SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Aki-at on September 16, 2010, 03:06:30 am
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http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9602575 (http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9602575)
Gameplay starts about 8 minutes in, don't want to spoil yourself? Well don't read the spoilers below silly!
[spoiler:36dbuuxc]Majima dancing, tank driving, giant zombie monster battling and destructable enviroment doing, oh yeah Goda has a mecha arm too, BTW you can drive forklifts if you want... Oh did Akiyama just throw that grenade towards Majima who used his bat to hit the grenade right in the baddies mouth?!? Well now, this is perhaps the most over the top game I have seen...[/spoiler:36dbuuxc]
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AT first I thought it looked really shit, but if you keep watching you see it gets much, much better.
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So is there gonna be a multiplayer?
I like what i'm seeing man. Great TGS show for sega
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I think multiplayer mode on this could make it one of the best games next year, but I very much doubt it unfortunately.
Still stuff like shooting a gas pipe and causing all the zombies to burn to death is always a nice thing.
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I watched this live last night... 4am... barf!
Anyway, I thought basically everything looked great... Apart from one thing, I'm not totally convinced on the 3rd person shooting, It doesnt looks quite as fleashed out as it should and I hope I'm wrong... I also hope there is a normal fighting mode too.
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Heat moves on Zombies FTW :D
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It's like Left 4 Dead all over again (but with a twst) :P.
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The shooting mechanics looks awkward and weak.
I think I even saw him shooting zombies infront of him while the gun is pointing on the side.
Other than that, the game is badass.
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I hated the first trailer, but this put some hope into it. I am not sure of what to think of the controls, but if they are good then the game looks to be fantastic amounts of fun.
Hoping for co-op!
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Nagoshi has himself a new girl
http://kotaku.com/5719508/sega-recreate ... g-nostrils (http://kotaku.com/5719508/sega-recreates-fashion-models-flaring-nostrils)
(http://http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/12/500x_015.jpg)
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I am typing while the video is loading:
Will this do for Yakuza what Shadow 05 did for Sonic?
My excitement for the game was crippled once I saw the Trailer, from Majima's game it turned into a Resident Evil rip off, Seeing Lickers bravely in the center of the trailer was shameless and unforgivable plagiarism.
It hurts even more when you put into account the fact that Sega already has a Zombie game that this game could've borrowed creatures and stuff from, so going out of the way and ripping Capcom off really pisses me off.
What's even worse is it brings the villain from the 2nd game back, who was basically a more convoluted and unnecessarily fucked up version of Nishiki the villain from the first game, so if they had to bring some one back... WHY WASN'T IT NISHKI.
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^^
i don't think this game is anything like Resident Evil myself
it's more like "left 4 Dead" with 3rd person view and done right
and just in case you don't know, this is confirmed as a spin-of game just like KENZAN
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:S Lickers were introduced in Resident Evil, I am sorry Fayez but saying the game hasn't directly plagiarized from Capcom is bull shit.
I am not comparing it to Resident Evil cause of Zombies, I am comparing it cause of Lickers!
Red Lizardish Wall Crawling Zombies with no Ecto Skin (basically missing the final layer of skin).
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:S Lickers were introduced in Resident Evil, I am sorry Fayez but saying the game hasn't directly plagiarized from Capcom is bull shit.
I am not comparing it to Resident Evil cause of Zombies, I am comparing it cause of Lickers!
Red Lizardish Wall Crawling Zombies with no Ecto Skin (basically missing the final layer of skin).
i was talking about the gameplay mechanic and the overall feel, the game doesn't take itself seriously.
and just because there is a Lickers like monster! doesn't mean that the game was totally plagiarizing the whole concept of RE! not even close.
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Resident Evil took their normal zombies from Dawn of the Dead!!!! OMG Call the Waaambulance.
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:P Waambulance.
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I hope they really go all out with this game and just make it as off-the-wall as possible. If they can find a way to include G or Rogan from HOTD to make appearances and throw in all sorts of weird stuff from as many other Sega games as they can it would be awesome.
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Resident Evil took their normal zombies from Dawn of the Dead!!!! OMG Call the Waaambulance.
Sorry the 1st Resident Evil is nothing at all like Dawn of the Dead,both in terms of game play or Zombies. In fact the 1st Zombie you see, owes more to Lucio Fulci Zombie movies
It hurts even more when you put into account the fact that Sega already has a Zombie game that this game could've borrowed creatures and stuff from, so going out of the way and ripping Capcom off really pisses me off.
I do get your point , some used the Celebrate Yakuza for not selling out and copying other games, but the fact is both Capcom and SEGA have borrowed for each other over the years.
Final Fight - Streets of Rage series (there's even a Blanka ripp off in SOR II)
PSO- Monster Hunter
Resident Evil - Deep Fear
The Lost World - Gun Survivor 3
I wouldn't worry too much about it myself. More worrying its how utterly lame Binary-Domain and what a utter copy it looks
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Resident Evil took their normal zombies from Dawn of the Dead!!!! OMG Call the Waaambulance.
Sorry the 1st Resident Evil is nothing at all like Dawn of the Dead,both in terms of game play or Zombies. In fact the 1st Zombie you see, owes more to Lucio Fulci Zombie movies
Dawn of the Dead had gameplay?
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Resident Evil took their normal zombies from Dawn of the Dead!!!! OMG Call the Waaambulance.
Sorry the 1st Resident Evil is nothing at all like Dawn of the Dead,both in terms of game play or Zombies. In fact the 1st Zombie you see, owes more to Lucio Fulci Zombie movies
Dawn of the Dead had gameplay?
If you were going to make Gameplay out of Dawn Of The Dead. You would make it take place in a Shopping Mall, allow the game player to use the shop objects against the Zombies and pack the screen full of Zombies, Just like in the Film
None of which happens in RE, Dead Rising on the other hand for sure.
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If you were going to make Gameplay out of Dawn Of The Dead. You would make it take place in a Shopping Mall, allow the game player to use the shop objects against the Zombies and pack the screen full of Zombies, Just like in the Film
So, like Dead Rising? I love that game!
But I get your vibe, man.
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Resident Evil took their normal zombies from Dawn of the Dead!!!! OMG Call the Waaambulance.
Is it just me or you just can't take anything against Yakuza?
Resident Evil owes more to Sweet Home than it does to Dawn of the Dead, Capcom actually fired George A. Romero from Resident Evil movie cause his vision wasn't compatible with their vision. He was doing weird things like making Chris a farmer near the mansion.
Furthermore George A. Romero was inspired by I AM LEGEND, a very well documented fact. Wiki it. More over wiki Zombies, they have existed since the beginning of time it self, waaay before Romero.
As for Lickers they are something Capcom Flagship studio created specifically for Resident Evil 2!
Lastly, Dawn of the Dead is the 2nd movie, you want to credit a movie credit Night of the living Dead!
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Is it just me or you just can't take anything against Yakuza?
It's just you.
Also, christ almighty dude... get another wife or something. I'm sorry I'm not a mouth breathing zombie movie fanatic. To be honest ALL of those movies are boring and might as well be the same thing.
My point is that, Zombies are copied from old Zombie movies, Drop ships and Space marines are copied from Aliens, Orces and such from Tolken... Everyone borrows from everyone else.
Time to get over it.
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Nagoshi and Kikuchi said that they are hoping to parody a few zombie games and films, as in, make fun of, with Of the End!, even the name is a parody of how some Japanese zombie films are titled.
Also Yakuza 4 had Virtua Fighter, Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Monkey Ball, Let's Make a series and NiGHTS references, so they'll be sure to be some more SEGA references here, Yakuza 1 had Jet Set Radio stuff too IIRC.
Will this do for Yakuza what Shadow 05 did for Sonic?.
No, because this is not seen as a main game, Shadow the Hedgehog was a major game and was really bad.
My excitement for the game was crippled once I saw the Trailer, from Majima's game it turned into a Resident Evil rip off, Seeing Lickers bravely in the center of the trailer was shameless and unforgivable plagiarism.
One moment of parodying and all of a sudden it's a ripoff! Forget the fact you train your team members, forget the fact the city is meant to be slowly overtaken as the game goes on, forget the fact it's not a survival horror, forget the fact that ONLY ONE THING LOOKS LIKE ITS FROM RESIDENT EVIL and all of a sudden it's copying Resident Evil?
You must hate Streets of Rage and Space Channel 5 too.
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Also Yakuza 4 had Virtua Fighter, Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Monkey Ball, Let's Make a series and NiGHTS references, so they'll be sure to be some more SEGA references here, Yakuza 1 had Jet Set Radio stuff too IIRC.
One would expect that since it's made by SEGA.
They were those that celebrated SEGA Yakuza not selling out, staying the same and keeping the gameplay and not copying Capcom or major use of Guns ECT
What happend there ?
No, because this is not seen as a main game, Shadow the Hedgehog was a major game and was really bad.
Are you serious ? . This is a Major game with a major spend- highlighted with the push SOJ gave it at Tokyo Game Show, Don't give me the Spin off Rubbish...One could say that about the Shining Games (that didn't use Force) but many fans were pissed of with them. Panzer Dragoon Saga was a spin off, so was Shadow, so was Chaotix
Also unlike many spin off's Of the End is using all the Major characters established in the series) .It's all about the quality bar, and it just wasn't there with Shadow
forget the fact that ONLY ONE THING LOOKS LIKE ITS FROM RESIDENT EVIL and all of a sudden it's copying Resident Evil?
Maybe its more to with it looks like it's just coming countless Zombie modes in the Cod games, or games like Dead Rising , Left For Dead or Red Dead Redemption; In game that so many on here (like I said) once celebrated Yakuza for not selling out to the West or copying other games.
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Also Yakuza 4 had Virtua Fighter, Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Monkey Ball, Let's Make a series and NiGHTS references, so they'll be sure to be some more SEGA references here, Yakuza 1 had Jet Set Radio stuff too IIRC.
One would expect that since it's made by SEGA.
Bullshit. This is very rare from SEGA, especially Sonic Team who have only used other non-Sonic Team SEGA stuff in the Sonic Riders series.
Maybe its more to with it looks like it's just coming countless Zombie modes in the Cod games, or games like Dead Rising , Left For Dead or Red Dead Redemption; In game that so many on here (like I said) once celebrated Yakuza for not selling out to the West or copying other games.
Zombies are probably the most popular group of monsters in existence. In fact you would be extremely hard pressed to find a week out of any in a year where there are absolutely no games that have zombies in them released.
OF THE END does not really share anything gameplay-wise in common with any game I can think of. It is even greatly different from the series it is part of, they are just trying a new idea - Exactly what you wanted them to do. If it does not work out then it will change nothing.
If it is a concept that sells, everyone else but SEGA is allowed to use it? I am confused by this logic.
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Bullshit. This is very rare from SEGA, especially Sonic Team who have only used other non-Sonic Team SEGA stuff in the Sonic Riders series.
Sonic has appeared in Am1 Rad Mobile, AM3 Le Man's 24, AM#2 Sonic Fighters , AM#2 Daytona USA , AM#2 Spike Out, AM#2 Out Run II, AM#2 Shenmue, Am#2 Beach Spikers AM#3 Get Bass, Joe Montana II , AM1 OutRunners, Smilebit J.League Pro Striker, AM#3 Last Bronx
And that's just the games I can think off the top of my Head
Not Bullshit at all .
Zombies are probably the most popular group of monsters in existence. In fact you would be extremely hard pressed to find a week out of any in a year where there are absolutely no games that have zombies in them released.
That's not the issue at all Many here used to bang on about how it was great SEGA weren't doing a Capcom and not selling out to the west or copying other games .
they are just trying a new idea
Nothing remotely new in a game with shooting or fighting Zombies
If it is a concept that sells, everyone else but SEGA is allowed to use it? I am confused by this logic
I'm not really against it all . Just saying that many here didn;t want SEGA to do games with GUNs or Zombies leave that for the West or Capcom , but its now ok for Yakuza ??>
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Bullshit. This is very rare from SEGA, especially Sonic Team who have only used other non-Sonic Team SEGA stuff in the Sonic Riders series.
Sonic has appeared in Am1 Rad Mobile, AM3 Le Man's 24, AM#2 Sonic Fighters , AM#2 Daytona USA , AM#2 Spike Out, AM#2 Out Run II, AM#2 Shenmue, Am#2 Beach Spikers AM#3 Get Bass, Joe Montana II , AM1 OutRunners, Smilebit J.League Pro Striker, AM#3 Last Bronx
And that's just the games I can think off the top of my Head
Not Bullshit at all .
Yes, Sonic - SEGA's mascot - Has appeared in games that are not about him. What does this prove? It is generally very rare for SEGA games to have multiple cameos, usually it is just inspiration. I think a lot of games SEGA has made look similar to levels in AfterBurner Climax, but that does not really count as anything.
That's not the issue at all Many here used to bang on about how it was great SEGA weren't doing a Capcom and not selling out to the west or copying other games
I am not sure how zombies and guns in the games have anything to do with selling out or trying to appeal to people who play stuff like Call of Duty. Besides the zombie stuff (which is only in two games in the series so far), the series is extremely realistic in comparison to Yakuza and it is unlikely that most of the fans are into the series specifically because of those zombies. Having zombies in it does not mean it is copying anything, as I pointed out before, most games today have zombie or zombie-like creatures in them, it is just a very popular concept. If it had robots instead would you say the same thing? What about demons?
they are just trying a new idea
Nothing remotely new in a game with shooting or fighting Zombies
Except this game plays nothing like any other game based around zombies that I can even think of.
My point is that this is new to the franchise.
I'm not really against it all . Just saying that many here didn;t want SEGA to do games with GUNs or Zombies leave that for the West or Capcom , but its now ok for Yakuza ??>
I am not really sure why people would consider this as selling out. Yakuza games have always had guns, they have more guns in the cutscenes than most FPSs I can think of. If anything, selling out would be entirely scrapping the concepts based around the series (which this is not, just has a somewhat different battle system) and making it as close to Grand Theft Auto as possible.
Again, they are just trying a different set of concepts, just like with the PSP game. If one or the other does not do as good as they expect than nothing is changed.
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Yes, Sonic - SEGA's mascot - Has appeared in games that are not about him. What does this prove?
It proves it wasn't bullshit and how Sonic has appeared in plenty of non ST games. Also it's nothing new, SEGA has a long history of multiple cameos... be that the Hang-On bike in After Burner or Chicken Leg in Golden Axe ECT .
I am not sure how zombies and guns in the games have anything to do with selling out or trying to appeal to people who play stuff like Call of Duty
Then you forget the grief some of us got , where we dared to say Yakuza was getting old, stale and needed a new direction. In came people saying how it was wonderful Yakuza stayed true, didn't copy Capcom or Western games and didn't need Guns.
Except this game plays nothing like any other game based around zombies that I can even think of.
Fighting shooting Zombies is nothing new not even for SEGA, did that on Zombie Revenge , not really new in 3rd person either did that in the likes of Hunter: The Reckoning, RE4, Dead Rising.
If it had robots instead would you say the same thing? What about demons?
I rather the Team made a seprate action game based around those concepts rather than try and milk the Yakuza name (kind of like how the planned RE 4 split into DMC) For Yakuza I rather the Team were given 2 to 3 years development time to improve the engine , animation, tech , plenty of time to come up with new idea's and model a completely new City (maybe in the West) to give the series much needed freshness .
That's what I rather see
Yakuza games have always had guns, they have more guns in the cutscenes than most FPSs I can think of.
Try telling that to some on here
Again, they are just trying a different set of concepts, just like with the PSP game. If one or the other does not do as good as they expect than nothing is changed.
Why the need to use the main characters , and why the need for a completely new full priced game ?. Why didn't the team do a Red Dead Redemption ?
SEGA is simply miking the Yakuza name and brand far too much, its almost inevitable, the series will go the way of Sonic, and Tomb Raider
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One would expect that since it's made by SEGA.
No, one would not. Not that many references anyway, the only other game that comes to mind is probably Bayonetta, outside of that, it's slim pickings when it comes to a bunch of SEGA cross overs in one game.
They were those that celebrated SEGA Yakuza not selling out, staying the same and keeping the gameplay and not copying Capcom or major use of Guns ECT
What happend there ?
No one here said that here? Infact certain members have thought having improved gameplay for guns would be a good addition to the future of the series?
Are you serious ? . This is a Major game with a major spend- highlighted with the push SOJ gave it at Tokyo Game Show, Don't give me the Spin off Rubbish...One could say that about the Shining Games (that didn't use Force) but many fans were pissed of with them. Panzer Dragoon Saga was a spin off, so was Shadow, so was Chaotix.
So was Kenzan and was that a main entry into the series? No, it was not. Spinoffs can be big games for companies too, Vincent's Final Fantasy game for example, a major seller but was it a major release into the series? No it was not.
Shadow the Hedgehog however is not a spinoff, it's considered by both the makers and the fans to be a major entry into the Sonic series, completing the storyline that was put into motion in Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, Yakuza of the End will end up being nothing but an after thought when Yakuza 5 is announced. Shadow the Hedgehog however, was not, as seen in followups Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and Sonic and the Black Knight.
Maybe its more to with it looks like it's just coming countless Zombie modes in the Cod games, or games like Dead Rising , Left For Dead or Red Dead Redemption; In game that so many on here (like I said) once celebrated Yakuza for not selling out to the West or copying other games.
Please explain to me where me discussing with Cube how Yakuza is not copying Resident Evil, in which he has said on several occassions, amounts to anything releating to me saying Yakuza is not following the zombie fad?
Yakuza being part of a fad, that is another argument, but copying Resident Evil just because of one monster design when said title is meant to be a parody of several zombie releated media is an entirely different matter.
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You must hate Streets of Rage and Space Channel 5 too.
(http://http://www.whamadvertising.com/Images/Clients.jpg)
I am just pissed off they didn't refer heavily to HOTD and choose lickers instead, I rather see the wall climbing zombies from HOTD than a licker.
The core HOTD franchise is really being neglected, when 2 & 3 Returns did well, we got the horrible Over Kill, which wasn't what an HOTD fan such as myself needed.
An unintentionally badly acted game, was turned into an intentionally bad game with everything done wrong was on purpose.
I'm going off topic in rant mode, point is I NEED AN HOTD REFERENCE Than a Resident Evil 1, it is offensive as an old school Sega fan and I don't know what SC5 has to do with Capcom, and I am not a huge fan of Ulala or anything.
SOR had several nods to Street Fighter and Final Fight, but then again I don't remember Sega having another game so similar to SOR than Final Fight in this equation we have HOTD.
Weird Rant, sorry.
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I am just pissed off they didn't refer heavily to HOTD and choose lickers instead, I rather see the wall climbing zombies from HOTD than a licker.
I thought music from The House of the Dead 4 was used in one of the trailer for Yakuza of the End?
But will there be more? Maybe, the Yakuza titles all have references towards many SEGA games (NiGHTS, Monkey Ball and the Let's Make a... ! series referenced from the last) will we see more this game? Who knows?
But at the current moment, with the exception of Bayonetta, Yakuza is the only game with over 7 references to SEGA games; A fictional video game series styled like Virtua Fighter (And VF itself) as well as Let's Make a... ! music from Billy Hatcher and NiGHTS, an AiAi teddy bear, a gangstar that looks like the main villain from Jet Set Radio and of course Sonic. There are probably more, but those are the ones I remember from the top of my head.
That's more references than The House of the Dead has ever had to SEGA games, or many SEGA games, not just present but in the past too.
I'm going off topic in rant mode, point is I NEED AN HOTD REFERENCE Than a Resident Evil 1, it is offensive as an old school Sega fan and I don't know what SC5 has to do with Capcom, and I am not a huge fan of Ulala or anything.
SEGA appearently stole the visual designs for Ulala from some pop idol, of course they were cleared in a court of law, but still, there is no doubt one of the art directors did something a bit dodgy...
SOR had several nods to Street Fighter and Final Fight, but then again I don't remember Sega having another game so similar to SOR than Final Fight in this equation we have HOTD.
Yakuza is as similar to The House of the Dead as Streets of Rage was to Shinobi and Golden Axe, why no references from those games?
They do not have to be in the same genre to be referenced, you could have posters on the wall or items designed after them, they had none. Yakuza has though.
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No, one would not. Not that many references anyway, the only other game that comes to mind is probably Bayonetta, outside of that, it's slim pickings when it comes to a bunch of SEGA cross overs in one game.
They have always been a host of references to other games by the SEGA teams . Play Soinc Adv and see the NiGHTs Pinball Table and even a 3D NiGHTS stage with-n it , play Sonic Adv II and See NiGHTS posters everywhere , Play FighterMega Mix and see the After Burner Plane and even Hornet Car make a appearance. Play Daytona and and enter the right name and hear Tunes for various old SEGA games,Play Golden Axe and see Chicken Leg and at the end various SEGA Arcade games like Thunder Blade , Galaxy Force II Heavy Weight Champ or an reference to Fantasy Zone, Play Touring car and see the SEGA Rally Car, Play Val and see the Skies of Arcaida characters
Lots of SEGA Teams have done it for, like lots of other Games companies had done it too
No one here said that here? Infact certain members have thought having improved gameplay for guns would be a good addition to the future of the series?
Funny to some that would mean selling out to the West.
So was Kenzan and was that a main entry into the series? No, it was not. Spinoffs can be big games for companies too, Vincent's Final Fantasy game for example, a major seller but was it a major release into the series? No it was not.
Shadow the Hedgehog however is not a spinoff, it's considered by both the makers and the fans to be a major entry into the Sonic series, completing the storyline that was put into motion in Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, Yakuza of the End will end up being nothing but an after thought when Yakuza 5 is announced. Shadow the Hedgehog however, was not, as seen in followups Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and Sonic and the Black Knight.
Shadow was not a sequel to SONIC at all, you didn't even play as SONIC for starters, like noone expected Knuckles' Chaotix was Sonic IV ?. They were clear spin off 's with totally different types of gameplay to SONIC . People may list Kezan as a spin off, but it played exactly like a Yakuza game, just in a totally different time period, bit that is not different to Onimusha 3 to Dawn of Dreams. Kezan was a major entry into the series nearly 3 years in development and costing SEGA over $25 Million dollars to make
Even the Spin off Resident Evil games like keep the Story Arch in some shape,and I wouldn't class Resident Evil: Survivor , The Umbrella Chronicles, Outbreak as direct RE sequels , would you ?. the same is true for the Shining spin off games on the Saturn ECT.
Please explain to me where me discussing with Cube how Yakuza is not copying Resident Evil, in which he has said on several occassions, amounts to anything releating to me saying Yakuza is not following the zombie fad?
I've no problem with SEGA copying or borrowing ideas from other games or Capcom games, simply because SEGA always done it (every Corp does it) . I just rather see the team take a break from Yakuza and given 3 years to really inject new idea's, new tech and a new City into the Franchise. No problem with Zonbies at all, I just thing SEGA should have gone down the Red Dead Redemption Route, rather than a full price game .
I just think SEGA is milking the Yakuza brand far too much , like CORE did with TR and SEGA it's self did with SONIC. Yearly sequels (no sports) are a sure way to kill innovation, and kill the Team that makes them over time . Now is that not a genuine and heartfelt concern ?
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Can I just interject to say I'm getting really bloody tired of phrases like 'Selling out to the West'. It's almost as if doing anything high-concept is a bad thing now.
In some cases, like Binary Domain's trailer and certain parts of Vanquish, it does look like they are pandering to the West, but doing a wacky spin-off zombie game? C'mon, let them have some fun with the series.
I think people are just overthinking everything way too much.
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Can I just interject to say I'm getting really bloody tired of phrases like 'Selling out to the West'.
It's actually satisfying for me to see that notion accepted when people so resisted it when I tried to awaken them to that reality some time ago.
It's almost as if doing anything high-concept is a bad thing now.
While I'm not entirely sure what 'high concept' refers to I would like to make the distinction that it is not "high concept" in and of itself that people are reacting to but the combination of high concept and a watered down and diluted core gaming experience. This is the condition that afflicts most of contemporary gaming that current gamers have gradually been conditioned to accept having completely forgotten gaming used to be about great gameplay first and not great presentation.
In some cases, like Binary Domain's trailer and certain parts of Vanquish, it does look like they are pandering to the West, but doing a wacky spin-off zombie game? C'mon, let them have some fun with the series.
I appreciate you recognize the western pandering now in those titles, but I agree with you that I don't see that in The End.
The End is a cheesy, cash-in, spin-off to have some artistic conflict about the derivative aspects of the game really is inappropriate and beyond its scope and ambition. My only concern is that the gunplay is fun. I actually think they are getting the atmosphere right and that the "Capcom rip-off" is practically a nice old-school trademark.
I think people are just overthinking everything way too much.
You're right. . .if people were more focused on the gameplay that is what would be the concern.
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Capcom and Namco have been copying Sega for years anyway and in some cases Sega copies them... Parody is often a sign of respect.
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There are rumors about guest characters in this new Ryu Ga Gotoku.
Maybe, some characters from The House of The Dead series...
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^Would be pretty damn awesome... But I wont hold my breath.
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G Partnered with Goro
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Nagoshi said that we could see some guest characters there... but it was not clear what he was talking about; others games characters/ others companies characters/ old characters from Ryu Ga Gotoku/ real world personalities.
My first bet was at Bio Hazard series characters! Not sure now...
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It would be amazing if they got guest characters from Resident Evil (Biohazard) and characters from The House of the Dead... In a Yakuza game... lol.
But I really doubt that is going to happen.
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You're right. . .if people were more focused on the gameplay that is what would be the concern.
Coming from you that's bit much to take. There's plenty of great gameplay in FPS, if only you ever gave them a chance.
Ww have the likes of you saying that that Vanquish is not Gears of War, to state they're totally different in gameplay (which in parts they are) But label all FPS under the same brush.
Do the likes of you play FPS any more ?
To play COD and then to play Half-Life II is a totally different gameplay experience (like it is to play GOW and Vanquished).
Yes like Van & Gears, they share the same view point, they also share guns, but that's where the similarities end....The planing, the skill, the thought that went into Half_Life stages, characters, puzzles and AI is totally amazing and so under valued when people like to make out this is just another FPS and brush with the same brush as COD.
Its the same for racers to Play PGR and then to play Blur is a totally different type style of game, even though, its in the same genre and made by the same team. Playing the likes of Singularity , Half Life, Bio-Shock and then to play the likes of Battle Field II, Halo , COD is a totally different in the way they play ECT.
I've no problem with SEGA copying/borrowing ideas from other games (SEGA always done that, and so does all games makers ) no problem with SEGA making games for the west or having Guns (again that's nothing new) I just have a problem with milking a franchise to death, and where I feel this really should have been a Download connect to Yakuza IV , like a Red Dead Redemption dlc or GTA IV episode Content downloads , rather than a full price stand alone game (that said I didn't like the fact that Virtual ON IV is not a LIVE game, but stand-alone)
I rather the team were given 2 to 3 years to make fresh Yakuza game and inject much needed freshness into the brand, with if nothing else modelling a completely new City and some much needed new Tech.
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It's actually satisfying for me to see that notion accepted when people so resisted it when I tried to awaken them to that reality some time ago
What reality? I don't think that it's happening a lot or at least that it's not any worse than it always has been. Do you consider something like Golden Axe 'selling out' for example? Because that was very heavily based on Western Culture.
In any event, sometimes I don't think theres anything sinister about Japanese games having western elements. Again, sometimes it's poorly handled but sometimes it's done well.
While I'm not entirely sure what 'high concept' refers to I would like to make the distinction that it is not "high concept" in and of itself that people are reacting to but the combination of high concept and a watered down and diluted core gaming experience. This is the condition that afflicts most of contemporary gaming that current gamers have gradually been conditioned to accept having completely forgotten gaming used to be about great gameplay first and not great presentation.
When I say 'High Concept' I mean that it's something created to appeal to a very large audience (I may be mis-using this term slightly).
A good example is something like Call of Duty series. They are designed to appeal to a huge audience, since World War 2 and Modern Warfare scenarios are easy to relate to, recognisable and easily offer up plenty of action. That doesn't mean that they are bad or lazy games though, I personally loved World at War in particular and felt that the single player campaign was great in terms of gameplay and presentation and the multiplayer was great fun too.
Thing is though, people see something like a WW2 shooter and immediately assume it's lazy or derivative or 'selling out' etc etc, much like some people seem to be dubious about Yakuza of the End already just because of zombies.
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What reality? I don't think that it's happening a lot or at least that it's not any worse than it always has been. Do you consider something like Golden Axe 'selling out' for example? Because that was very heavily based on Western Culture
Great points, what about After Burner II , Aliens 3 (the light Gun), Gun Blade NY (the Clue is in the title) , Daytona USA, Out Run, Virutal Cop, Sega Rally (typically a European sport) 18 wheeler, and million and one other classic SEGA games that were made to appeal to the west. and in some cases used western films influences . People seem to forget that SONIC was also made to appeal to the western Market.
And I really don't know what is so wrong with wanting to appeal to the western Market , or using western comics or films as influences
In any event, sometimes I don't think theres anything sinister about Japanese games having western elements. Again, sometimes it's poorly handled but sometimes it's done well.
Spot on , and the same for Japanese games having western elements . If it adds to the game and its all good, what's the issue ?
Thing is though, people see something like a WW2 shooter and immediately assume it's lazy or derivative or 'selling out' etc etc, much like some people seem to be dubious about Yakuza of the End already just because of zombies.
Great points, there is too much tarnishing all games with the same brush and its makes me sick . To label Half-Life as just another FPS is an total injustice to the amount of work, planning and execution that when into that production. I feel the same with the Panzer Dragoon Orta, some love to label it as just another On-Rails 3D shooter and not giving any credit to the amount of work and effort that went into the title
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Two special videos focusing on the story and gameplay.
Lot of new scenes and dialogues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... UjhZVXa9pY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cUjhZVXa9pY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5Vmz_SurkM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=05Vmz_SurkM)
Also, 3 new Japanese famous stars. These time they are zombies!
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/ne ... 20449.html (http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20110114_420449.html)
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Thanks storm! Glad you're getting us this news from Japan!
Also, how is this game going down in Japan? do people like the idea?
Putting this up now... I'll put the Stars news as a second article later. spread it out, make it go further!
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Those trailers are just amazing. I just recently got a PS3. I need to catch up from yakuza 3 :P. Ordered it allready. Oh and valkyria chronicles 1 as well.
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Those trailers are just amazing. I just recently got a PS3. I need to catch up from yakuza 3 :P. Ordered it allready. Oh and valkyria chronicles 1 as well.
Good man, both are great games. Although of the entire series I had least fun with Yakuza 3 it is still a very good game and packed with content.
Yakuza 4 is apparently the best of the lot so far, which comes out in Feb or March 2011.
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Yes! People are shocked but loving the idea. They are treating it as a "gaiden" story.
Well, it feels like a true sequel to me. I'm loving it too.
By the way, what happened with the global gaming world? Sounds like they all are celebrating something... since there are a lot of things involving zombies (on games and others media) at the same time. It's just weird -_-;
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Yes! People are shocked but loving the idea. They are treating it as a "gaiden" story.
Well, it feels like a true sequel to me. I'm loving it too.
By the way, what happened with the global gaming world? Sounds like they all are celebrating something... since there are a lot of things involving zombies (on games and others media) at the same time. It's just weird -_-;
Didn't you hear? The world is going to end in 2012 with a Zombie Apocolypse! =D
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That was awesome, I loved seeng the familiar faces in Gary's Boot Camp.
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It's actually satisfying for me to see that notion accepted when people so resisted it when I tried to awaken them to that reality some time ago.
While I'm not entirely sure what 'high concept' refers to I would like to make the distinction that it is not "high concept" in and of itself that people are reacting to but the combination of high concept and a watered down and diluted core gaming experience. This is the condition that afflicts most of contemporary gaming that current gamers have gradually been conditioned to accept having completely forgotten gaming used to be about great gameplay first and not great presentation.
I appreciate you recognize the western pandering now in those titles, but I agree with you that I don't see that in The End.
The End is a cheesy, cash-in, spin-off to have some artistic conflict about the derivative aspects of the game really is inappropriate and beyond its scope and ambition. My only concern is that the gunplay is fun. I actually think they are getting the atmosphere right and that the "Capcom rip-off" is practically a nice old-school trademark.
You're right. . .if people were more focused on the gameplay that is what would be the concern.
I'd accept your point if it wasn't solely judged too harshly.
The difference of what you'd call western pandering in the 80s and 90s as compared to now was back then there wasn't a massive divide between gameplaying tastes in japan and in america. Most of the action games taking references of old movies and the such was mainly down to the fact that the things that were being referred to in japanese games or copied were international. You don't have to be japanese, american or russian to understand a concept of simulation driving or racing. Or shooting, or whatever. The symbols used in many sega arcade titles were known to gamers, even if it was a title specifcally for the japanese it wouldn't and didn't matter bar titles that were changed due to licensing issues.
The problem now is that the tastes have changed, the market is more diverse, the gaming crowd are totally different to the ones in the nineties and so on. Western console gameplaying now has been dominated by titles whose genres have originated from the PC which is different to the pick up and play type of style in many japanese games specifically Sega's. Half of Sega's problem since being a third partyis realising that things had changed . Pandering to the west isn't really the answer. Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.
People keep churning this as some undisputed fact that Sega will do well as a multi platform developer and making more western style titles but we have all seen that neither of this has worked outside key franchises. It hasn't worked overall. BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan. Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines and BD too.
Sega's main buisness, arcade gaming IE porting arcade titles is out of fashion seemingly with console gamers and sega themselves, which would have been unheard of back in their heyday and the golden age of gaming.
The conclusion has to be does sega work as a third party developer at all. Historically they haven't and it seems at the moment it hasn't so far apart that this incarnation has been more succesful than previous attempts. How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega? I'd ask this even if it was Nintendo,outside Mario or Zelda how many of their games would sell on non nintendo platforms? If the base isn't there for Sega consumer teams to rely on a good margin then maybe its time to effectily rebrand themselves much like they did at the initial years of the Genesis era and go after a different consumer if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.
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Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.
Its not so pandering: Because a Japanese or American developer always have a Different mind set and values, even if you're making a game for a Set Market. In a sports game a American development may want to see a game won outright, to a European developer a Draw is a far outcome (that's being General) There are always deep cultural differences.
The trouble is for most Japanese developers is that....#
The west is now the leaders for the Consoles sales, GPU's and the Middleware tech ; be that in the CPU or GPU's used in the console or in Terms of Middleware like Havok ECT (to be fair CRI middles is still bloody awesome) and that the Japanese market is continuing to shrink (a ageing population is not helping matters) These are factors no Japanese developer can overlook. You can take the simple easy sage route and back the HH systems (which many are doing) but that Market is limited and has its own issues.
These days its pretty much a must (no matter if you're Western or Asian) that all your Big projects need to be Multi Platform. That is the only way in this generation to get the best sales, unlike the previous where there's always tented to be one console that is miles out in front in all Key territory (Yes I know the Wii is, but its games sales for 3rd parties is still relative poor) It's all about allowing as many pepole as possible to be able to play ones games, and sharing the developments cost on Middleware and Multiplatform
BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan
True, though in over all sales the Games has sold better in the West (in terms of sheer numbers)
Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines
Its been hit by all sorts of problems, not help with the main producer walking out of both the game and leaving SEGA too and of coruse its a Licence and that means everything need to go through and be approved by FOX
How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega?
Not many I wouldn't say. Looking Back (and yes that is very easy) SEGA should have been completely muli-platform from the start of SEGA going Multi Platform
if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.
I think SEGA needs to really start to please its old fans, sort them out and then look to please the rest latter . So to send out a Big message SEGA needs to make a Sequel to one of its most Respected/loved IP's. Shenmue would be the obvious choice, but why not make a Sequel to SOA using the Canvas engine ?
The Team is proven this gen, and so is the Tech . So why Not give the team the job of making SOA II for the PS3, 360 and ports to the PSP/Wii too. I'm so hoping PSO II will also please the faithful in similar ways
SEGA could start to take Yakuza Multi Platform (just try it once) and allow people with out an PS3 to play the game, its would be nice if SEGA started to wake up to some easy money and ways of pleasing fans.... A Natal Samba De Amigo seems a non-brainier to me, and what about getting a team to start making a proper DC or Model 3 collection packs....
A Shooter Pack with the likes of LA Machines/Guns. HOTD 1& 2, Lost World Arcade, VC 2 & 3, Ocean Hunter, Racer pack with SEGA racer TV , SEGA Rally 1& II, Le Man 24 , Daytona USA 1 & II (ok the names will need to change) or if you're going to do a DC Pack..Then at least Put Sonic Adv 1 & II, Both the Crazy Taxi games, both the SC 5 games and all the SEGA Bass fishing games in that pack . Simple moves like that, could please so many, and not cost or take millions and massive teams to make
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And so the war began 8-)
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And so the war began 8-)
Its no war, its a decision; The point of a forum board
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And so the war began 8-)
Its no war, its a decision; The point of a forum board
I think you mean discussion, and it's cool so long as it doesn't turn into insults. :afroman:
Can I point out I'm dissapointed we haven't seen more melee combat in these trailers? I think Yakuza combat mixed with zombies has potential to be awesome. Like, literally punching heads off of shoulders and the like.
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Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.
Its not so pandering: Because a Japanese or American developer always have a Different mind set and values, even if you're making a game for a Set Market. In a sports game a American development may want to see a game won outright, to a European developer a Draw is a far outcome (that's being General) There are always deep cultural differences.
That goes without saying, I'm talking about pandering to a particular market in spite of everyone else for the sake of it which Sega has been guilty of throughout their history on the console market. Be it with the Saturn, MD or even the MS. This has usally been the excecutive problem rather than a developer problem. Instead of treating the markets equally, one market is favoured than the other,and it usually comes crashing down at one point.
The trouble is for most Japanese developers is that....#
The west is now the leaders for the Consoles sales, GPU's and the Middleware tech ; be that in the CPU or GPU's used in the console or in Terms of Middleware like Havok ECT (to be fair CRI middles is still bloody awesome) and that the Japanese market is continuing to shrink (a ageing population is not helping matters) These are factors no Japanese developer can overlook. You can take the simple easy sage route and back the HH systems (which many are doing) but that Market is limited and has its own issues.
Agree, agree.
These days its pretty much a must (no matter if you're Western or Asian) that all your Big projects need to be Multi Platform. That is the only way in this generation to get the best sales, unlike the previous where there's always tented to be one console that is miles out in front in all Key territory (Yes I know the Wii is, but its games sales for 3rd parties is still relative poor) It's all about allowing as many pepole as possible to be able to play ones games, and sharing the developments cost on Middleware and Multiplatform
But weve seen that work with other third parties but it hasn't really worked for Sega Japan. And really if you count nintendo most of their sales have overshadowed everything else on a number of exclusive titles including Sega most succesful title this generation being M+S. Middleware costs you may have a point on that. only real thing is to ultilise the assets they have maybe have the technical team from the ashes of SRS give them pointers in the western dev style and tools.
BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan
True, though in over all sales the Games has sold better in the West (in terms of sheer numbers)
I'm talking first term sales. BAYONETTA over here shifted more units after a price cut, in Japan it didn't have that problem and had a better debut. So it depends who made the most money and that usually goes in how many full price copies shifted in its first two weeks and overall period(usually three months) before a title naturally dies off.
Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines
Its been hit by all sorts of problems, not help with the main producer walking out of both the game and leaving SEGA too and of coruse its a Licence and that means everything need to go through and be approved by FOX
How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega?
Not many I wouldn't say. Looking Back (and yes that is very easy) SEGA should have been completely muli-platform from the start of SEGA going Multi Platform
And that's the problem. I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one. Most of your fave games in this era from Sega has been only on one platform. Was it just because they happen to be Ips you liked, or they happen to just be good games or that they were really what was present of what Sega stood for good development use, great gameplay, ideas and so forth. Sega to me doesn't and never has worked as a MP developer. I'd like to see what they can actually do on the 360 properly without diluting the title on two other platforms,That's what i'm used to as a sega consumer.
That's why it was easy to point out their superiority when you could point out a title and see what they did with that system in order to get the game to do what it did. If anything needs to be MP are the ports which was made easy of course by some of the shared architecture of the boards and the systems in the old days and to a smaller degree today. Unleash the beast of the arcade titles on all systems because essentially it wouldn't matter. But with consumer titles they need to really adopt more of the single stat idea or fail that do what they did in the old days by giving you the same title on different systems but having the games be a variant of each other rather than being a straight port. An idea that seemed to be on the cards when it was talked about doing/releasing JSR2 for the DC and JSRF for xbox but both being completly different.
if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.
I think SEGA needs to really start to please its old fans, sort them out and then look to please the rest latter . So to send out a Big message SEGA needs to make a Sequel to one of its most Respected/loved IP's. Shenmue would be the obvious choice, but why not make a Sequel to SOA using the Canvas engine ?
The Team is proven this gen, and so is the Tech . So why Not give the team the job of making SOA II for the PS3, 360 and ports to the PSP/Wii too. I'm so hoping PSO II will also please the faithful in similar ways
SEGA could start to take Yakuza Multi Platform (just try it once) and allow people with out an PS3 to play the game, its would be nice if SEGA started to wake up to some easy money and ways of pleasing fans.... A Natal Samba De Amigo seems a non-brainier to me, and what about getting a team to start making a proper DC or Model 3 collection packs....
A Shooter Pack with the likes of LA Machines/Guns. HOTD 1& 2, Lost World Arcade, VC 2 & 3, Ocean Hunter, Racer pack with SEGA racer TV , SEGA Rally 1& II, Le Man 24 , Daytona USA 1 & II (ok the names will need to change) or if you're going to do a DC Pack..Then at least Put Sonic Adv 1 & II, Both the Crazy Taxi games, both the SC 5 games and all the SEGA Bass fishing games in that pack . Simple moves like that, could please so many, and not cost or take millions and massive teams to make
Youre talking to the converted here, i don't disagree with that. Apart from the MP bit.
You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come. If you look at their heyday after the MS era the main reason MD did very well was down to Sonic. But many consumers stayed because of Sega. With an exclusive system the customer although buying the system for whatever popular game(If they happen not to be a fan of the company making it) would be more inclined to check the other software from the company responsible for their favourite game.
That's why games like ALPHA PROTOCOL would have probably fared much better if it was released on a sega system than it did as it was. Among other reasons its easy to sell to the general gamer whose purchased your system to sell another title as we have seen countless times with the Wii's ridiculous non mario titles. But nowadays Sonic is still doing his mandate(despite Sega's mistakes) to pull in the punters and pull in new customers. The problem is that's where it stops. The vast majority of those sonic gamers unlike the ones who brought the various sega systems to play sonic in the past aren't or don't feel the need to buy sega products outside of that franchise so the sega userbase isn't growing like it did with in the old days. Really down to the fact that its on other systems where there is more competition and doesn't hold the attention of the userbase because the 360 and wii and PS3 are from other companies.
Pandering to the old guard although pleasing won't help sega in the long run. I'm in my late thirties now,You i think are around early thirties, Sharky must be in his early to mid twenties and everyone here are in their early to mid twenties as well as a few 40 to mid thirty year olds. I'm still buying games but not in the same way I did back in my teen years. And really that's the case if it isn't yet with many sega fans, things get in the way, responsibilites work and other stuff. There isn't a new generation thats replacing the exisiting one in significant numbers and if there are their idea of sega will still be sonic but also Bakugan and Dinosaur king and other kiddie related stuff(at least in japan)
If the Sega dna style titles work like that future project of yours now known as BD and a few others in bringing in newer fans that will stick with Sega, i'll be a happy bunny but the reality seems that for whatever reason Sega just can't get a good maximum out of specific tactics for their company. Other than sonic,sega isn't attracting new consumers. The Platinum deal which was a fanboys wet dream in reality can be considered kinda mixed. successful but expectation was higher than the outcome. But other than that i don't think many people who brought that game that weren't followers with sega were inclined to check out other sega games either.
I think its time for Sega japan to stop pandering to the west. Give Sega west a lot more autonomy(like they did in the genesis era) port arcade games again and really start making consumer games with an international appeal than just a title perceived to be more eastern like YAKUZA or western like BD and just get the balance right.
Time will tell well next year we shall see if the recent tactic will work out.
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That goes without saying, I'm talking about pandering to a particular market in spite of everyone else for the sake of it which Sega has been guilty of throughout their history on the console market. Be it with the Saturn, MD or even the MS. This has usally been the excecutive problem rather than a developer problem. Instead of treating the markets equally, one market is favoured than the other,and it usually comes crashing down at one point.
Yes but no developer can over look the USA Market: its just so massive, and as been for many years a growing Market (or at least no shrinking as much as Japan.
But weve seen that work with other third parties but it hasn't really worked for Sega Japan.
Trouble is SEGA Japan just tended to look at much the Japanese Market,some of its games were very niche, and SEGA really hasn't been Multi Platform (games have still been exclusive to 1 platform) also SEGA still has poor image and dire PR. Every BIG Major games (Yakuza 3, Val) and every Sonic Game should have been multi Platform, from the very start.
SEGA shots its self in the foot sometimes....SEGA makes the best Sonic game in years, and its only out on the Wii , where's the 360 and PS3 versions; even if they sold poor, I bet they would have totalled over the 5,000,0000 or Million Mark.
I'm talking first term sales. BAYONETTA over here shifted more units after a price cut
I know that why I said true. But Bay did sell in decent enough numbers in the USA/Europe.
I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one.
I know, but just backing one Platform this Generation isn't going to work . Every Major 3rd Party is now more or less completely multi-platform and SEGA needs to be just the same, if its is going to take on and beat the likes of EA, Ubisoft or 2k . I don't like it any more more than the next person, but that is just the way then Generation has gone, and I dare say it will be the same next Gen
SEGA has just got to start to let people be able to play all its games, be you a 360, PS3 or Wii Owner. Just look at Sharky; he's a SEGA nut and one of its best and most loyal fans... but due to Sharky only owning a 360, he's missed/missing out on Yakuza III, or Val on the PS3 . SEGA needs to stop hurting and dividing its own fans (you know full well there's a small section of fans that will never buy SONY) Start allowing people to play your BIG games. No matter the system you own....Its better for us, its great PR and its better for SEGA inthe end imo
You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come.
I know but the good will and the word of mouth a Skies II(using the Canvas engine) could generate.. would be just amazing.
One Screen shot of the Skies Characters& World in Canvas, would have many people on various forums cheering and praising SEGA for all the right reasons, it would kill the comments; that the Old SEGA is dead too, get everyone here hyping and talking the game up, and give all us SEGA fans a reason to shout from the roof tops.
The engine and Team is proven too, the time is right is do such a move, and Skies is not a game that be pandering to the West at all. Also having a team to do various Model 3 , 2 packs again is very easy, and not pandering, but will generate serious good will towards SEGA
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Skies of Arcadia 2, Canvas Engine... Yes, Yes Please.
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TA and ROJM need to do a podcast together. It would be awesome! Like The O'Reilly Factor X10.
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Yeah, I'd love it. Call it "Citation Needed." ;)
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Trouble is SEGA Japan just tended to look at much the Japanese Market,some of its games were very niche, and SEGA really hasn't been Multi Platform (games have still been exclusive to 1 platform) also SEGA still has poor image and dire PR. Every BIG Major games (Yakuza 3, Val) and every Sonic Game should have been multi Platform, from the very start.
Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.
Instead of balancing it out like they did in the genesis/Master system era they've gone the complete opposite way.
In total Sega should make local games or regional games(titles specific to japan,america and europe and the main Sega titles(which everyone can play) should complement it. Not spending all resources for one market.
SEGA shots its self in the foot sometimes....SEGA makes the best Sonic game in years, and its only out on the Wii , where's the 360 and PS3 versions; even if they sold poor, I bet they would have totalled over the 5,000,0000 or Million Mark.
Sonic yes should be multiplatform but i think this is down to mixed messages from 360/ps3 owners who keep bitching about Sonic.
I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one.
I know, but just backing one Platform this Generation isn't going to work . Every Major 3rd Party is now more or less completely multi-platform and SEGA needs to be just the same, if its is going to take on and beat the likes of EA, Ubisoft or 2k . I don't like it any more more than the next person, but that is just the way then Generation has gone, and I dare say it will be the same next Gen
That's not a fair comparison. Most third parties on the 360/Ps3 started going multi platform since the Ps2 era while a few others have been doing it longer than that.
And the reality is exclusives have worked for Sega whether you like it or not. At the moment thanks to PS3 move and 360 kinectic were getting at least three exclusives coming out, one being the first SOJ 360 exclusive in the form of RISE OF NIGHTMARES and it seems HOTD4 may at least be seeing the light of day on the PS3 move too.Who knows the point is exclusives doesn't hurt if used correctly. YAKUZA wouldn't have sold if it was an MP game, Sega wasn't in any condition to sell that game in the way it had to be sold.
SEGA has just got to start to let people be able to play all its games, be you a 360, PS3 or Wii Owner. Just look at Sharky; he's a SEGA nut and one of its best and most loyal fans... but due to Sharky only owning a 360, he's missed/missing out on Yakuza III, or Val on the PS3 . SEGA needs to stop hurting and dividing its own fans (you know full well there's a small section of fans that will never buy SONY) Start allowing people to play your BIG games. No matter the system you own....Its better for us, its great PR and its better for SEGA inthe end imo
And sadly the reality is the big wigs won't do it. There's no point in having three different systems if you can get the same game. that's part of the reason why the crash of 82 happened. They need exclusives as much as they can. Sega needs exclusives in order to share the burden in marketing a big title, which is what happened when YAKUZA and VAL came out. That's essentially the main reason why SHENMUE won't get released without an exclusive deal behind it. Sega isn't going to take the risk on publishing a title like that, market it and see it flop big time on two platforms. We can all harp on and complain but let's not forget this is a Buisness and that's how the buisness goes.
I'm still one of them. Technically my PS3(if is second hand so it didn't go to Sony's hands.) As for Sharky, anyone want a whip round to raise cash for Sharky to buy a PS3? Sharky AID.
You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come.
I know but the good will and the word of mouth a Skies II(using the Canvas engine) could generate.. would be just amazing.
One Screen shot of the Skies Characters& World in Canvas, would have many people on various forums cheering and praising SEGA for all the right reasons, it would kill the comments; that the Old SEGA is dead too, get everyone here hyping and talking the game up, and give all us SEGA fans a reason to shout from the roof tops.
The engine and Team is proven too, the time is right is do such a move, and Skies is not a game that be pandering to the West at all. Also having a team to do various Model 3 , 2 packs again is very easy, and not pandering, but will generate serious good will towards SEGA
I'd rather see Sega go bust then just to see them reduce to sharing engines like that be it from the same team. And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took. People are going to find something wrong with it regardless on how good it ran just to bash sega and ultimatly you need the userbase to buy the game in the first place. Its not there in great numbers, JRPGs apparently are going into a slump so it wouldn't necessarly sell anyway.
Arcade releases or ports are not pandering. That's one element that's missing a lot. They need to reconnect those titles and remind/reveal that they do make arcade titles to this generation. And with that you hopefully create a new sega fan.
rebrand the overall product of Sega ultimatly. I recall reading in EDGE that Oguchi(i think) wanted the brand to be like coco cola. If that means keep reminding people you exist, i'm all for it. sell the brand like it use to not just follow the crowd and show just the game, and do it like micky Ds when a game(a number) of games go down in price spread the word. Reconnect with fans, use the asserts of what sega is good for ie become essentially the apple of the console world or build up to that because let's face it innovation is sega's middle name.
SOJ needs an eqvilent of someone like Tom K to steer the ship and know the market and take the risks. Sega sammy needs a leader overall like Isao Okawa to give the balance and support. Sega west needs more autonomy ie let SE link the deals to the games and studios while SOA bring in the personell or future talent and create games that way. Stuff they were historically good at for years.
And at the end release a new system. Games won't be going that long in the future because essentially all the hardware companies are using ideas either made succesful or pioneered by sega. If sega never becomes a console maker again then how long does anyone think that these guys could carry on for? another genration being another 10 years? Unless they come up with something original of their own or someone else does then all were going to see is the eventual decline of the games market in the form we know it now and what's seems to be happening in japan where social crappy gaming/mobile gaming takes over.
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I really don't want for this to turn back the old days of endless quoting, or any name calling to I'll try and keep it brief
Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.
My self, I think it was a lot more to do with it was poor game choice and not a great Studio that made the title (rather than being lazy) SEGA also made a mistake in letting SEGA Europe handle SEGA Rally: That should have been a Arcade title 1st and then ported to Home systems (like Rally II) and made only by SEGA Japan.
I also think Shadow the Hedgehog, which came out long before was an pretty shit attempt to cash in on Sonic, and trying to appeal to the USA and older market
but i think this is down to mixed messages from 360/ps3 owners who keep bitching about Sonic.
There's plenty of mixed messages on the Wii : HOTD sells great, Mad world sells like shit. Big projects and big IP needs to be Multi Platform This generation (that is my own view)
Most third parties on the 360/Ps3 started going multi platform since the Ps2 era while a few others have been doing it longer than that
It really is now, more than fair... Konami, Namco, Capcom have all gone Multi and also backed the 360, even though in the PS2 days they were fairly SONY ( also remember SEGA been multi since 2001) ) So have Square and now even the likes of nsomniac games are going Multi.
This generation is different, and in the HD era, you really need to be Multi imo
And the reality is exclusives have worked for Sega whether you like it or not. At the moment thanks to PS3 move and 360 kinectic were getting at least three exclusives coming out, one being the first SOJ 360 exclusive in the form of RISE OF NIGHTMARES and it seems HOTD4
In terms of Sonic Vs Mario I would agree, in terms of Yakuza or Val I'm not so sure at all; The Consumer Teams are yet to make a Profit and so far all the next gen Yakuza haven't been able to out sell Yakuza II or really grown and move the series forward (the costs invouled also mean that SEGA needs to sell 400,000 copies just to break even) Kenzan would have made no sense, but I would have liked to see Yak III and Val multi Platform from the start.
To try and help get more sales, more PR and help grow the series of games
And sadly the reality is the big wigs won't do it. There's no point in having three different systems if you can get the same game. that's part of the reason why the crash of 82
Only true Gamer heads will own all 3 systems, for many it will be either the PS3 or 360 (that is why the likes of EA are multi-Platform ) and that's fine. SEGA needs to be allow consumers: be they fans of either the 360 or PS3 be able to play SEGA games, not for all games, but most of the major games and Big Name IP .
That's essentially the main reason why SHENMUE won't get released without an exclusive deal behind it. Sega isn't going to take the risk on publishing a title like that, market it and see it flop big time on two platforms.
I would sort of agree, but Shenmue is a very special case, given the costs and size of the project let to be completed. Though there is part of me, that thinks a Multi Platform Shenmue 3 could see a million easy.
And I do wonder how well Shenmue would have sold, if the series launched as X-Box, PS2 Multi-Platform game from the very start
I'd rather see Sega go bust then just to see them reduce to sharing engines like that be it from the same team
It isn't sharing a Engine if Valkyria Team were to make a SOA II They are the team that Made both Val and Skies, and the Canvas engine is theirs .
And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took.
I'll not try and make out it would. I t would be a good step to please the SEGA fans, and a chance for SEGA to make a sequel to a classic IP and not mess it up. The Canvas and Valkyria Team are more than proven this Gen, and it wouldn't be selling out to the west, it would be nice to see a Next Gen sequel to Burning Rangers.
I recall reading in EDGE that Oguchi(i think) wanted the brand to be like coco cola.
That was do with the Colour and SEGA Logo ... Oguchi-san wanted to change the SEGA logo colour and font (to Red & White rather than Blue, hence the Coca-Cola) . Anyway that died a death (good job as SEGA logo is the best there is) along with the ' Back To Origin' Plan, more so after the SAMMY take over.
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Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.
My self, I think it was a lot more to do with it was poor game choice and not a great Studio that made the title (rather than being lazy) SEGA also made a mistake in letting SEGA Europe handle SEGA Rally: That should have been a Arcade title 1st and then ported to Home systems (like Rally II) and made only by SEGA Japan.
That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market themselves. SOA's main strengh really was creating their own IP which hardly happened. Add to the poor choices in teams development that SJ did during his tenure at Sega and what started as a poor decision nearly became a disaster.
There's plenty of mixed messages on the Wii : HOTD sells great, Mad world sells like shit. Big projects and big IP needs to be Multi Platform This generation (that is my own view)
GHOST SQUAD sold good,CONDUIT sold ok as well HOTD arcade sold great, HOTD OK sold strongly in UK but not anywhere else. Sorry but that doesn't make it mixed messages there's still a consistancy.MW was the biggest flop for sega on Wii.
It really is now, more than fair... Konami, Namco, Capcom have all gone Multi and also backed the 360, even though in the PS2 days they were fairly SONY ( also remember SEGA been multi since 2001) ) So have Square and now even the likes of nsomniac games are going Multi.
This generation is different, and in the HD era, you really need to be Multi imo
Not really. The only titles that were multi were really their Sonic collection games, most of the PS2, gC, xbox sega games were exclusives.
I don't see what's wrong in having two or three big project games being multi and a few exclusives as well. YAKUZA just isn't a good example considering on who its aimed at, no viable system to put it on apart from PS2 at the time it launched not a big enough title to justify it being a MP game (IE it won't sell great on the xbox either if at all) and its expense that would have stopped it being a MP from the start.
In terms of Sonic Vs Mario I would agree, in terms of Yakuza or Val I'm not so sure at all; The Consumer Teams are yet to make a Profit and so far all the next gen Yakuza haven't been able to out sell Yakuza II or really grown and move the series forward (the costs invouled also mean that SEGA needs to sell 400,000 copies just to break even) Kenzan would have made no sense, but I would have liked to see Yak III and Val multi Platform from the start.
To try and help get more sales, more PR and help grow the series of games
Which would drive up r and d and marketing costs even more. And sorry it was never going to take one game to pay off for an engine, the budget for the actual game yes but the costs of the engine that both Val and Yakuza operate with, is a long term investment which has been succesful. They dealt seperatly surely you must know that, if a game flops and it had an expensive engine then ultimatly they lost money on the engine too, if it didn't then they can still make profit and the engine can be used for howmany so years. If a game had to make money back on engine costs as well no game would ever make its money back. As for VAl that's more to do with a market shift with RPGs doing well on portable gaming and mobile(supposedly)
Only true Gamer heads will own all 3 systems, for many it will be either the PS3 or 360 (that is why the likes of EA are multi-Platform ) and that's fine. SEGA needs to be allow consumers: be they fans of either the 360 or PS3 be able to play SEGA games, not for all games, but most of the major games and Big Name IP .
Well i don't think everybody had all the systems back in the early eighties either but that didn't stop the crash did it? Yes of course it makes sense but it doesn't to the people who control the market. They do after all have to have an edge on the competition.
I would sort of agree, but Shenmue is a very special case, given the costs and size of the project let to be completed. Though there is part of me, that thinks a Multi Platform Shenmue 3 could see a million easy.
And I do wonder how well Shenmue would have sold, if the series launched as X-Box, PS2 Multi-Platform game from the very start
You're having a laugh, never thought the PS2 would handle it. MP would just add to the costs and the risks would be more higher. But hey, all the other options didn't exactly work either.
It isn't sharing a Engine if Valkyria Team were to make a SOA II They are the team that Made both Val and Skies, and the Canvas engine is theirs .
But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.
And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took.
I'll not try and make out it would. I t would be a good step to please the SEGA fans, and a chance for SEGA to make a sequel to a classic IP and not mess it up. The Canvas and Valkyria Team are more than proven this Gen, and it wouldn't be selling out to the west, it would be nice to see a Next Gen sequel to Burning Rangers.
BR could sell but SOA2? The RPG market is already slumped and the sega base to support a title like this isn't there anymore. That's why i'm saying Sega should try to rebrand itself to get more converts in. That's what they did back in the nineties which brought in the americans and that's what they did with the saturn era that brought the japanese. Nowadays they're not doing that, they haven't made themselves look attractive to anyone outside their fanbase. And actually they haven't acted aggressive enough as a third party IMHO.
Even in saying that its not whether SOA2 could or should comeback the question is how smart is the current Sega regime to use an asset they own effectivly.
That was do with the Colour and SEGA Logo ... Oguchi-san wanted to change the SEGA logo colour and font (to Red & White rather than Blue, hence the Coca-Cola) . Anyway that died a death (good job as SEGA logo is the best there is) along with the ' Back To Origin' Plan, more so after the SAMMY take over.
Yeah that's right. Still can't find the copy but its among those lines.
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The only titles that were multi were really their Sonic collection games, most of the PS2, gC, xbox sega games were exclusives.
You could say that about most of Namco, Konami, Capcom games, most of which were exclusiveness, or led on only 1 Platform.
That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market
I can't work out why Golden Axe was ever chosen, a game like Streets Of Rage would have been a much better to update . SEGA Rally thought to be fair was a pretty badly handle by both SEGA Europe and Japan with reguards to SR on the PS2 and SEGA Rally Revo
Sorry but that doesn't make it mixed messages there's still a consistancy.MW was the biggest flop for sega on Wii.
Don't think it was the biggest flop, but after sales of HOTD they seemed to be a market for Adult games and given the team, the press coverage and Rave reviews I think many were expecting much better sales for Mad World. Its not just a SEGA issues Ubisoft have had issues with the likes of Red Steel II
Which would drive up r and d and marketing costs even more
I think almost every Next Gen game is developed on a PC before put on a Console and now Middleware is good I don't think it was ever such a issue it once was . Did it really matter that Vanquished was developed on the PS3 and ported to the 360 ?, and Val started life out as a 360 game before being moved to the P3
Well i don't think everybody had all the systems back in the early eighties either but that didn't stop the crash did it
Tbh the gaming crash of the 1980's was more to do with Atari selling poor games, and outdated consoles at full retail price
You're having a laugh, never thought the PS2 would handle it.
The Saturn could handle Shenmue, and if the game started life out as PS2 or X-Box title from the start, then any issues over Textures and Memory wouldn't be there
But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.
The Canvas engine has never been fully created on the PSP and doesn't look anywhere near as good. NiGHTS ran on the same engine as Burning Rangers, Assassins Creed engine is used in Prince of Persia; Games can use the same engines and have totally different ART directions, Yakuza engine is clearly being used in Binary Domain
Did it really matter than SEGA made a few Cell Shaded games like JSRF, Sonic Shuffle, Wild Riders, Ollie King ?
BR could sell but SOA2? The RPG market is already slumped and the sega base to support a title like this isn't there anymore.
Very good points and I'll not try and say any of them are wrong. Only that SEGA needs to start to please and support its base/Fans a bit more, and the odd RPG can sell in good numbers.
Namco have had very decent sales with its RPG's series on the PS3 and 360, FF 13 was a monster sell on both ; I'm sure a well produced and well made Multi Platform SOA II could sell more than 500,000 at full price . Sure it not make millions, but it could still sell and please so many , and put a end to the talk that is old SEGA is dead.
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You could say that about most of Namco, Konami, Capcom games, most of which were exclusiveness, or led on only 1 Platform.
Then what's your point then? You're bagging on sega on lack of MPs but everyone else DID the exact same thing and in some cases still doing the same thing which is what i said in the first place. the difference is that the others had time to build up their succesful IP Sega is in the process of doing that. Best way to do that is make a big game exclusive and once its popular enough on one platform release it for all systems. YAKUZA like i said isn't even popular on these shores. YAKUZ OF THE DEAD may help it get over in the west.
That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market
I can't work out why Golden Axe was ever chosen, a game like Streets Of Rage would have been a much better to update . SEGA Rally thought to be fair was a pretty badly handle by both SEGA Europe and Japan with reguards to SR on the PS2 and SEGA Rally Revo
Be thankful they didn't get to SOR.
Don't think it was the biggest flop, but after sales of HOTD they seemed to be a market for Adult games and given the team, the press coverage and Rave reviews I think many were expecting much better sales for Mad World. Its not just a SEGA issues Ubisoft have had issues with the likes of Red Steel II
Overall with the campaign and money put for it it kinda was.
Naw i'd figure after the sales of GS and HOTD that there was a market for arcade ports again. I dunno how people arrived to the conclusion that adult gaming would take off big on Wii because of the success of HOTD which was quite cheap as well.
I think almost every Next Gen game is developed on a PC before put on a Console and now Middleware is good I don't think it was ever such a issue it once was . Did it really matter that Vanquished was developed on the PS3 and ported to the 360 ?, and Val started life out as a 360 game before being moved to the P3
Still essentially a single platform at the end of the day and that was early in the dev cycle.
What you're talking about is after the game is finished coding for both platforms, shipping, printing, etc etc etc.
I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3, myself.
Tbh the gaming crash of the 1980's was more to do with Atari selling poor games, and outdated consoles at full retail price
I said one of the reasons. Yes, too many systems,no real difference between the graphics poor games and all alvailable on all the systems.
The Saturn could handle Shenmue, and if the game started life out as PS2 or X-Box title from the start, then any issues over Textures and Memory wouldn't be there
But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC and that isn't even half the power as SHENMUE as it evolved would require.
But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.
The Canvas engine has never been fully created on the PSP and doesn't look anywhere near as good. NiGHTS ran on the same engine as Burning Rangers, Assassins Creed engine is used in Prince of Persia; Games can use the same engines and have totally different ART directions, Yakuza engine is clearly being used in Binary Domain
To a degree that's true but its still present.
stick to sega games please.
A game you slagged off recently. And those titles differ a lot compared to two games in the same genre. Playwisethey may differ i agree but look wise it would be too similar especially if they use anime/manga style. Look wasn't the point of SOA was to return to JRPG roots and not go in the direction of what they are now? Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.
Did it really matter than SEGA made a few Cell Shaded games like JSRF, Sonic Shuffle, Wild Riders, Ollie King ?
And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it. Sega didn't help matters by doing that granted even for arcade but what made JSF unique had long since gone by 2002. Pity because if people played the actual game it would have made all the difference but its graphics that people judge a game on and while JSF was stunning with the first game, it was passe by 2002. No fault of its own though.
Very good points and I'll not try and say any of them are wrong. Only that SEGA needs to start to please and support its base/Fans a bit more, and the odd RPG can sell in good numbers.
Namco have had very decent sales with its RPG's series on the PS3 and 360, FF 13 was a monster sell on both ; I'm sure a well produced and well made Multi Platform SOA II could sell more than 500,000 at full price . Sure it not make millions, but it could still sell and please so many , and put a end to the talk that is old SEGA is dead.
At what cost? You're dreaming if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss. Val only broke even on the PS3, EoE didn't do as well as hoped either. SOA would probably fair better as a Psp or 3Ds game. If we go with what you said i'd expect it would reach the 200 000 mark (more likely 100 000 and under)
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Then what's your point then? You're bagging on sega on lack of MP
The Point is quite simply, most did act the same, but now then don't even the ones that were once loyal to either SONY or MS, are now muli platform with their IP
Be thankful they didn't get to SOR
Spot on.
What you're talking about is after the game is finished coding for both platforms
What I'm saying is most games can run on each other Platform and there is little to chose between the formats.
I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3,
I don't think it would have made the slightest bit of difference. It was the led Platform after all (so PS3 lost nothing in being Multi)
But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC
Only because it was dropped due to poor sales of the Hardware; Shenmue has a game was developed right up to Shemnmue II on the Saturn . If the game led on the PS2 (there was no DC) then SEGA AM#2 would have adressed and worked around the PS2 textures issues, like they AV did for Yakuza 1 and II
A game you slagged off recently
This game is ?
Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.
Don't see how at all. It would give SOA a picture story book look and feel : Like Eternal Sonata only much, much better. Namco have cartoon graphics on their games like Tales of Vesperia , Sonata and Naruto and they all have their own fans and apple, even those they all use the cartoon look
And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it
That is a slightly different point . My point is that games that share the same sort of shader effects or volume lighting can each still have their own unique appeal and identity
if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss.
Well Yakuza can only sell in that number and I never once see anyone says its makes a loss . Bare a few things in mind too, unlike Val SOA is a well known and respected IP, the PS3 market as matured thanks to the PS3 Slime and being on sale for over 4 years, never mind the 360. I think a well made Muti Platform SOA II could hit at least 500,000 copies, maybe as high as 800,000 at full price
And when I say Multi Platform I mean it . 360, PS3, PSP2 and 3DS.
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The Point is quite simply, most did act the same, but now then don't even the ones that were once loyal to either SONY or MS, are now muli platform with their IP
IP that everyone knows after years of being exclusive and with that building a loyal fanbase. Different scenario, Sega doesn't have many IP to draw from that people beyond sega fandom would want, so they have to build it up. So far their most successful IP YAKUZA and SUPER MONKEY BALL has been able to build on an audience because most of the titles has been available on one platform or one system manufacturer.
What I'm saying is most games can run on each other Platform and there is little to chose between the formats.
Apart from costs. Which is the whole point of why it wouldn't happen.
I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3,
I don't think it would have made the slightest bit of difference. It was the led Platform after all (so PS3 lost nothing in being Multi)
but it did to sega and platinum.
As a third party Sega does need all the new IP it can get to become sucessful franchises. VANQUISH was a missed oppurtunity in my book.
But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC
Only because it was dropped due to poor sales of the Hardware; Shenmue has a game was developed right up to Shemnmue II on the Saturn . If the game led on the PS2 (there was no DC) then SEGA AM#2 would have adressed and worked around the PS2 textures issues, like they AV did for Yakuza 1 and II
Then why didn't Sega simply just port it over with SHENMUE 2 if they were sure the PS2 could handle it?
A game you slagged off recently
This game is ?
BINARY DOMAIN, as i seem to recall you weren't impressed but i could be wrong.
Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.
Don't see how at all. It would give SOA a picture story book look and feel : Like Eternal Sonata only much, much better. Namco have cartoon graphics on their games like Tales of Vesperia , Sonata and Naruto and they all have their own fans and apple, even those they all use the cartoon look
Again not sega games, and none well crafted as the original SOA. I don't want SOA to adopt another game's style, sorry whatever way you look at it doing that would not make it SOA. And really what will happen when SAKURA TAISEN shows up again. It won't show the same style of canvas but has always employed an anime look which VAL employs too. If SOA2 did the same as touted by you to be a big project as are the other two, honestly a casual would be pretty much pressed to tell the difference.
And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it
That is a slightly different point . My point is that games that share the same sort of shader effects or volume lighting can each still have their own unique appeal and identity
Which all flopped because of over exposure of manga dimension and the cel shade look that other companies copied. which in the end is the point. A game that has its own identity and own look will sell a bit better than look like another title with similar graphics. Isn't that what you want at the end of the day for SOA2 to do well?
if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss.
Well Yakuza can only sell in that number and I never once see anyone says its makes a loss . Bare a few things in mind too, unlike Val SOA is a well known and respected IP, the PS3 market as matured thanks to the PS3 Slime and being on sale for over 4 years, never mind the 360. I think a well made Muti Platform SOA II could hit at least 500,000 copies, maybe as high as 800,000 at full price
And when I say Multi Platform I mean it . 360, PS3, PSP2 and 3DS
YAKUZA isn't an RPG.Yakuza is only on one platform. And the first game in the series had a million in unit sales while the rest in the series averages around 500 000 each release. SOA2 would have to have good budget behind it to acheive what you want to see and in a slumped market that only see the big names defy the odds, the game would flop big time. Actually I purpose to go on or start another topic on this subject of third party sega and say what you think/i think they should do. as this has gone off topic a bit from what is meant to be about YAKUZA, don't worry it will be and i'll be civil.
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YAKUZA isn't an RPG.
It's an action RPG I think. You walk around town getting into random battles earning XP to level up, while picking up side-quests from characters along with the main storyline. If the combat was turn based it would be a JRPG through and through.
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IP that everyone knows after years of being exclusive and with that building a loyal fanbase. Different scenario,
So those corps have a bigger following and fanbase to that of SEGA ?. What about the likes of 2K games ?
Apart from costs. Which is the whole point of why it wouldn't happe
You keep on saying this, how much more expensive is developing a game only for 1 platform, compared to developed the title for 2 platforms at the same time and having developed led on the PC ?
Then why didn't Sega simply just port it over with SHENMUE 2 if they were sure the PS2 could handle it?
Because MS came in with a Massive Pile of Cash.
And I'm on about if Shenmue stared life out on the PS2 (no port) and wonder how much better it might have sold.
but it did to sega and platinum
makes no sense , when every PS3 title from Platinum has also been in the 360 including their brand new game. So it doesn't at all look like SEGA is bother about the game also being on the 360
BINARY DOMAIN, as i seem to recall you weren't impressed but i could be wrong
Is it just me, many on this board are not really impressed.
I don't want SOA to adopt another game's style
But it wouldn't, it would still be Skies as long as the Art is maintained and the team are more than able to do that.Space Harrier has its own look, to that of Hang-On, even though they're on the same hardware, by the same team on the same engine.
And really what will happen when SAKURA TAISEN shows up again
Fans will no doubt be happy as long as its well made. Sakura Taisen 3/4 and SOA were both on the DC made by the same team (none of us know if the tech wasn't shared) and they both had their own appeal and each had their own set on fans. In just the same way Manx TT and Sega Rally had their own fans, different appeal and own speical Art. Again Games made by the same team, running on much the same engine and much the same Board
YAKUZA isn't an RPG.
It is a action RPG, lets face it.
Which all flopped because of over exposure of manga dimension and the cel shade look that other companies copied.
How many Japanese RPG's all tended to look much the same, more so in the 2D days. some sell, other don't. It happens
And the first game in the series had a million in unit sales while the rest in the series averages around 500 000 each release
The 2nd game in the series has sold the best ( I think) , and none of the next Gen series as match those figures . The series hasn't grown or moved forward in terms of sales in those requards
Just try it once as a Multi Platform to see if that can get any more interest in the series; I really can not work out why you're so against people like Sharky being able to play the Yakuza series on his console .
It's not a dig , I dislike SONY , but I have no issues buying their hardware or SEGA supporting them anymore, I like to see SEGA go more Multi on the Wii and 3DS even though I totally dislike NCL
I want SEGA to get the best possible sales, the best and widest PR and Press coverage and for all SEGA fans to be able to play SEGA games, not matter the console they own
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Yakuza IS an RPG in every defenition of the word.
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Yeah, Yakuza is an RPG. Heavy on characters and story, has leveling up and all the other stuff you see in basically every other RPG.
It has no elements that are not RPG-like, outside of MAYBE minigames.
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Yakuza is an arcade adventure, Sega has never described it as being an RPG.
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Yakuza is an arcade adventure, Sega has never described it as being an RPG.
They haven't described it as an RPG, but when you break it down it's pretty much a JRPG through and through (right down to the random battle encounters), the only difference is that the action isn't turn based.
Why do you feel it's not an RPG? I can understand the combat not being very RPG-like, but that's why I see it as an Action RPG.
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I keep saying this but its a hybrid of arcade style play and RPG or arcade adventure for short. A lot of games like this were described as being such back in the eighties including some of the Wonder Boy games. Now apparently the term is "action adventure". but i'm use to it being called arcade adventure since that was the term used when i was growing up.
Besides, the game isn't an out and out RPG like SAKURA TAISEN SHINING FORCE and DRAGON FORCE and even SHENMUE.
Break it down its essentially SPIKEOUT with JRPG trappings with the mini games thrown in. The games do lean more of the RPG side rather than the action side but that usually happens in hybrids, sometimes the action is emphasised than the RPG elements.
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You're talking nonsense ROJM. There are many JRPG's that have their own take on random battles. The "tales of" series also have action packed sorta hack and slash battles. Just because it's a different way of battling doesn't make the game "arcade". The game is not arcade in the slightest. There is nothing arcade about yakuza. Arcade games are mostly games that you could play in the arcade. Yakuza is not one of those games. You could say that the battles are remenisent to beat em ups(like streets of rage) and state that as the reason to why it's partially an arcade game, but you could say that about any part of any game. I could say that tales of symphonia is an arcade something because the random battles are arcadey. That doesn't make it an arcade game all of a sudden, it's still an RPG. Yakuza is also an RPG in every way. Is it because forest, woods and great world maps are missing?
And it's also funny how you mention shenmue. So how about that game, the battles in that game are arcadey too right? Shenmue is defenitly an arcade game........ no not really.
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I do not want to get into the debate what is and what is not an RPG but in Japanese arcades a game like Yakuza is very much possible thanks to membership cards.
Over a decade ago something like Quest of D would not be playable in the arcades, present technologies in the arcades allows titles like that, Border Break and Shining Force Cross to be played in the arcade. These store what levels you've unlocked, abilities, items and even experience level. So something like Yakuza now is totally possible in the arcades.
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I keep saying this but its a hybrid of arcade style play and RPG or arcade adventure for short. A lot of games like this were described as being such back in the eighties including some of the Wonder Boy games. Now apparently the term is "action adventure". but i'm use to it being called arcade adventure since that was the term used when i was growing up.
The term for Yakuza if one is to use SEGA own spin is 'Action Adventure', that's what is down on SOJ website.
Everyone knows this is a RPG deep down. Do people see Panzer Dragoon Saga as an RPG, or a Arcade shooter ? , Shenmue II a RPG or a VS Fighter , Sonic Adv as a Platform game or a RPG, Exhumed as a RPG or a FPS , Valkyrie has a RPG or RTS game, Sakura Wars as RPG or a Dating game
Over a decade ago something like Quest of D would not be playable in the arcades, present technologies in the arcades allows titles like that
True but Machines like NA@MI allowed users to use their own VMU in the Arcades , so one could have save data that way. Much like how SNK users could sue their Memory card on both the AES and MVS
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You do have a point there AKI. However those examples you've stated are still pretty quick to play and have a lot more emphasis on action. I'd say a phantasy star online would fit perfectly within that list. A yakuza however is pretty slowpaced overall and I don't think anyone goes to an arcade to slowly explore every corner of the cities and watch a lot of cutscenes.
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You're talking nonsense ROJM. There are many JRPG's that have their own take on random battles. The "tales of" series also have action packed sorta hack and slash battles. Just because it's a different way of battling doesn't make the game "arcade". The game is not arcade in the slightest. There is nothing arcade about yakuza. Arcade games are mostly games that you could play in the arcade. Yakuza is not one of those games. You could say that the battles are remenisent to beat em ups(like streets of rage) and state that as the reason to why it's partially an arcade game, but you could say that about any part of any game. I could say that tales of symphonia is an arcade something because the random battles are arcadey. That doesn't make it an arcade game all of a sudden, it's still an RPG. Yakuza is also an RPG in every way. Is it because forest, woods and great world maps are missing?
And it's also funny how you mention shenmue. So how about that game, the battles in that game are arcadey too right? Shenmue is defenitly an arcade game........ no not really.
Study about games history before you start mouthing off on something you have no idea of.Riduculous reply especially the SOR bit.
Arcade adventure is just the term used for a game that combines real time action like beat em up or platform and RPG/puzzle elements. action adventure is what people call them now and you even strecth that to action RPGs if you want.
YAKUZA has never been classed as an RPG, despite you lot thinking you know better than the people who classified the genre the game is in.
BTW,what also shows the ignorance is the fact you think the term actually applies to it being from or originated from actual arcades. It doesn't and never has. AAD games originated on consoles.
I keep saying this but its a hybrid of arcade style play and RPG or arcade adventure for short. A lot of games like this were described as being such back in the eighties including some of the Wonder Boy games. Now apparently the term is "action adventure". but i'm use to it being called arcade adventure since that was the term used when i was growing up.
The term for Yakuza if one is to use SEGA own spin is 'Action Adventure', that's what is down on SOJ website.
Everyone knows this is a RPG deep down. Do people see Panzer Dragoon Saga as an RPG, or a Arcade shooter ? , Shenmue II a RPG or a VS Fighter , Sonic Adv as a Platform game or a RPG, Exhumed as a RPG or a FPS , Valkyrie has a RPG or RTS game, Sakura Wars as RPG or a Dating game
Over a decade ago something like Quest of D would not be playable in the arcades, present technologies in the arcades allows titles like that
True but Machines like NA@MI allowed users to use their own VMU in the Arcades , so one could have save data that way. Much like how SNK users could sue their Memory card on both the AES and MVS
And you know that genres become so blurred that sometimes its impossible to tell the difference. SONIC ADVENTURE is also classed as an arcade adventure/action adventure, as well though the game's emphasis is on the action more than its puzzle/rpg elements. Its funny how people in this forum said it was more like a 3D SOR when people played it when it first came out and now its an out and out RPG? Give me a break. its not, Sega doesn't see it as such either.
The fact the action is in real time,not turn based, hardly random either as well as the other elements as the minigames which definatly aren't RPG essentially doesn't make the game an out and out RPG.
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The fact the action is in real time,not turn based, hardly random either as well as the other elements as the minigames which definatly aren't RPG essentially doesn't make the game an out and out RPG.
So, like Valkyria Chronicles and Sakura Taisen?
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Moving on...
I would say the likelihood of The Yakuza of the Dead (that better be the damn title!!) having a release outside of Japan now is pretty much a given, but do any of you think there is a chance that it will not?
I mean, it would be a major bummer as me and a friend literally bought the console almost entirely because of this series, if Yakuza 4 is the last one to come, or last for awhile to be released here... That would really, really, really suck.
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VC adopts turnbased and real time. SAKURA TAISEN gameplay has kinda changed the later the series went on and besides ST was always described as being a hybrid game,RPG (SRPG)date sim but in time its just been labelled an RPG. As for YAKUZA, Officially the game is an AAD, some fans call it an RPG, others call it an ARPG. I'm calling it as i see it. But at the end of the day Sega doesn't label it being an RPG so I really dunno what the hoola is about.
YAKUZA has RPG elements, like the talking,exploration a kind of levelling up(if we must call it that) but it has obvious arcade style beat em up elements and a variety of mini games in it as well plus the social aspect of the game with the hostesses which can become a game upon itself. Discounting the hostess bit its still a game with various genres involved in the game unlike many RPGs out there.
As for YAKUZA OF THE DEAD, its pretty obvious doncha think because zombies will be more easier to sell to western gamers than the series has managed so far in its main form
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It proves it wasn't bullshit and how Sonic has appeared in plenty of non ST games. Also it's nothing new, SEGA has a long history of multiple cameos... be that the Hang-On bike in After Burner or Chicken Leg in Golden Axe ECT .
You can't count Sonic since he is the company mascot. Barring YAKUZA and a few others, Sega cameos usually only extend to games that team created or worked on. Most people see FIGHTERS MEGAMIX being a sega crossover but in reality it was an AM2 crossover game because all the characters in that game were either created by AM2 or as in the case of SONIC THE FIGHTERS were worked on by that team. GOLDEN AXE shared the same team as ALTERED BEAST remember. And as for second party Sega characters they hardly get a look in. I'd like to see more cameos in future be it one that was a character not created by that team(After all the team working on YAKUZA did work on JSR)or include second party characters like Max from SHINING FORCE or even BAYONETTA in a main sega game. Other than that and references to other games of course which are nortorious with sega developers including them in their games
As for SOR. No, SOR is an answer to final fight, but the game itself is more double dragon mixed in with golden axe rather than FF. When the series starts taking real riffs out of FF is in the second and third parts. The only elements from FF is more of the character design of half of the enemy sprites and other elements.
As for a HOTD reference why not? Though it would be pretty obvious and from what i've seen of the game, there definatly are gaijins(westerners) in the game. Afterall this is the AMS mandate to tackle things of this nature. Of course according to HOTD lore, G is retired by now and Rogan startedhaving a family and they don't meet up till HOTD 3 which takes place in 2013. But that wouldn't matter in a game like this.
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YAKUZA has never been classed as an RPG, despite you lot thinking you know better than the people who classified the genre the game is in.
Its not classed as a Arcade Adventures either. Its classed as a Action Adventure by SEGA.
AAD games originated on consoles.
What about WonderBoy II . And do you really think Sonic Adv and Yakuza play the same?, even though they're both classed as AAD games by SEGA Japan .
this forum said it was more like a 3D SOR when people played it when it first came out and now its an out and out RPG
I've already said its SOR/Spikeout meets a RPG .
The fact the action is in real time,not turn based, hardly random either as well as the other elements as the minigames which definatly aren't RPG essentially doesn't make the game an out and out RPG.
There's plenty of RPG's that have real Time Combat like the likes of Fable, Mass Effect 2 for starters . Plenty of RPG's that have Mini games and have done for years.
I really don't know why you get so Hyped that Yakuza plays a lot a like a RPG; Like some how that's a bad thing ?
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You can't count Sonic since he is the company mascot. Barring YAKUZA and a few others, Sega cameos usually only extend to games that team created or worked on
We can count SONIC and there's been lots of Cameos in SEGA games, mostly made by the people that 1st made the game in the 1st place, but there is always exceptions to the rule , like ORTA being in OutRun SP tours , A who's who of SEGA in SEGAGAGA (most of which not by AM#3)
The simple face is there's been plenty of SEGA game in the past with Cameo's
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And it's also funny how you mention shenmue. So how about that game, the battles in that game are arcadey too right? Shenmue is defenitly an arcade game........ no not really.
Study about games history before you start mouthing off on something you have no idea of.Riduculous reply especially the SOR bit.
Arcade adventure is just the term used for a game that combines real time action like beat em up or platform and RPG/puzzle elements. action adventure is what people call them now and you even strecth that to action RPGs if you want.
YAKUZA has never been classed as an RPG, despite you lot thinking you know better than the people who classified the genre the game is in.
BTW,what also shows the ignorance is the fact you think the term actually applies to it being from or originated from actual arcades. It doesn't and never has. AAD games originated on consoles.
Okay so let me ask you this since you still didn't answer that part of my post. What makes shenmue more of an RPG compared to Yakuza? I personally find them to be very similar, especially since the camera view has changed from yakuza 3.
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Its not classed as a Arcade Adventures either. Its classed as a Action Adventure by SEGA.
Action Adventure is an arcade adventure.
What about WonderBoy II . And do you really think Sonic Adv and Yakuza play the same?, even though they're both classed as AAD games by SEGA Japan .
AAD predates Wonderboy 2, another game you said wasn't one I recall. And the last comment is so riduculous. Final Fight and Streetfighter are both beat em ups yet they're both different. :roll:
this forum said it was more like a 3D SOR when people played it when it first came out and now its an out and out RPG
I've already said its SOR/Spikeout meets a RPG .
Which is what an arcade adventure is.
The fact the action is in real time,not turn based, hardly random either as well as the other elements as the minigames which definatly aren't RPG essentially doesn't make the game an out and out RPG.
There's plenty of RPG's that have real Time Combat like the likes of Fable, Mass Effect 2 for starters . Plenty of RPG's that have Mini games and have done for years.
Let's stick to Sega shall we? I know you can't since you know little about them.
I really don't know why you get so Hyped that Yakuza plays a lot a like a RPG; Like some how that's a bad thing ?
Let's over exaggerate everything again shall we. The game is not i repeat not an RPG. Sega doesn't class it as one, the game certainly does not PLAY like one despite the SHENMUE comparisions. Now get that over your head.
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Final Fight and Streetfighter are both beat em ups yet they're both different
Well one is classed as beat them up and one as a VS Fighter. I've seen Zelda and Skies of Arcadia both classed as RPG's, even though they're both very different in gameplay.
Wonderboy 2, another game you said wasn't one I recall.
Wonder Boy 2 could be classed as an action Adventure(which is exactly what it is, in gameplay terms) I rather say its an Action RPG.
arcade adventure
That is a bit misleading for a game like SOR, a game that never appeared in the Arcades , thought I'm sure you bring up MegaTech.
The game is not i repeat not an RPG. Sega doesn't class it as one, the game certainly does not PLAY like one despite the SHENMUE comparisions.
The game plays a lot like Shenmue II and a lot like an RPG and its not the only game to feature real time battles; Mass Effect II plays a lot like GOW or Vanquished, yet is classed as RPG.
And its classed by SEGA as 'Action Adventure', when you liked to class it as Arcade adventure. In the end most will see it as an Modern day RPG
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I'd classify Yakuza 1-3 (the only ones I've played) as RPG's.
- You level up by fighting, and gaining stats.
- You acquire new skills as you level up
- You beat various quests that progress the main story along.
- You chat with the various denizens of the world you inhabit.
- When an enemy sees you on the overworld, you go into a battle screen.
- The biggest difference between Yakuza's gameplay and most RPG's, is that the battle system is a 3d beat 'em up instead of something turn based.
The RPG genre's pretty loose in definition nowaday's anyway.
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^As SOUP said, RPG genre is pretty loose, as is almost every other genre nowadays. While there are some that still fall right into a set category, I think a lot of games these days are really hard to define.
Is Assassin's Creed a stealth game, platformer or action game for example?
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You can define it as you want, Sega defines it as an arcade/action adventure.
Not like the new game which is classified in the same genre is going to play like the others. Soup's last bit of the description is the bare knuckles of what genre the game Sega classed it in anyways. its like nobody here has even heard of an AAD.
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We can count SONIC and there's been lots of Cameos in SEGA games, mostly made by the people that 1st made the game in the 1st place, but there is always exceptions to the rule , like ORTA being in OutRun SP tours , A who's who of SEGA in SEGAGAGA (most of which not by AM#3)
The simple face is there's been plenty of SEGA game in the past with Cameo's
Let's see what i originally said shall we.
You can't count Sonic since he is the company mascot. Barring YAKUZA and a few others, Sega cameos usually only extend to games that team created or worked on
Again for good measure..
You can't count Sonic since he is the company mascot. Barring YAKUZA and a few others, Sega cameos usually only extend to games that team created or worked on
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So you reply to that post saying the exact same thing I said. How sad. Just can't help but to spin eh? And Sonic is the main exception because he's the face of Sega now so he'll be in lots of games whether the developer likes it or not. That's why its not worth counting him, since the gist of the post is other characters in sega's portfolio cameoing in other games as Sega Uranus was eluding to or whoever said it.
Sonic does not count since anyone in sega can use him, even Sega europe and america. Cameos mostly only are within the team that created the game. Until you have sega characters/crossovers from all over the sega spectrum be it inhouse or second party. One of the reasons the Capcom vs games are popular is the inclusion of a lot of characters from capcom's past be they from their first division to their second division. You don't get that from Sega hardly. So until we have a cameo from Gunstar heroes and bayonetta mixing it with Akira and billy hatcher mixing it with Decap attack and Ecco, then we can say that Sega fully cameos and crossover. Until then they don't.
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Hmm, you know, I am not gonna make it more complicated than it should be. If SEGA calls it that what they call it, I guess that's what it is.
Though I do gotta say that I like Yakuza as an rpg game.
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Game companies always say stuff to make their games sell in a specific market or so they can make them seem more important in some cases. Like how Nintendo calls Smash Brothers a fighting game, when it is clearly a platormer/beat em up.
All of the reasons SOUP pointed out pretty much solidifying the series being an RPG. Besides, outside of the second game, you do not really travel or exchange much money in the series, not much of an adventure.
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Even the term "Adventure" is extremely broad. I mean, you could probably categorise 90% of games as 'Adventure'.
Halo is an adventure through space for example, it just so happens to have guns in it.
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Game companies always say stuff to make their games sell in a specific market or so they can make them seem more important in some cases. Like how Nintendo calls Smash Brothers a fighting game, when it is clearly a platormer/beat em up.
All of the reasons SOUP pointed out pretty much solidifying the series being an RPG. Besides, outside of the second game, you do not really travel or exchange much money in the series, not much of an adventure.
No it doesn't. If an AAD was from the west for example the focus would be more on the action side, from japan its obvious that the RPG elements are given more focus especially when genres evolve and start to blur, it doesn't make one an RPG however. SHENMUE for pace alone is an RPG where RGG has always had a bit of urgency to it. But its pointless to argue about it considering that is what Sega never defined it as and in a market full of RPGs in a country that's crazy about them, sega could easily cashed in and advertised this game as one, which makes your original point,moot.
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So you reply to that post saying the exact same thing I said
I simply said there's been plenty of Cameo's in SEGA games, which they simply have been.
Sonic does not count since anyone in sega can use him
No you still need permission (or at least notify) the Sonic Team to use Sonic, just like you would with any of the SEGA Teams who hold the rights to the IP. One of the biggest pains to making Segagaga was just that
So until we have a cameo from Gunstar heroes
Gunstar heroes eh, The GBA game had a ton of SEGA reference's and even Cameo music from the likes of AfterBuner.
One of the reasons the Capcom vs games are popular is the inclusion of a lot of characters from capcom's past be they from their first division to their second division
Yes that is very true and also all helped with the fact that in the old days Capcom, The Coin Up division was all on the same floor and one Big Team, unlike SEGA which split it teams and let them have their own separate teams and heads.
You don't get that from Sega hardly.
That's only because SEGA had made so little , what we've had Fighters Megamix and the likes of SEGA Racing and Tennis. That's just shows how dull SEGA Japan is sometimes. We should have had a Fighters Megamix 2 and a racers Mega Mix from SEGA Japan years ago
SHENMUE for pace alone is an RPG where RGG has always had a bit of urgency to it. But its pointless to argue about it considering that is what Sega never defined it as and in a market full of RPGs
There are both paced much the same, look much the same and play a lot like each other. They're both RPG's despite what the PR teams will label them as . Some people see D2 has survival Horror, but that game plays more like a RPG than Resident Evil. I've seen Exhumed down as FPS (and I class it as one) when if any game is an adventure game , that is one , is Zelda really an RPG, same for Dark Saviour (they play more like Platform Adventure games to me) but everyone classes them a RPG's
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Game companies always say stuff to make their games sell in a specific market or so they can make them seem more important in some cases. Like how Nintendo calls Smash Brothers a fighting game, when it is clearly a platormer/beat em up.
All of the reasons SOUP pointed out pretty much solidifying the series being an RPG. Besides, outside of the second game, you do not really travel or exchange much money in the series, not much of an adventure.
No it doesn't. If an AAD was from the west for example the focus would be more on the action side, from japan its obvious that the RPG elements are given more focus especially when genres evolve and start to blur, it doesn't make one an RPG however. SHENMUE for pace alone is an RPG where RGG has always had a bit of urgency to it. But its pointless to argue about it considering that is what Sega never defined it as and in a market full of RPGs in a country that's crazy about them, sega could easily cashed in and advertised this game as one, which makes your original point,moot.
Pacing?
Just because a game is "Slow" does not make it an RPG. Mass Effect 2 is damn fast, and that is an RPG.
I would consider Shenmue more of an open world game, myself. Much of the design in that is still to this day fairly unique, it does not play like any RPG in particular. Shenmue City is a different story, though.
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You clearly don't get it. RPGs or proper ones, emphasis is about exploration as well as completing whatever quest you are on hence the pace. While you can explore(if you can call it that) in YAKUZA that isn't really the emphasis of the title.
As for SHENMUE, one game is similar to it and that's RENT A HERO.
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You clearly don't get it. RPGs or proper ones, emphasis is about exploration as well as completing whatever quest you are on hence the pace. While you can explore(if you can call it that) in YAKUZA that isn't really the emphasis of the title.
Final Fantasy XIII.
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FF stopped being a proper RPG years ago.
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You clearly don't get it. RPGs or proper ones, emphasis is about exploration as well as completing whatever quest you are on hence the pace
The very 1st RPG were text adventures and one could hardly explore the world in those. There are many different types of RPG's all with different pacing and battles, like they are many FPS, but lots with different pacing and in some cases fighting systems
FF stopped being a proper RPG years ago.
Yes, yes. But its still listed by the developer and retail as a RPG.
As for SHENMUE, one game is similar to it and that's RENT A HERO
I think Rent a Hero plays far more like Spikeout myself, and tbh there not many games that play or feel like Shenmue, the closest is Yakuza and Omikron (that is just my view) Such a shame Shenmue never sold the way it should have :(
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FF stopped being a proper RPG years ago.
- You level up by fighting, and gaining stats.
- You acquire new skills as you level up
- You beat various quests that progress the main story along.
- You chat with the various denizens of the world you inhabit.
- When an enemy sees you on the overworld, you go into a battle screen.
The RPG genre's pretty loose in definition nowaday's anyway.
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The very 1st RPG were text adventures and one could hardly explore the world in those. There are many different types of RPG's all with different pacing and battles, like they are many FPS, but lots with different pacing and in some cases fighting systems
Wrong, the first RPGs were the board and dice games like D+D.
And YAKUZA isn't an RPG. That's the point.
Yes, yes. But its still listed by the developer and retail as a RPG.
Never said it wasn't one. I said it stopped being a proper RPG. Funny how readily you accept FF as being an RPG because the developer lists it as one but can't give the same courtesy to Sega.
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Wrong, the first RPGs were the board and dice games like D+D.
And YAKUZA isn't an RPG
And the very 1st games we no doubt not electronic based, and AD&D just show American and the west created RPG's long before the Japanese.
I said it stopped being a proper RPG
It's a RPG alright , just one that's been poorly made
FF as being an RPG because the developer lists it as one but can't give the same courtesy to Sega.
I was just using your logic, that if the PR say it, it must be true. I really don't see Zelda as an RPG, even if its listed as one