Do you still like Sega? - Redux (Post E3 2013 Edition)

[Randroid]

Content created by SOJ has been and continues to be exactly what I like from gaming. I still enjoy and appreciate their audio/visual art style above all other gaming companies.

Heck, if they were to just slap subtitles on all of their Japanese games and bring them over I'd be one happy and busy gamer.

Sega's western output is not always to my taste. I ignored all of their movie licensed games. It's easy to give up and say Sega west is out of touch, but just when you count them out, they knock it out of the park with games like Sonic & Sega All Star Racing Transformed. So I wouldn't count them out just yet.

I can still say objectively that Sega's games are the best per genre, so objectively as a gamer I can say that I still like Sega.

Personally, on an emotional level, I love Sega. They are a big part of my identity and they haven't completely lost theirs. They remain the self-aware, cool, off the wall, anything goes gaming company that I grew up with, even  if it's not completely represented here in the west. 

[Nin-Jy]

Hi,
First time I post here but the thread is interesting and have pretty much the same thought as OP.

I really believed that SEGA would annonce some western release for Yakuza 5, etc and some nextgen games at E3. I think I'm not the only one who is disapointed. Ok there is Project Diva F, it's cool, but they know it will sell well in western since they already released 2 iPhone games here.


Today, SEGA feels boring since no one know what the f* western branch is doing since Mike Hayes is gone.
I mine, every one know, it's now leaded by commercial people who don't know anything in video games and just try to make the enterprise survived by releasing games targeted for mass western public.
In another side we can't blame them, when you see some great games like Binary Domain sold nothing here, because large public didn't even heard about it. No marketing, or really bad marketing. Definitly one of the biggest problem of Sega since 10+ years. But it cost many money.
Just look at marketing budgets of some BD concurrents: Mass Effect, Gears of War, and probably other... it's absolutly delirious, but they made money.
Sega don't have the balls to put more money in it, and it's a shame imo.

For now Western SEGA is kind of dead except Creative Assembly, just resume your japanese.

[Nameless 24]

Regarding the question itself (which I posted in your last thread), I am still very much a SEGA fan.

But...this year (so far) is disappointing, I didn't expect SEGA to reveal much at E3 (although Miku is a nice surprise regardless whether I am a fan or not). Ironically speaking, Nintendo shown pretty much what SEGA had in store in regards to console games, which to me is a smart move given how it would otherwise cost SEGA more money to promote it themselves (if we ignore their huge booth).

There are some positives though worth being excited about from this year:

• Bayonetta 2 actually exists! I am not the biggest fan myself, but making a sequel to a newish IP is something I can take out of positively regardless of being on the Wii U.
• Sonic Lost Worlds seems to be following the Nintendo mould of what "works" and what doesn't. It's still Sonic and SEGA to be, but with polish that Nintendo is known for. They just need to keep this up really
• Miku's finally being given a western release. It took them long enough, but I blame the original creators for the delay rather than SEGA here.
• SEGA's turning a profit, which is pretty rare. They should be able to meet targets again this year.

I do however, have problems with SEGA (HQ especially) and their catering to their domestic fans (who, ironically don't make them the most net profit out of the three regions), their US and EU sales are very strong, even if we cater the PC games into the number, I would say that game sales on consoles is healthy.

Having fewer titles on consoles is hard as a fan, but I understand why it had to be done. My Nintendo playing output has been irregularly high this year, whereas Sony and SEGA haven't got much going on (Sony's is understandable, but I don't like the look of The Last of Us despite loving the Uncharted series), Nintendo's hit their stride this year on the 3DS, and have a few good games on the Wii U too, but I find it extremely odd that these days Nintendo is making probably 10 times the amount of games over the current SEGA.

Back in the SNES/MD days is was quite the opposite, it's funny how times change.

I hope SEGA has a latter 2013 slew of titles but I doubt it, I am happy to be excited for Sonic once more and wait for Bayonetta 2's release in 2014.

[MadeManG74]

^But Bayonetta 2 has pretty much zero to do with Sega. If Sega had involvement in it, then I would be changing my tune, but from what I understand they really have almost no involvement in the title, it's neither developed nor published by them.

Someone who follows this stuff closer than I might correct me.

I'll be interested in seeing how their ownership of Relic pans out now, if they strive under Sega or not. I'm looking forward to CoH2, but like I said I was looking forward to it when THQ was publishing.

[Aki-at]

This is a hard question answer, simply because last year was my favourite in terms of SEGA's third party output. Three of their titles were my top three favourite games last year (3. Binary Domain, 2. Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, 1. Yakuza 5) so to stop calling myself a SEGA fan after the last game I played from them in just over 6 months being my favourite game of the generation is probably too soon to say I have lost interest in them.

In terms of their current direction and output however I am concerned. I am fine with them focusing on Total War and Company of Heroes (They have made titles that seemed vastly different from their traditional image, arcade gaming) but here is the major issue for me. IF SEGA did not purchase Relic, the only meaningful software they would have at E3 would be Sonic: Lost World and Rome II, that is far too little for their Western branch to survive on. There is also SEGA West's disdain over SEGA Japan's products, you just have to see how Project Diva was entirely ignored by them at E3 despite a demo being ready AND releasing in August (For the record I am not a fan of Miku) furthermore they are willing to continually support Spiral Knights yet we have no idea when Phantasy Star Online 2 is releasing. Why this dislike for their Japanese titles, especially one that has a proven Western fanbase?

SEGA Japan is developing core titles simply only for Japan when they should focus on a worldwide basis, but when they do, SEGA West either has no interest or supports the title poorly, the whole management needs a shakeup. So as of now, I am not interested in any SEGA products, but I am not going to get too upset. I'll follow Arsenal a bit, I'll watch the 50th Anniversary Doctor Who episodes, I'll play The Last of Us, I might try Soul Sacrifice and when/if SEGA make a decent game again, I will try it out. I have seen them gone through bad periods and I am sure I will see more, but the good times always come before long.

Finally, I do not believe you can say "Well I would still be playing Total War if EA or Activision had purchased them!" no way at all. Both respective publishers are closing down studios that fail to do 2 million+ sales in its first month, what makes you think they would allow The Creative Assembly that sort of slack? Pandemic Studios, Bizarre, Visceral Montreal and many more would testify against that. Relic likewise, only two companies bid for them (SEGA and KochMedia) short term they would still be alive, but I am not too sure about their long term future under the latter. Relic though is the more successful so they would certainly survive under the Activision/EA regime, but most publishers these days have over inflated budgets and targets (Square Enix deemed Tomb Raiders 3 million+ sales underwhelming!) that its rare to find one with moderate targets like SEGA.

Back in the SNES/MD days is was quite the opposite, it's funny how times change.

I do not think it has changed to drastically but now not only do SEGA have multiple titles left in Japan (4 entries in the Ryu Ga Gotoku series alone!) but now their arcade output is no longer ported to consoles. So whilst it seems they are producing less, there are multiple factors that contribute to it, rather than them actually making less games.

[MadeManG74]

^I really should give BD another shot. From what I played of it, I was really underwhelmed but apparently I only got about as far as the tutorial or something. I'm also buying Yakoozer Five.

Final Showdown is probably my favourite game this generation and I would think it's my most played Xbox 360 game.

I also know what you mean about not being upset. It doesn't really bother me that there are less Sega games I want to play, but it's almost as if Sega is just another publisher out there right now, one that I don't feel any particular affinity towards or have expectations of. In fact, I often expect (and am correct) that any announcement from Sega is hugely underwhelming.

It's a fair point about Relic and CA though, is Sega just that perfect size that they can cater towards developers like them? Fingers crossed they make it work, but I do wonder if things would just be the same under another publisher.

[tarpmortar]

Well I figured I should log in for this thread, it's been a while:

SEGA is kicking a shit-ton of ass right now, they have the best line up they've had in fucking years (particularly in terms of what their critical reception will be and also sales). I'm a PC exclusive gamer these days, I fucking loved Company of Heroes under THQ and I will continue to love Relic's games under SEGA. THQ was actually my favorite publisher this past generation due to great games like Darksiders, Darksiders II, Space Marine, Dawn of War II, de Blob, de Blob II, Company of Heroes, Red Faction Guerrilla, Red Faction Armageddon and Saints Row the Third. Tons of great games came out of that company and they didn't deserve their death, they were one of the last triple A pubs taking risks.

With that said I'm also a huge SEGA fan, I love how their PC division has developed over the years and I appreciate how they treat their PC fanbase even if there are blatantly obvious errors made.

So do I like SEGA today? YES! SEGA West is killing it, SEGA of Japan? Not so much. I love the games SoJ used to make and occasionally still does but they just don't seem to get it most of the time. SEGA West couldn't be expected to make a success out of games like Valkyria Chronicles II on PSP (which was long dead in the west upon release), so SoJ effectively killed that franchise. They really should have moved it to 3DS with VC 3, where the western branch might have had a chance of pushing some units near launch. Hatsune Miku? I think it's guaranteed to disappoint and even if it doesn't I have no interest in it, I'm not interested in games featuring lolis.

SEGA of Japan MUST quit pandering to an Otaku base in Japan if they wish for their games to have any chance outside their home territory; the state of Shining Force is an utter joke right now as a chief example. They also must learn to streamline their games, there's jank in Binary Domain/Yakuza that needs to be removed/fixed, as much as I like those games.

As for SEGA on PC? Their Japanese branch really needs to get with the fucking program, why isn't Virtua Fighter 5 on PC when the arcade version runs on OFF the shelf PC components and a Linux distro? There's clearly a market for fighters on PC, we received 2 versions of SF4, we're getting Mortal Kombat 9 & King of Fighters 13, where's a Virtua Fighter? SEGA of Japan needs to find a new audience for VF, PC is their chance, there's a market for fighting games but no significant 3D fighter is in the space yet; it's a chance for SEGA to grab a monopoly and introduce VF to a new audience.

Then there's SEGA West forgetting pre-2005 PC output, there are already PC ports of games that would be guaranteed to do well on Steam, for example Typing of the Dead? Already has a 100% functional PC port, I OWN IT! Put it on Steam for fucks' sake.

I love SEGA, I love Total War, I love CoH, I love SoJ but they need to get their shit together. Also the implication that Creative Assembly/Relic would be just the same at EA/ActiBlizz? Bullshit, NeoGAF as a whole breathed a sigh of relief when it was announced SEGA took Relic from THQ's bankruptcy. There was no better home for Relic, not even THQ given their DLC strategies in their desperate, final, days.

Also Castle of Illusion looks like SEGA's best platformer in years, you guys should be excited for it.

[ROJM]

Well I figured I should log in for this thread, it's been a while:

SEGA is kicking a shit-ton of ass right now, they have the best line up they've had in fucking years (particularly in terms of what their critical reception will be and also sales). I'm a PC exclusive gamer these days, I fucking loved Company of Heroes under THQ and I will continue to love Relic's games under SEGA. THQ was actually my favorite publisher this past generation due to great games like Darksiders, Darksiders II, Space Marine, Dawn of War II, de Blob, de Blob II, Company of Heroes, Red Faction Guerrilla, Red Faction Armageddon and Saints Row the Third. Tons of great games came out of that company and they didn't deserve their death, they were one of the last triple A pubs taking risks.

With that said I'm also a huge SEGA fan, I love how their PC division has developed over the years and I appreciate how they treat their PC fanbase even if there are blatantly obvious errors made.

So do I like SEGA today? YES! SEGA West is killing it, SEGA of Japan? Not so much. I love the games SoJ used to make and occasionally still does but they just don't seem to get it most of the time. SEGA West couldn't be expected to make a success out of games like Valkyria Chronicles II on PSP (which was long dead in the west upon release), so SoJ effectively killed that franchise. They really should have moved it to 3DS with VC 3, where the western branch might have had a chance of pushing some units near launch. Hatsune Miku? I think it's guaranteed to disappoint and even if it doesn't I have no interest in it, I'm not interested in games featuring lolis.

SEGA of Japan MUST quit pandering to an Otaku base in Japan if they wish for their games to have any chance outside their home territory; the state of Shining Force is an utter joke right now as a chief example. They also must learn to streamline their games, there's jank in Binary Domain/Yakuza that needs to be removed/fixed, as much as I like those games.

As for SEGA on PC? Their Japanese branch really needs to get with the fucking program, why isn't Virtua Fighter 5 on PC when the arcade version runs on OFF the shelf PC components and a Linux distro? There's clearly a market for fighters on PC, we received 2 versions of SF4, we're getting Mortal Kombat 9 & King of Fighters 13, where's a Virtua Fighter? SEGA of Japan needs to find a new audience for VF, PC is their chance, there's a market for fighting games but no significant 3D fighter is in the space yet; it's a chance for SEGA to grab a monopoly and introduce VF to a new audience.

Then there's SEGA West forgetting pre-2005 PC output, there are already PC ports of games that would be guaranteed to do well on Steam, for example Typing of the Dead? Already has a 100% functional PC port, I OWN IT! Put it on Steam for fucks' sake.

I love SEGA, I love Total War, I love CoH, I love SoJ but they need to get their shit together. Also the implication that Creative Assembly/Relic would be just the same at EA/ActiBlizz? Bullshit, NeoGAF as a whole breathed a sigh of relief when it was announced SEGA took Relic from THQ's bankruptcy. There was no better home for Relic, not even THQ given their DLC strategies in their desperate, final, days.

Also Castle of Illusion looks like SEGA's best platformer in years, you guys should be excited for it.

I agree with most of what you said, but unfortunately its these "otaku" that have really kept Sega out of the fire, so to speak. Its kinda boring seeing Sega, time and again going back to the well and redoing old games from the megadrive/Genesis era. CASTLE OF ILLUSION is a pleasant suprise(but not sdomething i'm excited about) and what happened with SONIC CD shows what can work when you pay care and attention to it. But why not go beyond that? How many people would snap up the PHANTASY STAR remakes that was released on the PS2,under their budget Sega Ages line? All they have to do is find/hire the best fan translator to translate it properly and under cost and then release it under an online service.
Why keep rereleasing ECCO under various formats and pass by a new version that the original creators were willing to make. 

I also think the question is to the fans as well as game consumers is what type of games do we want Sega to make? Do we want Sega to create the type of games that everyone else is doing with the high value production values that they can muster? Or do we want the more original risque innovative titles that have always defined the company? Because the truth is when two titles they made that had all the qualities of what Sega was about, they both flopped. They were called VALKYRIA CHRONICLES and BINARY DOMAIN. Single handily the best Sega games that came out for this generation. And i'm saying that on record since were in the last year(s) of the seventh generation of game systems.

We can blame how Sega is doing things but the reality is that the Otaku who are buying up SHINING whatever its called and all the Sega social gaming stuff are buying them in significant quantities. The people who are lapping up TOTAL WAR and FOOTBALL MANAGER are buying it up in significant numbers. The Sonic,(millions and millions, as The Rock would say) are buying that series in great numbers. The other Sega titles that come out are in between of that and many are not making an impact. Can we blame Sega for chasing the buck and going where the money is? No. Can we blame them for not using their assets properly? Yes. But i do think we Sega fans who want Sega games need to say what we want more effectivly instead of it being hijacked by the usual we want another SHENMUE crowd.

[ROJM]

on a slightly related note-

I recently finished revamping the sega studios wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_software_development_studios

I think it gives good prespective how Sega in-house development shrank and grew over the years.

Good job but some of the info is wrong. Climax did the SHINING FORCE remake for the GBA and also got one of their games published by Sega for the PSP. They also helped produce some MUSHI KING LCD games. So basically they are still collaborating with sega from time to time.

Next entertainment did the BAYONETTA port for PS3.


A core team from the Sega Racing Studio stayed with Sega and became the company's technical wizards as it were by helping other Sega studios to finish with the codes before deadlines and other such things. This included helping Platinum Games squeeze the data of their big games BAYONETTA and VANQUISH.   Part of that team formed what is now Hardlight Studios.

And if were going to mention Platinum Games, you might as well mention Treasure games as well...

[Barry the Nomad]

I just want to say that I've missed TaroYamada and your avatar. Welcome back! Hope you stay.

[Trippled]

Good job but some of the info is wrong. Climax did the SHINING FORCE remake for the GBA and also got one of their games published by Sega for the PSP. They also helped produce some MUSHI KING LCD games. So basically they are still collaborating with sega from time to time.

Next entertainment did the BAYONETTA port for PS3.


A core team from the Sega Racing Studio stayed with Sega and became the company's technical wizards as it were by helping other Sega studios to finish with the codes before deadlines and other such things. This included helping Platinum Games squeeze the data of their big games BAYONETTA and VANQUISH.   Part of that team formed what is now Hardlight Studios.

And if were going to mention Platinum Games, you might as well mention Treasure games as well...

I didn't do the affliated studios segement.

[ROJM]

I didn't do the affliated studios segement.

Thought you updated the whole page.

[Trippled]

Thought you updated the whole page.

nah only the internal studios stuff

[MadeManG74]

Also the implication that Creative Assembly/Relic would be just the same at EA/ActiBlizz? Bullshit, NeoGAF as a whole breathed a sigh of relief when it was announced SEGA took Relic from THQ's bankruptcy. There was no better home for Relic, not even THQ given their DLC strategies in their desperate, final, days.

On the note of DLC, have you seen the BS DLC that was implemented for Shogun and now Rome? Pre-order exclusive factions? This never happened when Activision was publishing Total War. Granted, it's a sign of the times as well, but still...

[tarpmortar]

On the note of DLC, have you seen the BS DLC that was implemented for Shogun and now Rome? Pre-order exclusive factions? This never happened when Activision was publishing Total War. Granted, it's a sign of the times as well, but still...

Unfortunately, yes, I'm aware of the inexcusable DRM inside Shogun/Rome and CoH2. Which is why I've vowed to wait until significant price drops to purchase the DLC/games. Factions being exclusive in Rome II is a new low though, certainly worse than the blood effects DRM in Shogun II.

CoH 2's exclusive commander trees are also inexcusable for a game with such a competitive aspect. I think however, that it'd be worse under THQ as during their final days they went insane with DLC in games like Saints Row the Third and Darksiders II. With EA it'd be fucking awful because the games would likely require that bullshit Origin client (where as SEGA & THQ supported Steamworks) and Activision would have cut Creative Assembly out long ago for not being big enough. ActiBlizz isn't interested in PC exclusives really, they want big multi-platform titles. Even if they did take over Relic, they'd likely force them multi-platform and then shut them down when the sales didn't crack 3 mln.

SEGA's PC DLC as of late is definitely bullshit but I reward those shit business practices with less funds than I would otherwise.