Author Topic: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread  (Read 278270 times)

Offline Ben

  • *
  • Posts: 1665
  • Total Meseta: 1
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2014, 11:45:57 pm »
Quote
Wrong Ben. Next worked on BAYONETTA, the group's work on that is minimal because it was AFTER the fact IE when the game was being localised. So yes the game was outsourced....


Regardless of who worked on Bayonetta, Sega was put in charge of the PS3 port, and the final product was up to their standards enough to ship. So yes. It's their responsibility. Nobody else's. It's Sega's job as publishers to deliver a quality game. If they choose to outsource it, then it's their job to put a developer on the task who is capable of delivering a quality game.

If the developer they hire is not doing so, then it's the publisher's job to step in and fix it. That's their responsibility as publisher.

You act like a publisher has nothing to do with the finished product. The publishers are the ones who approve it. They're the ones who release it, and they're the ones who convince you to buy it.

If you're playing a game, it's because the publishers decided that it was okay to sell to you.

Quote
And Sega has always had a history of being hands off in outsourced projects. its a matter of faith. I don't blame Sega for ACM or BAYONETTA PS3 version and really neither should you since its obvious that Gearbox was swindling Sega in that incident. 

If Sega isn't keeping a close enough eye on the production of the games they publish...(and I believe it) then yeah dude, that's something that has to be corrected because that's their job as a publisher.

A responsible publisher would have stepped in and fixed Colonial Marines years ago. If Sega was "swindled" it's because they allowed themselves to be. Hell they could have even fired Gearbox years ago if they wanted to and replaced them....they are the ones in control.

I know it sounds harsh, and it's not my intention to be harsh on Sega, but yes, as a publisher they are responsible for the final product. They sold you a bad game. (If you purchased it.) They knowingly released a bad game.

You can't excuse the publisher because of a bad development process on the part of the developers. As publisher, it's Sega's job to make sure the game being developed is of high quality, and it's their job to fix the issues if it isn't.

Colonial Marines is an example of a lot going wrong from many different angles, this is true. And it's not all Sega's fault. But again, you can't say that just because it was developed outside of Sega, that Sega bears no responsibility. Sega bears the brunt of the responsibility. They are the ones who put their name on the game and sold it to you. They're the ones who delivered it to market, and who did not notice (or didn't care to fix) its issues during development. And it's their job to do so.

LA Noire is another game in recent memory that was developed from an outside company (Team Bondi) and ran into huge production issues, delays, and went over-budget. What did Rockstar do as publishers? They stepped in, put their own people on it, and got the game finished. That's what you're supposed to do. Team Bondi had no idea what they were doing, their studio was run like a sweatshop, their game was ridiculously behind schedule and over budget, and they needed their publisher to step in and set them right.

If Rockstar was in charge of Colonial Marines, I can assure you that they would not have allowed Gearbox to "swindle" them. A good publisher is well aware of what's going on with their game all throughout its development. They're the ones who sell you the game, and ultimately, they're the ones responsible for its quality.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 01:57:45 am by Ben »

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #91 on: July 15, 2014, 03:28:22 am »


Quote
Regardless of who worked on Bayonetta, Sega was put in charge



Sorry but that's like saying you hired a builder...everything looks ok when the building is finished until you moved in and find out that the builder fucked things up. Sega's fault was in hiring them but it was NOT their fault in the way the development went. You can keep on this nonsense and blame sega for things that wasn't Their fault in the first place but the bottom line is it wasn't. The fault lies with Next and with Gearbox..no one else.

And there's no regardless about it. You tried to prove me wrong about the STG group and you couldn't.DEAL WITH IT and stop backtracking to save face. The article doesn't even have the guy mentioning it himself. So until you can get THAT simple little element right and get it from the horses mouth, there is no point carrying on this convo in your attempt to take me down. Because its clear you have little knowledge on what you are talking about especially when it comes to Sega and how they handle development. ::)

Sad thing is its not like their practices in their internal /external development culture is a big secret either. Geez and you are acting shocked and appalled..gimme a break and go back to playing sonic or some baby game that you think emphasizes Sega being your wishy washy version of "Nintendo with attitude", before you dare challenge me again...



« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:32:57 am by ROJM »

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #92 on: July 15, 2014, 03:41:12 am »
He means if it was SEGA and only SEGA. Obviously SEGA could have said no, but that doesn't make what Radrappy is saying any less true: if it was all up to SEGA, and ONLY SEGA, this game would never have been made.

But the game had already started development under Sega so again its not entirely true. RDY is saying they had no intention AT ALL to continue the series. I'm saying that's not the case. They did. Games don't fall off trees you know..they cost money to make...they all have a budget and they all must adhere to it because it ultimately affects the bottom line. The final report to the shareholders and business world.  Were not living in the era where Sega can dive into their treasure chest and continue funding projects..were living in an era where the treasure chest is firmly shut and is hardly dived into. That's the reason why Sega does have a lot of money but also the reason why they wont take the risks and wont finish things they have started.

Offline RegalSin

  • Banned
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2014, 12:27:00 pm »
Sega is just the publisher with this game. The same with the original "Wonder Boy". Holding developers hostage to keep their image looking ok.

Offline jonboy101

  • *
  • Posts: 464
  • Total Meseta: 9
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2014, 12:55:43 pm »
Sega is just the publisher with this game. The same with the original "Wonder Boy". Holding developers hostage to keep their image looking ok.

That's a bit harsh. I was of the impression Platinum wanted to maintain the sweetheart deal they had; Sega bankrolls and Platinum gets to make what they want. Sega was open to continue making games, but not to continue on those terms, as only one of Platinum's games was successful.

Sega generally has had a pretty solid record with 2nd parties haven't they? Red and Treasure both seem to get along well with Sega. The only companies I can think of on poor terms are Camelot and that ToeJam and Earl guy.

If anything, Sega was too generous to Platinum, as they were with GearBox.

Offline Nirmugen

  • *
  • Posts: 388
  • Total Meseta: 11
  • Sneaking around in the city with blue,blue skies
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2014, 05:12:24 pm »
I think the principal problem is why CM become a buggy mess.


I remember that Gearbox also developed Bordelands 2 at the same time and that game doesn't have all this problems. Why? Gearbox dedicated more time to this game? they promise to Sega to finished the game and give the conffidence to make the pre-order deals with the retailers?


We will never know but we can use a past evidence...Duke Nukem Forever. That game also was developed in the same time as Bordelands, see the similar situation?

Remember that until the last month a game can be finished. Imagine a situation where Sega was waiting for the final game and in the last time Gearbox says that they have problems and this is the most they could work. All the deals, pre-orders was maded, so the game is going to be released inevitably.

In that case, we can say Sega has part of that problem but no the reason of the same.

Offline Ben

  • *
  • Posts: 1665
  • Total Meseta: 1
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2014, 07:34:49 pm »



Sorry but that's like saying you hired a builder...everything looks ok when the building is finished until you moved in and find out that the builder fucked things up. Sega's fault was in hiring them but it was NOT their fault in the way the development went. You can keep on this nonsense and blame sega for things that wasn't Their fault in the first place but the bottom line is it wasn't. The fault lies with Next and with Gearbox..no one else.

And there's no regardless about it. You tried to prove me wrong about the STG group and you couldn't.DEAL WITH IT and stop backtracking to save face. The article doesn't even have the guy mentioning it himself. So until you can get THAT simple little element right and get it from the horses mouth, there is no point carrying on this convo in your attempt to take me down. Because its clear you have little knowledge on what you are talking about especially when it comes to Sega and how they handle development. ::)

Sad thing is its not like their practices in their internal /external development culture is a big secret either. Geez and you are acting shocked and appalled..gimme a break and go back to playing sonic or some baby game that you think emphasizes Sega being your wishy washy version of "Nintendo with attitude", before you dare challenge me again...

haha "dare"? =p

Dude you're so incorrect with your assessment that it's almost hard to believe. First of all,

Quote
but that's like saying you hired a builder...everything looks ok when the building is finished until you moved in and find out that the builder fucked things up. Sega's fault was in hiring them but it was NOT their fault in the way the development went. You can keep on this nonsense and blame sega for things that wasn't Their fault in the first place but the bottom line is it wasn't. The fault lies with Next and with Gearbox..no one else.

Okay, first of all, you do not "hire a builder." If you want something constructed you hire a contractor, who then hires a team of builders and sends them in to complete the project.

The contractor is the one who leads the project. They're the ones responsible and in charge. And if the builders aren't doing their jobs properly, it's the contractor's job to say "what the hell are you guys doing, get back to work!" If the building is completed poorly and falls apart, it's not the builders who get sued, it's the contractors who are held responsible, hate to tell ya man.

You don't just hire a group of builders and let them run rampant. The contractor is always there to keep an eye on things because that's what they were hired to do.

Sega are the contractors; 20th Century Fox gave them the Alien license. The builders Sega hired to do the job were Gearbox. It was Sega's job to keep an eye on the builders to make sure that the builders weren't taking their money and throwing it out the window, or making a bad product, or embezzling their funds. Again, this is the job of a publisher. Sega's negligence with Bayonetta PS3 and Aliens:Colonial Marines is just that, negligence. And yes, companies are held accountable for their negligence.

To say that Sega is not at fault for failing to keep an eye on their games through their development is insanity. And it shows total ignorance in the way game development works. Or any type of development!

If Marvel has a property like The Avengers, they don't simply hire the director and say "okay, here's $150 million GO NUTS!" They are involved, they have producers involved, they have people monitoring the day-to-day happenings on the set to make sure that the film being developed is what they want. That's how it works, man.

Quote
...gimme a break and go back to playing sonic or some baby game that you think emphasizes Sega being your wishy washy version of "Nintendo with attitude", before you dare challenge me again...

What.....are you talking about?  0.o
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:21:02 pm by Ben »

Offline TimmiT

  • *
  • Posts: 763
  • Total Meseta: 8
    • Sonic Retro
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #97 on: July 15, 2014, 10:49:58 pm »
We know enough to know that left up to Sega, Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be happening.
SEGA had to allow Nintendo to publish it, it's even possible that SEGA went to Nintendo to get them to publish/fund it. If SEGA doesn't want Bayonetta 2, we wouldn't be getting Bayonetta 2. It's as simple as that.

Offline George

  • *
  • Posts: 6263
  • Total Meseta: 668
    • http://www.segabits.com/
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2014, 11:32:53 pm »
We don't know specifics, and really tired of people assuming they know more than anyone on the topic. Truth is: Nintendo is publishing. We don't know specifics other than its exclusive to Wii U.


Personally I'm enjoying the platformers on the console and excited for the game. But if the console doesn't pick up steam with Smash Bros, Nintendo is going to lose a ton of cash. Personally I can't stand Nintendo fans so if this is their last console I might not really care.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 11:34:33 pm by George »

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2014, 04:09:06 am »
 
haha "dare"? =p

Dude you're so incorrect with your assessment that it's blah blah blah..i have no idea what i'm talking about but post things from the net without fully understanding them because i have a brain the size of a pea blah blah blah...


Quote
What.....are you talking about?  0.o
I'm talking about you. You're silly enough that you can't even understand that...Moving on...
 
That's a bit harsh. I was of the impression Platinum wanted to maintain the sweetheart deal they had; Sega bankrolls and Platinum gets to make what they want. Sega was open to continue making games, but not to continue on those terms, as only one of Platinum's games was successful.

Sega generally has had a pretty solid record with 2nd parties haven't they? Red and Treasure both seem to get along well with Sega. The only companies I can think of on poor terms are Camelot and that ToeJam and Earl guy.

If anything, Sega was too generous to Platinum, as they were with GearBox.

Yes that's right JB. And this is why i'm tired of arguing accepted facts about Sega with segafans who should know this stuff. Usually the same fans who have the WRONG idea about Sega and who think they are like any other company specifically Nintendo because they have a cute mascot also..
 Sega has always had a history of being a hands off publisher when it comes to second party development. That's why(apart from the deal)Platinum was all excited working for Sega. Everyone in the industry knows if you work for Sega in a second party capacity you have it made because its one of the few companies that practically lets you make the game you want to make with little to no interference. I don't need some smark telling me how it should be because he doesn't understand it..its established company culture. In fact its amazing it hadn't changed under Sega Sammy.
 
And we all know GBX conned Sega by showing dummy runs of the game and not the actual title. Sega didn't know the title was contracted to another party until very late in the game. All you can blame Sega for is being naive to trust a respected company like GBX at the time to make it. You can also blame them for releasing it but they really had no choice considering the situation they were in, they had to meet the margin.

Quote
We don't know specifics, and really tired of people assuming they know more than
anyone on the topic. Truth is: Nintendo is publishing. We don't know specifics
other than its exclusive to Wii U.

I know some of the specifics, i was going on about it at the time it became common knowledge. I won't pretend i know THE exact details but they are pretty close to what happened from what i was told.

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 06:38:47 am by ROJM »

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2014, 04:15:12 am »
SEGA had to allow Nintendo to publish it, it's even possible that SEGA went to Nintendo to get them to publish/fund it. If SEGA doesn't want Bayonetta 2, we wouldn't be getting Bayonetta 2. It's as simple as that.

Lets just say it was a deal that came at a time when both companies were desperate. Nintendo needed more killer AAA games. Sega needed to continue a AAA title with minimal cost to themselves..PG needed the money.So if it succeeds its all worked well for all involved than it is now...

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2014, 06:36:54 am »
Sega is just the publisher with this game. The same with the original "Wonder Boy". Holding developers hostage to keep their image looking ok.

What the F are you F'ing talking about? WONDERBOY held hostage? What the hell is Adventure Island for the PC Engine? Swiss Cheese? Get outta here. For gods sake. Why do you come here? None of your posts make any sense, nobody here understands or even cares what you are saying anymore...if they DO understand you ..they wish they had n't..none of the subjects you bring have anything to do with Sega or games in general..and you really don't bring anything to the table except an empty plate...

Goodness gracious....

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2014, 06:45:55 am »
What the F are you F'ing talking about? WONDERBOY held hostage?

Goodness gracious....

Why the swearing and insults ? And if anyone is all over the place its you . SEGA got a enough money to buy Capcom outright but not to publish Bayonetta II on the Wii U ?
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure

Offline ROJM

  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Total Meseta: 31
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2014, 06:47:36 am »
Why the swearing and insults ? And if anyone is all over the place its you . SEGA got a enough money to buy Capcom outright but not to publish Bayonetta II on the Wii U ?


What a surprise...you siding with the loon of the month...

« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 06:55:48 am by ROJM »

Offline Team Andromeda

  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total Meseta: 39
Re: Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2014, 07:24:30 am »
What a surprise...you siding with the loon of the month...



No I just don't get why you need to insult people . And all SEGA did with Bay is buy the IP rights and publish the game - they never made it all
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
One of the best 3D shooting games available
Presented for your pleasure