Author Topic: Shinobi: The Complete History  (Read 19587 times)

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #135 on: August 09, 2022, 11:15:08 am »
The thing with Naruto and some ninja movies : they treat Ninja / Shinobi as some kind of superhero.
Different ninja with different power to show off.
That's not what Ninja is supposed to be.

SEGA described it best what Ninja / Shinobi is in Sakura Taisen :

"To remain hidden.
That's what Shinobi means.
Those who execute their mission undetected."


I agree. Ninja are awesome but we shouldn't glorify the fact they are assassins. I do know a bit about real ninja. From what I understand the first ninjas were peasants who had enough of the tyrannical lords and shogans that rule over them. So they learned to use the everyday farming tools for weapons, how to be efficient and sneaking and murdering their targets. In a way a samurai is a trained warrior in armour while the ninja goes for the gaps in the armour and forego armour to be light on their feet. Over time these clans of killer farmers stylized their martial arts into ninjitsu and became assassins. I don't know if ninja's had clans or if these clans were like the middle-eastern Order of Assassins but folklore and later Hollywood make ninjas seem able to pull off tricks like vanishing in a cloud of smoke or to turn into a log or dummy. I imagine it's possible for magicians but I dunno if ninjas actually pulled off any tricks similar to Las Vegas magicians.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #136 on: August 09, 2022, 08:40:00 pm »
I agree. Ninja are awesome but we shouldn't glorify the fact they are assassins. I do know a bit about real ninja. From what I understand the first ninjas were peasants who had enough of the tyrannical lords and shogans that rule over them. So they learned to use the everyday farming tools for weapons, how to be efficient and sneaking and murdering their targets. In a way a samurai is a trained warrior in armour while the ninja goes for the gaps in the armour and forego armour to be light on their feet. Over time these clans of killer farmers stylized their martial arts into ninjitsu and became assassins. I don't know if ninja's had clans or if these clans were like the middle-eastern Order of Assassins but folklore and later Hollywood make ninjas seem able to pull off tricks like vanishing in a cloud of smoke or to turn into a log or dummy. I imagine it's possible for magicians but I dunno if ninjas actually pulled off any tricks similar to Las Vegas magicians.


Well, Ninja's also like a spy so they're always known could disguise themself as anything.
By anything of course they meant anyone, they could disguise as farmer, beggar, or merchant.
But some story's taking too far with "anything" by making them could turned into a log or shadow.


Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2022, 03:25:02 am »
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Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #138 on: August 10, 2022, 09:10:08 am »
Well, Ninja's also like a spy so they're always known could disguise themself as anything.
By anything of course they meant anyone, they could disguise as farmer, beggar, or merchant.
But some story's taking too far with "anything" by making them could turned into a log or shadow.


That makes sense. I'm sure ninjas still wore kabuki given how practical they look, but makes sense they will need to do stake outs in broad daylight where the kabuki would be a dead give away.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #139 on: August 10, 2022, 09:21:19 pm »
That makes sense. I'm sure ninjas still wore kabuki given how practical they look, but makes sense they will need to do stake outs in broad daylight where the kabuki would be a dead give away.

May be that's why Joe Musashi decided to wear white.
Because he's operating in a broad daylight.


Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2022, 04:17:23 am »
May be that's why Joe Musashi decided to wear white.
Because he's operating in a broad daylight.


I think so to, would make sense.

Could also be it simply conceals his identity even if he is noticeable. Superhero mask/costume rules etc.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #141 on: August 11, 2022, 09:23:45 pm »
I think so to, would make sense.

Could also be it simply conceals his identity even if he is noticeable. Superhero mask/costume rules etc.

The Japanese titles for Mega Drive Shinobi series is actually SUPER SHINOBI.
That's right, not just a mere Shinobi but a SUPER one.
So I guess he really went superhero route by changing it to white
(his costume is still black in the original Shinobi).





For some reason western version dropped the SUPER title.
They changed The Super Shinobi into The Revenge Shinobi
and changed The Super Shinobi II into Shinobi 3: Return of The Ninja Master





Links :
https://segaretro.org/The_Revenge_of_Shinobi
https://segaretro.org/Shinobi_III:_Return_of_the_Ninja_Master

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2022, 02:54:02 am »
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Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #143 on: August 13, 2022, 06:08:34 am »
The Japanese titles for Mega Drive Shinobi series is actually SUPER SHINOBI.
That's right, not just a mere Shinobi but a SUPER one.
So I guess he really went superhero route by changing it to white
(his costume is still black in the original Shinobi).





For some reason western version dropped the SUPER title.
They changed The Super Shinobi into The Revenge Shinobi
and changed The Super Shinobi II into Shinobi 3: Return of The Ninja Master





Links :
https://segaretro.org/The_Revenge_of_Shinobi
https://segaretro.org/Shinobi_III:_Return_of_the_Ninja_Master
I prefer him as just "shinobi". They could of called the game "Ninja" but instead used a less common word for ninja as if being a "shinobi" means something over than being a regular ninja. As in why be a soldier when you can be a knight sort of thing.

Plus, I prefer it without the "super" because that would give him and his abilities more of an air of mystery. He "might" be mortal, he certainly has unique abilities, but unconfirmed if he's superhuman or enhanced in anyway.

Kind of like Batman given he's on par with most of the superheroes in the Justice League but is entirely human.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #144 on: August 14, 2022, 08:57:54 pm »
I prefer him as just "shinobi". They could of called the game "Ninja" but instead used a less common word for ninja as if being a "shinobi" means something over than being a regular ninja. As in why be a soldier when you can be a knight sort of thing.

Plus, I prefer it without the "super" because that would give him and his abilities more of an air of mystery. He "might" be mortal, he certainly has unique abilities, but unconfirmed if he's superhuman or enhanced in anyway.

Kind of like Batman given he's on par with most of the superheroes in the Justice League but is entirely human.

SEGA already have "The Ninja" though so "Shinobi" title could be picked so that fans won't be confused about which is which.



Also about "Super Shinobi",
Remember that he fought Batman and Spider-Man in Revenge?

Not to mention Hulk-like, Godzilla-like, and Terminator-like enemy.
It's like the game was designed to be the fight between "Super" Heroes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzh7kMcuDYY




Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #145 on: August 15, 2022, 06:41:10 am »
SEGA already have "The Ninja" though so "Shinobi" title could be picked so that fans won't be confused about which is which.

I wonder if these games are related, lore wise?
Also about "Super Shinobi",
Remember that he fought Batman and Spider-Man in Revenge?

Not to mention Hulk-like, Godzilla-like, and Terminator-like enemy.
It's like the game was designed to be the fight between "Super" Heroes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzh7kMcuDYY




Spider-man and Batman were the same enemy though. I imagine Zeed manage to raid Hollywood studios of costumes and animatronics that they weaponize and use against Musashi.

I mean, if Shinobi were to ever get a remake with an overhauled story, I can't imagine all these licensed characters returning. Thevery least knock-off versions of them.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #146 on: August 15, 2022, 08:31:58 pm »
I wonder if these games are related, lore wise?

I don't think so, the timeline is too different (The Ninja is set on feudal Japan).

Spider-man and Batman were the same enemy though.

Not after the revision though.
SEGA had a license for Spider-Man (they made a game based on him too) so they make it's a real Spider-Man on the revision.



Old version : Spider-Man morph into Batman.



New version : After battle with Musashi, Spider-Man then realized Musashi isn't a bad guy so he just leaves.
Yes, just leave though, not helping him fight the boss after him.



They changed it again to a pink ninja boss in the Virtual Console / Genesis Collections version since the license's expired.

I have the Mega CD classic collection and back then always wondered why they mentioned Spider-Man on the back cover.
I never played the game far so I didn't know that we'd have Spider-Man boss in the later level.



SEGA also had a license for Batman, but turned out it's just for a movie version of Batman (and Batman Returns later).
That's why they have to change him.





I mean, if Shinobi were to ever get a remake with an overhauled story, I can't imagine all these licensed characters returning. Thevery least knock-off versions of them.

Yeah, especially Spider-Man was Sony's property in movie now, it will be too expensive and not worth it.

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #147 on: August 16, 2022, 11:42:36 am »
I don't think so, the timeline is too different (The Ninja is set on feudal Japan).
I mean it could be Musashi's ancestor or something.
Not after the revision though.
SEGA had a license for Spider-Man (they made a game based on him too) so they make it's a real Spider-Man on the revision.



Old version : Spider-Man morph into Batman.



New version : After battle with Musashi, Spider-Man then realized Musashi isn't a bad guy so he just leaves.
Yes, just leave though, not helping him fight the boss after him.



They changed it again to a pink ninja boss in the Virtual Console / Genesis Collections version since the license's expired.

I have the Mega CD classic collection and back then always wondered why they mentioned Spider-Man on the back cover.
I never played the game far so I didn't know that we'd have Spider-Man boss in the later level.



SEGA also had a license for Batman, but turned out it's just for a movie version of Batman (and Batman Returns later).
That's why they have to change him.



It was confusing why genuine heroes would want to fight Joe Musashi. I mean, I can understand if they mistake him for a bad guy but you'd think there be more context behind it.

I would love to see an official comic that fills in the context behind these fights.
Yeah, especially Spider-Man was Sony's property in movie now, it will be too expensive and not worth it.
Yeah if Paramount were to have held onto the Marvel Cinematic Universe just a bit longer we might have had Tom Holland's Spider-Man versus Sega/Paramount's Joe Musashi. That be trippy as heck.

Offline Berto

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #148 on: August 17, 2022, 10:28:52 pm »
I mean it could be Musashi's ancestor or something.

Could be if SEGA wanted to.
The protagonists don't have the surname, just Kazamaru and Kasumi.
They could make one of them as Musashi : Kazamaru Musashi or Kasumi Musashi.
But so far none of the connection has been mentioned or hinted by SEGA.





It was confusing why genuine heroes would want to fight Joe Musashi. I mean, I can understand if they mistake him for a bad guy but you'd think there be more context behind it.

I would love to see an official comic that fills in the context behind these fights.

Many superhero vs superhero story usually relies on misunderstanding, so this one is not different than that.
Many evil Ninjas suddenly show up in the city and the Spidey assumed Musashi as the boss since he dressed as ninja and has different color compared the others.

Yeah if Paramount were to have held onto the Marvel Cinematic Universe just a bit longer we might have had Tom Holland's Spider-Man versus Sega/Paramount's Joe Musashi. That be trippy as heck.

Musashi would beat Tom Holland Spider-Man though since he's now lost access to Stark's technology.

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: Shinobi: The Complete History
« Reply #149 on: August 18, 2022, 11:44:52 am »
Could be if SEGA wanted to.
The protagonists don't have the surname, just Kazamaru and Kasumi.
They could make one of them as Musashi : Kazamaru Musashi or Kasumi Musashi.
But so far none of the connection has been mentioned or hinted by SEGA.



It would be an interesting callback to these games if Sega (or some third-party developer on behalf of Sega) revamped the franchise.

I would love to see an official comic that fills in the context behind these fights.

Many superhero vs superhero story usually relies on misunderstanding, so this one is not different than that.
Many evil Ninjas suddenly show up in the city and the Spidey assumed Musashi as the boss since he dressed as ninja and has different color compared the others.

Musashi would beat Tom Holland Spider-Man though since he's now lost access to Stark's technology.
Depends if it's Musashi from the games or a future Sega Cinematic Universe Musashi who might be different from the games.


But yeah, official Marvel comic of "Shinobi vs Spider-man" or DC with "Shinobi vs Batman" would be brilliant.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 11:46:24 am by Mystic Monkey »