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Off Topic => Everything Else => Topic started by: crackdude on April 12, 2010, 06:57:08 pm

Title: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 12, 2010, 06:57:08 pm
Quote from: "George"
Quote from: "crackdude"
Quote from: "George"
For the record, Jesus gave people terrible advice.
Yeah, cause having a simple life, spreading love and having humility are all terrible things to do  :roll:
Because quiting your job, giving away your stuff is logical advice. Did I even mention no to self defense? Very good.
No to self defense is figurative, not literal.
And quitting your job and giving away your stuff wasn't advice. Jesus walked a lot with the purpose of teaching the people about God. Those who wanted to be most close to him and follow him around had no way of keeping a job and carrying all their stuff around for 3 full years..
In fact, many of Jesus' advice pushed the idea of hard work and providing stuff for your family.

The fact that many religions take liberties in their interpretations of the Bible doesn't change what Jesus actually said. All good stuff me thinks..
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 12, 2010, 07:58:07 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
No to self defense is figurative, not literal.
Actually, it was more or less was literal, because the Roman emperor Constantine wanted it to be that way. That's why Jesus says to never fight back or resist the powers that be.

It's also the reason why Jesus says, "Always pay your taxes to Rome!" The whole religion is founded on indoctrination by an empire that crumbled over 1500 years ago. A lot of the teachings are irrelevant to the modern world. :P
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 12, 2010, 08:06:21 pm
Sounds like you are taking his word and applying your own meaning. This is good, since he gave really horrible advice, someone has to turn it around and make logical sense of it.

Jesus about family?

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." - Matthew 10:21 (http://http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10:21&version=KJV)

Talking about his peaceful nature, he curses a whole city to hell for not "repenting".

"Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. " - Matthew 11:20-11:22 (http://http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11:20-30&version=NIV)

There is also a passage where Jesus approves of beating slaves, meaning he is OK with slavery. I'm not OK with that. Sorry that I'm not as peaceful and loving as Jesus.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12:47 (http://http://bible.cc/luke/12-47.htm)

Shocked that a person like you would even approve of men leaving their children and wife behind to follow other  men and go into some desert. You do know that women could not really work back in those days? Not to mention give away all his stuff their family could have used.

Great teachings.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Sharky on April 12, 2010, 08:24:47 pm
I've no idea what’s going on here but I can tell you flat out that while there is enough evidence that a man named Jesus that many people thought to be the son of god existed.

What he 'said' according to the bible is probably all a load of rubbish, trace the bible far back enough and you'll find that the church basically picked and choose the gospels that best suited what they wanted their followers to believe. There was many more gospels including one written by 'Mary' and all of them paint rather different pictures of events. There were plenty that didn't make the final cut.

To be honest I would take any quotes in the bible as a pinch of salt, chances are over time people have added too it and edited and twisted it in ways that best suits them. They were written after Jesus died anyway...

If you want to believe in Jesus, god etc or any religion for that matter then go for it but I really don't suggest taking anything written in holy books as 'matter of fact'.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 12, 2010, 09:33:16 pm
Quote from: "George"
There is also a passage where Jesus approves of beating slaves, meaning he is OK with slavery. I'm not OK with that. Sorry that I'm not as peaceful and loving as Jesus.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12:47 (http://http://bible.cc/luke/12-47.htm)
Lol, the Biblical passages on slavery were used by anti-abolitionists in the United States to try and sway votes in favor of keeping slavery.

Again, it shows how the Bible is not relevant to the modern world.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 13, 2010, 02:43:34 am
Quote from: "Sharky"
I've no idea what’s going on here but I can tell you flat out that while there is enough evidence that a man named Jesus that many people thought to be the son of god existed.

What he 'said' according to the bible is probably all a load of rubbish, trace the bible far back enough and you'll find that the church basically picked and choose the gospels that best suited what they wanted their followers to believe. There was many more gospels including one written by 'Mary' and all of them paint rather different pictures of events. There were plenty that didn't make the final cut.

To be honest I would take any quotes in the bible as a pinch of salt, chances are over time people have added too it and edited and twisted it in ways that best suits them. They were written after Jesus died anyway...

If you want to believe in Jesus, god etc or any religion for that matter then go for it but I really don't suggest taking anything written in holy books as 'matter of fact'.
There is also evidence that most of the bible is stories from older myths, even the story of Jesus himself. There is the Persian myth of Mithra that a lot of people point to, is a lot like Jesus himself. You can read that here (http://http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html).

There are also a lot of dates and celebrations that Christianity took from Pagan culture. It is obviously the reason this is done is because converting followers to your 'rules' and 'religion' is easier if you make it easily adaptable. Pagans could still throw your parties on the day they used to, just had to kneel before a cross.

In the end of the day, Christianity was established to control. Look at the Catholic church, molesting children; then the Vatican protects the molesters? Living in big palaces? What happen to giving away belongings to follow Christ? Does this apply to only regular people?

Religion obviously makes a ton of money and controls people. That is why the Vatican used to rule everything back in the day, because people believed they were sent by God.

A lot of people think that most of what is in the bible is 'true', but not 100% accurate. The reason why they believe most is true is because there are multiple sources that 'document' the last days of Jesus Christ and they all match up. Of course, they could all be in on it.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: max_cady on April 13, 2010, 04:31:29 am
-Sigh-

It's always fun to see people attacking a religion that they know full well that will not fight back. No matter how many horrible things can be said about them.

Take Nero for example... Since people still think they feel so original for blaming Christians on the whole problems of the world.

That being said, I think the church is perhaps the most efficiently run provider of services and it's amazing considering it's all supported by donations. In the roman catholic church, you only make a donation if you want to. You are not obligated(unlike other fraudulent religions aka enviromentalism) to give anything and they won't shut you down for showing up in church to hear a sermon.

And personally, I don't think Christianity controls people, it helps steer in the right direction, the Bible itself is shock full of stories that can apply to real life, because morality is the same, no matter what century you're in,heck, read Aesop's Fables.

In short, Christ asks us to better people, you want control you should see how enviromentalism works, because that has social marxism written all over it.


Update: Just to be clear, I don't wanna pick a fight, because I know that the easiest way to get into a fight with someone is to talk politics and/or religion.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Sega Uranus on April 13, 2010, 04:52:40 am
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was entirely based on looking for a cup Jesus drank out of. If it does not mean he is important that Dr Jones had a whole movie about that, then I do not know what is! [/joke in poor taste]

Seriously though, I think Ryan said it best. Of course not everything written in whichever book of choice is the same as it was hundreds of years ago, how would we even be able to find out when there could have been cover-ups a thousand years ago that only ten people knew of at the time?

That does not make all religions a waste of time or anything like that, of course not! Believing in anything, whether it be an omnipresence, your friends, family, or even just yourself will bring you happiness. Loving others around you will bring them happiness, and this is what I think the goal of any religion is in the end. Really, isn't that all that matters?
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 13, 2010, 06:58:25 am
Honestly, nobody is going to get 'Converted' by these arguments. People that don't like Religion/Christianity for whatever reasons aren't going to change their minds and vica-versa.

I had a bunch of counter-points to George's arguments in particular, but I've deleted what I had, because I realised it would be a pointless waste of my time and George's. I've heard so many arguments for and against already (and so has everyone here probably) and seen people going back and forth like this before. It just ends up going in a big circle and usually ends with the thread locked/deleted.

Frankly I think this thread shouldn't have even been made and the argument should have been dropped in the Sonic 4 thread.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 13, 2010, 08:30:18 am
I always see people reading the Bible on the train, and I think to myself "They could be watching reruns of The Next Generation or be playing Monkey Island Special Edition..."
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Emmett The Crab on April 13, 2010, 09:38:19 am
For the most part, I agree with George.  The story of the flood was borrowed from the Sumerians by the Hebrews.  It is much older than the Bible.  It is part of the story of the Epic of Gilgamesh.  When I was an English teacher, I got in trouble for teaching The Epic of Gilgamesh as a supplement to our mythology unit.  

Max Cady:  Your argument got weird when you kept mentioning environmentalism, which is a political movement not a religion that, as far as I know, has not forced anyone to pay money.  I don't know anything about politics in Portugal, but from where I'm sitting that's a really strange comparison.  I think The Jesus of the Bible would want us to take care of the Earth, and wanted us to take care of the poor (socialism).
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: max_cady on April 13, 2010, 11:10:52 am
You'd be surprised how much enviromentalism borrows heavily from the judeo-christian ideology.

From it's romantic view of nature which is similar to the garden of even but without humans, their worship of Earth as a deity, the occasional reference to Al Gore as an Oracle and even carbon credits and proposed CO2 taxes which is quite similar to how the church operated with something called a sin tax.

The comparison between the two, however, ends when enviromentalism uses thuggish tactics towards skeptics(granted that there was the inquisition, but this is the 21st century, not the dak ages), guilts people and scares the hell out of them with proficies of forthcoming doom(there is armaggedon, but once again, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages).

The church is not socialist, it is a private entity that provides charitable services, they operate with a tax exemption clause that is applied to all religions.

"Helping the poor" is generally Socialism's de facto excuse to do anything but...

But I'm getting off-topic...

One staggering hipocrisy that I would lke to point out is how some in Portugal like to complain about religion, but some reason, are not against religious holidays, which is curious considering that about 80% of all portuguese holidays are religious ones.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Aki-at on April 13, 2010, 11:41:48 am
You know the forum is having a really terribly slow and painfully dry news day when we resort to discussing religion.

Also lol everyone knows his name was really Isa.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 13, 2010, 12:03:27 pm
This turned into a cool debate lol
Hate to see some quotes taken out of context.
For example, the reason why Jesus didn't try to resist the authorities was because there ware prophecies to fulfill. It was PLANNED that Jesus would die that way.

Another example of things taken out of context was the quotation of texts that actually were prophecies of bad days to come (modern age really) and not advice.

I know I'm not contributing a whole lot to the conversation, but I just feel like letting out my opinion :)

The Bible is a useful guide. But reading it cover-to-cover won't teach you a lot much and you won't understand. You really need some study and companion books or something.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 13, 2010, 12:04:20 pm
Professor Henry Jones: But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an "I".
Indiana Jones: J-...
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 13, 2010, 12:45:55 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
You'd be surprised how much enviromentalism borrows heavily from the judeo-christian ideology.

From it's romantic view of nature which is similar to the garden of even but without humans, their worship of Earth as a deity, the occasional reference to Al Gore as an Oracle and even carbon credits and proposed CO2 taxes which is quite similar to how the church operated with something called a sin tax.
LMAO, why hello, frothing far right conservative. :lol:

I myself am a pro-environmentalist, but that's primarily because I don't have my head stuck up my ass. As such, I don't believe in the earth being a deity or Al Gore being some kind of Oracle. There are pro-environmentalists in nearly every country, you know, and not all of them pay as much attention to Al Gore as the United States does.

I wouldn't mind a CO2 tax. However, it wouldn't be to punish a "sin" like the evil and manipulative leaders of Christianity would do. Instead, I'd support a tax so as to encourage corporations to clean up their emissions. Those guys don't understand anything other than money, I'm afraid.

Quote
The comparison between the two, however, ends when enviromentalism uses thuggish tactics towards skeptics(granted that there was the inquisition, but this is the 21st century, not the dak ages), guilts people and scares the hell out of them with proficies of forthcoming doom(there is armaggedon, but once again, this is the 21st century, not the dark ages).
Um, no, you're ignorant if you believe that Christianity is not guilty of fear-mongering to this very day. Go watch Fox News or Focus on the Family and you'll see it all the time.

Or better yet, go to Jack Chick's website and read some of his totally insane comics.

Quote
"Helping the poor" is generally Socialism's de facto excuse to do anything but...
Funny enough, the Jesus that anti-welfare proponents love is not Jesus of Nazareth, it's Supply-Side Jesus:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/0 ... anken.html (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html)

That comic is a great read. ^_^
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: max_cady on April 13, 2010, 06:41:47 pm
Yes, corporations are souless, profit-driven corporations that rape the delicate earth. Yes, modernization and industrialization is destroying the delicate balance of nature. How evil, greedy, selfish, yada yada yada...

You're right, that's not a simple-minded, ignorant and uninformed mindest, not in the slightest.

Quote
There are pro-environmentalists in nearly every country, you know, and not all of them pay as much attention to Al Gore as the United States does.

Surprisingly nobody (http://http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/25/pew-poll-global-warming-dead-last-down-from-last-year/) seems to pay much attention to Al Gore or any major enviromental advocates say in the United States, for that matter.

Quote
um, no, you're ignorant if you believe that Christianity is not guilty of fear-mongering to this very day. Go watch Fox News or Focus on the Family and you'll see it all the time.

Ah, but you don't, in any way, shape or form, deny that enviromentalism also resorts to bullying, fear-mongering, uses colonial guilt tactics to get their points across?

Watch Penn & Teller's BS instead.

In that case, they are both bad.

Man, I am so bored...


Update: But, hey, don't get me wrong, I am not taking sides on this matter. Whoever prays in church and whoever turns off the lights for a full hour, to each his own.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 13, 2010, 09:25:32 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
Yes, corporations are souless, profit-driven corporations
Redundancy is redundant.

Quote
You're right, that's not a simple-minded, ignorant and uninformed mindest, not in the slightest.
Well, that might be true, except for the clear fact that you're trying to put words into my mouth.

The things you said were not the things that I said. Hooray for typical conservative bullshit tactics! =P

Quote
Ah, but you don't, in any way, shape or form, deny that enviromentalism also resorts to bullying, fear-mongering, uses colonial guilt tactics to get their points across?
Some do, but not all. The same goes for Christians.

However, if I had to choose between listening to the global consensus of the scientific community or listening to mentally deficient conservative opinion writers such as Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity, then I'll listen to the scientists.

That's what rationally thinking people do.

Quote
Update: But, hey, don't get me wrong, I am not taking sides on this matter.
Lmao, says the guy who defended Christianity, then turned right around and made completely insane generalizations about anyone who's ever cared about the environment.

Oh yes, such a moderate. :lol:
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 14, 2010, 06:20:06 pm
So this guy is in a bar getting absolutely plastered one night, when the bartender has finally had enough of him and throws him out onto the street.

The drunken man starts stumbling around and comes across two Priests walking by.
"I'm Jesus!" Shouts the drunk man. One of the Priests looks at him and says
"No you aren't"
"Yes I am" He replies, "Look, I'll prove it to you!"
The Priests look at eachother and decide to follow the man, they had to see this.

The drunk walks back to the bar and kicks open the front door and stumbles in. The bartender takes one look at him and yells
"Jesus Christ, you're back already!?"
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: max_cady on April 14, 2010, 06:30:52 pm
I also liked the part where The Terminator was sent back in time to protect Him.
[youtube:9knpxrej]PFrufPxjwX0[/youtube:9knpxrej]
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 17, 2010, 04:11:31 am
That Jesus Terminator sketch was the first one I ever say from MadTV.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Sega Stylista on April 22, 2010, 02:32:39 pm
Jesus is a composite of greco, roman, and egyptian mythical elements imposed on judaic theology and adapted to the western world.

Jesus never lived. There is absolutely nothing historical about the gospel.  Jesus is a work of literature unlike his "cousin" John the baptizer who was a real historical person.

Jesus is gay and will get you no where in life.

I do believe in a eternal creator.

Christianity is false and is rooted in collectivism and socialism as it was the lower class scum rejects of ancient jewish society that began the movement.

Biblical literalism=idiocy

The moral truth of a story is what counts and not the literary context it occurs in. The basis of enlightenment is a principled conception of morality and not a mythical, emotional, humanistic, or personal one.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 22, 2010, 03:48:42 pm
There is more proof of the existence of Jesus than the existence of Aristotle. Discuss.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 22, 2010, 05:07:23 pm
You'd think the son of God would have been in more history stuff at the time, especially if he feed 100's of people with fish, walked on water and was crucified and resurrected.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 22, 2010, 06:06:05 pm
I don't get why everyone talks about how him walking on water would have made everyone impressed. Only his apostles saw him do that.

But anyway, those records were presumably destroyed when Nero burned up Rome and blamed Christians for it, I think.

The accuracy of the Bible on all of it's descriptions and prophecies is what makes it really stand out. That includes historical accuracy as well.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 22, 2010, 06:42:19 pm
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Jesus is gay and will get you no where in life.

I don't mind you expressing your beliefs, but that is incredibly offensive. Please find a more appropriate way to voice your beliefs.

As for there being little to no proof of Jesus existing, I'm pretty sure there are a number of non-biblical/gospel texts that reference him. Don't forget all the Apocrypha that Sharky mentioned as well. I think it's unlikely that everything written about him was a set-up or a lie.

Anyway...
On the day of Jesus' crucifixtion he was on the cross on top of the mountain, and Peter was in the crowd looking on. Jesus cried out 'Peter!' and then Peter started running towards him to speak to him.
He fell over into the mud but kept hearing Jesus say 'Peter!' so he got up and kept going. The Roman Guards shoved him down and kicked him, but he heard his name called again and kept running.

Finally he reached the cross, exhausted.
"What is it? What do you need?"
"Peter, I can see your house from here!"
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 22, 2010, 07:02:55 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Anyway...
On the day of Jesus' crucifixtion he was on the cross on top of the mountain, and Peter was in the crowd looking on. Jesus cried out 'Peter!' and then Peter started running towards him to speak to him.
He fell over into the mud but kept hearing Jesus say 'Peter!' so he got up and kept going. The Roman Guards shoved him down and kicked him, but he heard his name called again and kept running.

Finally he reached the cross, exhausted.
"What is it? What do you need?"
"Peter, I can see your house from here!"
ahaha I love these jokes.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: MadeManG74 on April 22, 2010, 07:10:27 pm
Just trying to lighten the mood a bit, I don't want this to get too heated :p
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 22, 2010, 07:34:49 pm
Quote from: "crackdude"
I don't get why everyone talks about how him walking on water would have made everyone impressed. Only his apostles saw him do that.

But anyway, those records were presumably destroyed when Nero burned up Rome and blamed Christians for it, I think.

The accuracy of the Bible on all of it's descriptions and prophecies is what makes it really stand out. That includes historical accuracy as well.
Most of the historical accuracies (not many btw) are taken from earlier Pagan stories. So, now you believe in Odin and Zeus as well?
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 22, 2010, 08:58:10 pm
Anybody catch South Park 's episode "201"? Jesus was (fictionally portrayed as) a dirty man. Shame *bleep* didn't get face time.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 22, 2010, 09:24:21 pm
I have not seen it. Might download it, everyone is chattering about it.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 22, 2010, 09:26:20 pm
Check allsp.com for it, as the official site doesn't have it due to censorship problems.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: George on April 22, 2010, 09:40:08 pm
Is it the one about Kyle now having friends? It says 201 on DiSH. I see nothing offensive so far.

(Jesus is a Jew)
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: fluffymoochicken on April 22, 2010, 09:55:34 pm
Quote from: "Sega Stylista"
Jesus is gay
Hot.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Sega Stylista on April 23, 2010, 12:29:45 am
Jesus = Casual
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Barry the Nomad on April 23, 2010, 07:51:50 am
201 featured the truth of Eric's father and Tom Cruise with Sea Man on his back.
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: crackdude on April 23, 2010, 08:12:04 am
Quote from: "George"
Most of the historical accuracies (not many btw) are taken from earlier Pagan stories. So, now you believe in Odin and Zeus as well?
Care to explain what you're talking about? lol
Title: Re: Jesus
Post by: Berto on October 26, 2017, 11:20:12 pm
(http://fs1.directupload.net/images/171027/86aoa5bq.jpg)