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The timeline so far, should it be rebooted?

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Mystic Monkey:
The only Resident Evil game I ever played is the first game for the PlayStation years back. If you were to ask me to list out a timeline of the main continuity of Resident Evil I wouldn't know where to start. Resident Evil has become such a popular zombie video game franchise it has a rather developed story around the manufacture of bioweapons and zombie outbreaks.
Given THotD only had five (six if you count THotD4S) major games and about three side games (not including remakes, Vampire Night or Golden Gun) I manage to put together a timeline of historical events in what I believe to be chronological order.
* 1880, individual ancestors of the Curien, Goldman and Thornheart family came together to found an organization responsibile for a series of events that AMS has previously looked into. Whenever this organization eventually became DBR Corporation is yet unconfirmed.
* ?, AMS "might" be founded somewhen after Thornheart's organization and likely responded to their activities.
* 19'60s (during Cold War), "Operation: Overkill" was a secret government project located in an underground bunker in the swamps of Louisiana. Scientist created "Formula X" as a means to create super soldiers. However it was regarded a failure and the bunker was shut down and sealed off. At some point, the county prison of Bayou City was built over it.
* ?, AMS "might" be founded somewhen after Operaiton: Overkill in awareness of bioweapons of such nature. At some point G joined AMS before 1991.
* Late '80s to 1991, Prison warden Clament Darling finds Operation: Overkill bunker underneath his prison. He gets Papa Caesar to refine the formula.
* 1991, THotD:Overkill.  Papa Caesar kidnaps Jasper Guns and forces him to refine Formula X which lead to an outbreak from Caesar's mansion and begins to spread throughout Bayou City. AMS agent G and Detective Isaac Washington work together to curb the outbreak, pursuit Papa Caesar and stop Clament Darling, which they succeeded.
* Mid to late-'90s, Daniel Curien becomes terminally ill. His father Dr. Roy Curien vows to save him. Given Dr. Curien was Research Director of DBR Corporation and Caleb Goldman financially backing him up (Whenever Curien was founder of DBR or not is never clearly stated) Dr. Curien creates the BioReactor, a machine that specialises in editing DNA and cloning.
* ?, Thomas Rogan joins AMS and became partner with G. Sophie Richards joins DBR Corporation, she is employed at Curien Manor. At some point Thomas and Sophie became engaged.
* 18th, December, 1998, The House of the Dead. Dr. Roy Curien purposely began mass-producing hostile clones and creatures and release them throughout his manor grounds. Killing off his employers and garnering the attention of Thomas Rogan and G to stop him. Given the efficiency of the two the outbreak was contained. Dr. Roy Curien confirmed dead and not long after his corpse was claimed and taken to EFI Research Facility along with his son Daniel Curien.
* 1999 or 2000, Lisa Rogan was born. (Unknown if she was born before or after THotD2 incident. Technically she is 20 years old in THotD3 which means she could of been born before the Curien Manor incident.)
* 26th, February, 2000, The House of the Dead II. An outbreak in a city in Italy caused by Caleb Goldman. Despite the immense scale of the outbreak, AMS was able to contain it. Caleb Goldman was killed.
* ? (unknown if canon), U.D.S. was a top-secret government plan to utilize the deceased for military use. Whenever the government based their research on the Italy incident is unknown. Gil Breitling killed ZEDs parents for the project prompting the son to grow up to become a bioterrorist.
* ?, Zombie Revenge (unknown if canon), A year after the previous event, Bioterrorist used UDS to start an outbreak. While ZEDs campaign involved mutants, the UDS outbreak was contagious to human similar to zombies, thus infected humans were called zombies. ZED became Black Magician but was still destroyed. However the heroes wake up in the middle of nowhere and were told "now he hijacked a ship". Whenever Curien Manor was destroyed or whenever the game was canon given the game did not involve the main series director Takashi Oda leaves it's legitimacy to the continuity dubious.
* 2003, By Thornheart's orders, EFI Research Facility begins mass producing mutants and bioweapons and begin an outbreak across Europe.
* 2003, The House of the Dead 4. AMS agents James Taylor and Kate Green witness a major mutant outbreak. Caleb Goldman who threatens to use nuclear weapons against the world. The outbreak seem to begin from a number of sources (Goldman Building and EFI Research Facility) leading out a pandemic outbreak that caused the whole city into chaos. James and Kate were capable of stopping Goldman and his nuclear missiles but James died from destroying The World.
* 2003, The House of the Dead 4 Special. Hours since the events of THotD4, Kate Green meets with G in order to find the source of the city-wide outbreak. Despite the efforts of the late James Taylor, Kate Green and G, the outbreak was just too much for AMS to contain which lead to the decline of civilization across Europe.
* 6th December, 2006, The House of the Dead Scarlet Dawn. Kate is now partnered with James brother Ryan. Going undercover as party guest, they attend a party reception at Scarecrow Manor where Thornheart started an outbreak. Kate knew of the organization that the ancestors of Curien, Goldman and Thornheart founded and from their pursuit through Scarecrow Manor they found Thornhearts new genocidal project called Noah's Ark. While James and Kate succeeded at clearing Scarecrow Manor, they failed to apprehend Thornheart who escaped at the battle against the Moon and proceeded to lead the world into ruin.
* ?, the world gets worse off, with wastelands and mutants being a common sight. At some point AMS disbanded.
* ?, Thomas Rogan is no longer an AMS agent, founder of his own secret division. Dan Taylor being a member of that division. Due to the mutant outbreaks in Europe (THotD4 and ThotD4S), and elsewhere (THotD SD) and possibly corresponding to the zombie outbreak in Woodside City (ZR), civilizations throughout the world has crumbled due to humans turning into zombies or mutants.
* 17th, October, 2018, The House of the Dead III, (Chapter 0, Reminiscence).Thomas Rogan and Dan Taylor lead a raid at the EFI Research Facility. Finding confirmation that EFI is the source, they're knocked out and MIA.
* 31st, October, 2018, The House of the Dead III, Lisa Rogan and G team up to save Thomas Rogan. They found him along with Daniel Curien. Roy Curien is resurrected as the Wheel of Fate, but is destroyed by Lisa and Daniel.As far as I'm aware, the "World of the Dead" is still somewhat of a shitty place given Thornheart succeeded where Curien and Goldman could not. So I don't know what direciton Sega will take it from there on or even if they will even bother continuing THotD series.
I didn't include Loving Dead to the list because I think it be likely Loving Dead is it's own cartoon-like continuity. In it Dr. Roy Curien has survived. He attempted to resurrect his wife with Zombiko being the failed result. He also seem to take credit for HotD4 mutants despite those mutants before Caleb Goldmans creations.

Other than that I noticed some canonical differences between THotD "mutants" to RE "zombies".
* AMS insist to call them "mutants" despite some of them being formerly human and behaving like zombies.
* This is likely because most mutants do not appear to be formerly human but instead mass-produced clones, likely from human DNA that serve as a template. At least that explains why there are "kinds of mutants" that share similar appearance, facial features and even names.
* Zombies may still exist in THotD continuity, either as an informal (or perhaps derogative) term for humans who became mutants through an infection. But it seemed like cloned-mutants are the more common threat in this world which makes them differ from regular mutants.
* Makes me wonder, if they were to make new types of mutants in comparison to Resident Evil, I wonder what they would come up with in answer to such mutants as Tyrants, Plagas or Cadous? Or if what cults around the mutants?

Berto:
Such a cool and well-research history of HoTD.
I never knew they can be put in the same universe, I always though the mainline games and the spinoff are different universes.

It's true that most of the enemies are zombies, but them being called mutant as mutated corpses is not wrong either.
Also some of them don't look like zombies.
Magician that could fly, for example. Calling him a flying mutant is more fit than flying zombie.

Mystic Monkey:

--- Quote from: Berto on December 06, 2022, 07:07:36 am ---Such a cool and well-research history of HoTD.
I never knew they can be put in the same universe, I always though the mainline games and the spinoff are different universes.

It's true that most of the enemies are zombies, but them being called mutant as mutated corpses is not wrong either.
Also some of them don't look like zombies.
Magician that could fly, for example. Calling him a flying mutant is more fit than flying zombie.

--- End quote ---
The thing is, when Capcom makes a brand new Resident Evil game, I "believe" that they take into account the 26 years of lore to make sure it fits one way or another. For example while Biohazard and Village may seem like rather isolated cases, the mid-European-themed RE:Village is actually a direct sequel to the Louisiana-themed RE:Biohazard. Ethan Winters is the protagonist of both who just so happened to get stuck in these two rather separate events. But as you play through these games you'll find tie-ins and references to past games and lore, especially Umbrella Corporation.

For The House of the Dead series, it feels like they just make up some excuse for a mutant outbreak and just hope it sticks making the whole THotD continuity rather wishy-washy. I mean does the history established in Scarlet Dawn line up with anything from Overkill? I dunno. Is the events of Zombie Revenge even canon? Does the Undead Soldier program in Zombie Revenge which is established as a government project have anything to do with DBR Corporation or the outbreaks from Curien Manor or Italy?
It just seems rather inconsistent.
And given the series sort of worked itself into a corner by the end of THotD3 it makes me wonder if we're better off with a reboot of the franchise, or if THotD5 would take place in a Left 4 Dead like world.

Mystic Monkey:
So on the question whenever or not THotD should be rebooted or not I figured that perhaps it be best that Sega does not bother to reboot it. Whenever they want to end the series with Scarlet Dawn it's their call but after thinking it through I figure that THotD will not be practical for a reboot outside of on-rail shooting games.

I mean, I always saw great potential in THotD series that it could be on par with the Resident Evil series if it wanted to but it always restricted itself to arcade shoot 'em ups that I feel it's potential squandered.
But the thing is, if I wanted a zombie horror game on par with Resident Evil... why not just play Resident Evil?
To me, Resident Evil 7: Biohazard is the perfect example of potential I see in a House of the Dead game.
You got the house
You got the dead
They're technically mutants, not generic zombies
It's a first person shooting game that's off-rails and more engaging in story...
RE7:Biohazard is the ideal THotD game I can imagine for the series... so, why not play RE7:Biohazard then?

I may have "grown out" of Resident Evil due to it's complex lore but it's still more fleshed out and cared for by Capcom than Sega put into THotD. Heck maybe I'll get back into Resident Evil someday with all the remakes.

As for Sega... well, not including third-party developers, they did try to make horror games other THotD that's more fleshed out and for general gaming... That be Rise of Nightmares. However it seems like the developmenbt of the game was prioritized as a Kinect game over the quality of the game itself, just as THotD is prioritized as a on-rail shooter than the quality itself. Because of that the game does have some good ideas in it, Rise of Nightmares seems to be inspired by Frankenstein-like experiments with elements of steampunk. However it also has some rather "tongue-in-cheek horror"...

But in a way, having the horror in the story take dips of tongue-in-cheek humour is something rather Sega isn't it? Where a game made by Sega has a degree of whimsy to it.

But of course the major drawback of the game that's holding it back is that Sega probably thought "Hey, there's no horror games for the Kinect yet, let's do that!" and they probably just put it together with just the Kinect in mind than the game itself.

The only other Sega horror game I know of that's actually good would be the Condemned games. Criminal Origins was well received and liked for it's degree of grittiness yet gameplay which gives a sense of urban survival during the madness. It's sequel Bloodshot however wasn't regarded as good as the prequel with some nerfs in gameplay but other than that still well received horror games by Sega.

Thing is though, while these games were by Sega, they were not made by Sega, simply published by them. Condemned was developed by Monolith Productions which went on to make F.E.A.R., Gotham City Imposters and Middle-Earth games. So they knew how to make quality games and Sega got to put their logo on the cover.

So all in all, we're probably better off without a THotD reboot and should just stick to the remakes. Zombie Revenge is perhaps the only THotD game that broke from the arcade format and even tried to stand out from Resident Evil by having beat 'em up gameplay to it but it was regarded a one-off and not really regarded canon.

If I wanted to give Sega a chance to make a horror game, my suggestions would be:
* Remake of Rise of Nightmares for Virtual Reality. Or at least a sequel to it in VR. It doesn't have to bring back Viktor Fleischer or anyone from the first game (it appears Marchosias was set up as next villain), just continue the theme of "dark alchemy" and lean towards Frankenstein-like creations over generic zombies. Maybe make the Altered look less clockpunk and more like Transylians.
* Commission one of their own studios to make a horror game. Such as Ryu Ga Gotoku, Creative Assembly or their Research and Development teams? (Deep Fear was a contender at Resident Evil at the time.)
* Did Sega ever made any horror games during the Classic-era? Maybe reboot an oldie to be genuinely scary for a new generation.

Berto:

--- Quote from: Mystic Monkey on January 18, 2023, 08:05:42 am ---So on the question whenever or not THotD should be rebooted or not I figured that perhaps it be best that Sega does not bother to reboot it. Whenever they want to end the series with Scarlet Dawn it's their call but after thinking it through I figure that THotD will not be practical for a reboot outside of on-rail shooting games.
--- End quote ---

If not reboot, they could also take multiverse route, just like Yakuza Dead Souls and Like a Dragon Ishin.





--- Quote from: Mystic Monkey on January 18, 2023, 08:05:42 am ---I mean, I always saw great potential in THotD series that it could be on par with the Resident Evil series if it wanted to but it always restricted itself to arcade shoot 'em ups that I feel it's potential squandered.
--- End quote ---

If the intention is surpassing Resident Evil would be difficult, there are no dedicated team for that. If SEGA themself want to make a new THotD game again, they'll probably just make it for arcade only again like Scarlet Dawn. Something they do best and they're still unmatched in that category.


--- Quote from: Mystic Monkey on January 18, 2023, 08:05:42 am ---But the thing is, if I wanted a zombie horror game on par with Resident Evil... why not just play Resident Evil?
To me, Resident Evil 7: Biohazard is the perfect example of potential I see in a House of the Dead game.
You got the house
You got the dead
They're technically mutants, not generic zombies
It's a first person shooting game that's off-rails and more engaging in story...
RE7:Biohazard is the ideal THotD game I can imagine for the series... so, why not play RE7:Biohazard then?

I may have "grown out" of Resident Evil due to it's complex lore but it's still more fleshed out and cared for by Capcom than Sega put into THotD. Heck maybe I'll get back into Resident Evil someday with all the remakes.
--- End quote ---

Because THotD was supposed to be just a fun arcade game that needs no complex story. May be that's why I had lot more of fun playing THotD in arcade than I did in Saturn or Wii. Also may be SEGA realizes this and that's why they're not interested in bringing Scarlet Dawn to home version since the arcade magic will be gone anyway like its prequels.



--- Quote from: Mystic Monkey on January 18, 2023, 08:05:42 am ---As for Sega... well, not including third-party developers, they did try to make horror games other THotD that's more fleshed out and for general gaming... That be Rise of Nightmares. However it seems like the developmenbt of the game was prioritized as a Kinect game over the quality of the game itself, just as THotD is prioritized as a on-rail shooter than the quality itself. Because of that the game does have some good ideas in it, Rise of Nightmares seems to be inspired by Frankenstein-like experiments with elements of steampunk. However it also has some rather "tongue-in-cheek horror"...

But in a way, having the horror in the story take dips of tongue-in-cheek humour is something rather Sega isn't it? Where a game made by Sega has a degree of whimsy to it.

But of course the major drawback of the game that's holding it back is that Sega probably thought "Hey, there's no horror games for the Kinect yet, let's do that!" and they probably just put it together with just the Kinect in mind than the game itself.

The only other Sega horror game I know of that's actually good would be the Condemned games. Criminal Origins was well received and liked for it's degree of grittiness yet gameplay which gives a sense of urban survival during the madness. It's sequel Bloodshot however wasn't regarded as good as the prequel with some nerfs in gameplay but other than that still well received horror games by Sega.

Thing is though, while these games were by Sega, they were not made by Sega, simply published by them. Condemned was developed by Monolith Productions which went on to make F.E.A.R., Gotham City Imposters and Middle-Earth games. So they knew how to make quality games and Sega got to put their logo on the cover.
--- End quote ---

I still think the scariest game from SEGA is Alien Isolation. That's why I kinda dissapointed when the studio decided to make HYENA instead of another horror game.


--- Quote from: Mystic Monkey on January 18, 2023, 08:05:42 am ---So all in all, we're probably better off without a THotD reboot and should just stick to the remakes. Zombie Revenge is perhaps the only THotD game that broke from the arcade format and even tried to stand out from Resident Evil by having beat 'em up gameplay to it but it was regarded a one-off and not really regarded canon.

If I wanted to give Sega a chance to make a horror game, my suggestions would be:
* Remake of Rise of Nightmares for Virtual Reality. Or at least a sequel to it in VR. It doesn't have to bring back Viktor Fleischer or anyone from the first game (it appears Marchosias was set up as next villain), just continue the theme of "dark alchemy" and lean towards Frankenstein-like creations over generic zombies. Maybe make the Altered look less clockpunk and more like Transylians.
* Commission one of their own studios to make a horror game. Such as Ryu Ga Gotoku, Creative Assembly or their Research and Development teams? (Deep Fear was a contender at Resident Evil at the time.)
* Did Sega ever made any horror games during the Classic-era? Maybe reboot an oldie to be genuinely scary for a new generation.
--- End quote ---

For classic era, other than Alien franchises, I only remember two : Chakan and Decap Attack






But those two are horror-themed platformer game so it doesn't feel scary at all.

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