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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Shun-Di on July 07, 2017, 01:45:03 pm

Title: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 07, 2017, 01:45:03 pm
No really, I can't classify it as Metal as it does not ROCK \m/, it STANKS. 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: CrazyT on July 09, 2017, 06:16:26 am
Everything bad about the franchise that had been filtered out has come back at full force in this game HAHAHA SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Happy Cat on July 09, 2017, 09:02:51 am
There is a sound column where Ohtani comments on the music he made for Sonic Forces

Quote
New: Vocal will be on every music of Avatar’s stages!

New: Also, multiple singers, male and female, are participating!

 On contrary to the rocky band sound of Modern Sonic’s stage music, the Avatar’s stage music has Drum’n Bass / EDM-based, dance music-like programmed sounds as its concept. With this, coolness and euphoria that are characteristic to dance music, which is different from live band sounds, can be expressed.

 Since it is a customizable character, I thought a music that is structured by combining different parts would fit, and so I decided on this direction. Vocal part is not a full chorus, but adds in as fragments.

 The impression you have on the music I would create for ‘Sonic series’ might be a fresh and high-speed pop or rock, for example ‘Endless Possibility’ or ‘Rooftop Run’. Since I created lots of such music in the last work ‘Sonic Runners’ too, so it’s no wonder.

 However, I love Techno / House / Hip Hop / Drum’n Bass / Dubstep / EDM and Dance music, and I had been intensively creating such sounds for a very long time. I think all of the demo tapes I submit to SEGA as an assignment for new graduates employment included such music… Meaning, the sound track this time includes everything in my drawer!

 On June 7th, stage music of ‘Park Avenue’ was revealed.

For the promotion of this game, we decided to release some of the music works alone beforehand. I got many reactions on Twitter from both Japanese and overseas fans. Thank you very much.

 The Avatar is a resistance member who rose up from the general citizen, so this character is scared of going to a fight. Even then, one summons up own courage and stands up against the enemy – the lyrics describes such mind, and at the same time pushes the player’s back to cheer up.

Quote
[Stage music]

The concept of stage music is different for each game. For example in ‘Sonic Lost World’, I concentrated on expressing the motives of background (grass field, desert, ocean, snow and so on) and the playful rhythm with the music. A light and casual music, you could say.

 On the other hand, for ‘Sonic Forces’ I am composing while having the story’s flow and the characters’ minds in my thought. Overall, the music is finalized in heroic and dramatic, heavy and large-scaled tone.
Which music will be reveled in which form as next? I will make you enjoy the time until game release! *grin*
 See you then!

https://sonicjpnews.tumblr.com/post/162177401191/20170623-tomoya-ohtanis-sound-column

this was released in june though, before fist bump got revealed,

here is recent reactions to fist bump from people working on the game:

(http://i.imgur.com/1RXXzA7.png)
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: OriginalName on July 09, 2017, 11:00:29 am
Everything bad about the franchise that had been filtered out has come back at full force in this game HAHAHA SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!

Haha, really though, that's a perfect way of phrasing it. I'm honestly shocked by how positive the feedback has been so far.

I'll be honest though, I don't really think that the vocals and lyrics are any worse than anything else we've been getting since the Sonic Adventure days; it would just sound better without them. Overall it doesn't bother me in and of itself, it's just very... status quo for the series, and I can't see that as a good thing.

I just think that the whole Japanese business style of promoting tenure over track record has turned Sonic Team into a complete mess. I have a ton of respect for the people in the game industry because it's really tough to survive in that world, but I just don't see how Takashi Iizuka, a guy who literally did not produce/direct a single above-average reviewed game for nearly an entire decade (http://www.metacritic.com/person/takashi-iizuka (http://www.metacritic.com/person/takashi-iizuka)), even kept his job for this long. It's a development team that's been widely known almost above all else for their poor decision-making skills for a long, long time, but there seem to be no meaningful repercussions for it within the company.

They seem to have made the two games that restored everyone's faith in them almost begrudgingly, and only when pretty much the entire industry and public outside the walls of their offices turned on them. I can't help but think that their hearts were never really in the style of those well-received games. They can't keep doing this weird time-warp plot half-measure to include the Classic Sonic forever, but I think that's why they've handled it this way -- because they want to keep that at a distance. To them that's the "other" Sonic, in a word.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Tad on July 09, 2017, 11:47:07 am
It'll be interesting to see what happens when Mania sells or turns out better than Forces. Can't imagine a big project like that falling to a smaller one from fans will go down well at SoJ. Mind you, Sega seem to lack that person who thinks things through before putting it out.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 09, 2017, 03:13:46 pm
1, They advertised Forces would be darker, and that was bullcrap.  It's just as childish as other modern games.  2, the music lacks spirit, it's just upbeat and generic, i can't even call it hipster music.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Tad on July 09, 2017, 03:59:55 pm
As I said in the other thread, I don't think the music is bad, but they need to lose the vocals. My real concern is in the gameplay and what seems to be Sonic Team yet again "mixing it up".

Modern Sonic

The controls are apparently much tighter and the boost has been slowed down which is great, but from that level we've seen, I didn't see any alternative paths at all. This is just one level so it's probably nothing to be fair.

Classic Sonic

Why? He has his own game coming out and modern Sonic tends to have 2.5D sections anyway. Seems pointless.

Avatar

Seems like you can customise quite a lot, but I wonder to what extent will any of it really matter. It's levels seem to a mix of classic and modern, but at a much slower pace.


Just my view, but I'd much prefer it if they just had modern Sonic and instead of avatar/classic, have mini stages or extras which have you doing missions with Sonic's friend. That way, they're there if people want them, but they're not forced. Stuff like:

Espio = Get round security using his ninja skills and his camouflage ability.
Tails = Crack Robotnik's security systems in puzzle like games
Knuckles = Fight your way through the streets to create safe zones
Vector = Maybe a underwater mission?
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 12:07:50 am
As I said in the other thread, I don't think the music is bad, but they need to lose the vocals. My real concern is in the gameplay and what seems to be Sonic Team yet again "mixing it up".

Modern Sonic

The controls are apparently much tighter and the boost has been slowed down which is great, but from that level we've seen, I didn't see any alternative paths at all. This is just one level so it's probably nothing to be fair.

Classic Sonic

Why? He has his own game coming out and modern Sonic tends to have 2.5D sections anyway. Seems pointless.

Avatar

Seems like you can customise quite a lot, but I wonder to what extent will any of it really matter. It's levels seem to a mix of classic and modern, but at a much slower pace.


Just my view, but I'd much prefer it if they just had modern Sonic and instead of avatar/classic, have mini stages or extras which have you doing missions with Sonic's friend. That way, they're there if people want them, but they're not forced. Stuff like:

Espio = Get round security using his ninja skills and his camouflage ability.
Tails = Crack Robotnik's security systems in puzzle like games
Knuckles = Fight your way through the streets to create safe zones
Vector = Maybe a underwater mission?


I agree.  Have the side characters for side missions.  I mean if we're copying Generations, go all out but make it worth playing.  Make it fun.  Also I agree that Modern should have his own game, since Mania is 100% perfect classic Sonic.  Putting classic Sonic in Forces is like Generations but then did Generations do it to sell more copies?  Of course it did.  It doubled as an anniversary celebration since it went through all his old games.  But why are we doing all that again?  Why are we getting the same zones in both games?  And why is it so dang taboo to play as other characters in the Sonic universe?  It means having to program them.  Just copying Generations is quicker and easier.  Sega flat out didn't give a flying fox.  Mania just so happened to happen at the same time.  It was complete coincidence I guess.  That means Sega was originally just gonna give us the same old crap.  They can't do this a third time that's for sure.  They can't be that stupid.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Tad on July 10, 2017, 12:40:37 am
I wouldn't put it past them. Sega seems to lack that person who thinks things though before doing it and Sonic Team seem to lack direction. I'm not a fan of Mario games as they tend to play it too safe with every game and it's become rather dull, but Sonic Team do the complete opposite in that. They just seem to think up random ideas and throw them out there.

If Mania does well, I really hope this means they'll give that team more freedom and even let them make a 3D Sonic game instead.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Centrale on July 10, 2017, 09:12:34 am
1, They advertised Forces would be darker, and that was bullcrap.  It's just as childish as other modern games.

Well, first of all... Sonic is a series that's intended for children. I know this might come as a shock to all of the adults who insist on trying to evaluate it as entertainment for adults. The thing is, it's not for adults. It's for kids. Sonic is a series for kids. If adults want to play Sonic games, that's cool. But adult notions of how "dark" and "mature" Sonic should be are irrelevant. It's designed to be fun for kids. That's just the way it is and how it always has been. How dark and gritty do you think a game about a blue hedgehog who runs faster than anyone else in the world can possibly be?

Secondly... to me, a grown man with a very young child who likes Sonic, Sonic Forces actually *is* too dark and scary. The trailer looks like an apocalyptic nightmare world. That would be too upsetting for my 5-year-old. So, a big thank you to all you twisted up manchildren who can't let go of Sonic and think it should be as "mature" (read: cynical) as you have become. Sonic Team isn't ruining Sonic but its deranged fanbase is.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 10, 2017, 12:10:50 pm
Depends on the 5 year old, but it might actually help some kids overcome their fears.
When I was a kid I was frightened by Nights on the Saturn, but it fascinated me and helped me overcome my fears.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:12:40 pm
Well, first of all... Sonic is a series that's intended for children. I know this might come as a shock to all of the adults who insist on trying to evaluate it as entertainment for adults. The thing is, it's not for adults. It's for kids. Sonic is a series for kids. If adults want to play Sonic games, that's cool. But adult notions of how "dark" and "mature" Sonic should be are irrelevant. It's designed to be fun for kids. That's just the way it is and how it always has been. How dark and gritty do you think a game about a blue hedgehog who runs faster than anyone else in the world can possibly be?

Secondly... to me, a grown man with a very young child who likes Sonic, Sonic Forces actually *is* too dark and scary. The trailer looks like an apocalyptic nightmare world. That would be too upsetting for my 5-year-old. So, a big thank you to all you twisted up manchildren who can't let go of Sonic and think it should be as "mature" (read: cynical) as you have become. Sonic Team isn't ruining Sonic but its deranged fanbase is.


Oh boy here we go, the whole "it's for kids" bullcrap.  Sonic was never supposed to target toddlers.  It was the older kid and teen demographic.  Sonic 06 and Shadow The Hedgehog weren't bad games because they were dark, they were bad because they were poorly written and buggy as hell.  The genesis games and Adventure games got it right in terms of tone and atmosphere.  Modern Sonic games since Generations and Colors has been outright insulting to both kids and adults alike, and don't even get me started on Sonic Boom.  Fuck that mindset.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Centrale on July 10, 2017, 07:16:42 pm

Oh boy here we go, the whole "it's for kids" bullcrap.  Sonic was never supposed to target toddlers.  It was the older kid and teen demographic.  Sonic 06 and Shadow The Hedgehog weren't bad games because they were dark, they were bad because they were poorly written and buggy as hell.  The genesis games and Adventure games got it right in terms of tone and atmosphere.  Modern Sonic games since Generations and Colors has been outright insulting to both kids and adults alike, and don't even get me started on Sonic Boom.  Fuck that mindset.

Fuck that mindset, huh? I can accept that it's a series for older kids and teens. Still doesn't explain the 20, 30 and 40-somethings who have some kind of braincramp that their ideas of what the series "should" be are irrelevant. Of course Sega will never say it in such stark terms. Look at their actions and see how relevant they find the critiques from the toxic echo chamber of internet commenters.

How old are you, bro? You fit anywhere into the target audience? How "dark" do you think the series can seriously be?
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:40:31 pm
Fuck that mindset, huh? I can accept that it's a series for older kids and teens. Still doesn't explain the 20, 30 and 40-somethings who have some kind of braincramp that their ideas of what the series "should" be are irrelevant. Of course Sega will never say it in such stark terms. Look at their actions and see how relevant they find the critiques from the toxic echo chamber of internet commenters.

How old are you, bro? You fit anywhere into the target audience? How "dark" do you think the series can seriously be?

Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank.  You wouldn't want those messed with.  why is it ok to do that to Sonic??
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:42:42 pm
When did games targeted at teens mean going full retard?  Music in Sonic used to be cool too.  Now it sounds lame.  Fist Bump is lame.  Sonic colors had a lame theme too.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:44:08 pm
Don't even get me started on the Sonic Heroes theme song.  That was the beginning of the end for Sonic being taken seriously at all, Shadow and 06 more or less finished him off.  Then Modern Sonic tried to bring him back from the dead and failed.  He was a mindless zombie by then.  Mania is like Sonic from an alternate universe where Sonic didn't go off the deep end.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:46:39 pm
I hate how people complained about the comics forcing them to take anything considered emotional or dramatic too.  not to mention the whiney little Amy fans who ruined Sonic's relationship with Sally.  The comics gave older fans what they wanted, there was no reason to strip all that away because it didn't follow the childish cannon of the modern games.  Also the Sonic X fans assumed Sonic should be childish as they replaced the older fans allowing Sega to make Sonic more and more childish without question or criticism.  Anytime someone did criticize it, they would just say, "Sonic is for children, it isn't meant to be edgy.  lolz Shadow The hedgehog and Sonic 06"
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:48:28 pm
AND IZUKA HAS NO CLUE HOW SONIC IS APPEALING TO THE WEST.  HE FUCKED IT ALL UP AND IT DIDN'T EVEN MAKE IT APPEALING TO JAPAN!   HE IS THE MOST IGNORANT PERSON AT SEGA AND NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO QUESTION HIM.  GAMES ARE POORLY WRITTEN AND SHOVED OUT THE DOOR UNFINISHED.  IF IT WASN'T FOR FAN GAME MAKERS, THE REAL FANS WHO REMEMBER WHEN SONIC WAS COOL, SONIC WOULD BE DEAD.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:52:12 pm
Pontac and Graf are bad writers too.  I'm sick of bad jokes being excused because "it's for kids"  Kids are not that damn stupid, autistic or not!  I'm so damn sick of it.  I put up with this year after year, game after game, fanboy after fanboy.  >:(  IF SEGA DOESN'T FIX MODERN SONIC, I'M QUITTING THE SERIES.  FORCES ALREADY LOOKS SHITTY.  FUCK IZUKA. 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:55:48 pm
Any time a "fan" says that Sonic should be childish (even the music... grrrr) they completely overlook all the cool Sonic games and Sonic music.  Like George and Barry said, get some other genres of music in there.  The fake guitar rock music sucks.  Bad enough Sonic Colors had whiteboy autotune and Sonic Heroes makes my ears bleed.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 07:58:06 pm
Remember Sonic Adventure 1 and 2?  Sonic 1?  Sonic 2?  Sonic 3 and Knuckles?  Sonic CD?  Sonic 3D Blast? (say what you will about older games that are considered bad, they had good music).

Sonic 4 had bad music and bad gameplay.  Both episodes were lame.  I hate the fact it's called Sonic 4.  It's why I thank god every day Sonic Mania exists just to bleach that shitty game from our minds and regain Sonic's old respect and cool factor.  Excellent music to boot.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Centrale on July 10, 2017, 08:29:37 pm
It's okay, man. It's really not that big of a deal. Sonic is just supposed to be a fun video game. If you aren't liking it anymore you can let it go.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 08:48:40 pm
It's okay, man. It's really not that big of a deal. Sonic is just supposed to be a fun video game. If you aren't liking it anymore you can let it go.

This isn't ok though.  This casual mindset and low standards for Sonic from fans who aren't even old enough to remember when Sonic was actually cool...  It's gone on for so long.  If Sega is going to make a new image for themselves, they've gotta go all the way, Sonic and non Sonic games need to be high standard quality, and that goes beyond just pretty graphics on modern consoles.  Pretty graphics will not save a bad game.  It may fool some idiots, but real gamers will complain about the things that are wrong with it.  The problem is Modern Sonic has a very rabbid fanbase, worse than MLP or SU.  (In most cases, the same fans)  I want Sega to return to making good games and good sequels.  Sonic should not be the exception, especially since he is the mascot of the fucking company.  It really shows their priorities or lack there of.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Centrale on July 10, 2017, 09:51:39 pm
Maybe so, but with all due respect, Sega can't afford to listen to fans like yourself. You just posted an entire page of incomprehensible ranting. And there are thousands more like you, all with opposing viewpoints yet at the same time all convinced that they're the ones who are right. The smartest thing Sega can do is ignore that kind of rabid "fandom" (if it can even be called that anymore) and just forge ahead with their own vision. Which in reality is what they seem to be doing. They chose an intelligent route with the custom character option in Sonic Forces, as that taps into a healthy, fun and often funny part of the fan community. But the angry-man-who-has-outgrown-Sonic demographic should rightfully just be ignored.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 10, 2017, 11:22:56 pm
Maybe so, but with all due respect, Sega can't afford to listen to fans like yourself. You just posted an entire page of incomprehensible ranting. And there are thousands more like you, all with opposing viewpoints yet at the same time all convinced that they're the ones who are right. The smartest thing Sega can do is ignore that kind of rabid "fandom" (if it can even be called that anymore) and just forge ahead with their own vision. Which in reality is what they seem to be doing. They chose an intelligent route with the custom character option in Sonic Forces, as that taps into a healthy, fun and often funny part of the fan community. But the angry-man-who-has-outgrown-Sonic demographic should rightfully just be ignored.

Sega has bred casuals who just shut their brains off.  >:(
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: OriginalName on July 11, 2017, 08:20:50 am
Nah man, Centrale's got a good point. I don't know if it's fair to characterize dissenters as just being in denial about having outgrown the series either, but I think you guys are hitting on an important question for video game fans...

Is it better to actively complain about a series going in a direction that you disagree with, or should you "check your privilege" to borrow a phrase and let the creators take the path they choose. Sonic has reached a point where the fanbase has become so fragmented that the team can ignore a segment and still have a fanbase left over.

For reasons that escape me and Shun-Di as well, this series continues to sell and, if you look at the Sonic Forces media out there it seems to be getting good response. To me, when I see the media surrounding this game, it seems like the confirmation of every joke any detractor ever sneered about the franchise as I waited for the developers to prove them wrong. I'll be honest, I'm one of the people who gave up on the series all the way back at Sonic Adventure 2. I honestly didn't like that game despite some of its strengths (which came as a shock since I'd LOVED the series up to that point), and I was only 11, so I can't say that I'd outgrown it. From there I waited for a game to appeal to me, and that honestly didn't happen until Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Lost World (an awkward game, but I appreciated it). Prior to that, the games didn't look good to me and their scores agreed.

I'm excited about Sonic Mania, but a new Sonic game doesn't HAVE to be a Genesis throwback. I guess I'm just jealous of Nintendo fans in a way... Metroid, F-Zero, and Kid Icarus fans notwithstanding. When changes are made to the Mario and Zelda formula, they're logical and in keeping with the identities of those series. Now, I don't expect Sega to be like that with every series they've made -- they were always these awesome pop-culture junkie punks who churned out ideas as fast as they could, and I loved them for that. But Sonic (alongside maybe Phantasy Star, Virtua Fighter, NiGHTS, and Sakura Taisen over in Japan) is a series that deserves that Mario/Zelda kind of treatment.

How often have Mario/Zelda fans looked at the next installment and asked "what am I even looking at?" Once a piece during the GameCube years? How many of those fans "outgrew" the games?

Outgrowing or changing times get cited a lot when it comes to Sonic, but I honestly think that the character at its inception was as timeless as Mickey Mouse, Hello Kitty, Superman... whether the score of Sonic Forces is 5/10 or 8.5/10, nothing about it seems "timeless" to me. The best explanation I could come up with is that no one who was present at the character's inception is involved anymore.

Now, are my expectations too high? Sure! But the people who conceived the franchise did exactly the same thing, and that's what lead to some of the best games of all time; games that really have not aged.

I don't know -- you're absolutely right, ranting and raving doesn't help a thing, but at the same time, I do disagree with the notion that I've "outgrown" Sonic. I've recently played some childish games like Super Mario Galaxy, PaRappa the Rapper, Napple Tale, and We Love Katamari for the first time, and went "yeah, these is timeless. What a great game." I'd like to be able to say the same for Sonic, and I happen to think that the answers to getting back to that point lie in its roots, but honestly, (I swear I'm not saying this to be snotty) what the hell do I know?
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 11, 2017, 08:33:47 am
I agree and disagree with all of you. Guess that makes us all individuals with an opinion.

I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with modern Sonic gameplay, so whether we like the games or not comes down to our own expectations and preferences.
It's OK that a game isn't to your taste. That doesn't make it bad.
And if the games are selling a lot, it means at least a large group of people enjoy the prospects of playing them.

In 50 years time will any of this matter? no.
As long as people enjoy the franchise, there is no reason for the creator to follow anything but whatever they want, and direct it toward whomever they want. It's their game, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Complaining only makes you look dumb.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: OriginalName on July 11, 2017, 08:39:31 am
Respectfully, I think it's okay to criticize something in an online forum as long as you keep yourself in check. It's a Sega forum, y'know? I feel like expressing your feelings about a Sega franchise is acceptable so long as you don't lose your mind over it.

But yeah, I've spoken with my dollars for many years. I guess the only reason why it seems somewhat validated to complain is because for a couple of years there it did seem like the creators started listening, and made better-received games for it.

But you're right: if their hearts aren't in it, then I and people like me go back to not buying it. Simple as.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 11, 2017, 11:35:52 am
It's okay to criticize, but when things aren't good.

If people just want to "scream" because whatever feature they feel is completely necessary is missing, or because a certain decision isn't exactly as they visioned it, without constructive criticism... well don't lol
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Tad on July 11, 2017, 09:34:37 pm
Criticism is fine providing it's based off solid foundations that warrant it. My assessment of Sonic Forces is purely based on what we've seen so far (as I said in my last post) and should be taken as such till the game is out. Although I am looking forward to playing it, I do have what I consider fair concerns of Sonic Team making the same mistake as we've seen before, but we'll have to wait and see.

There's definitely more interest in Mania at the moment, but that might just be due nostalgia and a set release date.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 12, 2017, 06:49:29 pm
Criticism is fine providing it's based off solid foundations that warrant it. My assessment of Sonic Forces is purely based on what we've seen so far (as I said in my last post) and should be taken as such till the game is out. Although I am looking forward to playing it, I do have what I consider fair concerns of Sonic Team making the same mistake as we've seen before, but we'll have to wait and see.

There's definitely more interest in Mania at the moment, but that might just be due nostalgia and a set release date.

nostalgia has nothing to do with it.  I just want it to be what I consider good.  I stopped getting Sonic games new because of everything that Sonic was doing that wasn't what made me like it in the first place.  Sega was pretty much like, "fuck you for liking Sonic til now, we're focusing on a new group of fans now."  But every game seems to be a weird science experiment and Sonic doesn't feel cool like he did in older games.  Nostalgia has nothing to do with this though because the newer games keep turning me off.  I know Sega is trying, but it seems like they don't understand or are too stubborn to change it now.  They do still have fans who support them.  But i can't lie to myself every time a new game comes out.  I'll be honest too that reusing older zones in Mania turns me off but at the very least half of those reused zones will have original content.  Plus there's newer zones and excellent gameplay, music, and animation.   I think Sega seriously needs to drop making Sonic games for a while and leave it up to the fans.  I really REALLY do. 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 13, 2017, 07:53:50 am
Has it crossed your mind that maybe what you consider to be good doesn't please the target audience?

And if you think Sega needs to stop making Sonic games for a while, lucky you, because the last one came out in 2013 - the biggest break the series has had ever.

The reason these games turn you off is because you don't like them, that doesn't make them bad.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 13, 2017, 05:09:28 pm
Has it crossed your mind that maybe what you consider to be good doesn't please the target audience?

And if you think Sega needs to stop making Sonic games for a while, lucky you, because the last one came out in 2013 - the biggest break the series has had ever.

The reason these games turn you off is because you don't like them, that doesn't make them bad.

Lemme compare Sonic to Mega Man and you might understand.

Durring the 90s gaming entered the 16 bit era, and Mega Man classic games were getting stale and repetitive for both the gamers and the people who made them.  So when SNES came around they decided to revamp Mega Man's gameplay and story to suit the hardware and attract a now mature audience who most likely were kids who grew up playing the classic Mega Man games.  Mega Man X series came from it and it was fun and cool as hell.  The gameplay transitioned well to 16 bit and the music was tasty.  But most of all, X was cooler than classic Mega Man.  Unfortunately this didn't last as sequels came out.  There were some good ones and some god awful ones later on.  needless to say, there aren't any more Mega Man X games.  not because being cool sucked, but because the later sequels sucked hard.  They made the series a total joke.  This is what happened to Sonic.  Classic Sonic was over by Saturn era and Dreamcast gave us the cool reboot of Sonic, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.  These improved Sonic in a 3D enviornment and understood what made Sonic cool and appealing.  Plus the music was tasty.  :D  Then Heroes came out and made Sonic a total joke.  then Shadow.... then 06.... then the wii games... Sonic got dorkier and dorkier as his music and gameplay took a nosedive with him.  Sonic and Mega Man used to be cool, now they're parodies, shadows of their former selves.  That's when Mega Man 9 happened.  That's when Sonic Mania happened.  We had to actually go back to the beginning to remind us of the good times and guess what?  They're actually fun.  They're actually cool.  Sadly Capcom seems to be against making any more Mega Man games after MM10 and Sega is still going on with Modern Sonic.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 13, 2017, 05:15:33 pm
Also Sega allowed BRB to make Sonic Boom, and that shit is still going too.  >:(  There's your Sonic games after 2013.  not to mention the shitty app games.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 13, 2017, 05:19:57 pm
The minute you change a franchise to cater to a wider or younger audience it fails.  >:(  Mega Man and Sonic needed reboots but they also had to be cooler and cater to the older audience who still played games.  There were adults I knew back then who loved them too.  That's how I was able to play them at such a young age, through their consoles and games. 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 13, 2017, 05:20:56 pm
Older Mega Man and Sonic games still rock to this very day.  i can't say the same for garbage like Fist Bump.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 13, 2017, 05:41:45 pm
First of all, stop quadruple posting. It's against the rules and you come off as rude.

Secondly, Sonic is about 3 times bigger than Mega Man. It doesn't even come close. Even more so when you take into account that Sonic is recognized worldwide by kids and adults alike. It seems to me that a LOT of people really enjoy Sonic.

Thirdly, I wholeheartedly disagree with you in most of your points. Brands evolve over time to cater to new audiences. Gentle reminder that a 20 year old that played Sega and Sonic when it first came out is now 45. You think Sega should make Sonic appealing to 45 year olds? You think that's the main demographic?

No. Us old farts have Mania appealing to our nostalgia. But kids...kids fucking love Modern Sonic. And that's great.

Sonic Boom is a TV tie-in spinoff. The Sonic Boom cartoon has been a massive success worldwide. And the "shitty app games" are some of the most downloaded and played games on mobile, with over 250 million downloads.

All your arguments point to one simple fact: YOU don't like the newer Sonic stuff, and that is OK. But the series is doing fine regardless of your opinion. So stop this insane discussion all because you didn't like a song in a kid's game.
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 13, 2017, 05:49:42 pm
First of all, stop quadruple posting. It's against the rules and you come off as rude.

Secondly, Sonic is about 3 times bigger than Mega Man. It doesn't even come close. Even more so when you take into account that Sonic is recognized worldwide by kids and adults alike. It seems to me that a LOT of people really enjoy Sonic.

Thirdly, I wholeheartedly disagree with you in most of your points. Brands evolve over time to cater to new audiences. Gentle reminder that a 20 year old that played Sega and Sonic when it first came out is now 45. You think Sega should make Sonic appealing to 45 year olds? You think that's the main demographic?

No. Us old farts have Mania appealing to our nostalgia. But kids...kids fucking love Modern Sonic. And that's great.

Sonic Boom is a TV tie-in spinoff. The Sonic Boom cartoon has been a massive success worldwide. And the "shitty app games" are some of the most downloaded and played games on mobile, with over 250 million downloads.

All your arguments point to one simple fact: YOU don't like the newer Sonic stuff, and that is OK. But the series is doing fine regardless of your opinion. So stop this insane discussion all because you didn't like a song in a kid's game.

I'm not saying 45 year olds, i'm saying 20 year olds as well as kids and teens.  45 year olds are just older, that's all.  thir taste in gaming has not changed since they played em in the first place.  >:(  HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND???? 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 13, 2017, 06:30:11 pm
45 year olds are just older, that's all.  thir taste in gaming has not changed since they played em in the first place.  >:(  HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND???? 
Well, pretty hard considering it's simply not true.
I'm 25 and my taste has changed significantly over the years. Over many many things, let alone videogames.

My point was that eventually we will be 40, and to expect that Sega will cater Sonic games to us is insane. They have to draw the line somewhere. Modern Sonic are aimed at sub-15 or close, with some nods to older fans who still enjoy it.
Sonic Mania on the other hand is being made for us, who played the originals.

Take deep breaths, relax, don't take it so seriously :)
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 14, 2017, 06:40:55 am
Well, pretty hard considering it's simply not true.
I'm 25 and my taste has changed significantly over the years. Over many many things, let alone videogames.

My point was that eventually we will be 40, and to expect that Sega will cater Sonic games to us is insane. They have to draw the line somewhere. Modern Sonic are aimed at sub-15 or close, with some nods to older fans who still enjoy it.
Sonic Mania on the other hand is being made for us, who played the originals.

Take deep breaths, relax, don't take it so seriously :)

Oh no heaven forbid games appeal to gamers instead of just casuals.  Casuals are the future.  :p 
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 14, 2017, 09:27:32 am
Oh no heaven forbid games appeal to gamers instead of just casuals.  Casuals are the future.  :p 
Everyone was a casual when they started playing games. Remember that.
And our memorable first games were usually "casual-friendly".
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: Shun-Di on July 14, 2017, 11:28:21 pm
Everyone was a casual when they started playing games. Remember that.
And our memorable first games were usually "casual-friendly".

:/ It's not the same, Crack Man.  (great now i'm picturing a Robot Master hopped up on cocaine!)  The older games had more to them.  You know what?  screw it.  I'm going back to Sonic Time Twisted.   Gotta do something until Mania is out or i'll go crazy arguing with fans who are clearly wrong in thinking all Sonic games are the same.  :p
Title: Re: The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...
Post by: crackdude on July 15, 2017, 10:11:15 am
If that is what you take from what I said, then I have no business talking to you. Whatever floats your boat dood