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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Artwark on June 28, 2017, 07:44:36 am

Title: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Artwark on June 28, 2017, 07:44:36 am
Here's the metacritic score...


http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/valkyria-revolution


Now I knew that the game will not be in great heights but I never thought it would end up being mediocre levels at all....wonder whether Sonic Mania will end up like this as well...

Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Tad on June 28, 2017, 08:13:38 am
I suspect not as they're both entirely different in every aspect. Mania has a team behind it that has experince in what they're doing and every demo or clip shown has had a positive response. Valkyria Revolution was created with a new direction and the response to that was mixed from the word go and once out in Japan, it wasn't a hit.

To me, this seems like Sega knew it wouldn't do well and they've just sort of thrown it out there to die. It's been released with no fanfare, just after E3 and during a Steam sale. Conbine that with the reviews and we're looking at a game that won't sell well at all. I give Sega credit for trying something new, but again they've got the balance between being creative and building on a games already made foundations wrong.


Hopefully we'll see more of the Valkyria universe in a Chronicles style of gameplay, but we'll have to see.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: crackdude on June 28, 2017, 08:31:59 am
Sonic Mania isn't in any way related with this.. Why would you compare the two.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 03, 2017, 10:00:39 am
Sonic Mania isn't in any way related with this.. Why would you compare the two.

I think it's about getting hyped up for games that aren't out yet.  here's the difference though.  Sonic mania is keeping the core gameplay and it has playable demos.  It really does look worth the hype.  Whereas Valkyria Revolution ditched not only the core gameplay but also ended up being exactly what it appeared to be in the beginning, mediocre.   I hope Sega doesn't blame the fans for this either.  Fans demanded the original style and Sega met them in the middle with the action style mixed with strategy elements and it just didn't mesh well at all.  Cutscenes aren't just long, they're boring to boot.  Even among anime clones, this one feels very run of the mill with no soul to it.  Compare that to the Chronicles games and they are totally different.   Not saying a game has to be exactly the same as the others in it's own series but it has to at least have something familiar and be enjoyable.  It's like the age old question, what makes a game a game?  Think about what went into the originals and go from there, it's much more than aesthetics.  This is why Sonic Mania works.  It looks genuinely fun to play.  Valkyria Revolution looks and plays like it was unfinished.  If it were all action, there are still issues with the characters and story and the cutscenes ect.  Music is gorgeous, but the composer is a professional, and has a very good track record.  I really think Sega just should have made Valkyria Chronicles 3 instead or alongside this game and make Revolution bonus content dlc for it.  Revolution is not worth the asking price.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 03, 2017, 10:05:06 am
Also we seem to be in a weird transition era where Japanese game developers want to rebrand their core classics with different styles to modernize them and make them more appealing to a broader audience.  Cannot say I am a huge fan of this.  I want my JRPGs to stay JRPGs.  I went to JRPGs when everyone else was playing open world sandbox games and first person shooters.  It was my favorite genre growing up and still is, but it's losing it's style of gameplay over time lately.  Valkyria needs to stay Strategy oriented to keep it's fans happy.  :D Either that or make more Shining force games? 
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Team Andromeda on July 04, 2017, 03:58:08 am
I can't help but think Eurogamer its going OTT. I think the main trouble with this game is its a game the fans never really wanted. They wanted a true sequel with improved Canvas tech and made by the original team. I hope SEGA learns from this and allows the main team to make a true sequel. 
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Sieghardt on July 04, 2017, 08:52:58 am
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Valkyria Chronicles soon
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Shining Force soon
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Phantasy Star soon

Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Artwark on July 04, 2017, 10:42:46 am
To be honest..I wouldn't really mind this game happening if they atleast made an attempt to localise Valkyria Chronicles 3 but even that they decide not to do.

Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 04, 2017, 07:25:08 pm
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Valkyria Chronicles soon
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Shining Force soon
I'm sure Sega will make a new proper turn based Phantasy Star soon

If they can do it with Persona 5, they can do it with those 3 games too.  :D
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Centrale on July 04, 2017, 10:24:49 pm
The truth is, none of the subsequent Valkyria games have been as good as the first one. I don't mind them trying out different play styles in a spinoff like this one. But aesthetically none of them have come close to the beautiful art direction of the first one.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Trippled on July 05, 2017, 09:49:55 am
If they can do it with Persona 5, they can do it with those 3 games too.  :D

there was 7th dragon and Shining Force Feather, sadly never localized
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 05, 2017, 10:41:21 am
there was 7th dragon and Shining Force Feather, sadly never localized

and yet we keep getting fire emblem.  :p  c'mon, Sega!  The rest of the world still plays strategy games!  Look at Total War!
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: crackdude on July 06, 2017, 02:34:54 am
and yet we keep getting fire emblem.  :p  c'mon, Sega!  The rest of the world still plays strategy games!  Look at Total War!
Total War is from Sega.
Nobody would give a rats ass about Shining Force aside from fans.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Tad on July 06, 2017, 03:22:50 am
Sega would have to treat a lot of their old titles as new IP's at this point. I do think there is gaps in the market for them though. Just look at the space Nintendo have left with Zelda now being a giant open world RPG instead of a more traditional linear experience.

Just a couple of ideas:

Space Channel 5 = Miku dance or whatever it's called. They could even make a mobile game.
Golden Axe = A lighter toned Dark Souls
Panza Dragoon = either a rail like gun game or a linear RPG
Streets of rage = a small arcade beat em up
Guardian Forces = Dynasty Warriors perhaps?
Shining Forces = I can imagine this working as a smaller title like I am Setsuna or even take a gamble on a turn based game. Final Fantasy has been naff since moving away from it.

Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 06, 2017, 06:28:45 am
Shining Force will sell because of the Fire Emblem crowd.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Tad on July 06, 2017, 06:44:47 am
There's no guarantee of that. Remember, we're in an industry where the media is dominated by kids who grew up loving Nintendo and even when they try to not be bias, it shines through.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 06, 2017, 07:05:50 am
There's no guarantee of that. Remember, we're in an industry where the media is dominated by kids who grew up loving Nintendo and even when they try to not be bias, it shines through.

True, nothing has changed since we were kids.  :p  Shining Force was my first strategy game though, and it is why I checked out Fire Emblem when it came out on GBA (mostly because there weren't any new Shining Force games coming out) and I liked it.   I did drop the Fire Emblem series after Gamecube, but a new Shining Force would be totally awesome.   Maybe an anime series too?  Eh?   :D
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on July 14, 2017, 09:28:39 am
I am not surprised by these reviews (they aren't as bad as I thought). The fact that the game was getting released (aka dumped) during the mid-summer season, it's budget price upon release and the non-existent promotions from SEGA / Deep Silver it was clear that they had no confidence in the product.


SEGA's PR started softening the blow late last year when they claimed that they wanted to continue the Valkyria Chronicles series, while Valkyria Revolution would be a parallel series, a quasi-seperate series. It's clear that Valkyria Revolution as seperate series is headed to an early grave.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on July 15, 2017, 11:49:08 pm
I am not surprised by these reviews (they aren't as bad as I thought). The fact that the game was getting released (aka dumped) during the mid-summer season, it's budget price upon release and the non-existent promotions from SEGA / Deep Silver it was clear that they had no confidence in the product.


SEGA's PR started softening the blow late last year when they claimed that they wanted to continue the Valkyria Chronicles series, while Valkyria Revolution would be a parallel series, a quasi-seperate series. It's clear that Valkyria Revolution as seperate series is headed to an early grave.

If they knew it was going to suck, why bother making it?  Why is it considered a spinoff?  Did they just not want to make a new entry in the main series because it would take too much effort, time, and resources?  Were they going to replace the main series with it?  I hope not.  They better rectify this.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Berto on July 16, 2017, 07:45:50 pm
If they knew it was going to suck, why bother making it?  Why is it considered a spinoff?  Did they just not want to make a new entry in the main series because it would take too much effort, time, and resources?  Were they going to replace the main series with it?  I hope not.  They better rectify this.

They are not replacing the main series. They're just trying to replace Shining series with that. Here's some brief explanation I read from a Neogaf member :

Back then most of their strategic choices for their japanese IP were dictated by the japanese market, and Valkyria Chronicles didn't sell well at all, for all purpose it was mostly using the core gameplay mechanics used by Sakura Taisen since the third entry on Dreamcast, with the latest entry on PS2 being a huge disappointment in sales (at its peak the IP was a 500k seller, third entry was >300k, Sakura Taisen V is <200k) they probably decided to move forward with a new IP for a fresh start on PS3 instead.

The development costs for Valkyria were without a doubt notably higher and guess what?

The game had the exact same sales than Sakura Taisen V, which is the last entry this series ever got, on a financial basis Sega Japan probably took a hit there

In order to salvage the IP, Japan then got a budget version released one year later that started decently (because of good word of mouth likely) but really had a spike when the anime adaptation started on TV, anime adaptation which changed a few details in the story and clearly prefigured what was to come for the IP later on (a character design trying to appeal moe anime fans, some dumb love triangle with Welking Alicia Faldio etc.)
In the end it made the game go from 150k to 250k, that's better but still nowhere near enough to make it a relevant IP on the home console market considering the costs involved, PSP was also booming at that time in Japan so in that context it was not so stupid to make the jump which they did and... while it didn't sell wonder Valkyria Chronicles 2 ended up at 150k, yep the exact same sales the first one got on PS3 originally but for a lower cost.
It was still not enough, but with the investments done so far they decided to do a third entry one year later that went back to its roots, the game was made from a lot of rehash and done by an external team Media Vision (which kinda become the team developing RPG for Sega afterwards with two Shining and Valkyria Revolution) it was fine for what it was and a good product and sold... 150k once again.
They tried a cheaper extended rerelease 10 months later which didn't do much (20k maybe ?) unlike the original VC.

What happened for Valkyria Revolution is that after two Shining games made by Mediavision (the IP they decided to go with the next few years instead of Valkyria), the latest being an action RPG, it was probably decided that when pitching their next project late 2014, instead of doing a new Shining it was maybe better to go with the Valkyria IP instead, domestic sales would probably be rather similar (Shining are 100-150k seller) but the worldwide appeal of Valkyria will make it worthwhile to localize the game for western markets (the two Shining aforementionned never got there, although being on PSP and PS3 probably didn't help), at that time VC wasn't/was barely released on Steam, it was also a side project Sega Japan had nothing to do with.

As for western sales, it's still worth mentioning that the original VC didn't sold gangbusters at launch either, it was rather quickly discounted (I remember having a discussion on Gaf on that topic one or two years ago, I'll try to dig up what it was about in details later on), as for the PC release while its raw sales number is incredible (it's around 1M) it should never be forgotten that the game was released at the 20$ pricepoint and most of its sales happened when the game was heavily discounted (5$)
Overall 1M sales for an average 10$ makes the same money than 200k sales at 50$.

And let's not even talk about the "first to be there" syndrome where every japanese IP releasing games on Steam had a dramatic drop in sales for its second entry.

Valkyria Chronicles 4 may/will/is happen(ing), but if it does it was always a project that had nothing to do with Valkyria Revolution to begin with, which is also what Sega always said when they were asked the question.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on July 17, 2017, 08:36:55 am
If they knew it was going to suck, why bother making it?  Why is it considered a spinoff?  Did they just not want to make a new entry in the main series because it would take too much effort, time, and resources?  Were they going to replace the main series with it?  I hope not.  They better rectify this.

Like I said, I based my observations mostly off this article from Niche Gamer (http://nichegamer.com/2016/12/27/sega-confirms-valkyria-chronicles-still-ongoing-valkyria-revolution-is-like-parallel-series/). A parellel series of sorts which would share certain elements  / themes with the original franchise. But the original franchise is still very much a thing.


Still, I haven't played Valkyria Revolution (still sittin' in the shelf while I play Yakuza 0)...
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Randroid on July 17, 2017, 12:25:03 pm
Picked it up this weekend and gave it a go.

I like it, though it does feel more like a Vita game then a full blown PS4 game.

Still, I don't get the hate. It's fun. Reminds me of Star Ocean, but yeah, much more fun.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Berto on July 17, 2017, 08:15:45 pm
Picked it up this weekend and gave it a go.

I like it, though it does feel more like a Vita game then a full blown PS4 game.

Still, I don't get the hate. It's fun. Reminds me of Star Ocean, but yeah, much more fun.

Agree. It's a good addition for PS Vita's library, but not so much for PS4.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Randroid on July 22, 2017, 08:45:20 pm
Anybody still playing this?

The more I play, the more I like it. Especially the Boss battles. Having to use the right ragnites and keeping the squad on their feet, hella fun.

The cutscene loading drags things down about, but aside from that this game is pretty great when you figure out how setup and use your crew properly.

Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on August 21, 2017, 11:01:04 am
I started playing it as soon I finished Yakuza 0. 10hr in, at the 3rd chapter.


This game has Resident Evil 6 syndrome... It wants to be something new but it doesn't quite make the leap. This was focus-grouped to the max. The combination of Dinasty Warriors with this quasi-turned based action is strange at first, but you quickly adapt to it.


Story is interesting (compared to the good vs evil in Valkyria Chronicles, this is much darker / greyer), combat is actually pretty fun once you get the gist of it, upgrading and creating the perfect team and such.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Saonioc92 on August 21, 2017, 07:20:57 pm
How long has it even been since the last Phantasy Star?
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Betwixt Thieves on August 21, 2017, 10:44:56 pm
How long has it even been since the last Phantasy Star?

Depends if you count single player or online.

Phantasy Star Nova came out in 2014 and the latest edition of Phantasy Star Online 2 came out in 2016 for PS4.

Neither have made it out west though.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on August 22, 2017, 06:06:20 am
That has nothing to do with Valkyria Revolution. Speaking of said game, as I was tryin' to point out earlier, one of the main characters, Amleth has this permament brooding expression on his face. It's almost comical compared to this other more expressive co-conspirators.


Like I mentioned before, this game's plot is a little different from the WW2, with clear good guys and bad guys. It's a much greyer story with morally ambigious characters.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Randroid on August 22, 2017, 12:26:04 pm
I'm at chapter 5. Liking the story. Combat's fun, but I do have a gripe that perhaps you guys are handling better than I am.

Specifically, how are you handling the weapon upgrades?

I hate how you have to go to Basil's to do it. Also, why can't I just see what Ragnites I have? Is there seriously no way to just see your inventory of ragnites, or am I missing something somewhere?
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on August 22, 2017, 06:25:28 pm
I suspect that going to Basil for upgrades, switching battle palletes and doing R&D is similar to how the R&D worked in Valkyria Chronicles. Though that latter was all menu-based this one, you have manually move around Amlet. I only just realized that ragnite wasn't just for upgrading the characters skill trees, you can attach ragnite into a character's battle pallet.



Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Betwixt Thieves on August 24, 2017, 02:20:47 am
Finally opened this game tonight once the kiddos were in bed to check it out.  I didn't expect to wait so long before the first save point. I was so tired I was falling asleep.

So far it is a good game. Hoping to get more combat time. Felt like I hit a couple of buttons and the gameplay section was done.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Betwixt Thieves on August 29, 2017, 12:59:24 am
Have put a few hours in to this game and I am loving it. Currently I have been liking this more than Persona 5. The games feel similar to me although I know others may argue that would seem strange.

I wish I had more time to put in to the game right now because I am curious how the story ends.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Betwixt Thieves on August 31, 2017, 01:15:32 pm
What is up with the proportions of the Valkyria? Was I the only one thinking she was even over obnoxious compared to what I expected. It is to the point of comical. 😱
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Berto on September 03, 2017, 08:11:57 pm
What is up with the proportions of the Valkyria? Was I the only one thinking she was even over obnoxious compared to what I expected. It is to the point of comical. 😱

No, you're not the only one thinking about that.  ;-D
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=4007.0
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Asha on September 03, 2017, 08:38:36 pm

Well, the character designer (Raita Honjou) is a Hentai artist and simply can't hide this even in his SFW jobs for Sega...
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Shun-Di on September 04, 2017, 01:19:00 pm
Well, the character designer (Raita Honjou) is a Hentai artist and simply can't hide this even in his SFW jobs for Sega...

:p as long as the art is good.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on September 05, 2017, 05:57:07 am
Selvaria Bles and Alicia Melchiott were absurdly well endowned too, methinks, though Bhrunhilde certainly takes the cake. Illustrations done by an eroge artist? That explains a lot when I look at some of the character designs.


Anyway, I'm currentely at Chapter 9 and I am getting closer to the end. There's a shrowd a mystery that still hangs over the overall story but so far...


I'll say this first, as far as average JRPGs go, this at least, this towers over those easily. It's a weird mix, of quasi-turn based and on-the-fly hack & slash, but once you get into the game's groove and understand how you do magic, as well as upgrades, it all clicks.


Dare I say that, despite the fact that the cutscenes can sometimes drag on for a while, the story is quite engaging. While Valkyria Chronicles relies heavily on the four main leads, they do their best to make sure you care about the 8 or so Vannaguard members. Trust me, you'll care about 'em if you let them die on the battlefield before the time runs out.


I did, but fortunately I cheated by going back to a previous save file.
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: Asha on September 06, 2017, 09:23:57 pm
Eh, nothing against the art but I can't help but laugh at the girls and remember what the artist likes to draw. :))
Title: Re: So....Valkyria Revolution's reviews have showed up.
Post by: max_cady on September 10, 2017, 03:20:15 pm
(https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33901816/Valkyria-2-2.jpg)


Yep, looking at characters like Violette, Brunhilde, Ophelia and Sarah... They just scream Rule34-fodder!  ;-D >:D