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Off Topic => Everything Else => Topic started by: Happy Cat on April 03, 2010, 10:12:21 am

Title: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Happy Cat on April 03, 2010, 10:12:21 am
[youtube:3u2nbasv]XhMN0wlITLk[/youtube:3u2nbasv]
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 04, 2010, 01:13:35 am
Eh, hopefully Flash improves.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Happy Cat on April 04, 2010, 04:01:41 am
HTML 5 doesnt require a plug in, just up to date browser.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 04, 2010, 06:27:29 am
I can only imagine the Adobe rage if flash did become outmoded.

But hey, OpenGL as a viable platform for web developers? Quite nice. ^^
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 04, 2010, 06:38:52 am
I would  not mind this taking off, but it won't most likely. Too many sites already use Flash, the new update looks pretty good and a good move to phones.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Orta on April 04, 2010, 09:37:37 am
Quote from: "George"
I would  not mind this taking off, but it won't most likely. Too many sites already use Flash, the new update looks pretty good and a good move to phones.

It will, mainly because of video. Flash wasn't made for video, watching video in Flash is a pain. Besides, if you're using an updated version of your browser chances are it already supports HTML5. No need for plugins.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Snowcat on April 04, 2010, 11:25:24 am
I have changed my Youtube to the HTML5 version... it seems to load pretty fast... everyone ive spoken to about HTML5 seems to think its a good thing...
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Happy Cat on April 04, 2010, 12:21:53 pm
Oh wow, didn't know youtube had a HTML 5 option, ill have to try that! XD
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Snowcat on April 04, 2010, 01:56:32 pm
http://www.youtube.com/html5 (http://www.youtube.com/html5)

Go here to join the Youtube HTML5 Beta ;P
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: max_cady on April 04, 2010, 06:03:23 pm
Let's hope it handles Farmville well.

That web based game has been a pain for adobe flash users.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 05, 2010, 09:08:27 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
Let's hope it handles Farmville well.

That web based game has been a pain for adobe flash users.
WTF? HTML 5 has the capability to play real games, and all you care about are shitty Facebook apps? :lol:
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 09:13:12 am
*slaps you in your goddamn mouth* What did farmville do to you?
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 05, 2010, 09:16:58 am
Quote from: "George"
*slaps you in your goddamn mouth* What did farmville do to you?
*slaps back affectionately* <3

It's not what it did to me, it's what it did to everyone who uses that Facebook site... primarily pissing everyone off with updates and stuff. :lol:

Oh yeah, and it's also an advertising scam (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FarmVille#Controversy) under the guise of innocent little game.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 09:22:41 am
*stops playing it*... I like adverts. *continues to play it*

Actually I don't play it at all. I just like to pretend I do, makes me more sociable.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 05, 2010, 09:53:53 am
There are a lot better ways to be sociable than playing Farmville. For instance, you can round up some of your friends and be like, "Hey guys, let's go to the mall! Yay! ^___^". And then while you're there, you grab each other's arms and wander around giggling... it's a great way to bond!

But back on topic... I can't wait to see more examples of what HTML5 can do. (http://http://forums.sega.com/images/icons/icon7.gif)
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 10:26:15 am
Call me when it plays Youtube videos correctly. To me it loads the 'loading bar' all the way up even though a video is not all the way loaded.

Epic fail.  :evil:
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Orta on April 05, 2010, 11:27:36 am
Quote from: "George"
Call me when it plays Youtube videos correctly. To me it loads the 'loading bar' all the way up even though a video is not all the way loaded.

Epic fail.  :evil:

It only works with Chrome I think? Youtube video is poorly implemented. It doesn't work with Opera either.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 05, 2010, 08:11:02 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
It only works with Chrome I think? Youtube video is poorly implemented. It doesn't work with Opera either.

Maybe Opera is poorly implemented?  :P
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 05, 2010, 10:17:33 pm
Quote from: "Orta"
Quote from: "George"
Call me when it plays Youtube videos correctly. To me it loads the 'loading bar' all the way up even though a video is not all the way loaded.

Epic fail.  :evil:

It only works with Chrome I think? Youtube video is poorly implemented. It doesn't work with Opera either.
I'm using Chrome.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Orta on April 06, 2010, 05:29:33 am
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Orta"
It only works with Chrome I think? Youtube video is poorly implemented. It doesn't work with Opera either.

Maybe Opera is poorly implemented?  :P

Nah. Youtube doesn't respect the standard on HTML5 video. It only works on Chrome, Google's browser. Google also owns Youtube. It probably works on Safari as well, but that's only because both browsers use the same engine.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Happy Cat on April 06, 2010, 05:35:03 am
Quote
efore understanding why the new HTML5 video player does not work in some browsers, let us try to understand why HTML5 video is a big deal in the first place. One of the major problems with online streaming videos has been the lack of standardization. Some videos require Windows Media Player, some require RealPlayer, some utilise Adobe Flash while others require QuickTime. In order to view these videos, you must first install the appropriate browser  plug-ins. However, HTML5 attempts to clean up this clutter by introducing the <video> tag. The basic aim of WHAT (Web Hypertext Application Technology) working group was to free online videos from plug-in dependency by introducing native video playback. Unfortunately, due to lack of agreement between major browser vendors, the video codec itself was not standardized. Apple wanted to use H.264 video due to better compression ratio and support for hardware acceleration. However, Opera  and Mozilla refused to accept H.264 since it is a proprietary codec.

This brings us to the current situation with YouTube and Vimeo. Both YouTube and Vimeo have decided to go with H.264, which is not supported by Opera and Firefox. Hence, although Opera and Firefox support HTML5 video playback, they are not compatible with the new YouTube player. The HTML5 player works only in Chrome, Safari and Internet Explorer with Chrome frame installed. So why is Opera and Mozilla opposing the H.264 codec, which is technically superior to the proposed Ogg Theora codec?

The answer to this question is not as simple as you may think. H.264 is a proprietary codec and implementing a H.264 decoder would cost the browser manufacturers approximately $5 million per year. On top of that, even content creators would be liable for loyalties starting. The problem is not just financial; it is also ideological. Mozilla Firefox is an Open Source product, which is modified and used by various downstream distributors. Including proprietary code within the product will prevent these distributors from implementing a fully functional version of Firefox.

YouTube’s decision to choose H.264 is both startling and puzzling. Chris DiBona of Google claimed that, “If [youtube] were to switch to theora and maintain even a semblance of the current youtube quality it would take up most available bandwidth across the Internet.” However, this is nothing but FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Xiph found that the video produced by using Ogg Theora is comparable to the one produced by YouTube’s own H.264 video encoder. Ogg Theora was able to match both quality and size of the video outputted by YouTube’s encoder. Not only that, Ogg Theora clearly has a greater reach (mainly due to Firefox). DailyMotion was one of the early adopters of HTML5 and it has already demonstrated that Ogg Theora can be successfully used on a large scale.

http://www.pallab.net/2010/01/26/youtub ... gg-theora/ (http://www.pallab.net/2010/01/26/youtube-html5-videos-firefox-opera-h264-ogg-theora/)

(http://http://www.searchviews.com/wp-content/themes/clean-copy-full-3-column-1/images/the_more_you_know2.jpg)
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 07, 2010, 05:49:28 pm
Quote
YouTube’s decision to choose H.264 is both startling and puzzling. Chris DiBona of Google claimed that, “If [youtube] were to switch to theora and maintain even a semblance of the current youtube quality it would take up most available bandwidth across the Internet.”
Real answer:

"We're in it for the money."
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 07, 2010, 06:33:32 pm
OF course. They are a business. You know how much money they would spend just using another format? Seriously, I don't know how you are pinning google as bad guys. At least they offer HD now, before it was horrible quality. If anything, google improved Youtube by leaps and bounds.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 07, 2010, 07:46:27 pm
Quote from: "George"
You know how much money they would spend just using another format?
That's not what I'm talking about. :P I'm talking about how H.264 is a proprietary format, and why open source projects won't support it. It's a greedy corporate standard trying to force its way in whether we'd like it or not.

Their hope is that H.264 will be forced upon us as the standard, thus competing websites will have to pay millions of dollars to use it and Google can unfairly shut out the competition, Microsoft-style.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: George on April 07, 2010, 09:45:30 pm
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
Quote from: "George"
You know how much money they would spend just using another format?
That's not what I'm talking about. :P I'm talking about how H.264 is a proprietary format, and why open source projects won't support it. It's a greedy corporate standard trying to force its way in whether we'd like it or not.

Their hope is that H.264 will be forced upon us as the standard, thus competing websites will have to pay millions of dollars to use it and Google can unfairly shut out the competition, Microsoft-style.
Also, what other format offers the low bitrate and quality that H.264 does. I also thought it was free to use? I know Sony and Toshiba both used it on their HD formats.

Though I don't know much on this.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 10, 2010, 05:05:24 pm
All the context you need to know is in the third paragraph of that article at the top of this page.
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Snowcat on April 11, 2010, 04:08:24 am
H2.64 is a good format, it supports HD very well... I export videos as H2.64 most of the time. I don't lik Ogg...
Title: Re: Goodbye Flash, Hello HTML 5
Post by: Orta on April 11, 2010, 05:26:45 am
It costs a lot of money. Not a problem for Apple or Google. Either way, I can't see why it's not possible to implement Theora into Chrome and Safari while retaining h264. Eventually, and sadly, the fact that Youtube only supports h.264 would force everyone to use that solution.