SEGAbits Forums

Off Topic => Everything Else => Topic started by: Aki-at on May 07, 2011, 06:18:23 am

Title: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Aki-at on May 07, 2011, 06:18:23 am
The son of Thatcher

(http://http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2010/10/david_cameron_1292386c.jpg)

vs

The son of Brown

(http://http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00422/Ed_Miliband__422266t.jpg)

FIGHT!

Since there has been a lot of political discussion going on recently here on SEGAbits (And some major news such as the SNP winning a majority in Scotland, who may want to go for Scottish independence now) it's probably best we open up this thread. I'm sure they'll be many punches and blows but let's try not to fall into the usual hyperboles sprouted by people on the left or right, okay? Great!
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on May 07, 2011, 06:28:58 am
Talk about how Aki's uncle got done up by US government.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Aki-at on May 07, 2011, 06:44:39 am
Quote from: "George"
Talk about how Aki's uncle got done up by US government.

Kept telling him to buy a 360 over a PS3, but he wanted to play Flower so badly : (
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: cube_b3 on May 07, 2011, 02:42:07 pm
I am assuming this is where George got the uncle joke he's throwing around so often.

[youtube:2hu112lb]9I4CsR591FM[/youtube:2hu112lb]
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on May 08, 2011, 04:08:23 pm
I gotta say, there's a couple of pretty good Republican candidates rolling up.

Herman Cain and Bill Pawlenty are looking pretty good. But Paul Ryan is another looker, hope he runs too.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Autosaver on May 08, 2011, 06:15:24 pm
Wow, that girl is such a cry baby. I wouldn't start crying if someone cracked a joke about my race/religion.

/nuff said
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on May 08, 2011, 11:56:01 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
I gotta say, there's a couple of pretty good Republican candidates rolling up.

Herman Cain and Bill Pawlenty are looking pretty good. But Paul Ryan is another looker, hope he runs too.

Paul Ryan is terrible, the mans' budget plan attacks social programs that he himself benefited from. The man wants to destroy and defund social programs yet the only reason he was able to afford college was because some of the programs he attacks, like social security, paid out to him because his father died when he was young. He is selfish, hypocritical and furthermore, he opposes unions.

Also tax cuts for the rich don't work; A policy that both Pawlenty and Ryan support. A company never hires more workers than it needs, regardless of how many tax cuts you give them they will only hire what they need. General Electric paid no taxes in the US this year, they got a giant $3.2 billion dollar rebate, so you say wow, not only did they not get taxed they got free money. Let's see how many jobs America gained out of that deal.... Negative 18,000, yup in the same tax period they laid off 18,000 American workers.

 American companies during 2000-2010 decreased their American workforces by 2.9 million whilst increasing overseas workforces by 2.4 million. So clearly, the trickle down theory has failed America, not that it ever worked in the first place.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: cube_b3 on May 09, 2011, 12:12:03 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-b ... e-13509975 (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-blame-game-13509975)

BALLS OF STEEL!
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on May 09, 2011, 01:33:36 pm
@Taro

The concept of taxing the wealthy is sorta of a muddled one, because there's no genuine profile of what constitutes a wealthy person. It serves only the purpose to create social envy and that's the best jailbait that any politician wants.

Only in the sense that if you can convince people that if you'll vote for them under the false pretense that they will continue to live their lifes without any consessions and that the wealthy, so to speak, will pay it for them, since, according to popular belief, they were responsible for the meltdown.

Corporations don't hire exactly hire when they need to, but a flexible labour market makes it accessible for a company to hire a number of people over time and let them go when they are no longer required, since changes in corporate structure are a given, layoffs and hiring are a natural part of the system.

Yes, jobs are being created overseas, but in that case, President Obama's decision to drill on Brazil, while the oil reserves in US soil just sit there is not exactly helping the situation.

But getting back to the wealthy, the rich will always get a bigger tax cut, because even with tax cuts they still pay more than the average citizen, which is roughly 70% of the american working class.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on May 09, 2011, 04:37:44 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
The concept of taxing the wealthy is sorta of a muddled one, because there's no genuine profile of what constitutes a wealthy person. It serves only the purpose to create social envy and that's the best jailbait that any politician wants.

Not really, there is a cause and effect and many who gain wealth, particularly within a corporate structure, do so by taking advantage of the lower economic classes (employees within their company). As such they should have to pay back into the system,a reasonable amount, to help provide for these individuals.

Quote
Only in the sense that if you can convince people that if you'll vote for them under the false pretense that they will continue to live their lifes without any consessions and that the wealthy, so to speak, will pay it for them, since, according to popular belief, they were responsible for the meltdown.

I don't completely understand this, I apologize. I assume however you are saying that I want the rich to be the only taxed people? No, that isn't the case, I just want them to pay their fair share per capita. America has severe income disparity between the rich and poor, and this can be resolved through taxing.

Quote
Corporations don't hire exactly hire when they need to, but a flexible labour market makes it accessible for a company to hire a number of people over time and let them go when they are no longer required, since changes in corporate structure are a given, layoffs and hiring are a natural part of the system.

A flexible market is required but yet again there should be safeguards in place for employees, like unemployment insurance for example. Also, unions don't harm a markets' flexibility, lay offs can still occur, and have (to unions) during this economic downturn.

Quote
Yes, jobs are being created overseas, but in that case, President Obama's decision to drill on Brazil, while the oil reserves in US soil just sit there is not exactly helping the situation.

President Obama is a conservative, lets be clear here; Very few Democrats in the US are liberal, and Obama isn't one of them: Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, Joe Sestak, Peter DeFazio, Merkley, Wyden, Bernie Sanders, those are liberals. Obama has continued most of Bush's policies or made them worse, like the wiretapping, or the Private Military Corps., or the unmanned drones. He is a terrible president, absolutely terrible, just like Bush was.

Quote
But getting back to the wealthy, the rich will always get a bigger tax cut, because even with tax cuts they still pay more than the average citizen, which is roughly 70% of the american working class.

In America the 400 richest people in the US, the top 400 according to Forbes has a net worth of $1.37 trillion dollars. The bottom 60% of the country, the poorest households, have $1.26 trillion dollars. The fact that 400 people in the US have more wealth than the lowest 184 million Americans is inexcusable. I don't see how one can see this disparity and propose that taxes on the rich should not be raised to assist in resolving America's multiple finance issues.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on May 10, 2011, 04:04:29 am
@Taro

Quote
I don't completely understand this, I apologize. I assume however you are saying that I want the rich to be the only taxed people? No, that isn't the case, I just want them to pay their fair share per capita. America has severe income disparity between the rich and poor, and this can be resolved through taxing.

I don 't think taxation is going to decrease the disparity between said groups. On the contrary, the lower classes are always the ones who will really suffer with tax increases.

Quote
In America the 400 richest people in the US, the top 400 according to Forbes has a net worth of $1.37 trillion dollars. The bottom 60% of the country, the poorest households, have $1.26 trillion dollars. The fact that 400 people in the US have more wealth than the lowest 184 million Americans is inexcusable. I don't see how one can see this disparity and propose that taxes on the rich should not be raised to assist in resolving America's multiple finance issues.
Most of the financial issues that the US currentlty have is precisely due to large spending and increasing the size of the public sector (which was already pretty big pre-Obama), which has placed a heavy burden on the average taxpayer.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 17, 2011, 01:35:33 am
Anthony Wiener shouldn't have resigned; And Bump!
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: SOUP on June 17, 2011, 10:08:52 am
I'm really surprised such a big deal was made out of this. He didn't do anything illegal.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 17, 2011, 11:21:40 am
This isn't exactly a major news item, so to speak, but the citizens don't want elected officials that are pervs and cheating on their wives through social networks. When you're in public office, you basically expect them to act like saints.

It's happened to Mark Foley, John Edwards and others...
 
Though, I've seen people resign over far more trivial things, the German DefSec vacated his position because it was discovered that he had plagarized his college thesis almost 5 years ago. (http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12608083)


Anyway, Obama gets kudos for taking out Bin Laden, but the way the Lybia operation is going does not bode well for his re-election. You having no ground troops to actually assess the situation, because this might turn into Barack Obama's Iran-Contra if he's not careful.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 17, 2011, 04:31:38 pm
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Anthony Wiener shouldn't have resigned; And Bump!
Yeah, I don't give a shit and most people I know don't give a fuck that he showed his dick to some tramp online. Dude is fucking ace in my book and I think the media are blowing and acting like its bigger than it is.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 17, 2011, 04:35:25 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
This isn't exactly a major news item, so to speak, but the citizens don't want elected officials that are pervs and cheating on their wives through social networks. When you're in public office, you basically expect them to act like saints.

It's happened to Mark Foley, John Edwards and others...


But that is the thing, it was the corporate media and the republicans and democrats that pressured him out, over 2/3 of his constituents wanted him to remain in office according to polling. He should have. There was no outcry from voters for him to leave office, and primarily because of a very good voting record that was very pro-middle class.

Furthermore, John Edwards had a child with another woman outside of his marriage whilst his wife was dying from a cancer. Furthermore, he used campaign funds to support the situation, which is an actual violation of the law. Foley solicited sex from men who didn't reciprocate advances and actually complained about him, meaning there was a civil case of sexual harassment there, and that's breaking of the law.

Furthermore, Foley ran on a catholic family values platform, he promoted himself as anti-gay, and anti-abortion (amongst other catholic values). So he lied to voters. Anthony Wiener at no point ran on a Christian, or religious, family values platform.

@Soup, agreed

Quote from: "George"
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Anthony Wiener shouldn't have resigned; And Bump!
Yeah, I don't give a shit and most people I know don't give a fuck that he showed his dick to some tramp online. Dude is fucking ace in my book and I think the media are blowing and acting like its bigger than it is.

Yup, neither do I. His sex life is exclusively between him and the other consenting, adult, participants. It is nobody else's business. In Mark Foley's case the paiges weren't consenting.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 17, 2011, 05:15:30 pm
Funny that in politics, if a corporation gives you millions of dollars to sway your vote on some bill they want pass. No one cares. Its not a big deal. When the dude that called out people on their bullshit and accepting money from companies shows his dick to an adult woman online. Bam: He has to be thrown out of office.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 17, 2011, 06:58:27 pm
@TaroYamada

If we assume then, that he ran for office promoting ethics and transparency, then I guess, lying over the fact that this was all a hoax and that his Twitter account had been hacked, I guess resignation saves him the trouble of having to have an ethics probe into the matter.

One minor correction, though, the Republican congressman that you are referring to is not the same as Mark Foley.
Mark Foley ran into a lot of heat, because there were some e-mails exchanges between him and his Page, that were said to have innapropriate comments, this was in 2006.

The incident you're referring to is from former Idaho Senator Larry Craig, later in 2007.

Here's the police report on what Senator Craig did (http://http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/craig_police_report_082807.pdf) and... it's just plain weird. Normally when people solicit sex or something they ussually make some offer, not prod with your fingers around like a senile old coot.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 17, 2011, 11:05:37 pm
No I mean Foley, he made contact with a number of young male pages. In this specific case the page was underage, A.K.A. a minor:

http://http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 17, 2011, 11:58:04 pm
What is unethical about showing you cock to a woman that wants to see it?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 18, 2011, 05:43:42 am
@George

You should ask his wife on that.

Because that's the problem, exchaging IM messages like the ones TaroYamada posted on the ABC article and trading dirty photos might be amusing when you're in college, but when your in office pushing 50 or 60 and married, it is downright creepy.

________________________________________________________________________________
And to answer the question, yes, lewd conduct under US law is not only seen as an ethics violation, it could have criminal implications.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 18, 2011, 03:54:03 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
@George

You should ask his wife on that.

Because that's the problem, exchaging IM messages like the ones TaroYamada posted on the ABC article and trading dirty photos might be amusing when you're in college, but when your in office pushing 50 or 60 and married, it is downright creepy.

________________________________________________________________________________
And to answer the question, yes, lewd conduct under US law is not only seen as an ethics violation, it could have criminal implications.

Showing your dick online isn't illegal in the US, the only law he may have violated was a minor one; One of the pictures he took was in the Congressional gym, so he took it on public property. That might be illegal. They were looking into before he resigned. If it is illegal then it is a minor violation.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 18, 2011, 04:04:02 pm
That is between his wife and him. Not us. What next? Can't serve office because I had an argument with my mom?

Funny how in America, showing your cock to a woman of age is considered lewd, thus you're thrown out of office. But the founding fathers grew pot and had orgies.

Feels bad, man.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 18, 2011, 09:21:25 pm
I don't think anybody gets thrown out of office, at least, not until after a bunch of public hearings and probes, that they conclude if there was any misconduct, which might result in prosecution and further disclosure of the issue.

Or you can assume that said person resigns because he felt he betrayed the people's trust.


Unlike, a certain PM who didn't resign after this video tape got leaked
[youtube:2egirppf]2nmIcGdlZiM[/youtube:2egirppf]
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Happy Cat on June 18, 2011, 09:35:15 pm
[youtube:2znl1qj5]fboyYv5Hwjg[/youtube:2znl1qj5]
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 19, 2011, 05:19:40 pm
"The GOP hates kids and old people" tagline really sells, I guess.

I would recommend reading this particular article on Portugal, this could be your future (http://http://www.cnbc.com/id/43306554), America.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 20, 2011, 04:46:29 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
"The GOP hates kids and old people" tagline really sells, I guess.

I would recommend reading this particular article on Portugal, this could be your future (http://http://www.cnbc.com/id/43306554), America.


Haha, except we have very few social programs compared to most developed European countries. We don't even have a national healthcare program for all citizens and our college education system is grossly underfunded. Sorry Max, but hopefully America ends up more along the lines of Germany. Which really is what most countries should be aiming for; A developed country with good, successful, social programs that has also managed to maintain its manufacturing base.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 20, 2011, 05:50:58 am
Or we can just be the America the founding fathers wanted us to be.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 20, 2011, 06:33:35 am
@TaroYamada

For a country that has very few social programs, I am amazed at the amount of money spent over the better part of the century.

But the case is indeed clear, a refusal to cut spending (specially a lot hidden costs), lower taxes, privatize corporations that have golden shares(a huge issue in Portugal), reduce the number of goverment branches (though kudos for the US, there's only 12 cabinets, compared to 16 cabinets of th previous administration), is enough to bankrupt a nation. It's happened with us.


@George

The founding fathers wanted the US to be founded on the following principle:

That are men were created equal and endowned by their Creator with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Those are the only things that can be considered a trully entitelments.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Aki-at on June 20, 2011, 08:41:30 am
Lowering taxes is a great way to go bankrupt too.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 20, 2011, 09:25:57 am
True, but in order for that to happen you would need to have a really big goverment-funded infrastructure, with lots of cabinet positions, public owned companies, public sector unions, tons of useless regulating bodies that are redundant, a ton of observatories that don't actually do nothing, a ton of state owned television network,state owned phones lines, state-owned energy sectors, subsidized crops,etc. And most of this is unprofitable (I'm speaking of Portugal's case, of course).

You need a lot of revenue (ie sales tax, corporate tax, VAT, Social Security, IRS and other local taxes) to keep this whole thing afloat and even then it still might not be enough.

You see, the labor regulation in Portugal also doesn't help, because it is impossible to fire anyone. Well, not impossible, but the necessary paperwork to do so, takes almost 4 months to fill out, since the State dictates the terms between employee and employer, and still not get anywhere.

Also, the minimum wage for a full-time job is way above the market price, so many people either have part-time jobs (like me) or resort to become freelancers doing several odd jobs.

In order to keep many of the public sector jobs still going, of course, taxes are going to indeed keep getting higher.

Of course, there's always a catch, you see the newly elected Portuguese administration has pledged to cut spending, but taxes are going to increase to fill the treasury(VAT going to 25%) to make up for the loss. On the plus side, there's going to be some major changes in the labour market which will at least ease the pain.

The US already has some things right from the start: a very flexible market and a solid tax system(tax rates varies from state to state, though).
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Aki-at on June 20, 2011, 10:44:44 am
But if you gain money from cutting all that and then lose money from lowering taxes, you are not exactly sloving the problem, you are just stalling it.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 20, 2011, 04:07:35 pm
Quote from: "max_cady"
Max's large post

I get those issues, but bottom line is Germany has achieved social programs, with affordable college education, and well devised healthcare system. All while keeping unemployment low, and quality of life high. Even through this worldwide recession.

(http://http://1111now.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/i-want-you-to-disagree-and-fight-amongst-each-other.jpg)

Quote from: "George"
Or we can just be the America the founding fathers wanted us to be.

Slave owning and wife beating? Don't get me wrong, the constitution has a ton of stuff I agree with, but the founding fathers weren't infallible.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 20, 2011, 05:31:39 pm
@TaroYamada
The problem with Germany is that it risks getting dragged down under, since it's lending money to Portugal, Greece and Ireland, to which they can't possibly pay back. And yes, I give kudos to Chanceller Angela Merkell, she rebuilt the bridge that Schroder had burned down during the early Bush years.


However, Germany is but one country in an immense European Union that still needs several reforms, before it can trully be a giant.
Spain's economy was crippled by too many entitelments programs and a green industry that hid many of it's real costs.
The only downside on Germany, like most of the European nations right now,is that freedom of speech is hindered by too much PC mentality (http://http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-761077.html).
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 21, 2011, 01:13:10 am
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Slave owning and wife beating? Don't get me wrong, the constitution has a ton of stuff I agree with, but the founding fathers weren't infallible.
Yes, they owned slaves. But you make it seem like it was taboo back then. There are still slaves in this world, its me and you. We have to jump through hoops while big corporations pay off politicians to pass a law that will screw us over more and more.

Yes, I'm  sure the politics of the founding fathers where to beat your wife.  :| Seriously?

That is like me taking your German comment and say "KILL ALL JEWS?!" Why are you so quick to point out something negative?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 21, 2011, 03:22:07 am
Quote from: "George"
Yes, they owned slaves. But you make it seem like it was taboo back then. There are still slaves in this world, its me and you. We have to jump through hoops while big corporations pay off politicians to pass a law that will screw us over more and more.

Yes, I'm  sure the politics of the founding fathers where to beat your wife.  :| Seriously?

That is like me taking your German comment and say "KILL ALL JEWS?!" Why are you so quick to point out something negative?

Wife beating rather states the position of the American government to not grant women the right to vote, and ignore providing them basic, other, rights. At the time of course. Your jew comment makes no sense as I referenced Germany under the modern era, which isn't exactly neo-nazi. Where as the era discussed for the United States was one of great inequality for women versus men.

I cannot believe I am forced into playing the role of a feminist right now, especially as I am openly a male chauvinist.

Quote from: "max_cady"
@TaroYamada
The problem with Germany is that it risks getting dragged down under, since it's lending money to Portugal, Greece and Ireland, to which they can't possibly pay back. And yes, I give kudos to Chanceller Angela Merkell, she rebuilt the bridge that Schroder had burned down during the early Bush years.


However, Germany is but one country in an immense European Union that still needs several reforms, before it can trully be a giant.
Spain's economy was crippled by too many entitelments programs and a green industry that hid many of it's real costs.
The only downside on Germany, like most of the European nations right now,is that freedom of speech is hindered by too much PC mentality (http://http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-761077.html).

I get that it is having issues with providing welfare to other EU member states, I am sure however, that given their judgment thus far, they will be conservative with their loans and ensure their stability first and foremost. As for the freedom of speech issue, I am well aware Germany isn't perfect, but they aren't particularly bad. Furthermore the example you provided will go nowhere in a court of law, though it is ridiculous that it even happened.

Still, I'd rather we have that happening in the United States than this vilification of government whistleblowers like Thomas Drake, or people who provide means for whistleblowers to whistleblow more easily. Namely a certain Julian Assange.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 21, 2011, 04:09:10 am
Except that the EU in it's current model is prone to fail miserably. Even though it establishes a good free trade zone, it still suffers with too much proteccionism and high taxation.

You see when, in the old Europe, whenever a nation became bankrupt they would essentially update their currency, but with the EU having a centralized monetary policy, there's a good change that it cannot do so.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 21, 2011, 06:09:05 pm
I don't mind the progressive things. I just think we shouldn't be all over the world and fighting wars, letting companies have tax loop holes to screw our economy. Women shouldn't vote either.

All is right.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 22, 2011, 04:42:28 am
Well, that is also one of the fundamental flaws in the Keynesian mindset, to think that things like public works and war help the economy in any way, shape or form. Even the famous broken window story is just not pratical in real life.

Nobody necessarily is for war, I can understand the overal plans for Iraq and Afganistan, which technically are now officially over. The Lybia war front will most likely be Obama's downfall, because of several reasons:



Just one little pet peeve of mine: If Presient Obama is willing to show his birth certificate (and only because Trump asked), yet photos of Bin Laden are taboos. Over-inflated ego, much?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on June 23, 2011, 04:14:58 am
No one wants to go to war? Yes, the people that profit from war, want to go to war. The soldiers that trained hard want to go to war.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 24, 2011, 05:17:50 am
There are four things that many people think that help jump start the economy:
-War;
-Natural disasters;
-Street crime(vandalism and theft);
-Public Works;

None of them have any positive effect. While WW2 is widely considered an exception, it brought an undesired consequence: the birth of the European entitelment mentality.

Yet, war, often times, is inevitable.

On a side note, since we talk about the forebearers and the founding fathers, I read up recentely on the Boston massacre in 1770...Powerful stuff.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: Happy Cat on June 24, 2011, 09:48:47 pm
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp)
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 26, 2011, 05:37:02 pm
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp)


Isn't that the opposite of the other place that also doesn't exist?  :P
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: SOUP on June 26, 2011, 07:05:46 pm
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp)
I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. (The gay marriage thing, not the hell bit).
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 27, 2011, 04:35:58 am
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp)


Isn't that the opposite of the other place that also doesn't exist?  :P

Yeah lol, those idiots who believe New York is real. Empire State buildings and diners? People didn't actually fall for that crap did they?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 27, 2011, 09:03:34 am
Oh,no! New York is going to turn into Joel Schumacher's Gotham City. Head for the hills!
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 27, 2011, 03:22:07 pm
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp)


Isn't that the opposite of the other place that also doesn't exist?  :P

Yeah lol, those idiots who believe New York is real. Empire State buildings and diners? People didn't actually fall for that crap did they?


(http://http://i.imgur.com/WcPu0.jpg)
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 27, 2011, 03:52:57 pm
Did that guy imply that the Bible is like a fable?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on June 28, 2011, 05:03:17 am
Quote from: "max_cady"
Did that guy imply that the Bible is like a fable?


3. a story about supernatural or extraordinary persons or incidents; legend: the fables of gods and heroes.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: MadeManG74 on June 28, 2011, 05:40:54 am
I was going to keep the troll factor up, but I think I should be sensible.

We've had these threads before, there's no need for atheists or religious people to try to force their beliefs onto others. If you do feel the need to discuss it, I think there is still a religion thread floating around somewhere.
Lets keep one contentious topic per thread, shall we?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on June 28, 2011, 05:52:18 am
True, sorry about that.
Update: I would just like to add a little sidenote the discussions about religion these days are not so much about people shoving their beleifs onto others, nope it is no longer the case. It has been essentially a one-sided debate about questioning one's beliefs and how religion is at the heart of all problems in the world. Preaching reason and clear thinking, yet not actually doing it. And that's all I am going to say, as far as I care about the matter.

There's a couple of other political stuff that we could cover...

Greece's insane financial problem...

Blagovich's indictment...

Portugal's new goverment, who hopes to turn the country around and reduce the size of goverment.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on July 14, 2011, 04:17:00 am
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/12/manning&source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Not%20Premium%29_7_30_110 (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/12/manning&source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Not%20Premium%29_7_30_110)

Opinions?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: George on July 14, 2011, 04:33:00 am
Typing stuff in big font and exaggerating situations isn't going to make you seem more logical.

Of course the US violated the rules, they should have consequences. Should have been brought up way sooner.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on August 05, 2011, 03:57:03 pm
Sorry if it sounds that way, George, but I didn't put the font that big... Nor I edited it in 1969.

The font is at 99px!? I had it at 8px or less.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on September 02, 2011, 08:53:12 pm
(http://images2.dailykos.com/i/user/191280/gopeconomicstrategy2.png)

Looks like Keynesian economics have some more supporting evidence.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on September 03, 2011, 06:41:31 pm
I'm assuming those are CBO numbers. Lord knows their methodology is flawless.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: nuckles87 on September 14, 2011, 12:26:21 pm
No. Those are official universally accepted employment numbers released from the bureau of labor statistics each month. Congressional Budget Office doesn't announce past numbers, it predicts future numbers, which are also typically accepted universally, but whatever. That's not relevant here anyway.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on September 14, 2011, 01:41:31 pm
Even when the CBO director publicly casts doubts over their own reports?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: SOUP on September 14, 2011, 02:20:55 pm
The provincial election campaign's in full swing here.
I'm a bit undecided on who I'm going to vote for, so I took an opportunity to do some volunteering alongside the local NDP candidate. Size them up a bit, and get an idea of who I might be voting for.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: tarpmortar on September 14, 2011, 03:10:27 pm
The provincial election campaign's in full swing here.
I'm a bit undecided on who I'm going to vote for, so I took an opportunity to do some volunteering alongside the local NDP candidate. Size them up a bit, and get an idea of who I might be voting for.

Quit volunteering : ( you make me feel lazy. Which I am lazy, but I don't like to be reminded, haha.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: SOUP on September 15, 2011, 08:12:41 am
@TaroYamada: Sorry about that one :D.

I probably won't be volunteering quite as much as I did in the federal election (ie: booking off a work day to put in 13 hours of non-stop working for free).
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: SOUP on October 07, 2011, 08:43:02 am
The provincial election was yesterday.
The Liberals are one seat shy of a majority government. Not really a bad thing, as I don't see any of the parties pushing for another election any time soon.
I see some Liberal-NDP teamwork in the future, which is good as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on October 07, 2011, 05:17:54 pm
So guys any thoughts on the "Ocupy Wall Street" movement?

Not sure if the message of the movement is all that clear, feeling good over the possibility of rich people getting taxed more is not really going to help their situation.

They are arguing against misuse of public funds especially with bailouts which is a legitimate complaint that touches both sides, this is puzzling, however, because both stimulus (Bush and Obama's) involved "saving" or investing wads of cash on many companies that went bankrupt anyway or had absolutely no effect, shouldn't they also direct their rage towards the administration or Congress that fowarded these handouts in the first place? If so, they are 3 years late.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: jonboy101 on October 29, 2011, 11:23:02 am
Stimulus added or saved millions of jobs, the bailouts prevented financial armeggedon. Had it not been for TARP, America would look like a mad max film. Occupy Wall Street are a bunch of uninformed, but well meaning, people who are too dumb to realize America is getting exactly what it voted for for the last decade.
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: max_cady on October 30, 2011, 10:58:08 am
Solyndra laid off about a thousand workers, so how exactly does that work in terms of saving or creating jobs?
Title: Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
Post by: jonboy101 on October 30, 2011, 11:25:32 am
You don't honestly think seven hundred billion went to solyndra do you? There's bound to be a bum ticker when you're prime pumping a quarter of the worlds economy.

Stimulus saved jobs by giving state government the resources to prevent mass layoffs, by providing tax cuts for middle and low income families to stimulate demand and by funding or incentivizing companies to create jobs by giving them stuff to do.

When the public stops buying stuff, the government should to keep up aggregate demand. Standard economics.

Problem was the stimulus wasn't large enough by any stretch of the imagination. Funds have worn out, so now state governments are having to choose between tax hikes or spending cuts. State governments have to have balanced budgets, as per their local constitutions. It's foolishness, and it's suppressing employment. Private sector job growth has recovered a year ago. Now the public sector is throwing up jobs left and right thanks to this retarded idea that austerity is a good idea during an economic crisis.