SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on August 27, 2014, 09:07:30 am
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We all love SOJ when it comes to games. After all they are the heart of what we all love about Sega. But they have not been the factor that pushed Sega into the stratosphere. I assume many people know that Sega use to be an american company..founded by americans...brought to japan..became an anglo japanese company in japan...and actually helped found the arcade industry in japan..many of the principles that sega is built on..innovation and techincal advancement came from the americans...
Only in the early eighties did the company that most of us ever known SOJ came in being..when the japanese took control of the company and in doing so..the games shifted from american programming to japanese programming.
Yes the games became legends onwards that not many can touch. Except one thing has been holding them back. The inept stupidity of the SOJ management.
The reality is this. SOJ has never EVER had any real success by themselves. People count the saturn but that system also lost ground in japan. SOJ has the expertise and the talent to create great stuff. But their management has been and always will be a joke.
If sonic had been released in the states under SOJ management in control..no doubt that the character let alone the games would not really be around today. People say that the game could have sold by its own esteem. Well so could countless other Sega games that have been just as good as Sonic. The difference between those titles however not becoming household names was that SOA and SOE know how to manage a company. In the last nine years we have witnessed what happens when SOA and SOE have an element of some control in making decisions. The result has been Sega gaining market share in the west and in many cases being the big money maker in overseas sales from their reports because of the decision of SOE to get two developers at a great price to continue making franchises that have only gone strength to strength in sales.
All soj management has been good for is sitting on their laurels and getting fat off the profits without taking much of a risk. They already had strong control of the arcades..so they just let their developers continue to do what they were doing. Now they have a good standing in the digital side but their titles are just mimicing everyone else..and any talent that they have to go beyond that isn't showing themselves anytime soon.
The reason why Sega is a household name is down to SOA and SOE management. What they did in selling the games to the public was the important facto to why Sega is still around at least known to people today. Its no mistake that many of the games people clamour for from Sega were games that appeared during the early to mid nineties when the management of SOA and SOE were in control.
I know this wouldn't happen any time soon but would sega benefit if they had an american running the company? Because you can't get awa y from the fact that Sega's huge success has always been connected to its american/western side.
By the mid nineties Sega was everywhere. They were on tv, they had toys...they started to have arcade theme parks across america and europe.
By the end of the nineties when SOJ had control all of that was run into the ground. Many people keep acting that the subsidiaries are not really important in Sega history but the reality is they are the only ones that put sega where they are in the first place. The DC proved you can have the greatest games in the world but without proper management and compelling marketing..it means nothing to the public.
SOJ just doesn't know how to sell themselves. How can you gain control of Relic and Atlus and not even shout about it? If you weren't following the news or anything you wouldn't even know Sega owned them...especially Atlus which has no presence in the Sega world from what i can see.
If its not canning games that should be made...making games that shouldn't and not even bothering to release their big games to other markets that have supported them more than their home market ever has...as well as just making games that doesn't have an international flavor and too market centric(in this case japan centric) than Sega wil just be what it is now in the west... Sonic and PC acquired games..
To me SOJ has always been a mismanaged company under the japanese. Regardless on who is in control. I feel that they could evolve as a company further if they had a westerner in charge or at least a western heavy SOJ management team....and someone who isn't afraid of risks and is not a glorified yes man like Stolar was, the worst SOA president to have ever been next to the guy who took over his job after that(sorry but SJ wasn't that bad and i dont rage because he doesn't know who Yu Suzuki is, he didn't run sega into the ground).
I feel SOJ needs to change their management proto..
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I think SOJ is worse than it ever was. Sure they might have not sold to the masses in the SMS, MD and DC days in Japan but they still just really made great games for everyone in the world. And their western and japanese games blended in better. You really woudn't know SoR and Shinobi were japanese and that Comix Zone and Vectorman were western.
Today it just seems like generic western products and generic japanese products, broadly speaking.
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Q: What exactly is SOJ management good for? (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3159.msg67669#msg67669)
A: Kindling.
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I think SOJ is worse than it ever was. Sure they might have not sold to the masses in the SMS, MD and DC days in Japan but they still just really made great games for everyone in the world. And their western and japanese games blended in better. You really woudn't know SoR and Shinobi were japanese and that Comix Zone and Vectorman were western.
Today it just seems like generic western products and generic japanese products, broadly speaking.
Well i wouldn't put VECTORMAN in that brush but i know what you mean..even though there was an obvious difference in looks and execution...Earlier games like SPIDER MAN however looked like they were made by SOJ when in fact they weren't. But that again as you just mentioned was the way SOA brilliantly marketed the games and used the different sources to create a compelling line up of titles...something Hayes managed to repeat during 2009-12...that combination of japanese and western titles that are in different genres arcade or consumer SOJ second party or sega west made and all good solid titles..is what always has made Sega stood from the rest of the pack..back in the genesis era and in recent years before the drought...
Anyway it isn't the SOJ games i'm complaing about its the SOJ management which are two separate things. They're the reason behind this Sega drought were experiencing...and also the reason why they 're not making as much AAA console games as much..if ever during the third party era were still in. Its not the developers who are at fault since they can only go with what management tells them or want...if management stops a good idea for a game being made its of course the management..or the fact a lot of people ended up leaving.
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I see what you say, ROJM.
Something about that is what now Sega-Sammy is revising with another "Group Structure Reform" in the works.([size=78%]http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/2014_4q_presentation_e__final__.pdf (http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/2014_4q_presentation_e__final__.pdf)[/size] Page 25 for the info)
In resume, they wanna get rid of poorly performing businesses that ultimately hurt the company especially what happened in the FY2012 (the worst lost in 5 years for the Sega brand)
Also , this FY is the year of Sonic Generations, Binary Domain, Yakuza Dead Souls, Virtua Tennis 4, Mario and Sonic London 2012, London 2012,the last Marvel Games (Thor-Captain America) before Avengers, both Kinect Games (Rise of Nightmares/CS3 or Sega Wow and Sonic Free Riders), COnduit 2 , Spiral Knights , Shinobi/Super Monkey Ball for 3DS, Alien:Infestation, Renegade Ops and a ton of Ports and Digital Re-releases like Sonic CD and House of the Dead 3. And that's only for the West....
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I think in order for SEGA to become what it was, it would need to be bought out by an understanding American or European company.
Take out all of the management. Keep the employees and just tell them to get their creative caps on. Market their products depending on how well you think they will do (if a game flops, give them a smaller project, and vice versa if a game does better than expected).
Branch out your teams to look into other areas (for instance, perhaps AM2 makes the Arcade games, help them look into ideas on how to get their games onto consoles/handhelds without causing too much risk to their original vision of it being an arcade game...perhaps cut some content for the consoles, but give them an incentive as to why the Arcade experience is better!).
Give Sonic Team a rest from Sonic (unless they have a good, non-gimmick idea) and let an American company do something with Sonic without disruption from Sonic Team (but of course, I wouldn't want them changing the genre on Sonic either). I'd give Sonic Team two projects on handheld and console (nothing too big a budget), and advertise it well.
From what I currently see, SEGA has always been good at B-Tiered games (nothing wrong with that! It just means the games are of a reasonable price and usually have innovative ideas), so I'd market SEGA games at a lower price of $45/50 - £25 to entice anyone on the fence.
The company should also make sure to convince retailers to keep their games on the shelves too and advertise to potential gamers as to why the new game is worth their money.
Some of you may disagree with me on this (and it's fine), but I do like some of Nintendo's own marketing ideas like Iwata Asks and Nintendo Direct, even if it just targets a certain audience.
I'd advertise games like Sonic/NiGHTS and the like on Kid's Programs and at Prime Time, so the exposure is maximized and hire some influential artists to make the cover art stand out on shelves (something SEGA did a good job back in the early 90s.
Just some of my ideas.
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I agree in part but lets be honest here we can be discusing this all day long when is very clear to me that SEGA do this all the time. They decide something and then they try to reached, if they fail or not is a different thing but lets not think that SEGA is in control by monkeys who are smealing their asses all day. They can do better yes but lets not ask SEGA to be the one that it was because nobody in my opinion can do what SEGA did in the past, not even Nintendo these days because with all the respect i also think Nintendo is not the same that it was, i have many friends that are dissapointed with the current efforts from Nintendo for example but thats a different topic.
In my opnion almost the "only" thing that SEGA needs is a good localization work. Sure they can improve some of the quality in some of their games but the mayor problem here is the localization for me. When SEGA started to bring more games from japan in the Hayes era many people saw it as the "return" of SEGA (Thing that i disagree by the way...) but in the end of the FY 2011 in march 2012 like Nirmugen said the consumer division of SEGA reported losses of 12 billons on yen...and with cheng and J.post now in the west side the objetive seems to be "everithing but no risks" which is good for the company but not that good for the fans.
I agree with ROJM, the games are not the problem, every game that SEGA japan brings recently had quality, you may like it or not but they have quality, SEGA had very good developers in my opinion and all around the world. If somehow they can improve their localization department in a way that can bring them money (Like they are doing with Miku) we can say than SEGA would improve their image a lot in the future.
About the core topic i think every part of SEGA had made good and bad decisions but in the end sometimes they have to think what is better, sometimes is the fan and sometimes is them and that is a very hard decision to make. The localization is my solution, the problem is that i have no idea how to localize a game and earn money in the way, and problably either do them...
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Mariano, I agree on your comments on localization.
Sega as a whole was smart to keep the Atlus label as a separate entity. I bet there are people out there that don't realize that they are a Sega branch, regardless of the publicity during the merger.
If they were to continue being smart, they really really should boost up Atlus' localization departments to start localizing SOJ titles as Atlus titles. Atlus pretty much has a flawless rep with fans. Sega really should capitalize on that.
One series in particular that keeps coming mind is 7th Dragon. It oooozes Sega to people who know what to look for, but to the uninitiated it could easily pass as a native Atlus title.
It's funny when you think of it. Is Sega at the point where they should distance themselves from their own branding here in the west? Take Binary Domain, a fantastic, unique game. Would it have done substantially better if it wasn't branded as Sega?
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Anyway it isn't the SOJ games i'm complaing about its the SOJ management which are two separate things. They're the reason behind this Sega drought were experiencing.
The blame lies with Sammy . SEGA Japan saw its R&D slashed and now orders from the top as seen SEGA work on quick and easy games and hardly any risk taking and games made with quick development periods and smallish budgets . SOJ haven't helped its self with poor next gen pipe lines and not letting the young members of staff control their own lines and work on their own games and lead Teams
Its sad by now SOJ is a basic common boring 3rd party bar the odd good title here and there .
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The blame lies with Sammy . SEGA Japan saw its R&D slashed and now orders from the top as seen SEGA work on quick and easy games and hardly any risk taking and games made with quick development periods and smallish budgets . SOJ haven't helped its self with poor next gen pipe lines and not letting the young members of staff control their own lines and work on their own games and lead Teams
Its sad by now SOJ is a basic common boring 3rd party bar the odd good title here and there .
TA this japan centric problem started WAY before Sammy was on the scene. Not saying they are perfect but don't try to turn this as "its all Sammy's fault" or Sammy is forcing people to make mobile phone games when Sega was on that platform from 2001. SOJ management made tremendous mistakes from 2001-2004 before Sammy fully merged with them...
SOJ has all the moolah they want...i know things are been playing safe but they're not even trying anymore. The arcades has been shite since 20010 onwards..the games have become absent and the mobile games i'm not interested in...and most of them stay in japan while they are passing acquired studios as Sega games without the SOJ output in the west.
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When SEGA started to bring more games from japan in the Hayes era many people saw it as the "return" of SEGA (Thing that i disagree by the way...
Why? It was the return of how they did things back in the genesis era. Before then all we were getting in the west was a few Sega west titles that no one wanted to play, no arcade ports and bad sonic. From the Hayes era onwards you got interesting Sega west titles, a few AAA SOJ games, Sega arcade ports and some strong second party games for Sega. And it looked like it was going to get better until the abrupt halt. Was it a return to Sega coming out with the type of games they made back in the DC era? No but it was a period where they seemed to have sorted themselves out for once and it was showing. People was talking about Sega in a more positive light...also how funny that during that period Sonic was actually good to play..coincidence? Or just a reflection of how Sonic games reflect the period that they are released in?
As for 2012...well part of the losses would be of the titles they canned so that should be mentioned in the R+D costs if its in the public report...which i wouldn't use that as a bonafide guide since it only gives you an idea but not the full picture..
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TA this japan centric problem started WAY before Sammy was on the scene. Not saying they are perfect but don't try to turn this as "its all Sammy's fault" or Sammy is forcing people to make mobile phone games when Sega was on that platform from 2001. SOJ management made tremendous mistakes from 2001-2004 before Sammy fully merged with them...
The blame does lie with Sammy at the end of the day. Sammy is all about short productions, easy and simple moves with as little risk as possible . You can see this not only on SEGA consumer side but now sadly also its Arcade side .
SOJ May have made more mistakes that we had cooked dinners, but they more often than not made sure the R&D side had plenty of money and were far more willing to task risks and let teams work on concepts that were risky or would take a while to come to life . There's hardly any of that now at SEGA Japan . Sammy made sure that SEGA is financially sound but at the cost of making SEGA Japan a half decent and well run corp - which while great for profits , its utter shit for us gamers .
I can't remember the last time I really looked forward to a SEGA game other than Sonic or PSO II , never mind the days when I lost to love showing off the latest SEGA game to a bunch of mates . These days the only thing that is SEGA is the logo the games could be made by any other corp , that is not the SEGA I grew up with or loved for decades
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About the Arcades, I think it stills brings some interresting projects to life. At least I don't think it's worse since the turn to giant online game cabinets for the japanese audience since about 2003.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eziwnDwB3ts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqU0Km7svzE
Sega could be better, but not all potential is completly lost. Their always some good for some (postives) surprises.
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Why? It was the return of how they did things back in the genesis era. Before then all we were getting in the west was a few Sega west titles that no one wanted to play, no arcade ports and bad sonic. From the Hayes era onwards you got interesting Sega west titles, a few AAA SOJ games, Sega arcade ports and some strong second party games for Sega. And it looked like it was going to get better until the abrupt halt. Was it a return to Sega coming out with the type of games they made back in the DC era? No but it was a period where they seemed to have sorted themselves out for once and it was showing. People was talking about Sega in a more positive light...also how funny that during that period Sonic was actually good to play..coincidence? Or just a reflection of how Sonic games reflect the period that they are released in?
As for 2012...well part of the losses would be of the titles they canned so that should be mentioned in the R+D costs if its in the public report...which i wouldn't use that as a bonafide guide since it only gives you an idea but not the full picture..
Yes i agree but i was referring that in my case at least there were many games during the jeffery era that i really enjoyed. That idea of SEGA only released crapy games during that time is just that for me, an idea, but i agree that for the mass SEGA released bad games at that time and during the hayes era everything improve. But everybody with their opinion.
And about the losses those 12 billons yen are from the whole consumer division (TMS, SEGA, sega tOYS, Etc), not all was from SEGA but in the end it was a big loss, and made SEGA-Sammy start some changes.
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Yes i agree but i was referring that in my case at least there were many games during the jeffery era that i really enjoyed. That idea of SEGA only released crapy games during that time is just that for me, an idea, but i agree that for the mass SEGA released bad games at that time and during the hayes era everything improve. But everybody with their opinion.
And about the losses those 12 billons yen are from the whole consumer division (TMS, SEGA, sega tOYS, Etc), not all was from SEGA but in the end it was a big loss, and made SEGA-Sammy start some changes.
I'm one of Jeffery's supporters around here...after all he got the ball rolling..his mistake that he awarded too many dev contracts to too many of his friends and half of those games ended up in development hell..or getting caught up in legal litigation....or making stupid mistakes like not investing the money to the right studio like Hayes did... if he had n't wasted half of the money he would still been with sega now...
I'm well aware of the losses but it was more major because of the R+D costs..if they hadn't have that it would have been minimal..but that really would have been reflected in the 2013 report since the cancellations happened at the end of the year of 2012...
Sammy made sure that SEGA is financially sound but at the cost of making SEGA Japan a half decent and well run corp - which while great for profits , its utter shit for us gamers .
Sammy has provided Sega with the funds to use when necessary..its not like there hasn't been any big budget game productions from sega since the merger...
There been a crackdown since 2012 i agree but before then we were getting solid games. The problem isn't sammy but SOJ. Whether you like it or not there's been too much of a consistent pattern with the manage sammy for that. You can't blame sammy for helping sega west a least compete again by giving the funds available. Why is Sega west at least effectivly allowed to do what they want and make wise decisions while SOJ couldn't or should i say wouldn't and not capable.
Sammy gave Creative Assembly moe funds to expand and create a new studio for this ALIEN ISOLATION game despite having closed down several sega western studios like Sega australia and cutting back at that period. And SOJ has been profitable but they are playing safe well before they needed to. Sammy may be cautious but they are not stopping SOJ doing anything. SOJ is stopping themselves. And its been like that really since the early 2000s.....here hasn't been a glimmer of the type of sega game from SOJ since their xbox launch titles and only a few dotted around since then. I very much doubt sammy is also telling SOJ to not localize any of their titles either. Face it SOJ management needs to change...
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Sammy has provided Sega with the funds to use when necessary..its not like there hasn't been any big budget game productions from sega since the merger
Sammy has slashed SEGA R&D spends by something like 25% and its shown in SOJ rubbish output of late .
You can't blame sammy for helping sega west a least compete again by giving the funds available. Why is Sega west at least effectivly allowed to do what they want and make wise decisions while SOJ couldn't or should i say wouldn't and not capable.
Why do you keep on brining up SEGA West ? Other than buying CA and SI - They've done nothing of note really and have plenty of disasters them self's be that the waste of time with the driving studio, the huge amount of money wasted on the likes of the Crucible, Alpha Protocol its quite sad really .
Face facts SOJ offer the die hard old SEGA fan little to cheer, much less look forward too
And SOJ has been profitable but they are playing safe well before they needed to
And how was that done - It was done by slashing R&D and milking SEGA old IP on the mobiles . Going forward SOJ got little to offer . Remember too that SEGA Japan was profitable before the Sammy Take over back in 2002
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Sammy has slashed SEGA R&D spends by something like 25% and its shown in SOJ rubbish output of late .
Still not addressing the years after the merger that sammy gave money to sega to do various big game productions. Its only lately they have cut back. Even then SOJ didn't go full tilt compared to SOA and SOE...which shows tthat SOJ was still incompetent...
Why do you keep on brining up SEGA West ? Other than buying CA and SI - They've done nothing of note really and have plenty of disasters them self's be that the waste of time with the driving studio, the huge amount of money wasted on the likes of the Crucible, Alpha Protocol its quite sad really .
And thank you for proving my point..the point is Sammy has provided the money when Sega needs it. So they can't be the true cause of SOJ doing nothing if they have provided millions on various projects, can they. The difference is Sega west when they were ran by hayes and co was ran better than SOJ was..that's the point..
Face facts SOJ offer the die hard old SEGA fan little to cheer, much less look forward too
Never said they did..that's the point of the topic..SOJ management is the problem. The fact is Sammy has given sega lots of money to do various big game productions..its SOJ management that isn't using the funds allocated to them.
And how was that done - It was done by slashing R&D and milking SEGA old IP on the mobiles . Going forward SOJ got little to offer . Remember too that SEGA Japan was profitable before the Sammy Take over back in 2002
No because the classic IP is not the games that sold the most it was the games in japan that have been the big sellers for mobile. And SOJ was profitable for two years...in the black..since Sammy they've seen bigger profits.And still Sammy has cut back across the board which is a recent thing and Sammy weren't responsible for Sega not localizing anything...
This has NOTHING to do with the way SOJ has been behaving. Are you gonna blame the saturn mess on Sammy too? Are you gonna blame the 32x on Sammy too? Or the DC or anything else...Face the facts SOJ management has and ALWAYS been the problem. Stop using scapegoats to cover SOJ management mistakes...there's always been a patern with SOJ management from the start. Until you face that and stop being a soj zealot maybe you'll be at peace.
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Still not addressing the years after the merger that sammy gave money to sega to do various big game productions. Its only lately they have cut back
How many of those productions were already in the pipeline though . Games like Yakuza were well into development before the Sammy Takeover
The difference is Sega west when they were ran by hayes and co was ran better than SOJ was..that's the point..
Well other than buying 2 class studios they've done little really and SEGA Europe were doing deals with SI before the Sammy Takeover and like I said SEGA west made plenty of cock up's like selling Visual Concepts off (mind you even I thought it made sense at the time) the waste of time that was the driving studio and so on . I'm not seeing much to cheer for or look forward to from either SEGA West or Japan
The fact is Sammy has given sega lots of money to do various big game
At the start Sammy seemed happy to continue funding the big games , but the last few years its been slashed and even SEGA Arcade divisions as seen Sammy cost cutting measures come into play .
Are you gonna blame the saturn mess on Sammy too? Are you gonna blame the 32x on Sammy too? Or the DC or anything else.
Sega Saturn and the 32X Hardware development did not cost SEGA Japan. It was the DC that was sold at a lost and saw SEGA build up massive debts . But in those days for all SOJ failings to keep SEGA cash flow in check one couldn't fault its consumer or Arcade game output even in the dark days of the end of the DC and consumer dream
Now even SEGA in the Arcades isn't the force it once was. Its new Arcade boards behind the tech Namco or even bloody TATIO offer for christ sake and where the hell is the likes of Virtual Fighter 6 . Its just not good enough . Sammy is slowly killing off the SEGA we both grew up with and loved
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Relax and have sex guys ;)
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SEGA America has made some pretty bad decisions which is why I'm sure SOJ doesn't want to give them any control. Just look at how they handled Aliens Colonial Marines, and now look at how they are handling Sonic Boom. SoJ is probably laughing at how Sonic Boom is crashing and burning. I can't imagine they were happy that SEGA America wanted to replace the Sonic Team Japanese Sonic. I imagine the only reason the game is being released in Japan is because their contract with Nintendo stated worldwide releases or something. Sonic hardly sells in Japan to begin with.
I'm not saying SoJ are angels or anything, they definitely make some decisions that annoy me. I definitely think it's better to have them in control though rather then SEGA West.
Who is division responsible for games not being localized to the west? They are who im most annoyed with.
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Just because the demo of the WiiU version did not gave a good impression doesnt mean the WHOLE project is going to fail...
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How many of those productions were already in the pipeline though . Games like Yakuza were well into development before the Sammy Takeover
Not the ones after it.
Well other than buying 2 class studios they've done little really and SEGA Europe were doing deals with SI before the Sammy Takeover and like I said SEGA west made plenty of cock up's like selling Visual Concepts off (mind you even I thought it made sense at the time) the waste of time that was the driving studio and so on . I'm not seeing much to cheer for or look forward to from either SEGA West or Japan
VC sell off was down to SOJ not Sega west. And i was against that...which at the end i was proven right considering how well they did with their sports games during 2004 and onwards. And SI and the Total wars publishing deals and eventual take over came after the merger not before.
At the start Sammy seemed happy to continue funding the big games , but the last few years its been slashed and even SEGA Arcade divisions as seen Sammy cost cutting measures come into play .
No one disputes that but that came because of they are cost cutting after what happened in 2012 But before that they have been supporting sega with the funds that they want . But they aren't responsible for how SOJ has handled things before or after the merger. Sammy has at least supported Sega in whatever they wish to do. Its the SOJ management that are messing things up not sammy. Sammy isn't telling SOJ to not localize, produce crap arcade games(which were becoming stale back in 2009/10 but you had to be mr different and argue against that as well...look who is right again on that BTW..)or even focus on digital gaming. That's all SOJ.
Sega Saturn and the 32X Hardware development did not cost SEGA Japan. It was the DC that was sold at a lost and saw SEGA build up massive debts . But in those days for all SOJ failings to keep SEGA cash flow in check one couldn't fault its consumer or Arcade game output even in the dark days of the end of the DC and consumer dream
It was the accumulation of those failures that ended up destroying the DC. Again it was down to SOJ management not being on the ball. Again this has nothing to do with the games but the ability of the japanese management not knowing what they are doing.
Now even SEGA in the Arcades isn't the force it once was. Its new Arcade boards behind the tech Namco or even bloody TATIO offer for christ sake and where the hell is the likes of Virtual Fighter 6 . Its just not good enough . Sammy is slowly killing off the SEGA we both grew up with and loved
Told you that four years ago...now you finally see it...
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SEGA America has made some pretty bad decisions which is why I'm sure SOJ doesn't want to give them any control. Just look at how they handled Aliens Colonial Marines, and now look at how they are handling Sonic Boom. SoJ is probably laughing at how Sonic Boom is crashing and burning. I can't imagine they were happy that SEGA America wanted to replace the Sonic Team Japanese Sonic. I imagine the only reason the game is being released in Japan is because their contract with Nintendo stated worldwide releases or something. Sonic hardly sells in Japan to begin with.
I'm not saying SoJ are angels or anything, they definitely make some decisions that annoy me. I definitely think it's better to have them in control though rather then SEGA West.
Who is division responsible for games not being localized to the west? They are who im most annoyed with.
SOA and SOE has a very strong track record. ALIENS CM is a unique situation that nobody foresaw. If SOJ wanted these games out in the west good golly they would BE released. Blaming Sega west for not localizing is silly because its SOJ that can order them to do it if they wanted them released.
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Not the ones after it
Where were ?
VC sell off was down to SOJ not Sega west
I'm sure the order came from the very top -Ie Sammy. But there's been plenty of screw ups by SEGA west . Sega America messed up various 360 and PS3 projects wasted loads on Secret Level and even in the 16 bit days saw fit to piss up 20 million on the Multi Media Studio -only for it make 2 games and piss more money down the drain with daft projects like the Mega Drive 3D glasses or Activtor .
SEGA Europe they done plenty of screw ups - They pissed loads on SEGA advertising money down the drain on stupid football sponsorship, screwed up with No Clich and SEGA Racing Studio and messed up on its own projects like Take the Bullet and so on
It was the accumulation of those failures that ended up destroying the DC
They hurt SEGA market share and in the end the bottom line . But development of the systems and selling the system didn't cost SEGA. The DC for the get go was sold at a lost and always at a lose to SEGA. Its a shame as NA@MI went on to be SEGA best selling Arcade board
Told you that four years ago
Huh I'm the one that's being having a go at SEGA Japan and Sammy for years . It's quite tragic that even TATIO offer better boards than SEGA thanks to Sammy cost cutting .
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Where were ?
Where were not..you should KNOW the fricking games...the point is they exist and some of us have played them so don't act that sammy didn't give sega the money to make games..it was SOJ to decide whether they keep making solid a sega games or not..and they didn't.
I'm sure the order came from the very top -Ie Sammy. But there's been plenty of screw ups by SEGA west . Sega America messed up various 360 and PS3 projects wasted loads on Secret Level and even in the 16 bit days saw fit to piss up 20 million on the Multi Media Studio -only for it make 2 games and piss more money down the drain with daft projects like the Mega Drive 3D glasses or Activtor .
So bloody what! SOA is responsible for making Sega into a household name in the states if not the rest of the world..Sega europe BUILT on the success of virgin mastertronic and made sega more succesful in UK and europe..SOJ didn't do that in their ENTIRE run as a console producer in Japan. You can't get away from it that the management culture in japan has to change...
"ohh SOA made this mistake and that one"..like that overshadows all the mistakes of SOJ..a record in failure after failure after failure...
SEGA Europe they done plenty of screw ups - They pissed loads on SEGA advertising money down the drain on stupid football sponsorship, screwed up with No Clich and SEGA Racing Studio and messed up on its own projects like Take the Bullet and so on
Compared to SOJ its a little teardrop in the rain...
They hurt SEGA market share and in the end the bottom line . But development of the systems and selling the system didn't cost SEGA. The DC for the get go was sold at a lost and always at a lose to SEGA. Its a shame as NA@MI went on to be SEGA best selling Arcade board
It did if the consumer ignored the machine which they did..which you were fond of telling me was down to the saturn and 32x failures..now you are saying they don't matter..Sega was operating at a loss by the time the DC had been released..and SOJ f ups didn't help it did they...so to keep saying this didn't matte when it clearly did is erroneous..
Huh I'm the one that's being having a go at SEGA Japan and Sammy for years . It's quite tragic that even TATIO offer better boards than SEGA thanks to Sammy cost cutting .
No TA is remember i said that the arcade games for AOU 2011 SEGA had was rubbish and that it was a downward trend..you as usual had to be mr popular and take the view of everyone else and say it wasn't..when the games on show were updates of previous games and card collecting titles..any sega hardcore gamer could see where things were going back then on the arcade side and we were proven right...the arcades have gone worse than they were back then sega wise...but they are still making money so...
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Huh I'm the one that's being having a go at SEGA Japan and Sammy for years . It's quite tragic that even TATIO offer better boards than SEGA thanks to Sammy cost cutting .
???
Games on TAITO Hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vT82_05qE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enXwyMSBhLo
Games of SEGA Hardware currently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eziwnDwB3ts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqU0Km7svzE
Nothing amazing on either hardware. Arcades haven't been impressive since a long time
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Games on TAITO Hardware:
Type X3 is vastly more powerful than SEGA's Ringedge 2, hell even my Laptop is more powerful than Ringedge 2 . The fact that SEGA Arcade teams make better games is never in doubt
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Type X3 is vastly more powerful than SEGA's Ringedge 2, hell even my Laptop is more powerful than Ringedge 2 . The fact that SEGA Arcade teams make better games is never in doubt
Backtracking again..you said that the games were rubbish...now you are saying that they are not? LOL!
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Backtracking again..you said that the games were rubbish...now you are saying that they are not? LOL!
Can you stop the lies ? . Never ever said SEGA make bad Arcade games and I'll defy you to show otherwise (Go on try it) . Techwise well that's a different story SEGA been behind Tatio's Type X series for years now and I bet it not be long before Namco makes a board based on the PS4 for SEGA to again be behind Namco too
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Can you stop the lies ? . Never ever said SEGA make bad Arcade games and I'll defy you to show otherwise (Go on try it) . Techwise well that's a different story SEGA been behind Tatio's Type X series for years now and I bet it not be long before Namco makes a board based on the PS4 for SEGA to again be behind Namco too
I'm not a liar...unfortunately for you you've been caught out several times in the same topic...and that was last month...
But you 've been complaing "that no one looks forward to sega games anymore" and how bad the arcade scene is segawise..suggesting that they are rubbish because they are using inferior tech. That's the implication. Now you are backtracking and saying tha the games are good? Really..backtracking 101..as usual..
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Face it SOJ management needs to change...
I wonder why Sammy won't put their foot down on the upper management and tell them to actually streamline their business or face the chop?
If SOJ is not doing anything due to Sammy putting their trust in them, then SOJ are kind of abusing the trust of their benefactors. I want SOJ to at least make an effort like the Western Branches, and I am sure Sammy wants SOJ to make games for the global market.
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I wonder why Sammy won't put their foot down on the upper management and tell them to actually streamline their business or face the chop?
If SOJ is not doing anything due to Sammy putting their trust in them, then SOJ are kind of abusing the trust of their benefactors. I want SOJ to at least make an effort like the Western Branches, and I am sure Sammy wants SOJ to make games for the global market.
I think its clear that's what's happening. If Sammy was really putting the shackles on sega than half the things we have seen sega do in the last few years just wouldn't have happened. Would their have been a BINARY DOMAIN for example which was a huge risk for them considering that Shooters are not that big in japan? Would atlus have been taken over by Sega as it was Sega that wanted the purchase and not Sammy. And the huge money thrown at Sega west to do whatever they wanted would not have happened either. Its obvious Sammy gives SOJ the funds for whatever and SOJ uses it on what they want. Yes there is a big cost cutting measure going on and in the months to come but this isn't something that will affect how SOJ decides to do things.
As i said before this problem existed before Sammy came alng..SOJ just became inselur and started and slowly withdrawing from the west in terms of their first party games..most of which just wouldn't appeal to the western gamer as they are japan centric...It was quiter bad in the early to mid noughties as many of their games were japan focused. The latest games are all on mobile and are RPGS..which some are coming over to the west..while others are games not being localised.
PSO 2 for example has proven to be a big hit for Sega...its built on the success of PHANTASY STAR PORTABLE where the game now is a brand that is a strong seller and popular to the public. But PSO like many of SOJ classic titles were more popular in the west before japan consumers woke up to the joys of PHANTASY STAR. And like what happened with the saturn SOJ shows the contempt by not releasing it over in the west. I doubt Sammy if they were totally controlling Sega would not let a succesful game not be released in the west for so long. So obviously SOJ has leeway to do what it wants within reason..just like Atlus is supposed to have now under Sega.
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Interesting insight.
Although shouldn't SOJ look at the potential numbers of their franchises performances if they marketed in the west? The likes of ATLUS, NISA and Vanillaware, despite being smaller in structure, know how to make a profit off of even nicher games. I'm sure SEGA's games still have more appeal to the West than say...Disgaea (I like that series myself, although I can see why it's niche).
If SOJ are really just thinking the West isn't into their games, then they could not be looking at the realistic numbers for their foreign customers. It's understandable if Yakuza flopped after a few attempts, but something like PSO2 shouldn't flop nearly as bad.
I guess the risk to them is that they would be seen as not appealing enough or perhaps thinking the audience is very small, which could be true since they aren't exposing themselves like yesteryear. Perhaps a shake up is indeed needed in the company, where a Alan Becker (??) type of person could come in and re-evaluate why SEGA have retreated their Japanese products solely in Japan (a market that is shrinking every generation) and perhaps encourage the upper management to actually make an effort with their current projects to perhaps make them more western aware that the audience is there, they just need to budget accordingly.
I don't honestly know if it'd work, but the current trend with the likes of SEGA, Konami and Capcom is that they are streamlining well known products and ignoring localising interesting games that could be the next big thing. In some cases, people are just seeing SEGA as a "has been" and Capcom as a company that refuses to use Mega Man. (although it depends on taste regarding MM, I personally don't think the series is that good but I respect those who love him)
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I heard Nagoshi say once that he prefers the method of getting popular in Japan and then "breaking" into the rest of the World. Not a bad way of going about it, doesn't seem to be happening tough.
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With the notice of Sega Europe is going to publish and distributed(Koch Media) an Atlus game, I see good reactions about that from fans of that company.
If this boost sales of P.Diva 2nd for whatever reason, it's is possible that they could try one more time localizing a game with mid-tier (expected) audience.
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I'm not a liar...unfortunately for you you've been caught out several times in the same topic...and that was last month...
You and its easy to prove and find you out . I'm not a fan of SEGA Arcade games ?
Who was saying this more than 4 years back ...
How ? its PC tech in every shape way and form . Its also vastly out powered, by the likes of 360 and the PS3 (christ shake, its a Mid range Pentium 4 , with a GeForce 6 card ) . Yet VS fighters developed from the ground up, for the 360 (DOA IV) or PS3 (Tekken 6) don't look as good as VF 5 imo , never mind when VF 5 Final ships . That's the sheer class of AM#2 , and there's never been a better character model than Eileen in any Vs 3D Fighter im
[/color][/color]You want to to list the total number of Lindberg games and RingEdge games developed by AM#2 ?. I'm sure they've pumped just a bit more, and imo games graphically far better too .SEGA Consumer Teams haven't been inthe same league Arcade Teams ,
[/color]
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=9.30 (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=9.30)
So sorry don't try that game with me ... Take it back and say sorry , that would be nice
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You and its easy to prove and find you out . I'm not a fan of SEGA Arcade games ?
Who was saying this more than 4 years back ...
Yawn keep spinning..no one said you weren't a fan....here is a reminder...
I'm not a liar...unfortunately for you you've been caught out several times in the same topic...and that was last month...
But you 've been complaing "that no one looks forward to sega games anymore" and how bad the arcade scene is segawise..suggesting that they are rubbish because they are using inferior tech. That's the implication. Now you are backtracking and saying tha the games are good? Really..backtracking 101..as usual.
Now tell me where exactly does it say that i said you weren't a fan of arcades? Don't you think people never read you're posts or mine? Caught out in lying once again...So sorry don't try that game with me ... Take it back and say sorry , that would be nice
I'd suggest you take that advice and prove where i said you weren't a fan. Never said it in this topic. All i said is you saying thatt he games are rubbish then when someone pays you atention you backtrack on what you said. Either the games are rubbish and the tech or they are not. Sto spinning please were all tired of it now...
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Interesting insight.
Although shouldn't SOJ look at the potential numbers of their franchises performances if they marketed in the west? The likes of ATLUS, NISA and Vanillaware, despite being smaller in structure, know how to make a profit off of even nicher games. I'm sure SEGA's games still have more appeal to the West than say...Disgaea (I like that series myself, although I can see why it's niche).
If SOJ are really just thinking the West isn't into their games, then they could not be looking at the realistic numbers for their foreign customers. It's understandable if Yakuza flopped after a few attempts, but something like PSO2 shouldn't flop nearly as bad.
I guess the risk to them is that they would be seen as not appealing enough or perhaps thinking the audience is very small, which could be true since they aren't exposing themselves like yesteryear. Perhaps a shake up is indeed needed in the company, where a Alan Becker (??) type of person could come in and re-evaluate why SEGA have retreated their Japanese products solely in Japan (a market that is shrinking every generation) and perhaps encourage the upper management to actually make an effort with their current projects to perhaps make them more western aware that the audience is there, they just need to budget accordingly.
I don't honestly know if it'd work, but the current trend with the likes of SEGA, Konami and Capcom is that they are streamlining well known products and ignoring localising interesting games that could be the next big thing. In some cases, people are just seeing SEGA as a "has been" and Capcom as a company that refuses to use Mega Man. (although it depends on taste regarding MM, I personally don't think the series is that good but I respect those who love him)
I've been arguing that for years with people who like to make popular comments that other people like without dealing with the facts. Its not like Sega didn't try to appeal to the west. We saw it with the initial xbox releases , the strengthening of their western divisions and getting platinum games and others to provide content..but most of that didn't work out. In japan however its been the opposite since they have ben making profit very quicky in their home market from the get go as a third party. But now the focus is too much on japan and not anywhere else.
And yes PSO2 would definitely have had a better chance than YAKUZA. The first PSO was popular in the west and its sequels..so PSO2 could have easily made a strong mark in the west. YAKUZA makes sense but that is all down to how they treated the game when it was first brought over to the west and not +embracing the title for what it is. As well as Sega west's poor marketing machine which affected other titles as well as YAKUZA.
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Now tell me where exactly does it say that i said you weren't a fan of arcades
You said
That's the implication. Now you are backtracking and saying tha the games are good? Really..backtracking 101..as usual..
Trying in a lame and pathetic way to make out that I backtracked on SEGA Arcade games being good . Sorry I am and always have been a fan of SEGA Arcade divisions
I'd suggest you take that advice and prove where i said you weren't a fan
You tried and failed like usual . I don't backtrack and haven't change my tune or view over SOJ for years - That probably what annoy most people granted . But I want the best for SEGA Japan ...I want to look forward to their games and tech like I used too and for the press and and gaming public to be talking good of SEGA again
If Sammy was really putting the shackles on sega than half the things we have seen sega do in the last few years just wouldn't have happened
Who slashed SEGA R&D spend by over 25% and at the time time canceled loads of games ? . C'Mon Sammy been sure to make SEGA slash it's costs and its shown in SEGA results . Great for profits not great for us gamers imo
Would their have been a BINARY DOMAIN for example which was a huge risk for them considering that Shooters are not that big in japan
3rd person shooters/action games can sell in decent numbers in Japan and if you dress in the game up with robots and what not.
You've got a better chance more so if it comes from a Japanese developer.
PSO 2 for example has proven to be a big hit for Sega...its built on the success of PHANTASY STAR PORTABLE where the game now is a brand that is a strong seller and popular to the public. But PSO like many of SOJ classic titles were more popular in the west before japan consumers woke up to the joys of PHANTASY STAR.
I'm sure PSO have always sold and done better in Japan and PSO came out in Japan 1st and was an instant hit for a DC title over there . PSO II just shows how dull the current SEGA board is . Its a game that on the PC that not only could be ported to current consoles with easy (given they share much the same tech) , but also would work better in the west , given the internet and PC's are much more widespread.
SEGA Japan are just losing it big time and seriously need to up their game . They need some serious next gen pipelines and really need to sort their act out on getting IP that can work on the worldwide stage. Look to the Japanese market which is shirking year on year and becoming handheld central just isn't the answer . Its depressing as these were the same issues SEGA had last gen and its done nothing to sort them out
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You said
I know what i said...too bad you can't spin it. try again...
I'm not a liar...unfortunately for you you've been caught out several times in the same topic...and that was last month...
But you 've been complaing "that no one looks forward to sega games anymore" and how bad the arcade scene is segawise..suggesting that they are rubbish because they are using inferior tech. That's the implication. Now you are backtracking and saying tha the games are good? Really..backtracking 101..as usual.
Now here is some of your recent comments...
Now even SEGA in the Arcades isn't the force it once was. Its new Arcade boards behind the tech Namco or even bloody TATIO offer for christ sake
and its shown in SOJ rubbish output of late .
Which indicates everything they have made including arcade games...then in a comment to someone else you said the arcade teams are still making good games..
The fact that SEGA Arcade teams make better games is never in doubt
see how one contradicts the other? ::) So backtracking is the word here...
Trying in a lame and pathetic way to make out that I backtracked on SEGA Arcade games being good . Sorry I am and always have been a fan of SEGA Arcade divisions
you simply have little understanding of the english language. You said arcade games from sega recently are bad because they use low tech. That was an implication. No where does it say that you aren't a fan of sega arcade games which have a whole history going back 70 years or 40 years if we separate SOJ stuff. So hard luck. If i said you weren't a fan of sega arcade games that would be different but i didn't. I just said you were saying that you effectively stated that their arcade games of recent years are bad and then all of a sudden you back tracked. That was what he conversation was focused on. That's what people who replied on this also understood. Dont try to spin this into something it wasn't. You are such a frigging liar....for gods sake just stop. No one falls for your baloney anymore...
You tried and failed like usual . I don't backtrack and haven't change my tune or view over SOJ for years
32x,saturn,MD arcade...Sega performance...the recent performance of sega and other companies in a recent topic...yeah you back track all the time..something i don't really need to prove either since its easy to find as well as everyone seeing you do it in action. Everyone has seen it here. Everyone knows it. Geez you really are living in a fantasy world...
- That probably what annoy most people granted . But I want the best for SEGA Japan ...I want to look forward to their games and tech like I used too and for the press and and gaming public to be talking good of SEGA again
In the nineties you mean when Sega and the arcades were really strong? Were not in the nineties anymore. Sega has to adapt to the way the market is. I don't like it but i accept it because i understand the market. Its about time you did.
Who slashed SEGA R&D spend by over 25% and at the time time canceled loads of games ? . C'Mon Sammy been sure to make SEGA slash it's costs and its shown in SEGA results . Great for profits not great for us gamers imo
That's recently. Stop trying to use that excuse as the main reason for SOJ fracking things up. SOJ has fracked up since day one. All sammy has done is give them what they needed when possible. So don't try to brainwash people that sammy is the evil guy here we all know SOJ management is a mess and always has been..regardless if CSK or Sammy were in charge.
3rd person shooters/action games can sell in decent numbers in Japan and if you dress in the game up with robots and what not.
Yeah tell that to VANQUISH and BINARY DOMAIN....
You've got a better chance more so if it comes from a Japanese developer.
my previous comment still stands...
I'm sure PSO have always sold and done better in Japan and PSO came out in Japan 1st and was an instant hit for a DC title over there . PSO II just shows how dull the current SEGA board is . Its a game that on the PC that not only could be ported to current consoles with easy (given they share much the same tech) , but also would work better in the west , given the internet and PC's are much more widespread.
Are you advocating why it shouldn't be brought over? that what it sounds like.
And regardless of whether its good or not as a customer that supported sega products for years many of them would like that choice to actually play it and see if they like it. That option is not given to them. And the reality is this..PHANTASY STAR as a series has sold BETTER in the west than in japan. That's a fact. Sega products historically have sold better in the west..without the west there wouldn't have been a PSO to get good sales in japan to begin with. And SOJ's gratitude for that is to deny them the latest releases in the PHANTASY STAR franchise. To me it doesn't matter but to a lot of people it sure does. Its an insult to a base that has helped make Sega what they are not japan. But zealots like you and the SOJ bastard management will continue to deny and treat them like dirt...
SEGA Japan are just losing it big time and seriously need to up their game . They need some serious next gen pipelines and really need to sort their act out on getting IP that can work on the worldwide stage. Look to the Japanese market which is shirking year on year and becoming handheld central just isn't the answer . Its depressing as these were the same issues SEGA had last gen and its done nothing to sort them out
same old story yet Sega is one of the bigger corps and doing better than capcom and half the japanese companies combined. Come back when you have a better excuse....
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You said arcade games from sega recently are bad because they use low tech.
No . I said they're impressive even with the lower tech . I'll defy you to show otherwise and if you can't don't say it and take it back .
32x,saturn,MD arcade...Sega performance.
Never changed my views on the Saturn, 32X or DC and as for SEGA performance I've been saying for over 5 years SEGA Japan needs to up its game .
In the nineties you mean when Sega and the arcades were really strong?
No I'm also about XBox and Cube days too. When SEGA was strong both in the Arcades and at home -maybe not with games sales, but SEGA cutting edge games were there in force and it had brilliant tech.
That's recently. Stop trying to use that excuse as the main reason for SOJ fracking things up.
Sorry its not recent . SAMMY been slowly slashing SEGA R&D spend and taking quick and easy fixes . The Platinum deal , dropping Ueda-san concept game and so on its goes .
Yeah tell that to VANQUISH and BINARY DOMAIN.
That's SEGA inept PR . Good God 3rd person shooters like Gundam and Armored Core have been going for years 3rd person shooters do sell in Japan.
Are you advocating why it shouldn't be brought over? that what it sounds like
PSO II should have been out years ago over here . Looking over the wider user bases of PC users in the West . PSO appeal was that it was a true World Wide game and how you could communicate and player with users from around the world . That was one of the magical aspects of PSO and that lost with PSO II until it goes world wide and its also baffling how its not on the next gen consoles too .
same old story yet Sega is one of the bigger corps and doing better than capcom and half the japanese companies combined
Only SEGA Japan isn't . All its doing is milking its old IP better . In terms of games that sell and work on the world wide stage SEGA is way behind most and depressingly already behind Capcom , FromSoftware in terms of tech .
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No . I said they're impressive even with the lower tech . I'll defy you to show otherwise and if you can't don't say it and take it back .
You didn't say that at first you said that all of SOJ's output was terrible...then you backtracked and said the arcade games were good....
Never changed my views on the Saturn, 32X or DC and as for SEGA performance I've been saying for over 5 years SEGA Japan needs to up its game .
Yes you have countless times..no point going into it most people seen you back track down the years on it.
No I'm also about XBox and Cube days too. When SEGA was strong both in the Arcades and at home -maybe not with games sales, but SEGA cutting edge games were there in force and it had brilliant tech.
Strange i never mentioned the early days of Sega's second run as a third party. Keep to the point...
Sorry its not recent . SAMMY been slowly slashing SEGA R&D spend and taking quick and easy fixes . The Platinum deal , dropping Ueda-san concept game and so on its goes .
No that is all SOJ...and i really doubt that they have been cutting from day one. Considering the amount of money sega received from them for producing so many titles including the expensive PG deal which you were complaining about. So again you contradict yourself...Again stop blaming Sammy for the faults of Soj management. Geez if this was over 20 years ago you'd be agreeing with th SOJ management on Kalinske's proposals to break into the american market..funny you were proven wrong on that too about the ALTERED BEAST devil comment...
That's SEGA inept PR . Good God 3rd person shooters like Gundam and Armored Core have been going for years 3rd person shooters do sell in Japan.
Not ones heavily influenced by the west. They have had a very bad track record in terms of sales...only a few get some numbers but not all.BD was meant to succeed in the west
PSO II should have been out years ago over here . Looking over the wider user bases of PC users in the West . PSO appeal was that it was a true World Wide game and how you could communicate and player with users from around the world . That was one of the magical aspects of PSO and that lost with PSO II until it goes world wide and its also baffling how its not on the next gen consoles too .
No disagreement on that...
Only SEGA Japan isn't . All its doing is milking its old IP better . In terms of games that sell and work on the world wide stage SEGA is way behind most and depressingly already behind Capcom , FromSoftware in terms of tech .
It isn't milking its old ip. Its making new ip but are released on a format that not many of us will get to play. And those games sell really strong.
And we have seen Sega unveil new tech which are mainly used in arcaes or solo games..BD didn't do well so there you go..
And sega makes more money both those companies combined on the worldstage...so they are hardly behind...
again you've been saying this tech thing since the mid noughties...It hasn't stopped them then and it isn't stopping them now..although i do agree there needs to be a change...and SOJ management is the first thing to change..since that's what's blocking everything else...
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You didn't say that at first you said that all of SOJ's output was terrible...then you backtracked and said the arcade games were good
Consumer Teams, never Arcade and its quite clear even way back in topics from 4 years ago .
Yes you have countless times
Prove It
onsidering the amount of money sega received from them for producing so many titles including the expensive PG deal which you were complaining about.
The Platinum deal was part of the issues and the quick easy fix I was on about . Like I said back inthe day . SEGA Japan should have been having it own internal teams making action games and letting its own Teams go wide , rather than paying Platinum teams for the pleasure .
Strange i never mentioned the early days of Sega's second run as a third party
SEGA was great and strong up until 2005 and then its all started to go a bit pear shaped sadly.
No that is all SOJ...and i really doubt that they have been cutting from day one
Not not from day one, but from about 2009 onwards.
agreeing with th SOJ management on Kalinske's proposals to break into the american market..
Doing well in America is more of a must these days . Shame SEGA Japan or Sammy can't see that .
Its making new ip but are released on a format that not many of us will get to play
What major new IP is SEGA working on ? . SEGA Japan is nowhere on the next gen consoles really
BD didn't do well so there you go
When when you don't spent money or PR or push a product what does one expect ? . Launching a new IP at the tail of the consoles life was always a risky move too . SEGA should have the balls to stick with it , many IP don't do so great at the 1st attempt but then go on to get big sales
The likes of John Madden, Yakuza (where the 1st title didn't sell that massive) I really don't think Call of Duty on the PC or Monster Hunter on the PS2 were sales monsters but the publisher stuck with them and turned them in to sales monsters, same goes for the likes of Demon's Souls. Binary Domian is a brilliant games that needs a sequel to fix the 1st titles main issues of a lack of On-Line modes and 4 player On-Line co-op
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Consumer Teams, never Arcade and its quite clear even way back in topics from 4 years ago .
Nope you said SOJ output..the arcade is part of their output...don't bother spinning now...since it was clear on this topic that we were talking about sega games overall not just the consumer part.
Prove It
Ask aki and george..or do i have to drag the entire topic here to..like i said no need to when everyone here saw what happened.But even then i'm sure you will try and spin it to something else...sad really and childish...
The Platinum deal was part of the issues and the quick easy fix I was on about . Like I said back inthe day . SEGA Japan should have been having it own internal teams making action games and letting its own Teams go wide , rather than paying Platinum teams for the pleasure .
No it isn't. Its like anything a company the size of sega..getting contract studios to create games for them. And you 're sega history is really poor with that statement. In the old days they did exactly the same thing..having their internal teams making games in various genres and an outside team making games in the exact genres the internal teams were making games on. Really kids today...spinning lying and no knowledge of the company they think they know something about...
SEGA was great and strong up until 2005 and then its all started to go a bit pear shaped sadly.
Absolute tosh and poppycock. The mid noughties 2003-2007 was one of the worse sega gaming periods we have next to this period from 2013..onwards...SONIC 2006..NIGHTS 2..MONKEY BALL games that wasn't up to scratch...endless megadrive ports...bad western games like THE MATRIX and LEAGCY ONLINE...hardly a golden period at all...
Not not from day one, but from about 2009 onwards.
Baloney.
Doing well in America is more of a must these days . Shame SEGA Japan or Sammy can't see that .
Sammy the same company that recently expanded creative assembly's operations in the UK. Sammy who also helped sega europe to purchase Relic...oh yes they really are blind. If they had no intrest in the west they would n't have bothered giving SOJ the money so their divisions could make that purchase...again ignorance and no knowledge of the company or current realities in the market place of gaming...
What major new IP is SEGA working on ? . SEGA Japan is nowhere on the next gen consoles really
A shrinking maket that new gamers who are into social facebook and mobile gaming, who dont give a fig about? you are living in the past. You are acting that Sega has always ben in the lead for new tech since they were a third party...when the reality is they haven't. They have been in the lead on sega systems...but not as a third party.
I wonder if you are one of those idiots who thought sega games would blitz the gaming world because their systems were hindering them? Another myth destroyed since it showed that sega is an acquired taste. Again that type of mentality was typical of nintendo and PSX zealots who don't know about gaming...
When when you don't spent money or PR or push a product what does one expect ? . Launching a new IP at the tail of the consoles life was always a risky move too . SEGA should have the balls to stick with it , many IP don't do so great at the 1st attempt but then go on to get big sales
BD was advertised to the hilt in japan and still nothing happened. So SOJ doesn't have an excuse really...but again the market for that type of game isn't strong in japan...
The likes of John Madden, Yakuza (where the 1st title didn't sell that massive) I really don't think Call of Duty on the PC or Monster Hunter on the PS2 were sales monsters but the publisher stuck with them and turned them in to sales monsters, same goes for the likes of Demon's Souls. Binary Domian is a brilliant games that needs a sequel to fix the 1st titles main issues of a lack of On-Line modes and 4 player On-Line co-op
Different eras and different times...apples and oranges..and as for BD2, Well they're not doing that are they..not anytime soon...
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Nope you said SOJ output..the arcade is part of their output
I'm on about the consumer teams simple as .
Ask aki and george..
I really don't know why you want to drag the likes of them into it , but by all means I'll defy anyone to show where I've back tracked on SEGA Arcade teams (in terms of making good games) Sega Saturn or the 32X .
Try it
Its like anything a company the size of sega..getting contract studios to create games for them
The deal was horrible and insulting to SOJ own internal teams . They should be allowed too and made to make action games, not pay a outside japan studio to do it for them . Its not like SEGA Japan hasn't or can't make great action games . The mid noughties 2003-2007 was one of the worse sega gaming periods we have next to this period from
I said 2005 . 2003 to 2005 was some of the best from SEGA. If you're going to make out that Panzer Dragoon Orta, VF 4 EVO, Yakuza , SEGA GT Online, F-Zero GX , OutRun 2, Outrun 2006 , HOTD III , Billy H were bad SEGA games ...I'll have to ask just what SEGA fan are you .
Baloney
True projects cancled and games like Val moved to PSP to save on costs and keep risks low .
Sammy the same company that recently expanded creative assembly's operations in the UK. Sammy who also helped sega europe to purchase Relic.
CA haven't grown that much and Relic is hardly going to have a major impact and under Sammy SEGA West seen not only it's In-House presence but also its premisses diminish . To do well in the USA you need to be on the consoles and offer the USA gamer games they want . Sorry the likes of PC games like Total War or Football Manager aren't really going to do it for you
A shrinking maket that new gamers who are into social facebook and mobile gaming,
PS4 and XBox One sales are 80% above that of what the PS3 and XBox 360 sales were. Shirking markert my ass
According to NPD, "Hardware sales doubled in July 2014 (vs. July 2013), stemming from growth in eighth generation console sales which offset declines in seventh generation console and portable hardware." If you take the first nine months of PS4 and Xbox One being on the market, and compare them to the first respective nine months PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 were on the market, PS4 and Xbox One are outselling their predecessor combined by nearly 80 percent.
BD was advertised to the hilt in japan and still nothing happened
What Nagoshi-san going around Japan in a truck lol and the odd ad . In the west it was ever worse with no major press or TV push . Pathetic
Different eras and different times
Demon souls was made in This era.
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I'm on about the consumer teams simple as .
No the discussion was about SOJ overall...how sad that you keep backtracking...all the proof i need...
Try it
I did in this topic alone you just backtracked on the sega arcade teams making crap tech and games and then saying they're better. And really everyone KNOWS about your stance on the 32x and how you tried to twist that too. See tried it. with no little effort.
The deal was horrible and insulting to SOJ own internal teams . They should be allowed too and made to make action games, not pay a outside japan studio to do it for them . Its not like SEGA Japan hasn't or can't make great action games .
Again you are an idiot. SOJ has always got second party companies to create titles in genres that the main teams already make games in. To point out PG as being an exception of the rule just gores to show you're lack of knowledge in video games and sega history.
I said 2005 . 2003 to 2005 was some of the best from SEGA. If you're going to make out that Panzer Dragoon Orta, VF 4 EVO, Yakuza , SEGA GT Online, F-Zero GX , OutRun 2, Outrun 2006 , HOTD III , Billy H were bad SEGA games ...I'll have to ask just what SEGA fan are you .
A sega fan with better taste than you. BILLY H was crap..i said that back then..VF EVO was a title that ended up doing something Sega didn't do before with VF by making multiple versions of VF with no real update. Also the tekken esque character style was UnVF like. And really those titles were released sporadically not on a constant basis so don't try that sega was releasing great games after great games..they weren't. A lot of the releases during that time was utter crap.
True projects cancled and games like Val moved to PSP to save on costs and keep risks low .
Yawn you are making out that Sammy hasn't stopped cutting...that is baloney. Everyone here knows they were re organizing because of the high R and D costs which was a company wide thing. When things got better sammy provided money for SOJ..yet SOJ still mismanaged the funds...So you can keep lying and twisting all you want...
CA haven't grown that much and Relic is hardly going to have a major impact and under Sammy SEGA West seen not only it's In-House presence but also its premisses diminish . To do well in the USA you need to be on the consoles and offer the USA gamer games they want . Sorry the likes of PC games like Total War or Football Manager aren't really going to do it for you
Stop talking nonsense. The fact is if Sammy is holding sega back then none of those companies would n't have been brought by sega in the first place let alone expanded as in the case of Creative assembly. So yet again keep spreading the anti segasammy propaganda capcom loser fan...
PS4 and XBox One sales are 80% above that of what the PS3 and XBox 360 sales were. Shirking markert my ass
HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA\AA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aki slammed and owned you on that particular debate and was proved beyond doubt that this isn't the case...you are really delusional...its a regret i even started this thing with you. Its a waste of my precious time...
What Nagoshi-san going around Japan in a truck lol and the odd ad . In the west it was ever worse with no major press or TV push . Pathetic
No it had plenty of advertising on TV and magazines and the web so stop talking poop...
Demon souls was made in This era.
Exactly, different eras and different times...hard to compare them..unlike you who keep slumping things together...
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I did in this topic alone
Yeah and had a epic fail . Try again .
SOJ has always got second party companies to create titles in genres that the main teams already make games in
Nope and it was different when SEGA was a console maker as you had to make sure one's console had a supply of new games, so you had to use outside studios to help out . These days SEGA Japan just lost too much ground to it's rivals and its clear for all to see.
.VF EVO was a title that ended up doing something Sega didn't do before with VF by making multiple versions of VF with no real update.
What on earth are you on about ?. Evo was a massive update and a new game in its own right . Looking over the new characters (which were all brilliant ) VF Evo Arcade quest mode with real AI data from VF 4 Arcade champions was incredible and way ahead of its time .
.that is baloney
Val was moved to the handheld to cut costs and less risk and SEGA Japan says goodbye to its Canvas engine .
Stop talking nonsense.
Get your facts right . SEGA Europe has downsizes massively and see huge job losses across the board with the likes of SEGA Germany being hit hard . SEGA America fared even worse with close down of Sonic Team USA, Secret level and again massive job losses in its main offices. CA also had to downsize and close its satellite studios .
Relic is a nice buy but they didn't do much for THQ and I doubt they'll have a huge impact for SEGA sales in the west
Aki slammed and owned you on that particular debate and was proved beyond doubt that this isn't the case.
No he never and I'm posting facts based on NPD data and its simply a fact that PS4 and XBox One sale are 80% of what 360 and PS3 sales were in their equivalent life time
Fact
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/08/14/playstation-4-the-last-of-us-mario-kart-8-top-the-sales-charts (http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/08/14/playstation-4-the-last-of-us-mario-kart-8-top-the-sales-charts)
According to NPD, "Hardware sales doubled in July 2014 (vs. July 2013), stemming from growth in eighth generation console sales which offset declines in seventh generation console and portable hardware." If you take the first nine months of PS4 and Xbox One being on the market, and compare them to the first respective nine months PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 were on the market, PS4 and Xbox One are outselling their predecessor combined by nearly 80 percent.
No it had plenty of advertising on TV and magazines
Rubbish it had nothing in USA or Europe and just the bog standard push in Japan .
Exactly, different eras and different times
Demons souls came out in the same era and same gen as Binary Domain *rolls eye's*
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Yeah and had a epic fail . Try again .
:)) You just can't stop lying can you? What a sad act of desperation..denial. :))
I'm not going to bother replying to the rest its just the same vicious circle..
But i will say this...
TA please leave me alone. You are a liar a spinner and a non entity. Your view on Sega and games in general is corrupted to fit your world view of things that wasn't true and not true now. I can't be bothered with people who wont see the facts when its plain looking them in the face as you did with the capcom topic. I can't be bothered with you making a whole debate out of a single comment which had nothing to do with the actual topic to begin with and i can't be bothered with ignorant people like you. Just don't bother replying. I'm fed up with your posts, you, and me making excuses for your behavior to other people in this forum.
If people are interested in the tactics TA uses i'd suggest you read this book..is down to him to a T....
(http://www.wpromote.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lies_and_the_lying_liars.jpg)
Because that's effectively what dealing with TA is all about...
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You just can't stop lying can you?
You were the one caught out . Trying to make out I don't like SEGA Arcade games, only you came a cropper on that score ..
And you've been totally proved wrong on this generation sales vs the last generation sales . Its took MS some 3 years to sell 10 million plus 360's , Sony some 2 year with it's PS3. Yet the PS4 does it in under 9 months and the XBox One is way ahead of the 360 in sales for the same period in their life time
This after the worse recession in living memory and you make out the market its decline - Laughable
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I live in my own fantasy world..and i LIE too..yipee!
And im a Laughable even though i was proved wrong by four other people i will keep lying just so i can convince myself...
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3081.0 (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3081.0)
This is the topic where TA's world gets owned and owned and OWNED again. Its a good read too!
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How can one be owned when one is using actual market data ?
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The idea that PC based developers don't make money is silly. In fact, there are a number of major advantages to PC based game development over consoles. Putting your games on Steam means you have much less overheads in terms of mass production of disks, boxes, manuals, shipping etc. Also you do not have a retailer such as Gamestop taking a massive cut. Valve takes nowhere near as much as bricks and mortar retailers. You can sell less copies and end up with a much bigger profit.
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The idea that PC based developers don't make money is silly.
I love to know why I or anyone had said that . I simply said games sales are better on consoles and for most of the major publishers, that where they make most of their money those are the facts and while the major players focus more now on consoles and spend huges sums on consoles development and shows like E3 .
In fact, there are a number of major advantages to PC based game development over consoles.
The biggest plus are the one's that's been there from the start .. ie no developer free's no need for the game to be approved or to make changes due to issues to quality control . But then there are a few downsides to PC development and its lack of standardised hardware and how most of retail or the likes of MS now give PC gaming less of a push
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How can one be owned when one is using actual market data ?
Yes the data aki used in his argument against you. Nuff said.
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Yes the data aki used in his argument against you. Nuff said.
? The simple facts are the Wii had a far better launch than the Wii . This generation of hardware for both SONY and MS is way above that of last gen sales - Those are facts in fact the PS4 sells a million in the UK already - that's even infront on the PS2 sales for the UK .
Facts and anyone who looks at the likes of Ubisoft, EA and Activsions , 2K sales resuts will consoles sales out peforming their PC sales for the most part
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? The simple facts are the Wii had a far better launch than the Wii.
The Wii Cycle ::) ....If you say about the Wii U launch it was better but look the sales of established franchises from the Wii like Wii Fit, Mario Sonic, Wii Sports, Wii Party that have an entry in the WiiU and compares the sales. It is not the same thing.
This generation of hardware for both SONY and MS is way above that of last gen sales - Those are facts in fact the PS4 sells a million in the UK already - that's even infront on the PS2 sales for the UK .[/size]
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[/size]If you consider that now there is more people who play videogames than before and is more a massive media than ever, yes but there is not much difference in the results because the average output is the same and also the amount of AAA titles is decreasing year by year.[size=78%]
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Facts and anyone who looks at the likes of Ubisoft, EA and Activsions , 2K sales resuts will consoles sales out peforming their PC sales for the most part
Yes but they are not all the industry. Look Riot Games or Mojang or even Valve. With one game or service each one they have the biggest amount of players right now.
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If you say about the Wii U launch it was better but look the sales of established franchises from the Wii like Wii Fit, Mario Sonic, Wii Sports, Wii Party that have an entry in the WiiU and compares the sales. It is not the same thing.
I'm not making out the Wii U had a better launch . The Wii had one of the best launches out of all the consoles, the Wii U launch wasn't that great.
If you consider that now there is more people who play videogames than before and is more a massive media than ever, yes but there is not much difference in the results because the average output is the same and also the amount of AAA titles is decreasing year by year
? I'm just making out that consoles sales in the west are far from in decline . This generation has seen simply amazing sales ratio's in the west (way above that of last gen) and this after the worst recession most people can ever remember .
Just look how much Activision made off the back of Density in one day . Over $500 million dollars and people here want to make out that consoles sales are in decline ?
Yes but they are not all the industry. Look Riot Games or Mojang or even Valve.
In terms of size and revenue the likes of Ubisoft make the likes of Riot look small . All the big major players have their feets well and truly in the consoles and that's where most of them enjoy their best sales for the most part