Sega at AOU 2010.

[ROJM_old]

Exactly. And another factor. If people are going to use the argument that the arcade teams can make a blinding game as an example to beat another stick at the consumer division then maybe they should realise that the arcade teams are still working on Sega hardware while the consumer teams aren't. The reason these arcade games are great looking because they're designed to be so they show off their technology and catch the eye of the buyers. The consumer division doesn't have that job anymore and it doesn't matter how long it is, these guys were pratically raised since they joined sega to believe that sega hardware tech is the best in the buisness for over 20 years(and in reality longer than that) You can't suddenly turn off that when you are suddenly working on a system that isn't the system you were trained to build games on.

That's an old Argument , that died out with NA@MI II . These days SEGA use off the shelf PC tech , to Power Their Arcade games . To make Games for SEGA Arcade Boards is to program a PC , be it CPU, Be it GPU and right down to Windows.
SEGA have  now had years of Experienced on using  PC tech now ,  to Power its games since Chihiro , then Lindberg and now  RingEdge respectively . Yet that knowledge and tech doesn’t look like it was passed down to the consumer Teams. SEGA long before most Japanese developers , set up a PC division  too .

SEGA Japan should be way ahead on other Japanese developers when it comes to getting the best of the Next Gen consoles really (with their use of PC Tech)  and really use its Arcade teams Tech& know how  of using PC's,  to help out the Consumer Teams. In just the same way SEGA used it's Arcade Teams to help out with or even Join the  Saturn Consumer Teams  , and getting the best out of Dual CPU's very early on.    


Also it’s in SEGA interests to make their Consumer games look as good as possible , and have far better R&D tech and engines to call on
SEGA Consumer Teams need better direction , better R&D support , and in cases of Yakuza , or Sonic more development time for the games .

No it has not. The lindbergh is still built by sega. So was the three boards before that. A sega spin on existing tech but still created by sega nonetheless. Your argument is flawed because of two things. You don't suddenly wash away 20 years of company propaganda just like that. Sega is not like Capcom or other third parties who has experience in developing and switching many cpu platforms. Up to 2001 the consumer teams didn't have that option and most of these guys now don't come from a garage programmer mentality like they did back in the seventies and early eighties.  Second point, The consumer teams are in fact leading. No one has come up with titles like Yakuza or Valykria chronicles which both use unique software tech and engine for their titles. And of course Panzer Dragoon Orta, JSRF among others weren't too shabby either as you yourself keep saying. Their problem with is that the majority of these games haven't translated into strong sales as well as lacking the punch that use to define the sega games of old. That factor alone added to the fact that they are developing on a rival system which essentially in certain cases borrowed ideas from their own hardware isn't exactly a confidence booster.

You can keep playing for attention by being the only one to criticise most Segabit gamers want to get their hands on, or blame a guy who happened to lead two teams with a succesful franchise as being the one who ruined Sonic. That's all it is attention seeking and not really getting to any of the facts.

[Team Andromeda]

No it has not. The lindbergh is still built by sega

That is no different to MS and the X-box . None of the tech inside the X-Box was designed by MS,  It was for the best part , all off the shelf PC Tech
No different to PC boards  Arcade  Boards  that SEGA now use .
The days of custom tech like with Model 3 or NA@MI II are long gone

And of course Panzer Dragoon Orta, JSRF among others weren't too shabby either as you yourself keep saying.

Yes Smilebit were SEGA former PC Division , and Hench why Smilebit were very quickly able to push the PC based X-Box . That's my point  

Sega is not like Capcom or other third parties who has experience in developing and switching many cpu platforms.

Not quite . SEGA been around for a long time , it used and worked on many systems . SEGA more than any Japanese developer should be ahead of the game. It's consoles and Arcade boards have used Western designed  CPU, GPU's, they used Windows , and even Coin Up's like Power Drift had over 4 CPU's to power it . SEGA needs to use its Arcade know how to its Advantage and start sharing it between the teams , and start to make better Multi Platform game engines , ones that use  the PC, but can be translated down to the consoles.

No one has come up with titles like Yakuza or Valykria chronicles which both use unique software tech and engine for their title

Valykrie I would be agree on, its software shader program has yet to be better . Yakuza tech is old hat , and is simply outclassed by the likes of Mass Effect 2 , Heavy Rain for graphics ,and the likes of  FALLOUT for scope .
You take out the brilliant Cut Scenes , and  in game its old tech in terms of shaders and animations

[ROJM_old]

That is no different to MS and the X-box . None of the tech inside the X-Box was designed by MS,  It was for the best part , all off the shelf PC Tech
No different to PC boards  Arcade  Boards  that SEGA now use .
The days of custom tech like with Model 3 or NA@MI II are long gone

Really, then by that defination you can say that on all Sega systems since none of them used processors and some tech not unique to Sega. Again the argument is mute because the arcade teams are the ones building titles on sega created hardware,in a market sega has always been the top of. Completly a different situation as a third party. The question is more of a mental problem rather than physical.

And of course Panzer Dragoon Orta, JSRF among others weren't too shabby either as you yourself keep saying.

Yes Smilebit were SEGA former PC Division , and Hench why Smilebit were very quickly able to push the PC based X-Box . That's my point  

PDO didn't really push the Xbox. let's not exaggerate.

Sega is not like Capcom or other third parties who has experience in developing and switching many cpu platforms.

Not quite . SEGA been around for a long time , it used and worked on many systems . SEGA more than any Japanese developer should be ahead of the game. It's consoles and Arcade boards have used Western designed  CPU, GPU's, they used Windows , and even Coin Up's like Power Drift had over 4 CPU's to power it . SEGA needs to use its Arcade know how to its Advantage and start sharing it between the teams , and start to make better Multi Platform game engines , ones that use  the PC, but can be translated down to the consoles.

Again. once you enter Sega or any other games company in a junior level in any terms of design you are taught the company values of approching that method. Sega was a console maker for over 20 years and before that still creating hardware for arcades. If you have been taught that philosphy and then suddenly forced to create titles for a rival machine of course you are going to find it diffucult. The problem with your argument is that you are trying to convinve people that the consumer teams aren't up to scratch. Well looking at what Sega has done on the DS,The Wii the Xbox and PS3 they are doing EXACTLY what you are accusing them of not doing.  

Valykrie I would be agree on, its software shader program has yet to be better . Yakuza tech is old hat , and is simply outclassed by the likes of Mass Effect 2 , Heavy Rain for graphics ,and the likes of  FALLOUT for scope .
You take out the brilliant Cut Scenes , and  in game its old tech in terms of shaders and animations

Nonsense. Last time i looked the MFE or whatever its called was only been used since this gen and no one has come closed to that facial detail. But again Sega is just using the main Yakuza engine to gain back their investment from it from its multiple sequels, like they would have done with Shenmue and like many other companies do with their respective engines. I don't know why you are signilling Sega out for doing the same like everyone else does.

[Team Andromeda]

There is nothing Custom SEGA tech inside either Lindberg or RingEdge , that the simple truth of the matter. However the GPU inside  the STV-V and Saturn was   SEGA and Unique to SEGA , and while boards like NA@MI II , Model 3 , used off the shelf CPU’s, their GPU were far from that (in NA@MI II case its (Geometry Processor).  Panzer Dragoon Orta it is still one of the best looking X-Box games ever made , and all running at a near perfect 60 fps , not many games came close to Orta , it was pushing and using the X-Box to its fullest  .

NCL started out a Card company , companines  move on and Adapt , they just have too, what did SEGA start out as , becasue it wasn't Consumer or Arcade Videogames that's for sure.  
The like of Id/Epic wouldn't lower them self to work on consoles a few years ago , so would  many PC developers , now they're all on the next gen systems   SEGA Needs to use all the best bits from its Arcade teams , and wake up to making game engines on PC's and then ported them down to consoles , and making far better use of Multi Thread CPU's , not just for this gen , but the next gen too

And as for the last part, I don't really like Mass Effect II , but its characters and in-game animation is way ahead for Yukuza's, never mind Heavy rain  .
When one 1st saw Shemmue or to a point Yakuza 1 , it was Truly breath taking to see that many characters on screen and a world so detailed ,
But now we’re in age of GTA IV, Mass Effect II , Assassin's Creed II  ECT , all witht Mass Open worlds , lovingly detailed , and populated with a huge number of characters . The teams just need to do far better , and really push the bar . Sonic Team will , to a point so can AM#2 , but the rest of the Consumer Teams really need to start using the power of the next gen far better , and push the PS3 or 360 as much as their Teams can push the like of Lindberg  
And I 'll leave it at that

[MadeManG74]

Just like old times...

[ROJM_old]

There is nothing Custom SEGA tech inside either Lindberg or RingEdge , that the simple truth of the matter. However the GPU inside  the STV-V and Saturn was   SEGA and Unique to SEGA , and while boards like NA@MI II , Model 3 , used off the shelf CPU’s, their GPU were far from that (in NA@MI II case its (Geometry Processor).  Panzer Dragoon Orta it is still one of the best looking X-Box games ever made , and all running at a near perfect 60 fps , not many games came close to Orta , it was pushing and using the X-Box to its fullest  .

NCL started out a Card company , companines  move on and Adapt , they just have too, what did SEGA start out as , becasue it wasn't Consumer or Arcade Videogames that's for sure.  
The like of Id/Epic wouldn't lower them self to work on consoles a few years ago , so would  many PC developers , now they're all on the next gen systems   SEGA Needs to use all the best bits from its Arcade teams , and wake up to making game engines on PC's and then ported them down to consoles , and making far better use of Multi Thread CPU's , not just for this gen , but the next gen too

And as for the last part, I don't really like Mass Effect II , but its characters and in-game animation is way ahead for Yukuza's, never mind Heavy rain  .
When one 1st saw Shemmue or to a point Yakuza 1 , it was Truly breath taking to see that many characters on screen and a world so detailed ,
But now we’re in age of GTA IV, Mass Effect II , Assassin's Creed II  ECT , all witht Mass Open worlds , lovingly detailed , and populated with a huge number of characters . The teams just need to do far better , and really push the bar . Sonic Team will , to a point so can AM#2 , but the rest of the Consumer Teams really need to start using the power of the next gen far better , and push the PS3 or 360 as much as their Teams can push the like of Lindberg  
And I 'll leave it at that

Nonsense what you are talking about with NCL have no bearing to this debate. What you are really saying is that Sega should sell out their principles and be like everyone else. Well sorry I and many others wouldn't want to see that happen. I like the fact that Sega can create different engines for different games. I like the fact that they could form a team just to work on one specific title in which you yourself have taken your username based on one of these small teams that benefited from this practice.And again Val and RGG3 and 4 do stand out as great looking PS3 titles.

And you better check your history again mate because Sega started out as an arcade games company they haven't differed from that. Only difference now is that arcades are electronic compared to the norm of what they were in the 50s and mid sixties. And don't use the hawaii link either because the company SEGA started with Rosen not with those other jerkoffs.

[jonboy101]

There is nothing Custom SEGA tech inside either Lindberg or RingEdge , that the simple truth of the matter. However the GPU inside  the STV-V and Saturn was   SEGA and Unique to SEGA , and while boards like NA@MI II , Model 3 , used off the shelf CPU’s, their GPU were far from that (in NA@MI II case its (Geometry Processor).  Panzer Dragoon Orta it is still one of the best looking X-Box games ever made , and all running at a near perfect 60 fps , not many games came close to Orta , it was pushing and using the X-Box to its fullest  .

NCL started out a Card company , companines  move on and Adapt , they just have too, what did SEGA start out as , becasue it wasn't Consumer or Arcade Videogames that's for sure.  
The like of Id/Epic wouldn't lower them self to work on consoles a few years ago , so would  many PC developers , now they're all on the next gen systems   SEGA Needs to use all the best bits from its Arcade teams , and wake up to making game engines on PC's and then ported them down to consoles , and making far better use of Multi Thread CPU's , not just for this gen , but the next gen too

And as for the last part, I don't really like Mass Effect II , but its characters and in-game animation is way ahead for Yukuza's, never mind Heavy rain  .
When one 1st saw Shemmue or to a point Yakuza 1 , it was Truly breath taking to see that many characters on screen and a world so detailed ,
But now we’re in age of GTA IV, Mass Effect II , Assassin's Creed II  ECT , all witht Mass Open worlds , lovingly detailed , and populated with a huge number of characters . The teams just need to do far better , and really push the bar . Sonic Team will , to a point so can AM#2 , but the rest of the Consumer Teams really need to start using the power of the next gen far better , and push the PS3 or 360 as much as their Teams can push the like of Lindberg  
And I 'll leave it at that

Well its not really fair to compare a narrow arcade game to a massive game like Yakuza 4. As beautiful as Let's Go Spice Island is, it is hardly as big a game as anything the consumer teams are pumping out.

You're comparing rail shooters to SRPGS and Adventure games. How the hell is that fair?

There is also the issue of time. Amusement Vision is pumping out relatively high quality high budget products every year, as well as the more and more mediocre Super Monkey Ball games. Sonic Team manages about a Sonic game every year now, plus a Phantasy Star game every two years, and the odd game like Billy Hatcher or NiGHTS about once every three or four.

These games, all of them (except PSU) were very rushed games, because frankly, Sega is biting off more than it can chew. Its release schedule is too damn frantic. The only team I see not overstepping itself, of the Consumer Divisions, is Overworks, who seems to have a pretty good balance. I really hope, though, they don't milk Valkyrie as much as they did Sakura Taisen, and turn a great series to shit.

In stark contrast, the AM teams are damn near lazy with their output. What has AM-2 really done this generation?

They've ported Virtual On to the X360, developed Virtua Fighter 5 and milked it for all its worth, barely remade Daytona, given us a Gundam ripoff and a mediocre looking Shining game. That's not exactly pushing the envelope TA. Oh, did AM-2 do Sega Race TV, or was that AMPlus? In either event, its hardly groundbreaking.

[Suzuki Yu]

There is nothing Custom SEGA tech inside either Lindberg or RingEdge , that the simple truth of the matter. However the GPU inside  the STV-V and Saturn was   SEGA and Unique to SEGA , and while boards like NA@MI II , Model 3 , used off the shelf CPU’s, their GPU were far from that (in NA@MI II case its (Geometry Processor).  Panzer Dragoon Orta it is still one of the best looking X-Box games ever made , and all running at a near perfect 60 fps , not many games came close to Orta , it was pushing and using the X-Box to its fullest  .

NCL started out a Card company , companines  move on and Adapt , they just have too, what did SEGA start out as , becasue it wasn't Consumer or Arcade Videogames that's for sure.  
The like of Id/Epic wouldn't lower them self to work on consoles a few years ago , so would  many PC developers , now they're all on the next gen systems   SEGA Needs to use all the best bits from its Arcade teams , and wake up to making game engines on PC's and then ported them down to consoles , and making far better use of Multi Thread CPU's , not just for this gen , but the next gen too

And as for the last part, I don't really like Mass Effect II , but its characters and in-game animation is way ahead for Yukuza's, never mind Heavy rain  .
When one 1st saw Shemmue or to a point Yakuza 1 , it was Truly breath taking to see that many characters on screen and a world so detailed ,
But now we’re in age of GTA IV, Mass Effect II , Assassin's Creed II  ECT , all witht Mass Open worlds , lovingly detailed , and populated with a huge number of characters . The teams just need to do far better , and really push the bar . Sonic Team will , to a point so can AM#2 , but the rest of the Consumer Teams really need to start using the power of the next gen far better , and push the PS3 or 360 as much as their Teams can push the like of Lindberg  
And I 'll leave it at that

Well its not really fair to compare a narrow arcade game to a massive game like Yakuza 4. As beautiful as Let's Go Spice Island is, it is hardly as big a game as anything the consumer teams are pumping out.

You're comparing rail shooters to SRPGS and Adventure games. How the hell is that fair?

There is also the issue of time. Amusement Vision is pumping out relatively high quality high budget products every year, as well as the more and more mediocre Super Monkey Ball games. Sonic Team manages about a Sonic game every year now, plus a Phantasy Star game every two years, and the odd game like Billy Hatcher or NiGHTS about once every three or four.

These games, all of them (except PSU) were very rushed games, because frankly, Sega is biting off more than it can chew. Its release schedule is too damn frantic. The only team I see not overstepping itself, of the Consumer Divisions, is Overworks, who seems to have a pretty good balance. I really hope, though, they don't milk Valkyrie as much as they did Sakura Taisen, and turn a great series to shit.

In stark contrast, the AM teams are damn near lazy with their output. What has AM-2 really done this generation?

They've ported Virtual On to the X360, developed Virtua Fighter 5 and milked it for all its worth, barely remade Daytona, given us a Gundam ripoff and a mediocre looking Shining game. That's not exactly pushing the envelope TA. Oh, did AM-2 do Sega Race TV, or was that AMPlus? In either event, its hardly groundbreaking.

i think AM2 is doing great and still one of best studios out there
VF5 with all it's releases is still considered as the best fighter you could ever played
i wouldn't call Border Break as Gundam ripoff ! the game played totally different and it's Awesome for all i care + it was really challenging game for this team to make , the gameplay is just insane and fast (reminds me of Halo)
Shining Force Cross looks very colorful  with really beautiful art designs , music is great and the game shaping to be the best game in the series since the saturn days , there is alot of uploaded gameplay videos in nico nico donga site that you can check it out for yourself .
also you skipped games like After Burner Climax , R-Tuned & Q of D VS

[MadeManG74]

I would also add that I don't think VF5 is 'milked to death', it's only recieved 2 updates so far, and they've both been very significant ones at that. They've had the revisions for balance changes and new content, but thats just showing excellent support, and fighting games need that more than most games.

Also, wasn't it AM3 that ported VOOT to XBLA? Maybe I'm wrong.

As for Sega Race TV, I think that was AM+ not AM2, but I'm not certain either.

[Suzuki Yu]

I would also add that I don't think VF5 is 'milked to death', it's only recieved 2 updates so far, and they've both been very significant ones at that. They've had the revisions for balance changes and new content, but thats just showing excellent support, and fighting games need that more than most games.

Also, wasn't it AM3 that ported VOOT to XBLA? Maybe I'm wrong.

As for Sega Race TV, I think that was AM+ not AM2, but I'm not certain either.

VOOT originally created by AM3 but the XBLA port handling was by AM2

and yes SEGA Race-TV is the only game released by AMplus so far

[MadeManG74]

I would also add that I don't think VF5 is 'milked to death', it's only recieved 2 updates so far, and they've both been very significant ones at that. They've had the revisions for balance changes and new content, but thats just showing excellent support, and fighting games need that more than most games.

Also, wasn't it AM3 that ported VOOT to XBLA? Maybe I'm wrong.

As for Sega Race TV, I think that was AM+ not AM2, but I'm not certain either.

VOOT originally created by AM3 but the XBLA port handling was by AM2

and yes SEGA Race-TV is the only game released by AMplus

Oh wow, I thought it was AM3 doing the porting. No wonder the port was fucking outstanding, it's by the Gods of Game Development!

[Team Andromeda]

Well its not really fair to compare a narrow arcade game to a massive game like Yakuza 4. As beautiful as Let's Go Spice Island is, it is hardly as big a game as anything the consumer teams are pumping out.

You're comparing rail shooters to SRPGS and Adventure games. How the hell is that fair?

There is also the issue of time. Amusement Vision is pumping out relatively high quality high budget products every year, as well as the more and more mediocre Super Monkey Ball games. Sonic Team manages about a Sonic game every year now, plus a Phantasy Star game every two years, and the odd game like Billy Hatcher or NiGHTS about once every three or four.

These games, all of them (except PSU) were very rushed games, because frankly, Sega is biting off more than it can chew. Its release schedule is too damn frantic. The only team I see not overstepping itself, of the Consumer Divisions, is Overworks, who seems to have a pretty good balance. I really hope, though, they don't milk Valkyrie as much as they did Sakura Taisen, and turn a great series to shit.

In stark contrast, the AM teams are damn near lazy with their output. What has AM-2 really done this generation?

They've ported Virtual On to the X360, developed Virtua Fighter 5 and milked it for all its worth, barely remade Daytona, given us a Gundam ripoff and a mediocre looking Shining game. That's not exactly pushing the envelope TA. Oh, did AM-2 do Sega Race TV, or was that AMPlus? In either event, its hardly groundbreaking.

So you want to talk fairness ?. I don't think one can really square that one and compare Yakuza III/IV to AM#2 , when more staff work on a  single Yakuza  game , than work @ AM#2 in total , but whatever  

As for Output what have New R&D (or what ever they called now) done this gen , 2 sub Bar Monkey Ball games , and 3 Yakuza games  .
 You want to to list the total number of Lindberg games and RingEdge games developed by AM#2 ?. I'm sure they've pumped just a bit more, and imo games graphically far better too .
SEGA Consumer Teams haven't been inthe same league Arcade Teams , and the consumer Teams can do shameless rip-off's too with Brain Assist (That's not really  new :roll: ) and a poor update of NiGHTS , I don't think  those game pushing the envelope.


Overworks and Sonic Team are the bright sparks left in the consumer ranks , but lets face it the only reason why Val hasn't been milked as much as Sukura , is because the game sold nowhere near as good  

Also, wasn't it AM3 that ported VOOT to XBLA? Maybe I'm wrong

I don't think AM#3 have ever ported VO series to any home system

Nonsense what you are talking about with NCL have no bearing to this debate.

NCL did start out making cards , SONY didn't start out making consoles  or  games, same for MS,  that's for sure . Like I say all companies change and adapt over the years

Sega should sell out their principles and be like everyone else

Sadly that is the SEGA of today , nothing  new in their line up, nothing world leading in terms of tech either.

better check your history again mate because Sega started out as an arcade games company they haven't differed from that

They started out importing , didn't they . 'Video' Arcade  games or Console games weren't quite around in the 50's .  And Yakuza tech is massive outclassed by a number of tiles and more and more ones  from other Japanese developers .
 I will say the Tech for Canvas and Hedgehog is very impressive , especially the HedgeHog Tech . SEGA should make far better use of tech like that

[ROJM_old]

So you want to talk fairness ?. I don't think one can really square that one and compare Yakuza III/IV to AM#2 , when more staff work on a  single Yakuza  game , than work @ AM#2 in total , but whatever

So's what your point? You said the arcade teams are getting better support and then you just contridict yourself by saying that the Yakuza games had more staff IE more support IE more money spent on it which means that one of the consumer teams are getting support.

As for Output what have New R&D (or what ever they called now) done this gen , 2 sub Bar Monkey Ball games , and 3 Yakuza games  .

 

You want to to list the total number of Lindberg games and RingEdge games developed by AM#2 ?. I'm sure they've pumped just a bit more, and imo games graphically far better too .
SEGA Consumer Teams haven't been inthe same league Arcade Teams , and the consumer Teams can do shameless rip-off's too with Brain Assist (That's not really  new :roll: ) and a poor update of NiGHTS , I don't think  those game pushing the envelope.

Brain assit and Brain Trainer was started by Sega in the first place. Nintendo was theone that "stole" the idea and made millions from it. NIGHTS was technically a western game since it was made under SOA via Sonic Team USA. And JB's right SFC is Quest Of D with new characters,BB is a rip off and VF has gone the cash in route while everything else is either a card game so they can sell cartoons and merchandise or some redemption game. There hasn't been a totally new IP from Sega arcade divisions for a long while now.

Overworks and Sonic Team are the bright sparks left in the consumer ranks , but lets face it the only reason why Val hasn't been milked as much as Sukura , is because the game sold nowhere near as good

 

Half a million sales isn't bad in anyone's book. And ST a bright spark? Now you are having a laugh.



 

NCL did start out making cards , SONY didn't start out making consoles  or  games, same for MS,  that's for sure . Like I say all companies change and adapt over the years They started out importing , didn't they . 'Video' Arcade  games or Console games weren't quite around in the 50's .  And Yakuza tech is massive outclassed by a number of tiles and more and more ones  from other Japanese developers .
 I will say the Tech for Canvas and Hedgehog is very impressive , especially the HedgeHog Tech . SEGA should make far better use of tech like that

Rubbish. NCL Sony and MS didn't adapt they went into the games industry to cash in. MS and Sony still have their eggs in their core industries. Sega has ALWAYS been in the arcade game industry. Importing and retooling arcade games as well as creating new ones DURING the 50s.

Sega should sell out their principles and be like everyone else

Sadly that is the SEGA of today , nothing  new in their line up, nothing world leading in terms of tech either.

That's always been Sega of yesterday and today. And you berate them for no tech yet you just praised Val. :roll:

And as for sega arcade hardware I guess you missed the boat on AURORA too. Again the LB and RE are not glorified PCs but Sega's spin of that tech. So just give it up.

[Team Andromeda]

I'm saying SEGA Arcade teams make better use of the tech they're give to work on . the Arcade teams seem better able to use PC Tech and use of next gen shaders and HDR ECT  , and  John thinks If it’s not fair to compare Arcade games to Homes games, then it shouldn’t be fair to compare AM#2 to a Consumer product that was made with far more staff and much bigger budget .
 
I really don't know why you get this idea that SEGA  came up with the brain training  concept , because that will be a new one of a few people . And as for the Arcade teams milking , they're not different or worse than Consumer Teams . How many more versions of Monkey ball, Sonic, Sakura , Yakuza do you want ? , and what's Supestar's tennis , All Star Sonic racing , they're just Virtual Tennis , and Mario Kart in different clothing . I see nothing  from the Consumer teams that's  original then and a complete lack of anything that can be classed as new IP from the consumer Teams  .

NCL Sony and MS didn't adapt they went into the games industry to cash in

That's no different from SEGA turning to 'Video' games to cash in, Videogames weren't massive when NCL started to turn to videogames either .

And as for sega arcade hardware I guess you missed the boat on AURORA too. Again the LB and RE are not glorified PCs but Sega's spin of that tech

What that Arcade boards that's hardly ever been used , and powered by PowerVR That' used in a host of other products like Mobiles ECT. I'm sorry there's no SEGA tech there

[Team Andromeda]

I'm saying SEGA Arcade teams make better use of the tech they're give to work on . the Arcade teams seem better able to use PC Tech and use of next gen shaders and HDR ECT  , and  John thinks If it’s not fair to compare Arcade games to Homes games, then it shouldn’t be fair to compare AM#2 to a Consumer product that was made with far more staff and much bigger budget .
 
I really don't know why you get this idea that SEGA  came up with the brain training  concept , because that will be a new one of a few people . And as for the Arcade teams milking , they're not different or worse than Consumer Teams . How many more versions of Monkey ball, Sonic, Sakura , Yakuza do you want ? , and what's Supestar's tennis , All Star Sonic racing , they're just Virtual Tennis , and Mario Kart in different clothing . I see nothing  from the Consumer teams that's  original then and a complete lack of anything that can be classed as new IP from the consumer Teams  .

NCL Sony and MS didn't adapt they went into the games industry to cash in

That's no different from SEGA turning to 'Video' games to cash in, Videogames weren't massive when NCL started to turn to videogames either .

And as for sega arcade hardware I guess you missed the boat on AURORA too. Again the LB and RE are not glorified PCs but Sega's spin of that tech

That Arcade boards that's hardly ever been used , and powered by PowerVR That' used in a host of other products like Mobiles ECT. I'm sorry there's no SEGA tech there[/quote]

And ST a bright spark? Now you are having a laugh

No I'm serious , They are too . Sonic Team are going to suprise a lot of people , they're a Team that's stating to get it , and put right a lot of wrongs