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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyT on May 24, 2015, 12:04:24 am

Title: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: CrazyT on May 24, 2015, 12:04:24 am
Mobile gaming is starting to dominate japan more and more. Recently ive read that japan has had its worst retail gaming week ever, and this had led to a lot of discussion at neogaf for example.

But its got me wondering, will I ever be able to take mobile gaming serious? At the beginning when i got my first smartphone, I was actually pretty excited, but then i played chrono trigger on my iphone 4 at the time, and i really never felt like the type of games i love were suited on the platform.

Yet more and more devs are putting all their resources towards mobile now. With recently konami, i wouldnt be surprised more publishers will make the jump next after the horrible numbers.

Ive been able to adept to a lot of things despite me being very picky, but im not sure if im ever gonna be part of this new big mobile audience..
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Moody on May 24, 2015, 12:31:02 am
If I had a smartphone I'd take advantage of it, probably. I doubt it's going to replace traditional forms of gaming like some people say, but eventually it's going to be more accepted in more circles. Definitely never going to replace consoles as a whole.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: TimmiT on May 24, 2015, 07:08:37 am
I have no problems with games being on mobile phones, my problem is more with F2P games that handle microtransactions badly. Like while a game like Sonic Dash which really really tries to get you to spend money on it by making it so that it's easier to get a higher score by paying, I don't mind Crossy Road in which you can just play the game and pay money for neat extras, which you can also get by normally playing it.

Speaking of Crossy Road, I am excited for this new Pac-Man game that's by the same studio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRr9XZ-DvO8
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Aki-at on May 24, 2015, 07:22:34 am
Yes, infact I'm looking forward to Hortensia Saga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPuX2Qk_nJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPuX2Qk_nJ8)

Just publish it yourself SEGA instead of using third parties.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: SOUP on May 24, 2015, 12:45:19 pm
I haven't really enjoyed many mobile games. It seems like most of them are packed full of pay-walls, and microtransactions.
Controls can be pretty hit or miss when they try to jam certain genres on to touch-based devices.

The only mobile game that I really enjoy is Threes.
You pay a reasonable fee for the game, and never get pummeled with adds, or requests to buy extra content.  The design is really intuitive too, and it's a great game for passing time.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: inthesky on May 24, 2015, 05:14:08 pm
I can't, as I don't have a tablet or smartphone. And don't feel inclined to get either. =P

But to get to the spirit of the topic, I don't have an essential problem with mobile gaming, it's more that certain experiences will NOT be replicated on the platform (fighting games, to start) and any large-scale shift from Japanese companies that involves primarily focusing on mobile will involve the death/continued dormancy of IPs I like.

It's generally true that certain experiences like classical RPG's and visual novels and like can be replicated on mobile sphere (in spite of some of the stupidity involved with these ostensibly easy concepts, like Ace Attorney on tablet.) However a sufficient long transition period that could bring mobile/nondedicated gaming stuff to a more robust setup closer and yet a bit behind than we what we have today (better graphics, controllers, etc, complete parity is obv not an option any time soon)

My other problem is just the either-or nature of how the industry works. Japanese consumers have been dealing with some persistent economic troubles, and this makes the relatively higher-end traditional package game stuff less attractive. But it's not like these console gamers are switching - I think it's more that the mobile audience is bigger, for reasons that are probably obvious. In any case, I have a hard time not thinking that if things were different domestically in Japan the industry there would be healthier. Instead of the more polarized direction which is palatable to pursuit of the bottom line (blockbuster games, f2p, mid tier being squeezed out, etc.)

It's partially why I find Project X Zone 2's story so fascinating. It clearly bombed in Japan, but it very likely sold well enough in the US to merit its localization and production. The developers did comment that they waited until they heard about Western sales before moving forward on another. It makes me think that the West is the stronger economic force in gaming.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Nirmugen on May 24, 2015, 06:06:57 pm
I think the Westside of the industry is in a economic bubble with pros and cons in consoles but that doesn't mean that a project from Japan that fail it there could enter in the West and be successful because there is a niche in a handheld Console with a big consumer audience who will pay for that kind of game first day/week/month/season all the time.

It's more like how much the company that publish this game will pay for that localization and distribution and deal with every results. Bamco paid it and do a sequel for only please their obtained fanbase  and it's the only one that could do that with many of their heavy-licensing releases every year worldwide AFAIK. Because one simple reason: They have money to do so, a LOT of money.

Sega-Sammy kind of do that with Miku, DBFC and Y5 this year but it's more a try than a full plan. They have money to invest but no in the long run.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 25, 2015, 04:42:47 am
I have been playing games on phone a lot more since I got some really good stuff on the humble bundle, I think the Joe Danger mobile conversion was really well done, so surprised
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.hellogames.jdtouch&hl=en

I also suggest you check out Monument Valley. Its a bit simple but really fun, I found. Tho its just a pretty 'move stuff around till it clicks'.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ustwo.monumentvalley&hl=en
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 25, 2015, 05:04:44 am
Gaming is  poor  on the mobile and only somthing I do when bored on the way too or in work,. but in most cases I just surf the web or look at facebook on the mobile instead  . The interface is all wrong for gaming imo , but its ok for puzzle games , but rubbish for most others - I got most of the Cave shooters on my Tablet and while there are arcade perfect - i so much rather play them  the PC through Emu or on systems like the the 360 Ect .
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 25, 2015, 08:15:35 am
Nope, I really don't have much love at all for mobile gaming.

When I first got a phone that could play games there was some novelty in 'wow, I can play this stuff on my phone!' which quickly became 'this is kind of dull/jank'.

Angry Birds is probably the most fun I've had with mobile phone games, and that was just something I played before going to sleep or waiting in line at the bank. It was a clever little game, ditto Plants vs Zombies which was fun for train trips, but the novelty has worn off.

I thought I would really enjoy Knights of the Old Republic, and it works really well on touch screen surprisingly, but even so I just find myself playing games on my phone less and less. I haven't even finished KotOR despite it being a good port of a game I enjoyed. I just dont' enjoy playing it on mobile for some reason.

In situations where I could be playing, I'd rather just read a book or watch a video or listen to music instead most of the time now.

Maybe one day mobile gaming will become more of thing, but as it is I really have no love for it.

EDIT: Also Touch Screen is terrible for the vast majority of game types, no getting around it.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 25, 2015, 12:42:33 pm
I just can't see how I could experience any sort of immersion or even intensity with a mobile game. I think it's unfortunate that Japan is shifting in this way, but I reckon it's due to the immense societal/business pressures there. Most Japanese people apparently have little space and dwindling free time for console gaming. It makes sense when most of their free time is spent commuting on trains. It's just unfortunate because as a kid growing up I felt a kind of cross-cultural kinship and with Japanese culture knowing we had this shared interest in games. Now that's ending. Japanese developers don't seem to have much passion for being technologically competitive anymore, either.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 25, 2015, 04:49:27 pm
Well, 'Japan is shifting that way' is correct but so are the youths around the world. So you can pretend its 'lame' but its a market that continues to grow.

Also 'Japanese developers being technologically competitive', why? I think this is the lack of selling software. If Capcom can't make a profit on 4 million units, why bother?  I think this is called 'not having a market'.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 25, 2015, 08:33:55 pm
Believe me, I know - my tastes being out of step with the mainstream is nothing new. It's not that I'm pretending mobile games are lame. They're just fundamentally different from the video games I grew up with. The control scheme is just lacking. I can't understand why they threw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to controls. Touchscreens could have been great in addition to dpads, sticks and buttons.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 26, 2015, 07:41:24 am
So you can pretend its 'lame' but its a market that continues to grow.

We aren't 'pretending'.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 26, 2015, 08:52:32 am
yes.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: TimmiT on May 26, 2015, 05:10:40 pm
Well, 'Japan is shifting that way' is correct but so are the youths around the world. So you can pretend its 'lame' but its a market that continues to grow.
(http://i.imgur.com/Db9emsP.jpg)

So I'm only pretending that I don't like season passes, day 1 DLC and manipulative microtransactions, cause those are all markets that continue to grow?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 26, 2015, 05:33:58 pm
No, you can hate practices, like microtransactions. Its just ignorant and idiotic to pretend all console games are day one dlc, micrtansactions and Ubisoft type open world games. Basically what console gamers do with mobile gaming.
(http://i.imgur.com/WUnHykU.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 26, 2015, 06:51:57 pm
Yes, I like mobile gaming from time to time... I see it as an emerging platform for gaming and I look forward to the future of tablet gaming.

If I had been born in the 1970's and late 70's early 80's games were the norm I would not have been a console gamer... Frankly even the very best offerings from that era are kind of ugly, often dull and repetitive... They don't hold my attention and wouldn't have if I was a kid then. This CAN often be the case for mobile gaming now, it's only just finding its feet and at least in my opinion mobile games are already often much better than most things from early console gaming. A decade from now, mobile gaming will be very different and in my opinion very interesting.

Here is some cutting edge 1980's videogames: I'm sure you'll agree they look shit as hell.
(http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Features/2011/03/ClassicRadar/Greatest%20years%20in%20gaming%20history/Finished/032411_5year10great_1980_01--article_image.jpg)

But videogames 35 years later have come a long way and mobile games will come much further in a much shorter time frame.

Here is SEGA's own Hortensia Saga:
(http://gm-cdn.gamezebo.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/newsegarpg_featured.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 26, 2015, 08:18:17 pm
Here is some cutting edge 1980's videogames: I'm sure you'll agree they look shit as hell.

What an ignorant attitude! You're either trolling or you just genuinely have no understanding of the evolution of computers and, subsequently, video games. Without those "shit as hell" games your freemium garbage simply wouldn't exist, pretty though it is. The acceleration of technological advancements is undeniable, but it couldn't have just skipped its earlier stages to begin in the eras of 3D and HD graphics. Same with game design principles. No one would just think of the full range and depth of current games without iterating on the designs over the course of many years.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: TimmiT on May 27, 2015, 06:17:37 am
No, you can hate practices, like microtransactions. Its just ignorant and idiotic to pretend all console games are day one dlc, micrtansactions and Ubisoft type open world games. Basically what console gamers do with mobile gaming.
(http://i.imgur.com/WUnHykU.jpg)
Hold on there, that's not what I said. I said that it was a trend, not that it's something every game uses. I also never mentioned that I dislike Ubisoft type open world games, which I think can be good if they're done well. Also, you were talking about pretending that someone thinks something is 'lame', not that all games are part of certain trends. Are you trying to be wrong about what either of us have said on purpose or something?

(http://i.imgur.com/Ju1zsdD.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Aki-at on May 27, 2015, 07:19:59 am
Hold on there, that's not what I said. I said that it was a trend, not that it's something every game uses. I also never mentioned that I dislike Ubisoft type open world games, which I think can be good if they're done well. Also, you were talking about pretending that someone thinks something is 'lame', not that all games are part of certain trends. Are you trying to be wrong about what either of us have said on purpose or something?

(http://i.imgur.com/Ju1zsdD.jpg)

Guys please, stop this fighting, can't we just all get along? Love and Peace! LOVE AND PEACE!


(http://www.anime-vidcaps.net/images/223/1118440618.jpg)

Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2015, 08:16:37 am
What an ignorant attitude! You're either trolling or you just genuinely have no understanding of the evolution of computers and, subsequently, video games. Without those "shit as hell" games your freemium garbage simply wouldn't exist, pretty though it is. The acceleration of technological advancements is undeniable, but it couldn't have just skipped its earlier stages to begin in the eras of 3D and HD graphics. Same with game design principles. No one would just think of the full range and depth of current games without iterating on the designs over the course of many years.

Also, are we talking about graphics or gameplay? Many of those games are more fun than many of the mobile games of today, thanks to the gameplay designed to abuse addictive personalities and children.

I'd probably rather play Asteroids than 'Click on a farm: wait 8 hours OR PAY MORE MONEY!'


As for George's argument: In general I don't like mobile games. The vast majority i've played have been pretty skinner boxes (Total War), unplayable due to touch-screen (every console/arcade port ever), or just mildly fun games that I can take or leave and only play while I'm waiting for a bus (Hitman:Go, Angry Birds, Bridge maker game who's name I can't remember).

Not to mention there are so many games that require me to be online to play the fucking thing, Rhythm of Fighters and Chain Chronicles for example. I don't play those ever, because I don't have the internet when I'm underground on the subway, don't want to use my data, or when I'm at home, I have infinitely more fun games to play instead.

Now I can't say I hate ALL mobile games, but when I don't enjoy or don't play 99% of them does it really make much difference. Even Knights of the Old Republic, I couldn't bother to finish because I only play it on the bus/train and I'd usually rather just read, even though I loved the original on Xbox. Not to mention the Swoop Bike racing sections are practically impossible to complete because SURPRISE: TOUCH CONTROLS ARE SHIT.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 27, 2015, 11:27:53 am
Mademan I feel the same way about some games. Like, I got R-Type 1/2 on my phone (part of a Humble Mobile Bundle) and I find the game impossible to play on touch screens. I think games have to be tailored well for touch screens and games like that are not. Like I stated Joe Danger did a great job, so surprised. I don't think mobile is there to replace consoles, I think its a different platform that is used casually. Sadly most gamers are casuals, some feel like mobile is just 'enough' gaming to keep them happy and not spend 60 bucks per title, that they won't finish.
Hold on there, that's not what I said. I said that it was a trend, not that it's something every game uses. I also never mentioned that I dislike Ubisoft type open world games, which I think can be good if they're done well. Also, you were talking about pretending that someone thinks something is 'lame', not that all games are part of certain trends. Are you trying to be wrong about what either of us have said on purpose or something?

(http://i.imgur.com/Ju1zsdD.jpg)
I was discussing the whole 'I hate mobile' is like broadly saying 'I hate console gaming', then listing the reasons as 'I don't like day one DLC, pre-order items and season passes', while the most popular console games have these shoddy practice I don't think people should condemned a growing platform because its main games are abusive. This happens in arcades as well, games that would be cheap just to take quarters. I think people should see mobile gaming as a supplement to console gaming, the way handhelds where as well. Its not going to replace a home experience like 'The Witcher 3', but mobile gaming can have fun little games that pass the time while your out of the house and only have a phone.
(http://i.imgur.com/6npp0yd.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: TimmiT on May 27, 2015, 02:35:35 pm
I was discussing the whole 'I hate mobile' is like broadly saying 'I hate console gaming', then listing the reasons as 'I don't like day one DLC, pre-order items and season passes', while the most popular console games have these shoddy practice I don't think people should condemned a growing platform because its main games are abusive. This happens in arcades as well, games that would be cheap just to take quarters. I think people should see mobile gaming as a supplement to console gaming, the way handhelds where as well. Its not going to replace a home experience like 'The Witcher 3', but mobile gaming can have fun little games that pass the time while your out of the house and only have a phone.
(http://i.imgur.com/6npp0yd.jpg)

You are absolutely right.

(http://i.imgur.com/qDofq6r.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 27, 2015, 02:49:03 pm
Quote
Well, 'Japan is shifting that way' is correct but so are the youths around the world. So you can pretend its 'lame' but its a market that continues to grow


Its lame for gaming . who on earth would rather play games on a Mobile , rather than on a Big screen and a controller . I can play games on my Smart TV, but they're still shit compared to playing a game with a pad imo .
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 27, 2015, 03:14:12 pm
Like I said, mobile is getting casual gamers, so is PC with their free-to-play games. Consoles will catch up when the price of entry is lower. Most people rather get a smart phone that they will use than a console that will get played very little. Most of my friends that have 360's use it mostly for Netflix.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 27, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
Like I said, mobile is getting casual gamers, so is PC with their free-to-play games. Consoles will catch up when the price of entry is lower. Most people rather get a smart phone that they will use than a console that will get played very little. Most of my friends that have 360's use it mostly for Netflix.

Buying an Xbox 360, paying for Xbox Live Gold, all just to get Netflix (When you have to pay on top of that for the netflix Sub too)...

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lorskxyFbA1qjgk86o1_1280.png)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 27, 2015, 05:20:30 pm
Buying an Xbox 360, paying for Xbox Live Gold, all just to get Netflix (When you have to pay on top of that for the netflix Sub too)...

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lorskxyFbA1qjgk86o1_1280.png)
Yeah, exactly. Though it seems more people are joining the mobile train, Pier Solar is now on iPhones.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pier-solar-great-architects/id992665779?ls=1&mt=12

But I agree, I never liked the whole 'Pay for Gold to watch movies' trend.

I think casuals are tired of wasting money and think 'f2p' title is enough for them, since most people already have a smart phone regardless. Unlike PS4 that has a 400 dollar entry fee, Playstation Plus payment, $60 dollar for new games and now the rise of season passes. Its a bit much.
(http://i.imgur.com/vxdzonM.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 27, 2015, 05:39:44 pm
What an ignorant attitude! You're either trolling or you just genuinely have no understanding of the evolution of computers and, subsequently, video games. Without those "shit as hell" games your freemium garbage simply wouldn't exist, pretty though it is. The acceleration of technological advancements is undeniable, but it couldn't have just skipped its earlier stages to begin in the eras of 3D and HD graphics. Same with game design principles. No one would just think of the full range and depth of current games without iterating on the designs over the course of many years.

Lol, what are you so upset about? Are early 80's video games collectively your gran or something?

I understand perfectly well that games now couldn't exist without them, in fact that was the foundation of the point I was making; gaming has come a long way both in terms of graphics and gameplay... And mobile gaming will too. And what's with this 'fermium garbage' shit talking? Is it wilful ignorance that you still think all mobile games must be garbage? A quick google search will set you straight...

Also it's not an ignorant attitude, it's my opinion... I love 2D sprite based gaming but frankly there is not a single game from the Atari/Spectrum era that hasn't been done better. If I was born at that time, I would much rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than watch some green dots flicker on a black screen. Don't like my opinion?

(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/193/7/3/Snufkin_by_NitaShinori.jpg)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 27, 2015, 08:56:25 pm
Lol, what are you so upset about? Are early 80's video games collectively your gran or something?
...
If I was born at that time, I would much rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than watch some green dots flicker on a black screen. Don't like my opinion?

I'm not sure how 80s games could be my gran, but it does remind me that the only games grannies play are mobile games. Because that's who they're made for. People who have slowed down, don't want the pressure of having to play skillfully. Just a languid flick of a finger every 30 seconds or so. :D

Anyway, I think it's a ridiculous opinion because the logical conclusion would be that there are people as wise as your fictitious young 80s self who realize that mobile games, indeed all games, aren't good enough yet and in 30 years will be much better. So logically you should still be doing something else other than playing current video games.

Me, mad?!

(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/studioghibli/images/a/a3/Ohmu.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140128191334)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 27, 2015, 09:25:54 pm
Games have been shit since the dawn of time, that's beyond the point.

As I look at it, mobile games are the logical evolution of arcade games. Were you angry in the 90s that 50cents gave you literally 3 minutes of gameplay?

If the game is good enough, you'll pay. Otherwise, find another game.

Why does Sega have such freaking excellent mobile games? Because they still are an arcade gaming company, 30 years on. Sonic Runners, Crazy Taxi CityRush, SMB Bounce...all great arcade games. You pick them up and play for 10min for free, or pay a buck or two and play them for 2 hours.

I really don't see what the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 28, 2015, 03:05:42 am
Quote
As I look at it, mobile games are the logical evolution of arcade games.


 Really , Name me one Arcade game that uses just a 5 inch screen and the list of Arcade games that use 'just' touch control for their interface is tiny too . Only the playtime is the same as Arcade games, the experince and controls are for the most part totally different.


So I don't buy this Mobile and Arcades are just the same at all







Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 28, 2015, 03:14:53 am
Its comparable in that their both their own type of micropayment. In something like Crazy Taxi: City Rush, instead of paying per a turn and doing bad, You can play Crazy Taxi for 45 min bursts (if wanted) before you wait 20 minutes to fill up. If you wand diamonds to get more time or items, you can. Everything is unlockable through playing the actual game.

While on arcades you would put quarters in per turn or number of lives, it was a micropayment of quarters. You never owned anything, you just payed for a turn on a machine.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 28, 2015, 03:24:13 am

 Really , Name me one Arcade game that uses just a 5 inch screen and the list of Arcade games that use 'just' touch control for their interface is tiny too . Only the playtime is the same as Arcade games, the experince and controls are for the most part totally different.


So I don't buy this Mobile and Arcades are just the same at all








I can safely assume that any iPhone 6 compatible game has dozens of times the resolution of a Model 2 machine. Screen size is irrelevant, I can easily play my mobile games on my TV if I want by AirPlay or android equivalents.

Also, the majority of arcade games have really simple controlls. Touch screen controlls are a non issue if the game is designed around them, like Crazy Taxi CityRush for example. It uses simple pick up and play touch screen controlls that make sense within it's mechanics to provide an experience relatable with the old games
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 28, 2015, 03:40:48 am
Quote
I can safely assume that any iPhone 6 compatible game has dozens of times the resolution of a Model 2 machine.


 VF II on the Saturn had better screen res than any Model 2 or 3 game and that's on a system that 20 years old now .


Quote
Screen size is irrelevant, I can easily play my mobile games on my TV if I want by AirPlay or android equivalents.


Yes, we all carry a 40 ince LCD TV with us on the train and around with us .




Next to no Arcades come with a 5 inch  screen  and the list of Arcade games (even ones from SEGA) that only use touch controls is tiny . So Mobile and Arcade games are not the same







Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 28, 2015, 03:48:46 am

 VF II on the Saturn had better screen res than any Model 2 or 3 game and that's on a system that 20 years old now .



Yes, we all carry a 40 ince LCD TV with us on the train and around with us .




Next to no Arcades come with a 5 inch  screen  and the list of Arcade games (even ones from SEGA) that only use touch controls is tiny . So Mobile and Arcade games are not the same








Because arcades are portable...? I don't know how taking the ganes with you and still having the option to play on a big screen is a bad thing.

So what controlls define arcade gaming? Hang On, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop are all arcade games with different controll schemes. Touch screen is a modern controll type.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 28, 2015, 05:41:16 am
Quote
Because arcades are portable...?



Im not the one saying Arcades and Mobiles are the same


Quote
So what controlls define arcade gaming? Hang On, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop are all arcade games with different controll schemes.


Yep they all share one thing in comon , they don't use touch controls  . So again Arcades and mobiles are not the same and may explain why even SEGA Japan doesn't use touch controls in its games as the main control (bar the odd light, fish  or music game).



Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 28, 2015, 05:56:17 am

Anyway, I think it's a ridiculous opinion because the logical conclusion would be that there are people as wise as your fictitious young 80s self who realize that mobile games, indeed all games, aren't good enough yet and in 30 years will be much better. So logically you should still be doing something else other than playing current video games.

No, because  there came a point when games began to rival books, film and other media and eventually surpassed it in my mind. Home console games changed a lot between the Atari days and the SEGA Master System and NES and by the time things like Phantasy Star 2, Sonic and Monster World 6 and Streets of Rage came out on Megadrive gaming was a far cry from those green dots on black background. It could have its own art style, beautifully drawn sprites, it could convey narrative through video and have awesome music. (Sure you can probably find rare instances of this in older games, but it just wasn't enough to really draw me in, films and books and tv series were just more thrilling.)

I actually was young in the 80's, my first games were Sonic and Altered Beast with both came with my first games console, The original Megadrive model, my brother who is a few years older had an Atari and ZX Spectrum but I never once felt compelled to play it growing up... Those simplistic games are not captivating to me.

I believe that in a decade from now mobile games will have also gone through a huge change, in fact there are already some incredibly captivating games on mobile.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 28, 2015, 06:48:17 am
Yep they all share one thing in comon , they don't use touch controls  . So again Arcades and mobiles are not the same and may explain why even SEGA Japan doesn't use touch controls in its games as the main control (bar the odd light, fish  or music game).
You're completely missing (on purpose?) my point.
Arcade games have NOTHING to do with controller types. I could name hundreds of arcade games and not two of them sharing the same controllers. It has to do with game design and concept: quick bursts of great fun and skill based gameplay.
Sega dominates this kind of games, and that's why Sega's mobile output is excellent. Because mobile and arcade games share this philosophy.

You don't like touch controlls, I get it. But try thinking beyond that.

I also agree with Sharky, the average mobile game is superior to 99% of those old ass games (even still enjoying some of those green dots and whatnot)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 28, 2015, 08:49:24 am
I think casuals are tired of wasting money and think 'f2p' title is enough for them, since most people already have a smart phone regardless. Unlike PS4 that has a 400 dollar entry fee, Playstation Plus payment, $60 dollar for new games and now the rise of season passes. Its a bit much.

That's exactly it, it's so much more convenient to just boot up a game on your phone on the bus or while watching Big Bang Theory rather than buy a console and play games on that.

Most people have only a very casual interest in gaming, and the lower you can set the bar, the better for them. It's the same as any other medium. How many people would sit down and watch an arthouse or independant film, or even a classic like Lawrence of Arabia or Fistful of Dollars rather than watch the latest  Adam Sandler shit? How many people would enjoy reading literature instead of '50 shades of Grey'?

It's low hanging fruit, and I can't get angry at people who enjoy it. I'm sure I enjoy music/movies/food etc that a hobbyist or an enthusiast would baulk at me for even considering.

I understand perfectly well that games now couldn't exist without them, in fact that was the foundation of the point I was making; gaming has come a long way both in terms of graphics and gameplay... And mobile gaming will too. And what's with this 'fermium garbage' shit talking? Is it wilful ignorance that you still think all mobile games must be garbage? A quick google search will set you straight...

Also it's not an ignorant attitude, it's my opinion... I love 2D sprite based gaming but frankly there is not a single game from the Atari/Spectrum era that hasn't been done better. If I was born at that time, I would much rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than watch some green dots flicker on a black screen. Don't like my opinion?

I agree that mobile games might (might) develop into something better, but we're asked if we have embraced it. I think most of us are just arguing that right now, most mobile games don't appeal to us.

Although, I find it strange you're so adopting on Mobile Phone games, but at the same time said you wouldn't have played 80's video games? Why wouldn't you rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than play mobile phone games for example?
So what controlls define arcade gaming? Hang On, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop are all arcade games with different controll schemes. Touch screen is a modern controll type.
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You don't like touch controlls, I get it. But try thinking beyond that.

Issue is that touch-screens are inherently bad for most game types. Not being bias, it's a fact. You need to literally cover the display with your finger to play. That's an inherent flaw that games can work around,  yes, but it's still an inferior control scheme for most games.
Games have been shit since the dawn of time, that's beyond the point.

As I look at it, mobile games are the logical evolution of arcade games. Were you angry in the 90s that 50cents gave you literally 3 minutes of gameplay?

If the game is good enough, you'll pay. Otherwise, find another game.

Why does Sega have such freaking excellent mobile games? Because they still are an arcade gaming company, 30 years on. Sonic Runners, Crazy Taxi CityRush, SMB Bounce...all great arcade games. You pick them up and play for 10min for free, or pay a buck or two and play them for 2 hours.

I really don't see what the fuss is about.

It's not really the same. Arcade games made you pay more by being hard, you were rewarded for skill.

Most of the freemium app shit on the market make you pay more by making the game tedious as fuck without paying. Not to mention, they don't have an option to buy the 'full experience' like a home port (which I always preferred to arcade releases anyway), AND even if you could, all you get is a lacklustre game that has no challenge (since the incentive to buy is just removing waiting times or near impossible roadblocks instead of actual difficulty).

You can get good at Crazy Taxi and play for 10 minutes to get a high score. You can't 'Get good' at Total War Battles: Kingdom and skip that 8 hour waiting time. You can only pay for it.
No, because  there came a point when games began to rival books, film and other media and eventually surpassed it in my mind.

I don't think you can really compared wildly different mediums like that. Each is always going to have their own flaws and strengths over the others.

Film will always, always have strengths over games and vica versa, ditto books.

Quote
I also agree with Sharky, the average mobile game is superior to 99% of those old ass games (even still enjoying some of those green dots and whatnot)

Being better than examples from the same medium that came out nearly 4 decades prior isn't much of an achievement though.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Aki-at on May 28, 2015, 08:57:38 am
Issue is that touch-screens are inherently bad for most game types. Not being bias, it's a fact. You need to literally cover the display with your finger to play. That's an inherent flaw that games can work around,  yes, but it's still an inferior control scheme for most games.

Playing the Sonic the Hedgehog ports on my mobile has given me an appreciation for it but I definitely think for 3D input you need more than touch screen. We might get there but for the most part the mobile games I play are either RPGs or 2D games.

Being better than examples from the same medium that came out nearly 4 decades prior isn't much of an achievement though.

I'd rather get a Chain Chronicle 2 than a Bayonetta 3 >: 3
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 28, 2015, 09:19:37 am
Playing the Sonic the Hedgehog ports on my mobile has given me an appreciation for it but I definitely think for 3D input you need more than touch screen. We might get there but for the most part the mobile games I play are either RPGs or 2D games.

As I said, the main issue is that touch screen requires you to cover the display to control the game, there's no getting around it, unless you minimise the display. On mobile, that means making the small screen even smaller. And you still run into the smaller issues of not having any physical feedback on the controls for accuracy.

It can work for some games, like turn based RPGs or strategy etc, but it's still just 'good enough' compared to superior inputs.

I'd rather get a Chain Chronicle 2 than a Bayonetta 3 >: 3

I know you've said this before, but I'd really like to know why (unless you're trying to wrangle my jangles).

Also, I'm not holding out any hope for Bayonetta 3 anyway, or anything even remotely similar from Sega ever again, so you'll get your wish. We'll see "Bayonetta: Touch Me Freemium App" for Mobile Phones before we see Bayonetta 3 anyway.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 28, 2015, 10:51:20 am
No, because  there came a point when games began to rival books, film and other media and eventually surpassed it in my mind. Home console games changed a lot between the Atari days and the SEGA Master System and NES and by the time things like Phantasy Star 2, Sonic and Monster World 6 and Streets of Rage came out on Megadrive gaming was a far cry from those green dots on black background. It could have its own art style, beautifully drawn sprites, it could convey narrative through video and have awesome music. (Sure you can probably find rare instances of this in older games, but it just wasn't enough to really draw me in, films and books and tv series were just more thrilling.)

Well, certainly your own opinion is valid, but as I've thought more about it, what ruffles my feathers about being completely dismissive toward earlier games is the difference between technological prowess and artistic merit. Technology is always endeavored in advancement and progress. Mediums develop, evolve and go through massive changes. (We're on the cusp of another as we'll see in the next few years how VR and AR do in the general consumer marketplace.)

But games have always been more than technology - they are art as well. Not just visual art and audio art, but that other intangible quality - fun. And these artistic, intangible qualities are not about achieving technical progress, but achieving the status of timeless classics. To dismiss early games based on appearances and sound, you've missed the fun as well. If some of those old games weren't classic with deep gameplay, the industry would not have continued to develop. And because they are classics, some of them are still worth playing.

Of course, in this day and age, older games are an acquired taste, but one well worth cultivating, much like contemporary musicians can still enjoy and learn from older music. So ultimately, it's no big deal if you miss that fun experience, but it is disrespectful to the designers, programmers, artists and engineers who made those games to dismiss them in a flippant way, like they were worthless, when they are the foundation of everything. Everything! And let's not forget those hard working men and women on the assembly line, working that double shift to get the Pac Man cabinets out before the shipping deadline!! KEEP REACHING FOR THAT RAINBOW!!! *gathers composure*

I also agree with MadeMan's assessment that there's a serious difference in the prevailing design of mobile games versus classic arcade games. Mobile game design is often sinister... borderline evil. Frankly, a classic arcade game appeals to the best in people - striving to improve your skill. Mobile games appeal to the worst in people - addiction, and impatience. Oh, you're getting better at the game? Screw you, wait a few hours anyway. It's awful, and I'll tell you one thing for sure - that kind of "hook" was not designed by a game designer, it was designed by a cynical psychologist.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 28, 2015, 10:56:38 am
Issue is that touch-screens are inherently bad for most game types. Not being bias, it's a fact. You need to literally cover the display with your finger to play. That's an inherent flaw that games can work around,  yes, but it's still an inferior control scheme for most games.

It's not really the same. Arcade games made you pay more by being hard, you were rewarded for skill.
Most of the freemium app shit on the market make you pay more by making the game tedious as fuck without paying. Not to mention, they don't have an option to buy the 'full experience' like a home port (which I always preferred to arcade releases anyway), AND even if you could, all you get is a lacklustre game that has no challenge (since the incentive to buy is just removing waiting times or near impossible roadblocks instead of actual difficulty).
You can get good at Crazy Taxi and play for 10 minutes to get a high score. You can't 'Get good' at Total War Battles: Kingdom and skip that 8 hour waiting time. You can only pay for it.

Being better than examples from the same medium that came out nearly 4 decades prior isn't much of an achievement though.
I agree with you on touch controlls if we are talking about merely having virtual buttons or some shit. It doesn't work, and companies (Sega included with their early iOS ports) were wrong to go down that road.
But as I said, games can be VERY enjoyable if they are designed with touch in mind. Again, my fav example, Crazy Taxi CR has excellent gameplay with simple touch controlls and mechanics that fully incorporate them.

As with everything platform there are good and bad games. Good mobile games fully incorporate touch mechanics and balance gameplay time/microtransactions. Bad ones don't. Let's not throw every mobile game in the same bag.
Take Sonic Runners for example. You can play endlessly if you're good enough. This is a good mechanic.
Your Total War example, very bad mechanics. There is good and bad, we should not ignore the good because there is bad.

"But 99% of games are bad"
Tell me something new ;)

You're right, it is expected that 40 years later games are better. Point is, if I can enjoy Star Wars Empire Strikes Back on the Atari, why wouldn't I enjoy Temple Run or whatever mobile game people enjoy these days.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 28, 2015, 10:57:42 am
Centrale, now you sound like the collective mobile games murdered your nan.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Aki-at on May 28, 2015, 10:58:50 am
As I said, the main issue is that touch screen requires you to cover the display to control the game, there's no getting around it, unless you minimise the display. On mobile, that means making the small screen even smaller. And you still run into the smaller issues of not having any physical feedback on the controls for accuracy.

It can work for some games, like turn based RPGs or strategy etc, but it's still just 'good enough' compared to superior inputs.

Well yes if you have an iPhone but I have a Note 3. My finger probably only covers 5% of the screen at most. Although I can agree on the physical feedback, I've found Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to be excellent on mobile and have had no issues with the controls after getting used to the lack of buttons.

I know you've said this before, but I'd really like to know why (unless you're trying to wrangle my jangles).

Also, I'm not holding out any hope for Bayonetta 3 anyway, or anything even remotely similar from Sega ever again, so you'll get your wish. We'll see "Bayonetta: Touch Me Freemium App" for Mobile Phones before we see Bayonetta 3 anyway.

I just find Chain Chronicle enjoyable in short bursts, the strategic elements are unfortunately undermined if you level up to greatly, but the cast of characters, art and story was enjoyable enough to me to keep playing. There's going to be balancing issues addressed in version 2 with a lot more content that I'm looking forward too. The social aspect is pretty fun too, who'd have thought it'd be what I post most on NeoGAF about : P

Also I don't know why you wouldn't hold any hopes of an action game from SEGA ever again. I think you might be a bit too harsh on their production capability, wither the project gets localised or if it's something that interests you is something else entirely.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 28, 2015, 12:52:17 pm
I agree with you on touch controlls if we are talking about merely having virtual buttons or some shit. It doesn't work, and companies (Sega included with their early iOS ports) were wrong to go down that road.
But as I said, games can be VERY enjoyable if they are designed with touch in mind. Again, my fav example, Crazy Taxi CR has excellent gameplay with simple touch controlls and mechanics that fully incorporate them.

As with everything platform there are good and bad games. Good mobile games fully incorporate touch mechanics and balance gameplay time/microtransactions. Bad ones don't. Let's not throw every mobile game in the same bag.
Take Sonic Runners for example. You can play endlessly if you're good enough. This is a good mechanic.
Your Total War example, very bad mechanics. There is good and bad, we should not ignore the good because there is bad.

"But 99% of games are bad"
Tell me something new ;)

You're right, it is expected that 40 years later games are better. Point is, if I can enjoy Star Wars Empire Strikes Back on the Atari, why wouldn't I enjoy Temple Run or whatever mobile game people enjoy these days.

I'm talking about touch screen controls in general, you cannot escape the fact that you need to physically cover the display to play the game. Considering we are talking about 'Mobile' devices, this means the screen is already generally small, or you limit the 'mobility' of the device. You can make games around it, but in the end you're ultimately just trying to work around a liability.

There are some games that benefit from it, but I can't think of many, if any, examples where another input system wouldn't be superior.

It's basically just the lowest possible entry point for consumers, everyone has hands (well, most people) and it doesn't require any peripherals.

I'm also not saying all mobile games are skinner boxes, but I'm just pointing out the difference between inserting more quarters and micro-transactions in the popular model that is being used.

I don't know how Sonic Runners works because the game looks incredibly dull to me.

But we have far more options than just the games from 4 decades ago. If you feel that Temple run and the like are equal to other modern games then that's fine, but I disagree.

Again, not all mobile phone games are skinner boxes or terrible, but I've outlined reasons above why none of them have held my interest for very long. I will say that I played Hitman Go a bit this morning on the train and it's still quite fun. I bought it for $1 in the Eidos humble bundle though. I'll probably stop playing it by the time I buy a new book to read instead.


Well yes if you have an iPhone but I have a Note 3. My finger probably only covers 5% of the screen at most. Although I can agree on the physical feedback, I've found Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to be excellent on mobile and have had no issues with the controls after getting used to the lack of buttons.

I have a One plus One which is also a sizeable phone, but I still don't like to play anything real-time because of the issue of covering the screen with my hand and fingers. You can mitigate the downsides by making the display larger but you still have to cover the screen.

I used to play emulated games on my phone but found them borderline unplayable with touch screen. If you can play Sonic 2 then I'm genuinely impressed. I just find it too frustrating to be fun.

I just find Chain Chronicle enjoyable in short bursts, the strategic elements are unfortunately undermined if you level up to greatly, but the cast of characters, art and story was enjoyable enough to me to keep playing. There's going to be balancing issues addressed in version 2 with a lot more content that I'm looking forward too. The social aspect is pretty fun too, who'd have thought it'd be what I post most on NeoGAF about : P

Also I don't know why you wouldn't hold any hopes of an action game from SEGA ever again. I think you might be a bit too harsh on their production capability, wither the project gets localised or if it's something that interests you is something else entirely.

You find Chain Chronicles more fun and involving than Bayonetta? What about other Sega RPGs?
I would like to try Chain Chronicles, but it required me to be always online to play it (presumably so Sega can sell my personal details to the Yakuza) and it kept nagging me to buy shit even when the game wasn't running, so I uninstalled it.

As for Sega making another action game, do you really, truly believe there's more than a 1 in 1000 chance of that? Sega didn't even want to publish Bayonetta 2 which is an established IP that they own with a decent first game launch. Why would they try something again? They think translating PSO or Yakuza is 'too risky', why would they make a niche genre game?

When you say it wouldn't appeal to me, what do you mean, I feel I'm pretty open to most genres and styles if the game looks fun. I don't even see them making one for Japan only at this rate.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Team Andromeda on May 28, 2015, 01:21:04 pm
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You're completely missing (on purpose?) my point.Arcade games have NOTHING to do with controller types. I could name hundreds of arcade games and not two of them sharing the same controllers
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No the point you seem to be missing is that you can make a list of hundrends of Arcade games and hardly any of them will only use touch screen controls for the game - like a mobile phone does , never mind I can't think of one Arcade game that is played on a screen less that 10 inches big


Quote
[/color]I also agree with Sharky, the average mobile game is superior to 99% of those old ass games (even still enjoying some of those green dots and whatnot
[/color]


And the adverage Arcade or home console game is way better too . The trouble with mobile games overlooking the interface is the size of limits of most mobile phones . You know  even back in my ZX Spectrum days I hated it when I was told to move my system upstairs  to play in the 14 inch colour portable , rather than inthe big TV in the living room after Christmas break , never mind that the limited display of the phone is also obstructed by one hands when playing any mobile game , never mind the massive downgrade in gfx and sound compared to a AAA next gen console or PC game ..

Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Aki-at on May 28, 2015, 01:23:48 pm
I have a One plus One which is also a sizeable phone, but I still don't like to play anything real-time because of the issue of covering the screen with my hand and fingers. You can mitigate the downsides by making the display larger but you still have to cover the screen.

I used to play emulated games on my phone but found them borderline unplayable with touch screen. If you can play Sonic 2 then I'm genuinely impressed. I just find it too frustrating to be fun.

I do think it's an issue, but the bigger the screen the less the drawback it is. There is still an issue, like the Sonic's facing but I seem to have come to grips with it. I actually don't find it frustrating to play in the slightest and I can clock the Death Egg Zone in about a minute.

You find Chain Chronicles more fun and involving than Bayonetta? What about other Sega RPGs?

I like the characters, the gameplay is fun in short bursts (I know you'd suggest read a book or listen to music but what if I feel like doing neither? : P ) and I wouldn't mind a sequel expanding on the idea. The social aspect is cool if you get involved with a community too but version 2 has the biggest update for gameplay with missions (IE only archers, class debuffs etc) so I'm excited to see what the future brings too.

As for Sega making another action game, do you really, truly believe there's more than a 1 in 1000 chance of that? Sega didn't even want to publish Bayonetta 2 which is an established IP that they own with a decent first game launch. Why would they try something again? They think translating PSO or Yakuza is 'too risky', why would they make a niche genre game?

Why so pessmistic? SEGA sanctioned the development of a single player survival horror with limited gunplay and no multiplayer, releasing it to critical acclaim. Yeah it was part of the Alien IP but it's not like they had more luck with the franchise then right now.

Furthermore Phantasy Star Online 2 wasn't translated because it's too risky, you've got that one wrong. SEGA's stance is that it's still "coming" me and George speculate it's because SEGA sold the foreign rights off and now are stuck in legal redtape causing the delay but that's not certain. It's not officially cancelled.

Yakuza is completely different though, the games sold progressively worse in the West one after another, that's why they stopped releasing it here (Combined with poor performance of other titles.) but the series is an interesting one. It's not a cheap production in the least but SEGA is happy with sales of 500,000 on a yearly basis, even Alien's target sales of 2.3 million weren't exactly lofty, furthermore purchasing the likes of Atlus means they're happy with medium series so long as they remain profitable.

So if they're okay with an action game selling a million or two, I don't see why they wouldn't sanction another one. Furthermore I always considered their relationship with Platinum Games "damaged" Anarchy Reign > Madworld > Vanquish > Infinite Space. It wasn't Bayonetta that killed their relationships but the other four failed games.

When you say it wouldn't appeal to me, what do you mean, I feel I'm pretty open to most genres and styles if the game looks fun. I don't even see them making one for Japan only at this rate.

This meant for more traditional games like Phantasy Star Nova or Shining Resonance. They may or may not make another action game but they've shown they're not exactly a publisher that is easy to second guess.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 28, 2015, 01:53:25 pm
I do think it's an issue, but the bigger the screen the less the drawback it is. There is still an issue, like the Sonic's facing but I seem to have come to grips with it. I actually don't find it frustrating to play in the slightest and I can clock the Death Egg Zone in about a minute.

What do you mean by 'Sonic's Facing'? Is it hard to make small movements to just change the direction he's facing or something you mean?

Either way I haven't tried any emulated games on my new phone, but found Metal Slug 3 to still be un fun. That might be because it's a more involving game involving moving and aiming, but even so, it's a limitation to what I can and want to play on the platform.

I like the characters, the gameplay is fun in short bursts (I know you'd suggest read a book or listen to music but what if I feel like doing neither? : P ) and I wouldn't mind a sequel expanding on the idea. The social aspect is cool if you get involved with a community too but version 2 has the biggest update for gameplay with missions (IE only archers, class debuffs etc) so I'm excited to see what the future brings too.

I didn't mean to belittle it or suggest 'lol read a book', sorry if it came off like that. I was genuinely surprised you enjoyed the game so much. I knew you thought it was a fun mobile game, but I didn't realise you found it so engrossing is all. Didn't mean to come off snarky :(

It sounds like the sort of thing I could enjoy, but for the reasons I mentioned I haven't played it on mobile and don't plan to :/
Would be awesome if they made a retail release game, but it might not lend itself to that.

Furthermore Phantasy Star Online 2 wasn't translated because it's too risky, you've got that one wrong. SEGA's stance is that it's still "coming" me and George speculate it's because SEGA sold the foreign rights off and now are stuck in legal redtape causing the delay but that's not certain. It's not officially cancelled.

Yakuza is completely different though, the games sold progressively worse in the West one after another, that's why they stopped releasing it here (Combined with poor performance of other titles.) but the series is an interesting one. It's not a cheap production in the least but SEGA is happy with sales of 500,000 on a yearly basis, even Alien's target sales of 2.3 million weren't exactly lofty, furthermore purchasing the likes of Atlus means they're happy with medium series so long as they remain profitable.

I admit I didn't know that about PSO2. Point about Yakuza declining in sales, but my point is that they seem content to sit on their purchased franchises and milk them for all they are worth + licensed games rather than try something big and new. Can't blame them either sadly.

Atlus seems to be left to it's own devices, I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlus publish an action game (probably based on Persona at this rate), but not Sega.

So if they're okay with an action game selling a million or two, I don't see why they wouldn't sanction another one. Furthermore I always considered their relationship with Platinum Games "damaged" Anarchy Reign > Madworld > Vanquish > Infinite Space. It wasn't Bayonetta that killed their relationships but the other four failed games.

That's the crux of the matter, they shopped out Bayonetta 2 rather than publish it themselves. If they wouldn't even publish an established IP, made by the leading team in the genre with a relatively good existing fanbase/first game launch, why do you think they would revisit it?

If they had any interest in making an action game, why didn't they publish the action game they had full ownership of isntead of shopping it off to another publisher instead?

Not to mention, what is Sega showing us in terms of new IPs or projects that would lead me to believe they would ever go back to making an action game of that ilk?

As for Shining Resonance/Nova, I can't speak to those game's quality but I probably wouldn't even know they existed if you hadn't mentioned them just now. I would be happy with a low key release, but I doubt that would even happen at this point. I wouldn't want a nerfed game thrown onto handhelds like Valk 2 though.

Am I really being overly pessimistic?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Nirmugen on May 28, 2015, 03:01:02 pm
Why people think Bayonetta 1 was a good sucess? Don't get me wrong but I know people that bought the game first day and they talked me about being the only ones that buy because many people says "Sega,ugh,don't buy" and pass the title.


Even that, when they are promoting this game in Europe, they gave it a copy for Free because nobody bought it.


Until the buzz happen, Sega lost money, a lot with also the other PG projects.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 28, 2015, 03:10:36 pm
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Although, I find it strange you're so adopting on Mobile Phone games, but at the same time said you wouldn't have played 80's video games? Why wouldn't you rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than play mobile phone games for example?

Sometimes I WOULD rather watch a film or especially read a book and often do, but when I do want to play a game it will be something I enjoy and I rarely find any joy in games that old and simple. On the other hand mobile games offer a quick pick up and play burst of fun, especially great for waiting in line, before a meeting, in the doctors office or any other free moment.



Quote
Well, certainly your own opinion is valid, but as I've thought more about it, what ruffles my feathers about being completely dismissive toward earlier games is the difference between technological prowess and artistic merit. Technology is always endeavored in advancement and progress. Mediums develop, evolve and go through massive changes. (We're on the cusp of another as we'll see in the next few years how VR and AR do in the general consumer marketplace.)

But games have always been more than technology - they are art as well. Not just visual art and audio art, but that other intangible quality - fun. And these artistic, intangible qualities are not about achieving technical progress, but achieving the status of timeless classics. To dismiss early games based on appearances and sound, you've missed the fun as well. If some of those old games weren't classic with deep gameplay, the industry would not have continued to develop. And because they are classics, some of them are still worth playing.

I disagree that because something is a 'classic' it's worth playing... I'm glad it existed, I'm glad that like wooden Victorian era dildos they existed so that we can have nice ones now.... But just like wooden dildos I have no intention of wasting any time trying to eek out enjoyment from early games.


Quote
I also agree with MadeMan's assessment that there's a serious difference in the prevailing design of mobile games versus classic arcade games. Mobile game design is often sinister... borderline evil. Frankly, a classic arcade game appeals to the best in people - striving to improve your skill. Mobile games appeal to the worst in people - addiction, and impatience. Oh, you're getting better at the game? Screw you, wait a few hours anyway. It's awful, and I'll tell you one thing for sure - that kind of "hook" was not designed by a game designer, it was designed by a cynical psychologist.

'Mobile games' are not a genre... Mobile gaming is a platform... You're talking about free2play games specifically which may or may not be 'evil.' But f2p isn't exclusive to mobile either... PSO2 is f2p. Mobile gaming, as a platform has many genres of games including many ports of classic console games.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 28, 2015, 03:23:28 pm
Sometimes I WOULD rather watch a film or especially read a book and often do, but when I do want to play a game it will be something I enjoy and I rarely find any joy in games that old and simple. On the other hand mobile games offer a quick pick up and play burst of fun, especially great for waiting in line, before a meeting, in the doctors office or any other free moment.

That's fair, and the way I play mobile games too. But I'm putting it on the same level as a trashy magazine or the back of the cereal box when relegating it to only being played while I'm waiting at the VD clinic.

Is it purely a matter of convenience that you like mobile games then? That certainly is their #1 advantage, and the IMO the reason they are so popular.


Either way the reason I asked was I wanted to know what it was about Mobile games in particular you enjoyed more than old arcade games. What are some of your fave mobile games for example? I think mine are Hitman Go and Knights of the Old Republic, I wanted to try Chain Chronicles but.. yeah.



'Mobile games' are not a genre... Mobile gaming is a platform... You're talking about free2play games specifically which may or may not be 'evil.' But f2p isn't exclusive to mobile either... PSO2 is f2p. Mobile gaming, as a platform has many genres of games including many ports of classic console games.

He did mention specifically it's certain designs of games, not all mobile games.

As for the ports of classic console games, I've already outlined my reasons I don't enjoy them on mobile devices.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 28, 2015, 06:33:48 pm

Is it purely a matter of convenience that you like mobile games then? That certainly is their #1 advantage, and the IMO the reason they are so popular.
Yes and no, originally its often for convenience, sometimes its because someone said the game is cool and I want to check it out but very often I will get engrossed and end up spending plenty of time on a mobile game.


Quote
Either way the reason I asked was I wanted to know what it was about Mobile games in particular you enjoyed more than old arcade games. What are some of your fave mobile games for example? I think mine are Hitman Go and Knights of the Old Republic, I wanted to try Chain Chronicles but.. yeah.

Often I'll play ports, some are good some aren't. As someone mentioned Monument Valley is a good game. There is a SEGA game called Kingdoms Conquest 2 which was brilliant but dated now and I really hope they make another. For simple games there is a Super Monkey Ball Peggle clone that yes I only downloaded because it was SMB themed but I actually go back to quite often.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: DarthTsarkon on May 28, 2015, 07:13:30 pm
I can't say I'm crazy about it. When I got my first smartphone I was all about it but my interest quickly waned. Be it emu's or new content, I just can't stay focused on them. I think part of it for me hinges on the fact I prefer time consuming games that keep me planted in my seat for a while. So staring at a phone or a tablet is not my idea of fun. Plus, I think mobile gaming is more for the casual gamer. Quick games that are more of a time waster than a game. That is of course, not always the case, but it makes up alot of them.


I don't play as much as I used to when I was younger due to many factors, but when I do game I typically look for RPGs and sims. Games that will lock me in and keep me interested for many months. I just don't get that out of the mobile market.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 28, 2015, 08:23:01 pm
As for the issue with screen size, Google is now moving forward on fixing that. Their 'cast API' went on beta.

Soon:
http://www.google.com/cast/

You can also use bluetooth controllers in games.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: DarthTsarkon on May 29, 2015, 12:26:15 am
As for the issue with screen size, Google is now moving forward on fixing that. Their 'cast API' went on beta.

Soon:
http://www.google.com/cast/ (http://www.google.com/cast/)

You can also use bluetooth controllers in games.


Well, that does help but then I wouldn't exactly call that mobile. At that point, I'd rather be on my PC or a console. I get that there are pros in regards to mobile gaming, ease of access for casuals for one, but that isn't something I am really into. Just my viewpoint, not saying everyone feels that way.


I still love to play some Heroes of Might and Magic 2 on my tablet when I am on the go, but when I am home I'd rather just play on my PC. There is no doubt a shift to mobile gaming happening, it has been that way for a while now, but I don't see it ever replacing time intensive games anytime soon if ever. When you have to upgrade you screen and use controllers, I just don't see why people would want to mess with it.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 29, 2015, 12:38:48 am
Or you can play on your phone with touch controls.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2015, 08:40:15 am
Or you can play on your phone with touch controls.

Which goes right back to all the reasons outlined why touch controls are inherently bad for most games.
I like the idea of blowing it up to a bigger screen when you're home, but touch controls would be terrible for that because you need to see where you are touching because of now physical buttons to be able to 'navigate' by feel. Which means; you're just looking at the tiny screen again anyway.

Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 29, 2015, 09:47:52 am
Which goes right back to all the reasons outlined why touch controls are inherently bad for most games.
I like the idea of blowing it up to a bigger screen when you're home, but touch controls would be terrible for that because you need to see where you are touching because of now physical buttons to be able to 'navigate' by feel. Which means; you're just looking at the tiny screen again anyway.
Everything you just said is subjective to the game you are playing.
You can play CT:CR in a bigscreen with touch controlls without any issue. It plays great. Same thing with Sonic Runners or a number of other games optimized to touch.
You don't have to look at what you're touching.

It's like saying all PSX games were shit because you only played Barbie Horse Adventures and Vib Ribbon
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2015, 09:54:50 am
Everything you just said is subjective to the game you are playing.
You can play CT:CR in a bigscreen with touch controlls without any issue. It plays great. Same thing with Sonic Runners or a number of other games optimized to touch.
You don't have to look at what you're touching.

It's like saying all PSX games were shit because you only played Barbie Horse Adventures and Vib Ribbon

Those are games that literally are one-button controls, am I right?

Also you'll notice I said 'Most games'.  :afroman:
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Barry the Nomad on May 29, 2015, 10:10:10 am
Those are games that literally are one-button controls, am I right?

Also you'll notice I said 'Most games'.  :afroman:

But as evidenced, most games you've played only made it past half the demo. :X
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2015, 10:20:29 am
But as evidenced, most games you've played only made it past half the demo. :X

Talking about mobile games?

I've nearly finished Hitman GO and KotOR on my phone, and have played through about half of Metal Slug, Angry Birds etc etc.
I don't think it's accurate to say I only played the demo of most mobile games, and I've openly explained why I didn't play Chain Chronicle.

Let's not spill the Sonic Racing argument into this thread please Barry.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 29, 2015, 04:10:26 pm
Let's spill everything!

Crazy Taxi is not one button. But since it relies on gestures rather than virtual bottons, it's still pretty reliable
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2015, 04:59:42 pm
Let's spill everything!
*Spaghetti falls out of pockets*

Crazy Taxi is not one button. But since it relies on gestures rather than virtual bottons, it's still pretty reliable

Yeah it's basically temple run right? I don't really enjoy those games, but I know what you are talking about.
Begs the question though, why play City Rush on the big screen when you can play the real Crazy Taxi?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 29, 2015, 05:04:33 pm
(http://img.pandawhale.com/82733-why-dont-we-have-both-gif-YF1l.gif)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Kuronoa on May 29, 2015, 05:11:33 pm
Mixed.  There are certainly games I would play on one.  Mostly ports.  I don't own one yet.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 29, 2015, 05:24:13 pm
(http://img.pandawhale.com/82733-why-dont-we-have-both-gif-YF1l.gif)

Because City Rush looks like trash? I should actually play it before judging, but I really don't want to.
Because it looks like unfettered trash.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: DarthTsarkon on May 29, 2015, 06:21:23 pm
I suppose what I find interesting with the mobile market is its relation to the current state of console gaming. Looking at the technology available and a rather poor economy, you have to wonder if consoles are pretty much done. It is hitting a point that the new systems are computers so why not skip the middle man and PC game. The other issue is cost. This is where the casual side of the argument comes in. Some people can't afford the newer systems or PCs but they can afford a game on their smartphone. Most people have access to this type of technology so gaming with their phones make sense. Cheaper games, cheaper investment, and endless indie "studios"making plenty of games.


The squeeze is on for consoles as mobile gaming continues to gain traction. I dunno, maybe if Sega starts manufacturing smartphones I'll start looking more into them...
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on May 29, 2015, 09:46:42 pm
Personally it wouldn't surprise me if the upcoming Windows 10 integration with certain Xbox One/Xbox Live features is part of a long-term exit strategy from Xbox being a hardware-based console to more of an identity of a PC service.

However, I will say this - the notion that smartphones are cheaper than consoles is in many cases just an illusion, as the cost of the phone is built into a person's phone contract and paid over time. Some smartphones are quite a bit more expensive than a console. (And who knows, the games could potentially be more expensive if someone can't control themselves. But that can be true of any platform's games with DLC and microtransactions.)
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 29, 2015, 09:48:10 pm
Because City Rush looks like trash? I should actually play it before judging, but I really don't want to.
Because it looks like unfettered trash.
City Rush is deeper than the originals.
You unlock shit, customize shit, compete in leaderboards, complete challenges for limited time taxi parts, drive your friends taxis, git gud
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: DarthTsarkon on May 30, 2015, 01:09:00 am
However, I will say this - the notion that smartphones are cheaper than consoles is in many cases just an illusion, as the cost of the phone is built into a person's phone contract and paid over time. Some smartphones are quite a bit more expensive than a console. (And who knows, the games could potentially be more expensive if someone can't control themselves. But that can be true of any platform's games with DLC and microtransactions.)


Interesting point. That illusion is a strong one as I don't think most people really understand how much they really pay for their brand new phone. Plus, a phone is a must for most of us so most people just think of it as a necessity with some added bonuses so cost isn't that big of a deal. A console, despite Microsoft's attempts to make an all in one item, isn't a must have.



Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 30, 2015, 07:21:55 am

I still love to play some Heroes of Might and Magic 2 on my tablet when I am on the go, but when I am home I'd rather just play on my PC.
Well yeah, its mobile gaming, made for on the go, same as handheld gaming which has existed for almost as long as console gaming. It's not console or PC that mobile is going to replaced, I don't think anyone thinks that... It's handhelds, like the Nintendo DS and Playstation Vita which are under threat from phones and tablets that can play games just as well and do so much more.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 30, 2015, 09:31:02 am
Personally it wouldn't surprise me if the upcoming Windows 10 integration with certain Xbox One/Xbox Live features is part of a long-term exit strategy from Xbox being a hardware-based console to more of an identity of a PC service.

However, I will say this - the notion that smartphones are cheaper than consoles is in many cases just an illusion, as the cost of the phone is built into a person's phone contract and paid over time. Some smartphones are quite a bit more expensive than a console. (And who knows, the games could potentially be more expensive if someone can't control themselves. But that can be true of any platform's games with DLC and microtransactions.)

They are more expensive, but as Sharky said, you don't buy a mobile JUST for games. It's a device that lets you talk to people, text, skype, watch videos, check emails, surf the web and play games and it fits in your pocket. It's much more valuable to most people than a console.
City Rush is deeper than the originals.
You unlock shit, customize shit, compete in leaderboards, complete challenges for limited time taxi parts, drive your friends taxis, git gud

In terms of gameplay? I couldn't care less about paint jobs and upgrades.
I doubt it has the same finesse required to dash, drift, limiter cut, and pick the best route through the city.

Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on May 30, 2015, 11:42:25 am
Quote from: MadeManG74 link=topic=3604.msg77916#msg77916 date
In terms of gameplay? I couldn't care less about paint jobs and upgrades.
I doubt it has the same finesse required to dash, drift, limiter cut, and pick the best route through the city.
I didn't say the gameplay was better. It's better if you're on the go, or are starting to play videogames
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 30, 2015, 02:05:05 pm
I didn't say the gameplay was better. It's better if you're on the go, or are starting to play videogames

You said it was deeper than the originals.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Moody on May 30, 2015, 02:09:02 pm
How about not judging a game's gameplay until you actually play it?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on May 30, 2015, 02:11:23 pm
When it comes to temple run style games I will admit I don't see the appeal... Including Crazy Taxi id much rather have a 'proper' one... Then again I also don't see the appeal of sports games, I'd much rather go outside and play sports... Doesn't mean much though, there are plenty of other genres on console... and plenty of other genres on mobile.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: George on May 30, 2015, 04:06:48 pm
Seems like someone else is joining the mobile market. Itagaki (Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive and Devil's Third):

Quote
Itagaki gave an interview to People's Daily Overseas Edition Japan Monthly, and said some pretty funny things. To note, this is a Japanese edition of a China newspaper, so keep in mind that his comments are likely intended to be for readers who have an interest in China-centric news.

When asked about the future of Valhalla Studios, he said that they're currently committed to finishing Devil's Third on WiiU, but after it ships, they'll be developing mobile games. He goes on to talk about mobile gaming culture in China, and how it is a huge market which has a strong social culture. He hopes to tie-in with Chinese companies in future to take full advantage of the growing market there.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1054433
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on May 30, 2015, 04:48:27 pm
How about not judging a game's gameplay until you actually play it?

I admitted I haven't played it, but I can still say it 'looks' bad. It's an infinite runner.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Tad on June 09, 2015, 04:24:25 am
*draws sword and points it to the sky*

NEVER!!
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on June 09, 2015, 05:12:20 am
You said it was deeper than the originals.
The originals are pure arcade games. There is no progression. Nothing to achieve but a high score. They have deeper gameplay, but the game itself isn't deep at all.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 09, 2015, 06:23:14 am
City Rush isn't an endless runner. Stages have set goals and time limits. There are time extensions but you won't be playing endlessly.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 09, 2015, 08:17:27 am
The originals are pure arcade games. There is no progression. Nothing to achieve but a high score. They have deeper gameplay, but the game itself isn't deep at all.

To me the gameplay is the game though.

Aesthetic fluff like paint-jobs and Hulk Hogan DLC isn't deep compared to the gameplay techniques. I know what you mean though, the games don't have much content.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 09, 2015, 09:02:49 am
I don't think crackdude was referring to aesthetic fluff, I think he was referring to City Rush's progression and missions, which are more fleshed out than the arcade games. In that sense, I can see how he would call the game deeper in the gameplay department. The games are both very different though, so I wouldn't take "deeper gameplay" as meaning "City Rush is the better game".
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on June 09, 2015, 09:15:26 am
I wouldn't take "deeper gameplay" as meaning "City Rush is the better game".
Basically this.

Thanks Barry, I was having some trouble with the language barrier.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 09, 2015, 10:19:32 am
It has more content is what you are saying?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on June 09, 2015, 11:00:23 am
Yes. It has actual objectives, progression.
You not only get to customize your cab, there is a huge number of different cabs with different characteristics and everyone has several upgradeable parts that influence gameplay. You unlock new cities, objectives... Hell, the game has a storyline and some chapters are genuinely funny.

All this in a free game with (simplified) arcade fashion gameplay. If you want to spend a whole hour in it they charge you like.. a buck or two.
I really don't have a problem with this. It's mobile gaming done right. Sega's mobile games are VERY good, and show off Sega's heritage best than say...Alien Isolation. Because Sega is all about the quick but meaningful experiences.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Barry the Nomad on June 09, 2015, 11:02:47 am
It has more content, stage progression, and more variation in missions. But the arcade Crazy Taxi games have more free roaming controls and the crazy box missions. To me, the games are too different to be compared, they're both good and City Rush stays true to the Crazy Taxi formula.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 09, 2015, 11:13:28 am
It has more content, stage progression, and more variation in missions. But the arcade Crazy Taxi games have more free roaming controls and the crazy box missions. To me, the games are too different to be compared, they're both good and City Rush stays true to the Crazy Taxi formula.

How can it be too different to be comparable, but stay true to the formula?
Because Sega is all about the quick but meaningful experiences.

Hmmmmmmm I dunno. What about their old RPGs like Phantasy Star and Shining Force?
Is Shenmue not representative of Sega? Skies of Arcadia?
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Centrale on June 09, 2015, 11:14:17 am
It sounds like those aspects would be great additions to Crazy Taxi proper! It's just too bad that with mobile it's always an either/or situation. You get some cool new aspects, and you completely throw away all the established stuff that's taken decades to develop in the process.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on June 09, 2015, 01:50:16 pm
How can it be too different to be comparable, but stay true to the formula?

Hmmmmmmm I dunno. What about their old RPGs like Phantasy Star and Shining Force?
Is Shenmue not representative of Sega? Skies of Arcadia?
Play it, and you'll understand. It is really well made, it just controls differently.

They are, indeed, masterpieces. They really breathe Sega. But you'll agree these games are a minority. Sega's main focus has always been the arcade-like experiences.
I'd love a "normal" SP Phantasy Star really..
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: crackdude on June 09, 2015, 01:53:02 pm
It sounds like those aspects would be great additions to Crazy Taxi proper! It's just too bad that with mobile it's always an either/or situation. You get some cool new aspects, and you completely throw away all the established stuff that's taken decades to develop in the process.
Because they are to play...mobile-ly..
It would be awesome to have Crazy Taxi 4 with all those additions. But truth is that these games don't sell on consoles. Sega would be better off just making more Phantasy Star or Yakuza on consoles, and leave these experiences where people enjoy them, mobiles and arcades.
(I would argue they should all come out on PC anyway tho)

It's a transitional phase.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Sharky on June 09, 2015, 01:58:40 pm
It sounds like those aspects would be great additions to Crazy Taxi proper! It's just too bad that with mobile it's always an either/or situation. You get some cool new aspects, and you completely throw away all the established stuff that's taken decades to develop in the process.

I agree with this... City Rush adds a lot to flesh out Crazy Taxi and it has some great ideas and style. But I would prefer the gameplay of the original games.
Title: Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
Post by: Ryudo on June 09, 2015, 05:36:43 pm
No. I don't even consider them real games. To me it doesn't exist.