Author Topic: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming  (Read 28868 times)

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #90 on: September 28, 2010, 12:37:00 pm »
Quote
Like I said before, they were those types of Brain/educational  onthe PC and even CDI, never mind BBC Micro and ZX Spectrum
I'll give NCL credit for making it into the sucess it became, not that they were the 1st to make it.
Lots of games are credited as being 1st, but there's been examples of them on forgotten consoles or computers . I know lots that like to credit Konami or Harmonics with being the 1st for music based games and controllers , when there was virtual Guitar on the PC back in early 90's
And let's missed the point shall we? I said Kawashima's style BT games i didn't say who started the genre first. Sega made the K BT game first Nintendo just did their version as a game and released it outside japan.Point is Nintendo wouldn't have bothered if they didn't see the results of sega's version.I don't need a history lesson in gaming but when it comes to certain subjects like sega you need a few educational tips.

Quote
Yes with out PSO Capcom wouldn't have made HH just like SEGA would never have made Streets Of Rage with out Final Fight, no Final Fight with out the likes of Double Dragon or Kung Fu Master .

Yawn and who turned up to be the better game?  Copying a game and progressing a genre in a game are two entirely different things. PSO just progressed a genre that diablo started. Simpsons wild ride game or whatever it was called was a plain rip off copy and a bad one in that. That's essentially the point. The DC had many firsts and many spins on games and the instant impact it had on the industry is still plain to see with certain titles including HR. Unfortunatly people like you and others in this industry keep trying to minimise the impact of Sega and the DC had.



Quote
Now that's better people can have a nice debate and point out each systems strengths and their own thoughts on the systems

Please don't patronise me. If you stuck to the topic which you hardly ever do then any debates which you happen to have won't turn into a slagging fest, which you've been more guilty of in this forum than i have. I've given more fair comment on the saturn than you have for the DC and like i said countless times the DC isn't my sega system of choice.But i don't let my love for something blind me of what the contribution was.

Quote

Omikron came out before Shenmue and was annouced before anyone had heard of Shenmue , infact it started development on the PS. I just don't know why you're going on the Shenmue engine.  Its just an engine, and the French more than most have a long history in making very cinematic games, and real open world games were all coming into force with the birth of 3DFX cards on the PC and games like the The Elder Scroll series with part II really being one of the 1st to feature fully 3D worlds

Really, Because I seem to remember SHENMUE getting scheduled for the saturn before it was stopped in 97,meaning the game started developement way before Omikron. Also remeber that shenmue video of the saturn version was doing the rounds way before then. So let's call a spade a spade and just say that Omikron was just an impressionistic copy of SHENMUE while HR is more or less a copy with some progressive points. Not that i can tell from looking at the game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #91 on: September 28, 2010, 05:07:39 pm »
Quote
Point is Nintendo wouldn't have bothered if they didn't see the results of sega's version

And this SEGA game was called what ?. I'll never make out that Nintendogs was the 1st true Pet sim, but NCL were smart enough to make it Huge.

Quote
PSO just progressed a genre that diablo started. Simpsons wild ride game or whatever it was called was a plain rip off copy and a bad one in that. That's essentially the point. The DC had many firsts and many spins on games and the instant impact it had on the industry is still plain to see with certain titles including HR. Unfortunatly people like you and others in this industry keep trying to minimise the impact of Sega and the DC had

PSO just took a format that worked on the PC and made it work on a Console, it was a work of true genius. Crazy Taxi was sort of a game quite unlike any other , but there were very few truly unique DC games , and that isn't to downplay the DC at all, or its impact on gaming.

As much as hate to say it, the PS would be a system with more truly unique games, and did more than most to establish new genre's (or ones that didn't really work on consoles before)

Quote
Please don't patronise me.

Even when ones tries to be nice, you have to throw a insult in . I just don't get it at all . I don't even hate the DC, at haven't a clue what ever would give you that idea (out of the SEGA systems I think the 32X and Gamegear were poor, the others brilliant)

Quote
Because I seem to remember SHENMUE getting scheduled for the saturn before it was stopped in 97

No-one ever knew of of the Shenmue Project until the Dreamcast talk was well established in 1998 and until Shenmue II on the DC,  no-one ever knew it started out as a Saturn title . Omikron just wasn't really influenced by Shenmue at all
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2010, 12:51:27 pm »
Quote
And this SEGA game was called what ?. I'll never make out that Nintendogs was the 1st true Pet sim, but NCL were smart enough to make it Huge.

That's the story of Sega's career since the MS. Geez where have you been? Sega starts something NCL just copies it and manges to make it a bigger success. Not just NCL but a few others. You of all people SHOULD know that.


Quote
PSO just progressed a genre that diablo started. Simpsons wild ride game or whatever it was called was a plain rip off copy and a bad one in that. That's essentially the point. The DC had many firsts and many spins on games and the instant impact it had on the industry is still plain to see with certain titles including HR. Unfortunatly people like you and others in this industry keep trying to minimise the impact of Sega and the DC had

Quote
PSO just took a format that worked on the PC and made it work on a Console, it was a work of true genius. Crazy Taxi was sort of a game quite unlike any other , but there were very few truly unique DC games , and that isn't to downplay the DC at all, or its impact on gaming.
Again who argued with that? But it still progressed the genre. The DC had games that impacted on other game genres or kicked started it more than the PS ever did. And that's an acheivement considering the DC had a much shorter lifespan.

Quote
As much as hate to say it, the PS would be a system with more truly unique games, and did more than most to establish new genre's (or ones that didn't really work on consoles before)
More third parties, more user base but no it didn't really estabilsh more genres.

Quote
Please don't patronise me.

Quote
Even when ones tries to be nice, you have to throw a insult in . I just don't get it at all . I don't even hate the DC, at haven't a clue what ever would give you that idea (out of the SEGA systems I think the 32X and Gamegear were poor, the others brilliant)

Again you were patronising me pure and simple. So don't play the matry act.

Quote
No-one ever knew of of the Shenmue Project until the Dreamcast talk was well established in 1998 and until Shenmue II on the DC,  no-one ever knew it started out as a Saturn title . Omikron just wasn't really influenced by Shenmue at all
Bollocks mate. Plain and simple.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline crackdude

  • *
  • Posts: 4256
  • Total Meseta: 64
  • Nintendo Bling
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2010, 04:11:56 pm »
(someone put a TL;DR warning in the title please) ;p
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
SEG4GES

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #94 on: September 30, 2010, 10:55:13 am »
Quote
Sega starts something NCL just copies it and manges to make it a bigger success. Not just NCL but a few others. You of all people SHOULD know that.

I Just  want to know is the name of this game and the system it was on . I just hope you're not on about some SEGA Toy game or some cheap electronic Hand-held game.
Many genre's and many games own thier origins to the USA and The West, the place that gave birth to Video games and Arcades .

SEGA is just as guilty as most for coping , like it did with SEGA GT, Columns, Streets Of Rage, Space Channel 5  ECT. Its not knocking SEGA since every corp as copied it other games and idea's over the years, and I mean ever Corp


Quote
The DC had games that impacted on other game genres or kicked started it more than the PS ever did. And that's an acheivement considering the DC had a much shorter lifespan.

More of the truth is that the PS gave birth or did more to establish genre's than the DC . Again , that's not knocing the DC, just saying that thanks to the PS  insane popularity and support,  that it  meant a wide and varied almost limitless support of games , and the establishing on genre's that are bog standard on the consoles today.

Be that World War II FPS games with Medal Of Honour , Resident Evil (and countless other Horror copies) , the likes of GTA and open world games, Tenchu and Stealth gaming , or how GT changed racing for ever and was pretty devastating to SEGA who were the seen as most as the driving kings before hand) .

The PS was like the Mega Drive before it, the console that did so much to establishing genre's on consoles  and a countless supply of different games.

 I can't think of many consoles that had a Cooking game in it (like Ore No Ryouri ) or a Model Helicopter game on it like R/C Stunt Copter, or anything like Vib ribbon, or that consoles have games like Parappa The Rapper (before it was a smash) , Incredible Crisis and GOD knows how many more original titles.

Quote
Again you were patronising me pure and simple

No I was simply saying how nice it was that you did a post with no insults, no digs, just simply stating what you felt on the consoles in question. And to try and make out I hate or don't value the DC is simply totally incorrect

Here are my DC games, Please lets not try and make out I don't like, or did support the format
[youtube:39tpg964]X0PezUb1_WI[/youtube:39tpg964]



Quote
Bollocks mate. Plain and simple

But it is  true . Virtual Fighter RPG talk did not start until talk of the DC was very well established and next to no-one knew it started life as a Saturn title, until Shenmue II came out, with that lovely little Easter Egg.

Simple fact is games like Too Human, Omikron started life as PS titles
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure

Offline CrazyT

  • *
  • Posts: 2789
  • Total Meseta: 100
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2010, 11:31:32 am »
Just wanted to say that I enjoyed watching your vid Team Andromeda. Great stuff
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Centrale

  • *
  • Posts: 1062
  • Total Meseta: 61
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2010, 01:31:14 pm »
TA:  Now you need some nice mahogany shelves with recessed lighting to house your collection.  Also, hidden speakers that quietly play great Sega themes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #97 on: October 02, 2010, 05:32:39 am »
I keep all my SEGA cases and boxes in safe keeping in the spare room, out of the way.Here's the rest of the SEGA stuff

[youtube:u151gqtc]6OVsyHuHnEc[/youtube:u151gqtc]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2010, 07:17:50 am »
Quote
I Just  want to know is the name of this game and the system it was on . I just hope you're not on about some SEGA Toy game or some cheap electronic Hand-held game.
Many genre's and many games own their origins to the USA and The West, the place that gave birth to Video games and Arcades .
Lemme see before you said this game didn't exist and no you've changed your mind? How original. Here's a clue kid bone up on your sega history before you challenge me again. It s for you to find out.
And dude stop patronising me. Again there's copying and theres progressing. All the games you keep mentioning that you accuse sega of copying aren't copys they're just progressions. I'm getting FED up explaining this simple fact to you. Now you can keep trying to diminish the DC leagcy all you want but luckly the world doesn't revolve around you. And its a joke you mentioning the west when you can't even accept sega japan wasn't designing games until the early eighties and that there's a difference between japanese and western game design methods. You really are a joke.

Quote
SEGA is just as guilty as most for coping , like it did with SEGA GT, Columns, Streets Of Rage, Space Channel 5  ECT. Its not knocking SEGA since every corp as copied it other games and idea's over the years, and I mean ever Corp

Only two of those games are straight copys and three of them aren't DC originals. try again.


Quote
The DC had games that impacted on other game genres or kicked started it more than the PS ever did. And that's an acheivement considering the DC had a much shorter lifespan.

Quote
More of the truth is that the PS gave birth or did more to establish genre's than the DC . Again , that's not knocing the DC, just saying that thanks to the PS  insane popularity and support,  that it  meant a wide and varied almost limitless support of games , and the establishing on genre's that are bog standard on the consoles today.

Be that World War II FPS games with Medal Of Honour , Resident Evil (and countless other Horror copies) , the likes of GTA and open world games, Tenchu and Stealth gaming , or how GT changed racing for ever and was pretty devastating to SEGA who were the seen as most as the driving kings before hand) .

The PS was like the Mega Drive before it, the console that did so much to establishing genre's on consoles  and a countless supply of different games.

Utter rubbish RE was a MP game so i really don't know how you can come to that conclusion and FPS started life on the PCs,try again.



Quote
Again you were patronising me pure and simple

Quote
No I was simply saying how nice it was that you did a post with no insults, no digs, just simply stating what you felt on the consoles in question. And to try and make out I hate or don't value the DC is simply totally incorrect
Look i don't need you to try and patronise me or painting me into something that i'm not. Oh i can't make an opinion without an insult. REALLY? Let's look at most of the posts you did in this topic and see how many arguments you got into with three different people? That says more about you than it does about me. TA you are IMHO a liar in many of the discussions that i've seen you have with either me or other people. I really don't care for your opinion anymore so you can play the good guy act all you want. Just not interested.

And having a game collection doesn't mean anything. I have lots of sega stuff that i don't particularly like but as a collector i have them for completions sake.



Quote
Bollocks mate. Plain and simple

Quote
But it is  true . Virtual Fighter RPG talk did not start until talk of the DC was very well established and next to no-one knew it started life as a Saturn title, until Shenmue II came out, with that lovely little Easter Egg.

Simple fact is games like Too Human, Omikron started life as PS titles
if someone like you has managed to not only hear about supposedly top secret games in japan but manages to seen them apparently as you hinted then really don't act like SHENMUE was totally top secret back in the nineties. especially among other companies so it wasn't hard to try and rip off and that definatly was the case with JSR. Anyway I'm done with you trolling my topic but i'm sure you like the insecure pap that you are need to get the last word in so fire away.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #99 on: October 02, 2010, 08:57:01 am »
Quote
Lemme see before you said this game didn't exist and no you've changed your mind

No I simple want to know the game that beat NCl to it on a console or Hand held system.

Quote
All the games you keep mentioning that you accuse sega of copying aren't copys

Every company has copied each other ideas for games over the Years, to make out otherwise is completely silly, and its not just in the Home that SEGA has copied, its in the Arcades too, Wave Runner was not the 1st Jet Ski games and so on

Quote
And its a joke you mentioning the west when you can't even accept sega japan wasn't designing games until the early eighties

SEGA Japan were designing games in the 70's I think you find (there's a huge clue in Die Hard Arcade for starters) , but what's that got to do with the West inventing Video games and the Arcades I do not know.

The west gave birth to most of the Gene's we have played over the years, be they sports games, platform games, RPG's , Racers ECT. That's not knocking the DC at all, its a simple matter of fact, becasue they invented Video games and did many of Genre's 1st  on consoles like Atari, CBS or the Intelvision

Quote
Only two of those games are straight copys and three of them aren't DC originals.

?. It shows SEGA copies, like every other corp
 How about you make a lost of DC games that were truly unique and world 1st. There isn't that many on the DC at all imo .

Quote
RE was a MP game so i really don't know how you can come to that conclusion and FPS started life on the PCs,try again

What is a MP game ?, is its a Multi Player game, that wasn't RE at all

Resident Evil established that style of gaming on the consoels, but again it was far from the 1st, as Alone in The Dark  (yes the West and French again) beating the Japanese to it.

Quote
FPS started life on the PCs,try again

Its called establishing a genre on consoles , not true world 1st  :evil: . Before Medal Of Honour on the PS, War based FPS weren't popluar  at all on the consoles, that all changed with MOH.

Quote
Oh i can't make an opinion without an insult. REALLY?

You can, and should do it move often

Quote
And having a game collection doesn't mean anything.

Sign
I'm just trying to make you see, that I supported and backed the DC with a hell of lot of money out of my own back pocket . I don't need to be told by the likes of YOU...I didn't like or rate the DC, or I am not a SEGA Fan  

The mere fact I loved the DC and still am a SEGA fan are the reason I still keep all the boxes and games, just like with the Saturn, Mega CD and all the main SEGA consoles. While my other old stuff and consoles have long been sold  

Quote
if someone like you has managed to not only hear about supposedly top secret games in japan but manages to seen them apparently as you hinted then really don't act like SHENMUE was totally top secret back in the nineties

Saturn Shenmue was totally top Secret and none of the Mag's reported the fact through 1994-1997 while it was in Saturn development no magazine at all, not one (and this was at a time before the Internet really took off) . 1998 we started to see the talk of Virtual Fighter RPG and talk of a engine doing over 1.5 million polygons by Yu Suzuki.
In fact even after Shenmue came out, not many knew it started life has a Saturn title, much less that so much of the Shenmue story  was developed on the Saturn (right up to Shenmue II)


The QTE whiles most took the piss out of them, they have been copied by countless games these days.  But a  true Open 3D world started on the PC at the end of the day, with the likes of Elder Scrolls II  



Quote
and rip off and that definatly was the case with JSR

The likes of Fear Effect started development  when Smilebit were developing Sega Rally II on the DC. So even if the Fear Effect team did have some sort of inside  SEGA knowledge at the time, They wouldn't be getting the Cel shading look idea from SEGA or Smilebit . but ideas for a Rally game or a Online RTS game
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #100 on: October 06, 2010, 12:34:24 am »
And there the rest of my Saturn stuff

[youtube:2de72i0o]j27vywSNun0[/youtube:2de72i0o]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure