SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Sharky on January 30, 2015, 05:37:19 am
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Very sad for those losing their jobs. I'm shocked there was 300 people IN SoA, what did they all do? I know PC and Tablet gamming is SEGAs strongest market these days, but it worries me they are moving so quickly away from retail. Perhaps it's not as bad as it sounds, I assumed most things Western were run from Sega Europe these days?
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LET THE FEAR MONGERING BEGIN!
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/2znv9u0.jpg)
Also, Sega was already on their way to becoming the new PopCap games. Wait until VF6 turns out to actually be a pachinko emulator for Smart Phones with micro transactions.
And it's not like they are moving 'quickly' from retail. Look how their retail output dropped so drastically in the recent years. Last year they released about three games, and only one of them was any good anyway.
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Also, Sega was already on their way to becoming the new PopCap games. Wait until VF6 turns out to actually be a pachinko emulator for Smart Phones with micro transactions.
And it's not like they are moving 'quickly' from retail. Look how their retail output dropped so drastically in the recent years. Last year they released about three games, and only one of them was any good anyway.
Know its a joke but the fighting games they operate in Japan in Arcades actually do well, so a real VF6 is a sure thing.
This concerns their arcade division as well tough.
They are launching two new products this year (Wonderland Wars and Chunnithm), so I wonder....
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Also, Sega was already on their way to becoming the new PopCap games. Wait until VF6 turns out to actually be a pachinko emulator for Smart Phones with micro transactions.
And it's not like they are moving 'quickly' from retail. Look how their retail output dropped so drastically in the recent years. Last year they released about three games, and only one of them was any good anyway.
Listen Mang, Sonic Boom wasn't a good game.
I know you're a woman hating monster, but Miku and Alien were EXCELLENT games.
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Listen Mang, Sonic Boom wasn't a good game.
I know you're a woman hating monster, but Miku and Alien were EXCELLENT games.
How could I forget about Miku... Know its a joke but the fighting games they operate in Japan in Arcades actually do well, so a real VF6 is a sure thing.
This concerns their arcade division as well tough.
They are launching two new products this year (Wonderland Wars and Chunnithm), so I wonder....
Yeah I feel like arcade divisions will be gutted as well, but I agree that VF6 is still very likely. It's a big property in Japan, and even if they feel they can make more money with mobile games, that franchise still needs to stay relevant if they want to exploit it. To do that, I think they realise they still need to make quality VF games to keep it in the public eye so we'll buy Combo Maniacs 2: Revenge of Lau.
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What I find odd is how people are surprised by this. I don't mean that in a "hur hur SEGA sucks and this was coming", but SEGA has made numerous promises for changes over the past few years - including focusing on fewer packaged releases and shifting focus to digital and PC. Also, SEGA of America's move makes sense given Atlus USA is in SoCal and SEGA wants to create movies, tv, and animation from classic IPs. What's in SoCal? Hollywood.
Also, it's not like SEGA Sammy are stepping in and ruining something that was working. SEGA of America has had problems for a while now, and perhaps these changes are a good thing.
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(http://image.gamer.ne.jp/news/2013/20130614/003895e988a796b7b532b3a120ab42ee1aa4/b/3.jpg)
I think this cabinet was a huge failure for Sega.
Usually these big machines are a huge investment and pretty much everyone of them by Sega has been a pretty good success.
I mean, they have been focusing on updating existing games and singular cabinets became less anyway...
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Hope those 300 (https://jackiepinkowitz.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/300-title-image-1.jpg) will get back on their feet
SEGA more and more is becoming your typical japanese gaming company nowadays. I guess the low effort/risk mobile business is producing more gains than the high cost/effort console. I mean ofcourse when SEGA has been driving a short term quick buck mentality with a lot of its franchises, they were destined to lose value in the long term with how careless they would handle them. Imho SEGA needs to keep doing what its doing and get rid of the things they're unlikely gonna use anymore. They can keep yakuza, phantasy star and miku whatever, but a lot of their cherished IP's are destined to be mistreaten by SEGA so imho they're not worth keeping for them. I mean IF anyone see's the benefit of it to buy, i'd really like it if SEGA just sold some of the IP's to other companies.
They should also try out phantasy star 0-2 on 3DS.
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What I find odd is how people are surprised by this. I don't mean that in a "hur hur SEGA sucks and this was coming", but SEGA has made numerous promises for changes over the past few years - including focusing on fewer packaged releases and shifting focus to digital and PC. Also, SEGA of America's move makes sense given Atlus USA is in SoCal and SEGA wants to create movies, tv, and animation from classic IPs. What's in SoCal? Hollywood.
Also, it's not like SEGA Sammy are stepping in and ruining something that was working. SEGA of America has had problems for a while now, and perhaps these changes are a good thing.
To us it makes sense, but to 99% of the gaming public this news is:
Sonic Boom failed! Nintendo is going to buy Sega!
Gearbox robbed Sega and now they are going to file for Bankruptcy!
Atlus is going to be destroyed again! Who will buy the Sonic IP? Platinum!?
Hope those 300 (https://jackiepinkowitz.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/300-title-image-1.jpg) will get back on their feet
O I am laffin.
EDIT: NeoGAF showing their usual Ninty Fanboy chops (they also seem to love Fatlus):
Damn, well Sega had a good run.
[/size]RIP in Peace, Sega.[/color]
[/size]Losing your job sucks but "early retirement" doesn't sound too bad. I am ready for a f2p mobile Total War and my Sonic moba.[/color]
[/size]The beginning of the end. Kinda insensitive but true.[/color]
[/size]Didn't expect to see Sega fall twice.[/color]
[/size]Nintendo should buy the rights to console Sonic games.[/color]
[/size]As long as Atlus is good...[/color]
[/size]The end times at SEGA have begun.[/color]
[/size]That said, other than Sonic, I can't think of anything else they release on console.[/color]
[/size]Why the hell did they have to go and buy Atlus?!?[/color]
[/size]Guys I am legit scared...[/color][/size]What the hell happens to Atlus? This kind of shit is exactly why I was almost dead inside when news broke of them buying Atlus...Please for the love of that is Shiva, Budda, Jesus, Moses, and Ra, PLEASE ATLUS BE OK!
I swear this is even worse than if they one day just went out of business.
Yeah, this is like watching you favorite uncle die.
This is just the first page too :afroman: :afroman: :afroman: [/color]
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All I see is a bunch of idiots running around pretending they know whats going behind the curtains at a company and predicting doom and gloom. Answer me this: When was the last game released by SOA that didn't bomb? So wouldn't giving this team less money/resources be a good thing?
Company of Heroes 2 doesn't count, it was well into development before SEGA got their hands on that team.
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All I see is a bunch of idiots running around pretending they know whats going behind the curtains at a company and predicting doom and gloom. Answer me this: When was the last game released by SOA that didn't bomb? So wouldn't giving this team less money/resources be a good thing?
Company of Heroes 2 doesn't count, it was well into development before SEGA got their hands on that team.
Also I believe they are closing distribution and publishing for retail packaged games, not development teams, right?
Just like Sega Australia where they replaced their distribution arm and outsourced to Five Star Games.
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The most tragic thing is that San Francisco is an iconic location for Sega.
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While I am sad to hear about this (especially the move from San Fransisco, but I assume the cost for that location in a general sense are ridiculously high), I guess I shouldn't be too surprised in a sense, the combination of many factors obviously lead to this including Boom's failure of a launch and the scrambling afterwards to fix it. I feel for those affected by the cuts and I honestly hope they can bounce back on their feet soon.
Like Sharky said, I'm also worried about the moving away from retail, I know this won't affect recent announcements but I'm thinking about future projects. I imagine if we want something to see a retail release (or even a release in the West at all), we may have to turn to major console makers like Sony more often for some assistance.
...I'm also not surprised at the reaction/comments (particularly those by NeoGAF), at all.
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Well I ran into an interresting comment in TSSZ...
SEGA will unveil its full restructuring business platform on February 12th a day before AOU. A full fledged press conference and press release will take place on that day.
Like I said, Sega is establishing two new divisions: Sega Networks Corporation,Inc and Sega Entertainment Corporation,Ltd Worldwide.
As for Sega of America, they are moving to L.A. Part of the deal is to set up a suite near Santa Ana,CA so that Sega Networks America can work closely with Hollywood studios and other partnership companies.
Which probably explains why the Orbi Yokohama brand is multi branded: https://trademarks.justia.com/855/17/orbi-85517210.html (https://trademarks.justia.com/855/17/orbi-85517210.html)
As for the Amusement Layoffs, I did some digging. It pertains mostly to the actual software R&D dept at Sega who’s Amusement resources are being moved to SEC,Ltd. The company is planning some major unveilings and surprises at AOU. PR and details shall also be disclosed at the Garage Kit Festival “Wonderful 2015″ In Tokyo next Sunday. Sega is using Hatsune Miku and Sega Hard Girls to promo.
As for PC, Sega has 2 new Total War games planned as well as a new Shinning Resonance Arcade game and Steam game planned.
Look out for the 12th?
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I don't believe that rumour. Although I could see Virtua Fighter 6 being announced then or later this year.
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TheRenaissance is an alt of a known Liar and Hoax perpetrator.
He's used the orbi trademarks to justify new Sega consoles for the past 6 years under the names of Zach Morris, SegaOrbi, MrSega ect...Looks like he's back again with change tactics.
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TheRenaissance is an alt of a known Liar and Hoax perpetrator.
He's used the orbi trademarks to justify new Sega consoles for the past 6 years under the names of Zach Morris, SegaOrbi, MrSega ect...Looks like he's back again with change tactics.
Oh...lol!
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Oh...lol!
Yea, a pretty big determined troll. He was the one behind the whole ringedge console in 2009 and kept pushing Orbi to be a new console until it was revealed to be a zoo lol.
Now he's on about Sega apparently having the financial power to screw and buy Sammy lol.
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Is Zack Morris still releasing Dreamcast 2?
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I don't believe that rumour. Although I could see Virtua Fighter 6 being announced then or later this year.
Agreed, I'm hoping it's revealed at the next AOU.
Sega will be there with a bunch of other games at least:
http://am-show.sega.jp/jaepo15/
Knowing Sega, the game will more likely be announced in Famitsu or Aracadia instead of at a show though.
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Is Zack Morris still releasing Dreamcast 2?
Totes.
Outfit with the PowerVR Virtual Reality Ray tracing GPU and a Power 9 8 Core 32 thread CPU for $399
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It's not happy news at all. =\
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Agreed, I'm hoping it's revealed at the next AOU.
Sega will be there with a bunch of other games at least:
http://am-show.sega.jp/jaepo15/ (http://am-show.sega.jp/jaepo15/)
Knowing Sega, the game will more likely be announced in Famitsu or Aracadia instead of at a show though.
People at Neogaf saying that Sega's Arcade side is dead should take a look at this page....:/
Also their business summary still has Arcades first:
Business Summary Development, Production and Sales of
Amusement Machine
Development and Sales of Game Software
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Sega is all but dead. Sammy has totally destroyed and ripped apart the gaming company I grew up with and loved.
Fuck you Sammy
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I'm going to kill myself
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I'm going to kill myself
Oh no you don't! If we have to put up Sega turning into a mobile phone game company and Casino owner, you do as well. We're in this for the long run.
*Folds arms and sits in corner*
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Guys relax. SoA's projects were consistently awful and it's not like they were ever going to bring PSO2 over here anyway.
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Please Understand
Yeah, also no where in the statement does it say 'no retail games' but 'push to digital' which they already did. Honestly, do you think SEGA would say no retail games and announce a retail game like 12 hours before this announcement?
If anything, I hope this means SEGA's big teams in Japan handle some western output. AM2 alien game, here we come.
All I see is that the SOA business side is being slimmed down and that sucks. I talked to a bunch of great people in SOA and it is going to suck that they are gone but the higher ups at SEGA of America where idiotic. How many times can a division shit the bed due to bad management?
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Sad news. It doesn't seem like anyone at Sega of America really knows whether or not they'll be able to stay. The relocation would probably require people to move if they want to keep their job.
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Looks like some of the people are being asked to relocate. Honestly with the mass firings at SEGA America over the years and the obvious mismanagement from the top, I would just go to another company for work. Why relocate your life if there are plenty of other jobs in San Francisco.
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Kellie Parker has confirmed that she is leaving. I wonder if we're gonna have a community team at all anymore?
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More or less as far as I'm seeing, anyone who ever did anything for SoA is gone or leaving.
Can't say I blame them for the latter.
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Kellie Parker has confirmed that she is leaving. I wonder if we're gonna have a community team at all anymore?
Man that sucks. When I used to regular the SEGA forums, she was always really cool. Man...
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Yeah it sucks. Though if I was in Kellie and Julian shoes, even if they weren't fired, I dunno if I would move to the other side of California to continue to work at a company like SOA that continues to shrink. Especially after all the fault is management for what I hear. Especially when these people have significant others to think about who probably have a job in San Francisco.
Best of luck to Julian and Kellie. Both of them are leaving from I gather on social media. I know they'll find a job a even better job!
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I'd say they just about did this to themselves, Sonic Boom was a disaster. Such a bummer that they're going to concentrate on PC and Mobile more, but it makes total sense.
I almost feel an obligation to help this Company out more with sales at this point.
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I don't care for mobile but if Sega wants to focus on PC I'm all for it...
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I just hope Clumsy and Kellie will still be able to keep in touch with us one way or another
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Not too fond of PC or Mobile. However, if they release Sakura Wars to Steam, for example, I would buy it.
They have plenty to take from my wallet this year with Dengeki Bunko, Project Mirai, 3D classics, Yakuza 5... I hope people buy them too.
And it sucks all these helpful, friendly staff who been talking to us at Sega forum lost their jobs. I wish them luck.
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Sad to hear about Kellie and Julian leaving, but I totally understand their reasons, I wish them the best of luck in their future.
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Julian posted about his time with SEGA here:
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?521263-Sega-of-America-downsizing-relocating-to-Southern-California&p=8939459&viewfull=1#post8939459
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So does that mean Cochrane is gonna lose his job? Are the forums closing down?
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Guys relax. SoA's projects were consistently awful and it's not like they were ever going to bring PSO2 over here anyway.
Sigh.... This is far more to do with job losses at SOA . Its SEGA Group complete focus on mobile gaming . Which means to any console gamer SEGA is now all but dead to them and even in the Arcades SEGA is nothing like the SEGA of old It's sad to see :(. It may be great for profits but for any serious gamer mobile is not your platform of choice. Ahh well at least SEGA gave me some nice times and memories back in the day.
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I just don't if you can take corporate speak for granted. The last few annual reports they barely mention console games. Yet, they released things like Phantasy Star Nova, Shining Resonance, Dengeki Climax and the RGG games.
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I foresee 2015+ to feature more PC releases and more digital titles including localizations, the usual amount of mobile releases, no more SEGA of America third party crap, more use of old IPs in merchandising and visual media, and the pillar IPs of Sonic, Miku, Aliens, Total War, Football Manager, and Company of Heroes to continue in the West with the usual digital and boxed releases.
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Major over reactions from lots of people. but understandable. most people can't be bothered to keep up with an actual companies structure unless they really care.
Press release said increased focus on PC and mobile.. and well. that's kinda already what they've been doing. SEGA West is a PC Powerhouse developer. That's basically the only kinds of games SEGA Europe makes, ignoring hardlight and alien isolation.
Increased focus on mobile is SEGA Networks. Traditional SEGA developers will continue to make console games. They aren't going to scrap Yakuza, Miku, or big Sonic games. I imagine we will continue to see new IP on consoles too every once in a while.
The only cuts are SEGA America and Arcade. SEGA America gutted so they can no longer publish games, the branch has been a mess and SEGA Sammy have finally decided to put it to rest. They will only exist for the mere purpose of distributing the few physical games SEGA has in NA and maybe dealing with some other business like merchandise or localizing. The arcade division got cuts too because apparently arcades are starting to die in Japan.
There was some really cool people at SEGA America and I wish nothing but the best for them. They have done a great job. It's too bad things had to go this way. Thing is though. the writing has been on the wall. Sonic Boom was SEGA America's last chance after all the crap they have been responsible for. It's time to move on and destroy SEGA America in it's current form. They've done nothing but hold SEGA back for many years now. Also, if Sonic Boom the videogame was really a 20 million dollar budget, they've also been wasting a ton of SEGA Sammy's money.
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Major over reactions from lots of people. but understandable. most people can't be bothered to keep up with an actual companies structure unless they really care.
Press release said increased focus on PC and mobile.. and well. that's kinda already what they've been doing. SEGA West is a PC Powerhouse developer. That's basically the only kinds of games SEGA Europe makes, ignoring hardlight and alien isolation.
Increased focus on mobile is SEGA Networks. Traditional SEGA developers will continue to make console games. They aren't going to scrap Yakuza, Miku, or big Sonic games. I imagine we will continue to see new IP on consoles too every once in a while.
The only cuts are SEGA America and Arcade. SEGA America gutted so they can no longer publish games, the branch has been a mess and SEGA Sammy have finally decided to put it to rest. They will only exist for the mere purpose of distributing the few physical games SEGA has in NA and maybe dealing with some other business like merchandise or localizing. The arcade division got cuts too because apparently arcades are starting to die in Japan.
There was some really cool people at SEGA America and I wish nothing but the best for them. They have done a great job. It's too bad things had to go this way. Thing is though. the writing has been on the wall. Sonic Boom was SEGA America's last chance after all the crap they have been responsible for. It's time to move on and destroy SEGA America in it's current form. They've done nothing but hold SEGA back for many years now. Also, if Sonic Boom the videogame was really a 20 million dollar budget, they've also been wasting a ton of SEGA Sammy's money.
Pretty much on point with that post. I don't see any major changes happening with Sega, just their American division, which was a cancerous tumor to the whole Company.
As long as we get digital releases like Yakuza, I don't really care that they're cutting back on things. I do feel bad for the employees, seeing as how it happened with me when I worked at Borders, inc for 5 years. I wish them all the best as well.
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Major over reactions from lots of people. but understandable. most people can't be bothered to keep up with an actual companies structure unless they really care.
Press release said increased focus on PC and mobile.. and well. that's kinda already what they've been doing. SEGA West is a PC Powerhouse developer. That's basically the only kinds of games SEGA Europe makes, ignoring hardlight and alien isolation.
Increased focus on mobile is SEGA Networks. Traditional SEGA developers will continue to make console games. They aren't going to scrap Yakuza, Miku, or big Sonic games. I imagine we will continue to see new IP on consoles too every once in a while.
The only cuts are SEGA America and Arcade. SEGA America gutted so they can no longer publish games, the branch has been a mess and SEGA Sammy have finally decided to put it to rest. They will only exist for the mere purpose of distributing the few physical games SEGA has in NA and maybe dealing with some other business like merchandise or localizing. The arcade division got cuts too because apparently arcades are starting to die in Japan.
There was some really cool people at SEGA America and I wish nothing but the best for them. They have done a great job. It's too bad things had to go this way. Thing is though. the writing has been on the wall. Sonic Boom was SEGA America's last chance after all the crap they have been responsible for. It's time to move on and destroy SEGA America in it's current form. They've done nothing but hold SEGA back for many years now. Also, if Sonic Boom the videogame was really a 20 million dollar budget, they've also been wasting a ton of SEGA Sammy's money.
this is really well written and makes a lot of sense. SOA indeed was a mess no katter how great some of the people were. Sonic boom couldnt been anything other than a last straw after already past mistakes like colonial marines. I mean how screwed can u get! They were a bad management and maybe a cleansing is what's needed for now. Maybe when things get a bit more "healthy", they can go back to growing a good team in the US.
More PC is great news!
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here is the press release.. mean.. that's just how I see it. Suppose I could be wrong, don't think I am though. I honestly don't see anything changing much from how it is now.
SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SEGA of America (SOA), the North American operations for one of the world’s leading interactive entertainment companies, today announces its move from San Francisco to Southern California amid a downsizing of the business that will begin from January 2015 to early summer. The announcement was made today by SOA president and COO, John Cheng.
“This move was crucial to keep SEGA operations moving forward throughout North America and to provide our millions of fans a strong pipeline of content across gaming, TV, merchandising, and more,” said Cheng. “We are confident that by relocating to Southern California we will be able to thrive, grow and become a stronger company because of it.”
Relocation packages are being offered to a number of employees, but there will be positions reduced from the company to streamline operations. The total number of employees affected by this move will be realized after the complete transition is finalized in early summer.
Cheng added, “We are sad to say goodbye to some of the best people in the business and are indebted to them for their hard work and dedication through the years.”
SEGA’s game release schedule will not be affected by the move. The Sonic Boom television series, currently airing on Cartoon Network in the U.S., will also continue its run through 2015.
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Check out the three page press release on the front page as well. I mean yes, people are losing their jobs and the offices are being moved but there are some very important things to keep in mind: the offices are not being closed, they are being moved. SEGA of Japan hasn't completely given up on SoA. In fact, the shift to focusing primarily on PC and mobile and putting more effort into licensing and merchandising are all good things in my opinion. And they have not ceased boxed games - they're still a thing, but likely 2015 will see the same amount of physical releases as the past few years while the primary focus is PC and mobile.
All I want are good games, and more exposure for classic IPs. If ending things like Rise of Lyric, Colonial Marines, the many Marvel tie-ins, and Daisy Fuentes Pilates is what is to come from this then it could be a good thing. I kind of look at it as ripping off a band-aid. It hurts, but it needs to be done (for better or worse).
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That would depend, are we just cleaning house with lower level people? I know SEGA changes, but is the management that oversaw Boom still keeping their job? This is an important question because if they are going to fire people like Julian and Kellie who have been the voice to SEGA fans for over half a decade because management made bad decisions then its totally not fair.
As far as keeping SOA to digital and PC releases, I don't consider this a bad thing.
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I think everyone agrees on this: layoffs are never cheery news, I know first hand how it's like.
But this was inevitable, seeing how SEGA of America has had a questionable track record. And maybe, just maybe that Sonic Boom video game tie-in was the straw the broke the camels back and seeing how SEGA is considering other venues, it makes sense that they are cutting down on staff that's specifically game related.
Digital right now is where the smart money's at and SEGA already has a sizeable presence with Football Manager and Total War. I think they should maybe think about their Android / iOS strategy with these free-to-play games.
But speaking of movies and TV shows, VoD's foundation is getting stronger and truth be told, say what you will 'bout the video game, the Sonic Boom show is actually pretty good. The pilot as meh, but everything has been solid gold so far.
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Thing is we don't know if Julian and Kellie were laid off, or if they were given the option of moving and decided to not take it.
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It sounds almost like when they shut down Sega Australia, more like they are cutting the distribution and some local publishing but not development?
As everyone already said, it's a natural step in the direction Sega was already heading anyway, but it's fun to see the reactions on the internet from it.
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It sounds almost like when they shut down Sega Australia, more like they are cutting the distribution and some local publishing but not development?
As everyone already said, it's a natural step in the direction Sega was already heading anyway, but it's fun to see the reactions on the internet from it.
Yeah, I also see from that same point of view.
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All I want are good games, and more exposure for classic IPs. If ending things like Rise of Lyric, Colonial Marines, the many Marvel tie-ins, and Daisy Fuentes Pilates is what is to come from this then it could be a good thing. I kind of look at it as ripping off a band-aid. It hurts, but it needs to be done (for better or worse).
It's not and its not about the job loses at SOA . Its SEGA Japan and the direction Sammy wants SEGA to take and you take away 3 to 4 games and SEGA got hardly anything to offer the serious console gamer and I mean the 'console gamer' who I would put to you are the real SEGA fans - I really really doubt anybody here is a Die Hard SEGA fan thanks to SEGA's PC or its mobile range, Arcade's maybe (but Arcades are dead in the west) . Its been a worrying sign since some 2011/2 when Sammy massively slashed the R&D .
There's hardly anything to look forward to from SEGA Japan these days other than a 80's skin Yakuza and the hope that 1 day PSO II might come to the west or the consoles and SEGA gives us a VF 6 . Really though SEGA Japan is just falling more and more behind the rest for console development . It's no good for Teams Next Gen production lines and pipe lines to have them focused on Mobile gaming - While any yonger memebers of the team, will learn nothing about what its neeeded and what its takes to make a good console game, The tech pile lines are geared up for cross gen AAA productions and so going forward SEGA is going to lose even more and more ground, not that to many SEGA is now.
That is my worry
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^There are always the rumors of Sony and Sega linking up, like Capcom does with Microsoft and Sony nowadays.
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Yep, I don't think its bad taking a page from Capcom's book and signing exclusive deals with Sony. Sony + PC for Virtua Fighter 6 and be represented along side Street Fighter 5 could be what VF needs. Plus fighting games are most popular on PS4.
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^There are always the rumors of Sony and Sega linking up, like Capcom does with Microsoft and Sony nowadays.
And even then what can SEGA offer ? Sony not going to fund Shenmue III and Yakuza only sells 700,000 copies offers nothing to the west and even Sonic I think sold better on the XBox platform . SONY seems far more happy with Capcom and even Fromsoftware . I'm not sure how many of SEGA In-House team are even geared up to handle a AAA Big Budget console production these days as Sammy as had the staff focus so much on quick and easy productions , even the Sonic Team gone to bloody mobile :(
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And even then what can SEGA offer ? Sony not going to fund Shenmue III and Yakuza only sells 700,000 copies . SONY seems far more happy with Capcom and even Fromsoftware . I'm not sure how many of SEGA In-House team are even geared up to handle a AAA Big Budget console production these days as Sammy as had the staff focus so much on quick and easy productions , even the Sonic Team gone to bloody mobile :(
We only know that a third of Sega Japan's developers is making mobile. What lies beyond, who knows.
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Thing is we don't know if Julian and Kellie were laid off, or if they were given the option of moving and decided to not take it.
Maybe both. Upper management knows or at least should know the overall travel expenses of their own employees and moving to a new location implies potentially cutting down on staff that will likely spend more money and time getting to the new location.
But back to the general topic, TA makes a couple of good points and I have to say that it is a bit sad to see SEGA doubling down on itself. But adapting to the new market involves making changes that we might not agree or find pleasing.
But this is the new "normal" and it goes very much for every publisher from 2013 onwards: A small number of actual boxed AAA titles and a slew of smaller releases on Mobile / PC. Even digital episodic releases could be a viable option.
Speaking of which, I'm surprised SEGA hasn't done more HD Re-Releases like their direct competitors (Square Enix and their whore-ish attitude towards Dragon Quest, for example).
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On one hand I think consoles are done for, Sega is simply getting their shit together before it all crashes down.
On the other, I side with TA. There's nothing to be excited about, games wise
Wildcard:
Sega is buying up all these companies and IPs and cutting connection with consoles, so that when other consoles fail Sega rises with it's own console filled with exceptional exclusives.
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We only know that a third of Sega Japan's developers is making mobile. What lies beyond, who knows.
Well look at SEGA the last 2 or so . Hardly anything from SEGA Japan other than Yakuza, Sonic (and even Sonic team seem to be now focused on bloody mobile) and a few music games. I really wonder if the rest are up to the task of producing AAA console games that can rival anything that other 3rd parties couldn't do or offer. Be it on-line, Next Gen pipe lines tech and R&D or just making AAA games SEGA Japan seems really behind most major studios these days.
Some might same its great SEGA makes money (and it is) that it makes great mobile games: but that is not the SEGA I loved or supported even their Arcade line up is a bit depressing these days . I worry about SEGA Japan becoming irreverent to most gamers with each passing year.
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The point of Sega Japan being really relevant to anyone outside of Japan passed a long time ago.
The Yakuza series still generates excitement among gamers who like Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid, delaying the localizations for so long kills the buzz when the latest game is in Japan.
You say the Arcade line-up doesn't speak to you, but really it's the arcade industry or the game industry in general in Japan that doesn't seem to be exciting to most.
I liked the line-up of games Sega had last gen. Jun Yoshino produced stuff like the Platinum Games and Binary Domain and is now at Sony, helming stuff like Bloodborne, a new next-gen Japan IP. Sega needs to have something like that.
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I've been saying it for a long time, there's very little reason to be a 'Sega fan' anymore.
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No, I think Sega is still fun to follow and I like the stuff they make.
It's just in the western world, I don't care too much. I follow the Japanese Sega Twitter accounts, but not the western one.
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The content's collapsed dramatically, that's undeniable.
But it's the same for gaming in general, there's really less content in the medium to big publishers space if you enjoy specific types of games outside of first/third person shooters, overworld games or mobile. Only the console developers have any sort of impressive library coming into this generation and even then, only Nintendo has a good one.
Even with Capcom they've yet to get more than one game out of their pipeline. The one that they did was made by their American branch. Japanese publishers and developers are going to look to maximize their earnings via crossplatform development or social games (Unless prepped up by one of the big 3s) whilst Activision, EA and Ubisoft are going to continue to dominate the AAA space, that's pretty much the future of the industry at this point.
And Sonic Team making mobile games isn't a bad idea. If it takes resources away from console development it would be an issue but there is nothing to suggest it does.
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It's the current video game climate that's kinda depressing in general. SEGA had a huge influence on my gaming life and yeah with them nearly invisible on the Third Party Scene it's hard to get excited. Could be worse, look at Atari right now. Now that is depressing.
But when you think about it, most developers which are within SEGA's range (Square Enix, Deep Silver, Namco Bandai, Konami, Capcom) they are very much using the following approach:
-2 or 3 AAA boxed titles;
-A ton of digital releases on PC and Mobile;
-"Remastered" HD games on Xbox One and Playstation 4;
SEGA seems to be doing OK on PC and they've proved themselves with the Aliens franchise. Sonic is SEGA's Call of Duty and they definately need to get this sorted out asap.
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When we have stuff like the 3D Classics, Isolation, and VC on PC - not to mention the upcoming Yakuza 5 localization and the Miku games (which are a lot of fun once you get past the cheesiness that is vocaloids) - that is more than enough reason for me to continue to be a SEGA fan.
I know Mademan is the Cranky Kong of the forums, so I'm wasting my time writing this, but I disagree with the sentiment that there is no longer a reason to be a SEGA fan. I know I dig this up a lot, but the past 30+ years are enough reason for me to always be a fan. Even if SEGA evaporated tomorrow, nothing takes away the memories or the huge back catalog of games that I enjoy replaying, and the many titles I haven't even scratched the surface of. I know the counter is that you're referring to their output NOW, which I agree is not as strong as the SEGA console era nor is it as strong as the mid-00s. But it's simply a sign of the times. It's unfortunate that SEGA has had to scale back, but I still think what we did get last year and will be getting this year (with the exception of Rise of Lyric) has been enjoyable.
That's why I have to scratch my head when people like Nameless 24 make their exit from the community. I don't mean to call the guy out, but SEGA of America's proposed 2015 plans are not much different from 2014. Sure there will be less output, but there will be output and there will be games to enjoy. I know one of his reasons for leaving was SEGA moving away from physical releases, however it has been noted that physical releases are not going away, and quite honestly does a box and a disc make a game better? Is Yakuza 5 a better game when the disc is spinning versus running from the hard drive? And let's be honest, Xbox, Playstation, and Wii U cases are far from exciting. Colored DVD and blu-ray cases with a slipcover and no manual. I'm not saying I want physical releases to go away, but they are hardly a reason I'm a SEGA fan.
I want good games, and I want enough of them released each year. That's it. If this means more digital titles than physical, so be it.
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I've been saying it for a long time, there's very little reason to be a 'Sega fan' anymore.
Yep they're all but dead . Quite sad too see SEGA Japan become such a lame duck in the console world.
Even with Capcom they've yet to get more than one game out of their pipeline. The one that they did was made by their American branch. Japanese publishers and developers are going to look to maximize their earnings via crossplatform development or social games
Some key differences ... Capcom have a Next gen piple line and engine that already showing off impressive results . They not only have opened a toally seprate HQ to handle their mobile games (paid for the profits from MH III) but also have brand new HQ to go and another one that be ready to go in 2 years time : Capcom are investing and taking on staff ready for the next gen and the generations after that .
SEGA Japan have none of that, not even a next gen engine :Yakuza 0 engine is hardly state of the art for a PS4 game , even Fromsoftware will be wowing more gamers with its Bloodbone and then its Team can work and build on the tech with no doubt sequels to Dark Souls and Armored Core . Where's SEGA Japan next gen piple line and engine to match these then Aki ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74eveBPDY5o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74eveBPDY5o)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJrXCfVKXEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQa2VwNV-6E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjyb3TKWcVo
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Also, we've had this dance before. SEGA has only made a few game annoucements and I expect them to show their full lineup before E3. This has been their standard practice since the early Xbox 360 days.
That being said, I'm also a little partial on the whole physical vs digital thing. I still wanna have stuff on my shelf when it comes to video games. Even though, I've reversed that stance on movies, music and comics.
Personally, I wanna see how Yakuza 5 on digital only plays out. Who knows, maybe it'll be sucessful enough to warrant other big digital titles and usher in the era of digital AAA big budget game releases.
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Also, we've had this dance before. SEGA has only made a few game annoucements and I expect them to show their full lineup before E3.
And nothing ever comes of it. I can't remember the last time SEGA wowed gamers at the Toyko Game show or E3 . I think the real reason is SEGA Japan have little to show off when it comes to the next gen . They've all but given up and are focused on bloody mobiles :(
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And nothing ever comes of it. I can't remember the last time SEGA wowed gamers at the Toyko Game show or E3 . I think the real reason is SEGA Japan have little to show off when it comes to the next gen . They've all but given up and are focused on bloody mobiles :(
Tokyo Game Show has been so lame that Yakuza is always the highlight of it. (and PSO2)
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Yeah, I was reading your post regarding Capcom who seemed to have stepped up their game.
Come to think of it, I guess Creative Assembly right now seems to be the only developer that has the tech and experience to do PS4 / Xbox One titles since they did develop the only new-gen game thus far.
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When we have stuff like the 3D Classics, Isolation, and VC on PC - not to mention the upcoming Yakuza 5 localization and the Miku games (which are a lot of fun once you get past the cheesiness that is vocaloids) - that is more than enough reason for me to continue to be a SEGA fan.
I know Mademan is the Cranky Kong of the forums, so I'm wasting my time writing this, but I disagree with the sentiment that there is no longer a reason to be a SEGA fan. I know I dig this up a lot, but the past 30+ years are enough reason for me to always be a fan. Even if SEGA evaporated tomorrow, nothing takes away the memories or the huge back catalog of games that I enjoy replaying, and the many titles I haven't even scratched the surface of. I know the counter is that you're referring to their output NOW, which I agree is not as strong as the SEGA console era nor is it as strong as the mid-00s. But it's simply a sign of the times. It's unfortunate that SEGA has had to scale back, but I still think what we did get last year and will be getting this year (with the exception of Rise of Lyric) has been enjoyable.
That's why I have to scratch my head when people like Nameless 24 make their exit from the community. I don't mean to call the guy out, but SEGA of America's proposed 2015 plans are not much different from 2014. Sure there will be less output, but there will be output and there will be games to enjoy. I know one of his reasons for leaving was SEGA moving away from physical releases, however it has been noted that physical releases are not going away, and quite honestly does a box and a disc make a game better? Is Yakuza 5 a better game when the disc is spinning versus running from the hard drive? And let's be honest, Xbox, Playstation, and Wii U cases are far from exciting. Colored DVD and blu-ray cases with a slipcover and no manual. I'm not saying I want physical releases to go away, but they are hardly a reason I'm a SEGA fan.
I want good games, and I want enough of them released each year. That's it. If this means more digital titles than physical, so be it.
Referencing Nintendo Characters? A SIGN OF THE TIMES PERHAPS?
As much as I'm the curmudgeonly old man on this forum, I know what you mean, and I think we're just arguing semantics. Sega that I grew up with is the best video game company that ever existed in my eyes. No other Publisher/Developer had as many stand out games and creative ideas that Sega had for my tastes.
But when I talk about being a fan of something, I always think it to reference current output. Unless you put the disclaimer 'back in the day' or for a certain time frame.
I have to share the pessimism for the future though, I don't see much coming from Sega that interests me, or otherwise is so seperated from 'Sega' that anyone could have published it.
I'm a big fan of games going digital, but at the same time I don't think Sega will be publishing the likes of Bayonetta, Valkyria, or old franchises we love in the digital space. I think it will be smaller low budget games and third party efforts instead.
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who is the best company in the world then...Sega is just 90's that's all there is to it.
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Maybe I come from the "back in the day" from a different angle. To me, they're not memories trapped in the past that need to be clarified with a "back in the day", to me all the classic games are right there ready to play, albeit on old hardware. Given I'm always buying classic games, old SEGA stuff is really just SEGA I haven't experienced yet. The Master System, for example, is uncharted territory for me. I've only just gotten into it last year, and now 30 games in I'm have new SEGA experiences.
That's why I have to wonder why fans yearning for increased SEGA output in 2014 and 2015 don't just go back to games they missed out on to fill that void.
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And even then what can SEGA offer ? Sony not going to fund Shenmue III and Yakuza only sells 700,000 copies offers nothing to the west and even Sonic I think sold better on the XBox platform . SONY seems far more happy with Capcom and even Fromsoftware . I'm not sure how many of SEGA In-House team are even geared up to handle a AAA Big Budget console production these days as Sammy as had the staff focus so much on quick and easy productions , even the Sonic Team gone to bloody mobile :(
But they are already teaming with Yakuza in America and have been teaming up with Yakuza in Japan for a long time. Do you know what your talking about? This is the same Sony that has been teaming up with indie devs that really didn't make a splash, like Octodad was literally one of the most previewed game, even having national TV time on Late Night Shows as a launch title and your saying SEGA IPs are not good enough for Sony to team up with?
Not only that, the reason Yakuza is coming over is because Sony got so much demand from fans... so you really make no sense.
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That's why I have to wonder why fans yearning for increased SEGA output in 2014 and 2015 don't just go back to games they missed out on to fill that void.
I recommed downloading MAME, alot of the pre-Model series arcade games can be emulated and are pretty obscure (and good games too)
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Maybe I come from the "back in the day" from a different angle. To me, they're not memories trapped in the past that need to be clarified with a "back in the day", to me all the classic games are right there ready to play, albeit on old hardware. Given I'm always buying classic games, old SEGA stuff is really just SEGA I haven't experienced yet. The Master System, for example, is uncharted territory for me. I've only just gotten into it last year, and now 30 games in I'm have new SEGA experiences.
That's why I have to wonder why fans yearning for increased SEGA output in 2014 and 2015 don't just go back to games they missed out on to fill that void.
Well, obviously you can play old games still. I just got done playing Deus Ex which is ten thousand years old this May. But I don't say I'm a fan of what Ion Storm is doing these days, because well, they don't exist anymore.
As I said, it's just semantics. I think we agree we like Sega's old shit, otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. I'm just saying that current Sega isn't exactly blowing my skirt up.
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Yep they're all but dead . Quite sad too see SEGA Japan become such a lame duck in the console world.
Some key differences ... Capcom have a Next gen piple line and engine that already showing off impressive results . They not only have opened a toally seprate HQ to handle their mobile games (paid for the profits from MH III) but also have brand new HQ to go and another one that be ready to go in 2 years time : Capcom are investing and taking on staff ready for the next gen and the generations after that .
In the meantime, the Arcade part of Sega is gonna publish and distribute a Luigi's Mansion Arcade Game made by Capcom...sure, Capcom can do it for themselves just like the exclusive AAA "Phanta Rei" F2P title for the PS4 that was delayed. So multiplat right there.
Also, why their mobile division is testing games in South Korea and almost doesn't have an app that reach the Top 100 in Japan? I don't know, maybe they are pleasing their fanbase until they reach the inevitable fate of doom that almost half of the videogames companies in Japan are having.
Maybe I could talk about the almost 9 year project from Square-Enix or the almost predominance of Kojima in Konami that singlehanded push the console side from falling out of business.
Or also the temporary exclusives in consoles from PC games that almost got funded by the company that sign the deal for the exclusivity.
To put in context, not everybody are in a good position to make AAA games or even expanding their businesses. Both sides:West and East.
Please, this is happening to the whole industry, not only Sega.
Yes, the American side has done some terrible decisions that lost their trust from big daddy SS, but that doesn't mean they didn't try to make something good or marketing something well.
Just only the 3D Classics, the localizations of JP games and many merchandising deals are signs of good people working for maintain something called community.
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Some key differences ... Capcom have a Next gen piple line and engine that already showing off impressive results . They not only have opened a toally seprate HQ to handle their mobile games (paid for the profits from MH III) but also have brand new HQ to go and another one that be ready to go in 2 years time : Capcom are investing and taking on staff ready for the next gen and the generations after that .
SEGA Japan have none of that, not even a next gen engine :Yakuza 0 engine is hardly state of the art for a PS4 game , even Fromsoftware will be wowing more gamers with its Bloodbone and then its Team can work and build on the tech with no doubt sequels to Dark Souls and Armored Core . Where's SEGA Japan next gen piple line and engine to match these then Aki ?
We aren't really talking about AAA content, we are talking about content in general and so far none of the major publishers have shown they are either relying on only a select few IPs (Sonic, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy.) or unwilling to develop titles unless they get some sort of incentive from a major console manufacturer.
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I think this mentality of 'we need triple AAA titles' to be successful is one of the most retarded things I have heard in a long ass time and that is why Japanese developers are in the shitter.
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Wut? Even Nintendolife?
I don't even ... ???
SEGA Struggles! Should They Sell Sonic to Nintendo?
http://www.nintendolife.com/videos/2258
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Hahahahaha, hell no. I don't hate Nintendo, just don't want any of their shitty policies to infect us as a fanbase. Did you guys hear this shit? They are literally holding their fans hostage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vGe68T6sM
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I'd rather SEGA give Sonic to say the Ryu Ga Gotoku team or AM2, heck I even believe The Creative Assembly could do a good job.
I like how everyone always overlooks how much of a popular brand Sonic is, if each new entry brings you in over $100 million in revenue, plus licensing deals, SEGA won't be looking to sell the IP for anything less than half a billion, if not more.
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I'd rather SEGA give Sonic to say the Ryu Ga Gotoku team or AM2, heck I even believe The Creative Assembly could do a good job.
I like how everyone always overlooks how much of a popular brand Sonic is, if each new entry brings you in over $100 million in revenue, plus licensing deals, SEGA won't be looking to sell the IP for anything less than half a billion, if not more.
Sonic is one of those properties that Sega would only sell if they were going bankrupt. No way would they part with it a moment sooner. Its too much of a tentpole.
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Also there isn't any reason to sell, outside of the retail blunders that SOA have caused, SOE and SOJ have actually be turning profits last time... Alien Isolation was a hit.
Seems they finally did what they had to do with SOA and cut them down to digital. Honestly, the last 3 years that really has been their strong point.
As for a Sonic game, Sonic Team is doing just fine. Sonic Generations, Colors and Lost World (step back but not super shitty) are a decent track record for console releases.
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And over in Europe, Sumo has done an awesome job with the Sonic and Sega characters. I really hope 2016 sees another Allstars Racing for One, PS4, and Wii U.
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But they are already teaming with Yakuza in America and have been teaming up with Yakuza in Japan for a long time.
Agreeing to let a game go up on PSN some 3 years after it 1st hit the shevels in Japan is hardly a vote of confidence by SONY or indeed SEGA . Its not like SEGA or indeed SONY are showing any signs of getting Yakuza 0 for the west, much less Ishin
Not only that, the reason Yakuza is coming over is because Sony got so much demand from fans
Nothing new in that at all , Didn't Namco have a change of heart with Godzilla and will now publish it in the west ? . And don't make me laugh about so called demand - is this the same demand from SEGA fans that wanted Yakuza IV brough to the west, Virtual Fighter 5 Final brought to the PS3 and 360 ?
I think this mentality of 'we need triple AAA titles' to be successful is one of the most retarded things I have heard in a long ass time and that is why Japanese developers are in the shitter
Do you know what you're saying ? . Japan developers and publishers focus on the Mobile and Handheld market is one of the big reasons why their developers have lost so much ground on the consoles and can't really compete with the Western console productions...
SOE and SOJ have actually be turning profits last time... Alien Isolation was a hit
And remind us again why was it a hit ? Can it be becasue it was a Big console production made manily for the consoles , truly multi platform. Also is makes me laugh to see some SEGA fans go on about this being such a hit . Its sold a million over 5 different platforms , where as dead Rising 3 sells a million on just 1 platform , and the likes of Dark Souls sells over a million on 2 .
SEGA Japan take note.
As for a Sonic game, Sonic Team is doing just fine. Sonic Generations, Colors and Lost World
Lost World didn't even break a million sales , which may expain why even the Sonic Team gone running (pun intended) to the mobiles :( .
we are talking about content in general and so far none of the major publishers have shown they are either relying on only a select few IPs
You want to talk content ? Other than Yakuza 0 what's SEGA's Japan big plans for the next gen consoles ? At least the likes of Square, Capcom, Fromsoftware and even Konami have some real next gen games to show off and have next gen engines to build games with . SEGA Japan doesn't even seem to have that these days .
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You think investing millions in one IP is a good business decision when so many are failing or doing alright?
Of course you do. *shake my head*
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You think investing millions in one IP is a good business decision when so many are failing or doing alright
Typical politician answer ducks the questions and tries to twist it with a replay :Alien Isoltion only sold well thanks to being multi platform and even then its numbers are hardly anything to get really worked up about given it was on 5 different platforms , but at least it showed to get the best sales it needs to be on a console and multi platform not that Sammy will take much notice I bet .
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Typical politician answer ducks the questions and tries to twist it with a replay :Alien Isoltion only sold well thanks to being multi platform and even then its numbers are hardly anything to get really worked up about given it was on 5 different platforms , but at least it showed to get the best sales it needs to be on a console and multi platform not that Sammy will take much notice I bet .
They will take notice, but their logic is:
Western games by Western developers for the western market.
Japanese games for the Japanese by Sega of Japan.
It's been that way for a good while.
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No sadly SEGA Japan logic is we can't cut it with the big boys on the consoles and will take the safe and easy option of mobiles for the main. I should also point out that the likes of Square Enix have much bigger western studios, are huge on the mobile , but also make sure the maintain a Big Console team in Japan with very good decent tech .
All in all SEGA are a leader in anything these days and don't give the console gamer much to look forward too . Thanks for nothing Sammy
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In the meantime, the Arcade part of Sega is gonna publish and distribute a Luigi's Mansion Arcade Game made by Capcom...sure, Capcom can do it for themselves just like the exclusive
What ? It's kind of sad SEGA AM aren't up to the job of devleoping it them self's don't you think ?. Not that seeing Seeing SEGA publish a Nintendo port in the Arcade is the kind of thing I like to see.
Maybe I could talk about the almost 9 year project from Square-Enix or the almost predominance of Kojima in Konami that singlehanded push the console side from falling out of business
9 years ? . And konami have always done very well in fact more or than better than SEGA over the years . Not all of that is thanks to Kojima-san , but hey at least Konami kept their main man, not like the way Sammy treated Yu Suzuki :(. And sorry most of the main teams are at least showing off some nice tech and the odd good game to lookforward too on the consoles , SEGA Japan other than Yakuza reskin have little for any next gen console owner to look forward too .
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You can't do revionist history on the fact that Sega has many PC studios on the western side, they are a "leader" in that.
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Really, tech is only important to you? Without next-gen ultimate engine support, Sega is nothing?
Please, you didn't answer me about that Next- gen engine exclusive not multiplat F2P game from Capcom that was , I repeat, DELAYED.
9 Years since the Announcement of Final Fantasy Versus XIII/XV in 2006 took SE to release the friggin game.
In between the releases of MGS 4 and 5, Konami publish a crap ton of financial failures or games that didn't meet the expectations just like the PES Saga, Silent Hill Games, Castlevania reboot and more failing new IP's.
Maybe they are similar to Sega in that aspect but not much.
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Isn't konami struggling too ? :P
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You can't do revionist history on the fact that Sega has many PC studios on the western side, they are a "leader" in that.
[/quote
You can't do revionist history on the fact that Sega has many PC studios on the western side, they are a "leader" in that.
I remember when SEGA Japan had a PC divsion and it made some classics as well as going on to form the Smilebit Studio which kept one it's PC lines going with some very good DC Ports . Those days are long gone too
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Political answer? How is this: Post one company that has had success with this formula of releasing new triple A games. Are we going to pretend that Dead Rising 3 is a next generation game?
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Political answer? How is this: Post one company that has had success with this formula of releasing new triple A games. Are we going to pretend that Dead Rising 3 is a next generation game?
Electronic Arts.
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, GEORGE?
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No sadly SEGA Japan logic is we can't cut it with the big boys on the consoles and will take the safe and easy option of mobiles for the main. I should also point out that the likes of Square Enix have much bigger western studios, are huge on the mobile , but also make sure the maintain a Big Console team in Japan with very good decent tech .
All in all SEGA are a leader in anything these days and don't give the console gamer much to look forward too . Thanks for nothing Sammy
Sammy's corporate conservatism means Sega will now always be behind. They could invest in Sega, build them up, but instead they prefer to do everything on the cheap and skim off the profits. SOJ are increasingly insular, retreating back into Japan in the age of global communication.
At E3 Sega have managed to have the dullest, most uninspiring line-up, for years now. While Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Nintendo, MS, and Sony dominate, Sega sits on the sidelines with its crumbs.
Make games? Nope, Sammy prefers to just acquire, outsource, and lazily publish or leech off Sony and Nintendo.
Square Enix, Konami, etc, all have their troubles, but they still have some verve and boldness and creative energy.
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You want to talk content ? Other than Yakuza 0 what's SEGA's Japan big plans for the next gen consoles ? At least the likes of Square, Capcom, Fromsoftware and even Konami have some real next gen games to show off and have next gen engines to build games with . SEGA Japan doesn't even seem to have that these days .
Again you are mistaking content and AAA titles. By the time most of those games launch SEGA Japan would have had 3 original titles out on the PS4, 1 title from their Western branch and 1 port of an older game.
The point is content is seriously lacking regardless and that unless there is a form of financial incentive publishers will continue to go down the safe route.
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Electronic Arts.
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, GEORGE?
I mean't Japanese company.
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I mean't Japanese company.
Adding to that, Electronic Arts had failures in Fuse and Dante's Inferno. Medal of Honour under preformed too.
Where is YOUR God now Mang?
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I mean't Japanese company.
Moving the goal-posts again I see? Please discuss wrestling.
Adding to that, Electronic Arts had failures in Fuse and Dante's Inferno. Medal of Honour under preformed too.
Where is YOUR God now Mang?
Had to go back to games that came out eighteen years ago did we Akee? Nice argument bro. NOT!
MY God (or whoever), spun around on the spot 3 times, did a dance and said "Sega making AAA games is forbidden!"
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MY God (or whoever), spun around on the spot 3 times, did a dance and said "Sega making AAA games is forbidden!"
Watch out, you might offend someone!
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Watch out, you might offend someone!
I don't even know who at this point. Sega, Americans, Catholics or Sonic Fans round out the top four.
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>Alien Isolation not AAA
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>Alien Isolation not AAA
>Ayyy lmao Isolation not AAArgh!
>because it's scary
>greentexting outside of 4chan
>ishygddt
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>maymay arrows
But seriously, I don't get the "Sega has no AAA" talk. Sega has multiple AAA titles, they just don't do any marketing in the West for some reason. If Yakuza and PSO were made by Microsoft, everybody would be running around shitting their pants.
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Didn't they try that with Yakuza 1 and it bombed anyway?
And they have AAA titles, but it's like, not Sega DNA, man. :afroman: :afroman: :afroman:
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You guys need to play some AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA games instead
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Sega West is carving out its own 'DNA' and so long as the games are good I'm happy for them too. And I would say SEGA Europes games are almost always consistently good. Save for a few Total War games with a weak, buggy launch.
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Save for a few Total War games with a weak, buggy launch.
You mean every total war game in existence, right?
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You mean every total war game in existence, right?
It's clearly infected the whole medium with Destiny, Drive Club, Watchdog and Assassin's Creed.
SEGA was way ahead of their time ONCE AGAIN.
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You mean every total war game in existence, right?
It seems to go; the first game is full of bugs the stand alone expansion is pretty good. Example being Empires was buggy, Napoleon fixed that. Shogun 2 was buggy, Fall of the Samurai fixed that. Rome 2 was really buggy... Attila looks like it will fix that too.
I know CA get a lot of shit for releasing some buggy games, but the also release some of the most technically complicated games out there... Strategy games are some of the hardest to develop period... balance, path finding and so on are important and difficult to get right, it's rarely ever done in fact.
Fact is nobody else is doing what CA are doing. They're effectively giving you two games in one, the battle map and the campaign map are like two separate games intertwined and affect each other... In both areas the game as so much depth, not to mention historical depth... Nobody other developer is even coming CLOSE to what they're doing. I reckon those games are a mammoth undertaking to develop and I think a few launch bugs can be forgiven. Especially if they are as dedicated to patching and improving as CA are.
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^I can agree on that point. The games are quite big and CA are good about patching them usually. They were supporting the mess that was Rome 2 for a long ass time. I hope Attila fixes it, but I'm not holding my breath.
I will disagree about the games not having an equal for depth. Compared to Paradox's games (Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis etc), Total War's Grand Strategy aspects look like Fisher Price stuff.
As you said though, they don't offer any kind of real time tactical battles, it's purely concentrated on the grand strategy aspect.
The only game I can think of that did the Total War formula was King Arthur, which actually looked really fun, and was essentially the 'Fantasy Total War' that people were wanting.
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It's clearly infected the whole medium with Destiny, Drive Club, Watchdog and Assassin's Creed.
SEGA was way ahead of their time ONCE AGAIN.
Don't forget The Master Chief Collection.
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Don't forget The Master Chief Collection.
Don't forget Croc on Sega Saturn (Where the game launched and Croc had no HEAD!!). Sega really were trail-blazers. Even when patches didn't exist. (Okay so it was FOX interactive more than Sega but fuck it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7YZ91rAGE
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Don't forget Croc on Sega Saturn (Where the game launched and Croc had no HEAD!!). Sega really were trail-blazers. Even when patches didn't exist. (Okay so it was FOX interactive more than Sega but fuck it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7YZ91rAGE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7YZ91rAGE)
No you see SEGA specifically designed secret code into the Saturn so that it would gimp certain games, I can't believe you didn't know this Madehench *roll eyes*
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No you see SEGA specifically designed secret code into the Saturn so that it would gimp certain games, I can't believe you didn't know this Madehench *roll eyes*
That may be true for games like Ecco the Dolphin, where the swimming in that game was a glitch that got exploited and built on for Sequels like Revenge of Ecco, but it's not true for Croc which was a bona-fide ACCIDENT m8. I reckon ur just ir8, this glitch is gr8, if you want to convers8 then hang around, if you are just going to talk sh8 then you should dissip8, m9te.
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9 Years since the Announcement of Final Fantasy Versus XIII/XV in 2006 took SE to release the friggin game
? Some games take years to develop and go through various design changes and all that , just look at Star Craft 2 a decade and more in the making . WOW is years old and still no direct sequel , SEGA it's self took some 12 years to make a 'direct sequel to PSO and SEGA own MMORG Shenmue Online was years into development and even after 20 million spent on it a complete non show.
In between the releases of MGS 4 and 5, Konami publish a crap ton of financial failures or games that didn't meet the expectations just like the PES Saga, Silent Hill Games, Castlevania reboot and more failing new IP
Just like SEGA then and btw not only has konami been one of the most profitable gaming companies in Japan over the last 2 decades and able to remain independent. Koanmi MGS IV has alone sold better than all the PS3 Yakuza's combined.
Are we going to pretend that Dead Rising 3 is a next generation game?
And why isn't a next gen game ?, and I like to know what's your definition of a next gen game.
Post one company that has had success with this formula of releasing new triple A games
Just one ?. EA, Nintendo, Ubisoft, Sony, Microsoft, Take Two, Bethesda, Capcom all seem to do rather well on the back of AAA games from their studio's .
By the time most of those games launch SEGA Japan would have had 3 original titles out on the PS4, 1 title from their Western branch and 1 port of an older game.
Nothing original about PS3 Yakuza ports to the PS4 .
Adding to that, Electronic Arts had failures in Fuse and Dante's Inferno. Medal of Honour under preformed too.
LOl What and Sonic Boom, Sonic Lost World, Nights II, Rise of Nightmares , Binary Domain, weren't flops ? When it comes to games flops and failures SEGA got plenty and sadly too many
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Nothing original about PS3 Yakuza ports to the PS4 .
They are content made for the Playstation 4, wither you like it or not, it is available and launched alongside it's Playstation 3 version and not a remaster but an original release alongside the lesser version.
LOl What and Sonic Boom, Sonic Lost World, Nights II, Rise of Nightmares , Binary Domain, weren't flops ? When it comes to games flops and failures SEGA got plenty and sadly too many
... ?
Are you trying to go off on a tangent again, how does me replying to Mang who was replying to George who said no one has a solid plan on making AAA success even bring SEGA into this? The very point is no one can make a 100% success rate so er thanks for proving my point I guess.
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We are talking about Japanese companies and how they are failing. Seems the only one doing 'goat post' moving was you Mademan.
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Crazy Taxi Rush on the iOS is AAA for sure. I have my taxi so pimp out jesus
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Crazy Taxi Rush on the iOS is AAA for sure. I have my taxi so pimp out jesus
Seriously speaking Chain Chronicle is a cool mobile game that I've sank time in and enjoyed the characters.
I wouldn't mind it being expanded into a full blown retail title.
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I've been growing to enjoy mobile games. They literally last for a minute or two, have no load times, and Sega ones are fantastic.
It's arcade gaming at it's best.
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Usually around here AAA means 'high budget, new technology, big team, massive marketing' while the new generation of gamers really don't care about that shit. Minecraft is literally the biggest game of this generation. Minecraft...
The days of triple A development are dying and indies are getting more traction. Small teams, creative ideas delivered right to a consumer that has their voice heard in development.
Some say the consumers don't know what they want, those people are the fucking idiots ruining companies like SEGA and other Japanese companies. Atlus literally said the shift to their success was actually listening to their fanbase and expanding on things they liked. Not to mention, Atlus also doesn't release high budget releases.
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They are content made for the Playstation 4,
They're far from 'original' for starters and seeing last tech running at 60 and even 1080p is hardly an impressive feat of SEGA next gen engine or anything new these days . I can play all the 4 Halo's in just that, but here's hopping Halo V uses the Xbox One tech to the fullest we can soon play DMC in 1080p and at 60fps on the One and PS4 but that's hardly a great advert from Capcom next gen engine and so one hopes any new DMC game will make full use of Capcom's new gen engine .
Are you trying to go off on a tangent again
Whas's the matter we forgot about the SEGA flops ? . When it comes to letdowns and flops SEGA up there with the best these days sadly , even corp has them .
Usually around here AAA means 'high budget, new technology, big team, massive marketing' while the new generation of gamers really don't care about that shit.
That's why the PS4 is the best selling console and SONY is pushing its GFX advantage ?. Graphics do count for a lot even in this or last gen. Gamers are more than zavvi enough to port out any sort comings in multi platform games on their different consoles and if game looks like total rubbish it will have a hard time selling to the public no matter how good the gameplay is Daytona USA on the Saturn showed this years back .
The days of triple A development are dying
? To me they're just as good as last gen. Sorry you might not like them or think they're good but there's been plenty of AAA games that's been made and upcoming for this gen and loads made last gen . The days of small teams being able to make a 'real' impact on the mainstream died out with the likes of Amiga/ST and that just went full scale with the Saturn and PS.
The Japanese studios are dying and becoming less and less of a force on the consoles thanks to their focus on the handhelds and mobiles , its pretty sad to see the decline in the likes of SEGA Japan, Treasure Etc ...That's the trouble for many they grew up and loved the Japanese studios and now they're just not delivering like they use too and that why for a few they dislike this and last gen as the Western teams have taken over
Minecraft is literally the biggest game of this generation. Minecraft...
I think that's GTA V isn't it ?. They'll always be an except to the rule I think Tetris is the best selling game ever , I mean bloody Tetris .
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Hey. Tetris is a fucking masterpiece. You can do so much with 4 squares, omg.
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I've been growing to enjoy mobile games. They literally last for a minute or two, have no load times, and Sega ones are fantastic.
It's arcade gaming at it's best.
Yeah I do love a bit of Sonic 2 and Crazy Taxi on the go too.
I just wish SEGA ported more of their console stuff to phones, I'd love to play more of the 2D stuff like Ristar, Monster World, etc on mobile.
They're far from 'original' for starters and seeing last tech running at 60 and even 1080p is hardly an impressive feat of SEGA next gen engine or anything new these days . I can play all the 4 Halo's in just that, but here's hopping Halo V uses the Xbox One tech to the fullest we can soon play DMC in 1080p and at 60fps on the One and PS4 but that's hardly a great advert from Capcom next gen engine and so one hopes any new DMC game will make full use of Capcom's new gen engine .
They are original content because they are new content, not because they are revolutionary. That is what people want, content. We aren't talking about AAA gaming with all the high tech graphics but a broad scope like content. This is what people like Crackdude, Mang, etc are talking about.
Whas's the matter we forgot about the SEGA flops ? . When it comes to letdowns and flops SEGA up there with the best these days sadly , even corp has them .
No you just happen to be proving my point. George said no publisher has a forumlar for AAA success, Mang responds with EA, I respond that they too have failures.
You're reading comprehension is failing. You're basically helping me and George prove our point.
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They are original content because they are new content, not because they are revolutionary
? Content does mean a game is original and you'll be having almost the exact gameplay experience playing Yakuza 0 or Ishin on the PS3 as you would on the PS4 It's not new and at least with Capcom and Fromsoft upcoming last gen ports users not only get full 1080p and 60fps but the likes of Fromsoftware are also adding new content to Dark Souls Scholar of the Sin, but there again Fromsoftware are a class outfit .
I'd love to play more of the 2D stuff like Ristar, Monster World, etc on mobile
You mean the old SEGA ? Says it all really. Trouble is under Sammy current model in 20 years time they'll be no classic SEGA games to milk, becasue these days SEGA don't make the classics like they use to
but a broad scope like content
Well games like GTA will leave Yakuza standing on that front so does Assassin's Creed. And huge ammount of content does not fit well with SEGA Japan focus on Mobile gaming
George said no publisher has a forumlar for AAA success, Mang responds with EA, I respond that they too have failures
Every corp will make the odd bad game and have the odd flop (even Nintendo) But plenty of publishers do rather well of the back of their AAA games be that EA, Take Two, Nintendo, Capcom Activsion, Ubisoft , Square Enix Bethesda .
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We are talking about Japanese companies and how they are failing. Seems the only one doing 'goat post' moving was you Mademan.
Yes because it's not fair to compare glorious white men to inferior yellow men from Japan. For once we agree on something m80.
I don't know what Goat Posts are, but it sounds like the basis for an excellent Kick-starter, Early Access Steam game.
Also I don't know if you're really taking this topic seriously, because I certainly am not.
No you just happen to be proving my point. George said no publisher has a forumlar for AAA success, Mang responds with EA, I respond that they too have failures.
Forumlar?
It's arcade gaming at it's best.
I don't remember Arcade Games being stupidly hard unless you put in more money to keep playing...
Oh wait.
But still, I don't into Mob games.
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Sammy's corporate conservatism means Sega will now always be behind. They could invest in Sega, build them up, but instead they prefer to do everything on the cheap and skim off the profits. SOJ are increasingly insular, retreating back into Japan in the age of global communication.
At E3 Sega have managed to have the dullest, most uninspiring line-up, for years now. While Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Nintendo, MS, and Sony dominate, Sega sits on the sidelines with its crumbs.
Make games? Nope, Sammy prefers to just acquire, outsource, and lazily publish or leech off Sony and Nintendo.
Square Enix, Konami, etc, all have their troubles, but they still have some verve and boldness and creative energy.
Spot on post
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Team Andromeda you are wrong. SEGA SAMMY IS THE TRUE GOSPEL AND IS THE ONE TRUE SAVIOUR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRNbn1mBPyU
SEGA IS ONE MOST LEADING AND POPULAR GAME DEVELOPERS IN THE WORLD
SEGA HAS PUT OUT A NUMBER OF PRODUCT THAT WERE THE FIRST IN HISTORY AND THE WORLDS FIRST
CONTINUENGLY CHALLENGING WITH TECHNOLOGY AKQUIRED OVER TIME AND IP KNOWN THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
THE ULTIMATE GAMING MANUFACTURER THAT TRANSCENDES GAMING AND REVOLUTIONIZES ENTERTAINMENT
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TRUE SEGA-SAMMY DNA
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SEGA HAS PUT OUT A NUMBER OF PRODUCT THAT WERE THE FIRST IN HISTORY AND THE WORLDS FIRST
'Has' being the operative word :(
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Shenmue Online was years into development and even after 20 million spent on it a complete non show.
Actually, Shenmue Online's budget was WAY over that. It began with a 28 million dollar budget: http://shenmuedojo.net/new/games/s0preview.html
And that was in February 2003 when the game started development, when JCE was still working with newly formed Digitalrex at the time on the game. As you know, the game was well into development until some time in 2007, where it just keeled over and died. Suzuki confirmed in 2008, I think it was "pending", and we can only assume it is dead at this point.
But obviously it blew past the initial budget. How could it not?
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For some reason Sega has cancelled pretty much most of planned MMO ventures in the mid 2000's. There was supposed to be a Sakura Wars Online, Saint Seiya Online and some others.
Now they are expanding into it again, after PSO2 became the success it is.
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? Content does mean a game is original and you'll be having almost the exact gameplay experience playing Yakuza 0 or Ishin on the PS3 as you would on the PS4 It's not new and at least with Capcom and Fromsoft upcoming last gen ports users not only get full 1080p and 60fps but the likes of Fromsoftware are also adding new content to Dark Souls Scholar of the Sin, but there again Fromsoftware are a class outfit.
Again you're mistaking AAA content as the only content when that isn't the case. Fact is wither it is on the PS3 or just the PS4 means nothing, people want content and Yakuza Ishin and 0 are both that.
You mean the old SEGA ? Says it all really. Trouble is under Sammy current model in 20 years time they'll be no classic SEGA games to milk, becasue these days SEGA don't make the classics like they use to
No because I don't want to be playing Binary Domain on my smartphone. In this VERY TOPIC both me and Crackdude have said how we enjoyed SEGA's mobile output so you're having a strange rant by butting in against two people who are very much enjoying what's being offered.
Well games like GTA will leave Yakuza standing on that front so does Assassin's Creed. And huge ammount of content does not fit well with SEGA Japan focus on Mobile gaming
Again you are not understanding what content is. That is you know, video game content, the stuff people in this forum like.
The fact you're getting confused by my simple points leave me baffled.
Every corp will make the odd bad game and have the odd flop (even Nintendo) But plenty of publishers do rather well of the back of their AAA games be that EA, Take Two, Nintendo, Capcom Activsion, Ubisoft , Square Enix Bethesda .
Right again you missed the point. You see George said there is no 100% success rate for AAA gaming amongst publishers, not that there is no success. So by admitting even Nintendo makes flop, thanks for proving my point?
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No because I don't want to be playing Binary Domain
Neither do I, what a snore-fest.
:D
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Neither do I, what a snore-fest.
:D
Well I would have said Yakuza for you Mang but then we would have some random rant about that series not being high tech enough for mobile phones.
Also YOUR FACE is a snore-fest.
And your avatar is sadist shit too!
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Well I would have said Yakuza for you Mang but then we would have some random rant about that series not being high tech enough for mobile phones.
Also YOUR FACE is a snore-fest.
And your avatar is sadist shit too!
I changed my avatar just for you, you big girl!
I wonder if Yakuza on phone could work. Considering the fights don't require TOO much directional input, you could map buttons to different corners of the screen, and point and click style interface for the exploration and talking....
Hmmmmm
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TA if you consider Bethesda's glitchy games and Nintendo's low budget games as 'AAA titles', what is a AAA title? Just sales or budget or quality? You just named a developers that have been releasing some of the worse next gen games. SEGA is doing better than Ubisoft in that front, Alien Isolation was way higher quality then the new Assassins Creed Unity game.
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people want content and Yakuza Ishin and 0 are both that.
If a game doesn't have any content then you don't have a game . Again just by having content does not mean a game is orginial. And more people will buy Dark Souls II Scholar I willing to bet .
No because I don't want to be playing Binary Domain on my smartphone
Well the way SOJ is going you'll only be playing their major games on the mobiles .
You see George said there is no 100% success rate for AAA gaming amongst publishers
I don't think that was George point, but the fact is for the last 3 generations at least those publishers have done well off the back of their AAA games .
TA if you consider Bethesda's glitchy games and Nintendo's low budget games as 'AAA titles', what is a AAA title?
Every game has gliches (unless its Nintendo) there's plenty in Shenmue and GTA V for staters that shouldn't take away from the games overall quailty and when you start to get into a sandbox openworld game you're going to get bugs and glitches. And you're being rather silly if you don't think that likes of Zelda, Mario Galaxy or Mario Kart 8 aren't top quailty AAA productions its not always about just money - To me a AAA game is when youre top team are given years to make a game and all the resoruces they need to make it .
You just named a developers that have been releasing some of the worse next gen games.
How do you know, youtube told you do even own a PS4 or XBox One much less any of those games? . Assassin's Creed is a nice game with a impressive engine , Far Cry 4 is lovely not too bad for games made in the console 1st year on sale . Yeah Alien is a top game and ejoyed some nice sales it too as the odd bug and Glitch btw) - that's what happens when you put some effort in and make a top quailty game for consoles , such a shame to see SEGA Japan all but give up on the consoles
[/size][size=78%] [/size]
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If a game doesn't have any content then you don't have a game . Again just by having content does not mean a game is orginial. And more people will buy Dark Souls II Scholar I willing to bet .
As always you're projecting your own opinion of what you thought I said to what I actually said.
I have very clearly stressed content means games and both Ishin and 0 are new content for consumers. When Yakuza 6 happens, irregardless of console, I very much would call it new content. As I've said several times, you seem to be only looking at AAA content and not content of any kind that is directly aimed at core users. Or content as volume of gameplay which again is never what I said.
Well the way SOJ is going you'll only be playing their major games on the mobiles .
And I welcome the mobile games they put out since they usually are enjoyable.
But you're kidding yourself if you think that SEGA Japan will slowly stop making major console games, as I've said and proved, every Japanese publisher will have a major console series that sells well, the Sonics, the Metal Gears etc and pump their budgets into those titles. On the side they will have multiple mobile games and that's the way forward for them unless they enter exclusivity deals with the likes of Sony, which prop up titles like Yakuza, Deep Down and Street Fighter.
I don't think that was George point, but the fact is for the last 3 generations at least those publishers have done well off the back of their AAA games .
No it is exactly what George said and if you recall the likes of EA suffered heavy losses thanks to AAA gaming. What did they do? Double down on games that sell and consolidate around them. EA's retail release has dropped from 70+ games a year to 10 - 15 games a year, this is it, this is the core point, that content released by the major publishers have all shriveled and dried up. Except the likes of the console makers.
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You guys think Sega will do another MMO sometime, other than PSO2? I woudn't mind them evolving PSO2 into different genres like Card III did.
Heck they have their own Online R&D Dept., I just found out.
In the Arcade they support up to 6 networked games, and on the mobile there are also several.
As Arcades are dying in Japan, I think they will put more resources simulating the success of PSO2. Given the genres Sega did Online before, we can expect table games, RTS, Arena Shooter or Card battles...
Valkyria Chronicles Online?
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We can't even get PSO2 in the west...
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We can't even get PSO2 in the west...
Yeah...I guess another Japan-only MMO :P Sega loves Asia-only things we can't play...
Seriously tough...they screwed that up bad. And it's not even "we can't do it its too expensive thing", its a missed oppurtunity for another cashcow. I hope the success of Valkyria Chronicles on Steam pressures them.
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The biggest mess is how they are handling it. They treat it like it doesn't exist. I just don't understand why they can't give a reason.
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Personally I think its part of a contract with that asian company that SOJ put out. Though why even bother announcing it at PAX? What happen? Why did they not bring it?
Personally think its because MMO and online games like that are on the way out. More people are playing MOBA games now and don't really want to play MMOs as they used to, even if free. Tho I think PSO 2 would have cornered a niche anime/Japanese market.
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Well Sega got a MOBA too...in Arcades.
And isn't Total War turning into a MOBA?
And Chaos Heroes Online got a JP localization from Sega.
Yeah, Sega got them MOBA's...they could turn PSO into a MOBA (I bet they would do that)
Tough I MMO's aren't waining in popularity, generic Korean MMO's still make good money...
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I was talking mostly about the American market, MMOs have been on a decline for awhile. EA invested a shit ton of money into Bioware's Knight of the old Republic MMO and it was a total flop: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-08-ea-blames-star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-on-casuals-leaving-game (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-08-ea-blames-star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-on-casuals-leaving-game)
Recently Bethesta's Elders Scrolls Online went free-to-play, doubt it will last online more than a year from this point forward.
These are two really large IPs in America and both have trouble finding success. I can see why people higher up in SEGA America might be a little scared to release it.
Yeah they have a MOBA in arcades, don't know if its good. The issue is everyone is doing mobas and its already crowded. SEGA waited too long, Blizzard might even have trouble getting their game to get as big of an audience as DOTA and LOL. Not to mention games like Smite, Heroes of Newerth, Infinite Crisis and more are announced all the time.
Another issue is SEGA is really bad at updating online games and doubt they can take updating/balancing the way Valve and Riot have with their games.
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Last time I heard that spefically Korean MMO's still do decently enough in the American/European market.
About that Arcade MOBA (which will never get ported anyway), we don't really know if any of the games Sega makes in Arcades are good...until they make lots of money, which means it's addicting, and in some ways good I guess.
Anywho, yeah the Online market for these games is tough and crowded. Tough I think Sega's got unique enough content to stand out...
And of course, Sega in the West has never really been proven to handle an Online games in a comptent way. In Japan tough I think, they are pretty good at it.
Square Enix announced Gunslinger Stratos (Team-based shooter) and Lords of Vermillion (MOBA) for PC...and Namco Bandai has Rise of Incarnicates going currently, and some F2P (probably Action-RPG) coming out for Wii U.
It just got me thinking how the Japanese market is changing on PC, and what Sega could/will do in the future. It's interresting.
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FFXIV is apparently doing really well in the west, and its a monthly pay to play. PSO2 would of been free to play. I think it would of done well. If they ever do still decide to bring it west I'll definitely play it. In the mean time, I might check out the FFXIV free Trial and see what all the hype is about.
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Hell sometimes I still shoot up Blue Burst so hell yea I would play PSO2
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Total war is getting a MOBA game but isn't going the route in a committed manner. It'll get made and supported, but Total war games will still come as they go.
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I'm not a huge mmo fan in any way, but would definitely play pso2.
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I'm not a huge mmo fan in any way, but would definitely play pso2.
I share these sentiments.
Also wtf is a MOBA anyway? I watched a few videos of them and they look like RTS games for simpletons... You control just one guy? What is the rest of the army doing? Why is there a base but not base building? What is even the objective...
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Basically its like a mix of a RTS fighting game...
Its really hard to explain without just playing it. I have over 500 games in League of Legends and was really addicted to the game for awhile. Trust me, Ryan, don't. You been addicted to RTS, this shit will ruin you.
Maybe someone that speaks your language can explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_78J6FEouM
(start at 3:20ish)
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Basically its like a mix of a RTS fighting game...
Its really hard to explain without just playing it. I have over 500 games in League of Legends and was really addicted to the game for awhile. Trust me, Ryan, don't. You been addicted to RTS, this shit will ruin you.
Maybe someone that speaks your language can explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_78J6FEouM
(start at 3:20ish)
So it is pretty much Warcraft 3?
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DOTA, the first MOBA was a mod for Warcraft 3.
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I should not care, but the GAF discussion on Sega makes me kinda annoyed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=984500
Yeah cuz Nintendo and Sega are such a great fit huh....
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I share these sentiments.
Also wtf is a MOBA anyway? I watched a few videos of them and they look like RTS games for simpletons... You control just one guy? What is the rest of the army doing? Why is there a base but not base building? What is even the objective...
RTS fans call MOBAs 'One unit RTS games' as an insult. My understanding is you basically control one 'Hero' unit that has abilities. It's like a blend between RTS and MMO or something? I don't know, but I have no interest in playing them, or MMO games.
I think they are popular because they have a lower learning curve than RTS, but still have a high enough ceiling to keep playing.
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I should not care, but the GAF discussion on Sega makes me kinda annoyed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=984500
Yeah cuz Nintendo and Sega are such a great fit huh....
Nintendo leaves plenty of classic franchises on the table. Been over a decade since the last F-Zero game, the Metroid series won't have seen a new entry since 2010 and even further back for a good one (2007) what I expect people who want Nintendo to buy SEGA to do is just remake all these classic games or new entries, which just won't happen.
That and SEGA Sammy is what, worth $4 billion? Their physical assets alone are worth more than a billion dollars, does Nintendo have the cash to avoid them?
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The argument is buying Sega Japan. They however, still contribute to a large asset of Sega Sammy's revenue (35-40%)
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NeoGAF is a fucking joke. Just be glad they aren't saying Anita Sarkeesian should buy Sega anmd remake all their franchises with more People of Colour and Trans people.
Having said that, I would totally buy a Yakuza game where you play as a pre-op M2F trans if the gameplay was intact.
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Ah...I usually ignore anything on NeoGAF that is a big topic (current big games, or Internet drama). It still is a bigger community even for more niche games (30 pages for Valk on PC and Y5, countless small OT threads)
I don't like their Mods...been a victim of a ban, and lots of good people that made countless posts get banned after one strike.
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SEGA is a big part of SEGA Sammy holdings and aren't being let go of anytime soon, but I suppose the Nintendo fans can keep dreaming. lol.
Persona, Yakuza, Miku, Sonic, Total War, Football Manger, PSO2, Mobile Games, PC RTS game domination. SEGA is a powerhouse right now. They aren't dying anytime soon.
I'm not a huge mmo fan in any way, but would definitely play pso2.
Yeah. Playing FFXIV this morning reminded me why I've generally never liked MMO's. They are confusing, slow, and time consuming. I want PSO2 localized so bad. Get it on PS4 (and XBOX One if MS is no longer being jerks about cross platform play). No reason it wouldn't be a success. Its free to play and you destroy things in fast paced combat. People love that kind of gameplay. It's not anything like an MMO.
Game also has some really sick CGI openings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm1ZPgxStE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm1ZPgxStE4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6pvGoaAW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6pvGoaAW0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCtBS-sHOg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCtBS-sHOg)
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NeoGAF is a fucking joke. Just be glad they aren't saying Anita Sarkeesian should buy Sega anmd remake all their franchises with more People of Colour and Trans people.
Having said that, I would totally buy a Yakuza game where you play as a pre-op M2F trans if the gameplay was intact.
"I'm not gay at all! I just enjoy sucking on pre-op M2F trans cock."
I heard this one once, cracked up like a peanut.
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RTS fans call MOBAs 'One unit RTS games' as an insult. My understanding is you basically control one 'Hero' unit that has abilities. It's like a blend between RTS and MMO or something? I don't know, but I have no interest in playing them, or MMO games.
I think they are popular because they have a lower learning curve than RTS, but still have a high enough ceiling to keep playing.
Learning curve than RTS? I find RTS to be easier to play, MOBAs are more highly competitive imo.
The thing is, controlling multiple armies doesn't make a game harder or deeper and even then, making a game harder to pick up is just bad game design. MOBAs are about working as a team of 5, it has more in common with Football (UK, aka SOCCER) and Basketball than it does with RTS games.
You have 5 people having their or separate jobs in the map, you need map control, you need to do last hits on minions, you need to poke and you need to get powers that will help your enemies in team fights. You have objectives in the maps you have to beat people to, its just a game where you play 40 minutes of trying to outsmart the other team.
There is a reason why the tournaments are huge for these games and will continue to grow. They are some of the most highly competitive games out right now due to always balancing and changing the game, keeping it fresh years after release (LOL came out in 2008).
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Learning curve than RTS? I find RTS to be easier to play, MOBAs are more highly competitive imo.
This is probably referring to keyboard shortcuts. In a MOBA with few exceptions, most keyboard shortcuts are focused on one character whether it be AOE or otherwise.
Total war isn't that hard to manage without keyboard shortcuts since you have a pause function. In a game like Starcraft, not knowing the bindings to your units or buildings will most assuredly put you at a disadvantage from a tactical standpoint to someone who does, consequently surrendering map control ect....whether this is described as a learning curve or not I guess depends on how a player interprets the design of the game/control
Personally I don't find most RTS's that hard to play, and I find most MOBA's to be even easier than even them. I do agree that MOBA's are more competitive of the two however.
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SEGA is a big part of SEGA Sammy holdings and aren't being let go of anytime soon, but I suppose the Nintendo fans can keep dreaming. lol.
Persona, Yakuza, Miku, Sonic, Total War, Football Manger, PSO2, Mobile Games, PC RTS game domination. SEGA is a powerhouse right now. They aren't dying anytime soon.
Yeah. Playing FFXIV this morning reminded me why I've generally never liked MMO's. They are confusing, slow, and time consuming. I want PSO2 localized so bad. Get it on PS4 (and XBOX One if MS is no longer being jerks about cross platform play). No reason it wouldn't be a success. Its free to play and you destroy things in fast paced combat. People love that kind of gameplay. It's not anything like an MMO.
Game also has some really sick CGI openings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm1ZPgxStE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm1ZPgxStE4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6pvGoaAW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6pvGoaAW0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCtBS-sHOg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCtBS-sHOg)
Those are really good trailers actually, gets me excited even though I shouldn't be cause Sega doesn't love me..
George, didn't know that's where DOTA came from. Sort of like how CS was a HL mod, cool stuff.
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Nintendo leaves plenty of classic franchises on the table. Been over a decade since the last F-Zero game, the Metroid series won't have seen a new entry since 2010 and even further back for a good one (2007) what I expect people who want Nintendo to buy SEGA to do is just remake all these classic games or new entries, which just won't happen.
That and SEGA Sammy is what, worth $4 billion? Their physical assets alone are worth more than a billion dollars, does Nintendo have the cash to avoid them?
See it always ticks me off when people say that Nintendo should be buying SEGA because they'll make a game for [insert dormant property here], when indeed Nintendo themselves haven't touched certain highly requested properties themselves for a long time. Nintendo ever buying SEGA would only use the Sonic property and maybe one or two more popular franchises...everything else would stay dormant.
At least Atlus now has a chance to make a game from a SEGA IP if they desire to do so.
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I wouldnt want nintendo to buy SEGA period. But I do know that sonic's portrayal in smash bros is extremely satisfying.
My point is that I do wish SEGA as a company valued their IP's to the extent of nintendo. Having a strong identity and respecting them into detail. I mean at the end of the day it depends on how good of a taste the production lead has. Id say right now its not all that good.
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Personally felt that Sonic Generations was a better tribute to Sonic fans than Smash.
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Again you're mistaking AAA content as the only content when that isn't the case.
Just don't come it . I made out that porting a PS3 game to the PS4 is hardly an original game , its a port . Assassin's Creed Unity is a totally original 'production'|(read not IP) for the next gen , built with new tech and takes advantage of extra power of this gen and also has bags full of content . That what's SEGA Japan should really be doing with Yakuza imo
When Yakuza 6 happens, irregardless of console, I very much would call it new content
A port by in large doesn't have new content its just a port and correct me if I'm wrong but PS 4 Ishi doesn't offer any new content over the PS3 version . And also its such a ridiculous thing to say anways . Any new game in a series will have new content even if it plays exactly the same , even games like each new Mario will have new content for each new game same of each new GT or Forza game .
But you're kidding yourself if you think that SEGA Japan will slowly stop making major console games, as I've said and proved
You're kidding your self . Its quite clear the direction Sammy is taking SEGA in and that's away from being a major player in the consoles , Still if you happy with the SEGA Japan on the mobile then good for you , in 10 years time it all they'll be good at.
George said and if you recall the likes of EA suffered heavy losses thanks to AAA gaming.
Looking over the massive losses SEGA it' self have made (even some when under Sammy) I would put to you those losses were done for long term gains in terms of the NFL Deal, buying the likes of Bioware and Dice.
EA's retail release has dropped from 70+ games a year to 10 - 15 games a year
List those 70 games EA produce in just one year ? . EA is very productive and sure the game numbers have gone down but that's a reflection of what it takes to make big games and the fact that these days people are selective in the games they buy . SEGA Japan production on the consoles is poor by most of the major studio standards .
That and SEGA Sammy is what, worth $4 billion? Their physical assets alone are worth more than a billion dollars, does Nintendo have the cash to avoid them?
NCL could buy SEGA and Sammy and still have plenty of cash left in the bank. Aren't Nintendo cash reserves alone something like 13 billion dollars . Not that Nintendo would mind , SEGA have nothing to offer Nintendo .
You guys think Sega will do another MMO sometime, other than PSO2
PSO isn't a true MMO RPG really . But I would imagine they might for Asia most prob for the tablets and phones :(
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Just don't come it . I made out that porting a PS3 game to the PS4 is hardly an original game , its a port . Assassin's Creed Unity is a totally original 'production'|(read not IP) for the next gen , built with new tech and takes advantage of extra power of this gen and also has bags full of content . That what's SEGA Japan should really be doing with Yakuza imo
You're failing to grasp the point as usual.
Content is video games, we are talking about new content, IE not a remake or remaster. We do not care if the content is cutting edge or not only if it's a good game. You first held a tunnel vision thanks to your AAA bias and now you're failing to understand the various instances of the word "content"
If you keep this up just stop getting yourself involved in these discussions.
A port by in large doesn't have new content its just a port and correct me if I'm wrong but PS 4 Ishi doesn't offer any new content over the PS3 version . And also its such a ridiculous thing to say anways . Any new game in a series will have new content even if it plays exactly the same , even games like each new Mario will have new content for each new game same of each new GT or Forza game .
As usual you're trying to throw the initial point in the long grass, the fact is Ishin is new gaming content. I never mentioned any of those games as not being new, the recent Mario is a new game, Forza 6 is a new game, The Last of Us remastered is not a new game = not new content, that's why I excluded Puyo Tetris from the new content moniker. This is not difficult to understand.
You're kidding your self . Its quite clear the direction Sammy is taking SEGA in and that's away from being a major player in the consoles , Still if you happy with the SEGA Japan on the mobile then good for you , in 10 years time it all they'll be good at.
You're kidding yourself if you disagree with my point that Japanese publishers in general aren't heading this direction and are going to centralise around a few select IPs. If you think SEGA Japan will completely stop making console games than you'll find yourself proven wrong, as long as Sonic is a major seller in the West then he'll continue to appear on consoles.
Looking over the massive losses SEGA it' self have made (even some when under Sammy) I would put to you those losses were done for long term gains in terms of the NFL Deal, buying the likes of Bioware and Dice.
Electronic Art's losses were not due to just those deals, an accumulated $1.5 billion in the red isn't down to any deal making. It's shown with the drastic reduction in their releases that more games failed than they hoped.
List those 70 games EA produce in just one year ? . EA is very productive and sure the game numbers have gone down but that's a reflection of what it takes to make big games and the fact that these days people are selective in the games they buy . SEGA Japan production on the consoles is poor by most of the major studio standards .
There's clearly more than 70 titles in 2009 and probably over 100 different skus http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/619-electronic-arts
It's selective for you isn't it? We can apply the same sort of reasoning for Electronic Arts downscaling on SEGA then titles like Miku, Sonic, Yakuza and Phantasy Star are MASSIVELY bigger than their prior entries but please keep one eye shut on everyone but SEGA.
And of course please ignore that Capcom only has like what, 3 major original titles this year? Konami has 2 major original titles but no, let's focus on SEGA who still has comparable number of titles. The only ones that outstrip the Japanese developers are Western publishers and we're including their non-native studios to get there.
NCL could buy SEGA and Sammy and still have plenty of cash left in the bank. Aren't Nintendo cash reserves alone something like 13 billion dollars . Not that Nintendo would mind , SEGA have nothing to offer Nintendo .
Nintendo's cash reserves is $10.8 billion.
SEGA Sammy's cash reserves is $1.9 billion.
Nintendo's total physical assets is $10 billion.
SEGA Sammy's physical assets is $5 billion.
To purchase SEGA Sammy Nintendo would have to spend far in excess of the $4 billion I quoted, that'd probably be just for the SEGA part of the company, with Sammy it's going to be over Nintendo's cash reserves.
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See it always ticks me off when people say that Nintendo should be buying SEGA because they'll make a game for [insert dormant property here], when indeed Nintendo themselves haven't touched certain highly requested properties themselves for a long time. Nintendo ever buying SEGA would only use the Sonic property and maybe one or two more popular franchises...everything else would stay dormant.
At least Atlus now has a chance to make a game from a SEGA IP if they desire to do so.
Exactly. Nintendo isn't some sort of magical savior who'll revive every single one of SEGA's IPs, we're/I'm still waiting on a new Advance Wars!
And Nintendo is an even worse in IP selection, if a title fails to sell a million they often place that title back in their catalogue. People don't realise it but if a title fails to sell a million Nintendo often locks out said franchise for a very long time.
I wouldnt want nintendo to buy SEGA period. But I do know that sonic's portrayal in smash bros is extremely satisfying.
My point is that I do wish SEGA as a company valued their IP's to the extent of nintendo. Having a strong identity and respecting them into detail. I mean at the end of the day it depends on how good of a taste the production lead has. Id say right now its not all that good.
I disagree with this, outside of the failed attempt at giving SEGA America to handle reboots (SEGA Europe was so much superior with the likes of Sonic Racing and SEGA Rally Revo.) and Sonic, what lack of love do you think SEGA showed their IPs?
I mean I get it if Sonic Generations wasn't for you, but like George said it's clearly a good game and Sonic Team did put a lot of love in it and it shows.
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One thing to note is that because of it's position as a top dog, Nintendo attracts lots of prospective developers. And so, many of the best people out there will work for Nintendo.
It's like why do you think Barcelona has such strong youth teams? Because just by being Barcelona kids want to play there, so the best ones stay in the club and in turn become superstars at the first team, which leads to more wins and recognition.
This also happens in gaming.
Sega was once bigger than Nintendo, do not forget this. And at this time Sega dev teams were filled to the brink with some of the best people in the industry. After the fallout, this changed.
I'm not saying Sega employees are shit nowdays. But the high concentration of talent in Nintendo makes their games better. This gives the illusion of them "caring about their IPs". It's easy to give some examples of Nintendo goofballing their IPs, but the gameplay still being top notch. Take a look at the Metroids and StarFoxes. F-Zero has been shelved for how long now? And why is Wario limited to casual minigames?
So yeah, Nintendo is just as shit at handeling their IPs as anybody else. BUT, the games have a certain superior quality to them at this point.
I've seen Sega trying their best to revive Golden Axe for example, but the quality just wasn't present.. what if it was?
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Nintendo is it's own thing. They are smaller, release less games and are conservative. They publish about 7 games a year, and at least most of them are of decent quality. They never really chaned since the 80's, in my mind.
I like that they are truly global, most of the time. Sega lost that
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Learning curve than RTS? I find RTS to be easier to play, MOBAs are more highly competitive imo.
The thing is, controlling multiple armies doesn't make a game harder or deeper and even then, making a game harder to pick up is just bad game design. MOBAs are about working as a team of 5, it has more in common with Football (UK, aka SOCCER) and Basketball than it does with RTS games.
You have 5 people having their or separate jobs in the map, you need map control, you need to do last hits on minions, you need to poke and you need to get powers that will help your enemies in team fights. You have objectives in the maps you have to beat people to, its just a game where you play 40 minutes of trying to outsmart the other team.
There is a reason why the tournaments are huge for these games and will continue to grow. They are some of the most highly competitive games out right now due to always balancing and changing the game, keeping it fresh years after release (LOL came out in 2008).
I'm not saying they aren't competitive or have depth, just that they probably seem less imposing to newcomers and are less taxing execution wise from my understanding.
I think a big part of their success is that the big 2 are free to play as well.
I mean I get it if Sonic Generations wasn't for you, but like George said it's clearly a good game
As someone who played the game for about 10 minutes I can safely say you're wrong. It's fucking garbage and has end of the world monsters.
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As someone who played the game for about 10 minutes I can safely say you're wrong. It's fucking garbage and has end of the world monsters.
I know you like talking shit about Sonic, but in this case you've lost it.
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As someone who played the game for about 10 minutes I can safely say you're wrong. It's fucking garbage and has end of the world monsters.
Not cool mang. Not cool.
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I know you like talking shit about Sonic, but in this case you've lost it.
Not cool mang. Not cool.
Turn on game: Sonic with ten million furry friends, giant end of the world monster, cutscene that would probably have gone for forty minutes had I not skipped it.
Okay, let's try the game.
BOOST BOOST BOOST BOOST with twenty versions of beach levels and seventy-eight versions of city levels, mostly from horrible Sonic games and only one level each from the only actual good games in the series (Sonic 1, 2, 3 and Knuckles).
The tennis segment wasn't even fun.
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Kind of want to tell Mang more about the Time Eater but I myself got disappointed I spoiled myself about it.
Also Speed Highway is a classic level : <
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Kind of want to tell Mang more about the Time Eater
More like Dick Eater, that game was so bad.
You know a game is terrible when I can say that after having only played five minutes of it. :afroman: :afroman: :afroman: :afroman: :afroman:
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Is it worth having a discussion with you when you take sense one minute, and then act like a trollololol ass the second?
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Is it worth having a discussion with you when you take sense one minute, and then act like a trollololol ass the second?
This topic seems to be a mish mash of nonsense already anyway. Also I was surprised people took my post seriously at all, it was too tempting to pick it up and run with it.
Having said that I don't think Sonic Gens looks very good at all and I don't really have any desire to play any more of it. One level per game kills any remaining enthusiasm I might have had.
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I kind of feel MadeMan on this. Gens is a game that honestly feels worse from a certain perspective every time I play it. The level design is kind of garbage; the reliance on boosting and homing attacking your way through the levels really shines a spot light on just how poorly Sonic controls in a 3d space as the game would be literally unplayable without those abilities. The bosses are mostly junk, the story is barebones, and the level selection is morbidly bad. The music/visuals are nice and the game has its heart in the right place but from a gameplay perspective it is certainly not the messiah many make it out to be. Far from it. A game where Sonic controls so poorly as he does in the boost games fundamentally is broken.
Another thing to note is that context is everything. After monstrosities like 06, Shadow, Black Knight, and Unleashed, Colors/Gens look good by comparison. Really damn good. But if Gens was the first game you've played since the megadrive games or even SA1, you might not be impressed. Most of us had the luxury of having played Unleashed first to ease us into the boost style of game too.
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Sega has never made a good 3d plattformer, there.
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Basically what this whole thread is about, someone played Sonic Generations for less than 10 minutes and wrote a review. Mademan works at IGN confirmed.
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Sega has never made a good 3d plattformer, there.
Billy Hatcher wasn't awful
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Basically what this whole thread is about, someone played Sonic Generations for less than 10 minutes and wrote a review. Mademan works at IGN confirmed.
I didn't even make it to ten minutes it was so bad!
Jokes aside, I played Dengeki Buko Climax yesterday, I feel my comments about it being a poverty fighter are 100% justified, and can add that the game is pure, unadulterated shit. But it's also kinda fun.
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Billy Hatcher wasn't awful
I was just joking, actually. But really, people blow the hate on some Sonic games out of proportion...
I'd say Billy Hatcher really has alot of the similar problems of recent Sonic games. Generally unrefined, clunky etc. You're right it's not awful, but personally I would count the awful Sonic games on one hand...
Not to mention Jet Set Radio really felt clunky to play too IMO, even at the time. Personally I thought the Sonic Adventure games just felt way better to play...yeah it had good music and art, but Sonic has that too.
JSRF and Sonic Adventure 2 had the best 3d platform control of any Sega game IMO.
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Content is video games, we are talking about new content
And there's none of that in Yakuza on the PS4 . It's no different from the likes of Gun being on the 360 - It was just the Xbox version running in higher res- The game and the games content was exactly the same otherwise and I'll say again content doesn't make a game original . A original game or original content is something we haven't seen before . A copy of a painting is hardly original now is it .
The Last of Us remastered is not a new game = not new content, that's why I excluded Puyo Tetris from the new content moniker. This is not difficult to understand
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Yes Last of Us on the PS4 isn't new and just a port and Yakuza Ishi on the PS4 is just that a PS3 game running on the PS4.
You're kidding yourself if you disagree with my point that Japanese publishers in general aren't heading this direction and are going to centralise around a few select IPs
Konami seems to be going into that direction , with if anything a bigger and more successful digital mobile arm. The others are still investing heavily in next gen gaming and engines . Its not like any of the major corps be that in the west aren't on mobile's (EA does better than SEGA on the mobile after all) but they also make sure that they have major AAA console productions , unlike SEGA Japan that seems more and more focus on the mobile .
Electronic Art's losses were not due to just those deals, an accumulated $1.5 billion in the red isn't down to any deal making
Rubbish . The NFL deal alone cost EA $300 million dollars , EA then spend over $860 million on getting Bioware and Pandemic . That's near enough $1.5 billion there . Now the NFL deal and the likes of the Bioware deals are paying off and EA
There's clearly more than 70 titles in 2009 and probably over 100 different skus
Lol so we're reduce to counting the same game that just happens to appear on different formats and mobile and tablet games . Well on that score EA are making more than 10 or 15 games a year even now .
To purchase SEGA Sammy Nintendo would have to spend far in excess of the $4 billion I quoted, that'd probably be just for the SEGA part of the company,
NCL can from its cash reserves alone and you know it, not that it would want to . When it comes to cash in the bank , NCL are better than most , even Sammy .
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I think Nintendo fans are always lining up to kiss their ass, Nintendo has way better PR and can really convince people of shitty things. Like their new YouTube revenue 'sharing' (aka taking) program. I have seen lots of fans justify it as 'Well, at least now we can stream Nintendo Let's Plays, unlike the past, so this is good.'
Not to mention, if Nintendo makes a bad game it either isn't complained about as much as SEGA or its a 'underrated' gem to Nintendo fans. Like Mario Sunshine? Come on. Even their New Super Mario Bros games have really mediocre level design.
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Uhhhh Mario Sunshine, for all the hate it gets(which by the way is usually based around the game's reliance on FLUDD) is way better than any 3d Sonic game. Period.
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Its better than Generations? Your delusional. That game is really bad. Maybe you just don't like 3D sonic games. But Generations was a better 3D sonic game than Mario Sunshine was a a 3D Mario game.
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And there's none of that in Yakuza on the PS4 . It's no different from the likes of Gun being on the 360 - It was just the Xbox version running in higher res- The game and the games content was exactly the same otherwise and I'll say again content doesn't make a game original . A original game or original content is something we haven't seen before . A copy of a painting is hardly original now is it .
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Your AAA bias is showing again. This isn't about a game being revolutionary or not, this is about SEGA producing content for core gamers, not remasters, not remakes but new content.
You seem to be confused and constantly project what you think I said to what you want me to say when I have. Ishin, regardless of what console it is on, is new content because it was a brand new production made by SEGA.
Yes Last of Us on the PS4 isn't new and just a port and Yakuza Ishi on the PS4 is just that a PS3 game running on the PS4.
You've missed the point again.
Ishin is new content because its a brand new game SEGA made. If I said The Last of Us Remastered is an example of Sony making new games I would be wrong, it isn't, if I said Ryu Ga Gotoku Zero is an example of SEGA making new games, I would be correct. Not hard to grasp.
Konami seems to be going into that direction , with if anything a bigger and more successful digital mobile arm. The others are still investing heavily in next gen gaming and engines . Its not like any of the major corps be that in the west aren't on mobile's (EA does better than SEGA on the mobile after all) but they also make sure that they have major AAA console productions , unlike SEGA Japan that seems more and more focus on the mobile .
See for you a company pushing the envelope is investing in gaming. For me a company investing in making core games is a company investing in core games, simple as. Not investing in making cutting edge games is not an indication that they are moving away from core games at all.
Rubbish . The NFL deal alone cost EA $300 million dollars , EA then spend over $860 million on getting Bioware and Pandemic . That's near enough $1.5 billion there . Now the NFL deal and the likes of the Bioware deals are paying off and EA
If you noticed, because you always overlook basic points, I said accumulated, as in including EA's profits as well. If we take just the losses, Electronic Arts has lost $3.9 billion. So no, the losses aren't just down to the purchase and NFL agreement.
And what's wrong with your math? 300 + 860 = 1,160. That's 340 off, not "near enough" it's a whole year's worth of profits.
Lol so we're reduce to counting the same game that just happens to appear on different formats and mobile and tablet games . Well on that score EA are making more than 10 or 15 games a year even now .
Again selective reading. I still stated there was 70 different games, with different SKUs its over 100, a very conservative estimations considering EA had 5 SKUs for one game, we're probably looking at over 150 different SKUs. So yes, EA's content has gone down drastically .
NCL can from its cash reserves alone and you know it, not that it would want to . When it comes to cash in the bank , NCL are better than most , even Sammy .
The SEGA side is worth more than $4 billion, the Sammy side, which now owns a massive resort complex in South Korea, is probably double that. Nintendo would have to use up all of their cash reserves and than raise some capitals.
I could take out a mortgage to purchase a house worth a couple of million pounds, would I be able to afford it? Probably not. Having the funds alone isn't the only way to determine if someone can afford something but their long term health as well.
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Its better than Generations? Your delusional. That game is really bad.
How so? It has a wonderfully cohesive atmosphere, solid to good gameplay, creative level design and amazing music. Sure, the FLUDD can get in the way of the fun but the camera is rarely a problem and the game oozes charm. The controls are tight and the game has polish to spare.
Maybe you just don't like 3D sonic games. But Generations was a better 3D sonic game than Mario Sunshine was a a 3D Mario game.
Ahhh well herein lies a very crucial distinction. I suppose you could argue that Mario Sunshine somehow drops the ball when compared to its lineage of groundbreaking games like 64 and Galaxy, and in that regard was a disappointment. It's true that its relatively unambitious and small compared to the aforementioned titles but it's still a very good game on its own.
Generations is a tricky beast to compare. It doesn't have the polish that Sunshine has; that much is objectively true. It's not that the game is glitchy but it's just not as tightly made. The controls when not boosting or homing attacking are downright awful. Try playing a single level by just running and jumping. I dare you; it's a disaster. In that sense the game itself is fundamentally inferior to Sunshine, which for all its woes controls comfortably. Stacked onto Sonic's control issues are a number of very poorly designed levels that rely heavily on trial and error and twitch gameplay. Not fun. Additionally, the bosses felt half baked especially the final encounter. It's one thing to be boring (sunshine's final boss) and its another to be flat out borderline unplayable (gen's final boss).
We could go all day arguing about visuals and music, but I think the games are pretty evenly matched in that regard. Considering all these things, Sunshine is still a much better game imo than Generations. ST still has a long way to go to even begin to compete for that crown I'm afraid.
And as for Gens being a great "Sonic game," I think that's up for debate as well depending on what the brand means to you. For someone like me that favors the platforming side of Sonic over his speed based antics, Gens is somewhat of a travesty.
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Has TA ever agreed with anybody?
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Gotta g with george here rappy. Mario sunshine is a tedious and boring game. The asigments just arent that fun despite all the pros you've listed. Many people praise the fludless stages in the game the most and i have to agree. I actually think the whole asigment structure from the original 3d mario games are kind of overrated, but particularly sunshine really did a bad job in making them fun to do. Mario sunshine is a good example of what csn go wrong when one crucial aspect gets overlooked, which is how i feel about every sonic game when it comes to controls
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How so? It has a wonderfully cohesive atmosphere, solid to good gameplay, creative level design and amazing music. Sure, the FLUDD can get in the way of the fun but the camera is rarely a problem and the game oozes charm. The controls are tight and the game has polish to spare.
Ahhh well herein lies a very crucial distinction. I suppose you could argue that Mario Sunshine somehow drops the ball when compared to its lineage of groundbreaking games like 64 and Galaxy, and in that regard was a disappointment. It's true that its relatively unambitious and small compared to the aforementioned titles but it's still a very good game on its own.
Generations is a tricky beast to compare. It doesn't have the polish that Sunshine has; that much is objectively true. It's not that the game is glitchy but it's just not as tightly made. The controls when not boosting or homing attacking are downright awful. Try playing a single level by just running and jumping. I dare you; it's a disaster. In that sense the game itself is fundamentally inferior to Sunshine, which for all its woes controls comfortably. Stacked onto Sonic's control issues are a number of very poorly designed levels that rely heavily on trial and error and twitch gameplay. Not fun. Additionally, the bosses felt half baked especially the final encounter. It's one thing to be boring (sunshine's final boss) and its another to be flat out borderline unplayable (gen's final boss).
We could go all day arguing about visuals and music, but I think the games are pretty evenly matched in that regard. Considering all these things, Sunshine is still a much better game imo than Generations. ST still has a long way to go to even begin to compete for that crown I'm afraid.
And as for Gens being a great "Sonic game," I think that's up for debate as well depending on what the brand means to you. For someone like me that favors the platforming side of Sonic over his speed based antics, Gens is somewhat of a travesty.
Just going to have to agree to disagree, I think Sunshine is one of the most tedious and probably the worse 3D Mario game I have ever played. I think Nintendo gets a pass on being lazy with games, See New Super Mario on the DS. I'm serious, sit down and look at the level designs, it almost feels like someone just ran a script to put random holes and bad guys everywhere. There is no rhythm or difficultly to it. Yet I bought into the hype of it being 'as good as Mario 3', which it wasn't be a long shot. Yet stating the obvious on that game is frowned upon on the internet.
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The new super mario games are pretty damn lame; I'll definitely toast to that.
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A simply question, how did you add depth to a 3D Plane in a Sonic game without the boost or the homing attack? That's the deal.
I agree about the not total 360º movement for Sonic with the Boost Formula off is sluggish but at least they try to make a really compelling one and hey ,in Lost World, they implemented another one without the Boost, with Spindash and complete 360º controls. ..just forget the rushed level design and the "not obligatory" Nintendo scheme and system that damage this game to being only good steps in the right direction.
And you know what have in favor Gens for that missing things? Power-Ups(to use as an extra), various routes, cohesion in level progress, not-tedious gameplay, simple mecanics, rewarding for explore and for have good reflexs and most important: PLATFORMING.
Since Heroes I didn't see so much emphasis in that in another console Sonic game before (although I like that game I see in where this has its problems like the long levels and the repetition in the same ones).
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Guys I think we're getting a little bit off topic on the subject here. Let's continue discussing about SEGA of America job cuts and restructure.
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@Nirmugen
I think people realise that its quickly played out after a couple of games. Unleashed introduced it, sonic colors made it decent, sonic generations perfected it. Its time to move on imho. We need something better.. Or I mean, SEGA needs something better
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Yet people here praise the same boring Mario games?
Just perfecting the gameplay is the tip of the iceberg. If they can get Knuckles and Tails their own gameplay that is actually fun and unique, it could work. Its something they couldn't get to work, but if people want slower platforming, I think having Knuckles as the playable character would work.
Don't slow down Sonic, I don't think he needs it.
I think the issue with Sonic Team in 1998 is they went all in. Having to design Sonic's mechanic, but also others like Big the Cat, Omega, Knuckles etc. When they announced Sonic Adventure 2 (rumor) it wasn't going to have 6 playable characters, but that changed due to fans or whatever.
So Sonic Team never sat down and actually tried to please fans with Sonic's gameplay. Now they went back to basics, like you said did a good job and you want them to start over from scratch?
No.
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ST hasn't perfected anything. Gens was just their latest pass at putting make up on a pig. It looks great but is fundamentally broken under the surface. No amount of rainbow ring, homing attack chain, or empty boosting segment is going to change that Sonic controls terribly and that the levels are poorly designed.
You might find Mario games boring George, but at least they're polished, playable, and have reliable controls and physics. I'm not sure what you even mean with that generalization? Even if you didn't like Sunshine SMG, SMG2, M3dL, and M3dW are all phenomenal.
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ST hasn't perfected anything. Gens was just their latest pass at putting make up on a pig. It looks great but is fundamentally broken under the surface. No amount of rainbow ring, homing attack chain, or empty boosting segment is going to change that Sonic controls terribly and that the levels are poorly designed.
You might find Mario games boring George, but at least they're polished, playable, and have reliable controls and physics. I'm not sure what you even mean with that generalization? Even if you didn't like Sunshine SMG, SMG2, M3dL, and M3dW are all phenomenal.
The levels aren't poorly designed. There exactly the type of levels they should have been striving for for the longest time and I think it shows with how many people actively like Generations and have been screaming out for a sequel to it.
Granted they're not as good as Yasuhara's but than his level designs would run circles against any other platformer.
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The levels aren't poorly designed. There exactly the type of levels they should have been striving for for the longest time and I think it shows with how many people actively like Generations and have been screaming out for a sequel to it.
To be fair there's also tons of people who claim that Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is the best Sonic they've ever played.
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To be fair there's also tons of people who claim that Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is the best Sonic they've ever played.
Well the people who I know that liked it didn't like the lesser Sonic games so there's that.
I did like certain stages in Sonic Adventure 2 though like Crazy Gadget and The Green Hill Zone left me hoping we'd see more layered stages like that. Haha what a short lived dream.
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Modern Sonic is a racing game+platformer...and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Do you guys feel that there are any current platformers that 'feel' like classic Sonic, since Sega seems to have abandoned that notion?
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Now would be a perfect time for Aki to mention Brock Crocodile! ;)
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Do you guys feel that there are any current platformers that 'feel' like classic Sonic, since Sega seems to have abandoned that notion?
I've read some recommendations of Freedom Planet (http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/) suggesting it's an alternate-reality 2D Sonic game, if Treasure created Sonic.
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Do you guys feel that there are any current platformers that 'feel' like classic Sonic, since Sega seems to have abandoned that notion?
Now would be a perfect time for Aki to mention Brock Crocodile! ;)
I can confirm that upon playing a preview build of Brock Crocodile (Kindly disclosed to me by the creator.) it indeed has the heart of classic Sonic.
I've read some recommendations of Freedom Planet (http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/) suggesting it's an alternate-reality 2D Sonic game, if Treasure created Sonic.
Yeah that game was a Sonic fangame before being turned into it's own IP so it's the closet you'll get. Outside of like... The hordes of actual Sonic fangames.
And if not at least the level designs are Sonic like!11!!1!!
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I thought Brock was meant to be closer to Disney games in terms of gameplay? I didn't think Crocs were that fast. Having spend the better part of my adult life wrestling them, I think I'm qualified to comment on that.
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The levels aren't poorly designed. There exactly the type of levels they should have been striving for for the longest time and I think it shows with how many people actively like Generations and have been screaming out for a sequel to it.
Granted they're not as good as Yasuhara's but than his level designs would run circles against any other platformer.
That's the problem. Ever since SA1 Iizuka and friends have been intent on delivering a "fast" experience at any cost. Back then it was by putting automated dashpads on just about everything. Now-a-days it's done by offering extremely restrictive level designs. Instead of being a platformer, the game is basically a QTE. I'm not saying it plays itself, but when you're given a tiny hallway to boost through with nary an obstacle in sight for about 30 seconds, the developer's intent is clear: to deliver a shallow sense of speed and adrenaline at the cost of player interactivity. Coupled with an over abundance of homing attack chains and bottomless pits (WHY ARE THESE STILL HERE IN FORCE?) and you've got something that will appeal to hard score speed junkies and not much else. Good physics and any semblance of exploration have been thrown out completely with the bathwater. How Sonic moves through space makes close to no sense but they cover it up with boosts and homing attacks. I can shout "speed should be earned" till I'm blue(ha!) in the face but people will continue to claim that Gens was a return to form even though it clearly isn't.
Anyway, I've made it fairly clear by this point where I stand so I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. You love it, I don't; simple as that. I'm trying to hold the series to a much higher standard than what Gens offers.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWW3PgWmTcQ
I found this very entertaining rant video for Sonic
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His comment about tails at 5:00 (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) I feel his pain man
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He has a good point tough. It really is a wonder that so many people still hang on this series, if really most of the games are "misses" rather than "hits".
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He has a good point tough. It really is a wonder that so many people still hang on this series, if really most of the games are "misses" rather than "hits".
I think it's been said a few times here now, Sonic is now a bad to terrible franchise that has a small handful of good games in it.
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I think it's been said a few times here now, Sonic is now a bad to terrible franchise that has a small handful of good games in it.
You know to this day I have yet to play games like Sonic Riders and Sonic 06. The only "bad" Sonic games I've owned and played are Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed.
I wonder what fun would be had if I got to sample those, er, unique experience.
Anyway, I've made it fairly clear by this point where I stand so I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. You love it, I don't; simple as that. I'm trying to hold the series to a much higher standard than what Gens offers.
Yeah let's agree to disagree but don't make it out that I am so easily pleased compared to your lofty expectations and end your statement with a cheap shot at me.
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You know to this day I have yet to play games like Sonic Riders and Sonic 06. The only "bad" Sonic games I've owned and played are Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed.
I wonder what fun would be had if I got to sample those, er, unique experience.
You never played Sonic 06? Not even a little bit?
Oh my days, I cannot overstate how bad that game is. It's literally the single worst game I have ever played. It's just offensively bad.
I still have trouble believing it got released in the state it was in. Not just talking about bugs and 'ha that's terrible' but even just some of the design decisions were bafflingly lazy or stupid. Most notably, Tails, the character known for flying with his tails can barely fly without getting tired (not to mention he's incredibly hard to control) but his primary attack? Not jumping like Sonic, not tail-swipes that worked in other games, NO it's throwing a 'Fake Ring bomb' at enemies. WHY? It's literally a ten-ring power-up that they've copy/pasted. When it hits anything it makes the exact same sound as when you lose your rings, and the rings even spill out everywhere like you just got hit.
Let's ignore the fact that it's the most lazy case of re-using assets ever, but WHY!? What sense does it make for him to use that no enemy robots or monsters!? You can't even use it as a decoy, so why is it disguised as a ring powerup when you just chuck it at something and it explodes on contact anyway? This game makes me angry just thinking about it.
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Let's stick to SEGA of America moving, if you guys want to continue the Sonic debate I'll gladly move all posts to a new topic. Or, we can drop the discussion and get back to the topic of SEGA cutting jobs and moving the US offices.
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I've seen some posts on concerns about Virtua Fighter 6 with the arcade division having some layoffs.
I think the layoffs were about the mechanical cabinet manufacturing and things like that...I think at the recent Amusement expo there really is only one video game that has a unique type of cabinet.
Most games simply have button/control stick layout.
So game development staff is safe, I assume. There might just not be unique cabinet to VF6 like in all the previous Virtua Fighter games.
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I also think VF6 is a popular series and of all the Arcade games to cancel, why would it be VF6 which has (limited) world wide appeal compared to Fantasy Horse Racing Simulator 2015: Heat Edition that requires unique e-Cards to play?
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There was a good conversation with AM2 of the evolution of arcades and costs versus oppurtunity:
Frankly, though, the traditional arcade game format - with joysticks and buttons - is by far the cheapest for retailers. In the past, we released a lot of games with gimmicks like motion chairs like Space Harrier and OutRun. You rarely see those kinds of games in arcades anymore because of the cost. Arcade managers simply can't afford that sort of investment. And let's not even go into the overseas market... it's practically dead. The market there is entirely redemption [prize] machines now. The users in America just don't go to arcades anymore, because they don't see why they should invest the effort when they have games at home. In Japan, you've got arcades near train and bus stations that the vast majority of the people have to pass going to and from work, so they get a lot of traffic.
So now you've got a smaller market. In the past, we'd get a good return on investment if we budgeted a lot towards the development and manufacture of those sorts of "gimmick" machines. But when you've got a smaller market, you can't afford to give those sorts of games as big a budget, and so you see far fewer of them make it into production. That's why it's so hard to get those sorts of alternative-input machines onto the market.
Regarding the influence it has on our game designs, I think we touched upon this a bit earlier - about how budget and manufacturing costs affect the choice of machine construction and input device. For instance, when we develop new parts for arcade machines, we need to make manufacturing injection-moulds for them. If we produce 1000 machines that use this part, the cost for each is small, but if we make only 100, it's not cost-effective at all. When you have fewer potential buyers, it's already limiting the number of those machines you'd theoretically be able to sell. It makes more sense for us to invest in internet games than "gimmick" machines these days. The cost of server maintenance and upkeep has really decreased over the past few years.
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I think Virtua Fighter 6 is a safe enough bet for SEGA to allow development of a current gen title, they supported Virtua Fighter 5 for what, just under a decade now? It's a series they know would require limited work to support for so long.
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So.. Any idea where they're relocating to? I live in Socal, so I'm hoping it's close so I can see it in person and take pics like a creep..
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No idea yet, they haven't stated as far as I know.
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Your AAA bias is showing again. This isn't about a game being revolutionary or not, this is about SEGA producing content for core gamers
No you're just to spin you way out . For the last time 'content' doesn't make a game 'original' and every game ever made will have and feature some sort of content by definition. There's no new content at all in Ishi on the PS4 it's a just a PS3 game running on the PS4 which is nothing at all to get excited about.
it was a brand new production made by SEGA
Its a sequel on the PS3 and all SEGA done is bring it to the PS4 - That's hardly an original game and nothing more that a port . The same is happing for Yakzua Zero and its not like with 'most' cross gen games where the game is scaled down for the previous generation consoles (like with Fifa and so on) Now I bet what most people would really like to see from SEGA Japan was either a brand new original IP built from the ground up on the PS4, or at least a Yakuza game built from the ground up for the PS4 - Not getting either and that is why most people don't even care about SEGA Japan anymore - They're offering nothing for the SEGA core fans to get excited about much less anyone else .
Ishin is new content because its a brand new game SEGA made
Its a sequel and on the PS4 it's nothing more than a port . Halo 5 on the X-Box One will be an original entry in the series totally built up and around Xbox One tech , Halo Collection on the other had aren't original and nothing more that impressive ports there is a key difference . What next Sakura Wars 1 and II on the DC were original productions and not Saturn ports and just Saturn games running on the DC.
If we take just the losses, Electronic Arts has lost $3.9 billion.
How did you get to that figure ?.
Again selective reading. I still stated there was 70 different games
LOL you for real ?. I looked at the link and it's not 70 games in one year at all . You come close to that figure if one starts to include the same game just on different formats and EA's Mobile and Tablet games .
The SEGA side is worth more than $4 billion, the Sammy side, which now owns a massive resort complex in South Korea, is probably double that. Nintendo would have to use up all of their cash reserves and than raise some capitals
Lol just face facts.. . NCL just through its cash reserves alone could be both SEGA and Sammy outright , but I wouldn't worry NCL aren't going to do that all .
For me a company investing in making core games is a company investing in core games, simple
Core games ? To me that's the consoles and that's where SEGA Japan come up way short . I doubt many of the SEGA fans left care much about the mobile platform tbh . It's not like all the major game companies aren't big on mobile gamming too , just unlike SEGA Japan they also have big console productions and plans
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No you're just to spin you way out . For the last time 'content' doesn't make a game 'original' and every game ever made will have and feature some sort of content by definition. There's no new content at all in Ishi on the PS4 it's a just a PS3 game running on the PS4 which is nothing at all to get excited about.
Again projecting.
What I said;
"The content's collapsed dramatically, that's undeniable."
At the time what was being said by other members;
"On the other. There's nothing to be excited about, games wise "
So please, the word content was as clear as day, it meant software.
Now you're hung up on the word originality as in, revolutionary or innovative, but not original as in new. As in Ishin is new by Streets of Rage 2 port isn't. So stop trying to spin my words to project what you thought I was saying.
Its a sequel on the PS3 and all SEGA done is bring it to the PS4 - That's hardly an original game and nothing more that a port . The same is happing for Yakzua Zero. Now I bet what most people would really like to see from SEGA Japan was either a brand new original IP built from the ground up on the PS4, or at least a Yakuza game built from the ground up for the PS4 - Not getting either and that is why most people don't even care about SEGA Japan anymore - They're offering nothing for the SEGA core fans to get excited about much less anyone else .
You go on some unrelated rant again. Ishin is a new production, end of. It doesn't matter if it was made ground up or not, it's original content for player's to consume. I even had to ask a non-English speaker what new content meant and he came back with mobile, games, media etc not something that has to do with the technical side of things.
Its a sequel and on the PS4 it's nothing more than a port . Halo 5 on the X-Box One will be an original entry in the series totally built up and around Xbox One tech , Halo Collection on the other had aren't original and nothing more that impressive ports there is a key difference . What next Sakura Wars 1 and II on the DC were original productions and not Saturn ports and just Saturn games running on the DC.
How does your example nullify Ishin as new content. If anything your example is pretty bad, those games are several years old, they aren't new content.
Ishin released just last year and is new content. If it had a single SKU for the PS4 or for the PS3 it doesn't change the fact it's new content.
How did you get to that figure ?.
I did research, something you seem to overlook...
LOL you for real ?. I looked at the link and it's not 70 games in one year at all . You come close to that figure if one starts to include the same game just on different formats and EA's Mobile and Tablet games .
Right here. If I provide evidence and you laugh it off it just goes to show how you're unwilling to entertain a debate. Drop it and stop bothering to reply against me.
Lol just face facts.. . NCL just through its cash reserves alone could be both SEGA and Sammy outright , but I wouldn't worry NCL aren't going to do that all .
I am looking at facts. The market value of SEGA Sammy is complicated because there are many private investors too and the small matter of Satomi's 33% ownership of the company, they're not going to low ball the sale of the company now that their shifting gears into the whole entertainment industry.
And I never once said Nintendo could not purchase the company, I only pointed out it would be hard. Something being hard is a massive deterrence for company acquisition.
Core games ? To me that's the consoles and that's where SEGA Japan come up way short . I doubt many of the SEGA fans left care much about the mobile platform tbh . It's not like all the major game companies aren't big on mobile gamming too , just unlike SEGA Japan they also have big console productions and plans
This year;
SEGA Japan
Ryu Ga Gotoku Zero
Konami
Metal Gear Solid V
Pro Evolution Soccer
Capcom
Resident Evil Revelations 2
New Ace Attorney
Square Enix
Final Fantasy XV
Yes, big plans indeed, only one more major game from Capcom and Konami and on par with Square Enix. Once the new mainline Sonic game is announced, sprinkle a few more bits and pieces of Hatsune Miku to combat Ace Attorney, they'd be on par in terms of gaming content. Big plans indeed from the other publishers.
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Now you're hung up on the word originality as in, revolutionary or innovative
Don't try and spin. You said SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4 . I simple point out a port isn't original.
Ishin is a new production
Its a PS3 game . The PS4 isn't original at all .
If anything your example is pretty bad, those games are several years old, they aren't new content
I love the spin and sorry you're wrong too . There's new content in Halo Collection in terms of a total remake for Halo II, Halo 1 being online and having on-line co-op play and btw HALO IV isn't even close to being 7 years old .
I did research
Is the same research that tried to make out the Wii U enjoyed a better launch than the Wii. Produce a break down of how you come the figure of EA making that loss .
Right here. If I provide evidence and you laugh it off it
You only get to 70 odd games when one counts the total number of platforms a game comes out on and also including EA Mobile and Tablet games. Go by that EA will be producing more that 15 titles a year ever now , simple has ...
I am looking at facts.
Good and the fact is NCL have more money in cash reserves than SammySega and that's before one plays the shares game.
Yes, big plans indeed, only one more major game from Capcom and Konami and on par with Square Enix.
Deep Down should be out this year lol
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Don't try and spin. You said SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4 . I simple point out a port isn't original.
You're the one spinning and arguing with me for some stupid reason. You instigated this debate because of some poor reading comprehension on your part.
I said original because it's not a remake, you want something with all the bells and whistles but you clearly not arguing from my points. So drop it and stop being so bloody dense.
Its a PS3 game . The PS4 isn't original at all .
Wither you like it or not it is a title available on the Playstation 4, you want it to be something else, fine, but that wasn't my point.
I love the spin and sorry you're wrong too . There's new content in Halo Collection in terms of a total remake for Halo II, Halo 1 being online and having on-line co-op play and btw HALO IV isn't even close to being 7 years old .
This coming from you? Oh please grow up. You're failing to understanding anything I said.
Is the same research that tried to make out the Wii U enjoyed a better launch than the Wii. Produce a break down of how you come the figure of EA making that loss .
You really are trying to turn this debate into something else, aren't you?
The Wii U had better sales in America and Europe from it's initial period than the Wii U.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_sales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_sales)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Sales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Sales)
My point was people like you, who only look at the initial sale and not the tail end of it, was gushing out how well the current gen was doing. That was wrong and you should take a look at the bigger picture. Of course you constantly seem to have a poor understanding but it can't be helped.
Here's EA's annual reports, go look for yourself. http://investor.ea.com/annuals.cfm (http://investor.ea.com/annuals.cfm)
You only get to 70 odd games when one counts the total number of platforms a game comes out on and also including EA Mobile and Tablet games. Go by that EA will be producing more that 15 titles a year ever now , simple has ...
No you don't, you get 233 different items/SKUs.
Right in in 2014 it's 79 different items/SKUs.
So you're wrong here too.
Good and the fact is NCL have more money in cash reserves than SammySega and that's before one plays the shares game.
Did I dispute this? No, so stop trying to ignore my actual points.
Deep Down should be out this year lol
I would have included Deep Down but as Capcom has yet to schedule a release date there's nothing set in stone yet. I could throw in what, another Miku game, maybe a mainline Sonic title, probably another Shining console game but until an announcement is made, I'm going on by what we have right now.
So the big plans are infact, limited plans.
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Seems like the Arcade business is going to be Sega Interactive Inc.
Mobile=Sega Networks
Amusement Centers=Sega Entertainment
Amusement Machine=Sega Interactive
And then shareholders will be split from Sega and Sammy.
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You instigated this debate because of some poor reading comprehension on your part.
Not at all. You were the one who tried to make out SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4.
This coming from you? Oh please grow up
How about you get the facts straight ? Halo IV isn't 7 years old and there's plenty of new content in Halo Collection . Its far more than what SEGA done with Ishi on the PS4 .
The Wii U had better sales in America and Europe from it's initial period than the Wii U.
I think you find it didn't , in Europe the Cube had a better launch than the Wii U for starters . Sorry the Wii U didn't enjoy a better launch and its 1 year sales were nothing like that of the Wii .
Here's EA's annual reports, go look for yourself
And again I'll ask you to show where EA posting a loss of 3.9 billion . Or are trying to count the total losses of EA over the last few years ?
Did I dispute this
Like usual you tried spinning. NCL have more than enough money in the bank to buy both Sammy and SEGA outright and still have billions left in the bank .
I would have included Deep Down but as Capcom has yet to schedule a release date there's nothing set in stone yet
Yes since you want to class content games (even if they're ports) Maybe you should have also included the RE HD remake, Dragons Dogma Online, DMV IV and DMC definite edition coming to the next gen from Cap's ?
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Sega's catalouge were +24% above expectations.
Seems like Valkyria Chronicles did it's part
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Seems like the Arcade business is going to be Sega Interactive Inc.
Mobile=Sega Networks
Amusement Centers=Sega Entertainment
Amusement Machine=Sega Interactive
And then shareholders will be split from Sega and Sammy.
Where did you read of this? Interested to read some more PDFs from SEGA Sammy.
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http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/p...ng_e_final.pdf
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/p..._e%20final.pdf
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/p...ku_e_final.pdf
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/p..._e%20final.pdf
Sega establishes Sega Holding Inc. in order for buying shares from Sega individually, seperated from the Resort and (I think) and Pachinko Business.
Makes sense, it seemed strange to put gambling, resorts and video games in one shareholder entity.
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Not at all. You were the one who tried to make out SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4.
Yes at all, you're the one who didn't realise what content means.
How about you get the facts straight ? Halo IV isn't 7 years old and there's plenty of new content in Halo Collection . Its far more than what SEGA done with Ishi on the PS4 .
First you accuse me of spin only because you don't understand what I mean by content and now you're confusing the meaning of the word content.
I think you find it didn't , in Europe the Cube had a better launch than the Wii U for starters . Sorry the Wii U didn't enjoy a better launch and its 1 year sales were nothing like that of the Wii .
I just linked you to shipment information from Nintendo. The point was people like to take data in some grains and dress it up to support the Wii U was fine when it was far from fine.
And again I'll ask you to show where EA posting a loss of 3.9 billion . Or are trying to count the total losses of EA over the last few years ?
Accumulated = $1.5 billion dollar in the red
Total loss making period = $3 billion+
Now you were arguing the majority of EA's losses are due to deals and studo acquisitions when that just wasn't the case.
Like usual you tried spinning. NCL have more than enough money in the bank to buy both Sammy and SEGA outright and still have billions left in the bank .
You accuse me of spinning when you are not grasping the point and projecting what you think I said. Do you think buying companies is like going into a supermarket and purchasing goods? They are not but you seem to have a simple outlook in these matters.
Yes since you want to class content games (even if they're ports) Maybe you should have also included the RE HD remake, Dragons Dogma Online, DMV IV and DMC definite edition coming to the next gen from Cap's ?
You're using decade old games as content. When I very clearly left out titles that are old like the 3DS ports, Valkyria Chronicles PC port, Puyo Puyo Tetris ports etc. We are talking about new games that are seeing their very first releases.
Wither you like it or not, Ishin is a new game launched for the Playstation 4. LittleBigPlanet 3 is new content, The Last of Us is not, WatchDog is new content, Resident Evil Remake is not.
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Here's something George and I talked about last night on the podcast and I wanted to hear forum member's opinions:
What was the last enjoyable SEGA of America packaged game you played?
It was honestly very hard for either of us to pick one. Alpha Protocol had some great ideas, but is far from a great game. Shinobi 3DS maybe?
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COMIX ZONE
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COMIX ZONE
Which is why I have to wonder why fans are upset with the idea that SEGA of America are being told to scale back on American developed packaged titles. I cannot remember the last one that was developed in-house... maybe the Dreamcast days? And the third party developed ones have been crap: Marvel, Golden Compass, Daisy Fuentes. Alpha Protocol is like the only console release in recent years that had potential, but even then it ended up being an okay game that is more of a hidden gem if you can get past some of its issues if anything.
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I don't think anyone is upset, but rather they don't understand the full situation.
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What was the last enjoyable SEGA of America packaged game you played
ESPN NFL 2K5 - Still the best NFL game ever made .
you're the one who didn't realise what content means
Little bit rich from the one who doesn't seem to know what original means . Name me a game with out no content this or last generation if you want to be funny .
First you accuse me of spin only
You spun and got caught out with Halo collection .
I just linked you to shipment information from Nintendo
? The simple fact is the Wii enjoyed a better launch in the West .
Now you were arguing the majority of EA's losses are due to deals and studo acquisitions when that just wasn't the case
Spinning again ? So were having to total up EA losses over a number of years .
Do you think buying companies is like going into a supermarket and purchasing goods
Such a sillly thing to say . But if you got the money to buy them, one can . And btw the way all I ever said was NCl have enough money to buy both SEGA Sammy .
You're using decade old games as content
.
Get your facts straight only the remake is a decade old. Dragon Dogma , DMC 360/PS3, DMC IV are not I think you'll find
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@Team Andromeda, you speak like you do on the behalf of gamers everywhere, that Sega is dissapoitment because of "old tech"
The thing if Sega simply localizes their games, like their Yakuza series and Phantasy Star series consistently (and Shining Resonance I guess, looks good), people would cherish Sega simply for these games. Similarly people cherish From Software and Atlus for pretty much 1 series for each of them (Persona and the Souls series)
Hell people are begining to like Namco over Square Enix, Capcom and Konami, simply for having reliable localizations of Japan-aimed games, with old tech.
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Little bit rich from the one who doesn't seem to know what original means . Name me a game with out no content this or last generation if you want to be funny .
No I know perfectly well. There is almost nothing original about the games you are looking forward to other than cutting edge graphics but in this instance and what I was talking about, original means original release.
You spun and got caught out with Halo collection .
I think you'll find your understanding of the English language has let you down again.
? The simple fact is the Wii enjoyed a better launch in the West .
Learn to format text properly.
Spinning again ? So were having to total up EA losses over a number of years .
This isn't spin, you argued the losses are due to investments, if they were, where does the extra $2 billion loss come from other than failed AAA projects?
Such a sillly thing to say . But if you got the money to buy them, one can . And btw the way all I ever said was NCl have enough money to buy both SEGA Sammy .
Not a silly thing to say considering who I'm arguing with.
Get your facts straight only the remake is a decade old. Dragon Dogma , DMC 360/PS3, DMC IV are not I think you'll find
This doesn't even change my initial point, but thanks for trying, learn to debate and come back again with a sensible argument.
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There is almost nothing original about the games you are looking forward to other than cutting edge graphics
Spining again ? . Never said it was, you used original . Those games have content. At least Deep Down is not only an original IP is also has a very good engine to power it , which bolds well for Capcom upcoming next gen titles .
you argued the losses are due to investments
And a huge part of them were with all the overheads one gets from such dealings . Look at EA profits and the major decline and the huge losses really start to bite after EA went on its spending spree with the NFL and buying the likes of Bio Ect .
I think you'll find your understanding
Halo II is a total remake , Halo 1 the user is able to play co-op and online and Halo IV isn't 7 years old . So on key facts you're wrong .
Learn to format text properly
Insult ? . I don't think I'm the only one having issues with the formating on this board with the likes of chrome .
Not a silly thing
If you have enough money you can pretty much buy what ever you want should you want too . Nintendo could well afford to buy Sammy and SEGA, but it never would want too.
This doesn't even change my initial point
It does and playing by your own rules its shows that Capcom have more than just 2 games coming this year .
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Spining again ? . Never said it was, you used original . Those games have content. At least Deep Down is not only an original IP is also has a very good engine to power it , which bolds well for Capcom upcoming next gen titles .
No you're just failing to grasp a point. Original content means not a remake, I pointed this out several times and you still don't get it for some odd reason. I've clarified this statement so many times it staggers belief you still aren't able to understand what I said.
And a huge part of them were with all the overheads one gets from such dealings . Look at EA profits and the major decline and the huge losses really start to bite after EA went on its spending spree with the NFL and buying the likes of Bio Ect .
The losses were not down to those deals alone, most of those losses come from the fact multiple AAA titles bombed. This is why they shrank their line up.
Halo II is a total remake , Halo 1 the user is able to play co-op and online and Halo IV isn't 7 years old . So on key facts you're wrong .
You seem to be having trouble with the English language.
You said;
"Halo Collection on the other had aren't original and nothing more that impressive ports there is a key difference "
I said;
"If anything your example is pretty bad, those games are several years old, they aren't new content."
You replied with;
"I love the spin and sorry you're wrong too . There's new content in Halo Collection in terms of a total remake for Halo II, Halo 1 being online and having on-line co-op play and btw HALO IV isn't even close to being 7 years old ."
Which left me dumbfounded, absolutely dumbfounded, by what you could mean, what spin was I trying to throw? But now, now I see it was a stupid mistake in your retort. You honestly think the word several means seven, don't you? I cannot believe how bad you're grasp of this dialogue is going.
The actual definition of several means "more than two" "a number of" "a few" but you take it as the numerical value of 7. Why are you finding it so hard to get your head around very basic English, the words content, original and several should not be giving you so much trouble. Please re-educate yourself in these key terms before posting in a forum debate ever again.
Insult ? . I don't think I'm the only one having issues with the formating on this board with the likes of chrome .
The only other who has these issues with formatting is Joe who I haven't debated with. So please fix it up if you want to discuss something.
If you have enough money you can pretty much buy what ever you want should you want too . Nintendo could well afford to buy Sammy and SEGA, but it never would want too.
Afford and doing is two completely different things. Again you are treating company purchase as a straight forward exchange of cash, it's not that simple.
It does and playing by your own rules its shows that Capcom have more than just 2 games coming this year .
No these are the rules you invented in your head that you thought I said, not that I did.
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Deep Down is a F2P PS4 exclusive game. Next-gen, next try to play safe with Microtransactions..and Capcom is having 10 Online games in development to have some of the LOL/DOTA/PSO2 money.
EA reduced workforce and losses are clear. Less and some not all that grear AAA games every year and Origin as a focus are some reasons.
You didn't count the multiplayer fiasco of MC Collection. It could affect Halo 5 sales.
Nintendo don't have the permission from the investors to buy something because of the almost 2 years and a quarter of losses.
Also, every company has almost 2 games or more per year. They are GAME companies.
Great use of a multiseller IP's like RE from Capcom with a downloable paid game with Microtransactions in it. So next-gen and cutting edge technology right there for the current consoles (http://i.imgur.com/E6iGAkT.jpg)
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No one here has clearly explained what triple A title is. If spending 20+ million and having a team of 100+ people working on it is triple A; your company is going to have a bad time.
WhIle there is nothing wrong with that, it's not a great solution when lower cost and creative games with smaller titles seem to be getting more traction in the last few years. No Man's Sky, Shovel Knight, and so on.
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No one here has clearly explained what triple A title is. If spending 20+ million and having a team of 100+ people working on it is triple A; your company is going to have a bad time.
WhIle there is nothing wrong with that, it's not a great solution when lower cost and creative games with smaller titles seem to be getting more traction in the last few years. No Man's Sky, Shovel Knight, and so on.
I don't think anyone really knows what Triple A means to be honest, it's just a pointless buzzword people can throw out when it benefits them.
Budget is high? Oh it's Triple A!
Didn't sell as much as cowadoody? Well it's not aimed as a Triple A release.
What is the hierarchy anyway? Is it
AAA
BBB
CCC
Or
AAA
AAB
AAC
ABA
Or
AAA
AA
A
BBB
BB
B
What a rich tapestry this hobby has become.
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You have it all wrong, it's ABBAABBA
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PiL1GDVM2gI/UB_4LvHBvhI/AAAAAAAAUaA/3GwQwWTG3gY/s1600/Aladdin_07_(SMD).gif)
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I thought it was ABACABB?
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1ssniXF1F1qb8uuw.jpg)
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No dude, we're both wrong, it's BARACUDA
(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/3/37/S3D_level_select.png)
We need more BARACUDA games from SEGA!
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Oh lawd, game quality goes all the way to 'R'!?
That would explain Depression Quest, I guess.
(If this were NeoGAF, I'd be banned for that post)
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Original content means not a remake
Sigh ... I wasn't just on about remakes so stop the spin and even gave examples of the likes of Gun which was nothing more than a Xbox/PS2 game running on a 360 . I wouldn't say too much but if Ishi or the upcoming Zero featured really next gen graphics that were downgraded to the PS3 (like Forza Horizon II or the like) that would be something . Yakuza on the PS4 is really nothing more than a PS3 title running on the PS4 - I hardly call that either original or anything to get excited about.
Which left me dumbfounded, absolutely dumbfounded
Its quite simple you keep on about content counting as original and Halo Collection features new content , just like Dark Souls II coming to the Xbox One and PS4 (which isn't a remake) . Yakuza on the PS4 offers no new content at all and the only plus is it running at 60 fps and 1080p -which isn't that impressive and not looking good for SEGA Japan next gen pipe lines - that's if they have any .
The only other who has these issues with formatting is Joe who I haven't debated with
No I believe mang74 had some issues too .
Again you are treating company purchase as a straight forward exchange of cash, it's not that simple
Nintendo have more than enough cash to buy SEGASammy and if they came in with a massive bid that valued SEGA shares at double their price , you can bet SEGA would find it hard to block the move . In the end NCL have more than enough money in the bank to buy both , but it never would want too .
No these are the rules you invented in your head that you thought
They're games, they're content and not remakes . So sorry if you're going to count Yakuza Ishi on the PS4, they you need to count DMC Reboot, DMC IV , Dragon Dogma on the Xbox One and PS4 is Capcom titles fro this year
Deep Down is a F2P PS4 exclusive game. Next-gen, next try to play safe with Microtransactions
So ? . I'm more interested in the engine that is powering it and it bolds well for sequels to RE and so on .
EA reduced workforce and losses are clear. Less and some not all that grear AAA
You act like SEGA hasn't cut its workforce . EA was always going to cutback on staff after so many acquisitions and the having a number of staff doing the same jobs like Bioware having their own PR Dept and Q&A which simply isn't needed as EA would have their own . Plus then EA got rid of some of the dead wood.
You didn't count the multiplayer fiasco of MC Collection. It could affect Halo 5 sales
Get real for crying out loud . Looking over the near perfect Beta performance of the Halo 5 Beta . You really thing that the disaster of GTA V Online would hold back any sales of GTA 6 . Halo 5 is going to be a sales monster when it ships this fall .
Nintendo don't have the permission from the investors to buy something because of the almost 2 years and a quarter of losses
.Don't worry NCL isn't going to waste its money on SEGA. And sorry again even if you make losses you can still buy and spend loads on corps should your banks and shareholders approve it just look at the likes of SONY , Ford, General Motors where they can make massive losses but still have enough money to buy out corporations .
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No I believe mang74 had some issues too .
It's true, m9.
F[/size]orm[/font][/size]atti[/size]ng is w[/size]ei[/size]rd[/i]
[/size]
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Uh....forget about it.
I don't know what I'm losing time with this.
I need to buy a PS4 with DMC games with Vergil Action, whata lot of fun with games I already have for PS3 and PC.
So different from Yakuza 0, perhaps the most unforgiven release of Sega for both Sony consoles, even Persona 5 is like that, it hurts me it's gonna be another scheme for Sammy and their old content not AAA and not multiplat. 60 FPS doesn't make me a difference.
So, well at least Sega Holdings have TMS, Sega Toys and Marza in their belt right now, something I say for staying with true with this topic.
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Sigh ... I wasn't just on about remakes so stop the spin and even gave examples of the likes of Gun which was nothing more than a Xbox/PS2 game running on a 360 . I wouldn't say too much but if Ishi or the upcoming Zero featured really next gen graphics that were downgraded to the PS3 (like Forza Horizon II or the like) that would be something . Yakuza on the PS4 is really nothing more than a PS3 title running on the PS4 - I hardly call that either original or anything to get excited about.
But this is what you're not understanding. You are arguing what you THINK I said when I very clearly demonstrated and spoke further about and that is people want content. See you now bring in about you personal excitement which is far enough, but I'm not talking about you because frankly I don't care, I'm talking about SEGA Japan's output and Ishin is not the same as a remake, it's a new game.
Its quite simple you keep on about content counting as original and Halo Collection features new content , just like Dark Souls II coming to the Xbox One and PS4 (which isn't a remake) . Yakuza on the PS4 offers no new content at all and the only plus is it running at 60 fps and 1080p -which isn't that impressive and not looking good for SEGA Japan next gen pipe lines - that's if they have any .
Again you wanting to argue about your point, about AAA gaming, that's what you can argue about. But its not something I instigated or even interested in discussing so please just drop trying to rebound this discussion into some next tangent and not what I was even talking about originally.
No I believe mang74 had some issues too .
Only because he quoted you.
Nintendo have more than enough cash to buy SEGASammy and if they came in with a massive bid that valued SEGA shares at double their price , you can bet SEGA would find it hard to block the move . In the end NCL have more than enough money in the bank to buy both , but it never would want too .
And if they spent double their money, along with the massive amount of extra wages and development costs of the new resort complex, they might not be able to afford it. See this is the difference.
They're games, they're content and not remakes . So sorry if you're going to count Yakuza Ishi on the PS4, they you need to count DMC Reboot, DMC IV , Dragon Dogma on the Xbox One and PS4 is Capcom titles fro this year
Unfortunately the difference for Ishin on Playstation 4 is that it's original release was for the Playstation 3 and 4. Those games you mentioned outside of Dragon Dogma that we need to hear more about, have all been released on other consoles and the majority of the game is the same.
This is what you're not getting, its not about if the content is available on another platform, it's if it is a brand new game, which Ishin, Zero etc all are, now if SEGA re-released Sonic Generations on PS4 with extra effects and one new level, it's not new content. This should be a simple enough concept to grasp.
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See you now bring in about you personal excitement which is far enough
I was on about games just for the next gen systems and then you had to bring in the likes of Yakuza Ishi - That's not really a game for the next gen and when people sometimes ask make a list of exclusive games worth getting a next gen console far, you're not going to get games really that are also out for the last gen . And its not like Yakuza tech is that impressive and takes any real advantage of the next gen . You also then go on about this 'content' well then define what you mean by a game with content and name me one game made for this or last gen that doesn't feature content ?.
I'm talking about SEGA Japan's output and Ishin is not the same as a remake, it's a new game.
Sigh.. The likes of GTA IV One/PS4 Dark Souls II , AC Black Flag aren't remakes but they're really nothing more than PS3/Xbox 360 games running on the next gen. Not to most people original Xbox/PS4 games .
Again you wanting to argue about your point, about AAA gaming, that's what you can argue about.
No I'm on about real next gen plans and some decent tech and engines in place, to some that could be called AAA gaming . For me its just about getting your best teams to make the best games they can with tech to take full advantage of the next gen. Doesn't seem SEGA Japan have big plans or games coming for the next gen .
Only because he quoted you
No I think he had trouble with the board formatting too, but never mind.
I need to buy a PS4
Not on the next gen are we ? . How about SEGA Japan should give you a reason to want and buy a next gen console . They used back in the good old days . I remember getting a Import Cube just for Monkeyball, A Xbox not for Halo, but for JSR and so looking forward to Valkyria chronicles on the PS3 in the early days .
So far more than a year into the next gen , There's still nothing to look forward too from SEGA Japan is there ? .
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I was on about games just for the next gen systems and then you had to bring in the likes of Yakuza Ishi - That's not really a game for the next gen and when people sometimes ask make a list of exclusive games worth getting a next gen console far, you're not going to get games really that are also out for the last gen . And its not like Yakuza tech is that impressive and takes any real advantage of the next gen . You also then go on about this 'content' well then define what you mean by a game with content and name me one game made for this or last gen that doesn't feature content ?
See this is where you are having trouble. Trying to speak normal English isn't working because you keep making the same mistake that content = volume, no, it means new games. This again you have problem understanding because new = never before done. At the same time you seem to think original means innovative, these all would work in your argument but the context of the discussion, it doesn't. You seem to be responding to someone else. I've defined content so many time I am struggling to see how you can't stick to the discussion.
And in this discussion with Mang, Crackdude etc not once were we talking about next gen exclusives but games. You are the one who wants AAA gaming, which fair enough, is what you want but not at any moment what the discussion was related to.
.Sigh.. The likes of GTA IV One/PS4 Dark Souls II , AC Black Flag aren't remakes but they're really nothing more than PS3/Xbox 360 games running on the next gen. Not to most people original Xbox/PS4 games .
Again the discussion was never about games that are updated ports, the discussion was about having new content and SEGA had just that in Ishin and Zero. If GTA IV launched for the PS4 alongside the last gen consoles, it would be new content because you know, it was the title's original release date. This is what we are talking about but you seem to be having a real struggle trying to understand it.
No I'm on about real next gen plans and some decent tech and engines in place, to some that could be called AAA gaming . For me its just about getting your best teams to make the best games they can with tech to take full advantage of the next gen. Doesn't seem SEGA Japan have big plans or games coming for the next gen .
Next gen plans, wither you like it or not, is mostly AAA gaming. And the tech on offer has so far limited it to cosmetic effects, the best games are games with good design and so far, Nintendo is outpacing those that you claim are making the best use of tech with some ideas that are years, in the case of certain series, decade old.
No I think he had trouble with the board formatting too, but never mind.
That one time he quoted you, otherwise no, he didn't.
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No I think he had trouble with the board formatting too, but never mind.
Jokes aside, I've had lots of issues when trying to do things like multiple quotes or change size/colour/font etc.
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At the same time you seem to think original means innovative,
I think you find I do not . Nothing original about AC Unity in terms of innovation in the gameplay . What's original about it is that's an original production for the next gen. Yakuza Ishi or the upcoming Zero on the PS4 don't offer that its really nothing more than Shenmue II was on the Xbox .
the discussion was about having new content and SEGA had just that in Ishin and Zero
Every game ever made features content . Better if SEGA Japan gave us a game that wasn't also available on the last gen and made a game built for this generation of hardware.
Next gen plans, wither you like it or not, is mostly AAA gaming
AAA is a over used term and having some good tech and next gen engine doesn't have to mean all out AAA gaming . It just be nice to see SEGA Japan come out and show off their next gen pipe lines and give its users something to look forward too and to build on, but so far we have got nothing .
That one time he quoted you, otherwise no, he didn't.
Sorry you're wrong . More than twice there's been issues and its nothing to do with quoting me . There's seems to be issues with SMF now and again
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I think the problem with Yakuza is not being localized rather than anything else.
The "outdated" tech and "tired yearly installments" comments are more in the minority regarding these games.
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I think the problem with Yakuza is not being localized rather than anything else.
The "outdated" tech and "tired yearly installments" comments are more in the minority regarding these games.
I doubt it given the low fanbase of the series in the west . Yearly installments is an issues though as they stops any invoation in gameplay and desgin and also means little new tech . 9 to 10 months to make a game like Yakuza is just nuts and a sure way to kill creativity and the teams will
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How do you know it kills their creativity and team's will? I'm just saying, Keiji Inafune has done 80 billion Mega Man games and left Capcom to do his own spiritual successor, some people just like working on their own franchises as long as possible with games in between.
Nagoshi actually has power higher up at SEGA, your pretending like he is just some low level developer that has no say in the company...
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How do you know it kills their creativity and team's will
Making the same game year in year out is a sure way to kill creativity and we've seen it with Yakuza there's hardly been anything really new . Killing the teams will - Well when you don't let the team make other games and try new stuff is when you start to kill a Teams will.
The team have like 9 to 10 months to make a game , is just asking far too much really
Nagoshi actually has power higher up at SEGA
? You've lost me on that one .
Keiji Inafune
Capcom were rather silly to let him go , when he called it so right with the decline in Japanese gaming
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.... you literally cherry picked to talk about and didn't even answer my questions.
You don't have proof that Nagoshi doesn't want to work on Yakuza, therefore you should stop making stuff up. Thanks. You'd think a Chief Creative Officer over at SEGA had a bit of sway over what his own team works on. Not only that, he has been promoted on taking over as director of the arcade division as well, so all SEGA games go through Nagoshi.
Do you really think he doesn't like making Yakuza games?
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Oh man, Next-Gen is so bright and colorful everytime....the new AAA Big IP's work so well with every possible thing. So profitable the market right now. How many developers are in Top 10, Two? Three?Four at least?
Creativity reach new highs when those games have many years in development with awesome ideas that seems to worked last time in term of sales..a fresh coat of paint is always welcome because videogames could work as Doritos and Coca-Cola because everybody like the same thing if it's good even if They have the same thing to play last year.
Why multimedia JP games for PS3 and 3DS reach the top in a week with all the games for the Next-Gen? That's a question without answer right now.
Also, I miss the Superbowl commercials...how many are from Big Games from the Next-Gen this year? Can someone tell me?
At least multiplats are always present and the "temporary exclusives" are on the way to reach that possibility although lt could be different if the game is funded by the company which secure the deal....
Yeah, a great time for console games.
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.... you literally cherry picked to talk about and didn't even answer my questions.
You don't have proof that Nagoshi doesn't want to work on Yakuza, therefore you should stop making stuff up. Thanks. You'd think a Chief Creative Officer over at SEGA had a bit of sway over what his own team works on. Not only that, he has been promoted on taking over as director of the arcade division as well, so all SEGA games go through Nagoshi.
Do you really think he doesn't like making Yakuza games?
The real life Yakuza forces Sega to make games romanticizing them and making them look good. He probably has to work on making more Yakuza games where the Japanese mafia saves little children and protect society from bad people or one of their buildings will get burnt down or employees will wind up 'missing'.
Half-Joking
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You don't have proof that Nagoshi doesn't want to work on Yakuza
Never said about Nagoshi-san so I haven't a clue what you're on about .Nagoshi-san He's just your typical General now who's got nothing more to other than more and more Yakuza and has totally forgotten what its like to be a younger memeber (grunt if you will) trying to get their chance and make the games they want to make .
so all SEGA games go through Nagoshi
Like that means anything these days . Under Nagosh-san watch SEGA Japan console output is now pretty shocking there's no next gen tech no million selling IP (from SEGA Japan) and he's also seen the near destruction of Sonic. Give me the likes of Yu Suzuki any day of the week that's the man who should have been at the front of SEGA Japan development plans
Oh man, Next-Gen is so bright and colorful everytime....the new AAA Big IP's work so well with every possible thing
LOL what with this GameFAQ's fanboy talk ? . It thanks to the next gen that SEGA saw decent sales of Ailen Isolation is it not ?
Why multimedia JP games for PS3 and 3DS reach the top in a week with all the games for the Next-Gen?
Stop the comedy . The JP sales chart are a complete joke and its not like SEGA Japan does all that well in them either of late .
how many are from Big Games from the Next-Gen this year? Can someone tell me
Come back to me when Halo 5, Batman AK, Rise of the Tomb Raider TC: The divsion , MGS V, Quantom Break , Rainbow Six Siege, The Wicther 3 all sell inthe millions . And you can hold me to that too
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Capcom were rather silly to let him go , when he called it so right with the decline in Japanese gaming
I'm interested in hearing in what sense you understood Inafune leaving. Because as I understood it he was a leading force in having more Capcom games outsourced. Which, while not necessarily terrible in concept, didn't work out in execution half of the time. Inafune was rejecting the lack of perceived globalization in Japanese gaming and the entrenchment of employees in Japan's gaming corporate culture (which he thought leads to stifled creative visions, limited risk-taking/repeats of the same stuff). Recent economics stuff has kind of shaken the latter, but still. The rejection of the sort of output he saw from Japan was what bothered him. It's partially what inspired Dead Rising at the time.
If we agree on that...how does that really apply to Sega or Nagoshi. I don't understand the link you're making. I don't think we have any indication that Nagoshi doesn't actually want to make Yakuza games, but if he doesn't, what do you think he really wants to do? Do you think he was more interested in Hero Bank than Yakuza?
Also I don't really think the "not new content" thing makes sense. Tekken 5 and 6 reused the same character models, they're still obviously different games.
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I doubt it given the low fanbase of the series in the west .
That's not the fault of the game tough. But rather marketing decisions...release date, delayed localizations etc.
The first couple of Yakuza games for PS3 and PS4 came/come out in a time when there's not that much games out there (and the Yakuza games being unique in the pack of games, having a chance to stand out especially the Samurai spin-offs). But Yakuza 1 came out in a time where everyone's attention was on the 360 and Wii, Yakuza 2 was 08 where the PS2 was pretty much dead, and Yakuza 3 came out in a month with FF13 and God of War 3.
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Find it funny how TA says Nagoshi have overseen the destruction of the Sonic IP when it was all there to see it started under Naka, got worse and worse and he still defends Sonic Team who have been responsible for the mess the franchise is in. Infact the franchise has improved under Nagoshi's reign than it did under Naka's reign.
I think you find I do not . Nothing original about AC Unity in terms of innovation in the gameplay . What's original about it is that's an original production for the next gen. Yakuza Ishi or the upcoming Zero on the PS4 don't offer that its really nothing more than Shenmue II was on the Xbox .
Yes you did, this entire random discussion you've thrown from me saying we want "original content" "new content" as many different ways of saying never before released content has come from you failing to understand the context of the discussion and again...
Every game ever made features content . Better if SEGA Japan gave us a game that wasn't also available on the last gen and made a game built for this generation of hardware.
You are failing to understand what the discussion was. Just drop it if you cannot figure out what content means, you seem to be struggling with what me, George, Mang and even Crackdude was talking about before you wanted to figure out the many different usage of the word content. Even now you seem to have not understood that in my various points it does not mean volume.
The second part is what you want but this discussion has never been about what you want, so don't try to force it in that direction.
AAA is a over used term and having some good tech and next gen engine doesn't have to mean all out AAA gaming . It just be nice to see SEGA Japan come out and show off their next gen pipe lines and give its users something to look forward too and to build on, but so far we have got nothing .
Again this is what you want and not what me or MadeManG or George were even talking about. We'd much rather have Yakuza 6 or Puyo Puyo Tetris or even a good 2D Sonic game made my competent people. But what you want is not what was what we were discussing.
Sorry you're wrong . More than twice there's been issues and its nothing to do with quoting me . There's seems to be issues with SMF now and again
It occurs thanks to you and Joe for whatever reason fiddling around with the quote brackets and adding texts. It's not very hard to preview your post, see if everything is fine and dandy and then post.
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Just if someome didnt know, Toshihiro nagoshi is now one of the directors of SEGA games, the division of now SEGA Holdings that create games for mobiles, PC and consoles. He is working aside with Yukio sugino, Kenji matsubara, and Hideki okamura the COO of SEGA Holdings. Plus that Haruki satomi is now the CEO of SEGA games itself.
Looking for their carrer achievements all of them are people with experience and knowledge so i think the division of games of SEGA japan is in good hands. If we get those games is another thing...
About the Yakuza franchise, i think now Masayoshi Yokohama is in charge now, but again, since Toshihiroi nagoshi is one of the directos of SEGA games, almost all of the big decisions have to pass over him.
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Just if someome didnt know, Toshihiro nagoshi is now one of the directors of SEGA games, the division of now SEGA Holdings that create games for mobiles, PC and consoles. He is working aside with Yukio sugino, Kenji matsubara, and Hideki okamura the COO of SEGA Holdings. Plus that Haruki satomi is now the CEO of SEGA games itself.
Looking for their carrer achievements all of them are people with experience and knowledge so i think the division of games of SEGA japan is in good hands. If we get those games is another thing...
I still think the decision to streamline western operations and keep lots of things in Japan isn't a decision made by any of the Sega people, but rather the CEO's of the Sega Sammy Group(Haruki Satomi etc.).
I mean creatively there have been lots of heads in CCO positions or heads of AM or CS R&D Divisions, that have brought many of the games that people loved from Sega back in the day.
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Because as I understood it he was a leading force in having more Capcom games outsourced. Which, while not necessarily terrible in concept, didn't work out in execution half of the time
Yes that's what I got and he also wanted to work more on games developed with just the west in mind and Capcom weren't too happy about that
I don't think we have any indication that Nagoshi doesn't actually want to make Yakuza games, but if he doesn't, what do you think he really wants to do? Do you think he was more interested in Hero Bank than Yakuza?
Nagoshi-san is just a yes man now and all he can offer the top brass every year when new projects and prototypes when they’re submitting to the board, its just I know we’ll make a new Yakuza game. The Top brass of SEGA Japan have called it totally wrong on this gen of consoles too , already the sales of the One and PS4 are pushing for 30 million consoles sold.
To me if Nagoshi-san had any sort of grasp on console gaming and what the SEGA fans really want . He'll be pushing for his Teams to have more time to make each new Yakuza, get the R&D Tech team to come up with a next gen engine and get SOJ to make some next gen games on the systems , rarher than the yearly updates and the quick and easy route of mobile
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If we agree on that...how does that really apply to Sega or Nagoshi
To a point but Inafune-san wanted more games made for the west and Capcom weren't quite happy with that I think.
Find it funny how TA says Nagoshi have overseen the destruction of the Sonic IP when it was all there to see it started under Naka, got worse and worse and he still defends Sonic Team who have been responsible for the mess the franchise is in
Sonic Team can only do what they are told . Putting Sonic on just Wii U was a total balls up , not having the team ready for a new Sonic game on both the PS4, and XBone another balls up , by the top brass as is not getting PSO II on the next gen consoles right now . I don't blame the ST for that, more people like Nagoshi-san who have the final say on what should and can't be made .
Yes you did, this entire random discussion you've thrown from me saying we want "original conten
A new Game developed souly for this gen of consoles . To which I put to Yakuza Ishi is not .
Just drop it if you cannot figure out what content means
Name a game that doesn't feature content ?
We'd much rather have Yakuza 6 or Puyo Puyo Tetris or even a good 2D Sonic game made my competent people
You rather see SEGA Japa make Tetris , rather than a brand New next gen game with a impressive graphics engine . Says it all . That is not the SEGA I grew to love at all .
It occurs thanks to you and Joe for whatever reason fiddling
It's not just me and Joe .
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I still think the decision to streamline western operations and keep lots of things in Japan isn't a decision made by any of the Sega people, but rather the CEO's of the Sega Sammy Group(Haruki Satomi etc.).
I mean creatively there have been lots of heads in CCO positions or heads of AM or CS R&D Divisions, that have brought many of the games that people loved from Sega back in the day.
Spot on Sammy to blame for the mess SEGA Japan is in at the mo
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I still think the decision to streamline western operations and keep lots of things in Japan isn't a decision made by any of the Sega people, but rather the CEO's of the Sega Sammy Group(Haruki Satomi etc.).
I mean creatively there have been lots of heads in CCO positions or heads of AM or CS R&D Divisions, that have brought many of the games that people loved from Sega back in the day.
No idea to be honest, we can talk long and hard about the localization topic and not only about SEGA but about the industry in general, but for me one thing is for sure. If SEGA or SEGA-SAMMY dont want to localize most of their games, then at least i want them to earn money with those decisions. In a business way to see it is very simple, you bring games and make your fanbase happy, or you dont do it and save money, it have to one of those.
Obviously i would like to see a balance in this, for example Hatsune miku seems to be a good localization product for SEGA, if we and SEGA can manage to have a couple of more things get out of Japan (like we are having this year) and make them a good localization product, then i and a lot of others fans would pretty much get satisfied with the efforts of the company and viceversa.
In the end of the day, localization or not localization...it doenst really matter if the franchise cant get "firm" in the west, what it matter is to have a balance, i want some of the games that SEGA have in japan, but at the same time i can be so selfish to ask them to bring something than definetly will not sell here and cost them money.
That is the point in my opinion, to manage than we and the company, have a win-win.
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Honestly, I don't understand why something like Hatsune Miku can succeed in the West to a greater degree than Yakuza. Anyone with a passing interest in crime drama has at least an awareness of the Yakuza, if only to imagine it as a Japanese equivalent of the Mafia.
Hatsune Miku on the other hand is a nonsensical name that is probably illegible/unpronouncable to most Americans. The concept of a Vocaloid is hard to grasp as it's not a type of software that has had any success in the West. It's just something that's hard to get up to speed with and understand. I guess it's a pretty strong character design.
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There's probably more at work. Hatsune Miku/ Vocaloid stuff is a strong multimedia presence. Concerts, etc. I don't know what the timing was like, but Vocaloid stuff being -at least- moderately popular outside of Japan helps make localization an easier sell. Plus the comparatively low translation costs, easy DLC (this helps when you make the pitch for localization, I'd guess, even if I hardly ever buy DLC myself) blah blah
Yakuza could probably do better than it has been. The reasons for that, it's hard for me to guess. I'm not sure what exactly Yakuza is supposed to be competing with, if anything. I think it's a pretty unique mix of different things. One thing that I could point out is probably that it's a continuing story, while Project DIVA stuff you can just jump in whenever. Sega does good work in offering the story refreshers, but that may not be enough to those who don't know that Yakuza games offer those refreshers on past games. Apparently numbered entries are quite off-putting to some consumers, something that really irritates me
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The real life Yakuza forces Sega to make games romanticizing them and making them look good. He probably has to work on making more Yakuza games where the Japanese mafia saves little children and protect society from bad people or one of their buildings will get burnt down or employees will wind up 'missing'.
Half-Joking
I do find Nagoshi's comments about Grand Theft Auto staggeringly hypocritical and silly. He criticizes GTA for glorifying violence when his Yakuza games glamourize gangsters to a far greater degree (the hostesses, etc). Both games deal in gangster chic but at least GTA satirizes it. Yakuza celebrates it ironically.
If you make games celebrating the people who own your company, well, you might get favourable treatment whereas others might find themselves sidelined.
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I think Yakuza would have been better off not having connected plots so much but characters with new enemies that are self-contained stories.
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Sonic Team can only do what they are told . Putting Sonic on just Wii U was a total balls up , not having the team ready for a new Sonic game on both the PS4, and XBone another balls up , by the top brass as is not getting PSO II on the next gen consoles right now . I don't blame the ST for that, more people like Nagoshi-san who have the final say on what should and can't be made .
And wither you like it or not, Sonic is actually in a better condition now than the 00s, this is fact. Sonic Team have been responsible, under Naka, for Sonic Heroes, for Shadow the Hedgehog and (Without Naka.) the calamity that was Sonic 06, they've killed the brand a lot more than one little bomb on the Wii U.
A new Game developed souly for this gen of consoles . To which I put to Yakuza Ishi is not .
It doesn't matter if it isn't, as long as it's a remake. I've said plenty of times LittleBigPlanet 3 is new content, even if WatchDog was produced for PC it is still new content for any specific console. This isn't a discussion about current gen exclusive but providing people like Mang and Crack with content.
Name a game that doesn't feature content ?
Again you are finding it hard to understand that content did not mean volume in this case.
You rather see SEGA Japa make Tetris , rather than a brand New next gen game with a impressive graphics engine . Says it all . That is not the SEGA I grew to love at all .
Oh get lost. You'd rather scream like a fangirl over new technology instead of well thought out gameplay, that's a crucial part to SEGA as well. But what can I expect from someone who loves Capcom's output due to their technical achievement, says it all really.
And double get lost if you think people should only enjoy AAA games, it says it all about you. You want everyone to think like you when none of the regular here can even comprehend the amounts of loops you have to get around before reaching your conclusions.
It's not just me and Joe .
By far the only two who enter into needless discussion thus requiring massive amounts of quotation is you and Joe.
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No idea to be honest, we can talk long and hard about the localization topic and not only about SEGA but about the industry in general, but for me one thing is for sure. If SEGA or SEGA-SAMMY dont want to localize most of their games, then at least i want them to earn money with those decisions. In a business way to see it is very simple, you bring games and make your fanbase happy, or you dont do it and save money, it have to one of those.
Obviously i would like to see a balance in this, for example Hatsune miku seems to be a good localization product for SEGA, if we and SEGA can manage to have a couple of more things get out of Japan (like we are having this year) and make them a good localization product, then i and a lot of others fans would pretty much get satisfied with the efforts of the company and viceversa.
In the end of the day, localization or not localization...it doenst really matter if the franchise cant get "firm" in the west, what it matter is to have a balance, i want some of the games that SEGA have in japan, but at the same time i can be so selfish to ask them to bring something than definetly will not sell here and cost them money.
That is the point in my opinion, to manage than we and the company, have a win-win.
A East and West divide can be a good thing in some aspects...but the ambition is too big I feel, especially during the 00's. Providing each market with it's own good game and have good sales can work in some aspects, we have Yakuza and PSO being popular in Japan, and in the West PC RTS and Football Manager are popular. But then you have a dissapointing Sonic game, and then have good Sega games be in Japan only, it just leaves people sour.
Just for example in 2008, Japan saw an excellent revival of things like Fantasy Zone, while in the meantime we got Golden Axe: Beast Rider instead. It leaves the fanbase frustrated.
Nowadays, the route Sega is going, is having a slow expansion of things that they grew popular in Japan, with the West as the lowest priority of porting (Asia get's priority appearently).
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I think Yakuza would have been better off not having connected plots so much but characters with new enemies that are self-contained stories.
I agree to an extent. I feel like the games have a stigma of 'you need to play them ALL to understand the story!', but I don't think that's entirely true. I feel each game is self-contained enough that you could still enjoy it without playing the previous ones, yes even without the 'reminisce' mode.
Do we really need to know about the money embezzlement and Daigo being saved/betrayed and all the exact details? It's kind of like in The Witcher, you meet a lot of characters that Geralt knows from the books and has had detailed adventures with, and it's kind of just touched on in the games. It gives you a feeling of history and familiarity but it's not required to know exactly what Geralt and Dandelion got up to last time they went adventuring as the plot of the game is pretty well self contained.
It would be great if Sega gave Yakuza another shot in the west with a fake 'reboot'. Call it 'Like a Dragon' and give it a decent release (even if it's just subtitled again) and see if people are more likely to try it than a numbered sequel?
I just don't understand why this series wouldn't work in the west, as many others have said.
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And wither you like it or not, Sonic is actually in a better condition now than the 00s, this is fact
Sales say otherwise and its got so bad for Sonic we've even had topics on here so about should SEGA leave Sonic alone and now with the news that Sonic Team are going mobile it looks like Sonic isn't going to be making his great return to the next gen consoles.
under Naka, for Sonic Heroes, for Shadow the Hedgehog and (Without Naka.) the calamity that was Sonic 06, they've killed the brand a lot more than one little bomb on the Wii U
Why do people even class Shadow as a Sonic game is beyond me - Its not a Sonic game but a spin off just like Lugi Mansion isn't a Mario Platform game . Under Sammy we've saw the mess that was Sonic 06 and then Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Boom which hurt the Sonic brand along with trip like Sonic the Black knight and then the total cock up of making Sonic exclusive to the Wii U and the sales disasters that Sonic Boom and Sonic Lost World .
So no Sonic isn't in good shape at all and now thanks to Sammy isn't even a million selling IP . I much rather if the team were just told 2 years ago to have 3 to 4 years making a Sonic game soul for the next gen and concentrate and work on nothing else than making a top quality Sonic game for the next gen (even if it just uses the best parts/stages from the likes of Colors, Sonic Adv and Adv II) .
It doesn't matter if it isn't, as long as it's a remake
The remake cop out ? . The upcoming DMC and DMV IV, Dark Souls II for the Xbox One and PS4 aren't remakes. I doubt many people will class them as new games for the Xbox One or PS4 , even if technically (at a push) they are.
Oh get lost. You'd rather scream like a fangirl over new technology instead of well thought out gameplay
LOL . Just admit the real reason for insult , is you haven't got anything to comeback with SEGA Japan simply don't have any tech engines to show off . Don't come it with the gameplay , because also with out a game engine you'll no game either and having good tech and decent pipe lines help the team make really good games and tech and engine count for a lot . With out the tech Jet Set Radio or the likes of Rez , Shenmue or even Exhumed on the Saturn wouldn't be half the games they were .
And double get lost if you think people should only enjoy AAA games, it says it all about you
More insults charming :( and I see more of your trademark spin . I'm sorry I don't just enjoy AAA games , but I like games to look good and where the produces give the team all they can to make the best game . I hardly doubt many people will call Ninja Blade or O.TO.GI II AAA games - but I loved them and its where the Team were allowed to make the games they like to make with some nice tech behind the game, very much like Binary Domain.
I really doubt Bloodbone is breaking any sort of budgets records - All it is a game made by a good team with some good Art and a nech tech from the R&D dept . Now if a tiny corp like Fromsoftware can do it, SEGA Japan should really be able too .
I do find Nagoshi's comments about Grand Theft Auto staggeringly hypocritical and silly
That's Nagoshi-san for you . I remember him saying that it would be easy for him to make a Monkey Ball 3 and then going into a rant about how there's too many sequel's, its too easy for teams and its not the SEGA way to make endless sequels lol .
I just don't understand why this series wouldn't work in the west, as many others have said
I think it came out late in the West and it was also hurt by the press (and this wasn't really SEGA fault) making out it was Shenmue meets GTA when the game totally wasn't . It was really a RPG dressed up in a modern world and so many people who were expecting a GTA game were in for a shock when they played Yakuza . It also was a very grown up game that took a while to get going and that never helped it . It's a shame as I feel Yakuza II was one of the best ever games made for the PS2
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Question is, at which point do I have to learn Japanese to enjoy the good Sega games. The Japan output is fucking amazing, here in the West it's....in fault, at best.
In my opinion there should be:
Sega Japan, making games
Sega America, translating and publishing SJ games on the West
Sega Europe, handling the 2nd party games
Sega should just embrace their japaneseness and focus on that niche in the West. There is space and demand for those games, and it would help Sega build up some much needed identity.
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^Honestly there's not much in Japan that interests me either. Now that Yakuza is getting translated, what do you want to play that's Japan only?
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^Honestly there's not much in Japan that interests me either. Now that Yakuza is getting translated, what do you want to play that's Japan only?
Mainly, PSO2.
But there's also some cool looking games on the 3DS, there's that PS3 game with the fighting anime chicks, Shining Resonance looks cool. Yakuza Zero is Japan exclusive for now as well, right?
Thing is, there are games coming out in Japan. Sega Games. I love Sega, I want to play their games, but I feel the West gets some bloody crums.
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Sega America, translating and publishing SJ games on the West
Sega Europe, handling the 2nd party games
Most people don't know, but Sega of America doesn't translate...Sega of Japan outsources translations to companies like Pole to Win etc. and then sets up staff to programm the translations into the game. Sega of America is all promotion and strategy etc.
Localization - SEGA of Japan Staff Credits
Product Development - Programming Lead Tamotsu Maeno
Product Development - System Programming Tomonori Oshita
Product Development - Interface Design Production Miho Nakamura
Product Development - Game Design Mariko Kawase
Product Development - Localization Support Hiromi Okada, Ryuki Matsuda, Hiroshi Ichikawa
Product Development - Special Thanks Hiroyuki Sakamoto
Product Testing Kouji Nagata, Junichi Shimizu, Akira Nishikawa, Osamu Satō, Kenji Takano, Keiichi Kigawa
Manual Production Yoshihiro Sakuta, Colin Restall, Tetsuya Honda
Localization Support Tatsuya Shikata, Nobuyuki Minato, Ai Sato
Text Localization Pole To Win Co. Ltd.
That's not much staff. Only a single person is doing the programming. No wonder the localization takes 9 months.
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Sales say otherwise and its got so bad for Sonic we've even had topics on here so about should SEGA leave Sonic alone and now with the news that Sonic Team are going mobile it looks like Sonic isn't going to be making his great return to the next gen consoles.
Sales say otherwise? What outside of Sonic Heroes, Sonic Generations did over 2 million, probably 3 by now, Sonic Colours has done over 2 million, probably 3 to 4 million by now considering the long tail. What, you think one failure is going to end the Sonic series, you're completely incorrect in that regards. Over 100 million downloads between Dash, Jump and Jump 2 I'm sure.
And quality wise Sonic is better now than he was in the 00s.
And people have asked Sonic to be left alone by SEGA (Or rather better care, but it seems you have trouble understanding basic points.) because Sonic Team is the most incompetent major developer in the industry which they've demonstrated time and again.
Why do people even class Shadow as a Sonic game is beyond me - Its not a Sonic game but a spin off just like Lugi Mansion isn't a Mario Platform game . Under Sammy we've saw the mess that was Sonic 06 and then Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Boom which hurt the Sonic brand along with trip like Sonic the Black knight and then the total cock up of making Sonic exclusive to the Wii U and the sales disasters that Sonic Boom and Sonic Lost World .So no Sonic isn't in good shape at all and now thanks to Sammy isn't even a million selling IP . I much rather if the team were just told 2 years ago to have 3 to 4 years making a Sonic game soul for the next gen and concentrate and work on nothing else than making a top quality Sonic game for the next gen (even if it just uses the best parts/stages from the likes of Colors, Sonic Adv and Adv II) .
Bloody hell what's wrong with you? You class Shadow the Hedgehog as a spinoff but tripe like Sonic Boom and Sonic and the Black Knight is not. And now you've shifted the discussion to blaming Sammy when we were talking about what happened under Naka's watch, face up to the fact he left the franchise in utter chaos.
Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 hurt the brand a lot more than any of those aforementioned titles and it's in a slightly better condition. You using one complete failure as to paint the franchise is doomed is stupidity, the franchise was in a worse state in the the mid 2000s and here we are, still getting Sonic games.
The remake cop out ? . The upcoming DMC and DMV IV, Dark Souls II for the Xbox One and PS4 aren't remakes. I doubt many people will class them as new games for the Xbox One or PS4 , even if technically (at a push) they are.
There is no cop out, you cannot understand English for some reason and you seem to jump some loops to not get what content even means.
LOL . Just admit the real reason for insult , is you haven't got anything to comeback with SEGA Japan simply don't have any tech engines to show off . Don't come it with the gameplay , because also with out a game engine you'll no game either and having good tech and decent pipe lines help the team make really good games and tech and engine count for a lot . With out the tech Jet Set Radio or the likes of Rez , Shenmue or even Exhumed on the Saturn wouldn't be half the games they were .
Like I said, I'm not the one who goes all giddy over the latest Sonic Team disaster because HEDGEHOG ENGINE IS SO AWESOME (Even though it's been debunked plenty of time it is a pretty poor engine.) and how Resident Evil 6 is fantastic because you seem to be in love with the technical power of the title.
The insult will keep coming with the stupid character assassinations you attempt, calling out me for my "supposed" spin because you don't seem to understand basic English.
More insults charming :( and I see more of your trademark spin . I'm sorry I don't just enjoy AAA games , but I like games to look good and where the produces give the team all they can to make the best game . I hardly doubt many people will call Ninja Blade or O.TO.GI II AAA games - but I loved them and its where the Team were allowed to make the games they like to make with some nice tech behind the game, very much like Binary Domain.
Trademark spin like how several = seven to you. This isn't me spinning, this is you lacking understanding of certain words in the English language.
I really doubt Bloodbone is breaking any sort of budgets records - All it is a game made by a good team with some good Art and a nech tech from the R&D dept . Now if a tiny corp like Fromsoftware can do it, SEGA Japan should really be able too .
And now you come back to my VERY first point that I spoke about a long time ago. That unless someone is willing to pay up, in this case Sony, for the budget of these games than Japanese developers will not be inclined to produce it.
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Question is, at which point do I have to learn Japanese to enjoy the good Sega games. The Japan output is fucking amazing, here in the West it's....in fault, at best.
And these amazing games would be ? I can't think of many good SEGA Japan made in the last year on this or last gen set of consoles (non HH)
Sales say otherwise
Yes they do . Sonic Boob and Sonic Lost World haven't even broken the million barrier for sales. The worst we've ever seen for Sonic in recent memory . Sorry mate Sonic isn't in good shape and at all . He's now the but of all jokes again and worst still SEGA only world wide multi million selling IP, now isn't a multi million seller . Cheers Sammy keep the good work coming .
Sonic Team is the most incompetent major developer in the industry
I would put to you that Sonic Gen , Sonic Colours and PSO II are rather good games .
There is no cop out
Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?
and how Resident Evil 6 is fantastic because you seem to be in love with the technical power of the title
Were are getting very childish aren't we ?. Like you to point out where I ever said Hedgehog engine was the best around , much less that I was in Love with RE 6 . RE 6 is a 'nice' game, but for me Deep Space II were simply better horror games for me .
Trademark spin like how several
Try no . I don't like a game just because some might class it as AAA. I don't like any of the GTA 3D games, but I do admire the tech and work that went into them .
That unless someone is willing to pay up, in this case Sony
Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ? , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech . Capcom made a class next gen with its MT framework and the likes of SONY or MS didn't pay for Lost Planet II or RE 5 . SEGA Japan are just behind on the tech game , face it
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Yes they do . Sonic Boob and Sonic Lost World haven't even broken the million barrier for sales. The worst we've ever seen for Sonic in recent memory . Sorry mate Sonic isn't in good shape and at all . He's now the but of all jokes again and worst still SEGA only world wide multi million selling IP, now isn't a multi million seller . Cheers Sammy keep the good work coming .
Neither did the like of Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Sonic Free Riders and a host of other Sonic titles. Outside of what, Sonic: Lost World and Sonic Boom, what do you have to fall back on Sonic's state? Because the series is far from dead and still makes plenty of money. We've got a television show and a film coming along and probably a game for traditional consoles.
Sonic being a joke was thanks to the likes of Shadow and 06, at least the later years with Colours, Generations and Transformed restore some of that dignity. And again, a failure on the Wii U does not mean Sonic isn't a multimillion seller anymore, further more, SEGA have two more multimillion selling IPs.
I would put to you that Sonic Gen , Sonic Colours and PSO II are rather good games .
And these happened under Sammy's watch, which isn't even the point. Naka let the series fall down to the absolute bottom and even Sonic Boom couldn't replicate the travesty that was Sonic 06.
Most of these improvements only happened after what, 9 years of almost constant trash? Surely that's the proof in the pudding of their incompetence.
Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?
New content? No, not what we were discussing with Mang, Crackdude and everyone else. New content means new video games, those have seen releases, even if they were lesser version, in the past.
Were are getting very childish aren't we ?. Like you to point out where I ever said Hedgehog engine was the best around , much less that I was in Love with RE 6 . RE 6 is a 'nice' game, but for me Deep Space II were simply better horror games for me .
I think considering the position I find myself in this forum, the friends I've established in this community and so fourth, that I'm not at all a child but being accused of spin by someone who does not understand the context of an argument, the definition of the word several and then being character assassinated by said person means I'm allowed to throw it back on you.
And now the you're acting as if you never pointed out how brilliant the Hedgehog Engine is, we've had this song and dance with several members and I recall plenty pointing out to you, much to your annoyance, that there was better engines out that from the likes of EA.
Try no . I don't like a game just because some might class it as AAA. I don't like any of the GTA 3D games, but I do admire the tech and work that went into them .
Now you're not even making sense with the quotes you're quoting.
But this is your problem, it's one of the things you look at straight away instead of "Is this a good game?"
Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ? , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech . Capcom made a class next gen with its MT framework and the likes of SONY or MS didn't pay for Lost Planet II or RE 5 . SEGA Japan are just behind on the tech game , face it
Of course Sony Japan and SEGA's close relationship works for Yakuza, when have I stated otherwise?
Dark Souls II only happened after Sony launched Demon's Souls and From Software was absolutely confident with the likes of Namco, willing to publish the title in the West from them. Capcom perfectly illustrates my case, from support from Microsoft with the releases of the original Dead Rising (And the third.) and Lost Planet to getting Sony to pony up for Street Fighter V and Deep Down, otherwise Capcom have been reluctant to produce major titles without a guarantee they will make profit off of the title.
So now we come full circle to my point, that content from Japanese developers or publishers are going to dry up unless one of the console makers pays up for it, is guaranteed to be a success or if the production is cheap enough to produce.
And where have I even said anything about SEGA's tech? Because please point it out, this has been a discussion about new video games, not technical showmanship.
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OH TA, you mean Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom which are both on the lowest selling Nintendo console did bad? You mean Sonic Boom which wasn't good and came out at the same time as Smash Bros (that had Sonic in it) did bad?
Must mean that Sonic brand is dying. That makes sense. :)
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Neither did the like of Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Sonic Free Riders and a host of other Sonic titles
So lets not make out Sonic in good shape when he's not . The side games aren't much of an issue , but now the main Sonic games aren't even selling close to a million copies and so SEGA Japan haven't got a world wide million seller anymore and its major IP can't sell over a million copies :(. Sonic not in great shape at all .
OH TA, you mean Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom which are both on the lowest selling Nintendo console did bad?
Yes and if you remember I said years back that the Sonic exclusive deal was a huge mistake and how Sonic should be not only on the next gen , but also a version on the 360 and PS3 - That's the best way to get sales not backing the flop that is the Wii U.
New content?
Spin again ? . Where's the yes or no and btw Dark Souls II on the Xbox One and PS4 features new content, new Online modes and reworked AI. What new content did Ishi on the PS4 feature over the PS3 version other than 60 fps and 1080P ?
And now the you're acting as if you never pointed out how brilliant the Hedgehog Engine is
Try no . I said for SEGA Japan it was a nice engine , compared to Capcom's MT Framework engine it came up way short, but at least the Hedgehog engine used some of the better shader effects and looked quite nice.
But this is your problem, it's one of the things you look at straight away instead of "Is this a good game
Stop the spin when it game is 1st shown off all we have to go on is every a early tech demo or screen shots and so that's when good tech and impressive GFX help to make you look forward to a game and gives you hope that is might end up to be good .
So don't come it on this engine . Look at SEGA America and its Alien Marines game - it got a huge outcry because the final game didn't match the so called real time game demo's SEGA was showing off - That's not a gameplay issue but a engine and GFX one . Still would have been a poor game for some, but if the game had a great engine and looked brilliant then a lot of the Alien Marines bad press wouldn't be there . Keeping with SOA... Alpha Protocol was a AAA game with a Huge budget and a well respected and established team making it , if it game engine and graphics were up to bar I'm sure the game would have done better myself
Why can't you just admit that SEGA Japan are way behind on the tech game ?
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I think a big issue is the AAA business model, just like Hollywood's current massive budget film model is fundamentally broken. An example of that in film is the Green Lantern movie. Whatever you think of the quality, it grossed $250 million world wide in cinema but was considered a flop due to the ridiculous budget it had. In the gaming space, this has led to buggy games being released with day 1 patches to get it on shelves as quickly as possible, day 1 DLC, on-disk DLC, pre-order bonuses, and other policies which erode customer's faith in modern gaming. Even with all these money grabbing policies, we still hear of AAA games selling millions of copies but being considered failures (see Resident Evil 6). The entire games industry should be moving to a model where the games have smaller budgets and thus a higher chance of success. Whether Sega successfully moves to that model is still a question we will not have an answer to for a while yet.
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we still hear of AAA games selling millions of copies but being considered failures (see Resident Evil 6)
Its only really seen as a failure as it didn't feel like a RE game and lost the plot midway through and turned into a 3rd person COD type game .
An example of that in film is the Green Lantern movie. Whatever you think of the quality, it grossed $250 million world wide in cinema but was considered a flop due to the ridiculous budget it had
You're always going to get that . The new Star Wars films were for many rubbish, even though they made millions and millions in profit . You know I bet James Cameron can made films like he did in the old days with rubbish small tiny budgets (I belived he even sleep in car to save in Hotel bills while making Terminator). But you know I rather see Cameron given a Huge budget so he can go to town and give us an epic . That to me is what SEGA Japan should be doing with its better Teams , for sure let smaller teams make the quick and easy game, but give the Yakuza Team and the like , the time money and engine/tools to make a really truly epic next gen Yakuza.
I'll also like to see the PSO II Team give the mandate to make a PSO epic for the new consoles and try and bring back the PSO magic to the consoles
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Sonic Boob
HNGGGGGG :o
Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?
I can't wait for Department of Motor Vehicles IV.
Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ? , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech .
I would hardly say it had great tech. It was downgraded to hell and looks pretty ordinary actually, they stripped out most of what made it look nice in the early trailers.
Still a good game, but not as good as it's precursors.
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It was downgraded to hell and looks pretty ordinary actually, they stripped out most of what made it look nice in the early trailer
Cut back a little from the demo, but is still looked lovely and was a briliant game . FromSoftware R&D team always give it team some nice tech to play with and have done since the PS days . Lets remember that From only have like 200 staff and yet that can make some stunning looking games fair play to them
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Cut back a little from the demo, but is still looked lovely and was a briliant game . FromSoftware R&D team always give it team some nice tech to play with and have done since the PS days . Lets remember that From only have like 200 staff and yet that can make some stunning looking games fair play to them
Cut back a LITTLE!?
Dude, that game was gutted to the shithouse! I've never seen such a horrible downgrade in my life!
Check out this image. Not only was the lighting engine completely removed, but so were the textures on the wall and I believe the character models were downgraded as well.
And after all that, they STILL couldn't get the game to run at 60fps and 1080p.
http://i.imgur.com/O9DCnJn.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/O9DCnJn.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/kz0vUJc.png (http://i.imgur.com/kz0vUJc.png)
http://cdn3.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/slide/noticias/65392/down.jpg (http://cdn3.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/slide/noticias/65392/down.jpg)
The way they advertised this game compared to how they released it was diabolical. Even the new re-release doesn't look as good as the original shots.
Say what you like about the gameplay, but you cannot praise this game for it's graphics and 'TECH'.
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So lets not make out Sonic in good shape when he's not . The side games aren't much of an issue , but now the main Sonic games aren't even selling close to a million copies and so SEGA Japan haven't got a world wide million seller anymore and its major IP can't sell over a million copies :( . Sonic not in great shape at all .
That's a silly claim. Monster Hunter must not be a 2 million seller because it couldn't shift those figures on consoles. No, it depends specifically if the demograph aligns with the userbase.
Sonic performs brilliant on mobile, his recent legacy titles such as Transformed and Generation continue to chart in good figures, the health of the franchise cannot be dedicated by either Sonic Boom or Sonic: Lost World who are selling worse than the third/fourth year of sales of the respective legacy titles.
Spin again ? . Where's the yes or no and btw Dark Souls II on the Xbox One and PS4 features new content, new Online modes and reworked AI. What new content did Ishi on the PS4 feature over the PS3 version other than 60 fps and 1080P ?
Your lack of understanding English I believe, not spin.
You seem to be unable to grasp that my new content comment was specifically about new video games SEGA, or anyone, was making. How you are failing to understand is leaving me bemused as you keep thinking content = volume or now, as in a portion of the game.
Try no . I said for SEGA Japan it was a nice engine , compared to Capcom's MT Framework engine it came up way short, but at least the Hedgehog engine used some of the better shader effects and looked quite nice.
No you specifically got annoyed when we compared to other engines that were far more impressive, those from Electronic Arts for example, that performed better. So that would indicate that even technology from the biggest third party was being challenged by the Hedgehog Engine.
So we can gather from that you were very invested in defending the engine despite it not being impressive even in 2008.
Stop the spin when it game is 1st shown off all we have to go on is every a early tech demo or screen shots and so that's when good tech and impressive GFX help to make you look forward to a game and gives you hope that is might end up to be good .
So don't come it on this engine . Look at SEGA America and its Alien Marines game - it got a huge outcry because the final game didn't match the so called real time game demo's SEGA was showing off - That's not a gameplay issue but a engine and GFX one . Still would have been a poor game for some, but if the game had a great engine and looked brilliant then a lot of the Alien Marines bad press wouldn't be there . Keeping with SOA... Alpha Protocol was a AAA game with a Huge budget and a well respected and established team making it , if it game engine and graphics were up to bar I'm sure the game would have done better myself
Why can't you just admit that SEGA Japan are way behind on the tech game ?
I think you'll find there are plenty of game that rely on gameplay and conveying a sense of fun that build up hype just as much as say, new technologies. The first impression of Binary Domain was downright bad, ditto for Vanquish, it was only when gameplay was shown off of either titles did people get interested in either games.
And I don't know why you're trying to bring tech into this discussion. You're beef with my points in this topic have not been about engines or programming but a clear misunderstanding of key words I've been using.
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Dude, that game was gutted to the shithouse! I've never seen such a horrible downgrade in my life
I played the demo and remember the NeoFAQ outcry to that of the final game . The game still looked really good and featured very nice graphics.
I think you'll find there are plenty of game that rely on gameplay and conveying a sense of fun that build up hype just as much as say, new technologies
One can't tell how good or bad a game is until one gets to play it- that tends to happen way, way down the line . When a game is 1st shown off, all people have to go is either a screen shot or a small gameplay vid and then it goes on from there .
No you specifically got annoyed when we compared to other engines that were far more impressive
I like for you to show me and quote me when I said that the Hedgehog engine was better than Capcom MT Framework or EA Frostbite engine .
You seem to be unable to grasp that my new content comment was specifically about new video games SEGA
So that's code for no there's no new content in the PS4 version of Ishi ?
That's a silly claim. Monster Hunter must not be a 2 million seller because it couldn't shift those figures on consoles
? Monster Hunter is massive and Capcom are wise not to tie it to the Wii U . Sonic can't even sell well on the 3DS and yet you make out he's in good shape lol ?
Sonic performs brilliant on mobile
I give you that , sad to see what become of SEGA Japan only worldwide multi million selling IP. If the best you can do is talk about mobile games or Sonic Generations which is old Wii Game .
The first impression of Binary Domain was downright bad,
Until SEGA produced a decent trailer showing footage taken in game and then loads of people started to change their tune on the title.
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I played the demo and remember the NeoFAQ outcry to that of the final game . The game still looked really good and featured very nice graphics.
The graphics are really nothing special, did you look at the links I posted in reply? I've finished the game and bought it at launch, I still think it was a pretty good game, but the graphics were mediocre to poor for the most part, and there were clear and disappointing downgrades in the final game. Nickel and Diming with the new re-release is disgusting too.
NeoFAQ?
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One can't tell how good or bad a game is until one gets to play it- that tends to happen way, way down the line . When a game is 1st shown off, all people have to go is either a screen shot or a small gameplay vid and then it goes on from there .
And you don't need to have a state of the art engine to show off good gameplay.
I like for you to show me and quote me when I said that the Hedgehog engine was better than Capcom MT Framework or EA Frostbite engine .
I don't have to show you because you can ask any forum member here other than probably Ryan and they'll all back up how defensive you became over the engine. In particular MadeManG pointed out to you EA's racers have a better engine than Sonic Unleashed.
So that's code for no there's no new content in the PS4 version of Ishi ?
No it's you unable to understand English?
Ishin is a new video game, because this isn't a remake or a port. This is what people want from SEGA, that was the basic point I made but you throw in how it couldn't be an original Playstation 4 game. Okay, but that wasn't what was being discussed and you seem eager to rush in and enter an argument without knowing the context of the debate, the use of the words and the points I established.
? Monster Hunter is massive and Capcom are wise not to tie it to the Wii U . Sonic can't even sell well on the 3DS and yet you make out he's in good shape lol ?
According to you because specific entries fail to meet targets, without looking at the bigger picture, than we should be concluding that Monster Hunter is no longer a massive franchise. It is of course a big franchise and Sonic is still a multimillion selling IP despite certain failures.
And Sonic does still sell decently on handhelds, he has however, not been a big seller there. The likes of Sonic Rush, Rivals etc do a decent amount but Sonic's real bread and butter are consoles. I'd also add that Sonic Generations did well on the 3DS.
I give you that , sad to see what become of SEGA Japan only worldwide multi million selling IP. If the best you can do is talk about mobile games or Sonic Generations which is old Wii Game .
Sonic Generations was not released for the Wii.
Again this isn't what has become of Sonic because we do not know what else SEGA has planned for the franchise outside of producing the Sonic film, a television series and Sonic Runners. This is about the supposed state of the franchise and historical data suggests that Sonic failed because of the Wii U and not because of the brand.
Until SEGA produced a decent trailer showing footage taken in game and then loads of people started to change their tune on the title.
But the graphics were just as good for Binary Domain in the initial trailer as it was in the later. It was showing of gameplay which excited people, not the graphics of the game.
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And you don't need to have a state of the art engine to show off good gameplay
Sure it's a complete package . But if your game looks great then its helps to get more gamers interested in the title .If Halo looked like crap on the XBox I doubt it would have got half the hype it did (or sell as well) . If Daytona USA on the Saturn looked half has good as RR on the PS or Sega Rally On the Saturn then I'm sure Saturn sales would have been much better early in .
I don't have to show you because you can ask any forum member
You do have to show it, becasue I never said it all and I you to prove otherwise . MT Framework engine is the most impressive engine I seen from a Japan developer and for me in most cases more impressive than Unreal 3 .
Ishin is a new video game, because this isn't a remake or a port.
Its a PS3 game running on the PS4 . No different from AC Blackfalg running on the PS4 and XBone One .
According to you because specific entries fail to meet targets
? Monster Hunter more than meets is sales targets . It was the likes of Lost Planet 3 that didn't come close to their sales targets .
And Sonic does still sell decently on handhelds
That's it in a nutshell . SEGA's once mighty IP now can only sale in decent numbers onthe mobile platform and even then Sonic sales of late on the handheld aren't that great
SEGA has planned for the franchise outside of producing the Sonic film, a television series and Sonic Runners
That to me sounds like a sure fire way to kill Sonic once and for all .
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Sure it's a complete package . But if your game looks great then its helps to get more gamers interested in the title .If Halo looked like crap on the XBox I doubt it would have got half the hype it did (or sell as well) . If Daytona USA on the Saturn looked half has good as RR on the PS or Sega Rally On the Saturn then I'm sure Saturn sales would have been much better early in .
You do have to show it, becasue I never said it all and I you to prove otherwise . MT Framework engine is the most impressive engine I seen from a Japan developer and for me in most cases more impressive than Unreal 3 .
Its a PS3 game running on the PS4 . No different from AC Blackfalg running on the PS4 and XBone One .
? Monster Hunter more than meets is sales targets . It was the likes of Lost Planet 3 that didn't come close to their sales targets .
That's it in a nutshell . SEGA's once mighty IP now can only sale in decent numbers onthe mobile platform and even then Sonic sales of late on the handheld aren't that great
That to me sounds like a sure fire way to kill Sonic once and for all .
Sega's biggest problem is they have only one global brand (Sonic); the rest of their line-up is either Japan only or Western only. This makes them increasingly irrelevant in the global market.
Instead of building up or rebuilding their IPs, they have thought short-term and just spammed out Sonic games with no regard for quality.
That's Sammy in a nutshell; the quick, cheap, fast buck, no long term building. They don't care and it shows.
Contrast this with the Sega of the 80s and 90s which made games (OutRun being the most genius example of this) aimed at appealing to the global market.
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Its funny that TA is OK with Monster Hunter, a non-triple AAA franchise selling a lot, further enforcing my point that Triple A (aka big budget titles) are products of the mid 2000's.
Get with it, kids, teens and adults are all enjoying millions of mobile apps and indie games. Game's like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are the craze. Retro remakes are making bank.
Sure, triple A titles will always exist, but that place is so crowded that we are seeing tons of companies fail (see the list of all Capcom western AAA titles).
Hate SEGA, but they are the ones pushing forward to new frontiers: Leading mobile and having western studios that actually have established brands (Total War, Company of Heroes, Football Manager) while Capcom made Dark Void.
I do agree that Capcom is better at sponsoring in-house IPs (for the most part) world wide than SEGA. Street Fighter is still a house hold name, especially after the focus on 4. Monster Hunter shares success world wide.
Sadly they also fuck up (see Megaman).
I do wish that SEGA would focus on making VF6 a success that VF4 was world-wide (game did over a million in the west).
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The problem was always Sega of America post 2004 or even post-Dreamcast sometimes.
Sega of Japan always do what they do but the principal western side of SOA screwed up so many times even with the good will of Hayes on the board. Remember, Hayes was President in both sides of the West.
I hope that the new team in Southern California erase all the past mistakes and do what they did it right years ago.
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Oh yeah, which I don't get why people where shocked that SEGA of America 'cleaned house'. Hey, I think one of the strongest thing SOA did was have good community team for fans and was doing decently with digital titles. Outside of that, its really hard to look at all the retail games SOA handled and go 'Oh no, I'm going to miss this'.
So i'm shocked at how many people where made at the firings.
It wasn't about the money, SEGA Networks just bought 3 new teams in America after they announced the firings. In the end, it was just SOA blundering all the games they where a part of. Honestly would have cut ties after Golden Axe was screwed up.
How you gonna get a team that is terrible?
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Sure it's a complete package . But if your game looks great then its helps to get more gamers interested in the title .If Halo looked like crap on the XBox I doubt it would have got half the hype it did (or sell as well) . If Daytona USA on the Saturn looked half has good as RR on the PS or Sega Rally On the Saturn then I'm sure Saturn sales would have been much better early in .
Graphics are only one factor, we've had multiple great looking AAA title fail with both critical acclaim and sales already this generation. The point however is, that having state of the art tech is not the only thing that gets people hyped up as we still get plenty of moderate looking games still selling decent numbers.
You do have to show it, becasue I never said it all and I you to prove otherwise . MT Framework engine is the most impressive engine I seen from a Japan developer and for me in most cases more impressive than Unreal 3 .
You can just check up your discussion with MadeManG about Sonic Unleashed vs Burnout, it's pretty easy to see how you got so defensive.
Its a PS3 game running on the PS4 . No different from AC Blackfalg running on the PS4 and XBone One .
And if you so my previous post I used LittleBigPlanet 3 as a discussion. The debate wasn't about console exclusive but about video gaming content.
? Monster Hunter more than meets is sales targets . It was the likes of Lost Planet 3 that didn't come close to their sales targets .
That wasn't... What I was getting at all.
It was that because certain titles might not sell as much as others does not indicate the overall health of the brand. Sonic: Lost World and Sonic Boom failed, yes, however Sonic Generations and Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed continue to sell and sell very well at that for titles that are more than a couple of years old. Likewise console versions of Monster Hunter do not sell nearly as well as the handheld versions, you must look at the entire picture and not just part of it to be able to establish a pattern.
That's it in a nutshell . SEGA's once mighty IP now can only sale in decent numbers onthe mobile platform and even then Sonic sales of late on the handheld aren't that great
Sonic was hardly a massive seller on handhelds outside of the 1990s. You're acting like he was a big seller on the Gameboy Advance etc when it's clear the franchise is very console centric.
That to me sounds like a sure fire way to kill Sonic once and for all .
Outside of a mobile games, that sounds like a sure fire way to make Sonic as popular as he could ever be. His resurgence in popularity really occurred because of the Sonic X television and it will probably occur again once he's multiplatform and his movie hits.
Sega's biggest problem is they have only one global brand (Sonic); the rest of their line-up is either Japan only or Western only. This makes them increasingly irrelevant in the global market.
Japan is irrelevant in the global console market and Sonic is irrelevant in Japan, the series is pretty much a Western brand. Better off either strengthening Western development arms and/or getting their Japanese teams to develop for the West, though I'd feel more confident in the former than the latter.
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Graphics are only one factor, we've had multiple great looking AAA title fail with both critical acclaim and sales already this generation.
Like I said its a complete package , but the best games are the ones that tend to feature good graphics and also great gameplay . Like with films... Take the effects away from Star Wars A New Hope and I doubt it would have had anywhere near the impact it did .
You can just check up your discussion with MadeManG about Sonic Unleashed vs Burnout
I take it this your spin ? You show me and you quote me where in that topic I made out that Sonic Gen/Unleashed looked better than 'MT Framework' or 'Frostbite engine' . That's looking over how I was never impressed with the 'Renderware' graphics in Burnout.
And if you so my previous post I used LittleBigPlanet 3
Yep a PS3 game running on the PS4 . Kind of hard to get excited by LBP on the PS4 which is why I haven't talked the game up at all.
however Sonic Generations and Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed continue to sell and sell very well at that for titles that are more than a couple of years old.
They're old games . Lets talk about there here and now and thanks to Sammy stupid move to lock Sonic on the Wii U we've now seen Sonic get some of the worst sales yet for a main Sonic game .
Sonic was hardly a massive seller on handhelds outside of the 1990s
Never said he was massive and always make that point when talking about Capcom sales . Thing was most of the main Sonic games managed to seller a million plus copies - not so for Sonic Lost World . Sonic should have been multi platform .
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Like I said its a complete package , but the best games are the ones that tend to feature good graphics and also great gameplay . Like with films... Take the effects away from Star Wars A New Hope and I doubt it would have had anywhere near the impact it did .
Video games and films are not even the same.
The best games last year featured old tech and the ones with the best tech were a disappointment, I'm not sure where you think good graphics equal great gameplay, since Nintendo limited themselves to the Wii and then the Wii U and we got indie popping up left, right and centre we have seen the best games featuring anything but cutting edge graphics.
I take it this your spin ? You show me and you quote me where in that topic I made out that Sonic Gen/Unleashed looked better than 'MT Framework' or 'Frostbite engine' . That's looking over how I was never impressed with the 'Renderware' graphics in Burnout.
Selective memory, you can ask any one member here who participated in that discussion, George, myself, MadeManG and you will find all of us point out how you made out the Hedgehog Engine was something to be excited about when it just wasn't the case.
Yep a PS3 game running on the PS4 . Kind of hard to get excited by LBP on the PS4 which is why I haven't talked the game up at all.
So now you've established what basis of the discussion is than you know it has nothing, and never had anything, to do with console exclusives. People want new content and Ishin and Zero was that.
They're old games . Lets talk about there here and now and thanks to Sammy stupid move to lock Sonic on the Wii U we've now seen Sonic get some of the worst sales yet for a main Sonic game .
No they're relevant to the discussion because they show the condition of the brand. They show Sonic can still sell on consoles, they show he has pull with mainstream audience. Sonic selling poorly on the Wii U does not show the brand is at it's low point, it shows the Wii U is a low point for almost any brand that comes close to it.
Never said he was massive and always make that point when talking about Capcom sales . Thing was most of the main Sonic games managed to seller a million plus copies - not so for Sonic Lost World . Sonic should have been multi platform .
Sonic the Hedgehog 06 did not manage to sell a million copies, one failure does not indicate the health of the brand when other areas, the catalog and mobile, continue to do well. Sonic's decline has nothing to do with the status of the series but with the console it is on.
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I think going multiplatform for any kind of japanese videogame company in this generation is a double-edged sword.
First, you can expand your margin of sales and create something with more money on it, but also, you need to speculate about the results, suffer the double of the loss if you fail to meet your expectations and divide the budget in between the releases...and I didn't count the taxes, distribution, localization, 9 months cycle and publicity investments which are increased by three if you wanna go full multiplat.
I can say the same about the Western developers but it's more problematic than the latter.
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Video games and films are not even the same
That's not what I'm saying but like in a film where the story, script, effects, acting music score all need to come together for a really good and memorable film then in a game you need the GFX, Sound , Gameplay, Level design control to all come together and then you're on to a making a memorable game.
The best games last year featured old tech and the ones with the best tech were a disappointment
Games are subjective for a start. Most of the better games made over the last year or so have some real good tech behind them , and by the same token of AAA tech doesn't mean its a must have game, just because you have low level tech doesn't mean you're going to have a must have game . I mean for many GTA V was their game of the year and that featured some of the best tech one would see
Selective memory, you can ask any one member here who participated in that discussion
By All means quote me , or take it back . You know full well I never ever made out Sonic Heg engine was better than MT Framework .
So now you've established what basis of the discussion is than you know it has nothing
Spinning again are we ? I'm saying that when you buy a next gen system its very hard to get excited about a game that was made for last gen system and just brought out to your new console not matter how good the game is . I love the Saturn, but found it very hard to get excited about Sonic Island/3D or Earthworm Jim II on the Saturn - games that were really nothing more than Mega Drive games running on a Saturn with basic GFX upgrades. Did any Saturn owner count Sonic 3D as a true new Sonic entry , I'm sure in a old Sonic discussion not even you did for added irony.
No they're relevant to the discussion because they show the condition of the brand
You go buy how the last games sells, not how a title years before did . Shenmue sold over a million, but SEGA money men would just go on what Shenmue II sold . Sakura Wars was a great seller on the Saturn and DC, but Sammy would look at how well SW V sold on the PS2 when considering a sequel . So no Sorry Sonic isn't in great shape on the 'consoles' thanks to Sammy move to lock it to Nintendo Wii U.
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The issue is that Sonic being on Wii U isn't the issue, its that Sonic Boom was a bad game and came out the same time as Smash Bros on the Wii U, which also featured Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic Boom TV show was aimed mainly at kids (though it had a strong adult viewing base) by being put on TV early in the morning. Right, say your a kid and you have a Wii U, would you rather buy another Sonic game (which one was just released last year) that has been bashed online (kids love these Youtube let's play and this game had plenty of it) or pick up the most hyped Nintendo game, period?
Lost World is also another game that takes a step back, do you think it would have done better on the Playstation 4?
Personally think SEGA needs to step back and see what makes the Sonic brand viable and fun. I think they captured a good portion of it in Sonic Generations, but it seems that Sonic Team thinks they need to reinvent the fucking wheel instead of continuing to polish what they have and adding on more polished parts.
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Lost World is also another game that takes a step back, do you think it would have done better on the Playstation 4
It should have also been on the 360 and PS3 and XBox One as well - on all those systems it would have been a million seller easy , more so with the kids getting a 360 or PS3 for Christmas.Backing he Wii U was just a total dumb move
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I think going multiplatform for any kind of japanese videogame company in this generation is a double-edged sword.
First, you can expand your margin of sales and create something with more money on it, but also, you need to speculate about the results, suffer the double of the loss if you fail to meet your expectations and divide the budget in between the releases...and I didn't count the taxes, distribution, localization, 9 months cycle and publicity investments which are increased by three if you wanna go full multiplat.
I can say the same about the Western developers but it's more problematic than the latter.
I'd like to see more publishers take the approach that Yakuza 5 is getting, in a physical release in Japan which is teh 'safe' territory, then digital release elsewhere to minimise risk. You still have the translation costs, but it's much easier than distributing a phyiscal release and worrying about dealing with the retailers etc.
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Sega should always focus on delivering fantastic games. That's all. Say what you will of Sonic Boom's platform of choice but that thing was destined to be a stinker regardless of how many or what system it came out on.
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It should have also been on the 360 and PS3 and XBox One as well - on all those systems it would have been a million seller easy , more so with the kids getting a 360 or PS3 for Christmas.Backing he Wii U was just a total dumb move
I agree with this to a degree. Sonic Lost World is not a bad game. It had some interesting ideas that were not completely fleshed out. If it had a multiplatform release with the popularity of Sonic, it may have gotten enough sales to get a direct sequel which could have polished the ideas to realise the potential it had. As it was, it came off as a Mario Galaxy clone on a system which can play 2 Mario Galaxy games which DO have that polish.
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I agree with this to a degree. Sonic Lost World is not a bad game. It had some interesting ideas that were not completely fleshed out.
That's the trouble with Colors, Gen and Lost World - they're almost there but not quite . Which is why I just want the team to only focus 100% on 1 Sonic game - No worrying about HH versions, no producing and looking over outsourced Sonic games - The Team just 100% working on One Sonic game and if it takes 3 to 4 years to get it done, so be it .
That's what I like to see
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Yeah, AM2 likes to take their with Virtua Fighter too, why not do the same with Sonic.
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That's not what I'm saying but like in a film where the story, script, effects, acting music score all need to come together for a really good and memorable film then in a game you need the GFX, Sound , Gameplay, Level design control to all come together and then you're on to a making a memorable game.
But you specifically pointed out the CGI.
In games you do not need cutting edge graphics, which was the initial point, to stand out anymore. You just need a game that looks fun. Persona 5 just started riding the hype wave by just having a pleasing art direction and music, not high tech graphics.
Games are subjective for a start. Most of the better games made over the last year or so have some real good tech behind them , and by the same token of AAA tech doesn't mean its a must have game, just because you have low level tech doesn't mean you're going to have a must have game . I mean for many GTA V was their game of the year and that featured some of the best tech one would see
But we can agree to a consensus and on that regards the best games tend to be the ones that are published by Nintendo who has limited themselves to low end tech. So you can't argue that graphics aren't what catches people's eyes, a well produced gameplay segment tops state of the art tech. The point wasn't though that high end or low end games make a must have game, it just so happens to be in this day and age graphics are not the be all end all of gaming.
By All means quote me , or take it back . You know full well I never ever made out Sonic Heg engine was better than MT Framework .
Never even mentioned MT Framework, just how you mentioned it was a top engine when various members argued it was subpar, something you got defensive about.
Spinning again are we ? I'm saying that when you buy a next gen system its very hard to get excited about a game that was made for last gen system and just brought out to your new console not matter how good the game is . I love the Saturn, but found it very hard to get excited about Sonic Island/3D or Earthworm Jim II on the Saturn - games that were really nothing more than Mega Drive games running on a Saturn with basic GFX upgrades. Did any Saturn owner count Sonic 3D as a true new Sonic entry , I'm sure in a old Sonic discussion not even you did for added irony.
Again, this isn't spinning, this is a failure at reading comprehension about yourself.
This discussion was never about console exclusives, this was never about if the Playstation 4 or Xbox One was worth it, this was if SEGA was still producing video games that people are interested in. That was the debate, the discussion, something you seem to be overlooking. No spin, just a failure to understand what we have been talking about.
You go buy how the last games sells, not how a title years before did . Shenmue sold over a million, but SEGA money men would just go on what Shenmue II sold . Sakura Wars was a great seller on the Saturn and DC, but Sammy would look at how well SW V sold on the PS2 when considering a sequel . So no Sorry Sonic isn't in great shape on the 'consoles' thanks to Sammy move to lock it to Nintendo Wii U.
Your examples are relatively different to the Sonic the Hedgehog brand. The original Shenmue and prior Sakura Wars title stopped selling at a certain point whilst older Sonic titles continue to sell, and sell good numbers too. To imply that Sonic's days as a console series is numbered due to minor failures on a failed console is pure ludicrous but this was never the original point and I'm not sure why you veered off course from the main discussion again to an unrelated discussion.
You argued that Sonic can no longer be considered a multi-million selling franchise but this is an incorrect assumption. As proven with catalog sales, far from it, Sonic is still a multimillion selling franchise.
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But you specifically pointed out the CGI
Like I say what gets one hooked in a New Hope ? That opening Scene with the huge star destroyer flying over gets you into the film straight away , with out the effects I bet Star Wars would never have had the impact , but if one looks at the last 3 Star Wars films even thought the effects were good, the script and films were poor . Like with games even if you got an amazing engine you need a game to back it up .
Nintendo who has limited themselves to low end tech
A lot of that is down the Hardware , but Mario Kart 7 and Pikmin III look brilliant for the hardware they are on
Never even mentioned MT Framework
So take it back then . I never said it and please don't make out I did .
This discussion was never about console exclusives
Right and on that score I'll not class a game that looks and plays pretty much the same on the PS3 as PS4 exclusive.
Your examples are relatively different to the Sonic the Hedgehog brand
Its how the business works. The top brass and money men will always look at how the last game performed , not how well a previous title did on a previous gen years back.
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Like I say what gets one hooked in a New Hope ? That opening Scene with the huge star destroyer flying over gets you into the film straight away , with out the effects I bet Star Wars would never have had the impact , but if one looks at the last 3 Star Wars films even thought the effects were good, the script and films were poor . Like with games even if you got an amazing engine you need a game to back it up .
Again you are comparing films and video games when they should never be compared.
The point wasn't about what you need beside an engine, the point was gameplay trumps state of the art engines everyday.
A lot of that is down the Hardware , but Mario Kart 7 and Pikmin III look brilliant for the hardware they are on
We are not talking about specific hardware, we were talking about graphics pleasing people. You can't say simply because of the hardware they're on that they look brilliant, Nintendo does not exist in a vacuum and the point was the best games do not have the best graphics.
So take it back then . I never said it and please don't make out I did .
I don't have to take back something because I never even mentioned, you invented it in your head when I mentioned how fantastic you thought the Hedgehog Engine was. This is undeniable, the Sonic Unleashed topic is proof of this.
Right and on that score I'll not class a game that looks and plays pretty much the same on the PS3 as PS4 exclusive.
And the point was never about console exclusives, it's something you entirely made up. The point was about content, which is what SEGA fans. However you twisted it into something I never said after mentioning Ishin and Zero.
Its how the business works. The top brass and money men will always look at how the last game performed , not how well a previous title did on a previous gen years back.
You have no idea how the top brass works though, you don't know if they accounted the Wii U for giving poor sales for the Sonic brand or not. But this is besides the point, I've pointed out how you are largely incorrect to call time on the Sonic brand and act like it's not even a million seller anymore.
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the point was gameplay trumps state of the art engines everyday
Never said otherwise , but when a game is 1st shown off in a screen shot or in a small preview vid all one has to go on is how the game looks and sounds . When I was going into the Arcades back in the early 80's what drew me to Space Harrier and the OutRun coin ups was the amazing sound and visuals on display and other hand G-Loc which looked and sounded amazing play like utter rubbish.
You can't say simply because of the hardware they're on that they look brilliant,
Why not, when the Wii U is hardly any more powerful than the 360 or PS3 . Pikmin III looks quite stunning in parts .
I don't have to take back something because I never even mentioned
It quite clear what you said ,It's quite obvious you can't find the quote and trying to backtrack . Like I said, I never ever made out that the Hedgehog engine was more impressive than either Capcom's MT Framework or EA/Dice Frostbite engines.
The point was about content
What every way you want to class it, its hard to get worked up about a game that looks and plays almost exactly the same on the PS4 as it does on the PS3 and you name me any game that doesn't have 'content' because every single game ever made does , The content that is in Ishi on the PS4 is exactly the same as what's in the PS3 - . Like I say at the mo SEGA Japan don't have any next gen tech to show off at the mo , do they ? .
You have no idea how the top brass works though
And you do ? . The money men will always look at how the last game performed and sold that's what usually either spells a end to a game or when the game is green lite to produce a sequel . Tying Sonic to the Wii U was just a total cock up on SEGA/Sammy port and lets hope that SEGA don't make the same mistake again and make Sonic multi platform again
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Never said otherwise , but when a game is 1st shown off in a screen shot or in a small preview vid all one has to go on is how the game looks and sounds . When I was going into the Arcades back in the early 80's what drew me to Space Harrier and the OutRun coin ups was the amazing sound and visuals on display and other hand G-Loc which looked and sounded amazing play like utter rubbish.
We're not in the 1980s anymore, the industry has changed. But you did make the (poor) correlation between graphics and the best games.
Why not, when the Wii U is hardly any more powerful than the 360 or PS3 . Pikmin III looks quite stunning in parts .
Because if we're talking about graphics that wow people on solely that, graphics, then the Wii U is a poor choice to make that argument.
It quite clear what you said ,It's quite obvious you can't find the quote and trying to backtrack . Like I said, I never ever made out that the Hedgehog engine was more impressive than either Capcom's MT Framework or EA/Dice Frostbite engines.
No it's quite clear you have problems either understanding English or poor recollection of the events. It's been established by every major forum member here your defensive attitude towards the engine.
I have no need to quote you on anything as you clearly started this and continue to drag up (Incorrectly remembered.) past events.
What every way you want to class it, its hard to get worked up about a game that looks and plays almost exactly the same on the PS4 as it does on the PS3 and you name me any game that doesn't have 'content' because every single game ever made does , The content that is in Ishi on the PS4 is exactly the same as what's in the PS3 - . Like I say at the mo SEGA Japan don't have any next gen tech to show off at the mo , do they ? .
Again you aren't getting grips with what the word content means which is why you always bring up the next gen tech for some reason. Content means new video games and I'm sure plenty of people would like to play Ishin or Zero on either console, this wasn't a debate about is actually producing the best looking game but if SEGA has enough content produced to support some player's appetite.
And you do ? . The money men will always look at how the last game performed and sold that's what usually either spells a end to a game or when the game is green lite to produce a sequel . Tying Sonic to the Wii U was just a total cock up on SEGA/Sammy port and lets hope that SEGA don't make the same mistake again and make Sonic multi platform again
And have I implied that I know what is going in their heads? No, however I have pointed out numerous times the fallacy of your arguments and the incorrect judgement you make. This splinter of discussion only began because you wanted to drum hard that the series was no longer a multimillion seller then went further off in how you tried to paint knowing the inner workings of SEGA.
However after confirming Sonic is still going to be appearing on consoles, following two disappointments on the Wii U, I think it's fair to say you've been proven wrong again.
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We're not in the 1980s anymore, the industry has changed
No we're in the modern age where games are shown off straight away and so trying to make a impact is even more important . No more waiting for the latest issue of a gaming mag or a trade show . Games are shown off also as soon as they're announced and in most cases long before the basic gameplay and game functions are all in . So all we have to go on is the screen shots or the CGI intro and if we're lucky a gameplay vid
Because if we're talking about graphics that wow people on solely that, graphics
Well its hard to get 'wow' with the Wii U, but that doesn't take away from some of its better looking games like Pikmin III
It's been established by every major forum member here your defensive attitude
No what's quite clear is you can't find and produce those quotes . So please take it back. I never ever made out Hedgehog engine is better than MT Framework or Frostbite at all.
game but if SEGA has enough content produced to support some player's appetite
C'mon then what next gen tech have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan ?
However after confirming Sonic is still going to be appearing on consoles, following two disappointments on the Wii U, I think it's fair to say you've been proven wrong again
I'll think you find I was one of the ones calling SEGA out for tying in the Wii U and that Sonic should be multi platform, just a shame SammySEGA didn't see the same years back. Maybe they'll wake up to making PSO II multi platform for the consoles too
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No we're in the modern age where games are shown off straight away and so trying to make a impact is even more important . No more waiting for the latest issue of a gaming mag or a trade show . Games are shown off also as soon as they're announced and in most cases long before the basic gameplay and game functions are all in . So all we have to go on is the screen shots or the CGI intro and if we're lucky a gameplay vid
But your point is in relation to wow-ing people and evidently we've seen that wow-ing or impressing people in the final product has little to do with graphics but gameplay, a correlation you tried to prove but it is false.
Well its hard to get 'wow' with the Wii U, but that doesn't take away from some of its better looking games like Pikmin III
The point is the graphics is not what sold these games but their gameplay.
No what's quite clear is you can't find and produce those quotes . So please take it back. I never ever made out Hedgehog engine is better than MT Framework or Frostbite at all.
Not at all, I don't need to produce quotes to the one who always throws baseless accusations, failing to understand context or just lacking the vocabulary in knowing what certain words mean.
C'mon then what next gen tech have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan ?
I don't care about the tech about a game, I care if it's a good game and that's what the majority of people want, good games.
I'll think you find I was one of the ones calling SEGA out for tying in the Wii U and that Sonic should be multi platform, just a shame SammySEGA didn't see the same years back. Maybe they'll wake up to making PSO II multi platform for the consoles too
That's not the point and besides, you act as if you were the only one thinking Sonic on the Wii U was a good idea, there was a massive outcry within this very board about that decision.
The point is though is you implied that Sonic is neither a multimillion seller anymore nor is the brand in good health and that SEGA's upper management would be considering axing the mainline Sonic series which just was not the case.
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But your point is in relation to wow-ing people and evidently we've seen that wow-ing or impressing people in the final product has little to do with graphics but gameplay
The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..
The point is the graphics is not what sold these games but their gameplay
I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .Not at all, I don't need to produce quotes to the one
You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.I don't care about the tech about a game
So nothing then . So lets leave it at that
That's not the point and besides, you act as if you were the only one thinking Sonic on the Wii U was a good idea
It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .
The point is though is you implied that Sonic is neither a multimillion seller anymore nor is the brand in good health and that SEGA'
Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here, there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game
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The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..
Most have a decent idea about how gameplay is, the ones that have relied on graphics have all been failures so far.
I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .
Art direction = / = technological specification
You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.
They do exist, you have shown to be highly defensive of the Hedgehog Engine. This is the truth and had arguments with myself, Orta, MadeManG and George about it. Why am I not bothering, why should I? You initiated the mud slinging match, amongst other inccorect statements, because you couldn't understand my points or the English I used (Such as "several")
So nothing then . So lets leave it at that
So what was the point, you asked and it wasn't related to the question at all, another ploy to take this argument somewhere it was never meant to be?
It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .
Unfortunately no it wasn't. You moved this discussion from the health of the Sonic brand/is the series a million seller to here, when it has no relevance other than why SEGA put Sonic on the Wii U which wasn't what we were debating.
Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here, there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game
Oh please, like Sonic wasn't the butt of jokes in 2005 with Shadow the Hedgehog? Or Sonic 06? Or Sonic Unleashed? Don't try and spin this into a recent event, this has been going on for a decade now and it's not because Sonic was on the Wii U.
Sales wise Sonic 06 wasn't even a million seller in it's initial period but it got there eventually. Sonic: Lost World has actually sold to date a faster rate than 06. But this was besides the point, you flip flop all over the place you don't even know what you're arguing, fact is the series isn't in bad health because the very moment it becomes multiplatform again it instantly becomes a million seller.
Laughable you call Sonic Team good in one moment but wash away all the sins they've done to the franchise beforehand.
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The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..
I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.
So nothing then . So lets leave it at that
It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .
Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here, there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game
TA, I thought you were pretty on board with the Hedgehog Engine? I'm not going to spend time going through the past forum posts either, but I honestly thought you were very into it in the past. I might be wrong, but I thought you compared it favorably to Yakuza engine and other PS3-gen engines.
Being a good looking game doesn't make it an impressive game. Graphics have more or less maxed out. No one cares about them anymore.
Sonic Boom was just one in a very long series of cockups. I don't think it spells doom for the series. I don't think Sonic has been "healthy" since Sonic Heroes. Sonic Boom and Lost World didn't sell millions, but they will long term. Sonic and the Secret Rings took forever to sell, but it damn near broke 3 mill didn't it? People don't buy Sonic full price, and haven't since the Dreamcast. He's a mascot without a system.
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I might be wrong, but I thought you compared it favorably to Yakuza engine and other PS3-gen engines.
No you're not. Its far better than the Yakuza game engine and imo Sonic Gen is a far better looking game than any of the Yakuza games and one of the better game engiens to come from SEGA Japan .
Capcom MT Framework engine is much more impressive though and so is frostbite
Sonic Boom and Lost World didn't sell millions, but they will long term. Sonic and the Secret Rings took forever to sell, but it damn near broke 3 mill didn't it? People don't buy Sonic full price, and haven't since the Dreamcast. He's a mascot without a system.
That's not going to happen with the Wii U as we all know its a platform that is already a nothing system . Sonic Lost World should have been multi platform from the get go . I like the Sonic Team they have some nice tech and did have some good idea's . Just totally let down by the higer ups who's got them working on Mobile games as well as limiting them to just Nintendo development which was a total cock up in anyone book.
With luck the Team will be allowed to make a Next Gen multi platform Sonic with some really nice tech
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At the beginning of the gen I don't think Wii u development would have looked as unattractive. Sonic Adventure 2 sold great on the GameCube was likely what was going through their heads. I doubt Sega will do any more Wii U exclusives.
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At the beginning of the gen I don't think Wii u development would have looked as unattractive. Sonic Adventure 2 sold great on the GameCube was likely what was going through their heads. I doubt Sega will do any more Wii U exclusives.
It was very clear early in that the Wii U was facing dismal sales and 3rd parties were having a hard time with the unit. With luck Sammy will see sense and also get PSO II on the consoles too
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Right, but the exclusivity deal was likely signed fairly early on; possibly before the Wii U was out.
I imagine Sega also reasoned that dismal early sales don't always mean dismal sales will be forever. The PS3 launched to abysmal initial sales as well (admittedly not this bad). I doubt Sega would have been better off just canceling.
PSO2 needs to be on consoles, definitely.