is history... Sonic does a lot of the things Mario does, but faster and I think that was the initial idea.

So, yeah.

Then again according to Sanus I'm some kind of fanboy that'll just buy anything Sonic related... Make up your mind boys... Have a little chat about it, come back... Tell me what I am then.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2010, 05:43:27 pm
Well, you DID buy Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing...

Joking, joking. You guys are alllright.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 05:51:01 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Well, you DID buy Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing...

Joking, joking. You guys are alllright.
So did Sanus... and Aki and everyone else here. It's a good game too...

The Sonic 4 episodes are taking steps in the right direction far more then any of the recent Sonic games... It might not be perfect but it's a start.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on May 27, 2010, 06:08:53 pm
Hang on a second, I never bought SEGA All-Stars Racing!

I had Yakuza 3 and 4 to play around that time, busy cracking skulls and whooing transexual call girls.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2010, 06:11:12 pm
I also was cracking skulls and dating shemales, but I didn't have Yakuza 3 yet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 06:20:33 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I haven't freaked out once... Not to mention I havent baught a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 2 so I'm not sure were you get that idea from. Sonic was never my favourite aspect of Sega although I've wanted it to improve for years.

You have gotten very mad at me in almost every post, questioning my thinking patterns in even the post I am responding to. I consider that freaking out.

You are always the first one to talk about new Sonic games no matter what, even before Shadi does. Just because you have not 'baught' a Sonic game in years means nothing. You are a fanboy, and you cannot admit it.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is all kinds of steps in the right direction... There delaying it to work on it... What more do you want?

Are you REALLY crying about the name? I mean really... What next? Eye colour?

You are still completely missing the point. Let's put it this way.

Shenmue Online comes out, but is called Shenmue III. Yeah, it continues the story and has similar gameplay elements, similar art that is not as good and the music is much different and is made by people who largely do not understand what Shenmue was about? Well, I will tell you to STOP WHINING, because at least we got Shenmue III!

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Yo playaz!

I was rushing out of work last comment I typed, but I meant to add: no bad blood over others opinions on Sonic 4, I was just pointing out the circuitous nature of our discussions and how we probably won't have firm opinions until the game releases.

As for making a joke out of everything, when it all comes down to it we're talking about video games. Hardly something to get too worked up over. I just hate to see things dip into deathly serious.

Well I do not care in the long run because I am not getting it (at least, not in separate episodes). I am annoyed that when I state my opinion, people will say I am a troll or whining and not really respond to my comments when I feel all of my arguments are well established and easy to understand.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Sharky thinks the old Sonic games were just blatant rip-offs of Mario anyway. I think the line was 'Sonic is just a blue Mario'.
He's faster too... But at the end of the day Sega big wigs sat around a table at Sega HQ said 'Hey we got all these awesome arcade games but we don't have a mario and polls say thats what kids want'...

And the rest is history... Sonic does a lot of the things Mario does, but faster and I think that was the initial idea.

AND SHINOBI HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HACK N SLASH AND GOLDEN AXE NEEDS QTES

But seriously, what MadeMang meant to say was that you do not know what you are talking about because you think Sonic has always been a Mario ripoff.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Then again according to Sanus I'm some kind of fanboy that'll just buy anything Sonic related... Make up your mind boys... Have a little chat about it, come back... Tell me what I am then.

I did not say you would ever even buy it in any of my posts, so quit putting words into my mouth, ya whippersnapper, dangnabbit!

Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Well, you DID buy Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing...

Joking, joking. You guys are alllright.

See, that is okay, because it is an original release. If it was marketed or read off as if it were a sequel to something like SEGA Rally Championship, I would be flipping my shit something crazy!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on May 27, 2010, 06:46:57 pm
Is this news? Apparently the game is also coming to the Ipad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 06:49:44 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
You have gotten very mad at me in almost every post, questioning my thinking patterns in even the post I am responding to. I consider that freaking out.
I haven't even broken a sweat once yet.

Quote
You are always the first one to talk about new Sonic games no matter what, even before Shadi does. Just because you have not 'baught' a Sonic game in years means nothing. You are a fanboy, and you cannot admit it.
Proof, right now.
Backing up what you say with some hard evidence has always been your weak point.


Quote
You are still completely missing the point. Let's put it this way.

Shenmue Online comes out, but is called Shenmue III. Yeah, it continues the story and has similar gameplay elements, similar art that is not as good and the music is much different and is made by people who largely do not understand what Shenmue was about? Well, I will tell you to STOP WHINING, because at least we got Shenmue III!
You would have a point if Sonic 4 was an MMORPG... and not ... well a game that plays like classic sonic bar a few minor changes.



Quote
AND SHINOBI HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HACK N SLASH AND GOLDEN AXE NEEDS QTES
Did I say that? proof?
Looking forward to you finding it.


Quote
But seriously, what MadeMang meant to say was that you do not know what you are talking about because you think Sonic has always been a Mario ripoff.
Not a rip off... Similar. What would that have to do with anything anyway... I still played the same classic Sonic games you did.

Can't see how me saying that Sega needed a platformer to compete with Mario and so made Sonic has anything to do with my opinion that Sonic 4 isnt that bad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2010, 07:13:33 pm
I think that new Sonic games need an in-depth combo system like Bayonetta.

(I'm just fooling around now, don't take my posts seriously)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on May 27, 2010, 07:34:11 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
You have gotten very mad at me in almost every post, questioning my thinking patterns in even the post I am responding to. I consider that freaking out.
I haven't even broken a sweat once yet.

Well it is fucking 90 degrees here, so I hate you!

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote
You are always the first one to talk about new Sonic games no matter what, even before Shadi does. Just because you have not 'baught' a Sonic game in years means nothing. You are a fanboy, and you cannot admit it.
Proof, right now.
Backing up what you say with some hard evidence has always been your weak point.

Dude, you were the first one to mention Sonic Colors to me, the first to talk to me about Sonic the Hedgehog 4 when both first teasers were revealed, a lot of stuff. If you cannot remember then that is your fault.

Logic has always been your weak point.

Quote from: "Sharky"
You would have a point if Sonic 4 was an MMORPG... and not ... well a game that plays like classic sonic bar a few minor changes.

No, Shenmue is an RPG, so just adding three letters to that means it is classic Shenmue, STOP WHINING!

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote
AND SHINOBI HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HACK N SLASH AND GOLDEN AXE NEEDS QTES
Did I say that? proof?
Looking forward to you finding it.

Not those words exactly, but you did say things like that. The Shinobi one is in the 'rumored new Shinobi game with Bayonetta engine' thread, and the Golden Axe one was on SEGA Nerds when Beast Rider was coming out in a few days.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Can't see how me saying that Sega needed a platformer to compete with Mario and so made Sonic has anything to do with my opinion that Sonic 4 isnt that bad.

Lets say Fluffy is gay, okay I know it is hard to believe but just work with me here. If a woman came onto him that did not understand what being a homosexual meant then she would think she had a chance with him.

It is like, you just do not know what made the old games all that great or important or anything. I am not trying to sound like and elitist here, and I am glad you like this game and all, but you are frankly being an ass to anyone who does not agree with you entirely.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 07:38:43 pm
We can go in circles for the next 10 pages and finally agree to disagree or we can do it now.
I cant be arsed anymore honestly.

Also, if theres one thing I know. It's that fuzzy is not gay, just like rainbows and unicorns.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on May 28, 2010, 07:22:11 pm
http://http://www.tssznews.com/2010/05/28/exclusive-sonic-4-gimmick-acts-shifted-to-iphoneipod-touch-release/

If you want to believe it.

Also, what's with this:

Quote
But our source is pessimistic that Sonic’s physics will be made just right, citing an internal lack of classic Sonic comprehension.

How can the company that made Sonic Advance not understand how the Genesis games played?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 28, 2010, 07:44:22 pm
I have word, directly from someone that works at Sega... That the Sonic Colours 'leak' on TSSZ is complete guess work and any similarity with the final product will be simply a good guess... Most of it is just blindingly obvious.

And I would say the same is true for this new Sonic 4 leak...

Its just some retard trying to create hits for his site... I know more about the inner workings of what Sega are doing right now then he ever will. But Segabits has taste, were not going just out to get some cheap hits. We'll do it by being better then he is.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on May 28, 2010, 08:31:55 pm
I just read five pages worth of posts. Here I was, thinking I was the delusional one, still day dreaming about my brand new Dreamcast. I totally agree about giving Sonic 4 a shot but I honestly can't understand why most of you keep your hopes up when you know it's quite likely that this game will be bad. Tip: Takashi Iizuka.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on May 28, 2010, 08:41:29 pm
Game looks fine so far... I'm not expecting to play Sonic 2 remastered im expecting to play a HD 2D Sonic game...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2010, 05:16:22 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Game looks fine so far... I'm not expecting to play Sonic 2 remastered im expecting to play a HD 2D Sonic game...

I noticed you didn't say a GOOD HD 2D Sonic game...  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 29, 2010, 07:39:20 am
I'm looking forward to playing a good 2d HD Sonic game, and that looks like what were getting. ;)

also TSSZ is a load of shit. I reccomend we NEVER cite them at this site. They lie to get hits and permaban anyone who makes a comment that questions the validity of a news post. Case in point: I was banned for posting a quote from Steve of Sumo that conflicted with a false tssz news story.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2010, 07:44:27 am
They sound like right cunts they do.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 29, 2010, 07:50:00 am
Now that's something I think we can ALL agree on!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on May 29, 2010, 08:28:16 am
I did not know we still gave a shit about TSSZ...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on June 12, 2010, 06:59:43 am
The new trailer's looking pretty nice.  I was sold once he freed all the animals :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 12, 2010, 08:05:40 am
Jumps seem faster and less floaty. I'll have to watch the trailer while watching a Sonic 3 video to be a ultrageek.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 12, 2010, 08:25:49 am
When Sonic's in the air he maintains that falling animation. It's ridiculously funny.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 12, 2010, 11:33:25 am
Why does he have a falling animation? Why can't he always be a spiky ball?

Also... Screw that homing attack... Seriously, Sega. There's still time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 12, 2010, 12:12:47 pm
In the old games he would simply air walk, which I found funny as well lol

Homing attack seems to work good.. It certainly made the boss fight look easier though.
Still, in Sonic 1 my record for that boss was like 5-8 seconds. So I think it won't make much difference..
But on the regular level it seems to be well implemented. I like it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 12, 2010, 05:06:25 pm
Homing attack...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 12, 2010, 05:29:49 pm
HOMIE ATTACK

(http://http://www.mobileradicals.com/images/thumb/1/16/Toejam_earl.jpg/300px-Toejam_earl.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 12, 2010, 05:39:54 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
HOMIE ATTACK

(http://http://www.mobileradicals.com/images/thumb/1/16/Toejam_earl.jpg/300px-Toejam_earl.jpg)


Awww sheeit hahah. Well played.


Although seriously, I really don't like the looks ofthat homing attack, it just doesn't look like Sonic to me. And before anyone says it, I'm not just whining for the sake of it, I honestly think it looks like it changes the gameplay at a base level. I'm sure that it still might be fun, but so far I still think I'll give this game a miss.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on June 12, 2010, 05:45:34 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
In the old games he would simply air walk, which I found funny as well lol

Homing attack seems to work good.. It certainly made the boss fight look easier though.
Still, in Sonic 1 my record for that boss was like 5-8 seconds. So I think it won't make much difference..
But on the regular level it seems to be well implemented. I like it.

I imagine the boss fight they show in all the videos from the first game will have a few extra phases to it. Make you think it's the same fight, until Eggman's ship does something crazy
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 12, 2010, 07:06:16 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
HOMIE ATTACK

(http://http://www.mobileradicals.com/images/thumb/1/16/Toejam_earl.jpg/300px-Toejam_earl.jpg)


Awww sheeit hahah. Well played.


Although seriously, I really don't like the looks ofthat homing attack, it just doesn't look like Sonic to me. And before anyone says it, I'm not just whining for the sake of it, I honestly think it looks like it changes the gameplay at a base level. I'm sure that it still might be fun, but so far I still think I'll give this game a miss.

As much as a defender of Sonic 4 that I am, I do agree with you. (gasp!) At least in that I wish the homing attack was optional, as in a menu option of "Easy" (homing) and "Hard" (no homing). I also wish that the bosses were immune to the homing attack. Makes it too easy to spam. I know that when I play Sonic 4, I and many others will attempt a non-homing attack playthrough (which AAUK says is nearly possible).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 12, 2010, 07:08:59 pm
The levels are specifically designed around it. They would have to rework much of the level designs to get it to work without it now.

I think if they really MUST have had the homing attack it should have been given to you if you get a blue shield. Kind of like 3D Blast's gold shield. This would open up potential passages for people who pick it up and return to earlier parts of the level or something.

Look, within seconds I came up this. Why is Sonic Team so incompetent?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 12, 2010, 09:44:23 pm
If you're so gifted why don't you program it yourself?

One thing is to add constructive criticism and share ideas, but it's very rude to call people incompetent like that.. :/

I think Homing Attack seems to be well implemented. It sure feels cheap and useless in THE FIRST LEVEL, just like Spin Dash made the first levels of Sonic 2 idiot-proof. Still, if it works good it may be great depending on later level design.
And I won't criticize it until I play it, cause Sonic Unleashed had it and it worked fine (though I wished it wasn't a separated button)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on June 12, 2010, 10:05:57 pm
I'm pretty sure they'll use the homing attack to it's main strength: finding alternate paths through the levels. Sure there will probably be parts where you're required to use it, but I wouldn't be sruprised to shoot up in the air after a ramp to find something open to a homing attack chain leading to a new path.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on June 13, 2010, 02:07:34 am
Guess me and Nux will know Tuesday eh? :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 13, 2010, 02:15:17 am
At this point the homing attack seems like such an issue for some people I think they would be silly to not have a mode where it is turned off.

Of course the complainted over Sonics newer model is still fucking retarded though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on June 13, 2010, 02:35:49 am
I've heard that Iizuka is cutting off the motion control stages from the game. I hope it's true!

 I hope they make huge changes on the final product. I'm still not liking most of the game; especially the music. What the fuck Jun Senoue is doing there? What a retard! Just call Jimita or Bo back! Both of them are not doing nothing these days...

 Also, looks like the homming attack only works on enemies below you. I think you have also to wait a bit until it get a target mark on it.

 The homming attack is not an issue for me. The rest are the main issue, like the animation of Sonic running. It's just ridiculous!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 13, 2010, 03:55:29 am
I was not looking forward to this for the longest time but the fact they are making changes and putting off the release is making me come around.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Team Andromeda on June 13, 2010, 03:58:04 am
The game is looking good, and for SEGA to put a SONIC game back for quality reasons  is a massive step forward.

SEGA needs to let people download the E3 demo pronto too
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 13, 2010, 10:06:25 am
Quote from: "STORM!"
I've heard that Iizuka is cutting off the motion control stages from the game. I hope it's true!

 I hope they make huge changes on the final product. I'm still not liking most of the game; especially the music. What the fuck Jun Senoue is doing there? What a retard! Just call Jimita or Bo back! Both of them are not doing nothing these days...

 Also, looks like the homming attack only works on enemies below you. I think you have also to wait a bit until it get a target mark on it.

 The homming attack is not an issue for me. The rest are the main issue, like the animation of Sonic running. It's just ridiculous!
What the fuck Jun Senoue is awesome!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 13, 2010, 10:07:22 am
As for the Sonic model, I liked it best in the Sonic CD days. The anime styling used to be great.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on June 13, 2010, 01:27:20 pm
 Jun Senoue is pure shit! What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 13, 2010, 01:42:38 pm
What are you talking about man! Jun Senoue makes awesome music is a great guitarist. He made an incredible job in Sonic Adventure 2!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on June 13, 2010, 01:47:12 pm
Crush 40's music is amongst the worst for the entire Sonic franchise. Just getting that out there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on June 13, 2010, 01:49:49 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
What are you talking about man! Jun Senoue makes awesome music is a great guitarist. He made an incredible job in Sonic Adventure 2!

 No, he didn't! He made some of the worst boss themes ever! His musics don't fit with Sonic.

 And now he is doing badder than ever on Sonic 4...

 He has some good tracks, though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 13, 2010, 02:43:04 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Crush 40's music is amongst the worst for the entire Sonic franchise. Just getting that out there.

This, coming from somebody who considers Bentley Jones the true sound of Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 13, 2010, 03:42:22 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
No, he didn't! He made some of the worst boss themes ever! His musics don't fit with Sonic.

 And now he is doing badder than ever on Sonic 4...

 He has some good tracks, though.
I love the dude ever since those rocking guitar licks in Daytona USA.

I think the rock-heavy soundtrack fitted Sonic Adventure 2 greatly. It's one of the things that makes it my favorite Sonic game ever.
I do understand some people don't like rock in their Sonic, but I think it's way better than most music.

As for Sonic 4 I haven't heard much of it's soundtrack. But since I've liked Jun's work so far, I'm trusting I may like it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 13, 2010, 05:39:57 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Crush 40's music is amongst the worst for the entire Sonic franchise. Just getting that out there.

I have to mirror Barry's reaction here, I thought that would be the kinda thing you loved.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 13, 2010, 07:13:03 pm
Crush 40 (and Jun Senoue) are awesome.  :afroman:

Like, OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE NOT AS GOOD AS BENTLEY JONES, but they are still good.

Seriously though, why the Crush 40 hate?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 13, 2010, 09:44:19 pm
Crush 40's biggest problem is that all of their songs sound exactly the same, seriously.

But they are nowhere near the worst... While Bentley is one of the worst IMO, he is not as bad as some of the bands that Sonic Team has worked with in the past, like Zeebrahead and Rumble Bee.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 13, 2010, 09:55:07 pm
ARGH ZEBRAHEAD
They actually had one really cool orchestral song, but everything else was shit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 14, 2010, 12:16:57 am
In SA2 the music that did fit better than anything else for me were the ska songs for some of sonics stages and his theme. They really capture his attitude and energy I think.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 14, 2010, 03:03:55 am
I honestly haven't liked ANY of the Sonic tunes with lyrics bar this one, which feels Sonicy to me.
[youtube:mku68i1u]8pTMv3t9GCw[/youtube:mku68i1u]

And maybe this one, for Nostalgia. It's good but it's not really 'Sonicy' to me.
[youtube:mku68i1u]qH_MCPcjxP0[/youtube:mku68i1u]


But the others are all corny rubbish by people that may actually be tone deaf... The Sonic 06 and Sonic Heroes ones were probably the worst offenders... boy did they suck. I'm sure Shadow probably had something equally crap.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 14, 2010, 06:14:53 am
I'm alright with Jun. It's Sonic 4's soundtrack that is shit. All the tunes are annoying and sound just about the same. He can do better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 07:32:44 am
Sonic Heroes had one of the most corny yet addictive main themes ever. The rest of the music was all forgettable..

I think Hard Rock goes along really well with Sonic. Times change, too many Sonic-y music in SA2 would be boring. SA2's music variety was the right way to go. Lately Sonic music has been...mediocre.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on June 14, 2010, 10:15:43 am
Something is wrong... something feels off... I do not know what it is!
I just feel something is not fun and wrong from the latest footage.

Do not get me wrong, I am not nitpicking or trying to find faults, it is just that I do not feel Sonic 4 for some reason.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on June 14, 2010, 02:47:47 pm
Quote from: "Pao"
Something is wrong... something feels off... I do not know what it is!
I just feel something is not fun and wrong from the latest footage.

Do not get me wrong, I am not nitpicking or trying to find faults, it is just that I do not feel Sonic 4 for some reason.

it's the crap level design and art if I may draw your attention to that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 14, 2010, 03:10:42 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
too many Sonic-y music in SA2 would be boring.
its a sonic the hedgehog game
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 03:24:39 pm
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
Quote from: "crackdude"
too many Sonic-y music in SA2 would be boring.
its a sonic the hedgehog game
I meant those happy happy chippy tunes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 14, 2010, 03:25:47 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
Quote from: "crackdude"
too many Sonic-y music in SA2 would be boring.
its a sonic the hedgehog game
I meant those happy happy chippy tunes.

It's a family game staring a blue hedgehog.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 14, 2010, 03:46:44 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "crackdude"
I meant those happy happy chippy tunes.

It's a family game staring a blue hedgehog.

NO, SHADOW IS SERIOUS

TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY

HE IS THE ULTIMATE
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 04:40:37 pm
Sonic Adventure 2 is not a family game. It's not a game anyone can pick up and play.
It's a 3D action game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 14, 2010, 04:54:10 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic Adventure 2 is not a family game. It's not a game anyone can pick up and play.
It's a 3D action game.

So basically Sonic Team forgot what Sonic was made for.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 07:03:23 pm
Sonic was made for families?
"Family games" is a very new concept. Sonic came out to be the most action packed platforming game of it's time! It had the best graphics, the fastest gameplay and the most exciting design. It was the Modern Warfare 2 of 1991, a mass appealing hardcore game.

In 2001 rock and hiphop music was most appealing, so they went with rock and hiphop and whatnot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 14, 2010, 07:10:30 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic was made for families?
"Family games" is a very new concept. Sonic came out to be the most action packed platforming game of it's time! It had the best graphics, the fastest gameplay and the most exciting design. It was the Modern Warfare 2 of 1991, a mass appealing hardcore game.

In 2001 rock and hiphop music was most appealing, so they went with rock and hiphop and whatnot.

Sonic was made so that anyone could play it, hence the use of one button most of the time, that was the core design behind Sonic the Hedgehog. It was pretty much open for any member of the family to play it, or should I say most.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 07:34:11 pm
That isn't the point.. SA2 only uses 2 buttons.

When Sonic first came out it was a cool game. SA2 was a cool game as well.
Hell, Golden Axe was family friendly and was about slaughtering people.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on June 14, 2010, 07:36:53 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Hell, Golden Axe was family friendly and was about slaughtering people.
And being gangbanged by two skeletons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 14, 2010, 07:53:18 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
That isn't the point.. SA2 only uses 2 buttons.

Wrong. You also use the Y button to change your X or B actions, the triggers for the camera. You had new moves the characters had to learn that did all kinds of different things and the game offered new sections like spinning on pipes and grinding. Not just this but it had multiple play styles that needed to be learned that all had different kinds of goals, and even the introduction of a health bar. This is all significantly more complicated than the Genesis titles.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on June 14, 2010, 09:06:10 pm
Sonic Adventure 2 did what you should never do in a Sonic game. Not be fun. No one wants to play as other characters, Tails/Eggman had horrible levels and so did Knuckles and Rogue. They also make up more than 50% of the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 09:50:11 pm
What the fuck is everyone talking about, SA2 is a pretty simple 3D action game.
There was no need to change the actions with the Y button during normal gameplay..
And what about Sonic 3 which had a ton of gameplay changing power-ups, various special stages, various characters, snowboarding parts, that casino level jump thing that everyone gets stuck on..
If I really want to argue about this I'll start complaining that in Sonic 3 you have to use button combinations and timed presses to spindash at full speed.

And I had lots of fun with Knuckles stages, that's a matter of opinion. I n«know people that love Eggman stages and I found them boring. Overall the gameplay was diverse and balanced.

EDIT: Health bar?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on June 14, 2010, 10:12:48 pm
The only fun levels where the Sonic and Shadow levels. Even that got frustrating when you got into space. Game was a disaster compared to the first one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 14, 2010, 10:23:49 pm
Quote from: "George"
The only fun levels where the Sonic and Shadow levels. Even that got frustrating when you got into space. Game was a disaster compared to the first one.
cofcameracoffishingcofadventurezonescof

I'm kidding, I loved the first one as well.
But Sonic Adventure 2 was NOT a disaster by far. At the time it was praised by the critics, praised by the fans. It somehow managed to be one of the best Dreamcast and GAMECUBE games of all!

It was different, not worse. I thought it was only gonna get better from there on. Hell, I bought Heroes on day-one.
Sonic Adventure 2 was the last great Sonic game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 15, 2010, 03:50:03 am
I remember being pretty frustrated with Knuckles'/Rouge's stages. So yeah. It wasn't that good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 15, 2010, 04:37:31 am
I enjoyed the knuckles rouge stages after a second go. I dont like the eggman tails stages more than anything though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 15, 2010, 07:38:30 am
I enjoyed all the stages during the first playthrough, mostly because I was really digging the story. Second playthrough I was neutral on the treasure stages and was bored of the shooting stages. Since then, I played the Sonic/Shadow stages plenty, and hardly touched the others.

I'll admit, controlling Eggman was a thrill.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on June 15, 2010, 10:59:03 am
SA2 generally had me playing the first level with sonic (in SF with that awful Bentley Jones song) over and over trying to get an AAA rank.

In-fact that's still my favourite sonic level of all time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 15, 2010, 11:06:58 am
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
SA2 generally had me playing the first level with sonic (in SF with that awful Bentley Jones song) over and over trying to get an AAA rank.

In-fact that's still my favourite sonic level of all time.
Same here!

Rolling around at the speed of sound!
Got places to go now
gotta FOLLOW MY RAINBOW!!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 15, 2010, 06:34:59 pm
[youtube:1anxur19]2HTT4ji3HJo[/youtube:1anxur19]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 15, 2010, 06:36:07 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
SA2 generally had me playing the first level with sonic (in SF with that awful Bentley Jones song)


That was not Bentley Jones. It was Ted Poley and Jun Senoue.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 15, 2010, 08:45:49 pm
Video was posted above, but read the positive impressions to go with it:
http://toucharcade.com/2010/06/15/e3-20 ... s-sonic-4/ (http://toucharcade.com/2010/06/15/e3-2010-hands-on-with-segas-sonic-4/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: matty on June 16, 2010, 02:42:39 am
Not sure if I'm gonna like Sonic just being in an airborne stance than staying in a spindash motion when he's in the air. It seems to work so far, but still...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 17, 2010, 07:56:41 pm
Here's a developer walkthrough for Sonic 4 from E3
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... c-4/700440 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-sonic-4/700440)

Looks wonderful. It sounds like the console and iPhone versions each get exclusive content.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fernandeath on June 18, 2010, 04:55:35 am
Let's vote on Sonic 4 on 'gamepost:

http://e3.gamespot.com/games.html?page=13 (http://e3.gamespot.com/games.html?page=13)

So far the game has only 471votes!

See the 'top 10' list clicking here:
http://e3.gamespot.com/games.html?mode=mostpopular (http://e3.gamespot.com/games.html?mode=mostpopular)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 18, 2010, 12:19:13 pm
Episode 1 is going to be $10-$15?

http://http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-sonic-4-looking-to-be-priced-between-10-and-15--176703.phtml

Seems expensive for just 4 zones.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 18, 2010, 06:14:54 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Episode 1 is going to be $10-$15?

http://http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-sonic-4-looking-to-be-priced-between-10-and-15--176703.phtml

Seems expensive for just 4 zones.

That's not too bad. I'd be willing to pay $10-15 for the title.
Plus you'll definitely get your money's worth with multiple playthroughs, getting all the Chaos Emeralds, etc.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 18, 2010, 06:51:51 pm
Ehh, that's not too bad I guess. 800 to 1200 points is fair 'nuff.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 18, 2010, 09:34:09 pm
No more than 8 bucks per episode please! I think the price of all episodes combined should be 40 bucks. In my mind they'd release 5. Then have a 30 buck pack with all of them after a while.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 19, 2010, 07:12:14 am
Really negative GoNintendo impressions:

http://http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127207

Quote
I feel horrible saying it, but everything about the way Sonic controller felt wrong. His moves seemed rather slow...his rotation during his jumps wasn't up to snuff with older games...the physics for running along tracks just didn't make sense. Worst of all, having the homing jump in this game made everything far too easy. You could just flop from spring to computer, enemy to swinging vine. It felt like the homing attack just took out all the skill and platforming elements that classic Sonic games had.

The one thing positive I can say is that the level design was pretty nice. There were lots of paths to take and places to explore, so you had plenty of options for reaching your goal. I actually believe that poor level design could be an issue that would trump the details I discussed above. If SEGA can really clean up all that other stuff, I don't see why this title couldn't be a great outing. Unfortunately, it seems that SEGA has forgotten what made classic Sonic so much fun.

Everything in this quote is the truth.

I wish more sites would write impressions like this. Instead of crappy fake impressions like "SONIC MOVES FAST AND IS 2D SO IT MUST BE GOOD!!!". Really, if there were more negative impressions around, maybe it'll sink in to SEGA and they'll delay it even more until they get it right.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 19, 2010, 07:50:38 am
Even Nintendo fans realise the homing attack is horrible in a 2D game. :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 19, 2010, 01:09:17 pm
They are Nintendo fans what do they know.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 19, 2010, 07:23:17 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Really negative GoNintendo impressions:

http://http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127207


Everything in this quote is the truth.

I wish more sites would write impressions like this. Instead of crappy fake impressions like "SONIC MOVES FAST AND IS 2D SO IT MUST BE GOOD!!!". Really, if there were more negative impressions around, maybe it'll sink in to SEGA and they'll delay it even more until they get it right.

YEAH! Why are all the REAL critics singing out of tune! Everyone should listen to this amateur Nintendo blog! There word > everyone else’s.

I cannot even beguine to say if it will be a good game or not (I haven’t played it.)... But I have heard very good impressions from the show floor from people that did, like Nuckles.

What is to say these Nintendo goons aren’t just echoing the dipshits on Neogaf?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on June 19, 2010, 07:27:00 pm
Everyone at screwattack likes the game

here is the impressions from the biggest Sonic fan at screw attack

http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben (http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 19, 2010, 07:32:59 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Everyone at screwattack likes the game

here is the impressions from the biggest Sonic fan at screw attack

http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben (http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben)

I do hope his nitpics get fixed.

I agree with them even if they are minor... the jump one really Does need fixing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 19, 2010, 07:45:41 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Really negative GoNintendo impressions:

http://http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127207


Everything in this quote is the truth.

I wish more sites would write impressions like this. Instead of crappy fake impressions like "SONIC MOVES FAST AND IS 2D SO IT MUST BE GOOD!!!". Really, if there were more negative impressions around, maybe it'll sink in to SEGA and they'll delay it even more until they get it right.

YEAH! Why are all the REAL critics singing out of tune! Everyone should listen to this amateur Nintendo blog! There word > everyone else’s.


Funny how this site hates big name game journalists and sites until they say something nice about Sonic.  :afroman:

It'll be interesting to see if the Homing attack really is that bad though. I guess I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 19, 2010, 08:01:09 pm
The homing attack is an optional move, so if you just want to play with normal jumps you'll be able to do so.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 19, 2010, 08:08:06 pm
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
The homing attack is an optional move, so if you just want to play with normal jumps you'll be able to do so.

You'll see the optional when they make you cross bottomless pits by hitting consecutive enemies using the homing attack. Fuck it, it should've never left the 3D games. That was a stupid decision and even Nintendo fans can see it. Get your act together, Iizuka.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 19, 2010, 08:48:16 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
The homing attack is an optional move, so if you just want to play with normal jumps you'll be able to do so.

You'll see the optional when they make you cross bottomless pits by hitting consecutive enemies using the homing attack. Fuck it, it should've never left the 3D games. That was a stupid decision and even Nintendo fans can see it. Get your act together, Iizuka.

Where has there been bottomless pits that were crossed via homing attacks? I haven't seen any thus far.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 19, 2010, 09:32:53 pm
I don't even mind the homing attack in this game.

Quote from: "Sharky"
YEAH! Why are all the REAL critics singing out of tune! Everyone should listen to this amateur Nintendo blog! There word > everyone else’s.
ALL gaming "journalists" are amateurs! :lol: *shot*

But seriously, he's like the only guy that wrote a preview actually analyzing the game. Sites like IGN and Gamespot were all "Hey it's Sonic! And it's 2D! So it's good!" without actually going into detail.

And you can tell by the videos that the physics are noticeably bad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 20, 2010, 03:29:15 am
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"

Where has there been bottomless pits that were crossed via homing attacks? I haven't seen any thus far.
*looks at every sonic the hedgehog game ever with a homing attack*....*begins to cry*
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 06:36:17 am
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"

Where has there been bottomless pits that were crossed via homing attacks? I haven't seen any thus far.
*looks at every sonic the hedgehog game ever with a homing attack*....*begins to cry*

This. Besides, I probably can't even get rid of that stupid gigantic aim that's over every single thing in the game world.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 07:12:05 am
Geez so much nitpicking because of a stupid Nintendo's boy complaint..

"You'll see the optional when they make you cross bottomless pits by hitting consecutive enemies using the homing attack. "
This was also true before homing attack, with enemies/disappearing platforms.

Just relax guys. It looks like it's coming out alright overall. It looks fun..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 07:17:12 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Geez so much nitpicking because of a stupid Nintendo's boy complaint..

"You'll see the optional when they make you cross bottomless pits by hitting consecutive enemies using the homing attack. "
This was also true before homing attack, with enemies/disappearing platforms.

You can't "travel" through the air in the games without the homing attack. Disappearing platforms is another business, it's called platforming and not auto-pilot.

Quote
Just relax guys. It looks like it's coming out alright overall. It looks fun..

Well, yeah. It looks. I'm willing to give it a shot but this is Sonic 4 and it's not being treated as such.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 07:37:03 am
I just don't get what's wrong with this to not be a Sonic 4.
It has great graphics, 2D gameplay, special stages, Boss Fights, fast paced platforming.. It's just like the old ones. I'm not getting what's wrong with it... Homing Attack could be great or awful. But until I try it, it just seems like a valid new gameplay feature, like spin dash was in 2 and flying was in 2/3 and power ups was in 3.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 20, 2010, 07:44:41 am
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"

Where has there been bottomless pits that were crossed via homing attacks? I haven't seen any thus far.
*looks at every sonic the hedgehog game ever with a homing attack*....*begins to cry*

Oh, if that's what we're going to compare them to then I'm going to have a blast with Sonic  4. I have yet to play a Sonic game I did not enjoy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 07:49:54 am
I'm guessing you skipped every home console Sonic game since Adventure 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 09:06:38 am
Sonic 06 entered the so bad it's good category.

The games can be enjoyable and not good.. Or the other way around, Sonic Heroes was good but I didn't enjoy it all that much.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 09:20:23 am
Angry Video Game Nerd calling Sonic 4's homing attack "not bad":
http://http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-screwattack/700393

I don't know if he actually got to play it though..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 20, 2010, 09:39:00 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 06 entered the so bad it's good category.

No. It enters the 'It's so bad it transcends human understanding and haunts your nightmares forever' category.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 09:39:21 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Angry Video Game Nerd calling Sonic 4's homing attack "not bad":
http://http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-screwattack/700393

I don't know if he actually got to play it though..

He doesn't even know what it is. He even calls it "new move". Hardy an opinion to take into account.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SufferLikeGDid on June 20, 2010, 10:42:35 am
Everyone knows he's more into Mario games. At least he was content with the game even if he didn't know a lot about it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 11:12:25 am
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Angry Video Game Nerd calling Sonic 4's homing attack "not bad":
http://http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-screwattack/700393

I don't know if he actually got to play it though..

He doesn't even know what it is. He even calls it "new move". Hardy an opinion to take into account.
That's cause it IS a new move. Sonic 3 didn't have it.
When you think of Homing Attack you think of the god awful system used in Sonic 06 or whatever. But it is pretty new stuff in 2D Sonic games, so I don't believe there's a way to guess how good/bad does it work.

If a guy who didn't even knew what it was says it's not bad, then how much more unbiased opinion do you want?

Still, that doesn't mean it's good either. I just don't believe it will be game-breaking. The auto-aim squares all over the place do get on my nerves.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 11:24:40 am
It's a ten year old move created to help improve the gameplay in a three dimensional video game. It's not new.

Play this: http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Megamix (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Megamix)

It will give you a good idea of how the gameplay will turn out. Mash the jump button and leave the game in auto-pilot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 11:33:40 am
It's new in 2D Sonic games, as I said.

And please tell me you're not basing your opinion about this on a fanmade rom hack..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 20, 2010, 12:00:33 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
I'm guessing you skipped every home console Sonic game since Adventure 2.

Nope, I've played every single one of Sonic's console outings. (I haven't played the Rush, Chronicles or Rivals games on the handhelds)
I have enjoyed every Sonic game I have played.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 12:13:23 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
It's new in 2D Sonic games, as I said.

And please tell me you're not basing your opinion about this on a fanmade rom hack..

Read my previous post. It will give you an idea. Do you honestly think Sonic Team can achieve any better though? Haha... Either way, it's better of an opinion than saying the homing attack is fine from a bunch of videos. A lot of games look good and play bad. Let's just wait and see.  :roll:

Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
Nope, I've played every single one of Sonic's console outings. (I haven't played the Rush, Chronicles or Rivals games on the handhelds)
I have enjoyed every Sonic game I have played.

I envy your ability to endure through bad games. My salute to you, sir.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 20, 2010, 02:20:54 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
It's new in 2D Sonic games, as I said.

And please tell me you're not basing your opinion about this on a fanmade rom hack..

It is in Sonic Advance 2 and 3, the Rush games and some of the other newer handheld releases. It has always helped bring down the quality of those games and has been forced in almost every release now because it is practically iconic now.

Like I said previously, If they must have had it at all, they could have given it to you if you get a shield instead. That way it would be optional and the player would be able to return to past sections for exploration.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on June 20, 2010, 02:33:39 pm
For me, homming attack is not the issue here, since I loved that "semi-homming attack" in Sonic & Knuckles. Yeah, Sonic was performing this move since the past.

 The main issues are the graphics, sounds and animations. It's just 30/40 sec. of music, and no good rythm... ;__;
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 20, 2010, 02:46:05 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
For me, homming attack is not the issue here, since I loved that "semi-homming attack" in Sonic & Knuckles. Yeah, Sonic was performing this move since the past.

 The main issues are the graphics, sounds and animations. It's just 30/40 sec. of music, and no good rythm... ;__;

Well all of those are issues as well, but the homing attack significantly impacts the quality of the platforming and level design as a whole.

And do you mean the Insta-Shield? I loved that in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, it was an excellent addition to Sonic's character and was only really used for technical and badass moves that could change how high he bounced or went through enemies. Sonic Team nowadays probably thinks it was just used by Sonic trying to change into Super Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 20, 2010, 02:49:24 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
It's new in 2D Sonic games, as I said.

And please tell me you're not basing your opinion about this on a fanmade rom hack..

It is in Sonic Advance 2 and 3, the Rush games and some of the other newer handheld releases. It has always helped bring down the quality of those games and has been forced in almost every release now because it is practically iconic now.

Like I said previously, If they must have had it at all, they could have given it to you if you get a shield instead. That way it would be optional and the player would be able to return to past sections for exploration.
I'm positive Sonic Advance 2 does not have homing attack. It only has some slash attack in the air, but you have to be real close to the enemy for it to work. And it was useless in Sonic Rush.

A shield like in Sonic 3D? That would be nice, yes.

Look Orta, I'm not saying that it's going to be the best thing ever. I just have no idea how it works until I try it. And until then it seems like a pretty normal gameplay function, and don't see nothing to get worked up about right now.

And why so much talk about Sonic Team when it's Dimps that's making the game? O_o
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 02:58:32 pm
Dimps doesn't have any say in design and such. They only do the programming they are asked to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on June 20, 2010, 03:00:50 pm
Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[youtube:3kh0en5c]HxQkBtfv02g[/youtube:3kh0en5c]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 20, 2010, 05:41:01 pm
Hyper Sonic doesn't have the homing attack. He has a boost, in some way similar to the one the fire shield gives. The move also destroys every badnik on the screen. It's more like a bonus for being good at the game rather than the main element of gameplay.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 20, 2010, 08:15:39 pm
The first game where you could use a move similar to the homing attack was Sonic 3D Blast with the yellow shield.

Anywho, Sonic 4 is looking to be a fabulous game. I can't wait to play it this fall. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 21, 2010, 03:51:57 am
(http://http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif)

Yep.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on June 21, 2010, 04:57:12 am
Looking alright, I wish they would just scrap the homing attack idea.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on June 21, 2010, 02:54:40 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
(http://http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif)

Yep.

Am I the only one who thinks that's technically an awesome glitch? I mean, it makes sense that he could do that.  :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 21, 2010, 03:01:19 pm
Is that even a glitch? I have always wished you could just do that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 21, 2010, 03:08:40 pm
You have always wished to not go around the loop da loops in the game? That is like... One of the core elements of what makes Sonic, Sonic and not Mario. The ability to build up momentuam to progress through the levels.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on June 21, 2010, 03:39:57 pm
What he means is, given the 2-D perspective you are at, you should be able to drop down without having to do the loop-de-loop. You never could before. I mean, yea. I'd rather do the loop-de-loop but if something has stopped my momentum, why not just drop down?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 21, 2010, 03:42:27 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
What he means is, given the 2-D perspective you are at, you should be able to drop down without having to do the loop-de-loop. You never could before. I mean, yea. I'd rather do the loop-de-loop but if something has stopped my momentum, why not just drop down?

The whole idea was one needed sufficient momentum to carry them through.

Also, the spindash was introduced for a reason.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 21, 2010, 03:44:44 pm
Quote
I mean, yea. I'd rather do the loop-de-loop but if something has stopped my momentum, why not just drop down?

Then why even bother having the loop at all? It might as well be a cliff if you could just drop down like that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on June 21, 2010, 05:06:16 pm
From Sonic's perspective, it is. I'd have to draw it to show you what I mean. Basically, I'm saying it's not a bad glitch cuz from the perspective you're at, that's what could happen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 21, 2010, 06:59:03 pm
I remember when I was a kid, and I had just gotten hit by an enemy before a loop and couldn't do it right way, thinking "duuude, why doesn't Sonic just jumps sideways?"

You could do the loop anyway, but if you don't have enough momentum just jump to the other side. It's nice.
Though I know that it is now a "trademark" of the game you having to really go through the loop, it wouldn't hurt if they had eased it up a bit when Sonic 1 was made..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 21, 2010, 07:13:58 pm
The loop should be an obstacle. Not a decoration. If you don't have enough momentum, you should run back and gain some, or just use the spindash.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 21, 2010, 07:53:12 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The loop should be an obstacle. Not a decoration. If you don't have enough momentum, you should run back and gain some, or just use the spindash.
oh, I never thought that way.. Then Sonic 4 needs to be fixed I guess..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on June 21, 2010, 09:43:34 pm
I thought that kind of game logic trickery was possible in the Genesis games, too. @_@

Oh well, that's something for speed runners to take note of I suppose. The rest of us probably won't care.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 21, 2010, 10:07:54 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
I thought that kind of game logic trickery was possible in the Genesis games, too. @_@

Oh well, that's something for speed runners to take note of I suppose. The rest of us probably won't care.
Actually, if you're on a speed run the best thing to do is to jump when you're at the highest point of the loop, at the point where the loop's tangent is parallel to the ground. This will make Sonic impulse itself on to the ground at high speed (jump+gravity). In fact if you press down while in middle of the fall Sonic will hit the end of the loop and spindash at high speed forward.

You can see a nice example of this @ 0:20
[youtube:271owb0u]d3mY3PFvYoI[/youtube:271owb0u]

Oh yes. In my prime the world record was merely 2 seconds away from me. All due to that damned rock right at the beginning of the level with the crabs and shit. Damn rock.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on June 21, 2010, 10:14:34 pm
Ahhh, right... excellent point, crackdude. ^__^ That makes sense.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 24, 2010, 03:14:54 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"

Oh well, that's something for speed runners to take note of I suppose. The rest of us probably won't care.

True, and the demo at E3 might have been an earlier build of the game too. I'm sure Sonic 4 will be tweaked to excellence by the time it is released.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fernandeath on June 25, 2010, 07:01:17 am
Gamespot's 'today on the spot' is about this game. Check it out:

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on- ... slot;img;1 (http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?tag=topslot;img;1)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 25, 2010, 09:33:22 am
Thanks for the video. =)

It was great seeing Jun Senoue jamming on the piano.
I also loved that he played the Seaside Hill theme. ^_^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 28, 2010, 09:02:49 am
I dont think these were posted,

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen001.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen002.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen003.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen004.jpg)

Got to say I always enjoy high res Sonic... Scuffed shoes for the win!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on June 28, 2010, 11:04:16 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
I dont think these were posted,

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen001.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen002.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen003.jpg)

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen004.jpg)

Got to say I always enjoy high res Sonic... Scuffed shoes for the win!
Indeed, this green eyes Sonic looks pretty good! ^__^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 28, 2010, 11:41:24 am
Those pictures are excellent.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 28, 2010, 05:41:41 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I dont think these were posted,

(http://http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/165/972791_20100615_790screen002.jpg)

Why so serious?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 28, 2010, 05:57:30 pm
He's determined.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 28, 2010, 06:47:40 pm
They look great outside of his mouth which is not supposed to be naturally on the side of his face, but because he is smirking! Always more proof of Sonic Team's retardation, I suppose!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 28, 2010, 06:51:05 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
They look great outside of his mouth which is not supposed to be naturally on the side of his face, but because he is smirking! Always more proof of Sonic Team's retardation, I suppose!

It's a stylistic choice.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 28, 2010, 07:00:27 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
They look great outside of his mouth which is not supposed to be naturally on the side of his face, but because he is smirking! Always more proof of Sonic Team's retardation, I suppose!
Really?... REALLY? fuck the sonic fanbase is just getting silly.

I'm pretty sure it was ALWAYS on the side of his face... In fact I'm pretty sure it looked a bit stupid when it was in the middle for a few years on games like Sonic Riders.

I'm not sure where 'fans' became the character designers.

(http://http://www.segabits.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/weekendreading1.jpg)
(http://http://images.discoazul.com/images/sonic1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 28, 2010, 07:04:06 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
They look great outside of his mouth which is not supposed to be naturally on the side of his face, but because he is smirking! Always more proof of Sonic Team's retardation, I suppose!
Really?... REALLY? fuck the sonic fanbase is just getting silly.

I'm pretty sure it was ALWAYS on the side of his face... In fact I'm pretty sure it looked a bit stupid when it was in the middle for a few years on games like Sonic Riders.

I'm not sure where 'fans' became the character designers.

This is true, in a lot of the Sonic artwork he's had the mouth on the side.
(http://http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/Megadrive/thumbs/SonicGenesis_Art1_Run.png)

(http://http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/Other/thumbs/sonicxtreme3.png)

(http://http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/Sonic_Adventure_1/thumbs/s_d3.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 28, 2010, 07:08:37 pm
basically all classic official sonic artwork from sonic team that i can find.

I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 28, 2010, 07:51:50 pm
(http://http://www.eslaultima.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_0.jpg)
yep. Ever since always.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 28, 2010, 11:12:15 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.

You sound distressed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 28, 2010, 11:36:53 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.

You sound distressed.
(http://http://www.hiddenpalacezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/video-games-are-serious-business.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 29, 2010, 01:42:10 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
They look great outside of his mouth which is not supposed to be naturally on the side of his face, but because he is smirking! Always more proof of Sonic Team's retardation, I suppose!
Really?... REALLY? fuck the sonic fanbase is just getting silly.

I'm pretty sure it was ALWAYS on the side of his face... In fact I'm pretty sure it looked a bit stupid when it was in the middle for a few years on games like Sonic Riders.

I'm not sure where 'fans' became the character designers.

basically all classic official sonic artwork from sonic team that i can find.

I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.

Wow, I was just saying I thought a design choice was stupid and you freaked out bad. Seriously, are you going to defend everything Sonic Team ever does while calling everyone else stupid or are you going to at least listen to any of their points ever?

It is not an artistic choice, it is a dumb change that Sonic Team never realized they fucked up. All of the images people used as a reference are poses. It is like saying Dick Cheney never once smiled because you base your information on basically every image of him in the negative press ever.

I have nothing wrong with him smirking. I think the toothy grin makes him look like a stupid annoying ass at times, but it is not a big deal at all, and certainly did not make me dislike any of his Dreamcast games any less than I did.

My point is that Sonic Team has changed his design in a retarded way. Look at Sonic CD, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2... Everything else he talks in before Sonic Heroes was released. His mouth moved properly and he would use the trademark smirk when he was in a specific mood or doing a specific action which should enable it. Going from a normal face to a smirk was one of the absolute most obvious thing that was ripped off from him constantly in the early 1990s, with all of those mascot-like games. You of all people should be able to understand this, even SUMO Digital does, but you rather freak out and call me stupid. Good game Sharky!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 29, 2010, 04:57:00 am
you guys are silly
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 29, 2010, 05:47:39 am
Uranus, Sharky never called you stupid, though he did call you silly. Which you are, you silly man you! >_<
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 29, 2010, 06:33:41 am
This is a really silly conversation. We're talking about what? 10/20 pixels on screen?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 29, 2010, 07:35:45 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Uranus, Sharky never called you stupid, though he did call you silly. Which you are, you silly man you! >_<

He called my points stupid and stressed it by swearing to get his view across. It was in his quote I used twice so I figured it was obvious.

Quote from: "crackdude"
This is a really silly conversation. We're talking about what? 10/20 pixels on screen?

That is a really silly response. What were you talking about in that Soccer topic? 1/2 inches in a replay?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on June 29, 2010, 07:57:19 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.

You sound distressed.

You're not a gamer, you wouldn't understand.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 29, 2010, 08:01:02 am
Sanus listen to yourself... All the way back to classic Sonic 1 Sonics mouth has been on the side of his face that was facing you... And lets pretend for a moment that isnt the case, it isnt like the character design hasnt changed since Sonic 1 in other areas.

Jesus christ I can't believe people are making a fuss about this.


Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think this is just highlights how hard people are trying to nitpick at stupid fucking shit that doesnt even make sense.

You sound distressed.
Suprise Suprise! Mademans arrived to make me look bad.

What is your problem... I'm far more distressed that every time I seem to say anything in this thread you are there to be a dick about it.

Unless of course I agree that everything Sonic related is shit...

 Back off you condescending prick.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 29, 2010, 08:10:24 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
This is a really silly conversation. We're talking about what? 10/20 pixels on screen?

That is a really silly response. What were you talking about in that Soccer topic? 1/2 inches in a replay?
That makes a difference. Sonic's stupid smile doesn't.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 29, 2010, 09:19:08 am
Quote
Quote from: "Sharky"
You sound distressed.
Suprise Suprise! Mademans arrived to make me look bad.

What is your problem... I'm far more distressed that every time I seem to say anything in this thread you are there to be a dick about it.

Unless of course I agree that everything Sonic related is shit...

 Back off you condescending prick.

To quote Jimmy McNulty
'What the fuck did I do?'

(http://http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/2/26/1267194983508/Dominic-West-as-Jimmy-McN-002.jpg)

This game is really causing a lot more stress than I think it should be. Sharky, I'm sorry if I offended you, but you were really going off at Sanus just then. You did seem distressed, and I was making a joke about how riled up people were getting over this. I think we all need to chill out a little bit here.

I get along with Sharky quite well under most circumstances, and I don't want this game to start causing a rift between members. Can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on June 29, 2010, 10:02:55 am
No dude, I said nothing about Sanus at all I was talking about the Sonic fanbase in general are picking at the most trivial shit that nobody had a problem with before... Like Sonics eyes and now his mouth being on the side... Like it has ALWAYS been... Come the fuck on people. At no point did I address Sanus directly but he said himself he's a big sonic fan and he is the one complaining about the most trivial rubbish. Am I not aloud to disagree now?

As for what you did, you did what you always do... Throw little digs my way trying to wind me up, weather it's about my opinion on a game or how I 'only ever play Sega games' or even my spelling... Until I'm sick of it and I call you out. Then you quickly retreat to the high road where you throw out some 'voice of reason' bullshit about we all need to pull it together and not argue over petty things. A few days later you’ll start digging at me again over… Petty things.

I’m far more distressed about staff ‘side taking’ on the forum and not pull their weight on the blog.

P.S Enjoy complaining about me with Sanus and Aki on messenger.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 29, 2010, 11:41:52 am
Let's calm down. ^^"

The point is that aspect of Sonic's character design has never changed. Sonic 4: Episode I is going to be amazing so let us all focus on that. =)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 29, 2010, 01:06:51 pm
Cmon guys, let's not stress out. Healthy discussion and name-calling only ;D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on June 29, 2010, 01:18:39 pm
Y'know what I hate? Those stupid white gloves of his!! Why'd Sonic Team have to go and change things by giving him white gloves?!! Why I remember back in the day when (Ooohhh. Those have always been there.) NM then. 8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ribbitking17 on June 29, 2010, 04:13:27 pm
Hey Sharky I heard Mademan says you stink!
ooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on June 29, 2010, 05:38:54 pm
I think complaining about a 'smile' on Sonic is bullshit as well. I'm sure Sonic 06 could have looked like Genesis Sonic in 3D and still suck.
Quote from: "ribbitking17"
Hey Sharky I heard Mademan says you stink!
ooooooooooooo
In Mademan's defense, its true. Sharky hardly showers.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 30, 2010, 02:36:10 am
What have I caused.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Snowcat on June 30, 2010, 04:44:00 am
......Come on guys, lets chill out....

I am quite excited about Sonic 4, its looks pretty cool.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 02:46:37 pm
I am not allowed to dislike changes that I feel are stupid and pointless? I was not even really complaining, just pointing out something I feel is retarded. I like how pretty much everyone decided to be a dick and point out their thoughts, so I think I should be fair with this too.

If I were really to complain I would say Sonic Team is the absolute worst fucking 'big' game developer in the world by a few lightyears. Sonic the Hedgehog 4, while far far far from one of their worst releases in the past 8 or so years is the biggest disgrace SEGA has ever given us, making an extremely low budget buggy rehash sequel to their biggest game trilogy of all time WITH INNOVATIONS nearly everyone hates while they constantly ruin everything else they touch.

TL;DR Rage.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 30, 2010, 02:52:24 pm
(http://http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/2/2/8/3/8/3/a2958010-37-obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 30, 2010, 02:54:22 pm
B-but... Sonic 4 hasn't released yet and you haven't played it...

oh fuck, I'm staying out of this one...

LE;DR (long enough; did read) Feeling fine.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 03:08:24 pm
Hell is probably pretty awesome if you all were not SO NITPICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every time someone tries to pretend that somehow playing the game on it's release is a saving grace for a game that we can all clearly see has at best sub par art, level, music, enemy, physics and boss design along with all of the clearly buggy gameplay and all of the negative press we have seen after E3 is completely out of their mind.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 30, 2010, 03:18:52 pm
From what I've read and heard, Sonic 4 has had very positive press post-E3:

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/e3-2010 ... -2061.html (http://www.gamingunion.net/news/e3-2010-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-hands-on-preview--2061.html)
http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... -sonic-4/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/06/e3-2010-a-return-to-form-in-sonic-4/1)
http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On- ... -w-Craig-1 (http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-Episode-1-w-Craig-1)
http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben (http://screwattack.com/videos/Hands-On-Sonic-4-w-Ben)
http://www.justpushstart.com/2010/06/18 ... mpression/ (http://www.justpushstart.com/2010/06/18/e3-2010-sonic-4-episode-1-hands-on-impression/)
http://thexboxdomain.com/blog/2010/06/1 ... -hands-on/ (http://thexboxdomain.com/blog/2010/06/16/e3-2010-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-hands-on/)
http://gamerlimit.com/2010/06/e310-soni ... ts-got-it/ (http://gamerlimit.com/2010/06/e310-sonic-4-hands-on-impressions-sonic-1-gameplay-its-got-it/)
http://www.wiinintendo.net/2010/06/21/e ... pressions/ (http://www.wiinintendo.net/2010/06/21/e3-2010-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-hands-on-first-impressions/)
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-20 ... ack/700394 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-screwattack/700394)

Of course, one can totally have a valid opinion on the art, music, enemy design and boss design pre-release as Sonic 4 has given us a very good look at all of those (thanks to leaks and official releases). I have to disagree, however, that level design and physics can be properly assessed until one actually plays the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 03:33:39 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
From what I've read, Sonic 4 has had very positive press post-E3.

Of course, one can totally have a valid opinion on the art, music, enemy design and boss design pre-release as Sonic 4 has given us a very good look at all of those (thanks to leaks and official releases). I have to disagree, however, that level design and physics can be properly assessed until one actually plays the game.

(http://http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif) (http://http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/03/sonic-4.gif)

[Really appreciated this post, I love wasting my own time having to clean up your rage dumps. Chill out and quit making garbage posts like this. One can make a point with a well thought out sentence rather than a load of shoddy gifs from old leaks. -Barry]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 30, 2010, 03:44:03 pm
I can see you don't want to have an actual discussion, and you're raging quite bad, so we'll talk about this when you chill out.

Also, I'll be removing some of those images as it really spams the thread up. For those who missed it, he has the same two gifs posted 28 times. What fun reading that makes...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 04:02:32 pm
My point is that you will always defend this stuff no matter what, so it does not matter. I do not see why you would have to play a game if you already have a general idea of the physics and can see full maps of the levels online now. Do you have to play every single Sonic fangame to figure out over 90% of them are some of the worst shit in the world?

And the loop glitch was from E3, sorry.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 30, 2010, 04:45:39 pm
I wouldn't worry so much Sega Uranus, I'm positive Sonic 4 will be a blast. =)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 30, 2010, 04:47:49 pm
Sanus, chill out seriously big time.

The E3 feedback was overall pretty positive and many individual people said it was really fun. The only bad feedback was from those Nintendo fanboys, so it doesn't count.

I think you're just freaking out with the thought of a Sonic game possibly being good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on June 30, 2010, 04:56:22 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
One can make a point with a well thought out sentence rather than a load of shoddy gifs from old leaks. -Barry

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif)

This one is from E3 as far as I know.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 05:14:31 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sanus, chill out seriously big time.

The E3 feedback was overall pretty positive and many individual people said it was really fun. The only bad feedback was from those Nintendo fanboys, so it doesn't count.

I think you're just freaking out with the thought of a Sonic game possibly being good.

Most of the positive feedback I have seen has been from people who never grew up with Sonic games and think the whole series had Little Big Planet-like physics.

I also think Sonic Unleashed was good. I consider it one of the ten best Sonic games of all time even, but this comes after some Game Gear titles still.

I dunno, stop being a mindless fanboy I guess? Even I liked Sonic 06 at first, you will learn.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 30, 2010, 05:20:26 pm
Quote
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/874/loopdumb.gif)

This one is from E3 as far as I know.

Old or not, he was being a spammy little pecker and I told him to stop.

Quote
My point is that you will always defend this stuff no matter what, so it does not matter. I do not see why you would have to play a game if you already have a general idea of the physics and can see full maps of the levels online now. Do you have to play every single Sonic fangame to figure out over 90% of them are some of the worst shit in the world?

And the loop glitch was from E3, sorry.

Sorry, posting 28 gifs did not make that point to me. It made you come off as a spaz. The above quoted post, however, is a coherent comment. Well done. Too bad you are assuming that I defend glitches. I'm all about glitches being found and fixed, so why would I defend them? Difference between us is how we go about it. I'll say "I don't like seeing the occasional glitch and I hope that SEGA's additional dev time will fix this", meanwhile you'll post rage filled junk comments and try to pick a fight with everybody here.

Quote
Most of the positive feedback I have seen has been from people who never grew up with Sonic games and think the whole series had Little Big Planet-like physics.

Did you click the links I provided? Nearly every writer talks about playing the original Genesis games when growing up.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on June 30, 2010, 05:39:01 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Sorry, posting 28 gifs did not make that point to me. It made you come off as a spaz. The above quoted post, however, is a coherent comment. Well done. Too bad you are assuming that I defend glitches. I'm all about glitches being found and fixed, so why would I defend them? Difference between us is how we go about it. I'll say "I don't like seeing the occasional glitch and I hope that SEGA's additional dev time will fix this", meanwhile you'll post rage filled junk comments and try to pick a fight with everybody here.

My overall point was that it is a complete injustice in design to SEGA's biggest trilogy of their most loved franchise. It is similar to if Star Wars episode 1, 2, and 3 were all done cheaply and rushed out the door. Sure, the real products are pretty mixed and a lot of the fans swear by them being shit, but you can see they really did put a lot of work and effort into them, I would have at least appreciated something of this attitude. Even more, if this was just called "Sonic the Hedgehog: Subtitle here" I would not care at all, the problem is that it IS Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and that they are putting way more effort into Sonic Colors on the DS that upsets me to great levels is what my issue is.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Did you click the links I provided? Nearly every writer talks about playing the original Genesis games when growing up.

'When growing up' is different than 'I know what I am talking about'. I played all of the Star Fox games growing up, but I know next to nothing about the franchise.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on June 30, 2010, 06:52:06 pm
There's still some time since E3 so I'm sure that Sonic Team is trying to fine tune things for the game's release. The loop glitch you posted Sega Uranus may very well be fixed in final product. Don't worry, it's going to be fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on June 30, 2010, 07:34:09 pm
Sanus is right. The fact that this is Sonic 4 is somewhat of a disgrace. The whole thing seems to be just slapped together. Only 4 zones? And Ken mentioned they would be charging up to $25 for this!

The physics are still a major problem. You can't really use those positive E3 previews as an argument because they weren't analyzing the game when they played it. They just saw Sonic running on a 2D plane and immediately declared it great. GoNintnedo's preview made more sense. Physics are extremely important for a game like Sonic.

That, and it seems to be a step down from Sonic 3 & Knuckles. (No mini-boss, no elemental shields, no Act transitions, etc.) Also, what's with the reused bosses and level art???

It's a shame, because I like just about everything else. I like the graphics, I love how the music is using those Sonic 1/2 drum samples, and I think the level design is really good. I don't even have a problem with the homing attack!

But those wonky physics drag it all down.

I really really REALLY hope they can get the physics right before release. Hell, JUST USE THE SONIC ADVANCE PHYSICS ENGINE! It's right there under their noses, and damn near close to the Genesis games. I don't understand why they wont use it....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on June 30, 2010, 07:54:39 pm
Sonic Advance feels nothing like the MegaDrive Sonic to me :/
It's as great or better, but not even similar. This is just my opinion though.. I wouldn't mind they used either of those engines. But this one can be good as well.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 30, 2010, 09:06:22 pm
I have to agree that I think Sonic 4 is extremely dissapointing overall. This is my opinion, but when you compare Sonic 4 to other games like 'Splosion Man' well...

Sonic 4:
* Huge franchise
* Massive Publisher
* Direct Sequel to highly loved games
* 4 Zones (12-16 levels total)
* 800 Points (At LEAST)
* No Multiplayer.

Splosion Man:
* Debut of IP
* Small Publisher/Developer
* 100 Levels (50 single player, 50 Multiplayer)
* 800 Points.

I mean... this is really just not good enough in my eyes. Sonic 4 just looks like they've taken every shortcut they could and slapped Sonic 4 on it so it would sell (And it will. By the bucket.).

The gameplay might be okay, but I just get the feeling that the homin attack alone is a big sign not to get my hopes up.

I can understand people getting excited about the game, but I just don't see it that way unfortunately.

Also sanus, please try to be more civil. Warnings will be given out if not, I'm kinda surprised Barry didn't give you one already.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Pao on June 30, 2010, 09:24:06 pm
I also join the negative camp.
Normally, people will expect Sonic 4 to be better or at least as good as the original 2D games, Mario and Rockman returned this generation with games that are arguably better or on par with the best games in the series (Rockman 9-10 and NSMBWii)

But from what I've seen in Sonic 4 from now, it doesn't even look like a great 2D game to begin with... Yes I haven't played it, but there are elements that you can tell just by looking.

I'll reserve my final judgement till the game releases though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 01, 2010, 02:14:57 am
Put me in the I haven't played it and its not finished yet camp.

I'm pretty sure in at least one interview the rep said that theres still a lot more fan feedback to put into the game and the E3 build is not finished...

Call me crazy but I don't think critics playing a Sonic game of all games would say anything remotely good about it if it wasn't enjoyable and was full bugs. People now saying things like 'but the critics don't know how to judge a sonic game.' is just the kind of crap I've come to expect... What is this Neogaf?

We sent Nuckles87... I'm pretty damn sure he's a big enough Sonic nerd to be able to be a Sonic critic... bigger then most of us here and he came back saying it was really fun.

Wait wait... let me guess... Nuckles is the WRONG kind of fanboy and can't possibly trusted? Hes too jewish right?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: nuckles87 on July 01, 2010, 02:31:37 am
I really don't see how any Sonic fan could HATE Sonic 4. Or hell, platformer fans in general. From what I got to play at E3 it's some of the best 2D Sonic gaming I can remember outside of the classics. Certainly better then the Rush series (which I did enjoy), and the Advanced series. I did a preview for Sonic Stadium. I played through the game several times with analysis of the physics, and effects of the homing attack in mind.

http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/e3 ... nd-opinion (http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/e3-2010-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-second-opinion)

My assistant Shigs also did a preview, but he had to rewrite it after further play throughs.

http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/ev ... mpressions (http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/events/sonic-4-360-and-wii-impressions)

Being completely honest...it's a pretty fun platformer.

Also, the tweaks we saw at E3 where minor physics tweaks, their apparently doing a lot more with the game
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on July 01, 2010, 02:54:47 am
I think part of the problem is that it comes after Sonic and Knuckles. Had this been a sequel between Sonics 2 and 3, it would fit in better cuz it does have a classic Sonic 1 & 2 feel. But 3 and Knuckles changed a lot of things. It was slightly slower and more platform oriented and climbing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 01, 2010, 02:59:24 am
^ But Sonic 2 is better then Sonic and Knuckles.
(In my opinion)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 01, 2010, 05:16:03 am
And Sonic CD is better than Sonic 2 and nobody gives a shit. (Thinking about it, Sonic 4 is actually the 6th lol)
I hate seeing people overreacting over these stupid things.
S&K wasn't all that great, there's not all that much to live up to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 01, 2010, 07:14:14 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
And Sonic CD is better than Sonic 2 and nobody gives a shit.
Hey you left yourself open by not saying 'in my opinion'.

The hell it was... Sonic CD is the most overrated crap of all the classics. Level designs are cluttered and fugly. Who thought it was a good idea  to make it so momentum is interrupted by shitty loading screens every time I dare to go fast enough for the game to be enjoyable.

Game sucks dick... Only reason it got its cult status was because it was on the Sega CD and nobody bothered to get one.

Urm… In my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on July 01, 2010, 07:56:00 am
I liked Sonic CD, but the faulty SEGA CD hardware causes the game to crash on me 25% of the time. :-/

...in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 01, 2010, 08:17:34 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
And Sonic CD is better than Sonic 2 and nobody gives a shit.
Hey you left yourself open by not saying 'in my opinion'.
Fuck! You're right!

In my defense, I played it on emulator. There were no loadings and crashes.

I think it's the best, but I have to be on the mood to play it.
It has hugely improved graphics over Sonic 1, while maintaining the great art direction. It's like Sonic 1 on steroids.
It has Sonic 2 like gameplay with spindash and all, so it's the best of both worlds to me.

I thought the level design was complicated but not obtrusive. That is good. Everytime I play it I go through different paths, even if inadvertently (for some this may be a nuisance, but I like it).

I like the MegaDrive Sonics in this order: SCD>S2>S1>S3>S&K

to me Sonic 4 looks capable of being better than 3. That's good.

EDIT:
humm.. in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on July 01, 2010, 09:09:31 am
What I liked about Sonic CD was that it felt like it came from a bizarro world in which it was the alternate universe release of Sonic 2. Sort of a "what if" in terms of another direction the games could have gone post Sonic 1. I also really liked the design of Metal Sonic.

Not my opinion, FACT. Yes, I went there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on July 01, 2010, 12:21:54 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I liked Sonic CD, but the faulty SEGA CD hardware causes the game to crash on me 25% of the time. :-/

...in my opinion.

I like the PC version of Sonic CD better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 02, 2010, 12:26:32 pm
I think Sonic the Hedgehog 4 will be better than Sonic CD, and while I like that - I agree with Sharky that it is the most overrated of the original series and the only reason it is a cult classic is that people newer had the platform to be able to play it, so it was some kind of mythological quality, Knuckles Chaotix sometimes gets a similar reaction for the same reasons.

I think MadeMang put it best with 'Splosion Man. To add insult to injury, that game was specifically designed around the newer style Sonic games. =/

It really is just so upsetting to me that Sonic Pocket Adventure uses almost all of the same kinds of concepts as Sonic the Hedgehog 4 outside of the homing attack and just nails it all so much better in so many ways, as far as I can see it has way better replay value too... Ugggh, I just hate Sonic Team so much for always ruining everything, even small children who know nothing about the franchise can understand some of this stuff better than them now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on July 02, 2010, 12:35:48 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
And Sonic CD is better than Sonic 2 and nobody gives a shit.

The hell it was... Sonic CD is the most overrated crap of all the classics. Level designs are cluttered and fugly. Who thought it was a good idea  to make it so momentum is interrupted by shitty loading screens every time I dare to go fast enough for the game to be enjoyable.

Game sucks dick... Only reason it got its cult status was because it was on the Sega CD and nobody bothered to get one.

Urm… In my opinion.

I agree 100%. The levels are too huge for it's own sake. Trying to go into the past is a huge pain in the ass, while accidentally going into the future is too easy so you never get the good ending no matter how hard you try. Even if you do find your way into the past, finding the machine to destroy can be tough as well. Everything in the game can kill your momentum too easily. It's actually one of my LEAST favorite Sonic 2-D games. From what I played of Sonic 4, I enjoyed it more than CD.

^ Hey look!! Sharky and Seguranus agree on something!! :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: nuckles87 on July 03, 2010, 03:08:00 am
Sonic 4 is a lot tighter then Sonic CD, and heck, a bit slower too. I liked Sonic CD, but not as much as the main series games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 03, 2010, 12:18:28 pm
Rethinking myself, I would say I like SCD and S2 equally.. But I've played far more S2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on July 03, 2010, 10:57:49 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am not allowed to dislike changes that I feel are stupid and pointless? I was not even really complaining, just pointing out something I feel is retarded. I like how pretty much everyone decided to be a dick and point out their thoughts, so I think I should be fair with this too.

If I were really to complain I would say Sonic Team is the absolute worst fucking 'big' game developer in the world by a few lightyears. Sonic the Hedgehog 4, while far far far from one of their worst releases in the past 8 or so years is the biggest disgrace SEGA has ever given us, making an extremely low budget buggy rehash sequel to their biggest game trilogy of all time WITH INNOVATIONS nearly everyone hates while they constantly ruin everything else they touch.

TL;DR Rage.
I think that this post from uranus is spot on.

I agree and it's exactly how I think about the game. I don't know why but I have faith... faith that there "will" be lots of things fixed in the final release. It's crazy but this will be "it". If they fuck this up, i'll be done with sonic.

I'd even buy the game for the price of 20$ if they fix everything for the sake of gratefulness. I'd be ****ing grateful if the endproduct really fixes a lot of stuff, and if rubyeclipe's suggestion on fanfeedback implementation isn't just the things that "obviously" need fixes.

THE HOMING ATTACK MUST TO BE REMOVEDD!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 04, 2010, 05:39:45 am
I think people want far to much things to be fixed that arent actually broken... just not what they personally want from a Sonic game.

So if you are like Sega Uranus... or Crazy Tails you should probably just give up on the game right now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on July 04, 2010, 05:52:57 am
I think for the most part the people in this thread have valid concerns. I don't know if I can say it's 'broken' but I am concerned that things like the Homing Attack are just 'not Sonic'.

I'm willing to wait until the game comes out before making a concrete judgement, but things don't look very good to me so far. And again, as I pointed out with my comparison to games like Splosion Man, the value for money/polish of the game just seems lacking.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on July 04, 2010, 08:54:30 am
I think another issue is one problem that has slowly overtaken Sonic since Sonic Adventure. See originally Sonic was not fast enough which is why they added the speedbooster (Which would seem odd when you gave him the spindash for a reason, but as a stage gimmick, it worked) however as the series went on, more and more speedboosters were placed in the game, then you add grinding (And yes I know it's not in Sonic 4) and plus a few moments were Sonic bounces off of springs and it really does feel like the game is playing itself for you.

Taking away this level of freedom to enjoy the momentuam based gameplay I believe is an issue. In one instence in Sonic 4, in the first stage, Sonic ran along, hit a bunch of springs then went top, hit a speedbooster and then used a pulley to get across a gap.

Now I think this is fine, but he seems to do it a bit too much in the first level, though if I remember correctly, Mad Gears and Lost Labyrinth does not have this issue so that's fine in those issues.

But I do think this "auto-play" problem has distracted people from enjoying Sonic games as much as they could, homing attack is just another ploy on that and I can see how it could annoy people.

Also:

http://soniccenter.org/maps/s3z91.png (http://soniccenter.org/maps/s3z91.png)

You will be amazed, AMAZED
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Hanyou on July 04, 2010, 09:47:30 am
I don't have much of a problem with the homing attack, so long as it is not used as an excuse for lazy level design, whereby you zoom over miles of bottomless pits, jumping from enemy to enemy.  I think it can be implemented cleverly and can be a logical advancement from classic Sonic gameplay.

Also, I actually liked Sonic 1 and 2's aesthetic more than Sonic 3's...the original games just had a bit more style.  I would have liked to see a "combination" of sorts with classic pixel art, but I don't too much mind the style they've come up with.  The new Sonic is still a major problem for me, because I think the character design is godawful and not in the least bit fitting for what's supposed to be a classic Sonic title.  People always bring up how Mario's design has changed when talking about this, but really, Mario has changed with every iteration--from the NES to the SNES, and from the SNES to the N64.  Also, these changes were incremental enough, like color swaps, etc., that most people honestly didn't notice.  Sonic's new model looks radically different from his old one.

But it will all come down to the gameplay, and I am deeply concerned by some of what I've seen.  There are still levels that play themselves, as Aki mentioned, and classic Sonic level design has been replaced by Rush-inspired material.  Sega has delayed the game and claimed they listened to the complaints of fans, so this is actually encouraging.  But my expectations for Sonic 4 are high, and I feel I'm justified in that.  Sega must deliver or risk the death of their mascot.

And reviewers and gamers MUST remember that while speed has been Sonic's selling point, the best Sonic games were about good level design and platforming.  That's exactly why so many fans (myself included) believe Sonic 3 and Knuckles to be the best the series has to offer.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 04, 2010, 06:53:23 pm
The people who defend the game are usually doing so blindly I feel. Of course a lot of us want the game to actually be good, it is a sequel to something we all love and feel are some of the best games of all time. We are not going to accept just any kind of release, we want something around similar quality. I do not want perfection, but I want a great product. It cannot be that hard, SEGA has done it often with small time releases of Sonic games and random fans do it all of the time.

I think almost every little detail about this game is poorly planned, everything from the level design to the badniks to even the story all just scream it was all done without much care at all. I do not see how anyone can find this acceptable, especially when these are such easy concepts to do right. Not all of it is bad, but it just really upsets me that Sonic Team is just doing this with a smug attitude while not really caring much for the outcome.

The fact that less love and effort was put into this than Sonic 06 and was done much faster and is universally liked to a much higher standard should be proof enough to everyone that SEGA should not let Sonic Team have large amounts of money ever again.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on July 04, 2010, 11:43:32 pm
Haters gonna hate. These people seem hyped

[youtube:3ppq799q]A86KjhpN9zo[/youtube:3ppq799q]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on July 05, 2010, 01:25:33 am
You can't even see how many people were actually standing up and cheering in that video. It was nearly everyone who was there. Ruby was quite pleased as well.

(I, however, knew that the second mystery game was going to be Sonic 4 the moment that I saw Ruby on Saturday night. ^^)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 05, 2010, 08:55:48 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
The people who defend the game are usually doing so blindly I feel.

But people like Nuckles87 who are positive about the game have ACTUALLY PLAYED IT. While most of the people here complaining about it haven't.

Whats more blind then that?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 05, 2010, 01:46:46 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
The people who defend the game are usually doing so blindly I feel.

But people like Nuckles87 who are positive about the game have ACTUALLY PLAYED IT. While most of the people here complaining about it haven't.

Whats more blind then that?

Psycho Echidna said Beast Rider is amazing. You have to play every game to always know the complete and direct extent of its quality.

Also almost all of my complaints are not directed towards the actual gameplay. What is more blind than your responses?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 05, 2010, 03:40:37 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
The people who defend the game are usually doing so blindly I feel.

But people like Nuckles87 who are positive about the game have ACTUALLY PLAYED IT. While most of the people here complaining about it haven't.

Whats more blind then that?

Psycho Echidna said Beast Rider is amazing. You have to play every game to always know the complete and direct extent of its quality.

Also almost all of my complaints are not directed towards the actual gameplay. What is more blind than your responses?
Andrea Bocelli

Also, Beast Rider is fucking amazing. What's your point?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: nuckles87 on July 05, 2010, 06:42:21 pm
Did he just say it was amazing or did he go in depth about how it maintained many of the elements of the original game, while also talking about what effects the new elements had on the old formula? Did he play the original games on the plane ride over with the intent of analyzing the game to see how it measured up?

And did he have a harsher second opinion that more or less agreed with him?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 05, 2010, 09:46:19 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
The people who defend the game are usually doing so blindly I feel.

But people like Nuckles87 who are positive about the game have ACTUALLY PLAYED IT. While most of the people here complaining about it haven't.

Whats more blind then that?

Psycho Echidna said Beast Rider is amazing. You have to play every game to always know the complete and direct extent of its quality.

Also almost all of my complaints are not directed towards the actual gameplay. What is more blind than your responses?

I'm not sure how my response is 'blind' at all...
You suggested that anyone defending this game is doing so blindly.

I simply said that the most 'unblind' people are the ones that have actually had hands on time with the game and you are not one of them. Nuckles on the other hand who I believe to be a pretty reliable Sonic fan HAS had hands on time with it and he enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 06, 2010, 11:24:45 am
Is this new,
http://g4tv.com/videos/47024/E3-2010-So ... Interview/ (http://g4tv.com/videos/47024/E3-2010-Sonic-4-Episode-1-Interview/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on July 06, 2010, 02:02:32 pm
Nah. I've seen it before.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 06, 2010, 04:25:21 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I'm not sure how my response is 'blind' at all...
You suggested that anyone defending this game is doing so blindly.

No, I said usually, not everyone is. Some people just like the game without really putting much thought into it, or at least most 'normal' people are like this I think.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 06, 2010, 06:00:52 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
I'm not sure how my response is 'blind' at all...
You suggested that anyone defending this game is doing so blindly.

No, I said usually, not everyone is. Some people just like the game without really putting much thought into it, or at least most 'normal' people are like this I think.

There may well be people looking at this game and going 'this is awesome Sonic is in 2D' and not putting much thought into it but there is also people trying to find fault with every little thing... I've seen some really trivial crap too on various forums.

I think there are people at fault on both sides of the argument.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 06, 2010, 06:25:37 pm
Normal people is where the big bucks are. Just sayin'
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on July 07, 2010, 05:28:05 am
The big bucks would have been at retail if SEGA actually decided to sell Sonic the Hedgehog 4 there in full at £30 a pop on three different major platform.

Though no doubt they will do something similar once all the episodes are out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on July 07, 2010, 07:59:34 am
Don't know if this has been placed. A two part interview with Ken balough.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuwqtP1B ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuwqtP1B8CE&feature=related)
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4syaftl8 ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4syaftl89O0&feature=related)

I disagree with what he says about the homing attack but for the first time he comes of more honest and less like a PR tool.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 07, 2010, 08:22:25 am
He seems like a pretty down to earth and likeable fellow. I approve.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on July 07, 2010, 09:33:41 am
I'm still under the belief that had a £30 ($45) full retail release happened, we wouldn't see it until next year. I'd prefer three $15 episodic download releases (still totaling $45) releasing from this fall through next Summer/Fall rather than waiting. Also, I think that had SEGA gone with a retail release, we probably would have had the old physics engine (as there would be no leaks to criticize). SEGA is smart to do episodic and then maybe a full retail release. That way, superfans would be spending twice as much. Devious? Yes. But smart (in a devious sort of way). I would gladly buy a disc version after the DL version if it had cool cover art and exclusive content, maybe an art book or cool tin box or something.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 07, 2010, 09:38:15 am
I don't fancy paying £15 per episode... 10 is resonable.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on July 07, 2010, 10:11:25 am
I'm talking $15, which is the equivalent of £10. So we're on the same page. I do agree that £15 would be too much ($22).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 07, 2010, 11:44:54 am
im pretty positive each episode won't cost 15 bucks. Cmon, that's waaay overboard.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on July 07, 2010, 11:57:44 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
im pretty positive each episode won't cost 15 bucks. Cmon, that's waaay overboard.

Yeah, Outrun, Rez and After Burner all being $10 leads me to think $10 as well. However, Virtual On being $15 makes me question if SEGA would go $15 for Sonic 4... meditate on this, I must.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on July 07, 2010, 12:53:27 pm
You can meditate all you want, but you'll still be making completely blind guesses.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 07, 2010, 01:18:40 pm
I'm betting on 800MSP.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on July 07, 2010, 01:42:42 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Is this new,
http://g4tv.com/videos/47024/E3-2010-So ... Interview/ (http://g4tv.com/videos/47024/E3-2010-Sonic-4-Episode-1-Interview/)

To me it is. If what he says about the homing attack really is true, just let me turn off the damn reticule.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 10, 2010, 09:30:46 pm
Sonic 4 wins Best Downloadable Game @E3 (http://http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/special-achievement/index.html?page=1)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 11, 2010, 10:15:45 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 4 wins Best Downloadable Game @E3 (http://http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/special-achievement/index.html?page=1)

Well,yes and no... The editors of the site went with Limbo but Sonic 4 got voted by the readers best downloadable game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on July 11, 2010, 10:45:56 am
Look at their SEGA E3 booth tour. Says it all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 11, 2010, 12:08:05 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 4 wins Best Downloadable Game @E3 (http://http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/special-achievement/index.html?page=1)

Well,yes and no... The editors of the site went with Limbo but Sonic 4 got voted by the readers best downloadable game.
>implying 5 or 6 people's opinion is as relevant as the opinion of 2706 gamers.

People are actually excited for this game. I hadn't seen this since 2001.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 11, 2010, 12:13:36 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 4 wins Best Downloadable Game @E3 (http://http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/special-achievement/index.html?page=1)

Well,yes and no... The editors of the site went with Limbo but Sonic 4 got voted by the readers best downloadable game.
>implying 5 or 6 people's opinion is as relevant as the opinion of 2706 gamers.

People are actually excited for this game. I hadn't seen this since 2001.

I wasn't implying anything, I was fixing your misleading comment!

 :|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 11, 2010, 02:56:07 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 4 wins Best Downloadable Game @E3 (http://http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/special-achievement/index.html?page=1)

Well,yes and no... The editors of the site went with Limbo but Sonic 4 got voted by the readers best downloadable game.
>implying 5 or 6 people's opinion is as relevant as the opinion of 2706 gamers.

People are actually excited for this game. I hadn't seen this since 2001.

Where were you when every major Sonic games was announced or leaked? Everyone loves Sonic, they just see stupid Sonic Team shit that ruins everything and are reminded that they think they hate it all again.

Also, LOLOLOLIMBO
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on July 11, 2010, 04:18:45 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Sharky"

Well,yes and no... The editors of the site went with Limbo but Sonic 4 got voted by the readers best downloadable game.
>implying 5 or 6 people's opinion is as relevant as the opinion of 2706 gamers.

People are actually excited for this game. I hadn't seen this since 2001.

I wasn't implying anything, I was fixing your misleading comment!

 :|
Sorry.

(I actually wrote a quite big chunk of text also replying to Uranus but my browser went pussy and I'm lazy)

@Sanus
Yes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on July 12, 2010, 03:00:51 pm
So what do you guys think?

(http://http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/samuel_arlindo/2-6.jpg)

ps: not my work
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 12, 2010, 03:20:59 pm
I think the actual Sonic the Hedgehog 4 we have looks much better than that... That fanart is very realistic for the most part with a strange rock formation with strange kind of grass coming out of it, so everything clashes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on July 12, 2010, 03:36:20 pm
I understand what you mean. Though I actually like the picture, to me  It shows how the art direction couldve been much better if they didn't decide to use the easy way out with pre renders.

The classic model also looks nice.
Title: Picto-Analysis
Post by: KAZ on July 12, 2010, 04:44:32 pm
That picture has really vibrant colours which is something I like, but it doesn't come off as harmonized.

This isn't exactly "bad" because I think it's intentional but -- I can't stop noticing the fact that the entire background is a re-do of Emerald Hill copypasted several times to fit the entire width of the image. A 2010 game be it proper Sonic 4 or Sonic 2 HD shouldn't have such blatant tiling.
The horizon line is far too defined too, that white border is really striking. The transition from sea to sky should be smoother.

The foreground foliage has a very different hand-painted gradient look, reminds me of the first Rayman for the PS1. That kind of art clashes entirely with all other greenery in the picture - the grass Sonic is running along, the background, everything.
Take a sec to load up Green Hill or something and you'll notice palmtrees have geometrical, flat leaves. I don't think plants ever looked like plants in classic Sonic until S3's Angel Island Zone.

Not much to say on Sonic himself, never cared much for classic VS modern. As long as he's the right shade of blue he's fine.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on July 12, 2010, 05:58:30 pm
It's just an idea, the guy himself said
Quote
"I'm just an amateur photoshopist, not a drawner. I really would like to be one to do something really detailed. But the picture shows only a concept ^^ .


THough you get the idea
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on July 12, 2010, 06:40:33 pm
I think it looks on par with what we already have. No better but there are some things in it that don't look vert sonicy to me at all... Like those foreground leaves and such.

I'm going to go with what we have now from Sonic 4 is better... Although the mid level background of the first level of Sonic 4 could be better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on July 13, 2010, 12:24:41 pm
So apparently we have to wait a year or more between episodes.

Quote
After the first episode is released, what will the wait be for the next? "We don't want it to be the case where you're waiting two or three years for the next one," Balough told Ars.

More realistically, a year or a year and a half between each section. If you finish the first episode with all the chaos emeralds, you'll get a glimpse at the next section of the game. You'll get a high level of replayability for your initial investment of $10 or $15.

Gotta love this quote:

Quote
"We have every intention of releasing the complete story, but if it comes out and not a single soul buys it and it becomes a losing thing... well, if no one really wanted it I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't release the second. But as it stands, I don't see that as a risk," Balough explained to Ars.

Glad to hear them acknowledge the fact that Sonic will sell regardles of quality.

http://http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/playing-sonic-4-at-e3.ars
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 13, 2010, 12:48:57 pm
I was so certain we would have the full game out before Sonic's 20th... This does not seem right at all, especially with it being five episodes long. If he is right then potentially Sonic the Hedgehog 4 will take a longer time to complete than the original time frame of the original trilogy was to release!

This does not make any sense to me, it cannot take too long to use the same engine over again and again just to add new levels...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on July 13, 2010, 01:09:18 pm
The thing is that production on the second episode hasn't even started yet. They still have to make the zone art, make the layouts, compose the music, possibly model, rig, and animate new characters like Tails, etc. So I can definitely see them taking a year or more to complete.

And there are probably only like 20 people working on this game, so....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on July 13, 2010, 02:38:30 pm
It used to take less people less than that much time to make a full game from scratch. There is no good reason as to why Episode II should take over a year, especially when each episode will be practically half of any other basic 2D Sonic release with much cheaper and lower quality music to boot.

I think the models of Sonic and Robotnik are the Unleashed models anyways.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 03, 2010, 07:46:43 pm
Haha! Check out Sonic 2 Dimps Edition:

[youtube:2f33951x]d5t4Ny8oDWw[/youtube:2f33951x]

This hack is a parody of Sonic 4. Features include homing attack chains, pointless speed boosters, the clowny boss music, air dash, wrong spindash sound effect, wrong roll sound effect, and much more! :lol:

Download it here:

http://http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=21948
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 03, 2010, 09:21:22 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
So apparently we have to wait a year or more between episodes.
Would you rather they rushed it out before it was done? I know I wouldn't.


Quote
Glad to hear them acknowledge the fact that Sonic will sell regardles of quality.
They didn't mention anything about quality at all... I think they have known pretty damn well since Sonic 2 that the series is going to sell well 'regardless of quality' if you want to chuck that crap around.

All they are saying is something that is pretty much the case for every video game series in existance... If there is interest it will get sequals if there isnt it wont. I'm not sure how that has anything to do with quality.

It's fine by me if you want to hate this game but at least have good reasons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 03, 2010, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Would you rather they rushed it out before it was done? I know I wouldn't.
Huh? They were actually planning on releasing the crappy build last month. Taking their time isn't on their agenda.

What I'm saying is that it's stupid to buy a small piece of a game, then waiting over a year to get the next small piece. Then another year to get the next small piece. And so on. You can defend the game based on everything else, but you must admit there is a MAJOR lack of content to justify charging "up to $25" for this episode alone.

This episode is simply too small. Even for an episodic game. Features from previous games aren't even here. There's no multiplayer, no Bonus Stages, no alternate characters.

When you look at Rayman Origins, Ubisoft's way of going about it is totally different:

Quote
Well, to be honest, we would love to release a biiiiiig episode of Rayman Origins this year on HD consoles.
Quote
Oh yes, and there is a golden rule: the size of each episode and its replayability must be important enough to make the players feel … fulfilled.

This is the complete opposite of the Sonic 4 method. SEGA PR keep using terms like "bite-size digestible chunks" to describe the game. Why would you ever want to overpay for something "bite-size", when you can get one huge awesome game for a reasonable price?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 04, 2010, 12:39:31 am
Sharky, one game does not need five years to make a good product when similar people did so within under a year in the past on completely new hardware. They also did it from scratch and with no prior knowledge of just how this should all pan out.

Sonic Team now does not give a shit about how the old games were or how the new ones should be made. Just look at the latest set of interviews that have come our way, Iizuka (Whom you claim to be a misunderstood genius) has stated that all Sonic games are good and people who dislike the games are just fans of the other perspective. The proof is Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is *literally* the cheapest game within Sonic Team's list of upcoming releases, it is also the sequel to the company's biggest trilogy of all time. I can understand you love the game uncontrollably, but people who joke or say the game sucks should be allowed to do so. I think everyone has given good reasons for stating their anger.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 04, 2010, 03:55:29 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"

What I'm saying is that it's stupid to buy a small piece of a game, then waiting over a year to get the next small piece. Then another year to get the next small piece. And so on. You can defend the game based on everything else, but you must admit there is a MAJOR lack of content to justify charging "up to $25" for this episode alone.

This episode is simply too small. Even for an episodic game. Features from previous games aren't even here. There's no multiplayer, no Bonus Stages, no alternate characters.


Oh INDEED.

I've said this before, but I'm going to keep saying it because it's so true:

Look at something like Splosion Man in comparison to Sonic 4:
Sonic is one of the biggest names in gaming history, one of the biggest publishers in the world and it has about 16 levels (and that's probably being generous).

Splosion Man is brand new from an indie dev and it has ONE HUNDRED (100!) levels. No episodic bullshit, you buy the game for 800 points, you get One Hundred levels out of the box.

Not to mention I would bet good money that Splosion man is lot more fun to play...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 04, 2010, 04:31:37 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"

What I'm saying is that it's stupid to buy a small piece of a game, then waiting over a year to get the next small piece. Then another year to get the next small piece. And so on. You can defend the game based on everything else, but you must admit there is a MAJOR lack of content to justify charging "up to $25" for this episode alone.

This episode is simply too small. Even for an episodic game. Features from previous games aren't even here. There's no multiplayer, no Bonus Stages, no alternate characters.


Oh INDEED.

I've said this before, but I'm going to keep saying it because it's so true:

Look at something like Splosion Man in comparison to Sonic 4:
Sonic is one of the biggest names in gaming history, one of the biggest publishers in the world and it has about 16 levels (and that's probably being generous).

Splosion Man is brand new from an indie dev and it has ONE HUNDRED (100!) levels. No episodic bullshit, you buy the game for 800 points, you get One Hundred levels out of the box.

Not to mention I would bet good money that Splosion man is lot more fun to play...

LISTEN HERE m9ts, Sonic Team is a misunderstood set of sweatshop workers that are not actually the worst developer in existence. They understand that games need TIME to become good, not hard work, and they always listen to the fans, that is why the next game will be exactly like Sonic Rush (IGN said it is the best Sonic game ever, so it is and that is all anyone wants and likes) it also has Rogue in a bikini and a deep story involving giant monsters that overthrow Robotnik at the end of the game UNEXPECTEDLY.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 04, 2010, 08:48:21 am
Ah believe what you like! Don't buy it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 04, 2010, 02:48:45 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Ah believe what you like! Don't buy it.

I won't. But don't you at least think I have somewhat a valid point with my Splosion Man comparison?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 04, 2010, 03:12:21 pm
I think Splosion Man is a longer game, however I think Sonic 4 is a much more visually varied game.

Splosion Man is essentially the same environment with 3-4 different color variations and around 15 "acts" per color variation. Sonic 4 has 5-6 environments (first 4 zones plus final zone plus bonus stage) with 4 acts per zone for the first four, one act for the 5th one and 7 for the special stage. About 24 total.

So while on paper Splosion Man has more individual stages, Sonic 4 beats it visually by offering moe varied environments. Heck, even some individual acts within a zone are different from one another. I'm loving Splosion Man myself, but have found that the environments lose their appeal about halfway through. Same cross section mechanical labs with molten rock inbetween. Sonic, however short, gives a grab bag of worlds to run through.

Now Comic Jumper, that looks to beat both Splosion Man AND Sonic 4 in the varied environments department.

btw Sharky, I'd love to be on the inevitable SEGAbits podcast discussing Sonic 4 when it releases. You wouldn't want it to just be you alone getting beaten up by the haters, would you? (besides, its looking like we'll be the only members to actually buy it) :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 04, 2010, 03:48:35 pm
^I'll give you that Sonic beats Splosion man in terms of variety, but I still think the discrepency between content is enormous, especially when you take into account the fanbase, publisher size and value the name "Sonic" carries in the industry.

And yeah, Comic Jumper should be awesome!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 04, 2010, 04:56:24 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Sonic 4 has 5-6 environments (first 4 zones plus final zone plus bonus stage) with 4 acts per zone for the first four, one act for the 5th one and 7 for the special stage. About 24 total.
But the "4th act" is just a boss. You can't really count it. And even if you consider a boss a separate act, then you could say Sonic 1 has 32 "acts", Sonic 3 (alone) has 33 "acts", Sonic 2 has 37!! Which makes Sonic 4 a lot smaller in comparison.

Quote
So while on paper Splosion Man has more individual stages, Sonic 4 beats it visually by offering moe varied environments.

Yes, but Sonic 4 still has less varied environments AND less content than Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K. Which is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 04, 2010, 05:24:12 pm
You're treating Sonic 4 Episode 1 as though it's the entirety of Sonic 4, which is not the case. I'll admit, the delay has caused Sonic 4 to become bigger than what it was in fan's eyes, but you have to remember that in total, the game will be three times the size of the first episode (assuming the rumors of three episodes is true).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 04, 2010, 07:44:00 pm
I'm treating Episode 1 as the full game because they are probably going to be pricing it as a full downloadable game.

If they fix the physics, I would say $5-$7 is a reasonable price range. But even then, you'd still get an empty feeling after playing the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 04, 2010, 08:42:43 pm
Well, I guess it comes down to fans either accepting a $30-$45 total for the complete game (once all episodes are released) or rejecting the $10-$15 per episode prices based on the idea that the complete Sonic 4 should be a $15 budget title with each episode priced at $5 each.

I find XBLA titles like Hydro Thunder Hurricane and even Splosion Man to be a steal at $15, and would gladly pay $30 for titles like those. Heck, even some budget Dreamcast titles with lesser graphics and gameplay were priced at more than what current XBLA titles are. Without taking inflation into effect, Sonic 4 would be half the price of the original Sonic games at release. I personally think thats a totally reasonable price, but I can see how those accustomed to current pricing could see the $15 price tag as a rip-off. Hell, I'd gladly pay $35 for Sonic 4 compared to $49.95 for either Heroes or Shadow... or Sonic '06 for $59.95. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 04, 2010, 11:59:23 pm
Comparing the prices of the original trilogy when they were first released is kind of silly. 16 years have passed since the last one and many different things have changed when it comes to pricing and development of games.

I think the point is kind of going over your head if you are going to defend with price differences and having more varied art than a small studio's second game. I think basically everyone else here can agree that we just want better for the game and are not just mindlessly hating on it, and as far as most of us can see, this seems to be more of a "Good enough" release. I mean, how would you feel if there was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, while SEGA also released a Jet Set Radio 3 that is actually a remake of the Game Boy Advance game?

And 'Splosion Man launched at $10, not $15.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 05, 2010, 07:28:33 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I mean, how would you feel if there was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, while SEGA also released a Jet Set Radio 3 that is actually a remake of the Game Boy Advance game?

And 'Splosion Man launched at $10, not $15.

That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future. :P

Also, pointing out that $5 price mistake I made on Splosion Man has really put egg on my face. Consider me "schooled" good sir!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 05, 2010, 02:50:19 pm
Quote
There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future.

Hmm, I don't know if it was THAT different. It had a minor change in style I think, but aimed at a new group of people? I think the same people who loved the original would love Future, and those who didn't wouldn't have been won over. The gameplay was slightly different but it felt again more like tweaking the formula than a complete overhaul,
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 05, 2010, 02:58:34 pm
Yeah, it wasn't a night and day difference, but I remember there being quite a split among fans of the original game. I think it was the loss of the arcade feel (timer, a concrete points system that led to a rank) and the mid-mission boss battles that really turned off some classic JSR fans.

Remember that canned JSR Wii game? It probably would have been more of what Sanus was talking about. I expected it to be a all out motion control waggle fest with yet again retooled character designs. Definitly not a step up from JSRF in my opinion.

(http://http://reyyy.com/JGR/beat_final.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on August 05, 2010, 03:59:16 pm
That is a design that Kuja gave to SEGA to pitch for a new Jet Set Radio game, not what SEGA asked them to do. The game was never in production for it to get canned by them.

Although why Kuja wanted pitched an idea to SEGA I'll never know, but it's a good thing they did, or Overkill would never have happened.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 05, 2010, 10:59:41 pm
Samba De Amigo Wii was also pitched by GearBox, you know, back when people expected Wii to be a console for gamers. ...Kidding. [spoiler:3maf4xkk]But not really.[/spoiler:3maf4xkk]

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future. :P

If you are going to go by that logic, there has not been a major Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles.

I do not really think Jet Set Radio Future is a different style or aimed at a different audience. It has similar mechanics, the same kind of settings, art and stories. The point I was trying to get around is that most Sonic stuff is barely similar to what it was like in the 90s and that the Sonic Team now is purposely trying to NOT go back to how it was, even if they say they are trying hard.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 06, 2010, 08:00:43 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Samba De Amigo Wii was also pitched by GearBox, you know, back when people expected Wii to be a console for gamers. ...Kidding. [spoiler:ficrv8hj]But not really.[/spoiler:ficrv8hj]

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future. :P

If you are going to go by that logic, there has not been a major Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles.

Well, that's true. There hasn't been a major 2D Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles, so Sonic 4 would be the next major 2D release since then. Basically, there is 2D Sonic and there is 3D Sonic (obvious, but I typed that out anyway). I look at the 3D Sonic as an adaptation of the classics, but definitely not the next step in the 2D series. Aside from a continuing storyline and basic gameplay rules and elements, everything from Adventure through to Colors shouldn't share the same column as Sonic 1-3&K&CD plus all the spin-offs (Chaotix, Advance, Rush). My hope is that after the first episode, 4 ramps things up and brings in Tails and Knuckles plus the elemental shields and a true 2D Metal Sonic battle. Of course, only time will tell in regards to those, but I trust Sonic Team and Dimps (gasp!) to let Sonic 4 evolve.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 06, 2010, 08:29:21 am
They can't bring back elemental shields because they put in the homing attack. So there's no way to do the bubble bounce, or the lightning double jump.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 06, 2010, 09:14:27 am
Unless the elements override or alter the homing attack, or provide the non-attack perks (like resistance to certain enemies or the ability to draw rings to you).

Thats what I'm really hoping for in the next episode. An evolution of the shield system. Nothing to the extremes of what Colors is doing, but perhaps the homing attack would work differently based on the shield.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 06, 2010, 04:11:11 pm
Quote
Well, that's true. There hasn't been a major 2D Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles, so Sonic 4 would be the next major 2D release since then.

I would hardly call a cheap, episodic, download-only and oursourced game the next 'Major' Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 06, 2010, 05:33:28 pm
SEGA sure is calling it that. Also, outsourced is a rather bold claim. Bold I say! Bold!

edit: I returned and saw no reply, so i just want to say i was joking about the above. However, I'd prefer Dimps who have a proven 2D Sonic track record to the current Sonic Team. The 2.5D segments in Unleashed (Wii and HD) were fun, but not worthy of going on to create Sonic 4. At least Sonic Team is overseeing Sonic 4 and it looks to be that they have the Sonic Team art department working on the look.

I'm satisfied with the team they've put together.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on August 08, 2010, 06:29:05 pm
Sonic 2 Dimps Edition interview with Ben Kalough

[youtube:dfe521cx]dbqw0zTe7nw[/youtube:dfe521cx]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 10, 2010, 10:12:42 am
*sigh*....another stupid "hype" game:

Quote
Would you guys like to know only about the biggest updates to the final version of the game, or would you also like to know about the smaller ones? I ask because though not every update is massively game changing, there are some nice minor touches that I think some fans would appreciate. In any case, I'd like to know what you guys think, since you're all quite passionate and engaged. (You too, lurkers!)

Let us know which you'd prefer (only big changes, or all changes) in a post below. I'll be looking over the feedback for a couple days until the end of this Thursday. Thanks everyone!

http://http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=339097

Just give us the list of the changes already! WHY would they be using this as some sort of hype-building advertising campaign. It only brings more attention to the fact that the game was delayed because of NEGATIVE reception.

Just show us the new build as soon as possible so the old build can be forgotten! Jeez....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 10, 2010, 10:20:05 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
*sigh*....another stupid "hype" game:

Quote
Would you guys like to know only about the biggest updates to the final version of the game, or would you also like to know about the smaller ones? I ask because though not every update is massively game changing, there are some nice minor touches that I think some fans would appreciate. In any case, I'd like to know what you guys think, since you're all quite passionate and engaged. (You too, lurkers!)

Let us know which you'd prefer (only big changes, or all changes) in a post below. I'll be looking over the feedback for a couple days until the end of this Thursday. Thanks everyone!

http://http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=339097

Just give us the list of the changes already! WHY would they be using this as some sort of hype-building advertising campaign. It only brings more attention to the fact that the game was delayed because of NEGATIVE reception.

Just show us the new build as soon as possible so the old build can be forgotten! Jeez....

I don't see the hype game here...

I was talking to Aaron about this game yesterday and he is genuinely very excited about some of the small changes that have taken placed while he has been away.

He's posing a pretty reasonable question to the kind of shithead fanbase that will whine about everything... like green eyes and stupid fat character models... and hype games...

Quote
Just give us the list of the changes already! WHY would they be using this as some sort of hype-building advertising campaign.
Not all of the changes have taken place yet, not everything is set in stone so even if he wanted too they can't just tell you all of the possible changes.

Secondly... Why WOULDN'T they use this as a hype building method?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 10, 2010, 10:23:36 am
My guess is that they reveal either Lost Labyrinth or Casino Street and in turn show us that the Act 2 stages have been changed to full-on acts rather than gimmick mini-games.

I'd much prefer a stage that began with the mine cart, using controls similar to Sonic 3's snowboarding, and then after about 30 seconds the cart crashes and the stage begins.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 10, 2010, 12:02:32 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'd much prefer a stage that began with the mine cart, using controls similar to Sonic 3's snowboarding, and then after about 30 seconds the cart crashes and the stage begins.
Horrible memories of Sonic 2 on the Master System come to mind.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 11, 2010, 11:48:23 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
I don't see the hype game here...

I was talking to Aaron about this game yesterday and he is genuinely very excited about some of the small changes that have taken placed while he has been away.

He's posing a pretty reasonable question to the kind of shithead fanbase that will whine about everything... like green eyes and stupid fat character models... and hype games...

Instead of just telling us what has been changed in the game, they're asking us to "choose" which "improvements" we should learn about. This is not some sort of hype game? Just say ALL the changes so the game can be viewed much more favorably. What company would want to suppress positive reception? :|

They've been showing the SAME crappy E3 build for so long now. It's just making the game look worse and worse. Come on now....

And no....I have never complained about green eyes or any stupid minor stuff like that.

Quote
Secondly... Why WOULDN'T they use this as a hype building method?
Considering a lot of people have become disinterested with the game and are very disappointed with it, no hype building method will work at all. So they might as well just show the changes made as soon as possible, instead of bringing MORE attention to the fact that the game was delayed due to bad reception.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 11, 2010, 12:07:28 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Considering a lot of people have become disinterested with the game and are very disappointed with it, no hype building method will work at all.

Step outside of the SEGA fansite bubble and you'll find a huge number of folks who are positive about the game. I'm talking general gaming sites and even IRL conventions. I'd say the majority of disinterested people you're talking about are confined to this site and Retro. Sonic Stadium, I've found, is largely positive. TSSZ is still shit.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 11, 2010, 12:48:14 pm
There is still some negativity at Sonic Stadium too. And there's even a lot at the official SEGA forums. Yeah, there is positivity of course, but the fact that it's split down the middle is a bad situation itself. (Considering that the original trilogy is universally loved by these fans.)

The fact that Sonic Colors is getting A LOT more positive response from people really shows that Sonic 4 isn't succeeding in what it's supposed to do.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 11, 2010, 12:59:07 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Quote from: "Sharky"
I don't see the hype game here...

I was talking to Aaron about this game yesterday and he is genuinely very excited about some of the small changes that have taken placed while he has been away.

He's posing a pretty reasonable question to the kind of shithead fanbase that will whine about everything... like green eyes and stupid fat character models... and hype games...

Instead of just telling us what has been changed in the game, they're asking us to "choose" which "improvements" we should learn about. This is not some sort of hype game? Just say ALL the changes so the game can be viewed much more favorably. What company would want to suppress positive reception? :|

They've been showing the SAME crappy E3 build for so long now. It's just making the game look worse and worse. Come on now....

And no....I have never complained about green eyes or any stupid minor stuff like that.

Quote
Secondly... Why WOULDN'T they use this as a hype building method?
Considering a lot of people have become disinterested with the game and are very disappointed with it, no hype building method will work at all. So they might as well just show the changes made as soon as possible, instead of bringing MORE attention to the fact that the game was delayed due to bad reception.

Aaron is simply asking if they would like to hear every small detail about and update to the code or just the big changes. It has nothing to do with hype games, its a simple question posed on their forum to their forum members.

God I hate the Sonic fanbase.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 11, 2010, 01:03:07 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
There is still some negativity at Sonic Stadium too. And there's even a lot at the official SEGA forums. Yeah, there is positivity of course, but the fact that it's split down the middle is a bad situation itself. (Considering that the original trilogy is universally loved by these fans.)

The fact that Sonic Colors is getting A LOT more positive response from people really shows that Sonic 4 isn't succeeding in what it's supposed to do.

The fact that Sonic Colours is getting a more positive responce is 1 because it looks like a good game and 2 as much as THOSE Sonic fans wont admit it... Almost all of them got into the series though Sonic Adventure 2 on Gamecube.

Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

The REAL issues that actually matter like physics, jumping and level design is what the whole game was delayed for...

While the mine kart and pin ball levels have very likely been scrapped.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 11, 2010, 02:25:16 pm
I wouldn't say the fan reaction for Colors is a fair comparison with the fan reaction to Sonic 4. I detailed my thoughts on the 2D and 3D series elsewhere on the forums, but basically I see the original 2D series as an excellent platformer whereas the 3D series was an adaptation of the 2D series, with mixed results (I'd call Adventure 1&2 great, Unleashed day stages very good and the rest mediocre to horrible).

Really the 3D series has had so many problems and was at such a low point, that all Sonic Team had to do was to take what fans accepted as good and decent from the previous games, double it and release it as a brief but fun Wii title. Colors doesn't look to break new ground, but it does look like a fun game to complete over a weekend. It also helps that ST threw in a bit of fan service by way of badniks (hey, Sonic 4 does that too!) and Eggman gags.

While Sonic Colors had nowhere to go but up, Sonic 4 is coming off of some of the greatest games of the 16-bit days. I think it's rather silly to assume that 16 years later, SEGA would outdo the original trilogy in a world in which games have evolved well beyond 2D platforming. Really, Sonic 4 has nowhere to go but down, but that is in no way a bad thing. The best Sonic Team can do is bring us a game that is as fun as the old games, with a few new tricks, and a graphical upgrade. Some folks here have labeled that as a "good enough" mentality, but I'd like to inquire what would be more than that?

If you try to outdo the classics both in gameplay and graphics, you risk becoming what the 3D games became. If you match the classics, both in gameplay and graphics, you have something that resembles a good portion of the fan-made games out there (or Mega Man 9 & 10). What I see when I look at Sonic 4 is a good middle of the road solution: It looks like the classics with a touch of the modern in HD.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on August 11, 2010, 03:08:49 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

I find most people (at least on this website) have more problem with the homing attack, speed boosters, overall lazy look and feel of the game (which makes it look like horrendous value for money) and the just plain stupid ideas like the Mine-Cart stage.

Which are all valid complaints, by the way.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 11, 2010, 03:51:01 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

I find most people (at least on this website) have more problem with the homing attack, speed boosters, overall lazy look and feel of the game (which makes it look like horrendous value for money) and the just plain stupid ideas like the Mine-Cart stage.

Which are all valid complaints, by the way.
Sincerely, a complaint about Sonics eye color is more valuable than a homing attack complaint. You haven't tried the homing attack in this game, but you have full comprehension of the eye color.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 11, 2010, 04:52:02 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

I find most people (at least on this website) have more problem with the homing attack, speed boosters, overall lazy look and feel of the game (which makes it look like horrendous value for money) and the just plain stupid ideas like the Mine-Cart stage.

Which are all valid complaints, by the way.
Sincerely, a complaint about Sonics eye color is more valuable than a homing attack complaint. You haven't tried the homing attack in this game, but you have full comprehension of the eye color.

What are you talking about? I am entirely certain everyone on this forum has played at least ten Sonic games in their lifetime, so they should have general ideas how this all works. The main issues that come from the homing attack is that it literally removes difficulty, player creativity and just makes the game seem less of a sequel and more of an awkward transition like Sonic Heroes was.

In the Genesis games to get to higher hidden sections you would have to bounce off of the enemies and build momentum while aiming yourself over them, in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 you can just keep pressing jump if they are in front of you, you should be able to get to those higher platforms without thinking. Another issue is that taking them out also removes the elemental shields. You could argue that something like the flame burst thing would be fine, but as chaining enemies with the homing attacks in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a basic gameplay function you will potentially lose all of those extra points you could have gotten. Also, Sonic Team has always made sections when you use the homing attack over bottomless pits, and unless it was removed there were sections from the leaked videos that had these!

I even pointed out awhile ago that it would have been neat if you got the blue shield that you would obtain the homing attack until you got hit. With this, Iizuka and awkward fans would get their homing attack, but also smart people could enjoy it in that Sonic Team could design the levels in where you have to go backwards when you get the homing attack to go to different platforms you could not reach without it. Look how simple and obvious this could have made the game better. It is that easy. That is pathetic and sad.

I just do not understand why people will defend this game up and down with "WELL YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED IT" when almost every problem is completely obvious to anyone who knows what they are on about. If this was just a side game, fine whatever, but it is not. The fact of the matter is that this is literally Sonic Team's lowest budget upcoming game and it is a sequel to probably SEGA's most loved and bought set of games ever. To me, this is just proof enough that they do not care.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 11, 2010, 05:03:47 pm
(http://http://img.youtube.com/vi/YnhF1QAEZjU/0.jpg)

In all seriousness, I don't get what the big deal is. I imagine that back in 1992 if there was Internet it would be filled with angry Sonic fans ravaging about spindash, and look how standard that became.
It's a gameplay addition. We'll see how it works when it is out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 11, 2010, 05:11:54 pm
Spindash is optional in that the player could be completely unaware of it and have it not effect how you beat the bosses, levels or most of the puzzles (in this case, Sonic & Knuckles only has like one... I think, none of the others do). It does not impact the momentum of the game much as you have to completely stop before you can pull it off. Therefore you need to actually think.

It is an issue. Stop being weird about this please.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 11, 2010, 05:59:10 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

I don't know what forums you've been reading, but most of the negativity is based around the horrible physics. And to a slightly lesser extent, level design.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 11, 2010, 07:29:17 pm
I'm not commenting further on these subjects. I think it's pointless to complain without playing it, you guys are convinced it will be shit anyway.

It doesn't make a difference to me right now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 11, 2010, 10:13:57 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Most of the Sonic 4 negitivity is based around some of the most stupid shit like character models, eye colour, 'plastic looking grass.'

I find most people (at least on this website) have more problem with the homing attack, speed boosters, overall lazy look and feel of the game (which makes it look like horrendous value for money) and the just plain stupid ideas like the Mine-Cart stage.

Which are all valid complaints, by the way.

As far as I've seen on THIS site it seems pretty split...

The homing attack shouldnt be a problem for anyone that have any self control... sure at SOME points you might NEED to use it just like in Sonic 2 at some points you NEEDED to use spin dash... which wasn't in Sonic 1 but most of the time it's completely optional.

Speed boosts are something that are being worked on...

And I think 'lazyness' is completely debateable... I actually really like the design of all the other levels bar the green hill zone style zone... I like the music, I like that they have brought back Super Sonic in normal levels...

I think Sonic 4 could have been soo soo much worse then what we have right now and I think it has a good chance of coming togeather as a good game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 12, 2010, 09:20:36 am
http://spindash.de/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-4 ... izuka.html (http://spindash.de/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-4/Interview-mit-Takashi-Iizuka.html)

English translation of an interview from spindash.de:

Would you mind briefly introducing yourself to our readers?

My name is Takashi Iizuka and ongoing projects are “Sonic 4 Episode l” and “Sonic Colours” and I’m a producer. I was director for many of the Sonic titles including “Sonic Adventure” series.

How long has Sonic 4 been in production at this point?

It’s been a bit more than one and a half years since we created the project concept around January 2009. But it was 4 months later when we fully started this project.

Why was the game designed for download and not as a retail version?

As you know, Sega have announced “Sonic Colours” the newest packaged title for this year. Apart from those packaged titles that are only for console, we wanted to make a more accessible game, with a reasonable price for wide range of platforms. This project has also been encouraged by the fact classic “Sonic the Hedgehog” for XBLA, Wii Ware etc… is doing so well.

Can we expect a retail version of the game at some point in the future?

So far we are not planning that.  I would like this franchise to develop as downloadable exclusive titles.

Do you have a concrete concept of how much an episode is going to cost?

It’s still TBD. As mentioned earlier, we would like to have this series as reasonable as possible because we would like this to be pick up and play title with reasonable price.

Will there be downloadable content for purchase?

So far, this is not planned.

Will there be a difference in gameplay between the various console versions?

We have optimized the game for each console for example adjusting graphic resolutions and tilt controls etc… Although for the 3 console versions the contents themselves will be the same. On the other hand for iPhone version, 2 action stages are swapped from the ones for console versions given the fact this is handheld device with tilt control feature. So there will be 2 exclusive stages for both iPhone version and console versions.

Are future episodes going to feature an online multiplayer mode?

Unfortunately I cannot say anything yet.

Has the project been developed as a response to popular demand, or was it actually due to the well-known HD fan images that SEGA decided to produce this kind of game?

I know there’s been demand from fans for a new title for classic Sonic series.  I’ve been wanting to bring back classic series if there is suitable way to do it. But it’s been difficult for us to develop classic series for package title in the way we do for current 3D Sonic series. So I can say, thanks to current established downloadable game market we could finally start this project.

Will the game include voice recordings, and is Sonic going to make a sound of any kind?

Now having VO is normal for Sonic titles, but we chose not to have VO for this title. This is because we wanted to enhance a good part of classic series in the new title for classic series.

---------
bolded bit is me pointing out further evidence that the mine cart and pinball levels may have been scrapped in the console versions. Note he says "swapped" from the ones in the console versions, meaning the console versions may have two new acts to replace the original build that had the mine cart and pinball machine. I think "swap" is PR lingo to cover the fact that they should be saying "we've designed two new acts for the consoles to replace the much maligned and out of place mine cart and pinball stages seen in the leaks. As we are too pressed for time to alter the iPhone version, we're keeping those two acts and are advertising them as 'exclusive levels' rather than 'leftovers from a previous build'."

just my take on it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on August 12, 2010, 09:41:33 am
Hence the delay.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 12, 2010, 05:56:16 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Hence the delay.

Of course... but what is your point?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 12, 2010, 06:33:42 pm
I'm forgetting who is on what side :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 12, 2010, 08:31:11 pm
And the color girls go toot too toot toot too to toot too to toot toot to too tooot
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on August 13, 2010, 05:59:19 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Hence the delay.

Of course... but what is your point?

It's obvious. They could try fixing everything that's wrong with the game, from changing the horrendous music to making proper physics. It can't be helped.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 13, 2010, 08:14:30 am
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Hence the delay.

Of course... but what is your point?

It's obvious. They could try fixing everything that's wrong with the game, from changing the horrendous music to making proper physics. It can't be helped.

But they are improving the physics... level flow amonge other things. I was talking to aaron just a couple of days ago and he told me at least one thing thats been improved and while I can't say what it is it's something small but important and its one thing among many.

As for the Music I actually really like some of it... And others I'm not too fussed. The underwater level has some pretty good tunes and so does the one with gears and bolts and such.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 13, 2010, 10:22:51 am
Lost Labyrinth has the best tunes, followed by Mad Gear. I'm really hoping that LL Act 2 is being redesigned to be a standared level, as I really liked the tune composed for that act.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 13, 2010, 10:40:48 am
If we're gonna talk about what improvements we want, I want to see a mode where you can play all the Zones and Acts in order WITHOUT being dumped back at the stage select screen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 13, 2010, 12:49:08 pm
Agreed, I'm hoping that's a demo thing. I get that they want all stages playable at the get-go, but I hope that when I start Splash Hill act 1 that I'll continue to play through to the end of the episode.

Sorta like Space Invaders Infinity Gene, there is a level select map, and anywhere you select continues you on to the next stage until you die or exit to the main menu.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 13, 2010, 02:25:31 pm
Something challenging would be if you choose to start at a later level you only get one life.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 05:53:29 am
http://www.sonicstadium.org/blog/2010/0 ... -revealed/ (http://www.sonicstadium.org/blog/2010/08/18/sonic-4s-lost-labyrinth-zone-officially-revealed/)

SEGA have today officially revealed the Lost Labyrinth Zone in Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, the update arrived on their official Japanese Sonic 4 website with eight new screenshots. The screenshots show there has been a major overhaul of the stage, including new elements such as dark areas in which Sonic will need to carry a torch to light up his surroundings. Sonic will also require the torch to light dynamite packs in certain areas to advance. The mine cart seen in the leaked footage of this level is still present, but it looks like it will only be used for a short period of time rather than take up a whole act. Judging by the screenshot, the mine cart moves forward without the need for tilting the screen.

We’ll keep an eye open for a U.S. and European update and let you know of any new info/media that may get released. Meanwhile, you can check out the screenshots below. If you saw the leaks, are you happy with the changes? If you didn’t, do you like your first glimpse? Let us know in the comments!

----------

The update sounds awesome! Mine cart looks to be like the snowboard in the third game, and the torch and dynamite looks like a very cool element. :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 06:11:18 am
The torch has never been in older games! It totally changes the gameplay! We all know how torches suck in videogames! The game now sucks and I'll only buy if it is 99MSP. I know because I've already played the full commercial version and know all of the intricacies of the torch gameplay element.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on August 18, 2010, 06:37:39 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
The torch has never been in older games! It totally changes the gameplay! We all know how torches suck in videogames! The game now sucks and I'll only buy if it is 99MSP. I know because I've already played the full commercial version and know all of the intricacies of the torch gameplay element.

 WTF!?!? LOL!!!  Of course the torch was not on previous games; Sonic 4 is a NEW game.


T+
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 07:48:37 am
I think crackdude was doing an impression of a h8ter boi.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 09:10:24 am
Torch act looks good. But I wish they would show some physics improvements.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on August 18, 2010, 09:19:10 am
Interesting design choice from Sega, they wouldn't want their fanbase to get overly upset over that little contraption.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 09:21:38 am
Also, it's funny that the worst Act in the whole game changed to become the most interesting (to me).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on August 18, 2010, 10:20:56 am
 And finally something completely new and unique on this sh...oops!, game(the torch)!

 Also, I still not understanding the loooong delay. Are they really working on it? Making things looking better? I'm not confindent... especially about the musics!(yes! I will hit it everytime I had a chance! I hate the musics!;P)


T+
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 10:30:31 am
The Sonic 1/2 drums are amazing. Shush you!

I wish some people at Sonic Retro would stop bitching about the drums and the music and the classic sound effects. It could send SEGA the wrong idea.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 11:05:06 am
So far I like most of other music I've heard and the ones I didn’t like at the start I've grown used too...

Even that clowny style Boss music isn't so bad anymore and in context is pretty menacing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 11:07:05 am
The music is pretty good now actually.. Maybe if people bitch a lot they'll bring back Crush 40. I would kill to hear ROLLING STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART at the beginning of every level.

Also, the torch level looks very fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 12:05:30 pm
And now for something totally creepy and weird.

http://www.spaxgametoonzone.com/E3_2010_3.html (http://www.spaxgametoonzone.com/E3_2010_3.html)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 12:11:52 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
And now for something totally creepy and weird.

http://www.spaxgametoonzone.com/E3_2010_3.html (http://www.spaxgametoonzone.com/E3_2010_3.html)

Oh god, I saw this over at Sonic Stadium. It's impossible for me to watch all the way through, so cringe-worthy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 12:25:21 pm
That Ken guy is a pro though... I could tell he was getting ichy and irritated like when your trying to plug something into the back of your PC with out looking and oyu keep missing the socket... Ya know?

But he kept his cool... I'd have had a melt down by 4 minuites in.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 12:27:45 pm
Whats wrong what the interview?
The guy is a bit crazy, but he is what I imagine most Sonic fans look like.. I'm @ 4 minutes...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 12:32:33 pm
It goes on 8 minutes too long, spax looks like a guy from "To Catch a Predator", he cuts Ken off numerous times, is disorganized, has a tinge of anger in his questions and looks to be a douche. That's what made the interview terrible for me.

Also, a good interviewer should be friendly. You can still ask the tough questions without an attitude. This dude definitely won't get this opportunity with future Sonic games. He's probably on the SEGA shit list with TSSZ.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 12:33:22 pm
Look at his weird movements? listen to his weird passive agressive questioning? Watch how he shoves that mic right in that dudes face over and over again.

Hell listen to his voice, That is the exact voice of the whiney american nerd that you have to mute on Xbox Live Arcade because he's calling everyone 'faget' over and over again.

Edit: Jesus man look at the fucking hood!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 12:37:24 pm
Just finished it and I want to punch the guy in the face lol
Other than that, some questions were kinda interesting. I'm really exited the game will have an intro. It's a nice touch that most games these days lack.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 12:38:00 pm
Are you guys just now finding out about Spax? He has always been like this. Also try out the Sonic Colors interview he had... That was way more awkward, and it was with a woman who was scared to death and kept looking off screen at Ken.

Anyways, about the level. I think it looks like the best yet, the art is actually pretty good too. I am very impressed and surprised.

About the music... I dunno why people defend it. The reason people hate most of it is because it really does not mostly fit (sounds closer to something you would hear in Wonder Boy I think) and the sound quality is just so incredibly low that it is to the point it actually bugs my ears a bit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on August 18, 2010, 12:54:41 pm
It seems to me they spoiled the new act just to see how the internet reacts. Oh Sega :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 01:07:41 pm
I wish VE Animation Studio (now Marza Animation Planet, the folks behind Night of the Werehog) had made a little 30 second intro and minute long "good ending" outro for the game. I know they're trying to emulate the classics and not include cinematics, but something on the level of Sonic CD that is just eye candy with a small bit plot would be fun. Like the ending of Sonic 2 but in CG. That'd kick ass.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 01:16:02 pm
CG scenes would bump up the download sizes by a LOT. No thanks.

If Marza is going to do another Sonic thing, I just want a full length movie designed around stuff like running around the Land of Darkness in OVA and the intro of Sonic Unleashed, but without that Dark Gaia nonsense. Just make it so it is mostly just Sonic fighting Robotnik and have all have good art like the Genesis games and Sonic Adventure and I will be happy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 01:16:35 pm
The only problem with the Sonic 4 music is that a lot of it is missing the badass edge that a lot of classic Sonic music had. It's why the Mad Gear tracks are considered the best. Because those tracks actually have the Sonic quality to them.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 01:24:01 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
CG scenes would bump up the download sizes by a LOT. No thanks.

Not even 30 seconds? :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 03:22:01 pm
From ze blogs:

(http://http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4904863047_45f196b042.jpg)

Quote
Today’s new additions offer a brand new Lost Labyrinth zone theme, plus new downloadable music, new screenshots, and a first look at what the final version of the game is shaping up to be!

For many weeks now all of you on the forums and the blogs have been asking us to make good on our promise that we were extending the development of the game to make it even better. Today, those of you with a quick mind will begin to spot the fruits of that labor, which our teams have been hard at work at.

But the good news doesn’t end there. After a poll conducted on the Sonic 4 forums, we have decided to begin releasing additional information about the other changes we’re making to the game directly to everyone in the community, which will be posted exclusively here on the SEGA Blogs and the Sonic Blognik!


To further that excitement: the first blog listing some of these new changes will be arriving tomorrow. We’d like to think that this sound effect just started playing somewhere.

What’s next in the Sonic 4 pipeline? Beyond today’s screenshots and details of more changes, we also plan to show you what Lost Labyrinth looks like in action soon. We hope you guys are pleased with today’s update, and that you’ll join us for the rest of the run towards launch. There’s still much more to come on the Sonic 4 front!

What do you guys think of the update?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 04:09:04 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The only problem with the Sonic 4 music is that a lot of it is missing the badass edge that a lot of classic Sonic music had. It's why the Mad Gear tracks are considered the best. Because those tracks actually have the Sonic quality to them.
There's a nostalgia factor as well. Not ALL classic songs were good and memorable. Some were just passable.

Same thing here. Some are great, some are passable. But problem is that back then it was a all new sound level for gaming. It has been 16 years of similar music so it's not as fresh most of time.

My take on this. I still think the music is mostly fitting and decent.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 04:11:58 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The only problem with the Sonic 4 music is that a lot of it is missing the badass edge that a lot of classic Sonic music had. It's why the Mad Gear tracks are considered the best. Because those tracks actually have the Sonic quality to them.
But I like the Lost Labyrinth music the best... One of the acts has some of the most enjoyable Sonic music I've heard... Can't remember which one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 04:27:27 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The only problem with the Sonic 4 music is that a lot of it is missing the badass edge that a lot of classic Sonic music had. It's why the Mad Gear tracks are considered the best. Because those tracks actually have the Sonic quality to them.
There's a nostalgia factor as well. Not ALL classic songs were good and memorable. Some were just passable.

Name one.  8-)

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The only problem with the Sonic 4 music is that a lot of it is missing the badass edge that a lot of classic Sonic music had. It's why the Mad Gear tracks are considered the best. Because those tracks actually have the Sonic quality to them.
But I like the Lost Labyrinth music the best... One of the acts has some of the most enjoyable Sonic music I've heard... Can't remember which one.

If you cannot remember, then it must not have been that good to begin with!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 04:38:57 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
If you cannot remember, then it must not have been that good to begin with!

What does me not remembering which of the three acts it was set too have to do with how much I enjoyed the music... Nothing what so ever.

(http://http://i49.tinypic.com/mhfrz8.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 04:44:41 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
If you cannot remember, then it must not have been that good to begin with!

What does me not remembering which of the three acts it was set too have to do with how much I enjoyed the music... Nothing what so ever.

The fact that you just pointed out you remember which zone it was, but are too lazy to find which act of three it is pretty much proves my point that it must have not been as good as you claimed.

But that is a great image!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 04:48:16 pm
[youtube:1akl9e7a]Ih8c6I1zH7I[/youtube:1akl9e7a]
I'm not saying it's bad. It's just...normal.. lol The games have incredibly amazing songs, but not all of them are so good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 05:13:39 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

The fact that you just pointed out you remember which zone it was, but are too lazy to find which act of three it is pretty much proves my point that it must have not been as good as you claimed.

But that is a great image!

Well, to be fair, unless Ryan saved all the leaked music months ago and cataloged them correctly (I remember the files had funky titles) he has no way of listening to all three acts to compare, as only act 1 has been officially released and youtube files are quickly deleted.

I liked the act 2 music the most, which oddly enough is the Strange Mine Cart theme song.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 05:32:05 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
If you cannot remember, then it must not have been that good to begin with!

What does me not remembering which of the three acts it was set too have to do with how much I enjoyed the music... Nothing what so ever.

The fact that you just pointed out you remember which zone it was, but are too lazy to find which act of three it is pretty much proves my point that it must have not been as good as you claimed.

But that is a great image!
That proves nothing what so ever... you are talking out of your arse.
I don't have access to the leaks anyway, I saw them about a week ago but they are gone from youtube now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 05:39:09 pm
To be fair? What? Come on guys...

I assume if most people heard a song from a game franchise they liked a lot (in this case, talking about it daily) and better than almost anything in the entire series that they would remember if it was Act 1, 2 or 3. It is all constantly on YouTube every day too probably. If you are too lazy to even attempt to look it must not be that great.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 05:45:12 pm
Give the guy a break, the game isn't out and the leaked music is hardly a click away. You can't fault Ryan for not pausing mid-sentence to dig up a torrent file, download it and specify if he liked act 1, act 2 or act 3. It's just a silly thing to argue about.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 05:50:52 pm
Whatever, you guys are really hopeless with this stuff so I will not even argue about anything on this game anymore. It cannot be that hard to remember a number if it is one of your favorite things of one of the biggest game franchises of all time, can it?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on August 18, 2010, 05:58:04 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I'm not saying it's bad. It's just...normal.. lol The games have incredibly amazing songs, but not all of them are so good.

It's a hard theme to forget and pretty much synchs really well with the level. It's anything but normal, it stands out as a pretty different song amongst a lot of platformers out there.

As for Sonic the Hedgehog 4's music, I am not sure why they even bothered to make the songs that way, if they were going for classic Mega Drive sounding music, at least do it like Mega Drive music. Otherwise might as well update it like everything else (Something I would have prefered, as well as having proper 3D graphics)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 06:00:50 pm
To clarify what I said earlier....

I never said I hated the Sonic 4 soundtrack. I quite like it actually. But the only problem is that some of it does not sound like "Sonic music".

And yes, Lost Labyrinth Act 2 is my favorite Lost Labyrinth track, but only because you can actually hear the bass compared to every other song in the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 18, 2010, 06:10:01 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Whatever, you guys are really hopeless with this stuff so I will not even argue about anything on this game anymore. It cannot be that hard to remember a number if it is one of your favorite things of one of the biggest game franchises of all time, can it?

Uranus, buddy, chill. Look at what you two are arguing about.

I'm just saying that for all the arguments that go on around here, this one is extremely petty. It isn't even about the game itself, It's a non-argument: "Which act music did Sharky like and why didn't he bother to search for it to tell us the exact one". Does anybody care? Is that what constitutes argument material around here?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 18, 2010, 06:12:32 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "crackdude"
I'm not saying it's bad. It's just...normal.. lol The games have incredibly amazing songs, but not all of them are so good.

It's a hard theme to forget and pretty much synchs really well with the level. It's anything but normal, it stands out as a pretty different song amongst a lot of platformers out there.

As for Sonic the Hedgehog 4's music, I am not sure why they even bothered to make the songs that way, if they were going for classic Mega Drive sounding music, at least do it like Mega Drive music. Otherwise might as well update it like everything else (Something I would have prefered, as well as having proper 3D graphics)
I don't find it that amusing. It's not "pretty different" either, Super Mario World on the Gameboy had a very similar song years before.

Personally I'd like the music to be more like Sonic CD. Honestly I haven't given much attention to 4's music, it could be more enjoyable in my opinion, though I think it's fine. Updating it wouldn't be a bad idea either.
As for 3D graphics, I don't agree. 2D games should have 2D graphics. I like how it looks better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 06:14:42 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Whatever, you guys are really hopeless with this stuff so I will not even argue about anything on this game anymore. It cannot be that hard to remember a number if it is one of your favorite things of one of the biggest game franchises of all time, can it?

Uranus, buddy, chill. Look at what you two are arguing about.

I'm just saying that for all the arguments that go on around here, this one is extremely petty. It isn't even about the game itself, It's a non-argument: "Which act music did Sharky like and why didn't he bother to search for it to tell us the exact one". Does anybody care? Is that what constitutes argument material around here?

Yeah. Have you met me or Sharky before? We both always have to be right, it is why we have SEGA sites and are not actually off right now playing some games.

Quote
I don't find it that amusing. It's not "pretty different" either, Super Mario World on the Gameboy had a very similar song years before.

WTF?

...WTF?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 06:25:31 pm
We will be hearing about the new Sonic 4 improvements tomorrow:

Quote
But the good news doesn’t end there. After a poll conducted on the Sonic 4 forums, we have decided to begin releasing additional information about the other changes we’re making to the game directly to everyone in the community, which will be posted exclusively here on the SEGA Blogs and the Sonic Blognik!

To further that excitement:  the first blog listing some of these new changes will be arriving tomorrow.

http://http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/08/18/sonic-4-website-reveal-explore-the-new-lost-labryinth/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 06:37:53 pm
I think they will reveal a little one that nobody actually noticed was wrong... but when it was pointed out to me it was very good that they 'fixed' it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on August 18, 2010, 06:42:06 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I don't find it that amusing. It's not "pretty different" either, Super Mario World on the Gameboy had a very similar song years before.

The Temple song is a poor comparison since it's basically a generic Egyptian song, if I was going to talk about those types of songs, I would have brought Subterrania from Monster World IV as a similar sounding song or even the India song from Quackshot. They still sound nothing like Oil Ocean, especially considering the pitch and the sounds it starts off with are much more flat.

Quote from: "crackdude"
As for 3D graphics, I don't agree. 2D games should have 2D graphics. I like how it looks better.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 uses a CGI based sprite. This is not 2D, if they wanted to go with 2D then everything should be HD sprites but as it is, it is a massive let down, especially with the level of attention SNK are giving the new King of Fighters. Do the job either this way or that way, not a half job in between.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 06:46:30 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
To be fair? What? Come on guys...

I assume if most people heard a song from a game franchise they liked a lot (in this case, talking about it daily) and better than almost anything in the entire series that they would remember if it was Act 1, 2 or 3. It is all constantly on YouTube every day too probably. If you are too lazy to even attempt to look it must not be that great.

You are mental.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 07:14:46 pm
Quote
I think they will reveal a little one that nobody actually noticed was wrong... but when it was pointed out to me it was very good that they 'fixed' it.
I'm pretty sure the game was dissected enough that even the most minuscule of problems are known and bitched about. 8-)

Quote
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 uses a CGI based sprite. This is not 2D, if they wanted to go with 2D then everything should be HD sprites but as it is, it is a massive let down, especially with the level of attention SNK are giving the new King of Fighters. Do the job either this way or that way, not a half job in between.

Actually, I agree with what Ken Balough was saying about how Sonic games always tried to look 3D. Genesis Sonic games never went for the flat cartoon style like Mario did.

I used to want sprites for this game, but then I realized the fact that Sonic always tried to be 3D, so I became okay with using models. Plus, the cel-shaded models actually remind me of the old pre-rendered title screens with their limited color shades.

(http://http://www.mobianlegends.com/images/sonicandknuckles/sonic_and_knuckles_title.png)
(http://http://www.theghz.com/sonic/3d/3d_00.gif)

Anyways, in my eyes, the graphics for Sonic 4 are perfect.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on August 18, 2010, 07:30:17 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Actually, I agree with what Ken Balough was saying about how Sonic games always tried to look 3D. Genesis Sonic games never went for the flat cartoon style like Mario did.

I used to want sprites for this game, but then I realized the fact that Sonic always tried to be 3D, so I became okay with using models. Plus, the cel-shaded models actually remind me of the old pre-rendered title screens with their limited color shades.

That's not the point I made and re-read what I typed out. Before we even saw much of this game, I wanted 3D models.

But my point was, if Sonic was always meant to look 3D, why isn't this game, you know, 3D? Why is it 2D based sprites with CGI models plastered on? If you are going with sprites then cool, make proper HD sprites, but if you want to use models, then actually use models, it is not impossible to use them.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 07:33:50 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
To be fair? What? Come on guys...

I assume if most people heard a song from a game franchise they liked a lot (in this case, talking about it daily) and better than almost anything in the entire series that they would remember if it was Act 1, 2 or 3. It is all constantly on YouTube every day too probably. If you are too lazy to even attempt to look it must not be that great.

You are mental.

Still never found that song, eh?  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 18, 2010, 08:14:25 pm
Still not looking...  I suspect it'll come up eventually and then I'll point it out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 18, 2010, 09:31:03 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
But my point was, if Sonic was always meant to look 3D, why isn't this game, you know, 3D? Why is it 2D based sprites with CGI models plastered on? If you are going with sprites then cool, make proper HD sprites, but if you want to use models, then actually use models, it is not impossible to use them.
The models aren't pre-rendered. But the level art IS pre-rendered stuff. However, it's not like it's 2D hand drawn stuff, so it doesn't clash THAT much. If you are bothered by all the pre-rendered stuff, just pretend it's a Saturn game. That's probably the system Sonic 4 would've been on had they continued the series back then. :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on August 18, 2010, 10:04:01 pm
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The models aren't pre-rendered. But the level art IS pre-rendered stuff. However, it's not like it's 2D hand drawn stuff, so it doesn't clash THAT much. If you are bothered by all the pre-rendered stuff, just pretend it's a Saturn game. That's probably the system Sonic 4 would've been on had they continued the series back then. :afroman:

Iizuka said the models were pre-rendered.

And I can imagine it would be a SEGA Saturn game, but then I would expect the music to be of better quality and I would still expect the graphics to be 3D since SEGA would like to show the 3D ability of the SEGA Saturn! This ain't no Yoshi Story! :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 18, 2010, 10:50:13 pm
Yeah, if they made this game on the Saturn the music would be closer to the quality of this:

[youtube:3gsm9ouh]EW2eSXXEaFs[/youtube:3gsm9ouh]

Instead we get something closer to this:

[youtube:3gsm9ouh]LjMguKlazBg[/youtube:3gsm9ouh]

[spoiler:3gsm9ouh]Well, okay that was a joke, but I seriously wish they would upgrade the music to even basic CD quality stuff![/spoiler:3gsm9ouh]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 19, 2010, 05:18:21 pm
A good number of Sonic 4's problems have been fixed:

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/08/19/so ... og-part-i/ (http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/08/19/sonic-4-update-blog-part-i/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Deefy on August 19, 2010, 05:49:08 pm
Good news, the game looks more and more attractive 8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on August 21, 2010, 08:20:18 am
Just when you thought the physics in this game couldn't get any more wonky:

[youtube:2edfxyco]5dJYuSrfYYI[/youtube:2edfxyco]

I bring to you automated corkscrews!

Sonic spindashes into one at high speed, yet runs through it significantly slower. AND he comes out of ball form!

*barfs*
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 21, 2010, 08:40:26 am
Finding problems in a confirmed to be incomplete demo version of a game.

*barfs*

*vomits*

*feints*

*overreacts*
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on August 21, 2010, 09:08:05 am
At 0:18 I was like YEAH. At 0:43 I was like WTF. At 1:05 I was like HOMING ATTACK HIGHWAY COOL.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Deefy on August 21, 2010, 09:27:24 am
Oh my god!    I spoke too soon  :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on August 21, 2010, 10:25:20 am
But isnt this still the E3 demo where they stressed about a million times how the code was old and most of the improvments haven't been added?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on August 21, 2010, 11:09:10 am
Yeah, that was pretty strange. I do not know how they can miss something like that... Oh yeah, they forgot Sonic rolls! I heard somewhere that rolling actually slows you down too, like in Sonic Rush. Always more proof of retardation at Sonic Team...

Something that bugs me that I know they will not fix are the springs. First of all, touching them at all makes you use them (as opposed to just jumping onto it). Does not really seem like a problem, but it does not help when the springs always set you off onto the same path (pretend it is an invisible tube or something). If you press anything or move while they are bouncing you around Sonic will just fall down straight. Kind of embarrassing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on August 21, 2010, 12:30:04 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
But isnt this still the E3 demo where they stressed about a million times how the code was old and most of the improvments haven't been added?

Yup! this is the E3 demo. Until the final game releases, I'm not going to lose my shit whenever I see something like the video above. I agree that Sonic should not control that way on the corkscrews. But since SEGA themselves have stated that the physics and mechanics are WIP, I'll trust them on that until the final game releases.

However, were I to be playing this at a SEGA booth, I'd definitely point out something like that to the reps and I'd assume others have already mentioned it at E3 and other events.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on August 21, 2010, 12:48:01 pm
Stop being such drama queens.

[testing out posting from my phone]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on August 21, 2010, 02:24:34 pm
I hope they have changed the boss theme. It is so ridiculous...


 Next month I'm gonna play the Japanese version!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 02, 2010, 02:38:05 pm
New trailer, looks great.

http://www.segabits.com/?p=3757 (http://www.segabits.com/?p=3757)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 02, 2010, 03:25:22 pm
Yeah! Just watched it! Footage looks far far better than the leaks. Loving the JSRF-like motion blur and all the little gimmicks look very fun.

Here's hoping this is at PAX so we get some footage and impressions. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 02, 2010, 03:31:39 pm
His shoes are too red. Are you serious Sonic Team? You couldn't even get that right. Fuck's sake. Not to mention he runs too fast. Fuck this game.

Tee hee,

Seriously though, credit given where credits due, that actually looked really good!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on September 02, 2010, 04:01:01 pm
looks really good , i have nothing to complain about other than the shitty trailer and music
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on September 02, 2010, 06:44:37 pm
Ruby says the old E3 demo is going to be at PAX.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 02, 2010, 09:27:12 pm
Yeah, I do not know what point they are trying to get around with the music in this. Why is it all serious?

It is a good trailer otherwise I think, but I already pointed out that I think this looks to be the best level of the lot so far now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 02, 2010, 11:22:35 pm
You guys noticed the 10 minute time limit? Just like the old days...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 03, 2010, 06:46:18 am
I would be excited for this game over this trailer alone. Too bad I know the story. Pretty good though, I don't understand the music however.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 03, 2010, 07:21:53 am
I dont care about this game nomore
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 03, 2010, 10:30:25 am
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
I dont care about this game nomore
Because it looks so good...?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 03, 2010, 11:21:27 am
Quote from: "Orta"
I would be excited for this game over this trailer alone. Too bad I know the story. Pretty good though, I don't understand the music however.
The... story?

Heavens forbid knowing the story of a 2D Sonic game before you play it... RUINED!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 03, 2010, 11:33:56 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
I dont care about this game nomore
Because it looks so good...?
Meh, I don't like it, that's all.

This thread (http://http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=342931) kind of sums up my feelings. I kind of feel the same, you may not understand why I dislike it so much but than again it has been discussed countless of times.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 03, 2010, 11:53:23 am
That link didn't help much either. :-/ I think the problem is that you and the Sega forums poster didn't give any details. And the Sega forums poster specifically contradicts himself.

quoting from your link:
Quote
Castlevania rebirth
Contra rebirth
Gradius rebirth
Megaman 9 and 10
Rocket knight
Bionic commando

All decent to good games. True to the orginals and overall good games

I agree with him, they are all decent to good games. But then he goes on to say:

Quote
Sonic 4 however, wow. It's failing in every possible way. I have been a sonicfan ever since the beginning and I have forgiven the franchise too much. I don't know if sonicteam's goal was to please the oldschoolfans but to be honest this game is making me hate sonic period.

I don't understand how the previously mentioned games are successes in his eyes, yet Sonic 4 is a fail. Megaman 9&10, for example, are carbon copies of what sequels would look like. Clearly catering to old school fans. But then he also says that Bionic commando and Rocket Knight are good. Yet these games do a lot of things that Sonic 4 does. HD visuals, 3D models, tweaked gameplay, direct sequel (Rocket Knight is). Also, the dude is a douche for ending the post with

Quote
PS: Some of you need to get checked.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 03, 2010, 12:06:34 pm
I think you're being a bit over-pessimistic Tails.. Maybe you'll like it when it comes out :)


AND WE ALL SHOULD BE CHECKING OUT DUKE OMG
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 03, 2010, 12:09:30 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
I would be excited for this game over this trailer alone. Too bad I know the story. Pretty good though, I don't understand the music however.
The... story?

Heavens forbid knowing the story of a 2D Sonic game before you play it... RUINED!

The homing attack story, the slowing down when rolling story, the speed booster story. Those stories.

/not going back to the same old argument
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 03, 2010, 12:11:05 pm
Not this shit again...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 03, 2010, 12:12:41 pm
I'm just making that post clear.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 03, 2010, 01:25:18 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
And the Sega forums poster specifically contradicts himself.

quoting from your link:
Quote
Castlevania rebirth
Contra rebirth
Gradius rebirth
Megaman 9 and 10
Rocket knight
Bionic commando

All decent to good games. True to the orginals and overall good games

I agree with him, they are all decent to good games. But then he goes on to say:

Quote
Sonic 4 however, wow. It's failing in every possible way. I have been a sonicfan ever since the beginning and I have forgiven the franchise too much. I don't know if sonicteam's goal was to please the oldschoolfans but to be honest this game is making me hate sonic period.

I don't understand how the previously mentioned games are successes in his eyes, yet Sonic 4 is a fail. Megaman 9&10, for example, are carbon copies of what sequels would look like. Clearly catering to old school fans. But then he also says that Bionic commando and Rocket Knight are good. Yet these games do a lot of things that Sonic 4 does. HD visuals, 3D models, tweaked gameplay, direct sequel (Rocket Knight is).

No, he is right. Something like Bionic Commando ReArmed is EXACTLY what Sonic the Hedgehog 4 should be. Not a remake like that is, but it takes every single element from the original and just does not change it at all. It plays exactly the same way as everyone remembered. Yes they added new guns and grenades, but that does not change how the player moves around the level - Like Bionic Commando ReArmed 2 does, which I think seems like a disaster already.

Mega Man 9 is what most people probably wanted in Sonic the Hedgehog 4, but I think this is the easy way out. Nothing wrong with that when it actually works though, everything is as the players would have remembered it, the controls are the same, the physics are the same, the music is the same... Mega Man 10 is more of the same with less passion and all, but Sonic the Hedgehog 4 lacks a lot of passion to begin with IMHO so I think they are about even.

Rocket Knight uses new art and control tweaks, but again it does not go against original design patterns. Actually it improved on a lot of things the original games had (control issues, etc). I prefer the art in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to this, but I think my point still stands.

The ReBirth games are the best example of the lot I think. New art and graphics with new level concepts and art that fits in perfectly with the series all the long being sprited in great looking 2D like most people wanted. Not to mention a ton of the music is remixed AND all of the games are designed with Konami arcade hardware in mind, which is why it has the same sound effects... Brilliant idea. These were all done by the same people who did the cheap SEGA AGES 2500 series, so SEGA could have easily gotten them to work on a Sonic game

Something I would also like to add to the conversation is Bonk: Brink of Extinction. While the art is truly, truly terrible the staff behind it seem to really have a good idea with what the series should play like, unlike Sonic Team who think they can improve concepts with stuff that is linked to the downfall of the franchise. The game concepts are unchanged, and the only stuff added to expand the game would be as major as the different shields in Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Good extra features like online stuff (not just leaderboards) and new level art concepts and gimmicks make me think these people are trying harder than Sonic Team when it comes to Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 03, 2010, 10:28:45 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think you're being a bit over-pessimistic Tails.. Maybe you'll like it when it comes out :)


AND WE ALL SHOULD BE CHECKING OUT DUKE OMG
Over pessemistic or not, it doesnt really matter nomore. Maybe some days ago i would have cared and would still have been angry and stated the reason to as of why. I came to realise that i should just let go. Sonic has also played a big role in my childhood but finally accepting that sonic will never be as he was and letting go has made me feel relieved.

Call it overly dramatic or whatever but getting worked up about it is all in the past

Edit: @uranus, thanks for eleborating and i agree with everything u said

Edit2: new interview with iizuka
http://digitalchumps.com/gamingnews/86- ... izuka.html (http://digitalchumps.com/gamingnews/86-unofficial/5890-interview-sonic-teams-takashi-iizuka.html)

In my opinion he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh well...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 04, 2010, 01:28:18 pm
It just not as if Sonic influenced your life at all lol
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 05, 2010, 04:33:20 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
It just not as if Sonic influenced your life at all lol
It actually did, a lot. You might not notice, but that's maybe because you got to know me at a time where my interest has gone to 0%.

In the end time will tell whether sonic 4 will be bad or not. All I can say now is that every aspect of the game is meh to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 05, 2010, 04:42:48 am
Is it wrong that I think Sonic Colors looks better than Sonic 4? Maybe I have to just wait and play both and make up my mind.

SEGA is good at promoting Sonic games, with media stuff.... so good that everyone cheered at Sonic 06.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 05, 2010, 07:39:08 am
Quote from: "George"
Is it wrong that I think Sonic Colors looks better than Sonic 4? Maybe I have to just wait and play both and make up my mind.

No. Colours might feature the floaty gameplay from Unleashed but at least the Wisps gimmick is adding actual exploration to the levels.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on September 05, 2010, 10:12:08 am
Well, we can look at this way... Every single 3D Sonic has been notorious in one way or another, so Sonic Colors appears to have gotten more attention, because a good 3D Sonic game is something that seemed impossible after so many years of Sega trying and failing.

For Sonic 4, considering that all Sonic 2D games have been good, if not average at best(looking at you Sonic Advance 3), that game doesn't have that same pressure to do as well as Sonic Colors does. Sonic 4 is barebones 2D Sonic, it has much less to prove itself than what Sonic Colors is attempting to do.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 05, 2010, 02:39:56 pm
Apparently the PAX version of this is not the E3 build. Some people have said now Sonic is too slow to gain speed and you pretty much are forced to used the homing attack everywhere just to start running.

ALSO! In a new interview, Iizuka said the classic Sonic games were not about momentum and they need speed boosters and springs everywhere along with the homing attack to remain fun.

I am not even going to make fun of this guy anymore. Anyone who defends this idiot now is really bonkers.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on September 05, 2010, 03:04:20 pm
Quote
Some people have said now Sonic is too slow to gain speed and you pretty much are forced to used the homing attack everywhere just to start running.

This actually fits the description of the E3 version.

Plus, RubyEclipse already confirmed they are showing the E3 demo at PAX....which is a freakin' stupid idea. Why not show the updated version?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 05, 2010, 03:48:43 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Apparently the PAX version of this is not the E3 build. Some people have said now Sonic is too slow to gain speed and you pretty much are forced to used the homing attack everywhere just to start running.

ALSO! In a new interview, Iizuka said the classic Sonic games were not about momentum and they need speed boosters and springs everywhere along with the homing attack to remain fun.

I am not even going to make fun of this guy anymore. Anyone who defends this idiot now is really bonkers.

It is confirmed to be the E3 build and they have also said they are adressing this issue I'm pretty sure.
Title: Incompetent sonicteam
Post by: CrazyT on September 08, 2010, 06:13:28 pm
Some good news for all you guys, seems the delay was full of empty promises.

Quote
Originally Posted by RubyEclipse
There are some minor changes to music, most notably being one act that has actually had its music revamped completely. We'll reveal which act this is as part of our S4 Update Blogs.

Physics in general are not going to see too many massive changes, though know that I did push months ago to see how much would be possible. The biggest hurdle here was the level design, and the many ways that even small physics changes require updating almost every stage. It is never as easy as many might think, but I did ask and made sure it was brought to certain people's attention.

Our biggest focus with the updates has been to make a game that people can have fun playing. When you play Sonic 4, whether you're an old fan or a new fan, that you can enjoy the levels and not have any moments that are too frustrating or difficult, or that make you want to stop playing. No moments where a random gimmick forces you to lose the fun factor that the game had. This is why Lost Lab Act II saw major updates from the original design, and why other parts of the game are also being polished, including another big level update I think you guys will be glad to hear of.

In addition to the big stuff, and though physics won't be changed to the extent I know some people here would like, we have thrown in a number of small but important updates to other minor parts of the game. They are things that I doubt most reviewers will ever take note of, but that you guys as fans will hopefully appreciate. Some of these will also be revealed in our next S4 Update blog coming this month.

Though it's impossible to fulfill every request,I hope that the changes we have made will prove that our claims to have been listening are founded solidly, and that while we can't make every single person happy, we are doing what we can to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 08, 2010, 06:18:46 pm
No idea what you are talking about... I actually know some of the changes that have been made and it is far FAR from an empty promise.

A lot of the things from the leak have been fixed, let alone 2 full levels being completely revamped... Which were the biggest complaints with this game. Changes to music, changes to levels... Small things you wont notice.

But instead of taking notice of the things that WERE changed, were fixed you just bitch twice as much about the things that were previously second fiddle.

Give it a rest.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 08, 2010, 06:26:10 pm
What was that rant all about? He just posted a quote from RubyEclipse.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 08, 2010, 06:26:26 pm
CrazyTails you're being just crazy.

You don't like the game because it's not catered to your liking, we get it. But don't criticize the people that listened to our complaints and changed stuff for us.

Also, that cart level WAS in the XBLA version? I got that feeling. That's horrible!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 08, 2010, 06:32:46 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
But instead of taking notice of the things that WERE changed, were fixed you just bitch twice as much about the things that were previously second fiddle.

The physics were not and never were second fiddle, the only thing that can eclipse the complaints they received were the changes in level design for two stages, otherwise a lot of disliked the fact they were using Sonic Rush's physics engine instead of something closer to the original trilogy. Although I would argue just because they fixed one section that was terribly broken and horrible does not mean something much larger, the core physics of the title, should be forgotten too.

But it's not fair to say anything is second fiddle, a lot of complaints made with the physics came hand in hand with level design, they were also as Ruby mentioned interconnected. It is just as how the homing attack is part of the level design, it radically affects the way the game has to be played. They obviously do not have the time and perhaps not even putting in the resources that is required to create a game that they’re trying to aim for.

I think people who enjoyed the Sonic Advance games and Sonic Rush games will enjoy this one though, but I think those who were hoping for a large dose of classic nostelgia might skip this one, although I am sure a lot of little references people will still like.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 08, 2010, 06:33:38 pm
Quote
Physics in general are not going to see too many massive changes

Note he said not too many massive changes, meaning there were still one or two massive changes and probably a number of small tweaks. Wait 'til more preview impressions before jumping the ol' gun. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 08, 2010, 06:39:55 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
You don't like the game because it's not catered to your liking, we get it. But don't criticize the people that listened to our complaints and changed stuff for us.

Why not? If you expect the very best from people, when they return to you with something that is not to your liking how are you meant to react? It's only because he cares so much he is reacting like this.

I have learnt not to expect from the series what I once was, hence why I have such apathy and why I often stay away from the large discussions we sometimes fall into even though I strongly disagree with basic core principles, such as the change from momentum based gameplay to speed based reaction gameplay, the change in level design and of course the homing attack.

But many feel differently and it is not as if he has openly attacked Ruby, however he did promise the return to momentum based gameplay, which I will hold out until I see this new version, the old version of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 had very little of that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 08, 2010, 06:42:41 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Note he said not too many massive changes, meaning there were still one or two massive changes and probably a number of small tweaks. Wait 'til more preview impressions before jumping the ol' gun. :)

I do not think we can expect too much, Ruby is correct when he said if you drastically change the physics, a lot of the level design would have to be changed. Hopefully Sonic standing at an angle is changed but in all, I would not expect too many changes from what people expected. The majority of extra development time was probably spent on changing the two level designs around.

Hopefully Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II fixes the issues in time, which I am sure someone like Ruby will be pushing for.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 08, 2010, 06:57:22 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
No idea what you are talking about... I actually know some of the changes that have been made and it is far FAR from an empty promise.

A lot of the things from the leak have been fixed, let alone 2 full levels being completely revamped... Which were the biggest complaints with this game. Changes to music, changes to levels... Small things you wont notice.

But instead of taking notice of the things that WERE changed, were fixed you just bitch twice as much about the things that were previously second fiddle.

Give it a rest.
I gave it a rest weeks ago. The reason mainly i'm upset is not even why the name sonic 4 is being abused for sale purposes, but mainly this.

"Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse."

This is what rubyeclipse teased us with even before sonic 4 was anounced and I will forgive him in doing so, but I won't forget about it.

I don't know if you realise, but the reason that sonic became so big was not just the character, the graphics or the game mechanics(like roll jump, monitors and stuff)

The physics played a number 1 role, as in without the physics the classics would have never been such timeless games. The physics were unique than and they are still now. You may not realise when you play them but unconsciously it is.

You won't see me complain because my expectations were at 0% allready, but to those who were believing in the updates have all rights to do so if you ask me.

I'm outta here and anticipating a game made with passion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 08, 2010, 07:07:43 pm
I think we can all agree that for the devs more important than what fans want is the goals imposed by Sega. That is a budget limit, a certain development window and at least some predetermined level of quality.

The game is a game for the fans. So I think that they did the best they could under their limitations to cater the game to mass appeal of the fan base.

I don't imagine them editing 2 levels and then saying "well it's done.. let's all stare at eachothers until the game comes out". They are using their time to improve the game the best they can.

The basic physics engine is the first thing coded into the game. They would never change that. Nor basic game mechanics (like the homing attack) that have the stage design built around them.

But they did tweak some things out. I don't see how we can argue that they aren't doing enough and that they made "empty promises" when the little changes they made might actually be enough to achieve the same effect we want without restarting the whole game making process.

Again, I think the devs are showing they are listening to the fans. And I do not think it's right to downright call them liars. At least play the game before saying those things, know what I'm sayin..

~~~~
@CrazyTails
The physics were wrong. They said they tweaked it out. You haven't seen the changes they made yet. What are you complaining about?

Fans just like to complain sometimes.
Example, did you not enjoy Metroid M while the fans are all apeshit over it? Do they not seem unreasonable? Fans will just complain about stuff everyone's fine with.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 08, 2010, 07:10:33 pm
Update:

Quote
Rubyeclipse
My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them. I think this is better than people really expecting them to change too much, and conversely expecting something different than they get when they download it. Keeping expectations realistic is the key.

As to the Iizuka-san quote, what were you looking for in a response? It sounds like his personal opinion to me, so there's not too much room for me to comment further.  

Quote from: "crackdude"
@CrazyTails
The physics were wrong. They said they tweaked it out. You haven't seen the changes they made yet. What are you complaining about?

Fans just like to complain sometimes.
Example, did you not enjoy Metroid M while the fans are all apeshit over it? Do they not seem unreasonable? Fans will just complain about stuff everyone's fine with.
Don't you even try it  ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 08, 2010, 07:27:54 pm
I can take back the high confidence way I wrote my previous posts if you want, but this new "update" says nothing new really. It means they did change some things.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 08, 2010, 07:41:07 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think we can all agree that for the devs more important than what fans want is the goals imposed by Sega. That is a budget limit, a certain development window and at least some predetermined level of quality.

Yes however, do you think SEGA told them to insert minecart and a giant casino board level into the game? This was something in the end cost SEGA time and money and yes, they have restrictions, but so does every other publisher and developer. Here are some facts, this game started life in January 2009, originally slated for June/July release this year, that's a time frame of over a year and a half. That's six extra months the classic Sonic games, bar Sonic CD, did not have.

We of course cannot discuss team size and budget, but the fact is they've had more time to develop a smaller game.

Quote from: "crackdude"
I don't imagine them editing 2 levels and then saying "well it's done.. let's all stare at eachothers until the game comes out". They are using their time to improve the game the best they can.

I said the majority of development time was spent changing those two levels, which they probably did. They obviously did other things, but they would pale in comprisions to the changes made there.

Quote from: "crackdude"
The basic physics engine is the first thing coded into the game. They would never change that. Nor basic game mechanics (like the homing attack) that have the stage design built around them.

But they did tweak some things out. I don't see how we can argue that they aren't doing enough and that they made "empty promises" when the little changes they made might actually be enough to achieve the same effect we want without restarting the whole game making process.

Again, I think the devs are showing they are listening to the fans. And I do not think it's right to downright call them liars. At least play the game before saying those things, know what I'm sayin.

The same effect you may want, not what the other group were promised though.

CrazyTails posted a quote from Ruby that goes against the entire design of the game that Ruby said it did. It is of course not his fault and boils down to the men up top, but it is what he used to describe the game, it would be one thing if he said "A new Sonic game, aiming to get closer to the roots of the series is coming soon!" however he went on with a full blown description that completely misleads everyone who want a return to better times. Infact the ending line goes against everything that someone like CrazyTails could expect.

So how can this not be called an empty promise or a lie? I realize you wish to defend the game, but this is a fact you cannot side foot around. Ruby said something that is completely not true for this Project Needlemouse in terms of it's gameplay, which was his intial quote.

Quote from: "crackdude"
The physics were wrong. They said they tweaked it out. You haven't seen the changes they made yet. What are you complaining about?

You do realize you are talking about perhaps extremely minor changes, a few glitches changed but overall, you are still getting Sonic Rush's physic engine. Yes it might be polished and tweaked a bit, but this is not the physic engine we wanted.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Example, did you not enjoy Metroid M while the fans are all apeshit over it? Do they not seem unreasonable? Fans will just complain about stuff everyone's fine with.

That's because you are no fan of Metroid and I would like it if you refrain from commenting on it unless you are a fan. The game might be fine but this is not what Metroid is about, the lengthy plot (Calling it "deep" would be an insult to actual good story telling) removal of exploration and a drastic change on core fundamentals of what is Metroid.

We do not become fans of the series simply because of x character, we become fans of the content. If this content is radically changed, why should I care or even have a positive opinion about it if it's something I personally think is not befitting?

So please, do not say fans like to complain, a lot of us do have good rational reasons, it be one thing if it's change in just character design, another thing when it effectively changes the gameplay which is what many have voiced their concerns over.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 08, 2010, 07:55:04 pm
There are some errors in the e3 build physics that don't only make the physics bad, but make them bad period.

Stuff like standing horizontal on walls and going in a halt after releasing the directional button are things no platformer I can think of have.

So for those still supporting the game, I hope that with minor changes they fixed those kind of errors.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on September 08, 2010, 07:55:59 pm
I pretty pissed off at this. They promised us they would be going back and fixing the physics. Now they're saying that the physics will barely be changed?

Wow....just wow.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 08, 2010, 08:01:00 pm
I am not shocked at all. The passion we can all see in stuff like Sonic Colors is not here. Yeah, I appreciate that they used classic sounds and concepts, but the fact that they mixed up the rolling and the spindash sounds with one another are just such strange issues that even people who have not played the series since the early 90s would have not mixed up. They simply just do not want to make the game.

Remember when Sonic games were developed by professionals who made great games without any outside help or motivation other than "We need to make this better than Mario!"? This is a big difference with Sonic the Hedgehog 4, which is being designed around what the fans whine about and what Sonic Team thinks is better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 08, 2010, 08:18:17 pm
"I realize you wish to defend the game, but this is a fact you cannot side foot around. Ruby said something that is completely not true for this Project Needlemouse in terms of it's gameplay, which was his intial quote."
I wouldn't personally say 'completely not true' without playing the final product, but I see where you're aiming at. Yes, you are right in that.

As for the Metroid part, I too like to complain when I think something is not right. Still, you do know I'm a little bit more passive at it than most of you guys before actually trying out the games.
But the core fundamentals of Sonic will not change with this game. I don't see how.

There is one thing that you might agree with me:
If this game wasn't called Sonic 4, all these discussions would be more tame and less critical. And that's the problem Sonic Team has to handle here.
When I look at Sonic 4 I see a possibly good fun game with throwbacks to the past. But then comes the feeling that it doesn't actually follow up the originals. And that's what most of these discussions are about.
Homing attack for example I think is a non-issue but has made some people here pretty mad because it effectively changes some old mechanics. Not that it will be worse, but the simple fact it's different bugs many here.

I think Sonic Team made a huge mistake in calling this Sonic 4. And the fact that more episodes are coming under that name can be "frighting"

@CrazyTails
I'm pretty sure those particular things will be corrected. You don't need a new engine to correct that. Stop being silly.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 08, 2010, 08:19:53 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Remember when Sonic games were developed by professionals who made great games without any outside help or motivation other than "We need to make this better than Mario!"? This is a big difference with Sonic the Hedgehog 4, which is being designed around what the fans whine about and what Sonic Team thinks is better.
If you put it that way, Sonic 4 seems pretty shit.

They should really change the name.. There's a different motivation behind the game really.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 08, 2010, 08:24:15 pm
The game is probably going to sell millions anyway, though I do wonder how much Sonic Colours will eat into that game's sales since it's generating much much more hype.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 08, 2010, 09:00:48 pm
4's four platforms and low price will probably have no problem against Colors one platform (the DS version is totally different from the Wii version, unlike 4's iPhone version, thus why I said one platform) and $50 price. I'm also guessing that 4 will release in October, giving a good month between the games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 08, 2010, 09:45:59 pm
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 10, 2010, 08:44:43 pm
Did someone call the WAAAAMBULANCE?

Who ******* cares if its Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 10, 2010, 08:54:24 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Did someone call the WAAAAMBULANCE?

Who ******* cares if its Sonic 4.

True fans?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 10, 2010, 09:03:34 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.

It is a big deal that it is called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, and not something else. I mean, if SEGA released Shenmue Online, but retitled it Shenmue III, I bet you would be bitching five times harder than anyone has about this.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 10, 2010, 09:20:47 pm
Shenmue Online = completely different gameplay and doesn't star Ryo, thus wouldn't make sense as Shenmue III

Sonic 4 = very similar gameplay and stars Sonic, thus makes sense it would be Sonic 4

Comparison null! What if in two years time we get Shenmue 3, however it is running on some sort of modified Yakuza engine and the graphics are more like VF5? Still, it plays like a Shenmue game but feels newer and tweaked. Is it undeserving of the title Shenmue 3? I mean, the graphics are different and the engine is different yet similar. Guess it would have to be undeserving of the title and proclaimed shit just as Sonic 4 has been.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 10, 2010, 09:31:03 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Shenmue Online = completely different gameplay and doesn't star Ryo, thus wouldn't make sense as Shenmue III

Sonic 4 = very similar gameplay and stars Sonic, thus makes sense it would be Sonic 4

Comparison null! What if in two years time we get Shenmue 3, however it is running on some sort of modified Yakuza engine and the graphics are more like VF5? Still, it plays like a Shenmue game but feels newer and tweaked. Is it undeserving of the title Shenmue 3? I mean, the graphics are different and the engine is different yet similar. Guess it would have to be undeserving of the title and proclaimed shit just as Sonic 4 has been.

That would not be so bad as AM2 actually does not suck ass and both Yakuza and Virtua Fighter 5 have great art regardless. [spoiler:u506k232]/joke[/spoiler:u506k232]

I think you are looking into my point too much. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is not shit, it is just not anywhere close to as good as it should or could be. If it was called something else, most of us would not mind anywhere near as much. Like Sonic Free Riders, we all know it sucks, who cares? It is a spinoff and does not try to sell itself on anything other than the Sonic name itself.

In the state Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is in, it is actually a bit of an offense to many of the fans. If they did not know how to do it right they should have tried making some similar games first and THEN move onto Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 10, 2010, 10:07:06 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.

It is a big deal that it is called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, and not something else. I mean, if SEGA released Shenmue Online, but retitled it Shenmue III, I bet you would be bitching five times harder than anyone has about this.

I'm sure I would... But that isnt a very good comparison. Shenmue Online doesn't follow the same gameplay or story as Shenmue cannon. Thankfully it was canned.

This game is very much like a classic Sonic game... It just doesn't meet your personal tastes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 10, 2010, 10:26:14 pm
Yes, but still even I now believe it's a bit risky to name it after the classic series when they are changing quite a bit the game design overall.
I'm okay with this, but some fans may not.

Still, I think the audience in general won't notice/care about it at all and the 4 in the name will help selling way more copies.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 10, 2010, 10:42:37 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I'm sure I would... But that isnt a very good comparison. Shenmue Online doesn't follow the same gameplay or story as Shenmue cannon. Thankfully it was canned.

I thought Shenmue Online was planned to follow up Shenmue II? Story wise, I see no reason why they could not be able to connect the plots together, especially when all of the main characters from both of the games were most likely set to appear. On the gameplay side, it seems similar enough in the sense of how similar Sonic games are now to what the old titles were. A lot of the same elements are still there.

Quote from: "Sharky"
This game is very much like a classic Sonic game... It just doesn't meet your personal tastes.

Nah, I am usually really open to Sonic games. I like Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Spinball and even Sonic 3D Blast, if not just for it's music.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 should just be better. I can appreciate your opinion, but you are not even really trying to see what any of us mean when we are disappointed with something in this.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Yes, but still even I now believe it's a bit risky to name it after the classic series when they are changing quite a bit the game design overall.
I'm okay with this, but some fans may not.

Still, I think the audience in general won't notice/care about it at all and the 4 in the name will help selling way more copies.

I think people who have kept playing Sonic games all of these years will be alright with it/like it, but ones who skipped the 3D games will most likely have a lot of problems that even some of us might miss. Some previews on the game reflect this.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MrFranklin on September 11, 2010, 06:32:55 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I think people who have kept playing Sonic games all of these years will be alright with it/like it, but ones who skipped the 3D games will most likely have a lot of problems that even some of us might miss. Some previews on the game reflect this.

Yeah probably. At this point I've accepted realistic expectations that Iizuka simply doesn't care all that much about momentium gameplay.

At this point I just want the game to be fun, no awkard physics getting you stuck on a simple platform etc. Just hoping its at least polished enough y'know.

I guess it's pretty obvious by now that most of the devs at Dimps & Sonic Team think that classic enough, is simply having spin dash, having no boost button or tricks option, classic badniks and having themes that are similar to what we'd see in the first games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 11, 2010, 06:29:07 pm
New previews(special thanks to blue blood from SSMB)

1) http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/iPhone/S ... sp?c=23441 (http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/iPhone/Sonic+The+Hedgehog+4/news.asp?c=23441) Pocket Gamer preview

Some notable stuff:
Quote
Interestingly, all levels in a zone are available for play upon unlocking the zone. Balough insists this will eliminate the arbitrary difficulty curve that has marred previous instalments by allowing you to select the levels you want to play, perhaps even avoiding ones that you have trouble completing.

Notably, you have to finish all three stages in a zone to unlock the boss battle so you're still pushed into tackling those tricky levels.

I'm starting to think they're doing it on purpose. What was so classic about this game again?


2) http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/a ... ineup.html (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/205274/first_look_segas_fall_games_lineup.html) PC World preview
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 11, 2010, 06:37:04 pm
I don't like how they're handling the level select, then again I use the level select code almost 99% of the time when I boot up a Sonic game. It'll be odd the first playthrough, but after that I'll enjoy playing the stages that I want to play.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 13, 2010, 03:05:35 pm
Quote
"Originally the game was supposed to come out in summer this year. While it wasn't really apparent at the time, we announced this as a PSN, XBLA and WiiWare title but at the same time the iPhone version of Sonic 4 was also in development. The team wanted the game to work really well on the iPhone with the same stages and the same kind of mechanics as the console versions, but it didn't really work the way the team imagined. What they did was they kept the iPhone version closer to the original and they went back to the console version and changed some stages to be better playable on console. That's the reason behind the delay and the extension in the development schedule." - Sonic Team's Takashi Iizuka
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!
Iphone, making it closer to the original. Mine kart. ^.^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on September 14, 2010, 01:36:42 pm
That's right! Since the game is a downloadable title and not a packaged title, you can surely say that Sega was thinking only about fast cash.

 Thanks God it was leaked before release.

 They are doing changes, ok, but still looking shitty compaired with the previous genuine Sonic The Hedgehog series titles.

 Cheap graphics, poor art, bad musics, odd characters motions, shorter than ever.

 Also, where are the shields from Sonic 3?

 Man, I can't forgot the background graphics of the bonus stage! Holy shit! It's so poor, so ridiculous... :///
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 14, 2010, 02:17:44 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
shorter than ever.
Remember: Episode 1. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 14, 2010, 03:45:52 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "STORM!"
shorter than ever.
Remember: Episode 1. :P
That doesn't mean anything, episode 1 might've as well had 7 zones. But who cares, even if it had 7, wouldn't make the game better anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 14, 2010, 03:56:37 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
That doesn't mean anything, episode 1 might've as well had 7 zones. But who cares, even if it had 7, wouldn't make the game better anyway.
I know, I was just sayin' that Sonic 4 as a whole will be longer than 4 zones....... eventually.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 14, 2010, 03:57:03 pm
Doesn't have 7 zones, but I'm glad it has three acts per zone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 14, 2010, 04:07:10 pm
Sonic 4 will most likely be a retail package after all volumes come out. I don't know how 'releasing it on PSN/XBLA/Wiiware/itunes' automatically means quick bucks. It is obvious that retail titles sell way better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 14, 2010, 06:19:41 pm
I prefer Sonic 4 to be downloadable. It looks and plays like a classic arcade title.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 14, 2010, 06:58:40 pm
I wish SEGA would have went with the 'overly animated' look, I like when games are like that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 15, 2010, 12:00:07 pm
Gamespot preview confirms that a world map is replacing the bland menu that we've seen forever. It's been doubly confirmed by the head of TSS: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/ ... e=previews (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/projectneedlemouse/news.html?sid=6275806&om_act=convert&om_clk=picks&tag=picks;title;3&mode=previews)

(http://http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070302132806/sonic/images/d/d1/Sonic01.jpg)
^obviously this isn't it
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 15, 2010, 12:02:41 pm
Nice little touches indeed. you know what another nice touch would be? Physics less similair to the rush series and more to the genesis titles. One can hope for the most obvious aspect of the classics to come back.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 15, 2010, 12:39:50 pm
More good news, everyone!

from TSS's Dreadknux:
Quote
I forgot to mention. There's a choice, actually, of whether you want classic progression or not. Once you pass that Act Clear marker, and the score counts down, a button will appear at the bottom of the screen (I think it was Triangle on the PS3 preview version or something), that says "Jump to Next Act." If you don't do this before the fadeout, you go back to the World Map screen.

Note I said World Map - as in "awesome, detailed static world view," and not "shitty, confusing 3D world hub." =P

So you can in fact play from act to act without returning to the map, you just have to press a button!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 15, 2010, 03:46:33 pm
Sounds good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 19, 2010, 08:20:49 pm
Off screen video of new build at J-pop summit festival.

[youtube:1h9qx2jr]OkocJI1Kacw[/youtube:1h9qx2jr]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 20, 2010, 03:15:05 am
That girl was extremely excited, well so were several people in the background, but she was in particular.

Level design for act 1 looks to be pretty much intact from the original build. Spindash seems to be faster this time round.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 20, 2010, 07:28:16 am
Ugh! Why doesn't SEGA cancel this game???!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 20, 2010, 04:22:47 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Ugh! Why doesn't SEGA cancel this game???!!!
They're clearly just out to get under the skin of older gamers who have too much free time on their hands.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 20, 2010, 05:09:52 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Ugh! Why doesn't SEGA cancel this game???!!!
Wait a minute... What have you done to Barry??!!!!

what happened bro?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 20, 2010, 06:13:02 pm
Nah, lolz, just pretending to be an overstressed Sonic fan. I'm cool. In fact, I'm loving the totally revamped menu system. It's a breath of fresh air after months of seeing the bland level select screens.

Speaking of those who wish SEGA would simply cancel the entire game (nobody here, mostly a few folks at TSS and commenting on YouTube), I have to ask if they are actually serious and if they have any idea of how the game industry works. When something like Sonic 4 is so far along (completed according to a few recent interviews), why in the hell would SEGA shoot themselves in the foot and cancel the thing after a year+ of work, tons of marketing and already reworking a good amount of the game. Begging for an additional overhaul and 2011 release I can understand, but hoping the thing is cancelled is just plain stupid.

Almost as stupid as the kids who ask SEGA to rerelease Power Stone 2 to XBLA.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 20, 2010, 07:29:38 pm
I gotta be honest that even though I don't like the game, I can see the efforts and see that they have done their best they  could do in making the game look better ever since the delay.

Complaining, whining now is kind of redundant seeing how sonic 4 = as good as finished(or almost finished).

I'm looking forward to see how well received the game is gonna be by the media. Maybe it'll convince me to buy the game eventually.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 20, 2010, 09:25:35 pm
I'm looking forward to it... Looks like the best 2D Sonic game we have had since Sonic and Knuckles.

I'm very sure it wont top Sonic 2 for me but then Sonic 3 and S&K didn't either. Still good fun games in their own right.

I'm pretty damn sure it'll be better then Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 21, 2010, 07:28:18 am
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Complaining, whining now is kind of redundant seeing how sonic 4 = as good as finished(or almost finished).

As much as I dislike the complainers complaining, I disagree. Once the game comes out, I say everybody (even haters) should give it a go and truthfully pick out what they didn't like and be vocal about it. We have two to three more episodes to go, and if the valid complaints are vocal enough they very well could influence and improve future episodes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 21, 2010, 08:45:29 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
When something like Sonic 4 is so far along (completed according to a few recent interviews), why in the hell would SEGA shoot themselves in the foot and cancel the thing after a year+ of work, tons of marketing and already reworking a good amount of the game.

(http://http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/shenmue/shenmueus-logo.gif)

In its current state, I wouldn't be sad to see Sonic 4 go.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 21, 2010, 09:26:22 am
What does Shenmue have to do with it?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 21, 2010, 09:49:43 am
Shenmue I was ready for the Saturn, Shenmue II was canceled for Dreamcast US release and Shenmue III had a lot of work done on it too.

I think it would be a terrible idea to cancel this game, but I just wish they called it something else when they were still not sure how to make a real Sonic the Hedgehog 4 yet.
Title: New Casino Street videos and preview
Post by: CrazyT on September 23, 2010, 11:52:10 am
New casino street trailer video + preview from Joystiq.

Video:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic ... eets-zone/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic-4-episode-1-lets-it-ride-on-the-casino-streets-zone/)

Preview:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic ... 1-preview/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-preview/)


I'm actually quite impressed :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 23, 2010, 12:37:46 pm
I caught this earlier, very cool stuff! Posted it on our front page so we look like we keep up with whats going on.  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 24, 2010, 02:45:05 pm
What.

Last time I was here CrazyTails was angry at Sonic 4 and was raging pretty hard.. What changed buddy? :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 25, 2010, 05:16:26 am
I just care a lot less about the game and I also accepted the game as it is. Basically I cannot be dissapointed with that mindset, so every little upgrade is good.

I decided to support episode 1, since i've been lurking around the sega forums. Sega staff seem to be there and listening to us. If  that's true, I want to show my support for episode 1 and hope episode 2 will be good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 25, 2010, 06:23:45 am
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 25, 2010, 10:37:59 am
I know..

It's just that this is all pretty new. Sonic 4 is the first game to have fans involved with the development of a sonic game, also resulting in the game to get delayed, and even though not ending the way I would have wanted it, still a lot has improved ever since.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt with episode 1, hoping for a better episode 2.

If episode 2 turns out looking as cheap, still has the same physics, built with the homing attack in mind without having an option of some sort..

well let's see first :). There's a thread at the sega forums where ken balough is talking with us. He's talking the same PR bullshit like always, but that's his job ofcourse. Though for the first time we can at least tell him what's on our mind so he gets an image of what the general retro fans want exactly.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=345559 (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=345559)

I also posted a pretty large post over there, also a list of the things that I would like to see changed in eps 2.

Quote
> Physics ofcourse: They should resemble the pinball physics of the classics or better. The physics were really a big part of why the classics were so great.

> An option to pick the classic sonic model. I never really had something against the newer sonic model, but sonic 4 just cries for the classic model, it would make the experience just a little bit more special for some of us.

> The homing attack should become a 100% optional thing. Stages should not be built with the homing attack in mind, instead they should be built without it. Almost nobody likes mindlesly tapping the jump button at enemy bridges, I think those who like the move, enjoy the random use at random enemies of the homing attack. Or if the developers would want to take this idea to a next level, why not adjust the gameplay a little bit for both modes. Like if you play with homing attack, enemy home bridges will be found, if you play without it, platforms take the place of enemies.
However the best choice if you ask me, would be to bring back the insta-shield The move he used to have in sonic 3(without an elemental shield).

> Uncurling. This is something that almost no one likes. Sonic should be kept in ball form when he shoots of a ramp.

> Speed boosters shouldn't be everywhere. I guess when the physics are fixed, they won't be nescesary. I'm all for level specific gimmick speed boosters like in
chemical plant zone(second zone in sonic 2). But a whole game where some artificial boosters do everything for you is just lame.

> Level design with less automation. This is kind of a follow up to the previous "speed booster" point. I've noticed how the level design in splash hill, and to some extent in other zones do a lot of things for you. I.E. bits where you go from speed booster to spring to spring to spring than home to and enemy, home again to zipline, from zipline to speed booster which makes you spin and kills all the enemies ahead of you and again to spring. It looks awesome of course, but it's a waste of having great level design instead. It makes you feel like the game is playing itself and doesn't let you do what you want, instead forcing you to take a certain path. I know that even in the classics there were instants where you'd blaze through a big sequence, but the stages overall were still requiring full input of the player. You'd still have a large portion of stage without them.

> The music. I think the music for episode 1 is decent. I like how they chose the direction of making the music sound as if it was made for the genesis. For episode 2 however, if they keep continuing this road, I hope the music comes closer to the quality music from the classics. Maybe have more people do the music instead of just jun senoue. As long the music sounds good, I don't mind the 16 bit sound quality that much. I actually love the genesis music chip.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 25, 2010, 01:03:29 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.

I know you want to do your best to dump on this game and the people behind it as much as you can. But don't make things up...

First of all the community team like Ruby do have quite a bit of say in the final product of Sonic 4... Why do you think shit like the minecart and the pinball level were turned into what could be some of the best levels of the game?

Secondly this Ken guy thats on the forum is actually a producers of Sonic 4.

There are some things that just can't be changed at this stange in the games development but they ARE listening and they are fixing as much as they can.

I'm not going to try and make you get Sonic 4 Episode 1 but this is still the closest thing too a classic Sonic game we have had in many years and far more steps in the right direction. Not to mention for all its so called 'faults' it looks fun.

I'll be buying Sonic 4 Episode 1 and I'll make sure I let Sega know everything I don't like about it so they can get one step closer to a perfect Sonic game with Episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 25, 2010, 01:17:40 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.

I know you want to do your best to dump on this game and the people behind it as much as you can. But don't make things up...

First of all the community team like Ruby do have quite a bit of say in the final product of Sonic 4... Why do you think shit like the minecart and the pinball level were turned into what could be some of the best levels of the game?

The negative feedback surrounding the strange minecart was so loud they had to listen to a POSITIVE change, for a change. Ruby also said the game would feature the classic momentum-based gameplay from the classics. That's a lie. He also said the homing attack is optional. Also a lie.

By the way, I do not want to dump the people behind this game. Just the one. He has proved he doesn't know what he's doing, he can't lead.

Quote
Secondly this Ken guy thats on the forum is actually a producers of Sonic 4.

There are some things that just can't be changed at this stange in the games development but they ARE listening and they are fixing as much as they can.

He is not a producer like Iizuka. He sends feedback he gets from the community and that appears to be it. He looks like another PR guy to me. If he was actually a producer he wouldn't have time to post around in forums.

Quote
I'm not going to try and make you get Sonic 4 Episode 1 but this is still the closest thing too a classic Sonic game we have had in many years and far more steps in the right direction. Not to mention for all its so called 'faults' it looks fun.

My idea of fun with a "classic" Sonic game is not press right and A mindlessly to win. I assume this is "classic" and not "Advance/Rush" since it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

Quote
I'll be buying Sonic 4 Episode 1 and I'll make sure I let Sega know everything I don't like about it so they can get one step closer to a perfect Sonic game with Episode 2.

Even if in the process you are likely supporting a broken product? Per what they said about "returning to the roots" of course, not as a game itself. I mean, if they sell this game a lot (and they will) they'll just stick to the same basic elements and make new levels... If there were no PR lies and no Mega Drive Sonic's I'd see this game in a brighter way.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 25, 2010, 01:29:01 pm
Its 15 bucks

****
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 25, 2010, 01:42:40 pm
If that's true, just watch it get bad reviews.

Price+quality+content= around 5/6?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 25, 2010, 03:50:39 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
The negative feedback surrounding the strange minecart was so loud they had to listen to a POSITIVE change, for a change.
Ok so... They do listen? cool.

Quote
Ruby also said the game would feature the classic momentum-based gameplay from the classics. That's a lie. He also said the homing attack is optional. Also a lie.
Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?


Quote
He is not a producer like Iizuka. He sends feedback he gets from the community and that appears to be it. He looks like another PR guy to me. If he was actually a producer he wouldn't have time to post around in forums.
What a load of crap... I have been on plenty of forums where developers, producers all sorts post on the forums... Hell even SOL from Sumo digital came to THIS very forum.

Also if he sends feedback... does that not just void your original post about how not to be fooled because they aren’t listening?


Quote
My idea of fun with a "classic" Sonic game is not press right and A mindlessly to win. I assume this is "classic" and not "Advance/Rush" since it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
I can get though acts in classic Sonic pushing just right and A... I bet you can't complete Sonic 4 just pressing right and A. But if you want to prove you can I look forward to the video evidence!

Quote
Even if in the process you are likely supporting a broken product? Per what they said about "returning to the roots" of course, not as a game itself. I mean, if they sell this game a lot (and they will) they'll just stick to the same basic elements and make new levels... If there were no PR lies and no Mega Drive Sonic's I'd see this game in a brighter way.
The choice is simply,

-Buy this game and take it for what it is... A less then perfect but still closest to classic as we have had for many years. And hope that when they make Episode 2 they take complaints into consideration.

or

-Don't support this game, possibility of series underselling and they simply stop trying to make classic Sonic games because there is no market for it.

Will it undersell? Probably not. But fuck it, the game looks fun... Sue me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 25, 2010, 04:42:47 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Ok so... They do listen? cool.

They do, they have been for a number of years and they seem to pay more attention to the bad ideas rather than the good. Arch Angel UK's blog post telling classic Sonic fans to stop picking on newer fans makes me wonder about a lot of things.

Quote
Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?

Internal mix up? What kind of excuse is that? :lol: Sir, I can choose not to use the homing attack but then I would be deprived of the sections of the game built around it. The homing attack is only optional inside your head. If it was optional then I would be able to enjoy the whole game without it. Not this discussion again. When the game is out feel free to record a complete run through the game without using the move and completely exploring the maps. I will gladly watch it.

Quote
What a load of crap... I have been on plenty of forums where developers, producers all sorts post on the forums... Hell even SOL from Sumo digital came to THIS very forum.

Also if he sends feedback... does that not just void your original post about how not to be fooled because they aren’t listening?

S0L rarely posts here or anywhere else really. Either way, someone who sends feedback back to the development teams is far from being called a producer. I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4, but he's definitely not doing a producer's job. Not the way I see it anyway. As for the feedback, read above.

Quote
I can get though acts in classic Sonic pushing just right and A... I bet you can't complete Sonic 4 just pressing right and A. But if you want to prove you can I look forward to the video evidence!

The same way I can show you videos of that being done on Sonic 4?

Quote
The choice is simply,

-Buy this game and take it for what it is... A less then perfect but still closest to classic as we have had for many years. And hope that when they make Episode 2 they take complaints into consideration.

Hope. How can one hope if the developers are ignoring the basic principles of "classic" as you insist calling this game? Why hope for changes in "episode 2" when they had more than enough time to get rid of stupid things in the game like speed boosters and the rolling slowing you down? I would gladly take a strange minecart level over homing attack, speed-based gameplay in the whole game.

Quote
or

-Don't support this game, possibility of series underselling and they simply stop trying to make classic Sonic games because there is no market for it.

There would be, if there was someone at the helm willing to do classic Sonic games. A speed-based mechanic is not classic Sonic.  

Quote
Will it undersell? Probably not. But fuck it, the game looks fun... Sue me.

The game looks fun? Fair enough, just don't call it Sonic 4, call it Sonic Rush HD. That's what bothers me the most. I've been a Sega costumer and fan for nearly 20 years. I think I have the right to be negative towards something every once in a while, especially when what once was the company's flagship (and my favourite) studio is now the laughing stock of the industry.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 25, 2010, 05:10:24 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
They do, they have been for a number of years and they seem to pay more attention to the bad ideas rather than the good. Arch Angel UK's blog post telling classic Sonic fans to stop picking on newer fans makes me wonder about a lot of things.
AAUK is one guy... a bit of a knob and a Sonic fanboy. That isnt much of an indication of anything.



Quote
Internal mix up? What kind of excuse is that?
A very good one plenty of things get lost in translation when the company mainly Japanese speaking. This is exactly what happened with the Yakuza 3 content.

Quote
:lol: Sir, I can choose not to use the homing attack but then I would be deprived of the sections of the game built around it.
So use it... It is still optional.

Quote
When the game is out feel free to record a complete run through the game without using the move and completely exploring the maps. I will gladly watch it.
But I don't need to I don't see any problem with using the homing attack when needs be... So there is a couple of sections where you might need to use it. SO what? In Sonic 2 there is a couple of sections where you NEED to spin dash which you couldnt do in Sonic 1. What is even the big deal with it?

The main issue with homing attack is making normal enemies and the boss battles too easy... Which IS optional.

Do YOU even know why it is such a big problem anymore? Or has it become some buzz word for why this game sucks?

Quote
S0L rarely posts here or anywhere else really. Either way, someone who sends feedback back to the development teams is far from being called a producer. I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4, but he's definitely not doing a producer's job. Not the way I see it anyway. As for the feedback, read above.
How often he comes here or not is totally beside the point. Do you even know how often this Ken guy has been on the Sonic forum? He only signed up 2 days ago and I doubt he has been on that often.

Quote
I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4,
Bingo...


Quote
The same way I can show you videos of that being done on Sonic 4?
Exactly... So it's just like the classics!

Quote
Hope. How can one hope if the developers are ignoring the basic principles of "classic" as you insist calling this game? Why hope for changes in "episode 2" when they had more than enough time to get rid of stupid things in the game like speed boosters and the rolling slowing you down? I would gladly take a strange minecart level over homing attack, speed-based gameplay in the whole game.
You don't know the first thing about developing videogames. I don't claim to either but I know that changing/creating a level is much quicker and easier then changing the physics of the engine. Chances are they just didn't have time to go back and revisit all of these things for Episode 1.

If they go back and take the time to remove 2 levels and completely remake 2 new levels with some completely new features what makes you think they aren't listening or don't care. There is more too it then just 'OH THEY COULD DO IT BUT THEY DON'T CARE'



Quote
The game looks fun? Fair enough, just don't call it Sonic 4, call it Sonic Rush HD. That's what bothers me the most. I've been a Sega costumer and fan for nearly 20 years. I think I have the right to be negative towards something every once in a while, especially when what once was the company's flagship (and my favourite) studio is now the laughing stock of the industry.
There is no rush meter, it is not Sonic Rush HD. It continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Radrappy on September 25, 2010, 05:21:24 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?

Yeah, I wouldn't get on Ruby's case about this.  There's a pretty good chance he has absolutely no pull whatsoever on the actual development.  Isn't he just community manager?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 25, 2010, 06:55:52 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
AAUK is one guy... a bit of a knob and a Sonic fanboy. That isnt much of an indication of anything.

Yes it is. And will be as long as he represents the company.

Quote
A very good one plenty of things get lost in translation when the company mainly Japanese speaking. This is exactly what happened with the Yakuza 3 content.

Once again, what kind of excuse is that? A multinational company should and must be more professional than this. This argument is laughable at best.  

Quote
So use it... It is still optional.

Seriously, I would appreciate you stopped insulting my intelligence. You have to use the homing attack if you want to take advantage of the whole game. Fact. And by that I don't specifically mean "use the homing attack" but rather explore the levels.

Quote
But I don't need to I don't see any problem with using the homing attack when needs be... So there is a couple of sections where you might need to use it. SO what? In Sonic 2 there is a couple of sections where you NEED to spin dash which you couldnt do in Sonic 1. What is even the big deal with it?

The main issue with homing attack is making normal enemies and the boss battles too easy... Which IS optional.

Do YOU even know why it is such a big problem anymore? Or has it become some buzz word for why this game sucks?

Where have you been for the last 100 pages? There won't be a couple of sections. From the look of things, at least one of the routes in each level is bound to require the homing attack to be used.

Not only does the homing attack make the game easier (as you said), but it also stupidifies every concept of platforming there could be in a 2D Sonic game. There barely is a notion of precise jumping in this game. You press the button twice and there you are, going at full speed, no effort required. Worse than that, the spin dash is useless since the homing attack will give you a speed boost (if speed boosters weren't enough). Can you even get speed from using the spin dash? I mean, if you roll, you lose speed. In Sonic 2, the spin dash made some things easier, it's true, but it didn't break gameplay to the point of being mindless and automated. That is what is wrong with the homing attack. The homing attack only makes sense in a 3D game. Sonic is a fast character and precise jumping with a fast character in a three dimensional space is hard. Even in a slower game like Mario performing a precise jump can be tricky. So, do you have any decent argument as to why the homing attack is any good to a 2D game? Other than being OPTIONAL... Sigh...

Quote
You don't know the first thing about developing videogames.

Yes I do. Any software project starts with brainstorming, video games are no different. If stupid ideas make past brainstorming, the end result will be bad. The problem isn't physics or level design. The problem is awful direction. There isn't much going back when the project starts having actual shape. It's not a matter of "they could do it but they don't care", it's a matter of "he doesn't know what he's doing".

Quote
There is no rush meter, it is not Sonic Rush HD. It continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4.

There are speed boosters everywhere, rolling makes Sonic lose speed and there's the homing attack. There's more to Sonic Rush in Sonic 4 than the original games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 25, 2010, 07:08:26 pm
Quote from: "Radrappy"
Yeah, I wouldn't get on Ruby's case about this.
Ruby is an incredibly sweet guy, too, so he doesn't deserve to get any hate at all. Anything he does, he does with a good heart.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 25, 2010, 07:12:31 pm
I am not hating anyone here. It was what he said and what he said is not true. I don't doubt his good intentions however. But I'm sick of false promises and PR disasters from the company as a whole.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on September 25, 2010, 08:39:58 pm
@Sharky: About the homing attack, there are parts where it isn't actually optional. Well, maybe it is optional, the option is use the homing attack or get hit. Haha.
Here's a good example, Sonic hits a spring, goes directly into a place with bubbles. I wouldn't call the homing attack optional with situations like this one, gotta use the homing attack if the player doesn't want to get hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NvkX6Z9tg#t=0m39s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NvkX6Z9tg#t=0m39s)

I'm not really against the homing attack itself (even if I don't like it), but I'm against these situations where it's forced.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 25, 2010, 08:54:37 pm
Getting hit is the second option. Its still optional. ^.^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 25, 2010, 09:17:31 pm
What's the problem with being forced? Supposing it plays good, what's the problem of it being there?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 25, 2010, 10:04:02 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Yes it is. And will be as long as he represents the company.
I'm sorry but one PR guy you don't like doesn't ruin the company or this game or have any impact on anything.

Quote
Once again, what kind of excuse is that? A multinational company should and must be more professional than this. This argument is laughable at best.
Maybe it is a bad excuse but it still happens... All I'm saying is that I doubt there was any intentional lying as you keep suggesting.

Quote
Seriously, I would appreciate you stopped insulting my intelligence. You have to use the homing attack if you want to take advantage of the whole game. Fact. And by that I don't specifically mean "use the homing attack" but rather explore the levels.
So use it where you have too? Whats the big deal here... So at some points you have to chain hit some enemies to explore a new area. So do it and then stop using the homing attack everywhere else and I don't see what the problem is...

Quote
Where have you been for the last 100 pages? There won't be a couple of sections. From the look of things, at least one of the routes in each level is bound to require the homing attack to be used.
So use other routes... I cannot for the life of me understand this retarded 'I'm so anti homing attack all of a sudden I won't even use it on the odd occasion that it simply acts as a way to find a new path.'

Shits retarded bro.


Quote
Not only does the homing attack make the game easier (as you said), but it also stupidifies every concept of platforming there could be in a 2D Sonic game. There barely is a notion of precise jumping in this game. You press the button twice and there you are, going at full speed, no effort required. Worse than that, the spin dash is useless since the homing attack will give you a speed boost (if speed boosters weren't enough). Can you even get speed from using the spin dash? I mean, if you roll, you lose speed. In Sonic 2, the spin dash made some things easier, it's true, but it didn't break gameplay to the point of being mindless and automated. That is what is wrong with the homing attack. The homing attack only makes sense in a 3D game. Sonic is a fast character and precise jumping with a fast character in a three dimensional space is hard. Even in a slower game like Mario performing a precise jump can be tricky. So, do you have any decent argument as to why the homing attack is any good to a 2D game? Other than being OPTIONAL... Sigh...
So don't use the homing attack for any of THIS stuff and suddenly, problem solved...

Quote
Yes I do. Any software project starts with brainstorming, video games are no different. If stupid ideas make past brainstorming, the end result will be bad. The problem isn't physics or level design. The problem is awful direction. There isn't much going back when the project starts having actual shape. It's not a matter of "they could do it but they don't care", it's a matter of "he doesn't know what he's doing".
I'm not arguing that they didn't know the finer details of classic Sonic... To be honest I'm not offended by the Homing Attack at all. I realize I can choose when I feel like using it and when I don't and suddenly nothing is a problem.

Some things they can't go back and change at this point and I think they focused on changing the biggest issues at the time which was the bad levels... When that was fixed people moved onto something else to bitch about.


Quote
There are speed boosters everywhere, rolling makes Sonic lose speed and there's the homing attack. There's more to Sonic Rush in Sonic 4 than the original games.
Sonic 2 has a spin dash, that makes it more like Sonic Heroes then Sonic 1.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 26, 2010, 12:07:37 am
The spin dash was crazy when it first appeared in Sonic 2, I remember when I first used it and a part of me thought it was cool but another part of me thought it cheapened the skill involved in a momentum based spin dash introduced in the first game. When the elemental shields appeared, again I thought they were cool but I also thought they complicated the game a bit. Nowadays I accept both the spin dash and elemental shields as staples to the series.

So now when the homing attack appears I find it to be cool, but also see how it cheapens a bit of skill involved in aiming at enemies. So yeah, homing attack ain't no different from new moves introduced in previous games. It'll feel weird and new at first, but after a while it'll just become another part of what makes the game fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 26, 2010, 12:09:18 am
How much is it in MS points? Is $15 equivalent to 800 or 1200 points?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 26, 2010, 01:06:49 am
400 MS points = $5 US
800 MS points = $10 US
1200 MS points = $15 US
etc.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 26, 2010, 02:29:49 am
^Thanks!

I think I'll be giving this game a miss. It's not a bad price, but I hope the remaining Chapters are cheaper. Again, you could get Splosion Man, Scott Pilgrim and others for only 800 and they seem to be larger games.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 26, 2010, 03:30:24 am
You can get Sonic Adventure for 800 really..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 26, 2010, 05:07:34 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sonic 2 has a spin dash, that makes it more like Sonic Heroes then Sonic 1.

Sonic 2 is set in a two dimensional space and has momentum based gameplay. Sonic Heroes does not. Sonic 2 is likely the best Sonic game ever where as Sonic Heroes is a piece of crap. Seriously, Sharky. I'll ask again, stop insulting me with those remarks. I expect better from anyone here.

Quote from: "crackdude"
What's the problem with being forced? Supposing it plays good, what's the problem of it being there?

It's optional.  :roll:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 26, 2010, 08:17:34 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
How much is it in MS points? Is $15 equivalent to 800 or 1200 points?

When was the price announced? I thought they haven't revealed that yet.

eggit: did some innernette searching and found it! i'm not bothered, $15 is chicken feed to my mighty wallet! wahahahaha! Day one purchase.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 26, 2010, 09:17:49 am
Nintendo Power supposedly had the price.

Can't wait for
OH MA GAWD BOYCOTT SONIC 4 AND BUY SA!111
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on September 26, 2010, 09:24:01 am
$15 dollars? Wow....just wow. Do they really want this game to fail? Do they really want this game to get bad reviews? This game can be completed in 30 minutes.

As for the "lying" discussion....

There are dozens of interviews around saying that they would be fixing the physics to be more like Genesis games. That obviously didn't come true, because as it turns out, absolutely NO physics changes were made.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 26, 2010, 09:31:56 am
Quote from: "Orta"
Sonic 2 is set in a two dimensional space and has momentum based gameplay. Sonic Heroes does not. Sonic 2 is likely the best Sonic game ever where as Sonic Heroes is a piece of crap. Seriously, Sharky. I'll ask again, stop insulting me with those remarks. I expect better from anyone here.
And Sonic 4 continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4. Makes perfect sense to me.

I'm sorry you feel you're being insulted, I can only tell you it's only a videogame... Try and find the strength to get over it.

Quote from: "crackdude"
It's optional.  :roll:
But what is the problem with it? The only point you are forced to use it in any level is to take a new path which really DOESNT break anything at all in the gameplay.

The main and only problem homing attack caused was that it made it to easy to kill enemies and such... That... is optional.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 27, 2010, 05:53:46 am
So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 27, 2010, 07:07:57 am
Quote
1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.
2. The homing attack is a game breaker in 2D. It makes the game so easy that it's not fun.
3. The "don't use it" argument is a strawman argument. Saying that you don't have to use it if it makes things too easy is a huge sign that it shouldn't be there in the first place.
4. One of the best things about the "classic" games was how you only needed one button to do everything, and every function was not redundant. The homing attack, on the other hand, is indeed redundant.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 27, 2010, 07:30:33 am
Quote
Who are you quoting?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 27, 2010, 08:24:31 am
Quote
A quote from sonicstadium. Don't know if anyone agrees with it, but I found to be pretty strong. However not to come off as if I hate the game, because i've accepted episode 1 the way it is. I accepted episode 1 as a decent game, but still a failed attempt that's heading towards a brighter future. Basically what i'm trying to say is, if episode 2 doesn't fix the issues of episode 1, than they can stick those 15 dollars in their asses

See my previous post where I quoted my own post aimed at ken balough, of what I think would make the perfect episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 08:33:47 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 08:48:05 am
Quote
1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.
I would like this guy to come up with a better solution... I think Homing Attack is a good idea in 3D Sonic games. (Where it is also optional.)


Quote
2. The homing attack is a game breaker in 2D. It makes the game so easy that it's not fun.
So don't use it on anything BUT the 'enemy bridges' and suddenly it doesn't change anything...

Quote
3. The "don't use it" argument is a strawman argument.
Pot calling the kettle black on that strawman argument.

Has the entire world turned into some ADD retards that can't simply choose to do something or not to do something. Bringing back that argument about Halo. I enjoy Halo multiplayer but I can't fucking stand things like the Ghost so when I play with my friends we just choose NOT to use the ghost or the banchee... Because it makes killing to easy.

JUST like the Homing Attack...

Quote
Saying that you don't have to use it if it makes things too easy is a huge sign that it shouldn't be there in the first place.
Lets have a burning of all games that have an easy mode! MAKES IT TO EASY! Shouldn't be there in the first place! God forbid a Sonic game is aimed at children or people that would benifit from or even enjoy an easier option.


Quote
4. One of the best things about the "classic" games was how you only needed one button to do everything, and every function was not redundant. The homing attack, on the other hand, is indeed redundant.
[/quote]
Now THIS is a strawman argument.
You need to push Down and B to charge a spin dash from still for a start... Which means that no. Not everything is one button.

Secondly, Homing Attack IS just 1 button, pressed multiple times... (As if this is even a good argument.)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 27, 2010, 09:03:04 am
I was reading on Retro that the homing attack only occurs when enemies/objects are below Sonic, so there is no way to reach enemies/items from below using the attack. I think that's a rather smart move, in that it doesn't make the attack as easy as it has been labeled as. I do agree that the homing attack makes certain attacks easier, but it's nice to know that it isn't all-powerful.

In fact, I'm starting to see the homing attack as Sonic's special ability in the same way that Tails can fly and Knuckles can glide/climb. I thought the insta-shield was actually rather shit compared to Tails and Knuckles abilities. Once all three are available (assuming they appear in later episodes) I think the homing attack will be less of an issue. (IMHO!)

As for this:
Quote
1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.
In the context of 3D games, this statement is wrong wrong wrong. Homing attack was very necessary in the 3D games. With all the possible directions that a 3D space has, it would be stupid of Sonic Team not to have a method in which you could target enemies in a 3D space. Without the homing attack, players would have to stop dead in their tracks and line up each attack, making for some very tedious trial and error gameplay. There is nothing better to replace a homing attack with, unless you're replacing it with an even more precise homing attack. That, or they just made the enemies massive and stationary.

However, a broken homing attack (as seen in Heroes and '06) is something I'm against. Either have a working 3D homing attack, or don't release the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 27, 2010, 09:36:42 am
Maybe it would have just been better if the homing attack was an actual option. Imagine if this game was default without the homing attack, and homing attack could be switched on for people who like it.

I don't think anyone would complain and I hope that this is how episode 2 will be designed.

My theory with the homing attack, is that actually nobody enjoys mindlesly chaining on useless bubbles that only stand there as enemy bridges. Parts like those could be made more interesting just by replacing the bubbles with actual moving platforms and old school bubbles(those from sonic 3 that used to move and have spikes come out of them) to hinder you.

I think people enjoy the random use on random enemies of the homing attack. I wish this is how they had aproached the game but sonicteam always seems to mess up some how.

This is why I say episode 1 is kind of a failed attempt in some ways, it fails to please the fans it was aiming for and the fans that seem to enjoy modern games more, allready have games like sonic colors ds and sonic colors wii.

The fans of old have grown older and have become pickier. I remember myself when sonic and the secret rings was anounced for the wii, and I bought one immadiatly just so I could play that game. It was a decent game but if it was now I would have never even touched the game.

Sonicteam is attempting since a very long time to appease people that don't just lay down their money for everything that has sonic on the cover. It's hard for me to even imagine how easy they went with a title like sonic 4(episode 1), just crazy that staff at sega didn't think "sonic 4 is a game that should exist of so much win, that we'll put all our energie into it no matter how long it´s gonna take."

I think episode 1's release date is coming close and i'm allready looking forward to get this all over with and look forward the effort they're gonna put into episode 2... since the community managers are doing such a great job.

I'm still cautious however.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 27, 2010, 11:26:23 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?

Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.

Either way, you have just agreed it is not optional, and now changed your argument to "Well just do not use it!". Another poor argument. If it was truly optional or was made to make the game easier, then it should have been designed for an easier setting or something, like giving you less points or not letting you unlock the achievements. There are other complaints with it that have not been brought up, like the reticule or blur line, but when we get down to it, the facts are that these are just things that should not be problems at all. I am all for new stuff in the games, but not things that directly hurt what made the original trilogy great to begin with.

Hoping Episode II will be better is pretty sad, we should be wishing it could be anywhere near as good as this, but we are not, because we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

Also, you suck at Halo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 27, 2010, 11:36:30 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

I'm all for debating Sonic 4, but I'm getting tired of this shit. Please, tell me what else I know! Because before reading the above sentence, I had no idea that I believed this! Really, it's just stupid to write "we all know".
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 27, 2010, 11:48:02 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

I'm all for debating Sonic 4, but I'm getting tired of this shit. Please, tell me what else I know! Because before reading the above sentence, I had no idea that I believed this! Really, it's just stupid to write "we all know".

How about "All we know"? Well all we know is that UR A PECE OF SHAT.  :twisted:

But honestly, just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything... The large majority of people wanted better. In my whole argument are you only going to pick out and respond to me saying "All"? What? Assuming it was going to be way worse means you have less hope in Sonic Team than I do, to a degree... And that says a lot...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 27, 2010, 12:03:58 pm
I'm at work, so obviously I can't sit and read walls of text. I read what catches my eye, comment on it and then minimize the menu and do other stuff.

So now you've switched from "all" to "large majority"? Why not just speak for yourself and let others voice whatever their opinion is?

Quote
just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything...
Once again, you're speaking for me. Stop doing that. I never assumed Sonic 4 was going to be way worse. Did I even write that I thought that? For the record: I never expected a 2D Sonic game to even hit the consoles. Now that one is on it's way, I'm pleased with what I see. It looks unlike what I expected a Sonic 4 to look like, but I'm not against what has turned out to look like. It looks fun and I look forward to playing it. If something about it ticks me off, I'll gladly point it out in an article here or on my own blog in hopes that it helps shape upcoming episodes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 12:09:04 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.

Either way, you have just agreed it is not optional, and now changed your argument to "Well just do not use it!". Another poor argument. If it was truly optional or was made to make the game easier, then it should have been designed for an easier setting or something, like giving you less points or not letting you unlock the achievements. There are other complaints with it that have not been brought up, like the reticule or blur line, but when we get down to it, the facts are that these are just things that should not be problems at all. I am all for new stuff in the games, but not things that directly hurt what made the original trilogy great to begin with.

Hoping Episode II will be better is pretty sad, we should be wishing it could be anywhere near as good as this, but we are not, because we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

Also, you suck at Halo.


Ok so now we are comparing the option to use homing attack to fat people over eating?... Give me a fucking break.

Fat people over eat because they have an addictive personality, they use it for comfort or simply have no self control.

How does this in anyway relate to the Sonic 4 situation? My Christ...

Are you suggesting given the option to use the homing attack is too much of a temptation for you that you actually can't stop yourself from using it? It's so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, you suck at Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 27, 2010, 02:09:08 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm at work, so obviously I can't sit and read walls of text. I read what catches my eye, comment on it and then minimize the menu and do other stuff.

So now you've switched from "all" to "large majority"? Why not just speak for yourself and let others voice whatever their opinion is?

Quote
just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything...
Once again, you're speaking for me. Stop doing that. I never assumed Sonic 4 was going to be way worse. Did I even write that I thought that? For the record: I never expected a 2D Sonic game to even hit the consoles. Now that one is on it's way, I'm pleased with what I see. It looks unlike what I expected a Sonic 4 to look like, but I'm not against what has turned out to look like. It looks fun and I look forward to playing it. If something about it ticks me off, I'll gladly point it out in an article here or on my own blog in hopes that it helps shape upcoming episodes.

I am not going to argue the point when you said it looked "Much better" than you expected a few times in the past. You just changed it to "Different" now. The fact is you rather have "AMAZING" instead of "Looks fun". Why even go at me when Sharky does not even understand the word "Optional"?

Quote from: "Sharky"
Ok so now we are comparing the option to use homing attack to fat people over eating?... Give me a fucking break.

Fat people over eat because they have an addictive personality, they use it for comfort or simply have no self control.

No, I said fat people as in fat people in general. I never mentioned overeating or any kind of compulsive behaviors. It is also possible to be overweight and not have a problem.

My point (which you completely missed) is that just because the food exists does not mean you need to eat it. It is possible to live long periods of time without it, however our bodies are designed with needing food in mind so it is stupid to avoid it when it only makes our lives easier. I would appreciate you not spazing out next time and try to take time in deciphering my posts.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Are you suggesting given the option to use the homing attack is too much of a temptation for you that you actually can't stop yourself from using it? It's so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised.

...You are completely missing everyone's*** point still. The game is designed around the concept meaning that simply removing it lets you not explore certain sections and in a few cases makes some scenes potentially impossible. Having it in makes everything far too simple and makes many other abilities of no use at all, like the spindash actually making you slower even though you have to stop, balance and then charge it up for a second or two... Heck it even makes basic momentum pointless. It simply breaks the game given these examples, there is just no argument against it other than what me and Barry pointed out in the past, which makes Sonic's ability more apparent next to Knuckles and Tails' powers. Not really any kind of big deal.

You brought up the point with the Ghosts and Banshees in Halo. They are optional, but the games are designed with this in mind. In many cases when you can use them they will actually work against you, such as when you are in small areas or if your enemies have projectiles, many grenades or bigger vehicles. These in no way break the game, which is why I said you suck at the games. Even still, the games are designed with and without them in mind. It is simply better design overall.

My concept on a way to fix the homing attack in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was if the blue shield gave him that ability. Instantly this changes everything and gives both sides of the argument exactly what they want. It is optional. It does not detract from the game. It actually adds to the exploration (you could back-track to find more sections). It keeps Sonic interesting compared to the obvious inclusions of Knuckles and Tails in the future. It makes it easier, but if you overdo anything you lose it right away, and many many other advantages. Look how easy it is to fix this concept. That is really, really sad.




*** Sorry if I mislead anyone into thinking everyone in the entire world had the same view.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 02:45:03 pm
No dude it is YOU missing the point... Again and again.

As I've said about 5 times now... You can USE the homing attack for the bridges to all areas and still NOT use it on bosses, enemies and other things.

Why is this extremely simple idea so hard to grasp for some of you? Use it when you need to use it... Don't when you don't.

SO no it isnt optional if you are going to make a big fuss about NEEDING to take the path that uses the homing attack enemy bridge but those bridges were never a bloody issue anyway.

YOUR issue is how easy the homing attack makes killing normal enemies and bosses among other things. In THOSE cases simply DONT use it.

Complex shit I know but try to understand.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 27, 2010, 02:59:39 pm
As a shield huh.. Like the golden shield in sonic 3d?

I like that idea, but i'd want them to appear real scarce. Though that wouldn't really matter if the stages were really challenging. Like you said in an earlier post, with the homing attack now you could finish whole stages just by tapping the jump button rapidly. Who cares if you get hit, you'll get rings on the way again and again while you just tap the jump button.

If it was a shield(meaning you'd lose it once you get hit), you would be encouraged not to play like an idiot and try hard to keep it... Kinda like how all the other shields worked in sonic3andknuckles.

But tbh, i'd rather not have the move at all, but if they insist, this or an option to switch it on/off would be great choices from them.

It's like when everyone complained about sonic unleashed endless spam of boosting. People used to defend that shit to death months ago. Now sonic colors has been anounced, everyone is like,  dumbing down the boost and filling up your gauge by capsules instead of rings to make it less spammable is a great decision from sega.

I can allready see the same people who defend the homing attack with all their energie find the decision of a homing attack shield to be great if sonicteam ever decided to do that, same with the on/off option thing.

Edit: just for clearance, the last part wasn't aimed at you sharky(homing attack, boost spam defending part) but to the general people I talk with around the sega boards.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 27, 2010, 03:16:17 pm
Wow, Sharky finally gets it. Level design around a move doesn't make that move optional. Just wow.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 27, 2010, 03:32:59 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.
 

Ha Ha! No.

As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

Frankly, I'm sick of this "momentum" bullshit people keep bringing up in arguments. There hasn't been true momentum-based gameplay in this series since the spindash was introduced. Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 27, 2010, 03:33:42 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?


You shouldn't take everything I say so seriously, my was exaggurating for effect. Obviously it's not the same as Halo's shooting, but there is a bit of truth in it, seeing as the homing attack is the primary form of attack in the Sonic game. It's technically optional, but the game is built around it, just like Halo is built around shooting.

In any event, not long until it's out now, meaning we can play the demo and give it a shot if we are so inclined.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 27, 2010, 03:38:28 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.

Proper Sonic gameplay is speed as a reward for being good at the game. There you go.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 03:52:48 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Wow, Sharky finally gets it. Level design around a move doesn't make that move optional. Just wow.

But this is only the case if you are going to be impossible... As some of you are. The game IS possible to complete with out homing attack. (According to Ruby.) So yes it IS optional... Simply take OTHER Paths.

But if you are going to be awkward about it and insist that even though you don't want to use homing attack you still want to take homing attack paths then I'm saying simply use it for that, tiny insignificant bit and then continue to ignore it and it STILL wont break the game in the slightest.


Also:
(http://http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1395/image4vl.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 27, 2010, 04:04:18 pm
I never said you couldn't beat the game without the homing attack. What I said was I could not take advantage of the whole game without it. The levels contain elements and sections that require it. Therefore, the move is not optional as you insist so much. I wouldn't have much of a problem with it if the levels weren't designed around it, but they are. I have also explained why the homing attack was created and why it does not make sense in a 2D game. I think there is a video of Iizuka himself saying why they introduced the homing attack in Sonic Adventure. Finally, the homing attack would be a nice addition as an unlockable move as I've pointed before, never as a core gameplay element.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 04:25:13 pm
If you can complete the game with out using it... it is opinion, just as taking the path that requires you to use it is optional. There are other paths.

But to be honest, why does it even matter... This is not part of the game that breaks or ruins Sonic 4 for anyone. The ONLY problem with Homing Attack that would effect Sonic 4 is making bosses and such to easy. Simply don't use the move and it's a non-issue.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 27, 2010, 04:29:17 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
YOUR issue is how easy the homing attack makes killing normal enemies and bosses among other things. In THOSE cases simply DONT use it.

Dude, what the fuck? Stop making up shit. I never mentioned any of these.

All of us have pointed out that we do not hate it, but would prefer it as an extra thing, not a basic game design.

You are impossible and just are not even trying to even comprehend what any of us are trying to get the point around to you. You are taking it far too seriously and need to grow up, stop treating everyone else like a baby and take a look in the mirror. I am not going to respond to another one of your posts on this until you at least try to see our points...

Quote from: "Shigs"
As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

Not mindlessly mashing, no, but timing the jumps and homing attacks just right makes potentially everything beatable in this setting. If you can get to your full speed and are able to hit everything (even stuff you can bounce or swing from) then whats stopping you from not being able to just do this the whole time without pressing the dpad - Outside of turning around, at least.

Quote from: "Shigs"
I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

...I would not be making my opinion so loud if I have not seen the majority of the game.

Quote from: "Shigs"
Frankly, I'm sick of this "momentum" bullshit people keep bringing up in arguments. There hasn't been true momentum-based gameplay in this series since the spindash was introduced. Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.

You lost me here. The spindash is part of the momentum, everything from the rolling and the bouncing from one enemy to the next taking you higher and higher were all part of the original games that are really not available in the majority of the games (outside of the classics) that added to the momentum and the general experiences. Games like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 thrived on creative gameplay and level design which is why people still gave a shit about the series.

Also, what Orta said about the momentum being the true reward. Part of the reason people actually kind of liked Sonic and the Secret Rings was because of this... But only to a much much smaller extent.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 27, 2010, 05:41:20 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Dude, what the fuck? Stop making up shit. I never mentioned any of these.

All of us have pointed out that we do not hate it, but would prefer it as an extra thing, not a basic game design.
There you go again putting words in other peoples mouths, pretty childish trait.

People here HAVE complained about it making the game 'too easy' and such.

Quote
You are impossible and just are not even trying to even comprehend what any of us are trying to get the point around to you. You are taking it far too seriously and need to grow up, stop treating everyone else like a baby and take a look in the mirror. I am not going to respond to another one of your posts on this until you at least try to see our points...

'You are being childish, now I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts until you see it my way!'

I know what point you are trying to make. I never once said it wouldn't be a better idea to have some kind of switch to turn the homing attack on and off in the menu... (If only because it would stop people like you complaining.)

My point is that optional means that you are at no point FORCED to use the homing attack... As in you can do the task at had and choose to use it or not. Which according to Ruby is 100% possible.

So no it is not optional in the sense that it can be turned on and off, but it is optional in the sense you can complete the game and never use it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on September 27, 2010, 05:51:50 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I know what point you are trying to make. I never once said it wouldn't be a better idea to have some kind of switch to turn the homing attack on and off in the menu... (If only because it would stop people like you complaining.)

My point is that optional means that you are at no point FORCED to use the homing attack... As in you can do the task at had and choose to use it or not. Which according to Ruby is 100% possible.

So no it is not optional in the sense that it can be turned on and off, but it is optional in the sense you can complete the game and never use it.
Apparently there's a part in the Splash Hill leaked/E3 build where the Homing Attack wasn't optional, a Bubble's bridge before the ending of an act with a bottomless pit below (don't remember exactly which act it was).
Now it depends if they changed that part of the stage, or if it's possible to bounce from Bubble to Bubble. But if it isn't possible to bounce from Bubble to Bubble (due to bad physics maybe?) or if there's no alternate path, then the homing attack isn't 100% optional.
There's also parts where it could be said that it's optional, but it's a part where the only choice is use the homing attack or get hit. Those parts are when a spring sends Sonic directly to a Bubble's bridge, or when Sonic rolls up a ramp, uncurls, and is sent directly to a Bubble's bridge. ._.

Well, I guess the only thing that can be done now is wait for release (I won't buy it if it costs $15/15€ though, not worth it).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 27, 2010, 07:16:40 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"


Quote from: "Shigs"
As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

Not mindlessly mashing, no, but timing the jumps and homing attacks just right makes potentially everything beatable in this setting. If you can get to your full speed and are able to hit everything (even stuff you can bounce or swing from) then whats stopping you from not being able to just do this the whole time without pressing the dpad - Outside of turning around, at least.

No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"


Quote from: "Shigs"
I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

...I would not be making my opinion so loud if I have not seen the majority of the game.
 

Yea. Come back to me when you've actually had your hands on it buddy. Seeing and playing are two different things.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 27, 2010, 07:44:07 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

But... Sonic is forced forward at full speed when he does it... Countless people have confirmed this, as well as it always being like that so I never needed people to confirm it.

Quote from: "Shigs"
Yea. Come back to me when you've actually had your hands on it buddy. Seeing and playing are two different things.

I want to say "Fair enough", but my comments are always directed at WHAT is in the game, not how it works.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 27, 2010, 11:43:11 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Shigs"
No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

But... Sonic is forced forward at full speed when he does it... Countless people have confirmed this, as well as it always being like that so I never needed people to confirm it.

Okay, lets say for arguments sake your right. How is this any different from the dumb "hold right to win" argument? You would be jumping and boosting right up until you got to a point where you could not anymore. There are a lot of high walls in Splash Hill where you'd have to turn around.

Also, what about levels like Lost labyrinth or Casino Street where you have rotating/disappearing platforms. Or balancing on giant boulders or rotating giant gears? The use of Dynamite? How the hell would your "jump button only" method work then?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 28, 2010, 06:24:26 am
Sonic 4, priced and dated.

According to IGN (http://http://uk.xboxlive.ign.com/articles/112/1123849p1.html)

* Apple’s iDevices will be the first to get the game on Oct. 7, though no price was confirmed at this time.

* Next up, the Wii will receive the game on Oct. 11 for 1500 Nintendo fake money, translating to $15/£10 / €13/ AU$20.

* PSN receives the game on Oct. 12 for $14.99 / £9.99 / €12.99 / AU$19.95

* Xbox Live Arcade will see minecart goodness for 1200 monopoly dollar points on Oct. 13
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 07:31:40 am
Yeah, I'm afraid that $15 cannot be justified to me for this four zone "episode" of a game. :P I'll give it a pass for now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 07:48:09 am
I'll pass too.




...




FUCKIN' NOT! Buying the iPhone on the 7th, beating it by the 13th to DL the 360 version. w00t!

In other good news, TSSZ has been hacked! LOL they deserve it.
http://www.tssznews.com/ (http://www.tssznews.com/)
(http://http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7048/picture2ww.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 28, 2010, 08:08:05 am
£10 sounds very reasonable to me. Will buy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 28, 2010, 08:27:45 am
1200 points is too much. 800 wouldn't be enough. 1000 feels about right given the episodic nature of the game but I suppose pricing isn't exactly set by Sega (in terms of defining an actual value, like 582 points for example). If I ever get this I'll wait for the eventual retail release. In the meanwhile I'll find some other means to play and laugh at it.

Also, lol TSSZ. It hasn't been fixed yet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 08:44:10 am
The following comment is based on what I read at TSS and Retro: I think people need to resign themselves to the fact that any SEGA title hitting PSN/XBLA that is new will be $15 and any title that is a Dreamcast or 3D Arcade rerelease will be $10. Anything else, mostly Genesis titles and DLC, will be $3-$7. That seems to be the norm. I'm not going to bitch at SEGA for doing what they have been doing for a good couple of years already. In six months time, Sonic 4 could be bumped down to $10 for a sale, but in the meantime I'm completely fine with the price. However if the iPhone version is more then $10, I'll complain. As for the Wii version, while I don't have a Wii, I think it is overpriced in the sense that it isn't in HD yet is the same price as the HD consoles.

If there is a digital release SEGA title that I do have a price beef with, it would be Virtual-On OT which is still selling for the release price of $15. That sucker should be bumped down to $10 to join OutRun Online and After Burner Climax.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on September 28, 2010, 08:45:53 am
I think 14.99 is a bit steep for episodic, but I'm happy to see that it's coming out in 2 weeks.  I thought that it wouldn't be out until sometime in November/December.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on September 28, 2010, 09:18:37 am
1500 Wii points, that means 15€, that means $20 for us Europeans...
No, just no. I'll pass this one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 09:32:07 am
Quote from: "ezodagrom"
1500 Wii points, that means 15€, that means $20 for us Europeans...
No, just no. I'll pass this one.

Wii's point system sucks, but does this help? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Points ... 046&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Points-Card-2000-Wii/dp/B001TOQ8KC/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285677046&sr=8-1)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 28, 2010, 09:36:56 am
As i've said in the comments of the headline.

I was going to buy the game, showing my support for a better episode 2, if it were 10 dollars.(Kinda sure it waas going to be)

15 however feels like an insult to me as a fan. I’m not retard to fall for this one. Not buying
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on September 28, 2010, 09:43:01 am
Wii stuff has always been quite expensive, look at how much *roms* cost. It's not surprising it costs so much.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 09:52:52 am
Quote from: "Orta"
1200 points is too much. 800 wouldn't be enough.
No, 400 MS points would have been the right price. 800 points would have been acceptable, though not desirable.

1200 points is a total rip-off.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 09:56:19 am
Quote
I’m not retard to fall for this one.


Made me laugh ;)

Quote
No, 400 MS points would have been the right price.

$5? Really? lol, do you want SEGA to make a profit? C'mon now, $5 is just plain silly. This isn't some rerelease of a Genesis game, it's a newly developed game. SEGA would be retard to release Sonic 4 for $5 an episode.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 28, 2010, 10:02:54 am
Yeah sorry, but a lot of us have been supporting the franchise from day one and have even bought the crappier games (sonic 06, sonic riders).

The way sonicteam treats fans as if they know theyre gonna buy everything is an insult, sorry.

Look at the man behind megaman, you don't see him sell a game with just 4 bosses to pick out of, for 15 bucks.

Do whatever you want, but i've got principles. I never even bought xbla points before and if someone would give me points for free, no way i'd pick sonic 4 episode 1 of 15 dollars over 2 greater games I could get for 10 each.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 10:09:57 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote
I’m not retard to fall for this one.


Made me laugh ;)

Quote
No, 400 MS points would have been the right price.

$5? Really? lol, do you want SEGA to make a profit? C'mon now, $5 is just plain silly. This isn't some rerelease of a Genesis game, it's a newly developed game. SEGA would be retard to release Sonic 4 for $5 an episode.
First of all, the fact that you've resorted to mocking CrazyTails' English skills sickens me. =/

Secondly, this isn't some big budget game we're talking about here. It's not even a complete game; instead, it's one tiny "episode" with a mere four zones. Sorry, but the low budget graphics, the uninspired music, the low content, and the odd physics do not scream "selling at a loss" for $5 here. Considering the number of people who are interested interested in the title, $5 would be an impulse buy for a LOT of people. At $15, they've whittled their audience down to the most devoted Sonic fans, such as yourself. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 10:13:16 am
Errrrggghhhhhhhmmmmm.... Mega Man 9&10 are awful examples. I'd take Mademan's Splosion Man comparison over Mega Man. To me, Mega Man 9&10 felt like a lame attempt at catering to the 8-bit Hot Topic crowd (ooh, pixels! I love the NES!). They were enjoyable enough, but they just felt like some fan hacked an NES rom. Sonic 4, by comparison was built from the ground up. Now what that final structure resembles is debatable (some love it, some like it, some hate it), but it's a fact that Sonic 4 had much more time and money spent on visuals than Mega Man 9&10 did.

Splosion Man, as Mademan throws about, makes much more sense. It's a fully 3D platformer with many more levels than Sonic 4 that costs $5 less. Not to mention Splosion Man was developed by a company much smaller than Sonic Team, yet Twisted Pixel Games still gave the game a lower price than it deserved. I'd have gladly paid $15 for Splosion Man. Interestingly enough, Twisted Pixel's next game Comic Jumper, releases next week for $15.

edit: oh no! I sickened fluffy! whatever dude.

As for the game only selling to the most devoted of fans, we'll have to wait and see what the sales figures say. As I've said again and again, $15 has been the going rate for every new premium title on XBLA (and possibly PSN, I don't follow their prices though). LIMBO was $15 and yet it became the top selling game of the Summer of Arcade. Comic Jumper, the follow-up to Splosion Man, is $15. SEGA would be foolish to break the pricing line and release a new title for $5. Once they do that, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon people will cry foul whenever a SEGA title releases for more than $5. Example: Crazy Taxi releases in October and fans cry foul for it being $5 more than Sonic 4. SEGA games are much better than a discount bin price, save that for the indie games and Genesis releases.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 10:20:47 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
it's a fact that Sonic 4 had much more time and money spent on visuals than Mega Man 9&10 did.
I absolutely would not accept that as "fact" unless you had undeniable proof of it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 10:26:22 am
Quote from: "Shigs"
Okay, lets say for arguments sake your right.

Kind of making us both look like asses with comments like this. I have never really outright said the game is shit or that people should not buy it, if that is what you are assuming. I do not know what the big deal is. I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

Quote from: "Shigs"
How is this any different from the dumb "hold right to win" argument? You would be jumping and boosting right up until you got to a point where you could not anymore. There are a lot of high walls in Splash Hill where you'd have to turn around.

It is different because the "Hold right to win" argument is flawed in that most classic Sonic levels need you to turn around or roll to build momentum or break through some sections, I pointed out turning around in this concept and the homing attack keeps you in a ball too, so other than falling off into a bottomless pit there should never be issues. The homing attack gives you a full burst of speed and can be "Launched" at different heights, making any kind of platform easily traversable.

As for something like the torches and dynamite - Which I have openly said I believe is the best addition to the game. I do not know how these work, but as long as the game does not use any more buttons (Iizuka lies a lot, but he did say the game only needs one button) I do not see how this would be a problem either.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote
No, 400 MS points would have been the right price.

$5? Really? lol, do you want SEGA to make a profit? C'mon now, $5 is just plain silly. This isn't some rerelease of a Genesis game, it's a newly developed game. SEGA would be retard to release Sonic 4 for $5 an episode.

I know for a fact the game was originally designed with the $5 price point in mind, which is why things like the graphics look... Like they do.

It is kind of silly to argue this. It is easily going to be one of the best selling downloadable games of the year, I do not know why you would be worried about them making a profit when much larger games by much much much smaller and unknown devs with an unknown IP... Like 'Splosion Man can make a profit at $10.

$15 is not a big deal at the end of the day, no, but lets just assume this will be 3 episodes. That adds up to $45, as compared to a $30 overall cost if the game was $10. What if there are 5 episodes? More? DLC?

I am personally not even going to attempt to get this game. When the obvious retail release of it hits for a better value I will probably consider it. I expect the next few episodes to be better, but just thinking it 'might' be a 'little' better is far too much hope to put in a Sonic Team product anymore.

EDIT: Barry pointed out my 'Splosion Man thing just as I posted this, imma kill myself
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 10:26:54 am
Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's. Compare this:
[youtube:3kw3hjqd]Lsqcsz2sSH4[/youtube:3kw3hjqd]

To this:
[youtube:3kw3hjqd]hRNE1YUe6y8[/youtube:3kw3hjqd]

Quote
I know for a fact the game was originally designed with the $5 price point in mind, which is why things like the graphics look... Like they do.

If you're going by the partnernet leak, I really can't say that that was a factual piece of info. For all we know, that 400 was a placeholder. I have no clue how the system works for filling in XBLA Marketplace info, but for all we know some intern selected the first option from a drop down tab. I'd assume prices are discussed at a higher level, between execs and accounting. By this logic, SA was originally designed to be free:
(http://http://thevirtualunderground.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/500x_sonic_adventure_xbla.jpg)

If either you or some other SEGA blog writer gets a chance to lop some Q's at SEGA (specifically Ruby or Ken), I'd love to see this receive a proper answer rather than assumptions based on an old screenshot.

As for Splosion Man: LAWL at us agreeing on something  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 10:32:19 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's.
But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 10:40:13 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's.
But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.

Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 10:50:44 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
If you're going by the partnernet leak

I am not.

Quote
But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.

Almost all of the art in Mega Man 9 (not sure about 10) was done by one guy. Unless he was overpayed and everyone who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog 4's art was underpayed...

However, Mega Man 9 features more styles of art than Sonic the Hedgehog 4's, which the majority is almost entirely inspired if not just ripped off of earlier titles. Mega Man 9 had a lot of repeated art too, but mostly just for the enemies.

I think you are both right and wrong at the same time, neat!

I think the more fair comparison would be something like Mega Man Zero games though. Mega Man 9 specifically was designed to look retro, so it is not really the same kind of output as Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 10:52:06 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.
That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 10:54:46 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.
That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation. :P

Yeah, he also did not mention how he was seeing that shark and whale! They could have been out of view, or he could have been making them up all together.

That is the dirtiest thing Barry ever did... Making up sharks...  :cry:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 11:05:09 am
Quote
That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation. :P

Sanus may be a motherfucker, but he knows his shit. I had no clue that MM9's art was all done by one guy. Yeah, so unless Capcom paid one guy über bucks and SEGA paid a team of artists peanuts, that fact alone makes it pretty apparent (bordering on factual!) that MM9 had a smaller graphical budget than Sonic 4.

PS Sanus, how come we never play nightcrawlers anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 11:18:28 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Yeah, he also did not mention how he was seeing that shark and whale! They could have been out of view, or he could have been making them up all together.
Let me assure you that sometimes, looks can be deceiving.

You could look at a cubic foot of iron and a cubic foot of lead and tell me that they weigh the same just from appearance, but you would be wrong.

Quote
Sanus may be a motherfucker, but he knows his shit. I had no clue that MM9's art was all done by one guy.
Actually, I'd be more surprised to find out that Sonic 4 had multiple graphical artists. That would mean that SEGA spent money on multiple people who had hardly a bit of talent between them. In that case, it might seem reasonable that better talent = better pay.

So no, it's still not a fact until you have proof. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 11:34:53 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
PS Sanus, how come we never play nightcrawlers anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk)

Nightcrawlers is THE best drunk game to play for sure, but it scares the shit out of my cat.

However, my cat being scared is an option for him, it is not my fault I am playing nightcrawlers and that is a fucking weird thing to do to begin with.  8-)

Quote
Actually, I'd be more surprised to find out that Sonic 4 had multiple graphical artists. That would mean that SEGA spent money on multiple people who had hardly a bit of talent between them. In that case, it might seem reasonable that better talent = better pay.

Outside of the garden and cement themed levels, I would say Mega Man 9 has pretty much the same kind of hard work being put into it honestly. Both are trying a bit too hard to make both games look as close to the classics as possible, but in the case of Sonic Team, I think it would be a bigger challenge as they have nothing with the same kind of art direction to base it off of. With Mega Man 9 they could practically just copy and paste if they needed to.

I would wait to see what some of the sections in Episode II looks before bringing this up again really. For all we know, Episode II could look way worse.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 28, 2010, 01:53:03 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

Can you stop being such a bitch?

I'm really tired of your constant speaking for everyone, putting words into peoples mouths and saying that anyone that doesn't agree with you are 'freaking out'.

Give it a rest already, nobody was freaking out.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 02:13:54 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

Can you stop being such a bitch?

I'm really tired of your constant speaking for everyone, putting words into peoples mouths and saying that anyone that doesn't agree with you are 'freaking out'.

Give it a rest already, nobody was freaking out.

Comments like this look like "Freaking out" to basically everyone, like why call me a bitch?

You are the one getting upset that we are not agreeing with you... Read back to what has been said in the past 100 or so pages. I do not mention the actual quality of the game or anything like that, I am just talking about what is in the game and do not even give a shit if someone disagrees with me, but I make my opinion known. Just because you do not understand does not mean you need to spaz out and start calling me names or anything, come on!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 28, 2010, 02:37:19 pm
I'm calling you a bitch for talking crap about me, for no good reason in convocations with other people... Even worse when you're just making shit up...

Again I completely understand what you are saying, I simply don't agree with it. If you can finish Sonic 4 with out using the homing attack at all then it is optional in my opinion, as optional simply means possible to do the task with or without using this feature. The only parts of the level where it could be said is not optional doesn't at all compromise the fun or difficulty of the level... ie, Homing attack birdges.

Stop being so elitist, it doesn't suit you.

I don't need any life lessons from someone that actually bullied people on this forum and tried to ruin the forum when we had a server problem by editing people’s posts and further picking on members in the process.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 02:50:44 pm
I say we all step back, take a breather and remember we're losing our shit over a little blue hedgehog.  8-)

(http://http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/Megadrive/sonic13_32.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 28, 2010, 02:58:04 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

Quote from: "Shigs"
How is this any different from the dumb "hold right to win" argument? You would be jumping and boosting right up until you got to a point where you could not anymore. There are a lot of high walls in Splash Hill where you'd have to turn around.

It is different because the "Hold right to win" argument is flawed in that most classic Sonic levels need you to turn around or roll to build momentum or break through some sections, I pointed out turning around in this concept and the homing attack keeps you in a ball too, so other than falling off into a bottomless pit there should never be issues. The homing attack gives you a full burst of speed and can be "Launched" at different heights, making any kind of platform easily traversable.

As for something like the torches and dynamite - Which I have openly said I believe is the best addition to the game. I do not know how these work, but as long as the game does not use any more buttons (Iizuka lies a lot, but he did say the game only needs one button) I do not see how this would be a problem either.

You're not getting the point, You CANNOT go through this game just going "Jump, dash, jump, dash, jump, dash" It's physically impossible. There are lots of areas where you have to make more precise jumps and areas where you have to balance yourself. Just constantly pressing the jump button ain't gonna do it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 28, 2010, 02:58:51 pm
Where's the green eyes!? *modernfanrage :twisted:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 28, 2010, 03:07:27 pm
Nobody saw the Sonic holding flowers in a heart? :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 28, 2010, 03:18:34 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Nobody saw the Sonic holding flowers in a heart? :(

I did, that was nice of him.
And yeah, everyone needs to chill out a little here.

In any event, for 1200 points, I think I'll give this a miss. Barry pointed out that Comic Jumper will be out next week for the same price, I would rather spend my money on that. In fact I haven't got Scott Pilgrim yet either, and thats only 800.

I just don't think there's enough meat in Sonic 4 for my 1200 points, but then again, I probably wouldn't have bothered at 800 either.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 28, 2010, 03:43:24 pm
Sonic 4 is getting released on the Wii first. (Console)
:<
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 28, 2010, 03:44:18 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I'm calling you a bitch for talking crap about me, for no good reason in convocations with other people... Even worse when you're just making shit up...

I never really said anything mean about you here or made anything up. If you got the wrong impression with that or if I really did come off as more aggressive than I meant, I am sorry.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Again I completely understand what you are saying, I simply don't agree with it. If you can finish Sonic 4 with out using the homing attack at all then it is optional in my opinion, as optional simply means possible to do the task with or without using this feature. The only parts of the level where it could be said is not optional doesn't at all compromise the fun or difficulty of the level... ie, Homing attack birdges.

No, that is missing the point. If you can reach EVERY SINGLE SECTION of the game without the homing attack, then indeed it is optional, but anything else and it is not. Simply not using it is going against the grain just to be a 'hardcore gamer' or someshit. The game is specifically designed with it in mind and makes other techniques pointless. This is a big issue even when completely disregarding how it homes you in on the enemies, which is what you keep saying is my big complaint. It is not.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Stop being so elitist, it doesn't suit you.

I never said the game sucks or that anyone should not buy it... The only thing I openly said sucks about the game is the music, which we can all agree is pretty low quality and very short. Even then I said I thought some of it was good, just that I think it fits something like Wonderboy better than Sonic.

Quote from: "Sharky"
I don't need any life lessons from someone that actually bullied people on this forum and tried to ruin the forum when we had a server problem by editing people’s posts and further picking on members in the process.

People? I just made fun of Joe, and while I never actually PMed him to talk it over or anything (which I usually do with people, and probably should with Joe), he said really mean things about me and my country in general. Every single naughty thing edited into the forums was not by me either, but I am not trying to sound like a better person or anything with this. I understand that was a dick move, but I think looking back there was no real harm done (if there was, PM me on it!).

Either way, that is a really low blow. I was not really telling you how to improve yourself or anything either, just defending myself.

Quote from: "Shigs"
You're not getting the point, You CANNOT go through this game just going "Jump, dash, jump, dash, jump, dash" It's physically impossible. There are lots of areas where you have to make more precise jumps and areas where you have to balance yourself. Just constantly pressing the jump button ain't gonna do it!

Not looking at the screen and just blindly mashing is not really what I meant, I just think it is completely possible to beat the game without pressing left or right outside of turning around. If you can prove otherwise, please show me. I really am very interested in this, not really trying to fight about it if that is how it is coming out.

Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I just don't think there's enough meat in Sonic 4 for my 1200 points, but then again, I probably wouldn't have bothered at 800 either.

The past few months alone have been crazy awesome for XBLA games with a lot of content in them. That Lara Croft game that was the same price for instance looked better than Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 launch titles and was like 5 hours long with an extra 10+ hours of unlockables and also co-op that completely changes the game, this is just half an hour and single player.

Even with the backlash I expect this to sell bucketloads... It could easily be one of the best selling titles on the platforms. I wonder though if they might change the next episode to 800 points next time?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 28, 2010, 04:00:14 pm
You guys are all elitists. Happy? ^.^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 28, 2010, 09:35:14 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Nobody saw the Sonic holding flowers in a heart? :(
I did! That picture is awesome! ^___^

(http://http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5707/sonic02n.jpg)

[spoiler:ivsq78b0]OMG, Sonic obtained the Heavy Weather (http://http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081103024556/jjba/images/9/99/Heaveyweather.PNG) stand! =O[/spoiler:ivsq78b0]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 28, 2010, 09:43:36 pm
Aww, isn't he cute -.-


gay
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 28, 2010, 10:09:41 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Aww, isn't he cute -.-


gay
Yea....BACK WHEN HE DIDN'T SUCK!!

Kidding. :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on September 29, 2010, 06:24:59 am
This is over priced no doubt about it, £10 for 30 minutes of gameplay sucks- no matter how replayable it is.

I was expecting it to be about £7 as it's episodic.

Of course what difference does it make, I whine about the price of DLC and map packs but I still buy them, and I'm sure I'll buy this at launch.

I still think Sonic's run animation blows though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 29, 2010, 08:39:35 am
Positive preview here: http://www.totalvideogames.com/Sonic-th ... 15666.html (http://www.totalvideogames.com/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-4-Episode-1/preview-15666.html)

And ONM hinted that their full review will be a positive one:
Quote
We'll have a full review on the ONM site around the date of the game's release, so keep your eyes peeled to see if it's worth getting. From what we've played so far though, signs point to 'yes'.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 29, 2010, 09:24:42 am
Well, since you, Barry have given the more positive side of the story. I found this part in the article and thought i'll give my side of it.

Quote
As we mentioned earlier, the old-school Sonic gameplay has also been embellished with a chaining system that's been carried over from the likes of Sonic Unleashed and the upcoming Sonic Colours. Explained simply, the system pulls up an on-screen reticule that locks to nearby enemies and objects such as springs. Pressing A (X on PS3) subsequently launches Sonic directly onto the target, allowing him to chain together enemy kills and transitions into speed sections. It's a feature that makes the gameplay a lot smoother as well as faster and, as any Sonic fan knows, more speed = more fun.

When people think that way about sonic I don't know if I should trust/agree with their opinions. Thing is, sonic blazing through stages has always been fun to look at, but the most fun came from the challenging level design. Also the way how they're describing the homing attack, aka air dash, makes the spindash redundant in every way. Ow yeah I forgot, spinning is almost useless in sonic 4 since it doesnt make you faster going down slopes and slows you instantly when going up on slopes.

Other than that, i'm sure this game is gonna get good reviews. Stages like lost labrinth act 2 and casino street act 2 are stages I can allready see experiencing them will be epic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 09:55:30 am
Slowing down when rolling is such a fuckup of epic proportions, that was one of if not the biggest thing that made Sonic stand out from every other game at the time.

I am glad they are actually putting it in at all though. I was recently watching a Sonic Colors video and the player was really confused why he could not roll or do the spindash... Why is it not in there? Seems so obvious to everyone BUT Sonic Team...

Even the terrible version of Sonic Unleashed on Wii had some spinning, why not have it like that at the very least? Or how about he rolls instead of sliding on his back?

Actual hedgehogs do not spin anymore, news at eleven.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 29, 2010, 10:58:56 am
God, Sanus you are getting kind of annoying with all your Sonic hate dude.. Calm down for a few posts/comments.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 29, 2010, 11:00:21 am
JSRF simplified graffiti painting, but it was still a great game. :-/

oh, ps - I think I'll be doing an iPhone review of the game as I have a four day weekend. More than enough time to finish the game and give it a rating  :afroman:

Also, why is it taking the SEGA Blog so long with a press release?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 11:08:06 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
God, Sanus you are getting kind of annoying with all your Sonic hate dude.. Calm down for a few posts/comments.

That is not Sonic hate, if anything it is frustration over how much I still like the series. It is me pointing out Sonic Team is retarded and that they are good at ruining even the most basic of concepts.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 29, 2010, 11:24:45 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
God, Sanus you are getting kind of annoying with all your Sonic hate dude.. Calm down for a few posts/comments.

If people can post positive posts I do not see why we cannot have negative reaction either, this is a discussion after all.

Unless you want me to go all China on ya asses. Which is fine if you let me, first with video technology :twisted:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 29, 2010, 11:40:04 am
I'm not saying we can't criticize. It's just that good grief man! lol
I don't understand what is wrong with the spindash. It slows you down? Is there any footage of it being lousy?

Currently I dislike the price and some physics nuances that seem a bit off.
As you know I was in the belief that those would be perfected by now, but from the vids there's something offputting. Might feel different while playing though.

Still, even with some possible negatives, there's a lot of positive things in this game that make me want to buy it and have fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 29, 2010, 11:46:12 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
JSRF simplified graffiti painting, but it was still a great game. :-/

It was a great game indeed, but honestly, the old way was still better don't you think?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 29, 2010, 12:02:42 pm
I don't want to get too into JSRF vs. JSR mechanics, but I thought that both graffiti methods were appropriate for both games. A good number of JSRF's tags were off the ground, meant to be done mid-trick. Enemies didn't chase you when graffiti was to be done, so there was really no point to a "do the paint motions as fast as you can" mechanic. You had all the time in the world. The key to being a master tagger was to be able to trick well enough to reach the tag location. pull the trigger (or was it a button?) and the tag was complete. Meanwhile, a majority of JSR's tags were near the ground and involved that copy the arrow mechanic. The key to being a master tagger in that game was to evade enemies and complete the motions as fast as you could. Both games worked, but relied on different gameplay rules and tactics.

Anywho, point I was getting at was two games in one series can have different mechanics but both can be equally entertaining in their own way. I'm not declaring Sonic 4's homing attack is successful as I haven't played it yet, but I completely understand what previews are saying when they speak positively of homing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 12:21:59 pm
Homing attack is nothing like that... When changing Jet Set Radio Future, they wanted to have a slower paced adventure game that people would be able to play a longer period of time without actually beating it. The homing attack in a 2D game just makes the games faster and easier, it is a different concept altogether. It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all.

I greatly prefer Jet Set Radio Future myself, but both games have their own reasons for enjoyment, still it is not Jet Set Radio 2, it is a re-imagining, like how Sonic Unleashed or Sonic Adventure was. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is supposed to be a direct sequel.

In cases like this I completely forgive Sonic Colors or even something like Sonic and the Black Knight for trying different things, but not Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 29, 2010, 12:29:22 pm
"It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all."
Rocket skates. Sprinting, whaat?

Also, why did they removed the old tagging mechanic altogether?
Since there is no timer it would be EVEN NICER to use it in JSRF. At least they could give us an option.

Being nitpicky at my favorite games is fun!
WHAT'S WITH ALL THE SHINYNESS IN DAYTONA USA 2001!! GODDAMIT
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 12:36:19 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
"It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all."
Rocket skates. Sprinting, whaat?

Sprinting was in the first game too I thought? The Rocket Skates are fine though, you needed enough cans to use them at all and since you need those cans it was not always smart to just boost everywhere. Also some characters could only hold a small amount so it was not a great idea for them either.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Also, why did they removed the old tagging mechanic altogether?
Since there is no timer it would be EVEN NICER to use it in JSRF. At least they could give us an option.

I missed it, but like with Barry said, it made no sense in Future as there was never anything chasing you normally. The reason it was made for arcade purposes and stuff, you know?

Quote from: "crackdude"
WHAT'S WITH ALL THE SHINYNESS IN DAYTONA USA 2001!! GODDAMIT

FUUUUUUUFUFUFUFUFUKDHFUFUFUFKKCCCCCCc
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 29, 2010, 12:38:21 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
"It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all."
Rocket skates. Sprinting, whaat?

Also, why did they removed the old tagging mechanic altogether?
Since there is no timer it would be EVEN NICER to use it in JSRF. At least they could give us an option.

Being nitpicky at my favorite games is fun!
WHAT'S WITH ALL THE SHINYNESS IN DAYTONA USA 2001!! GODDAMIT

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 29, 2010, 12:48:01 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
JSRF simplified graffiti painting, but it was still a great game. :-/

It was a great game indeed, but honestly, the old way was still better don't you think?
I don't. I don't want to do a QTE every time I paint.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 29, 2010, 12:55:09 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
"It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all."
Rocket skates. Sprinting, whaat?

Sprinting was in the first game too I thought?
Exactly my point! The rocket skates make sprinting useless.
Sprinting also comes with a cost, and in JSRF I barely used it because of the rocket skates.
The point is one mechanic essentially made the other one obsolete except for some specific cases (no cans nearby).
I think this can relate to homming attack overshadowing Spin Dash.

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"

I missed it, but like with Barry said, it made no sense in Future as there was never anything chasing you normally. The reason it was made for arcade purposes and stuff, you know?
Yes. And exactly because nothing was chasing you you would have more time to tag stuff.
Yes, the timer was because of arcade purposes as well. Still, the taggin mechanic actually made the game more fun imo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 29, 2010, 01:05:04 pm
@George

The change never really bothered me because I liked how they gave jsrf more emphasis on bigger, larger environments resulting in a lot more exploration.

But I just felt like cheating, tagging large gravity's by just tapping the trigger button.

My take on a new system would be dumbing down the whole system like this. Push on trigger for Simple small gravity's or tagging while grinding, medium gravity's a simple qte, Biggest gravity's a more complex qte but a lot simpler than how it was in the original game.

Though I never hated it because  the emphasis on larger environments and more exploration was hell of a lot better in jsrf.

To keep this post still ontopic. The homing attack, the first time I read about it on that gamespot anouncement, even before I saw it in action. The idea just threw me off immadiatly. Considering that even modern games like sonic rush had homing attacks that were pracitically almost useless still kept me calm, it's funny how sonic 4 episode 1's homing attack ended up having the range of 3d games, reticules, beep sounds and everything you would even expect to even be considered for a sonic 4.

I can't wait to try out the demo and proof my worries right or wrong.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 01:12:54 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
"It even makes other abilities useless, nothing in Jet Set Radio Future did that at all."
Rocket skates. Sprinting, whaat?

Sprinting was in the first game too I thought?
Exactly my point! The rocket skates make sprinting useless.
Sprinting also comes with a cost, and in JSRF I barely used it because of the rocket skates.
The point is one mechanic essentially made the other one obsolete except for some specific cases (no cans nearby).
I think this can relate to homming attack overshadowing Spin Dash.

Well it does not. The homing attack you can use at all times, and it is not just the spindash that is made useless, but basic momentum, rolling and aiming your jumps towards enemies at all. It also makes the game much much easier, when in the case of the rocket skates you not only lose cans, but because it aims at nothing it does not significantly change the gameplay in any way and the use of it constantly WILL make the game harder. In fact, if they were to remake Jet Set Radio 1, I think this would be a great addition to it. Because the scoring and level design might be effected if they were designed around this though, I think it should be in an optional extra mode. Jet Set Radio always could have used some extra modes, and speaking of which...

Quote from: "crackdude"
Yes. And exactly because nothing was chasing you you would have more time to tag stuff.
Yes, the timer was because of arcade purposes as well. Still, the taggin mechanic actually made the game more fun imo.

All of the elements are there, they could have made an extra mode in Jet Set Radio Future that played more like the original with this mechanic. They could have always just designed small levels for this in mind, something like a score attack mode, you know?

I do not like how it was removed, but I think it does not make much sense in the context of the game like Barry said. Even still, it was meant to be a different genre, which is why it is not Jet Set Radio 2.

Hey, these are pretty cool ideas. I should make Jet Set Radio 2 myself! I would design it just with George in mind, with the entire soundtrack with nothing but Rob Zombie songs. YEAH!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 29, 2010, 01:24:08 pm
Or they can have a Sanus version where the whole game is QTE's. I'm sure you would like that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on September 29, 2010, 02:03:20 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I was recently watching a Sonic Colors video and the player was really confused why he could not roll or do the spindash... Why is it not in there? Seems so obvious to everyone BUT Sonic Team...

Even the terrible version of Sonic Unleashed on Wii had some spinning, why not have it like that at the very least? Or how about he rolls instead of sliding on his back?

Actual hedgehogs do not spin anymore, news at eleven.

It seems obvious to everyone but you that spindashing and rolling in 3-D space doesn't fucking work!

Have you played Sonic Adventure or any of the 3-D Sonic games that let you roll? It's useless and pointless in 3-D. You just end up veering out of control. They took it out because it became obvious is just wasn't working.

Spindashing in 3-D space makes less sense than homing attack does in 2-D space. (Not that I'm big on either.)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 02:35:33 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
It seems obvious to everyone but you that spindashing and rolling in 3-D space doesn't fucking work!

When he is boosting, make him roll instead of just having a blur effect come out of him. Simple fix. It would make more sense, not just because that is how he used to gain speed, but because he smashes into things when doing this. He has to protect that face of his!

Games like Metroid Prime, Super Monkey Ball, Kameo and tons of others (including download-only releases) can have normal rolling physics perfectly fine, I do not know why Sonic Team is incapable of this. I assume they do not try because they do not like him rolling, or simply do not know this is what made the character unique to begin with.

Quote from: "Shigs"
Have you played Sonic Adventure or any of the 3-D Sonic games that let you roll? It's useless and pointless in 3-D. You just end up veering out of control. They took it out because it became obvious is just wasn't working.

Spindashing worked fine in Sonic Adventure 2. I can understand it was kind of glitchy in Sonic Adventure 1, but much of that game was designed with the Saturn in mind, which did 3D spaces differently, and it was slower originally too. Not the perfect indication of something working in 3D or not.

If veering out of control is the problem, then the games are too fast. They need to focus on it being a platformer instead of a racing game.

Quote from: "Shigs"
Spindashing in 3-D space makes less sense than homing attack does in 2-D space. (Not that I'm big on either.)

They never attempted it in many ways, but always tried similar concepts that were not working or just replaced them with stuff like the sliding. In the case of that, I do not know why he is sliding on his back, it could just be the same thing with a spinning animation.

Still, Sonic Colors is over half 2D anyways, I do not see the problem if not just for these sections.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on September 29, 2010, 02:44:14 pm
I actually found the Spin Dash more useful in the first Sonic Adventure as it took less time to rev up and if you mashed the button while going through levels you would go really fast. It was a good move in time trials.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on September 29, 2010, 03:29:39 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
It seems obvious to everyone but you that spindashing and rolling in 3-D space doesn't fucking work!

What? Of course it works! However for it to work there needs to be fundemental changes, that being the removal of the boost pads that pretty much does the work of the spindash and Sonic must become much slower, the spindash in the original Sonic games gave Sonic a higher speed then he would get by just running in a straight line, as it is now, Sonic can reach that top speed by just running straight.

Finally the boost must be removed for there to be a need for roll, as it is, why use either when you can just boost.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on September 29, 2010, 03:40:29 pm
I think Spin-dash doesn't really work in a game like Sonic Colors.
You want to be moving forward 100% of the time. What is the point of spin-dash when boost pads are there?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on September 29, 2010, 03:48:10 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think this can relate to homming attack overshadowing Spin Dash.

When I first read this, I thought it said hummus attack.

So anyway, I'm pissed that Hummus is no longer a key feature of Sonic gameplay, and I will therefore not be buying this game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on September 29, 2010, 04:08:33 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Well it does not. The homing attack you can use at all times, and it is not just the spindash that is made useless, but basic momentum, rolling and aiming your jumps towards enemies at all. It also makes the game much much easier, when in the case of the rocket skates you not only lose cans, but because it aims at nothing it does not significantly change the gameplay in any way and the use of it constantly WILL make the game harder. In fact, if they were to remake Jet Set Radio 1, I think this would be a great addition to it. Because the scoring and level design might be effected if they were designed around this though, I think it should be in an optional extra mode. Jet Set Radio always could have used some extra modes, and speaking of which...
But the thing is it did make the game easier. When you were caught by the police you just PUSH B TO WIN HERP.
JSRF was overall much easier to get into. The rocket skates were what today would be called a "hipster gimmick for casuals".
Of course I liked them there, not the point lol

Quote from: "Rob Zombie's mum"
I should make Jet Set Radio 2 myself! I would design it just with George in mind, with the entire soundtrack with nothing but Rob Zombie songs.
I thought we were all tired of shitty rock music cofcof
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 29, 2010, 06:11:09 pm
I don't think Spin dash works very well in 3-D space. There really hasn't been a 'purpose' to have it. Most of the time, it will just make you die.

But now that SEGA is doing '2D -3D' Sonic titles....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on September 29, 2010, 08:21:15 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
But the thing is it did make the game easier. When you were caught by the police you just PUSH B TO WIN HERP.
JSRF was overall much easier to get into. The rocket skates were what today would be called a "hipster gimmick for casuals".
Of course I liked them there, not the point lol

It is not really the same thing at all. You need to have like 10 cans to do it when most characters can hold around 25. If you use it, you have to search for more cans and you might make things a lot harder. If anything it adds to the game. This is not like the homing attack or even the spindash at all.

Quote from: "crackdude"
I thought we were all tired of shitty rock music cofcof

It was a joke because George really hated that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on September 29, 2010, 08:32:56 pm
I thought jokes where suppose to be funny.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on September 30, 2010, 06:02:11 am
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
I actually found the Spin Dash more useful in the first Sonic Adventure as it took less time to rev up and if you mashed the button while going through levels you would go really fast. It was a good move in time trials.
Exactly. Most speed runs of SA1 that I've seen take advantage of the spin dash.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on September 30, 2010, 07:44:09 am
24 new screens! I smell a SEGA Blog update:
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/2010/0 ... reenshots/ (http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/2010/09/new-sonic-4-casino-street-zone-screenshots/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 30, 2010, 10:09:48 am
Sonic doesn't have that glow like he does in the new trailers. I think those are still early build screens.

Not that it matters since they're just slight visual upgrades, but I do wonder why they still show older build pics though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on September 30, 2010, 05:52:50 pm
New Mad Gear trailer

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/proj ... Bgamespace (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/projectneedlemouse/video/6280305/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-mad-gear-trailer?&tag=stitialclk%3Bgamespace)

Enjoy and share your thoughts.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on September 30, 2010, 06:09:53 pm
Mad Gear is looking like a fantastic stage! This is going to be stupendous!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on September 30, 2010, 07:15:55 pm
Looks great to me... Each zone looks better then the last. I'll be getting it for sure.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 03, 2010, 09:07:38 am
World map revealed:

(http://http://i55.tinypic.com/nff60.jpg)

Gotta say, it looks WAY more epic than I thought it would. Really impressive. Also, notice that the right of the map is shaded out. Could this be the possible Episode 2 areas? Perhaps once Episode 2 releases, the titles will lock on, allowing for one to navigate the map from left to right?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 03, 2010, 09:16:54 am
Wow, that really is a great overworld map! ^___^ Very nice, SEGA!

It looks like something worthy of Sonic Colors...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 03, 2010, 03:27:12 pm
That looks nice! Canyon levels for Episode 2?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 03, 2010, 04:28:26 pm
It is a real shame that real passion and drive to make a great game was not in the development cycle earlier. The most obvious proof of this is things like this map and the newly redesigned levels in the casino and ruin levels looking way better than the rest of the game by a lot.

I have a lot more hope for the next episode, but I guess I said that last time. :/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 03, 2010, 04:42:52 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
That looks nice! Canyon levels for Episode 2?
It's Dust Hill. I called it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 03, 2010, 08:50:34 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
World map revealed:

(http://http://i55.tinypic.com/nff60.jpg)

Gotta say, it looks WAY more epic than I thought it would. Really impressive. Also, notice that the right of the map is shaded out. Could this be the possible Episode 2 areas? Perhaps once Episode 2 releases, the titles will lock on, allowing for one to navigate the map from left to right?

Shit son, that actually looks awesome.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 04, 2010, 01:15:43 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
It is a real shame that real passion and drive to make a great game was not in the development cycle earlier. The most obvious proof of this is things like this map and the newly redesigned levels in the casino and ruin levels looking way better than the rest of the game by a lot.

I have a lot more hope for the next episode, but I guess I said that last time. :/

For once, you and I are in total agreement. When DIMPS is allowed to be more of themselves instead of being held back to make Sonic more "Classic" they show more of their originality and skill.

DIMPS is a much better developer than people give them credit for.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 04, 2010, 03:59:08 am
The problem is not Dimps. They only do what they're told to. I think that was established 120 pages ago?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 04, 2010, 01:47:40 pm
DIMPS made Sonic Pocket Adventure, which I consider the best handheld Sonic game by a lot, it has some of the best ideas to the original series ever, like those puzzle pieces. I thought Sonic Advance 1 was pretty good too.

Like Orta said though, DIMPS is not the problem here, they never were.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 04, 2010, 04:09:52 pm
Well one thing I have noticed about ever since Dimps began doing sonic 2d games is the change in level design quality. Which had a lot of bad enemy placements and placed pit traps with no warning at full speeds.

But sonic 4 doesn't seem to have those issues and that is where sonic 4 shines the most (minus the automation of the homing attack and speed boosters). The leve ldesign looks great so with this game they have ultimatly proven that they are indeed the right people for the jobs.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 04, 2010, 09:40:08 pm
The best Dimps game is Sonic Advance 3. Now that I think about it, Sonic Advance 3 does a better job at being a "Sonic 4" than the actual Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 04, 2010, 10:42:07 pm
Sonic advance 3 physics weren't polished. They were close, but felt weird and a bit off, to me at least.

Sonic advance 2 had the perfect physics but the most straight forward level design of them all and that anoying speed cap before you went "sonic boom" .

Sonic advance 1 had the best level design imo. Unlike advance 2 & 3(while advance 2 had it worst) it didn't put blazing speed gameplay on nr 1 and platforming on 2. The level design had great resemblance of the classic level design apart from a few unfair botomless pits. But hey, the classics weren't perfect either, just slightly more frequant in sonic advance 1. Especially from angel island zone.

That's my take on it  :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 05, 2010, 07:24:37 am
A TSSMB member put together these comparison pics, left is current build, right is old build. If George were doing one of his "spot the differences" contests, this would be perfect:
(http://http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/AlexBCA/SHZcomparenewold.png)

As for Sonic Advance 3, I thought the pre-act hubs were bullllllshiiiiiit. Took more time to get TO an act than it did to complete an act! Definitely a stupid decision for a handheld game. As for the game itself, the art was so samey. SAdv3 =/= Sonic 4. Sonic 4 will be much better.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 05, 2010, 08:49:13 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The best Dimps game is Sonic Advance 3. Now that I think about it, Sonic Advance 3 does a better job at being a "Sonic 4" than the actual Sonic 4.

You have got to be joking... Sonic Advance 3 was not fun at all. I would bet my bottom dollar if they had created Sonic Advanced and called it Sonic 4 everyone would be picking THAT apart instead.

I know I would, Sonic Advance 3 sucked, the co-op gameplay stuff was as shit as it was in Sonic Heroes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 05, 2010, 09:06:55 am
Argh! I forgot about the second player premise! I did not enjoy that at all. Some combinations were far too powerful, while others were simply weak. In my opinion, Sonic Pocket Adventure was the most classic of the Dimps portables, followed by Sonic Advance. Sonic Advance 2 was enjoyable, but the running boss battles really brought the game down. One or two would have been cool, but every boss? :P As for 3, as mentioned I thought it was hurt by second player powers, pre-act hubs, bland mini-games (hit the capsule to equal 11? Felt like I was playing a LeapFrog) and confusing new rules as to how to unlock stages. I'm not calling SAdv 3 shit at all, it was actually rather fun as a game, but it wasn't as good as the first two nor does it look to trump Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 05, 2010, 09:39:20 am
I agree with Sharky and Barry.

Sonic Advance 3 is not very fun.. And Sonic Pocket Adventure is Dimps moment of sheer brilliance.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 05, 2010, 09:42:35 am
Huh? The Sonic Advance 3 physics weren't accurate to Genesis physics, but at least you felt like you were playing a Sonic game. In Advance 3, Sonic can speed up while rolling down hills, he has air inertia, he can't stand on walls....

And there was so much content in Advance 3. And why complain about the partner gimmick? You don't even need it to beat the game. You just use it if you want to change your move-set, or if you want to access secret areas.

Plus the music is awesome. And the game itself it legitimately challenging.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 05, 2010, 09:45:27 am
The fact that it was on the Neo Geo Color helped too. Too bad SPA didn't have any Dreamcast connectivity like Cool Cool Jam and the KoF games did. It would have been cool if SPA and SA1 interacted somehow.

Quote
Huh? The Sonic Advance 3 physics weren't accurate to Genesis physics, but at least you felt like you were playing a Sonic game. In Advance 3, Sonic can speed up while rolling down hills, he has air inertia, he can't stand on walls....

But... you haven't played Sonic 4 yet so how can you say that playing Sonic 4 doesn't feel like a Sonic game when... you haven't played it yet...?

Urgh....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 05, 2010, 09:58:55 am
I'm going by videos and countless people who HAVE played it saying Sonic doesn't speed up while rolling and all that other stuff.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 05, 2010, 10:07:00 am
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 05, 2010, 11:59:00 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?

This.
Sonic Advance 3 was nonsense.

I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4... Over other recent Sonic games and blowing up the problems into some kind of 'epic game breaking bugs'...

Sonic Advance 3 had a really annoying, silly hub world as Barry mentioned...

It was full of grind rails, which has been one of the biggest complaints regarding Sonic games for years.

The partner system was much more 'un-sonic' then, say... the Homing Attack and while I havent played it for a while I bet you had to use it multiple times to finish the level.

The Sonic Advance art style always seemed very sterile to me, boring and plane... While I think Sonic 4 has got at least the level art spot on.

Not to mention it was full of 'shitty friends' like Cream the Rabbit... Which was ANOTHER big complaint... While Sonic 4 only has Sonic playable.

Collecting Chao?

GREEN EYES AND NO SPINNING LEGS? WORST GAME EVA!

I think some people are so caught up in trying to prove how terrible Sonic 4 is that they are going say any old shit is a better game...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 05, 2010, 12:17:27 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4...
Big improvements? What improvements? Other than graphics, everything else in Sonic 3 & Knuckles was better. With Sonic 4 being the sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, a person would expect S4 to be at least nearly as good as S3&K, right?

Anyway, I agree with you about Advance 3. If anything, there was a decrease in quality in Dimps Sonic games over the years gameplay wise (when talking about physics, Advance 1 > Advance 2 > Advance 3 > Rush series, in my opinion).
And that's pretty much the only thing that I don't like about Sonic 4, the gameplay being slightly based on Dimps Sonic games that have the worst physics, the Rush series. ._.

If the physics were based on Advance 1 or even Advance 2 (without the boost at max speed), I would have been glad with Sonic 4 though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 05, 2010, 12:49:18 pm
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 05, 2010, 01:13:35 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.
I didn't really play the classics as a kid (barely played the first couple of stages of Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles in friends houses), but recently I went through the major classics, Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles and CD, and I enjoyed most of them (except CD, that one, even with classic physics feels less fun than Sonic 4 Ep1 to me).

So, in my case can't say it's nostalgia for not liking certain gameplay elements of Sonic 4 Ep 1 (that is, physics and homing attack). :>
Of course, for some ppl it could be "nostalgia" that is "blinding" them. Be it those that think Sonic 4 is flawless, or those that think the classics were flawless.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 05, 2010, 02:17:00 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?

Kind of a strange thing to claim. You do not need to play a game to realize it is similar to something and not similar to something else. He had fair points too, like how rolling actually worked.

Quote from: "Sharky"
I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4... Over other recent Sonic games and blowing up the problems into some kind of 'epic game breaking bugs'...

I think some people are so caught up in trying to prove how terrible Sonic 4 is that they are going say any old shit is a better game...

You are thinking too much into this. While some are like this, when we were talking about this the other day you thought me saying I thought Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I was going to get 6s and 7s everywhere was a way for me to crap on the game. I never said those scores were my opinion on it, but you still got frustrated regardless.

Quote from: "Sharky"
The partner system was much more 'un-sonic' then, say... the Homing Attack and while I havent played it for a while I bet you had to use it multiple times to finish the level.

Bullshit. Elements like this were hinted at as far back as Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and SegaSonic Arcade. Why should Sonic characters not be able to work together?

You do not need to use any partners to beat the game, but you did to collect Chao. In that case only the combination of Knuckles and Tails was of most use. Stupid ideas like if you have Sonic as your main character and Amy as your secondary meant Sonic could not spin when he jumped. I think this is a terrible idea, but for a spinoff there are much worse. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is not a spinoff.

Quote from: "Sharky"
The Sonic Advance art style always seemed very sterile to me, boring and plane... While I think Sonic 4 has got at least the level art spot on.

Not hard to do when they literally copy everything from the original trilogy with minor tweaks. "Spot on" is not really the word, but stuff like that image Barry posted show clear improvements, and I am somewhat happy they actually went back to actually try and make it not look cheap as Hell.

And the ART of the Sonic Advance series was mixed, but had a lot of great stuff too, it was just the level design that was shitty. Check this out for instance.

(http://http://dioxaz.free.fr/decors/sa2/decorleefforest05.png) (http://http://dioxaz.free.fr/decors/sa2/decorleefforest08.png)

I think that looks brilliant, and it is just one level from what most of us regard as the worst in the Advance series.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Not to mention it was full of 'shitty friends' like Cream the Rabbit... Which was ANOTHER big complaint... While Sonic 4 only has Sonic playable.

I am not sure how this is a complaint. Cream is a pretty lame character, but If Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I had Knuckles playable, I am sure most people would be happy.

Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.

Stop saying shit like this, it is literally retarded now when everyone else has accepted that it does change the overall design. Why is it okay if you say the game is fun, but if someone else were to say it is not or point out some basic complaint that he is suddenly an idiot and probably an asshole?

If the Holocaust happened in the 1870s would it have been a good thing, or any better at all? What if it happened in the 1960s instead? Way worse?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 05, 2010, 02:30:55 pm
I think the biggest issue is most people are way, way more critical about games these days. I'm pretty sure most people just played games to have fun when they were younger and little flaws in a title didn't bother them, they would still have an enjoyable experience. Today most people won't give a game a try if it had bad reviews even if it was a game that they might highly enjoy.
That's why I try to approach titles with an optimistic attitude. A game may not end up being to my tastes, but if something really has my interest there is a very high chance I will enjoy it, and I'm positive I'm going to have a ton of fun playing Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 05, 2010, 03:33:37 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.

Stop saying shit like this, it is literally retarded now when everyone else has accepted that it does change the overall design. Why is it okay if you say the game is fun, but if someone else were to say it is not or point out some basic complaint that he is suddenly an idiot and probably an asshole?

If the Holocaust happened in the 1870s would it have been a good thing, or any better at all? What if it happened in the 1960s instead? Way worse?
Where the fuck did I say that it doesn't change the design? I even said it would be revolutionary, as in completely different. Stop putting words in my typing.

My point was that judging a game based on a design chance is rubbish. And I was reminding that if this game had been released a year after 3&K it could possibly be the best (or worse) of the series. There would be no predisposition to the design change.

Imagine S4 being released back then, followed by 15 years of no Sonic game at all. Everyone would expect S5 to have homing attack and would rage if it didn't, because S4 had made it "a staple of the series" 15 years ago.

It's all a matter of perspective. And the fact that some people criticize that it's bad because it's different is stupid.

There ARE physics flaws, there ARE potential troubling glitches.. But in the end homing attack will never break this game. At the very worst, it's implementation will.

And what does the Holocaust have to do with anything? That's an inappropriate comment at best.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 05, 2010, 04:26:05 pm
You kind of missed my point. The homing attack is not any kind of revelation to 2D Sonic, even Iizuka admitted not having it in those games was part of the fun!

Sorry if my comments went too far though, just getting sick of some of these responses I am seeing in here and online. People trying too hard to defend every little detail about this game are just as bad as the people that go out of their way to pick apart the bad details.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 05, 2010, 04:44:48 pm
We would all love this game if it came out right after Sonic 3 & Knuckles? What is this? If I did not enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog CD as much back in the day as I did the other four games, it goes to show I probably would not enjoy this game as much as I did the others.

It's silly to think like that, since it happens to be another assumption and I could very well say if this came out after Sonic & Knuckles it would get as bad reception as it would be held to an even higher standards.

Ifs and buts are a silly thing to throw into an argument since the other side could easily use it themselves.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 05, 2010, 05:17:43 pm
Of course. But I'm kind of struggling to explain my point correctly..

The game is (besides it's flaws) being prematurely judged based on preconceived notions of what it should be.
My point was that had it been released back then, today's notions for a Sonic game could be different (depending on the success/failure of the game).

I'm not defending the game's flaws, that's pointless and idiotic.

But I do believe homing attack gameplay can also potentially be fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 05, 2010, 07:22:53 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?
I was mostly referring to basic Sonic logic like speeding up while rolling and whatnot.

And I have never complained about uncurling or Homing Attack. I have only been complaining about the physics engine. The engine is a huge mess in my opinion, and it seems to be a step down from the Rush engine in terms of oddities and other stuff.

Also, Advance 3 is amazing. Anybody who says it's horrible is wrong!! :evil:  :evil:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 06, 2010, 02:58:22 am
Has Rubyeclipse gone hopeless??

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=347080 (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=347080)

Seriously, I have never seen such a shameless way of convincing people to give them money. Wow...

Guess the quality alone wasn't enough for people to be all excited to take the initiative themselves.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 06, 2010, 05:10:32 am
I am true blue, I've been a fan for almost 20 years and all I ever got from Sega was a keyboard. Fucking lol, now I need to buy multiple copies of Sonic the Mess 4 to show how much of a fan I am. Maybe I should photograph my collection and post it there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 06, 2010, 08:23:09 am
Well I'm already confirmed to be getting the iPod and 360 versions, so looks like I made the list.

I'm starting my iPhone review already! Just the intro paragraphs discussing SEGA and Sonic's history with handhelds and the iPhone specifically. It's looking to be quite a big write up. I haven't even gotten to the review section (obviously, game ain't out yet) and I already have 2 paragraphs.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 06, 2010, 08:41:32 am
Well whatever.

There was a special Sonic the hedgehog 4 coverage at CNET with rubyeclipse as a guest playing 3 full stages on the show.

This actually shows a lot of the game.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20018674-1.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20018674-1.html)

Enjoy
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 06, 2010, 08:45:37 am
But the guy is trying to sell the game, that is his job. I know if I worked on a game I'd be pushing it harder and more shamelessly then this.

I don't see him pushing people too buy more copies, I see him saying IF YOU DO then we'll give you a shout out. Seems fair to me... If you are stupid enough to suddenly want to buy more copies then you originally were going to because you want to be mentioned on a blog then A) you deserve to lose the money and B) Ruby desverse to have it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 06, 2010, 08:57:05 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm starting my iPhone review already! Just the intro paragraphs discussing SEGA and Sonic's history with handhelds and the iPhone specifically. It's looking to be quite a big write up. I haven't even gotten to the review section (obviously, game ain't out yet) and I already have 2 paragraphs.
This isn't for Segabits, is it?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 06, 2010, 09:11:56 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
But the guy is trying to sell the game, that is his job. I know if I worked on a game I'd be pushing it harder and more shamelessly then this.

I don't see him pushing people too buy more copies, I see him saying IF YOU DO then we'll give you a shout out. Seems fair to me... If you are stupid enough to suddenly want to buy more copies then you originally were going to because you want to be mentioned on a blog then A) you deserve to lose the money and B) Ruby desverse to have it.
It just seems so desperate to stop this game from failing. I'm sorry but I have never seen a company abuse they're fans in such a way. It disgusts me to be honest.

I understand that ruby really wants this to succeed, but at the same time i'm like, are you fucking desperate ?? Are you not confident about your product?? Why fgs?

I.. honestly don't know what to say...

Edit: If this shit would hit the media, what do you think the general response would be?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 06, 2010, 09:26:10 am
Quote
Edit: If this shit would hit the media, what do you think the general response would be?

Probably the same over blown, drama filled reaction as I'm seeing now? I'm sure.

But trying to keep this in perspective, I'd say he's simply doing his job and hasn't once told people they must go out and buy it multiple times. Instead he's saying those that have done will get a mention on the blog...

I don't think this is going to sway ANYONE to by more copies then they already planned too unless these people are complete mindless sheep... Which, in that case they deserve it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 06, 2010, 09:35:36 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I'm starting my iPhone review already! Just the intro paragraphs discussing SEGA and Sonic's history with handhelds and the iPhone specifically. It's looking to be quite a big write up. I haven't even gotten to the review section (obviously, game ain't out yet) and I already have 2 paragraphs.
This isn't for Segabits, is it?

It'll be on the bits and at my blog, only difference will be the scoring. Nomad 'Yard will be out of 5 nomads, bits will be the letter grade system. I think I've translated it correctly, a 5 to 1 Nomad rating = A,B,C,D,F in bits ratings.

edit: as for Ruby, I'd say relax on it. Like Ryan mentioned, he;s just doing his job and buying more than one version isn't being made a requirement. It's just a fun way of rewarding the super fans. Think of it as a producer credit for funding the next game. In fact, what if the secret he's talking about is a producer credit on Episode 2? To be featured in the in-game creidts would be rather awesome. I'd pay $55 for that. Baaaa!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 06, 2010, 09:58:48 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
It'll be on the bits and at my blog, only difference will be the scoring. Nomad 'Yard will be out of 5 nomads, bits will be the letter grade system. I think I've translated it correctly, a 5 to 1 Nomad rating = A,B,C,D,F in bits ratings.
Meh... well, it is just the iPhone version.

Are you going to be reviewing the console versions on here, too? I might need to say my peace on the matter, if so.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 06, 2010, 10:11:41 am
I'm certain a number of things in the iOS version could apply to the console versions in my review, especially level design and music. I'm leaving the console versions to others here, hey maybe even a non-writer will submit a review before Sharky, George or Nuckles does! I'd actually love to see a few reviews of the console versions simply because the community has such varying opinions on the game. It'd be awesome if, perhaps, the PS3, 360 and Wii versions each receive their own reviews from different reviewers.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 06, 2010, 10:30:56 am
I feel that the perfect reviewer for the console versions would have to be somebody who hasn't already convinced themselves that this is a great game before it's been released. I say this from standpoint that Segabits doesn't need to appear to outsiders as a group of fanboys who are handing out free lunches to SEGA.

I would volunteer, but then I'm not sure that I could forgive myself for spending $15 on a game that I might breeze through in a very short afternoon.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 06, 2010, 10:40:59 am
There is no such thing as the perfect reviewer, the best somebody can do is play the game and review it for what it is. It's impossible for anybody to ignore preconceived notions either positive or negative. I don't think any review can be done by somebody who is neutral, unless that person is mind-wiped or has no prior knowledge of the game.

Based on what I've seen from the reviews here, SEGAbits is completely safe when it comes to the threat of being labeled as a group of fanboys. Checking out the reviews page right now, I see a number of C's, a few D's, some B's and three or four A's given to games deserving of that high rank. So yeah, it's all good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 06, 2010, 11:05:43 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
There is no such thing as the perfect reviewer, the best somebody can do is play the game and review it for what it is.
When I wrote "perfect", what I actually meant was "ideal". Quite a few people around here would not be ideal choices for reviewing this game. I'm not trying to demonize you guys, either; I'm merely expressing my honest feelings on the matter.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 06, 2010, 07:23:54 pm
Fluffy is right. I would not trust a review on the game for someone who has not beaten the original trilogy, for instance. I think Aki should review it for this site.

As for the "Buying multiple copies" thing. I see no problem with it. If anyone is stupid enough to buy the exact same product on multiple platforms for no reason than for people to hear their name, then let them waste their money.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 06, 2010, 08:00:17 pm
Nothing is stopping anyone from posting a review in the front page right? Then if you guys think it's good it goes live. Is this how it works?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 06, 2010, 08:08:36 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Nothing is stopping anyone from posting a review in the front page right? Then if you guys think it's good it goes live. Is this how it works?

Yes.

Personally I think Nuckles87 should review it... He seems the most unbiased and has probably played every Sonic game in existance by now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 06, 2010, 10:47:11 pm
We definetly need someone neutral to review it. Nor hateful nor fanboyish.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 07, 2010, 03:29:19 am
I would do it, but that would mean I would have to spend money on the game. Not gonna happen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 07, 2010, 03:51:47 am
If you want me to do it, I'm willing to give it a go.

Here are my impressions. I'd of course, go into a more thorough review on the site.

Cons (Start with the bad, end with the good.)

The Virtual D-Pad, while a bit better than the Sonic 2 version, still isn't precise enough for solid platforming. I'm still stuck on LL Act 3 due to the wall coming fast and the virtual D-Pad not working well enough for me to get a quick spindash where I need it. Most of the problems I'm having with the game are due to this.

This is obviously the old build with no improvements made. This version was probably ready to go months ago. Sonic barely ever gets into full speed mode while the final build on the console shows him going into full speed much sooner.

The tilt during the special stages feels delayed and is not 1:1

Why are they giving me all the stages at once instead of letting me progress naturally?

Carnival Street Zone Act 2 is completely pointless and stupid. I mean, okay. I can understand them wanting to make one level like a pinball game, but it's so short and small and you can get the points so fast just by keeping Sonic near the upper left of the stage. Why not make an actual pinball table level? The new Act 2 looks MUCH better.

Not that big on CSZ Act 3 and the stupid cannons either.

There are some spots where the double jump that can thrust you forward is necessary to get by some platforms. When it's not an HA, it's a boost jump.

There are some parts where tilt implementation would make sense, but are not included. Like in LL when the Water drains, or tilting the cannons in CSZ Act 3

No Leaderboards ruins re-playability. (Although, I did beat Rubyeclipse's time on Splash Hill Act 1)

Pros

While I'm not big on the boost jump, I like HA just fine. It's not so instant win. You do have to time it a little or you can get killed.

While the other two acts didn't impress me much. Carnival Street Zone act 1 Was great and had much better pinball physics than I was expecting. With the exception of slowing down a lot when you touch the flippers. Other than that, it was like classic Sonic.

The games not a cakewalk. Mad Gear is tough and the special stages can be quite challenging. Not only are you rotating the maze to get to the chaos emerald, but you have a time limit and have to collect enough rings to open gates. It's a challenge, but not one that feels unfair.

Still dig Lost Labyrinth and Mad Gear as much as when I first saw them.

I thought the Mine Cart level was kinda fun. Not the best level in the game by far, but not a disaster either.

There's an option for total touch control. No tilt. Works okay for the special stages. Not so well for the Mine Cart.

OVERALL: I would be enjoying this game a lot more with a standard D-Pad. There's no real feeling of progression in this version (Something they fixed in the console ones) because all the levels except boss fights and special zones are open to you from the start. That said, there's still some fun to be had here and there. Especially in the later stages.

By iTunes grading, I give it 3 out of 5 stars. I'd wait until there's a sale on it for at least $4.99 before picking it up. If you only get one Sonic 4, pass this version up. The console versions will control much better and have some improvements.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 07:21:53 am
Expect an iPhone review from me before noon (or maybe within the next hour!)

DL'ed it at 11 last night, played it for 2 hours, slept, woke up at 5am, played it for 2 hours and played it on the train for 30 minutes. Did I like it? All will be revealed soon!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 07, 2010, 08:23:16 am
No demo? Is that usual on iTunes?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 08:33:54 am
Sometimes a free version will be released that acts as a demo, but SEGA and most other major publishers have not embraced it. Part of the problem is that it's a separate app, not the full version that instantly unlocks. Could be it costs them to do it, or it is too much a hassle to release a demo on the app store.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 07, 2010, 08:36:38 am
I see. I'll wait for the Xbox version then.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 08:41:22 am
iPhone review is up!

http://www.segabits.com/?p=4767 (http://www.segabits.com/?p=4767)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 07, 2010, 08:45:24 am
Wasn't the game just released today, though?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 08:54:14 am
Released last night at 11pm
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 07, 2010, 09:01:36 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Released last night at 11pm
That's still less than 12 hours to let the hype die down. :P

Blah, never mind.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 07, 2010, 09:05:47 am
I really enjoyed your review. I take it you beat it already? How long did it last?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 09:12:00 am
I'd say I put 5 hours into the game, I beat all but E.G.G. Station (though I have played it) and have not collected all the emeralds (I have 4). I jumped around quite a bit to get a feel for the whole game, and replayed personal favorite acts a few more times than the others so 5 hours isn't necessarily a start to finish play time. I will say that I still have a lot do do even with a good portion of the game completed. There were a number of paths that I have yet to see and I haven't explored time attack mode too much. I also want to try for a playthrough with tilt controls, just to see if I can do it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 07, 2010, 09:57:10 am
Great review! And you kinda explained the same thoughts as mine about the homing attack and how it could be a feature even if the game was released back then. Only you did it way better than I could!

Glad to know it works good. I just don't get what's that uncurling thing..

I'm looking forward for the PSN version!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 07, 2010, 09:57:42 am
Jealous. Wish it was not itunes only (for mobile) :(

Well, PSN ver it is.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 07, 2010, 10:20:57 am
Btw, I beat Ruby's time attack challenge (1'13") but he has failed to open the SEGA Forums thread for me to post the photo. Probably cuz he's scared.

(http://http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6297/36318885.jpg)

A note about the homing attack: You only get one chance to hit something with it in the air. If you fail to make contact with anything you can't use it until reaching the ground and jumping again. This is nice, as it cuts down greatly on spamming the attack. However, if you use it and hit something, it resets and can be used again (to chain). So thankfully, it cannot be spammed.

Example: I tried running off an enemy-free ledge and used the homing attack to mid-air dash but then while coming down I thought I'd sneakily boost again towards an item box, but was unable to perform a second HA as my first did not make contact with an enemy or item.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 07, 2010, 01:51:11 pm
I got 1'09"62 on Splash Hill Act 1.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 07, 2010, 02:01:22 pm
I JUST HAD THIS TOTALLY SWEET IDEA.

We should host some records here at SegaBits! We could have a board with some challenges from Sega games!

EXAMPLE:
Thread: Green Hill Zone Act 1
Objective: Beat GHZ1 in less than a minute.
Each new post would have to beat the time of the previous one or something similar.

Another thread for points in an Outrun2 15-course run, or lap times in Sega Rally.. Money in a 3minute Crazy Taxi run. Things like that!

Just a random idea.. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 07, 2010, 02:26:02 pm
I had that idea in my head for a while, since I'll probably need something for my Databases course project. :C
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 07, 2010, 07:58:23 pm
Quote from: "Shigs"
I got 1'09"62 on Splash Hill Act 1.
BARRY BEAT HIM RIGHT NOW  :shock:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 08, 2010, 02:28:35 am
One of the trophies/achievements is to beat the first level in under a minute. I wonder who's going to do it first?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 08, 2010, 03:53:29 am
(http://http://i52.tinypic.com/169mflu.png)

UK iPhone charts

To be up that high with about 24 hours on sales would mean the game has managed to sell tens of thousands of copies, also happens to have an average rating of about 4.5 out of 5 and listed as the iPhone Game of the Week. Even managed to beat FIFA 11.

I am thinking SEGA will be happy with the sales of it in the UK, probably extremely pleased.

But it's 17th in the American charts, although thanks to it's price, it's 2nd highest grosser over there, so I'll keep a tab on high that develops.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 08, 2010, 08:14:03 am
Quote from: "George"
Quote from: "Shigs"
I got 1'09"62 on Splash Hill Act 1.
BARRY BEAT HIM RIGHT NOW  :shock:

I BEAT HIM LAST NIGHT 1'09"06! Got the screen grab to prove it, will post later today!

Proof:
(http://http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/596/82736009.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 08, 2010, 09:27:45 am
I love how some neoGaffers are in denial mode over Sonic 4 getting good reviews.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 08, 2010, 09:41:40 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
I love how some neoGaffers are in denial mode over Sonic 4 getting good reviews.
What reviews? o_O;
Only Sonic 4 review I've seen so far was the SEGAbits one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 08, 2010, 09:54:23 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
I love how some neoGaffers are in denial mode over Sonic 4 getting good reviews.


Haters gonna hate?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 08, 2010, 10:21:21 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote from: "George"
Quote from: "Shigs"
I got 1'09"62 on Splash Hill Act 1.
BARRY BEAT HIM RIGHT NOW  :shock:

I BEAT HIM LAST NIGHT 1'09"06! Got the screen grab to prove it, will post later today!

Proof:
(http://http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/596/82736009.jpg)
(http://http://imgur.com/yMD8l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 08, 2010, 10:32:48 am
One minute makes it a quite big first level..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 08, 2010, 12:44:44 pm
Quote from: "George"

I BEAT HIM LAST NIGHT 1'09"06! Got the screen grab to prove it, will post later today!

Proof:
(http://http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/596/82736009.jpg)
(http://http://imgur.com/yMD8l.jpg)[/quote]

Awww snap!! Now I know what I have to do for the evening. XD

Anyone know how to take screencaps from an iPod Touch?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 08, 2010, 02:11:10 pm
Barry will have this knowledge, we shall see if he shares it with you O.O
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 08, 2010, 03:45:38 pm
Hmm. Should I share? Hmmmm... Ok. Press (don't hold) the home button and the top hold button at the same time. The screen will flash white and you'll hear a photo snap sound. It'll be saved to your photo library. B-|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 08, 2010, 03:51:25 pm
Waaaitaminute. Is'nt that how you reset your iPod?

"Tries it cautiously"

NM you're right. :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 08, 2010, 03:54:12 pm
IGN just reviewed the game and one of the negative things they noticed was the lack of co-op.

O...K... That sounds resonable, but co-op in a 2D Sonic game doesn't seem practical in the very least.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 08, 2010, 04:01:04 pm
bu you didn't post the review! or score!/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 08, 2010, 04:12:02 pm
IGN gave it an 8.0 on both 360 and iPhone

http://www.ign.com/videos/2010/10/08/so ... ctid=31451 (http://www.ign.com/videos/2010/10/08/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-i-video-review?objectid=31451)

GamesRadar gave it a 9/10 on PS3 version both

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/sonic-the ... 5153197035 (http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-i/review/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-review/a-20101008112650143032/g-20090909115153197035)

In 'yo fucking face NeoGAF!! XD
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 08, 2010, 04:22:20 pm
Was going to write an article called "Are Sonic fans ready for good Sonic games?"

But then I would have to argue that Unleashed wasn't good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 08, 2010, 04:24:04 pm
It's strangely funny, seeing good reviews being ignored over there and positive reception from most casual fans, kind of reminds of the time when Silver 06 was released and people ignored the negative reviews and reception.

I am not sure why you put so much effort into trying to convience them, nor do I see why they try so hard to convience everyone it's a terrible game either though, mind.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 08, 2010, 05:01:09 pm
Another positive Sonic 4 review:

RunDLC: 4/5 (http://http://www.rundlc.com/reviews/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-review-xbox-live-psn-wiiware/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 08, 2010, 05:43:14 pm
Oh shit. Good Sonic game reviews? Feels like 9 years ago man...

"# Physics are different, not necessarily worse"
I liked this point. It was something we were scared about, but it seems it isn't a big issue.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 08, 2010, 05:50:10 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
"# Physics are different, not necessarily worse"
I liked this point. It was something we were scared about, but it seems it isn't a big issue.

Trust me when I say, they are worse, not just different. The angles in which Sonic can do an idle walk really should not be in this game.

But if you did not mind or enjoyed the physics in the Sonic Rush games, then you ought to have a fun time playing through Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 08, 2010, 06:17:18 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
IGN just reviewed the game and one of the negative things they noticed was the lack of co-op.

O...K... That sounds resonable, but co-op in a 2D Sonic game doesn't seem practical in the very least.

Another "thought" thrown into the bunch for the sake of arguing New Super Mario Bros is better. Co-op does not belong in a game like this. If you're good, you'll go fast, if you're new to the game not so much. How do you work that out? These people should get some brains.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 08, 2010, 06:45:22 pm
"Trust me when I say, they are worse, not just different. The angles in which Sonic can do an idle walk really should not be in this game."
Yes, but I was referring more to the general audience. They tend to not pick up on those things as much as we do of course..

I wasn't a fan of the physics in Rush but I didn't mind them either..

Also by Co-op I'm pretty sure they were thinking of how in Sonic 2 and 3 a second player can pick up the controller and play as Tails.
I think that will be in Ep2.. They'll add Tails to the mix.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 08, 2010, 10:43:15 pm
Differing physics are fine as long as they aren't game breaking. The game plays well from start to finish with the physics causing few to no problems. Now if you play the game with the intention to compare the physics to a Genesis game, you will find differences but that doesn't mean that a difference = a bad game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 09, 2010, 02:07:27 am
(http://http://i52.tinypic.com/dhehkw.png)

Looks like you'll have to work harder George. 8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 09, 2010, 02:37:43 am
After all the disliking from me and a lot of others towards the game, and now seeing all the good reviews. I realised sonic deserves it after so long. I mean how lang has it been since a "sonic" game on the console was generally well preceived? Yeah exactly.

Sonic 4 is getting good reviews and allthough at the beginning I was like, this game doesn't deserve it exactly imo, now I think this can only take the franchise to a much brighter future. If sonic colors nails it to get good reviews too, this will be a great year for sonic.



PS: Still dislike s4e1 however :oops:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 09, 2010, 07:23:23 am
CrazyTails did an inverted Sonic Cycle lol
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 09, 2010, 07:37:52 am
Sonic Advance 2 also got a lot of positive reviews, heck Sonic Rush was considered a return to the classic roots of the series, point being blue hedgehog + speed + 2D only = most reviewers going crazy over it, it's not like they realized what made Sonic so good in the first place either.

Not that I'm trying to rain on the parade, but getting good reviews for Sonic games should not be so hard, it's just so happens that they've lacked any direction and terrible QA and horrible planning and some truly atrocious game ideas, that even a okay game would be able to get great reviews so long as it stuck to what people believe is Sonic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 09, 2010, 07:38:49 am
Were all fucked! Kids at TSS have been running SHZ act 1 in 47 seconds! Yikes!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 09, 2010, 10:59:21 am
WE ARE LOSERS: FUCK US.

30 MINUTES OR BUST, BARRY.

How do you expect to get that high paying job at the DVD making house? THIS IS IT!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 09, 2010, 11:48:09 am
Sonic Advance 2 was very good. Thats why it got great reviews.

And YOU CAN DO IT BARRY I BELIEVE IN YOU
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 09, 2010, 12:42:42 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic Advance 2 was very good.

In Sonic Advance 2 you had to cross a bottomless pit to beat a level. "Very good" does not apply to Sonic Advance 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 09, 2010, 12:57:55 pm
Man up and jump that shit.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 09, 2010, 01:06:31 pm
I stand correct.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 09, 2010, 01:22:01 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic Advance 2 was very good. Thats why it got great reviews.

Sonic Advance 2 is hold right to win and has some of the worst level designs in the series.

Which is why I say reviewers have very little idea of what a good Sonic game, makes. Don't make me post maps! I'll do it I swear!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 09, 2010, 01:37:31 pm
I bought that game when it came out. I didn't read any reviews nor opinions. Just got it, played it and loved it.

So I don't get what's wrong with it.. The Canyon level is hard. The techno one is cheap. But those are supposed to be the hardest levels, so I don't know what to complain about..

There is no "good Sonic game" formula. Some you can enjoy, like Advance 2; some you can't, like Advance 3.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 09, 2010, 02:40:13 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
There is no "good Sonic game" formula.

(http://http://ui19.gamespot.com/1010/sonic2_2.png)

There is cake and there is cake.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 09, 2010, 03:02:44 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "crackdude"
There is no "good Sonic game" formula.

(http://http://ui19.gamespot.com/1010/sonic2_2.png)

There is cake and there is cake.
I prefer this one. :>
(http://http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2614/sonic3knuckles.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 09, 2010, 03:11:49 pm
So do I, but Sonic 2 is likely the definitive Sonic game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 09, 2010, 04:00:59 pm
I just realized Sonic peaked at the second game and has gone downwards ever since :D

jk
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 09, 2010, 04:11:18 pm
Flamewar, GO! Badum dish.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Alex Supersonic on October 09, 2010, 04:24:48 pm
Played the full version of Sonic 4 today at SEGA, it's absolutely stunning. Saw almost every level, the casino and labyrinth levels are really really good and it looks very nice. There are a lot of recycled things from the old Sonics though. But in general the game has come great. Looking really forward to wednesday.

(Also played Sonic Colors, liked that very much too. I think I will buy it, even if I hate playing on the Wii. The wisps are very nice, they are a really cool new feature.)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 09, 2010, 04:47:36 pm
Anyone want to collect up all the good reviews so far?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 09, 2010, 09:24:47 pm
TSSMB has a good reviews thread going:  http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/695 ... ntry208804 (http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/6959-sonic-4-episode-1-review-topic/page__pid__208804__st__0&#entry208804)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 10, 2010, 11:54:20 am
So in the IGN video review:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8__PP88BCY

At around 1:15, does it look like Sonic is speeding up while rolling? Did they fix that, or am I imagining things? :cry:

Same thing at around 0:10....it looks like Sonic picks up a little speed when he rolls down. What do you all think?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 10, 2010, 12:37:27 pm
He does.
Can we say it's a good game now?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 10, 2010, 01:20:35 pm
He's going downwards. What about horizontal sections?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 10, 2010, 01:23:44 pm
You only keep going when you keep pressing down the direction button, even when rolling.

The reason why it looks like there is momentum, is because the game forces to keep pressing left/right when spinning.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 10, 2010, 01:26:55 pm
The reason why it looks like there is momentum is because THERE IS momentum.

There's no bloody way the guy's pressing DOWN+RIGHT so long.

When he's spinning down, he accelerates. That's accurate. I do wonder how it behaves on an horizontal plane.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 10, 2010, 02:04:01 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
You only keep going when you keep pressing down the direction button, even when rolling.

The reason why it looks like there is momentum, is because the game forces to keep pressing left/right when spinning.

Are you saying it's similar to jumping in this game? (Like if you let go of the D-pad, Sonic stops in mid-air.) Which would mean that if you let go of right/left on the D-Pad, Sonic's rolling decelerates rapidly?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 10, 2010, 02:32:15 pm
That makes no sense. For jumping it works, but while rolling is absurd. I'll be so pissed if that happens.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 10, 2010, 02:55:12 pm
You just have to quickly press down, than right. It's more simple than you think it is. Sonic uses the rush physics in s4e1, not the pinball physics from the classics.

Demonstration.

S4e1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTBR6XL7eL0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTBR6XL7eL0)

sonic rush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCGiEInc ... d#t=00m50s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCGiEIncR7w&feature=player_embedded#t=00m50s)



Now watch this video of a guy who's trying to play the game, genesis style and look what happens.

[youtube:2jefwrra]3bpu1Tz2nlU[/youtube:2jefwrra]

Props that he's still positive while those things occur but it's not really a big deal when you adept to s4e1's mechanics, I think.

Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
You only keep going when you keep pressing down the direction button, even when rolling.

The reason why it looks like there is momentum, is because the game forces to keep pressing left/right when spinning.

Are you saying it's similar to jumping in this game? (Like if you let go of the D-pad, Sonic stops in mid-air.) Which would mean that if you let go of right/left on the D-Pad, Sonic's rolling decelerates rapidly?

Yeah, unless there are speed boosters or keep holding the direction buttons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 10, 2010, 04:20:20 pm
Sorry for double posting, but there's a new clear video of the new build.

It's Casino street act 2, and it has SUPER SONIC.

[youtube:3j8yqi0f]xzxiOu1LJfA[/youtube:3j8yqi0f]

They gave supersonic his own music, nice :).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 10, 2010, 04:24:06 pm
The music is awful. Good lord.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 10, 2010, 05:56:01 pm
The music is great for a jingle. But for a full back track for Super Sonic something more rocking hardcore would be fun..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 10, 2010, 07:28:23 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
The music is awful. Good lord.
What did you expect? Nearly all of the music in this game is awful.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 10, 2010, 09:25:47 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Orta"
The music is awful. Good lord.
What did you expect? Nearly all of the music in this game is awful.

I'd say it's pretty half and half to be honest.

With the Casino zone being the worst.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 10, 2010, 09:33:53 pm
So I was just testing out this rolling thing in Sonic Rush, and yeah, CrazyTails is right. If you want to speed-up while rolling in Rush (and Sonic 4), you MUST hold down right or left while rolling. If you don't, Sonic just rolls slowly.

I tested it on a hill, and Sonic was able to go faster down the hill by rolling instead of running. But ONLY if I was holding right on the D-pad.

I also tested on flat horizontal surfaces. Rolling worked as it should if you hold down right/left on the D-pad.

Well at least it's in the game. But still, it's pretty annoying.  :| What's with all this weird momentum-losing stuff??
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on October 10, 2010, 10:07:38 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Orta"
The music is awful. Good lord.
What did you expect? Nearly all of the music in this game is awful.

I'd say it's pretty half and half to be honest.

With the Casino zone being the worst.

 Nope. The boss theme and bonus stage are the worst.

 Just call BO back to do the sounds! Dumb Sega...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 10, 2010, 10:21:31 pm
STORM! Find out more about the Shenmue City game! GO GO GO!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 11, 2010, 12:06:40 am
I like the Lost Labyrinth and Mad Gear themes, but yea. The rest is pretty much crap. Jun Sunoe composes pretty forgettable music and hard to forget butt rock.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 11, 2010, 03:28:03 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Orta"
The music is awful. Good lord.
What did you expect? Nearly all of the music in this game is awful.

Jun Senoue usually composes good to great music. I was expecting the soundtrack to be the best part of the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 11, 2010, 11:13:03 am
I just played the iPhone version today and what the fuck are you talking about. The spindash works normal. You press down, Sonic spindashes. If you're in a straight, he slows down like he did on Sonic 1. And when you're going down, he speeds up like he did on Sonic 1. What's with this pressing right thing?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 11, 2010, 11:53:53 am
Yeah I played the game too today. He doesn't "speed up" when going down a slope without pressing the d-pad.

Let's not argue any further. Since you have gotten the game, it would be nice if you shared your thoughts with us :D. I will too after I play more of it. My brother just got the game for his Iphone and it was better than I thought.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on October 11, 2010, 12:39:20 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I just played the iPhone version today and what the fuck are you talking about. The spindash works normal. You press down, Sonic spindashes. If you're in a straight, he slows down like he did on Sonic 1. And when you're going down, he speeds up like he did on Sonic 1. What's with this pressing right thing?
Pressing right makes Sonic speed-up while rolling down hills as he should. If you don't press right, Sonic rolls down hills at the same speed as running down hills.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 11, 2010, 02:27:13 pm
I don't have it, I have an Android lol I just borrowed from a friend lol

But I tried to test this exact issue and couldn't quite understand..

"Pressing right makes Sonic speed-up while rolling down hills as he should. If you don't press right, Sonic rolls down hills at the same speed as running down hills."
I see.. But just pressing down made him speed up as well I think..

It was a brief experience.. I'll try it out best when I buy it Wednesday. At 3.30PM
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 11, 2010, 02:36:57 pm
So who is planning to get all versions of the game? <_<

[Man I need to visit here more often, stupid education system]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 11, 2010, 02:43:15 pm
Ha! I'm only getting 360 and iPhone because it's the best combo. I honestly don't see the point in owning two or more home versions.

oh! and PS- I've seen the final build being played on a stream and they've added a little cutscene to the game. Nothing major, but it was a necessary transition.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 11, 2010, 02:50:16 pm
Any idea if the Wii version supports the Gamecube controller?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 11, 2010, 03:29:19 pm
I'm getting it for the PS3 as it's the only one I got.

I might write 'SONIC 4' on my penis and leg for celebration purposes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 11, 2010, 03:39:06 pm
4skin

I went there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 11, 2010, 08:24:07 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Any idea if the Wii version supports the Gamecube controller?
No only Wiimote.

I'm getting all versions because of this and I'm first on the list http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=347080 (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=347080)

PS: F@#$ing 7th Chaos Emerald, next time Episode should have Sonic 3 type special stages.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 11, 2010, 08:58:40 pm
Quote from: "Kori-Maru"

PS: F@#$ing 7th Chaos Emerald, next time Episode should have Sonic 3 type special stages.

Yeah, I was always better at the S3&K special stages than the Sonic 1 and 2.  The special stages from the first Sonic game have always been the hardest for me. =P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 11, 2010, 09:01:35 pm
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
Quote from: "Kori-Maru"

PS: F@#$ing 7th Chaos Emerald, next time Episode should have Sonic 3 type special stages.

Yeah, I was always better at the S3&K special stages than the Sonic 1 and 2.  The special stages from the first Sonic game have always been the hardest for me. =P
True dat. I just wish the bumpers could go away anyway I beat the game on the Wii and just need one more emerald.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 12, 2010, 02:26:43 am
I finished the Wii version and have all 7 emeralds. Would you like me to review?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 02:51:11 am
Quote from: "Kori-Maru"
Quote from: "Orta"
Any idea if the Wii version supports the Gamecube controller?
No only Wiimote.

Seriously? There goes the chance to play this game with a half-decent d-pad (and no, I'm not talking about the original Gamecube controller).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 12, 2010, 02:59:51 am
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "Kori-Maru"
Quote from: "Orta"
Any idea if the Wii version supports the Gamecube controller?
No only Wiimote.

Seriously? There goes the chance to play this game with a half-decent d-pad (and no, I'm not talking about the original Gamecube controller).

It's still good to use the Wiimote on that game. By the way, I finally got Super Sonic and made this video for shitz and gigglez.
[youtube:3qxxqi26]kptj7JvNuPA[/youtube:3qxxqi26]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 05:20:28 am
I got the Japanese PSN demo

The graphics are crazy awesome, so clear and bright. Sonic's model looks great too.

I will admit though, the controls feel much different then I was expecting them to. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's defiantly took me a while to get used to the controls.

That said, if you go into the game with an open mind, it's a lot of fun. Much better game than Sonic Rush is. It's just that.. Sonic 4 Episode 1 shares one thing in common with Rush.. the physics =P

When you spin-dash, hold forward on the D-pad / control stick , otherwise you will just stop.
To stop yourself from uncurling on a ramp, jump just at the right moment...

Those are the two most helpful things to know ;3
Oh, and don't be afraid of the homing attack. It's not bad as it sounds.

The game is addicting! My current best time for Splash Hill Zone Act 1 is 1:03:15
Basically, to enjoy this game you have to forget everything you knew about the Genesis games and learn anew =P It's completely different due to the physics. But it's still just as fun.

TLDR: This game plays nothing like the Genesis classics and if you aren’t willing to adjust to the new physics then don’t bother with this game. Just know that you are missing out on a great time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 05:41:27 am
So, Shadi just confirmed my point about this being Sonic Rush HD? Lazy, lazy Dimps.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 05:42:17 am
Quote from: "Orta"
So, Shadi just confirmed my point about this being Sonic Rush HD?
No, it's nothing like Sonic Rush.  I hate the Sonic Rush games.  Only similarity it has with Rush is the physics engine.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 05:45:46 am
Exactly, and that alone is bad news.

[youtube:1g5le952]c_ON9m8hSuw[/youtube:1g5le952]

edit: stupid video
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 05:48:16 am
Obviously it's not "SONIC 4 AS YOU TRULY IMAGINED IT" as Ken Balough would say.  but it's still a fun game once you give it a chance.  I understand that some people might not be able to give it a chance though =P

That's why I said don't waste your time with the game if you aren't willing to adjust to the new physics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 05:50:41 am
I enjoyed Rush, probably more than most people here. The thing is Rush was not called Sonic 4 and was not sold as a return to the roots and the usual blabber.

Couldn't they just use code from the old games? Physics don't age, bros. Sega does lose source codes. :/
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 05:54:52 am
Well, if you enjoyed rush, chances are you will enjoy this.  I say give it a chance =P  Just don't think of it as the "SONIC 4 AS YOU TRULY IMAGINED IT"

The controls are different from Rush, they seem much more stiff.  It takes a while to get used to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 05:56:17 am
Stiff controls? That's a surprise.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 05:58:36 am
Yeah.. a friend of mine who has the iphone version said the iphone controls are loose compared to the controls on the console versions.   Maybe it's an improvement(?) they made.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 09:02:48 am
The average Sonic 4 score looks to be 8.5/10, which is damn impressive.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 12, 2010, 09:56:17 am
Rush was waaaay to loose. I like tight controls.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 10:01:31 am
Very helpful speedrun video:

[youtube:aazpgcez]PrkeyrU3wSw[/youtube:aazpgcez]

40 seconds!!! I totally now get how to improve my own times based on this.
Title: s4e1 = struggle with controls (sort of a review)
Post by: CrazyT on October 12, 2010, 11:00:11 am
So here are my thoughts

The whole game is a struggle with the heavy acceleration and wonky physics. Either you play careful and get stressed everytime you release the d-pad(where normally you would just slow down but here go to a straight halt) or you spam the homing attack and get hit everytime.

But even when you adept to the controls, the controls still feel like a struggle and they stop me from wanting to replay the stages again. While the level design is top notch, the physics and the slow accel just kill the game. Honestly I was against the homing attack from the start, but in this game it feels like a gift. Yeah you can choose not to use it at occations where it's better not to, but s4e1 without a homing attack (forget the enemy bridges) would make the game even worse.

I think the reason for the speed boosters are the physics. I can see the game be even more of a struggle without them. The game would feel slow. Everything in the game where we had been complaining about( homing attack, speed boosters etc) are all there to compensate the bad physics, and you know what? It works, without them this game would feel even worse so there you have it.

I just finished the game and got all the emeralds. The most polished thing in the game are the bonus stages, I loved the bonus stages, they were challenging but also a LOT OF fun, so I give them props for that. What they also nailed in this game is the "classic feel". Immediately when you start at splash hill zone you feel that it is a sonic 4. The visuals are really good, the leveldesign is excellent, my only gripe is that the game is zoomed in too much. I would like to see an overhaul in visuals, keep the detail, but make it look less flat and more alive.

I don't think i'm ever gonna replay the game again. Just thinking about the controls stops me from wanting to play more, but the leaderboard system is pretty solid so for those who have no problem with the controls, I say enjoy.

Overall 6.0

Honestly I don't get the 8's and 9's i'm seeing but i'm also happy at the same time that this game might be a bigger succes because of the scores.

Episode 2 can't come soon enough.


Edit: And I think Shadi is right. Yesterday I played the iphone version and I remember there was a lot more momentum in that game. I remember not pressing the directional keys at all and have sonic go down slopes and through loops easily. In this console version he slows down even before getting to the loop when not pressing direction keys. Rolling in general slows you down. I am not sure because I played the iphone version very briefdly but if someone could confirm this, please do.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on October 12, 2010, 11:07:21 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Very helpful speedrun video:

[youtube:2l57r1dd]PrkeyrU3wSw[/youtube:2l57r1dd]

40 seconds!!! I totally now get how to improve my own times based on this.

shit!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on October 12, 2010, 11:50:14 am
Fuckin shit! I can't beat this thing! Tried once, and I think I have never died that ammount in any Sonic The Hedgehog series game in my whole life!

 They are tricking the players, doing nasty things at the end of each ACT 3 stage just to kill you, like they did in Sonic Rush series. It is HORRIBLE! They have done everything to kill you everytime!

 Everything is fuckin hard! The controls are horrible! Sonic feels like made by paper, and his jump is terrible now! I always jump quickly like in the old games, but in this game he falls down if u do this. It thinks you are doing a homming attack, but IM DONT WANNA DO THAT! I JUST WANNA JUMP TO ANOTHER PLATFORM! STUPID IIZUKA!!

 I got crazy about the physics! Sonic stop running every time... too slow! The music is horrible too. Jun Senoue must die.

 The bonus stage is the cheapest thing I have ever seen on the series!!!


 I have more to complain... later.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on October 12, 2010, 12:35:56 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
Fuckin shit! I can't beat this thing! Tried once, and I think I have never died that ammount in any Sonic The Hedgehog series game in my whole life!

 They are tricking the players, doing nasty things at the end of each ACT 3 stage just to kill you, like they did in Sonic Rush series. It is HORRIBLE! They have done everything to kill you everytime!

 Everything is fuckin hard! The controls are horrible! Sonic feels like made by paper, and his jump is terrible now! I always jump quickly like in the old games, but in this game he falls down if u do this. It thinks you are doing a homming attack, but IM DONT WANNA DO THAT! I JUST WANNA JUMP TO ANOTHER PLATFORM! STUPID IIZUKA!!

 I got crazy about the physics! Sonic stop running every time... too slow! The music is horrible too. Jun Senoue must die.


 The bonus stage is the cheapest thing I have ever seen on the series!!!


 I have more to complain... later.

(http://http://i56.tinypic.com/i6cuo7.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 12:54:35 pm
I'm surprised STORM! is having such great difficulties in beating the game. Are you sure you're using your hands with the controller?

I died just as much as in any other Sonic game, so I don't see how you're encountering this problem. Not sure what sort of tricking is going on in the act 3's. If you mean traps and enemies being "tricks" then yes, Eggman's plan is to kill Sonic so you're bound to be tricked into a trap in any Sonic game.

Your whole third sentence is a mess, but from what I gather Sonic does not control in the same way that he does on the Genesis. Well, it's been well discussed here that he does not. However, within the realm of Sonic 4 it all works (as mentioned in just about every positive review online).

The special stage is hardly cheap. If anything, Sonic 2's special stage is more cheap than Sonic 4 ever was. Tails fucking up your game by slamming into spikes. :P You gotta be careful maneuvering around the bumpers, but that's about it. The time extension balls are wisely placed. Getting all 7 emeralds is a challenge, yes, but then again isn't supposed to be a challenge?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 12, 2010, 12:57:52 pm
Seriously guys, the ones who were complaining about it before are the ones complaining now. Just admit it's a good game. It's not the best ever but it's the first really good Sonic game in 9 years.
Most people are enjoying it a lot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 01:08:10 pm
Funny thing I forgot to mention:

I was playing Sonic 1, 2 and 3 yesterday on my Genesis and had to LOL hard at myself as I attempted to spin dash while playing Sonic 1 and attempted to homing attack in Sonic 3. A week of playing Sonic 4 on the iPhone will do that to you. :P

However I did whip out the Game Genie and made Sonic perform the flame shield attack at all times without the shield equipped. While doing this, I picked up the bubble shield and when combined they acted as a pseudo-homing attack, shooting me forward on a double jump and bouncing when hitting items and enemies. It was pretty cool.

I love my Game Genie. Best birthday present ever.
[youtube:3qqifgjm]aobiKoKt0VM[/youtube:3qqifgjm]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 12, 2010, 01:11:47 pm
(http://http://i52.tinypic.com/2lbnj9y.gif)
Eurogamer.net: 9/10 (http://http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-12-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-i-review)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 01:38:43 pm
Funny how a 4/10 is given to the very expensive to develop Unleashed, while a 9/10 is given to the very inexpensive to develop Sonic 4. Perhaps you can't put a price on fun?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 12, 2010, 01:56:45 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
(http://http://i56.tinypic.com/i6cuo7.jpg)
Holy cow, that's so awesome. xD

Quote
It's not the best ever but it's the first really good Sonic game in 9 years.
2 years. :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 12, 2010, 02:22:38 pm
Quote from: "STORM!"
Fuckin shit! I can't beat this thing! Tried once, and I think I have never died that ammount in any Sonic The Hedgehog series game in my whole life!

 They are tricking the players, doing nasty things at the end of each ACT 3 stage just to kill you, like they did in Sonic Rush series. It is HORRIBLE! They have done everything to kill you everytime!

 Everything is fuckin hard! The controls are horrible! Sonic feels like made by paper, and his jump is terrible now! I always jump quickly like in the old games, but in this game he falls down if u do this. It thinks you are doing a homming attack, but IM DONT WANNA DO THAT! I JUST WANNA JUMP TO ANOTHER PLATFORM! STUPID IIZUKA!!

 I got crazy about the physics! Sonic stop running every time... too slow! The music is horrible too. Jun Senoue must die.

 The bonus stage is the cheapest thing I have ever seen on the series!!!


 I have more to complain... later.

PROTIP: Stop sucking so much. :lol:

Seriously, I got through the whole game and all 7 emeralds in one day. Needs lives? Casino Zone Act 2 will give you tons.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 02:31:54 pm
I can see how Sonic 4 is tricky at the get go, especially with our muscles remembering how to play a classic game, though I can't say that Sonic 4 is a difficult game from start to finish. More like it's different for the first act and then you get it around the end of Splash Hill.

To bring up JSR vs. JSRF again, I remember how bizarre it felt to play JSRF after playing JSR a dozen times through. After a while, JSRF became second nature and I hardly noticed the difference.

Or Chaotix. That game felt so odd when I first played it last year, but after a bit I was running through it as naturally as Sonic 2. Sonic CD, however, I still have yet to get used to that game's spin dash.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 12, 2010, 02:37:54 pm
I think this is out today on XBLA, I might give the demo a run. I doubt I'll buy it though, since I'd rather spend 1200 points on Comic Jumper rather than Sonic 4. I may be surprised and be tempted to pick it up though.

Also, I think it's kinda funny how opinions of professional reviewers/reviews can change so quickly on these forums.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 02:42:45 pm
I demo'd Comic Jumper and it was damn pretty, but the first level was very bland (dozens of the same enemy saying the same handful of phrases). Let me know if it's worth a buy, Mademan! Maybe things pick up after the demo gameplay.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 12, 2010, 02:48:57 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I demo'd Comic Jumper and it was damn pretty, but the first level was very bland (dozens of the same enemy saying the same handful of phrases). Let me know if it's worth a buy, Mademan! Maybe things pick up after the demo gameplay.

I haven't actually played the demo of Comic Jumper yet, but I had faith in it after Splosion Man was probably the best Arcade game I'd played, and one of my favourite platformers ever. I hope Comic Jumper doesn't dissapoint, but I'll report back either way.

Come to think of it, I want to get CJ, Castlevania Demo and Sonic 4, my HDD might need to have more stuff deleted....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 12, 2010, 02:51:37 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I think this is out today on XBLA, I might give the demo a run. I doubt I'll buy it though, since I'd rather spend 1200 points on Comic Jumper rather than Sonic 4. I may be surprised and be tempted to pick it up though.

Also, I think it's kinda funny how opinions of professional reviewers/reviews can change so quickly on these forums.
According to SEGA:
"Sonic 4 will launch for XBLA tomorrow when Microsoft updates everything - we'll let you know if we hear the specific time!"
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 03:05:31 pm
Yeah, I'm at 3.5gb left on my 20gb drive. I need to pick up a 16gb USB stick at some point, but I need to find one that doesn't have a blinking light. I had a 1gb stick in the 360 and that thing was flashing like crazy when accessing data.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 12, 2010, 03:43:12 pm
I think most do. There are some nice ones on Newegg.

I have about 60gbs on my PS3.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 04:59:37 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Seriously guys, the ones who were complaining about it before are the ones complaining now. Just admit it's a good game. It's not the best ever but it's the first really good Sonic game in 9 years.
Most people are enjoying it a lot.

It's an average game. I have played it. I will say one thing. The strange mine cart was the best thing that could have happened to this game. More soon, if I bother.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 12, 2010, 05:14:01 pm
It's fun. I have played it.
Average is something that leaves you indifferent. Sonic 4 puts a stupid smile in my face. It's a good game.. Not out of this world, but accessible, quick-paced and fun. Just like the old ones..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 12, 2010, 05:17:24 pm
@Orta: Did you play the iPhone version? Cuz that is the only one with the true Strange Mine Cart stage. Do bother! Say more soon! Thats what the forums are here for  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 12, 2010, 06:06:15 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Average is something that leaves you indifferent.

If so then I have to state that, from what I played, the bad topped the good by a light year or two.


Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
@Orta: Did you play the iPhone version? Cuz that is the only one with the true Strange Mine Cart stage. Do bother! Say more soon! Thats what the forums are here for  :afroman:

Actually, Lost Labyrinth Act 2 is one of the best Sonic stages I have memory of playing. Fuck the mine cart, long live this stage. The rest though... Eh, I'll leave it for after I beat the game. I didn't play the iPod version because I don't have access to it. I played it on Wii.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 12, 2010, 06:16:46 pm
Game up on US store, via search. Search Sonic 4 and you get the full game and demo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 12, 2010, 06:42:04 pm
Quote from: "George"
Game up on US store, via search. Search Sonic 4 and you get the full game and demo.

Darn it, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get it. I was hoping that I would be able to play it today.  :cry:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 12, 2010, 07:22:39 pm
Got to try it, the way the game "feels" is much worse than I thought, especially for someone that plays the classics occasionally. Even after getting used to it, I still don't like how it feels, Sonic kinda feels too "heavy", and then there's the physics (spinning being slow, losing momentum while not pressing the directional button).
The game is not too bad, but it's not a worthy sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. My personal score is somewhere around the 5 to 6 range (in a 0 to 10 scale).

It might sound that some of us are being a bit too harsh with the game, but imagine if SEGA made a sequel to the Adventure series, Sonic Adventure 3, and in the end it played like Sonic Unleashed Wii without the boost. It wouldn't be a bad game, but it's something the Adventure fans wouldn't be happy with.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ManagedCorn on October 12, 2010, 07:57:00 pm
I loved it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 13, 2010, 12:53:28 am
Man, look at all of these mixed opinions... :|

If only this game weren't $15, I wouldn't be so on the fence right now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 01:01:36 am
I'm sitting up waiting for it to hit XBLA.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 13, 2010, 01:18:37 am
I don't like the Jumping, I wish it was faster, but other than that its really nice. Oh and the homing attack works perfectly in the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 13, 2010, 02:29:26 am
Jumping and accelerating is weird.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 02:49:21 am
Bah, it's not on the uk xbla store yet.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 03:07:43 am
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Bah, it's not on the uk xbla store yet.

Hurr hurr I'm Monkeroony and I'm actually up at a decent hour disappointed the game isn't up.  Unlike Mengels who is up at 4:07EST bored out of his fucking mind waiting for the damn game to come up.  AREN'T YOU SPECIAL!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 03:42:37 am
Haha, that's a shame!
Where the hell is it?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 03:45:53 am
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Haha, that's a shame!
Where the hell is it?

I've heard 5AM EST is a common time for XBLA stuff to get released.  We'll see soon...Otherwise I'm giving up for the night.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 03:48:37 am
Okay, is that in 15 minutes?
I would have thought it would be up by now!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 03:49:29 am
Yes, usually stuff becomes available at 10am our time.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 03:50:34 am
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
Okay, is that in 15 minutes?
I would have thought it would be up by now!

Lookin' at 10 minutes now.  I resisted pirating the Wii version all day just so I could blow $15 on this ripoff "Episode 1" bullshit.  I should probably stop recollecting about how long and epic and awesome Sonic 3 & Knuckles was.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 03:55:12 am
I'll admit it does seem a tad overpriced. One more stage with three acts would make this good value, especially ad there are no new bosses.

7 minutes to go, here's hoping.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 04:17:57 am
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-AU/games ... 258410a07/ (http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-AU/games/media/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258410a07/)

Tell it to download the trial.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 13, 2010, 04:27:03 am
50'67 on Splash Hill Act 1 PS3.

Doubt I can do better. It was a perfect run for me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 04:39:49 am
Thanks!
I couldn't get the trial but I have the full game downloading now!

I love this site, get to play it before work.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 06:45:12 am
downloaded it this morning! the game definitely trumps the iphone version. the reworked stages are great improvements and the wheel-o-feet coming sooner really makes things feel "right". if the iphone version was a B, the console version is a solid B+. SEGA could easily earn an A in my eyes with episode 2 if they make a few changes and additions.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 13, 2010, 06:53:50 am
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
I'll admit it does seem a tad overpriced. One more stage with three acts would make this good value, especially ad there are no new bosses.

7 minutes to go, here's hoping.
Yeah I definatly agree with this. 4 zones just aren't enough. I couldn't help but get this empty feeling after finishing the game so quick. It makes the "experience" less special and memorable that way. I would be really dissapointed if they made every episode with just 4 zones. That would end up a 45 dollar game with 12 zones whereas you can find full new retail games that make full usage of the console hardware with 10x more content for around the same price.

I spoke to Ken Balough about this point and he said that he was gonna look into it and suggest it to the development team.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 07:18:01 am
If they include Tails in episode 2 and provide lock-on with episode 1, that would definitely boost episode 1's value. It would be like getting 8 new zones in a sense, as you'd be able to play SHZ, CSZ, LLZ and MGZ in a whole new way. I'd prefer that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on October 13, 2010, 08:48:36 am
 One question before I start complaining again: why the heck I have to had download the demo version instead the full version of it?

 The demo came with the full game inside, but had to buy the key to open it fully.

 I think this is another awful thing. What if I had no space on my HD to the full game but had space for a demo?  :|
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 08:55:37 am
All XBLA games operate this way, no need to blame Sonic 4 for doing what every XBLA title is required to do. I believe PSN operates the same way.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 13, 2010, 09:24:27 am
Quote from: "STORM!"
 One question before I start complaining again: why the heck I have to had download the demo version instead the full version of it?

 The demo came with the full game inside, but had to buy the key to open it fully.

 I think this is another awful thing. What if I had no space on my HD to the full game but had space for a demo?  :|

It's so that you can download the demo, and then just pay for the unlock code if you want the full game.  You're downloading the entire game in the beginning.  They just lock out the content.

I've been enjoying Sonic 4 so far.  Some of the stages are giving me a bit of a hard time though. Shooting for those Chaos Emeralds.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on October 13, 2010, 09:45:40 am
 Then why they does operates this way?

 Oh, now I see I was playing demos from not PSN exclusive games ;ppp

 But, wait, I bought TRINE without downloading the demo...  :|

 Sonic Adventure I bought fully too! Well, there are no demo for it though.

 Back to Sonic 4, it has too much zoom. I wanted a wider view of the stage. Nice idea about locking EPISODE 2 with 1 and more characters playable. I was never, NEVER against others characters playable. I like most of them.

 But still not happy and satisfied with Sonic 4. It is surely the worst on the series. The enemies (badniks in USA?) does not fits too much with each zone. Like Sonic World Adventure, the lack of a large variety of enemies is sad.

 Mad Gear Zone is also the worst of the whole series! I can't see the shit platform thanks to the background graphics.

 The best thing on this game is the homming attack and that cards gimmick on ACT 2(?) of CASINO STREET ZONE.

 More to complain later ;p
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 10:33:58 am
I just beat the game, that last boss is one tough cookie. The difficulty curve is way off track, this beast is near impossible to beat next to other bosses. I am thinking of writing a proper review next week, after my exam. In the meantime, I'll list some things I like about the game so you won't accuse me of being a biased son of a bitch.

- The special stages are very nice, and for once Iizuka remade something in a decent way. The easy factor is there and so is the infuriating factor, just like in the old days.

- The strange mine cart. As I said, it was the best thing that could happen to this game. The stage that replaced it is the best in the whole game and I can even stand its music. I particularly liked a certain part of the stage which kind of made me think of the barrel in Sonic 3. Who played through Lost Labyrinth Act 2 will understand me. I didn't have the chance to check out the actual mine cart level. I don't know if I want to.

- Most of the speed boosters are useless, I do not know why they are there. Even with the piss poor physics, if you go towards a loop at a decent speed you'll go past it with no problems.

- The homing attack will never make sense in a 2D Sonic. However, I think it works taking into account a big chunk of the game was designed to take advantage of it. I also like how they did not make it simple to spam as well. In bosses however, using it actually makes Sonic bounce backwards to safety which makes matters even easier. Unrolling Sonic in mid air to force you use the homing attack is also cheap as hell, as are enemy bridges (I saw far too many, and failing usually led to the abyss). tl;dr It works but it's not fun, it gives the game an auto-pilot feel, there is a section where it actually broke the game for me [spoiler:1miu3x0p]if you must know, it's near the end of Casino Street Act 2, with the flipping cards. I was timing the jumps like I would do in any other Sonic but the game would register them as homing attacks which lead me quite a few times into the abyss[/spoiler:1miu3x0p].

Ken Balough is listed in the credits as "Associate Digital Brand Manager". I thought he was a "producer"? Also, I am anxiously forward to seeing a full playthrough of this game without using the homing attack. lol, optional.

P.S.: What the fuck is with the spin dash sound? Didn't they have time to change a couple of file names? There's no need to mess around with code, anyone who uses a computer could do it.........
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 11:06:17 am
To all the speed runners, check out the new thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=659 (http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=659)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 11:19:28 am
Reading bitchy comments is one thing, but seeing it live is hilarious:

[youtube:1bj3aclw]f6-1cGzPn3E[/youtube:1bj3aclw]

Sorry, but 11 minute youtube video rant is just pathetic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 11:53:03 am
Pathetic? Maybe. But that guy took the time to make a decent comparison and the video really speaks for itself. It's more evidence that Takashi Iizuka is out of his mind. He should watch that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 13, 2010, 12:02:41 pm
I must confess that I like the Metal Gear music!

There's one mantis at the top ofa ramp in the first Metal Gear zone that is there just to make you lose rings, I know now to aim left and hit the spring board but it is very annoying!

I am happy with this game, overall I think it is a bit overpriced but it is fun and cashes in heavily on nostalgia.

I do think they played it a bit too safe though, the levels are very similar in look to Sonic 1 and 2, the badniks are all reused and the bosses are just lazy.

I also think the game gives away too many 1ups, I get about 3 per level sometimes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 12:03:37 pm
Quote from: "Monkeroony"
I also think the game gives away too many 1ups, I get about 3 per level sometimes.

It's Sonic Team's way of appealing to Mario fans. :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 13, 2010, 12:04:49 pm
I finally got the Untouchble Achievement and 4th place on EGG Station Zone. That stage was a bitch.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 12:09:34 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Pathetic? Maybe. But that guy took the time to make a decent comparison and the video really speaks for itself. It's more evidence that Takashi Iizuka is out of his mind. He should watch that.

I agree that it was very cool to see the comparison, and it does validate the hardcore physics complaints, however his attitude towards the previewer being either an idiot or someone who have never played the classics is what made me dislike the video. It's the asshole "anybody who thinks differently is an idiot" mentality.

But yeah, anywho a reply made on Sonic Retro of all places sums up my thoughts on those who pick apart the physics:

Quote
I can tell Dimps and SEGA did put effort into this title. From what it seems to me, at the beginning, I don't think they realized how big of a deal physics would be to the fanbase. By the time they figured this, it was too late, as apparently making the necessary changes to the engine would require entirely remaking it, and in the end, remaking the game.

I have to say Mad Gear Zone is a prime example of how they put effort into this game. Awesome level, almost regardless of the physics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 13, 2010, 12:20:24 pm
Mad Gear Zone was my favorite one. :3
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 12:25:09 pm
The cog act specifically was my favorite. I love cogs and gears.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 12:42:37 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Quote
I can tell Dimps and SEGA did put effort into this title. From what it seems to me, at the beginning, I don't think they realized how big of a deal physics would be to the fanbase. By the time they figured this, it was too late, as apparently making the necessary changes to the engine would require entirely remaking it, and in the end, remaking the game.

I have to say Mad Gear Zone is a prime example of how they put effort into this game. Awesome level, almost regardless of the physics.

It's a fair point. There is effort there, even I have to admit that. However, I think "too late" is now that the game is out. The coming episodes will certainly be based on the same technology used to make the first game. That includes the poor physics, sadly.  

Working as an actual developer (read programming) in the video game industry requires a fairly good knowledge of physics. That was Yuji Naka's job back in the day and I think we can all agree he is a very good programmer (I mean, NiGHTS engine hello?). If I am not mistaken (please correct me), Iizuka was always more on the art side of things. I can see him not bothering with something like this as much as someone like Naka would. Beside that, the complaints about physics aren't new. I don't think I would be exaggerating if they go as back as Sonic Advance 2.

They never listen to the right fans. Their only concern is having Sonic make out with princess chicks.  :P  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2010, 01:03:07 pm
God you guys and physics. Who gives a shit that they aren't the same? It plays just as good. Playing it right now. Sweet and maybe harsh opinions later.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 01:14:56 pm
It doesn't play "just as good". As a game by itself, Sonic 4 is fine. But being Sonic freaking 4, it's not fine. What are you on again? The games play somewhat differently. Turn on your Mega Drive and see for yourself.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 13, 2010, 01:16:25 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
God you guys and physics. Who gives a shit that they aren't the same? It plays just as good. Playing it right now. Sweet and maybe harsh opinions later.
In my opinion it doesn't play nearly as good as the classics, but it's still a fun game though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 01:21:35 pm
I actually enjoy Sonic 4 more than Sonic 1, at least when I'm not wearing my nostalgia glasses. Mainly because I am wired to use the spin dash, and it's absence from Sonic 1 really brings the game down for me. However, Sonic 1 with the spin dash in Sonic Jam is a much better experience.

edit: it probably doesn't help that I know Sonic 1 inside and out, but Sonic 4 is all new to me. Nothing like the fresh unknown!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 13, 2010, 01:29:35 pm
The homing attack is corrupting you from the inside, Barry.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 01:34:13 pm
Homing attack is a metaphor for life. If you see something you want, go directly at it as fast as you can. Destroy it if you have to, as long as you get it. That's what matters. Sonic sez.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 13, 2010, 01:54:35 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I actually enjoy Sonic 4 more than Sonic 1, at least when I'm not wearing my nostalgia glasses. Mainly because I am wired to use the spin dash, and it's absence from Sonic 1 really brings the game down for me. However, Sonic 1 with the spin dash in Sonic Jam is a much better experience.

edit: it probably doesn't help that I know Sonic 1 inside and out, but Sonic 4 is all new to me. Nothing like the fresh unknown!
I think there's only 3 things I completely hate about Sonic 4 gameplay wise, which are jump losing momentum when the player stops holding the dpad, spinning (not the spin dash, the sonic 1 spin) being nearly useless due to it being so slow (I used that spin alot in the classics), and the uncurling.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 13, 2010, 02:19:44 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I actually enjoy Sonic 4 more than Sonic 1, at least when I'm not wearing my nostalgia glasses.
I'm not surprised. I don't like Sonic 1 much even with the nostalgia effect. A lot of its stages are boredom endurance rounds.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 13, 2010, 02:38:37 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I agree that it was very cool to see the comparison, and it does validate the hardcore physics complaints, however his attitude towards the previewer being either an idiot or someone who have never played the classics is what made me dislike the video. It's the asshole "anybody who thinks differently is an idiot" mentality.

How about the "Anybody who thinks differently is just a whiner" mentality? Not pointing you you specifically, but there are two sides of this coin. People who support this game seem to ignore a lot of complaints and just rub it off as the person having a whinge.

In any event, I still haven't played it, so I  can't really contribute too much.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 03:05:20 pm
Eh.  This was not worth staying up so late for.  It was not worth $15 either.  Maybe $5.  And it still isn't as fun as Sonic 3.  It doesn't feel right.  The stages are poorly designed as well.  And why am I fighting the same bosses I already beat years and years ago?  And the same enemies?  Sonic doesn't look cute or cool, he looks dumb.  I wish Sega had just taken the Mega Man 9 approach.  Fuck this.  I'm more excited for Sonic Colors somehow.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 13, 2010, 03:14:51 pm
A video that shows well some of the problems with Sonic 4 ep1 physics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyzC3Rse5Gg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyzC3Rse5Gg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 03:28:18 pm
Now THAT'S how to do a physics comparison video!

However, I think episode 2 will do fine without a massive revamp. Perhaps upcoming software updates can tweak things that irk the picky fans.

I liked this comment from TSS's message boards:
Quote
In all seriousness though, I'm enjoying myself so far, even if the final boss is proving to be a bitch. No, the physics aren't right, but I honestly haven't encountered anything even close to gamebreaking, especially things like standing on loops and walls and such. Of course, this may be more due to me being a newer fan, and while I appreciated the classics, I'll take a game where fun is king. I think this is the case with Sonic 4, its just a fun, working game to play. Flawed, but damn fun.

Of course, I'd like to see the physics changed solely so that the ones alienated by this Episode can join in the fun. They're missing out on a good game here, which is a crying shame. And if a physics change can really make the game even more fun, then I am all for it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 13, 2010, 03:35:20 pm
I always wonder why so many people have problems with sonic 1. I honestly love it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 03:42:34 pm
I love Sonic 1, however I feel I was spoiled by the spindash and xxxtreme speeds of Sonic 2 and the epic plot of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Going back to it after those, it's still an excellent game. But it feels slower and Sonic feels underpowered without all his later moves.

Still, I probably play through Sonic 1 more than any other Sonic game just because the zone progression is so natural.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 13, 2010, 03:44:59 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Now THAT'S how to do a physics comparison video!

However, I think episode 2 will do fine without a massive revamp. Perhaps upcoming software updates can tweak things that irk the picky fans.

I liked this comment from TSS's message boards:
Quote
In all seriousness though, I'm enjoying myself so far, even if the final boss is proving to be a bitch. No, the physics aren't right, but I honestly haven't encountered anything even close to gamebreaking, especially things like standing on loops and walls and such. Of course, this may be more due to me being a newer fan, and while I appreciated the classics, I'll take a game where fun is king. I think this is the case with Sonic 4, its just a fun, working game to play. Flawed, but damn fun.

Of course, I'd like to see the physics changed solely so that the ones alienated by this Episode can join in the fun. They're missing out on a good game here, which is a crying shame. And if a physics change can really make the game even more fun, then I am all for it.
About that quote, I have to say, even after getting used to the physics, I still didn't like them, but, everything else was quite fun  (except the repetitive final boss music).

Now to wait until christmas for me to actually get a wii and the game for myself (plus Sonic Colours). :<
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2010, 04:58:59 pm
NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO
I WAS AT THE LAST BOSS WITH IN MY LAST LIFE WHAMMIN THAT BITCH. SUDDENLY THE FLOOR FALLS DOWN. WHY MEEE WHYYY!!

Btw, great game. I'm having so much fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2010, 05:05:13 pm
I just watched a video. [spoiler:3niuye2k]That's the fucking final blow? Seriously? That's fucking hardcore.[/spoiler:3niuye2k]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 13, 2010, 08:20:34 pm
I'm stuck on the Boss of Mad Gear :(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 13, 2010, 08:56:56 pm
Quote from: "Mengels7"
I wish Sega had just taken the Mega Man 9 approach.  

I am actually really, really glad to see that Sonic 4 isn't like Mega Man 9. I hated what Mega Man 9 did to the classic Mega Man series. Sonic 4 keeps elements of the modern games while also paying tribute to the older games, something Mega Man 9 did not do in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 13, 2010, 09:05:12 pm
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
I am actually really, really glad to see that Sonic 4 isn't like Mega Man 9. I hated what Mega Man 9 did to the classic Mega Man series. Sonic 4 keeps elements of the modern games while also paying tribute to the older games, something Mega Man 9 did not do in my opinion.
The logical flaw with your complaint is that there had been no "modern" games in the original Mega Man series. The previous game was for PS1 - ancient history in gaming terms.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 13, 2010, 09:08:11 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
The logical flaw with your complaint is that there had been no "modern" games in the original Mega Man series. The previous game was for PS1 - ancient history in gaming terms.

True, but it just felt like a step backwards for the series. I loved Mega Man 7 & 8 more than the first three. In terms of game play I thought  the Mega Man games became more fun with each installment.
If they hadn't called the game "Mega Man 9" it probably wouldn't bug me as much.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 13, 2010, 09:25:41 pm
I get what you're saying Cosmic, Mega Man 9 is like if Sonic 4 resembled Sonic 1 or 2 (I'm talking full on 16-bit pixel art recreation, almost looking like a well implemented hack) and completely ignored what Sonic 3 did in evolving the look of the series.

If I wasn't aware of the series history and that the 9th game was a deliberate de-evolution of the graphics, I'd think the following progression of images were sorted wrong:

6:
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/Mega_man_6_gameplay.jpg)

7:
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Mega_man_7_gameplay.jpg)

8:
(http://http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/2/20658-94741-MegaMan8jpg-468x.jpg)

9:
(http://http://wii.kombo.com/images/media/1885/megaman9_070308_13250.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Mengels7 on October 13, 2010, 10:36:47 pm
Well I loved Sonic 3.  It could have aimed for just a tad above that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 14, 2010, 01:08:54 am
Sonic 4 has some great stuff and some stuff that needs to improve. I don't like how to pick up speed you have to do a homing attack.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 14, 2010, 05:56:50 am
In this Canadian Thanksgiving season, I must say that I am thankful for checkpoints in the final boss fight in this game.

Edit: Just beat it :D.  Honestly, the more I play this game, the more I like it. I really can't wait for news on Episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 14, 2010, 07:14:28 am
I'm working on obtaining the 7th Chaos Emerald. Those bumpers in the Special Stage keep throwing me off. =P Once I get Super Sonic and see the true ending I'll post my full thoughts on the game, but thus far I am absolutely loving it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 14, 2010, 07:24:53 am
First unboxing video!
[youtube:mzc9x43h]cKdl0GRYYfI[/youtube:mzc9x43h]

(actually this guy was just nice enough to download my Sonic 4 boxart and make a fake unboxing, he gets my approval)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: matty on October 14, 2010, 07:42:51 am
Quote from: "George"
Sonic 4 has some great stuff and some stuff that needs to improve. I don't like how to pick up speed you have to do a homing attack.
Makes me wonder what Sega might have in mind when they said that they will take in fan feedback to improve in the future installments... or episodes.
I can see this as rolling the ball out the door, let it get momentum and then really start to kick as the series goes on - at least, I hope that's how it's going to turn out.

I don't mean to be a Nasty Nate as I haven't tried the game out, yet, but I'm not really diggin' the music. Anyone else feel the same? It's a minor nitpick (actually, the biggest one as I don't mind the change in physics at all), but part of the charm for me with these games is the soundtrack and... damn  :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on October 14, 2010, 09:05:29 am
I just purchased Sonic 4 this evening and am loving every moment of it.

I noticed a lot of my friends from here on XBOX live have already completed the game. I decided to make a promise to myself that I would only play one zone a day to stretch that 15 dollars.

I absolutely love redoing the levels and trying my best to beat my old times and scores. I even have decent rank-ins at the moment. I will try to stay at the top 100 for some levels just to make myself feel special. Kind of like what I did when I played Outrun Online Arcade.

Man, the end of this year is really shaping up to be a good SEGA year for me. I got Bayonetta, Afterburner Climax, Sonic 4, and soon Crazy Taxi HD. Aww man, it finally feels good to spend money on download only games.

edit: I can't believe I forgot Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing. XD
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 14, 2010, 09:46:56 am
I felt the soundtrack is fitting and actually pretty catchy after a while.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 14, 2010, 10:09:10 am
I keep forgetting to give the custom soundtrack feature a spin! Gonna play a few Sonic 4 remixes as well as some Sonic 1-3 tunes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 14, 2010, 10:26:30 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I keep forgetting to give the custom soundtrack feature a spin! Gonna play a few Sonic 4 remixes as well as some Sonic 1-3 tunes.

Toss some Sonic R music in there, and you'll be all set :D.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 14, 2010, 11:57:55 am
I find it odd that so many folks are iffy on buying it because of past episodic games being canned after the first episode (i.e. Penny Arcade). I'd think it's pretty clear that Sonic 4 has sold well and unlike other episodic games, Sonic 4 has a big company behind it. It definitely is not an indie release. There's no way SEGA would spoil things by stopping at episode 1, especially after the reviews.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 14, 2010, 12:20:59 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I felt the soundtrack is fitting and actually pretty catchy after a while.

I too am really liking the soundtrack. Casino Climax is one of current favorites. I love the music in that stage. The only piece of music I felt was lacking was the final boss music, not because it wasn't cool, I just felt it looped too quickly for a boss encounter of that length.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 14, 2010, 12:46:56 pm
But the final boss music has a rocking riff there. Very nice.

The most disappointing piece of music I believe to be the Special Stage theme. It's just the old one heavily-modified and overall very boring.
The invincibility power up could be a bit more catchy too.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Monkeroony on October 14, 2010, 01:55:34 pm
I like the music for the bosses, mad gear zone and the casino zone.
I could leave the rest of the music.

It's been a good Sega year for me too thinking about it.

Sonic and Sega All-stars racing
Sonic Adventure
Sonic 4
Afterburner climax
and most likely Vanquish and Chu Chu rocket.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 14, 2010, 02:09:20 pm
So, some of you are actually saying a 10 second loop that runs for at least 6 minutes is good music? kk
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 14, 2010, 02:24:35 pm
Are you basically saying the music in Sonic 1-3 isn't good? They are also looped.
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I find it odd that so many folks are iffy on buying it because of past episodic games being canned after the first episode (i.e. Penny Arcade). I'd think it's pretty clear that Sonic 4 has sold well and unlike other episodic games, Sonic 4 has a big company behind it. It definitely is not an indie release. There's no way SEGA would spoil things by stopping at episode 1, especially after the reviews.
(http://http://gamestyle.com/media/images/games/screenshots/dc-shenmue-220710-04.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 14, 2010, 02:37:18 pm
Ouch. :(


But they wouldn't do the same thing twice!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 14, 2010, 02:58:01 pm
Quote from: "George"
Are you basically saying the music in Sonic 1-3 isn't good? They are also looped.

I am saying the final boss music actually lasts for 10 seconds and is fucking atrocious. I had to mute the TV otherwise I would go mental.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 14, 2010, 03:04:36 pm
Oooh boy! I just saw the ending with all seven Chaos Emeralds and I'm now super pumped for Episode 2!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Shigs on October 14, 2010, 03:31:13 pm
All 7 Emeralds and finished the game? You deserve a Metal!  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 14, 2010, 04:06:46 pm
The last emerald is being rather annoying....
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 14, 2010, 04:20:12 pm
That was uncalled for George...

But if you think about it, they did release the second Shenmue. So they must release at least Ep2 of Sonic4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 14, 2010, 04:26:45 pm
Quote from: "SOUP"
The last emerald is being rather annoying....

It is a bit tricky. The one I had the most trouble with was the fourth one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 14, 2010, 04:46:21 pm
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
Quote from: "SOUP"
The last emerald is being rather annoying....

It is a bit tricky. The one I had the most trouble with was the fourth one.
Tell me about it.. I'm stuck there. I got right next to it then hit some shit and lost lol
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 14, 2010, 07:20:38 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
Quote from: "SOUP"
The last emerald is being rather annoying....

It is a bit tricky. The one I had the most trouble with was the fourth one.
Tell me about it.. I'm stuck there. I got right next to it then hit some shit and lost lol

It's the bouncing into the auto fail that pisses me off. If I'm running out of time, I can at least restart, and avoid playing through another level to get to the bonus stage.

On a side note: I know this may not be a popular opinion, but I'm really enjoying the homing attack.  Especially as a way of course correction in mid-air.  This comes in really handy when fighting the final boss.
I also really love that card level in the Casino Zone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 14, 2010, 07:28:25 pm
Quote from: "SOUP"


On a side note: I know this may not be a popular opinion, but I'm really enjoying the homing attack.  Especially as a way of course correction in mid-air.  This comes in really handy when fighting the final boss.

Yeah, I've also found the homing attack to be really fun in this game. There is just something very satisfying to me about chaining together your hits like that.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 14, 2010, 09:57:37 pm
I don't mind the homing attack, as long as episode 2 doesn't have any more pointless enemy bridges. ._.
The air dash (homing attack without target) is kinda a cheap way of gaining speed, but in Ep1 it's actually useful and sometimes compensates for the weird physics and Sonic's slow acceleration, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 15, 2010, 03:36:18 am
Here's the review frm TeamXbox:
8/10 (http://http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1880/Sonic-4-Episode-1/p1/)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 15, 2010, 07:57:16 am
Something cool I found out:

[spoiler:14tm2kig]after defeating the E.G.G. Station boss, you return to Splash Hill for the pre-credits finale. Sonic is running on auto, however the player can control his jumps. Collect all the rings and get a alternate pose for the finale. Some speculate that you also have to complete the boss run with no hits, but I can't confirm if that is required as well.[/spoiler:14tm2kig]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 15, 2010, 08:02:21 am
(http://http://i54.tinypic.com/2r7pkc8.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Suzuki Yu on October 15, 2010, 08:21:19 am
i just got the untouchable achievement  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 15, 2010, 08:59:51 am
Quote from: "Suzuki Yu"
i just got the untouchable achievement  :mrgreen:

Congrats!!
[youtube:3mqu5cnd]heSos2pk8Ko[/youtube:3mqu5cnd]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 15, 2010, 10:11:07 am
Quote from: "Suzuki Yu"
i just got the untouchable achievement  :mrgreen:

Congratulations! You got skills!  8-)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 15, 2010, 11:52:57 am
I like basically everything about this game, graphics, level designs, most music tracks... Sonics green eyes and even the Homing Attack.

But the Way Sonic controls needs to be fixed. I understand what people mean by you have to hold a direction to get the physics to work and its very jarring at first. You can get used to it but I dont want to have to...

I hope this is fixed along with the uncurling for Episode 2 because here is a fantastic sonic game with a few irritating problems that keep it from being a masterpeice like the classics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 15, 2010, 12:12:46 pm
^yeah!

In episode 2, it would be cool If they could make it so that what happens when you hold in the direction that Sonic is moving also happens when not holding in that direction (especially when on land or when coming off of diagonal springs). However I wonder if that could break the episode 1 zones, in that they were designed with the current system in mind.

Maybe it would be possible to have the episode 2 changes that work in episode 1 to carry over, while episode 1 breaking changes are left exclusively to the episode 2+ zones. Removing uncurling would not break episode 1, however removing physics based on d-pad direction probably would break it.

What I wonder is what they would do if Tails and Knuckles are allowed to play episode 1 stages in the future. Would they tweak the enemy placement so Tails and Knux could come off a slope and fly/glide in areas where Sonic does his homing attack? Knux could manage as his knuckles act as badnik killers, but Tails would probably have to have the air badniks removed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 15, 2010, 03:03:58 pm
Tails' stretching arms homing attack confirmed for episode 2!

I laughed when I saw MadeMan's pic.
Funny that I managed to do the same thing on Sonic 2, EXCEPT Sonic was still in a vertical orientation hovering the air like a boss.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 15, 2010, 06:28:40 pm
I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the graphics?  They look like a step above flash but that's it. No background animations.. Overall very flat, dull, and repetitive. They are not Sonic style either.

I don't think the physics are that terrible they just change the feel of the game to something less fluid.  In light of that I think homing attack actually belongs there.

I'm fairly positive on the game because it's pretty decent for what it is which I suspect was kind of a test and experiment by Sega, and coming off of the likely commercial success of Sonic 4 future Sonic 2D title will be more.

What is the timetable for Episode 2 release?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on October 15, 2010, 09:36:37 pm
"No Background animations"
Besides Water ripples, flashing lights, a ferris wheel, scrolling cogs and machinery...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 15, 2010, 09:54:14 pm
Quote from: "Suzuki Yu"
i just got the untouchable achievement  :mrgreen:

Good job sir :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 15, 2010, 11:54:54 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
"No Background animations"
Besides Water ripples, flashing lights, a ferris wheel, scrolling cogs and machinery...

You forgot microscopic bees having sex.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 16, 2010, 12:07:58 am
Quote
You forgot microscopic bees having sex.
...Charmy...?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 16, 2010, 12:27:47 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote
You forgot microscopic bees having sex.
...Charmy...?
wut? I've never heard of that species?

Sometimes Neogaf is funny:
Quote
Agree that the physics suck but its the graphics and music sucking too that has me jaded. No effort went into this game.

Feels like it was made by people who didn't even play the originals. Like it was programmed in a sweat shop with child labor in India or somewhere. Showed their child artists some YouTube footage of Sonic 2 levels and they were told to recreate it.

Against.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Kori-Maru on October 16, 2010, 02:16:23 am
Quote from: "Suzuki Yu"
i just got the untouchable achievement  :mrgreen:
Good job. Your not the only one, I got it in just a day. So are we the only two that has the achievement.

And Barry, about the ending. [spoiler:20khp7qo]Yes, after you get all the rings during the ending sequence and have all the emeralds Sonic will turn in to Super Sonic and does a pose.[/spoiler:20khp7qo] I also got the whole Sonic suit. If you guys want to know when the rings come up, it's Bottom, Bottom, Middle, Bottom, Top, Middle, Top and BOOM! You get the different pose and the Sonic hat as a avatar award.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Alex Supersonic on October 16, 2010, 03:18:25 am
just finished the game, it was quite difficult at the end!

overall I would give the game a 8.5, really enjoyed it

looking forward to episode 2
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 16, 2010, 09:10:07 am
Beat E.G.G. Station this morning! Great boss. Yeah yeah, he's a retro HD remix but still looks awesome on the big screen. Also, its a great fight in that there are no cheap shots. A good fair (but difficult) fight.

Now to get those emeralds. I have 3 on the 360 version and 5 on the iPhone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: ezodagrom on October 16, 2010, 09:30:25 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Beat E.G.G. Station this morning! Great boss. Yeah yeah, he's a retro HD remix but still looks awesome on the big screen. Also, its a great fight in that there are no cheap shots. A good fair (but difficult) fight.
Except the final attack, where the platforms fall, that one is kinda a cheap shot...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on October 16, 2010, 09:44:28 am
So far I've been able to stick to my promise to myself that I'd play one zone only a night. I managed to get all 7 chaos emeralds before I even get to the final zone. All that's left now is to beat the game.

I'm having a ton of fun with this game :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2010, 01:51:55 pm
Been playing the ipod and ps3 versions. The game is much more forgiving on the ipod. That's nice :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 16, 2010, 02:17:38 pm
The iPhone version feels like a Saturn port to me (not saying that is a bad thing) mostly because the graphics remind me of the iPhone version of Pandemonium which itself is a Saturn game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2010, 05:04:57 pm
That is some wicked correlation you got there Barry!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 16, 2010, 05:23:58 pm
Ive finished the game multiple times now... It's just as fun as the classics for me.

The only problem I ever had with this game is the way the physics seem to only work when you are holding a directional button... But as soon as i was used to this which took a few minuites I've had nothing but fun with it.

The level designs are fantastic, each level has its own gimmicks, there are plenty of paths and hidden stuff.

When I get a chance I think Im going to do a write up for what I want changed and improved in Ep.2 There are quite a few things but don't get me wrong the game is a blast.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 16, 2010, 05:51:55 pm
I played the Ipod version today. Sorry, but both the strange mine cart and the pinball levels are utter shit (especially the pinball). Oddly, and as people mentioned, gameplay feels a lot smoother than the console version. I would definitely prefer it if I had proper buttons to play the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2010, 06:27:01 pm
A friend of mine, oblivious to the controversies, came to me and said "thanks for recommending me Sonic 4! I totally LOVE the minecart level (iphone)!"

my face
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 16, 2010, 06:54:01 pm
After a full completion of the game I can say that I absolutely love it!
The level designs are excellent and make each and every stage unique and lots of fun. I think my favorite stage would either be Lost Labyrinth Act 2 or Mad Gear Act 1. The bosses are quite cool as well. I like how they are reminiscent of older battles, but there are enough new things to make them fresh and exciting.
Also loving the music. There are some pretty neat tunes in Episode I.
So overall I have really enjoyed Sonic 4: Episode I and I shall await very eagerly for Episode II. I'm sure it's gonna be a blast!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 02:29:15 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
A friend of mine, oblivious to the controversies, came to me and said "thanks for recommending me Sonic 4! I totally LOVE the minecart level (iphone)!"

my face

Two friends of mine came to me and said "Sonic 4 is shit". My face? :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2010, 03:22:26 am
Damn I need to get more easily-influenced friends.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 17, 2010, 03:51:58 am
None of my friends play Sonic. They seem to think the new Fifa is pretty good though. So, theres that...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 05:45:30 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Damn I need to get more easily-influenced friends.

Actually, I didn't even tell them the game was out, they downloaded it from Xbox Live. Perhaps you need friends with eyes.

My face. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 17, 2010, 09:38:53 am
Sonic 4 is far from shit, it's a fun but has its flaws when stacked up against 1-3. You want shit Sonic games? G Sonic, Sonic Labyrinth, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic '06. Those are shit, Sonic 4 is not. :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2010, 09:46:05 am
You know what's funny? There was a sequel in the Megadrive. Remember Sonic 3D? Yeah Sonic was much shit back then. Sonic 4 is great.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 17, 2010, 10:35:24 am
SHZ act 1: Clocked in at 0.54.62!!!

About halfway through my run, I missed a bubbles and fell to the lower part of the level. Despite this, I somehow was able to move through the bottom faster than the top! 35G is mine!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 10:40:04 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Sonic 4 is far from shit, it's a fun but has its flaws when stacked up against 1-3. You want shit Sonic games? G Sonic, Sonic Labyrinth, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic '06. Those are shit, Sonic 4 is not. :)

Perhaps if it was not called "Sonic 4" people wouldn't react to it like that. It's called Sonic 4 but plays too much like the Rush series. TSSZ's review almost made me give up on writing my own since it's pretty spot on about my feelings towards the game before and after playing it (he even mentions PR disasters). Like them or not I think it's worth a read.

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/10/16/revi ... -xbox-360/ (http://www.tssznews.com/2010/10/16/review-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1-xbox-360/)

I swear I never spoke to people about this game outside the forums (why would I want to advertise something I have such a bad opinion of anyway?). That said, one of the first things my friend pointed out was the fact he was able to pull a spin dash with Sonic on a nearly horizontal position. That cracked me up, and then I asked if he noticed the spin dash sounds are wrong. He said he didn't notice. He also referred to the homing attack as "noob attack", which also cracked me up for obvious reasons.

"Shit" might be an overstatement but, to be honest, "good" doesn't really apply to Sonic Rush Remake HD. What is worse is that it becomes clearer each and every time I play it.

Quote from: "crackdude"
You know what's funny? There was a sequel in the Megadrive. Remember Sonic 3D? Yeah Sonic was much shit back then. Sonic 4 is great.

Not only it wasn't a sequel, the music in that game is way better than Sonic 4's. What is your point?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2010, 10:56:27 am
it was as much as a sequel as S&K. Why isn't S3D cannon? Oh yeah, cause it sucks bawllz. Have you played it? That's my point. Sonic 4 is great. Back then Sega was ruining Sonic already.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 17, 2010, 10:56:50 am
The game may be fun, but it is flawed imo. As a sonic 4, getting negative reception from literally almost everywhere is a failed attempt. I'm not talking about the reviews, i'm talking about general players like us all. Normally it's a game gets bad reviews and user scores are high, with sonic 4 it's the other way around. What blows my mind  though is that they didn't have to call it sonic 4 to test out a 2d game on the consoles, it just seems for a company to use one of their well known good games and bring it out as a low budget and an unpolished game.

Are there other game companies that do this?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 11:07:53 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
it was as much as a sequel as S&K. Why isn't S3D cannon? Oh yeah, cause it sucks bawllz. Have you played it? That's my point. Sonic 4 is great. Back then Sega was ruining Sonic already.

If Sonic 3D is as much of a sequel as Sonic & Knuckles, then Sonic CD, Chaotix or even Shadow or Black Knight are too. I have played it and I take offence from remarks such as those. I don't talk about things I know nothing about unlike many people here. Sonic 4 is not great, it's average, and nobody said Sega wasn't fucking up back in the day.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 17, 2010, 11:10:44 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
it was as much as a sequel as S&K. Why isn't S3D cannon? Oh yeah, cause it sucks bawllz. Have you played it? That's my point. Sonic 4 is great. Back then Sega was ruining Sonic already.

You are making utterly no sense.  It's not because it "Sucks bawllz" it's because it's absolutely not intended to be a sequel at all. It did not even involve any of the usual Sonic Team members, do you want to know why SEGA greenlit it? It's exactly the same reason why they made Sonic Spinball, Sonic Team was busy already making NiGHTS and they would have no Sonic games available for the Christmas period, so they had Sonic 3D made.

I realize you want to justify Sonic the Hedgehog 4's existence and want to put it on a higher pedestal, but do not start to make up what accounts for misinformation. An entry into the series it was, but a main entry? Certainly, Sonic 3D, it was not.

And please, Sonic may have had a few bad games then, but at least there was no abomination like Silver the Hedgehog back then. The series was much better off then than it is now, even if that was about to change thanks to Sonic 4 and Colours. At least back then not every review openned with "Sonic games these days suck, but how does this game fare?"
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 17, 2010, 11:43:11 am
Quote from: "Orta"
"Shit" might be an overstatement but, to be honest, "good" doesn't really apply to Sonic Rush Remake HD. What is worse is that it becomes clearer each and every time I play it.

Oh come on now, the game hardly plays like the Rush series. Classic 1-3&K gameplay rules apply to Sonic 4 (act structure, special stage access, boss structure, visuals, storyline). Sonic 4 doesn't have Nega, Blaze, tricks, boost, a free roaming ocean, 3D circular stage bosses. Rush Remake? No f-ing way. Sonic 2 Remix HD? Much more fitting a label.

"Shit" is an overstatement. As for "good":

GamesRadar: 9/10
SPOnG: 86%
PSM3 magazine: 8.2/10
IGN: 8/10
IGN UK: 8/10
RunDLC: 4/5
Game Informer: 8/10
Eurogamer: 9/10
XGN.nl: 8.5/10
1up: B
totalvideogames.com: 9/10
gamers daily news: 8/10
Game Reactor 8/10 (editor in chief review)
ONM: 88% (WiiWare)
NintendoLife: 8/10 (WiiWare)
Nintendo Power: Recommended (WiiWare)
SEGABits: B (iPhone)
AppSpy: 4/5 (iPhone)

Sounds pretty fucking good to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 17, 2010, 12:01:08 pm
After consulting with a team of PhD's in Oxford and Cambridge it was concluded that the visual style fails to reflect the ideals of early 90's gaming subculture.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 12:03:45 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh come on now, the game hardly plays like the Rush series. Classic 1-3&K gameplay rules apply to Sonic 4 (act structure, special stage access, boss structure, visuals, storyline). Sonic 4 doesn't have Nega, Blaze, tricks, boost, a free roaming ocean, 3D circular stage bosses. Rush Remake? No f-ing way.

How is this related to gameplay directly influenced by a physics engine straight out of Sonic Rush? It is what it is.

Quote
Sonic 2 Remix HD? Much more fitting a label.

I really don't disagree. I cannot agree as well since some people here might kill me because I put Sonic 4 in the same league as Sonic 2...

Quote
"Shit" is an overstatement. As for "good":

GamesRadar: 9/10
SPOnG: 86%
PSM3 magazine: 8.2/10
IGN: 8/10
IGN UK: 8/10
RunDLC: 4/5
Game Informer: 8/10
Eurogamer: 9/10
XGN.nl: 8.5/10
1up: B
totalvideogames.com: 9/10
gamers daily news: 8/10
Game Reactor 8/10 (editor in chief review)
ONM: 88% (WiiWare)
NintendoLife: 8/10 (WiiWare)
Nintendo Power: Recommended (WiiWare)
SEGABits: B (iPhone)
AppSpy: 4/5 (iPhone)

Sounds pretty fucking good to me.

I read a few those reviews. Most of them knew little about what they were talking about. Using reviews from an industry such as this hardly proves a point, I would expect better from anyone posting here given the kind of score Sega's games usually get because they do not have hype machines pushing them.

Not long ago we had Sonic Unleashed which wasn't as bad as the list of scores I could post says. I could also post a number of bad reviews Sonic 4 got. It's good to know Sega's new "Metacritic above all else" mentality is catching up here. Posting review scores is a new low. Sigh.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 17, 2010, 12:13:35 pm
Posting review scores a new low? Whatever. Please don't say that shit to me. I've read a good majority of them, they all knew what they were talking about, they all deem the game as "good" and that was the point I was trying to prove. That the game was "good", not "shit".

I like you Orta, I respect that you personally didn't enjoy the game, but I don't appreciate being told that I've stooped to some kind of "low".

If the argument in question here is: Is the game good, or shit? I sure as hell can't call it shit as it is a step up from a number of the previous games, I can't call it mediocre because I and many others genuinely had a fun time playing it. Could I call it excellent? No, it has areas that need improvement. But is it good? Yes, it's good. Why is it good? Because it is fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2010, 12:28:05 pm
trollface.jpg

in this thread I post a lame joke and everybody gets irritated, Barry shows good scores and overall great reception to a supposedly "doomed" series and the fans say it's shit, and a number alone is enough for a good game to turn disappointing and bad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 17, 2010, 02:12:55 pm
Barry, chances are when you are old you'll have arthritis in your fingers from all of this typing. Do you really want waste some of your precious finger time arguing with someone that had decided he was going to hate this game way before he played it?

The critics and the sales will speak for themselves, they already are.

There are of course problems with Sonic 4, but it is still a very fun game and most people that haven't heard of this whole debate have enjoyed the game. As have many who did follow the debate.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 02:17:15 pm
Sharky, who decided he was going to love this game way before he played it, has spoken. Keep it up, bro. Sonic Team 4 life.  

[youtube:14ddrsuv]j28QjSOajyQ[/youtube:14ddrsuv]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 17, 2010, 02:26:47 pm
Jesus, so much negativity here. The game isn't bad. It isn't as good, with physics as the originals. But I think tons of people ignore the good things of the game just cuz of this.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 02:27:48 pm
Quote from: "George"
Jesus, so much negativity here. The game isn't bad. It isn't as good, with physics as the originals. But I think tons of people ignore the good things of the game just cuz of this.

I made a post about the things I found good about the game but I was properly ignored.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 17, 2010, 02:31:36 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
The critics and the sales will speak for themselves, they already are.

I hope you are not using that as a methodology to judge quality? There have been many games that some of us do not like, be it Halo, Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty, that fall under that, are you willing to say all of those games are great quality thanks to critical and commercial success?

And lest of all, Sonic Heroes got good reviews and sold over 6 million, however most would rather forget that game ever happened.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2010, 02:35:32 pm
I don't remember Sonic Heroes being bad AT ALL.

It just wasn't great.. But neither were the reviews. It got 7s. It was good. Hated the ending but it was fun.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 17, 2010, 02:39:44 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I don't remember Sonic Heroes being bad AT ALL.

It just wasn't great.. But neither were the reviews. It got 7s. It was good. Hated the ending but it was fun.

Lightspeed dash didn't work, tonnes of bottomless pits, terrible bosses, lame gameplay, etc ask most people who are not hardcore Sonic fans and I'll think you'll see a lot of them do not like Sonic Heroes at all.

Especially the Chaotix's gameplay, such a horrible idea.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 17, 2010, 02:47:35 pm
I'm surprised people are jumping on reviews to prove their point, when in the past the same forum members have been attacking professional reviewers for being incompetent and bias.

Do we think that GTAIV is better than Shenmue now because the Reviews and Sales reflect this?

I don't mind people liking this game, but falling on reviews as an argument is really puzzling, and weakens your stance as a whole. Don't forget when people were arguing with me that Half-Life was a 'bog standard' shooter, I could have just said 'look at sales and reviews' and it would have shown it was insanely high rated and sold incredibly well too.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 17, 2010, 04:13:31 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Sharky, who decided he was going to love this game way before he played it, has spoken. Keep it up, bro. Sonic Team 4 life.  

No, I desided that half of the 'problems' with this game are either not completely fucking retarded, like character model, green eyes and such and that the homing attack is at worst not that big of a deal and at best a pretty damn good addition.

And that, worse... Half of the things that make this game 'shit' to people like you would simply be small problems in an otherwise great game had this not been called 'Sonic 4'.

Hell, I was raving about how Sonic Team are shit years before most of you. So please don't give me that 'sonic team fanboy' tripe. But I'll happily give Sonic Team credit where it is due... and in turn not shit on them when the game is developed by Dimps... =|

Not to mention I just made a bloody long list of things I don't like about Sonic 4. What more do you need?


Also I am more shocked that suddenly reviews are not even worth mentioning anymore... What is this shit now? Sure SOMETIME reviews can be off, sometimes games like GTA4 may score more then Shenmue...

But I seriously doubt anyone here hasn't mentioned review scores in regards to quality of games before, when a vast majority of reviewers give a game the same kind of score you can usually give them the benifit of the doubt.

Hell, we have a review score thread stickied on this very forum with plenty of people replying, using and adding to it all the time.

At the end of the day Sonic 4 got a lot of good reviews, some bad ones. Are we now going to discredit all of those good reviews because sometimes we don't agree with reviews?

I would have loved to see this game get tons of shitty reviews just for the same people saying they're pointless now jumping on them to prove their point.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 17, 2010, 04:48:11 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
No, I desided that half of the 'problems' with this game are either not completely fucking retarded, like character model, green eyes and such and that the homing attack is at worst not that big of a deal and at best a pretty damn good addition.

Not once I complained about things related to art. Even after playing the game, I still don't know what to think about the art. The single thing I TRULY HATE about Sonic 4 is the music. The homing attack would be a proper addition if it was a reward like some sort of elemental shield, or an unlockable, not a permanent move that was created to aid aiming in 3D games.

[youtube:2cnzjxt5]z9RaaQoHJu4[/youtube:2cnzjxt5]

When even Iizuka says players "can easily and comfortably bounce off the heads of the enemies" in 2D games and "that really is part of the fun", the inclusion of the homing attack becomes even more difficult to understand. At best it stupidifies the game or, as I like to say, appeals to Mario fans.  

Quote
And that, worse... Half of the things that make this game 'shit' to people like you would simply be small problems in an otherwise great game had this not been called 'Sonic 4'.

Exactly. People feel the series (and by series I mean 1-3&K) is not being given the respect it deserves. What we got is what ultimately feels a bit of an half assed job trying too hard to be "classic". While it gets some things right, it fails at a number of basic things that made the original series some of the best platform games ever. It's fun? Fair enough, but calling it Sonic 4 does not feel right, because I enjoyed the hell out of Sonic Rush and I think that game is good for what it is. If it's called Sonic 4, then I have to judge it for being Sonic 4, and not Sonic Something. And remember, I never said the game is shit, I called it average. It's ironic that the "lesser game" (Colours) is shaping up to be much better in many ways, and that does not make sense in my head. Just because I'm vocal, it doesn't mean I'm the only one with that opinion. I once again point everyone to TSSZ's review.

Quote
Hell, I was raving about how Sonic Team are shit years before most of you. So please don't give me that 'sonic team fanboy' tripe.

:lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CosmicCastaway on October 17, 2010, 05:03:32 pm
(http://http://katyshops.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/100_0093.jpg?w=490&h=367)
Please don't fight. =(
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 17, 2010, 05:16:49 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Also I am more shocked that suddenly reviews are not even worth mentioning anymore... What is this shit now? Sure SOMETIME reviews can be off, sometimes games like GTA4 may score more then Shenmue...

But I seriously doubt anyone here hasn't mentioned review scores in regards to quality of games before, when a vast majority of reviewers give a game the same kind of score you can usually give them the benifit of the doubt.

That's never been the case here though, we've always talked about how gaming journalism is not good enough, I got into a fight from someone from IGN on the SEGAnerds forums about it for pete's sake. I'm sure the majority of the community has been against some reviewers, the very same guy who gave Sonic the Hedgehog 4 it's score on IGN is the same guy who trashed Unleashed without playing it full. The fact is though when you have places like GamesRadar that accepts bribes then it's very hard to take this industry seriously at all.

I mean if we want to go down that route, are you ready and willing to accept Nintendo is the far better developer and publisher than SEGA and have made many more games worthy of high apperciation than SEGA (Thereby justifying the amount of shit SEGA has gotten) and that games like Sonic and SEGA All-stars Racing, amongst others, deserve their low scores? Because I'm not. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not going to end up being my GOTY.

Quote from: "Sharky"
I would have loved to see this game get tons of shitty reviews just for the same people saying they're pointless now jumping on them to prove their point.

I do not think people would have, they would have just played the game and come to their own conclusion. I did not (Nor Orta) get interested in Sonic Colours because a previewer said it looked good, we got interested in it because we thought it looked good.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 17, 2010, 05:29:30 pm
@Orta

Sonic has had the homing attack in all Sonic games since what Sonic Adventure? Why would they remove it now? When it actually makes the gameplay flow much better (imo)... There is no good reason why Homing Attack isn't a great addition. uncurling is a bad addition it actually breaks the flow of gameplay, can be a hinder and just looks pretty shit. There aren't real good reasons why homing attack is a bad addition, just like the Spin Dash. This is simply a matter of opinion. Is this what makes me a Sonic Team fanboy?

I find some of the music to be pretty crap, some are so-so and some of it to be just as good as the classics. Is this what makes me a Sonic Team fanboy?

Finally, had Sonic Chronicles been called Sonic 4 I would take issue... Had Sonic Riders been called Sonic 4 I would take issue. (And yes before anyone starts this shit, if Shenmue Online was called Shenmue 3 I would take issue.) But for every part of Sonic 4 that isnt as good as the classics theres another 3 that hit the nail on the head... Sonic 3 is, to me at least nowhere near as memorable or good as Sonic 2... Does that make it not good enough to be a 'classic'? Or is that only dictated by time between each installment?
Does this make me a Sonic Team fanboy?

I'm having trouble understanding what exactly made me this Sonic Team fanboy, Until Sonic 4 I haven't baught a single Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 2... Is that what makes me the fanboy?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 17, 2010, 05:40:28 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"

That's never been the case here though, we've always talked about how gaming journalism is not good enough, I got into a fight from someone from IGN on the SEGAnerds forums about it for pete's sake. I'm sure the majority of the community has been against some reviewers, the very same guy who gave Sonic the Hedgehog 4 it's score on IGN is the same guy who trashed Unleashed without playing it full. The fact is though when you have places like GamesRadar that accepts bribes then it's very hard to take this industry seriously at all.

I mean if we want to go down that route, are you ready and willing to accept Nintendo is the far better developer and publisher than SEGA and have made many more games worthy of high apperciation than SEGA (Thereby justifying the amount of shit SEGA has gotten) and that games like Sonic and SEGA All-stars Racing, amongst others, deserve their low scores? Because I'm not. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not going to end up being my GOTY.

I'm not saying that I'm now a big fan of the critics and trust the reviews I read on a regular basis...

But you did touch on something that I see in a very different light. You are right there is a level of bias towards some companies in the industry. There will be critics that give Nintendogs a 10/10 becuase its Nintendogs for example.

There are also some that would give Sega games lower scores then I feel they deserve. No big conspiracy, just critics that have favourites... Not that hard to believe?

Which is why I take every good Sega review as a small victory... When I see good Sonic reviews. Well blow me the fuck down! So in an industry where everyone and their mother wants to shit on Sonic... Sonic 4 getting mostly 8's and some 9's I take as a great sucsess.

You know why this is happening? Because critics are judging the game on its own merits... Which is what critics are supposed to do. And no matter which way you swing it most people find it to be a very fun, good game that brings back the memories of their youth. Somthing I couldnt say for most Sonic games recently. Dispite the problems it might have.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 18, 2010, 02:22:30 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
You know why this is happening? Because critics are judging the game on its own merits...

Just playing Devil's Advocate, but couldn't it also be because they are just getting caught up in the hype of the name and the fact that it's 2D?

For the record, I do think that Sonic 4 is probably a fine game, and I've always said that I think reviewers are generally in the right ball-park at least.

Having said that, I still don't think i'll buy it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 18, 2010, 08:05:50 am
I agree that going by one or two reviews is never a good way to form a general consensus on whether a game is good or bad, and that hype can skew some reviewers to give a game a positive rating (see Sonic Unleashed). However I just want to point out that when I posted all those positive reviews, it wasn't as if I was skimming the net for them, picking and choosing what would best support my argument. Those are pretty much the reviews as they poured in. For every negative to mixed Sonic 4 review that I came across, there were about three to four positive ones. Even when looking at the mixed reviews, they were generally positive about the game, but brought the score down due to length, price or physics that admittedly were said to not be game breaking at all. Just different. So that's why I put Sonic 4 in the "good" category. That and because my own review fell right in line with the general reviewer consensus for the game, and remember that I wrote one of the first Sonic 4 reviews so it wasn't as if I was basing my rating on what was generally being said. That was all legit Barry scoring.  8-)

I remember not to long ago on these very same forums, a certain Platinum Games release was being called "shit" by two certain forum members and review scores were used by proponents to back up the goodness of the game. I didn't see anybody being called out for citing reviews back then. Just saying.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 18, 2010, 02:42:26 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I remember not to long ago on these very same forums, a certain Platinum Games release was being called "shit" by two certain forum members and review scores were used by proponents to back up the goodness of the game. I didn't see anybody being called out for citing reviews back then. Just saying.

I can't remember if this is concerning me or not, but like I said, I always thought that reviewers were generally (generally being the operative word) correct. So if it was me, then I wasn't really being out of character.

I just find it strange when Sharky and Crackdude (Can't remember if you have done it much though Barry) used to bash reviewers at every opportunity, but changed their tune when Sonic 4 was doing well with them.

As I said though, the game is probably good, but I'd rather play Comic Jumper.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 18, 2010, 03:11:45 pm
I tend not to discuss reviews much outside of this topic. The only time I really get into reviewer bashing is when it concerns the few who are notorious for "hate rating" a game simply because they don't like SEGA or have a vendetta against a certain series. Considering I was out of the current gen video game world from 2003-2009, buying bargain bin games a few years after they hit shelves, reviews really didn't mean too much to me until just recently. Even then, I just read reviewers who I trust, and IGNore the rest.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on October 18, 2010, 03:56:12 pm
Yeah, I really don't get why people bash reviewers
LOLZHAVEZFUNZ

That isn't really the case when you have to shell out 60 big bucks on a product.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 18, 2010, 04:34:19 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Yeah, I really don't get why people bash reviewers
LOLZHAVEZFUNZ

That isn't really the case when you have to shell out 60 big bucks on a product.
Then don't.
Buy used or pirate or something. Play a demo.

Normally I get a demo, if not I try to pirate. And if I like it, I buy it...used (except for Sega usually). Play lots of stuff, pay less, fuck reviews.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 18, 2010, 06:42:24 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I just find it strange when Sharky...

When... I'm the person that has been making the 'good Sega game reviews' sticky thread for the past 2 years now.

There ARE reviewers I don't like, GameInformer and GameSpot for example... But I've never been one of these 'Don't listen to reviews' people... Ever.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 18, 2010, 06:49:23 pm
So much hate in this thread. We have differing opinions and that is OK. Lets brace each other.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 19, 2010, 07:59:25 am
So I've started a playthough of the iPhone version with minimal homing attack use.

First number is how many homing attacks were done
Second number is how many required homing attacks there were
Third number is how many times I suffered damage from a bubbles chain

SHZ Act 1
SHZ Act 2
SHZ Act 3 [2] [1]
SHZ Boss  

CSZ Act 1
CSZ Act 2
CSZ Act 3 [2] [1] [1]
CSZ Boss  
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 19, 2010, 09:58:25 am
Interesting research Barry.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 19, 2010, 10:12:28 am
Hey barry, there's a member at the sega forum who is trying to prove finishing the game without the Homing attack. He managed to do those first 3 splash hill acts without using the homing attack, he did use the airdash however. See the result:

[youtube:3me9ddqp]_gq35LAuOQg[/youtube:3me9ddqp]
[youtube:3me9ddqp]uxUIFDfvo6c[/youtube:3me9ddqp]
[youtube:3me9ddqp]it-_kdTba5g[/youtube:3me9ddqp]

Also check out his thread: http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?3 ... ional-quot (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?349131-Project-quot-Homing-Attack-is-Optional-quot)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 19, 2010, 10:23:36 am
cool vids and links! Thanks!

Though he does use the HA about 5 times in the last video, he does it in that way that makes it look like Sonic just happened to become a ball. I'd argue that is a HA, but hey, if he sticks to using that through the whole game then it's all good. Not a "no HA run", but still impressive.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 19, 2010, 10:50:26 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
cool vids and links! Thanks!

Though he does use the HA about 5 times in the last video, he does it in that way that makes it look like Sonic just happened to become a ball. I'd argue that is a HA, but hey, if he sticks to using that through the whole game then it's all good. Not a "no HA run", but still impressive.
Those are airdashes I think. He times them exactly when he's a little bit under the enemys when the HA stops locking on and than airdashes. Which is sort of an attack the first sec it's used and than it becomes vulnerable.

Don't know what you mean exactly but maybe you asociate the airdash with the homing attack. I'd agree with that since homing attack minus lock-on has always been an airdash. Not everyone thinks that way though
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 19, 2010, 12:18:55 pm
Beating the game without the homing attack is impossible thanks to the flying cards in Casino Night Act 2. It's that stupid.  :roll:

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So I've started a playthough of the iPhone version with minimal homing attack use.

Not using the homing attack has caused me to hit whole enemy bridges automatically. It's a bit hard to explain, I don't even know if it's some sort of glitch or if it's an actual move since it happened more than once. I hit the first enemy with a regular attack and, for some reason, Sonic just advanced towards the others. I was wondering if that happened to you.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 19, 2010, 12:50:02 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Not using the homing attack has caused me to hit whole enemy bridges automatically. It's a bit hard to explain, I don't even know if it's some sort of glitch or if it's an actual move since it happened more than once. I hit the first enemy with a regular attack and, for some reason, Sonic just advanced towards the others. I was wondering if that happened to you.
Happened to me on the PS3 a few times. Don't know how I did it, but it was pretty cool.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 19, 2010, 01:13:56 pm
Yeah, it actually happens a lot in that third video CrazyTails posted. What happens is that if you are near an enemy, but not above them, the HA won't trigger (which is the correct way for it to work). Rather you'll do a usual air dash, but if you're near enough to the enemy you'll hit them in a moment of aerial spin attacking and the momentum of jumping forwards continues to the next enemy, and then to the next.

It's actually quite a cool reward for those who time it right. Considering it looks so cool and isn't game breaking, I'd call it less of a glitch and more of a 1337 move.

I have it happen quite a bit when I time it right, but it always happens to me in the second to last chain of enemies in CSZ act 3.

bopbopbopbopbop!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 19, 2010, 01:22:27 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Not using the homing attack has caused me to hit whole enemy bridges automatically. It's a bit hard to explain, I don't even know if it's some sort of glitch or if it's an actual move since it happened more than once. I hit the first enemy with a regular attack and, for some reason, Sonic just advanced towards the others. I was wondering if that happened to you.

I've pulled it off a few times in the first act of Lost Labyrinth Zone.

I played a bit of Sonic Advance this morning, and the more I played, the more I appreciated everything they did in Sonic 4.  Spikes popping out of the floor everywhere you would normally stop, and bottomless pits a plenty.  Also, after playing Sonic 4, Sonic feels really loose and floaty in Sonic Advance.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 19, 2010, 01:35:24 pm
Sonic 4 also has it's share of bottomless pits. Every game since the first one has really. It's trademark.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: matty on October 19, 2010, 04:05:08 pm
Well, I played the demo. Can't say I really enjoyed the first act - sorry, the HA is something that I can do without, but maybe it's one of those things you have to get used to after a while. I'll consider getting the whole game when it goes on sale, though.

Quote
Lets brace each other.
George, I think quite a few of us were doing that already - that is, unless you meant embrace  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 19, 2010, 08:06:50 pm
I've been using that HA move people are talking about to get slightly better times on levels. I find it works best when you are just under the first enemy of the birdge.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 19, 2010, 11:04:10 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sonic 4 also has it's share of bottomless pits. Every game since the first one has really. It's trademark.

Some, sure. Usually around parts where you've actually got to pay attention to your platforming. The slower bits of the levels.  Sonic Advance has them all over the place.
Sonic 4 has a decent amount of them, but they make sense where they are.  Just saying the usage of them has greatly improved since then.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 20, 2010, 11:54:29 am
Oh definitely SOUP.
In fact, I love Sonic Advance 1 and 2, but the bottomless pits are quite annoying. They are too many and some are very cheap. Even more troubling taking into account it's a portable game, which usually makes people less concentrated.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 20, 2010, 07:38:07 pm
TSS's other writers weigh in:
http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/20 ... ment-44862 (http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/2010/10/sonic-4-episode-1-second-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-44862)

I totally am with T-Bird.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 20, 2010, 09:44:42 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Oh definitely SOUP.
In fact, I love Sonic Advance 1 and 2, but the bottomless pits are quite annoying. They are too many and some are very cheap. Even more troubling taking into account it's a portable game, which usually makes people less concentrated.

Yeah, still good games. I really haven't put too much time into 3, but I've got it kicking around here.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Tad on October 21, 2010, 06:51:17 am
Having just finished the game, I'm happy with it. The physics are different, but I adapted to them quite quickly. I actually like the homing attack. It's probably the best thing the new Sonic games have given the series. Sonic 4 is just a mash up of older games, I still enjoyed it. The game feels a lot like the old sonic games, and has all the markings off the classics to go with it. Some find the graphics a bit tacky, while i'm on the other side of the argument. There bright, colourful and make each location stand out.

The bosses are a little easy, and the don't require much effort to defeat. Personally, I found the last boss to be the only challenging one in the game. Some found the last boss cheap, and too difficult. Again, I found it challenging, but certainly not as difficult as people make out. Replay value comes in the form of getting all the emeralds and beating the game in record time. Although personally, I had fun just replaying the game the game without the timer. The addition of selecting each stage at your own free will makes the game more fun, as you can go back and play any act that you wish whenever you want.

I hope episode 1 does well, cause that will lead to episode 2 -- which I'm sure will have new stages/acts completely different from the old classics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 21, 2010, 08:03:04 am
lol:

(http://http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2217/s3ramp.png)

Oh wait, sorry, forgot we're not allowed to lol at the classics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 21, 2010, 08:23:10 am
That happens an awful lot more on Sonic the Hedgehog 4 than it ever did in the classic Sonic. I think you're also overlooking the regularity of the issue.

Onto the Sonic Stadium article, much I dislike Brad's cynicsm, and boy can he really be annoyed about some of the stuff, he is spot on with his assestments. If people want to defend Sonic the Hedgehog 4, defend it on it's own merits, but not when it goes up against the original Sonic games, as it's not designed on a gameplay level to be like the classic titles.

As I said in the other topic, enjoy a fan speedy platform that has a good amount of speedrunning potential, but if people complain about the lack of proper momentuam, they are free to, as this is Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 21, 2010, 12:01:00 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
That happens an awful lot more on Sonic the Hedgehog 4 than it ever did in the classic Sonic. I think you're also overlooking the regularity of the issue.
Lol Aki must have skipped Sonic 2.

It only happened one time in Sonic 4. Happens an awful lot in Sonic 2.
And if you want animation and collision detection bugs look no further than jumping in Sonic 1's Marble Zone.

Never cared about these bugs before, am not caring now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 21, 2010, 12:20:28 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Lol Aki must have skipped Sonic 2.

No offense, but I think I may have played my favourite game of all time slightly more than you ever have to know it's pros and cons.

And having weird physics that gives you sticking on walls ability on a regular basis is not one of them.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 21, 2010, 12:40:20 pm
Is it really fair to try and defend a major and very common issue with just a portion of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to extremely rare occurrences in any Sonic game released from 1991 to 1994?

Next people will try and point out how the steam in Lava Powerhouse Zone from Sonic Spinball does not work as good as the steam from Mad Gear Zone.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 21, 2010, 01:12:51 pm
Sometimes I tend to read comments that freak me out, but I get the impression that over the course of these last two weeks, this game has gone from Sonic's glory days to this being essentially Sonic 2006 2D version.

I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 21, 2010, 01:28:24 pm
I wouldn't take the shift too seriously, max. A large number of people are enjoying the game (as evidenced by the sales figures and reviews), it's just that those who aren't enjoying it are being so loud and aggressive about it (see NeoGAF and Sonic Retro). Those who like it but say that it has room to improve in episode 2 aren't being so loud and aggressive about it as, well, they don't really see it as necessary. The game sold well, SEGA more than made a profit and now they'll listen to the level headed comments and develop episode 2 to appeal to more of the fans. By episode 3 I'm certain we'll have something more resembling what many fans wanted.

Sonic '06 was a huge downturn, Sonic 4 Episode 1 is an upturn. Just not as huge of an upturn as many hoped for. Though, in my opinion, considering the current state of the current Sonic Team I consider Sonic 4 Episode 1 to be much more of an upturn than I expected. I can play through it and actually enjoy it! No game killing glitches, no cheesy plot, no Silver or Shadow! And it's all in HD in my living room, not confined to a portable device like the past 16 years.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 21, 2010, 05:48:19 pm
"Regular basis"? You talk like if it happened 2 outta 3 times Aki. It happened to me ONCE cause I accidentally used HA against a loop. My point was it also happaned occasionally in he old games, as it does.

Thing is you see.. I don't care about this bullshit. Seriously, there is some nitpicking at it's finest going on on this thread.

So the physics are different. So what. The game's as fun as Sonic 2D as always been on home consoles. Only true complaint I have is that it's too short, but then again it's just a third of it all.


~~
It is clear that the ones that are lynching the game are the ones that were bashing it before it even came out. That's surprising coming from usually open-minded users.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 21, 2010, 06:57:07 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
Sometimes I tend to read comments that freak me out, but I get the impression that over the course of these last two weeks, this game has gone from Sonic's glory days to this being essentially Sonic 2006 2D version.

I hope I'm wrong.

That's what happens when you incorrectly fuel the hardcore fans with hopes, they get burnt and they will make sure they are heard. SEGA should never have bothered aiming for those people.

I think Sonic the Hedgehog 4 greatly missed the mark and I am actually wondering how much effect some bad press might have on the overall sale, but Sonic will sell millions anyone, Shadow the Hedgehog sold over 2 million, Silver sold over a million and I'm sure this game will easily pass whatever goal SEGA has in mind.

Quote from: "crackdude"
"Regular basis"? You talk like if it happened 2 outta 3 times Aki. It happened to me ONCE cause I accidentally used HA against a loop. My point was it also happaned occasionally in he old games, as it does.

Just because it happened once to you does not mean it has not happened plenty of times for hundreds of people and going from a lot of response from fans, it has occured. I've never fallen through the fall in Sonic Adventure, however this does occur.

And occasionaly happens? No it does not, if it did, people would be complaining about it in the old games. The original Sonic Team was far far more talented than Dimps was and it shows in the engine. It's much easier to break this engine than the original Sonic games.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Thing is you see.. I don't care about this bullshit. Seriously, there is some nitpicking at it's finest going on on this thread.

So the physics are different. So what. The game's as fun as Sonic 2D as always been on home consoles. Only true complaint I have is that it's too short, but then again it's just a third of it all.

You do not care about it, but some people do. Simply because you do not care about it people should not voice their opinion? Look at some of the other topics here, I do not mind some people complaining about Yakuza. Yes I will entertain them in a debate but at the end of the day, I will not be bothered if they do not happen to like the series or game. I'll try to convience them otherwise, but if not oh well.

I think you do care a bit too much about this bullshit actually.

Quote from: "crackdude"
It is clear that the ones that are lynching the game are the ones that were bashing it before it even came out. That's surprising coming from usually open-minded users.

I do taste a great bit of irony since the ones who wanted to like this game before it was released, actually like this game. Two can play at that game and it's particularly easy for us on the other side.

As for close minded users, names names!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 22, 2010, 02:32:25 am
Hey, I'm trying not to bash the game much, considering i haven't played it yet. I will say I think it's overpriced (although I'm mellowing on that a little bit too), and that it seems like it's made some fundamental changes though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 22, 2010, 12:21:26 pm
I played it. I was wrong all along. I'll admit, even from the beginning I knew I would like it just a bit but not love it, but everything changed when I first started playing the demo.

I hate it. Homing attack is honestly the least of my worries now because the physics are complete garbage. Anyone who says it is similar or even close to the originals either does not know what they are talking about or are just lying altogether.

[youtube:2a507nfz]-nDRsjiXiMo[/youtube:2a507nfz]

I am literally sitting here now just straining myself to think of one really nice thing to say, but can only come to the conclusion that I kind of like the third act of Splash Hill Zone's music, even if it is really low quality and should be like a minute longer. Sonic 06 hurt me that Sonic Team would make such a terrible product and really angered me that SEGA would release such a game, and while this is way better, this really goes so much further with just the 4 in the title. Fuck you Sonic Team, you ruined my favorite franchise in so many ways and are pretty much just killing SEGA for me now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 22, 2010, 01:16:24 pm
Sanus hating a Sonic Team game!?!?

Oh wait, that's the norm around here.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 22, 2010, 01:42:42 pm
My phone started shakin to Sanus Sonic 4 twitter hate today :D

And Aki, people are complaining that this game is different than the originals. Not that it's bad. It's short and expensive imo, but it's worth it if you like it for what it is. I just think some are taking this way too seriously and it's really weird that when "everyone" hated Sonic Unleashed, all Sonic fans thought it was the best thing since Popsicles or something. Now that most people think this is a great game, the fans and mostly only them are complaining about how it's shit.

In reality, Sonic Unleashed was wa-ay worse and it cost 5 times as much when it launched. So where does all this hate coming from? Oh right, it has a "4" in the title. And since it's not like the originals it's shit. In my mind that shit makes no sense.

And yes I can spot the irony. But that only proves that the game lives up to the expectations of everyone who gave it a chance to shine. Unlike say Sonic Unleashed which made people cringe for death while playing a game that was 20% Sonic 80% disappointment.

Comments like Sanus' "this really goes so much further with just the 4 in the title" are stupid. Seriously think about what you are saying for a moment.

If doesn't like the physics or the visuals or the price or something, that's valid.
Though I was being a bit exaggerated on defending this game (I really enjoy it), I do admit that it has some bugs and the physics aren't the same. That may put some people off.

But the title of the game? lol are we really judging games by their title screens?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 22, 2010, 02:50:10 pm
flexing mod muscles:
I think the title debate could go on and on til we're blue in the face (hey, just like Sonic!), so I think it's best if we either let it rest or simply have our say on it and not move into a quoting match. Besides, this thread is 164 pages as is.

Sound good? Cool.

My take on it: Sonic '06 had the audacity to proclaim that it was the return of "Sonic the Hedgehog" to the gaming world. Using the original title of the Genesis days to basically say that Sonic '91 was to the 2D world as Sonic '06 would be to the 3D world. Of course, such a bold statement was a failure as the game not only did not live up to its title, but it was also a terrible game on its own. Any title could not save '06. Funnily enough, Sonic '06 is almost never even called "Sonic the Hedgehog". It was so bad it was stripped of its true name and was given a prison number (2006). :P

Now we have Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1, a game that once again has the audacity to share a name with the original classic series. However, unlike '06, it isn't attempting to steal away the title of another game. The "4 Episode 1" distinction clearly says that this is the next game in that series. In terms of gameplay rules and visuals, Sonic 4 is a match. 3 act structure, boss at the end of each zone, 50 rings to get to the bonus stage, 100 for a free life, item boxes, badniks, checkerboards, etc.

Now in terms of physics, that's a different story. It IS different, as for how it functions varies from person to person. Some get so used to it that they find a very fun game underneath all of the differences. Others cannot get over it and to them it is a game breaker. I'm not calling either wrong, nor do I think we need to get into this debate. Nobody is "lying to themselves" in this regard. Those who are enjoying it, truly are enjoying it and those who are hating it truly are hating it.

The Episode 1 distinction is important, as it says that the game is not complete. Sonic Team and SEGA have a lot of room to expand and improve the game. If they want to create more fans for the full game, they're going to have to take a lot of the (level headed) comments to heart. As it stands now, Sonic 4 Episode 1 isn't a sequel "as I imagined it" as Sonic Team themselves have not even imagined it fully. I really do think that the complete Sonic 4 (Episodes 1-3) should be created via a dialogue with the fans, and thankfully that is how it looks to be going.

Remember "Sonic Fan Remix" when it was in it's infancy? It was actually not as loved as it is now. In fact, a lot of people had some very negative things to say about it. It wasn't until the past few months that the creator of that fan game implemented input from other fans and made it better. Now I personally did not enjoy the game, but I can absolutely see an improvement from the first screens to the current build.

With the above in mind, Sonic 4's process is a lot like this. The initial game had many problems: mine cart, pinball stage, rarely appearing wheel-o-feet, sudden stop at the end of a stage, no world map. After internal testing, and opinions expressed by fans over the leak, the game was much improved. Not improved to the point to please every fan, but it was still much improved. Now imagine Sonic Team taking what they hear about the final release of Episode 1 and implementing changes to make Episode 2 better: improved physics, an alternative to uncurling, new zones and enemies, Tails, etc. Right there, Sonic Team would be greatly improving Sonic 4.

So all-in-all, Sonic 4 could claim its place with the classics, but only once the game is released in full.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 22, 2010, 03:12:28 pm
Barry, you are way too hopeful about the episodic nature of this game and Sonic Team. The game will not change in the way many people here would like to, it will remain the very same thing, recycled zones and badniks and bad gameplay (from a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles standpoint). They said the game was made to appeal to Mario fans and I can see the recycling continuing which is basically what NIntendo have been doing for 25 years now and got away with it. Sega is better than that shit and Sonic deserves a lot more respect.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 22, 2010, 03:19:16 pm
Well Orta, we shall see what Sonic Team does. At this point, the ball is in their court.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 22, 2010, 03:22:45 pm
Sanus doesnt like Sonic 4. THE WHOLE OF SEGA IS DEAD!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 22, 2010, 06:47:45 pm
Mad Gear Act 3 was awesome. I hope that Episode 2 starts out at about that level of difficult and then goes upwards from there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 22, 2010, 06:53:34 pm
Suggestion: Play the final boss while listening to Daft Punk's Robot Rock.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 22, 2010, 07:34:13 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Sanus hating a Sonic Team game!?!?

Oh wait, that's the norm around here.

More than half of their games from the 90s are some of my favorite games of all time. After years of consistent disappointment... Actually saying stuff that I like Unleashed and have actually defended Shadow's game a bit... If anything I am way too easy on them and you are just the mindless drone about it all.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Sanus doesnt like Sonic 4. THE WHOLE OF SEGA IS DEAD!

I said Sonic Team is so bad that it actually hurts SEGA for me. It is a big deal to me that they lie about Sonic stuff almost as much as Iizuka does now.

I do not understand why the three obvious defenders of this take my opinion on the game so seriously. I have constantly stated that I do not want you guys to not purchase these and that I am happy some people actually like this stuff, but you guys do not need to be asses about it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 22, 2010, 07:41:29 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
If anything I am way too easy on them and you are just the mindless drone about it all.

welcome to the next level mother f-
(http://http://www.shoemoney.com/images/nuke.jpg)

Thread destroyed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 22, 2010, 07:51:32 pm
Let's all chill out guys. If you don't like the game, then get Comic Jumper instead and love that. If you do like the game, then go for your life.

Let's all go and talk about how much we like Vanquish instead.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 22, 2010, 10:35:59 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Suggestion: Play the final boss while listening to Daft Punk's Robot Rock.

That is the single best bit of advice I have ever read on the internet. I salute you sir.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 22, 2010, 10:46:28 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Let's all chill out guys. If you don't like the game, then get Comic Jumper instead and love that. If you do like the game, then go for your life.

Let's all go and talk about how much we like Vanquish instead.

Comic Jumper... Really DID get a crappy review from GameTrailers... Watched it today. Comedy is good but gameplay is arse apparently.

Vanquish on the other hand... Non-Stop-Awesome shame that very few people here will actually get it (I feel).

I see about as much talk about Vanquish here as I do Total War... Both are so good it hurts.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 22, 2010, 11:11:26 pm
I've already got my copy of Vanquish, as for Comic Jumper, the gameplay is brilliant, but it's also really really hard. Maybe that's why it lost points. The beat em up sections are crappy, but the are few and far between, the shoot em up sections though are the bulk of the game and work really well.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 23, 2010, 06:57:25 am
Quote from: "SOUP"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Suggestion: Play the final boss while listening to Daft Punk's Robot Rock.

That is the single best bit of advice I have ever read on the internet. I salute you sir.
:afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 23, 2010, 07:01:21 am
Oh, and on Vanquish.. I am not getting it now simply because I have no money whatsoever.
Me and some friends are getting Def Jam Rapstar next month, so maybe I'll only get Vanquish by Christmas.

University + Driving Lessons = Vidya getting no love :c
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 23, 2010, 07:14:20 am
I'll be getting Vanquish too, but probably once it drops down to 39.99.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 23, 2010, 11:53:41 am
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

I just tried the Sonic 4 trial version and it's something spectacular.
I agree that at first the physics are a little weird, specially since Sonic does take a lot of time to run, but it is simply awesome!!!

And this game really needs to be played on an HDTV because it simply looks gorgeous, the screenshots I've seen do not do it any justice.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 23, 2010, 12:32:25 pm
Here we go again...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 23, 2010, 04:19:06 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

This was Sanus reaction. As I was listening to him over Skype, he would say "OMG" intertwined with a number of rude words. I love first impressions.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 23, 2010, 08:42:23 pm
Sanus... enough said.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 23, 2010, 11:55:31 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "max_cady"
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

This was Sanus reaction. As I was listening to him over Skype, he would say "OMG" intertwined with a number of rude words. I love first impressions.

So his first impressions of a game he had already desided he hated before playing it... Was hateing it... Didn't see that one coming!

What ever next!?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 23, 2010, 11:57:44 pm
As a drone, I can't wait for Free Riders. Hopefully the co-op mode will be my chance to finally hold hands with a g-g-g-g-girl!

Too bad no Sonic 4 news til 2011. Ruby Eclipse should really throw us a bone. Even a confirmation of Tails being playable before end of the year would be awesome.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 24, 2010, 12:11:45 am
Quote from: "crackdude"
Me and some friends are getting Def Jam Rapstar next month, so maybe I'll only get Vanquish by Christmas.

Quote
getting Def Jam Rapstar next month

Quote
I'll only get Vanquish by Christmas.

Quote
Def Jam Rapstar next month

Quote
Vanquish by Christmas

Quote
Def Jam Rapstar

Quote
Def Jam Rapstar

Quote
Def Jam Rapstar

(http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3iQEpEVcFQ8/SNkWoaHurCI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/3jiZDjDms0g/s400/What_The_Fuck_Is_This_Shit_Dr_Seus.jpg)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 24, 2010, 12:20:54 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "max_cady"
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

This was Sanus reaction. As I was listening to him over Skype, he would say "OMG" intertwined with a number of rude words. I love first impressions.

So his first impressions of a game he had already desided he hated before playing it... Was hateing it... Didn't see that one coming!

What ever next!?

I never said I hated it, I said it had retarded design and concepts. Now I hate it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 24, 2010, 12:26:59 am
Cute.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 24, 2010, 12:27:46 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
As a drone, I can't wait for Free Riders. Hopefully the co-op mode will be my chance to finally hold hands with a g-g-g-g-girl!
Awww, but then, only guys will show up to play Kinect with you. Oh well~

Guess you'll have to hold their hands instead. ^__^
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 24, 2010, 12:34:10 am
Sharky, why do you care so much and why are you such an ass about this? I feel I am really open to shitty design in Sonic games, I mean I beat Sonic 3D Blast three times in my life.

You really need to get a life man. It is not that big of a deal that some people hate the shit out of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, now is it?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 24, 2010, 12:41:18 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Sharky, why do you care so much and why are you such an ass about this? I feel I am really open to shitty design in Sonic games, I mean I beat Sonic 3D Blast three times in my life.

You really need to get a life man. It is not that big of a deal that some people hate the shit out of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, now is it?

I'm not losing sleep over it, trust me.

I'm just a bit sick of hearing about it at this point. Example, Max comes in to give his impressions of the game and suddenly like clock work I have to read (again) Orta or you or someone else 'reminding' us for the 50th time their already pretty clear feelings on the game.

Its spilling out into other threads now too...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 24, 2010, 12:55:06 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Sharky, why do you care so much and why are you such an ass about this? I feel I am really open to shitty design in Sonic games, I mean I beat Sonic 3D Blast three times in my life.

You really need to get a life man. It is not that big of a deal that some people hate the shit out of Sonic the Hedgehog 4, now is it?

I'm not losing sleep over it, trust me.

I'm just a bit sick of hearing about it at this point. It's like Max comes in to give their impressions of the game and suddenly like clock work I have to read (again) Mademan, Orta, you or someone else 'reminding' us for the 50th time their already pretty clear feelings on the game.

Its spilling out into other threads now too...

You seem to be. Orta's response to Max was just mentioning how I was swearing and saying OMG when I first played the game. That is it. It was just a basic post that did not even mention either of our opinions on it, in fact I could have been swearing in joy!

I never mention what I feel the quality of the game is outside of this forum because I just do not really care that much and know some people here do (PERHAPS NOT YOU?). You on the other hand, I see going all over the Internet trying hard to find even the most basic compliment and scold anyone who does not completely see it through your eyes.

At the end of the day in Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I most of our hatred comes from it being a low budget "Experiment" that is a sequel to what is likely to remain the company's biggest trilogy of all time. Look how nuts Capcom went for Street Fighter IV for instance, why is Sonic the Hedgehog 4 not even in the same kind of ballpark? Well, Sonic Team is Sonic Team, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now... You tell me what you know.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 24, 2010, 01:07:24 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now... You tell me what you know.

(http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HPZsTnm0-kg/TDAf3bFsxcI/AAAAAAAABOs/geLtAAzvQmQ/s1600/Groucho.jpg)



Also Sharky, I've tried to keep my voice down about this game since release, I don't think I complain about it THAT much. I don't even particularly hate it at this point, just kinda don't care.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 24, 2010, 08:46:38 am
Just played Sonic 4 and enjoyed it! Can't wait for episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 24, 2010, 09:11:30 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Just played Sonic 4 and enjoyed it! Can't wait for episode 2.
(http://http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/281/e/f/stop_enjoying_things_by_wupar-d30coh0.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 24, 2010, 09:16:37 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "max_cady"
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

This was Sanus reaction. As I was listening to him over Skype, he would say "OMG" intertwined with a number of rude words. I love first impressions.

So his first impressions of a game he had already desided he hated before playing it... Was hateing it... Didn't see that one coming!

What ever next!?

Mindless sheep make me hate it too.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 24, 2010, 10:08:36 am
Does anybody think Tails will be playable in episode 2? I really wonder how [spoiler:2vyqjtk7]Metal Sonic[/spoiler:2vyqjtk7] will come into play. Here's hoping for a non-racing battle with him.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 24, 2010, 10:25:30 am
He will pilot the Tornado. <insert bad joke about physics and stationary airplanes>

I can see why they wouldn't include Tails as a playable character. People would definitely DEMAND for him to be playable in episode 1 and that's a bit of a problem to my understanding (at least on the Wii). I can see Tails being playable in the same fashion as he was in Sonic 2, infinite lives and all.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 24, 2010, 11:27:12 am
Tails with a homing attack, anyone? Would make sense since he also got the spindash.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 24, 2010, 12:54:27 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Mindless sheep make me hate it too.

Out of curiosity, who here is a mindless sheep?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 24, 2010, 01:35:04 pm
I'm still playing Sonic 4 trying to get that last Chaos emerald. That is what I love about digital games..I can take a break from Vanquish and go straight into Sonic 4 without having to switch disks.

That this isn't the holy grail of Sonic 2D's is probably something to let go of by now.  It's a conservative and calculated stepping back into the 2D Sonic arena buy Sega. This was an experiment in order for Sega to test demand and I fully expect future Sonic 2D titles will be more for the success this game has likely enjoyed.  All in all, this was a fun and decent first step in a long road back.

Anyone know sales and revenue figures from Sega, I would be interested in reading them. Please share.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 24, 2010, 03:07:38 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Just played Sonic 4 and enjoyed it! Can't wait for episode 2.
(http://http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/281/e/f/stop_enjoying_things_by_wupar-d30coh0.png)

This is the kind of shit that makes people like me an Orta call you guys mindless. I dare you to look through every post of ours, because neither of us have ever said we did not want people to like it or enjoy it in any way. In fact I have gone out of my way to say I am actually glad that not everyone hates it. People like you on the other hand pick out all of our posts and insinuate the most annoying shit in the world. Seriously, just stop it.

I am also hoping it sells good enough for Sonic Team to realize they fucked up but also that other developers realize there is a good market for new platformers on the digital platforms now. Same with Costume Quest, I hope that does good enough for other developers to consider more original RPGs on there. Or even just more ports would be cool.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 24, 2010, 03:24:02 pm
But you're not answering the real question: will Tails be in Episode 2?

But srsly, if you really want people to stop with "that kind of shit" then perhaps stop calling people "mindless drones" and "sheep".

Quote
People like you on the other hand pick out all of our posts and insinuate the most annoying shit in the world. Seriously, just stop it.

Oh now now, I've seen you do this exact same thing on these forums. Don't use the "you people" thing. We're all argumentative little shits who need to chill out and stop with the stupid insults.

Baaaaaaaa!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 24, 2010, 03:57:28 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
But srsly, if you really want people to stop with "that kind of shit" then perhaps stop calling people "mindless drones" and "sheep".

That came after as a response for the people who specifically would only defend everything about the game, regardless of how silly a topic it was. Obviously it will not stop when I only mentioned people being mindless twice and Orta only did once, no one else did it, but they are getting shit for it anyways.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Oh now now, I've seen you do this exact same thing on these forums.

Only because people were trying to defend Namco games. That is just disgusting.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
We're all argumentative little shits who need to chill out and stop with the stupid insults.

Baaaaaaaa!

I think it is a bit of an achievement that after all of this year we only recently brought in insults that only go as far as these do. You sexy, sexy man, you

Quote
But you're not answering the real question: will Tails be in Episode 2?

Obviously.

/Episode I topic.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 24, 2010, 04:25:16 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Baaaaaaaa!
I miss my chao...


And geez Sanus it was a joke. Loose up a bit dude..  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Stylista on October 24, 2010, 04:51:03 pm
All this bitching about the physics and people don't stop and ask "why?" the physics where changed.

Was it some arbitrary design change? No.

The genesis of Sonic's old school physics and mechanics were based in a design choice meant to differentiate the game from Mario while showing off the faster processor of the Megadrive.

Sonic today is meant to be played by iphone owning casuals and Mario playing little kids that aren't dedicated gamers.

The uncurling, the ability to extend flight with a jump, homing attack, and the slower speed are all intentionally there to make the game more accessible to today's expanded gaming audience.

It's not rational to expect the physics to change to something more hardcore when that is going to exclude a lot of the market that Sega is going after.  And I'm not defending the physics in saying that.. I'm just saying wake up and realize why things are the way they are rather than continue to pointlessly ask for what isn't going to happen the way things are now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: max_cady on October 24, 2010, 05:52:44 pm
I guess that slowing down Sonic would make him a little easier to control and Iizuka did say he wanted Sonic to appeal just a little more to the Mario crowd, so some changes would be inevitable, the Donkey Kong-ish style of those character models seems to be an indication of that.

But just one second, I can understand why some might dislike Sonic 4, it's a 2D Sonic game entirely built from the ground-up and there seems to be a dash of Sonic Unleashed into it, through the constant use of speed bumps that are there only to propel the player foward, but they serve exactly that purpose.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 24, 2010, 05:57:34 pm
Got the 6th emerald in the console version! So easy! Now on to the 7th...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 24, 2010, 06:41:24 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Baaaaaaaa!
I miss my chao...


And geez Sanus it was a joke. Loose up a bit dude..  :afroman:

I found it even more weird considering Mademan has been doing these kind of jokes, but on the opposite side of the fence for a while now.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: SOUP on October 24, 2010, 09:33:26 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Got the 6th emerald in the console version! So easy! Now on to the 7th...

The 7th is a pain in the ass because there are so many of those auto fail strips that you can get bumped into.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 06:05:42 am
Just saw the last boss. I am kind of impressed with how it played, but it is just far too long and the music is far too short and shitty.

I do have a question though. Can anyone identify the world in the back as the same version of Earth from Sonic Unleashed? I ask because I really am hoping they keep all of the new planet concepts that were included in that game in the next set of major releases.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 25, 2010, 07:35:22 am
Quote from: "SOUP"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Got the 6th emerald in the console version! So easy! Now on to the 7th...

The 7th is a pain in the ass because there are so many of those auto fail strips that you can get bumped into.

Emerald 5 is the real pain. You got that circle room to unlock, then those tunnels with the traps that catch you then you got that final room that needs to be unlocked again! :P Despite not completing emerald 7 yet, I'm finding it way more forgiving than 5. On my second attempt of the 7th stage, I had 9 rings to go before the clock ran out. Pretty darn close!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 25, 2010, 07:37:08 am
To be fair I'm still waiting for Crackdude to provide me names for the close-minded users on the forum. Names names!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 25, 2010, 08:41:24 am
Quote from: "Aki-at"
To be fair I'm still waiting for Crackdude to provide me names for the close-minded users on the forum. Names names!

Depends on which game we're talkin' about. If we're talkin' Bayonetta, I have a short list of offenders. :mrgreen:

Naw, can't speak for crackdude, but I don't think anybody here has really been close-minded as long as they have already played the game.

Though if he hasn't played the demo yet (if he has, ignore what all that follows) I'd have to call Mademan out. Not for close-mindedness, but for putting off even the demo. He has had stated some opinions on the game, but from what I have read, he has yet to even play it.

Playyyyyyyy! PLAYYYYYYYYY!!!!  :twisted:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Aki-at on October 25, 2010, 09:00:48 am
MadeManG has a cap on his download per month, about 15 gigs, so I can understand why he would not, especially when you're already not feeling it. lol Australian Internet Connections.

Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Depends on which game we're talkin' about. If we're talkin' Bayonetta, I have a short list of offenders. :mrgreen:

It'll be a very short list, of like, only one person haha.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 25, 2010, 09:33:19 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Depends on which game we're talkin' about. If we're talkin' Bayonetta, I have a short list of offenders. :mrgreen:
I know of a moderator who's so close-minded to differences in opinions that he'd lock a thread because another user doesn't like something that he personally loves.

Not that I'm pointing any fingers, of course.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 25, 2010, 10:33:06 am
Fluffy, you are on very thin ice as it is. I really don't know what the hell you were thinking with that last post but one more comment like that and you've got yourself a second official warning. You were warned last time not because of some "close-minded to differences in opinions" bullshit, but because I told you to not turn a topic about gaming depictions in the media into discussing child rape statistics. You went on with it, I locked the topic, you created a new one, I locked that topic, officially warned you, and you saw the need to continue insults at me via PM.

Final word on this. Keep up complaining about it = warning.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 25, 2010, 10:50:08 am
Hey, you ribbed at me first. :P You shouldn't dish out what you can't take.

A fair reason why I don't play Bayonetta (among other things) is because I find it to be flat-out repulsive. When you ask me to play the game, you may as well be asking someone to drink out of a dirty old toilet.

Anyway, I think we've done the whole Bayonetta discussion thing far too many times. I have no idea why you guys keep digging it back up from the grave every now and then. Let it rest already.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sharky on October 25, 2010, 11:10:05 am
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Depends on which game we're talkin' about. If we're talkin' Bayonetta, I have a short list of offenders. :mrgreen:
I know of a moderator who's so close-minded to differences in opinions that he'd lock a thread because another user doesn't like something that he personally loves.

Not that I'm pointing any fingers, of course.

Second Waring.

This is thread derailing, flamebaiting and you were the one in the wrong last time.

The next time is a weeks ban.

Everyone back on topic...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 25, 2010, 11:37:25 am
:lol: Okay, well... since we're back on the subject of Sonic 4...

Is getting all the chaos emeralds for the super special secret ending worth it? Don't spoil the ending for me (yet), either. I haven't decided whether or not I should bother. I'd like the secret to be so awesome, that I'd say "Whoa.... that was totally worth spending the extra time on getting."
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Orta on October 25, 2010, 11:38:21 am
Nope. It's kind of obvious and expected.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 25, 2010, 12:01:27 pm
=(

Awww, man... It really is like an old-school game. (http://http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWinnerIsYou)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 25, 2010, 02:03:04 pm
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Though if he hasn't played the demo yet (if he has, ignore what all that follows) I'd have to call Mademan out. Not for close-mindedness, but for putting off even the demo. He has had stated some opinions on the game, but from what I have read, he has yet to even play it.

Playyyyyyyy! PLAYYYYYYYYY!!!!  :twisted:

I haven't played the demo yet, since I don't think I would like it enough to buy it, my HDD is full (Especially after Comic Jumper) and even if I DID buy it, I'd want to play Fallout NV and Vanqish first anyway.

I try to keep my comments limited to things I disagree with in concept, like the homing attack or the bizarre physics where you instantly stop if you don't hold the direction.

I'll probably give it a shot eventually, but at the moment it's pretty low on my radar compared to other games coming out (even KOF2k2UM is finally coming out, which will eat up a lot of my gaming time).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 25, 2010, 02:06:37 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I try to keep my comments limited to things I disagree with in concept, like the homing attack or the bizarre physics where you instantly stop if you don't hold the direction.
There is a long way between concept and product. It doesn't hurt you to dl a demo and play for 5 minutes :P
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 25, 2010, 02:16:37 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I try to keep my comments limited to things I disagree with in concept, like the homing attack or the bizarre physics where you instantly stop if you don't hold the direction.
There is a long way between concept and product. It doesn't hurt you to dl a demo and play for 5 minutes :P

I know it won't 'hurt' but I don't particularly want to download over a GB of demo to my already full HDD to play something I'm not particularly interested in. Especially when I would probably just put it on the back-burner until after I've finished Vanquish and New Vegas anyway.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 02:26:59 pm
So someone is not allowed to have any kind of opinion on a game they know a lot about, but never played? Even if it is a completely neutral view? Cool.

Anyways, my important question was never answered! Can anyone make certain that the planet behind the characters at the end of the game is Unleashed's version of Earth?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 25, 2010, 02:44:54 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
So someone is not allowed to have any kind of opinion on a game they know a lot about, but never played? Even if it is a completely neutral view? Cool.

They can have one, as they'd have to be a robot to NOT have some form of opinion. I was just asking if Mademan has played the demo yet, and if he hasn't yet I wanted to know why.

Btw, game is 173.4 MB download
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 25, 2010, 03:20:40 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Anyways, my important question was never answered! Can anyone make certain that the planet behind the characters at the end of the game is Unleashed's version of Earth?
I cant MAKE CERTAIN but it looks like it I think.. Why is this important?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 25, 2010, 03:36:29 pm
Not sure if it matches up, but at least it isn't an Earth world map as we know it. I still remember when I spotted a flat Earth map on a wall in one of the Riders games. An actual real world map, with the USA and all, in a Sonic game. Ugh.

Here's the texture as ripped by the folks at TSSMB:
(http://http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2945/sonic4eggstation.png)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 04:21:41 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Anyways, my important question was never answered! Can anyone make certain that the planet behind the characters at the end of the game is Unleashed's version of Earth?
I cant MAKE CERTAIN but it looks like it I think.. Why is this important?

Because Sonic Unleashed was a reboot of the franchise and I was wondering if they were going to remake it all over again for the next major release. The world design is a good hint as to whether or not they will do this because they spent a lot of time setting it so the way people and places were arranged made sense, they would probably make a new one if they scrapped this. The world in that game certainly was not my favorite by any means, but I am sick of the only thing about the series being consistent anymore is that they usually are not great but have similar menu art.

I cannot tell for sure by the image Barry posted, but it does look a bit different... I do not remember that many lakes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 25, 2010, 04:27:03 pm
Look at that mess of a huge continent. What a shitty game.
/trollface

"I am sick of the only thing about the series being consistent anymore is that they usually suck but have similar menu art."
I never gave much attention to Sonic's geography.. Like the "story" I don't think it ever had any cohesion whatsoever. Remember when Sonic helped the President of the United States? Yeah that was weird lol
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 04:39:20 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I never gave much attention to Sonic's geography.. Like the "story" I don't think it ever had any cohesion whatsoever. Remember when Sonic helped the President of the United States? Yeah that was weird lol

Well, that was a problem. Almost every Sonic game released around that time had major identity crisis issues, which is why they seemed to have wanted to fix it in Sonic Unleashed, not just the gameplay, but the overall style. I am pretty sure they only mentioned the President as just a president, and not of a specific or real nation too.

Extremely unlikely, but I kind of am hoping they find some way to get every main game to work together somehow, like be able to mention how Sonic met Tails or Knuckles again or something. I am kind of doubting this and am pretty sure they think what they are doing now is better than the series ever has been, which is why basic stuff like the floating island and Sonic having his own plane have been lost with the past few years.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 25, 2010, 05:30:07 pm
In the games he was president of the United Federation. In the anime it was explicitly of the United States lol

But take a look at Colors for example. Where does that space crap fit in? Have you seen how many shit Robotnik has put up in the sky? He blew off the moon, he made several robotic moons, has tons of lasers and crap. At one point he threw a giant lizard into space as well.

And what is Mobius? How did Sonic come to Earth on the Adventure series? What about Angel Island? How come it was both in Mobius and Earth?

Where the fuck is Soleanna located?

My point is I think it's a bit late to try and make something cohesive out of geographic locations (and plot). But that doesn't really matter much I think.. I like the idea of having different timelines in different places with different stories.

And I don't think Sonic 4 should be on the same place as Unleashed. Sonic 4 is a continuation of 3, so it's all in Mobius (or whatever it is called). In fact, the final boss is in Sonic 2's space station.
So from where did all the humans in Unleashed come from? Does that mean that those dark earth spirits might return in Sonic 5 if the planet is shattered?

This is confusing!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 06:50:20 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
In the games he was president of the United Federation. In the anime it was explicitly of the United States lol

United Federation is not a real thing. For Sonic X, pretty sure 4Kids changed a lot of the script. Does not matter anyways, Sonic X is not recognized in any of the games outside of advertisements.

Quote from: "crackdude"
But take a look at Colors for example. Where does that space crap fit in? Have you seen how many shit Robotnik has put up in the sky? He blew off the moon, he made several robotic moons, has tons of lasers and crap. At one point he threw a giant lizard into space as well.

Sonic Colors is a spinoff and part of a different canon of the franchise. Sonic Adventure 2 is part of the main series.

Quote from: "crackdude"
And what is Mobius? How did Sonic come to Earth on the Adventure series? What about Angel Island? How come it was both in Mobius and Earth?

Mobius was the name of the planet in the Sonic games by French and American versions of Sonic things, such as the animated shows, comics and even English language manuals in some cases. Sonic Team had always designed the series as if it took place on Earth, but they did not explain this to other branches of SEGA well.

Angel Island is the Floating Island which is powered by the Master Emerald. It's powers come from the mystical powers the Echidna tribes had, which Knuckles now protects. Only the Archie comics ever had any of this mentioned on a Mobius and that should be completely ignored anyways.

I am not sure of this, but I heard that the Archie comics explain that Mobius was originally Earth, but they renamed it for no reason. I guess this is all the evidence you need to know to avoid these comics.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Where the fuck is Soleanna located?

Never really explained. However, there was barely any good planning that took place in that game, so only you and Cube care.

Quote from: "crackdude"
My point is I think it's a bit late to try and make something cohesive out of geographic locations (and plot). But that doesn't really matter much I think.. I like the idea of having different timelines in different places with different stories.

A bit late? I already pointed out Sonic Unleashed is seen as a reboot of the franchise to SEGA and Sonic Team. They are going to continue this style, as proven by Sonic Colors' mechanics, so how is any of this late?

Obviously it does not matter at the end of the day, but especially for such a massive series that is now mostly designed with young children in mind, they should have basic fundamentals like where some characters live and how they know eachother. Sonic Adventure and even Sonic Battle on the Game Boy Advance did it alright, so they ARE capable of this stuff. When they keep changing everything it can get very confusing for us, think of how hard the children have to strain to understand this. WON'T ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!

Quote from: "crackdude"
And I don't think Sonic 4 should be on the same place as Unleashed. Sonic 4 is a continuation of 3, so it's all in Mobius (or whatever it is called). In fact, the final boss is in Sonic 2's space station.
So from where did all the humans in Unleashed come from? Does that mean that those dark earth spirits might return in Sonic 5 if the planet is shattered?

No, Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, 3 and 4 all take place on Earth. This eventually leads into the Adventure series and presumably Unleashed and whatever else goes next. The humans are not in the levels in the classic games, but they do exist, which is why all of those buildings are everywhere, unless you expect the little animals live in all of those? Sonic was also originally going to have a human girlfriend in the first game that he had to save from Robotnik, but the concept was scrapped. The concept around this was reused for Elise in Sonic 06 though.

Games like Sonic Colors, Sonic Rush, Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Spinball are all considered part of the spinoff series that have no humans outside of Robotnik. The way these games progress does not effect the main series in any way outside of design concepts.

Quote from: "crackdude"
This is confusing!

Glad I cleared it all up then!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 25, 2010, 07:17:04 pm
Well that was a nice explanation :)

But isn't Colors supposed to be part of the main series? What makes you say it isn't?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 25, 2010, 10:08:41 pm
Sanus re-writes history.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 25, 2010, 10:30:27 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
But isn't Colors supposed to be part of the main series? What makes you say it isn't?

No, even Iizuka said it is not. SEGA might market it like a main game, but that is only to get people to buy it. A good example is if Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was not named that, it would not sell as good. Still would sell good because of the brand name though.

Quote from: "George"
Sanus re-writes history.

All history is an interpretation, therefore all previous history itself was rewritten.  :oops:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 25, 2010, 11:57:15 pm
Actually Iizuka said it was part of the main series. Don't have the source with me right now but i'm sure those who have been watching/reading his interviews would know what i'm talking about.

But as you said, it may have just been marketing talk.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: MadeManG74 on October 26, 2010, 02:53:37 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Btw, game is 173.4 MB download

Why the hell did I think it was over GB? Oh well, fuck my shit then! I'll probably give it a shot soonish. :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on October 26, 2010, 02:55:28 am
Its like almost double that on PS3, i'm sure.

Anyway, enjoy.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2010, 07:28:08 am
According to the PS3 site, it is 199 mb.

I had thought it was over a GB as well, mainly because every thing I've downloaded the past month has been huge (Vanquish demo, SA1, Comic Jumper)

Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Actually Iizuka said it was part of the main series. Don't have the source with me right now but i'm sure those who have been watching/reading his interviews would know what i'm talking about.

Yup, it was in one of the many interviews out there (too lazy to search now, but I read it too). It caused quite a commotion at TSS, causing many a Wii fan to thumb their noses at PS360 owners.

Sonic canon is so f'd up that it's best to just ignore it, but since the subject was brought up...

Colors itself is a part of the main Sonic series, in that the series goes: Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K, 4, SA, SA2, SH, '06, SU, SC. Shadow the Hedgehog and Chaotix are, in my opinion, side stories that exist within the main series. edit: Add 3D Blast in with the spin-offs as well, as detailed in my next post.

Unleashed and Colors aren't so much a reboot as they are a simplification of the series. All the stuff that occurred in SA1 through to '06 DID occur before Unleashed, but Sonic Team chose to not have the characters refer to those past events in every cut scene. Just because we don't see Knuckles, Shadow, etc. doesn't meant they don't exist.

Stuff such as the Game Gear and Advance series are debatable, but best left to their own little portable storyline. Spinball, Mean Bean, Riders, etc. are all more like the spin-offs Sanus is talking about. Existing in their own little universes apart from the main series. I doubt even Sonic Team acknowledges them in the regular games... at least until the Babylon Rogues pop up in Sonic Anniversary :P

Stupid Sonic series continuity.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 26, 2010, 08:49:08 am
Yeah the ordercanon Barry said is the one I always thought of as well.

I also love how no one ever mentions Sonic 3D haha.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2010, 09:17:50 am
lol, forgot about Sonic 3D Blast!

That's a toughie because it was a Traveller's Tales game, but Sonic Team did have a hand in it as well (with the Saturn version especially). For the most part it follows the rules of the classics. However it adds the flicky collecting and that overhead view makes it seem like the bastard child of a 2D and 3D Sonic game. Despite all that, the game does seem to take place within the main series universe. It expanded greatly on the flicky birds. Without 3D Blast, we would have never seen Gamma's story as it was in Sonic Adventure.

If I personally had to place it, I'd stick it with Shadow and Chaotix as it does take place within the series main storyline but has too many differences (gameplay, dev team) to fall into the main series. Per Wikipedia's (stupid) current sorting of the games, they stick Shadow the Hedgehog in the console main series, but they stick Chaotix and 3D Blast in the spin-off platformers category. I'd edit it myself, but I did that before and somebody reverted it back. Isthere some sort of grand council that I have to appeal to in order to alter how wikipedia sorts the series? :P

Oh yeah, and while all of this talk is off topic, I personally allow it because (A) we're not fighting over physics and (B) I don't want to see yet another Sonic topic in the SEGA forum.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fluffymoochicken on October 26, 2010, 09:44:56 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
that overhead view makes it seem like the bastard child of a 2D and 3D Sonic game.
It's called isometric projection (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection). >_> Usually, people would refer to this game as an "isometric game" or an "isometric platformer".

Isometric games can be awesome, even though Sonic was never an ideal candidate for it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 26, 2010, 10:40:20 am
I vote for this topic to lose the "4" in the title.
And I'm not joking lol a single Sonic the Hedgehog general thread is good.

I think it's pretty stupid to consider Shadow the Hedgehog a main Sonic game. You don't even play as Sonic! And the story is pretty poor too. They went way overboard on expanding Sonic Adventure 2's plot.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2010, 11:35:04 am
I agree that we should have a general Sonic topic, however I also think that the current games deserve their own topics. Sonic 4 discussion cannot coexist with Free Riders and Colors. Perhaps if other mods are cool with it, I'll create a general Sonic discussion thread so we can cut down on all the smaller Sonic topics that discuss the series as a whole, feature funny youtube videos or simply point to a online poll. Meanwhile 4, Colors and Free Riders will maintain their own thread. Would help keep up the SEGAness of this place and keep the SONICness to a minimum.

As for Shadow's plot: LOL
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 26, 2010, 01:01:44 pm
Shadow's game is part of the main overall plot, but not the main series. Chaotix I cannot be certain of, but I am pretty sure Sonic Team does not consider this game as part of the franchise anymore. They will just ignore it, like the Pico games.

I agree it is stupid to even mention this kind of stuff, but it is just something I was wondering as to how they would continue the franchise. The world design is a good indication of this.

Sonic Colors is not part of the main series though. The main series is the one with humans, this is pretty much a continuation of stuff like the Game Boy Advance stuff. Again, if they make it seem like part of the main series it is just for marketing purposes.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2010, 04:03:28 pm
Chaotix is an odd beast. Wikipedia and SEGA/Sonic Retro list the dev as Sonic Team, while Giant Bomb lists SEGA as the dev. The game itself makes no mention of Sonic Team, however Chaotix has quite a few staff who had worked on previous Sonic games, particularly Kenichi Ono, Mamoru Shigeta, Takumi Miyake and Masato Nishimura. Funny thing is, Sonic CD shares much of those mentioned staff members and it too makes no mention of Sonic Team (from what I can tell), however Chaotix is still shoved aside to spin-off status.

Still can't agree that Colors is not main series though, considering how the producer and PR guys say otherwise. Also, the return of Orbot is a rather big link with Unleashed which exists in the human world you're talking about. Sort of like how the James Bond series from Sean Connery through to Roger Moore were one storyline with a number of soft reboots by way of actor and decade change. Despite the changes to the actor and time setting, all the movies in this time period dealt with a continuing plot of Bond getting even with Blofeld. Anyway, gotta go! Hope there was some of or sense there, no time to reread it!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 26, 2010, 04:24:29 pm
Chaotix was made by different groups developing other 32X games. SEGA Technical Institute made the core game while RED (Tempo, Bonk, Sakura Taisen) worked on some background designs... Which can mean art or paralax scrolling, the Ecco team in Novotrade did some technical stuff (just like in Vectorman) and AM2 made the special stages, which is why they are the best part of the game.

Sonic Team did help with it (maybe with sprites and character art?), but the majority did not have a hand in it.

Sonic CD was all Sonic Team as far as I know, just by a different set of people than 1 and 3. I also think some other teams helped them make it too, but I cannot be certain of this.

Sonic Colors' version of Orbot is different. I am not sure how this is any kind of proof. Blaze is in Sonic Rush and Sonic 06, but she has two completely different origins in them.

It is all just PR to make it sound like it is a more important release than it is. SEGA was surprised at the reaction the game got and are trying to make it seem more important. This is why I would not be surprised if that HD release of Sonic Colors is real.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on October 26, 2010, 05:39:49 pm
Still, there is no reason at all for it not to be in the main series. It has more to do with usual Sonic games than Sonic 06 for example, which made no fucking sense.

And the game takes place in space. Why can't it still be the same Earth as Unleashed, with humans?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 26, 2010, 06:31:35 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Still, there is no reason at all for it not to be in the main series. It has more to do with usual Sonic games than Sonic 06 for example, which made no fucking sense.

And the game takes place in space. Why can't it still be the same Earth as Unleashed, with humans?

How does Colors have more to do with Sonic games than Sonic 06? Sonic 06 used design concepts from the Adventure games, Heroes, Shadow and some other stuff. Colors is pretty much just Unleashed (which was pretty much like nothing else in the series at the time) with new gimmicks.

Iizuka also said Colors is part of the series without humans and that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is part of the one with humans.

Not sure how people are not understanding this... Just because it is a spinoff does not mean it is instantly worse or anything, if that is what you think I am getting to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2010, 09:33:11 pm
i think something was lost in translation with what iizuka said. i think he meant that some games we see the humans and other times we wont. Eggman is human, so how is it impossible for humans to exist in the Sonicverse? crackdude makes an excellent point. the game is in space over the same planet as seen in Unleashed. We dont see humans as they are down on Earth and Sonic is up in space. Would colors be more of a sonic game if it shoehorned in references to SA2, featured Shadow backstory and had Emerald Coast return? this is a main series game in the same series as SA through to Unleashed, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on October 27, 2010, 02:32:43 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
i think something was lost in translation with what iizuka said. i think he meant that some games we see the humans and other times we wont. Eggman is human, so how is it impossible for humans to exist in the Sonicverse? crackdude makes an excellent point. the game is in space over the same planet as seen in Unleashed. We dont see humans as they are down on Earth and Sonic is up in space. Would colors be more of a sonic game if it shoehorned in references to SA2, featured Shadow backstory and had Emerald Coast return? this is a main series game in the same series as SA through to Unleashed, plain and simple.

I am not sure how much clearer I can explain this, seriously. Iizuka only said it was the next 3D Sonic game, not that it was a sequel to Sonic Unleashed or anything...

I do not know why you are trying to argue that it is without a doubt the next major Sonic game. If it does not take place in the same universe as every other one that is considered part of the main series then... It is not part of the main series.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 27, 2010, 08:01:37 am
Please direct all comments regarding this to the Colors thread, as I've noticed we're in the Sonic 4 thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=338&start=570 (http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=338&start=570)

My reply is at the above link  :afroman:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 28, 2010, 11:02:37 am
Sonic 4 iPhone on sale for $6.99! Limited time only, I assume, to capitalize on all the people buying Chu Chu Rocket. Two great iPhone games for just $12.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on October 28, 2010, 08:16:20 pm
chu chu ftw!!!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: upsidedown fuji on October 29, 2010, 09:41:52 am
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Sonic 4 iPhone on sale for $6.99! Limited time only, I assume, to capitalize on all the people buying Chu Chu Rocket. Two great iPhone games for just $12.

I wish I had an iphone so I could play chuchu on the go. Hopefully it gets ported to XBL and PSN. Endless competitive puzzle action. Also, $6.99 for sonic 4 ain't bad at all. It's a solid game once you learn how the newest Sonic controls.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: fernandeath on November 02, 2010, 07:32:35 am
Sonic 4 was the 'IGN's game of the month released for the wiiware'.

Is this something to Sonic be proud of?
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1131503p1.html (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1131503p1.html)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Happy Cat on November 02, 2010, 09:21:42 am
Wiiware rarely has anything released that's worth your time.
I wouldn't consider it much of an achievment. Not bashing Sonic 4. Just saying.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Autosaver on November 03, 2010, 08:46:56 pm
Quote from: "ShadiWulf"
Wiiware rarely has anything released that's worth your time.
I wouldn't consider it much of an achievment. Not bashing Sonic 4. Just saying.
This post screams ProSony. (Well, it WAS obvious on the boards)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on November 03, 2010, 08:56:29 pm
It has nothing to do with Sony in the post. ... Wiiware doesn't have much good games released for it as much as XBLA or PSN. Thats true.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: STORM! on November 04, 2010, 05:21:58 am
Quote from: "George"
It has nothing to do with Sony in the post. ... Wiiware doesn't have much good games released for it as much as XBLA or PSN. Thats true.

 Then, its stills in the same stage, since Sonic 4 is not a good game. LOLOLOLOL!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: George on November 04, 2010, 06:32:23 am
FFFFUU
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on November 04, 2010, 08:10:31 am
Super Sonic fuck yeah! Is it me or SS is barely controllable?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on November 04, 2010, 09:57:08 am
Super sonic was also kind of hard to control in the classics, the bad physics do make it worse though
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: crackdude on November 04, 2010, 12:30:14 pm
different* physics
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: Sega Uranus on November 04, 2010, 07:11:29 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
different* physics

Sonic 06 is not bad, it is just different. :!:

Also, can we turn this into a Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I topic and then make a second one when the next episode is shown?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 04, 2010, 07:44:54 pm
Made the change :)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
Post by: CrazyT on November 05, 2010, 06:49:58 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
different* physics
Hmm.... I'm sure you'd be happy to have an episode 2 with the pinball physics. Now it's all defending and blabla bs, but when episode 2 comes out with everything fixed you are gonna be like yeah, this feels way better.

It happens in the sonic fanbase too much. They defend a sonic game to death, next sonic game comes out and they start to critisize the previous one they loved so much, or so they claimed.

In that context I think the physics of s4e1 are pretty bad. The game is history anyways.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 05, 2010, 07:14:27 pm
Isn't it obvious the pinball physics were dropped to appeal/make it easier to casuals and Mario playing kids?

Or do naive fans think it was an arbitrary design change made at the random whim of an oblivious designer?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 05, 2010, 07:20:20 pm
^this

and didn't Sonic 06 have the same physics as Adventure but f'd with to the max?

I hope they make it better for Ep 2. But that doesn't mean they are bad. Anything can be improved.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 05, 2010, 07:52:05 pm
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Isn't it obvious the pinball physics were dropped to appeal/make it easier to casuals and Mario playing kids?

Or do naive fans think it was an arbitrary design change made at the random whim of an oblivious designer?

How does losing any and all momentum in mid-air appeal to Mario fans? It's just shitty programming/design...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 05, 2010, 08:21:11 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Isn't it obvious the pinball physics were dropped to appeal/make it easier to casuals and Mario playing kids?

Or do naive fans think it was an arbitrary design change made at the random whim of an oblivious designer?

How does losing any and all momentum in mid-air appeal to Mario fans? It's just shitty programming/design...

Accessible.. it makes it more controllable by introducing a momentum break.  It was a deliberate design change that happened with Sonic Advance 2 GBA.  Everything in a game is there to enhance its sales appeal...I'm guessing they made it easier for the Mario playing kids (toddlers and pre-teens) and casuals that were the predominant demographic buying the game.  Old-school pinball physics might be less accessible to the casual gamer that has never played classic Sonic.  Werehog was added to Unleashed for marketing purposes...

They already recently admitted Sonic was adapted to appeal to Mario fans.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 05, 2010, 11:19:02 pm
Hmm, I don't really see it sorry. Guess we'll have to disagree. Looks just like sloppy mechanics to me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 06, 2010, 01:12:45 am
It's entirely logical. Games are designed according to the demographics they sell to.  The hardcore internet fans asking for the physics change represent probably 1% of the total actual audience of the game.  The Dimps physics changed from Sonic Advance 1 to Sonic Advance 2 so there was obviously a deliberate reason for doing that. They probably focus group tested the physics at one point to see what was more appropriate to the target audience.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 06, 2010, 03:13:33 am
I just don't see how that makes the game easier or more casual friendly though.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 06, 2010, 05:44:59 am
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Werehog was added to Unleashed for marketing purposes...

That is actually somewhat wrong.

Both SEGA of Europe and SEGA of America stressed that the werehog would not be a good idea for Sonic and believed people would rather just play the Sonic portion of the game 100% however, Sonic Team believed fans wanted different gameplay styles still and ignored their concerns and just went through with the werehog.

It wasn't until the continued terrible sales of Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and the Black Knight that they were forced to make it stick to only one gameplay style.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 06, 2010, 11:28:14 am
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"

  It was a deliberate design change that happened with Sonic Advance 2 GBA.  
That is not true at all. Every 2d sonic game except for the rush(and now also colors) have had air momentum. Actually almost every decent 2d platformer has air momentum.

I'm not saying this is true or anything, but i'm assuming they just took the easy way out and didn't really find sonic 4 an important game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 06, 2010, 12:31:23 pm
http://http://www.hapisan.com/s4jazzscat/
click it
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 06, 2010, 01:10:40 pm
Yeah I heard those  :P . Good stuff
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 06, 2010, 06:44:01 pm
He never completed Hapisan? Ah shame.

Also Mad Gear Act 1 sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 06, 2010, 10:42:33 pm
Quote
“When you play Sonic 4, whether you’re an old fan or a new fan, that you can enjoy the levels and not have any moments that are too frustrating or difficult, or that make you want to stop playing.”

Right there Aaron Webber reveals the game play design approach of Sonic 4.  Once again expanded gaming demographics dilutes the purity of game mechanics.

Imagine a casual jumping from card-to-card in Casino 2 with old-school pinball physics.  They would stop playing right there.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 06, 2010, 11:39:18 pm
I think you're drawing a long bow to be honest. Doesn't Mario keep moving in mid-air? That quote doesn't even mention the game physics.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on November 07, 2010, 12:17:22 am
Idiotic, the point of all sonic games was always to be simple. You are an idiot if you think 'all of a sudden' they are playing Sonic to the 'casual' crowd, when that was the intention since he was made.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 07, 2010, 07:08:44 am
Yeah I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill to be honest. Naka (Or one of the three) even said Sonic 1 was designed with only one button in mind so that it could be accessible for everyone. The idea was it was easy to complete a level, but hard to master it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 07, 2010, 10:46:02 am
Yeah cause no one ever had ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER getting through Chemical Plant in Sonic2. Which is like.. the 3rd level.

Simple gameplay doesn't make a game easy. The old ones needed more skill than Sonic 4. And that is largely due to the later giving more control over the character (easier to change direction midair for example).

Back in the Megadrive days Sonic was the most mainstream hardcore game. There were no casuals back then. The market has changed and so did the core demographics for Sonic 4 I believe.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 07, 2010, 12:14:57 pm
Lol yeah, I died lots of times in chemical plant act 2 as a kid. Still got past it after replaying the game enough times.

The thing is, people seem to think losing lives or getting the game over screen is a bad thing today. What happened to retrying untill you finally succeed and feel great about it.

I could never finish sonic 1 as a kid, but I still loved the game.

 And of course the level select cheat made things a whole lot easier lol  :P

The day when I finally finished sonic 1 from beginning to end without the level select cheat felt really satisfying. I think that was around the age of 11.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 07, 2010, 01:05:20 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
Back in the Megadrive days Sonic was the most mainstream hardcore game. There were no casuals back then. The market has changed and so did the core demographics for Sonic 4 I believe.

Bullshit, boy. No casuals? This Sonic came from 1991 remember? All those licensed platformers, you don't think it ripples out? You don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about. I was a few years ahead of you in gaming, but I know you remember the scene, how it was.
We had some easy games, for real. Wasn't about guns so much as knowing what to do with your hands. Those boys could really rack. My father had me on the casual platformers, but like any young man, I wanted to be hard too, so I'd turn up at all the house parties where the tough boys hung. Shit, they knew I wasn't one of them. Them hard cases would come up to me and say, "Go home, schoolboy, you don't belong here." Didn't realize at the time what they were doing for me. As casual as games were back then, we had us a community. Nobody, gamer, who didn't matter. And now all we got is arguments, and predatory motherfuckers like you. And out where that Sonic 4 came out, I saw kids acting like crackdude, calling you by name, glorifying your ass. Makes me sick, motherfucker, how far we done fell.

*Cough* (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmgghlEagA)



In all seriousness though, there were casuals back then, there always were. Even if not, the game was still designed to be easy as possible for anyone to play, which seems to fit into that 'casual' mindset.

Anyway, we've had this argument a million times. Sega Stylista thinks everything he doesn't personally like is a 'casual' move.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 07, 2010, 03:36:13 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
In all seriousness though, there were casuals back then, there always were. Even if not, the game was still designed to be easy as possible for anyone to play, which seems to fit into that 'casual' mindset.

No one is arguing that there were casuals back the fact it there are much more of them today enough so that they influence game design.

Gaming demographics have changed significantly from 1991.  It's a FACT MM, why can't you recognize it and extend the obvious logical conclusion from it?

Incidently, have you ever played Super Mario Bros 2 the Famicom version?  Are you going to tell me that Miyamoto was making a platformer for casual Mario players?  That game was hard as hell.  Even Sonic 1 is very hard by casual standards.  Are you going to tell me that the fact you can get 100's of lives and infinite continues in Sonic 4 is not a deliberate casual change?

Quote
Anyway, we've had this argument a million times. Sega Stylista thinks everything he doesn't personally like is a 'casual' move.

No, MM, unlike you I have worked in a corporate marketing department and I know how products are conceived in a product planning process.  I know how products are engineered towards maximizing sales to the demographics they are selling to.  It's not some guy being lazy scratching his ass at Sonic Team with millions of dollars on the line just accidentally coming up with physics that are different from the classics.

I am offering a very simple premise and you just don't want to accept want logically follows from it.  Either say my premise is wrong or offer a different logic. I don't see you doing either.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 07, 2010, 04:09:40 pm
Quote from: "George"
Idiotic, the point of all sonic games was always to be simple. You are an idiot if you think 'all of a sudden' they are playing Sonic to the 'casual' crowd, when that was the intention since he was made.

George, you are the idiot that can't recognize the fact that gaming demographics changed massively from 1991 and then extend the obvious logical conclusion from it.

What part of the gaming demographics changed massively from 1991 is such a challenge of rational comprehension to you?

It's a FACT.  Extend the obvious logical conclusion... I know you can do this.

example:

Submachine guns are sold to a dedicated audience.. If the demographic for submachine guns was widened to include everyday fuckwads like gaming does today, how would that impact the design?

Are the demographics that owns iphone and plays games on it the same that was playing Sonic 1 back in 1991?  Would their demographic have been in the arcades in the late 80's early 90's? Could go on forever.

My frustration is that I get the problem. Other than Crackdude, seems like the rest of you don't and yet you complain to no end expecting something to happen when it is never going to under the current market conditions.  At least you guys could start a movement towards more hardcore game style, which is what I've tried, but instead you are just waiting for Sega to transform to something it was in a totally different era and give you the games you want even though you represent a whopping total 1.5% of the market to them today.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 07, 2010, 05:29:36 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Back in the Megadrive days Sonic was the most mainstream hardcore game. There were no casuals back then. The market has changed and so did the core demographics for Sonic 4 I believe.

Bullshit, boy. No casuals? This Sonic came from 1991 remember? All those licensed platformers, you don't think it ripples out? You don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about. I was a few years ahead of you in gaming, but I know you remember the scene, how it was.
We had some easy games, for real. Wasn't about guns so much as knowing what to do with your hands. Those boys could really rack. My father had me on the casual platformers, but like any young man, I wanted to be hard too, so I'd turn up at all the house parties where the tough boys hung. Shit, they knew I wasn't one of them. Them hard cases would come up to me and say, "Go home, schoolboy, you don't belong here." Didn't realize at the time what they were doing for me. As casual as games were back then, we had us a community. Nobody, gamer, who didn't matter. And now all we got is arguments, and predatory motherfuckers like you. And out where that Sonic 4 came out, I saw kids acting like crackdude, calling you by name, glorifying your ass. Makes me sick, motherfucker, how far we done fell.

*Cough* (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmgghlEagA)



In all seriousness though, there were casuals back then, there always were. Even if not, the game was still designed to be easy as possible for anyone to play, which seems to fit into that 'casual' mindset.

Anyway, we've had this argument a million times. Sega Stylista thinks everything he doesn't personally like is a 'casual' move.
This put a smile on my face  :lol:

As for the "easy as possible for anyone to play", well.. Take a shmup like Mars Matrix for example. Anyone can play it, there's only move and shoot. But it's still though, and if you don't know what you're doing you'll lose quickly.

And I remember for example having a friend of mine play Sonic 1 and complaining she couldn't time the jumps correctly on those pillars over spikes in act 2 or 3 of GHZ. Had there been internet back then she could be on some forum complaining how the physics were all wrong...

Sonic involves skill and precision. Sonic 4 eases a bit.

But I do agree that the core demographics have changed considerably. I think that's the main reason for the change.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: fluffymoochicken on November 07, 2010, 06:18:34 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
*Cough* (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmgghlEagA)
*Cough* (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKX4LktBI5o#t=2m56s)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 08, 2010, 01:51:09 am
You know what, I just realised how rude I sounded earlier, so I apologise for that Sega Stylista. I try not to be offensive, but sometimes I slip up.

Anyway, I still have to disagree with you that the physics were designed that way to appeal to casual fans, I can definitely see your line of thinking, but I just don't see the correlation myself. The homing attack I could see clearer, but I also think that was just poor design in their part as I don't see the benefit of a homing attack in a 2D game, I don't even see it making the game substantially easier, just a strange choice.

As for the demographics changing though, do you have any solid evidence to suggest this? Things have changed, but I bet that games like Modern Warfare 2 and Halo would still have been big sellers back in the day. Look at the runaway popularity of EA Sports titles back on the Mega Drive for an example. Things have changed, but there will always be high-concept games that appeal to lots of people (Sometimes they are genuinely very good games too).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on November 09, 2010, 06:43:48 pm
Back then, casuals and hardcore gamers didn't really exist. Its more broad now a days.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 10, 2010, 02:07:29 am
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Back then, casuals and hardcore gamers didn't really exist. Its more broad now a days.

I remember the terms 'casual' and 'hardcore' being tossed around as early as '97 or so around the Sega Saturn's era. I remember someone writing a letter into Sega Saturn Magazine complaining about 'Casual' gamers.

I think they did exist back then, think about it, there were still people playing games like FIFA and Movie-tie ins and not getting more niche stuff.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 10, 2010, 07:48:37 am
I was a casual from '91 through to '97. Nearly all of my games were Sonic, Disney Interactive, Ninja Turtles (Hyperstone Heist!). At around 13 years old I started playing stuff like Tenchu, Virtua Fighter, RPGs and Shmups. I definitely remember there being a designation between casual games and hardcore games as early as when Mademan is referring to.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 17, 2010, 12:07:42 pm
Feedback session footage!

http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/20 ... f-america/ (http://www.sonicstadium.org/articles/2010/11/the-sonic-show-56-live-from-sega-of-america/)

I gotta admit, I was cringing at the moments when fans were going a bit too Comic Book Guy nerd rage over things. It also throws me off to see people younger than me getting so worked up over a Sonic game. Of course, we've discussed this in the past on the forums so I won't get into it again. Still, glad SEGA held the session.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 17, 2010, 04:14:11 pm
Session was great. I think it deserves to be on the front page.

Here the video

[youtube:1s74pqcs]JhU5MP6mNHk[/youtube:1s74pqcs]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Stylista on November 17, 2010, 08:59:20 pm
[youtube:2nsey78t]JZV5UNS2y60[/youtube:2nsey78t]

Hardcore physics

That video perfectly contrasts the old-school game's hardcore physics to the casual physics of Sonic 4.  

Slower acceleration, uncurling, homing attack, and drop-stop physics are all casual elements to make the game more accessible to iphone casuals playing with their virtual d-pad and Sonic Rush DS playing kids.

Take drop-stop physics for example.  It allows fast forward momentum while coming up with a cheap method to avoid over-shoot and diminishes the need for precision timing.  Uncurling gives Sonic a little mid-air play requiring less accuracy from the casual player.

If you look at a lot of the review and fan feedback for Sonic 1 & 2 iphone there were a lot of complaints about the game being hard to play and too fast for the virtual d-pad.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 18, 2010, 01:28:31 am
^And the standing on walls? Also, Uncurling isn't a physics related issue, and doesn't that actually make things harder since you are more vulnerable?

Either way, I do see where you are coming from.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 18, 2010, 08:05:01 am
Posted this on the front page story, but I'm reposting it here:

RubyEclipse wrote up an excellent reply to the impressions: http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php? ... ntry529657 (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=23427&st=60&p=529657&#entry529657)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 20, 2010, 09:40:08 pm
So I finally gave the demo a shot.

Good lord this game is ugly as sin. Like, really the Sonic Animation/design looks horrible and the speed boosters in particular look horrendous.

Gameplay isn't as bad as I thought, but still feels a bit off. Yeah, don't think I'll be buying this one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: fluffymoochicken on November 20, 2010, 10:38:48 pm
Well, if you've waited this long, then yeah I would suggest waiting for it to eventually go down in price. ^^ The pre-rendered backgrounds aren't too bad once you get used to them though. I really like the way that the casino and ruins stages looked especially (damned if I can remember their names).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 20, 2010, 10:52:39 pm
It's not the backgrounds, I didn't mind them so much as Sonic's look and animations (Particularly the running at full tilt) and the really odd looking speed boosters. They look like 2D Vector Sprites or something compared to the 3D of everything else.

I didn't really dig the controls either, not that the demo gives you much chance to try things out with only one act. Well I guess if they gave us a whole stage, that would be one quarter of the game so...

I don't think I'll buy it even if it was dropped in price.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 21, 2010, 02:54:56 am
Gameplay starts feeling smooth on the 3rd level or so, normally cause you're used to the old ones.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 21, 2010, 03:37:25 am
^Yeah, I could feel myself getting used to it even in the demo, it does take a while to get out of the old game's mindset.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: crackdude on November 21, 2010, 05:12:17 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
^Yeah, I could feel myself getting used to it even in the demo, it does take a while to get out of the old game's mindset.
True. But after the initial bump it's pretty easy to have a smooth control experience.. The level design helps quite a bit too. I think that if something bothers you about it in the demo, don't get it right now. But I wouldn't miss it at discount price if I were you.. ;)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: SOUP on November 23, 2010, 09:28:58 am
I played Sonic 2 the other day and actually found myself trying to do the homing move for a quick mid-air speed boost all the time O_o
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 23, 2010, 10:15:51 am
Quote from: "SOUP"
I played Sonic 2 the other day and actually found myself trying to do the homing move for a quick mid-air speed boost all the time O_o

HA! Same here. I switch between Sonic 1, 2 and 4 on my iPod Touch which makes it even worse. I try homing in 2 and spin dashing in 1, then I try to do the halfpipe roll in 4.  :oops:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 23, 2010, 10:56:33 am
Sonic 4 episode 1 sales:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3165 ... r_2010.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31658/InDepth_Xbox_Live_Arcade_Sales_Analysis_October_2010.php)

To be honest even though I dislike the game I expected it to do a lot better than this... especially when you consider the "name".

I think a lot of the legit things that have been pointed out made an uproar throughout the net causing an uproar, may have played a role. Also the price tag of course. The price tag threw me off immediatly since I knew the game was just going to have 4 zones. And than the overall presentation. The production value and overall appeal of art design.

All of these factors may have played a role. Sega, better luck next time. Listen to the fans.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 23, 2010, 11:06:08 am
Note the "*" that states "* stats lower due to limited knowledge", so this is hardly the full number.

Quote
Still, Sonic 4 was able to add 15,728 players in its first week for a total of 22,698. The sales itself would be quite a bit higher -- potentially two or three times, we might guess -- considering the requirements. Dead Space was too difficult to tell, and it’s a shame that we don’t have the Top 20 to deal with.

I'd bet it jumps up close to Comic Jumpers number, if not surpassing it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 23, 2010, 11:11:53 am
Those numbers are not reliable at all. And as Barry pointed out, are quite misleading. I do not believe the internet has had any major effect on the games sales or as much as people think it has, or else Mad World would have been a raging success.

Mike Hayes also had an interview a few weeks back claiming that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is selling beyond SEGA's expectations. So I doubt those numbers are an indication of anything.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 23, 2010, 11:14:47 am
Speaking of sales and stuff, how much of a percent does MS, Sony and Nintendo make off of downloadable titles?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 23, 2010, 12:42:27 pm
Ah damn, guess I made myself look like a fool jumping to conclusions like that -_-. Ignore my stupidity.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on November 23, 2010, 12:49:55 pm
No worries, we all jump to conclusions sometimes. :)

[youtube:37ac1j87]FxcLjA6ZmnI[/youtube:37ac1j87]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 23, 2010, 01:01:48 pm
Yeah it has been said already but... That site seems to be just taking random stabs in the dark at sales numbers with little to no evidence and none in the case of Sonic 4 and Dead Space.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on November 23, 2010, 03:42:43 pm
Posted the latest FADE numbers (they are trying to be the NPD of digital sales, they feed numbers to companies, including SEGA). Oct Sonic 4 came in 2nd, with 98k. (only XBLA)

Front page
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: fernandeath on November 25, 2010, 05:26:54 pm
Sonic 4 was one of the '10 biggest gaming disappointments of 2010' according to IGN:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1136938p1.html (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/113/1136938p1.html)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 25, 2010, 05:36:06 pm
That's interesting, especially considering their review of the game. Silly IGN
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: fernandeath on November 25, 2010, 06:10:59 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
That's interesting, especially considering their review of the game. Silly IGN

They gave Gran Turismo 5 an 8,5/10 and it places in second in that list.

Also, Final Fantasy XIII got an 8,9/10 and it's the biggest disappointment of the year in their opinion.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on November 25, 2010, 08:15:46 pm
The list was really stupid. Sonic 4 "Short" even though it has 2 more episodes? Really? Oh, "BEING VERY GOOD IS NOT ENOUGH" God what is this?

Pokemon is on there?

Oh, its by Australians. That explains everything.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 26, 2010, 01:19:22 am
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Oh, its by Australians. That explains everything.

Because Australians are NOT gamers. (http://http://www.usps.org/highwaymariners/images/US%20Flag%20waving.gif)
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on November 26, 2010, 02:15:22 am
MadMan summed it up perfectly. If we were collecting Kangaroos or talking about Mad Max then we would listen.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 26, 2010, 02:36:24 am
To be fair I do kinda agree with the whole list, not just s4e1. Australians for the win... or something like  that   :p
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: max_cady on November 26, 2010, 08:01:35 am
After reading the full list, I agree on Final Fantasy XIII. It has without a doubt hurt the overall image of this massive RPG franchise and to be honest I have yet to play a Squeenix game this generation that I liked.

About Sonic 4, well, I only played the trial version thus far, maybe the game didn't quite live up to whatever hype it had, I guess that's fair.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: fernandeath on November 26, 2010, 09:37:55 am
Isn't Final Fantasy XIV  bigger disappointment than FF XIII?
Was everyone expecting it would suck?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: SOUP on November 26, 2010, 10:31:14 am
I don't know anybody personally that's put a significant amount of time into it and not really enjoyed it.
The only people I know that've not liked it, only played the first couple hours, complained that it was too linear and dropped it.
The paradigm system is one of the most intense battle systems in any RPG that I've ever played.  Sure the game takes a while to open it all up, but the sections leading up to that get you to use different paradigms that you wouldn't normally think of, and might be crucial later on in the game.

Thing is, I've played through FF6 and FF9 following 13, and they're just as linear.  Neither game really opens up until at least the halfway point.

That said, they were all games that I really enjoyed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on November 26, 2010, 12:55:41 pm
Guys, chill. It was a joke. (Maybe a cold one but..)
Everyone is a gamer no matter what nation you are from.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 26, 2010, 04:16:52 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Guys, chill. It was a joke. (Maybe a cold one but..)
Everyone is a gamer no matter what nation you are from.

Except Australians.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on November 28, 2010, 01:57:43 pm
Quote
In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running. These changes probably made for a different feel to the longtime Sonic fans. We’re happy for feedback like this, and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles.
http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=143608 (http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=143608)

Better physics in Episode 2?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 28, 2010, 04:00:17 pm
Seriously, what's wrong with this guy?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 28, 2010, 05:12:10 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Quote
In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running. These changes probably made for a different feel to the longtime Sonic fans. We’re happy for feedback like this, and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles.

So I take it this person never played Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehoge CD, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles? The physics system from any of the classic games would allow cieling running.

They really should stop trying to show they know any significant amount of detail of the previous games. They happen to keep getting shown up.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 28, 2010, 05:24:21 pm
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Seriously, what's wrong with this guy?
Do you really expect him to come out and say there were issues with the game?

He would rather alienate a few weird Sonic nerds on the internet then the people that helped make the game which he has to work with.

When you get asked tricky questions you have to 'PR it' with that kind of damage control... It's not just THIS guy it is everyone in the industry, in every industry.

10 years down the line you might hear him say
'We realise we didn't get the physics completely right in Sonic 4 Episode 1... But he would be stupid to say there is anything wrong with it now, while he is working with the same team to make the next part...

Clearly by what he has said they have heard the complaints... Read between the lines.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on November 28, 2010, 06:22:34 pm
Ryan, the problem is that he's not actually addressing any problems with the game. Instead, he's addressing "problems" that shouldn't even be considered problems in the first place!

Most people complained about Sonic's lack of momentum, and his slope behavior. What does "ceiling-running" have to do with any of that? As Aki pointed out, you CAN run on the ceiling in the old Sonic games.

I've already said this before, when Iizuka made that "speed boosters are necessary" comment, but I'll say it again: It honestly feels like I'm reading a quote from that fake Iizuka Twitter account. He's just that ridiculous sounding in these interviews.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on November 28, 2010, 08:10:28 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Seriously, what's wrong with this guy?
Do you really expect him to come out and say there were issues with the game?

He would rather alienate a few weird Sonic nerds on the internet then the people that helped make the game which he has to work with.

When you get asked tricky questions you have to 'PR it' with that kind of damage control... It's not just THIS guy it is everyone in the industry, in every industry.

10 years down the line you might hear him say
'We realise we didn't get the physics completely right in Sonic 4 Episode 1... But he would be stupid to say there is anything wrong with it now, while he is working with the same team to make the next part...

Clearly by what he has said they have heard the complaints... Read between the lines.

Please stop going out of your way to defend Iizuka, it is just silly now.

He was one of the main guys for level design in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles (I also assume he at least tried out some of the other titles), those games had sections where you could run on the ceiling. He had to KNOW how the physics worked to have it in there at all.

It is highly unlikely he forgot that considering it is some of his best known work and was what got him promoted to bigger things, it is more likely that he does not care and is just talking out his ass.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 29, 2010, 01:22:59 am
Iizuka is rubbish at making games, film at 11.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 29, 2010, 03:17:20 am
It's interesting how often I'm told to stop defending the guy when all I'm doing is NOT attacking every thing he does and says. I don't think I've ever said I even like him...

But I just expected people would understand PR speak by now... Granted, he's not very good at it... But I think what really matters here is this line
"and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles."

I just think that picking at everything the guy says with a fine tooth comb is stupid. No producer will flat out say their game is bad and he is clearly dancing around the issue but I suspect he is talking about this gif I've seen quoted every time someone talks about the problem with the physics and how 'broken' Sonic 4 is.
(http://http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e259/mappster43/notBORKEN.gif)


But what I find amusing is that people keep harping on about how terrible Iizuka is for Sonic 4: Episode 1 as if he coded it himself, single handedly. Yet he is in the same position in Sonic 4 as he has been for Sonic Colours, A game that most of us are hailing as the return of Sonic, the best 3D Sonic game in years, if not, ever and possibly the best Sonic game since the 90s...

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (2010) — Producer
Sonic Colors (2010) — Producer

So we can shit on the guy when it suits us but when it doesn't we turn a blind eye? Cool.

Frankly I don't really care for him. Suggesting that I'm defend him here is amusing to say the least. If anything I think I'm just being the voice of reason amongst people that seem irritated when I'm not demonizing him.

At worst his career has been hit and miss, but his latest game Sonic Colours is my favourite Sonic game since the 90's not to mention I enjoyed Sonic 4 dispite the issues.

If anything is 'just silly now' it's demonizing one guy for the faults in Sonic 4.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 29, 2010, 04:09:03 am
^Oh lawd, that gif is hilarious.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 29, 2010, 04:27:33 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
^Oh lawd, that gif is hilarious.

The problem with the gif is that it's a bug, not 'just what happens' I've played the game maybe 20 times now and I've yet to experience this.

People are using it as a 'this is why the physics are broke' but it's got nothing to do with the physics as far as I've experienced the game. It's a bug that I've yet to find...

Also, it's annoying but exactly what I expected that the next comment would ignore the point I was trying to make and go straight for the 'lol gif.'

The whole Sonic 4/Iizuka argument is impossible, if I don't agree that he is the worst thing ever to happen to the Sonic series then I'm a Sonic Team fanboy and defending him and if I point out that he had just as much involvment in Sonic Colours it'll go ignored and tomorrow it'll all be LOL GIF IIKUZA MAKES BAD GAME NEWS AT 11 again.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 29, 2010, 05:42:43 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Also, it's annoying but exactly what I expected that the next comment would ignore the point I was trying to make and go straight for the 'lol gif.'

The whole Sonic 4/Iizuka argument is impossible, if I don't agree that he is the worst thing ever to happen to the Sonic series then I'm a Sonic Team fanboy and defending him and if I point out that he had just as much involvment in Sonic Colours it'll go ignored and tomorrow it'll all be LOL GIF IIKUZA MAKES BAD GAME NEWS AT 11 again.
[/quote]

Yeah, I don't feel like arguing about it to be honest, hence the 'lol gif'. You know how I feel about Sonic Team as a whole and Sonic 4 in particular.

I will say that I'm genuinely surprised at how well Sonic Colours seemed to turn out though, so maybe Iizuka isn't all bad. Although I do think that Sonic Team during Sonic 06 era had to have been the single worst development team to ever walk the earth (hence the 'Iizuka is rubbish' comment).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Aki-at on November 29, 2010, 05:45:44 am
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Although I do think that Sonic Team during Sonic 06 era had to have been the single worst development team to ever walk the earth (hence the 'Iizuka is rubbish' comment).

Iizuka had nothing to do with that team.

The Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog team however...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on November 29, 2010, 10:36:24 am
Sharky is sidestepping everything thrown at Iizuka. I do not care about his work on 4 or Colors, I care about what he has done to the franchise and Sonic Team in general. He IS the reason for the dark story and characters the series obtained when it went 3D including the style change, HE hired many of the people who would work on some of the worst Sonic games of all time, he ruined NiGHTS... He also constantly lies in almost every interview he is in and has proven that he is just not very smart and keeps giving bad PR. One of the worst things is that he will only let Jun Sunoue work on Sonic music anymore when there are dozens of much more talented people that are literally begging for the job, like Nakamura, Jacques and even Tallarico...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 29, 2010, 10:51:21 am
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"

I've already said this before, when Iizuka made that "speed boosters are necessary" comment, but I'll say it again: It honestly feels like I'm reading a quote from that fake Iizuka Twitter account. He's just that ridiculous sounding in these interviews.
^This is my exact view on this. He indeed sounds pretty rediculous.

http://twitter.com/iizukaTakashi (http://twitter.com/iizukaTakashi)  

"The next Sonic game will remove that pesky floor and replace everything with rails for pure action and fun." :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Team Andromeda on November 29, 2010, 10:56:07 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Sharky is sidestepping everything thrown at Iizuka. I do not care about his work on 4 or Colors, I care about what he has done to the franchise and Sonic Team in general. He IS the reason for the dark story and characters the series obtained when it went 3D including the style change, HE hired many of the people who would work on some of the worst Sonic games of all time, he ruined NiGHTS... He also constantly lies in almost every interview he is in and has proven that he is just not very smart and keeps giving bad PR. One of the worst things is that he will only let Jun Sunoue work on Sonic music anymore when there are dozens of much more talented people that are literally begging for the job, like Nakamura, Jacques and even Tallarico...

Sharky is spot on . Iizuka ruined NiGHTS ?  he's the man responsible for the game and the whole dream concept (as we know it); Take it
you're on about NiGHTS JITD, well I blame SOJ for that, for dropping the 360 and PS3 versions and making the team make a Wii version meaning most of the concept and planning work was all useless.
 

Sonic Adv is simply brilliant and my fav 3D platform games of all time. Sonic Adv II was great with some of the best Sonic sections around, and Sonic Colors is bloody awesome and everything I want in a Sonic game,  so wish it was also made for the 360 and PS3.

Don't get the issue over Jun Sunoue. His Sonic tracks have always been brilliant, with Sonic Adv being one of the greatest music scores ever written for any game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on November 29, 2010, 11:09:14 am
Quote from: "Team Andromeda"
Sharky is spot on . Iizuka ruined NiGHTS ?  he's the man responsible for the game and the whole dream concept (as we know it); Take it
you're on about NiGHTS JITD, well I blame SOJ for that, for dropping the 360 and PS3 versions and making the team make a Wii version meaning most of the concept and planning work was all useless.

He did not direct the first game. He is good at level design when he is basically told what to do, but when he is controlling everything, the whole thing falls apart.

The Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 NiGHTS 2 did not get good impressions, many people said it was just not fun. Being on Wii has nothing to do with it... He was the one that suggested the game should have all of that extra nonsense, it just bloated the experience with terrible ideas like the masks and the main portion of the game was even done incorrectly, losing all of the magic of the original game. It had nothing to do with being on Wii...

Quote from: "Team Andromeda"
Sonic Adv is simply brilliant and my fav 3D platform games of all time. Sonic Adv II was great with some of the best Sonic sections around, and Sonic Colors is bloody awesome and everything I want in a Sonic game,  so wish it was also made for the 360 and PS3.

The Adventure games are good, but because they stuck to the basics of gameplay. He is the guy who wanted more gameplay styles and big monsters that overthrew Robotnik. All of this can still be good, but the concept itself is retarded and should not be in the series.

It is something Sharky constantly mentioned, but recently stopped. Unless he started liking it or forgot, he found out Iizuka did all of that and pretended like nothing happened.

Quote from: "Team Andromeda"
Don't get the issue over Jun Sunoue. His Sonic tracks have always been brilliant, with Sonic Adv being one of the greatest music scores ever written for any game.

Jun did not do all of the music from the Adventure games.

I am not trying to say he is one of the worst music directors or anything, he can do some great stuff, but he is the ONLY guy Iizuka wants working on his games, which is why something like Black Knight - Not Iizuka's game - had tons of really great musicians working on it.

Stuff like Heroes' soundtrack was done by someone else inside SEGA, but Iizuka decided to let Jun remix it all with electric guitars and take all of the credit... Terrible. Sunoue directing the overall sound of the series has hurt the games a lot too I think. Because of him we have lost basically every established sound EXCEPT the ring noise.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Team Andromeda on November 29, 2010, 12:58:44 pm
Quote
He did not direct the first game. He is good at level design when he is basically told what to do, but when he is controlling everything, the whole thing falls apart

I never said he was, and you can over state the roll of Director, which is really some Japanese made title for a Senior Producer. Everyone seems to love the Dream concept of NiGHTS, that is thanks to  Iizuka-sand, NiGHTS before that was a very different game.

Quote
it just bloated the experience with terrible ideas like the masks and the main portion of the game was even done incorrectly

?  The main section of NiGHTS play much the same as they did onthe Saturn. The original plan was to use the 360 and PS3 HD graphics to perfectly capture and realise the whole dream concept , Those plans were blown to bits and the Team had to make do with a Wii version and not the best amount of development time

Quote
The Adventure games are good, but because they stuck to the basics of gameplay. He is the guy who wanted more gameplay styles and big monsters that overthrew Robotnik

Iizuka always wanted to make a Sonic RPG and with Sonic Adv he got his wish , and to me its the best Sonic game I ever played. Where I feel Iizuka  was very wrong and foolish was in making Shadow the Hedgehog and trying to make the series appeal to adults (which in a lot of cases it already did)

The Bosses battles I don't agree with , there's almost so many times you can face Egg man as boss, before getting bored.

Sonic Team have at last grasped people just want to play as Sonic and they're making good on that

Quote
Jun did not do all of the music from the Adventure game

I have the OST to the game, and all my fav tracks are done by Jun. I've always like his music for SEGA games, not just Sonic games. I think he's always produced brilliant sound tracks

And speaking of Black Knight it's the worst Sonic 3D game around, even worse than Sonic 06 and you can not blame Iizuka for that. Sonic Colors is brilliant in stark contrast to them
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 29, 2010, 01:24:04 pm
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Although I do think that Sonic Team during Sonic 06 era had to have been the single worst development team to ever walk the earth (hence the 'Iizuka is rubbish' comment).

Iizuka had nothing to do with that team.

The Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog team however...

I stand corrected then.

Still, what happened with NiGHTS is enough for me to not like him very much.

And again, so I don't sound so negative, everything looks to be turning around with Sonic Colours at least.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 29, 2010, 01:25:21 pm
Quote
It is something Sharky constantly mentioned, but recently stopped. Unless he started liking it or forgot, he found out Iizuka did all of that and pretended like nothing happened.

I stopped mentioning it because it stopped being a problem. But everyone here pretty much loved Sonic Adventure when it came out. Dispite half of the gameplay being completely unsonic like. Sonic, Tails, Amy and even Knuckles were good to play.

Either way, Iizuka might suck at PR, but at least half of his games were awesome, including his latest one.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on November 29, 2010, 01:38:27 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"

I stand corrected then.

Still, what happened with NiGHTS is enough for me to not like him very much.

And again, so I don't sound so negative, everything looks to be turning around with Sonic Colours at least.

I don't blame you for thinking the guy was to blame for Sonic 06 considering I've seen him get the blame for all sorts of things now.

But if you look at the most incriminating Sonic games, He's had very little to do with many of them.

Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) — Special Thanks
Sonic and the Secret Rings (2007) — Special Thanks
Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity (2008) — Recording Coordinator
Sonic Unleashed (Xbox 360 & PS3 Version) (2008) — Level Design Special Thanks
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (2008) — Sonic Character Supervisor
Sonic and the Black Knight (2009) — Special Thanks

Between Sonic 06 and Sonic Black Knight was easily the worst period of the Sonic series.

I agree Shadow was a disaster but I honestly think there was pressure to make a shadow game from higher ups after the entire 'Shadow is amazing' period after Adventure 2. The game was a mess and I think they missed the mark by a mile. No excuses. The biggest mistake he made.

NiGHTS JoD suffered from being stopped mid production and moved from one console to another. Again it had some bad design choices but I think half of the game hit the mark and went beyond the original... That being the level art and design, which is still amazing.

All I'm saying is that the guy is, at the very worst... hit and miss.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: MadeManG74 on November 29, 2010, 01:59:32 pm
^I actually didn't mind Sonic and the Secret Rings myself. Maybe it was just that it was a billion times more fun than Sonic 06, but I thought it was alright myself.

As for JOD, I think that the music was probably the best thing about that game, and the whole art direction was pretty good, probably as good as the original But yeah, overall it had some very poor ideas thrown in.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on November 29, 2010, 05:57:37 pm
The ideas in the game where the ORIGINAL ideas. I don't think the ideas where poor (NiGHTS gameplay with platforming sections, instead of awkward walking to NiGHTS platform).

The issue was that it was not executed properly. Probably due to the game starting half its development time on HD consoles then moving to Wii. It obviously needed more development time. It fared 'good' with critics. More so than Sonic Unleashed.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on November 29, 2010, 09:03:28 pm
Sonic Unleashed Wii, Sonic Chronicles, and SATSR did score pretty high...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on November 30, 2010, 12:12:29 am
I honestly cannot believe people are defending Journey of Dreams... It was a disaster. Yes, the music and art are good (I would say the music might be better than the first game even), but the gameplay was just all wrong. They literally went out of their way to remake all of the same concepts, but not do them right. The whole concept of the first game was about lapping the levels to improve your score. This is missing completely and they had the WHOLE FANBASE telling them exactly that this is what they wanted and nothing else... Guess what... They changed it, and then they added the masks and the Pian garden, and the online multiplayer, and the dozen or so minigames, and the horrific and unskippable cutscenes and gave NiGHTS a voice. They ruined every gameplay concept from the first game or just made it worse overall, even elements like the story had incredible amounts of plot holes, something that is actually HARD to do with such a short game.

Rushed my ass, Journey of Dreams is one of the worst videogame sequels of all time. It makes Sonic the Hedgehog 4 seem Godly in comparison.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on November 30, 2010, 09:32:50 am
For emphasis:

“In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running”.


...


..


..


 :lol:
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Team Andromeda on December 01, 2010, 01:03:56 am
Quote
honestly cannot believe people are defending Journey of Dreams... It was a disaster. Yes, the music and art are good (I would say the music might be better than the first game even), but the gameplay was just all wrong. They literally went out of their way to remake all of the same concepts, but not do them right. The whole concept of the first game was about lapping the levels to improve your score. This is missing completely and they had the WHOLE FANBASE telling them exactly that this is what they wanted and nothing else... Guess what... They changed it, and then they added the masks and the Pian garden, and the online multiplayer, and the dozen or so minigames, and the horrific and unskippable cutscenes and gave NiGHTS a voice. They ruined every gameplay concept from the first game or just made it worse overall, even elements like the story had incredible amounts of plot holes, something that is actually HARD to do with such a short game.


You'e being just a bit silly and really unfair . For one thing the team did had time , but a lot of that time was spent pepping the game for the 360 and PS3, and when you have do down grade everything with no extra time,  it will effect the development and a lot of the plans, the gulf between 360 and Wii graphics is massive.

You also then had constant infighting with SOJ and SEGA west; SOJ thinking NiGHTS was a kids game and that should be reflected in the Budget and console to develop on, while SEGA West and the NiGHTS team trying to point out that the kids that  bought the Saturn version have all know grown up and have kids them self's and would be more likely to own a PS3 or 360 . That is not great for any development.

Another fact to bare in mind, was that  Saturn NiGHTS was THE top SEGA project at the time , given a higher priority than any SEGA other  consumer game or any  Arcade game and anything the team wanted the Team would get, NiGHTS II even if it was on the 360 or PS3 was never going to get that sort of R&D spend or priority. When all is said and that the game isn't that bad at all.

IMO a Sequel to NiGHTS should never have been made, but the game isn't that bad

I'll not try and defend the shitfest that was Shadown the Hedgehog, but Iizuka-san has been behind my Fav Sonic games , the man that came up with the whole dream scenario for NiGHTS and just don't get the problem with Jun. When he's made some of the best Sonic and SEGA tunes there is
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on December 01, 2010, 02:21:40 am
Quote
I honestly cannot believe people are defending Journey of Dreams... It was a disaster. Yes, the music and art are good (I would say the music might be better than the first game even),

But those ARE the bits we are defending...
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on December 01, 2010, 09:28:25 pm
Bits... Segabits
lol pun

Ok fine. :|

Can we not post anymore Iizuka quotes? They're all stupidly retarded. Damn it! Shut up Iizuka.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on December 02, 2010, 01:59:21 am
Anyway

So I was playing Sonic 4 again recently and one thing I did notice is the inconsistent level of detail and polish in the art of the levels.

It seems each Zone it takes a big jump forward in level art, backgrounds and such.

I find Splash Hill Zone to be down right ugly... I hate how sterile and almost flash animation the whole thing looks. The backgrounds are dull and ugly. Those bushes that make up most of the background layers are just hideous... I even think the foreground checked boxes look poor; I think they should have made them more textured and earthy like in Sonic Heroes.

Then if you skip to the Lost Labyrinth levels it's worlds away. The backgrounds are interesting, full of detail... It has an almost water colour look about it in the furthest away part of the background. The foreground is very textured and nice to look at.


I'm hoping when Episode 2 comes out all levels are as detailed and nice to look at as Lost Labyrinth or Mad Gear Zone. If not better, I think all the levels needed a 'set piece' background somewhere in the middle of the level.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Autosaver on December 02, 2010, 03:09:31 pm
Casino Street was fabulous to look at..
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Kori-Maru on December 02, 2010, 05:29:02 pm
Quote from: "Sharky"
Anyway
Then if you skip to the Lost Labyrinth levels it's worlds away. The backgrounds are interesting, full of detail... It has an almost water colour look about it in the furthest away part of the background. The foreground is very textured and nice to look at.

True, especially Act 2 and 3. It looks SUPER beautiful on my HDtv.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on December 02, 2010, 06:37:16 pm
I wonder if Splash Hill was the first zone art to be completed, and they didn't really "get" the look of the game down until designing later zones like Lost Labyrinth and Mad Gear?

I prefer the watercolor-like super detailed environments like LLZ over SHZ and CSZ.

In episode 2 I'd love to see a more realistic setting, like a dense forest, for the first act as well as an ice zone (always lovely to look at), a mechanical tropical hybrid and an environment not seen before in a 2D Sonic game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: SOUP on December 02, 2010, 07:43:41 pm
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Casino Street was fabulous to look at..

Ditto. Highlight of the game for me.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: George on December 02, 2010, 10:39:26 pm
I like Mad Gear Zone. I like the whole steam punk clockwork look. But then again, nothing was really original. Not that many designs in Sonic levels have been that original over the years.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on December 03, 2010, 02:16:44 am
Lost Labyrinth was by far my favourite stage setting, I love the water colour look of the backgrounds and the music really sets the scene. Although it isn't my favourite level to play... That would probably be the Casino Street, act 2.

But I think we can all agree that Splash Hill just felt really to simple and cheaply made.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Dr. SEGA Monkey on December 16, 2010, 09:40:05 am
This thread isn't dead yet! Check out the new Sonic 4 Avatar items!

http://http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/12/15/new-sonic-4-avatar-items-are-here/

(http://http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5263698393_5fe31da262.jpg)

This one looks like they took Barry's fake box/cartridge idea.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on December 16, 2010, 09:57:14 am
if they used my art, i could totally sue them! :D
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on December 19, 2010, 01:35:02 am
That is so much cooler than the actual game, and I practically hate Xbox Avatar stuff!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Chaosmaster8753 on December 22, 2010, 09:50:27 pm
I'm kinda interested in those emeralds, badnik toys, and Sonic plush.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Wilhelm on December 25, 2010, 11:00:07 am
how is this game anyways? I refuse to get it until al lthe episodes come out and it goes on sale.
I heard it's short as heck.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sloth_26XX on December 25, 2010, 11:39:23 am
Quote from: "Wilhelm"
how is this game anyways? I refuse to get it until al lthe episodes come out and it goes on sale.
I heard it's short as heck.

That's a toughie really. Episode 1 is one of the most controversial games I've come across. Some praise it as the return of classic Sonic game play, some see it as an insult (a bat to the noggin if you will), and others just think it's okay. Impressions on this game are all over the place. And Yeah the game is short, and thanks to hackers players now have one less reason to replay the game.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Chaosmaster8753 on December 25, 2010, 12:32:33 pm
Quote from: "Wilhelm"
how is this game anyways? I refuse to get it until al lthe episodes come out and it goes on sale.
I heard it's short as heck.

Play the Trial on XBLA/PSN to get a glimpse of it and determine if you think it's worth playing.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: CrazyT on December 25, 2010, 01:04:54 pm
Yeah, i'd like to read your impression as well after trying out the demo.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on December 25, 2010, 03:38:38 pm
I think it will depend on how much you appreciate the original games. If you just like them and not have any connection to them, you will probably be good to go. If you think they have some of the best game design ever, then you will be sorely disappointed.

Even then, it depends on how much you like platformers I guess. If you have played hundreds, you will probably think Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is rather weak overall. Most people will be fine with that because they have not played that many.

The price is a bit hard to recommend by, but if you do not mind waiting I am entirely certain that the whole set of games will eventually be bundled together on one disc.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: max_cady on January 06, 2011, 03:11:58 pm
Well, I finished the game. Took me two days.

At first, I wasn't quite going along with it, but I've been that way since the start.
I started to cozy up to the game in the following months.

And now I've played through it.

You know, it's actually a good game! Sure I was pissed off at the final boss with a huge difficulty spike that was just out of place.

I played through all the stages, I liked Splash Hill Zone a lot, Casino Night Zone is also pretty good. I kinda hated Lost Labyrinth because the way the level was designed it was a little hard to predict what would come up next, resulting in a lot of cheap deaths. But it had some clever puzzles.

I found Mad Gear Zone to be the most fun stage I went through, even if it featured some of the most annoying enemies from Sonic 2.

Again, the physics that a while to get to. But after that you just go with it. It feels weird that Sonic feels so heavy, because in comparison, when I play Sonic Unleashed and seeing how freaking fast Sonic is, in the old games and in this new game, it feels like Sonic is carrying lead on those sneakers.

And again, all of this depends on how you feel.

This game is either an insult or an homage, depending on the fact that you either hated it or loved it, respectively.

If you go by what a lot of people say on NeoGaf, it's probably the biggest disaster since the Titanic and the Hindenburg combined. If you start reading a couple of professional reviews, it's apparentely pretty good.

So... take your pick, really.

You might have fun with this game, you might feel that your childhood has been rapped and shot in the face, then rapped again.

I liked it. A part of me, considering how the stages in this game are pretty close representations to earlier Sonic games, it feels  unnecessary.

To me, I have one only gripe, is that a lot of people are complaining this game is short.

Let's take a second to break this down, critics have been pissing and moaning over how different gameplay styles ruin Sonic, how it has too many characters and they all hurt Sonic, but then when a Sonic that solely features Sonic and it's way too short, the obvious answer is: NO F***ING S***!

There are no other playable characters, hence, there's 0 variety in gameplay or nothing else to play once you're finished with Sonic.
And considering that all you do in this game is just getting to the end of the stage and considering how fast the character is, it doesn't take long till you finish it. Sonic Team could've added 1 or 2 extra stages in this episode and it would still only add about 20-30 minutes of extra game time.

Sometimes, be careful what you wish for, 'cause you might just get it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on January 06, 2011, 03:26:40 pm
I have a feeling that when ep2 hits, and Tails becomes playable, you'll be able toplay ep1 as him. At least, that's how it BETTER be. I could see it easily being possible, all they'd need to do is replace the bubble chains with rings or spike balls that float up and down. That way, instead of doing homing chains as Sonic does, you fly as Tails does. The rings act as a hint towards the direction to go, the floating spike balls act as obstacles that Tails would have to fly and avoid. Knuckles would easily translate to Sonic's stages, via flying through the existing bubbles chains and bopping each enemy with his knuckles.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: max_cady on January 06, 2011, 05:54:58 pm
Loved that little Tails nod in that one cutscene before you fight the final boss.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on January 06, 2011, 06:38:43 pm
Yeah, it seems that my favorite bits form the game were actually what came after the game was delayed (the rocket cutscene, road of cards, the torch lighting stage, the world map).
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on January 07, 2011, 01:06:10 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
Loved that little Tails nod in that one cutscene before you fight the final boss.
?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sega Uranus on January 07, 2011, 01:27:35 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "max_cady"
Loved that little Tails nod in that one cutscene before you fight the final boss.
?

When you go to space, the rocket Sonic uses that just somehow happens to be there has Tails' logo on it.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: max_cady on January 07, 2011, 01:03:53 pm
Speaking of which, how did he get down from Eggman's Space Station?
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on January 07, 2011, 01:36:25 pm
He rode a piece of E.G.G. Station wreckage like a snowboard from the sky down to a mountain slope in Splash Hill, then hopped off the board to run through the end sequence.

[youtube:2j720rjs]X8u7px_GzWQ[/youtube:2j720rjs]
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: max_cady on January 07, 2011, 03:05:37 pm
But that's prepousterous, he couldn't do something like that...

Oh, wait...
[youtube:2ydfm5v5]aA-yILpGYro[/youtube:2ydfm5v5]

(http://http://i53.tinypic.com/i28wt5.jpg)
Sonic does what Chuck Norris Doesn't!
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Sharky on January 07, 2011, 08:22:46 pm
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "max_cady"
Loved that little Tails nod in that one cutscene before you fight the final boss.
?

When you go to space, the rocket Sonic uses that just somehow happens to be there has Tails' logo on it.

Oh, I never spotted that... Nice.
Title: Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Post by: Barry the Nomad on January 11, 2011, 08:02:13 pm
F'ing insane speed run!
[youtube:3lrgmcap]jXv82kusWbY[/youtube:3lrgmcap]