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Off Topic => Everything Else => Topic started by: Sharky on July 27, 2010, 08:36:37 am
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Text.
As Mademan said lets not turn this into a god argument.
But I must say you are wrong about one thing, In this day and age as much as people make out how terrible it is... The world is the most civilized it has ever been... ever. In many many ways.
Lets not forget the two biggest reasons for war are land mass and religion... holy crusades anyone?
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You gotta be joking me.. how can you say the world is more civilized than ever? There has never been so much war, so many diseases, so many natural disasters and so much moral degradation, all happening at the same time. And none of those things had to do with religion.
These days the war is all about the oil and political tension overall.
And you want to compare the holy crusades (which I believe were plain wrong and anti-biblical mind you) with war these days? Did you know that the last 100 years alone had more war causalities than all previous human history combined?
The world's messed up man.. The people are messed up!
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War, diseases, and natural disasters are always going to happen. Moral degradation, however, is a matter of opinion so I'm leaving that out of my part of the discussion.
Let's compare war, diseases, and natural disasters in 2010 to war, diseases, and natural disasters in 1310, 1410, 1510 and hell, even the 1940's. In today's world we have a general connectedness via technology and media. Today's world may have better weaponry but we also have a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts. There are still battles and fighting, but definitely not at the scale of 500 or 1,000 years ago. There is little chance that North America and Europe would ever go into all out war with each other. Yes, North Korea and the Middle East are still problems. But the good definitely outweighs the bad in today's world in terms of war.
As for diseases, shits always mutating and finding new ways to fuck with our feeble bodies. Nothing will stop it outright, however medical science is always improving and keeping many potential diseases under control. Today's medicine > yesterday's medicine.
Natural disasters, again, will always be about. However, we have ways of pinpointing when many disasters will happen and where they will happen. Honestly, it's humanity's fault that we live in every inch of the globe. It's not natures fault that we live in deadly hurricane zones and volcanic islands.
Anyway, point I'm getting at is that Sharky is right. The world kicks ass right now. yes, there are problems, but they're sure aren't as bad as they used to be. Always look on the bright side of life.
Sorry if this isn't book related. :-/
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You gotta be joking me.. how can you say the world is more civilized than ever? There has never been so much war, so many diseases, so many natural disasters and so much moral degradation, all happening at the same time. And none of those things had to do with religion.
These days the war is all about the oil and political tension overall.
And you want to compare the holy crusades (which I believe were plain wrong and anti-biblical mind you) with war these days? Did you know that the last 100 years alone had more war causalities than all previous human history combined?
The world's messed up man.. The people are messed up!
I don't know what world you're living in... But it's not the same one as the rest of us.
You could do with putting down those religious books and picking up a history book or 10.
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Let's compare war, diseases, and natural disasters in 2010 to war, diseases, and natural disasters in 1310, 1410, 1510 and hell, even the 1940's. In today's world we have a general connectedness via technology and media. Today's world may have better weaponry but we also have a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts. There are still battles and fighting, but definitely not at the scale of 500 or 1,000 years ago. There is little chance that North America and Europe would ever go into all out war with each other. Yes, North Korea and the Middle East are still problems. But the good definitely outweighs the bad in today's world in terms of war.
Did everyone in the US blacked out in between 1939 and 1945?
Second World War alone:
Allies:
Military dead:
Over 16,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 45,000,000
Total dead:
Over 61,000,000 (1937-45)
Unadjusted U.S. Cost
$288 Billion as of 1945
Axis:
Military dead:
Over 8,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 4,000,000
Total dead:
Over 12,000,000 (1937-45)
Present Day U.S. Cost
$3.48 Trillion
Nearly 50MILLION innocent civilians killed isn't "a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts".
And this was one war. Ok, it was the biggest, but what about the slaughter of innocent people in Iraq that's going on in a daily basis for years now? Is that civilized? Hell no!
"You could do with putting down those religious books and picking up a history book or 10."
Is this your punchline or just a sad remark on your behalf?
Natural disasters are happening more and more due to increased negative human activity in the environment. Some theories say that overpopulation of megacities alone could be the cause of some earthquakes. Due to the extreme pressure applied in a short area of earth crust.
As for diseases, there is increased medical care and treatment for most of them. But that treatment only reaches a fraction of the world's population. Most of people in the world is seeing diseases increasing and becoming more deadly while their medical services struggle to help patients with flu or diarrhea.
The world is getting worse by the second. You are showing a very narrow and selfish way of thinking. When you're talking about the World, you must take into account that for you to live better than ever before theres much more people living in misery.
Africa for example has twice the population of the US and EIGHTEEN times LESS money.
In the US alone, the 1% most wealthy people have as much money as the lower 90% of the population combined. Does that sound good to you? And this study was made like 15 years ago, it's getting worse every year.
Want more? How about rising suicide rates? The economical crisis? The increasing pollution? The increasing criminality rates?
And you think moral values are subjective? How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?
In less that a century mankind has made more damage to the planet, killed more people and overlooked more corruption than in previous 6000 years.
And you're telling me the world is better than ever?
This might be the most depressing post I've made here, but it's the way our World is. Having good things doesn't mean the bad ones go away. And the fact that the media just wipes them out of our society's awareness just makes all this "advanced civilization" just look more and more hypocrite.
Mind you I'm not overlooking the good things that have come out over the years. I'm just pointing out the nasties that people often forget, but that are the reality of most of the population.
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Yup, I'm telling you that right now, year 2010, July 27th on a Tuesday at 12:04 pm that the world is better than ever. 79 degrees, sun is shining. Great day to be alive. Go have a drink, get laid and chill the fuck out.
I'm not going to toss about numbers and try to justify why shit like WWII went on, but I can tell you that right now, today, shit like that isn't going to happen. The events of WWII was the boiling point for the world, caused by a number of problems that have since been solved or have been much improved. Like I said, majority of the Western and Eastern world is run by people who would rather sit at a table to discuss problems than kill millions in genocide and slap each other around on a battle field. Sure bad eggs exist (North Korea, Taliban) but you have to have the bad to have the good.
Today > 1930's and 40's.
Want more?
Sure.
How about rising suicide rates?
Raising population = raising suicide rates. If more people exist, then more opportunities for depressed folks to cut things short on their own. The remedy? Families and friends should be more aware of the signs and get those they know help.
The economical crisis?
Economy always goes up and down, it's how it works. It sucks, sure, but that's how it works.
The increasing pollution?
Increasing awareness of pollution =
The increasing criminality rates?
Sigh... more people = more crime.
And you think moral values are subjective?
Yup! One man's gay pride parade is another man's step backwards for humanity. Not saying you or I are one or the other, just pointing out that morals ARE subjective. THat's why their morals. If they weren't subjective they would be truths.
How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?
Higher population = higher risk. Also, families should be more open about using protection.
All your arguments are coming down to "things are more now than they were in the past", well no fuckity shit. The world is growing, stuff like that happens. Despite that fact, politically and socially the world has never been more connected and (for the most part) free. Also, the world has never been more AWARE of common problems. Sure they may exist, but we know they exist and are taking action in correcting them.
Honestly, if you really think the world is as fucked up as you say it is, then get off the internet and help someone.
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"Honestly, if you really think the world is as fucked up as you say it is, then get off the internet and help someone."
Well, that's my plan :)
Thing is as the world is getting bigger, it isn't getting better and that just makes it worse. So many resources that could be used to help out the needed are being used to get the powerful even more power.
That's why I don't get how you guys can say the world is better than ever. For us personally, undoubtedly. For most people, not by a long shot.
"politically and socially the world has never been more connected"
This though isn't true. [EDIT: It never is. Check out chronicles and reports on the first half of 1914 (just before WWI) and you'll see most of them stating the same things you are, and we all know how that turned out...it only took literally a couple of bullets to start a war.]
"The events of WWII was the boiling point for the world, caused by a number of problems that have since been solved or have been much improved."
This shows you have great conviction and trust in our political system. I don't. And we both could get arguments for our opinions, but I don't think it's worth it right now.. :)
I am chilled though.. I sometimes may come out looking angry or something, but it's just my way of using argumentation.. I love talking to you guys and it's all in good spirit!
Sorry it just doesn't have nothing to do with books.
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Most wars are not caused by religion, that really gets my goat when people claim that...
Religion is often PART of some wars, as any difference of opinion/culture would be, but it's not nearly as bad as Sharky makes it out to be.
He listed the Crusades, which is what, 11 wars out of hundreds/thousands? Even the Crusades were not really as religiously motivated as people make out. Religion was what they used to gain support for the wars, but many of the crusades were more motivated by gaining control of the Silk Road or other trade routes, or to unify warring nations in Europe against a common enemy.
Take it from someone who has worked with the Catholic Church's charities, religion can be a very good thing in this world. There were literally hundreds of people and branches throughout the state and country all helping out anyone who needed it. Even within the organisations there were people of all different faiths working together. It's a far cry from the way many people depict religion.
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I disagree about religion's part in the crusades. The Children's' Crusade saw them marching children to their deaths, using them as human shields because god would never allow the children to be harmed.
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Ok let me reword it, many, many wars are in part caused by religion, backed by religion or in the name of religion.
Crackdude why are you using thing that happened in the past to try to justify that today, right now the world is in the worst situation its ever been in...
average life span has gone up.
Median household wealth has doubled since 1965.
The fraction of the population living in poverty is falling,
As are teen drinking, drug use, and pregnancies, the only reason it sounds bad now is because in the past these things were common and the health risks were unknown so it wasn’t an issue.
People have never lived so well as they do today... Think of all the mod cons we have people just didn’t have, even 60 years ago. Hell even 30!
The chances of another World War are pretty slim, Was in Europe or America is almost certainly never going to happen again unless something huge and unforeseen happens in the future. But a few hundred years ago Europe was a war zone... Forget World War 2... How about both 100 year wars? How about the Dark Ages? How about dying as a child from things that now are considered a mild complaint due to modern medicine?
Hell, you say you read the bible... Was Jesus not tortured and killed by the Romans for having different beliefs? And you tell me the world is a worse place NOW then it's ever been?
Hell how about being able to take a poop with out walking to the bottom of the garden in the middle of the night because the outhouse isnt connected to the main house since theres no sewerage system yet? Thats only 80 years ago.
And lets not forget woman have never ever, EVER had it better then they do today.
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As I said, for us (the "privileged") the world is getting better. But for most people it isn't.
Jesus wasn't killed for different beliefs. He was killed because the religious leaders of the time were at risk of losing their power and influence. So they tried to undermine Jesus preaching and eventually Jesus let himself "get caught" by them (as the prophecies foretold anyway).
But I get what you're aiming at.
Still, only the most fortunate people of the world have decent medical care, commodities and hell even sewer systems (or water for that matter). Most of the world lives in what is considered extreme poverty in the US and EU.
That's the issue. The world is great for some people, but most are in worst conditions than my dog. At least his poop gets picked up.
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Almost everyone in the world lives better then they did 100 years ago... Even those who live in pretty poor countries have benifited in some ways from the world today... Be it medical, charity, well digging, peace keepers or as little as wearing western made clothes.
In the majority of places the most poor today are still living in better conditions then the most poor 100 years ago...
The world is simply a better place now then it ever was in general... It's almost absurd to argue otherwise... You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you...
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"You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you..."
On the contrary. The media maneuvers everything on it's behalf. These are only my personal conclusions on the things I sometimes research about. Of course it is all very relative, the same way you would suddenly change your mind about it if a new war erupted I would change mine if I thought there was reasons for it..
I just don't see the world as the happy place you guys see. Of course my life is a happy and hopefully fulfilling one either way, I have the best conditions for that and I do use them for full effect.
I think I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. And our planet is full of great stuff too.
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And our planet is full of great stuff too.
Like SEGA Republic! :D
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"You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you..."
On the contrary. The media maneuvers everything on it's behalf. These are only my personal conclusions on the things I sometimes research about. Of course it is all very relative, the same way you would suddenly change your mind about it if a new war erupted I would change mine if I thought there was reasons for it..
I just don't see the world as the happy place you guys see. Of course my life is a happy and hopefully fulfilling one either way, I have the best conditions for that and I do use them for full effect.
I think I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. And our planet is full of great stuff too.
So every reason we have given isnt enough?
So you actually currently believe that the world in 2010 is the worst its ever been?
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[youtube:lf90g944]oA0IpS_3S-0[/youtube:lf90g944]
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So every reason we have given isnt enough?
So you actually currently believe that the world in 2010 is the worst its ever been?
You are showing much faith in our political and social foundations, something I do not share. That alone will make us bias to opposite opinions..
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I disagree about religion's part in the crusades. The Children's' Crusade saw them marching children to their deaths, using them as human shields because god would never allow the children to be harmed.
That's one example of fanaticism. I'll have to read more about the Children's crusade though, but my point still stands that most of them were not as religion based as people sometimes make out.
Ok let me reword it, many, many wars are in part caused by religion, backed by religion or in the name of religion.
If you are going to extend it to any war that had any involvement with religion, then you could say the same about just about anything on earth. Money, Politics, personal issues, skin colour, resources, land, etc etc.
Honestly, I don't think religion is any more responsible for wars than any of those other things, and yet people don't get mad at others for having political views or being involved in finance etc.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome)
The world is better than it has ever been, you just hear about the bad shit more, and that's not a bad thing either, if you know about things you can do something about them.
your average pleb 1000 years ago couldnt tell you africa existed, let alone if a child was starving there.
How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?
are you serious? up until the 1800s it was common for 12-13 year old girls to be married off and get pregnant.
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You are showing much faith in our political and social foundations, something I do not share. That alone will make us bias to opposite opinions..
No, I'm telling you simple facts about the world today...
Modern technology has made almost every aspect of life easier,
There’s war crime laws now,
Child Labour is illegal in most places,
Child marriage and sexual acts on children are illegal in most places,
Woman have just as much rights as men in a lot of places,
Medical advances have made yesterdays killers into today’s colds...
Police forces are getting more efficient with technology,
Crime has gone down over the years,
Life expectancy has gone up in most places,
People are more tolerant of others.
Sure some places are better off then others but pretty much all places are better off then they were 100 years ago. Europe went though its industrial revolution first, that’s is now why we are the 'rich world'.
But we had to do it alone... with no outside aid, it was a horrible time to live, smog, children put in the most horrible jobs you could imagine that not even an adult would be expected to do... Far worse things. But now we have emerged from that and now other countries that are going though their own versions of this have lots of guidance and laws to abide and outside help, they'll never have it as bad.
You go to some of the most far reaching, most remote tribes in the world and there’s a good chance you will see at least some of them wearing western made clothes maybe even having a village jeep to get around and modern medicine.
If you are going to extend it to any war that had any involvement with religion, then you could say the same about just about anything on earth. Money, Politics, personal issues, skin colour, resources, land, etc etc.
Honestly, I don't think religion is any more responsible for wars than any of those other things, and yet people don't get mad at others for having political views or being involved in finance etc.
So you have come full circle and are agreeing with me.
All I ever said is that it is one of the biggest, I said two biggest maybe I was hastey but it's easily one of the biggest reasons for war (and terrorism).
I never said I'm angry at people being religious! I'm not even trying to argue that he can't be or shouldn't just as I've never argued against people having political views or being in finance. I think lifes to short to tell people what to believe or even care what they believe.
I simply said from what I know Religions are one of the big causes of war and often make people narrow minded and intolerable to other people’s beliefs... even today.
And it boils down to this for me at least, If one guy that’s a Muslim and one guy that’s a Catholic become friends they might be the best of friends but at the end of the day if you bring up the subject both believe that the other is going to burn in hell... While I believe that nobody is going to burn in hell. Am I coming across as the bad guy here?
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Sharky u mad?
You're just repeating yourself. You won't convince me the world is all butterflies and sunshine..
The things you are describing only happen in a very small percentage of people. Most of the world is living as miserably as they were 100 years ago. Western tshirts sayin USA in the back won't help much. It certainly won't make up for the unfair goods trading and exploration that has been going on for centuries.
And African tribes aren't even the worst problem! What about poverty in China and India? Who's helping them?
You aren't religious and still have a very narrow vision of things. Religion has nothing to do with the way people are. If people are stupid while talking about religion they probably are stupid at many other things.
I also don't believe in hell. I simply believe that people that don't worship God will eventually die and...that's it. It easy to respect others. Too bad Catholicism only realized that this half century.
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Religion has nothing to do with the way people are.
Really? Because I swear one of the major reasons for religion was to establish a moral code governing how people should live their life. Sounds like religion has a lot to do with the way people are.
Example: two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. As such, sex became a very taboo topic of discussion amongst us and both had difficulties meeting women at our school for a relationship (we attended a liberal art school).
Their religion dictated no sex before marriage, they believed in that and as such they had a very different way of viewing relationships and couldn't fully understand friends (i.e. me) who DID have sex before marriage. An inhibition dictated by religion shaped them into who they were and currently are. Thus, religion had PLENTY to do with the way they are. 8-)
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So you have come full circle and are agreeing with me.
Not really... I'm saying that if you are going to be so vague as to just say that religion is involved in many wars, then I could probably say the same thing about anything we do each day.
You said that religion is the CAUSE of MOST wars, which I disagree with. You also said a lot of stuff about how people shouldn't pay much mind to religion or not spend more than a few minutes a day on it because it's damaging to a person, again something I totally disagree with.
In any event, seems like you mellowed out a bit on it since then, so eh... it's all cool. I don't particularly feel like getting into a huge argument, I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.
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I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.
Except I don't understand what that thing is in your avatar.
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I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.
Except I don't understand what that thing is in your avatar.
All is revealed within!
viewtopic.php?p=14238#p14238 (http://www.segabits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14238#p14238)
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Sharky u mad?
You're just repeating yourself. You won't convince me the world is all butterflies and sunshine..
crackdude u dumb?
No one and I mean no one here has said that the world is 'butterflies and sunshine' no one even started to hint that the world was perfect in any way.
What happened was YOU said that the world is WORSE now then it has ever been. Many people proved you wrong and you ignored it.
The things you are describing only happen in a very small percentage of people. Most of the world is living as miserably as they were 100 years ago. Western tshirts sayin USA in the back won't help much. It certainly won't make up for the unfair goods trading and exploration that has been going on for centuries.
And African tribes aren't even the worst problem! What about poverty in China and India? Who's helping them?
It's still better then it was 100 years ago thus the world is a better place...
What part of this do you not understand?
You aren't religious and still have a very narrow vision of things.
Explain?
Religion has nothing to do with the way people are. If people are stupid while talking about religion they probably are stupid at many other things.
So it seems.
I also don't believe in hell. I simply believe that people that don't worship God will eventually die and...that's it. It easy to respect others. Too bad Catholicism only realized that this half century.
Ok replace 'hell' with 'not going to heaven'... same thing.
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Not really... I'm saying that if you are going to be so vague as to just say that religion is involved in many wars, then I could probably say the same thing about anything we do each day.
You said that religion is the CAUSE of MOST wars, which I disagree with.
I'm pretty sure I said it was ONE OF the biggest causes. Which I think it has been. Religious war still goes on today in the form of terrorism.
You also said a lot of stuff about how people shouldn't pay much mind to religion or not spend more than a few minutes a day on it because it's damaging to a person, again something I totally disagree with.
I simply said you that you shouldn't dwell on it for too long, if you want set aside a few minuites a day to prey or what ever and then get on with your life. That, is my opinion... Disagree as much as you like.
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NOW I'm ignoring most of your reply. There's no need for calling me dumb and overreacting over what is MY OPINION. Sorry my opinion is different than yours. You have as much facts as I do. Two people looking at the same world from two different perspectives doesn't necessarily make neither of them wrong. And even if you think so, calling me dumb isn't much of a good way of "winning me over".
"It's still better then it was 100 years ago thus the world is a better place...
What part of this do you not understand?"
I do not understand the part where having MORE PEOPLE SUFFERING makes the world a better place.
"The world is getting bigger!" you say. Well that only AMPLIFIES the problems.
I have a different way of looking at the world. Maybe I'm dumb or something, you seem to know it all.
"Ok replace 'hell' with 'not going to heaven'... same thing."
I don't know at which point you think I believe I'll go to Heaven. When I die, I'm dead. I don't know where you are trying to go in this line of thought.
And yes, I am pissed off. There's no need for name calling in the middle of a fast-paced but otherwise respectful debate. :/
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"two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. "
I'm sure you meant to say 'they didn't PRACTICED sex before marriage' lol what is there to believe?
"An inhibition dictated by religion shaped them into who they were and currently are. Thus, religion had PLENTY to do with the way they are. "
Ok, I agree with this. I change my point of view.
I still think that a religion that makes someone a worse person isn't the right one.
Also, I don't think religion dictates anything.
If I have a religion and it tells me that I shouldn't have sex before marriage, it's my call. I get to decide what to do.. And if I do it I simply take any possible consequences.
The Bible does say that sex with someone other than your wife is sin. But that shouldn't make sex taboo. Just sayin..
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"two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. "
I'm sure you meant to say 'they didn't PRACTICED sex before marriage' lol what is there to believe?
I think we're having an english language misunderstanding here. When I say "They did not believe in sex before marriage." it means they did not believe that people should perform the act of sex before being married to the individual that is receiving said sex. Not that they didn't believe it could ever occur. Thas crazy! Sonic Sez!
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I think we're having an english language misunderstanding here. When I say "They did not believe in sex before marriage." it means they did not believe that people should perform the act of sex before being married to the individual that is receiving said sex. Not that they didn't believe it could ever occur. Thas crazy! Sonic Sez!
Oh! That was exactly what I wasn't getting lol
I did not knew it was said that way. I was trying to figure out how someone doesn't actually believe in sex happening lol
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NOW I'm ignoring most of your reply. There's no need for calling me dumb and overreacting over what is MY OPINION. Sorry my opinion is different than yours. You have as much facts as I do. Two people looking at the same world from two different perspectives doesn't necessarily make neither of them wrong. And even if you think so, calling me dumb isn't much of a good way of "winning me over".
You asked if I was mad, i asked if you were dumb... simple.
I'm not trying to win you over... I'm just telling you why you are wrong.
I do not understand the part where having MORE PEOPLE SUFFERING makes the world a better place.
"The world is getting bigger!" you say. Well that only AMPLIFIES the problems.
I have a different way of looking at the world. Maybe I'm dumb or something, you seem to know it all.
But there ISNT more suffering in the world... That is what people are telling you and you are completely ignoring for some unknown reason and then repeating yourself.
I've given you PLENTY of reasons why the world has improved over the years... and you wonder why im repeating myself?
Technology is at an all time high, medication, vaccines, life span... crime is lower then its ever been there is less war... woman have rights, children have rights... These are things that exist in the world today.
There might be some places in the world that are AS BAD as they were say 100 years ago... But the world, as a whole is ONLY better right now July 2010 then it has ever been.
This is fact dude... fact.
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facts:
(http://http://blog.ssis.edu.vn/terryp/files/2009/10/africa_poverty-383x480.png)
life span?
(http://http://www.anewgreenitude.info/poverty.jpg)
technology?
(http://http://www.linogroup.com/Images/Showkid.jpg)
children rights?
(http://http://www.esiweb.org/balkanexpress/images/albania/poverty.jpg)
commodities?
(http://http://pakistankakhudahafiz.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/india-poverty.jpg)
low crime?
(http://http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/pakistan-poverty1.jpg)
medication?
(http://http://informedvoters.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/iraq-war.jpg)
no war?
Except for the dead US soldiers form Iraq, this is what most people in the world live like. Poverty. And you're telling me the world has never been better for things like technology?
Medication? Many would be happy to have water and food let alone medical care.
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I am going to have to actually break into this topic because there is a lot of weird claims being made by all parties. I would argue the world is just as shitty as it ever was. Better for some, worse for most.
Of course people have improved, but only at the cost of others. While I sit here wondering what variant of a soda pop brand I want to buy and drink while I play with the next videogame I am going to purchase in a month, a father somewhere in the world is working all day long for basic food for his family just to make my next pair of socks I will wear out in probably a week.
Medical treatments and technical knowledge have obviously increased, but so has medical waste and new places to put them after they ruin thousands of people and animals homes. The more civilized of us needing more lumber to make more overpopulated homes, so we just take it without asking.
In SOME places women have better rights than they have ever, but at the same time more are sold practically right after birth into homes with people from all over the world coming to enjoy them in ways that were not possible years ago thanks to our great medical and technical enhancements... The same is true for boys, too.
And age expectancies have not increased, what has mixed up these numbers is that there were much more deaths of babies due to medical issues. Now instead we have medical anomalies barely living, while others slave over them only to waste their lives, or the kids who get fat and useless before puberty while they are pushed through school without actually learning anything and are given checks (from taxes good and honest people pay) to just exist for the rest of their lives. Take someone like CWC for instance. No one could have ever lived like that 500 years ago, he would be forced to do shit with his life and learn to be a person in general. I am sure we have all seen at least an hour worth of stuff related to him, in this case we are further proof that the world is truly not improving at all and most likely never will.
Sorry if I bummed anyone out with this post, but you all should know it by now.
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I'm pretty sure I said it was ONE OF the biggest causes. Which I think it has been. Religious war still goes on today in the form of terrorism.
I disagree completely. I understand religion is a factor in many wars, but not a direct cause. You've mentioned the Crusades and Terrorism so far, which are the most obvious examples, but as I said most of the Crusades (if not all of them) were equally/more motivated by other matters and disguised as Religious causes. Terrorist attacks are sometimes caused by fanaticism, but there are many more factors as well.
And again, nobody likes fundamentalists, fundamentalism =/= religion as a whole. It's an extreme of a belief, and that's dangerous no matter what the belief is, much like Facism or Communism are extreme Right and Left wing politics. It doesn't mean that all politics are bad.
I'm probably rambling, but I hope I've made my point without sounding rude or argumentative!
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I'm pretty sure I said it was ONE OF the biggest causes. Which I think it has been.
It really has not. Take out the Crusades, the Muslim Conquests and the French Wars of Religion and you're already running low on wars started by or religion being a factor in causing it.
The expansion of empires, civil wars, independence and fighting over resources and trade routes are much much more common in history for the cause of armed conflicts.
Religious war still goes on today in the form of terrorism.
It's really a combination of things. Yes in the fact that people are doing it because they are Muslim, no in the fact they are not doing it simply because they are against non-Muslims. The terrorist acts originate due to fighting over land, land Israel now occupies, which they believe belongs to them and the Arabs believe it belongs to them. Further escalation in terrorism occurred due to the Afghan and Iraq wars. America has been an ally of Israel for quite some time and this is where the bad blood comes from, not because they are not Muslim. Due to the Palestine problem, both invasions, most of the Muslim world (Which see each others as family anyway) feel as if there is some serious problems against just them.
Take out this land problem and you'd find fundings cut off for most of these terrorist organizations almost instantly, of course for that to happen it mean Israel would cease to exist, which will not happen, so this will undoubtly continue for the ages.
These acts of terrorism are much more complicated then simply just "We must kill the non-believers!" most of it originates from the problems between Palestine and Israel and foreign policy of other countries. Most are funded by rich Arab who want their land back and people being cohaxed into it, as I said, a combination of things.
Anyway, what about the Tamil Tigers? Or former problems like the Japanese Red Army and IRA? Or Chechnyan Separatists still in action? There are many many other terrorist organizations out there which have nothing to do with religion.
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^ the Google Image search made me lol
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^ the Google Image search made me lol
was it too cheesy? lol
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Yeah, sorry, it was a bit cheezy. lol
Btw, bullfighting is being banned in Catalonia! Big step up for humanity!
+1 Earth better place
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blah blah blah
This is actually retarded... And you wonder why I repeat myself?
Yes there are still plenty of shitty places to live in the world... Note the word 'STILL' ... As in they haven't improved... But some places have, thus the world is better.
There were people staving and dying in africa 100 years ago... and there was also slave trade... Much less rights for woman, 'coloured' people or children the world over.
Hell in half of those pictures I see poor people benifitting from 2010... some of them are wearing western clothes... I see western made items everywhere.
Two of the most dencely populated countries, India and China are going though their own kind of industrial revolution... Which can only be a good thing, there for the world is getting better.
*Waits for you to still miss the point and point out more suffering in the world*
As for the religious argument, there has been more death in the world because of religion then because of athism... I'm sure at least we can agree on THAT.
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I'll reply to you backwards lol
Saying "there has been more death in the world because of religion then because of athism" is like saying there have been more road accidents involving cars than boats. The belief in nothing won't motivate anyone to do anything.
Though I think religion is not a major cause of war, I think it's highly influential. Hitler's rise to power was also largely due to the helping hand of catholic church, which also supported German troops throughout WW2. So I think influential, yes. But not the reason behind.
"*Waits for you to still miss the point and point out more suffering in the world*"
lol I'm not missing the point. It's just my opinion. As Sanus said, people have improved, but only at the cost of others. And in my opinion the fact that each year there are more and more "others" makes the world worse.
You say it's better cause every year there's more good stuff. True. But I believe there is more accentuated increase of the bad stuff. If not only because the population is rising. We can't look into mathematical figures only. More people means more suffering.
This argument will reach no end Sharky lol
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As for the religious argument, there has been more death in the world because of religion then because of athism... I'm sure at least we can agree on THAT.
Atheists find other reasons to kill eachother.
Also, more charities are founded because of religion than atheism. Probably.
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@ Crackdude... I can't be bothered to keep arguing about it. A lot of people have come in said their part and left and you've ignored all of them so your right theres not much point.
Atheists find other reasons to kill eachother.
But not because of atheism... I would like more then anything for there to be some kind of being that magics us all into a magical happy place that no one can see or hear but we all have to just have 'faith' in it existing... But I've read enough about science and the universe to come to my own conclusion that it's just very unlikely... I also believe that life and everything in the universe has no point to it what so ever. And Yet I think I'm just as nice as any religious person. (Nicer then most I've met.)
Also, more charities are founded because of religion than atheism. Probably.
Maybe... maybe... But I have far more respect for people that are good people because they just are. Not because they are scared of going to hell/not going to heaven.
I donated to charity last saturday.
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I think you missed my point, what I was saying is that if someone wants to start a war or kill someone then theres just about always going to be more reason behind it than just a difference of religious beliefs or anything that simple. There are people who will kill the name of religion just the same as people who may kill in the name of money or power or politics or racism or anything. It doesn't mean that religion is causing their killing, since there are far more religious people out there who don't kill anybody. It's not inherintly bad.
If you want examples of atheism involved in violence of death, look at Communist Russia and China. Of course there are more factors than atheism at work, but that's just the same as any of the examples involving religion that you mentioned.
And i think you really have a skewed view of religious people, most aren't constantly thinking in terms of fear or being forced to do good, most are just genuinely good people, partly because they've had the moral teachings of their religion instilled into them.
In any event, I'm cool if you don't follow a religion, I have no problem with that, but I just don't like people to think that religious people are al kooks or that it's a major cause of warfare when it really isn't.