32X Month: What is your criteria for a "bad video game console"?

[MercenaryOne]

For a console to be considered bad to me, first off and the biggest is lack of support from the manufacturer. Whether the system has a few glitches or hiccups, or the intended life span of support for the system. Secondly is developer support. If the system only has developers with titles that I couldn't care less about, its a bad console to me. For others it might not, but for me it is.

My favorite console to this day is the Sega CD. To me it revolutionized gaming with FMV, full audio tracks, and some timeless classics. Yet many consider Sega CD a failure, or a bad console as it was bulky, lack of a huge library that NES, SNES, and Genesis had, and no updated graphical capabilities. However, I still play games on my Sega CD more often than I play my Xbox 360 or Wii.

32X Was a bad console, SoJ pushed it to SoA and said work with it, all the while not telling them they were working on the Saturn. When news of the 32X hit of its release, SoJ was releasing info on its Saturn. This pushed developers away from the 32X. You basically had 1 company playing tug-o-war with itself. SoJ didn't trust SoA, and SoA wanted to do things their way, and honestly if they operated as 2 separate companies they both probably would have succeeded in their own market. But they competed with themselves, killing both systems.

[Team Andromeda]

Yet many consider Sega CD a failure, or a bad console as it was bulky, lack of a huge library that NES, SNES, and Genesis had, and no updated graphical capabilities. However, I still play games on my Sega CD more often than I play my Xbox 360 or Wii.

Haha the Mega CD is my 2nd fav console ever . Unlike what some made out it did really bost the MD capabilities quite a lot with its ASIC chip and the 8 Channel PCM sound chip (which SEGA was using it the likes of Rad Mobile) . It was just sadly underused not least by SEGA Japan themself's.

32X Was a bad console, SoJ pushed it to SoA and said work with it, all the while not telling them they were working on the Saturn.

Utter rubbish so so so wrong .  Sega Japan was very worried about the upcoming 3DO and Jaguar and looked at all options that's very true . But it was SOA that pushed ahead and continuted with the 32X project . And sorry SEGA America knew full well of the Saturn plans - SOA were the 1st to show off the system to the world and its games in the CES show of January 1994 , they set up the SEGA away development team in 1993 (the team that produced the likes of Bug) SEGA America knew full of the Saturn plans alright  they just didn't think the high price of the Saturn or PS would sell in the short term, that the Saturn may also get delayed (when SOJ made it quite clear the Saturn was shipping in the fall of 1994)  -  big cock's  up if ever there wre one's


 

[MercenaryOne]

Utter rubbish so so so wrong .  Sega Japan was very worried about the upcoming 3DO and Jaguar and looked at all options that's very true . But it was SOA that pushed ahead and continuted with the 32X project . And sorry SEGA America knew full well of the Saturn plans - SOA were the 1st to show off the system to the world and its games in the CES show of January 1994 , they set up the SEGA away development team in 1993 (the team that produced the likes of Bug) SEGA America knew full of the Saturn plans alright  they just didn't think the high price of the Saturn or PS would sell in the short term, that the Saturn may also get delayed (when SOJ made it quite clear the Saturn was shipping in the fall of 1994)  -  big cock's  up if ever there wre one's

My info might be wrong then, I am taking in what I got from reading Console Wars, Service Games, and The Ultimate History of Video Games which portrayed this to be the case. Regardless the 32x was a waste of resources, and never should have came to fruition. The Saturn was overpriced and underpowered, Sega should have made deals with Sony and Ken Kuturagi(sp?). IMO it would have launched Sega Saturn into a better position instead of competing with Sony. It would have opened doors for Sony later on, but it would have kept Sega their share in the market and be poised for a better rep when launching the Dreamcast.

[Team Andromeda]

The info is wrong and I've had this debate with the System 16 forums and people falling for Tom Kalinske lies, much less those jokes of books

For the record SONY Japan does all the R&D and in the old PS days their computer division just occupied a tiny floor in SONY Music HQ and the PS were only able to work on one project at the time and they were locked in to a deal to make a system exclusively for NCL (Nintendo) not SEGA !! . Then when NCL publicly humiliated SONY in 1993, SONY made the choice to go-it-alone . There was never a deal or any chance of SEGA having SONY hardware at all . Those are facts. Sure SEGA was offered the N64 Chip set - but that chip set was high cost, delayed for years  and in the end didn't have much better polygons performance than the Saturn or the PS and it had poor frame rates and screen res .

And another myth that goes around is how SEGA America never knew of the Saturn and SEGA Japan plans and SEGA Japan hid them. Well lets blow that myth apart too

Here's SEGA Japan showing off the Saturn in March 1994

IMG_0002 by Mega Drive, on Flickr     

IMG_0001 

Here's SEGA America showing off the Saturn in January 1994 (before SEGA Japan 1st showed off the Saturn



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Here's SEGA Japan showing off the Saturn in the Toyko Game show in June 1994

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And Here's a Interview with the SEGA Away/Tiger Team





Still think SEGA America didn't know about the Saturn ? [/url][/url][/url][/url][/url]

[MercenaryOne]

The info is wrong and I've had this debate with the System 16 forums and people falling for Tom Kalinske lies, much less those jokes of books

For the record SONY Japan does all the R&D and in the old PS days their computer division just occupied a tiny floor in SONY Music HQ and the PS were only able to work on one project at the time and they were locked in to a deal to make a system exclusively for NCL (Nintendo) not SEGA !! . Then when NCL publicly humiliated SONY in 1993, SONY made the choice to go-it-alone . There was never a deal or any chance of SEGA having SONY hardware at all .

Team Andromeda, just wanted to throw this out there:
http://revrob.com/sci-tech/264-tom-kalinske-talks-about-his-time-overseeing-sega-as-its-ceo-in-the-90s-reveals-that-sega-passed-on-virtual-boy-technology-considered-releasing-3do

In 1994 Joe Miller, Sega of America's Senior Vice President of Research and Development, along with Olaf Olafsson, CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, worked together to produce specs for a next generation console that the two companies would release jointly. This collaboration is now well known.


Kalinske says his biggest mistake as CEO was that he "wasn't persuasive enough to get the combination of a Sony-Sega hardware platform done." Adding, "I should've been able to convince them of that, and I wasn't."

Not only quoted from the 3 books I read, but from the mouth of Kalinske himself, I am curious as to where your source is? You can call him a liar all you want, but as far as I know he is the only reliable source I have seen.

[Team Andromeda]

In 1994 Joe Miller, Sega of America's Senior Vice President of Research and Development, along with Olaf Olafsson, CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, worked together to produce specs for a next generation console that the two companies would release jointly. This collaboration is now well known

In 1994 the PSX was well advanced and well know . And sorry Olaf didn't work for SONY R&D Japan at all and only SONY . Speaking of Olaf remind me again why he left SONY ? And people seem to think only SEGA have differences with the American and Japan branches

I am curious as to where your source is?

Tokunaka-san, Kutaragi-sand and Phil harrison


Don't fally for TOM lies and spin. Anyone with any little history of late 1993 and the start of 1994 . Would know SEGA was totally caught out with the SONY PS-X announcement. So If SEGA Japan was offfered the chipset it would have known SONY was ready to enter the market and also know its spec's and what it would take to beat them . survive to say SEGA didn't and had to change the Saturn CPU from 1 SH-2 to two SH-2's.


TOM didn't think the Saturn or PS would be mass market and thought it would be the 32X. 


 

[MercenaryOne]

You are still only naming names with no actual source. Anne Hathaway said I am the best looking man in the world, Tom Brady admitted I am a better QB than him, and Jimmy Page bowed to me and my shredding awesomeness, Betty Crocker learned how to bake from me, and I almost forgot, I fought Evander Holyfield at a private gathering and won.

See how that works out? You don't believe anything I just said because I have no factual evidence backing it up. Please return when you can provide credible info, and if you do I will admit my ignorance.

EDIT: Also Olaf wanted to jump into the console business, he was CEO of the interactive entertainment division of Sony in Europe. I never claimed he worked for R&D of Japan.

[Team Andromeda]

You are still only naming names with no actual source.

EDGE Mag.

I never claimed he worked for R&D of Japan.

No he didn't and only SONY Japan green light and handled R&D at the time and back in the day SONY Japan  was locked into a deal with NCL . It's Nintendo that turned their back on the SONY chipset not SEGA. And you might know this, but Olaf left SONY becasuse of a bust up with SONY Japan, and SONY Japan refusing to cut the price of the PS in America.
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You don't believe anything I just said because I have no factual evidence backing it up.

Not you, just the rubbish that comes from TOM and the books . These books that make out SEGA America was kept in the dark over the Saturn, never mind that SEGA America were the 1st to show of the Saturn to the gamming world . Tom and books that will try and make out SEGA turned down the SONY chipset , despite the fact that it was Nintendo .


If SEGA knew full well of the PS chipset, SEGA Japan would have known full well what to do beat the chipset
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[Barry the Nomad]

Do you have magazine scans or direct quotes, TA? I know you don't like Tom, but as is all I see is your own negativity, a few names and a mention of a magazine. I have no idea if Tokunaka-san, Kutaragi-sand and Phil harrison have as much vitriol in their thoughts as you do, or what they even said.

[Team Andromeda]

Do you have magazine scans or direct quotes, TA? I know you don't like Tom

For the 32X and to put to bed the issues of SEGA America and SEGA Japan not working together only need to read the Retro Gamer and their features with Scot Bayless and Joe Miller . They all said how it was the USA call to back the 32X and SEGA Japan and SEGA America had a fantasic working relationship for Hardware(their words, not mine) and TOM loved it for the price factor 

For the bullcrap over Tom Lies and spin (Typcial know-it-all American sales man, who's never wrong) . Looking over the press coverage of the Saturn, the fact that Tom stayed with SEGA untill 1997(so much with being unhappy with the 95 lanuch) , or the fact that if SEGA knew of the PS-X spec it would have known what to do to beat it in every tech dept .  Edge mag did many features iwth Kutaragi-sand over the PS with  and in those they tell of how after Nintendo dropped the PS the Head of Sony said to go it alone and Phil even told Edge that SONY were shoiwng off the hardware in 1993 when the hardwar was  the size of a office  photocopier  and how Toshiba worked with SONY over the PS GPU (which hardly anyone talks of).


SEGA never had access to the SONY PS chipset . And imo SEGA we right to turn down N64 chipset , 3D0 M2 Chipset and 3dFX chipset , think they messed up with turning down the Lynx handheld chipset myself though and there's part of me that wishes the DC went with the American Power PC Blackbelt CPU too

[MercenaryOne]

No one ever stated that Sega had access to the PSX chipset, no one ever stated that they worked together, it was only stated that they were in talks to work together. But to throw this out there, Sony did work with Sega during the Sega CD days with their FMV lineup.

Again, you are still only throwing out names with no sources.
Here are some basic searches with multiple sources to prove my point:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=sega+almost+worked+with+sony&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=sega+almost+worked+with+sony&sc=0-7&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=D490C86D671E483A822C8D14CCE676B4

http://www.bing.com/search?q=sega+never+worked+with+sony&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR

And in case you are anti Bing

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sega+almost+worked+with+sony

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sega+never+worked+with+sony

Now, just because it is on the internet doesn't exactly mean it's true, just like just because its in multiple documentary books doesn't mean it's true. But unfortunately they are the only viable, credible sources provided.

[Barry the Nomad]

I do sense a little anti-American sentiment in regards to Tom... I interviewed him or over an hour and he was nothing but a gentleman and very nice guy. Never got the sense that he was some slimy salesman.

[Team Andromeda]

it was only stated that they were in talks to work together.

Unless the talks were with SONY Japan they would be pointless . SONY Japan still to this day does all the R&D and back in 90's did 100% all of SONY's Hardware R&D; And in those days only Nintendo were in the bidding for the PS Chipset.

Sony did work with Sega during the Sega CD days with their FMV lineup

Yeah just a few FMV games, and the odd game here and there. Nothing what you could major support. Fact is SONY used Nintendo and SEGA in the 90's while they were working on their own system.

Again, you are still only throwing out names with no sources

If I must I'll scan the EDGE and Retro gamer mag's

And in case you are anti Bing

So becasue it's on the internet that makes it's true . You post me any sort of interview with the main SONY Japan or SEGA Japan staff where they talk of SEGA not only having acesses to SONY hardware, but also turning it down. Not even the main Hardware guys at SEGA America ever talk of it .
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Go on Google all you like, you'll not find it  . Only Tom talks of it and he's the king of spin and bullshit . The man that called it so badly wrong in the 32bit and just can't admit to it

[MercenaryOne]

So becasue it's on the internet that makes it's true .

Apparently you missed this.

Now, just because it is on the internet doesn't exactly mean it's true, just like just because its in multiple documentary books doesn't mean it's true. But unfortunately they are the only viable, credible sources provided.

Also with this being spammed all over the internet you would figure someone would come out and denounce this "false" information. But it seems you are the only one. I am sorry, but if someone came out and twisted the truth on something so major in my companies history I would come forward about it.

[MercenaryOne]

Looks like we will be finding out, the documentary on Console Wars apparently has finished filming, and includes all major influences and people from the book talking about it with exception of 1 person from Nintendo. Blake J. Harris himself was hired by SoA to direct documentaries at SoJ. He witnessed and felt the same pressure and resistance that Kalinske had during his time, the film, based on the book, is going to be produce by Scott Rudin under Sony slated for release in 2016. If Sony is to develop the film adaptation, I highly doubt they would let something so major slip into the movie if it was untrue. So perhaps we can put this argument to rest then.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/06/interview_console_wars_author_blake_j_harris_discusses_film_adaptations_and_the_struggles_of_sega