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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyT on February 04, 2012, 12:43:05 am

Title: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 04, 2012, 12:43:05 am: (http://news71.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/6e0f5__Sonic-4-Ep-2-Logo-600x480.jpg)
Thinking about it for a moment, I was quite surprised at how little the game get's discussed here. I think it's about time we have an official thread where we can talk about episode 2. As you all may have noticed we get new information at least once per week on the fridays, known as concept art fridays.

What we got so far:
(http://www.worldwaveweb.com.br/concept17-02-2.png)

Things that are confirmed:

>New physics engine
>New graphics engine
>Tails
>Metal sonic

So far I gotta say nothing has been a let down and the concept arts are really looking great, I guess the only thing I am a little dissapointed about is the lack of classic sonic and the hideous logo that rips off a classic again. Oh yeah... and the homing attack.

Still not gonna give episode 2 the benefit of the doubt. Gameplay first, and we can start talking 8)

Update: New leaked screens

http://segabits.com/blog/2012/02/14/sonic-4-episode-2-screens-not-concept-

Update: New screens at SEGA blog
http://segabits.com/blog/2012/02/16/more-sonic-4-episode-2-screens-revealed-teaser-trailer-next-thursday/
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Sharky on February 04, 2012, 09:02:08 am: I think people who hated Episode 1 will again be let down by Episode 2, I simply don't see the engine/graphics changing to any meaningful degree between Ep1 and 2.

I could be wrong, I'd like to be wrong.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: crackdude on February 04, 2012, 11:30:14 am: I'd like you to be right really. I enjoyed the mechanics of Ep I.

While I prefer momentum based physics, truth is the "excess" of control we get over Sonic makes the game highly playable on portable devices (one of it's major markets, if not the biggest). Sharp in-air control, useful lock-in homing attack.. The game is great.

What one could indeed question is if such change of gameplay dynamics should prevent the game from having "4" in the title, since it's not an evolution of the MegaDrive games but an effective change.

Then again, I think that if that's your problem with the game(play), you're an asshat. The game could be called "Sonic roopy poopy mega shit in your pants 6" and would not be any worse because of it.

Good game, misleading title? Perhaps. But a good game is always a good game. And that's what I felt about Sonic 4 Ep 1.

I do know some people have gripes with the sharper control, but personally I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 04, 2012, 11:58:30 am: When we had AAUK on the podcast, he mentioned that the game was not meant to be Sonic 4 until later in the dev process. This probably explains why the game's physics were so off. Look at the Advance, Rush and Rivals series, all three had different feeling physics but all used the same style of 2D gameplay. I'd assume that had Sonic 4 been called Sonic HD, people would still complain but not as much. Not to say that this excuses the problems Sonic 4 had, but it does explain them.

Now that they're going into episode 2 KNOWING it's Sonic 4 from the get-go, I think a lot more effort will be put into the physics, controls and enemy and stage design. How much effort remains to be seen, but the fact that Ken B. stated the revisions and improvements taking place shows that they're making strides.

I wonder if the game will even lock on with Episode 1? Perhaps they're leaving ep 1 to sit on its own and the rest of the episodes will lock on to each other?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: MadeManG74 on February 04, 2012, 04:26:21 pm: Quote from: Sharky on February 04, 2012, 09:02:08 am
I think people who hated Episode 1 will again be let down by Episode 2, I simply don't see the engine/graphics changing to any meaningful degree between Ep1 and 2.

I could be wrong, I'd like to be wrong.

I second that. Why does this game even exist? Didn't Generations just trounce it?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Sharky on February 04, 2012, 05:21:28 pm: Quote from: MadeManG74 on February 04, 2012, 04:26:21 pm
I second that. Why does this game even exist? Didn't Generations just trounce it?

I think simply because for all the shit it got from the fans, they were a loud minority... Episode 1 sold a ton I'm pretty sure and most people probably didn't even notice the physics issues.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 04, 2012, 07:02:26 pm: Well, think back to early 2010. It was a dry spell for multi-platform Sonic titles, '08's Unleashed was the last multi-platform game. Unless you had a Wii, Kinect or DS, '09 and '10 would have been baron. I think SEGA's intent was to release a game that was easy (aka cheap) to develop, would have mass appeal and would tide fans over until Generations.

Unfortunately, SEGA had all their competent talent working on Colors and Generations so they handed 4 off to Dimps and really didn't push the quality like they did with the other titles in development.

Early signs are pointing to Episode 2 being a better game, so I'm excited. I'm glad they're soldiering on and making more episodes. The last thing the franchise needs right now is SEGA cutting an episodic game short. Critics and the press would gladly throw all kinds of nonsense at SEGA if they stopped with episode 1.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on February 04, 2012, 07:09:17 pm: Quote from: Sharky on February 04, 2012, 05:21:28 pm
I think simply because for all the shit it got from the fans, they were a loud minority... Episode 1 sold a ton I'm pretty sure and most people probably didn't even notice the physics issues.

Episode 1 sold just over a million and released on a lot of formats. When you consider mobile phone sales of Sonic 2 alone are at 4 million back in 2009 I believe (This is without considering PSN/XBLA/Steam etc) thats a pretty bad figure when you consider the potential sales that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 should achieve. I am sure it's been profitable for SEGA though.

Though selling a million is not actually hard for a Sonic game, Silver still sold over a million, Shadow the Hedgehog was also a million seller.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 04, 2012, 07:16:01 pm: I think the price of Episode 1 is what held back sales. However, I wonder how many more sold since Mike Hayes gave the million figure. There were a number of sales since then, so the game surely sold a lot more.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on February 04, 2012, 08:10:00 pm: Quote from: Barry the Nomad on February 04, 2012, 07:16:01 pm
I think the price of Episode 1 is what held back sales. However, I wonder how many more sold since Mike Hayes gave the million figure. There were a number of sales since then, so the game surely sold a lot more.

It will probably still sell for many years to come, Sonic games have incredible staying power. Even the absolutely terrible ones. Be interesting to see the figures though, especially as the Steam and Android versions have been added since then.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 10, 2012, 02:31:31 pm: Image update

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6852252021_27227d44c4.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/423438_10150580796362418_1372289643_n.jpg)

Platform is pretty cool. Don't know what to think about the badnik however. Looks too much like aquatic ruins badnik
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 10, 2012, 02:35:10 pm: Eh, I'm cool with a few returning badniks. Thus far we've seen one out of six badniks being from an old game. The rest are new or are heavily redesigned obscure enemies. I'd rather see Chop Chop returning than, say, Motobug who has become the Goomba of the Sonic series.

The platform is cool, a new gimmick! I hope we see more of those.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on February 14, 2012, 01:20:40 pm: http://imgur.com/a/gx6Zn

Found these through NeoGAF. Real or fake? You guys decide, I must admit I am hoping at last those are proper polygon models and not sprites, I've always felt they should have gone in that angle and I am quite happy for that. The colour tone of some of the levels look dull, but it is probably due to it being at night time, I believe Sonic 4 Ep 1 had similar daytime / night time acts correct?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 14, 2012, 01:41:40 pm: Real. Made the post on the main page.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on February 14, 2012, 01:56:56 pm: Whhaaa... Whaaa... What the hell! This is like Sonic Generations level of 2D gameplay and stuff. Wow, I really can't beleive how friggin' amazing it looks!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 14, 2012, 02:10:04 pm: I know, right? It's looking really good. Like almost the same quality as the 2D stages in Generations. Though those were a bit more detailed, with a further back camera and more depth to the background.

So the four zones are looking to be:

• Aquatic Ruins HD remix
• Winter Theme Park (with underwater sections?)
• Desert Oil Refinery
• mystery stage, perhaps taking place on the invention floating in the sky? A Death Egg Little Planet?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Chaosmaster8753 on February 14, 2012, 02:17:31 pm: I wonder how the music will be? Will Jun finally get access to the instruments he originally wanted to use during Episode 1? Will we ever see footage soon? Find out whenever more information comes!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 14, 2012, 03:36:31 pm: Well at least it sells on the visual department, which is something sonic usually does but episode 1 didn't even succeed in. The screenshots look beautiful, stunning.

However I am dissapointed to see the badnik bubbles back to be used as homing fodder again.
(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/s4ep22.jpeg)

And since it looks so forced again, I think it's unlikely that i'll be able to play with tails alone to avoid that kind of gameplay.

So yeah, i gotta be honest that I set myself the standard that I was gonna play with tails if the homing attack was gonna be forced. It seems I can forget about that one.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 14, 2012, 08:38:52 pm: Possible release date is 5/16. Microsoft posted it and quickly removed it.

D'oh!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Sharky on February 14, 2012, 08:58:33 pm: I stand by my opinion that the Homing Attack is a natural progression of Sonics skill set, it works well in 3D and 2D. I saw LOTS of people confessing that they actually enjoyed turning on the homing attack for classic Sonic in Generations.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 15, 2012, 07:30:43 am: Quote from: Sharky on February 14, 2012, 08:58:33 pm
I stand by my opinion that the Homing Attack is a natural progression of Sonics skill set, it works well in 3D and 2D. I saw LOTS of people confessing that they actually enjoyed turning on the homing attack for classic Sonic in Generations.

Agreed. One thing I've said again and again: every 2D Sonic sequel made additions to Sonic's skill set - spin dash in Sonic 2, insta-shield in Sonic 3 & Knuckles and homing attack in Sonic 4. This is not to say that the homing attack, or any of the other skills, make their respective games better than the past games. I think some Sonic fans nerd rage over the fact that some people liked the homing attack, thinking that people who liked it think that the past games are now shit by comparison. No way is that true. It's just that it's nice to see the series making additions that aren't characters. With Episode 2's supposed revamped physics, the game may very well play great with or without the homing attack. Playing Generations 2D stages with homing attack was a lot of fun, because with the Genesis-like physics, I could play the game with less focus on the homing attack, but it was still there to use if I wanted to or needed to.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 15, 2012, 08:59:45 am: Natural progression? So what was bad or wrong about the sensation a player got from regular bouncing? It worked in sonic CD and even sonic generations to set itself apart from the modern gameplay didn't it? I mean if something is like a natural progression, the idea of going back and losing such a move in future installments should feel like a regression. The regular way encourages more interaction over automation so in my opinion the games are just as much fun if not better without it.

And to be honest even the people who like the homing attack disliked the way s4e1 didn't really build original elements around the homing attack. It did indeed feel like, home attack this, then home attack that, then here at the bubbles you mash the buttons 3 times etc etc. Allthough it's still not clear wether there will be original things built around the feature, what we do know is that bubbles is back to remove the optionality of the move. One could say you could just fly over them, but yeah doing that may be even more silly than it sounds.

Edit: Yay 1000th post
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Sharky on February 15, 2012, 10:42:02 am: Quote
Natural progression? So what was bad or wrong about the sensation a player got from regular bouncing?
Nothing... Why not have both.
There are elements of Episode 1 that use the homing attack, like the chain of enemies to get to higher areas, that's totally fine with me.

It's like the people that complain that you can now 'mash' the attack button in PSO2, you can and thats fine but if you don't want too... Don't theres still the option for times rhythmic attacks which will net you extra damage.

But Sonic is not that complex, so either use it or if for what ever strange reason it offends you... Then don't use it.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on February 15, 2012, 10:56:55 am: Having elements like that changes the level design and if someone wants a classic momentuam based platformer, this is not its not natural progression. It's clearly shown though the continual declining sales of the Sonic series that perhaps sticking to such elements that have pushed Sonic fans away is not such a good idea either.

But not point in discussing it now, while that is an issue, I would like to see how the physics are before we move on other matters. Also glad they've finally decided to release Sonic in another month not called November.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 15, 2012, 11:28:38 am: Episode 2 will no longer have uncurling, so homing attack *might* be less forced. Roll off a ramp, encounter a string of enemies and you can either bop through them classic style or homing attack them.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 15, 2012, 11:57:12 am: Quote from: Sharky on February 15, 2012, 10:42:02 am
Nothing... Why not have both.
There are elements of Episode 1 that use the homing attack, like the chain of enemies to get to higher areas, that's totally fine with me.

It's like the people that complain that you can now 'mash' the attack button in PSO2, you can and thats fine but if you don't want too... Don't theres still the option for times rhythmic attacks which will net you extra damage.

But Sonic is not that complex, so either use it or if for what ever strange reason it offends you... Then don't use it.
I agree we should have both, hence there shouldnt be elements that force it imo. I think you can't compare it with PSO2's hold button to keep attacking, but more along the line of button spamdashing in generations. Basically, allready existing features with different activations. Allthough it's still hard to compare since the impact on the gameplay is different for both games.

The 3d games HA(I say 3d games because the HA in sonic advance 2 and the rush games were useless) in a pure 2d game has been new since s4e1. It's strange decision when all these new games didn't have it and then see it introduced in a game that's supposed to play like even earlier games, but then again the physics and recently barry's converse with ArchangelUK in the podcast make sense of it all.

@Barry, well that's another thing:P Hope bouncing works the way it did like either generations or the classics. I think they did in the 3ds version of generations so i'd be very happy with that.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Sharky on February 15, 2012, 12:18:00 pm: I simply don't see the homing attack as anything but a good option that gives Sonic another dimention. I imagine if Sonic had had the same fanbase back then as it does now people would be complaining about Sonic 2's spin dash since 'it's automatic and you don't need physics to roll quickly anymore.' I seriously can see people complaining about that shit.

But you know what? Spin Dash was a brilliant addition and made Sonic 2 worlds better then the first game.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on February 15, 2012, 01:06:14 pm: homing attack is fine, it just made its debut in some pretty poorly made games and thus is hated by association. When overused it can feel like sloppy design as well.

When it comes to sonic, I think simplicity is just always better. In Unleashed, Generations, and colors to an extent, there are just TOO MANY BUTTON COMMANDS. We've got stomp, homing attack, drift, slide, light speed dash, and boost! This kind of thing really hurts the accessibility of the franchise. People used to be able to just pick up and play sonic 1/2/3/k without much effort. It's the kind of thing I hope S4 brings back.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 15, 2012, 01:44:57 pm: I thought Sonic 4 retained the button simplicity of Sonic 1-3&k. You still play with just one button. Only addition is pressing jump and jump again to homing attack, but its still the same button. I think moving the Super Sonic activation to a second button was a great decision, because it made it easy to avoid using it if you didn't want to. Even in Sonic 3, which had no homing attack, it still was annoying if you accidentally went super if you tapped jump while jumping.

I'm hoping Episode 2's special moves don't complicate things. I wonder how that dual spin attack works.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 16, 2012, 07:33:48 am: Attention Japanese members: the latest issue of Famitsu (1211) is said to have a preview of Sonic 4 Episode 2! Anybody think they can find this issue and scan the preview? Kudos and karma points await! Not to mention a coveted mention on the front page. Oooooh! 8)
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 16, 2012, 01:45:40 pm: Updated OP

New very good looking images
http://segabits.com/blog/2012/02/16/more-sonic-4-episode-2-screens-revealed-teaser-trailer-next-thursday/

This image was most notable to me
(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/6887166551_2edcc3c428_o.jpeg)
Those new screenshots look nice. No reticules while sonic is jumping in front of an enemy raises questions, in a positive way to me. As i've said in the frontpage article, never really liked the reticules. But thinking about it again, it could just be that they haven't applied it yet

Edit: There's a few more things i have noticed. The special stages are actived from entering a giant ring again, so no mini bosses. In one of the pictures sonic jumps and makes a good curve, so that maye be sort of a sign the physics are impoved.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on February 16, 2012, 07:25:11 pm: All of those are pretty spectacular, but the snowy one is the one that really gets to me.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 17, 2012, 09:54:48 am: Famitsu scan:

(http://woun-nyan.ru/JPN/sonic/f_large.png)

Can anybody translate the Japanese? Wonder if any zone names are present.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 17, 2012, 01:28:13 pm: Where is storm? :P

Anyway more artworks :D
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6892334201_d6fdb71ff8.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/395695_10150599501777418_23050342417_8897970_1837727478_n.jpg)

Op updated
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 17, 2012, 02:06:54 pm: First off: Second boss revealed?!?

(http://i.imgur.com/Kmu7L.gif)

;D

Secondly: over at TSS, the Aquatic Ruin looking zone was translated to "Sylvania Castle". Not sure if this is the zone name, or what. Somebody said something about "sylvania" meaning "forest". So Forest Castle? Who knows. Rooftop Run was Orange Roofs over in Japan, so I don't trust the translation.

The frozen amusement park: the text was cut off, so all that could be read is "Winter" perhaps the first world is "Winter"? Winter Park? Winter Carnival?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 23, 2012, 10:28:42 am: Gameplay trailer in a little over a half an hour.

Call me cautiously excited ^^
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on February 23, 2012, 10:52:15 am: Quote from: CrazyTails on February 23, 2012, 10:28:42 am
Gameplay trailer in a little over a half an hour.

Call me cautiously excited ^^

We should all think its going to be terrible and toilet level badness, that way when it surprises us like Binary Domain did, we'd be ten times happier!

Though I honestly forgot about the trailer, wasn't it due tomorrow?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 23, 2012, 10:56:49 am: Nah it's gonna be today in a few minutes. Someone made a countdown picture that shows the time with every refresh
(http://countdownimages.org/cdwn/0_447_IMG1546.png)

Well tbh there's not much that could dissapoint me right now. I've accepted the things I don't like about the game, which might eventually influence wether I buy it or not for principled reasons. Though seeing the sega forums counting this whole thing down gets you sorta excited :P

...

Oh yeah and sonic 4 sux!!!!! (am i doing it right?)
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on February 23, 2012, 11:44:26 am: There you go guys

http://www.gamespot.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-2/videos/gameplay-trailer-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-2-6350932/

All i'm gonna say is that, dimps has done it again
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on February 23, 2012, 05:12:02 pm: Sorry Tails fans: http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?398710-Unanswered-questions-after-gameplay-trailer&p=7137210&viewfull=1#post7137210

Kellie of SoA says:

Quote
Tails is playable, but not in single player. When playing single player, you play as Sonic and interact with Tails to progress through the levels. When you're playing two player, one of you will play as Sonic and the other as Tails, and work together.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: STORM! on February 24, 2012, 09:08:05 am: Yes, the first stage is called "Sylvania Castle" and the second is "White Park".

Bye!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Happy Cat on March 07, 2012, 08:35:21 pm: Finally, someone who can play somewhat decently =P

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qwy3r5lQco[/youtube]
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 08, 2012, 07:48:58 am: Great find! Odd that I never found that in my searching, it was uploaded 2/29 but it's new to me!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Happy Cat on March 08, 2012, 09:17:22 am: Also is it just me, or is that video intro totally awesome? Hearing it just gets me pumped. XD and I love the design of it too.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 05, 2012, 02:08:36 pm: So, Episode Metal sounds really fucking cool: http://segabits.com/blog/2012/04/05/sonic-4-news-metal-sonic-playable-in-both-episodes-sand-zone-revealed-and-release-dates/

Reminds me of how playing as Knuckles in Sonic 3 revealed new aspects to the story. Really excited for it!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: crackdude on April 05, 2012, 05:41:03 pm: freakishly excited about episode Metal.

Also, in that trailer, if that's Dust Hill then color me bloody excited, it would be brilliant of them!
(Dust Hill was a Sonic 2/Sonic CD level that was cut out of the final game. Notice how in the Sonic CD's world map there's a sand mountain thing, and no sand level).
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on April 13, 2012, 10:12:08 am: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVgfPuK4FdM[/youtube]

Thought you guys wanted to know this, Ken Balough chats about Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II in this new interview.

One question: Who the heck is playing the Billy Hatcher theme in the background?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 21, 2012, 10:48:31 am: Steam dun goof'd. They had the game up for pre-order, but it turned out the be the game itself. It's a beta, and not all the data is there, but the game is playable. Some folk are up to White Park act 3. A few things I've heard:

White Park features a remix of this classic tune:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPkEk2mvJgg[/youtube]

The Sylvania Castle boss has a hilarious introduction [spoiler]from what I read, the boss begins as though its an Aquatic Ruins boss rehash, but all of a sudden the giant Egg Serpentleaf boss appears and destroys the iconic pillars. Sounds like SEGA is making a joke about Episode 1's rehash bosses[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on April 21, 2012, 10:50:50 am: Quote from: Barry the Nomad on April 21, 2012, 10:48:31 am
Steam dun goof'd. They had the game up for pre-order, but it turned out the be the game itself. It's a beta, and not all the data is there, but the game is playable. Some folk are up to White Park act 3.
It's been fixed already, it's not possible to download it anymore.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: crackdude on April 21, 2012, 03:07:19 pm: Quote from: ezodagrom on April 21, 2012, 10:50:50 am
It's been fixed already, it's not possible to download it anymore.
YOU'RE TOO SLOW
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on April 22, 2012, 08:19:45 pm: Waaitt... Whaaa...?

Did the game come out today or something?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on April 23, 2012, 06:41:02 am: Quote from: max_cady on April 22, 2012, 08:19:45 pm
Waaitt... Whaaa...?

Did the game come out today or something?

Steam released/leaked the game early, bunch of Sonic fans downloaded, began to notice nothing has changed but only made worse, Iizuka laughs and Nagoshi gives him the award for biggest internet troll to ever live.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 23, 2012, 07:41:48 am: From what I spoiled myself with, it looks much improved. Physics look far better (compared to Generations 3DS, Ep 2 looks a lot better). Graphics are what I always thought they should have been from the get go. Music is probably the one area that will cause a lot of arguments. I liked it, but it's not what I'm sure many fans wished it would be after episode 1. I like how dark Jun went with a lot of the tracks. They actually remind me of Genesis tunes from grittier games. Far fewer cheery happy tunes and more driving "serious business" adventure tunes. I like it.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on May 15, 2012, 08:34:59 am: As expected, the PC version of Episode 2 works like Episode 1. 1280x720 is the internal resolution, all others are just upscaled or downscaled.

It's also possible to force anti-aliasing through the graphics drivers for AMD graphics cards, but only at the 1280x720 resolution.

Default:

(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3674/sonic20120515001833817.jpg)

8x Super-Sample Anti-Aliasing, Edge-Detect Filter (24x Samples):

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8918/sonic20120515002154307.jpg)

Also I switched the spindash charge sound effect with the spinning sound effect in both Episode 2 and Episode Metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AVocorEcvs

Here are the modified files:
http://www.mediafire.com/?e9qwk528b2718w7

They have to be put in the SOUND folder.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 15, 2012, 10:05:26 am: Cool job! The second screen looks so much better, and those spin dashes sound superb. I never was annoyed by the swap, just consfused. I always meant to ask Ken or Aaron whats up with it. You'd think an iOS update and a PSN/XBLA/PC update could fix all versions of Sonic 4 in terms of the spindash sound effect.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on May 15, 2012, 10:10:01 am: Quote from: Barry the Nomad on May 15, 2012, 10:05:26 am
Cool job! The second screen looks so much better, and those spin dashes sound superb. I never was annoyed by the swap, just consfused. I always meant to ask Ken or Aaron whats up with it. You'd think an iOS update and a PSN/XBLA/PC update could fix all versions of Sonic 4 in terms of the spindash sound effect.
About the 2nd screen, I forced anti-aliasing through the graphics card drivers, but apparently this only works for recent AMD/ATI graphics cards (I'm guessing it works with HD2000 series or newer), doesn't seem to work for Nvidia graphics cards.
Someone in the SEGA forums mentioned that there's a tool to force FXAA (which should work for Nvidia cards), but I have no idea what tool that is.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on May 15, 2012, 10:04:37 pm: Looks like it's possible to force anti-aliasing for Nvidia graphics cards in the PC version of Episode 2 afterall. I don't have an Nvidia graphics card myself, so I can't test this, but someone in the Guru3D forums mentioned that this works for Sonic 4 Episode 2.

First thing, the tool Nvidia Inspector is needed:
http://download.orbmu2k.de/download.php?id=51 (http://download.orbmu2k.de/download.php?id=51)

When you open Nvidia inspector, next to the driver version tab, there's a little icon with the screwdriver and a wrench, click on it.
After that, follow the steps in the picture:

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8498/nvidiasonic4aa.jpg)

1: Select the game executable, it should be located in steam\steamapps\common\sonic the hedgehog 4 - ep 2, and then it's the file Sonic.exe.
2: Write 0x000012C1 in the Antialiasing compatibility option.
3: Set the Behaviour Flags to None.
4: Change the Antialiasing mode to Override.
5: Pick the Antialiasing setting you want (I don't have an nvidia graphics card, so no idea what options it has).
6: Click in Apply Changes.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on May 15, 2012, 11:14:02 pm: so um, the game is pretty awful so far. Physics are as bad as they've ever been. it looks pretty nice though.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 16, 2012, 05:35:20 am: It's already out on both Steam and XBLA today. There have not been any major reviews out yet. This gives me a reason to be concerned...
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 16, 2012, 07:40:33 am: I'm ignoring the reviews on this one. Fuck them, day 1 buy for me. I read a few 5/10 reviews and then played the first half of the game, and I'm sorry. I really do not see whatever they saw. I'm really loving the game so far.

The combos are fun and feel like an evolution in the series. Gimmicks are far more original, and they make good use of the homing attack. Bubbles chains are still there, but don't feel as forced as before. Physics feel a lot better. Like how Generations 2D acts felt different but worked, same with these. Bosses are original and lengthy, to the point where some feel like whole new acts and not just a single screen containing the boss. Graphics are great. Music is... better than before, but not up to the levels that I'm sure many fans wanted. I do really like about 3/4 of the soundtrack.

If Episode 1 was a 7/10 for me, Episode 2 is feeling like a 8/10. It doesn't beat Sonic 1, 2 or 3&K (those are 10's in my eyes) but I do like it as much as I do Sonic CD, in the sense that I would pick up and play Sonic CD just as soon as I'd pick up and play Episode 2.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SOUP on May 16, 2012, 10:06:20 am: So far, I'm enjoying the stage design more than classic Sonic in Generations.
It's nice to have that homing attack back too.
The music's only so-so, but the rest has been great so far :).
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 16, 2012, 10:23:53 am: Metal Sonic's boss themes (both versions) are pretty awesome. Looking forward to the eventual remixes of them.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on May 16, 2012, 11:32:17 am: I've been quiet all along over here about s4e2. Mainly cuz i didn't want to cause a ruckus with my... not so positive views. Well actually I just kind of let it go with all the other great stuff SEGA has been releasing lately. I've been enjoying pso2 beta, and right now i am very much still enjoying binary domain.(Btw I love the multiplayer mode, sadly theres such few people participating, but anyway)

I do have noticed how little hype the game has for it over here, and actually in general as well. I have actually never seen such little hype for a sonic game ever in my life. Sonic is supposed to be SEGA's mascot and make everyone go wild. It is the sequel to one of SEGA's best produced games during their golden era. So episode 2 is the result of what went totally wrong with episode 1.

For those who are enjoying the game, I am happy for you guys. But they did it again to me, so i'm passing on this awful second attempt too. For me this is still sonic 4 and not some random sonic game. Yes the title means alot to me and they managed to disgrace sonic's legacy again.

Not cool and I really hope this is the last time.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SaturnineNights on May 16, 2012, 11:52:16 am: CrazyTails, how is S4E2 a disgrace to the Sonic franchise? I've rather enjoyed it...the music is miles above E1, there are clever nods to a few classic games, and the level design is far more imaginative than Sonic Generations Classic was. Not to mention the bosses are actually really impressive; I can't remember the last time a Sonic boss was genuinely foreboding...and the special stages are a treat. Almost as cool as the Sonic 3D Blast Saturn special stage. Almost. ;)

The physics are still a little iffy, but it's a huge step forward from S4E1...I'm curious to hear what you see as so disgraceful about it.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on May 16, 2012, 01:05:13 pm: Ill give it another try tonight but I'm with crazytails on this one. It's just not fun at all. Sonic handles like he's in a snow drift at all times and the co-op mechanic is contrived and terribly implemented. Enabling team attacks is awkward and breaks the game's flow. I don't know how any one could claim the game has better physics than Generations. I've never felt so encumbered playing a platformer before. Jumping and spinning with sonic should always feel like a joy! Instead, the moment you do either the character becomes sluggish and unresponsive. It really is a slap in the face.

The game's only redeeming quality at this point is the art direction/visuals. These are some of the best level motifs I've seen in a long time for a sonic game. For the record, I'm at the boss of the desert level right now.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SaturnineNights on May 16, 2012, 01:10:50 pm: Quote from: Radrappy on May 16, 2012, 01:05:13 pm
For the record, I'm at the boss of the desert level right now.

See how you feel after you've finished the game. The final zones are a treat.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: stevetheman90 on May 16, 2012, 01:32:20 pm: I will some this up the best I have fun playing the game and that is all that matters to me
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Shigs on May 16, 2012, 02:32:42 pm: The reviewers out there are fucking hypocrites. They loved Episode 1 and gave it 9's and shit. Now, they say this one is even better and give it like, 5/10. fucking insulting. Nice way to listen to the whiny retro fanboys and act like fucking sheep.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 16, 2012, 03:59:00 pm: I'm starting to think that the 5/10's are just reviewers giving episode 2 what they wish they had given episode 1. But since they can't change their ep 1 score, they're docking points from ep 2 just for the ep 1 connection.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SaturnineNights on May 16, 2012, 04:30:17 pm: http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/16/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-2-review/

This one is particularly annoying. The reviewer claims there's no perfect ending after getting all the Chaos Emeralds.....is that what the red rings are for, then?
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Shigs on May 16, 2012, 05:12:31 pm: Quote from: Shigs on May 16, 2012, 02:32:42 pm
The reviewers out there are fucking hypocrites. They loved Episode 1 and gave it 9's and shit. Now, they say this one is even better and give it like, 5/10. fucking insulting. Nice way to listen to the whiny retro fanboys and act like fucking sheep.

I'm gonna argue with myself here. I think the reason Sonic 4-2 is getting lower scores than eps 1 DESPITE being a better game has more to do with it's newness wearing off. Sonic 4-1 was the first HD/2D Sonic game. Critics loved it because it reminded them of sonic's heyday and they looked over many of it's glaring flaws. Now, we've had Generations since then and are less excited for eps 2. They aren't overlooking the flaws this time and will more likely nitpick more than the first one.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SaturnineNights on May 16, 2012, 05:18:43 pm: Quote from: Shigs on May 16, 2012, 05:12:31 pm
I'm gonna argue with myself here. I think the reason Sonic 4-2 is getting lower scores than eps 1 DESPITE being a better game has more to do with it's newness wearing off.

I dunno, I felt Ep2 had substantially more "fresh" ideas and concepts, and that the nods to the classic games were more tastefully and thoughtfully done. I think the negativity in reviews is partially due to critical harshness towards the Sonic franchise as a whole; Colors and Generations notwithstanding, there's a degree of animosity towards the series that few other games receive. I remember All-Stars Racing getting incredibly harsh reviews from some commentators, implying it's a Mario Kart clone, when other "Mario Kart clones" didn't receive nearly as much vitriol.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 17, 2012, 06:22:42 am: I was glancing over Metacritic.com to check Sonic 4: Episode II and compare it to Sonic 4: Episode I.
Sonic 4: Episode I actually had negative reviews.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/30wms06.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/eg1xde.jpg)

It's a little too early to judge. But if all the reviews are either mixed or positive it could be seen as an overall improvement.
I read through some of the reviews, even the mixed ones say that there is nothing wrong with the gameplay in and of itself(ergo not broken or wonky).
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on May 17, 2012, 06:48:02 am: Quote from: SaturnineNights on May 16, 2012, 11:52:16 am
CrazyTails, how is S4E2 a disgrace to the Sonic franchise? I've rather enjoyed it...the music is miles above E1, there are clever nods to a few classic games, and the level design is far more imaginative than Sonic Generations Classic was.

Not to mention the bosses are actually really impressive; I can't remember the last time a Sonic boss was genuinely foreboding...and the special stages are a treat. Almost as cool as the Sonic 3D Blast Saturn special stage. Almost. ;)

The physics are still a little iffy, but it's a huge step forward from S4E1...I'm curious to hear what you see as so disgraceful about it.
I respect your opinion but I just don't think that is enough for sonic 4 episode 2. The way you are describing it like you are describing a very ordinary platformer. Sonic should not be an "ordinary" platforming game. It should be the best thing ever if not better than its predecessors. S4e2 is not a bad game, but for a sequel to the classics, to be one of the worst 2d sonic games(maybe even a little bit worse than some of the game gear games) is just wrong at so many levels from a principled point of view. What has been fixed from episode 1 to 2 is the instant loss of momentum. Air inertia has been fixed drastically which are great plusses. But besides that, the level design is still very basic and sometimes even automated to the point where you'd think DIMPS designs their levels in a very formulatic way. Safe sky fortress, which is quite an impressive level.

For sonic music standards, the music is very bad actually. I wasn't a big fan of episode 1's music either but episode 2's music seems worse in some ways, and even the good ones fall flat because they're looped in seconds. I just don't get how little care there's putten into this specific game. Do you really think this is the way a sonic 4 should have ever been treaten?

The game actually feels unfinished in a few departments. The red rings for example have been confirmed to do nothing but achieve a trophy/achievement. Supersonic mode is not so much a supersonic mode because he gets back his episode 1 control/physics and transforms back everytime you use a team movement.

The bosses are debatable but personally I hate the fact that the bosses take so long only because they're very cinematic and make you wait before he's open for an attack. They just drag on too much for no reason sometimes. May become a bigger issue in a boss rush or when simply redoing them. I like the sand ocean boss however.

Special stage is an upgrade to sonic 2's and is indeed great yet still very unoriginal for a game that is called sonic 4. Yeah this is also something that irks me to death. This game should be a sequel of new original ideas, instead we are still getting renewed/redone content. I still don't get that.

Overall it's just dissapointing. I enjoy sonic advance more, I even enjoy sonic rush more than sonic 4, which should never be the case. Sonic 4 almost feels like marketing first and a game second. That is why I think it's disgraceful.

@Barry and shigs on the reviews

I think you both may be spot on. Realisation may have come later
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 17, 2012, 12:55:51 pm: The good scores (http://www.oxm.co.uk/41628/reviews/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-2-review/) are starting to show up... (http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/05/sonic-4-episode-2-review/)
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2012, 01:43:58 pm: They sure are:

http://spong.com/feature/10110692/Review-Sonic-the-Hedgehog-4-Episode-II

http://www.gamestrust.de/test,sonic-hedgehog-4-episode-2-2d-jump-n-run-feinsten,id837,0.html

http://www.eurogamer.de/articles/2012-05-11-sonic-4-episode-2

http://www.gameswelt.de/articles/reviews/160050-Sonic_the_Hedgehog_4_Episode_2/index.html

http://www.oxmonline.com/sonic-hedgehog-4-episode-ii-review
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on May 17, 2012, 03:43:45 pm: To be fair, the 9/10 was from Svend.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 17, 2012, 05:24:35 pm: OK, after I downloaded it. I've been playing for the past two hours.

Let me be clear... If you are going into this game thinking it's going to be a cakewalk like Episode I was, don't. The game is deceptive, it will not hold your hand. Some situations require minimal margin of error, not as cheap as the token massive bottomless pit in some S4:EP1 stages, though. Same goes with Sonic 4:Episode II's bonus stages, the first ones seem deceptively easy... like Sonic 3D: Blast's special bonus stages.

Oil Desert Zone which I haven't finished yet (haven't beaten the boss yet, not because I can't, I just don't know how to fight his second state), is already proving to be a very challenging level.

The bosses, the few I've faced thus far... Man, it feels like I'm fighting the final boss from Sonic & Knuckles every single time. They are being really creative with some of these bouts.

Now the visuals, Sonic 4:Episode I has some visually stimulating stuff, but this one... It's mesmerizing. The Christmas themes in White Park, the glimpses of sunlight and the waterfalls in Sylvania. Even Oil Desert has it's charm.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2012, 05:36:28 pm: yeah, we gave a lot of love to the bosses in this week's podcast. really inventive stuff.

do you need a hint for the oil desert boss? heres a subtle hint: follow the sign, toe not heel
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 17, 2012, 06:43:57 pm: Thanks for the tip. I'll try it tomorrow.

If I could also say another thing that might knock a few gamers down a peg, there is no Road of Cards-type stage that gives you a ton of 1ups.

Here's another hint of my own, [spoiler]don't know if anyone noticed but on the very first Sylvania Castle Act 1, as soon as you start the level head left, there's an 1up TV there, for no aparent reason. I found this out, like when I started playing.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 17, 2012, 08:12:27 pm: Another secret I found: [spoiler]Oil Desert Act 2 - take the first oil stream to the bottom and back track to under the falling oil, theres three ring boxes giving you 30 rings[/spoiler] I love hidden items in Sonic games, but nothing beats item boxes in palm trees in Sonic 1.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: stevetheman90 on May 18, 2012, 09:58:01 am: Have to agree with you guys the bosses are amazing, gives the game an arcade feel. The fact that bosses change how they fight is awesome. The difficulty is perfect as well, the game brings back the 90's concept of memorizing levels.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 18, 2012, 10:10:31 am: The low scores and the negativity Sonic Stadium has towards the game is really surprising me. Like, I'll admit there ARE times where I have my fanboy goggles on and I put up with things I deep down don't like (SA1's Big fishing, Heroes, Unleashed, some of Colors) but I was honestly enjoying Episode II. No lying to myself, no moments where I felt like I had to accept something (like Episode 1's physics). I just was enjoying the game and (most of) what it was throwing at me. Whatever didn't stick with me, didn't anger me. And often moments that I disliked, like some platforming sections, got better when I found new easier ways to get through them.

I don't think I've ever been this on the the side of honestly not getting the reviews as I am with Episode II. It's really quite weird. Must be the opposite of how Cube felt when he hated Bayonetta and everybody was giving it a 10/10

I think I've made the decision that with regard to those who don't like the game, I will never get why they dislike it, and really I don't need to be told in an effort to change my opinion. They can have their opinion, but don't do the "game is shit" dance and keep shouting it on forums and social networks. Makes you look like a complainy cunt *cough*Jim Sterling and his buds*cough*.

As for my liking the game, if SEGA says "how'd you like it?" I'll tell them my own thoughts just as I'd assume those in the negative opinion spectrum would. I'd probably mention what I think needs improving, but I'll also note what I liked.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Happy Cat on May 18, 2012, 10:23:49 am: I don't see why people hate the game so much, it's so much fun.

The only thing I don't like about it is the limit they put on gaining speed through momentum, which even Episode 1 didn't have, but I can see why they did that, co-op would be no fun if there wasn't a limit on how much speed you could gain, the current limit on speed makes it so you can run next to your friend in co-op without getting left behind.

They could of still done that for co-op and left the speed unlocked for single player, but its not a big deal, but that's my only issue with the game really.

Co-op is tons of fun.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 18, 2012, 05:53:16 pm: Another cool thing that I'd like to point out: [spoiler]If it looks like you aren't going to finish a special stage, just hit Retry at any given moment. You can actually play the special stage zone as many times as you want, until you actually get the Emerald[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2012, 05:56:40 pm: Can anyone explain to me how to unlock Episode Metal? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on May 18, 2012, 06:12:49 pm: Quote from: -nSega54- on May 18, 2012, 05:56:40 pm
Can anyone explain to me how to unlock Episode Metal? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Once the stage select/world map is unlocked (that is, after the first act of the game is completed), you have to exit the game and open it again to unlock episode metal.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: SOUP on May 18, 2012, 06:24:58 pm: Quote from: ezodagrom on May 18, 2012, 06:12:49 pm
Once the stage select/world map is unlocked (that is, after the first act of the game is completed), you have to exit the game and open it again to unlock episode metal.
Happened to me by accident.
Pleasant surprise though :).
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2012, 07:00:08 pm: lol...that's weird, but okay. I'll give it a shot.

By the way, my review of the game here:

http://nintendosega54.blogspot.com/2012/05/as-long-time-sonic-fan-it-was-exciting.html
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: stevetheman90 on May 18, 2012, 07:35:07 pm: Just unlocked Super Sonic, totally worth it.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 18, 2012, 07:41:25 pm: Just finished Episode II and collected all the Chaos Emeralds. Why is the 7th Special stage so annoyingly hard!?

Anyway, the final boss is one visual treat!
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 18, 2012, 08:07:03 pm: Yeah, i've done all but the final boss. I think it's too much for me on a Friday night, so I'll beat it tomorrow.

Entered SEGA's multiple purchase initiative, since I have XBLA and iOS. Went by the name SEGAbits, figured its free advertising. :P
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: stevetheman90 on May 18, 2012, 08:28:56 pm: The last Special Stage was annoying, that loop on the second part was the key to success.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Kori-Maru on May 19, 2012, 04:02:44 am: Obtained all the trophies and achievements on the game and leveling up on the leaderboards like a boss. I see that the same hacker who hacked Episode I is back ruining people's fun on the leaderboards, but I wouldn't worry about that. Overall the game was challenging, but fun. I might go through a third or forth playthrough on my other two copies.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 19, 2012, 11:53:04 am: I find a lot of what I read at Sonic Stadium to be hilarious. So much fucking doom and gloom. Shit like "I think SEGA should cut their losses and stop with Sonic 4 now... its ruining the franchise... theyre waisitng money blah fuckity blah boo hoo"

For all we know, Ep II will be enjoyed by casual consumers and those who just like a fun game and aren't on Sonic forums 24/7. They make up for a LOT of the sales. Some reviews are good, some average and a few are negative. But user reviews are very good. Like 4.5/5 good. That, coupled with strong sales, is all SEGA needs to deem the game a success and warrant a sequel, which I think will happen.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 25, 2012, 07:32:12 am: I'm just going to rant just one more time, after reading the GameTrailers review... I think there seems to be a major misconception about Sonic the Hedgehog, as a whole. Some of the reviews I've heard and the replies from fans give me the impression that there really is no middle ground on what exactly a Sonic game is all about or what ought to be.

After thinking it through, Sonic the Hedgehog as a brand and character, is an empty vessel to use for whatever SEGA and Sonic Team wants to do with it at any given point. And when you actually examine everything in context, you know it's true. Every iteration of the character feels remarkably different from the last. Because there really is no theology regarding his character. Not even the sligthest attempt to have some continuity.

He's not a clearly defined character, nor the actual gameplay is even remotely defined. He has super speed. Sonic is much like Super Mario and the few surviving game mascots, whom are are still around due to multiple iterations and changes. Some good, some bad.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on May 25, 2012, 09:50:30 am: ^There is a great in depth thread about that over at sonicretro. It is quite an interesting read since the OP is really well thoroughly written. I agree too, sonic used to be very defining in his early days. Now it's like everything except for sonic generations (since it was a throwback, but even that had green hill next to zones like crisis city...) are different. As if everything from the past is instantly forgotten

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=e41648c016fa7f32f136649ae004f649&showtopic=28924
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 25, 2012, 09:55:16 am: My beef with bad reviews is the insistance that a Sonic 4 must surpass Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

Look, I WOULD love a game that blew S3&K out of the water, but I am a realist. Sonic Team as it was in the Genesis days is long gone. The team has changed so much that they don't have the same people and goals that the franchise had in the mid 90's. Not to mention that the landscape has changed for games. In the mid 90's 2D Sonic was a AAA top tier type of game. Now, in 2012, 2D platformers are retro throwbacks (rightfully) relegated to digital download services. There HAVE been exceptions: Mario has 2D disc releases, but they are mainly retro rehashes intended to appeal to older fans who remember the old days. Not to mention, Nintendo has the money to spend on these types of games and Mario will sell even if it's a spin-off involving player dressing Mario with the Wiimote.

Rayman is another exception, but (and this is what I had thought I heard) Origins was not a sales success. The thing dropped in price within a few months. I got it for $25 when it was initially, what, like $50?

So what I'm getting at is that (1) a fully 2D Sonic game will never be a AAA disc release as it is both a gamble for SEGA and, I think, not the company's goal for the character. Sonic is first a 3D game (Colors, Unleashed, Generations), second a spin-off character (M&S, ASR, Riders) and thirdly a 2D game (portable, digital download). Also (2) Sonic Team does not have the same ideals for the franchise as they did in the 90's and they do not have the same talent. They CAN made a fun 2D game (Generations 2D sections, Episode II) but they cannot make something that will beat the classics unless they put a LOT of effort and money behind it, which as I mentioned is not the goal of the series.

So basically, I'm happy with what they can give. I liked Ep II and I hope we see an Ep III. I don't care if it isn't a Sonic 3 killer or what we dreamed Sonic 4 would be back in the mid-90's. I just want 2D Sonic with the classic stage progression on my home console. I'm glad 2D Sonic broke out of the portable handheld world.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on May 25, 2012, 01:10:19 pm: I just want fun, high quality games. I couldn't really care about the theology of the franchise. I think when people dive into that shit, they're really just looking for reasons why the games aren't as fun now as they were in the 90's.

For me, what's wrong with ep 2 isn't that it somehow breaks the sonic brand, it's that it just isn't any fun. This is a very subjective thing I realize and i'd love to have a civil discussion about it with you barry seeing as how you're probably one of the game's biggest cheer leaders.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 25, 2012, 02:25:37 pm: Cheer leaders? ha ha! No no, that would be Ken Balough.

I just enjoyed it. It didn't knock my socks off, but I had fun with it. and in the end thats all I look for in a game: to have fun and enjoy it. Ep ii had both those things, plus a few surpises (the bosses, some of the set pieces).

Really, I just enjoyed it. Not really looking to debate the game. I don't mind discussions, but I'm not really looking to analyze ep II. I feel i've spoken enough about it on the podcast and in the round table. lol, actually ready to talk about other stuff, like where the hell is Anarchy Reigns. :P
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on May 25, 2012, 03:12:48 pm: @CrazyTails

Bravo, that opening post was right on the MONE-AY.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on June 08, 2012, 11:03:21 pm: According to the Steam registry, there's a patch being tested for the PC version of Episode 2, and the beta entry has been updated a few times, it's now version ID 15 (the release version, which is what we can play, is version ID 11).

(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3430/s4ep2v15.jpg)

It has gone through quite a few test versions, that makes me wonder what the patch will do whenever it is released.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: max_cady on June 11, 2012, 03:13:48 pm: I was listening to the podcast Sonic Talk #09 and Ken(and he's the PR guy) does make a very interesting point. The Digital Download market was not the same as it was in 2009/2010, so maybe in that sense, Sonic 4: Episode II might have a little more competiton than expected.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Aki-at on June 11, 2012, 05:39:41 pm: Quote from: CrazyTails on May 25, 2012, 09:50:30 am
^There is a great in depth thread about that over at sonicretro. It is quite an interesting read since the OP is really well thoroughly written. I agree too, sonic used to be very defining in his early days. Now it's like everything except for sonic generations (since it was a throwback, but even that had green hill next to zones like crisis city...) are different. As if everything from the past is instantly forgotten

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=e41648c016fa7f32f136649ae004f649&showtopic=28924

He is pulling his Sonic and the Secret Ring numbers straight out of VGChartz so his "sales" argument I cannot agree with, this is a website that has numbers for R Thief in America when it is not even out! What about Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles? Both titles which did only 1.5 million, whilst Sonic Colours on one platform is only 400,000 or so of meeting that target, or how Sonic Adventure being a pack in did just 2 million, Sonic Unleashed (Spreaded over 4 formats I will give you that) still outsold that title.

And I do not see how two different Sonic's cannot be aimed at two groups of people? In Japan, the 3D Marios struggle to do a million, the 2D Marios do over 3 million effortlessly. Two different styles or gameplay types can be made together, they just have to be good. Which has not been the case for the past decade with a few notable exceptions.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: CrazyT on June 14, 2012, 07:05:14 pm: Yeah I think there may be some errors in the OP but I still think the guy has a view very good points. Sonic's "essence" was very apealing and I think it still is. It's just that they are being too inconsistent with each game. There is little iconic about the franchise compared to let say most of nintendo's franchises. For example, they had actually removed monitors eventually, just like how they went from imaginitive levels to more real life based environments. Badniks were eventually removed, the artstyle was changed etc etc. These inconsistencies have had a great impact imo because the identity of the franchise which many have grown up with has been lost. Sometimes I meet friends which describe their memories about the hedgehog and when I show them all these new stuff, while they do think it look spectecular, they don't recognize most of whats in their minds. You could say it's nostalgia, but them being so fond of specifically the hedgehogs past apeal over all other things, says alot about its apeal as well. Green hills vibrant looks and music arent iconic for nothing.

The comparison your making about mario isn't the same as sonic's. This is less about gameplay in which I agree it has to be good. But this is more about visual apeal which draws alot of people as well imo. I do think the classic levels in sonic generations showed how much it just works and feels natural, and it also shows such a huge contrast between era's. Though sonic colors's planet wisp is a great level, but then I have always praised sonic colors' levels. Imo these are very important things to be considered for a franchise.

Edit: I just want to add, I think the biggest part of sonic 3's and knuckles decline in sales really had to do with marketing. Sonic 2 was all over the place while I never knew sonic 3 or knuckles existed untill the dreamcast era. Don't know how things were in other countries but this is my experience in the netherlands.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: Radrappy on June 15, 2012, 01:43:26 am: Quote from: Aki-at on June 11, 2012, 05:39:41 pm

And I do not see how two different Sonic's cannot be aimed at two groups of people? In Japan, the 3D Marios struggle to do a million, the 2D Marios do over 3 million effortlessly. Two different styles or gameplay types can be made together, they just have to be good. Which has not been the case for the past decade with a few notable exceptions.

the sonic brand name is not strong enough to do this successfully. Sega can hardly afford to make one main series entry every year and a half or so (which for the record is a much faster rate than mario). How do you propose they efficiently produce twice that amount? What they need to do is make a great fucking game. Not a solid game, a GREAT game. Hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread
Post by: ezodagrom on June 15, 2012, 02:46:56 pm: Today a patch was released for the PC version of Sonic 4 Episode 2, now anti-aliasing works for any 16:9 resolution. It even works with custom resolutions, like 640x360, 800x450, 1440x810, 1680x945 (these custom resolutions can be used by editing the UserConfig.cfg file with a notepad, these should be used only in the window mode though), as long as the resolution is 16:9, anti-aliasing should work fine (the following link has a guide on how to force anti-aliasing).

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?411178-PC-Version-Sonic-4-and-Anti-Aliasing (http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?411178-PC-Version-Sonic-4-and-Anti-Aliasing)

Here are a few 1920x1080 comparison pictures.

Before the patch:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506325084/8472AF3B9C68EBBD9D6EDDDB819E77A1AC0FF750/ (http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506325084/8472AF3B9C68EBBD9D6EDDDB819E77A1AC0FF750/)

After the patch:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506224720/315EEA7FC731810A41C65EEF46721DDC045746B6/ (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506224720/315EEA7FC731810A41C65EEF46721DDC045746B6/)

After the patch with 8xMSAA forced through the graphics drivers:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506275314/32CFDE2ECBDB01E36D3C8D27DA5211F47545B94C/ (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542930348506275314/32CFDE2ECBDB01E36D3C8D27DA5211F47545B94C/)

I would have also taken a picture with SSAA, but I don't have a 1920x1080 monitor, the pictures were taken in my brother's PC (his card can only force MSAA through the drivers, there's no option for SSAA).

Other than the image quality improvements, the patch also improved performance at lower resolutions.
This was tested in my almost 6 years old laptop, with a Core 2 Duo T7200 (2.0GHz) and a Mobility Radeon X1600, in the early part of Sylvania Castle Act 1:

Quote
1280x720 Before the patch - 20~25fps
1280x720 After the patch - 20~25fps

640x480 Before the patch - 25~30fps
640x480 After the patch - 45~50fps

800x450 (custom resolution) Before the patch - 25~30fps
800x450 (custom resolution) After the patch - 45~55fps

640x360 (custom resolution) Before the patch - 25~35fps
640x360 (custom resolution) After the patch - 60fps (with a few rare minor drops)