SEGAbits Forums

Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nirmugen on February 23, 2015, 10:05:19 pm

Title: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on February 23, 2015, 10:05:19 pm
Have you ever been asking yourself about how or why the japanese gaming industry changed so much that now they are in a big inflexion point where the home gaming console and even the handheld market are in danger to disappear or be in a really weak position in the long term and how this
affect the whole industry?


Well, maybe with this info we can have a point of discussion and reasoning about that.


Last week, 4gamer, a gaming JP website, posted an article about some research of the last quater of the fiscal year (http://gamebiz.jp/?p=140245) maded to what they know as "The Big 6" (Bandai-Namco, Sega-Sammy, Square-Enix, Konami, Capcom and Koei-Tecmo) which years ago they were "the Big 5" but a new company was considerated this time.


In the 3Q, Square-Enix was the company which has the best improvement in sales/profits than last year 3Q results.


(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/29210485854e1bfcd7f97e0011.jpg)


In order (up to down) : Koei-Tecmo, Sega-Sammy, Bandai-Namco, Square-Enix, Capcom and Konami


But this isn't the more important part of the article.


If we put things in perspective, 3Q-4Q (Holiday-Winter-first weeks of Spring) are the most important period for the home console market in Japan.


Sales and income are really big and the companies has their part of the market more lucrative that time. Look the comparisons between them in the 3Q period of last year:


(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/85633516654e1cef6905770011.jpg)


Sales of 3Q for "the Big 6". In order (from left to right): Bandai-Namco, Sega-Sammy, Konami, Square-Enix, Capcom and Koei-Tecmo.

(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/23751218654e1cf055cdc80011.jpg)


Income of 3Q for "the Big 6". In order: Bandai-Namco, Sega-Sammy, Square-Enix, Konami, Capcom and Koei-Temco.

The position of the companies in both graphics have notorious differences.


-Bamco is a monster in sales and income, almost the double of the sales and the triple of the income of SS in that period.
-SS stood in their own with a really good portion of the sales and income.
-SE lost in sales with Konami but they have a good income.
-Konami had strong sales but a weak performance in income.
-Capcom was the weakest and the lowest in comparison with the first four but they had the same income as Konami.
-Koei-Tecmo had they best quarter in years with an improvement in both areas but the lowest part of market for being less porwerful that the others.


Now, here is the thing, although the market move billions of yens/dollars, if we compare this results with the 3 most prominent developers of the mobile market (GungHo, Mixi and Colopl, each one of them with a  single strong app) in the same period of time, the results speak for themselves:


(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/127955904754e1d343d8e9b0011.jpg)


Sales of 3Q: In order (from left to right): Bandai-Namco, Sega-Sammy, Konami, GungHo, Square-Enix, Mixi, Colopl and Koei-Tecmo.

(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/10467105354e1d2fc2fe890011.jpg)


Income of 3Q. In order (from left to right): GungHo, Bandai-Namco, Mixi, Colopl, Sega-Sammy, Square-Enix, Capcom, Konami and Koei-Tecmo.

-GungHo maybe didn't have the same amount of sales like Bamco but they surpassed them in income and that was a lot of money in their pocket.
-Both Mixi and Colopl have the same amount of sales as Capcom but they surpassed SS in income.


And to put the icing on the cake, this 3 companies have the same amount of sales/profits almost every quarter.

So, we can see clearly why many companies choose the invest more and more in mobiles.


Is this the principal reason of the big change? No, not at all.


See, I wait to the 3Q results for a reason: Home console and handheld gaming market can to be profitable in this period but in the 3/4 of the rest of the year will not happen the same.

If a company has a strong part of the mobile market, they have the same privilege as the other mobile gaming companies , although not the same sales/profits but a good one.


Just see how Bamco and SS has their FY in terms of profits for packaged software (blue) and digital software (red).


Bandai-Namco:

(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/206634473154e1db9ca67b20011.jpg)


Sega-Sammy:

(http://i2.gamebiz.jp/images/original/105783861554e1d7eed61580011.jpg)


Well, that is for this OP. Any questions?
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Deefy on February 23, 2015, 11:53:03 pm
Great thread Nirmugen, I am aware of the situation you reported (that you have well-argued) regarding the Japanese gaming business, but I am convinced that many Western players are poorly informed on the subject or that in some cases they deluded still trying desperately not to look at what is already the present.

Having said that, the trend not only in Japan but throughout Asia and we can also say the West is that of the mobile gaming and this doesn't make me absolutely pleased but the worst and I reiterate for well concerns SEGA that in addition to behold relegated for years now to the secondary core business in the hierarchies holding, it seen to divert the bulk of its force development towards mobile gaming and worse still, a lot of resources in the direction of future mega casino centers, resort and other amenities like that.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Mariano on February 24, 2015, 06:42:56 pm
Nice topic man  :)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on February 24, 2015, 07:40:35 pm
OK. Why does Namco-bandai make so much cash. Explain someone.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on February 24, 2015, 09:11:44 pm
Animu, George. Toys (Bandai is the biggest toy manufacter in the world) and merchandising of popular animus....and they owned Gundam, the quintessential mecha series.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on February 24, 2015, 09:56:33 pm
So not because of games? Figured that much out.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on February 25, 2015, 12:03:35 am
Well, we can put anime  games in the merchandising side of Bamco. In reality, is the same thing.

Namco-not Bandai related- games doesn't sell well this day btw.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on February 25, 2015, 03:43:09 am
Well it's not SS make so much because of games...
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on February 25, 2015, 04:30:43 am
They make games?
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on February 25, 2015, 06:02:49 am
One thing is to note is that Sega build their own brands, where Namco Bandai just licensed stuff. Gundam is their biggest arcade seller, all of Sega's big arcade sellers are their own IP.

I mean the big brands in Japan for Sega such as Yakuza, Border Break, Sangoku Taisen, WCCF, PSO2 and Chain Chronicle are all Sega's home grown IP. Not to mention Sega kicked off the kids arcade game market with their own IP as well several years ago. They made their own characters to sell characters to children, instead of say, just licensing Yu-G-Oh.

Miku is the sole exception.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on February 25, 2015, 02:16:53 pm
I think some of those brands could have been global brands if SEGA wasn't so stuck with that 'us (japanese) vs them' attitude. I really do believe that Border Break port would do great on Steam, they would eat up a Japanese mech shooting game, I think we all know that PHantasy Star Online 2 would have done well, and Chain Chronicles has its popularity already here.

Such a shame. Maybe one day SEGA will have a decent marketing firm and people that believe in their internal brands instead of licensing Alien games.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on February 25, 2015, 04:20:34 pm
I think now with the son of Hatomi and the President of TMS on charge in Sega, many ideas could be approved in the future.

I mean, this two guys made a bunch of good decisions the last couple years with Sega Networks and reiforcing the TMS brand with strong material.

Also, we know that Sega got their "contacts" in the 90's. Maybe know they could use it for a good reason.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on February 26, 2015, 06:19:17 am
I don't know, Naoya Tsurumi strategy was to throw anything at the wall and see what sticks when retail was viable, and arcades where carrying them.

Now, Hideki Okumura and Haruki Satomi are going for "market-savy" and "profitable".
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 04, 2015, 04:09:49 pm
Well, now Konami (the company with the great sales but low profits) is gonna be "reorganized" a.k.a Full digital mobile and PC Online: http://www.konami-digital-entertainment.co.jp/en/news/release/2015/0303/?cm_sp=01-_-release-_-20150303-e


Kojima apparently expressed about this future change with the "no more MGS" response, although he maded this claim after the release of MGS4. Well maybe the ex-Castelvania producer could tell us about th-wait, he already did it.


Calling the media to report about that.....nobody...really? Even if it is relevant like the Sega deal?....no clickbait-a-like with this news I pressume.


Who's next? I choose Capcom....
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 04, 2015, 06:08:18 pm
Well, now Konami (the company with the great sales but low profits) is gonna be "reorganized" a.k.a Full digital mobile and PC Online: http://www.konami-digital-entertainment.co.jp/en/news/release/2015/0303/?cm_sp=01-_-release-_-20150303-e

Interesting but it doesn't seem to be much in terms of job losses so far, we shall see in the coming days, they may just not have announced axing any personals just yet.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: inthesky on March 09, 2015, 08:36:32 pm
I love Koei Tecmo and I hope to see them continue but I wonder how in the world they keep themselves going

Well, now Konami (the company with the great sales but low profits) is gonna be "reorganized" a.k.a Full digital mobile and PC Online: http://www.konami-digital-entertainment.co.jp/en/news/release/2015/0303/?cm_sp=01-_-release-_-20150303-e


Kojima apparently expressed about this future change with the "no more MGS" response, although he maded this claim after the release of MGS4. Well maybe the ex-Castelvania producer could tell us about th-wait, he already did it.


Calling the media to report about that.....nobody...really? Even if it is relevant like the Sega deal?....no clickbait-a-like with this news I pressume.


Who's next? I choose Capcom....

Maybe I'm ignorant to the implied meaning of these things, but I can't discern immediately what the meaning of these restructurings are. Unless someone is familiar with Japanese gaming industry (the practice of corporate politics, more specifically, I guess) or Konami's management, it might be hard to know what those mean. For most of these executives' former positions it doesn't say what department they were previously from, it's not specified what "Production Divisions 1/2/3" do, etc.

The best I could try and guess is that perhaps "shifting production to a headquarters-based system" could possibly mean less arcade machines/slot stuff but I don't even know if they make those still.

I would've already assumed that Konami is straying from their legacy IPs and dedicated game platform development by the decreases in output for stuff for the old IPs, etc. No ZOE, Contra, Castlevania, etc. Silent Hill new game would be more of an anomaly.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 18, 2015, 04:38:32 pm
Actually it seems Nirmugen was bang on the money somewhat, it seems likely Konami are going to be releasing even LESS consumer games as key staff for the Tokimeki Memorial and Love Plus series have now left them;

https://twitter.com/RyougaSaotome/status/577305368264474625
https://twitter.com/RyougaSaotome/status/577305613060812802

Infact the news got so big Konami even put out a press release for it! http://www.konami.jp/osirase/150318/ saying that both are still very important series for Konami... Which is why we had to get rid of key team members I'm sure : P
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on March 18, 2015, 04:59:06 pm
The Japanese gaming industry is in such a damp is that developing games such as Miracle Girl Festival is considered higher end now for Japanese only games (full 3d modeling for various anime series)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 18, 2015, 05:36:03 pm
The Japanese gaming industry is in such a damp is that developing games such as Miracle Girl Festival is considered higher end now for Japanese only games (full 3d modeling for various anime series)

It's a sad state of affairs isn't it? Or rather par the course. The Japanese mobile market is bigger than the traditional gaming market in Japan... And that's including hardware in the traditional gaming markets sales! Software sales mobile vs traditional is almost 2 to 1.

I don't think Japan is going to be making a comeback anytime soon unless their indie scene really kicks off.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 19, 2015, 08:55:56 am
Now the media is talking about the "rumor" of Kojina leaving Konami in the end.

I hate when I have the reason but it was inevitable when clickbait articles only talk about that and not the whole thing in an analysis or report post.

Choose next, guys. Capcom will be buy it or ultrastreamlined?
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 09:09:18 am
Now the media is talking about the "rumor" of Kojina leaving Konami in the end.

I hate when I have the reason but it was inevitable when clickbait articles only talk about that and not the whole thing in an analysis or report post.

Choose next, guys. Capcom will be buy it or ultrastreamlined?

Haha I was about to post this!

Worrying times for Konami. But according to some people at least their better off than SEGA, I mean they have brand new technologies and a series that dwarfs several SEGA series, they'll be fine right, but SEGA? DOOMED.

I should stress though Konami itself is fine, but their console future? That's start to look more and more grim...
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: CrazyT on March 19, 2015, 09:31:33 am
^what the...

Whoah. Thats kind of sad, seeing how ambitious mgs 5 is looking. Its sad to learn how companies can be in real trouble despite them appearing healthy.

Im still mad about what they did to castlevania. A 2d series turned into expensive and flawed AAA games. Decisions like that baffle me because castlevania didnt seem like an expensive franchise.

Hope mgs5 does really well
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 10:00:21 am
^what the...

Whoah. Thats kind of sad, seeing how ambitious mgs 5 is looking. Its sad to learn how companies can be in real trouble despite them appearing healthy.

Im still mad about what they did to castlevania. A 2d series turned into expensive and flawed AAA games. Decisions like that baffle me because castlevania didnt seem like an expensive franchise despite attempts from the N64 onwards.

Hope mgs5 does really well

2D Castlevania wasn't selling well.

Besides who's to say it should remain 2D? Konami just couldn't figure out how to update it like other developers did with their 2D series.

Further bad news for Konami, a video game columnist said there was massive layoffs this month and Koji-Pro finally game will be Metal Gear Solid V - https://twitter.com/Yoshidamian/status/577761486358982656 (https://twitter.com/Yoshidamian/status/577761486358982656)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: CrazyT on March 19, 2015, 10:11:59 am
2D Castlevania wasn't selling well.

Besides who's to say it should remain 2D? Konami just couldn't figure out how to update it like other developers did with their 2D series.
I figured as much. The last one, orders of ecclesia was supposed to be the most ambitious one after portrait of ruin and dawn of sorrow. Im assuming they thought putting more into it was gonna help the franchise, but ended up declining in sales even more.

Despite all that, the game was amazing. The transition to 3d could have been better, but to me it was more of a case of dont try to fix what's broken. Aside from that i think piracy on ds could have also played a huge factor. But you can never prove something like that
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 19, 2015, 10:49:48 am
Oh boy, here we go.

Prepare your eyes because this is gonna be a looooooong journey.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on March 19, 2015, 01:03:59 pm
!

Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 01:12:46 pm
Gamespot reporting insider sources saying Kojima has left.

The man also had some cryptic tweets about being tired and needing a break. Could it have alluded to this?

Sad day if true, I was expecting the Japanese dream comeback, instead it seems that we have a nightmare on our hands : <
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: JRcade19 on March 19, 2015, 01:16:53 pm
The report says he's leaving by the end of the year, because Konami are basically being Control Nazi's.

Still a crappy day none the less
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 01:21:56 pm
The report says he's leaving by the end of the year, because Konami are basically being Control Nazi's.

Still a crappy day none the less

Evolution Studio getting layoffs, Yakuza 0 failing, Nintendo opening to mobile games and now this.

What a week. WHAT A WEEK.

That surely means good news for tomorrow, like Shenmue 3 helmed by Nagoshi, Suzuki and Kojima and SEGA re-enters the console market.

Right guys, right?

: (
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: JRcade19 on March 19, 2015, 01:26:22 pm
Evolution Studio getting layoffs, Yakuza 0 failing, Nintendo opening to mobile games and now this.

What a week. WHAT A WEEK.

That surely means good news for tomorrow, like Shenmue 3 helmed by Nagoshi, Suzuki and Kojima and SEGA re-enters the console market.

Right guys, right?

: (

Did not hear about the bolded.

The end is truly nigh
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Trippled on March 19, 2015, 01:28:00 pm
Did not hear about the bolded.

The end is truly nigh

Well fail is an overstatement. It just didn't do great or good, just okay.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 01:31:27 pm
Well fail is an overstatement. It just didn't do great or good, just okay.

Yeah it did okayish, I doubt it's meeting SEGA's expectation though if they wanted Ishin to do 500,000...

But hey if Yakuza 5 crossed over a million that gives Yakuza 0 hope yet, probably why they were so interested in getting into the Chinese market.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: inthesky on March 19, 2015, 01:32:10 pm
Power struggle, KojiPro is on the bad side of it (of course, unfortunately) but apparently he will be promoting the game in a very limited capacity

There's not been much for me to root for. They clearly won't make another Castlevania, not even 3D (and I'd love to try Lament of Innocence, even if apparently reception was lukewarm!) no Bomberman, no nothing. What this sort of suggests is that...it's ugly there. Igarashi gone, Love Live devs gone, =P

Better hope Silent Hill sets the world on fire

Did not hear about the bolded.

The end is truly nigh

it's not so much outright failing, as it is being fairly disappointing and leaving Sega with no obvious answers regarding what to do next with the franchise
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 19, 2015, 01:35:38 pm
Yakuza 0 failing? TA WAS RIGHT!

For real though, sad news. I wonder what it was that caused it to struggle compared to the last title?

I hope you'll all join me in becoming pessimistic old men and not caring about gaming beyond playing 10 year + old PC & console games that I haven't gotten around to yet and the occasional 'indie' or 'under the radar' gem like Hotline Miami 2.

This is the future we chose.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 01:43:00 pm
My reasoning for it selling below par is simple:

- Gameplay isn't as progressive as previous titles. Yakuza 5 had 5 cities and characters, 0 only has 2 of both.
- The minigames aren't as expanded as previous versions
- A big one and Yakuza 5 spoiler: [spoiler]Game ends on a cliffhanger.[/spoiler]
- Franchise fatigue
- Japanese gaming market is contracting, traditional market is as big as it was in 1991.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: pirovash88 on March 19, 2015, 01:54:10 pm
The fuck is Konami going to do without Kojima?

I hear they've removed the "A Kojima Productions Game" From the MGS title..

He's either playing us for fools, or he's actually leaving.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: CrazyT on March 19, 2015, 02:20:46 pm
Evolution Studio getting layoffs, Yakuza 0 failing, Nintendo opening to mobile games and now this.

What a week. WHAT A WEEK.

That surely means good news for tomorrow, like Shenmue 3 helmed by Nagoshi, Suzuki and Kojima and SEGA re-enters the console market.

Right guys, right?

: (
when you put it like that... Holy shit

I think more may follow. What a sad time
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 19, 2015, 02:25:02 pm
Are you guys really surprised though? As Sega fans I thought we'd have known what's up already.

Look on the bright side, you can finally work on that Back Catalogue of games while all your previous favourite publishers make mobile phone junk.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 02:29:43 pm
Are you guys really surprised though? As Sega fans I thought we'd have known what's up already.

Look on the bright side, you can finally work on that Back Catalogue of games while all your previous favourite publishers make mobile phone junk.

Surprised about Kojima being forced out of Konami?

Come on, how could you not be surprised about that. Nintendo making mobile games was expected, but Konami dropping everything and their tailsman for mobile gaming was something no one saw coming, even if all the hints were there.

(Also SEGA still has loads of console/PC games coming, why you got to hate on [spoiler]Ha[/spoiler]T[spoiler]sun[/spoiler]e M[spoiler]iku [/spoiler]b[spoiler]r[/spoiler]o :< )
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 19, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
I guess I'm just not so much surprised as indifferent. Never really played a Kojima game and I'm half surprised that Konami still exists in any capacity rather than moving to mobile phones. What do they even publish anymore apart from MGS which comes out once every seventeen years anyway?

Sega may have lots of Console/PC releases, but most of it I don't care about, or is just a title that's been published/bought from someone else or an established series before they got involved (and in some cases have nearly killed my interest through filthy monetization).
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 19, 2015, 02:57:01 pm
I guess I'm just not so much surprised as indifferent. Never really played a Kojima game and I'm half surprised that Konami still exists in any capacity rather than moving to mobile phones. What do they even publish anymore apart from MGS which comes out once every seventeen years anyway?

Pro Evolution Soccer is their only other major series. Still it's shocking regardless since Metal Gear is pretty much Kojima's creation.

Sega may have lots of Console/PC releases, but most of it I don't care about, or is just a title that's been published/bought from someone else or an established series before they got involved (and in some cases have nearly killed my interest through filthy monetization).

I suppose I could see it with Total War but if EA bought them The Creative Assembly would be closed a long time ago, so there's the other side.

Besides I'm not really going to go into the SEGA DNA thing. Shining Force and Streets of Rage were made via third party/spunoff teams but I still liked them a lot, as long as the games good that's cool. I feel as long as they've put up the cash than it's as good a SEGA game as any other, it just happened to be they constantly made/had a hand in the best games I was a fan, rather than a encompassing SEGA style and now their quality has dipped with the occasional great game here and there.

(And yes I consider Hitman, the original Batman Asylum etc, Square Enix products)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: CrazyT on March 19, 2015, 08:11:24 pm
Unrelated to the thread but more about the stuff happening overall this week. I wouldnt be surprised more lay offs happened in the coming months in other places. The AAA environment is just so toxic imho. And you know what, you could see it coming from miles away. Great visuals has also taken away a great deal of focus towards gameplay in videogames while at the same time making games costing more effort to reach certain "created" standards.

Its really sad because for all the potential a gen like this has, it just isnt sustainable. The only way is if some revolution happened in developing tools.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Happy Cat on March 19, 2015, 08:15:37 pm
Unrelated to the thread but more about the stuff happening overall this week. I wouldnt be surprised more lay offs happened in the coming months in other places. The AAA environment is just so toxic imho. And you know what, you could see it coming from miles away. Great visuals has also taken away a great deal of focus towards gameplay in videogames while at the same time making games costing more effort to reach certain "created" standards.

Its really sad because for all the potential a gen like this has, it just isnt sustainable. The only way is if some revolution happened in developing tools.

It has nothing to do with the tools, well except maybe for the JP devs who refuse to use western engines. The modern day game engines are the most advanced they have ever been and super easy to use (for a developer). It's more so companies suffering from poor management and decision making.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on March 19, 2015, 09:44:14 pm
I have to agree, I think the whole 'Xbox 360' PC focus that got popularity along with shooters really destroyed Japanese business' confidence in their IPs. You see what the newest entries for Namco's Ridge Racer, Hudson Soft's weird Bomberman (really Konami) reboot on 360, and so on.

IGN did a OK article on the thing.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/01/12/the-westernization-of-japanese-games

Lots of Japanese developers gave up on making their own types of games and tried to follow trends in the western market and compete with them. Do you think developers like Smilebit sat and wondered "Maybe we shouldn't make the game based on Tokyo, have bright cartoon graphics and very wacky world because Americans might dislike it."

That sort of thinking from upper management is what is killing Japan.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: pirovash88 on March 19, 2015, 10:42:57 pm
I think it's hard to pinpoint where the issues are happening in Japan. You've got developers catering to the West and not doing well and on the other side you have companies like Nintendo who are too stubborn to change.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: inthesky on March 19, 2015, 10:53:12 pm
Well the Japanese economy is super sluggish too. Recent VAT hike doesn't make things better. Less free money to spend on games.

But that's only part of the picture
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on March 19, 2015, 10:58:32 pm
The thing is, their software is fine, people just want them to get with the times when it comes to online play, unified accounts and their strange DRM practices (I shouldn't have to call to get my digital games back if I break a 3DS). I think those are all valid.

Its funny that companies like Atlus have found success bringing over and making 'niche' games. They are a smart company, they will tweet a photo of a character from Persona and ask fans why they like said character. Their responses are used to shape the character and see what not to change in future installments.

While SEGA, Konami, Namco and co already know what we want... right? We want Gears of War games. 


Then consoles are doing terribly in Japan, so I guess I can see why they are appealing to the mass audience (which last generation was like hardcore shooting games). I think shooting genre is sorta slowing down. Evolve, Titanfall and even the last COD didn't do so great (COD did good but not better than before). Not to mention Hardline is looking like a bomb already.

I think most gamers (especially new ones) aren't thrilled with 'OMG LUKE AT THE GRAPKS', they just want a fun game to play and get lost in with their friends. I see why Minecraft was a huge success and I'll tell you this: It wasn't because its epic storyline and triple A graphics (realistic destruction!!!)


I know gamers don't want to hear this, but mobile is where the money is at. Low cost of entry, high gains.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: CrazyT on March 20, 2015, 05:14:59 am
It has nothing to do with the tools, well except maybe for the JP devs who refuse to use western engines. The modern day game engines are the most advanced they have ever been and super easy to use (for a developer). It's more so companies suffering from poor management and decision making.
Im sure thats the case as well. It makes me sad to hear many games underperform. Only making it harder for devs to take risks and instead decide to go mobile. Thats not what a gen with greater power should have been about.. Its almost as if they are pushing themselves into a corner. One mistake and thats it.

 Indie games(or smaller games from big publishers) are great and I see them becoming a nice replacement when boxed releases become even less. But its crazy how the new gen is leading towards less games fully utilizing the hardware. It just all seems so ironic
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 20, 2015, 10:04:20 am
I suppose I could see it with Total War but if EA bought them The Creative Assembly would be closed a long time ago, so there's the other side.

Besides I'm not really going to go into the SEGA DNA thing. Shining Force and Streets of Rage were made via third party/spunoff teams but I still liked them a lot, as long as the games good that's cool. I feel as long as they've put up the cash than it's as good a SEGA game as any other, it just happened to be they constantly made/had a hand in the best games I was a fan, rather than a encompassing SEGA style and now their quality has dipped with the occasional great game here and there.

(And yes I consider Hitman, the original Batman Asylum etc, Square Enix products)

I don't want to get into 'Sega DNA vs Non-Sega DNA' and stuff like that because it's so wishy washy it doesn't make sense. I guess I'm talking about series that were established and Sega kind of just held the wheel steady, like Total War or Company of Heroes. And as I said, the DLC practices they have now have made the games worse (many fans argue the series has gone downhill in quality for both as well).

Stuff like Ayyy Isolation is still fair enough 100% Sega though, considering they commissioned it and it was in development for eleven years or whatever. But so is Colonial Marines and AVP, sadly.

As for other publishers would have shut it down, that's a hard comparison to make, as it's supposing a lot of things going differently. I can see your point though.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 20, 2015, 10:06:44 am
I know gamers don't want to hear this, but mobile is where the money is at. Low cost of entry, high gains.

The sad thing is, it seems like a lottery since unless you're using a big name IP or throw lots of money at it, you're just throwing a game into a pool the size of the Atlantic Ocean. Except it's full of toxic waste.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 23, 2015, 01:44:32 pm
The sad thing is, it seems like a lottery since unless you're using a big name IP or throw lots of money at it, you're just throwing a game into a pool the size of the Atlantic Ocean. Except it's full of toxic waste.

Most major mobile successes have been new IPs funny enough.

Since this is officially the industry DOOM AND GLOOM thread, DriveClub dev hit with 50% layoffs.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-03-23-driveclub-developer-set-to-lose-55-staff-sources-say
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on March 23, 2015, 03:09:12 pm
Yeah in the end of the day its all about access to consumers and consoles will never beat the reach of cell phones. That is the sad truth of the matter now.

Last year the smart phone market shipped 1 billion phones in the span of a year. That is incredible and something that gaming machines won't do. I know you will ask yourself "But those aren't gamers" and I think a lot of people know that. I think that is why free to play apps are such a success because its no risk (at the start) for consumers. Its a free game, they give it a tree and love it. So they spend money.

I know a few people that play mobile games and spend money and they say "Hey, I only spend money on games I really like. I don't think its bad spending 20 dollars on a game I have been playing dozens of hours for free".

So now most games are dropping the whole sleazy 'making you wait' and thinking of smarter ways of earning people's money. I think even earlier stuff wasn't that sleazy. Like Angry birds aways had a buy to own version without and and was reasonable at a buck.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 23, 2015, 03:34:02 pm
Most major mobile successes have been new IPs funny enough.

I believe that, but I still feel it's like a lottery. Look at Flappy Bird.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 23, 2015, 03:39:41 pm
I believe that, but I still feel it's like a lottery. Look at Flappy Bird.

It's definitely a lottery for the smaller developers but is it really a lottery for bigger developers like SEGA, Capcom, EA etc considering this is their (Well okay only SEGA) success rate;

(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Slide1-750x519.png)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on March 23, 2015, 03:46:19 pm
Lottery? Look at the hits SEGA has on mobile and then look at the last ten years on consoles. Tell me what the real lottery is.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 23, 2015, 03:55:23 pm
I was meaning more for smaller devs trying to put out a game. When you have the marketing $$$ and knowledge Sega does it's easier to get that exposure.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on March 23, 2015, 03:59:02 pm
But its a risk for smaller devs all the time, even on consoles.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 23, 2015, 04:03:34 pm
I was meaning more for smaller devs trying to put out a game. When you have the marketing $$$ and knowledge Sega does it's easier to get that exposure.

Oh yeah it definitely is harder for smaller developers to stand out from the crowd but we only just hit a point in the industry where the likes of Microsoft or Sony will take a moment out of their AAA fueled presentation and show John Doe and his latest artsy fartsy game. That being said the risk is still there (In the case of consoles, even bigger thanks to needing to license your product) but at least the amount the competition isn't as huge as it is on mobile.

That being said George is right in saying for SEGA somehow console development is a lottery hahahaha.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 25, 2015, 10:24:05 am
So, this thread in Neogaf resumes every about the medium-term games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009390 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009390)

Look the responses in the first page. They have no idea what are they doing.

I what kind of world do you expect sucess with PS+ and a million downloads made for a $10 game?

Go ahead, destroy the western side of the market if you want to.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 25, 2015, 11:17:24 am
So, this thread in Neogaf resumes every about the medium-term games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009390 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009390)

Look the responses in the first page. They have no idea what are they doing.

I what kind of world do you expect sucess with PS+ and a million downloads made for a $10 game?

Go ahead, destroy the western side of the market if you want to.

I think the responses are fine, unless you are saying the developer is being short sighted? In which case I agree with you.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 25, 2015, 03:11:19 pm
The problem is that kind of people or at least say most of the "gamers" who do that. I mean, how do you success in something if the game is gonna be release free in 2 months and people wait and "buy it" that way. It was 10$ and even that price is too much for them.


And sales or discount only cause more problems. Lucky dev if you win in that. In this case, nobody have won.







Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Aki-at on March 25, 2015, 03:19:46 pm
The problem is that kind of people or at least say most of the "gamers" who do that. I mean, how do you success in something if the game is gonna be release free in 2 months and people wait and "buy it" that way. It was 10$ and even that price is too much for them.


And sales or discount only cause more problems. Lucky dev if you win in that. In this case, nobody have won.

Hm really? I didn't get that from some of them, a few of them were calling out Ubisoft for their insane expectations I thought.

A better example was when Alien: Isolation sold over a million and people were like "Why is that considered successful?" even though SEGA seemed to be very happy with the sales.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on March 30, 2015, 10:18:34 pm
Until further news, I reach a source that says that Bamco is gonna do something interesting with the Arcade Namco IP's they have....watch out for that.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on April 07, 2015, 09:30:34 am
Now, Level-5 is going full charge on mobile with their IP's.
Even if they sold really well on 3DS.

Edit:Shhh, don't tell to TA but:  http://mobile.siliconera.com/home/2015-04-06-capcom-hope-to-operate-deep-down-and-other-online-games-for-10-years  (http://mobile.siliconera.com/home/2015-04-06-capcom-hope-to-operate-deep-down-and-other-online-games-for-10-years)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: George on April 07, 2015, 11:55:41 am
I remember SEGA saying in a event when they announced Resonance of Fate that they wanted to 'support the franchise for 10 years'.

I wonder if Japanese people just like throwing around that decade long number.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on May 05, 2015, 08:28:50 pm
I will put the days which Jp companies will post their financial statments about FY2015:


Nintendo: 7th May
Capcom: 7th May
Bandai Namco: 8th May
Konami: 8th May
Sega-Sammy: 11th May
Square-Enix: 12th May


Resume for all "the Big 6" in Japan will come later.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: inthesky on May 06, 2015, 01:22:24 pm
It seems Koei Tecmo doing well for themselves

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040392

It should be noted a couple of things

" Koei Tecmo saw revenue increase for the second consecutive year and operating profit increase for the 5th consecutive year, up 35.2% YOY. Total sales revenue reached 37,799m yen which was up 0.6% YOY. Game Software still remained the biggest segment for Koei Tecmo with Online and Mobile in a comfortable second place. Combined, these two segments account for more than 31,600m yen in revenue.

Total sales revenue in Japan decreased 4.6% YOY but still accounted for 79% of total revenues, 29,876m yen. Sales revenue overseas was up 26.4% YOY and accounted for 7,922m yen. North America and Europe saw the biggest increases (42.8% and 40.8%) whilst Asia was down 8.6% YOY only accounting for 1,763m yen compared to 2,431m yen in Europe and 3,728m yen in North America.

The total operating profit ratio was up 6.5 points to 25.5%. "

So it seem spending for consumer games still going down in Japan but strong offering this past year helped for overseas consumer games. f2p DOA5 and downloadable content is making them money and they'll be doing more mobile stuff

I think they benefit heavily from running the same engines into the ground, also, for their games (Musou, Atelier)
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on May 07, 2015, 11:12:15 am
Oh, I forgot Koei Tecmo, they are doing good with all their deals with Musou licensed games.

 Expect many more licensed games from that. They are going to use that formula until it isn't work anymore.
Title: Re: The reason of the change in the Japanese gaming business (information)
Post by: Nirmugen on May 12, 2015, 10:57:55 pm
Well, we have at least each report for the so called "Big 6 in Japan" (Bandai-Namco (http://www.bandainamco.co.jp/en/ir/library/pdf/en_20150508_1Result.pdf), Sega-Sammy (https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/201503_4q_tanshinhosoku_e_final_.pdf), Square-Enix (http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/15q4earnings.pdf), Konami (http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/statements/2015_4q/html/), Capcom (http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/news/html/e150507b.html) and Koei-Tecmo (https://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/e/fh/FH_FY144Q.pdf))

Here are the reports in order by time of publication:


                                                                                 Overall                                                  Currency:USD converted from JP Yen.
                           Net Sales                           Operating Income                      Net Income/Profit(Loss)


Koei-Tecmo:       315.55 Million                    80.56 Million                                   78.76 Million


Capcom:             534.54 Million                    88.33 Million                                   55.22 Million


Bandai-Namco:   4.72 Billion                        470.05 Million                                 313.72 Million


Konami:              1.82 Billion                        120.61 Million                                 79.12 Million


Sega-Sammy:     2.96 Billion                  146.9 Million                           (93.49 Million)-Extraordinary Loss (132.71 Million)-                                                                                                                                      Without EL 41.73 Million (3Q Report)


Square-Enix:       1.40 Billion                  137.08 Million                          82.05 Million




                                                        Games (Digital/Packaged)
                                                                                                        Net Sales                           Operating Income


Koei-Tecmo:      263.71 Million                    74.48 Million                                   


Capcom:             378.64 Million                    85.21 Million                                   


Bandai-Namco:   2.47 Billion                        244.49 Million                                 


Konami :            809.51 Million                   110.78 Million                               
(Arcade Included
Marginal Error: -17%)



Sega-Sammy:     855.24 Million                   44.2 Million                                     


Square-Enix:       933.95 Million                   144.16 Million                               
                                                                    (NB:Higher than Overall)


Gross Market Position(Overall):

1)Bandai-Namco
2)Sega-Sammy
3)Konami
4)Square-Enix
5)Capcom
6)Koei-Tecmo

Gross Market Position(Games):

1)Bandai-Namco
2)Square-Enix
3)Sega-Sammy
4)Konami
5)Capcom
6)Koei-Tecmo

Operating Income Ranking 2015 (Games):

1)Bandai-Namco
2)Square-Enix
3)Konami
4)Capcom
5)Koei-Tecmo
6)Sega-Sammy

Net Income Overall Ranking 2015 (Overall):

1)Bandai-Namco

2)Square-Enix
3)Konami
4)Koei-Tecmo
5)Capcom
6)Sega-Sammy