SEGAbits Forums

Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on December 13, 2012, 12:30:10 pm

Title: The Sega Family
Post by: ROJM on December 13, 2012, 12:30:10 pm
In another topic, BTN posted a pic ofa promo peice for SASASR:T

(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Sonic___SEGA_All-Stars_Racing-PCArtwork4539Sonic_Racing_Group-600x362.jpg)

It made me wonder if Sega truly has a better line up of characters to do these type of "All star" games compared to someone like Nintendo or Capcom.
In Nintendo's case, are all their franchises household names or is it just Mario,Zelda and Pokemon? Granted that Nintendo has always been conservative in how they exploit their IPs but when they do and manage to get them to be a success how many of them outside the big three would anyone know of the top of their head?
In Sega's case,the only time they were truly succesful in creating games that were household names was in the nineties and that was thanks to Sega promoting these characters really well.
Back then everybody had heard of not just Sonic but Ecco and Toejam and Earl as well. Nowadays Sega's seem to have lost the ability to promote a game, let alone a good game. But do they promote the right characters? For instance, is a character like Billy Hatcher a true Sega Superstar over a character like Vector Man or even one of the characters from Burning Rangers? I mean really which of those characters have more of a good steed with Sega supporters? More importantly which of the three games have many Sega supporters actually played. I can only guess but it wouldn't be BH since(unless i am presuming too much) most of us had a megadrive/genesis and a saturn where buying Sega games were more easier instead of having to choose between three non sega systems in order to figure out which one of them was going to get Sega's full support.
Should a character in these type of games should only be chosen by their status and stock within Sega fandom? And would people object to having second party Sega characters like Dynamite Headdy(treasure) and Bayonetta or jack(Platinum) feature in these type of titles and leave out the western made Sega characters altogether?
Its cool that Sega is making an attempt to pool various franchises in particular and various cameos ,be it the YAKUZA characters appearing in BINARY DOMAIN or various Sega RPG characters being playable in PHANTASY STAR PORTABLE or the recent ALLSTAR card pack for SAMURAI AND DRAGONS. But should Sega really go further to promote themselves better and their history by at least giving you a fuller picture of their history and rather than a bit of it like previous titles of this ilk has done so many times. Its seems especially now after the absence of a singular Sega system that these all star games is the best way to promote Sega and their efforts past and present. The question is are they going the right way about it?
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Barry the Nomad on December 13, 2012, 01:06:17 pm
Just to add another pic, here is an ASRT roster image that I had been putting together:

(http://i.imgur.com/tSaWM.jpg)

I think the Heritage and Vintage collections could go a long way in educating gamers on SEGA's past games. They need to expand it, though, with more Saturn titles and give us more Vintage Collections featuring games that have yet to make compilations.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 13, 2012, 03:34:32 pm
Just to add another pic, here is an ASRT roster image that I had been putting together:

(http://i.imgur.com/tSaWM.jpg)

I think the Heritage and Vintage collections could go a long way in educating gamers on SEGA's past games. They need to expand it, though, with more Saturn titles and give us more Vintage Collections featuring games that have yet to make compilations.

they should include hot blaze of streets of rage
right or wrong?
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Kori-Maru on December 13, 2012, 11:42:55 pm
I'll just leave this here. From the Sega All-Stars Pack for Samurai & Dragons in Japan.
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/141pel2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ROJM on December 14, 2012, 06:19:48 am
they should include hot blaze of streets of rage
right or wrong?

But that's what im getting at, Sega not only have failed in ultilising their legacy but keep failing due to bad luck relaunch key franchises.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Nameless 24 on December 14, 2012, 08:37:34 am
Nintendo seems to have a better line up in Smash Brothers then SEGA has with any All-Star Game.

It kind of works since they have many franchises they seldom use or have forgotten about for years.

When Kid Icarus and Lucas were added to the roster the Nintendo fans went crazy with joy!

Although we can say the same thing for Vyse/Joe/Gilius and AGES, the results seemed to have been diluted because the selection was pretty poor.

ASR has better variety but again I don't think some of the selection were praised as much as I expected...I loved the Bonanza Bros but hardly anyone has played the game (those that did weren't exactly fond of the inclusion).

I think if SEGA were to exploit the franchises better in the future, then the collections would definitely be the right way to do it!
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 14, 2012, 03:00:18 pm
Nintendo seems to have a better line up in Smash Brothers then SEGA has with any All-Star Game.

It kind of works since they have many franchises they seldom use or have forgotten about for years.

When Kid Icarus and Lucas were added to the roster the Nintendo fans went crazy with joy!

Although we can say the same thing for Vyse/Joe/Gilius and AGES, the results seemed to have been diluted because the selection was pretty poor.

ASR has better variety but again I don't think some of the selection were praised as much as I expected...I loved the Bonanza Bros but hardly anyone has played the game (those that did weren't exactly fond of the inclusion).

I think if SEGA were to exploit the franchises better in the future, then the collections would definitely be the right way to do it!

they were nerds thats why they were happy with their nerd family
come of of it bro sega was so much better and so was the crew.
we have shinobi aight. they have what?
we got sonic. and sonic in those days was a fast blue rocking hedgehog. mario is a fat ass mofo
we have axel blaze adam max. they have shit
all they got is this mario nerd
i only give props for metroid .

i dont mean to be f up. but seriously the family of nintendo are basically gay.
dont be surprised when u find out that 99 prcent of the nintendo community are either gay or bsexual.
with the sega family we have serious characters. even monkeyball.

just look at it yo

Gaysection;
mario
zelda
kid icarus
they gayness at top yo

ok straight is the metroid series

ok now go on sega
answer that. u will not be able i tell ya

sonic. fast thug
yakuza. killing spree for real
golden axe. slash the mofos
sor123  kill them thugs
immortal: not known t many of ya. probably a 21 year or older game
monkeyball. game for stoneys who wanna chill at home


nintengay should be the real name.
success or no success with the family u gotta stick with the family that is normal.
and nintendo yeah it had its past with nintendo the gay master. and the mario bros stuff

ok yeah srry for the emotional addon to this topic but in my opinion in the past and present and future sega will always be the winner when about the family.

thats wassup
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Barry the Nomad on December 14, 2012, 03:03:56 pm
semmie, I'm giving you a warning on your account for the use of "gay" as an insult. It's offensive and not allowed on the forums. If you hate Nintendo, just say you hate it. Don't bring homophobic high school jargon into the conversation.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Kori-Maru on December 14, 2012, 03:32:46 pm
I agree with Barry, it's fine that you don't like Nintendo. Some of us feel the same way but please try to tone down certain terms on this forums.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 15, 2012, 05:48:26 am
I never understood the point of simply choosing a side and sticking with it, sure this is a Sega fansite but what is the reason for blind hate of Nintendo or even the TurboGrafx back in the day?

Console "mascots" essentially died with the end of the 16 bit console wars. The world was crushed by the original PlayStation and if you had to associate a mascot for the console, there really isn't one since the system survived mainly by third parties.

Back on point, I grew up with both my NES and the Master System. Nintendo had pure marketing genius with the launch of the old 8 bit NES. Originally, Nintendo had approached Atari to market the system and it was the stupidest decision in Atari history (other than E.T.) and with Nintendo going it's own and bringing us a home port of the arcade vs. Super Mario Bros., the rest was history.

Sega struggled and originally it was Alex Kidd as the Sega home market mascot. It wasn't till much later that the Alex Kidd franchise was completely forgotten and reintroduced itself with Sonic with the Genesis already two years on the market.

NEC had stuck with Bonk as a console mascot as the game was great with a style all it's own. Nintendo had stuck with Mario as the character was a marketing sensation and included with nearly every NES console ever sold.

To me, Sega aside from Sonic, started developing a identity crisis as there was no new Sonic game for the Saturn other than Sonic Jam which brought back the Genesis titles. Running around in the 3D area of the games various "areas" was the first and the poorly accepted Sonic R were the only memories of Sonic at all during that era unless you owned a Game Gear.

Various types of games were pushed along to give the Saturn some recognition from Bug!, Clockwork Knight (both of which had sequels on the same system and forgotten about just as quickly). Panzer Dragoon did have a captive audience thankfully and the much lesser known Astal.

It wasn't until the release of the Dreamcast that Sega went character crazy! Expanding on the Sonic universe and bringing back games that simply just couldn't be finished on the Saturn (Shenmue started as a Saturn game) and many other games that the Dreamcast simply did so well at bringing to life. The return of Ecco, beautiful arcade ports including the poorly executed Sega Rally 2 (Win CE... Ugh) and the amazing release of many other great titles.

Still, I feel that the Saturn really didn't have such a marketing approach to mascots and various characters as much as the Master System and Genesis before it and the ill fated Dreamcast.

Sega, like Nintendo does have a lot of characters from past games. Many more memorable than others but still. If you consider yourself a gamer, there's no room to hate and defend your purchase with your life.

*steps off soapbox...*

One huge request if current Sega producers ever see this....

F-Zero + Wii U = Insanely grateful gamers who still play GX on the Gamecube or Wii... That would be one major fuckin yeah I'm going to buy now moments.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 15, 2012, 07:56:34 am
I never understood the point of simply choosing a side and sticking with it, sure this is a Sega fansite but what is the reason for blind hate of Nintendo or even the TurboGrafx back in the day?

Console "mascots" essentially died with the end of the 16 bit console wars. The world was crushed by the original PlayStation and if you had to associate a mascot for the console, there really isn't one since the system survived mainly by third parties.

Back on point, I grew up with both my NES and the Master System. Nintendo had pure marketing genius with the launch of the old 8 bit NES. Originally, Nintendo had approached Atari to market the system and it was the stupidest decision in Atari history (other than E.T.) and with Nintendo going it's own and bringing us a home port of the arcade vs. Super Mario Bros., the rest was history.

Sega struggled and originally it was Alex Kidd as the Sega home market mascot. It wasn't till much later that the Alex Kidd franchise was completely forgotten and reintroduced itself with Sonic with the Genesis already two years on the market.

NEC had stuck with Bonk as a console mascot as the game was great with a style all it's own. Nintendo had stuck with Mario as the character was a marketing sensation and included with nearly every NES console ever sold.

To me, Sega aside from Sonic, started developing a identity crisis as there was no new Sonic game for the Saturn other than Sonic Jam which brought back the Genesis titles. Running around in the 3D area of the games various "areas" was the first and the poorly accepted Sonic R were the only memories of Sonic at all during that era unless you owned a Game Gear.

Various types of games were pushed along to give the Saturn some recognition from Bug!, Clockwork Knight (both of which had sequels on the same system and forgotten about just as quickly). Panzer Dragoon did have a captive audience thankfully and the much lesser known Astal.

It wasn't until the release of the Dreamcast that Sega went character crazy! Expanding on the Sonic universe and bringing back games that simply just couldn't be finished on the Saturn (Shenmue started as a Saturn game) and many other games that the Dreamcast simply did so well at bringing to life. The return of Ecco, beautiful arcade ports including the poorly executed Sega Rally 2 (Win CE... Ugh) and the amazing release of many other great titles.

Still, I feel that the Saturn really didn't have such a marketing approach to mascots and various characters as much as the Master System and Genesis before it and the ill fated Dreamcast.

Sega, like Nintendo does have a lot of characters from past games. Many more memorable than others but still. If you consider yourself a gamer, there's no room to hate and defend your purchase with your life.

*steps off soapbox...*

One huge request if current Sega producers ever see this....

F-Zero + Wii U = Insanely grateful gamers who still play GX on the Gamecube or Wii... That would be one major fuckin yeah I'm going to buy now moments.

there was a sonic on saturn

like sonic R
and sonic 3d
ok yeah its also on pc. but still.....

dont know if u can count that. but certainly that is sonic

yo ungibbed what about sonic extreme. do u have any knowledge as an ex sega developer? was it really that terrible?
i would kill someone to get this copy. certainly i would like it. just like i like sonic blast homebrew.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 15, 2012, 11:39:48 am
there was a sonic on saturn

like sonic R
and sonic 3d
ok yeah its also on pc. but still.....

dont know if u can count that. but certainly that is sonic

yo ungibbed what about sonic extreme. do u have any knowledge as an ex sega developer? was it really that terrible?
i would kill someone to get this copy. certainly i would like it. just like i like sonic blast homebrew.

What really killed it is the fact that the Saturn really was not very fast with 3D outside of the skilled hands of AM2 (which they did have a bit of a struggle before we got the stunning Virtua Fighter 2).

Sonic R on the Saturn had an odd issue with lighting as most people know. As you raced forward you would see the plain level geometry appear and a half second later, the lighting pop in over the level structures and various obstacles. It was really poorly executed IMO as I've come across third party titles that had colored lighting and textures at a far better quality.

The largest problem with Sonic R really was plain poor execution despite the racing nature of the game, it just didn't "feel" fast like a true Sonic title should. Also in some areas where you needed to dodge something you had no camera control to see where you were going then you're at a dead stop and feeling like Sonic is on a Pride mobility scooter slowly taking off again.

It was very frustrating and that's from a consumer standpoint. I did get a lot of freebies sent to me over the years and after the Saturn was pretty much done, my house was burglarized. Over 100 games (some of which I kept in the shrink wrap for collectibility), my Genesis/SegaCD/32X library as well including my consoles. My Genny setup and three Saturn consoles (among many other things) were all lost.

My homeowners insurance cut me a check for my losses, the collection I once had though would never be able to rebuild as many of the SegaCD games I had were never released.

I got a check for 27 grand for my losses and repairs needed to the glass slider leading to my back yard. Nothing ever came up despite pictures I had given to the police and my insurance company. The highest value item to them was my stereo equipment and speakers and my old boobtube. The games they couldn't place a actual dollar amount on as they simply had no idea of the value.

If I still had my Sega library, jaws would drop. Not only games, but hardware and peripherals. Two arcade racer wheels, five menacers (one was broken) dozens of controllers including arcade sticks, original US gamepads and tons of others.

Even my Neo Geo AES console was taken...

Those fuckers...

I have had ADT security ever since but moved years ago. They were hitting my neighbors homes too while we were all at work.

As you might see, I'm still sour over it.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 15, 2012, 01:54:44 pm
What really killed it is the fact that the Saturn really was not very fast with 3D outside of the skilled hands of AM2 (which they did have a bit of a struggle before we got the stunning Virtua Fighter 2).

Sonic R on the Saturn had an odd issue with lighting as most people know. As you raced forward you would see the plain level geometry appear and a half second later, the lighting pop in over the level structures and various obstacles. It was really poorly executed IMO as I've come across third party titles that had colored lighting and textures at a far better quality.

The largest problem with Sonic R really was plain poor execution despite the racing nature of the game, it just didn't "feel" fast like a true Sonic title should. Also in some areas where you needed to dodge something you had no camera control to see where you were going then you're at a dead stop and feeling like Sonic is on a Pride mobility scooter slowly taking off again.

It was very frustrating and that's from a consumer standpoint. I did get a lot of freebies sent to me over the years and after the Saturn was pretty much done, my house was burglarized. Over 100 games (some of which I kept in the shrink wrap for collectibility), my Genesis/SegaCD/32X library as well including my consoles. My Genny setup and three Saturn consoles (among many other things) were all lost.

My homeowners insurance cut me a check for my losses, the collection I once had though would never be able to rebuild as many of the SegaCD games I had were never released.

I got a check for 27 grand for my losses and repairs needed to the glass slider leading to my back yard. Nothing ever came up despite pictures I had given to the police and my insurance company. The highest value item to them was my stereo equipment and speakers and my old boobtube. The games they couldn't place a actual dollar amount on as they simply had no idea of the value.

If I still had my Sega library, jaws would drop. Not only games, but hardware and peripherals. Two arcade racer wheels, five menacers (one was broken) dozens of controllers including arcade sticks, original US gamepads and tons of others.

Even my Neo Geo AES console was taken...

Those fuckers...

I have had ADT security ever since but moved years ago. They were hitting my neighbors homes too while we were all at work.

As you might see, I'm still sour over it.

ofcourse you are. that is not something that sounds like a joke.

back to sonic R. i loved it tho. and i still do. but on pc the framerate is really better. that is how far my knowledge goes. so yes the fastness wasnt really that fast. but an average ok is well deserved.

to move it up a little bit. you said something about the 3d adaption of the saturn that it was hard to do so.
but if that is truth what you say. and excuse me i am not trying to refute you. but i have to say this to give my point of view.
look at panzerdragoon saga. and look at games like prototype shenmue. how come this games were so beautifull?

surely lets just imagine sega didnt discontinue and was a success. then havin panzer saga 2 would have been the most beautiful game in 32bit history.
not t forget i love to compare. and i played resident evil one on psx and saturn. and for real yo the resident evil 1 of the saturn is so so much better.

sorry if this seems off topic. but ungibbed i have a problem with tha t what yu saying. that 3d story you just gave me.

is there a part im missing in your point?
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Centrale on December 15, 2012, 02:20:35 pm
I think the thing about the Saturn was that it wasn't impossible to make great 3D games for it, but it had more of a challenging learning curve than the Playstation.  It was more difficult due to the complex two-processor architecture.  Programmers who really worked at it could do amazing work.  But ultimately the Playstation was easier to program and had a more helpful development kit.  That's my understanding of it anyhow.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 15, 2012, 02:23:36 pm
The Saturn was a very complex console and somewhat of a mess internally. It was much later in the  Sega's Saturn's life that the two games you mentioned came to be (only one saw actual release).

The other thing is both of these IIRC are second party titles that have a lot more time and budget just as a an exclusive game would. That in mind, the target console is easier to focus and work in Assembly vs C+ libraries or a combination of both.

When you compare a multiplatform title or franchise, games tended to look better on the PlayStation due to a few major factors.

One, the Saturn calculated in quads instead of more common triangles for 3D objects.

Secondly, lighting was not done well on the Saturn often resorting to pixel mesh patterns in place of true transparency on most games.

Finally, developers had to struggle early on due to the dual processor design that didn't have a hardware scheduler. So third parties really didn't get to the full potential of the Saturn due to poor code libraries from Sega's DTS and costs were quite high for development hardware.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 15, 2012, 10:52:14 pm
I compared the Resident Evil games on both systems and the original was a pretty early PlayStation title but the fine details are hard to pick out between them.

I did notice a lot more polygon clipping on the character models as opposed to the PlayStation version. The points where basic bone structure is supposed to be. On the other side of the coin, the PlayStation version of the game was in a 15 bit color space which on a good TV, showed dithering patterns on the 3D elements of the game while the Saturn was in a 32bit color range that didn't show the dithering patterns commonly seen on PS One games

Resident Evil also isn't the best game to compare between the two as as only a small portion of the game used 3D models.

A better comparison is Castlevania SOTN and the Saturn import version. Both are great but you can see the weaknesses in the lighting/transparencies on the Saturn despite the longer development time and extra areas to explore.

Full 3D games such as Pandemonium, Road Rash, and the first Need for speed games really show the differences. Both Road Rash and Need For Speed translated to the Saturn rather well from the original 3DO games as that system also used quadrilaterals for 3D models when it came to using textured polygons.

The PlayStation version of Need For Speed did render much faster but you could see the triangles not quite meshing as well as the Saturn port.

It's a rather complex issue as seen with the original pack in Virtua Fighter when faced against Battle Arena Toshinden. Sega's quickly hurried out VF Remix to avoid such embarrassment. I was a day one Saturn owner and I used to compare many games to the PlayStation versions of a multiplatform game.

Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 16, 2012, 11:01:32 am
I compared the Resident Evil games on both systems and the original was a pretty early PlayStation title but the fine details are hard to pick out between them.

I did notice a lot more polygon clipping on the character models as opposed to the PlayStation version. The points where basic bone structure is supposed to be. On the other side of the coin, the PlayStation version of the game was in a 15 bit color space which on a good TV, showed dithering patterns on the 3D elements of the game while the Saturn was in a 32bit color range that didn't show the dithering patterns commonly seen on PS One games

Resident Evil also isn't the best game to compare between the two as as only a small portion of the game used 3D models.

A better comparison is Castlevania SOTN and the Saturn import version. Both are great but you can see the weaknesses in the lighting/transparencies on the Saturn despite the longer development time and extra areas to explore.

Full 3D games such as Pandemonium, Road Rash, and the first Need for speed games really show the differences. Both Road Rash and Need For Speed translated to the Saturn rather well from the original 3DO games as that system also used quadrilaterals for 3D models when it came to using textured polygons.

The PlayStation version of Need For Speed did render much faster but you could see the triangles not quite meshing as well as the Saturn port.

It's a rather complex issue as seen with the original pack in Virtua Fighter when faced against Battle Arena Toshinden. Sega's quickly hurried out VF Remix to avoid such embarrassment. I was a day one Saturn owner and I used to compare many games to the PlayStation versions of a multiplatform game.

i guess so.
i played sotn on saturn as well. i loved the extras.
and the pixelated lightning is there as u said. so the difference is there. and thats a half 2d game

id like to think that saturn is a better console then psx
it was just harder to use. this brings me to another topic

the sega famil in my opinion is the best family ever u got all kinds of characters. sony doesnt even have one. ok yeah there is this battle star royale. but u cant really say that is playstations. we thought the same about crash bandicoot and it was on gameboy and nintendo as well

ok the scattered sega without a console and base.
but when you look at its characters you cant deny that it is the best. even a nintendo fan gotta admit that.

and ungibbed i happen to be with sega. and i am not a blind follower of sega. just imagine you bought all dem consoles and you loved every game u ever played. and then when there was no consoles and still the sega games. and still u loved every game u played of sega.

surely thats a sign being a sega fan.

im not an extremist i like playing god of war ans assassins creed n all that. but when it comes down to it i like sega the most. and id buy that unreleased freaking console in an instand impulsive way.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Kori-Maru on December 16, 2012, 02:45:44 pm
All I would like to see in the next All-Stars game is to have characters that will appeal to both Western and eastern Sega fans because the last few we're a bit too focused on Dreamcast and Western appeal. I'm sure that people who grew up playing the Genesis would like to see Streets of Rage or and Japanese players who played the Sakura Taisen games.

But if the next one is a fighter with Power Stone gameplay, Sega better gimme some of dat Joe Musashi and Sakura Shinguji. Their All-Star would be unique if executed right.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 16, 2012, 09:14:26 pm

id like to think that saturn is a better console then psx

I'm not here to sway anyone's view or opinion on what they must like, simply sharing my experience from over the years of Sega's great years (and not so great), every company stumbles along the tricky road of gaming. Internally the Saturn was a technical mess but it still had some great games that I miss. Please never think otherwise, I'm a huge fan of gaming in general and still love a few levels of Sonic CD on my phone. ;-)



and ungibbed i happen to be with sega. and i am not a blind follower of sega. just imagine you bought all dem consoles and you loved every game u ever played. and then when there was no consoles and still the sega games. and still u loved every game u played of sega.

surely thats a sign being a sega fan.

im not an extremist i like playing god of war ans assassins creed n all that. but when it comes down to it i like sega the most. and id buy that unreleased freaking console in an instand impulsive way.

As I said before, I am a fan of games and while did give Pokemon an honest shot, I simply didn't care for it. That's no reason to hate on it and other Nintendo franchises that you described earlier (in bad taste/form). There are also some Sega games that are great but I didn't care for. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike a game but I never hate on games I never played or if I dislike a certain franchise, I put reason and a logical explanation why.

I had moonlighted for Sega Visions Magazine in the past and always have been honest about a game and not afraid to express why. As a former writer and writing reviews in the past, I would always back up a negative opinion if I had one. When it comes to other consoles and games, I prefer to spend some time with them before passing judgement.

One thing I love about the Wii is the fact that I can play most of the games from what I consider a golden era of console games most of which were from the 16 bit systems. Super Castlevania IV is one of my all time favorite games along with Super Mario World. I also have a ton of the most popular Genesis titles but annoyed at the lack of Rocket Knight Adventures and the amazing Disney licensed platformers for the system.

Again, no reason for blind derogatory hate on other games. If you don't like them and really feel the need to back up that opinion, explain why. I played Pokemon Red and a Game Boy color to see what made this game so popular with Nintendo fans.

After a few days to me, it felt more frustrating due to the random encounters and my lack of general knowledge of what would be the best creature to use in a battle. If it dies, I got to capture another and get it's stats up. I also dislike random encounters as well but I lived with it playing through Phantasy Star as the game felt more engaging with the 3D dungeons and memorable characters.

Will I say Pokemon sucks ass? No. It just is over my head as there is a information overload to learn for my older brain. I had to ask my nephew for tips on the game as he was more familiar with the creatures. The Pokedex 3D on the 3DS did help much later to understand the stats. One day maybe I will give the game another shot as I dove in with no instruction book or a single clue what to do.

In closing, I'm a much bigger fan of twitch gaming and fast action, bought After Burner Climax and love it. I enjoy being able to dive in a game for fast action and Sega's offerings are more plentiful despite what console a game is on or how old it is. I'm a huge fan of shmups and the console that had the most over the years and some of the best was the TurboGrafx/PC Engine. The system was right up my alley along with a lot of good shooters over the years on my old Master System, Genesis and Sega CD and so on.

Even the best moments I also had on the NES with a friend playing good old Contra!


In the end, hate the haters, not the games. Without them we would possibly still be hitting up sol.exe on Windows despite that I'm a Mac owner (and Mac gamer).
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ROJM on December 19, 2012, 11:25:01 am
All I would like to see in the next All-Stars game is to have characters that will appeal to both Western and eastern Sega fans because the last few we're a bit too focused on Dreamcast and Western appeal. I'm sure that people who grew up playing the Genesis would like to see Streets of Rage or and Japanese players who played the Sakura Taisen games.

But if the next one is a fighter with Power Stone gameplay, Sega better gimme some of dat Joe Musashi and Sakura Shinguji. Their All-Star would be unique if executed right.
Yes that's Sharky's dream as well. but i wouldn't want to see a Sega game copying a capcom game literally, i'd want to see Sega perfect what we have played on Power stone and Fighters Megamix and Super Smash.
The real problem is that sega japan doesn't do the "SUPERSTARS or ALLSTARS series anymore and they are the only ones capable of surpassing SSB and Powerstone. And Sumo Digital hasn't to my knowledge hasn't made a fighter game or shown any intrest in going that route. It also depends if this game has made back its budget and beyond.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 20, 2012, 02:05:25 pm
I'm not here to sway anyone's view or opinion on what they must like, simply sharing my experience from over the years of Sega's great years (and not so great), every company stumbles along the tricky road of gaming. Internally the Saturn was a technical mess but it still had some great games that I miss. Please never think otherwise, I'm a huge fan of gaming in general and still love a few levels of Sonic CD on my phone. ;-)


As I said before, I am a fan of games and while did give Pokemon an honest shot, I simply didn't care for it. That's no reason to hate on it and other Nintendo franchises that you described earlier (in bad taste/form). There are also some Sega games that are great but I didn't care for. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike a game but I never hate on games I never played or if I dislike a certain franchise, I put reason and a logical explanation why.

I had moonlighted for Sega Visions Magazine in the past and always have been honest about a game and not afraid to express why. As a former writer and writing reviews in the past, I would always back up a negative opinion if I had one. When it comes to other consoles and games, I prefer to spend some time with them before passing judgement.

One thing I love about the Wii is the fact that I can play most of the games from what I consider a golden era of console games most of which were from the 16 bit systems. Super Castlevania IV is one of my all time favorite games along with Super Mario World. I also have a ton of the most popular Genesis titles but annoyed at the lack of Rocket Knight Adventures and the amazing Disney licensed platformers for the system.

Again, no reason for blind derogatory hate on other games. If you don't like them and really feel the need to back up that opinion, explain why. I played Pokemon Red and a Game Boy color to see what made this game so popular with Nintendo fans.

After a few days to me, it felt more frustrating due to the random encounters and my lack of general knowledge of what would be the best creature to use in a battle. If it dies, I got to capture another and get it's stats up. I also dislike random encounters as well but I lived with it playing through Phantasy Star as the game felt more engaging with the 3D dungeons and memorable characters.

Will I say Pokemon sucks ass? No. It just is over my head as there is a information overload to learn for my older brain. I had to ask my nephew for tips on the game as he was more familiar with the creatures. The Pokedex 3D on the 3DS did help much later to understand the stats. One day maybe I will give the game another shot as I dove in with no instruction book or a single clue what to do.

In closing, I'm a much bigger fan of twitch gaming and fast action, bought After Burner Climax and love it. I enjoy being able to dive in a game for fast action and Sega's offerings are more plentiful despite what console a game is on or how old it is. I'm a huge fan of shmups and the console that had the most over the years and some of the best was the TurboGrafx/PC Engine. The system was right up my alley along with a lot of good shooters over the years on my old Master System, Genesis and Sega CD and so on.

Even the best moments I also had on the NES with a friend playing good old Contra!


In the end, hate the haters, not the games. Without them we would possibly still be hitting up sol.exe on Windows despite that I'm a Mac owner (and Mac gamer).

i guess im just to radical about sega.
it has nothing to do with your view cause i acknowledge yours cause it is the realistic one.

but emotionally and me choosing sides. which in your point of view is not necessary and again realistically i shouldnt do so. but my genes and dna gives me the urge to be with sega and to battle .$at least im not a crusader ;)

just to explain and seriously i really tried to like nes snes n64 etc.....

ok 1.
before i played nes i played sms. just after i played sms some dude pakistani gave me this nes with mario and duckhunt and he had this womanlike game with this angel cupido shizzle flying like a .... i dont wanna say the word cause i have to be politically correct on this matter.
but most of the time when i inject the cartridge in the nes it woumdnt work unless i blow the mofo out of it.
so after playing it while not moving it i was like yeah lets play batman. i had a laugh for a bit cause that game was not only batman it was a bad man LOL
castlevania was ok tho. but i had to give it the end i didnt like the colors and the games and the cartridge issues.

ok2. i had this snes borrowed. actually he wanted my megadrive for his snes. it was egoistic of me cause i didnt give him the MD. but he gave me the snes with loads of games
final fight? nah sor is better. asterix was all right but i was annoying myself to the joypad somehow it was stiff. ill give them props for MK1 but i liked the gameplay of MK1 on the MD more
and then again i lost the spirit and basically after a 2 days i stopped playing it as for a fact i played it against my will for 2 days

ok3
n64? ok only zelda. and thats really about it. didnt understand the golden eye hype

ok4 gamecube was the first nintendo i appreciated. whie being under rated i enjoyed sonic heroes billy hatcher and even all of them metroids and zeldas. baten kaitos tales of symphonia  project o4 some girl shooting while hearing drum n bass music in the background.
so this is the first nintendo i actually played. it had sega games and i had to choose caus ethere was no sega no mo

ok4 wii
dont like it i hate it so bad wii mote yukh
ok ok ok mortal kombat armageddon with wii mote worked out well and conduit. but it gave me that feeling like i had with the sness. and the zelda that cae out i played it on gamecube. i havent played the newest one yet

wii u.
im not even gonna start playin that


so u see ungibbled
it is nt really only me being a fan. i just dislike it. and not blindly. i just dislike it.
i guess its a matter of taste.

Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 21, 2012, 12:58:45 am
To be honest, with the older systems, you did miss out on a ton of great games. Ones I'd recommend for each system would be...

NES: Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Kirby's Adventure, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Contra (definitely with a friend), River City Ransom, finally, RC Pro AM. (A Mega Drive version exists though)...

SNES: Super Castlevania 4, Legend Of Mystical Ninja, Secret of Mana, Actraiser, Donkey Kong Country.

N64: Ogre Battle 64, Bad Fur Day, Shadowman. Rogue Squadron (with the expansion Pak)

Gamecube: If you didn't get a chance to play F-Zero, find a way! This one came from Amusement Vision. It's brutal and beautiful!



I picked up a Wii for the exclusive titles mainly and the Virtual Console library. There are some gems for the system but it's really the mindset of accepting the motion controls. Red Steel was awful! If you played Metroid Prime 3 or the trilogy, that's a great way to experience Metroid in 3D. The other reasons were Okami and the Zelda titles. Others games I picked up along the way were well worth it. The swan song, Xenoblade Chronicles is perhaps one of the absolute best games for the system if you're an RPG fan.

Sounds to me that you just got exposed to rather average games that even I'd avoid. I myself preferred Streets Of Rage 2 over Final Fight by a long ways.

If anything at all, try getting a shot at F-Zero GX. Sega really did a kickass job on a Nintendo system.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Centrale on December 21, 2012, 11:46:17 am
I had moonlighted for Sega Visions Magazine in the past and always have been honest about a game and not afraid to express why. As a former writer and writing reviews in the past, I would always back up a negative opinion if I had one. When it comes to other consoles and games, I prefer to spend some time with them before passing judgement.

I've been reading back through my issues of Sega Visions recently, and I was surprised to see how critical the reviews were -- especially considering it was the official Sega magazine, primarily a promotional item.  The average scores in those days would be considered rather low these days -- a lot of stuff in the 60s and 70s.  Of course, I'd prefer it if the current perception of 'anything below an 80 sucks' would shift back to something more reasonable and nuanced.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: semmie on December 21, 2012, 01:59:57 pm
To be honest, with the older systems, you did miss out on a ton of great games. Ones I'd recommend for each system would be...

NES: Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Kirby's Adventure, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Contra (definitely with a friend), River City Ransom, finally, RC Pro AM. (A Mega Drive version exists though)...

SNES: Super Castlevania 4, Legend Of Mystical Ninja, Secret of Mana, Actraiser, Donkey Kong Country.

N64: Ogre Battle 64, Bad Fur Day, Shadowman. Rogue Squadron (with the expansion Pak)

Gamecube: If you didn't get a chance to play F-Zero, find a way! This one came from Amusement Vision. It's brutal and beautiful!



I picked up a Wii for the exclusive titles mainly and the Virtual Console library. There are some gems for the system but it's really the mindset of accepting the motion controls. Red Steel was awful! If you played Metroid Prime 3 or the trilogy, that's a great way to experience Metroid in 3D. The other reasons were Okami and the Zelda titles. Others games I picked up along the way were well worth it. The swan song, Xenoblade Chronicles is perhaps one of the absolute best games for the system if you're an RPG fan.

Sounds to me that you just got exposed to rather average games that even I'd avoid. I myself preferred Streets Of Rage 2 over Final Fight by a long ways.

If anything at all, try getting a shot at F-Zero GX. Sega really did a kickass job on a Nintendo system.

f zero rocks.
maybe u remember extreme G. i love those games. dont play them when u have head ache.

;)
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ungibbed on December 22, 2012, 05:27:30 am
I've been reading back through my issues of Sega Visions recently, and I was surprised to see how critical the reviews were -- especially considering it was the official Sega magazine, primarily a promotional item.  The average scores in those days would be considered rather low these days -- a lot of stuff in the 60s and 70s.  Of course, I'd prefer it if the current perception of 'anything below an 80 sucks' would shift back to something more reasonable and nuanced.

We all were pretty harsh but also wanted to share our true feelings of a game with our readers back then. Even when a game came in for licensing evaluation, it was reviewed by all of us regardless of our game preferences (I was the liaison for Working Designs and the only RPG nut there so a passing score was tough but I pushed through what I could). I hated sports games but spent a day learning Madden all over again since the last Madden football game I played was the first EA Genesis game. Much simpler back then. I still sucked at it but for other qualities, I gave quite a few sports titles a passing score except for one...

Prize Fighter for the Saturn. Rehash of the grain fest Sega CD game, only full screen with early, full screen chunky Cinepak. I wrote in my review that as both a consumer and a developer standpoint, this is not a good start for the Saturn. It was canned IIRC.

I loved reviewing and comparing games from over the years and instead of the marketing magazine known as Nintendo Power, I wanted to focus on honest reviews from pure gamer perspective. My specialties were RPG's, strategy (chess and such, I suck at Warcraft 3 even to this day) but managed to struggle by with many Saturn exclusive games such as Dragon Force (the Saturn NEEDED these games to compete) and my guilty pleasure, racing games even to this day.

One strategy game I absolutely loved and got the hang of was Dungeon Keeper and it's sequel on the PC. I kept on EA to at least try and port the first to the Saturn but I was sad that franchise simply was dropped completely. Being a Mac fan, I built a PC gaming rig just for Dungeon Keeper 2 and like many others was very disappointed that it never came to be.

The Dreamcast was the perfect console to bring the game to but still, it never happened.

Glad to hear there are some Sega Visions fans around. I wanted to write for ODCM, but as resources were spread so thin and the publication was losing money by not having enough circulation and readers expecting a demo disc every month, publishing costs were rather high. I kept with GT Interactive as long as I could hang in there and had a rather unpleasant and unplanned early retirement. Now just working on helping RIM get some games on the new BB 10 platform. A new "fun" way to keep busy and hey, got a free tablet for my efforts.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: Kori-Maru on December 22, 2012, 04:20:54 pm
Yes that's Sharky's dream as well. but i wouldn't want to see a Sega game copying a capcom game literally, i'd want to see Sega perfect what we have played on Power stone and Fighters Megamix and Super Smash.
The real problem is that sega japan doesn't do the "SUPERSTARS or ALLSTARS series anymore and they are the only ones capable of surpassing SSB and Powerstone. And Sumo Digital hasn't to my knowledge hasn't made a fighter game or shown any intrest in going that route. It also depends if this game has made back its budget and beyond.
I hope it does. I just hope that the roster expands more than 22 characters and SOA/SOE doesn't mess up.
Title: Re: The Sega Family
Post by: ROJM on December 23, 2012, 08:01:27 am
I hope it does. I just hope that the roster expands more than 22 characters and SOA/SOE doesn't mess up.

Sega West not messing up? Like that will NEVER happen!