Author Topic: Jesus  (Read 4924 times)

Offline crackdude

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Jesus
« on: April 12, 2010, 06:57:08 pm »
Quote from: "George"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "George"
For the record, Jesus gave people terrible advice.
Yeah, cause having a simple life, spreading love and having humility are all terrible things to do  :roll:
Because quiting your job, giving away your stuff is logical advice. Did I even mention no to self defense? Very good.
No to self defense is figurative, not literal.
And quitting your job and giving away your stuff wasn't advice. Jesus walked a lot with the purpose of teaching the people about God. Those who wanted to be most close to him and follow him around had no way of keeping a job and carrying all their stuff around for 3 full years..
In fact, many of Jesus' advice pushed the idea of hard work and providing stuff for your family.

The fact that many religions take liberties in their interpretations of the Bible doesn't change what Jesus actually said. All good stuff me thinks..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Re: Jesus
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 07:58:07 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
No to self defense is figurative, not literal.
Actually, it was more or less was literal, because the Roman emperor Constantine wanted it to be that way. That's why Jesus says to never fight back or resist the powers that be.

It's also the reason why Jesus says, "Always pay your taxes to Rome!" The whole religion is founded on indoctrination by an empire that crumbled over 1500 years ago. A lot of the teachings are irrelevant to the modern world. :P
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 08:06:53 pm by fluffymoochicken »

Offline George

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 08:06:21 pm »
Sounds like you are taking his word and applying your own meaning. This is good, since he gave really horrible advice, someone has to turn it around and make logical sense of it.

Jesus about family?

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." - Matthew 10:21

Talking about his peaceful nature, he curses a whole city to hell for not "repenting".

"Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. " - Matthew 11:20-11:22

There is also a passage where Jesus approves of beating slaves, meaning he is OK with slavery. I'm not OK with that. Sorry that I'm not as peaceful and loving as Jesus.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12:47

Shocked that a person like you would even approve of men leaving their children and wife behind to follow other  men and go into some desert. You do know that women could not really work back in those days? Not to mention give away all his stuff their family could have used.

Great teachings.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 08:24:47 pm »
I've no idea what’s going on here but I can tell you flat out that while there is enough evidence that a man named Jesus that many people thought to be the son of god existed.

What he 'said' according to the bible is probably all a load of rubbish, trace the bible far back enough and you'll find that the church basically picked and choose the gospels that best suited what they wanted their followers to believe. There was many more gospels including one written by 'Mary' and all of them paint rather different pictures of events. There were plenty that didn't make the final cut.

To be honest I would take any quotes in the bible as a pinch of salt, chances are over time people have added too it and edited and twisted it in ways that best suits them. They were written after Jesus died anyway...

If you want to believe in Jesus, god etc or any religion for that matter then go for it but I really don't suggest taking anything written in holy books as 'matter of fact'.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Re: Jesus
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 09:33:16 pm »
Quote from: "George"
There is also a passage where Jesus approves of beating slaves, meaning he is OK with slavery. I'm not OK with that. Sorry that I'm not as peaceful and loving as Jesus.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12:47
Lol, the Biblical passages on slavery were used by anti-abolitionists in the United States to try and sway votes in favor of keeping slavery.

Again, it shows how the Bible is not relevant to the modern world.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline George

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 02:43:34 am »
Quote from: "Sharky"
I've no idea what’s going on here but I can tell you flat out that while there is enough evidence that a man named Jesus that many people thought to be the son of god existed.

What he 'said' according to the bible is probably all a load of rubbish, trace the bible far back enough and you'll find that the church basically picked and choose the gospels that best suited what they wanted their followers to believe. There was many more gospels including one written by 'Mary' and all of them paint rather different pictures of events. There were plenty that didn't make the final cut.

To be honest I would take any quotes in the bible as a pinch of salt, chances are over time people have added too it and edited and twisted it in ways that best suits them. They were written after Jesus died anyway...

If you want to believe in Jesus, god etc or any religion for that matter then go for it but I really don't suggest taking anything written in holy books as 'matter of fact'.
There is also evidence that most of the bible is stories from older myths, even the story of Jesus himself. There is the Persian myth of Mithra that a lot of people point to, is a lot like Jesus himself. You can read that here.

There are also a lot of dates and celebrations that Christianity took from Pagan culture. It is obviously the reason this is done is because converting followers to your 'rules' and 'religion' is easier if you make it easily adaptable. Pagans could still throw your parties on the day they used to, just had to kneel before a cross.

In the end of the day, Christianity was established to control. Look at the Catholic church, molesting children; then the Vatican protects the molesters? Living in big palaces? What happen to giving away belongings to follow Christ? Does this apply to only regular people?

Religion obviously makes a ton of money and controls people. That is why the Vatican used to rule everything back in the day, because people believed they were sent by God.

A lot of people think that most of what is in the bible is 'true', but not 100% accurate. The reason why they believe most is true is because there are multiple sources that 'document' the last days of Jesus Christ and they all match up. Of course, they could all be in on it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline max_cady

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 04:31:29 am »
-Sigh-

It's always fun to see people attacking a religion that they know full well that will not fight back. No matter how many horrible things can be said about them.

Take Nero for example... Since people still think they feel so original for blaming Christians on the whole problems of the world.

That being said, I think the church is perhaps the most efficiently run provider of services and it's amazing considering it's all supported by donations. In the roman catholic church, you only make a donation if you want to. You are not obligated(unlike other fraudulent religions aka enviromentalism) to give anything and they won't shut you down for showing up in church to hear a sermon.

And personally, I don't think Christianity controls people, it helps steer in the right direction, the Bible itself is shock full of stories that can apply to real life, because morality is the same, no matter what century you're in,heck, read Aesop's Fables.

In short, Christ asks us to better people, you want control you should see how enviromentalism works, because that has social marxism written all over it.


Update: Just to be clear, I don't wanna pick a fight, because I know that the easiest way to get into a fight with someone is to talk politics and/or religion.
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 04:52:40 am »
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was entirely based on looking for a cup Jesus drank out of. If it does not mean he is important that Dr Jones had a whole movie about that, then I do not know what is! [/joke in poor taste]

Seriously though, I think Ryan said it best. Of course not everything written in whichever book of choice is the same as it was hundreds of years ago, how would we even be able to find out when there could have been cover-ups a thousand years ago that only ten people knew of at the time?

That does not make all religions a waste of time or anything like that, of course not! Believing in anything, whether it be an omnipresence, your friends, family, or even just yourself will bring you happiness. Loving others around you will bring them happiness, and this is what I think the goal of any religion is in the end. Really, isn't that all that matters?
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 06:58:25 am »
Honestly, nobody is going to get 'Converted' by these arguments. People that don't like Religion/Christianity for whatever reasons aren't going to change their minds and vica-versa.

I had a bunch of counter-points to George's arguments in particular, but I've deleted what I had, because I realised it would be a pointless waste of my time and George's. I've heard so many arguments for and against already (and so has everyone here probably) and seen people going back and forth like this before. It just ends up going in a big circle and usually ends with the thread locked/deleted.

Frankly I think this thread shouldn't have even been made and the argument should have been dropped in the Sonic 4 thread.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 08:30:18 am »
I always see people reading the Bible on the train, and I think to myself "They could be watching reruns of The Next Generation or be playing Monkey Island Special Edition..."
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Offline Emmett The Crab

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 09:38:19 am »
For the most part, I agree with George.  The story of the flood was borrowed from the Sumerians by the Hebrews.  It is much older than the Bible.  It is part of the story of the Epic of Gilgamesh.  When I was an English teacher, I got in trouble for teaching The Epic of Gilgamesh as a supplement to our mythology unit.  

Max Cady:  Your argument got weird when you kept mentioning environmentalism, which is a political movement not a religion that, as far as I know, has not forced anyone to pay money.  I don't know anything about politics in Portugal, but from where I'm sitting that's a really strange comparison.  I think The Jesus of the Bible would want us to take care of the Earth, and wanted us to take care of the poor (socialism).
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Offline max_cady

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 11:10:52 am »
You'd be surprised how much enviromentalism borrows heavily from the judeo-christian ideology.

From it's romantic view of nature which is similar to the garden of even but without humans, their worship of Earth as a deity, the occasional reference to Al Gore as an Oracle and even carbon credits and proposed CO2 taxes which is quite similar to how the church operated with something called a sin tax.

The comparison between the two, however, ends when enviromentalism uses thuggish tactics towards skeptics(granted that there was the inquisition, but this is the 21st century, not the dak ages), guilts people and scares the hell out of them with proficies of forthcoming doom(there is armaggedon, but once again, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages).

The church is not socialist, it is a private entity that provides charitable services, they operate with a tax exemption clause that is applied to all religions.

"Helping the poor" is generally Socialism's de facto excuse to do anything but...

But I'm getting off-topic...

One staggering hipocrisy that I would lke to point out is how some in Portugal like to complain about religion, but some reason, are not against religious holidays, which is curious considering that about 80% of all portuguese holidays are religious ones.
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 11:41:48 am »
You know the forum is having a really terribly slow and painfully dry news day when we resort to discussing religion.

Also lol everyone knows his name was really Isa.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline crackdude

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 12:03:27 pm »
This turned into a cool debate lol
Hate to see some quotes taken out of context.
For example, the reason why Jesus didn't try to resist the authorities was because there ware prophecies to fulfill. It was PLANNED that Jesus would die that way.

Another example of things taken out of context was the quotation of texts that actually were prophecies of bad days to come (modern age really) and not advice.

I know I'm not contributing a whole lot to the conversation, but I just feel like letting out my opinion :)

The Bible is a useful guide. But reading it cover-to-cover won't teach you a lot much and you won't understand. You really need some study and companion books or something.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Jesus
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 12:04:20 pm »
Professor Henry Jones: But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an "I".
Indiana Jones: J-...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »