SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on October 20, 2014, 05:43:33 am
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I've had this feeling for a long time now but SONIC BOOM is the one that has prompt me in making this post. I'm not really a Sonic fan. I feel Sonic is the result of so many games from Sega that they became experts at. Taking an existing style of game and turning it on its head to create a new type of game experience. This is what made many of the consumer and arcade dept developers such legends in the game industry. Titles such as VIRTUA FIGHTER...STREETS OF RAGE...and OUTRUN are the examples of this method from Sega..time and time again. What made the character stick though was the brilliant marketing devised by Sega America nad Sega west...which sold Sonic's character to the public. The combination of this and the solid game from Sonic Team..resulted in a Sega character that stuck in the minds of millions across the western world...for the first time..really..instead of being a game made by SOJ that was good...was popular for a few months...but then everyone apart from the fans...forgot about it.
During the megadrive era..Sega was careful on how they treated the character in their main games. Sure there were rubbish Sonic titles back then but they were often relegated on the Game Gear and such...the main titles in the series always had a level of quality.
But during the saturn era that had changed. And in my opinon it still carrying on.
I'm comparing Sonic to how Sega treats its other franchises at the moment. YAKUZA is the best example. YAKUZA however people like to say about it has a certain level of quality to them including the stand alone spin off games. YAKUZA makes money for Sega in japan and asia..but they make sure the studio behind them is firmly in the hot seat with Nagoshi personally over seeing it. Now that didn't really happen with Sonic since Sega went third party. Sonic is still popular. And he is still responsible of some of the big sales in the package market that Sega is withdrawing from..especially in the west where the majority of their big sales come from in this field.
Yet the character has been subjected to various different developing houses...poor western teams knocking out a cheap game..and virtually ignored when it comes to marketing. The people who can make a good Sonic game... aren't given the oppurtunity to do a big Sonic title...mainly DIMPS and Sumo Digital. This adds to the other point. When Sumo D was hired to create a Sega mascots game with Sonic in the lead it became a succesful title..but the first title never saw a release in Japan itself.
The saturn era is really when this contempt seem to show itself. A system that became Sega's first succesful game system in Japan and asia..and not a Sonic game in sight. Other titles were more important to SOJ than Sonic was. To pacify people they released two titles that were SONIC 3D and SONIC JAM and SONIC R..which was the best of the bunch. But no actual proper main Sonic title. That is like Nintendo not releasing a main Mario game on the SNES after their succesful first system. And the Megadrive/Genesis while not Sega's first system was Sega's first succesful system worldwide mainly in the west. And instead of cementing that fact they relegated him to a few side titles...
The DC addresed that and Sonic proved that he had the goods in his DC outings and its sales..but it was too late because the apathy had set in and the Sony propaganda and brainwashing of the masses were too strong for Sega to compete properly as well as the continuing incompetence of SOJ.
The third party era..has been a topsy turvy ride....no one in SOJ seemed bothered to focus on delevering a proper Sonic title..not even Naka himself. BILLY HATCHER got more beter attention than Sonic has during that time and that was a flop.
The only time when the quality of Sonic went up was when Nintendo was involved during the Olympic team ups. Is it a coincedence that SONIC GENERATIONS..SONIC COLORS SONIC AND THE SECRET RINGS considerd to be the beter Sonic games of the recent era came out during that same period? Did Sega have to up their game when Nintendo was invoved directly? I dunno...judging on the last two titles..SONIC LOST WORLDS ..which is effectivly SONIC XTREME and also looks like a saturn game too..and SONIC BOOM which so far looks like something out of Spyro the dragon..poor designs and a poor look overall. Sega can't be bothered to market these titles themselves and somehow gave it to Nintendo who i'm sure are regreting making that deal with Sega. Looking at how other titles from SOJ are treated its very poor considering what the character has made for Sega historically. I won't go into the sham that was SONIC 4 and some of the other mobile games. While there has ben good Sonic titles they are few and far between. Sega is a big corporate company who knows how to maintain the quality of a lng runing series when they want to. VIRTUA FIGHTER is a perfect example of that..and Yu Suzuki hasn't been around in years. Sonic on the other hand hasn't. Anyone can see the guy in charge of ST at the moment is more concerned with PHANTASY STAR and isn't capable of leading a team like that in the first place..since SOJ has more control over PS. He's had more misses than hits..NIGHTS 2 is another good example..missing the point of the original...and character of the game....that helped tarnish the NIGHTS legacy. I'm saying this because Sega hasn't ran their other big game franchises into theground...from SAKURA TAISEN to even STREETS OF RAGE had the care and atention to maintain the quality of their series. Sonic doesn't get that. MIKU and YAKUZA and a few others from SOJ does. Its obvious that there is more of a problem with Sonic being their character rather than a problem to create a good solid character. Sega knows who to go to to make a good sonic game..yet they haven't..and its obviously deliberate.
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The Sonic franchise is not as big of a money maker for Sega in Japan as the revenue they gain from UK, USA and other markets.
Now does that mean that Sega of Japan should have abandoned Sonic or allowed companies to tarnish Sonic's image? I think the problem might be more mismanagement of Sonic than outright disdain for the character. I think Sega of Japan's biggest problem is that they expect revenue and popularity of Sonic that they saw in the 90's yet they continually hand him over to incompetent companies (who have no vested interest in his success or failure) and let them do what they want with the brand.
Even with the new series, Sonic Boom, they said they wanted it created for a western audience with really no intention of releasing the series in Japan. They are hoping that the series will bring Sonic back to the popularity he once held in America/UK. They believe the same with the upcoming Sony film (which from the sounds of it will hopefully never get off the ground or at least hopefully they will get a new team involved with it).
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What i'd like to know is, did the sonicteam which made sonic games from sonic adventure 2 and on, have the same team as the sonicteam's which made phantasy star online for example? Because the difference in quality is huge. I went back playing sa2 the other day and when I was thinking it was pretty bad then, now everything just sticks out even more. This is very different from all the timeless games SEGA made including phantasy star online.
It just seems like sonic games sonicteam was never a well organized team after going 3D. Safe for sonic adventure 1 having redeeming qualities.
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What i'd like to know is, did the sonicteam which made sonic games from sonic adventure 2 and on, have the same team as the sonicteam's which made phantasy star online for example? Because the difference in quality is huge. I went back playing sa2 the other day and when I was thinking it was pretty bad then, now everything just sticks out even more. This is very different from all the timeless games SEGA made including phantasy star online.
It just seems like sonic games sonicteam was never a well organized team after going 3D. Safe for sonic adventure 1 having redeeming qualities.
I think Sonic Adventure 2 was a different Sonic Team than the team that developed Phantasy Star Online. The team that did Sonic Adventure 2 I think was even a different team than the one that made Sonic Adventure.
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What i'd like to know is, did the sonicteam which made sonic games from sonic adventure 2 and on, have the same team as the sonicteam's which made phantasy star online for example? Because the difference in quality is huge. I went back playing sa2 the other day and when I was thinking it was pretty bad then, now everything just sticks out even more. This is very different from all the timeless games SEGA made including phantasy star online.
It just seems like sonic games sonicteam was never a well organized team after going 3D. Safe for sonic adventure 1 having redeeming qualities.
I want to say that SA2 was the first game made by what would later be called Sonic Team USA, a smaller arm of the company devoted to developing games like Heroes, Shadow, and Nights Journey of Dreams. I don't know how big a staff they had working on those games, but I imagine it was smaller than the one that worked on SA1 or PSO. SA1 was made in considerably less time than either of those two games as well.
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I think SEGA Japan still sees Sonic as a valued brand, it just so happens that their poor management of the IP has lead to diminishing sales. But I do think that next year with an in house SEGA Japan Sonic title and Sonic Boom in full swing (not to mention the film by Marza.) could potentially be a massive year for Sonic since the team behind the games really are learning how to not screw up their games heh.
What i'd like to know is, did the sonicteam which made sonic games from sonic adventure 2 and on, have the same team as the sonicteam's which made phantasy star online for example? Because the difference in quality is huge. I went back playing sa2 the other day and when I was thinking it was pretty bad then, now everything just sticks out even more. This is very different from all the timeless games SEGA made including phantasy star online.
It just seems like sonic games sonicteam was never a well organized team after going 3D. Safe for sonic adventure 1 having redeeming qualities.
Most of SEGA's stuff is interchangeable these days. So whilst those people might still be at SEGA, they've moved around to help develop Yakuza games, Dengaki, Puyo, Miku etc.
The majority of the team that handled Sonic Unleashed onwards are mostly a new team too.
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I went back playing sa2 the other day and when I was thinking it was pretty bad then
Was it?
GamePro:
"The game is sweet music to all of your senses, combining visual and audio splendor to a degree that few adventures have achieved. This is one classic for the Dreamcast library that no one will forget."
IGN:
"If this is the last Sonic game in these declining Dreamcast years, it's satisfying to know that the DC didn't go out with a bang, but with a sonic boom."
GameSpot:
"The ghosts of those original 2D Sonic titles are exorcised in the game's amazing pace, heart-pounding platform jumping action, and in the unyielding barrage of creatively designed levels. "
Planet Dreamcast:
"This is without a doubt one of the best 3D platformers I have ever played on the Dreamcast, or on any other console for that matter."
And finally, EGM
"Sonic’s only real problem is the god-awful camera control."
Which is the absolute truth.
SA2 was bloody great when it came out in 2001. It's pretty normal it sucks nowadays since it's almost 14 years old. But don't jump on the "3D SONIC WAS SHIT BACK IN THE DAY TOO" bandwagon, because it wasn't.
Yes, I'm mad.
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Sonic Adventure 2 was praised back in the day, the camera was the only sticking point for many reviewers.
Also, Radrappy is right about Sonic Team USA. Phantasy Star Online was largely developed by the team responsible for the first Sonic Adventure.
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SA2 was bloody great when it came out in 2001. It's pretty normal it sucks nowadays since it's almost 14 years old. But don't jump on the "3D SONIC WAS SHIT BACK IN THE DAY TOO" bandwagon, because it wasn't.
Yes, I'm mad.
I honestly didn't like SA2 when it came out. It sat unfinished on my shelf for quite some time. I remember it got relatively bad reviews from EGM (did it even win a silver award?) and that SA2:B was almost universally panned less than a year later. This really lends to the narrative that people were only kind to it given that it was one of the DC's last games at the time. Looks like that charity wore off pretty damn fast.
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I honestly didn't like SA2 when it came out. It sat unfinished on my shelf for quite some time. I remember it got relatively bad reviews from EGM (did it even win a silver award?) and that SA2:B was almost universally panned less than a year later. This really lends to the narrative that people were only kind to it given that it was one of the DC's last games at the time. Looks like that charity wore off pretty damn fast.
Again, not true. I just posted reviews of the time. It was praised.
Of course I'm not saying everyone loved it. But it was NOT criticized nearly as much as over a decade of LIES would make you believe.
SA2:B was moderately well received.. 7/10 game.
People were kind to it because "new-gen" gaming hadn't kick in yet.
2001 was the turning point year in gaming, with Final Fantasy X, GTA 3 and Halo coming out the same year. People started looking at games in a different light. Production values went through the roof, and only AAA games got 9/10's from then on out.
Today people seem to forget that the Dreamcast has more in common with the PS1 era than the PS2's. But people still look back at the DC games and try to fit them in the context of games released from 02-06. They don't.
So yeah, in it's context SA2 was like a goodbye to an entire generation, completely eclipsed by a new wave of fresh premium top notch experiences.
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The saturn era is really when this contempt seem to show itself. A system that became Sega's first succesful game system in Japan and asia..and not a Sonic game in sight. Other titles were more important to SOJ than Sonic was
You know full well that SOJ had 3 Sonic games in development for the Saturn under Project Sonic . Sadly Saturn Sonic Adv was moved up to DC development and only Sonic R ever made it out (neither did Sonic fighters), but a true Sonic game was in development for the Saturn with the Sonic Team japanese staff . Sure maybe the Team should have been made to work on the title before NiGHTS (and not after it ) but the team most prob had Sonic burnout after making so many Sonic games on the MD in such a short space in time , and wanted to try something new. Plus the Saturn hardware was not the best suited to a true 3D Sonic game and so the team would have needed plenty of time to study the Hardware to see the kind of worlds they could make
The only time when the quality of Sonic went up was when Nintendo was involved during the Olympic team ups. I
I would take issue with that as to me Sonic and Mario Olympics are terrible sports based games and Sonic games did have a decent level of quality until Sonic 06 . To me the likes of Sonic Heroes weren't that bad and while everyone goes on about Shadow , people need to remember that wasn't even a Sonic title at all . To me the mains issues that a lot of Sonic games suffer from are the stupid set in stone release dates that means each Sonic game needs to ship before Christmas and the team aren't given a soft release date and then this daft focus on other characters instead of making a Sonic game based only on Sonic and around Sonic .
SEGA and Sonic Team have sorted out some of those troubles to be fair though .
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SA2 was bloody great when it came out in 2001. It's pretty normal it sucks nowadays since it's almost 14 years old. But don't jump on the "3D SONIC WAS SHIT BACK IN THE DAY TOO" bandwagon, because it wasn't.
Yes, I'm mad.
If we were talking solely about the Sonic/Shadow sections (The Green Hill Zone was absolutely brilliant and a blueprint of almost how to design a Sonic level in 3D) and the chao raising was great. But the dark storyline (I will admit though some of the cutscenes was really well done.) was very offputting for me and so was the other gameplay types just dragged down what could have been a great experience down.
I feel like it is a 5/10 game and the reason it got such high reviews was both the hype pre-release (Sonic was still a big IP then.) and furthermore it was a core game for the Dreamcast. Still if they kept working and tweaking that Sonic engine we would have had some wonderful games in the future, I felt it was almost as tight as Sonic should have been in 3D, but it was ditched for Sonic Heroes for some reason.
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I remember when Sonic Adventure 2 came out, Official Dreamcast Magazine actually issued an apology to their readers that the game was so poor.
It was so bad that Sega actually got sued by people who bought the game and LOST. The money they spent re compensating people who bought the game meant they had to cease production of Dreamcast (which was doubling Playstation 1 and 2 sales COMBINED at the time) and Shenmue III was cancelled (production of Jack Lumber continued).
The game got positive reviews because Sega bribed most major review outlets. If you check their actual reviews it's clear they didn't play the game, with all of them being variations of some PR that Sega sent them (complete with 'TM' each time the word 'Sonic' and 'Sega' were used) or they were inane prattle that had little to nothing to do with the game. I recall EDGE magazine giving the game a 9.63 out of 10 and stating 'The game is fun and rewarding in it's intricate yet simple gameplay. There is never a dull or not-fun moment. The tennis section... was fun.'
I still remember when I first played the game, I put the disc in the tray expecting another orgasmic experience on the level of the greatest game ever made, trembling, I dropped the GD-ROM several times before I could put it in to the wonder-console. I was surprised when the game took thirty-eight minutes and twelve seconds to load the title screen, but I imagined it would be worth the wait.
Well let me tell you, I was wrong. The game was so terrible I still can't fully believe it. Contrary to what Edge magazine would have me believe, the game was definitely not not-fun. I would even go so far as to say it was absolutely not-fun. Sonic controlled like a steak and kidney pie moving through congealed apple bramble, and the game would randomly crash to desktop in the middle of the first level. Which was especially bizarre considering the Dreamcast never had a desktop to speak of. When I finally navigated the rather alien Windows 98 with nothing but my Dreamcast pad and arcade stick peripheral and reinstalled this malicious piece of software, I had to wait another obscene amount of time for the game to load.
Upon loading I was met with a notification telling me the game needed to download a 3GB patch! Considering I only had 15 blocks left on my VMU I declined. Now I don't know if this patch greatly improved the game or not, but I never found out, and frankly I think it's disgusting that they would allow a patch so early, a full month before the game was officially released (I got the game early because my dad works for Nintendo).
I finally made it to the end of the first level. After zipping through the level through sheer luck and using some cheat codes I'd found in the latest Official Sega Saturn Magazine (I was surprised they worked, considering the cheats were for 'Blam! Machinehead') the level cut to a cut-scene that lasted about twenty six minutes of Sonic and Shadow arguing about a Chaos Ruby or some nonsense I was prompted to play a mission as Tails, who I believe is some type of rodent. I turned the game off in disgust when I realised he was not a rodent at all, but rather, some kind of horrible sin against nature that is part robot with comically large legs.
The fact is, this game was never good.
Don't even get me started on how bad Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 2 are. I just wish Sega would go back to their roots and make a sequel to the first Sonic game ever made, 'Sonic the Hedgehog One' on Master System (Master System is older than Mega Drive, which recieved a port of the game afterwards. It was okay, but missing the hang-glider segments, which was integral to the plotline).
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Again, not true. I just posted reviews of the time. It was praised.
Of course I'm not saying everyone loved it. But it was NOT criticized nearly as much as over a decade of LIES would make you believe.
I know the reviews were initially positive (save for egm). Im saying that everyone was overly generous at the time because it was the DC's swan song. Why do you think SA2:B, the same game with extra features reviewed so much lower (a full 2/3 points in most cases) only 9 months later? I don't buy your theory about differences in hardware between generations explaining it. The ps2 and gc wouldn't release games that blew DC games out of the water from a technical standpoint for years to come. Rayman 2 was widely considered to be the superior version of the game across all hardware, including the ps2.
And even then, no one in their right mind would compare Sa2 to Halo or FFX. Ironically, FFX didn't really stand the test of time either and I frequently see people calling it out for being the first game that started ruining the franchise.
Sa2 was overrated when it came out due to the context when it was released. SA2:B is proof of this. It was always a 6-7/10 quality game. The editor of DC ign even admitted to overrating the game when he scored it so highly soon after he moved on. Good gravy, SA2 only came out 9 months after the original. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how poorly it scored in comparison. It's fascinating.
Today people seem to forget that the Dreamcast has more in common with the PS1 era than the PS2's. But people still look back at the DC games and try to fit them in the context of games released from 02-06. They don't.
So yeah, in it's context SA2 was like a goodbye to an entire generation, completely eclipsed by a new wave of fresh premium top notch experiences.
Again, this is bogus. PSO, Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio, and even Grandia 2 were considered great games long after games like FFX or Halo came out. That's like saying games like OoT were held to a different standard when they came out. They weren't. Good games were still good games, and some were overrated or underrated when they came out. Sa2 happens to be the former.
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Oh my kidneys, that post was pure comedic poetry.
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We've been without a forum crazy person for so long that it was nice to see Mademan's post. Now I want some rap lyrics and sexist rants about women-like men, and then some tips for how to live in a cabin.
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1) The ps2 and gc wouldn't release games that blew DC games out of the water from a technical standpoint for years to come.
2) And even then, no one in their right mind would compare Sa2 to Halo or FFX.
3) Again, this is bogus. PSO, Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio, and even Grandia 2 were considered great games long after games like FFX or Halo came out.
1) I never said so.
2) I didn't. I said games shifted focus away from games like Crash Bandicoot and Sonic Adventure. The mere fact that you think they are so incomparable makes my point perfectly valid.
3) Yea, that's why we have had successful sequels for all those games!! Right guys? ...guys
Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just pointing out that the focus shift in gameplay styles in the industry was a real thing, and directly affected player's perceptions on gaming and their concept of what makes a good game.
And that would explain why Dreamcast games were well reviewed in the past and now people are nostalgic about them, but when they get rereleased it's a big bunch of meh from the press and fans. Which in turn leads people to retroactively say shit like "it sucked back in the day too".
They didn't. Think about it.
Your "reviewers just didn't want to be mean to a dying console" theory is bogus. I would be inclined to partially agree with Aki and say the hype contributed, but the simple fact that the hype was there at all (when was the last time everyone but nintendo fans got hyped for a platformer?) can link that theory to mine.
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This thread has gone way off topic, but the PS2 and Xbox changed gaming when they first released. (The PS2 way more than the Xbox, but both ushered in a new era of gaming - I would give the Xbox more credit, but they just copied what Sega did with the Dreamcast and made it profitable).
I clearly remember when the PS2 first hit shelves and I scoffed at it. Not only did I already have my $1,000 DVD player hooked up and I had the coolest game system with the Dreamcast - what would I need the PS2 for?
When I first saw Dead or Alive running on PS2 I laughed. This new jagged looking piece of garbage is the next generation? Yet when Final Fantasy X hit shelves a year later I knew something had changed.
Dreamcast looked old all of a sudden. The Gamecube did too.
It wasn't a game changer like Atari 2600 to NES or SMS, but there was a big change all of a sudden.
So to get back to my original point though. When Sonic Adventure first hit shelves it was amazing to see in action. It took what Mario 64 did for 2d games conversion to 3d and then made them fast and pretty. Sonic Adventure 2 game out just a short time later and was still amazing for the time. That time was short lived though because the new hardware and game experiences literally coming out months later were so far beyond that all of a sudden Sonic Adventure seemed like 10 years old in a blink of an eye.
Personally I still love my Dreamcast way more than my PS2, but there is no denying that Dreamcast just didn't have enough under the hood. And there was no way they were going to be able to upgrade the hardware to compete because they had to buy all of their chipsets and tech from outside companies. Sony had the DVD advantage working for them (not to mention some cash in the bank to fund any losses they took from their hardware division).
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The game got positive reviews because Sega bribed most major review outlets. If you check their actual reviews it's clear they didn't play the game, with all of them being variations of some PR that Sega sent them (complete with 'TM' each time the word 'Sonic' and 'Sega' were used) or they were inane prattle that had little to nothing to do with the game. I recall EDGE magazine giving the game a 9.63 out of 10 and stating 'The game is fun and rewarding in it's intricate yet simple gameplay. There is never a dull or not-fun moment. The tennis section... was fun.
I take it you are doing a wind up ? I still have the Edge magazine and Sonic Adv 2 scored a 7 out 10 for starters in EDGE mag (Issue #100). So I have to say, its clear you didn't read the EDGE review (plus there's nothing about Tennis) and I guess you're must also be on about the USA official Dreamcast mag too, because the official UK mag tells a different story too
Anyway looking over that I have to say that far too many praise up the 16 bit Sonic games to be something they are not ; They were far from the best Platform games in the 16 bit days and where the likes of Revenge Of Shinobi, Quackshot (such a overlooked game) Ghost N Ghouls, Mickey Mouse COI were far far better Platform games for me
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You know full well that SOJ had 3
Sonic games in development for the Saturn under Project Sonic . Sadly Saturn
Sonic Adv was moved up to DC development and only Sonic R ever made it out
(neither did Sonic fighters), but a true Sonic game was in development for the
Saturn with the Sonic Team japanese staff . Sure maybe the Team should have been made to work on the title
before NiGHTS (and not after it ) but the team most prob had Sonic burnout after
making so many Sonic games on the MD in such a short space in time , and wanted
to try something new. Plus the Saturn hardware was not the best suited to a true
3D Sonic game and so the team would have needed plenty of time to study the
Hardware to see the kind of worlds they could make
Don't give me that hogwash. Burnout? Sonic was a joint effort by the time the Saturn was around..between Sonic Team USA and Sonic Team Japan. How can they be burnt out when the MD games weren't big productions compared to what a Saturn game production was? Its nonsense. SOJ had no real intention of delivering a proper Sonic game..if they had they would have had one ready by the time of launch..just like they did with DC..and that was down to of necessity not because they wanted to. The fact that CLOCKWORK KNIGHT which was touterd as a new mascot was ready to go but had a sequel and a side game which was to expolit the popular Bomberman game that was succesful for Saturn. Shouldn't that have been Sonic rather than Clockwork Knight? SOJ didn't want Sonic because it was deemede to american especially when the success of the character was tied to the americans as well as japan. They wanted to start fresh..they wanted to prove that they could create a succesful system on their own. They wanted to prove they could create a new mascot as big as sonic..on their own....And it ultimatly failed....
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Thanks for the answers guys
Was it?
GamePro:
"The game is sweet music to all of your senses, combining visual and audio splendor to a degree that few adventures have achieved. This is one classic for the Dreamcast library that no one will forget."
IGN:
"If this is the last Sonic game in these declining Dreamcast years, it's satisfying to know that the DC didn't go out with a bang, but with a sonic boom."
GameSpot:
"The ghosts of those original 2D Sonic titles are exorcised in the game's amazing pace, heart-pounding platform jumping action, and in the unyielding barrage of creatively designed levels. "
Planet Dreamcast:
"This is without a doubt one of the best 3D platformers I have ever played on the Dreamcast, or on any other console for that matter."
And finally, EGM
"Sonic’s only real problem is the god-awful camera control."
Which is the absolute truth.
SA2 was bloody great when it came out in 2001. It's pretty normal it sucks nowadays since it's almost 14 years old. But don't jump on the "3D SONIC WAS SHIT BACK IN THE DAY TOO" bandwagon, because it wasn't.
Yes, I'm mad.
Usually when games age the way sa2 did then it can be argued that they were never really that great. The game got incredible reviews, but a lot of things felt like a step back from sa1. I remember when we got the game and my brother chose the dark/evil story first. Now imagine anticipating sa2 with all your life and the first things you're forced to do is a lame boss with shadow and then a stage with robotnik. I think I was like 11 and even I was like "wtf is this shit"(lol). But then i definitly enjoyed my time with it , especially when it got re released on the gamecube.
Then i played it the other day and eveyrything just stood out. The lame robotnik vs tails bosses, the bosses in general, the okayish level design, the cheap shots and deaths or the heavy feel of the characters. And I dont mean pinball physics weight heavy, but they feel like tanks on straight paths unless you spindash. The light weight stuff that was left in sonic adventure 1 which was very reminiscing of sonic's early concepts and most prominintly in the ova was really well captured by sonic adventure 1. Not only by the controls and feel, but also the fantastic level design. Sonic adventure 1 aint the best of games either(full of glitches), but the level design is still really strong, the music also is a lot more varied and inspired than sa2.
No offense brah I know you like sa2 :p. Just for discussion sake and realization that i may have been playing pretty bad 3d sonic games lol. I think we can all at least agree that sonic deserves a much better team. Here have a picture of a deformed president http://38.media.tumblr.com/cfda5838afecf8a5671b3fa45040c658/tumblr_mk359xV7Om1qd09iko2_400.png.
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Don't give me that hogwash. Burnout? Sonic was a joint effort by the time the Saturn was around.
Yes burnout and the team getting bored of making the same game all the time . In the space of 4 years we had 5 main Sonic games and the planned Sonic IV scrapped and when it came to the main Sonic games on the Mega Drive and Mega CD it was the work on Japanese Team both in the USA and Japan even in STI (where the Japanese team worked on different floor and did most of design and coding) . Teams do like to get concepts and new games off the ground and try new stuff .
I'll not often give credit to Nintendo , but they give EAD a huge time frame to make each new entry in Mario Platform games and it tends to show in the games and the design .
SOJ had no real intention of delivering a proper Sonic game..if they had they would have had one ready by the time of launch..just like they did with DC
This is what does my head in , For starters everyone knows Sonic Adv was 1st in development for the Saturn (bar you) and this confirmed in Retro gamer that was the case by Iizuka-san . And for someone who's claims to be this bastion of SEGA knowledge a fan even of Sega Saturn mag . I'll just point you too a few things SEGA Japan did have a main Sonic game in development for the Saturn , those are facts ..
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3955/14979748943_870776200b_c.jpg)
(https://flic.kr/p/oPH8tv)(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3943/15576238746_3eb5bcd559_z.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/oPEbrm](https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5616/14979173574_8272da8856_c.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/oPH98r](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3954/14979751143_b5548739f0_c.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/pu7mCj](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3939/15414307610_281c2109fc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pJqi7s)[/url][/url][/url]
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Love thos magazine pictures thanks TA :)
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I take it you are doing a wind up ? I still have the Edge magazine and Sonic Adv 2 scored a 7 out 10 for starters in EDGE mag (Issue #100). So I have to say, its clear you didn't read the EDGE review (plus there's nothing about Tennis) and I guess you're must also be on about the USA official Dreamcast mag too, because the official UK mag tells a different story too
Do you have a single fact to back that up? Talk is cheap and right now you're averaging about a wooden nickel per word my friend.
7/10 adjusted for inflation is a clear 9.36/10 at LEAST. It might even be a 9/9 if we adjusted the review score like OXM (Official Xbox Magazine) did when Halo 2 came out and revolutionised the Xbox Magazine Reviewing landscape.
Anyway, if you didn't like the tennis segment then congratulations, because the tennis segment was poor. Incredibly bad even. Yes, yes, you could use the fishing peripheral to play it, but that doesn't count for much when it would result in you breaking furniture by the Ikea-load because Sega didn't have the foresight to develop the wrist-strap that would later revolutionise the motion control landscape. ::) ::)
But more importantly, it's clear that nobody in the world actually liked Sonic Adventure 2. Why else would Sega issue free copies of the greatly improved 'Sonic Adventure 2: Battle' to anyone who brought in a reciept for Sonic Adventure 2 into EB Games (or Game Stop for our North American cousins)? Sonic Adventure 2: Battle (Henceforth referred to as SA2B) fixed most, but not all of the mistakes that made the original such a travesty. It would go on to recieve rave reviews from major fansites and professional reviewers alike. Check out this REFERENCED excerpt review for the game:
...flawless...Sonic
http://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/sonic-adventure-2-battle (http://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/sonic-adventure-2-battle)
There you have it. Flawless Sonic. Flawless Sonic means a Sonic game without faults. This has not been matched since, and only goes to show that by comparison Sonic Adventure 2 Vanilla was dog-shit that desecrated the up-to-that-point revolutionary Sonic landscape.
Anyway looking over that I have to say that far too many praise up the 16 bit Sonic games to be something they are not ; They were far from the best Platform games in the 16 bit days and where the likes of Revenge Of Shinobi, Quackshot (such a overlooked game) Ghost N Ghouls, Mickey Mouse COI were far far better Platform games for me
Finally some sense! The 16-bit games were all overshadowed by Sonic the Hedgehog One on Master System, the original game. The spin-offs on Mega Drive like Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 2: The Hedgehog were just pale imitations.
I will give them credit for inventing boss fights in Sonic The Hedgehog One, which was actually a programming error when an intern lost some code and accidentally made Robotnik stronger than any other enemy in the game. This was used to wonderful effect in Revenge of Shinobi which also contained one boss. It's a shame they didn't incorporate more bosses into that game, as I feel it could have been a winner if it did so, possibly revolutionising the action-game landscape. I was curious though as to why there were so many Ninjas in the game instead of Shinobis. Perhaps it was a translation error?
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Mang is better as a crazy person than a rational person.
Just don't lose yourself down the rabbit hole.
Also Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles > Almost all platformers from the 16 bit era. Level design speaks their worth alone.
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Yes burnout blah blah blah.
And here we go twisting again. I never said they weren't made..i said intention. Does Nintendo never have a Mario game near launch? Did Hudson or Sony never had their mascot or premier title available near Launch? Sonic Jam as everyone KNOWS came WAY late in the day. That meant that they had NO INTENTION of really going ahead with a Sonic title until they had to. I argued this already and won it since you couldn't argue why they never had one at launch. Burnout is an excuse and you know it. Especially when the sonic games was spilt between two teams from japan and america. So don't bother post old magazines as a point that you're correct because you can't explain properly why SOJ didn't have a game ready for or near launch. If you think SONIC JAM was an adequate title when it was nothing but an sonic game with extras then you are more deluded than i actually thought.
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Do you have a single fact to back that up? Talk is cheap and right now you're averaging about a wooden nickel per word my friend.
7/10 adjusted for inflation is a clear 9.36/10 at LEAST. It might even be a 9/9 if we adjusted the review score like OXM (Official Xbox Magazine) did when Halo 2 came out and revolutionised the Xbox Magazine Reviewing landscape.
Anyway, if you didn't like the tennis segment then congratulations, because the tennis segment was poor. Incredibly bad even. Yes, yes, you could use the fishing peripheral to play it, but that doesn't count for much when it would result in you breaking furniture by the Ikea-load because Sega didn't have the foresight to develop the wrist-strap that would later revolutionise the motion control landscape. (http://www.segabits.com/forums/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) (http://www.segabits.com/forums/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
But more importantly, it's clear that nobody in the world actually liked Sonic Adventure 2. Why else would Sega issue free copies of the greatly improved 'Sonic Adventure 2: Battle' to anyone who brought in a reciept for Sonic Adventure 2 into EB Games (or Game Stop for our North American cousins)? Sonic Adventure 2: Battle (Henceforth referred to as SA2B) fixed most, but not all of the mistakes that made the original such a travesty. It would go on to recieve rave reviews from major fansites and professional reviewers alike. Check out this REFERENCED excerpt review for the game:
And let's not forget the context of the situation. Sega needed SONIC ADVENTURE 2 to be a hit. It needed people to buy more DC's at that time because Sony was winning the battle from the get go. So i wouldn't be surprised if they had gone out and bribed people especially at the climate where most magazines were hostile against Sega.
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Do you have a single fact to back that up? Talk is cheap and right now you're averaging about a wooden nickel per word my friend.7/10 adjusted for inflation is a clear 9.36/10 at LEAST. It might even be a 9/9 if we adjusted the review score like OXM (Official Xbox Magazine) did when Halo 2 came out and revolutionised the Xbox Magazine Reviewing landscape.
Yes ... Here you go . 7 out of 10 and not a mention of tennis in the review ::)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15415229878_058988f0e0_z.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/puc5io](https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15415228248_2692f4951a_z.jpg)
(https://flic.kr/p/puc5Mu)[/url][/font][/color]
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And here we go twisting again. I never said they weren't made..i said intention.
Not twisting you were quite clear . Just setting the facts straight that's all . Like I said all along SOJ had a major Sega Saturn Sonic game in development , sadly it got pushed up to Dreamcast development
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And let's not forget the context of the situation. Sega needed SONIC ADVENTURE 2 to be a hit. It needed people to buy more DC's at that time because Sony was winning the battle from the get go. So i wouldn't be surprised if they had gone out and bribed people especially at the climate where most magazines were hostile against Sega.
Hostile? That's an understatement, they were downright murderous towards Sega. It was an all-out war, not that any FAKERS who weren't around in 1999 would know this. Pfft, nothing personnel kids, but I think you need to realise how malicious magazines were towards Sega back in the halcyon days.
I still recall a particular hatchet piece being written about Sega in Edge Gaming Electronic Magazine by Steve Jarratt in 1999. It was particularly curious, because Steve worked for Sega Power magazine, and that particular publication had gone the way of the dodo two years earlier. He claimed that Sega was directly financing terrorists in Syria through a 'black budget' that was supposedly being used to develop their next 'Killer App' Jack Lumber. The fact that he was right about all this was pure coincidence, his article was nothing but libel (or slander if spoken instead of printed).
It was tough. Really tough. I still remember being at a Sega fan club meeting and Rich Leadbetter (who previously was editor of Sega Saturn Magazine) was in a frenzy. He was calling for Sega fans to raise arms (and in addition, their legs and other peripheral body parts, presumably in a fast and violent manner) against the journalists. I saw a young girl in her twenties who came just to play 'NiGHTS' and ask about a sequel to 'Exhumed' try to run out the back door when Rich was describing his plans for an improvised letter bomb addressed to the office of Famitsu. She made it to the door, only to find it locked and blocked by a burly man wearing a Clockwork Knight T-shirt that was clearly bootlegged, as they mis-spelt the word 'Clock' and it featured a picture of Donkey Kong.
Richard swooped onto her immediately (I mean literally 'swooped' as he was wearing a pair of functioning artificial wings and a jetpack at the time) and when she told him he was going too far, he grabbed her by the arm, pushed her against the wall and said 'we'll never rest until they treat this video game publisher with the respect they deserve'. He produced a razor blade from his pocket and began yelling to everyone about how we we 'don't take one step back!'.
It all got a bit strange, but we ended the night playing Vectorman 4 player mode with multi-taps which was quite fun.
And @TA:
Burnout? I'm glad somebody finally mentioned this. Burnout is what Sonic Adventure 2 was MEANT to be. Trip Hawkins stole the design plans from Sega and EA then made the original Burnout instead. Burnout was intended to be the killer sequel to Sonic Adventure One but because EA no longer had access to the Hedgehog Engine (TM), they couldn't make a game that fast with Hedgehogs. After a long night of brainstorming and the removal of the jump button, they decided to replace the anthropomorphic rodents with... CARS! You can see the similarities in hindsight, even though Sega tried to cover it up at the time of release. If you crack the disc open, you can still find the source code that refers to the cars as 'Hedgehogs' and the remnants of the platforming segments.
Truly a shame that it got scrapped.
As for the pictures you posted, I see you conveniently didn't post the score... Nor did you post the 'post mortem' feature they had in the following issue where they made mention of the tennis segment and showed pictures of the cheques from Sega.
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As for the pictures you posted, I see you conveniently didn't post the score
Its there mate 'Seven Out Of ten' . Bottom left of the pic . Its quite clear you've never ever read the EDGE review of Sonic Adv II at all ::)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15415228248_2692f4951a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/puc5io)
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Its there mate 'Seven Out Of ten' . Bottom left of the pic . Its quite clear you've never ever read the EDGE review of Sonic Adv II at all ::)
Thanks, but that's the PAGE NUMBER. Page 7 out of 10.
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This is just getting crazy now!
We all know that Sonic Adventure 2 was originally released for the Nomad with a locked camera because Sega was scared that users would get nauseous if playing 3d games on a handheld. Why most people don't know that it was released for the Nomad was because Sega did a poor job of letting people know that this super powered handheld could do more than just play Genesis titles. Subsequently Sonic Advance 2 was the only true Nomad cartridge released. As you know - not only did it not sell well because it was a sequel to a game that had not yet been made, but also as mentioned above in the thread the game was terrible beyond all comprehension.
So to say that SA2 felt dated the moment it came out it is totally legitimate. The game had been developed for a handheld machine that debuted 4 years earlier.
On a side note the Motorola 68000 is being used to power the PS4 still today. Microsoft dropped the ball when they decided to save money by going with a MOS technology. I've heard that MOS has had problems keeping up with production.
It didn't help that the Euro was established the year the Dreamcast game out either. That led to the rushed production of SA2 because Sega needed to spend through all of their ECU before it was converted to Euros. Why do you think Sega went from an annual net income of 28,017 yen in 1993 to (51,750) yen by 2001? They had spent through all of their money and most of their savings coming up with awesome games that were gobbled up by enthusiasts worldwide (6 billion players registered on the Dreamcast - look up the ads - ads can't lie). They finally ran out of savings to make more games, and all the new earnings from sales were lost when in 2001 when the Geiyo earthquake hit. One of the two people that died during this earthquake was Sega's banker, Kotaro Hayashida. He had all of Sega's earnings with him when the quake hit. The last thing Hayashida was able to do before passing on was play a game of Janken with a bystander that was helping him in his last moments. He wagered all of Sega's money on the game. Hayashida used Guu and the bystander used Paa. The rest is history. That bystander worked for Sony's Playstation division and invested all of the money in to their company giving Sony the lead it still holds today.
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Not twisting you were quite clear . Just setting the facts straight that's all . Like I said all along SOJ had a major Sega Saturn Sonic game in development , sadly it got pushed up to Dreamcast development
And development during that late in the game PROVES the point. I never said the game wasn't in existence..i said they had NO INTENTION in doing a proper sonic game which they didn't. Using well they had one in development is like saying well they had SHENMUE in development for Saturn when we all know they didn't come out for that system. SHENMUE has an excuse..Sonic clearly doesn't.
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Thanks, but that's the PAGE NUMBER. Page 7 out of 10.
LOL..
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Hostile? That's an understatement, they were downright murderous towards Sega. It was an all-out war, not that any FAKERS who weren't around in 1999 would know this. Pfft, nothing personnel kids, but I think you need to realise how malicious magazines were towards Sega back in the halcyon days.
I still recall a particular hatchet piece being written about Sega in Edge Gaming Electronic Magazine by Steve Jarratt in 1999. It was particularly curious, because Steve worked for Sega Power magazine, and that particular publication had gone the way of the dodo two years earlier. He claimed that Sega was directly financing terrorists in Syria through a 'black budget' that was supposedly being used to develop their next 'Killer App' Jack Lumber. The fact that he was right about all this was pure coincidence, his article was nothing but libel (or slander if spoken instead of printed).
It was tough. Really tough. I still remember being at a Sega fan club meeting and Rich Leadbetter (who previously was editor of Sega Saturn Magazine) was in a frenzy. He was calling for Sega fans to raise arms (and in addition, their legs and other peripheral body parts, presumably in a fast and violent manner) against the journalists. I saw a young girl in her twenties who came just to play 'NiGHTS' and ask about a sequel to 'Exhumed' try to run out the back door when Rich was describing his plans for an improvised letter bomb addressed to the office of Famitsu. She made it to the door, only to find it locked and blocked by a burly man wearing a Clockwork Knight T-shirt that was clearly bootlegged, as they mis-spelt the word 'Clock' and it featured a picture of Donkey Kong.
Richard swooped onto her immediately (I mean literally 'swooped' as he was wearing a pair of functioning artificial wings and a jetpack at the time) and when she told him he was going too far, he grabbed her by the arm, pushed her against the wall and said 'we'll never rest until they treat this video game publisher with the respect they deserve'. He produced a razor blade from his pocket and began yelling to everyone about how we we 'don't take one step back!'.
It all got a bit strange, but we ended the night playing Vectorman 4 player mode with multi-taps which was quite fun.
And @TA:
Burnout? I'm glad somebody finally mentioned this. Burnout is what Sonic Adventure 2 was MEANT to be. Trip Hawkins stole the design plans from Sega and EA then made the original Burnout instead. Burnout was intended to be the killer sequel to Sonic Adventure One but because EA no longer had access to the Hedgehog Engine (TM), they couldn't make a game that fast with Hedgehogs. After a long night of brainstorming and the removal of the jump button, they decided to replace the anthropomorphic rodents with... CARS! You can see the similarities in hindsight, even though Sega tried to cover it up at the time of release. If you crack the disc open, you can still find the source code that refers to the cars as 'Hedgehogs' and the remnants of the platforming segments.
Truly a shame that it got scrapped.
As for the pictures you posted, I see you conveniently didn't post the score... Nor did you post the 'post mortem' feature they had in the following issue where they made mention of the tennis segment and showed pictures of the cheques from Sega.
Exactumundo.
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Thanks for the answers guysUsually when games age the way sa2 did then it can be argued that they were never really that great. The game got incredible reviews, but a lot of things felt like a step back from sa1. I remember when we got the game and my brother chose the dark/evil story first. Now imagine anticipating sa2 with all your life and the first things you're forced to do is a lame boss with shadow and then a stage with robotnik. I think I was like 11 and even I was like "wtf is this shit"(lol). But then i definitly enjoyed my time with it , especially when it got re released on the gamecube.
Then i played it the other day and eveyrything just stood out. The lame robotnik vs tails bosses, the bosses in general, the okayish level design, the cheap shots and deaths or the heavy feel of the characters. And I dont mean pinball physics weight heavy, but they feel like tanks on straight paths unless you spindash. The light weight stuff that was left in sonic adventure 1 which was very reminiscing of sonic's early concepts and most prominintly in the ova was really well captured by sonic adventure 1. Not only by the controls and feel, but also the fantastic level design. Sonic adventure 1 aint the best of games either(full of glitches), but the level design is still really strong, the music also is a lot more varied and inspired than sa2.
No offense brah I know you like sa2 :p. Just for discussion sake and realization that i may have been playing pretty bad 3d sonic games lol. I think we can all at least agree that sonic deserves a much better team. Here have a picture of a deformed president http://38.media.tumblr.com/cfda5838afecf8a5671b3fa45040c658/tumblr_mk359xV7Om1qd09iko2_400.png.
Yeah, I agree with you. The game has not aged well.
But I believe that has more to do with the expectations players had back in 2001 rather than the game sucking ass. It kinda does now, but in the context of it's time it was pretty good. Same with most DC and PS1 games..
Anyone that states the first Tomb Raider is still a fun experience is delusional.
Sure it was great back then, but cmon... today we can clearly see those tits are just a bunch of triangles!
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Thanks, but that's the PAGE NUMBER. Page 7 out of 10.
The page number is on the bottom right of the page ::) . The 2 page review of Sonic Adv II is on pages 094 to 095 . Anyone that reads EDGE knows the early pages of devoted to the news section . So its quite clear not only did you not read the review , you're not an EDGE reader at all . EDGE reviews/Testscreens are always towards the back pages of the magazine . For added irony in the same issue pages 7 to 9 are about SEGA transition to a 3rd party developer in EDGE's news section
LOL..
So you haven't read the review either ? . Well for the both of you non EDGE readers here's the review of Sonic Adv II in EDGE
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3939/15417333190_fbb36569fe_c.jpg)
(https://flic.kr/p/punS2u)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3939/15417333190_fbb36569fe_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/punS2u)
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And development during that late in the game PROVES the point.
What in early 1996 ? . The main Sonic game started life as soon as the Team finished work on NiGHTS . Its not like Mario is always ready to go on Nintendo machines. Mario didn't lauch with the Wii or there was no 3D mario ready to go for the Wii Lauch and SEGA Japan took an age to get Sonic CD ready for the unit .
You love to make out there was no major Sonic game in development for the Saturn, by SOJ. You are were wrong
SHENMUE in development for Saturn when we all know they didn't come out for that system
Shenmue was in advanced state of Saturn development, sadly it too got moved up .It happens . Now you tried to make out SEGA Japan didn't have a major Sonic game in development for the Saturn, they did .
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The page number is on the bottom right of the page ::) . The 2 page review of Sonic Adv II is on pages 094 to 095 . Anyone that reads EDGE knows the early pages of devoted to the news section . So its quite clear not only did you not read the review , you're not an EDGE reader at all . EDGE reviews/Testscreens are always towards the back pages of the magazine . For added irony in the same issue pages 7 to 9 are about SEGA transition to a 3rd party developer in EDGE's news section
I ask once more, do you have a single fact to back that up? All I see are hastily photoshopped pictures of some rag-mag to try and prove a point. A point that was dulled long ago by the file of TRUTH.
It's clear to everyone who sees this that the 94/95 is the review score for the game. It's a 94 out of 95%, the pages are Page Seven out of Ten, and they didn't do it on the other page because it would be a waste of ink, any bloody fool can tell the opposite page is Page Eight out of Ten. ::)
It's clear to me you've never worked in the publishing industry kid, did you even know that there's no such thing as White Ink? Or that there is such a thing but it's not effective to use? And rather publications needing to print white on black will actually use black ink to print all AROUND the white text which will just be the white paper showing underneath? I didn't think so...
Regardless, as I said, even if they gave this game a Seven out of Ten (coincidence that it would be on the seventh page too, I've noticed you haven't scanned the phantom 'preview pages' of the magazine either...) then adjusted for seasonal inflation it would be a 9.36/10 in modern review terms. Don't forget Sega was bribing every major magazine and blogger back in those days for review scores. Shenmue getting a 75% in Official Dreamcast Magazine? YEAH RIGHT ::) that was Sega paying for a brand new set of kitchen knives me-thinks.
I noticed you didn't even touch my points about the Burnout controversy, afraid you'll get proven wrong again? Heh, to quote Knuckles; 'I finally found you, FAKER!'
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Well its clear you're taking the piss , but since we want proof and I could do with a laugh . Where your proof of EDGE giving the score of 9.63 and saying this about Sonic Adv II
[EDGE magazine giving the game a 9.63 out of 10 and stating 'The game is fun and rewarding in it's intricate yet simple gameplay. There is never a dull or not-fun moment. The tennis section... was fun.[
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"You thought we could be decent men, in an indecent time! But you were wrong. The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world are reviews. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair."
No really this thread is cool, I like it. i've learned more through it.
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"You thought we could be decent men, in an indecent time! But you were wrong. The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world are reviews. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair."
No really this thread is cool, I like it. i've learned more through it.
If only some people could learn to read reviews properly like MadeManG ::)
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If only some people could learn to read reviews properly like MadeManG ::)
Truly the voice of The People
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Without a forum crazy person for so long that it was nice to see Mademan's post
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What in early 1996 ? . The main Sonic game started life as soon as the Team finished work on NiGHTS . Its not like Mario is always ready to go on Nintendo machines. Mario didn't lauch with the Wii or there was no 3D mario ready to go for the Wii Lauch and SEGA Japan took an age to get Sonic CD ready for the unit .
You love to make out there was no major Sonic game in development for the Saturn, by SOJ. You are were wrong
Shenmue was in advanced state of Saturn development, sadly it too got moved up .It happens . Now you tried to make out SEGA Japan didn't have a major Sonic game in development for the Saturn, they did .
There was NO major Sonic game made for the saturn SONIC JAM and SONIC R are not major Sonic titles. There was no real development for Sonic on the saturn. Which is WHY SONIC ADVENTURE never appeared.
But wait let's hear from the horse's mouth....
Sega Saturn Magazine: Sonic Adventure (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure) seems to be an incredibly complex game. Where did the inspiration come form?
Yuji Naka: I thought of the concept itself right at the end of the development of the NiGHTS project - around August 1996. Actual development on Dreamcast started last July (July 1997).
So no SONIC ADVENTURE was never coming to Saturn. Which means i'm correct. As usual.
But hey there's more...
Sega Saturn Magazine: What were the beginnings of taking Sonic into a
3D world?
Yuji Naka: The first starting point were experiments in which I tried
to see how the Sonic system would work in 3D...
But it doesn't stop there...
Sega Saturn Magazine: Was the 3D section of Sonic World (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_World), seen in the Sonic Jam (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Jam)
compilation, a part of thse experiments?
Yuji Naka: You got the point - that was actually part of the
experiments I carried out to see how Sonic would work in 3D.
Oh and more....
Sega Saturn Magazine: We half expected Sonic World as a full-on Saturn
game...
Yuji Naka: At the time I created that 3D section of Sonic Jam,
I obviously knew about Dreamcast, and just couldn't resist putting Sonic
Adventure on the new hardware.
So there you go no intention of creating a proper Sonic game for saturn....by the time they decided to make a proper sonic game..they went with the DC from the VERY beginning. Stop trying to rewrite history in order to show SOJ are the good guys. They don't and never knew what they had or what they are doing and couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.
So quit your BSing and accept the fact that SONIC was sidelined thruout the saturn era. And Mario there's always a game ready between the launch window..either at launch or the first year. That never happened with SONIC. because SOJ had no intention of releasing the game until they had to.
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There was NO major Sonic game made for the saturn SONIC JAM and SONIC R are not major Sonic titles.
Again and for the last time . There was a major Sonic game in development for the Saturns sadly due to market share and Saturn failure in the West it was moved to up to the Dreamcast . The sight seeing research that the Team did in S.America for Sonic Adv was all conducted in 1996 and in 1997 Sonic Team were also given the Sega Rally CS Team to up their numbers as work continued on 2 Saturn projects by the Sonic Team (namely Burning Rangers and Sonic Adv) . So a lot of time and effort was put in to the Saturn title and with out that work already done . Sonic Adv would never have been ready to launch just after the DC launched in Japan .
[/size]: I thought of the concept itself right at the end of the development of the [/color][/size]NiGHTS[/color][/size] project - around August 1996. [/color][/size]Actual development on Dreamcast started last July (July 1997)[/color]
LOL. Work did start on Project Sonic after NiGHTS, but that was on the Saturn; The Dreamcast project wasn't ready in 1996 and none of the DC hardware was in place (stuff like SH-4 and Power VR didn't come online until 1997 for starters) and keep on dreaming that a project of Sonic Adv size could be completed in just over a year much less the DC project was in any short of shape for development in 1996.
Stop trying to rewrite history in order to show SOJ are the good guys.
I'm not rewriting history at all . Fact is Project Sonic was in development for the Saturn and the original members of the Sonic Team . Clear from the interviews and also by the main director of Sonic Adv . Lots of games have been in serious development on a platform only to be moved up to another due to various reasons ... Luigi Mansion started life as an N64 title, Star Fox Adv the same, so did Kameo, so did Perfect Dark Zero , and if one looks at SEGA well a number of their XBox or PS2 titles started life on the DC before being moved up to other platforms like with Gunvalkyrie , Toe Jam and Earl 3 and son on . It happens
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Again and for the last time . There was a major Sonic game in development for the Saturns sadly due to market share and Saturn failure in the West
No there wasn't. Yuji Naka..said so in saturn magazine.
LOL. Work did start on Project Sonic after NiGHTS, but that was on the Saturn;
No there was an experiment which never was meant to be SONIC ADVENTURE for DC. Yuji Naka said so in saturn magazine...
I'm not rewriting history at all . Fact is Project Sonic was in development for the Saturn
No it never was. Yuji Naka SAID so in saturn magazine. You see unlike you i don't print articles out of context i go for the real meat. Yuji Naka never said SONIC ADVENTURE started on Saturn. He said the game was for DC and DC only. And again you proved my point that by the time they decided to go with a sonic game it was too late..which was my point all along. They should have had one ready within launch or the saturn's second year. But the reason they didn't is because they had no intention of creating a proper Sonic game. Anything associated with the MD mainly Sonic and SOA titles were canned or ignored. And the result? The biggest flop in E3 and the USA and UK. So stop rewriting history about the saturn and deal with the truth.
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Well its clear you're taking the piss , but since we want proof and I could do with a laugh . Where your proof of EDGE giving the score of 9.63 and saying this about Sonic Adv II
You're a real funny guy, you make me laugh TA. Why do you assume that I'm extracting the urine? Can't disprove me?
[size/]
I had a dream the other night. I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving.
[size\) [quote}
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LOL@MM
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Without a forum crazy person for so long that it was nice to see Mademan's post
Why are your first two posts such blatant spam and your two most recent posts read like a normal person? Anyway, I'm deleting the first two posts you've made and am keeping a close watch on your account.
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Because I'm so charismatic I'm converting spam-bots into regular forum-goers :afroman: :afroman: :afroman: :afroman:
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and regular forum-goers into spam-bots!
Guys, subsequent time you buy the pill, inquire your partners whenever they have to have just one. This could double up the sale with the anti-impotence medicine Cialis.A modern acquiring implies that the erectile dysfunction capsule which has pepped up the sexual lifetimeof adult men is proving to be efficient in the event of females struggling from a sexual disinterest. The investigate underlines the medication will work for ladies approximately it does in case of guys otherwise more.
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and regular forum-goers into spam-bots!
Guys, subsequent time you buy the pill, inquire your partners whenever they have to have just one. This could double up the sale with the anti-impotence medicine Cialis.A modern acquiring implies that the erectile dysfunction capsule which has pepped up the sexual lifetimeof adult men is proving to be efficient in the event of females struggling from a sexual disinterest. The investigate underlines the medication will work for ladies approximately it does in case of guys otherwise more.
Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 1 hours.
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and regular forum-goers into spam-bots!
Guys, subsequent time you buy the pill, inquire your partners whenever they have to have just one. This could double up the sale with the anti-impotence medicine Cialis.A modern acquiring implies that the erectile dysfunction capsule which has pepped up the sexual lifetimeof adult men is proving to be efficient in the event of females struggling from a sexual disinterest. The investigate underlines the medication will work for ladies approximately it does in case of guys otherwise more.
Link please....
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Link please....
http://www.erectionpillssummer.com
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Crackdude finally reveals he was a sleeper bot agent all along...
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We need tighter security protocols in Segabits forums to prevent this happening again.
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No there wasn't. Yuji Naka..said so in saturn magazine
Did you even read Sega Saturn Mag ?
In SEGA Saturn Mag #4 Feb 1996 and I quote Naka-san talking about the new Saturn Sonic , Then called: Team Sonic
The poses are already terrific and almost all the people involved with Sonic so far are lined up, so I think I could show you graphics which you wouldn't believe possible on the Saturn
Here's Oshimia-san again in the same issue again talking about Saturn Team Sonic
We hoped to surprise you again as with the first Sonic. We feel it will be effective, so can you look forward to something good !
So sorry Saturn Sonic was already in development in early 1996 , The team aspect of Sonic Adv in place and the Sonic Team also already having a lovely trip to S.America to do research . Then in Tokyo Game Show in April 1997 . SEGA Japan not only announce a Saturn Sonic, but also how Project Sonic will come in 3 phases .
No there was an experiment which never was meant to be SONIC ADVENTURE for DC.
The DC project was even a goer until late 1997 . Project Sonic had already started development . And to see you try and use Naka-san quotes after slating the guy, calling him a lair and a man that takes credit for games he's never worked on , much less downplay his role in Sonic is quite frankly laughable .
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Did you even read Sega Saturn Mag ?
You haven't. I proved with you're own magazine that Naka estabilshed thatt he game was NEVER a Saturn project.
I estabilshed using YOUR own magazine that the sonic titles were made WAY too late in the Saturn's run basically proving what i was saying that SOJ had no intention of creating a main Sonic title for the saturn from the start.
Also from the SAME magazine i proved that SONIC 3D world was just a side game to see if 3d sonic would work as Naka said himself. Its as clear as rain.
So i know who me and countless others who read this post is going to believe...and its not you.
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You haven't.
Not I just posted pics taken from my actual Sega Saturn mag's . So keep the comedy gold coming on that one and that Naka-san or the Sonic Team 1) Weren't working on 2) or never talked about Saturn Sonic
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Not I just posted pics taken from my actual Sega Saturn mag's . So keep the comedy gold coming on that one and that Naka-san or the Sonic Team 1) Weren't working on 2) or never talked about Saturn Sonic
And i just posted up a transcript of that interview where he said exactly that from Sega Saturn Magazine. Which goes to show as usual you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't pinpointed anything that can contradict me because Naka san said it himself.
He and i repeat DID not plan to make SONIC ADVENTURE..or transfer it from Saturn to DC because he knew the DC existed already.
Sega Saturn Magazine: The Sonic Team hasn't actually produced an original Sonic game for the Saturn. Why is now the time to bring him back for Dreamcast?
'Yuji Naka: After I created the four Sonic Mega Drive games I wanted the create different worlds. That's why I created NiGHTS and, just at the end of NiGHTS development, I heard about Dreamcast. I believed that Dreamcast would help the Sonic Team to produce the best quality Sonic games.
Yet agasin from the horses mouth. Totally contradicts what you are pandering about. The words..I KNEW THE DC existed at the end of NIGHTS....I PLANNED SONIC ADVENTURE for DC. So no no major SONIC title was ever planned for Saturn. No Sonic title was even considered for Saturn which is why SONIC X TREME was being made to fill the gap because the americans realised that Sonic was the mascot most people identified with Sega. The only ones who didn't and didn't care was SOJ who thought using the saturn to prove a point to SOA was the way to get ahead. And look what happened after that..failure upon failure upon failure. The Naka stuff is from the same magazine you trying to fool everyone else on. And you know it. So keep up lying and twisting...that's all you're good at anyways..
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SOJ were real dicks in the Saturn Era
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SOJ were real dicks in the Saturn Era
they want to kill america
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they want to kill america
Not just SOA... ALL of america.
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LOL@crackdude.
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Not just SOA... ALL of america.
Sega Sammy isn't only operated by Yakuza (gambling machines and the Yakuza series), they also have operators purposefully discriminating the West.
All of Sega is criminal intent
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All of Sega is criminal intent
Even SegaNerds joined the Kartel. Trying to buy us with sweet swag
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Even SegaNerds joined the Kartel. Trying to buy us with sweet swag
I won $10 Subway bucks from the Kartel by posting comments on Nerds. I felt like such a whore...
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Sonic Adventure 2 is metaphor for 9/11
So is the ending for Shenmue 2
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I won $10 Subway bucks from the Kartel by posting comments on Nerds. I felt like such a whore...
It was a dark time and we all did what we had to.
SOJ probably set up the Kartel just to laugh with each other in meetings at how Westerners will sell their honor. Special Task Force Director Cool references start to abound and then the meetings end with pictures being shown of Sega America staff wearing Project Mars shirts.
Please SOJ just go ahead and stand over America like it is your squat toilet. Be done with us!
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The Saturn era is simply four words....The Empire Strikes Back...SOJ was the empire and SOA and SoE was the rebellion...and just like that film the rebellion lost...
It was a dark time for the rebellion.....
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The Saturn era is simply four words....The Empire Strikes Back...SOJ was the empire and SOA and SoE was the rebellion...and just like that film the rebellion lost...
It was a dark time for the rebellion.....
Tom Kalinske was frozen in carbonite; David Rosen had his hand cut off.
Return of the Sega is the long awaited sequel that never got released.
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Tom Kalinske was frozen in carbonite; David Rosen had his hand cut off.
Return of the Sega is the long awaited sequel that never got released.
Michael Latham who created and produced the 2 million plus selling genesis game ETERNAL CHAMPIONS was denied not only a Saturn sequel but thanks to SOJ sheer bitterness and pettiness was denied to include EC Characters in the first online fighting game NET FIGHTER via Segasoft..
I guess he would be Chewie..
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Thinking back on how fucking glorious the Saturn could've been makes me physically sick.
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Thinking back on how fucking glorious the Saturn could've been makes me physically sick.
Its been making me sick for the last 20 years,mate...If you knew the stuff they had planned for that system...only to see it disapproved by SOJ time and again until people just got fd up and left..man you'd..well...time will tell when that whole era and what happened is finally revealed.
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And i just posted up a transcript of that interview where he said exactly that from Sega Saturn Magazine
Its not from that Sega Saturn Mag issues at all . All you done its troll the Internet and look for Interviews with the Sonic Team . That Interview is taken from SEGA Saturn Mag Issue #36 October 1998 ::) .
Now you want some other Interviews with the Sonic Team and where they openly admit they wanted to try something new and different (after 4 and more Sonic in a row) and where they don't rule out a sequel to Sonic or NiGHTS ??? or even talk down Sonic ?
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15635869355_3116b5e5df_z.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5614/15633198771_ee4cf14e39_z.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/oSQqd1](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3938/15015120504_fb267dc4d0_z.jpg)
(https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
[/url] (https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
'Yuji Naka: After I created the four Sonic Mega Drive games I wanted the create different worlds. That's why I created NiGHTS and, just at the end of NiGHTS development, I heard about Dreamcast. I believed that Dreamcast would help the Sonic Team to produce the best quality Sonic games
Are you even for real ? . Looking over what Naka-san said in 1996 and 1997 about Sonic and Project Sonic on the Saturn. In that same interview you posted he then goes on to say this and I quote ...
(https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)YN: I thought of the concept it's self right at the end of the NiGHTS Project -August 1997- Actual development started in Dreamcast last July (https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
So two things . 1) The August 1997 date is a obvious typo on SSM part since NiGHTS was complete and came out in 1996 (so the date should read August 1996) and 2) The Interview is taken from SSM October 1998 so 'July last year' would mean the DC project of Sonic Sdv started in July 1997 .
So like Iizuka confirmed to Retro gamer work on Saturn Sonic Adv was scrapped just after Sonic Jam and moved up to the DC. But for over a year the Team had been working on a Saturn Sonic game .
(https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)Michael Latham who created and produced the 2 million plus selling genesis game ETERNAL CHAMPIONS (https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
Well I've yet to see you even prove a link that EC Champions sold over 2 Million copies, never mind how and looking over that EC made next to impact on the Mega CD or helped the SEGA CD enjoy any better sales. The old guard of Street Fighter II, Mortal Kombat 3 and the like didn't really enjoy massive sales even on the PS , never mind Saturn . So why you or anyone else thing that Saturn EC would be a massive system seller is beyond me , more so when the Saturn already had more than enough of the best 2D and 3D fighters money could buy .
(https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
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Its not from that Sega Saturn Mag issues at all . All you done its troll the
Internet and look for Interviews with the Sonic Team . That Interview is taken
from SEGA Saturn Mag Issue #36 October 1998 ::)
.
Yet its taken you a whole week to find it. That's the difference..i don't need to TROLL anywhere..unlike you.
And none of your scans prove anything. I said SOJ. SOJ are in charge. They are the bosses. They could TELL Sonic Team whether they want another SONIC or they don't. That unlike Nintendo is the reason why the company is mismanged. Do you think any of Nintendo's teams can say i don't wanna do this because i'm tired? NO. The point is SOJ had no intention from the start to make a full on SONIC game. All you have done is proven my point. Thanks...
Now you want some other Interviews with the Sonic Team and where they
openly admit they wanted to try something new and different (after 4 and more
Sonic in a row) and where they don't rule out a sequel to Sonic or NiGHTS ??? or even
talk down Sonic ?
Funny if i said Sonic team..i said SOJ. More twisting again...
'Yuji Naka: After
I created the four
Sonic Mega Drive games I wanted the create different
worlds. That's why I
created NiGHTS and, just
at the end of NiGHTS development, I heard about Dreamcast. I believed that
Dreamcast would help the Sonic Team to produce the best quality Sonic
games
Are you even for real ? . Looking over
what
Naka-san said in 1996 and 1997 about Sonic and Project Sonic on the
Saturn. In
that same interview you posted he then goes on to say this and I
quote
... (https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
So two things . 1) The August 1997 date is a obvious typo on SSM part
since NiGHTS was complete and came out in 1996 (so the date should read August
1996) and 2) The Interview is taken from SSM October 1998 so 'July
last year' would mean the DC project of Sonic Sdv started in July 1997 .
(https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
Why do you keep lying? I have the transcript which i posted already. That's why i didn't bother with the scan. All you have done is prove im correct again...But see for yourself...
Sega Saturn Magazine: Sonic Adventure (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure) seems to be an incredibly complex game. Where did the inspiration come form?
Yuji Naka: I thought of the concept itself right at the end of the development of the NiGHTS project - around August 1996. Actual development on Dreamcast started last July (July 1997).
Nothing there proves you right. It still shows Naka had planned for SONIC ADVENTURE for DC when you said that he didn't. You still wrong on all fronts in that respect...
So like Iizuka confirmed to Retro gamer work on Saturn Sonic Adv was scrapped
just after Sonic Jam and moved up to the DC. But for over a year the Team had
been working on a Saturn Sonic game .
Yawn...Naka said otherwise..someone's lying...and i think i'll go with Naka...
Well I've yet to see you even prove a link that EC Champions sold over 2 Million
copies, never mind how and looking over that EC made next to impact on the Mega
CD or helped the SEGA CD enjoy any better sales. The old guard of Street Fighter
II, Mortal Kombat 3 and the like didn't really enjoy massive sales even on the
PS , never mind Saturn . So why you or anyone else thing that Saturn EC would be
a massive system seller is beyond me , more so when the Saturn already had more
than enough of the best 2D and 3D fighters money could buy . (https://flic.kr/p/pPFVdp)
Oh you mean the multi seller VF1 and 2 and the Streetfighters that took the western saturn audience by storm? Everytime you open you're mouth you prove to everyone why you are a bad joke around here. But of course the the steller sales of the saturn proved that didn't it?LOL EC was a big seller on the MD. I already showed evidence on it. Its even PLAIN to see when SOA decides to create two spin off games and several others after the fact including merchandise. Only Sonic enjoyed that type of money grabbing milking at that time. So don't try to sidewind the issue. If the game meant nothing SOJ would not simply have gone out of their way to block the characters TWICE. So keep dreaming about you're nonsense about the Saturn. SOJ ruined it. End of.
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To be fair, I think Eternal Champions was a pretty rubbish game.
Had some baller characters though. It would be nice to see it get a second chance I guess.
I mean lookit this badass dude. He's wearing a trench-coat and beats you up with a grappling hook:
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110728135538/stc/images/5/56/Larcentyler.jpg)
Then this cowboy lookin' motherfucker, he holds an ace of spades playing card in his hand sometimes.
(http://www.fightabase.com/images/chars/game/dawson_ec.jpg)
They even had Wesley Snipes as Blade. He's so cool he wears sunglasses, years ahead of it's time this game. This pre-dates Wesker by several weeks.
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/blade-et_2669.jpg)
What do you have to say to that? Shameful Display, Sega of America.
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Yeah...in comparison with SF or even MK for the MD, the game it's not as good or funtastic like the other ones, but at least the gameplay is solid and the character designs are really cool.
The future guy is a homage to that character from ST:New Generation xD
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Fair nothing..EC at the time was a well regarded game...with people applauding the graphic display and the ideas of the game. Its easy to overlook its impact today because like many Sega franchises..Sega never took full opportunity with them when the iron was hot..but it was one of the games that sold well on MCD and if released on Saturn would have drew the crowd in..to buy the system...
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Fair nothing..EC at the time was a well regarded game...with people applauding the graphic display and the ideas of the game. Its easy to overlook its impact today because like many Sega franchises..Sega never took full opportunity with them when the iron was hot..but it was one of the games that sold well on MCD and if released on Saturn would have drew the crowd in..to buy the system...
It made a big impact in my home... A BIG IMPACT WHEN IT HIT THE RUBBISH BIN BECAUSE THE GAME WAS UTTER TRIPE.
Then I bought a second copy of Virtua Fighter 2 on Mega Drive so I could play vs mode via Link-Up cable instead.
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The biggest head scratching for software was the absence of a Sonic the Hedgehog launch title.
I'm not sure it's just the higher ups not wanting a Sonic game but more to do with the core team in Japan wanting to do something different and the bosses thought that they could strike gold again (And I wouldn't be surprised if some business execs thought Sonic's popularity was fading.)
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Umm, Sonic 3D Blast was GOAT.
Pfffft hahahaa, Oh sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face.
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I remember everyone at school going nuts over Sonic R when it came out, even though no one had a Saturn.
Man, Sega dropped the fucking ball.
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I remember everyone at school going nuts over Sonic R when it came out, even though no one had a Saturn.
Man, Sega dropped the fucking ball.
I loved that fucking game, then I found out years later I was the only one, and everyone hated it. Nearly as much as Sonic Adventure 2.
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I loved that fucking game, then I found out years later I was the only one, and everyone hated it. Nearly as much as Sonic Adventure 2.
I actually know some folks who love Sonic R as much as I do. It's pretty fun.
But Sega should have released a "real" Sonic game. The hype was there.
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I actually know some folks who love Sonic R as much as I do. It's pretty fun.
But Sega should have released a "real" Sonic game. The hype was there.
True. Sonic was my favourite game/comic/cartoon at the time, but when my parents bought me a Saturn and said I could get one game with it, I went with VF2 instead of Sonic 3D Blast. I could just tell it was a B-Grade title. I did not regret my decision in the slightest.
It's funny actually, my favourite Sonic game on Saturn would probably still be Sonic Jam, which is just a compilation disc. I mean, it's the best Compilation disc I've ever seen, but still.
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It's funny actually, my favourite Sonic game on Saturn would probably still be Sonic Jam, which is just a compilation disc. I mean, it's the best Compilation disc I've ever seen, but still.
Sonic Jam was (until the release of Sonic 1&2 remastered) was the ultimate release of the classic Sonic series. I loved how the games were not simply emulated, but were re-written for the Saturn, allowing for different modes and improvements to be implemented. It's like the Criterion Collection equivalent of rereleasing a classic game.
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Where does Sonic X-treme and Sonic Mars fit in to all of this?
Did SOJ somehow believe that those games were going to materialize and that would make up for no Japanese development happening with Sonic?
Perhaps the real answer is that Saturn was dumped on SOA so I'm sure SOA didn't even know it was coming until it had already been in the hands of the Japanese teams forever. Then SOJ could point to the incompetence of the American teams to deliver a Saturn game that would make it a success in the West.
Sonic was never as huge in Japan as it was in the west so SOJ probably thought they could push the Saturn with new games and make the western markets look like fools in the process. I think a lot of these power plays had a lot to do with how well the Genesis did in the West while it floundered in Japan. The Saturn was going to show how SOJ was on top again.
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Where does Sonic X-treme and Sonic Mars fit in to all of this?
Did SOJ somehow believe that those games were going to materialize and that would make up for no Japanese development happening with Sonic?
Perhaps the real answer is that Saturn was dumped on SOA so I'm sure SOA didn't even know it was coming until it had already been in the hands of the Japanese teams forever. Then SOJ could point to the incompetence of the American teams to deliver a Saturn game that would make it a success in the West.
Sonic was never as huge in Japan as it was in the west so SOJ probably thought they could push the Saturn with new games and make the western markets look like fools in the process. I think a lot of these power plays had a lot to do with how well the Genesis did in the West while it floundered in Japan. The Saturn was going to show how SOJ was on top again.
That's exactly what had happened in a way. There was a power play between SOA and SOJ and SOJ ended up winning. TA can try to fool people in making you believe that SOJ wanted a SONIC game for Saturn. But let's remember this. SONIC ADVENTURE appeared during the DC's first year. ALEX KIDD when he was the mascot for Sega appeared on the MD during the launch year. When Sega went third party and started making games for new systems...SONIC appeared during their first launch year. But the Saturn which was Sega's followup to their most succesful console to date..the Genesis... No major Sonic game appeared at launch or its first year? And then TA has the audacity to come to me and say that SOJ wanted to get one out but left Sonic Team to it because they were tired of Sonic? A game that Sonic Team japan shared DEV duties with SOA with the last few titles? How the F could they be tired when they weren't working on the game soley by themselves? No SOJ didn't want to push Sonic for Saturn. Its as clear as day.
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Lets not forget that they prioritized Ristar over a Sonic game on Saturn as well.
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Lets not forget that they prioritized Ristar over a Sonic game on Saturn as well.
There's no point giving out that type of statement...JB..you have to use you're precious time showing the evidence about that so TA can just conviently ignore it or spin sentences out of context to stregthen his trolling arguments...
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The biggest head scratching for software was the absence of a Sonic the Hedgehog launch title.
I'm not sure it's just the higher ups not wanting a Sonic game but more to do with the core team in Japan wanting to do something different and the bosses thought that they could strike gold again (And I wouldn't be surprised if some business execs thought Sonic's popularity was fading.)
Then how would you explain SHINOBI's presence on the Saturn? Another character that also had a game in the launch year..of Genesis and Game Gear as well of Saturn. SHINOBI at that time was Sega's premiere action series..which had just as many titles in the genesis era and Master system. Yet SOJ didn't have a problem getting that our even though they didn't use the traditional team to make it. Yes the team may have wanted to do other titles...but SOJ who knew how popular Sonic was during that time and particularly in the period when the Saturn was going to be launced..witrh Sonic merchandise and a new cartoon series being made or renwed..would they just ignore their prize draw? Like i said Sonic may have been japanese at first but it became the symbol of everything they hated about SOA especially when SOA was the ones who made sure the character became the mascot for the company. As well as SOA teams making or co developing Sonic titles. So its easy for me to understand they just didn't want Sonic for a system that they wanted to prove could be succesful worldwide from SOJ with no one else involved.
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There's no point giving out that type of statement...JB..you have to use you're precious time showing the evidence about that so TA can just conviently ignore it or spin sentences out of context to stregthen his trolling arguments...
Here's some proof:
OXM: So tell me Ristar Developer, did Sega prioritise your game over a Sonic game on Saturn?
Team Ristar: Yes, yes they did indeed.
-Official Xbox Magazine (Australia), April 2001.
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Lets not forget that they prioritized Ristar over a Sonic game on Saturn as well.
Well that's a bit of own goal for those that say SEGA didn't support the Mega Drive late in its life, when they did and also the Main Sonic Team were working on Sonic and Knuckles at the time of Ristar also being in development. So SEGA made the mistake of backing the Mega Drive too much latter in its life at the expense of any sort of Sonic Team game early in for the Saturn.
They are the bosses. They could TELL Sonic Team whether they want another SONIC or they don't
That was the good old SEGA. That let its teams make the games they wanted to make and allowed lots of creativity . Sadly that is so absent from the current SEGA .
Do you think any of Nintendo's teams can say i don't wanna do this because i'm tired? NO
The big different with Nintendo to SEGA is that the EAD Team are given years to make each new Mario Game. In the space that it took Nintendo to make Snes Super Mario World II (Yoshi Island) which was some 4 years , SEGA made over 4 2D main Sonic games. In the space that it took from Mario Sunshine to Mario Galaxy , SEGA and Sonic Team made again 4 main 3D Sonic games
That is a massive difference that allows creative freedom even though they're working on the same IP. But if one looks at Nintendo now lots of gamers are getting bored on the same old stuff from Nintendo and its showing with the Wi U rubbish sales .
Funny if i said Sonic team..i said SOJ.
So Naka-san is SEGA Japan ?
Why do you keep lying? I have the transcript which i posted already.
Since when is posting actual interviews with the Sonic Team lying ? .
Nothing there proves you right
So Naka-san, Ohshima-san were lying in 1996 when they said they working on a Sega Saturn Sonic ? . Iizuka-san was lying when he said that Sonic Adv for the Saturn was scrapped and moved up to DC development ?
Oh you mean the multi seller VF1 and 2 and the Streetfighters that took the western saturn audience by storm
Well for starters Street Fighter II sales trounce those of Enteral Champions and for many its remains the best VS fighter ever made, and in sales Mortal Kombat 1 and II old sold better than Enteral Champions . Given that the Saturn already had the sequels to those games, given that the Saturn had for many the best 3D fighter ever made in the shape of VF II. I fail to see how EC could have turned around the Saturn fortunes in the West . Enteral Champions made zero impact and zero difference on the Mega CD . The Saturn had more than enough AAA 3D and 2D fighters
Its even PLAIN to see when SOA decides to create two spin off games and several others after the fact including merchandise.
Spin off's means you have a massive seller does it ? . I'll try and remember that the next time people try and make out Viewtiful Joe or Jet Set Radio were massive sellers . Merchandise also means you have a massive hit on your hands ?, I'll try and remember that when people make out that NiGHTS were massive multi million sellers .
The biggest head scratching for software was the absence of a Sonic the Hedgehog launch title.
There was never any hope of the Sonic Team having any sort of launch game ready since they were working in S&K just before the Saturn hit Japan . And if one looks at the history of companies trying to get their main IP ready for launch on new Hardware then only Nintendo came out well and even they couldn't get a main 3D Mario game ready for the Cube or the Wii . SONY couldn't get the like of either GT or God Of War ready for the PS3 lauch, MS didn't have HALO ready to go for 360 or the Xbox One and even SEGA its self could get the likes of Alex Kidd ready for the MD launch, so why should have it been any different for the Saturn ?.
The big mistake was made in not making it clear a new Sonic Game was in development and would come and I would have just ported Sonic CD to the Saturn ready for the USA/Pal launch (with no slowdown and full screen FMV) and just include Sonic the Arcade as a bonus and that should have been enough for a launch game imo
Perhaps the real answer is that Saturn was dumped on SOA so I'm sure SOA didn't even know it was coming until it
SOA knew full well about the Saturn very early in, Not only did they set up the Saturn Away Team in 1993 for Saturn development , SEGA America were the 1st to show off a Mock up Saturn and the 1st to show off Saturn software running in the CES 1994 game show
-
That was the good old SEGA. That let its teams make the games they wanted to
make and allowed lots of creativity . Sadly that is so absent from the current
SEGA .
No that was the petty Sega Japan that went along with their team because they didn't want to make a Sonic game or any title connected with SOA and Genesis. It just fitted with their motives...
The big different with Nintendo to SEGA is that the EAD Team are given years to
make each new Mario Game. In the space that it took Nintendo to make Snes
Super Mario World II (Yoshi Island) which was some 4 years , SEGA made
over 4 2D main Sonic games. In the space that it took from Mario Sunshine to
Mario Galaxy , SEGA and Sonic Team made again 4 main 3D Sonic games
So what? That doesn't excuse the fact that Sega had other titles ready for Saturn. SHINOIB even frigging TEMPO got a Saturn outing. Sega has always been noted for making solid games with record timing..so yes while Nintendo prepares for this type of thing...Sega should have done the same since as you kept harking that Saturn was the most important system to them..yet the character that could have set strong sales in the west was nowhere in sight...
That is a massive difference that allows creative freedom even though
they're working on the same IP. But if one looks at Nintendo now lots of gamers
are getting bored on the same old stuff from Nintendo and its showing with the
Wi U rubbish sales .
Not at the time they weren't. But let's keep comparing different game eras..shall we...
So Naka-san is SEGA Japan ?
God you are so ignorant...
Since when is posting actual interviews with the Sonic Team lying ? .
So Naka-san, Ohshima-san were lying in 1996 when they said they working on a
Sega Saturn Sonic ? . Iizuka-san was lying when he said that Sonic Adv for the
Saturn was scrapped and moved up to DC development ?
You mean in the same magazine when he said he never had a Saturn Sonic game planned...and the evidence that supports one of his LAST interviews with that magazine....What do you think? No wait we already know...you can't...
Well for starters Street Fighter II sales trounce those of Enteral Champions and
for many its remains the best VS fighter ever made, and in sales Mortal Kombat
1 and II old sold better than Enteral Champions . Given that the Saturn
already had the sequels to those games, given that the Saturn had for many the
best 3D fighter ever made in the shape of VF II. I fail to see how EC could have
turned around the Saturn fortunes in the West . Enteral Champions made zero
impact and zero difference on the Mega CD . The Saturn had more than enough AAA
3D and 2D fighters
Not on the MD it didn't. SF was old hat by the time the MD version came out. and MK only reached half the number EC made. EC was the best selling fighting game on Genesis. As i already demonstrated in two topics relating to this here and somewhere else. So let's try not to spin lies here.
Second by the time EC came out on MCD that system was on the way out..so hardly an excuse but it sold enough for a guarantee from SOA to produce a Saturn sequel.
Third. None of the 3D fighters made any impact for Sega on the US and UK Saturn. So again let's not make things up eh.
Spin off's means you have a massive seller does it ? . I'll try and remember
that the next time people try and make out Viewtiful Joe or Jet Set Radio were
massive sellers . Merchandise also means you have a massive hit on your hands ?,
I'll try and remember that when people make out that NiGHTS were massive multi
million sellers .
Yes let's compare two things which has no basis in comparison. SOA made EC. They weren't in the buisness to create spin offs of their games. When EC sales came in they had a very strong hit on their hands that they wanted to exploit and they went full tilt with it. But keep making up nonsense on two things that has nothing to do with the other from two diferent companies and two different eras.
There was never any hope of the Sonic Team having any sort of launch game
ready since they were working in S&K just before the Saturn hit Japan . And
if one looks at the history of companies trying to get their main IP ready for
launch on new Hardware then only Nintendo came out well and even they couldn't
get a main 3D Mario game ready for the Cube or the Wii . SONY couldn't get the
like of either GT or God Of War ready for the PS3 lauch, MS didn't have HALO
ready to go for 360 or the Xbox One and even SEGA its self could get the likes
of Alex Kidd ready for the MD launch, so why should have it been any different
for the Saturn ?.
Yawn excuses excuses..anything to excuse SOJ for ignoring Sonic and treating it like shit.
The big mistake was made in not making it clear a new Sonic Game was in
development and would come and I would have just ported Sonic CD to the Saturn
ready for the USA/Pal launch (with no slowdown and full screen FMV) and just
include Sonic the Arcade as a bonus and that should have been enough for a
launch game imo
SOA knew full well about the Saturn very
early in, Not only did they set up the Saturn Away Team in 1993 for Saturn
development , SEGA America were the 1st to show off a Mock up Saturn and
the 1st to show off Saturn software running in the CES 1994 game show
Doing the job SOJ failed to do..but SOJ still fucked things up for them....But you still blame Kalinske for screwing things up at E3 when he had no real choice....thanks to SOJ...typical
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There's a difference between Sega supporting its console late in its life and deciding to make Ristar over a Saturn launch game - or even a Sonic game in general. I don't fault them for making Ristar - I'm just saying they sort of dropped the ball big time. They managed to make Burning Rangers and Sonic Adventure simultaneously.
Why are we even debating this? I don't think anyone here actually believe Sonic Team didnt fuck up. We can also look at Naka refusing to give his engine over to STI.
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Sega Japan that went along with their team because they didn't want to make a Sonic game or any title connected with SOA
You mean the SOJ that flew in Japanese staff to work in America and make Sonic II, III ? The same SOJ that green looking over the scrapped project Sonic for the Saturn, allowed and green light the likes of Sonic 3D Island ,Sonic Jam , Sonic R and even let its own AAA In-House studio make Sonic the Fighters ?
Keep the comedy gold coming .
[size=78%]So what?[/size]
Giving the teams years to make each new game, not only allows more new gameplay idea's to be made, new engines to be made , but also builds up anticipation between each new game and makes they feel not overused for the fans .
Not at the time they weren't.
Yoshi Island not only looked radically different to Mario World it played a lot different too . Mario Galaxy again looked much different and still felt and played fresh over Sunshine . EAD allow the Mario Team years to make each new major entry and its shows in the gameplay dept .
You mean in the same magazine when he said he never had a Saturn Sonic game planned
Naka-san never said that and I guess when he was talking of Sonic looking amazing on the Saturn and we can show you graphics you wouldn't think possible on the Saturn , Naka-san was lying ?
Not on the MD it didn't. SF was old hat by the time the MD version came out.
It was the best Vs Fighter around and that's overlooking the amazing sales of Mortal Kombat 1 & II on the MD . Given that both have sequels on the Saturn and made no difference, I fail to see how EC would have done any better , more so when it flopped on the Mega CD.
[/size] When EC sales came in they had a very strong hit on their hands that they wanted to exploit and they went full tilt with it
[size=78%]
[/size]If a game sells well you tend to get a sequel ready to go right away, not make a spin off . But looking over that given the Saturn was the machine to own of 3D and 2D fighters was your thing, I fail to see what major difference EC would have made . Tbh I didn't agree with the move, but I was more pissed off with no Streets Of Rage IV for the Saturn with massive 2D sprites and huge bosses ect ..[size=78%]
Yawn excuses excuses.
No its called the true . Making a new game for the Saturn and PS would take over a year . Given the Saturn game out in Nov 1994 less that a year after the Sonic Team finished S&K . Sonic Team were never going to have any sort of Saturn game ready .
hey managed to make Burning Rangers and Sonic Adventure simultaneously.
That Only really happened after Sonic Team were allowed and given their own CS Team to help with development, where they merged with the Sega Rally CS Team .
We can also look at Naka refusing to give his engine over to STI.
Well no doubt he was using the engine for his own Sonic and really STI should never have needed to ask anyway to help them with a engine , after STI spent over a year developing the game.
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You mean the SOJ that flew in Japanese staff to work in America and make Sonic
II, III ? The same SOJ that green looking over the scrapped project Sonic for
the Saturn, allowed and green light the likes of Sonic 3D Island ,Sonic Jam ,
Sonic R and even let its own AAA In-House studio make Sonic the Fighters ?
Why are you mentioning A genesis games? Stick to what happened during the SATURN era. Your spinning never stops does it.
And really two side games and a title from the west are not MAJOR sonic titles. So keep proving me correct why don't you...
Keep the comedy gold coming .
Yes making you look foolish is what's keeping the comedy around here...
Giving
the teams years to make each new game, not only allows more new gameplay idea's
to be made, new engines to be made , but also builds up anticipation between
each new game and makes they feel not overused for the fans .
Excuses excuses excuses....It wasn't THE TIME to take a break. SONIC was still a new character..SOJ should have cemented his place among the gamers by making a major sonic game for saturn showcasing ALL of its strengths. But SOJ as i said couldn't be bothered.
Yoshi Island not only looked radically different to Mario World it played a lot
different too . Mario Galaxy again looked much different and still felt and
played fresh over Sunshine . EAD allow the Mario Team years to make each new
major entry and its shows in the gameplay dept .
The point is Nintendo always has a major Mario game that showcases the system READY. Sega when they finally have a character people identified their brand with..couldn't be bothered. But keep making excuses for SOJ's bungling...
Naka-san never said that and I guess when he was talking of Sonic looking
amazing on the Saturn and we can show you graphics you wouldn't think possible
on the Saturn , Naka-san was lying ?
Sonic 3d was a demo it wasn't SONIC ADVENTURE as Naka san said that. it was for DC and always was. You stop lying.
It was the best Vs Fighter around and that's overlooking the amazing sales of
Mortal Kombat 1 & II on the MD . Given that both have sequels on the Saturn
and made no difference, I fail to see how EC would have done any better , more
so when it flopped on the Mega CD.
MK MK2 and SFCE only reached a million in sales on MD. EC went beyond that. Keep spinning the facts. and ignore what happened..oh wait you wouldn't know what happened would you since you weren't playing games back then...
If a game sells well you tend to get a
sequel ready to go right away, not make a spin off . But looking over that given
the Saturn was the machine to own of 3D and 2D fighters was your thing, I fail
to see what major difference EC would have made . Tbh I didn't agree with the
move, but I was more pissed off with no Streets Of Rage IV for the Saturn with
massive 2D sprites and huge bosses ect ..
And that's why you are an idiot. If you want to keep you're user base you bring titles that was popular from the previous system to the next one. Sega did that with the MS by bringing PHANTASY STAR..WONDERBOY,THUNDERBLADE..MONCO GP,SHINOBI,ALEX KIDD and a few others to the MD early in its first year. Now why didn't ANY of the genesis games make it onto the saturn other than a few titles that weren't mega hits? Why didn't SOJ think it was necessary to get the consumers they had gained in the west by porting the titles that was popular on Genesis. Why was it the ones that were left out happened to be the SOA influenced or made titles? Why was the SOA development team relugated to PC only software while their console teams and studios were dismantled? You CAN'T answer that can you without coming up with more blasted spin and lies. SOJ screwed over SOA and you KNOW it. You're bootlicking disgusts me.
No its called the true . Making a new game for the Saturn and PS would take over
a year . Given the Saturn game out in Nov 1994 less that a year after the Sonic
Team finished S&K . Sonic Team were never going to have any sort of Saturn
game ready .
Sonic team would have had a bigger team by that time which they did when they made NIGHTS. And it goes to show how stupid SOJ was by not geting them ready if it was true..which probably isn't. SOJ wasn't intrested in carrying on Sonic as a proper game..he was more used as a figurehead like Disney used Mickey Mouse while they activly tried to create games to replace him. Deal with it.
That Only really happened after Sonic Team were allowed and given
their own CS Team to help with development, where they merged with the Sega
Rally CS Team .
Oh but they couldn't do it before because SOJ didn't think it was that important..bar the fact that following a succesful console like Genesis needed all hands on deck to maintain it.
Well no doubt he was using the engine for his own Sonic and really STI
should never have needed to ask anyway to help them with a engine , after STI
spent over a year developing the game.
SOA had no choice..they saw that they needed a major SONIC game...SOJ didn't seem to care. At last someone within Sega knew the importance of the character...What's the biggest joke is Sonic Team ended up ripping off XTREME with LOST WORLDS anyway...
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There's a difference between Sega supporting its console late in its life and deciding to make Ristar over a Saturn launch game - or even a Sonic game in general. I don't fault them for making Ristar - I'm just saying they sort of dropped the ball big time. They managed to make Burning Rangers and Sonic Adventure simultaneously.
Why are we even debating this? I don't think anyone here actually believe Sonic Team didnt fuck up. We can also look at Naka refusing to give his engine over to STI.
Exactly and were still debating this because one person around here can't accept the truth and has to consistently troll other topics and bring it up time and time again in order to get the last word on his silly propaganda. History says it all..the evidence is plain to see. SOJ messed up and they just was not intrested in creating a big sonic game or continuing titles made popular by SOA. SOJ wanted to prove that they and not a subsidary could make a sega console popular worldwide...by using just their own titles that were all new and unfamiliar to most of the american public...and still are to this day. That's what happens when you don't have Kalinske and the marketing team to tell the world what games you have. And TA thinks that Sonic 1 sold itself..what a joke...
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Why are you mentioning A genesis games? Stick to what happened during the SATURN era
Sigh.. Because part of the main Team were over in America working on Sonic games, and SOJ flew more staff over to make the likes of Sonic II and III on the MD .
Yes making you look foolish is what's keeping the comedy around here
No you're the one that likes to make out SOJ wanted to kill Sonic and was ashamed of him in the Saturn era . Looking over Sonic image was used in Saturn manuals , looking over how SEGA Japan allowed Sonic 3D, Sonic Island, Sonic Jam to be used and the like . SEGA Japan now only then gave the go-ahead from a main Sega Sonic then even allowed their elite AAA Team: AM#2 and their elite developer Producer/Director ; Yu Suzuki to work on their own Sonic game .
So on almost every level you are wrong.
The point is Nintendo always has a major Mario game that showcases the system READY
Sigh... They didn't for the Gamecube, nor did Nintendo do it for the Wii and I'll hardly call New Super Mario Bros a showcase for the Wii U either .
Sonic 3d was a demo it wasn't SONIC ADVENTURE
Sigh... It was to be a main game and you do not sigh up all the Sonic Team to start producing a demo (more so a year the lauch of the machine ) and you do not send the Sonic Team on a holiday to S.America in 1996 for the fun of it. It quite clear it was the start of the Sonic Adv project and that was also confirmed by Sonic Adv director.
MK MK2 and SFCE only reached a million in sales on MD.
MK was the one of the best selling games on the MD , it topped the charts for weeks, something which EC never ever managed . Looking over that , this so called wonder game made zero impact on the Mega CD and flopped . So why do you think EC would have done any better on the Saturn is beyond me , more so when the Saturn already had the best AAA 3D and 2D fighters money could buy . I didn't like or agree with the move, but it was hardly going to be a system seller
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Sigh.. Because part of the main Team were over in America working on Sonic games, and SOJ flew more staff over to make the likes of Sonic II and III on the MD .
Sign....were talking about SATURN and SATURN only. Geez...
No you're the one that likes to make out SOJ wanted to kill Sonic and was ashamed of him in the Saturn era . Looking over Sonic image was used in Saturn manuals , looking over how SEGA Japan allowed Sonic 3D, Sonic Island, Sonic Jam to be used and the like . SEGA Japan now only then gave the go-ahead from a main Sega Sonic then even allowed their elite AAA Team: AM#2 and their elite developer Producer/Director ; Yu Suzuki to work on their own Sonic game .
What like Mickey Mouse was just an image for Disney but no actual cartoon was made for him in decades? Yes that's really pushing Sonic isn't it? A bunch of side games mainly from western developers..an arcade title that many didn't play and a main SONIC title that would have helped the system MIA because Sonic Team was tired. You keep contridicting yourself. Either ST wanted to make one or they didn't. You can't have both TA.
So on almost every level you are wrong.
You mean you are.
Sigh... They didn't for the Gamecube, nor did Nintendo do it for the Wii and I'll hardly call New Super Mario Bros a showcase for the Wii U either .
Really? Because MARIO SUNSHINE was touted as a big Mario game wasn't it..oh and Mario galaxy was as well. They were ready to be shown during their respective trade shows and released within their consoles first year. Mario Sunshine came out 9 months after the launch of the GC. Since the Wii came out in December 2006 and Mario Galaxy appeared in November 2007 that's still within the first year period. So try again mate. All the saturn had was stupid Sonic side games that didn't demonstrate the power of the saturn.
Sigh... It was to be a main game and you do not sigh up all the Sonic Team to start producing a demo (more so a year the lauch of the machine ) and you do not send the Sonic Team on a holiday to S.America in 1996 for the fun of it. It quite clear it was the start of the Sonic Adv project and that was also confirmed by Sonic Adv director.
No it never was and you know it. Stop spinning..you lost on that one. Geez...what some fanboys will cling onto...
MK was the one of the best selling games on the MD , it topped the charts for weeks, something which EC never ever managed . Looking over that , this so called wonder game made zero impact on the Mega CD and flopped . So why do you think EC would have done any better on the Saturn is beyond me , more so when the Saturn already had the best AAA 3D and 2D fighters money could buy . I didn't like or agree with the move, but it was hardly going to be a system seller
Nonsense. The sales from america proved that it wasn't and those were the final sales. So you can keep quoting bull all you want on this it doesn't stop the fact that the game sold that many units on MD. And again you fail to grasp the fact that EC was popular enough to get gamers onto the system because it was a familiar name. It would have HELPED the system rather than hinder it. Keep goiong on about the best 3D game fighters the saturn had ..history proved that NO ONE CARED in the states or the UK and the rest of Europe. Having the best games doesn't sell when NO ONE knows about them.
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Sign....were talking about SATURN and SATURN only
1994 is the Saturn era , the system came out in Nov 1994 and in 1994 most of the main Sonic Team were over in America and just finished work on S&K.
What like Mickey Mouse was just an image for Disney but no actual cartoon was made for him in decades
I guess so and even Sonic had cartoon series in the Saturn era . You can't blame both the staff of SEGA or Dinsey for wanting to get away from established IP and try new concepts and new IP .
.an arcade title that many didn't play
Looking over the point that SOJ not only green light the title, but allowed it number development team and producer to work on the title . So SOJ were hardly ashamed to use SONIC .
Really? Because MARIO SUNSHINE was touted as a big Mario game wasn't
GameCube came out in Sep 2001 , Mario Sunshine came out in July 2002 . Hardly what anyone would call a lauch title or a game ready to soon after the system launch . With Wii It came out in Dec 2006 and Mario Galaxy in Nov 2007. Again hardly a lauch game or a game ready to do soon after launch. SEGA in early 1996 was already saying it had Sonic games in development for the Saturn .
Nonsense. The sales from america proved that it wasn't and those were the final sales.
MK 1 and II were huge sellers and topped the charts for weeks . I've yet to see you provide any proof that EC sold millions of copies . Looking over that , but the time of the PS and Saturn, even the likes of MK were seen as old had and people were looking to the likes of Tekken as the future . So I fail to see what difference EC would have made myself .
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1994 is the Saturn era , the system came out in Nov 1994 and in 1994 most of the main Sonic Team were over in America and just finished work on S&K.
Yet were talking about Saturn development only. SONIC 2 wasn't made in 94 which you pointed out in your initial post.
I guess so and even Sonic had cartoon series in the Saturn era . You can't blame both the staff of SEGA or Dinsey for wanting to get away from established IP and try new concepts and new IP .
I can when they never did it before.
Looking over the point that SOJ not only green light the title, but allowed it number development team and producer to work on the title . So SOJ were hardly ashamed to use SONIC .
What point. They never did because if they really wanted the game to happen none of the bs would have happened. Stop excusing their behavior for gods sake.SOJ had no intrest in SONIC which you just acknowledged in your last quote and now you are backtracking yet again. Geez..
GameCube came out in Sep 2001 , Mario Sunshine came out in July 2002 . Hardly what anyone would call a lauch title or a game ready to soon after the system launch . With Wii It came out in Dec 2006 and Mario Galaxy in Nov 2007. Again hardly a lauch game or a game ready to do soon after launch. SEGA in early 1996 was already saying it had Sonic games in development for the Saturn .
That's its launch year/first year which i said from the start. The First year of the console is still its launch year because its the year the system establishes itself in the market. But Keep on spinning. The point is that Nintendo had the games ready within the first year of the console. Sega didn't have any sonic games until 96 and then they were poor excuses. Cheez twisting your crap again.
MK 1 and II were huge sellers and topped the charts for weeks . I've yet to see you provide any proof that EC sold millions of copies . Looking over that , but the time of the PS and Saturn, even the likes of MK were seen as old had and people were looking to the likes of Tekken as the future . So I fail to see what difference EC would have made myself .
Keep repeating it....i keep proving it....
The difference is that people would have brought the system if they knew EC and other genesis games were coming for Saturn.
The UK isn't the world. And these are based on american sales.EC had tremendous sales. MK and MK only sold a million in number. Worldwide that's different. But in the states that isn't hardly tremendous. So stop spinning.
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Yet were talking about Saturn development only.
Saturn software development would have started in 1994 , But the main Sonic Team were in America and putting the finished coding touches to S&K and so would have been in no position to get any sort of Sonic game ready for the Saturn launch in Japan ,or the Saturn launch in the USA.
I can when they never did it before
The old SEGA always liked to try new concepts and IP . After over 5 main Sonic games in little over 4 years and with brand new Hardware one can see why any Team would like to try something new.
They never did because if they really wanted the game to happen none of the bs would have happened
If you like want to make out you're somehow ashamed or want to kill a IP - Then the last thing you do is to not only use Sonic image for the whole SEGA brand, you don't also allow Sonic Island, Sonic Jam, Sonic R and Sonic the Fighters to be made for starters.
That's its launch year/first year which i said from the star
The First year of the console is still its launch year because its the year the system establishes itself in the market
No spinning at all , just say that even Nintendo doesn't always get Mario ready for its systems launches too.
The difference is that people would have brought the system if they knew EC and other genesis games were coming for Saturn.
Yet EC champions made no difference to the Mega CD and its not like mega established fighters like Street Fighter and MK made any real impact to either the PS or the Saturn sales and I highly, highly doubt a 3D version of EC could have topped anything Tekken or VF 2 could do for starters. Looking back in the sales charts inthe likes of MEGA and the like its not like EC was a sales monster (after a decent start it dropped quickly from the charts) . A far bigger screw up was SEGA America not getting a decent NFL game and making another Joe Montana game ready to go early in
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Saturn software development would have started in 1994 , But the main Sonic Team were in America and putting the finished coding touches to S&K and so would have been in no position to get any sort of Sonic game ready for the Saturn launch in Japan ,or the Saturn launch in the USA.The old SEGA always liked to try new concepts and IP .
And the old SEGA always made sure their mascot or brand franchises made it to the next console within launch or first year. Keep giving excuses for SOJ management...Sonic Team could have easily rolled out a game for 95 but they didn't. Somehow KNUCKLES CHAOTIX was more important.
After over 5 main Sonic games in little over 4 years and with brand new Hardware one can see why any Team would like to try something new.If you like want to make out you're somehow ashamed or want to kill a IP - Then the last thing you do is to not only use Sonic image for the whole SEGA brand, you don't also allow Sonic Island, Sonic Jam, Sonic R and Sonic the Fighters to be made for starters.No spinning at all , just say that even Nintendo doesn't always get Mario ready for its systems launches too.Yet EC champions made no difference to the Mega CD and its not like mega established fighters like Street Fighter and MK made any real impact to either the PS or the Saturn sales and I highly, highly doubt a 3D version of EC could have topped anything Tekken or VF 2 could do for starters. Looking back in the sales charts inthe likes of MEGA and the like its not like EC was a sales monster (after a decent start it dropped quickly from the charts) . A far bigger screw up was SEGA America not getting a decent NFL game and making another Joe Montana game ready to go early in
I said it sold 2 million units. EC did that. If you had any clue about sales then you'd know exactly how it managed to get that number.Keep using VF2 as an excuse..A GAME THAT DIDN'T DRAW ANY EUROPEAN OR AMERICAN GAMERS OUTSIDE OF SEGA FANS onto Saturn. Always missing the point. No one cared that the saturn had the better fighters. Most people didn't care about the saturn at all. There was nothing on the saturn that they could familise themselves with. But keep missing the point.
Second don't give me the team crap. SOJ are the bosses and they can say what they desire or want. They sure had no problem in denying a 2 million plus Genesis series like EC to get a Saturn release. And you are trying to convince everyone that SOJ was so great and understandable bosses that they let Sonic Team make a new game because they were tired of Sonic. RUBBISH. SOJ didn't want SONIC on their system. ST excuse to make a new game was convenient for them at that time. No one in their right mind apart from SOJ passes on a mascot character that can draw you many consumers to your system..after years of being ignored in two major markets that flock to you're 16 bit system and made you profitable at the same time..because the team wanted to make a new game. Arrogance was a word you used before..the arrogance of SOJ management disabling SOA so they could prove that they could make a system more popular worldwide than their subsidiary...by rejecting everything that was popular on that 16 bit system..is astounding and near criminal.Incompetence and hatred was the problem not any benevolence for sonic team's being tired.
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I said it sold 2 million units. EC did that
Yeah... You said . You've never provided a link or a sales chart from the era to back up your claims .
Keep using VF2 as an excuse..A GAME THAT DIDN'T DRAW ANY EUROPEAN OR AMERICAN GAMERS OUTSIDE OF SEGA FANS onto Saturn
And if one of the best 3D fighters ever made and one of the best looking and most impressive bits of coding on the Saturn couldn't get more fighting fans on the Saturn, you really think EC would have made any difference ?
And you are trying to convince everyone that SOJ was so great and understandable bosses that they let Sonic Team make a new game because they were tired of Sonic.
Well for starters it's what the NiGHTS team said and for another... lots of Teams will want to make new IP and do different things . God Of War a huge IP for SONY and sometimes even the face of SONY PS but after 4 main games and 2 spins off's I think the Team are ready to move on to something new, don't you ?. Naughty Dog could have made countless sequels to Crash or Jak but again they've moved on new IP and I bet you, after the 4th Drakes will be the last Drakes game they'll ever make , even BUNGiE got bored of HALO and wanted to try new IP and make something a bit different. All that's looking over that there was a Sonic game in production for the Saturn, no doubt spired on with Mario 64 great reception - Which I have no doubt, made SOJ saw it screwed up and how it needed to get a main Sonic game in production.
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Yeah... You said . You've never provided a link or a sales chart from the era to back up your claims .
Er yes i have. You just ignored them Lie you keep doing when other people show evidence to you.But i won't bother anymore. Been there done that..
And if one of the best 3D fighters ever made and one of the best looking and most impressive bits of coding on the Saturn couldn't get more fighting fans on the Saturn, you really think EC would have made any difference ? Well for starters
Yes for starters. I'm talking about Genesis games in general you silly bint. Not just EC. if EC and other genesis games had proper Saturn games from ECCO to SOR to a proper SONIC title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in. And that way as a first party Sega could easily get those gamers to go and buy the 3D titles.
it's what the NiGHTS team said and for another... lots of Teams will want to make new IP and do different things .
So frigging WHAT? They are not the management. The Management runs the company and are supposed to know whats good for business. You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character's games because you feel sorry for the team doing too many titles of that character...that is not how you run a business..especially when the demand for that character was still hot. The Management tells the developers what to do. They decide whether a game proposal will get turned into an actual game or not. The team doesn'tr run the company the company does. Any bloody excuse to give sympathy for SOJ while bashing Kalinske and SOA who made Sega popular worldwide on things that SOJ was to blame..makes me sick. You make me sick with you're bloody lies and spin.
All that's looking over that there was a Sonic game in production for the Saturn, no doubt spired on with Mario 64 great reception - Which I have no doubt, made SOJ saw it screwed up and how it needed to get a main Sonic game in production.
No TA there NEVER was a SONIC game in productionj. That was proved in another quote that i provided of remarks fromNaka himself.
Actually it was Crash Bandicoot which woke them up..not just Mario World 64. Since Bandicoot was basically ripping off Sonic in plenty of ways..and they realized their mistake too late.
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Er yes i have
You have never produced a link or scan that shows EC sold over 2 million . I bet the real sales of the game are closer to a million .
title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in.
Ecco now ? The game sold rubbish on the DC and didn't help the DC at all , so I fail to see what good it would have done the Saturn, more so as it would have been a real hard game to make on the Saturn, due to it's issues with 3D transparent effects. SEGA Japan and America should have made sure they had a Joe Montana and a main Sonic game early in for the Saturn- they were by far bigger screw ups and games that were proven sellers.
So frigging WHAT? They are not the management
It's important to let your team have freedom and be able to do some new stuff . And tbh the management don't play games but if the Sonic Team came to them and said we got a great new idea for a game, we think it could be the next Sonic . One could understand why it was greenlighted straight away . The mistake made was no also making sure another Sonic game was also in production in Japan every early in .
You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character'
Half the world ? . SEGA didn't have half the gaming market let alone the world. Looking over that the Sonic III and S&K sold nothing like as well as Sonic 1 and II - So that would have had a bearing in SEGA plans and the feeling that the Team needed something new . Crash Bandicoot sold in ridiculous numbers on the PS , yet Naughty Dog wanted to try new things . God of war 1,II III are multi million sellers yet the team now seem to what to try something new and there's no sign of any new GOW coming to the PS4
No TA there NEVER was a SONIC game in productionj
They was, sadly it only came into life at 1996 and be the little more than a year latter it became clear to everyone the Saturn wasn't going to beat the PS and it be better to make it for the new system .
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You have never produced a link or scan that shows EC sold over 2 million . I bet the real sales of the game are closer to a million .title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in.
2Million end of. And i unlike you have provided links..only for you to pretend they never exist. Just like you have done with other posters that have the misfortune to debate with you.
Ecco now ? The game sold rubbish on the DC and didn't help the DC at all , so I fail to see what good it would have done the Saturn, more so as it would have been a real hard game to make on the Saturn, due to it's issues with 3D transparent effects. SEGA Japan and America should have made sure they had a Joe Montana and a main Sonic game early in for the Saturn- they were by far bigger screw ups and games that were proven sellers.
The DC didn't EXIST after Genesis. Ecco around the time of the genesis and Saturn was one of Sega's well known titles. No doubt it would have been one of the attractions for consumers to move to Saturn if it had a sequel on that system. Using the DC sales when the DCA overall sold crap is hardly evidence to back you up...
The mistake made was no also making sure another Sonic game was also in production in Japan every early in .
And so you admit it was a mistake..i call it deliberate.
Half the world ? . SEGA didn't have half the gaming market let alone the world.
Wrong again as usual. But you'll soon know why later on this week...
They was, sadly it only came into life at 1996 and be the little more than a year latter it became clear to everyone the Saturn wasn't going to beat the PS and it be better to make it for the new system .
Too late to do anything about anything....
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2Million end of
Prove it and a link or a scan will do .
Ecco around the time of the genesis and Saturn was one of Sega's well known titles
Ecco wasn't that big of a hit on the Mega Drive and just sold in very decent numbers . Now if Ecco (despite being quite brilliant on the DC) couldn't help the DC, I fail to see how it would have had much of an impact on the Saturn and give the issues with Saturn 3D and transparent effects one would also have to question what so of Ecco game SEGA could do .
And so you admit it was a mistake
Always said it was a mistake not getting Sonic ready in early in. I would have made sure to Sonic CD along with Sonic the Arcade game ready to go at the time . Also think it was a mistake not making SOR IV for the Saturn and that there was no Joe Montana game ready early in for the Saturn (huge mistake by SOA)
Wrong again as usual
So there's a SEGA console that sold over 2 billion units ?. Keep it up lol and it was Nintendo who always had the biggest overall market share than SEGA and every Nintendo home console sold better than SEGA's fact . So sorry SEGA never had half the market, never mind half the home console market to it's self .
Too late to do anything about anything
After FF 7 demo shipping in Japan and PS sales going into orbit and smashing the Saturn (even in Japan) pretty much too late and no doubt when all work on Saturn versions of Shenmue, Sonic Adv was dropped and moved up to DC
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Prove it and a link or a scan will do .
I have done. Again keep spinning..i'm not going to post anything on someone who is ignorant..especially fragile material like that.
Ecco wasn't that big of a hit on the Mega Drive and just sold in very decent numbers . Now if Ecco (despite being quite brilliant on the DC) couldn't help the DC, I fail to see how it would have had much of an impact on the Saturn and give the issues with Saturn 3D and transparent effects one would also have to question what so of Ecco game SEGA could do .
Again contrasting an era where there were gamers who knew ECCO compared to an era where no one knew anything about games..you know the era that you came into gaming..the PSX/SONY nightmare. Doesn't prove you're ridiculous point. But not surprised..you're generation of gamers were never known for their intelligence...
Always said it was a mistake not getting Sonic ready in early in.
No you never.
I would have made sure to Sonic CD along with Sonic the Arcade game ready to go at the time . Also think it was a mistake not making SOR IV for the Saturn and that there was no Joe Montana game ready early in for the Saturn (huge mistake by SOA)
Oh goody another port! ::) And funny how you backtrack on MONTANA when i said the same thing ages back you gave an epic post why it couldn't have happened because he sued SOA. Geez...hypocrisy...
So there's a SEGA console that sold over 2 billion units ?. Keep it up lol and it was Nintendo who always had the biggest overall market share than SEGA and every Nintendo home console sold better than SEGA's fact . So sorry SEGA never had half the market, never mind half the home console market to it's self .
2 billion? i never said such a thing...again the lying liar comes out with more bull..keep it up...mate..its only going to look worse for you at the end of the week...When your lying and lack of knowledge will show you up once again...
After FF 7 demo shipping in Japan and PS sales going into orbit and smashing the Saturn (even in Japan) pretty much too late and no doubt when all work on Saturn versions of Shenmue, Sonic Adv was dropped and moved up to DC
SONIC ADVENTURE did not and i repeat DID NOT EXIST for Saturn. Yuji Naka said so in the same magazine that you tried to prove me wrong in. Yet you could not since it was the more relevant interview. The arrogance of someone who tries to say he knows more than an actual developer who WORKED on the game is astounding.
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On the issue of Eternal Champions, I haven't any idea how many it sold total, or whether these are accurate, but here are some old charts from NeoGaf.
Bare in mind, EC came out in August of 93, when Sega was at its height (ever).
Jan 1994: Etetnal Champions was the No2 game of the month, selling about 65k.
Feb 1994: EC at no4, with 40
March: EC at no11 with 30k
April: EC at no18 with about 14k
May: EC at no24 w/ 9k
June: EC at 19 w/ 12.5k
July: EC at 28 w/ 10k
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454 (http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454)
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I have done.
No All you done is this quote your self and put in the figure of 2 million . You have never produced a link or scan that shows who much the game sold at retail .
Again contrasting an era where there were gamers who knew ECCO compared to an era where no one knew anything about games..you know the era that you came into gaming.
I got into gaming in 1985 with the ZX Spectrum 128+ and Ecco was only a modest hit on the Mega Drive and I gather didn't do well in the USA really . So I doubt it would have had much impact on the Saturn and they you have all the issues if the Saturn trouble with 3D transparent effects.
No you never
Always have and like I always said I would have just got Sonic CD on the Saturn with Full screen FMV no slowdown and a improved bonus stage and to me that would have been enough for the USA/Pal launch.
2 billion? i never said such a thing...again the lying liar
Do you even know what you type ?
You said ...
You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character
Half the world in 1994/5 would have be around 2 billion people . So no I don't lie ,like you and looking over that SEGA never had half of the worlds gaming market either , Nintendo always had better worldwide market share that SEGA through out SEGA entire history as a console hardware manufacturer.
SONIC ADVENTURE did not and i repeat DID NOT EXIST for Saturn
It did has confirmed by Games Director !!!.
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On the issue of Eternal Champions, I haven't any idea how many it sold total, or whether these are accurate, but here are some old charts from NeoGaf.
Bare in mind, EC came out in August of 93, when Sega was at its height (ever).
Jan 1994: Etetnal Champions was the No2 game of the month, selling about 65k.
Feb 1994: EC at no4, with 40
March: EC at no11 with 30k
April: EC at no18 with about 14k
May: EC at no24 w/ 9k
June: EC at 19 w/ 12.5k
July: EC at 28 w/ 10k
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454 (http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454)
What people need to remember is that EC was a game from Sega. Most people who brought the MD were more likely to try out or buy Sega games first before any other game from a third party. Sega at that time had a great reputation. Fighting games was the big thing. So when Sega released EC and with all the hype...people lapped it up. Just like Nintendo fans lapping up Killer Instinct. No difference to Sega fans lapping up a title from Sega in a genre everyone was going gaga for. Depending on who was making it.
Also as i said EC sales are down to various factors.
Initial sales (title sold at full price)
Rebate sales (title sold at special rebate price via promotional deal)
Activator pack in sales(sales for systems or preperials count towards game sales depending on the game included with system)
Genesis pack in sales(special exclusive shop deal pack in)
That's effectivly how the game managed to get the 2 million i spoke of.Like i said anyone who knows about these type of things would know that or know how the industy and specifically Sega count sales.
On top of that when SOA licensed Tiger Electronics Sega IP for their LCD Sega Arcade...with VIRTUA FIGHTER, BUG ETERNAL CHAMPIONS and a few others...EC SEGA POCKET ARCADE sold 18 million units.
So you can see why SOA wanted to go full steam ahead with this property. And why SOJ didn't since the VF version of the title didn't sell as much. That is why SOJ feared something similar may happen with EC 3 for Saturn and made sure it and other genesis titles didn't happen.
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Oh I agree EC was a hit if its still top 30 almost a year after release, don't get me wrong. And those numbers were EC at near full price to boot. I was just providing numbers for TA.
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No All I do is ignore quotes and links that you and everyone else have put up on this forum so i can continue to live in my little fantasy world. I have never produced a link or scan that shows who much the game sold at retail or actually backs up what i say. I got into gaming in 1998 when S*NY INVENTED GAMING and Ecco was only a modest hit on the Mega Drive and I gather didn't do well in the USA really . bUT I DONT KNOW BECAUSE I WASN'T PLAYING GAMES BACK THEN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EXIST BECAUSE everyone knows S*ny invented gaming.
You said ...Half the world in 1994/5 would have be around 2 billion people . So
no I don't lie ,like you and looking over that SEGA never had half of the worlds
gaming market either , Nintendo always had better worldwide market share that
SEGA through out SEGA entire history as a console hardware manufacturer.
That isn't 2 billion sales..which i never said. Again the twist and spinner makes his mark...But you're own words will condemn you...
It did has confirmed by Games Director !!!.
Confimed at the time by Naka that it wasn't. NAKA the leader of ST at the time from a magazine from the era of the time. And there's no one in Sega or any human being called GAMES DIRECTOR!! lol...
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TA, actually, I imagine the market dominance in Europe and America in 1992-1993 put them ahead of Nintendo worldwide, even accounting for having like ten percent of Japan
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Oh I agree EC was a hit if its still top 30 almost a year after release, don't get me wrong. And those numbers were EC at near full price to boot. I was just providing numbers for TA.
I know i was explaing the situation and why SOA went full tilt with EC and continued to do so.
TA, actually, I imagine the market dominance in Europe and America in
1992-1993 put them ahead of Nintendo worldwide, even accounting for having like
ten percent of Japan
Nintendo won if you can call it winning because of Japan..Sega had the rest of the market including America. Like i said today or Friday i will post what i mean..
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As for ECCO. If anyone believes ECCO was a moderate hit..a Game Sega not only made a sequel out of but bloody created enhanced SEGA CD versions out of for both titles..and followed up by a third game for kids which Sega Japan picked up(SOJ rarely localised SOA titles but the ones that they did were the ones that sold well in the american market including KID CHAMELEON) needs their head examined.
CHAKAN THE FOREVER MAN was a moderate hit. That game was getting the CD release version. And it didn't come to be mainly due to licensing and thatt hey decided it wasn't a strong seller to justify the enhanced version. Sega of America only went with titles that had strong sales on Genesis...That's why SPIDER MAN CD existed. That's why ECCO existed and a few others. Because they weren't going to spend millions on a moderate hit to create stuff for CD. And they wanted people to get the MCD as well as to fill out the libary. From SOA only the big sellers got the CD treatement...ECCO, SPIDER MAN, JOE MONTANA and ETERNAL CHAMPIONS. And the latter two were n't straight ports unlike the others.
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NPD also declared that between 1991 and 1994, Sega sold more software and hardware than Nintendo in the USA.
Nintendo taked that spot between 95 and 97 but nothing compare to those years because PSX and N64 were the players choice in that era.
That's SoA with Kalinske in a nutshell.
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NPD also declared that between 1991 and 1994, Sega sold more software and hardware than Nintendo in the USA.
Nintendo taked that spot between 95 and 97 but nothing compare to those years because PSX and N64 were the players choice in that era.
That's SoA with Kalinske in a nutshell.
4 years as opposed to three..and Nintendo fans think they won the console war? LOL! The console war to me was 1990-95 and Sega whipped Nintendo's butt year in year out. 96-97 doesn't even count because by then PSX was in the picture. The real meat of the era was during those years and Sega outsold SNES by a large margin. The only one who will have problems with those facts are Nintendo zealots...
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That isn't 2 billion sales..which i never said.
You don't even know what you type do you ? I just quoted what you said . Sorry even now , half the world doesn't own consoles, never mind back in the mid 1990's
NPD also declared that between 1991 and 1994, Sega sold more software and hardware than Nintendo in the USA
Total in 'worldwide' sales and Nintendo was way out in front . SEGA never had more 'Worldwide' marketshare than Nintendo in the 16 bit era, the 8 bit, or for any era SEGA was making console Hardware .
As for ECCO. If anyone believes ECCO was a moderate hit..a Game Sega not only made a sequel out of but bloody created enhanced SEGA CD versions out of for both titles
Sigh... It was the 16 bit era , when games never needed to sell millions of copies - thanks to small teams and small development times . I can make a huge list of 16 bit games that got sequels , but never sold in massive numbers. You're going to say Chuck Rock was a massive seller, Wonderboy, Castlevania IV , Aero The Bat, Phantasy Star II, Busby , World Championship Soccer , Earnest Evans were massive sellers - Games which in most cases, either had a direct sequel or various spin off's (like with Earnest Evans).
If a game sold over 150,000 or 200,000 copies that was more than enough
From SOA only the big sellers got the CD treatement...ECCO, SPIDER MAN, JOE MONTANA and ETERNAL CHAMPIONS. And the latter two were n't straight ports unlike the others.
Hardly. Adv Of Batman was not a massive seller on the MD, After Burner II was not a massive seller onthe MD . Joe Montana was a great seller I'll give you that , shame it flopped on the Mega CD (mainly to playing far worse than the Cart based versions)
Nintendo won if you can call it winning because of Japan..Sega had the rest of the market including Americ
Nintendo had more most of Europe and Japan to call it own with the Snes . For sure the Mega Drive beat the Snes in the UK and for a large part of the 16 bit battle in the USA . Like with MS and 360 really
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I think you are mixing something.
I have friends in Europe who have lived in that era and this is what they say to me about that time: "Gameboy was the portable console that every kid has and Mega Drive was the home console that everyone has".
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I don't think you're right about Europe and the SNES. Maybe in Germany, but the rest of [size=78%]Europe was Sega's roost to rule throughout the 8 bit and 16 bit eras, TA.[/size]
Also: Nintendo's worldwide share of course includes the NES, which was still doing respectable business through much of the 16 bit era.
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I think you are mixing something.
I have friends in Europe who have lived in that era and this is what they say to me about that time: "Gameboy was the portable console that every kid has and Mega Drive was the home console that everyone has".
What's this I know have a friend in Europe? and they lived in the era. I started my gaming life in 1984 after playing my Cousins ZX Spectrum 48k and then the following Christmas got my Zx Spectrum 128k+ . So I've like a most lived though the 8bit, 16 bit and 32 bit era's . Now some of us in the UK could make out that the ZX Spectrum was king and massive back in the day (which it was) but other people from Europe would paint a different picture and say the C64 was king
Europe is a massive place for starters and there's some parts of Europe that SEGA was strong and other's it wasn't in both the 8bit and 16 bit days . SEGA Mega Drive did very well in UK (where is truly smashed the Snes by over a million units) and even in 1995 had the biggest share of the UK gaming market , in the likes of France and Germany however.... it was a different story and that's where Nintendo and the Snes was king .... It's why some of the most sort after and rarest Pal games are the ones that only came out in the likes of Germany (Soul Blazer) due the bigger market for Snes games in those territories
Looking over that, the ,Worldwide, gaming market share was Nintendo's . SEGA suffered some a lot of the issues that MS and 360 did in the Mega Drive era . Not doing well in Japan, not doing well in parts of Europe (ie Germany and France) but the best selling consoles in the UK and the USA (well for many years)
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I think you are mixing something.
I have friends in Europe who have lived in that era and this is what they say to me about that time: "Gameboy was the portable console that every kid has and Mega Drive was the home console that everyone has".
He is he's spinning. The SNES was a distant second in Britian and most of Europe. But let's clarify something.
When the game industry is talking about europe they are really talking about the UK because that's the third biggest market. Europe is included due to territory reasons...but the sales really are coming from the UK. You just have to see the sales of Sega's PC stuff to know where the sales are coming from and who they are counting.
So ewith the UK in mind...the MD dominated the UK and the rest of Europe. As did the MS before it. Nintendo never got a foot in on Europe until the Gameboy came alony. TheNES only started selling in the UK after ther Turtles came out and Nintendo happened to have the game as an exclusive from Ultra games(the old eighties one) The SNES sold beter than the NES but was no way near the sales of the MD. TA doesn't know because he wasn't at gaming back then. Anyone who was gaming during that era KNOWS Sega ruled Europe and the UK. The liar slips up once again. TA is one of these people that came into gaming after FF7 and brought into the hype that Sony was spinning that Sony and Sony alone made games mainstream and all that crap. Like these pretenders they then believe the myth about games in the gamer fanbase IE Sega lost the war. Well i proved they didn't and i can tell you that Sega ruled Europe. Anyone from that era KNOWS that.
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I don't think you're right about Europe and the SNES. Maybe in Germany, but the rest of [size=78%]Europe was Sega's roost to rule throughout the 8 bit and 16 bit eras, TA.[/size]
Also: Nintendo's worldwide share of course includes the NES, which was still doing respectable business through much of the 16 bit era.
JB we both know he's not right about Europe. He can't back up his facts like i can and always do. As i said before Sega won the console war. Nintendo only beat sega after the market shifted towards 32x. Sega beat nintendo for over EIGHT years in a row in the years when the console war did matter. So you tell me who won the console war. Sega does what Nintendo cant!
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You don't even know what you type do you ?blah blah blah
You are officially an idiot and a simpleton. Go home and reflect your life you false gamer. Its bad enough you twist and lie but you can't frigging back up ANY of you're false statements and now are spinning about Europe.
I'm done with this false gamer..gentlemen?
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He is he's spinning. The SNES was a distant second in Britian and most of Europe
Take the time to read what people say . I said the Mega Drive smashed the Snes in the UK, in the likes of Germany and more so France (where Nintendo always do well) that wasn't the case - Much like the XBox 360 to be honest.
As i said before Sega won the console war.
SEGA beat Nintendo hands down in the UK and USA (for the key period ) it didn't win the war or win the battle for worldwide market share. That is where Nintendo beat SEGA and a hell of a lot of that is down the MD dismal sales in Japan Vs the Super Famicom amazing sales.
TA is one of these people that came into gaming after FF7
I don't even like Square or the PS console and and still to this day, never owned a PS . Sorry forget SONY, SEGA and Nintendo . I started gaming with the ZX Spectrum and the Intellivision.
Sony was spinning that Sony and Sony alone made games mainstream and all that crap.
I'm not a fan of SONY, would have much rathered seen SEGA stick with the XBox and for SEGA Japan back the 360 and XBox One far that they did or are doing - You're the one that's campaigning for SEGA sticking with Sony, not me.
Like these pretenders they then believe the myth about games in the gamer
Is this coming from the one (along with Nirmugen) That makes out I'm not a fan of the Mega CD don't own one Ect
Yet me show you a bit of Mega CD love for starters ....
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3953/15104000594_656d7196d4_z.jpg)
Sorry to kill a dream, but when it came to SEGA on Master System, Mega CD and Saturn I was there right from the start and simply loved the Mega CD and SEGA Saturn (and still to this day do)
(https://flic.kr/p/p1FXam)
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Keep on talking that same old shite...
Yawn..
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Yuzo Koshiro gets to handle a Pac-Man song in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U while Sonic doesn't get ONE new arrangement at all. This is a bigger injustice to Sonic than Rise of Lyric ever could be! j/k But really, how much of a say have SEGA had on what Sonic songs could be used in that game, I wonder?