Author Topic: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election  (Read 183517 times)

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #450 on: May 12, 2016, 02:50:40 pm »
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Why not Iran? Who was not only hostile to the US but actually BORDERS Afghanistan and has a history of funding terror groups? Or Lebanon? Or Syria? Or Lybia?


Most of the hatred comes from Saudi Arabia and sorry the USA has one of the  best record of funding terror groups . Be it the endless funding for the IRA or funding what went on to become Al Qaeda .


None of this will ever be sorted out until the USA puts a stop to what Israel is allowed to get away with. Which is such a shame as the USA does so much good, but never gets the credit for it
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Offline JRcade19

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #451 on: May 12, 2016, 09:43:26 pm »

Most of the hatred comes from Saudi Arabia and sorry the USA has one of the  best record of funding terror groups . Be it the endless funding for the IRA or funding what went on to become Al Qaeda .

Admittedly my memory of the IRA isn't top notch, though If one is referring to programs such as NORAID, those were started by Irish Americans and largely funded through such shadow charities, not too dissimilar to the islamic shadow charities used to fund terrorists. However in both cases, a charity isn't a government and NORAID was largely funded by civilians and actively pursued the US federal government. It's one thing to say the IRA derived some funds from the US, it's an entirely different argument to say the US government funded the IRA.

The Al-Qaeda part is one of those myths that get oft repeated so much that people actually start to simply believe it. Usually in this case I'll get a link to Project Cyclone and some doctored videos, someone will mentioned Muhajideen and call it a day. All of which however ignores the context of time and details privy to actual events.

In this case, there wasn't a single rebellion going on in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion. There were 2. On one side, we had a coalition of warlords and other ethnic groups who were native to the country fighting against the communist government. Many of the ethnic groups shared the same desires and goals as the US did in this situation. They actively supported women's rights, the right to self determination through democratic principles, the free market ect...The CIA had gotten a bit of a black eye for its work in Guatemala earlier and didn't want to be caught in the cross hairs again. Pakistan, fearing the soviet presence was a pre empt for an invasion of Pakistan, hooked up with the US and together they worked out a plan.

The US would provide additional funds to the Pakistani's, though the US was not allowed to dictate how the funds and equipment was dispersed. As a large part of Afghanistan is Pashtun like Pakistan was, they had a vested interest in supporting the local warlords, though did disperse plenty of funding to the other ethnicity on behalf of the US. During this time, Pakistan explicitly forbade US intelligence work in Afghanistan so the CIA only had about 7-10 contacts on the ground at any time keeping track of movements.

This is of course where things get muddy. Saudi Arabia had approached the US about funding it's own force of fighters, the Afghan Arabs, which were flooding Afghanistan from neighboring islamic countries. The US took one look at them and told Saudi Arabia that is was dumb and they would get no money because of the prevalent radical nature among their ranks. Saudi Arabia said fine and decided to use its own intelligence services to funnel money over. Meanwhile OBL was using his piggy bank of an inheritance from his family's business to fund himself and numerous islamic men set up charities in other nations to divert money over to the Arab Afghans.

The Arab Afghans were NOT the same as the native Afghan Rebels. Point aside, this little funding game went on until the Russians called it quits and the communist government fell. The CIA had kept tight watch over the money transferred to ensure it was going to the right places. While members of various tribes DID go on to join what would eventually become the Taliban later, the US itself never funded the Afghan Arabs which would eventually link up to form Al Qaeda.

One thing leads to another. The US leaves and stops bringing money into the country. The UN gets called in and the various peoples meet together to form a new government which is in a few short years overthrown by a Taliban force funded and trained by the Pakistani military. We still maintain a very good relationship with the peoples of the Norther Alliance. Shit happens here and there a bunch of crazy islamists now rule the majority of Afghanistan and their Pashtun heritage ensures that they get help from Pakistan who also helps build training camps for Al Qaeda. Eventually 9/11 happens, we tell Afghanistan to hand him over, they say no, we invade, Pakistan promised to stop helping Al Qaeda but continued to anyway, we find OBL and kill him eventually and piss off Pakistan but fuck them and now we are in 2016.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #452 on: May 13, 2016, 03:07:46 am »
Its no myth the USA both armed and funded the Taliban  and it no myth that most of IRA money came from America . If there was one good thing that came out of 9/11 was that America finally woke up to what its like to live in fear of a Bomb in your homeland; That's the real reason the IRA stopped their campaign was because after 9/11 the funds started to dry up

Every country has plenty of skeletons in their cardboard. The way us British treated the Irish was and is a disgrace, us British invented what would go on to become concentration camp's and Call me Dave has helped to turn Libya into a failed state ; and no doubt we be subject of terror for decades to come thanks to it

The USA seriously needs to sort out Israel and how its allowed to get away with breaking almost every rule there is and the world needs to sort out the funding of hate that comes from  Saudi Arabia.
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Offline Tad

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #453 on: May 13, 2016, 04:21:19 am »
IMF have come out on the side Cameron with the EU. This is the same IMF who have been completely wrong since they've started up.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #454 on: May 13, 2016, 04:55:37 am »
IMF have come out on the side Cameron with the EU. This is the same IMF who have been completely wrong since they've started up.

Yep pretty much .  They're part of the political elite set up
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Offline JRcade19

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #455 on: May 13, 2016, 11:31:19 am »
Its no myth the USA both armed and funded the Taliban   

Which isn't what you said. I'll post what you said again.
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or funding what went on to become Al Qaeda

Taliban =/= Al Qaeda. This isn't rocket science.

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and it no myth that most of IRA money came from America

Again, I feel this is being outright semantically dishonest. "Money came from America" =/= "The American Government funded the IRA". I'd love to be proven wrong if such was the case, but as far as I've been able to research it has not been the case. Irish Americans =/= The White house.

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The USA seriously needs to sort out Israel and how its allowed to get away with breaking almost every rule there is and the world needs to sort out the funding of hate that comes from  Saudi Arabia.

This is something I agree with fully.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 02:44:09 pm by JRcade19 »

Offline pcm92

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #456 on: May 13, 2016, 09:23:02 pm »
The USA seriously needs to sort out Israel and how its allowed to get away with breaking almost every rule there is
Haven't the Jewish people suffered enough?

Offline JRcade19

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #457 on: May 13, 2016, 10:52:36 pm »
The Suffering of the Jewish people in the past is not an excuse for them to violate standing agreements and etiquette of the present. Just because they suffered in the past does not give them immunity from being called out on demolishing homes funded by the UN meant for the poor and displaced among other things.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #458 on: May 14, 2016, 06:34:03 am »

Haven't the Jewish people suffered enough?


That doesn't excuse the actions of the 'Israeli' government with Gaza or its continued use of Illegal  settlements in occupied land.

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Taliban =/= Al Qaeda. This isn't rocket science


Sorry meant to put the head of Al Qaeda .

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The American Government funded the IRA"


Didn't quite say that, Not once did the USA government stop Sinn Fein countless fund raising  in the USA , even with the UK Government banning the likes Gerry Adams. The USA could have done a lot more a lot sooner to stop way IRA got its funds


 
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Offline JRcade19

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #459 on: May 14, 2016, 11:02:22 am »

Sorry meant to put the head of Al Qaeda .


Apologies or not, it doesn't make you any less wrong for reasons explained in that little TLDR of the soviet war in Afghanistan. Nevermind the myriad of stories and books, written by both journalists and interviewers of Bin Laden.

I'm not denying that the US fucked up in Afghanistan, but it's pretty easy to deny something that isn't even true in the first place ala US/Al-Qaeda links.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #460 on: May 15, 2016, 03:16:23 am »
I'm not denying that the US fucked up in Afghanistan, but it's pretty easy to deny something that isn't even true in the first place ala US/Al-Qaeda links.

Afghanistan has always been a mess, even in the days of the British empire . Now mountain fighters fighters of Afghanistan do not  all of a sudden get anti tank and helicopter weapons as soon as the Russians came . Indirectly the USA armed and funded the fight against the Russian forces in Afghanistan.

That's in the past , I thought the 2001 war in Afghanistan was quite just and the USA had every right to strike. The War in Iraq was totally pointless and illegal though we all knew and know that , expect for that baboon Bush
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Offline JRcade19

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #461 on: May 15, 2016, 07:21:55 pm »
Afghanistan has always been a mess, even in the days of the British empire . Now mountain fighters fighters of Afghanistan do not  all of a sudden get anti tank and helicopter weapons as soon as the Russians came . Indirectly the USA armed and funded the fight against the Russian forces in Afghanistan

And again, for is probably the 3rd or 4th time, i'm no disagreeing with you. The CIA itself has admitted to operating in Afghanistan, we have had news coverage from the time covering the conflict, and even had some Afghan fighters visit Reagan in the white house. This is Fact and I do not deny this. What I'm trying to explain to you is that there is simply more to the equation/intention other than *All afghan fighters were Taliban or Al Qaeda*. That's it lol.

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That's in the past , I thought the 2001 war in Afghanistan was quite just and the USA had every right to strike. The War in Iraq was totally pointless and illegal though we all knew and know that , expect for that baboon Bush

Indeed, I agree with you 100% here. Iraq was an entire waste of time for everyone involved and was only ever destined to make things worse.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #462 on: May 17, 2016, 02:41:34 am »
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All afghan fighters were Taliban or Al Qaeda*. That's it lol.


Fair point, but the same token quite a lot of the mountain fighters are not part of the Taliban . Many of them were just wanting to fight for their homeland against any outside invader.


Also baboons like Bush never gave these fighters any respect - what ever you think of them they were some of the bravest and most resistant fighters around  . The British Empire, The full might of the old Soviet union and indeed NATO have all tried and failed in   AAfghanistan [/quote]
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Offline Tad

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #463 on: May 17, 2016, 11:40:44 am »
Meanwhile, Trump says he can't see himself and David Cameron getting along if he does become president.

Please America, don't vote for him. Not just for our sake, but for your own.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
« Reply #464 on: May 18, 2016, 06:11:25 am »
Meanwhile, Trump says he can't see himself and David Cameron getting along if he does become president.

And people say Trump doesn't speak sense lol. 'Call Me Dave' is a lying scumbag , I would find it hard to work for a man who lies, spins and stands for nothing
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