SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Trippled on July 23, 2015, 07:53:54 am
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(http://tappli.org/images/Column/Column_XvVAqSbKJeBbF4VBRiKHiI0eF7qYqRRz5kYM6dxSRGxg7dGXJn5MNxxXySXa25V3_6.jpg?nc=20150520104013)
http://tappli.org/column-detail.php?id=470&cid=19 (http://tappli.org/column-detail.php?id=470&cid=19)
Well sorta. What was once AM3 got dissolved into AM1 and AM2 in 2008, Sega's two remaining arcade teams. So the above pictured Mie Kumagai got put into AM2 with her own department there. After Virtua Tennis 4 (which was technically an AM2 game), now she is part of Sega's mobile division... where which as of now made mobile versions of Derby Owners Club, Virtua Tennis. And one other game which is this:
http://squads.sega-net.com/?utm=twittercampaign (http://squads.sega-net.com/?utm=twittercampaign)
The above interview talks about women in the gaming industry in senior producer enviorments, with Tri-Ace. Where I find out she made this mobile game. Another interresting comment is that you can very well be involved in a game as a director while still managing a department, she mentions Yu Suzuki as an example. She first worked with Mizuguchi on Joypolis attractions. NiGHTS also seemingly made an impact in Japan, as it made the other women from tri-ace want to join Sega.
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AM2 making Mobile Phone games now.
There are no more heroes.
Fuck the world.
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AM2 making Mobile Phone games now.
There are no more heroes.
Fuck the world.
Really thinking about its not true...tbh the AM2 managers haven't been involved in mobile games. Still, lots of resources for mobile games being pulled from the arcade division.
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Yeah I'm just stirring shit. And sadly, it does make sense to scale back arcades in favour of mobile games.
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This is a pretty misleading title...
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Can someone explain to me why arcade games are less gross in general than mobile games? Both sides effect the game's outcome to rob users of their dollars.
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Can someone explain to me why arcade games are less gross in general than mobile games? Both sides effect the game's outcome to rob users of their dollars.
Arcade games are traditionally more technically advanced than home consoles and often explore control and interactivity that's impossible at home. A good example would be games with light guns, drums, dance pads, maracas, or twin joy sticks.
Mobile games tend to be cheaper than console games in art, production values, and game design. They appeal to the lowest common denominator and these days employ freenium business models that suck the fun and life out of whatever core game is even there. Just look at Runners.
It's not hard to understand why one is treated with more dignity. On the other hand most arcade games are designed to syphon your quarters unfairly so there's that.
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your kidding yourself if you think most Arcade games are more technically advanced than home console games... This isn't the 90's anymore.
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With arcade games, my thumbs aren't covering up the screen. And there are actual, responsive controls that are tighter than a mosquito's asshole, not some smudgy bullshit that hopefully works most of the time. Arcade games also let me keep playing if I'm doing well.
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IF, too bad a lot of really nice looking games are ruined because they need you to die and take your quarters. I'm all for a challenge, but cheap games are cheap games. Honestly think SEGA should just dump arcades and move their team to consoles. Honestly, there is more money in consoles/PC then there ever will be on arcades. Its not the 90s sadly... I don't see arcades making a comeback outside of Japan. I think its a waste of talent for these people to work on a game that only a handful of Japanese users will play, honestly rather have them work on mobile (if I had to choose Japanese only arcade game or a mobile game) if that means people will actually try their games.
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your kidding yourself if you think most Arcade games are more technically advanced than home console games... This isn't the 90's anymore.
I said traditionally. It's part of why arcade games have always been revered compared to mobile titles. You go to the arcades for immersive hard core experiences; you go to mobile for disposable crap.
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You go to the arcades for immersive hard core experiences; you go to mobile for disposable crap.
Oh yeah there's nothing more immersive than being surrounded by dozens of people with music on a loudspeaker and dozens of other games and conversations drowning out the one you're playing.
I think you're definitely confusing arcades of the 80's and 90's with arcades of today. No way you'll find an arcade game more advanced than what you can find on a home console, and you're especially not getting an immersive experience (though arcades have never been immersive at any point in history). Nowadays you go to what few arcades are left because it's just a good time and you get to play some old games.
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Oh yeah there's nothing more immersive than being surrounded by dozens of people with music on a loudspeaker and dozens of other games and conversations drowning out the one you're playing.
I think you're definitely confusing arcades of the 80's and 90's with arcades of today. No way you'll find an arcade game more advanced than what you can find on a home console, and you're especially not getting an immersive experience (though arcades have never been immersive at any point in history). Nowadays you go to what few arcades are left because it's just a good time and you get to play some old games.
Yeah, may be no way we'll find an arcade game more advanced than what we can find on a home console, but still... Arcade games are more advanced than mobile gaming.
At least SEGA got a BOSA silver award for their Showdown DLX arcade game (luckily we managed to get it here, love the 3D views). They rarely had any award for their mobile games, no matter how good it is.
Source : http://www.bmigaming.com/Pressreleases/2015-Best-Of-Show-Arcade-Machine-Awards-BOSA-Press-Release.pdf (http://www.bmigaming.com/Pressreleases/2015-Best-Of-Show-Arcade-Machine-Awards-BOSA-Press-Release.pdf)
(http://www.bmigaming.com/Images/bosa/2015/showdown-super-deluxe-video-arcade-racing-game-sega-amusements.jpg)
(http://www.bmigaming.com/Games/Pictures/video-arcade-games/showdown-super-deluxe-video-arcade-racing-game-closeup-sega-amusements.png)
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Many westerners dont know that alot of todays Japanese arcade games are basicilly bigger scale mobile games. Random dispensions of cards, social elements etc.
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Oh yeah there's nothing more immersive than being surrounded by dozens of people with music on a loudspeaker and dozens of other games and conversations drowning out the one you're playing.
Honestly uh, this is actually quite immersive yes. Just the ambience of an arcade can get me excited because more often than not you're surrounded by people who also love games. Like, real games. And a million shitty, snotty kids. Also immersion has many forms. If an arcade game does a good job of transporting you into another world with its unique control scheme, that's immersion. Sitting in a giant virtual-on cabinet is an amazing fucking experience no matter how loud the dave&busters may be.
I think you're confusing my point. I never said this is what arcades are now, I'm just explaining why everyone rolls their eyes at mobile titles and never at arcade ones. Is this point of view outdated? Debatable.
I can't believe we're having this discussion honestly. Why would you ever want to play a mobile game over House of the Dead, Marvel vs Capcom, virtual on, or DDR? These games can still be found in arcades across the country.
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I can't believe we're having this discussion honestly. Why would you ever want to play a mobile game over House of the Dead, Marvel vs Capcom, virtual on, or DDR? These games can still be found in arcades across the country.
I'm also pretty surprised.
As you said though, the loudness and chaos of arcades IS the immersion. There is nothing like playing an arcade fighting game in a close match with some random, then suddenly hearing cheers behind you as you get the KO because while you were playing a crowd of people formed to watch. Same as watching two guys try and break a high score together, or just goofing with your friends playing a co-op game.
There's a reason Iron Galaxy's recent games like Darkstalkers Collection and 3SOE have virtual arcade machine modes.
Also most arcade games were skill based, meaning if you got better at the game you paid less. You can't get better at arbitrary waiting times or borked RNG lotteries that are used in mobile phone games. Also as everyone has said, controls make a huge difference. Touch Screen is inherently bad for gaming. As for graphics, arcades might not be the bleeding edge anymore, but they are better than a mobile phone game made for the lowest common denominator.
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Having visited several arcades recently, I can easily say that there is much to roll one's eyes at. While there are the occasional big name games that are what one would call "true arcade experiences", most arcades nowadays prefer redemption machines and giant touchscreen games that are arcade conversions of smartphone games. Honestly, I think we need to be rolling our eyes at arcades nowadays.
A giant Virual-On cabinet at a Dave & Busters is rare in 2015. You are more likely to find Cut the Rope and Fruit Ninja. Few big name arcades are bringing in older titles now.
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Having visited several arcades recently, I can easily say that there is much to roll one's eyes at. While there are the occasional big name games that are what one would call "true arcade experiences", most arcades nowadays prefer redemption machines and giant touchscreen games that are arcade conversions of smartphone games. Honestly, I think we need to be rolling our eyes at arcades nowadays.
A giant Virual-On cabinet at a Dave & Busters is rare in 2015. You are more likely to find Cut the Rope and Fruit Ninja. Few big name arcades are bringing in older titles now.
The shittiest modern arcade games are ports of mobile games? You don't say.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zMEdp07YlLc/Uk68ELLdrYI/AAAAAAAADlw/papdkMmGVkU/s1600/IMG_1473.JPG)
This is one of their major titles at Sega right now. Card battler controlled from a touchscreen. Would you say that this is very different from a mobile games?
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http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-07-23/pokken-tournament-tekken-7-to-hold-tests-at-dave-and-buster-arcades/.90827
DAVE AND BUSTERS STILL LIVES
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Obviously we aren't talking about stuff like Cut the Rope and Card Battling games when we talk about our favorite arcade games.
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Stop liking what I don't like - The thread.
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Ultimately I think the main similarity is just in the intended duration of playtime (short). If anyone can turn mobile games into something great, it just might be experienced arcade designers. Better to have actual game designers making games than the cynical psychological manipulators who have dominated mobile.
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Ultimately I think the main similarity is just in the intended duration of playtime (short). If anyone can turn mobile games into something great, it just might be experienced arcade designers. Better to have actual game designers making games than the cynical psychological manipulators who have dominated mobile.
Its kind of been Sega's philosophy actually - or really alot of the good japanese mobile games.
Direct quotes from Annual Report 2012
Furthermore, in light of social concerns, we halted all functions
associated with the social game Complete Gacha by May 31, 2012.
The game was one of the services that have driven rapid growth of
the market for content for SNS and smartphones in recent years.
Ending this game will affect the Group’s business results negligibly.
Going forward, demand is likely to focus on content quality and games
that are truly fun. If market trends return to a focus on quality, this will
give SEGA an excellent opportunity to bring to bear its traditional
strengths. Eager to seize and benefi t from this opportunity, we will
exploit our extensive capabilities as a comprehensive entertainment
company boasting a wide spectrum of outstanding intellectual properties
and advanced development capabilities.
On the other hand, a negative facet of the rapid market growth
since the beginning of this year is that content with strong gambling
elements has emerged as a social problem. Focusing excessively on
profi t-seeking risks betraying the trust of players and, as a result,
dampening market growth. Furthermore, it could damage the value of
intellectual properties. With this in mind, I want us to contribute to the
sustained development of the market based on maintaining a strong
awareness of CSR and making sure that we manage businesses soundly
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Stop liking what I don't like - The thread.
I've already explained multiple times why I don't like Mobile Phone games, I think they are very valid reasons.
Radrappy and I have also made several points about how arcade machines are different to most mobile games.
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Stop liking what I don't like - The thread.
I don't know where things got off track but I thought we were discussing why mobile games have a much poorer reputation than arcade games.
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You guys know that House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Daytona USA all came out in the 90's right? Some of the best arcade games of all time and the golden age for arcades... Yeah, those are great games that came out over a decade ago... how that have anything to do with now? I'm confused.
Saying that you like arcade games and bringing up titles that came out 15 years ago is a bit weird, its almost like non of you guys really go to arcades *gasp*. I wonder why...
So thats my point, why would I want a great game designer make a mobile style game (which arcade games basically are now) when they can just make it on damn mobile (or console) for millions of more consumers?
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You guys know that House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Daytona USA all came out in the 90's right? Some of the best arcade games of all time and the golden age for arcades... Yeah, those are great games that came out over a decade ago... how that have anything to do with now? I'm confused.
Saying that you like arcade games and bringing up titles that came out 15 years ago is a bit weird, its almost like non of you guys really go to arcades *gasp*. I wonder why...
So thats my point, why would I want a great game designer make a mobile style game (which arcade games basically are now) when they can just make it on damn mobile (or console) for millions of more consumers?
I think we all agree that mobile phone games are a more profitable venture than arcade machines.
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Right, since you love arcades Mademan and are ignoring shit.
What is your favorite arcade game in the last 3 years?
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Right, since you love arcades Mademan and are ignoring shit.
What is your favorite arcade game in the last 3 years?
Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown.
It came out on consoles within the last three years. What point are you trying to make anyway? I know arcade games aren't as popular as mobile games.
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Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown.
It came out on consoles within the last three years. What point are you trying to make anyway? I know arcade games aren't as popular as mobile games.
I said in Arcades. You say that arcade gaming is better yet you haven't even played an arcade in years, the games you bring up as 'amazing' are over a decade old. That's my point. You don't know the situation with arcade gaming and what it is now. Yet you are quick to argue about what it is in your eyes.
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Yeah, those are great games that came out over a decade ago... how that have anything to do with now? I'm confused.
Because it has to do with how people feel about arcade games vs mobile games? I don't know if you know this but mobile games have a terrible reputation while arcade games represent the halcyon of people's youth gaming wise. This whole discussion started from someone saying "I don't understand why mobile games get flack compared to arcade games."
So thats my point, why would I want a great game designer make a mobile style game (which arcade games basically are now) when they can just make it on damn mobile (or console) for millions of more consumers?
Ok well this is a COMPLETELY different argument. Obviously if you lump console games with mobile games you've created a completely different landscape than what we've been previously discussing. Me and mademan are saying "fuck mobile games" not "we hope everything stays on arcades forever."
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So your saying a new platform doesn't have the decades worth of trial and errors that arcade gaming has? I can bring up plenty of really shitty early arcade games from the 80's, plenty of crap. Heaps of it. I think this whole comparasion isn't even fair considering how long arcade gaming has been around. I will say one thing, it has gotten worse (arcade gaming) over time while Mobile is at least improving.
Tho in the end of the day I rather SEGA just drop arcade and focus on PC/Consoles/Mobile. In the end its all about who gets to play your experiences, not what is nostaglic (aka a dead scene like arcade gaming).
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So your saying a new platform doesn't have the decades worth of trial and errors that arcade gaming has? I can bring up plenty of really shitty early arcade games from the 80's, plenty of crap. Heaps of it. I think this whole comparasion isn't even fair considering how long arcade gaming has been around. I will say one thing, it has gotten worse (arcade gaming) over time while Mobile is at least improving.
Tho in the end of the day I rather SEGA just drop arcade and focus on PC/Consoles/Mobile. In the end its all about who gets to play your experiences, not what is nostaglic (aka a dead scene like arcade gaming).
I agree that mobile has plenty of time to grow and evolve as a platform, that's very fair. But as it is, arcade games have a fruitful legacy on their side while mobile games have nothing but baggage at this point. Hence the outrage of a well known arcade developer switching to mobile.
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I'd argue that arcade games also have their baggage. The past of arcades is not all sunshine and roses and a fruitful legacy. Let's not forget the negative stigma that quarter-munching games carry. Sure you count point to the positive in saying "well, they are plugging quarters in because it's a great game and is addicting", but more often it was because games were rigged or were made to be overly difficult to suck money out of consumers and it lead to a negative stigma for parents ("I'm not wasting my money on those arcade machines that just steal your quarters!") as well as the players who passed around the titles of games to avoid because they're unfair. I know I've tried several arcade games that I've since not played again because they were just so blatant in taking your money, giving little in terms of entertainment.
Basically, both mobile AND arcades have their positives and negatives and I think it is unfair to hold arcades above mobile, especially given the direction arcades have taken in the past 5-10 years - more redemption machines (casinos for kids) and less experiences that we are so fondly remembering in this topic. Really, the best arcade experiences are thanks to older venues that have held on to old hardware, but over time we will see less and less of Virtual On and Crazy Taxi and more of coin pushers and cheap ticket dispensers.
Personally, I look at mobile and arcades equally nowadays. Both have their underhanded tactics and downsides, but both also have their great games and upsides. I don't think it's fair to turn ones nose up at a developer who makes the shift from arcades to mobile.
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Personally, I look at mobile and arcades equally nowadays. Both have their underhanded tactics and downsides, but both also have their great games and upsides. I don't think it's fair to turn ones nose up at a developer who makes the shift from arcades to mobile.
Name me a mobile game that's comparable to playing virtual on against another skilled player in an arcade with twin sticks. You can claim they both have foibles and would be right but arcade games have the potential to be more immersive and skill based than console titles whilst mobile games will be forgettable and consumable at best. Hearthstone is the only example I can think of of a truly excellent mobile experience but even that is best played on a full ipad as opposed to a phone.
Also, you guys are full of crap. I was at a mini-golf place yesterday and it was full of high quality NEW games(the new mario kart arcade machine was a big hit, as was the newest iteration of DDR). I got to play this for the first time and it was awesome :
(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/10/star-wars-battle-pod.jpg)
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Name me a mobile game that's comparable to playing virtual on against another skilled player in an arcade with twin sticks
Its just the SEGA defence force in full effect; Most of them are only saying that becasue its one small aera SEGA Japan being do well of late . Nothing beats a big screen and proper controls that's why zero game games feature tiny screen and only a small ammount come with just touch controls in the Arcades .
as was the newest iteration of DDR). I got to play this for the first time and it was awesome :
And the worst part is that's made by bloody Namco , when it used to be SEGA Japan that was the king of Star Wars games in the Arcades
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I don't think we're on the same page. I am discussing the current state of arcade and the current state of mobile, though you keep bringing up Virtual On - a game from 1995 that is incredibly hard to find in western arcades.
I believe that both arcade and mobile have their positives and negatives, and I think it is unfair to brand mobile as "forgettable and consumable" and arcades as "immersive and skill based".
Don't get me wrong, arcades have some great games like SW Battle Pod and H2 Overdrive, but they are also filled with far too many cheap redemption machines and the Virtual On-type games you are mentioning are lucky to be around if the arcade management can be bothered to upkeep them. By that same token, mobile is filled with far too many cheap games and tactics that mimic redemption games, but there are also plenty of great recent efforts like Sword & Sworcery, Heroki, Sonic 1&2 Remastered, Chain Chronicle, Spell Tower and Zen Bound.
Circling back to the focus of this topic, I think it's great that Mie Kumagai is developing a mobile game and I think it is shortsighted and naive to think that SEGA arcade talent developing for mobile is a bad thing.