SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Mengels7 on February 06, 2014, 01:58:58 pm
-
Figured I'd kick this one off with a big ol' WTF. Your thoughts everyone?
-
Though Knuckles' design pains me, I'm digging everyone else. I don't know WHAT to make of the game, though I'm happy to see other characters playable again. Kinda looks like a throwback to Sonic Adventure.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/jYFy5Bb.jpg) (http://imgur.com/jYFy5Bb)
-
What's with the bandages?
Also, there's a game too?
-
I don't know about the game but the show however!
http://youtu.be/3dm-AFKUmFw
-
What's with the bandages?
Also, there's a game too?
Good god, they're all covered in bandages. I don't get it either.
-
SEGA has stated that Sonic Boom is a branch of the Sonic universe (much like the Archie Comics) and is not replacing the usual Sonic Team modern Sonic stuff.
-
I guess I wanted these new designs for the chacacthers.
At least Knuckles should change to this steroids version definetly.
-
If sonic 4 never happened, I would have probably been pissed today.
But not looking at things as a classic fanboy, the footage shows promise, but we'll see.
-
SEGA has stated that Sonic Boom is a branch of the Sonic universe (much like the Archie Comics) and is not replacing the usual Sonic Team modern Sonic stuff.
Oh good, wouldn't want to undo all their great work of the last decade... *rolls eyes so hard they end up in the next room*
So this is a developer other than Sonic Team?
Can't find any games by Big Red Button entertainment, is this their first title? Looks like it's made up from ex-Naughty Dog devs, which isn't a bad sign at all. Since it's not Sonic Team, I'm actually more positive this might turn out alright.
I still think the character designs are weird. Not necessarily bad, but I wonder why they would change Sonic's SHOES of all things to be covered in bandages. I mean, it's probably his most iconic feature!
-
I think tails is the least offensive of them all, actually more appealing?
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/12336043403_8e8e27c10b.jpg)
-
If you watch this, the first game on the reel (Big Red Button game) Is probably Sonic Boom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8T3pe9G4Pc#t=74
-
Sonic's got a real Neanderthal forehead there...
-
So I read that there is no plans to release the game in Japan. I can already see where this is going...
in the future we will be begging SEGA West to localize Japanese Sonic. Get ready, Segalization!
-
So this is an attempt to Westernise the franchise for us Westerners.
Indeed the problem with the games has been how Japanese Sonic is! What with those giant kaijus blowing stuff up every two minutes, idolmasters singing during the opening and closing credits and those zanny crossdressing boost races you get, that's the cause of the poor sales! Not the fact the series has had almost a decade of mixed to poor games followed by half a decade of decent attempts!
Next up Virtua Fighter, Akira Yuki is too Japanese, to break into the West they will have to name him Andrew York, a hardened NYPD detective who saw his family murdered and enters the World Fighter Tournament to find their killer
-
I'm really glad that these designs wont be in the main games. I love the good ol' Adventure era designs. :afroman:
With that said, I kinda think the series really needs something like this. They've been pulling the nostalgia card for so long ("Hey guys, there's Sonic 1 badniks in this game!!!") that it has become stale and boring. Sonic Boom is going in the complete opposite direction of that, so it's actually rather refreshing and interesting. Frankly SEGA had a lot of balls to do this which I kind of respect.
It's like in the old days when there was SatAM and the comics going alongside the games. You had the "westernized" Sonic (dabatable, because Sonic's original Japanese design was very westernized anyway) adding more substance. But it is in no way a threat to the main Sonic canon and games.
Nothing wrong with a side canon bringing in more fans.
-
So this is an attempt to Westernise the franchise for us Westerners.
Indeed the problem with the games has been how Japanese Sonic is! What with those giant kaijus blowing stuff up every two minutes, idolmasters singing during the opening and closing credits and those zanny crossdressing boost races you get, that's the cause of the poor sales! Not the fact the series has had almost a decade of mixed to poor games followed by half a decade of decent attempts!
Next up Virtua Fighter, Akira Yuki is too Japanese, to break into the West they will have to name him Andrew York, a hardened NYPD detective who saw his family murdered and enters the World Fighter Tournament to find their killer
I haven't been following this closely, but I thought it was just an opportunity to do something new and fun with the franchise rather than a targeted attack on Western markets specifically. I didn't think it was all that west-pandering, just something different. Which I personally like, having new interpretations that don't meddle with the ongoing franchise is always good IMO.
More importantly I want Andrew York to be a new character in VF6. His family was murdered by the J6 Syndicate and he's got a mad crush on Vanessa Lewis. You can get a costume that makes him look a lot like the Punisher, but not so much that you can get a lawsuit.
-
I'm really glad that these designs wont be in the main games. I love the good ol' Adventure era designs. :afroman:
I'm not. I was feeling pretty good about this up until the point where they announced modern Sonic was sticking around. I want Sonic Team to stop making Sonic games. I'm tired of Sonic. I have reached the point where I'm actually rooting against the franchise.
-
I'm not. I was feeling pretty good about this up until the point where they announced modern Sonic was sticking around. I want Sonic Team to stop making Sonic games. I'm tired of Sonic. I have reached the point where I'm actually rooting against the franchise.
In '05-'08 I'd get that, but I thought the games have been a lot of fun since Colors. I mean, sure Sonic Team has done their share of non-Sonic titles, but Sonic is pretty much their thing. I'd hate to root against the franchise and wish failure on it.
-
In '05-'08 I'd get that, but I thought the games have been a lot of fun since Colors. I mean, sure Sonic Team has done their share of non-Sonic titles, but Sonic is pretty much their thing. I'd hate to root against the franchise and wish failure on it.
They've made some strides in the right direction as of late, but the franchise still reeks of mediocrity and wasted potential. Now they're redoubling their efforts to pump out even more Sonic. Meanwhile, scores of wonderful IPs from Sega's past continue to lie dormant. It's infuriating...
-
I think this game looks like it'll be an inspired take on the Sonic series, and I'm interested in seeing where it goes.
SonicTeam's caught too much in their traditions, this is honestly looking like I'd hoped Lost World would have been; a totally fresh start and something that feels like a true action/adventure game.
-
I think this game looks like it'll be an inspired take on the Sonic series, and I'm interested in seeing where it goes.
SonicTeam's caught too much in their traditions, this is honestly looking like I'd hoped Lost World would have been; a totally fresh start and something that feels like a true action/adventure game.
I agree with you but I wish the product wasn't so well. . . ugly.
-
Honest opinion? I'm actually excited about this project. No Bull. I'm still trying to take in the new visual style on these characters (Knuckles for whatever reason, is a bulky as Werehog Sonic from Unleashed and why does Sonic and his crew need neck scarfes and kung fu bandages on their arms?).
Shame that this game is gonna get released on a system that's pretty much dead at this point, but I guess this will be the last Sonic game under the exclusive Nintendo deal.
But this TV show, I'm very curious about it. It's such an interesting direction that they decided to take...
-
^I'm also somewhat excited for this game. I haven't had faith in Sonic Team for a long time, so seeing another developer try something completely new with the character is a big deal for me.
Even Sonic Colours I thought was mediocre, and I didn't really get into Generations either (although that looked better than Unleashed, I still thought a lot of the decisions for that game were terrible).
I'll see how it plays out I guess, hopefully it's a fun platformer adventurer. I do like the concept art for the levels.
-
After sleeping on it (in my Sonic bed, complete with Sonic Underground plushies, a Sonic SatAM comforter, and a body pillow of Wes Weasely) I'm optimistic and a bit excited for Sonic Boom.
You all probably know by now that I'm a fan of Sonic Team's recent direction with the franchise. However I haven't been a fan of the cries from some fans for a return to the Sonic Adventure formula, or the Westernization and Kidification of the latest games. Sonic isn't just for kids, its for everybody, so while I did enjoy games like Colors, Generations and Lost World, I guess I'm iffy on the "kiddie" cutscenes and simplistic stories.
My hope is that Sonic Boom is the answer to all this. I'd prefer that Sonic Team no longer have to appeal to younger players so much with jokey cutscenes, and the gameplay elements that detracts from the Sonic formula (melee combat, Sonic Adventure open worlds). Perhaps with Sonic Boom, SEGA West can focus these things toward their own TV/game brand rather than pushing Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan to address these needs.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is a prime example of a franchise that can exist with more than one vision. TMNT has the recent XBLA game, the IDW comics, the Nickelodeon series, the upcoming live action movie, the merchandise depicting the '87 Turtles. If the Ninja Turtles can handle five versions at once, I think Sonic will be fine with the Sonic Team games, the SEGA West TV series, and the Archie comics. At the very least all three are not as different as they were in 1999 when we had Sonic Adventure, Sonic Underground, and Archie Sonic as it was then. We have Sonic and friends against Eggman. No Royal siblings or planet Mobius.
-
After sleeping on it (in my Sonic bed, complete with Sonic Underground plushies, a Sonic SatAM comforter, and a body pillow of Wes Weasely) I'm optimistic and a bit excited for Sonic Boom.
You all probably know by now that I'm a fan of Sonic Team's recent direction with the franchise. However I haven't been a fan of the cries from some fans for a return to the Sonic Adventure formula, or the Westernization and Kidification of the latest games. Sonic isn't just for kids, its for everybody, so while I did enjoy games like Colors, Generations and Lost World, I guess I'm iffy on the "kiddie" cutscenes and simplistic stories.
My hope is that Sonic Boom is the answer to all this. I'd prefer that Sonic Team no longer have to appeal to younger players so much with jokey cutscenes, and the gameplay elements that detracts from the Sonic formula (melee combat, Sonic Adventure open worlds). Perhaps with Sonic Boom, SEGA West can focus these things toward their own TV/game brand rather than pushing Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan to address these needs.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is a prime example of a franchise that can exist with more than one vision. TMNT has the recent XBLA game, the IDW comics, the Nickelodeon series, the upcoming live action movie, the merchandise depicting the '87 Turtles. If the Ninja Turtles can handle five versions at once, I think Sonic will be fine with the Sonic Team games, the SEGA West TV series, and the Archie comics. At the very least all three are not as different as they were in 1999 when we had Sonic Adventure, Sonic Underground, and Archie Sonic as it was then. We have Sonic and friends against Eggman. No Royal siblings or planet Mobius.
Appealing to all ages is definitely something Sony platform game devs are good at. I know I may sound a bit negative about this game yesterday, but I'm slowly warming up to the character designs, and the way it looks.
Im really pleased that SEGA doesn't think the future direction for Sonic is a Mario like direction. SO PLEASED about that. Lost World was seriously getting me worried. I'm going to go into this game with an open mind because it sounds like it has the potential to be really good and give us the kind of game Sonic Team has been needing to give us for a while now.
-
Has this been posted here or not? Some info from Bob Rafei:
http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=221976 (http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=221976)
“The objective was to make the characters instantly recognisable as being from Sonic Boom. We explored various costume options and quickly found the limits of what works and what doesn’t. Since we wanted to push the characterisation of Sonic and friends to fit our narrative, I thought it more appropriate to make them a touch older by adjusting their head, hand and feet proportions. The athletic tape hints at a team that is ready for any action – it is about practicality rather than vanity. Given they have very clean graphic lines, it was important not to clutter their silhouettes, so any little addition had to be carefully considered. They are designed for an epic action adventure.”
We constantly had to remind ourselves not to fall into the trap of creating babysitting, escort or protection style scenarios where one player is gated by the other simply for the sake of co-op. What we don’t want is forced co-op play resulting in excessive interruption to gameplay momentum. Through extensive play-testing we settled on the right balance of opportunistic moments in combat and co-op environmental puzzles placed at key moments that are meaningful to the player.
Sonic 2 had a ‘team’ vibe between Sonic and Tails and we wanted to recapture that plus kick things up a notch by adding Amy and Knuckles to the equation. In Sonic Adventure, the game’s structure offered exploration and discovery that opened up more as the player progressed. We believe this is a great approach and modelled Sonic Boom after it. We also love what Sonic Team did with Sonic Generations, giving the player 2D and 3D variations of the same level. Our take was to integrate 2D and 3D seamlessly within the level in a way that made sense, keeping things fresh for the player.
Game and TV animation are different animals so we looked for opportunities to cross-pollinate ideas. Characters that were developed for the game crossed over to the show and vice versa. Guidelines we developed with Sonic team for bosses, as example, were carried over to the show in effort to have consistency.
The GamePad display has given us a great solution for local co-op play. We tried different solutions for our co-op camera, including single split-screen display, but ultimately this wasn’t able to service our game vision. The GamePad also has a look-around mode where the player can scan the environment looking for clues and hints to secrets in the game. As for 3DS, there are some crossover plans between it and the Wii U involving special unlocks for Sonic fans who have both versions."
-
I am distrustful of the rationale going into this, much as it seems benign and sensible. Sonic was Western enough to be one of Sega West's initial "four pillars" a couple of years ago. I do think it's worth noting that this is unprecedented - while we've had Western Sonic cartoons and Sonic games not totally developed inside Japan, this is the first to test the waters for a completely alternative interpretation of the same Sonic universe. Sonic Boom represents a new media push with figures and such, and if successful, it might be a consistent part of Sonic moving forward. It's not like Mega Man X and the classic Mega Man.
If the question is upping Sonic's sales performance...unless a game is absolutely killer then the Wii U is going to be a problem. Right now it seems like the focus is going to be the cartoon.
This Polygon article on Sonic Boom (http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/6/5387184/why-sega-handed-sonic-over-to-western-studios-and-gave-him-a-scarf) is worth checking out, for those who haven't seen it yet. It touches on inspiration for Sonic's new design, the Sonic Boom game and the Enerbeam, and Amy. The Western inspiration is a little more spelled out.
I'll probably check out the cartoon for a bit. The game....=\ While I never played Lost World, visually it looked great. This one, not as much. And the apparent shift towards combat and exploration I'm not so sure about. My guess is you've got to have HUGE levels to reconcile the GOTTA GO FAST that's built into Sonic's DNA and the exploration aspect. Yes, Ratchet and Clank was fun, but Ratchet and Clank is also different.
Has this been posted here or not? Some info from Bob Rafei:
http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=221976 (http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=221976)
Hmm. Notes:
--the characters are older, and so their body proportions are adjusted. This explains Sonic's legs.
--the tape hints at "someone ready for action"...=P I don't see how its purpose isn't fashion
--2D and 3D integration within the same level. I'm going to be curious to see how that pans out.
--new characters. New bosses at least, but possibly new friends.
-
The way I see it is they can either bring back sonic to popularity or kill him off even more. Honestly after more analysis it seems like the IP is in good hands.
I had a discussion with someone recently and he told me that the sonic we know just isn't appealing anymore. I think Iizuka is right about sonic while having had benefited a lot of his popularity in the west, the characters seem very Japanese oriented. I wouldn't be surprised most of sonic's popularity back in the days came because of the western tv shows and games. The games benefitted because despite them not being exactly like the shows (apart from sonic spinball), they were open to interpretation. So after great show + quality games, people were pretty much sold?
Anyway that's just speculation anyway. If they succeed in having a good show and good game side by side, then SEGA may be able to revive the franchise.
I like that the game has a sandbox design akin to sonic adventure. Still the model designs are pretty bad but ehh, I don't mind anymore
-
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/448718/sega-reined-in-sonic-boom-character-designs-claims-dev/ (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/448718/sega-reined-in-sonic-boom-character-designs-claims-dev/)
interesting! not a long read. may wreck your browser though.
-
Sega is not planning to release this game in the japanese market (neither the cartoon series)
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/02/sega_has_no_plans_to_release_sonic_boom_in_japan_sonic_team_will_continue_to_work_on_the_franchise
we'll, they will lose the opportunity to sell 10K units of the game haha
-
@Barry
Transformers and Ninja Turtles are properties that have managed to stick around for quite some time now, because they are somewhat easy to recycle with every new iteration. Also memorable toons from the 80's will always stick around, because they are marketable.
Sonic, on the other hand, was a product from the 90's and Lord knows anything barely anything from that decade is still around, but even more difficult as I've commented a few times before, there was never any Sonic cannon, no proper theology, he was always an blank slate to whatever Sega wanted to do with it, so discussions as to why Sonic should be X, Y or Z never really made much sense. I hope SEGA can pull a Ninja Turtles with Sonic.
Now this TV show and it's companion video game, I see some potential in here. At first glance, my most primordial fear while unconfirmed still lingers, you see, I never liked Sonic SATAM, nor Underground and to some degree, Sonic X because they weren't completely Sonic-related.
Sonic SATAM: Essentially Princess Sally's b***.
Sonic Underground: Stuck with band singing terrible rock music
Sonic X: Chris Thorndyke, the less said about him, the better.
Sonic Boom seems to be more Sonic-centric, which is a good thing... I hope.
-
I haven't been following this closely, but I thought it was just an opportunity to do something new and fun with the franchise rather than a targeted attack on Western markets specifically. I didn't think it was all that west-pandering, just something different. Which I personally like, having new interpretations that don't meddle with the ongoing franchise is always good IMO.
Nah, SEGA or rather Iizuka, said that this version of Sonic is made specfically for Western audience. Which to me is probably one of the strangest (Or dumbest depending how critical I'm feeling) things I've read. Next up, making Total War even more Western by making everyone lanky and making it a buddy flick.
More importantly I want Andrew York to be a new character in VF6. His family was murdered by the J6 Syndicate and he's got a mad crush on Vanessa Lewis. You can get a costume that makes him look a lot like the Punisher, but not so much that you can get a lawsuit.
Also Vanessa has a costume that makes her look like Storm, but SEGA American can use their ties in showbiz to get Halle Barry as paid $60 DLC and rename the game as Halle Barry and Allstars Fighters Transformed.
The way I see it is they can either bring back sonic to popularity or kill him off even more. Honestly after more analysis it seems like the IP is in good hands.
I had a discussion with someone recently and he told me that the sonic we know just isn't appealing anymore. I think Iizuka is right about sonic while having had benefited a lot of his popularity in the west, the characters seem very Japanese oriented. I wouldn't be surprised most of sonic's popularity back in the days came because of the western tv shows and games. The games benefitted because despite them not being exactly like the shows (like sonic spinball), they were open to interpretation. So after great show + quality games, people were pretty much sold?
I have to disagree with you on a number of things, firstly why do you think the Sonic we know isn't as appealing anymore? I don't really see much evidence to support that and it's more likely the case I outlined, that Sonic has been mediocre too long to expect an explosion return after a few good to decent games.
Secondly what exactly is suppose to be Japanese about Sonic? The series has ALWAYS sold minor numbers in Japan despite SEGA's continued insistent to push the titles over there. Just because Sonic is a Japanese produced IP does not mean it's a very Japanese like title, the same with stuff like say Trigun, which is influenced by American comic books whilst Sonic by American animation.
The final point would make sense if we were talking about Sonic X, which no doubt helped make Sonic Heroes the best selling platformer of it's generation. But Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and SATAM came out AFTER the two most successful Sonic titles of the generation, Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Infact sales declined dramatically by the time Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was released, whilst the first two Sonic titles enjoyed sales of 4 million+, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Knuckles were both above 2 million in sales. So the theory that the shows helped boost the popularity of the brand is not entirely true.
That being said I would have been confident of Sonic Boom if it was a multiplatform title, however it being stuck on the Wii U will spell doom for the console version, however the handheld version could be quite the seller.
-
I've been saying that the designs make them look more "adventurous", but it seems to clash with the fact that the tv show is supposed to be a comedy. The teaser was action packed, but we've got two episode plots revealed and one involves Eggman failing to get into "Lair Monthly" and taking Sonic to court over it, and another involves Sonic firing Tails as his sidekick and Eggman trying to get his position.
-
(http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2014/02/07/sonic-boom-video-game-03-sonic1391691295jpg-1e07e1_610w.jpg)
Green Hill Zone?
I dunno, I'm psyched for this game, lol.
-
(http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2014/02/07/sonic-boom-video-game-03-sonic1391691295jpg-1e07e1_610w.jpg)
Green Hill Zone?
I dunno, I'm psyched for this game, lol.
Sonic looks so weird in that pic. Probably just the perspective it's in, but yeah. It looks so proportionally off.
-
Sonic looks so weird in that pic. Probably just the perspective it's in, but yeah. It looks so proportionally off.
Yeah, that model looks simply horrifying.
-
Well yeah some of the character designs look fairly awful, but I'm eager to play the game.
-
Looking at that lush scenery makes me wonder what the game's frame rate is gonna be....
-
Looking at that lush scenery makes me wonder what the game's frame rate is gonna be....
30 FPS most likely. Maybe sub 30 FPS at times. Cry Engine has always been known for it's impressive foilage, Crysis 3 basically looks the same way... and Crysis 2.. and Crysis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3ItDjxLBo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3ItDjxLBo)
I personally find it a really odd choice of engine to use for a Sonic game, but it is what it is. Western devs love their western engines. At least it's not Unreal 3(i swear that engine gives everything a brown tint)
-
I have to disagree with you on a number of things, firstly why do you think the Sonic we know isn't as appealing anymore? I don't really see much evidence to support that and it's more likely the case I outlined, that Sonic has been mediocre too long to expect an explosion return after a few good to decent games.
Hey I wasn't claiming anything. Thought it was an interesting thought shared by a friend.
Secondly what exactly is suppose to be Japanese about Sonic? The series has ALWAYS sold minor numbers in Japan despite SEGA's continued insistent to push the titles over there. Just because Sonic is a Japanese produced IP does not mean it's a very Japanese like title, the same with stuff like say Trigun, which is influenced by American comic books whilst Sonic by American animation.
The final point would make sense if we were talking about Sonic X, which no doubt helped make Sonic Heroes the best selling platformer of it's generation. But Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and SATAM came out AFTER the two most successful Sonic titles of the generation, Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Infact sales declined dramatically by the time Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was released, whilst the first two Sonic titles enjoyed sales of 4 million+, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Knuckles were both above 2 million in sales. So the theory that the shows helped boost the popularity of the brand is not entirely true.
That being said I would have been confident of Sonic Boom if it was a multiplatform title, however it being stuck on the Wii U will spell doom for the console version, however the handheld version could be quite the seller.
But him being japanese produced is very striking imo Since the day he started talking in sonic adventure. But sales in the west haven't been the issue indeed. Maybe it's an experiment?
Anyway i'm not an expert. Most was just speculation. All in all it's another game I can look forward to this year. Maybe you should get a wii u too now and enjoy the doom and gloom ride with us?:p
-
30 FPS most likely. Maybe sub 30 FPS at times. Cry Engine has always been known for it's impressive foilage, Crysis 3 basically looks the same way... and Crysis 2.. and Crysis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3ItDjxLBo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3ItDjxLBo)
I personally find it a really odd choice of engine to use for a Sonic game, but it is what it is. Western devs love their western engines. At least it's not Unreal 3(i swear that engine gives everything a brown tint)
If the game is going to have a similar framerate to Crysis 3 on consoles, then expect it to run below 30fps most of the time. Of course, that really depends on how heavily they use effects and stuff. It doesn't seem like Sonic Boom will be as heavy on the special effects as Crysis 3 is, so hopefully it has a solid 30fps framerate at least. (Of course, 60fps would be ideal)
-
Hey I wasn't claiming anything. Thought it was an interesting thought shared by a friend.
Was just wondering why, I just don't see much evidence supporting it.
But him being japanese produced is very striking imo Since the day he started talking in sonic adventure. But sales in the west haven't been the issue indeed. Maybe it's an experiment?
Like I said, it could be produced in Japan but does not mean its a very Japanese product. Compare say, the recent Godzilla film (The 2014 one, not the abomination from 1998), despite being produced by Americans it still feels very Japanese, whilst Sonic or Trigun which are produced by Japanese creators just does not mean its a very Japanese product.
Anyway i'm not an expert. Most was just speculation. All in all it's another game I can look forward to this year. Maybe you should get a wii u too now and enjoy the doom and gloom ride with us?:p
To be honest I'm not fond with the Wii U or it's hardware so I'll wait it out until we get a Sonic Boom 2 as a multiplatform title! :p
-
Aki-at will be too busy doing manly things in 2014 to waste time with the Wii u:
(http://abload.de/img/aaa6mo3k.gif)
If the game is going to have a similar framerate to Crysis 3 on consoles, then expect it to run below 30fps most of the time. Of course, that really depends on how heavily they use effects and stuff. It doesn't seem like Sonic Boom will be as heavy on the special effects as Crysis 3 is, so hopefully it has a solid 30fps framerate at least. (Of course, 60fps would be ideal)
Yeah, maybe. The Sonic game is still pretty detailed, though. I personally don't think we will see it go above 30 FPS.
-
Saw this flying on twitter, not only do I like the character designs significantly more, I think I prefer them over the mainline versions too.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/ofvat3.jpg)
Bandages on shoes is still stupid though.
-
^I agree. but it seems like the CGI models exagurate the concept arts even more. They look bad in the concept art, but rediculous in the cgi models.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/12336043403_8e8e27c10b.jpg)
vs
(http://assets.vg247.com/current//2014/02/sonic-boom22.jpg)
I think if there's one thing that could be beneficial about a western team being behind this, is we can actually reach them with feedback. Have been seeing a lot of great communication between sumo digital and the fans. Same with Sony's devteams>fans.
Everything has probably been set in stone already for the "show" so very unlikely they will tune them up soon.
Was just wondering why, I just don't see much evidence supporting it.
Maybe the long term appeal is weakening. I don't know honestly. Glad we still have the mainline stuff beside this in contrast to how classic sonic was replaced.
-
I honestly think the redesigns for the sub-universe is supposed to be aimed at the 10-14 age demographic, as I instantly thought of Final Fantasy VII characters with the get up.
Knuckles = Barret, Sonic = KH Cloud, Tails = Cid and Amy = Aerith.
Not sure if that would appeal to the west these days as the whole belts, bandages and overtones on clothing was unpopular for 10 years now.
Either way, hoping the game is good.
-
Hey
Do you guys think all this (negative) buzz around this new 'sonic' is actually good for the brand/series?
I mean, he did not get all this attention since the werehog thing
-
Nah, SEGA or rather Iizuka, said that this version of Sonic is made specfically for Western audience. Which to me is probably one of the strangest (Or dumbest depending how critical I'm feeling) things I've read. Next up, making Total War even more Western by making everyone lanky and making it a buddy flick.
That is really weird. Well regardless of the intention, I do like the result, a spin off game that doesn't affect the main series and let's new talent make something different. I like this as much as I like seeing different interpretations of characters in comic spinoffs and the like.
If it works, awesome something familiar yet new to enjoy. If it doesn't, it doesn't affect the main series anyway so it's easily ignored.
Hey
Do you guys think all this (negative) buzz around this new 'sonic' is actually good for the brand/series?
I mean, he did not get all this attention since the werehog thing
I've seen mostly positive reception?
-
I think all of this is great.
The show seems great for kids (at least on par with the best cartoon shit out there) and the game will probably be a lot of fun coming from the ex-Naughty Dog guys.
As for the redesigns, it's some Sonic meets Uncharted mess, but it's alright.
Tails actually looks BETTER, Sonic is okay, Amy doesn't look like a cheap whore anymore.. Too bad Knuckles skipped legday, but he looks like a pretty beast of a character (unlike the recent LOL KNUX R DUMB MUH EMERDEGUHLS trend in Sonic games)
In b4 this game turns out to be better than main Sonic Team games.
-
Bandages on shoes is still stupid though.
(http://i.imgur.com/PfnclTK.jpg)
It actually makes sense.
-
Yeah, something to keep in mind is that those aren't bandages. It's sport tape. Here's an article I found on it, had a few pictures.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/10/31/spatting-ankle-tape-nike-adidas-under-armour/3331463/
-
Weird, I've never seen tape over shoes/clothing before. Having said that, I still think it's silly to cover Sonic's most iconic and recognisable feature (or one of at least).
I like the tape/bandages around Knuckle's fists though, reminds me of a boxer/brawler.
-
Weird, I've never seen tape over shoes/clothing before. Having said that, I still think it's silly to cover Sonic's most iconic and recognisable feature (or one of at least).
But they don't. The sports tape is now the white stripe over his shoes.
-
^I never thought of it like that, stupid me. I didn't even make the link, I'm so used to the well defined two stripes. Now I actually like it.
-
I'm cautiously optimistic about this title. I really love Naughty Dog's game design sensibilities so I hope the quality of the game more than makes up for some aesthetic jankiness. Interestingly enough, I happen to know one of the artists working on the game in Santa Monica. I ran into him at a christmas party last year where he spilled the beans about the project and the talent behind it.
He had a number of great insights as to what it's like working on a big IP like Sonic. Apparently Iizuka and Sonic Team are being VERY hands on with the development, for better or for worse.
-
I'm cautiously optimistic about this title. I really love Naughty Dog's game design sensibilities so I hope the quality of the game more than makes up for some aesthetic jankiness. Interestingly enough, I happen to know one of the artists working on the game in Santa Monica. I ran into him at a christmas party last year where he spilled the beans about the project and the talent behind it.
He had a number of great insights as to what it's like working on a big IP like Sonic. Apparently Iizuka and Sonic Team are being VERY hands on with the development, for better or for worse.
It's not really much of a surprise that Sonic Team has big involvement with the game. They get the final say in everything regarding Sonic. A while back S0L posted on the SEGA Forums back when the rating for ASR Transformed was revealed that it had the E10 rating because Sonic Team demanded one of their characters had a phrase with the word "damn" in it (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=32576&) that bumped up the rating. So yes, our one and only Takashi Iizuka is involved as ever, which I know some people don't want to hear. heh
I'm also slowly warming up to it more and more. It's just such a weird change for Sonic. I'm not against it, was confused by it. I think it has potential to be a really good game, but it's hard to tell with the trailers SEGA releases.
-
Apparently Iizuka and Sonic Team are being VERY hands on with the development, for better or for worse.
It's for worse.
-
I'm cautiously optimistic about this title. I really love Naughty Dog's game design sensibilities so I hope the quality of the game more than makes up for some aesthetic jankiness. Interestingly enough, I happen to know one of the artists working on the game in Santa Monica. I ran into him at a christmas party last year where he spilled the beans about the project and the talent behind it.
He had a number of great insights as to what it's like working on a big IP like Sonic. Apparently Iizuka and Sonic Team are being VERY hands on with the development, for better or for worse.
I wish Sonic Team focused on another project rather than just focus on Sonic all the time. Do they really not want to make a Ristar Sequel or something? :\ Sounds like they're not doing much themselves by overseeing this....
-
I wish Sonic Team focused on another project rather than just focus on Sonic all the time. Do they really not want to make a Ristar Sequel or something? :\ Sounds like they're not doing much themselves by overseeing this....
Well, by all reports they are currently developing another mainline Sonic entry for the ps4/one/wiiu. I would assume they're not at home twiddling their thumbs.
And no, I don't think that anyone wants to make another Rister, sad as it sounds. They can't even afford a new Virtual On these days. The market for these lesser known IPs just isn't there.
-
When they say Sonic Team is working with them. They don't mean the whole team, they probably just mean a few key people, or possibly just even Iizuka himself. If you look at the Sonic Chronicles credits the only person from Sonic Team is Takashi Iizuka.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/jYFy5Bb.jpg) (http://imgur.com/jYFy5Bb)
it seems knuckles got too much trained on the gym..
i see.. sonic like a cowboy right now.. grown up maybe since a few years :D
-
I wouldn't mind it if Big Red Button, should they succeed with Sonic Boom, continue to work with SEGA similarly to Sumo Digital. SEGA West could focus on the open world, Sonic and his friends heavy, adventure gameplay while Sonic Team focuses on the arcade style point/ring/race the clock based Sonic gameplay with an emphasis on the 2D/3D gameplay that has worked in Generations and (to an extent) Sonic Lost World.
-
Well, by all reports they are currently developing another mainline Sonic entry for the ps4/one/wiiu. I would assume they're not at home twiddling their thumbs.
And no, I don't think that anyone wants to make another Rister, sad as it sounds. They can't even afford a new Virtual On these days. The market for these lesser known IPs just isn't there.
I think the sales of Sonic's latest games are declining as Sonic Team don't seem to have any genuine ideas on how to create a 100% fun Sonic game. Generations game close for many, but it still had its problems.
Sonic Team also has more leeway of making other IPs than the other teams, and given how most people know who NiGHTS is, Sonic Team can take a few risks now and again on a new Non-Sonic project.
I can understand them making another Sonic game for Next Gen, but if it doesn't sell well or is on track to sell Lost World Numbers, than they really need to do something else and not focus too much on Sonic.
As for Virtual On, there's always the PC/Online space for that franchise. I wonder what Hitmaker are doing now...
When they say Sonic Team is working with them. They don't mean the whole team, they probably just mean a few key people, or possibly just even Iizuka himself. If you look at the Sonic Chronicles credits the only person from Sonic Team is Takashi Iizuka.
True, but I just hope that Sonic Team make other things these days. Sonic's of course going to be their baby, but I am sure even Sonic Team want to stretch their legs now and again. The Saturn Era was most likely their most creative output throughout the years with NiGHTS and Burning Rangers in their stable. Even if they can't return to those, Sonic Team now has a chance to make something interesting whilst Sonic Boom makes the headlines and grabs the attention.
I'm not saying I don't want Sonic Team to make Sonic games, but I don't think making Sonic games all the time is healthy. Even J.K Rowling is trying to make other things to get rid of her "Harry Potter Writer" stigma.
-
I'm not saying I don't want Sonic Team to make Sonic games, but I don't think making Sonic games all the time is healthy.
I sometimes wonder if they feel more like assembly line workers than game devs.
-
That is really weird. Well regardless of the intention, I do like the result, a spin off game that doesn't affect the main series and let's new talent make something different. I like this as much as I like seeing different interpretations of characters in comic spinoffs and the like.
If it works, awesome something familiar yet new to enjoy. If it doesn't, it doesn't affect the main series anyway so it's easily ignored.
See my issue is this doesn't retain much of Sonic from the looks of things and a lot of designs (The robots) just scream generic baddies. I'd also wonder that if Sonic Team themselves were behind this, would the character designs be getting a lot more criticism?
It's not like I'm new to facelifts either, Godzilla gets a new canon and appearance in almost every single film but the designs almost always retain what makes the series Godzilla. This though kind of reminds me of the 1998 American abomination.
I am excited about several things (The talent, the level design) but I am disappointed at the same time. The art direction seems bad, the co-op is something I never wanted in a Sonic game but above all else, if SEGA wanted to establish a new continuity with Sonic, why did they not just go with classic Sonic getting his own series?
I think the sales of Sonic's latest games are declining as Sonic Team don't seem to have any genuine ideas on how to create a 100% fun Sonic game. Generations game close for many, but it still had its problems.
Honestly it's more to do with Sonic being on a dead platform. The Wii U has seen every series premier exclusively on it shown massive declines whilst the 3DS is in a head on battle with the mobile space (Something Sonic is doing extremely well at mind). Once Sonic hits multi platform status again, you'll see the series hit back to 1.9 million+ debuts in first 6 months. It would help that by 2015 the Wii U should have a more sizeable userbase.
Sonic Team also has more leeway of making other IPs than the other teams, and given how most people know who NiGHTS is, Sonic Team can take a few risks now and again on a new Non-Sonic project.
NiGHTS might have a vocal fanbase but they are just that, in truth the majority of sales of the original NiGHTS came from Japan. Ristar and Burning Rangers were also commercial flops and Billy Hatcher barely managed to break past a million.
In truth for every 10 new IPs SEGA develops, only 1 or 2 are considered a success. Binary Domain, Vanquish, MadWorld, Anarchy Reigns, Stormrise, End of Eternity, The Club and Rise of Nightmares all flopped. Compare that with 7th Dragon, Bayonetta and Valkyria Chronicles... One of which was not really that successful. We can see from the titles that are coming out this year (Ryu Ga Gotoku: Ishin, Hero Bank, Project 575 and Alien: Isolation) SEGA still wants to take risks, but already one of those risky games have failed so...
Though do keep in mind SEGA's staff move around the company (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=2734.msg59588#msg59588).
-
See my issue is this doesn't retain much of Sonic from the looks of things and a lot of designs (The robots) just scream generic baddies. I'd also wonder that if Sonic Team themselves were behind this, would the character designs be getting a lot more criticism?
It's not like I'm new to facelifts either, Godzilla gets a new canon and appearance in almost every single film but the designs almost always retain what makes the series Godzilla. This though kind of reminds me of the 1998 American abomination.
I am excited about several things (The talent, the level design) but I am disappointed at the same time. The art direction seems bad, the co-op is something I never wanted in a Sonic game but above all else, if SEGA wanted to establish a new continuity with Sonic, why did they not just go with classic Sonic getting his own series?
I actually don't mind the art style for the characters at all, it's different enough to be distinct for something that's meant to be unrelated.
I also liked the concept art for the levels. I haven't seen too much of the baddies to comment.
I'm looking at it more like Marvel and then Marvel Noir or something. A different continuity that has zero to do with the main series, and the creators can go a little nuts with it.
-
NiGHTS might have a vocal fanbase but they are just that, in truth the majority of sales of the original NiGHTS came from Japan. Ristar and Burning Rangers were also commercial flops and Billy Hatcher barely managed to break past a million.
I don't necessarily think that had anything to do with the games themselves. Ristar was released at the end of the 16-bit era while NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, and Billy Hatcher were all titles for consoles that flopped hard.
-
I actually don't mind the art style for the characters at all, it's different enough to be distinct for something that's meant to be unrelated.
Honestly the lankiness of the characters bothers me. Robotnik seems fine (Even better infact, bad arse swallowtail tux) but the major characters apart from Tails look pretty bad to me.
I also liked the concept art for the levels. I haven't seen too much of the baddies to comment.
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/wiiu/sonic_boom/screens/sonic_boom_5.jpg
http://i1.cdnds.net/14/06/618x347/gaming-sonic-boom-video-screenshot-05.jpg
Not feeling either designs much. Did like the one from the cartoon though!
I'm looking at it more like Marvel and then Marvel Noir or something. A different continuity that has zero to do with the main series, and the creators can go a little nuts with it.
Yeah I was talking about how Marvel manage their IPs and SEGA should learn from it with Barry and it makes a lot of sense. At the same time if it becomes too different, why not just make a new IP instead?
-
Yeah I was talking about how Marvel manage their IPs and SEGA should learn from it with Barry and it makes a lot of sense. At the same time if it becomes too different, why not just make a new IP instead?
That's a good point, I often wonder myself sometimes why even bother keeping the IP. I can see the sense in it sometimes, but other times I think it's just there to help sales/popularity by attaching a popular name.
-
That's a good point, I often wonder myself sometimes why even bother keeping the IP. I can see the sense in it sometimes, but other times I think it's just there to help sales/popularity by attaching a popular name.
That's my concern, I also had it with the mainline Sonic series too, removing stuff like item boxes, the way rings are lost etc it just slowly started to become more and more like a generic platformer (Though they've reversed a lot of decisions, more has to be done)
I just hope they stick with a bit of tradition, though not the more murky bits like Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic 06 obviously.
I don't necessarily think that had anything to do with the games themselves. Ristar was released at the end of the 16-bit era while NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, and Billy Hatcher were all titles for consoles that flopped hard.
Whilst you have a point with Ristar, I disagree with the points for the other three.
Panzer Dragoon, Sakura Taisen and Let's Make A... series all started life on the Saturn and continued into the next generation. Whilst Super Monkey Ball was a major success on the Gamecube and went through the next two generations. It doesn't help that NiGHTS was probably seen as the big Saturn title by SEGA but it didn't quite match their expectations.
-
Burning Rangers was, like Ristar, released towards the end of a console's lifespan, and had a notoriously brief print run in the West. If Billy Hatcher did sell a million, I'd hardly call that "flopping hard", especially on the Gamecube, a system where few third party titles found success.
NiGHTS was a game that actually did have a sequel in development at one point, for both the Saturn and later the Dreamcast, called "Air NiGHTS".
-
Whilst you have a point with Ristar, I disagree with the points for the other three.
Panzer Dragoon, Sakura Taisen and Let's Make A... series all started life on the Saturn and continued into the next generation. Whilst Super Monkey Ball was a major success on the Gamecube and went through the next two generations. It doesn't help that NiGHTS was probably seen as the big Saturn title by SEGA but it didn't quite match their expectations.
You forget that NiGHTS was supposed to have a Dreamcast game. It was Yuji Naka who abandoned the idea when the gyroscopic controller was deemed impractical. Burning Rangers, like Ristar, also came out near the very end of its console generation.
Edit: Nuckles beat me, lol.
I'm sure Panzer Dragoon's status as a launch title helped it significantly. It was also the only launch title that wasn't a graphical mess.
Also, using Sakura Wars and the Let's Make games to support your argument is a bit disingenuous. The only sales data that was relevant to these titles comes from within Japan because they were both Japanese exclusives. The Saturn was well regarded in Japan, and when these titles sold well enough in Japan, they got sequels in Japan. A Sakura Wars game would not come out in America until 2010 (no thanks to Sega).
-
Burning Rangers was, like Ristar, released towards the end of a console's lifespan, and had a notoriously brief print run in the West. If Billy Hatcher did sell a million, I'd hardly call that "flopping hard", especially on the Gamecube, a system where few third party titles found success.
NiGHTS was a game that actually did have a sequel in development at one point, for both the Saturn and later the Dreamcast, called "Air NiGHTS".
VGChartz has Billy Hatcher at a quarter million copies which is still pretty shitty even for a GC game. I'll concede that point.
-
VGChartz isn't really the most reliable site for sales numbers.
-
Regardless, I don't remember hearing that the game was particularly successful.
But it was also not the most well-received game, to be fair.
-
VGChartz isn't really the most reliable site for sales numbers.
Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing? I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation. Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report.
-
VGChartz isn't really the most reliable site for sales numbers.
Unless you have a 10-year-old earnings report you can point to, it's the best information available.
-
Nah, but I just feel the need to point that out whenever its referenced as a serious source.
Regardless, I don't remember hearing that the game was particularly successful.
But it was also not the most well-received game, to be fair.
Oddly enough, some friends of mine whom I wouldn't expect to care for it have been praising it lately...
-
Burning Rangers was, like Ristar, released towards the end of a console's lifespan, and had a notoriously brief print run in the West. If Billy Hatcher did sell a million, I'd hardly call that "flopping hard", especially on the Gamecube, a system where few third party titles found success.
NiGHTS was a game that actually did have a sequel in development at one point, for both the Saturn and later the Dreamcast, called "Air NiGHTS".
But Sakura Taisen 2 was released in the same year and that went on to sell over 500,000 and I believe so did a Super Robot Wars title. Whilst you have a point with the Western release, I'm just doubtful a title about firefighters in space would be a highly successful venture for SEGA over here.
I never said Billy Hatcher flopped hard but as far as I know from old NPD records, it never broke the 200,000 mark in the United States. I am just guesstimating that Europe might have helped it significantly but I really have nothing to support that other than "Well Sonic Team made it and it's a platformer"
You forget that NiGHTS was supposed to have a Dreamcast game. It was Yuji Naka who abandoned the idea when the gyroscopic controller was deemed impractical. Burning Rangers, like Ristar, also came out near the very end of its console generation.
I'm aware of that but I'm just pointing out NiGHTS is not that successful outside of Japan (The original did close to 350k in it's first year on the Japanese market) and that was my point, it might seem well known because of the vocal fanbase but it is a niche product here. It's the same with Yakuza, a pretty vocal fanbase but at the end of the day sales data shows the fanbase is relatively small even amongst niche series.
I'm sure Panzer Dragoon's status as a launch title helped it significantly. It was also the only launch title that wasn't a graphical mess.
But that didn't stop the sequel on the console to sell well too but in fairness SEGA probably had different expectations for a title developed by their premier console developer vs Team Andromeda.
Also, using Sakura Wars and the Let's Make games to support your argument is a bit disingenuous. The only sales data that was relevant to these titles comes from within Japan because they were both Japanese exclusives. The Saturn was well regarded in Japan, and when these titles sold well enough in Japan, they got sequels in Japan. A Sakura Wars game would not come out in America until 2010 (no thanks to Sega).
But I am talking about it from a purely sales point of view. Irregardless of where those titles found successes, they found them somewhere. If Burning Rangers, Ristar etc found success in one region, SEGA would have continued to develop more entries to those games. Sonic is a poor seller in Japan but that never stopped SEGA making more sequels because he was hugely successful in the Western world.
In any case my original point wasn't directly aimed at any particular game in the list but trying to justify a game selling poorly on the console it released on, despite said console having multiple successful games launched on it, disproves that notion.
Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing? I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation. Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report.
Unless you have a 10-year-old earnings report you can point to, it's the best information available.
Simply because it's the only source of information does not mean it should be used. They have greatly overestimated the sales of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games and severely underestimated Iron Man to name but two SEGA titles who's numbers did not match up and from the looks of things, Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed seems to be too. I've even seen sales numbers for SKUs that do not exist. It also helps that we do not know their methodology whilst sales trackers like NPD, Media Create, Chart Tracker etc has access to large number of stores across their respective countries.
So until their tracker becomes reliable, then there is no reason to use them.
-
Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing? I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation. Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report.
Just because the 10 year old kid at the kindergarten who's dad supposedly works at Microsoft is your only source for certain info doesn't mean you should report it.
-
Just because the 10 year old kid at the kindergarten who's dad supposedly works at Microsoft is your only source for certain info doesn't mean you should report it.
This is kind of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? Even though they are compiling their numbers from unchecked sources, they're sometimes accurate. That's more than you can say for the "dad" that works for microsoft.
Plus, there is a method to the madness.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/82746/editorial-why-it-is-so-easy-to-blame-vgchartz/
-
Plus, there is a method to the madness.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/82746/editorial-why-it-is-so-easy-to-blame-vgchartz/
200 stores across America who may or may not share their information with VGChartz. Most of these stores make some money selling their data to NPD which in turns sells that data off to publishers, I'm not sure they would, out of the kindness of their heart, share much information with VGChartzzzzzzz.
As I said though, their biggest issue is reliability.
-
https://twitter.com/SEGAbits/status/433596840911462400
Saw Barry post this, another major departure from the series is there will not be Chaos Emeralds.
Personally I don't mind the Emeralds not appearing since they've become a tired plot device but at the same time, I'm not sure so many changes at once is really advisable, still need something to say it relates to Sonic other than the character designs and the names of the core cast.
-
Chaos Emeralds just became a McGuffin in recent games anyway.
-
That means no Super Sonic. I can live with that... I think.
-
Chaos Emeralds just became a McGuffin in recent games anyway.
Good thing Lost World never used it as a plot device either.
I don't mind it when they include them as an optional side quest (since it's a staple in Sonic games), but being the plot device of most of the recent games just make it tiresome.
Seems they are continuing the series without them in any form (unless you count 3DS Lost World which uses them as a side quest).
-
I'm aware of that but I'm just pointing out NiGHTS is not that successful outside of Japan (The original did close to 350k in it's first year on the Japanese market) and that was my point, it might seem well known because of the vocal fanbase but it is a niche product here. It's the same with Yakuza, a pretty vocal fanbase but at the end of the day sales data shows the fanbase is relatively small even amongst niche series.
I wasn't questioning their status as niche titles today. There's no denying that. The reason they flopped upon release is certainly debatable though. There's also the question of whether these titles would be viable in today's market. As far as NiGHTS is concerned, the answer would seem to be no. I do think Sega dropped the ball with Journey of Dreams and even the HD remake, but at the end of the day, I realize people have a hard time wrapping their heads around how the game is supposed to be played and that a flying purple jester is a really hard sell to most people. Ristar and Burning Rangers though, I'm not so sure...
But I am talking about it from a purely sales point of view. Irregardless of where those titles found successes, they found them somewhere. If Burning Rangers, Ristar etc found success in one region, SEGA would have continued to develop more entries to those games. Sonic is a poor seller in Japan but that never stopped SEGA making more sequels because he was hugely successful in the Western world.
It all comes down to the budget. Burning Rangers was a larger project and would have had significantly more money and resources devoted to it than an RPG like Sakura Wars. Success within Japan alone may not have been enough to guarantee a sequel.
In any case my original point wasn't directly aimed at any particular game in the list but trying to justify a game selling poorly on the console it released on, despite said console having multiple successful games launched on it, disproves that notion.
Never claimed that being on a failed console was the sole reason for their lackluster sales numbers, but it certainly was a contributing factor.
-
So it's safe to say that this is basically SEGA's answer to something like Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures?
-
To whomever made the point, to say that third parties all did poorly on the GCN is absurd, as the GameCube was the console Sega was most consistently successful on during that generation, 2K games aside. Sonic's countless outings, Super Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi, Phantasy Star Online and so on all did respectably. Super Monkey Ball (and its sequel) clocked well over a million a year before Billy Hatcher came out. The game flopped because it was a boy in a chicken suit, the marketing was bad, and the game was mediocre. It was half-assed at best, and it is only looked back at, even tepidly, because Sonic Team hasn't got a creative bone left in its body and Billy Hatcher is, I believe, their last stab at something remotely unique.
Burning Rangers wouldn't have been too big a project. It came out the same year Sonic Adventure did, and I think we can all assume which of those projects got the lion's share of Sonic Team's attention. Moreover, Sonic Team would have been developing Samba de Amigo and Chu Chu Rocket around that time, and presumably dicking around with Air NiGHTS.
I think you're missing the point with Burning Rangers; it wasn't a success, even in the land where the Saturn was successful. If it had been a success, even if it was just Japan, it would have had a sequel. Success in just Japan did mean sequels, because damn near any franchise that started on the Saturn was only successful in Japan - Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter (still seeing iterations today), Sakura Taisen, Virtual On, and so on weren't exactly blockbusters in the West, but they were still given multiple sequels across several generations. Even Panzer Dragoon - and I suspect that Panzer Dragoon Saga had a substantially larger budget than Burning Rangers - managed to squeak out another title after the Saturn.
Burning Rangers, as far as I can infer, wasn't a big budget project; it was just one of many things Sonic Team had juggling. Even in that context, it sold very poorly, even for a 1998 Saturn game.
-
So it's safe to say that this is basically SEGA's answer to something like Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures?
Not really. This thing has been in development for at least 2 to 3 years now.
-
To whomever made the point, to say that third parties all did poorly on the GCN is absurd, as the GameCube was the console Sega was most consistently successful on during that generation, 2K games aside. Sonic's countless outings, Super Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi, Phantasy Star Online and so on all did respectably. Super Monkey Ball (and its sequel) clocked well over a million a year before Billy Hatcher came out. The game flopped because it was a boy in a chicken suit, the marketing was bad, and the game was mediocre. It was half-assed at best, and it is only looked back at, even tepidly, because Sonic Team hasn't got a creative bone left in its body and Billy Hatcher is, I believe, their last stab at something remotely unique.
Sonic, Phantasy Star, and Crazy Taxi were all on PS2 and vastly outperformed their GCN counterparts. The best selling Sega title on GCN was Sonic Heroes which sold twice as well on PS2. Meanwhile PSO 1/2 and Crazy Taxi on GCN only managed around half-a-million. C'mon, we're talking about the console that even the Resident Evil series struggled on...
Burning Rangers wouldn't have been too big a project. It came out the same year Sonic Adventure did, and I think we can all assume which of those projects got the lion's share of Sonic Team's attention. Moreover, Sonic Team would have been developing Samba de Amigo and Chu Chu Rocket around that time, and presumably dicking around with Air NiGHTS.
It was a full-fledged 3D action game that pushed the Saturn to its absolute breaking point, and it had one of the most important development studios in the company at its helm. Was it operating under a Sonic budget? Doubt it. Would it have had as much money to work with as most 3D Saturn titles? Probably. Was it rushed? Most definitely. The game is short and has a number of graphical issues that the team either couldn't (because of hardware limitations) or didn't have time to correct because of Sonic Adventure. That's not to say it didn't have time to be developed (BR and SA were released 11 months apart), but the schedule was tight and the Saturn was dated and notoriously difficult to work with.
Edit: When I talk about pushing the Saturn to it's breaking point, here's what I mean... BR has actual transparencies instead of pixel mesh like most Saturn games. It makes extensive use of light sourcing (off the top of my head, I can't think of any other Saturn game that does this). It has that underwater warbling effect. There's also the voice navigation system, which was revolutionary at the time. If you don't think some serious time, effort, and money went into this game, you're bonkers.
As for ChuChu Rocket! and Samba de Amigo, they were released at the very end of 1999 and the middle of 2000 respectively. Furthermore, they were simple puzzle and music games.
I think you're missing the point with Burning Rangers; it wasn't a success, even in the land where the Saturn was successful. If it had been a success, even if it was just Japan, it would have had a sequel. Success in just Japan did mean sequels, because damn near any franchise that started on the Saturn was only successful in Japan - Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter (still seeing iterations today), Sakura Taisen, Virtual On, and so on weren't exactly blockbusters in the West, but they were still given multiple sequels across several generations. Even Panzer Dragoon - and I suspect that Panzer Dragoon Saga had a substantially larger budget than Burning Rangers - managed to squeak out another title after the Saturn.
Burning Rangers, as far as I can infer, wasn't a big budget project; it was just one of many things Sonic Team had juggling. Even in that context, it sold very poorly, even for a 1998 Saturn game.
I've already covered this at length. Not gonna repeat myself.
Edit: Actually, I will hit on VF and VO since I haven't commented on either. They're arcade titles first and console titles second. They found success in arcades. That's why you kept getting sequels. That's also why as arcades began to die, you started seeing less and less of both.
-
But Sakura Taisen 2 was released in the same year and that went on to sell over 500,000 and I believe so did a Super Robot Wars title. Whilst you have a point with the Western release, I'm just doubtful a title about firefighters in space would be a highly successful venture for SEGA over here.
I never said Billy Hatcher flopped hard but as far as I know from old NPD records, it never broke the 200,000 mark in the United States. I am just guesstimating that Europe might have helped it significantly but I really have nothing to support that other than "Well Sonic Team made it and it's a platformer"
But I am talking about it from a purely sales point of view. Irregardless of where those titles found successes, they found them somewhere. If Burning Rangers, Ristar etc found success in one region, SEGA would have continued to develop more entries to those games. Sonic is a poor seller in Japan but that never stopped SEGA making more sequels because he was hugely successful in the Western world.
Sakura Taisen 2 was the sequel to a massively successful game that spawned a multimedia franchise. Burning Rangers...wasn't. So I really wouldn't say the two games are comparable.
As for the second statement, that was aimed at something Saturn Memories said, but it turns out I misread his post. XD
So in response to that, I wouldn't say Gamecube "flopped hard". It did make a profit, and games did sell reasonably on it. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was in the NPD for months. Though it was a lot harder for exclusives to sell well on it, so I do agree with him that Billy Hatcher had a tougher time on it then it might have had on PS2 or as a multiplatform release.
Wii U....now that's an example of a flopper.
Simply because it's the only source of information does not mean it should be used. They have greatly overestimated the sales of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games and severely underestimated Iron Man to name but two SEGA titles who's numbers did not match up and from the looks of things, Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed seems to be too. I've even seen sales numbers for SKUs that do not exist. It also helps that we do not know their methodology whilst sales trackers like NPD, Media Create, Chart Tracker etc has access to large number of stores across their respective countries.
So until their tracker becomes reliable, then there is no reason to use them.
My thoughts exactly. I have an account on their site and frequent it often and their numbers have been off enough that I don't think they are relevant to discussion about sales. Aside from their Japanese numbers, which are taken straight from Media Create and Famitsu.
-
Saturn Memories:
I think you're mistaken on a few points. To begin with, the best selling Sega title on the GCN was Sonic Adventure 2, which sold something like 2 million units - which, I believe, puts it at least on par with the PS2 Sonic Heroes.
Which Phantasy Star cracked a million on the PS2? It certainly wasn't Phantasy Star Universe. That game was a flop, and I promise you had a much larger budget than PSO did. You might be thinking of the PSP games. Phantasy Star Online wasn't available on the PS2, and the GCN version more than outsold the XBOX counterparts. I would hazard to say that's pretty goddamn impressive, too, as the GCN required you buy an internet adapter and PSO was, if not the only, certainly one of the only online games on the GCN. I honestly can't think of another one off the top of my head.
I also think you're also misunderstanding the word consistent.
I'm well aware of Burning Rangers wizardry, and I stand by my original statement. The game wouldn't have been a priority - just another game. During this same time, Sonic Team was going on field trips to Mexico and Peru to scout locations for Sonic Adventure, for god sake. Don't forget that Sonic Adventure had started development in something like spring 1997, not long after NiGHTS came out. I really don't think Burning Rangers had a year and a half long development period as well (of course I could be mistaken), nor was it supposed to be the killer ap for Sega's next piece of hardware. Samba and Chu Chu both came out in 1999. I think it might be a bit unfair to call them nothing more than a music and puzzle game. The former required the development of the magnetic maracas and then converting those for home use and the ladder was the first online console game, which I imagine took a bit of elbow grease. Sonic Team had a lot of things being developed at once in the late 90s - many things not released, I think it's fair to speculate - like Air NiGHTS. I'm not saying Burning Rangers was a budget title, I am saying it was not a "big gun" and it did not live up to Sega's expectations, even if they were modest.
You didn't really cover it at length: what you said was the reason they flopped is debatable and left it at that. Earlier I believe you said it was because it came out late in the Saturn's life, and then someone pointed out ST 2 sold half a million the same year. You said something about budgets - ST had a smaller budget, so success is more easily achieved, and that's where I jumped in.
Virtua Fighter might be an arcade game first, but I think it's reasonably important to point out that Sega's consoles, in general, were home arcade machines first and foremost, so I'm not sure what your point was. Yes, Virtua Fighter was a success in the arcades, but, again, only in Japanese arcades. Regardless, Virtua Fighter's tie in ratio with early Saturn adopters was ridiculous in Japan (2:3?), and Virtua Fighter 2 was bought by (or given to) something like 20 percent of the Saturn's userbase. It was undeniably a success in Japan. By the same token, it was not a major reason most people bought a Saturn in the United States or Europe. Sega did everything under the sun to make Virtua Fighter successful in the United States and Europe, and largely were unsuccessful. You don't think they were converting the game to the Master System to flaunt their triumph do you? And despite being a flop in the west, Sega saw fit to make four direct sequels, a super-deformed version of VF3, a cross-over, an RPG (which became the most expensive game made up to that point - starting life on the Saturn), an anime and so on. Virtual On has the same argument, just on a smaller scale. Sure they were arcade hits, but only in Japanese arcades - and moreover, they did well on the consoles as well.
I think you're also ignoring the corporate culture of Sega in the 90s, which prioritized success in Japan over other markets. If Burning Rangers had sold any reasonable amount, even if it was just Japan, it would have had a sequel, or loose talk of a sequel, or anything.
I do think the game could have been more successful on the Dreamcast, but it still would be a niche title - just a niche title on a more chic platform.
Knuckles:
I think the point was that games could still sell well on the Saturn in 1998. Sakura Taisen 2 outsold every game in the series that came after it. The House of the Dead was successful in Japan; so was Shining Force 3, Dragon Force 2, the second Neon Genesis Evangeleon game, Super Robot Taisen and so on. Some of those were big sellers. Super Robot Taisen actually sold more than Sakura Taisen, actually, so it wouldn't be the case that ST was Sega's only big hit in 98.
-
I know that was the point. My point was that context is important. New IPs are always going to be riskier investments then established franchises. A new IP launching in the twilight years of a console's lifespan, when a new console is on the horizon and garnering all the attention, is going to be a much more difficult sell then the second or third iteration of a successful series with an established fan base.
Virtually every title you mentioned is a sequel to a game that came out in the middle of a console's lifespan. The only exception is House of the Dead, which was the console release of a hit arcade game. They had fans before the first line of code was even written. Ristar and Burning Rangers? Not so much.
The most ideal time to launch a new IP on any console has always been in its first few years. Games released near the end of a console's life span typically either flop or see limited release....unless it's something like God of War 2.
-
Saturn Memories:
I think you're mistaken on a few points. To begin with, the best selling Sega title on the GCN was Sonic Adventure 2, which sold something like 2 million units - which, I believe, puts it at least on par with the PS2 Sonic Heroes.
Million-and-a-half versus three million units. Not a poor seller but not better than SH PS2.
Which Phantasy Star cracked a million on the PS2? It certainly wasn't Phantasy Star Universe. That game was a flop, and I promise you had a much larger budget than PSO did. You might be thinking of the PSP games.
Yeah, my mistake. PSO I/II, Plus, and III on GCN combine for only 600 thousand though.
I also think you're also misunderstanding the word consistent.
Only Sonic and Super Monkey Ball titles cracked a million on GCN. Sega titles consistently performed better on PS2.
I'm well aware of Burning Rangers wizardry, and I stand by my original statement. The game wouldn't have been a priority - just another game. During this same time, Sonic Team was going on field trips to Mexico and Peru to scout locations for Sonic Adventure, for god sake. Don't forget that Sonic Adventure had started development in something like spring 1997, not long after NiGHTS came out. I really don't think Burning Rangers had a year and a half long development period as well (of course I could be mistaken), nor was it supposed to be the killer ap for Sega's next piece of hardware.
Sonic Jam had just released in summer of 1997. Jam's "Sonic World" was used as a test engine for Sonic Team to figure out how a 3D Sonic game might work. I doubt at that point they were taking trips to scout locations for SA in spring of '97 when they were still trying to figure out how to make Sonic work in 3D.
Samba and Chu Chu both came out in 1999.
Forgot Samba was an arcade game first. ChuChu still came mid-November of '99 though.
I think it might be a bit unfair to call them nothing more than a music and puzzle game. The former required the development of the magnetic maracas and then converting those for home use and the ladder was the first online console game, which I imagine took a bit of elbow grease. Sonic Team had a lot of things being developed at once in the late 90s - many things not released, I think it's fair to speculate - like Air NiGHTS. I'm not saying Burning Rangers was a budget title, I am saying it was not a "big gun" and it did not live up to Sega's expectations, even if they were modest.
Sonic Team would have had input on the maracas the same way Sega's arcade developers had input on their games' cabinets, but they wouldn't have been directly responsible for their development. Online play had been something Sega had dabbled in since the Genesis days. And Air NiGHTS, who knows how far they got into that before abandoning it. There's very little information out there about it and absolutely no screenshots. It may have only been in planning stages.
You didn't really cover it at length: what you said was the reason they flopped is debatable and left it at that. Earlier I believe you said it was because it came out late in the Saturn's life, and then someone pointed out ST 2 sold half a million the same year. You said something about budgets - ST had a smaller budget, so success is more easily achieved, and that's where I jumped in.
In previous posts, I talked about Ristar, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, the Panzer Dragoon series, Sakura Wars, the Let's Make series, etc...
Virtua Fighter might be an arcade game first, but I think it's reasonably important to point out that Sega's consoles, in general, were home arcade machines first and foremost, so I'm not sure what your point was. Yes, Virtua Fighter was a success in the arcades, but, again, only in Japanese arcades. Regardless, Virtua Fighter's tie in ratio with early Saturn adopters was ridiculous in Japan (2:3?), and Virtua Fighter 2 was bought by (or given to) something like 20 percent of the Saturn's userbase. It was undeniably a success in Japan. By the same token, it was not a major reason most people bought a Saturn in the United States or Europe. Sega did everything under the sun to make Virtua Fighter successful in the United States and Europe, and largely were unsuccessful. You don't think they were converting the game to the Master System to flaunt their triumph do you? And despite being a flop in the west, Sega saw fit to make four direct sequels, a super-deformed version of VF3, a cross-over, an RPG (which became the most expensive game made up to that point - starting life on the Saturn), an anime and so on. Virtual On has the same argument, just on a smaller scale. Sure they were arcade hits, but only in Japanese arcades - and moreover, they did well on the consoles as well.
Can you point to an article or something that states that VF did poorly in US arcades? Everything I've ever read seems agree that VF did well and impressed gamers with it's 3D polygonal graphics. It wasn't SF2 successful or anything, but it did well.
-
I wasn't questioning their status as niche titles today. There's no denying that. The reason they flopped upon release is certainly debatable though. There's also the question of whether these titles would be viable in today's market. As far as NiGHTS is concerned, the answer would seem to be no. I do think Sega dropped the ball with Journey of Dreams and even the HD remake, but at the end of the day, I realize people have a hard time wrapping their heads around how the game is supposed to be played and that a flying purple jester is a really hard sell to most people. Ristar and Burning Rangers though, I'm not so sure...
I think Burning Rangers would have failed just as badly personally. Even in Japan I'm not sure I see much of a market for firefighters in space and if we step into the West it becomes even harder to think it would have been a big hit here. Same with Billy Hatcher, the premise of the game coupled with it's low quality certainly destroyed any chance that title had. Rister I think was a missed opportunity but I do think it still might have a chance today because children's tastes knows no bounds.
But my original point was Sonic Team is only known for one successful product in the West so I'd wager SEGA is hesistant they would want to risk them making a new IP. Especially when budgets are spiralling further upwards and that specific team has shown both an inability to generate massive successes or developing critically acclaimed titles.
It all comes down to the budget. Burning Rangers was a larger project and would have had significantly more money and resources devoted to it than an RPG like Sakura Wars. Success within Japan alone may not have been enough to guarantee a sequel.
That's never been the case with SEGA though, from Phantasy Star to Virtua Fighter, Yakuza to 7th Dragon and Valkyria Chronicles to the Tony Taka Shining games, they've always shown a willingness to support games even if they only find success in Japan. If Burning Rangers pulled similar, perhaps even half, Sakura Taisen's numbers in Japan we would probably be looking at a Burning Rangers 2.
Budget was a factor but I would not imagine we were looking at a game that would not profit with sales of 300,000 - 400,000 units.
Never claimed that being on a failed console was the sole reason for their lackluster sales numbers, but it certainly was a contributing factor.
Right but I think, especially for Billy Hatcher, it had more to do with the game than the console itself.
Sakura Taisen 2 was the sequel to a massively successful game that spawned a multimedia franchise. Burning Rangers...wasn't. So I really wouldn't say the two games are comparable.
It just shows to me there was still life in the Saturn in its home turf, simply because a successor is announced shouldn't mean that software sales are going to collapse completely. Especially as we saw the Dreamcast did not make Saturn numbers, where did that demograph go? They were certainly still on the Saturn for the time being!
My thoughts exactly. I have an account on their site and frequent it often and their numbers have been off enough that I don't think they are relevant to discussion about sales. Aside from their Japanese numbers, which are taken straight from Media Create and Famitsu.
I just hope more people start to realise how bad they are with numbers, they have Valkyria Chronicles with having sold over half a million in America but NPD has that title selling under 200,000 in the US...
-
I'm rather skeptical that Sonic Heroes sold 3 million on the PS2, but if we're going to use VgChartz as a source, then I suppose it'd be fair to say Sonic Adventure 2 sold 2.6 million on the GCN, not the 1.5-2 I guessed. The VG numbers, then, have us at an adoption rate of something like 1:9. While 2.6 million isn't quite 3, I think it's plenty impressive in context. I do not think Sonic Adventure 2 would have sold much more on the PS2, despite that system's install base.
And which series were pumping out over a million on PS2? Sonic, one Virtua Fighter game and Yakuza - which was (conveniently for the purpose of argument) only successful in Japan. The rest of the pack hardly inspires me to go buy stock. Astro Boy was hardly a runaway. Same with Blood Will Tell, Nightshade, Virtual On Marz, the Sakura Taisen series, after a point the J-League games, and so on. Plenty of high profile, expensive, disappointments - especially Sakura Taisen, which was supposed to be expanded into this giant metaverse sort of deal, wasn't it?
The Gamecube saw very few high budget games, and, generally speaking, games sold reasonably relative to their budgets. PSO I&II was a port of a DC game that probably made its budget back in 2000, III wasn't a roaring success, I'll grant you, but it wasn't a re-imagining of the Phantasy Star world with a three year long development cycle and robust budget, either. Skies of Arcadia was a pruned port, Crazy Taxi was a port, and so on. The PS2 saw plenty of high profile, expensive games (like Astro Boy) flop, badly. The GCN did, too (like Billy Hatcher), but I think it had a better record, on the whole.
I don't think Billy would have done much, if any, better on the PS2. I suppose a multi-release wouldn't have hurt, but Sonic Team never seemed to wrap their heads around the PS2, so for the sake of critical acclaim, it might be for the best that didn't happen.
I think you're confusing my two statements, and I could have written them better. Sonic Adventure was being developed as early as spring 1997, which would have been roughly the same time Burning Rangers was getting underway. Burning Rangers couldn't have been in the burner for more than a few months before development of Sonic Adventure got rolling. I wasn't saying they were poking around in the Yucatan in spring 97 (I don't remember when they went, but it was fairly early in development, wasn't it?) - I was just illustrating the difference in priority.
Sonic Team used the early Saturn engine of Sonic Adventure for Sonic Jam and then changed platforms to DC. It wasn't as if they were making Sonic Jam's engine just to have a neat menu - it was recycled material from their early development.
Point taken with Samba, though I'm still going to have to disagree with you on Chu Chu Rocket. There's a big difference between the single player Phantasy Star text adventures being downloaded on a cable box, or even the network play you could dick around with on the Saturn, and something like Chu Chu Rocket. It wasn't an easy task, which would be why it was just a puzzle game.
No, nothing with Air NiGHTS, but the point I was trying to convey was they had a lot of balls going at once. Even if the game was just at the conception stage, that is still taking time, money and attention away from other projects.
I think we're sort of straying a bit at this point. All I was trying to say was Burning Rangers wasn't a failure because of the Saturn. It wasn't a game like Shenmue that had to move a lot of figures to break even; it was just one of many games Sonic Team was working on at the time, like Propeller Arena or OutTrigger were just games AM2 was working on in 2000. It didn't meet sales expectations - and there were plenty of Saturn games that did meet expectations in 1998.
Virtua Fighter was impressive (it was recognized by the Smithsonian wan't it?), and I was speaking too melodramatically when I said it flopped. My bad. Let me try that again. It didn't meet expectations. I agree it sold decently, but as you said, it wasn't the Street Fighter slayer it was in Japan, which is what the Japanese executives seemed to hope - I feel like a couple of western fighters were axed, like Eternal Champions, so Sega could concentrate it's firepower on promoting Virtua Fighter. As far as I can tell, it became a rather obscure niche title in the west by the mid to late 90s, and it has more or less stayed that way. It certainly never became the system seller it was in Japan, or the one Soul Calibre would become for the DC. I don't think it was on the strength of the western arcade market that Virtua Fighter stayed afloat - I don't even think western sales mattered for that series either way, like they don't for Yakuza today.
-
Guys I think we're getting off topic here. Aren't we suppose to be talking about the upcoming Sonic Boom TV show and game?
-
I think Burning Rangers would have failed just as badly personally. Even in Japan I'm not sure I see much of a market for firefighters in space and if we step into the West it becomes even harder to think it would have been a big hit here. Same with Billy Hatcher, the premise of the game coupled with it's low quality certainly destroyed any chance that title had. Rister I think was a missed opportunity but I do think it still might have a chance today because children's tastes knows no bounds.
We're down to mere conjecture at this point, so I'm not going to drag this out much further. I will add though that a lot of little kids grow up dreaming of becoming firefighters and police officers. They're popular professions among youngsters.
But my original point was Sonic Team is only known for one successful product in the West so I'd wager SEGA is hesistant they would want to risk them making a new IP. Especially when budgets are spiralling further upwards and that specific team has shown both an inability to generate massive successes or developing critically acclaimed titles.
I think that's part of the problem though. They're a studio that's been stuck retooling the same damn game almost uninterrupted for over 10 years now. That sort of thing would take its toll anyone's sense of creativity.
That's never been the case with SEGA though, from Phantasy Star to Virtua Fighter, Yakuza to 7th Dragon and Valkyria Chronicles to the Tony Taka Shining games, they've always shown a willingness to support games even if they only find success in Japan. If Burning Rangers pulled similar, perhaps even half, Sakura Taisen's numbers in Japan we would probably be looking at a Burning Rangers 2.
So its easier for you to accept that Ristar, on a console that was popular around the world, failed because it came out at the end of its generation, but not Burning Rangers, which also came out at the end of its generation but was on a failed console that Bernie Stolar prematurely buried? I just don't think we're gonna see eye-to-eye on this one.
I'm rather skeptical that Sonic Heroes sold 3 million on the PS2, but if we're going to use VgChartz as a source, then I suppose it'd be fair to say Sonic Adventure 2 sold 2.6 million on the GCN, not the 1.5-2 I guessed. The VG numbers, then, have us at an adoption rate of something like 1:9. While 2.6 million isn't quite 3, I think it's plenty impressive in context. I do not think Sonic Adventure 2 would have sold much more on the PS2, despite that system's install base.
And which series were pumping out over a million on PS2? Sonic, one Virtua Fighter game and Yakuza - which was (conveniently for the purpose of argument) only successful in Japan. The rest of the pack hardly inspires me to go buy stock. Astro Boy was hardly a runaway. Same with Blood Will Tell, Nightshade, Virtual On Marz, the Sakura Taisen series, after a point the J-League games, and so on. Plenty of high profile, expensive, disappointments - especially Sakura Taisen, which was supposed to be expanded into this giant metaverse sort of deal, wasn't it?
The Gamecube saw very few high budget games, and, generally speaking, games sold reasonably relative to their budgets. PSO I&II was a port of a DC game that probably made its budget back in 2000, III wasn't a roaring success, I'll grant you, but it wasn't a re-imagining of the Phantasy Star world with a three year long development cycle and robust budget, either. Skies of Arcadia was a pruned port, Crazy Taxi was a port, and so on. The PS2 saw plenty of high profile, expensive games (like Astro Boy) flop, badly. The GCN did, too (like Billy Hatcher), but I think it had a better record, on the whole.
I don't think Billy would have done much, if any, better on the PS2. I suppose a multi-release wouldn't have hurt, but Sonic Team never seemed to wrap their heads around the PS2, so for the sake of critical acclaim, it might be for the best that didn't happen.
The sheer number of titles released on the PS2 meant more failures were inevitable. Meanwhile on GC, Sega struggled with games that should have been easy sells like the Sonic Gems Collection or their 2K series. If GameCube had been a consistent earner, you would have seen a lot more ports, but it just wasn't worth it.
I think you're confusing my two statements, and I could have written them better. Sonic Adventure was being developed as early as spring 1997, which would have been roughly the same time Burning Rangers was getting underway. Burning Rangers couldn't have been in the burner for more than a few months before development of Sonic Adventure got rolling. I wasn't saying they were poking around in the Yucatan in spring 97 (I don't remember when they went, but it was fairly early in development, wasn't it?) - I was just illustrating the difference in priority.
Sonic Team used the early Saturn engine of Sonic Adventure for Sonic Jam and then changed platforms to DC. It wasn't as if they were making Sonic Jam's engine just to have a neat menu - it was recycled material from their early development.
I knew Sonic Team had been messing around, trying to figure out how Sonic would work in 3D environments since STI wasn't making a ton of progress (I assumed that work was what was recycled into Sonic Jam), but I had no idea Sonic Adventure was originally conceived as a Saturn title. Makes sense though.
Point taken with Samba, though I'm still going to have to disagree with you on Chu Chu Rocket. There's a big difference between the single player Phantasy Star text adventures being downloaded on a cable box, or even the network play you could dick around with on the Saturn, and something like Chu Chu Rocket. It wasn't an easy task, which would be why it was just a puzzle game.
Except Sega continued developing online versions of their games into the Saturn-era with titles like Daytona, Sega Rally, Virtual-On, etc. These were 3D games running on complex hardware through an add-on peripheral. The Dreamcast, on the other hand, was rather simple by comparison and was purpose-built with online play in mind. Granted, ChuChu was Sonic Team's first online title, but they would have had people in the company who were thoroughly familiar with online gaming to lend a hand.
I think we're sort of straying a bit at this point. All I was trying to say was Burning Rangers wasn't a failure because of the Saturn. It wasn't a game like Shenmue that had to move a lot of figures to break even; it was just one of many games Sonic Team was working on at the time, like Propeller Arena or OutTrigger were just games AM2 was working on in 2000. It didn't meet sales expectations - and there were plenty of Saturn games that did meet expectations in 1998.
If by "plenty" you mean Shining Force III and Panzer Dragoon Saga, then sure. SFIII probably did well. Who knows with PDS though. We never did get another Panzer Dragoon RPG so maybe it didn't do so hot.
Virtua Fighter was impressive (it was recognized by the Smithsonian wan't it?), and I was speaking too melodramatically when I said it flopped. My bad. Let me try that again. It didn't meet expectations. I agree it sold decently, but as you said, it wasn't the Street Fighter slayer it was in Japan, which is what the Japanese executives seemed to hope - I feel like a couple of western fighters were axed, like Eternal Champions, so Sega could concentrate it's firepower on promoting Virtua Fighter. As far as I can tell, it became a rather obscure niche title in the west by the mid to late 90s, and it has more or less stayed that way. It certainly never became the system seller it was in Japan, or the one Soul Calibre would become for the DC. I don't think it was on the strength of the western arcade market that Virtua Fighter stayed afloat - I don't even think western sales mattered for that series either way, like they don't for Yakuza today.
Arcades began to die, VF3 debuted on the Dreamcast, and 3D fighting games in general fell in popularity. The fighting game scene doesn't take 3D fighters seriously at all.
-
I don't know if you can really call PDS or Shining Force 3 successes, as neither of them charted in the top 30 for 1998, an the lowest selling titles was 352,000. At the very least they weren't at the same level as Sakura Taisen 2 (which isn't surprising, given ST2 was a quickly becoming a media phenomenon at that point). Does anyone have any numbers?
http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-BestSell1998.shtml (http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-BestSell1998.shtml)
-
I don't know if you can really call PDS or Shining Force 3 successes, as neither of them charted in the top 30 for 1998, an the lowest selling titles was 352,000. At the very least they weren't at the same level as Sakura Taisen 2 (which isn't surprising, given ST2 was a quickly becoming a media phenomenon at that point). Does anyone have any numbers?
http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-BestSell1998.shtml (http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-BestSell1998.shtml)
Looks like Sakura Wars 2 also came out that year. Still the other two didn't even chart and both were part of established franchises. Burning Rangers didn't have that benefit.
-
We're down to mere conjecture at this point, so I'm not going to drag this out much further. I will add though that a lot of little kids grow up dreaming of becoming firefighters and police officers. They're popular professions among youngsters.
I was unaware of any child when I was growing up wanting to be firefighters or police officers, perhaps sports players or scientists but hardly came across anyone hoping to be a police officer/firefighter.
But it's merely anecdotal evidence from me.
I think that's part of the problem though. They're a studio that's been stuck retooling the same damn game almost uninterrupted for over 10 years now. That sort of thing would take its toll anyone's sense of creativity.
This has nothing to do with creativity, Sonic Team had major issues besides just mere creativity. A disaster like Sonic 06 or NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams was more than just working on the same game again and again, it was down to the fact they became horribly inept.
Compare them to either Nintendo's inhouse studios who work on the same IP year in year out with continued excellence or even SEGA's own Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio who worked on only one new IP since 2005 but continue to add more and more to the Yakuza franchise.
So its easier for you to accept that Ristar, on a console that was popular around the world, failed because it came out at the end of its generation, but not Burning Rangers, which also came out at the end of its generation but was on a failed console that Bernie Stolar prematurely buried? I just don't think we're gonna see eye-to-eye on this one.
The point I addressed had nothing to do with my belief of either title's reason of failure.
-
So SEGA just released an announcement recap video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cy3XaFFHBk
-
So SEGA just released an announcement recap video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cy3XaFFHBk
Now we're talking! Pretty nice recap video SEGA of America made. New characters they said, wonder if they'll sneak in classic Sonic characters we haven't seen in awhile. I think Fang would fit perfectly for the show as long as they keep the pop gun.
-
I was unaware of any child when I was growing up wanting to be firefighters or police officers, perhaps sports players or scientists but hardly came across anyone hoping to be a police officer/firefighter.
But it's merely anecdotal evidence from me.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/26/starting-second-career-leadership-careers_dream_jobs.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/26/starting-second-career-leadership-careers_dream_jobs.html)
Wish I could find where exactly firefighter ranked in their survey, but the top spot, "superhero," accounted for seven out of 33 (weird way of measuring based on a survey of several hundred) while firefighter was at five out of 33. Couldn't find a more authoritative source than Forbes, but similar surveys on other sites usually have firefighter or "emergency services" within the top 10.
This has nothing to do with creativity, Sonic Team had major issues besides just mere creativity. A disaster like Sonic 06 or NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams was more than just working on the same game again and again, it was down to the fact they became horribly inept.
To be fair, JoD's production schedule was basically halved when Sega did an about-face midway through production and ordered development to shift from the PS3 and 360 to the Wii. The game itself isn't terrible either. It just pales in comparison to NiD and a lot of that has to do with Wii itself.
As for Sonic '06, it's so broken and unfinished-feeling that there had to be more going on there than just Sonic Team being "horribly inept." Seeing as how it came out in November, I'm inclined to believe Sega wanted a Sonic title on the shelves in time for Christmas, and the result was an incomplete game being dumped onto the market.
Compare them to either Nintendo's inhouse studios who work on the same IP year in year out with continued excellence or even SEGA's own Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio who worked on only one new IP since 2005 but continue to add more and more to the Yakuza franchise.
Mario may not be as trouble-racked as Sonic, but you'll still find critics out there who believe the franchise is stale.
Now we're talking! Pretty nice recap video SEGA of America made. New characters they said, wonder if they'll sneak in classic Sonic characters we haven't seen in awhile. I think Fang would fit perfectly for the show as long as they keep the pop gun.
Yippee... Sonic gets even more friends...
-
I was unaware of any child when I was growing up wanting to be firefighters or police officers, perhaps sports players or scientists but hardly came across anyone hoping to be a police officer/firefighter.
Don't we say Fireman and Policemen? Sorry. It just sounds odd when someone uses the American terms when they're not from America. :P
As for kids growing up to be something, I know two people who wanted to be Policemen growing up (family and Family friend), but one of them now wants to be a Nurse and the other's okay being an Assistant Manager.
Of course, many want to be Football players since it makes the most money!
I still don't know what I want to be, I just accepted that I will be a Graphics Designer all my life. :(
Yippee... Sonic gets even more friends...
This made me laugh because it's very sadly true.
However, Mario's "friends" don't get the same critique as Sonic's "friends" do, and I never understood why.
-
However, Mario's "friends" don't get the same critique as Sonic's "friends" do, and I never understood why.
It has a lot to do with the horrid dialogue that comes out of Sonic's friends' mouths. Mario's friends are usually tastefully silent apart from a few catch phrases. Charmy is just. . .repulsive.
-
This made me laugh because it's very sadly true.
However, Mario's "friends" don't get the same critique as Sonic's "friends" do, and I never understood why.
That's because Sonic's friends were never the problem with the franchise. They just became scapegoat in place of greater problems, such as the simple fact that the alternate game play segments were not all that good. They could have given Sonic fishing mini games instead of Big, and it still wouldn't have made Sonic Adventure a better game.
There's nothing wrong with giving a universe more characters. That was never the problem with any of the games in the franchise. Virtually every new entry in any franchise introduces additional characters to the universe.
-
It has a lot to do with the horrid dialogue that comes out of Sonic's friends' mouths. Mario's friends are usually tastefully silent apart from a few catch phrases. Charmy is just. . .repulsive.
I think personally that talking gives the characters a reason to exist, and Nintendo's got a few characters people love to hate, such as Daisy's awful lines. Not that I mind Daisy myself!
That's because Sonic's friends were never the problem with the franchise. They just became scapegoat in place of greater problems, such as the simple fact that the alternate game play segments were not all that good. They could have given Sonic fishing mini games instead of Big, and it still wouldn't have made Sonic Adventure a better game.
There's nothing wrong with giving a universe more characters. That was never the problem with any of the games in the franchise. Virtually every new entry in any franchise introduces additional characters to the universe.
Nintendo's given their characters games too (although they are likely better than most of Sonic's friends' output), but I don't really see the point of Toads (at least playable ones). Yoshi is more relevant when he has his own game rather than an extra "item" to use, in terms of riding on, and Wario's not really a part of the Mario Universe really (given how the team who made Mario Land 2 didn't really make Mario games prior to that).
Mario side characters probably have more charm than Sonic side characters, but I still think that people give Sonic's side more grief simply because of their own gameplay mechanics in games rather than their personality or relevance to Sonic himself.
-
Wait, this game was really in development since 2011?
-
Wait, this game was really in development since 2011?
apparently. But this being the studio's first game, I would keep my expectations on the low side. I'm sure a lot of that time was ironing out production kinks as opposed to making the actual game.
-
apparently. But this being the studio's first game, I would keep my expectations on the low side. I'm sure a lot of that time was ironing out production kinks as opposed to making the actual game.
Well, it's not the first game by the people who work there. They all have experience working at Naughty Dog, Insomniac, High Impact etc.
They're also using a pre-existing engine, rather than one that was built from the ground up. And while a lot of time was spent making sure everything works and stuff, that is always the case with game development. But they're doing that at the same time as making the actual game, remember that it's not just one guy making this. :V
-
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/26/starting-second-career-leadership-careers_dream_jobs.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/26/starting-second-career-leadership-careers_dream_jobs.html)
Wish I could find where exactly firefighter ranked in their survey, but the top spot, "superhero," accounted for seven out of 33 (weird way of measuring based on a survey of several hundred) while firefighter was at five out of 33. Couldn't find a more authoritative source than Forbes, but similar surveys on other sites usually have firefighter or "emergency services" within the top 10.
I never realised that it was so popular in America but an interesting tad bit. But the Japanese sales were below 133,917, so I'm not sure if it's just because it was released in the last year of the consoles.
To be fair, JoD's production schedule was basically halved when Sega did an about-face midway through production and ordered development to shift from the PS3 and 360 to the Wii. The game itself isn't terrible either. It just pales in comparison to NiD and a lot of that has to do with Wii itself.
The problem was the game was already getting bad press from all the media outlets which forced SEGA to change it into a Wii only title. And whilst I did enjoy the sequels, the changes in the basic gameplay told me Iizuka just didn't get what made the original NiGHTS great, something he continues to struggle with Sonic too.
As for Sonic '06, it's so broken and unfinished-feeling that there had to be more going on there than just Sonic Team being "horribly inept." Seeing as how it came out in November, I'm inclined to believe Sega wanted a Sonic title on the shelves in time for Christmas, and the result was an incomplete game being dumped onto the market.
Even with the bugs the game is terrible. Unimaginative boss fights, poor level designs, auto-sections all over the place, the game had very basic problems and giving it an extended development time would not solve the issues unless scraping the entire game was part of the plan.
Mario may not be as trouble-racked as Sonic, but you'll still find critics out there who believe the franchise is stale.
But the number of critics who do are few and far between, most seem to be of the opinion the series is the pinnacle of gaming. I've never been keen on Mario but I cannot say Nintendo's platformer series is not one of the most polished in the industry so working on the same IP again and again should not force the sloppy mistakes Sonic Team kept making from 2003 - 2009.
-
Well, it's not the first game by the people who work there. They all have experience working at Naughty Dog, Insomniac, High Impact etc.
They're also using a pre-existing engine, rather than one that was built from the ground up. And while a lot of time was spent making sure everything works and stuff, that is always the case with game development. But they're doing that at the same time as making the actual game, remember that it's not just one guy making this. :V
Yep they probably are an experienced bunch so I doubt it's due to inexperience. Two things to keep in mind was that the game was meant to be cross generational which should mean we were going to get Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3 and Playstation 4 (Possibly Vita version?) and probably existed as late as January 2013 after which SEGA probably pulled the plug after entering the exclusive agreement with Nintendo.
Second and more important point to remember was this was a new studio. Not in the point they need to learn how to iron out problems or whatever, but hiring the right people and slowly building up the best possible staff. Alien: Isolation has been in development since sometime 2009 - 2010 but that wasn't because they were inexperienced in developing console games but they just need to hire the right staff members.
-
Our interview with Stephen Frost is live!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4mF9D--d0
-
Well, it's not the first game by the people who work there. They all have experience working at Naughty Dog, Insomniac, High Impact etc.
They're also using a pre-existing engine, rather than one that was built from the ground up. And while a lot of time was spent making sure everything works and stuff, that is always the case with game development. But they're doing that at the same time as making the actual game, remember that it's not just one guy making this. :V
It doesn't matter. A company's first game will always be a production nightmare. No matter how much experience they brought to the table, they're still making a pipeline entirely from scratch. Besides, these things usually only come together in the last year of development anyway.
Second and more important point to remember was this was a new studio. Not in the point they need to learn how to iron out problems or whatever, but hiring the right people and slowly building up the best possible staff. Alien: Isolation has been in development since sometime 2009 - 2010 but that wasn't because they were inexperienced in developing console games but they just need to hire the right staff members.
Exactly this. It doesn't mean that the game won't be good/great/whatever but that you shouldn't raise your expectations due to a longer development cycle.
also, edit but
the game was meant to be cross generational which should mean we were going to get Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3 and Playstation 4 (Possibly Vita version?) and probably existed as late as January 2013 after which SEGA probably pulled the plug after entering the exclusive agreement with Nintendo.
buuwaaaa? Is this just you logically coming to this conclusion or is there a source? The Stephen Frost interview seemed not to hint at any last minute platform switches.
-
buuwaaaa? Is this just you logically coming to this conclusion or is there a source? The Stephen Frost interview seemed not to hint at any last minute platform switches.
He's taking that away from the CVG interview, in which this was said:
Sega came to you in around 2011, which was before the three-game deal with Nintendo. Was Sonic Boom ever planned for other platforms?
SF: We always evaluate platforms, and Nintendo has always been an important partner for us. There was never really any doubt that we're going to support them - we have a really good relationship.
As with every Sonic title, we evaluate early on which platforms it should be on, but it just made sense eventually for this product to be on Wii U and 3DS.
So yeah, it was probably multi-platform at first. There was never any indication of which platforms it was originally going to be on though, so the platforms Aki mentions are just pure speculation.
-
I really liked this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6uQyteDOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6uQyteDOU)
-
buuwaaaa? Is this just you logically coming to this conclusion or is there a source? The Stephen Frost interview seemed not to hint at any last minute platform switches.
As of mid-2010, Big Red Button was pitching IP "to publishers such as Sony, Konami, and Activision." By spring of the following year, Big Red Button landed an "unannounced major project with third-party publisher," which seems to be the title they are presently working on.
Big Red Button's recruitment copy describes the project as a "next-gen landmark AAA console project," and job openings hint at a cross-generation "character driven, 3rd person action" title with co-op gameplay and some sort of mobile integration. The Big Red Button copy also mentions the company is keen on "delivering authentic gaming experiences that are as fun to watch as they are to play," so perhaps the game is not too far removed from a cinematic action-adventure title like Uncharted?
Finally, a producer at the studio says the project has a "$19.9 million budget" with an estimated "34-month" production cycle and a present studio headcount of 28 people. Also, the domains itsasnowday.com and monstersurgeon.com—both registered in fall 2011—redirect to Big Red Button's site, though neither of those quite sounds like a name of a AAA action title
http://kotaku.com/5989192/amazons-potential-jump-into-cloud-gaming-and-other-secrets-from-the-world-of-video-games (http://kotaku.com/5989192/amazons-potential-jump-into-cloud-gaming-and-other-secrets-from-the-world-of-video-games)
Couple that with Sonic: Lost World having a port to one of the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 in January 2013 and we know that they had a tech demo ready for March 2013 so Sonic Boom having the other versions up and running was a real possibility.
-
The problem was the game was already getting bad press from all the media outlets which forced SEGA to change it into a Wii only title. And whilst I did enjoy the sequels, the changes in the basic gameplay told me Iizuka just didn't get what made the original NiGHTS great, something he continues to struggle with Sonic too.
This isn't what happened at all. JoD was never announced as a multiplat nor, I believe, has Sega ever publicly acknowledged that it was intended to be. The information was leaked sometime in 2008 (after JoD's release) by a now-former Sega employee who ran a little-known anonymous blog. Presumably, the game was shifted to the Wii because management felt it would be more at home on that console and capitalize on its run-away success. The leak was able to be verified in part because of additional information within that same post about the then unreleased Sonic Unleashed. The man was later identified (I forget who he was, but if I dug hard enough I could turn it up), and he deleted his blog. Last time I checked it was still accessible through archive.org. The point here is that no one outside of Sega knew for sure that JoD was intended for any console other than the Wii until around 2009, meaning the press definitely didn't know in 2007 prior to its release. If you can find a 2007 article criticizing a non-Wii version of the game, I'll relent, but I'm confident that you won't.
Even with the bugs the game is terrible. Unimaginative boss fights, poor level designs, auto-sections all over the place, the game had very basic problems and giving it an extended development time would not solve the issues unless scraping the entire game was part of the plan.
Rushed development could've factored into it too.
But the number of critics who do are few and far between, most seem to be of the opinion the series is the pinnacle of gaming. I've never been keen on Mario but I cannot say Nintendo's platformer series is not one of the most polished in the industry so working on the same IP again and again should not force the sloppy mistakes Sonic Team kept making from 2003 - 2009.
They're still regurgitating a lot of the same ideas again and again. Super Paper Mario basically found its way into the new Zelda on 3DS, which itself reuses the exact same overworld from the very first game in the series. And while on the subject of Zelda, how about Skyward Sword? Tons of redundant quests/missions just for the sake of padding things out. Extremely disappointing game.
-
http://kotaku.com/5989192/amazons-potential-jump-into-cloud-gaming-and-other-secrets-from-the-world-of-video-games (http://kotaku.com/5989192/amazons-potential-jump-into-cloud-gaming-and-other-secrets-from-the-world-of-video-games)
Couple that with Sonic: Lost World having a port to one of the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 in January 2013 and we know that they had a tech demo ready for March 2013 so Sonic Boom having the other versions up and running was a real possibility.
Sure, but to be fair next gen could have referred to the wiiu. They have mentioned multiple times that they develop games before a platform has been locked down for the title. This doesn't mean there was a working 360/ps3 version of Boom or Lost World per se. There was probably never more than one version of either game, seeing as how everything is developed on PC (or whatever is handily available) anyway.
I will say that for a franchise overhaul of this caliber, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it be a console exclusive. You want this title to reach as many players as possible.
-
This isn't what happened at all. JoD was never announced as a multiplat nor, I believe, has Sega ever publicly acknowledged that it was intended to be. The information was leaked sometime in 2008 (after JoD's release) by a now-former Sega employee who ran a little-known anonymous blog. Presumably, the game was shifted to the Wii because management felt it would be more at home on that console and capitalize on its run-away success. The leak was able to be verified in part because of additional information within that same post about the then unreleased Sonic Unleashed. The man was later identified (I forget who he was, but if I dug hard enough I could turn it up), and he deleted his blog. Last time I checked it was still accessible through archive.org. The point here is that no one outside of Sega knew for sure that JoD was intended for any console other than the Wii until around 2009, meaning the press definitely didn't know in 2007 prior to its release. If you can find a 2007 article criticizing a non-Wii version of the game, I'll relent, but I'm confident that you won't.
The game was shown in a close door presentation and was revealed in the very same blog that you're talking about, he even mentioned how disappointed he was with the HD version.
Rushed development could've factored into it too.
Most games are developed within two years, Sonic the Hedgehog had a three year development cycle (Development started straight after Sonic Heroes according to the leaked script Sonic Retro obtained) The schedule wasn't the issue but the people behind the project.
They're still regurgitating a lot of the same ideas again and again. Super Paper Mario basically found its way into the new Zelda on 3DS, which itself reuses the exact same overworld from the very first game in the series. And while on the subject of Zelda, how about Skyward Sword? Tons of redundant quests/missions just for the sake of padding things out. Extremely disappointing game.
I'm not a fan of Nintendo in general but whilst you can find their games disappointing, this isn't true for the most gamers or critics alike. But as I said, they have worked on the same franchise for years (Along wiith Bungie, Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio etc) and they still manage to churn out quality game after quality game. Really the issue for Sonic Team wasn't they were working on the same franchise (Which was going downhill since Sonic & Knuckles despite working on other titles) but the personal involved.
-
Sure, but to be fair next gen could have referred to the wiiu. They have mentioned multiple times that they develop games before a platform has been locked down for the title. This doesn't mean there was a working 360/ps3 version of Boom or Lost World per se. There was probably never more than one version of either game, seeing as how everything is developed on PC (or whatever is handily available) anyway.
I will say that for a franchise overhaul of this caliber, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it be a console exclusive. You want this title to reach as many players as possible.
I can't speak of Sonic Boom, but I know from the same person that told me about Sonic: Lost World (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=40.msg55042#msg55042) before SEGA showed off any gameplay that there was infact a non-Nintendo HD version of Sonic: Lost World in development as late as January 2013.
I'm just assuming they were readying Sonic Boom for multiple platforms originally but got locked down in the exclusive contract, wither other version existed is another point entirely, that was speculation on my part. But the intention does seem to be there that they wanted it to be as big as possible.
-
I can't speak of Sonic Boom, but I know from the same person that told me about Sonic: Lost World (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=40.msg55042#msg55042) before SEGA showed off any gameplay that there was infact a non-Nintendo HD version of Sonic: Lost World in development as late as January 2013.
That's pretty fascinating. One could argue that the months up to the game's release were probably wasted on implementing wiiu pad wisp functionality, but that still wouldn't have left them much time to fix core problems with the games' level design. Still, would have been interesting to see the reception had it been multi platform. My instinct is to assume the reception would have been even harsher.
-
That's pretty fascinating. One could argue that the months up to the game's release were probably wasted on implementing wiiu pad wisp functionality, but that still wouldn't have left them much time to fix core problems with the games' level design. Still, would have been interesting to see the reception had it been multi platform. My instinct is to assume the reception would have been even harsher.
I do think so yes. The problem with Sonic Team is they would sometimes take on the extra hustle for no reason. The Werehog was an idea disliked by the Western branch of SEGA but Sonic Team kept with it whilst with Lost World they took it upon themselves to add the Wii U pad functionality despite the QA staff (Apparently, read this on GAF via a verified user) protesting against it.
Whatever it is, I think Sonic Team will merely be a "Good" studio with Iizuka at the helm and never great because they will continue with their own beliefs thinking they are hot shit and whatever idea they come up with is the greatest thing ever, rather than taking a step back and analyzing what works and what doesn't.
-
The game was shown in a close door presentation and was revealed in the very same blog that you're talking about, he even mentioned how disappointed he was with the HD version.
Found the blog post in question. It's actually from 2007. Seems we're going to have to split the difference on this.
On the game and Sonic Team's state/working conditions:
...work didn't even begin on this Wii version [of NiGHTS] until around Sept/Oct 2006 (up to that point it was being developed for X360/PS3 until those platforms were canned against Iizuka-san's wishes) and it's due out [December 2007]. Take into account the 4-6 week Nintendo submission time and you're basically talking about roughly a year's actual development (i.e. coding; not pre-production) time.
...[NiGHTS] only came about due to a combination of Iizuka-san's efforts and Sega's managers finally relenting and giving Sonic Team a brief break from the monotony of Sonic related development (e.g in Sonic Team USA's case Shadow The Hedgehog) - there is no genuine expectation from Sega's bosses that this title will perform well and thus they will spare little development time, thought and marketing spend on it.
I know how they work, and the (difficult) conditions they work under. I also know the aforementioned Iizuka-san, the director of this new NiGHTS game (who was also one of the leading creative forces behind the original NiGHTS). Knowing all this, I am still not hopeful (not, I should clarify, for any lack of faith in Iizuka-san's talent and commitment, neither of which are in question; but rather because of the environment and conditions he has been forced to work in on this project).
Sonic Team managed to keep its name (at least externally for marketing reasons) and position thanks to the efforts (and in no small part the massive ego) of Yuji Naka. But this move was what trapped the team in a Sonic-filled purgatory, and ultimately led to Naka's departure in 2006. Instead of using the re-structuring for good Sonic Team became complacent slaves of their earlier successes. Their primary goal now is purely business driven: to please the managing directors wth good ROIs; this is not so abnormal - it is a business after all - but they leave little room for creativity and originality in their particular brand of working practices.
On an early demo at the Tokyo Game Show:
Iizuka-san originally only wanted to make NiGHTS 2 on the X360 and PS3 - his vision for the game, which was a pretty grand one, could only be done on those platforms he argued and development started on them, even though the actual GDD was still being fleshed out and a Wii version was being considered.
By the time of TGS last year there were playable ROMS on X360 and the general response to the code was not positive. At this stage the directors questioned the X360/PS3 SKUs and suggested that Wii may be a better choice. Iizuka-san was against this because it would mean reigning in certain aspects of his design, but nonetheless Sega Studio USA (AKA Sonic Team USA) drew up a comparison doc for Wii and X360/PS3 version pros and cons. The summary of this was that they could produce a quick Wii version by FYO8 (2007) and then go onto a different version of NiGHTS 2 on X360/PS3 for FY09 (2008). By different I mean, different like Sonic The Hedgehog on X360/PS3 was a completely different title than Sonic Wii.
-
Not sure I should even sympathise though, a lot of the issues that Sonic Team have faced were brought on by themselves and not just SEGA's corporate structure. Although a year's development time is rough, as I pointed out significant changes to just the core gameplay of the NiGHTS stages tell me Iizuka didn't get what made NiGHTS brilliant and leaves me to be rather dubious if we would have gotten a quality production even if he had been allowed to go with his original vision. I also would not absolve Iizuka of all blame like the writer did when he is one of the core reasons Sonic Team went downhill so rapidly.
If we break it down case by case some of the things Sonic Team are mostly guilty of;
- The dark and mature nature the Sonic series was driven in was purely down to Sonic Team.
- The sloppy and glitch-prone gameplay was more down to the skill of the developer than rushed development schedule. Ryu Ga Gotoku for example has a yearly release but maintains mostly quality entries outside of OF THE END.
- Ignoring the misgivings of multiple gameplay elements introduced to the series post Adventure such as; auto movement with boost pads/grind rails, homing attack and the boost mechanic. Iizuka believed they were all great ideas and was shocked to find out some people disliked the homing attack.
- Padding their games to no end with poor extra gameplay types. Granted they finally learnt their lesson here.
And so on, you could place some issues at SEGA. Their lax policies on checking their development team's output quality is certainly one but Iizuka is guilty for a lot of problems too. Originality and creativity is fine but their products were broken at the very core. You could excuse NiGHTS as down to troubled development sure, but what about the changes in the basic gameplay? (A minor change no one asked for!) What about Shadow the Hedgehog? Billy Hatcher? Sonic Unleashed? Heroes? The personal behind the product is ultimately responsible.
-
Super Paper Mario basically found its way into the new Zelda on 3DS
Are you referring to the wall drawing thing?
which itself reuses the exact same overworld from the very first game in the series.
A Link to the Past is the third game in the series...
-
Look, you've obviously got your views on why they suck, and I've got mine. I'm not claiming that if Sega management stepped out of the way and gave Takashi Iizuka free rein to make whatever he wanted that it would turn out to be spectacular, but I certainly don't think he or Sonic Team are completely devoid of talent either. I feel the truth lies somewhere in between a middling development studio working on a product they don't really care for anymore (and, to be frank, isn't very well suited for 3D anyway) and the meddlesome and self-sabotaging corporate overlords who keep them locked up in the Sonic sweatshop.
Now I could keep going back and forth with you on this, but more than half this topic has been dedicated to doing just that, and I'm tired of it. So yeah, I'm done.
-
I've never said that Sonic Team are completely devoid of talent but they bring most of their troubles onto themsleves. They've made good games recently (Generations, Colours) they've made terrible ones (Black Knight) some just right in the middle (Sonic: Lost World) and they've forced their vision on other teams (Sonic 4) Whilst you can argue they might have lost their heart on working on the franchise I don't really see how that should excuse them from failing to produce a viable product, it is their job after all.
But we'll agree to disagree on this matter and move back onto Sonic Boom.
I really liked this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6uQyteDOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6uQyteDOU)
I'm hoping they keep these up to help promote the games, I always enjoy seeing stuff like this and never understood it why they didn't to promote people like Nagoshi or Kikuchi using video interviews. I'm hopeful the game will be good but it might be too far from what is Sonic for me, whatever the case the level design seems to finally suit the series.
PS. Buy them up SEGA if they're a talented bunch, just to get the bitter Sony fanboy tears regarding a Sly 5.
-
I understand the idea for the 'big knuckles' and 'Tails' redesigns. I just don't buy the sports tape.
-
Just really quick;
I do think so yes. The problem with Sonic Team is they would sometimes take on the extra hustle for no reason. The Werehog was an idea disliked by the Western branch of SEGA but Sonic Team kept with it whilst with Lost World they took it upon themselves to add the Wii U pad functionality despite the QA staff (Apparently, read this on GAF via a verified user) protesting against it.
It's been said in the past that the Werehog and similar gimmicks was partially because at the time (and still today, to a degree) Sega had a policy in place where every new Sonic game had to have a new "gimmick" that they could use to market the game. Hence, the Werehog, the Sword, the 2 Sonics, and the Wisps. So it's definitely a mix of both parties being at fault.
And to be fair to Iizuka, he had nothing to do with any of the Sonic games that came out after Shadow the Hedgehog (so he was not a part of Sonic '06, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic Unleashed, or Sonic and the Black Knight) up until the current era, though I agree that I think Sonic right now needs someone more visionary than him leading it.
-
I'm hoping they keep these up to help promote the games, I always enjoy seeing stuff like this and never understood it why they didn't to promote people like Nagoshi or Kikuchi using video interviews. I'm hopeful the game will be good but it might be too far from what is Sonic for me, whatever the case the level design seems to finally suit the series.
PS. Buy them up SEGA if they're a talented bunch, just to get the bitter Sony fanboy tears regarding a Sly 5.
I agree I found it a very interesting watch. Especially the part in which they're going back to the "action adventure" genre they've avoided since sonic sonic 06(lol for obvious reasons). This is what's bothered me about sonicteam's interpretations of reviews in general. Because I feel like there was never anything wrong with the concept while sonicteam seems to have put the blame on the concept instead of their terrible implementations of it. And when sonic rush and sonic and secret rings scored so well in comparison to, it was a simple sum for them and I really disagree with that way of (shallow) thinking. It did deliver 2 great games I guess. You know I liked sonic lost world but many people didn't seem to for reasons I can aknowledge.
My hopes is that this is going to be a great game so that sonicteam can discover that it can be done right and they take inspiration of what I get the impression to be a studio of great people. S
And lol at the sly comment. Why aren't these guys at sony anymore? I never knew untill this game's anouncement but I like what they've shown of the concept art. I can see a bit of crash bandicoot in there, in a good way. The expression art is great. Tails especially stands out for me :p
-
In my opinion, I just want Sonic to go back to his, Adventure state with Grounder and Scratch. Sonic did all kinds of crazies, stuff, so why not now? A perfect world where, everyday is another day, not another ring, or emerald hunt. I mean just like Sonic Cartoon, maybe once in awhile we have something, but not every other day is a search for that worm-hole to return to Samurai Jack hone. Sonic was innocent, like Conker, and then they kept making loop-holes that made no sense, but the loop-hole kept getting bigger.
Every Sonic game after Sonic Adventure is a Comic ( Manga ) Sonic, and has a bunch of stories pushing Sonic to his limit.
This new Sonic, which they are nicknaming Boom ( after the SATAM Animation ), is trying to reach consumers who long for simpler times, but wants Sonic to continue inside of that universe which is already built.
The sport tape is a distraction, from the oblong shape of Sonic and his friends. What is up with Amy Rose, she looks like she is even more hornier ( commercialized sexy ) then ever, except without the the super happy ecstasy in her eyes ( I guess they have to give something feminine ), only Sonic seems to be happy asides for tails. Speaking of add ons, what about the ones from the Sonic II boxart for tails. Tails looks like a blasted car salesman, while knuckles and Sonic together looks decent, they both could be decent height-ed. They are animals, for crying out loud.
But Sonic does not go on adventures, he can speed up to the point where he could glide thru the air.
I will admit, all of these add-ons, a fan does not need. So now the fan base is so stupid, not to know that Tails, is into electronics, and stuff, knuckles is tuff, and Amy Rose is after Sonic.
They ruined her. Amy is not a strong and independent woman. She is not a lesbian. She is not a neo-fem-nazi, who is going crazy over this and that. She is just sonic biggest fan, and admires him near and far, and wants to have his children, and do all kinds of insane stuff with him. She is Mira from "Family Matters'. The hammer is just her "gun in the purse" bit, to make her equal in combat, since she is not like Sonic, and do all of these amazing things. She is not Dot, Maxx's Jungle Queen, or Princess Leia. She just idolize Sonic like how girls idolize Elivis, and Michael Jackson, Robb Lowe, and sadly enough Justin Beiber ( yuck ewwhh ). I will admit, among the five characters they did preserve her a big, but otherwise no. Damsel in distress.....
Knuckles is a knuckles head. I mean he is being portrayed as an islander or even commercialized Jamaican identity ( Angel Island ), he has a cowboy hat ( which you can find many people in the west indies wearing ). Making him bigger does not really change the fact that they took away his uniqueness and gave him weaknesses. Knuckles is strong, and not too bright, but we all ready know this, heck he stopped Sonic in his tracks in Sonic Three.
Lets be honest, what is wrong with Sonic? Sonic keeps jumping consoles. That is it, and everybody who does not own the game or console bitches because they do not own it. I could go on to flaws of the games, stories, and characters but the reality is the formula that made Sonic work, was Sega having a game system, to put him on. They make Sonic bad on purpose.
Making the characters age, is what they did wrong.
Everybody loves the characters, Nobody hates the characters at all, but seriously Amy and that "Gun" in her hand, while Knuckles is dependent without his muscles, and Tails has his wrench. Real nice, you just created Sonic the ghost busters. Everybody has a power pack, everybody has a weapon on them.
Sooooooodasa.......they are going to make the game into an J-RPG, an Action game, an "Beyond Good and Evil", with a bunch of logical environments, that does not seem too far fetch ( like the god forsaken, missiles on the top of buildings, or the highways the loop-d-loop ). Beyond Good and Evil,
where you can drive into the atmosphere then back on land, go inside of your house get some sleep, drive around a highway, and then enter a building, go down the sewers, get drifted out. In general making Sonic inside BGE, world but try to make us think of Mobius.
Tv series comedy...................... Ha ha ha they mean to say Cartoon but cartoon is an evil word for people who speaka Animemangakagaka, so he says comedy. CGI Reboot, Transformers Beast war, Donkey Kong Country, Viva Pinata.
They make Robotnik sound cheap and dumber then the scientist on "Mystery Science teather 3000". I miss the cartoonish Robotnik from Cartoon. He was super bad. Alternate dimensions? Alternate dimensions? Alternate dimensions? is that the excuse? Robotnik took over and is fighting his less eviler self? So is this going to be like GI Joe, or X-men, one with the good Sonic characters, while the other with the evil sonic characters??? Robo-Sonic, Robo-Amy, Robo-Tails, Robo-Knuckles???
I like the fat dumb angry Robotnik, from the Cartoon, not the stupid speaking one, who is from the Japanimtion.
Oh wow, robotnik killed an E-series wanna be robot.......and Knuckles whip cream fillingggg will shoot out............................................He lives on an island, with a built in theme park, that flaots around, why would that make any sense at all??? Sonic is going to argue with Robotnik about names...........okay I like that been done.
What I see is a bunch of English folks ( westerners whatever ) doing what Capcom Europe did to Maximo ( Ghouls and Goblins ). They are releasing a CGI animation, that has no logic, and making a game that has no logic with the whole series. They updated the characters with logic,.
I see a terrible CGI waiting to occur, with what could be a decent game. That is it. Knickles( ha ha Nickles ) doing the Mario climb, Amy Rose using her "Gun" in all kinds of weird ways, and Tails being in the background. Sonic and knuckles are too tall, and while not bad looking, they are like fan made creations. They are not bad but come on.
The year of Sonic? The year of Sonic? 2006 ws the year of Sonic and come on 2014. Sonic always had a two watch, or radio, but not all the time. Eggman removing his chair also is weaker. So this game is sly cooper + Crash Bandicoot? So Enchidas are prehistoric Hedgehogs?
Finally Robotnik has animal Robots, but now they are just animals and not just robots.
-
Hello NPC characters: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54778198/c33c661f297644838059bdafe3ea8574-bbbaedcadd6143edb9c188cefdeb92ac-6.jpg
-
Is that the Australian one from New Venture of Allah?
-
Wow. Interesting...
-
Is that the Australian one from New Venture of Allah?
Your comment makes no sense, at all.
Allah is the word god in Arabic. When you say "Allah you are saying god", and all these religions are the same god, but they slightly different ideas. Jihad is another word for Holy, like when you cast Holy, or say Jihad Allah, Holy God.
Your comment is misfired, unless I am missing something.
-
Is that the Australian one from New Venture of Allah?
That's what I was thinking, she's even carrying a boomerang! A clear sign she has Australian DNA!
Anyway really like the art for this game but shame they don't have the same level of art for the baddies (and the poor ggraphics in some areas are a let down)
-
Your comment makes no sense, at all.
Allah is the word god in Arabic. When you say "Allah you are saying god", and all these religions are the same god, but they slightly different ideas. Jihad is another word for Holy, like when you cast Holy, or say Jihad Allah, Holy God.
Your comment is misfired, unless I am missing something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-1n2-pvOPk#t=30s
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-1n2-pvOPk#t=30s
The original jam 8)
-
The original jam 8)
I've never actually listened to that song outside of DS speakers. Sounds much better here! I used to hate it but it sounds nice here.
-
Marine looks interesting!
I wasn't a fan of her personality due to how annoying it was, but I liked the previous character design.
This looks more akin to what a Native Australian would look like, so I like this design too.
-
Aika the Raccoon. Only this time, not so much.
-
I have a feeling that this is going to be a very large game with how long it has been in development
-
I've spent more than 70 hours playing Sonic Adventure 2.
It could be considered a 'very large' game.
I'm not expecting Sonic Boom to be any bigger than Colors's 20-30hours. But let's wait 'till it releases...
-
Well a large game is one thing, but sonic adventure 2 exists only of 1/3 of a good game so I wish a consistently fun game wouldn't be too much to ask for.
I really missed a sonic game within an organic world(with a hubworld). Always loved that since sa1... even tho sonic unleashed had one as well it just didnt feel the same. For one you couldnt even run in the hub worlds and they were very small instead of the more open one in sa1. Mystic ruins was just all round fun to run around in imo... well except for the maze part lol.
-
I have a feeling that this is going to be a very large game with how long it has been in development
Urr, this is just how long a regular game is in development. :X
-
Adding to that, length of development does not equal the length of the game. Alien Isolation has been in development since 2008 but the game is around 10 hours long.
I'd imagine the majority of the development time is bulking up the studio.
-
Wait nvm. I was going with the thought that the cryengine reel was shown years ago. Seems it was only last year :s
-
New character revieled
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bozus5YIYAI1piP.png:large)
-
And I've seen the darn Youtube video. The actress who plays Sticks is a VA veteran:
http://youtu.be/EsIvZ0lcYDM
The lines she says are just... wow.
-
And I've seen the darn Youtube video. The actress who plays Sticks is a VA veteran:
http://youtu.be/EsIvZ0lcYDM (http://youtu.be/EsIvZ0lcYDM)
The lines she says are just... wow.
Another fine contribution to Sonic's wonderful cast of friends. ::)
-
Yep, better my pitchfork and ma torch from the broom closet 'cause it's that time of the year again.
-
Yep, better my pitchfork and ma torch from the broom closet 'cause it's that time of the year again.
I gave up on Sonic a long time ago, so I really don't care. I just find the perpetual downward spiral amusing.
Credit to Naoto Oshima for creating a character so iconic that it's been able to endure despite 15 years of mostly crappy games.
-
The writers of My Little Pony is writing this thing??? Not people from the SEGA universe. However we are getting some of the voice actors from the recent games. The CGI is being done by a French company ( Canada, France....... Common Wealth, The EU ). That is real nice. From now on, when I purchase anything retaining to Sonic, I am going to be feeding them....real nice.
My thoughts on this Stiks. Also looking for ( Live ladies house ) scene of voice actresses, in an ( life ladies house ) scene or something along those lines. Seriously waste of voice actresses.
The one thing that hurts the most, is that they are using the words "Sonic Boom", for this, series.
They are only using it, to make SATAM fans think this is a comeback to talk about it. The next thing is how the excuse is going to be, that Sonic and his buddies all grew up. Perfect excuse in an western fictional studio. So all this time, "beach bunny chasing" Sonic on AOS was really a kid?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rf3ZSZqDSg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rf3ZSZqDSg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jkUgpsFLeM
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jkUgpsFLeM)
You see this, link, that is what Sticks is to this series. She is TinyToons/ Tazmania and lost world, rolled up into one. Yeah that is real nice, for SEGA to create a female character that is foolish and make everything work out for her, but if it was a male character they would surely make him fail.
In fact if you remember SATAM, then you will remember that episode about all the different characters they found living across the land. But for Sticks her boomerang specifically points to an Australian decent.
Why can't Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy just look like themselves???? That is my problem with Sticks, as a character. It does not make any real sense at all. She is shaped, and looks like Sonic, from the original series, but she is made out of AIR TIME, to waste time in the series. Oh look she lives inside of an cave, like the tree house in "Kids Next Door" or even "Adventure Time".
You know another problem? This is videogame world, and they are practically "Donkey Konging" the entire series, and think nobody will notice. Right now I notice that if sticks, was an 8-bit character, she would look so un exciting or even bland to look at. Why does she needs clothing, oh right everybody has clothing now??? Why isn't her foot wear a bright color, like green, yellow, fusha, or some other wild colors, why is she an animal wearing animal skins???
WHY IS SHE ANIMAL, WEARING ANIMAL SKIN?????
When little kids ( that we were once ) will see this thing, they will think ( oh Sonic was a kid back then ). Sonic was never a kid, Sonic was an older young adult and Tails was his little brother. Sonic is small animal in comparison to Robotnik and other human characters, that is why Sonic is small in size, because he is an animal, and that just made sense.
So when we do flash backs, of Sonic, are we going to see them as they were?
When Robo-Sonic or E-series appears, are they going to be morphed as well? Even SATAM had robo-Sonic. How else could they damage this thing.
Poor Knuckles, as well. Poor Knuckles because he was super strong and super tough, without having to be over sized. He does not need to be on steroids. He can fly, he can fly, he can fly and punch through walls. I mean, why? He was the Hybrid Sonic character that everybody loved, and they damn him into being an giant weight lifter?
And ( Life Ladies house ) Amy Rose. No really she sucks, she literally sucks. She is bland and just keeps getting blander.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnkdwbrLVJ4
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnkdwbrLVJ4)
No really, poor Knuckles , poor Knuckles. I mean he the better Sonic Character, and they turned him into that.
-
I don't know all about that but I hope she says this line or something related in Sonic Boom.
http://youtu.be/TsaRLW-iTmo
-
For those who can't read my writing. Make a little hum sound, you know pretend as if I was talking directly to you. Pretend if I was a Japanese person, since all westerners seems to worship anything related to them.
Keep this up and I'm issuing a warning.
-
I don't know all about that but I hope she says this line or something related in Sonic Boom.
Omgsh, they took the boys voice ( which is mostly done by a girls AKA Peter Pan ), and just slapped it on to a character that does not fit in, just to give the "actress" a job. Omgsh...... who's ( Live lady house ), did she have to ( Kirby ), in order to get this part. Working her way up the food chain obviously. Also you see the expressions on her face, when she is doing the voice, it looks like she is going in and out of a state of mind. I wish I had some Hollywould ( Predator face ) right about now. That is what they do, basically a bunch of ( Predator faces ).
However this is common, I guess since "Mrs Puff" is also done by an older actress, who is retired from the screen. I think she was popular back then, but she also plays the exact same part in both real life, and off-screen.
-
update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaY7XPc0VQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaY7XPc0VQA)
Not dissapointed cuz I knew what to expect.
-
Well I'm disappointed because it looks bad. Camera is way off, Sonic's non boost speed is even faster than usual, levels are too dark (Seriously what do Western platformers have against brighter lighting?) And the combat doesn't seem great.
Which is a shame as the platforming at least looks like it could have been fun :/
-
Video went private. I think they already noticed the backlash perhaps? Game looks far from done. Not sure if "done" is ever going to be good though.. Kind of shocked despite knowing not to expect much.
-
update with interview this time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaY7XPc0VQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaY7XPc0VQA)
-
Uhhh, I thought the whole point of this exercise was to do something different with Sonic. This looks like the same 'Run down a corridor packed with boosters, then grind a rail for a bit' we've been getting for the last few years. Only this looks somehow worse. Are they just using the shoulder buttons to change lanes or something?
So, now we've had two developers that generally make very good games attempt a Sonic game and churn out garbage? Sonic the Hedgehog is truly the IP of Darkness. No man can attempt to touch it without being tainted and twisted, unleashing upon the world a horrible beast that devours it's mother's good will at it's birth, and unleashes pain, suffering and bad reviews upon the earth.
The horror. The horror...
-
gamexplain video is back up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0tCCjYxSU4&list=UUfAPTv1LgeEWevG8X_6PUOQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0tCCjYxSU4&list=UUfAPTv1LgeEWevG8X_6PUOQ)
but without the video. replaced with screens. i get a feeling SEGA isn't happy about all the slow combat brawling footage that seems to dominate the game being released. Seems they are trying to hide it. based on the footage that's still up on youtube.
you can still listen to the guys impresssions, though. he talks about how its a really slow game, even slower then Sonic Lost World.
I saw both footage earlier and I do think the 3DS version looks fun though. I think the Wii u version is horrible looking, though.
-
They're bound to get this 3D Sonic thing right one of these days! ::)
-
They both looks really good for me. It is way to early to came up with conclusions but i got the felling that both will be very fun in my opinion. It seems that it will be, "Run sections" where i can not wait to try the new "Enerbeam" thing, "Platform sections" where the combat will be the base of those parts, and the "Boss fights" which i personally really like the ones that they show. Again is to early to came up with conclusion, i will wait to see more on the E3 but i had really like gameplays from both games so far.
PD: I also like he fact the the games have to differents names and differents stories.
-
"Platform sections" where the combat will be the base of those parts
So it's like the werehog.
-
Apart from the bosses which look like they have some character, everything looked pretty awful. Like a poor man's ratchet and clank all 4 one.
Hey uh so who's going to E3 this year? Anyone feel like meeting up?
-
So it's like the werehog.
They look similar in that way isnt? however i think that it will be much fun in this game because the combat as far as we know is more diverse in my opinion, plus it will have cooperative. I hope that it will not become repetitive because i believe that that was one of the cons in the "werehog levels". Beyond that i am not particulary worried, i expect to have a lot of joy with this game and i think i will have it.
-
The Wii U kinda looks good to me. While this seems to have some elements from previous Sonic games, they seem to be committed with the idea of making this an entirely seperate franchise.
It's basically SEGA doing with Sonic what Activision does with their Call of Duty brand. As in, two seperate branches of the same franchise.
And it seems that they are committed to making Sonic Boom as different from the OG Sonic franchise.
But I'm on the "wait and see"-camp right now. If nothing else, at least it's not rubbing me the wrong way as Sonic: Lost Worlds did.
-
I don't know if it's the video quality, but the movement of the camera just seems really choppy and janky. Especially during the speed section. Also I had assumed that this would be following more the Adventure style level design instead of Unleashed style. Wasn't that said in an interview somewhere? Not really liking how empty these sections are.
The combat sections ironically look better to me. At least there seems to be a little more interaction in them. (The platforming sections are just barren.) And I'm loving the spin-dash animations during the fights. Will have to wait and see how they play in a longer span of time though. Could get repetitive.
-
Unfortunatelly many people are complaining about this gameplay =/
I thought the game looks great in both versions but I'm the minority
-
If nothing else, at least it's not rubbing me the wrong way as Sonic: Lost Worlds did.
This is curious. What was it about SLW that rubbed you the wrong way that this title somehow avoids? I would imagine Boom, of all games would rub fans the wrong way.
-
i get a feeling SEGA isn't happy about all the slow combat brawling footage that seems to dominate the game being released. Seems they are trying to hide it. based on the footage that's still up on youtube.
I saw both footage earlier and I do think the 3DS version looks fun though. I think the Wii u version is horrible looking, though.
Actually, the only version they're not allowing gameplay footage of is the 3DS version, Wii U version seems to be fine seeing how sites like Polygon have video previews with the footage up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn_ex88TPDk
Also, that would be a terrible reason seeing how these b-rolls are sent to press for video previews like these. Besides that, cam gameplay from E3 will be up next week anyway. :V
Well I'm disappointed because it looks bad. Camera is way off, Sonic's non boost speed is even faster than usual, levels are too dark (Seriously what do Western platformers have against brighter lighting?) And the combat doesn't seem great.
Which is a shame as the platforming at least looks like it could have been fun :/
Camera could use some work, but seeing how Sonic doesn't have a boost in this game I don't see the problem. Also, there are brighter levels in the game. (there's even one shown off in the video!)
-
This is curious. What was it about SLW that rubbed you the wrong way that this title somehow avoids? I would imagine Boom, of all games would rub fans the wrong way.
I had my issues with Sonic: Lost World. The way the game played, with that Sonic X-Treme-esque asthetic. To me it's just didn't feel right.
-
hmm, duh..... I mean that was expected. It looks sorta like "Beyond Good and Evil" mixed with Sonic stages. I actually like it, and I am glad, that they took away some of the auto-functions ( like take the Sonic battles in Adventure 1, where hitting eggman, is the ultimate weak spot, and that one moment when your close enough to him, is the ultimate moment. In this game, they pretty show Sonic and friends gang banging him, like an childish street gang ( which is not bad ), but to make things worst, they also make the character weak as well. I mean omgsh, Robotnik finall makes an machine where Sonic is too short to reach the weak point............things like that, but of course we original SONIC fans, know that Sonic can literally glide in the air via spindash, or like an really fast bullet, with no logical boundaries, and do that.
You know what is funny? They are bigger, they can't just double jump or air jump. Or even something like the fact that Knuckles is giant ( like that guy from BGaE ), and he can break thru walls, so I really do not see the point of this, at all. Knuckles can also glide ( which he should still be able to do, because without gliding he is not Knuckles, he is like the NEW N64 Smash brothers Kirby ), and punch thru most walls, so my problem is what the hell?
You know what my biggest problems with all Sonic games? A lot of people forget that Robotnik is the one who sets up, all the springs, and unatural formations. The only logic from this is Angel Island, where all those things are traps made by and for Knuckles kind. So seeing Sonic using tools to transport is kind of odd, as these things should be one time things ( like in BGE ).
The game looks interesting, original, and I am so happy not to see another DOOMSDAY ZONE GBA boss run. The GBA has nothing but DOOMSDAY BOSSES, and to be funny about it, the second and first games have this ultimate boss, ( that nobody will know about, because getting the emeralds, or whatever seems confusing in the GBA games. Again, so happy not to see another DDZone chase, like Green, reedd, yello, blueee ( Sonic Colors ), or even the final battle in Sonic WiiU/NDS
-
Uhhh, I thought the whole point of this exercise was to do something different with Sonic. This looks like the same 'Run down a corridor packed with boosters, then grind a rail for a bit' we've been getting for the last few years. Only this looks somehow worse. Are they just using the shoulder buttons to change lanes or something?
So, now we've had two developers that generally make very good games attempt a Sonic game and churn out garbage? Sonic the Hedgehog is truly the IP of Darkness. No man can attempt to touch it without being tainted and twisted, unleashing upon the world a horrible beast that devours it's mother's good will at it's birth, and unleashes pain, suffering and bad reviews upon the earth.
The horror. The horror...
Don't be so over-dramatic. The problem with BioWare and this Big Red Button developer is that they have crammed Sonic into the framework of games they're use to making instead of making an actual Sonic game. Even Sonic Team tried to cram Sonic into the framework of Mario Galaxy last year with Lost World instead of just making a normal Sonic game.
This is the problem when it comes to developers doing "new things" with Sonic. Instead of taking what works with Sonic and expanding upon that, they just cram him into different games with distinctly non-Sonic mechanics.
Besides, Sumo Digital did the All-Stars Racing games and those turned out fun.
-
I'm just glad i'm not a Sonic fan anymore, so i can't be disappointed. This game looks horrible.
-
There just isn't a lot to be excited about. I don't think the boss fights are as novel or promising as they seem. I saw generous use of the Enerbeam. Is the evolution of Sonic boss fights to go whole hog on to, for lack of a better word, a new central gimmick?
There are some interesting ideas: I saw a two-player co-op segment where one character immobilized an enemy and then the other character wailed on them. That's sort of busted though I'm assuming there'll be some sort of limit to lasso time but I suppose that tactic doesn't work for crowds anyway. But enemies don't seem all that threatening, they almost never are anyway, so you can probably just mash buttons.
There's a lot going on here--on-rails speed, combat sections, methodical platforming/stage progression, you can get away with the first and third but I think adding the second into the mix could make this feel all over the place.
It's harder to ignore a comparison to Sonic Heroes, except Sonic Heroes from what I remember you could just blitz through.
-
I agree there isn't a lot to be excited about. It's just not very interesting looking. I do think the 3DS game looks fun though. I'm still hopeful the Wii U one can turn out alright, don't have very high hopes at the moment though. I mean, did SEGA really think the Wii U version looks fun in it's current state? Why would they release such bad footage? Why would they have the press play builds with tons of glitches and framerate issues? Is this the most recent build? Is Sonic Boom Wii U going to be kept behind closed doors at E3? So many questions to be answered. Suppose we will find out at E3.
This is me being more level headed, compared to the posts I made yesterday over reacting to everything. If you guys are interested, Gamexplain has a half hour long video discussing the time they spent playing Sonic Boom on the Wii U:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=926rQC1WfFw
-
I hope these big red button guys take the critisism at heart. If it ends up crap honestly SEGA is again to blame for gambling with its IP like that. Not cool man.
-
I hope these big red button guys take the critisism at heart. If it ends up crap honestly SEGA is again to blame for gambling with its IP like that. Not cool man.
It's not as if Sonic demands any respect these days anyway. Gambling Sonic's quality is like gambling a wooden nickel.
-
Well, did they really expect making Sonic look like Ty the Tasmanian Tiger was gonna work?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/62/Ty_the_Tasmanian_Tiger_Coverart.jpg)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXgXF2t1Psc
That dialogue..
-
Oh man. . .this is not good.
-
Wow................ I mean wow......it is like GEX all over again. That last bit, was taken from an fan fiction, where all the characters ganged up on Robotnik.
Big Blue
Who DAAAA mannnn peaceeee
Bring him down to our level
That and the over usage of those swinging things. I mean why do they have matching colors? Because tails, a kiddie fox is smart as an super mad scientist???
Anyways, Why Knuckles can't fly, and
WHY KNUCKLES CAN'T FLY?
......................
One thing I do love is the cartoonish nature of the enemies, and realistic movement.
The next thing I love, is how it sorta feels like "Beyond Good and Evil" BGE was probably the best original game to come out of the GCN/PS2/Dreamcast/X-box years. I don't mean to diss the Dreamcast because it has tons of great orginal games, like Illbleed, but I am talking about originalism, without fear and things like that.
-
Wow................ I mean wow......it is like GEX all over again.
I thought the exact same thing. It's like we've been flung back into the mid-'90s when tude levels among anthropomorphic mascot characters were at their peak (ie: they never shut the hell up).
-
The problem with Sonic is always the same. He is the fastest thing alive. I already solved that problem I just need the program effort to show it off.
if you have play "Beyond Good and Evil" from time to time, they have chattery between Shawny, and Pig, and whoever else is playing. This game does it too much.
If the game is truly replayable like BGE, it would make a nice game. But seriously, it is so un serious to be a replayed. IDK.
-
The problem with Sonic is always the same.
Are you serious? Sonic Boom is pretty different from previous Sonic games and looks more like a PS2 platformer. Besides that, Sonic Team has changed up the gameplay with Sonic games all the time. With Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed etc.
EDIT: Actually I just realized who I'm arguing with here. Nevermind.
-
well the 3DS version at least looks like it has a lot of exploration options and fun things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1eWrczlgNE
not bad!
-
I like the reference to Tails Adventures with the Sea Fox making an appearance. Also, apparently they reference Sonic Rivals with the races, and Metal Sonic even appears!
-
So I played the demo at e3 today and have some thoughts
wiiu version:
-camera was kind of jerky and jarring
-characters wouldn't shut up but you can kind of tune it out
-combat isn't so fun, context sensitive attacks based on your position would help. Or team attacks that happen when you are both whaling on an enemy
-no frame rate problems or glitches in my play-through
-the game is about exploration and combat.
bottom line: Not as horrendous as expected. About as enjoyable as a Lego video game so if you can turn your brain off, it might be worth picking up. Puzzles were kind of fun.
3DS version:
-definitely the better of the two
-very floaty
-odd that everyone has a homing attack but probably necessary
-loved having all 4 characters at my disposal to explore with
-giving knuckles the drill whisp power was a stroke of brilliance.
-looked quite nice in its native format
bottom line:
a good to solid experience so far that doesn't really feel like a sonic game (other than some boost pads and homing attacks) but seems totally acceptable.
-
Radrappy, Nux and Shigs are at E3! You should totally hang out and talk Sonic at a seedy LA bar.
--
As for my thoughts on Boom, while I've not played it yet, I'm leaning towards the positive with a few negatives.
+ I like the emphasis on characters and story, especially with the TV series tie-in
+ Aside from Knuckles, I like the designs. Eggman is probably my favorite incarnation of the character next to AoStH and the classics
+ Glad the 3DS and Wii U versions are not the same game in the same way that Lost World was. I don't like retreading the same story and stage tropes, even if gameplay is different.
+ Playing as Knuckles and Amy again will be fun, as will be a 3D Tails
+Character animation looks good in the game
+ 3DS version looks like it has a lot of content, I'm actually okay with longer stages as long as they keep my interest
+ Richard Jacques doing the 3DS music!!!
- Lyric seems to be kind of a lame new baddie, but maybe he'll surprise us given we haven't learned much about him
- Wii U version looks to be a typical action/adventure game not unlike a TT Lego game or a PS2 platformer
- The speed sections of the Wii U version look bad compared to what Sonic Team has achieved over the years
- Too much talking during stages
-
Radrappy, Nux and Shigs are at E3! You should totally hang out and talk Sonic at a seedy LA bar.
haha I would love to! If they want to PM me, we could go grab a beer. I only had time enough at lunch to go play sonic boom, play splatoon, see miyamoto walking around with his posse, and then had to leave.
-
I'm gonna be honest. I have stopped caring about sonic's origin and essence whatever since they already ruined what I cherished the most. So I can just look at the game now as a non fanboy and from a gameplay standpoint it looks like it could be a pretty cool adventure game. My main gripes from the footages have been the visuals and awful dialogue.
BTW, Is it true that the game looked better on the showfloor?
edit: SEGA = sonic
-
BTW, Is it true that the game looked better on the showfloor?
It varied from environment to environment. Some things looked great (the chase bit with the security spider boss with amy and sonic) and some things looked pretty damn bad (the ground textures and environment for the knuckles/sonic level).
-
Was just gonna ask you about gameplay but then I just saw your impressions in the previous page. Saddening to read all my worries confirmed. The enthusiasm in this video makes no sense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khL_efXNspw
-
Wow. nuckles is in that video! in the background
and of course they are going to be enthusiastic, it's a SEGA video about a product they are putting out. They aren't going to be dull and boring.
check out this video, this guy tears apart the game right infront of stephen frost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33tKYRxc50&feature=player_detailpage#t=111
if you click the link it will bring you directly to the part rather then just watching the whole video, unless you want to watch the whole video.
-
Wow. nuckles is in that video! in the background
and of course they are going to be enthusiastic, it's a SEGA video about a product they are putting out. They aren't going to be dull and boring.
check out this video, this guy tears apart the game right infront of stephen frost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33tKYRxc50&feature=player_detailpage#t=111
if you click the link it will bring you directly to the part rather then just watching the whole video, unless you want to watch the whole video.
That was a bit awkward. You should really be careful at these events. There's a good chance the creators are walking around trying to hear feedback.
Then again, maybe this is something that needed to be heard.
-
Wow. nuckles is in that video! in the background
and of course they are going to be enthusiastic, it's a SEGA video about a product they are putting out. They aren't going to be dull and boring.
check out this video, this guy tears apart the game right infront of stephen frost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33tKYRxc50&feature=player_detailpage#t=111
if you click the link it will bring you directly to the part rather then just watching the whole video, unless you want to watch the whole video.
Dang, well it's a E3 demo. They'll probably work on the bugs before the game hits stores in November. I've watched some of the cutscenes that we're uploaded on YouTube, the cartoonish comedy really stands out.
My favorite part has to be when Knuckles threatens to knock out Sonic one day after making his witty comment.
-
That was a bit awkward. You should really be careful at these events. There's a good chance the creators are walking around trying to hear feedback.
Then again, maybe this is something that needed to be heard.
nah. I don't find it awkward so much as messed up. The reviewer was pretty flippant and likely didn't care if he was heard or not or might have found it funny if he was heard (Stephen Frost could have been near him even when we don't see him on camera.) The whole thing was deliberate, talking smack in the booth.
I'm still not excited for this game partially because of what he says, but if he wanted to trash it, by all means go ahead and do it somewhere else. but if he wanted to be more constructive go to Sega and talk about it.
-
Well, wow that was two interesting interviews. The first one was official people that was on the team, and the second one, was a youtubereviewer. While I am kinda against negative reviews, their was one thing that is really important, that nobody fails to mention.
CAN KNUCKLES FLY/GLIDE AROUND????????? that was probably the only good thing about Knuckles at all, You know being able to fly around, dig through any surface, and bash through walls. Knuckles even took Sonic out of his Super Sonic form, in S3. Then their is Hyper Knuckles.......Bottom-llne, will this game have Super Sonic? Hyper Tails? Hyper Knuckles?
Why does tails summon a little robot?, why not little birds?
However another question got answered. Is this another version of DK64? Apparently yes, Sonic runs slow
The earlier review, at the 3:00 that guy just ruins the showcase, going on about the animation. I am not against anybodies speaking voice, but seriously, that was a bit too flowery for anybody talking about Sonic. I do not mean to discriminate, but we just lost a huge chunk of the Sonic fan base. I mean, we got a bunch of big mouth women, being paid to strech their Orbiculars, and now a that person. Poor kids, and poor Sonic. Original Sonic fans are out of the loop. The official review hurts the game and the animation even more.
What is even more funnier is how ProJared, was doing his thing, and in the background their was like two people having a little argument/convesation about something. Do they look like Sonic fans?
They look like murderers to me. Then that one guy from the E3 review, was like doing something, and then moved towards him? It was funny because he was dissing, the new Sonic game, and he was just inside an interview. Again.
WHY CAN"T KNUCKLES FLY? Why do we have this extra midget 4th wheel character. That does not belong, aside for her size being abused as being a child??? Seriously Sonic was and is a teenaged area of persona, Tails is his little Little Brother sidekick.
They ruined the game for everybody, with this character. She lives in the blasted Jungle, so she should be big as them, not be like "Oh well she is younger, so she is small and undeveloped"...Nope, no, lame excuses.
Just by saying, the game has the laser ropes, ruined it for me. Take away the ropes, and special combo moves ( this is not "Holy Sword of Mana" ), and make them the correct size. I could understand, why they renamed, the game from Sonic Boom to Sonic Toon. speaking of which.
Toon boom........... it rymes, and it is an animation FLASH handicap program
-
The earlier review, at the 3:00 we see some Non-heterosexual, going on about the animation. I am not against anybodies speaking voice, but seriously, that was a bit too flowerly for a videogame person. I mean, we got a bunch of big mouth women, being paid to waste time, and now a non-heterosexual. I mean seriously, poor kids, that we were.
Dude, none of your posts make much sense at all, but this crosses the line... someone's speaking voice, someone's sexuality or perceived sexuality, it's none of your business and if you can't come up with something constructive to say about the substance of what another person is communicating, just keep your crazy-ass thoughts to yourself.
-
RegalSin, consider this a warning. Think before posting, we don't put up with insulting people based on gender or sexual orientation, even if it's not directed at a user, it's not right. You're on a 48 hour ban.
-
The earlier review, at the 3:00 we see some Non-heterosexual, going on about the animation. I am not against anybodies speaking voice, but seriously, that was a bit too flowerly for a videogame person. I mean, we got a bunch of big mouth women, being paid to waste time, and now a non-heterosexual. I mean seriously, poor kids, that we were.
Some sonic fans...really...
Hey kid one thing you should realize about the hollywood industy....a lot of gay people work there...so do a lot of asians...and blacks...and women..and in case you didn't know..whites as well! Shocking isn't it?
And in the good old days of cartoons...there were just as many gay people voicing cartoons as there are now. The difference is that no one knew or cared about them because people behind the cartoon voices weren't exposed unless you were Mel Blanc. Nowadays everyone knows who is who in that industry because you have people interviewing them, listing their credits, putting them on video so people like you can criticize whether the guy's sexuality will affect the voice of the character.Gimmie a break...puhleeze... It doesn't matter. What should matter is if the cartoon is good or not. that's all i care about...And most likely what many other sonic fans will care about in the long run.
-
http://www.vgstations.com/en/news/item/1150-sonic-boom-was-the-worst-sonic-game-i-ve-ever-played.html
Another severely negative article. No press is bad press right?
-
Uh, sorry but Sonic '06 cannot be beat.
-
Sonic 06 is a broken mess with awful artstyle, but not gonna lie that once loadtimes were reduced with the harddrive install update on 360, I actually quite enjoyed it. If sonic boom ends up worse than it wouldnt be the first time a polished sonic game was worse *points to sonic and the black knight.
-
To my knowledge this is the first time Sega has tied a cartoon with a Sonic game specifically. I can't add SONIC X since that came after the ADVENTURE series and neither can i add STAS game since it never came out. Either way they're risking a lot so the game itself has to be good for their sakes.....oh well there's always the movie i suppose...
-
The original AOSTHH Cartoon = Sonic 1+2, including many things that was featured in the videogames itself. Including the plane, Pinball zone, Stone feat, Special Zone, Robotnik Bots ( whatever they are called ), and even featured items from the games itself. Even the original ( and true ) Sonic-BOOM animation = Sonic CD, featured the UFO, Sally, Chemical plant zone, Knuckles, Beatniks ( that is what they are called ?? ). Sonic X = GBA Sonic + SA1+2+X.
Question? Is this an really long episode of the Sonic-ToonBoom ( ha that is a product ), or is this the actual product??? I would think this would be the really big question on peoples skull, but somehow I feel they are just making the game based off the show to market everything. So far I have yet to see any footage eof the lasers-ropes being used in the show itself, but the game???
-
The original AOSTHH Cartoon = Sonic 1+2, including many things that was featured in the videogames itself. Including the plane, Pinball zone, Stone feat, Special Zone, Robotnik Bots ( whatever they are called ), and even featured items from the games itself. Even the original ( and true ) Sonic-BOOM animation = Sonic CD, featured the UFO, Sally, Chemical plant zone, Knuckles, Beatniks ( that is what they are called ?? ). Sonic X = GBA Sonic + SA1+2+X.
Question? Is this an really long episode of the Sonic-ToonBoom ( ha that is a product ), or is this the actual product??? I would think this would be the really big question on peoples skull, but somehow I feel they are just making the game based off the show to market everything. So far I have yet to see any footage eof the lasers-ropes being used in the show itself, but the game???
Of course the cartoons are going to include elements from the games. Its not rocket science they will do that. But those cartoons/anime weren't direct tie ins. They didn't share the SAME storyline as the games. SONIC BOOM is a direct tie in as the cartoon and game are developed in conjunction to each other.
-
Does that mean I have to get all the Videos of SONICTOON, in order to know the complete series of events? That is basically the selling point ( or whatever facist corperate word is ) you are giving me to go on. When we had AOSTH, it might have been random, but everything was there, and even SONIC - X, everything was their as well. So far it just looks the same, and the main selling point is not really the game. If it was, they wouldn't have TOONED Sonic, and just keep to basics.
Again, it is not an opinion, the people in the writing department, including the art department does not care about Sonic as much. Sega just decided to dump everything, not for the sake of restarting anything, but for the sake of ending the anti-Sonic fan nonsense.
Another way I see it, is they could keep viewers occupied, until the game is finished, or vice versa. Just to make things worst, unlike back then, when the photogenic artist did not respect the videogames, THEY could now work side by side with the exact 3d files.
Okay I am out of this topic until anymore news, or etc
-
This game kind of looks a bit shit... The cartoon seems pretty good though from the trailer the jokes aren't bad. I always thought the Sonic series should be more of a comedy, I mean the early games were full of great parody... Super Sonic, The 'Death Egg' I think that stuff got lost along the way.
-
This game kind of looks a bit shit... The cartoon seems pretty good though from the trailer the jokes aren't bad. I always thought the Sonic series should be more of a comedy, I mean the early games were full of great parody... Super Sonic, The 'Death Egg' I think that stuff got lost along the way.
As much as I didn't enjoy Sonic Colours, I did greatly enjoy the way it brought some good old humour back to the Sonic series, I agree with you 100%.
-
Does that mean I have to get all the Videos of SONICTOON, in order to know the complete series of events? That is basically the selling point ( or whatever facist corperate word is ) you are giving me to go on. Back then, when we had AOSTH, it might have been random, but everything was their, and even SONIC - X, everything was their as well. So far it just looks the same, and the main selling point is not really the game. If it was, they wouldn't have TOONED Sonic, and just keep to basics.
Again, it is not an opinion, the people in the writing department, including the art department does not care about Sonic as much. Sega just decided to dump everything, not for the sake of restarting anything, but for the sake of ending the anti-Sonic fan nonsense.
Another way I see it, is they could keep viewers occupied, until the game is finished, or vice versa. Just to make things worst, unlike back then, when the photogenic artist did not respect the videogames, THEY could now work side by side with the exact 3d files.
Okay I am out of this topic until anymore news, or etc
You do have an option. Buy the game or watch the toon for free. See, not hard is it? Now calm down and take your pills, doctor's orders...
-
This game kind of looks a bit shit... The cartoon seems pretty good though from the trailer the jokes aren't bad. I always thought the Sonic series should be more of a comedy, I mean the early games were full of great parody... Super Sonic, The 'Death Egg' I think that stuff got lost along the way.
Suprised no one has been talking about the upcoming movie yet....which i'm dreading....
-
That is why people should just ignore the whole thing to begin with. We want Sonic back, but it is just Hollywood ( people against videogames, because it is not theater ) sapping the funds from our pockets while, they vote down our rights in secrecy. No, no, no in no way I am going to fund some frenchie, and their diabolical plot to steal money from game consumers.
That is like thousands, and probably millions of dollars being thrown away from, what should have been a comeback, to what is a laughing stock of an CGI animation. Where is Princess Sally, where is Uncle Chuck, why is it only the four Sonic buddies, who's idea was it to make Sonic b's all EXTREME LOONEY TUNES. Remember EXTREME LOONEY TUNES, and EXTREME DINOSAURS? That is what this is, SUFAAAA EXTRRREEEMMMEE SONICCCAAA..
What ever happen to simplistic, random adventures, where Sonic and Tails would beat the dumbnicks, get captured a little, escape, and then they would enjoy a nice Chilly dog, while picking up some babes? Instead MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING VACUMMED..
-
No, no, no in no way I am going to fund some frenchie, and their diabolical plot to steal money from game consumers.
Refrain from bashing other cultures and make an attempt to make sense in your posts.
-
That is why people should just ignore the whole thing to begin with. We want Sonic back, but it is just Hollywood ( people against videogames, because it is not theater ) sapping the funds from our pockets while, they vote down our rights in secrecy. No, no, no in no way I am going to fund some frenchie, and their diabolical plot to steal money from game consumers.
That is like thousands, and probably millions of dollars being thrown away from, what should have been a comeback, to what is a laughing stock of an CGI animation. Where is Princess Sally, where is Uncle Chuck, why is it only the four Sonic buddies, who's idea was it to make Sonic b's all EXTREME LOONEY TUNES. Remember EXTREME LOONEY TUNES, and EXTREME DINOSAURS? That is what this is, SUFAAAA EXTRRREEEMMMEE SONICCCAAA..
What ever happen to simplistic, random adventures, where Sonic and Tails would beat the dumbnicks, get captured a little, escape, and then they would enjoy a nice Chilly dog, while picking up some babes? Instead MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING VACUMMED..
Sega doesn't really own Princess Sally or Uncle Chuck or whatever. they were created specifically for the Archie Comic and cartoon. Sega could still use them but they would have to pay money to use them. Chilli dog was an invention of the cartoon because the cartoon studios thought anthropomorphic talking animals who can speak street slang and like fast food was cool in the nineties. The cartoon came out during the peak of the whole TMN Turtles craze.
And as for french, well they have a much better attitude towards cartoons than most of the english speaking countries have. They were showing japanese anime shows (all the proper ones and classics) during the time and hardly uncut when they stopped showing them in the states and UK. So while we had to put up with crap like Robotech, they were getting stuff like Lupin Devil man and gundam which they showed in the late seventies to early eighties so they were already ahead of us. Not saying SONIC BOOM is going to great but if its shit its not because its made in france...
-
I still remember my friend being concerned that Sonic's pig-friend was eating chilli dogs in a comic, as it seemed like cannibalism.
-
Well technically were all mammals so any of us eating meat of other milk producing animals are cannibals ourselves....
-
Sheesh, I just can't shake off the feeling of how this is basically SEGA's attempt at doing something like Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures.
-
It probably is Chaos master. I'm intrigued because it was the west that was the first to do an ongoing Sonic cartoon series in the form of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog and Sonic The Hedgehog The Saturday morning animated series. Like it was back then Sega of America really missed the boat to promote the Sega brand on kids TV by not doing a cartoon series of their other popular games like TOE JAM AND EARL, ECO and even ETERNAL CHAMPIONS. If Sega west had any sense they'd at least look into IP that they could turn into a cgi toon series that they control. SPIRAL KNIGHTS could easily be a candidate....
-
Agree with Spiral Knights, seems like a prime candidate.
Only possible problem is the game would quickly fill up with young kids. (Which is fine) but it would probably suddenly fill up with creepy internet pedos too and then Sega may have to take precautions to protect children like Nintendo do, which leads to really bare bone chat limitations like preset phrases.
-
Agree with Spiral Knights, seems like a prime candidate.
Only possible problem is the game would quickly fill up with young kids. (Which is fine) but it would probably suddenly fill up with creepy internet pedos too and then Sega may have to take precautions to protect children like Nintendo do, which leads to really bare bone chat limitations like preset phrases.
That's probably happens anyway..you think PSO on DC was free of freaks? Anyway at least you know Rolf Harris won't be playing the game...
-
Haha.
-
George and I interviewed Roger last night, and it was a great discussion! Boom-wise, some cool stuff was learned. Roger is approaching Sonic as the same character, but he feels that Sonic has a lot more room to let his personality show. We also talk about Generations, Alton Towers, and his early work with SEGA on Valkyria Chronicles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ABsC1IOG0
-
The scenario could be one of these..
The game and show will be shit and flops...
The game flops but the show is actually good and gets another season..and becomes the best cgi show since Reboot...
Both the game and show becomes a hit..bigger than they anticipated...because it actually sells big in both america and japan..
Game and show proves popular...Delivers Segasammy's finance sheet quota so they can show the shareholders that they're still making decent profit....six months later Sega announces another unrelated sonic game and Sonic boom is never heard from again...Most likely scenario...
-
My guess: Game is decent, but nowhere near what we expect from a Sonic game. The 3DS version ends up being better than the Wii U version. Future titles are unlikely.
TV show is fun in an Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog sort of way and ends up running for 2-3 seasons.
-
My guess: Game is decent, but nowhere near what we expect from a Sonic game. The 3DS version ends up being better than the Wii U version. Future titles are unlikely.
TV show is fun in an Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog sort of way and ends up running for 2-3 seasons.
Well it sounds like you're excited about this new cartoon. Ive got mixed feelings about it, its good to see a Sonic cartoon made in the states/west again but at its current state i'm not sure if it will be anygood. I'm hoping it will be successful and hopefully prompt them to create more cartoons based on Sega ip but made in the states. But the mindset seems to be Sonic an sonic only. Like i said SPIRAL KNIGHTS would make a good cartoon.
-
its good to see a Sonic cartoon made in the states/west again...
But it's made in France. Which really isn't a bad thing cause those people are pretty darn good at this animation thing. :V
-
Well it sounds like you're excited about this new cartoon.
I've always been a fan of the characters in a fun lighthearted atmosphere. I think the OVA was the perfect balance - mix of humor and very cool action scenes. AoStH is my personal favorite, despite the fact that it never really featured cool action scenes. Still, the Quest for the Chaos Emeralds time travel arc is one of my favorite pieces of Sonic animation. The animation was surprisingly good, it had the right mix of jokes and action. I was never a fan of SatAM, the pacing was off and the attempts at humor were cringy. I also wasn't a fan of the dark atmosphere. It felt like C-grade Don Bluth storytelling.
Underground is just garbage, though I do watch it from time to time just to laugh at how bad it was. When David of Sonic Retro stayed at my place for TooManyGames we watched an episode and it was a fun time for all the wrong reasons.
Sonic X was just weird. Like, it was so close to being a SEGASONIC cartoon, and then they fuck it up with Chris and awful animation. And not funny awful like AoStH, but obvious mistakes. They did attempt to adapt several games, though the end results were nowhere near as good as they could have been.
With Sonic Boom the TV show, we have a rebooted world, so no fear of a quasi-attempt to adapt the games like Sonic X, and it is nowhere near as big a change as SatAM or Underground. In fact, I'd argue it is more in line with AoStH and the OVA in the sense that Sonic and Tails (from what we've seen) are just chilling out and fighting Eggman. Eggman doesn't appear to be in control of the world like SatAM, he seems to be more in line with the games as a threat but not some super villain. My only concern is Knuckles, I'm hoping he is still guardian of the Chaos Emerald and that we see Angel Island. I'd be okay if he stumbles upon this role over the course of the show.
Also, the 11 minute length allows for stories that don't overstay their welcome. Most AoStH episodes could have easily been 11 minutes.
Anyway, consider me as cautiously optimistic, borderline excited for the show. As for the games, the Wii U one really hasn't impressed me yet, but I'm looking forward to the 3DS version which appears to have more replay value and length than Generations and Lost World 3DS.
-
I've always been a fan of the characters in a fun lighthearted atmosphere. I think the OVA was the perfect balance - mix of humor and very cool action scenes. AoStH is my personal favorite, despite the fact that it never really featured cool action scenes. Still, the Quest for the Chaos Emeralds time travel arc is one of my favorite pieces of Sonic animation. The animation was surprisingly good, it had the right mix of jokes and action. I was never a fan of SatAM, the pacing was off and the attempts at humor were cringy. I also wasn't a fan of the dark atmosphere. It felt like C-grade Don Bluth storytelling.
Underground is just garbage, though I do watch it from time to time just to laugh at how bad it was. When David of Sonic Retro stayed at my place for TooManyGames we watched an episode and it was a fun time for all the wrong reasons.
Sonic X was just weird. Like, it was so close to being a SEGASONIC cartoon, and then they fuck it up with Chris and awful animation. And not funny awful like AoStH, but obvious mistakes. They did attempt to adapt several games, though the end results were nowhere near as good as they could have been.
With Sonic Boom the TV show, we have a rebooted world, so no fear of a quasi-attempt to adapt the games like Sonic X, and it is nowhere near as big a change as SatAM or Underground. In fact, I'd argue it is more in line with AoStH and the OVA in the sense that Sonic and Tails (from what we've seen) are just chilling out and fighting Eggman. Eggman doesn't appear to be in control of the world like SatAM, he seems to be more in line with the games as a threat but not some super villain. My only concern is Knuckles, I'm hoping he is still guardian of the Chaos Emerald and that we see Angel Island. I'd be okay if he stumbles upon this role over the course of the show.
Also, the 11 minute length allows for stories that don't overstay their welcome. Most AoStH episodes could have easily been 11 minutes.
Anyway, consider me as cautiously optimistic, borderline excited for the show. As for the games, the Wii U one really hasn't impressed me yet, but I'm looking forward to the 3DS version which appears to have more replay value and length than Generations and Lost World 3DS.
I collect a lot of Sega products and for Sega anime and cartoon stuff its quite good to see how SONIC has progressed as a media character from the various shows from America and Japan. In that regard SONIC BOOM will make a perfect fit in that collection once it comes to DVD. Funny its going to be quite a good couple of years as well Sega media related when two Sega themed movies will be coming out in the shape of Sonic and Console wars as well as some of he obscure Sega japan anime stuff. I however not holding my breath on whether SB is going to be good or bad at this point its best just to wait and see if it fits your tastes and you personally enjoy it.
-
Here's some news..
Sonic the Hedgehog still running fast for Sega...from Fortune magazine
http://fortune.com/2014/07/09/sonic-the-hedgehog-sega/