Author Topic: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!  (Read 129178 times)

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #495 on: October 05, 2023, 08:34:05 pm »
Compile Heart (the studio made by ex-compile developers) will be collabing with SEGA to make a new Madou Monogatari game!







Quote
Here's concept art from the article.

Article : https://twitter.com/famitsu/status/1709840927874031941
Source : https://twitter.com/PuyoPuyo_Facts/status/1709858754856899016

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #496 on: October 05, 2023, 09:00:58 pm »
Satan has already renamed by SEGA of America as Dark Prince (or just Prince) so we can use that.



Lilith's name is not as controversial as Satan since lot of people's using that name.
Capcom didn't change Darkstalker's Lilith name to in western version eventhough they've changed the name of the werewolf, ancient robot, and merman.



But if you still want to change it, you can use how it's name pronounced in Japan : Ririsu (or just Riri).
Oh well that's fine then. Satan could simply be known as the Dark Prince and his wife was Lillith.
Puyo Puyo's Arle Fan Art by miyata__0529



Source : https://twitter.com/miyata__0529/status/1709132177701757066
I know I shouldn't because sorta loli but... dem hips!
Compile Heart (the studio made by ex-compile developers) will be collabing with SEGA to make a new Madou Monogatari game!







Article : https://twitter.com/famitsu/status/1709840927874031941
Source : https://twitter.com/PuyoPuyo_Facts/status/1709858754856899016
I never played the Madou games but it would be nice if they established more back lore to the overall Puyo Puyo lore.
I mean, from what I understand so far the "Puyoverse" consist of three separate worlds or parallel universes. (A triniverse"?)
  • Madou World, where Arle Nadja is from. Somewhat of a traditional fantasy world with some contemporary elements. Arle ventured through her first dungeon filled with dangerous monsters and traps... just to graduate kindergarten.
  • Primp Town, where Amitie is from. Primp Town seem to have some modern architecture here and there, but given magic is still a predominant element, such as a Magic School where students learn fantasy-like magic.
  • Suzuran, where Ringo Ando is from. Unlike Madou World and Primp town which are more fantasy-eccentric worlds that are well familiar with puyo, Suzuran seems to be either a fictional city in Japan or somewhere in Tokyo. Either way, not only is it confirmed to take place on a world much like Earth (going as far as specific places such as Loch Ness, Egypt, the Himalayas, Easter Island, Area 51, the Bermuda Triangle and Stonehenge). Not only that but this world did not have puyo as well as "puyo battles" until it was introduced in Puyo Puyo 7, making it a world much like ours.
I don't know if Primp Town is located on Madou World but Puyo Puyo 7 was the first game that crossed over these three worlds and regarded them separate. It wasn't until the Puyo Tetris games when dimensional routes were conveniently established between these three worlds for the friends to come and go as they please.

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #497 on: October 06, 2023, 01:47:16 am »
I know I shouldn't because sorta loli but... dem hips!

Wait... Arle could be categorized into loli? I never knew her age and I thought she was an adult.

I never played the Madou games but it would be nice if they established more back lore to the overall Puyo Puyo lore.
I mean, from what I understand so far the "Puyoverse" consist of three separate worlds or parallel universes. (A triniverse"?)
  • Madou World, where Arle Nadja is from. Somewhat of a traditional fantasy world with some contemporary elements. Arle ventured through her first dungeon filled with dangerous monsters and traps... just to graduate kindergarten.
  • Primp Town, where Amitie is from. Primp Town seem to have some modern architecture here and there, but given magic is still a predominant element, such as a Magic School where students learn fantasy-like magic.
  • Suzuran, where Ringo Ando is from. Unlike Madou World and Primp town which are more fantasy-eccentric worlds that are well familiar with puyo, Suzuran seems to be either a fictional city in Japan or somewhere in Tokyo. Either way, not only is it confirmed to take place on a world much like Earth (going as far as specific places such as Loch Ness, Egypt, the Himalayas, Easter Island, Area 51, the Bermuda Triangle and Stonehenge). Not only that but this world did not have puyo as well as "puyo battles" until it was introduced in Puyo Puyo 7, making it a world much like ours.
I don't know if Primp Town is located on Madou World but Puyo Puyo 7 was the first game that crossed over these three worlds and regarded them separate. It wasn't until the Puyo Tetris games when dimensional routes were conveniently established between these three worlds for the friends to come and go as they please.

I never played the Madou games too but we might play this one later since it's released by Compile, very high chance that it would get an english version and released on Steam too.
Unlike ones that stayed exclusively in some consoles and only available in Japanese.



So Ringo was the only one from earth?

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #498 on: October 06, 2023, 04:17:18 pm »
Wait... Arle could be categorized into loli? I never knew her age and I thought she was an adult.
Given Ringo Ando attends high school, I'd say the Puyo trio and their friends are roughly in their pre-teens. Maybe 12-15 or so.
Plus Arle was in kindergarten for her first adventure and some fan art still depict her rather young.
I never played the Madou games too but we might play this one later since it's released by Compile, very high chance that it would get an english version and released on Steam too.
Unlike ones that stayed exclusively in some consoles and only available in Japanese.



So Ringo was the only one from earth?
I think that game actually introduce a fourth world to puyo-lore, one where puyo battles fuciton similar to JRPG battles.

And yeah. I may not pau Puyo Puyo often but I watched videos of the cutscenes paste together into a film to understand the general story of it.

Arle and Amitie come from stereotypical fantasy worlds but we really don't know much of them. I mean we know Amitie live sin Primp Town and Primp Town seem to have more traditional architecture over fantasy. As for Arle, all we know of her is she attended kindergarten, a kindergarten that keeps a tower full of dungeons and expect students to reach the top of it to graduate. We don't know the name of Arle's hometown, family or anything else about her. All we do know is her world is dubbed "Madou World".

Puyo Puyo 7 however is set in a city much like Tokyo called "Suzuran" and in Act 3 of Puyo Puyo 7, Ringo has to have puyo battles at the "Seven Wonders of the World"... which conveniently there are trains services to these international locations which she takes. These places being Loch Ness, Egypt, the Himalayas, Easter Island, Area 51, the Bermuda Triangle and Stonehenge.
So the impression I got from Ringo Ando's world that while it has the cartoony logic of most Puyo Puyo games, Ringo's world is more like ours.

(This is why in my "Columns 4ever" idea, it takes place on Ringo's world but a long time a go.)

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #499 on: October 07, 2023, 02:30:59 pm »
The first of six "Columns 4ever" characters I'm working on.
Still WIP though.

https://sta.sh/0tsxcevsgnm (Will make profile pictures and post them)

Her name is Amethyst, while her nationality is Phoenician, she and her father are merchants who sail across the Mediterranean Sea doing business with neighbouring countries. Her father taught her of the magical game "Columns" and told her stories how the game was created by the merchants of Phoenicia.
"Columns 4ever" is just a hypothetical, fan-proposal idea for both a sequel to Columns III and adopting the Puyo-art style to make it a plausible part of the Puyo Puyo series.
The story in mind is Queen Dido, ruler of Carthage, accuses Amethyst father for stealing the crown jewels and has him imprisoned. Still being the fair queen she is, she allows Amethyst to prove his innocence by bringing the crown jewels back.
The real culprit is Surhand, the merchant queen of Phoenicia's black market. Her lackies secure the crown jewels to places across the Phoenician trade empire, such as Egypt, Greece and even far off places such as Arabia. (I might recast the Indian girl into a Roman girl to fit in more with the Greco-Roman theme. That and India is rather far away.)
While Amethyst is just as happy-go-lucky as most other Puyo Puyo characters usually are, she has a "Scrooge McDuck complex" in which she has a head for profit, the drive for treasure hunting and an avarice for gold and riches (I yet to choose her "spells" but her theme is gold coins and treasure. I would compare her avarice to that of a ferengi, but while she does have business sense comparable to a ferengi I find it hard to imagine she will let her greed get in the way of her relations with others.)
Despite her avarice, she is still a morally good person and kind-hearted girl. The five other characters I'm working on are the people she meet along her journey and become close friends with. (Kinda like the Mane six or the Super Hero Girls.)

I tried to emulate the Sega-era Puyo Puyo art style because while the Starship Tetra crew are Puyo Puyo characters that represent Tetris, I like to imagine my Columns OC to potentially be Puyo Puyo characters that represent Columns. They all live on Ringo Ando's Earth, but they lived in ancient times, so the only way the Columns characters and Puyo characters to meet would be time travel.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 02:42:27 pm by Mystic Monkey »

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #500 on: October 08, 2023, 10:11:38 pm »
The first of six "Columns 4ever" characters I'm working on.
Still WIP though.

https://sta.sh/0tsxcevsgnm (Will make profile pictures and post them)

Her name is Amethyst, while her nationality is Phoenician, she and her father are merchants who sail across the Mediterranean Sea doing business with neighbouring countries. Her father taught her of the magical game "Columns" and told her stories how the game was created by the merchants of Phoenicia.
"Columns 4ever" is just a hypothetical, fan-proposal idea for both a sequel to Columns III and adopting the Puyo-art style to make it a plausible part of the Puyo Puyo series.
The story in mind is Queen Dido, ruler of Carthage, accuses Amethyst father for stealing the crown jewels and has him imprisoned. Still being the fair queen she is, she allows Amethyst to prove his innocence by bringing the crown jewels back.
The real culprit is Surhand, the merchant queen of Phoenicia's black market. Her lackies secure the crown jewels to places across the Phoenician trade empire, such as Egypt, Greece and even far off places such as Arabia. (I might recast the Indian girl into a Roman girl to fit in more with the Greco-Roman theme. That and India is rather far away.)
While Amethyst is just as happy-go-lucky as most other Puyo Puyo characters usually are, she has a "Scrooge McDuck complex" in which she has a head for profit, the drive for treasure hunting and an avarice for gold and riches (I yet to choose her "spells" but her theme is gold coins and treasure. I would compare her avarice to that of a ferengi, but while she does have business sense comparable to a ferengi I find it hard to imagine she will let her greed get in the way of her relations with others.)
Despite her avarice, she is still a morally good person and kind-hearted girl. The five other characters I'm working on are the people she meet along her journey and become close friends with. (Kinda like the Mane six or the Super Hero Girls.)

I tried to emulate the Sega-era Puyo Puyo art style because while the Starship Tetra crew are Puyo Puyo characters that represent Tetris, I like to imagine my Columns OC to potentially be Puyo Puyo characters that represent Columns. They all live on Ringo Ando's Earth, but they lived in ancient times, so the only way the Columns characters and Puyo characters to meet would be time travel.

Oh, nice. The story sounds interesting too, her happy-go-lucky would prevent the story's getting to dark.
Since Amethyst lived in ancient times, would there be a twist like a Puyo Puyo / Columns Jewel character is a descendant of her or something in Puyo Puyo / Columns Jewel / Columns Crown was her legacy or something?

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #501 on: October 08, 2023, 11:04:17 pm »
Oh, nice. The story sounds interesting too, her happy-go-lucky would prevent the story's getting to dark.
Since Amethyst lived in ancient times, would there be a twist like a Puyo Puyo / Columns Jewel character is a descendant of her or something in Puyo Puyo / Columns Jewel / Columns Crown was her legacy or something?
I haven't even thought of the possibility of "descendants". I just figured it be nice if Columns got a game much like the modern Puyo Puyo games, but were not as bright and generic as them. Which is why I wanted to keep the "ancient world" theme, but still keeps the door wide open for a possible crossover with Puyo Puyo.


Though while the Puyo Puyo series has kept most of its classic-era characters, I can imagine my Columns World having characters from other Columns games.




(All Columns fan art by @Perosnasama.)

Let's talk about the "Columns continuity" for a bit and how I imagine "Columns 4ever" to fit into all of it.

Stack Columns is the first Columns game that deviated from the ancient world theme. It had a sort of "underground casino" theme along with the most strangest ending I've ever seen in a puzzle game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOjGZkckL0c

To me, Columns Crown was when they decided to just "make it all colourful and cutesy like Puyo Puyo and see if it sticks.", which it didn't. Because of this I was never fond of Columns Crown attempt and honestly glad it didn't stick because I really wouldn't want Sega to give up Columns "ancient world" theme for generic Puyo-fantasy schtick. If I "had" to include Columns Crown into my 4ever continuity, I'd rather it is a separate world thing, like how Arle Nadja and Amitie's worlds are separate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35aJVPJXFug

The lesser heard Columns Jewel which took cute character designs that Puyo Puyi is known for but kept the whole "ancient world" theme which I think pulled it off really well!
Columns Jewel would have probably revolutionised the Columns franchise... if t were not released exclusively released in Japan for i-mode 505i and EZweb (BREW 3.1) devices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__H-Kqt8Ns

I have not forgotten Culet and Cleopatra from Sega Ages Columns. While I can't imagine a role for Cleopatra in Columns 4ever, one of the characters I have planned idolize her.
(I can imagine Culet in how I imagine "Puyo Puyo × Columns" could work though.)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 11:41:40 pm by Mystic Monkey »

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #502 on: October 09, 2023, 02:04:16 am »
Columns Crown is probably the most played Columns game in the franchise (especially due to the fact that we had to collect 24 missing gems to get the true ending, the dialogues with enemies also alwways changing depended on how many missing gems we already acquired) so I kinda had a good spot for it.
The 24 magic gems' power that we could use tottaly revolutionize its 2P battle system into something as crazy as Tetris Axis or Puyo Puyo.
The protagonists may be too generic and forgetable but the enemies are funny and interesting that they fit well into Puyo Puyo storyline if they ever have cross-overed.

But you're right about the uniqueness of Columns are in its "ancient world" theme.
Taking away its uniqueness' like taking away its soul.



Also I really wish Columns had its crossover with Tetris instead of Puyo Puyo due to history.
SEGA bought Columns because they infamously lost the Tetris rights.



Source : https://www.pressreader.com/uk/retro-gamer/20190711/281599537055264

But of course Puyo Puyo x Tetris x Columns would be more ideal.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 02:06:11 am by Berto »

Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #503 on: October 09, 2023, 03:25:34 am »
Columns Crown is probably the most played Columns game in the franchise (especially due to the fact that we had to collect 24 missing gems to get the true ending, the dialogues with enemies also alwways changing depended on how many missing gems we already acquired) so I kinda had a good spot for it.
The 24 magic gems' power that we could use tottaly revolutionize its 2P battle system into something as crazy as Tetris Axis or Puyo Puyo.
The protagonists may be too generic and forgetable but the enemies are funny and interesting that they fit well into Puyo Puyo storyline if they ever have cross-overed.

But you're right about the uniqueness of Columns are in its "ancient world" theme.
Taking away its uniqueness' like taking away its soul.



Also I really wish Columns had its crossover with Tetris instead of Puyo Puyo due to history.
SEGA bought Columns because they infamously lost the Tetris rights.



Source : https://www.pressreader.com/uk/retro-gamer/20190711/281599537055264

But of course Puyo Puyo x Tetris x Columns would be more ideal.
I simply wish Sega would give more attention to Columns over Puyo Puyo. They "adopted" Puyo Puyo, Columns was their own. I get why Puyo Puyo x Tetris was made, Tetris is one of the most popular puzzle games out there, it is too golden of an opportunity for Sega to pass up. I just wish they would consider a Columns crossover as well.

But at the same time, it would be a loaded wish. We could end up with a "Puyo Puyo x Columns Crown" or maybe they would just make up entirely new characters little to do with the original lore like they did with Tetris. (Given Ringo Ando's world is more based on Earth, I would have made the Tetris characters come from Russia! I wouldn't even change their designs or anything, just give them Russian accents and their starship being a "space race" or something.)

This is why I'm making up my own "Columns OCs", because I got this "Columns 4ever" idea stuck in my head. I just know if Sega ever decides to make a Columns IV or a Puyo Puyo x Columns game they won't do it right.

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #504 on: October 09, 2023, 09:09:03 pm »
I simply wish Sega would give more attention to Columns over Puyo Puyo. They "adopted" Puyo Puyo, Columns was their own. I get why Puyo Puyo x Tetris was made, Tetris is one of the most popular puzzle games out there, it is too golden of an opportunity for Sega to pass up. I just wish they would consider a Columns crossover as well.

No, Columns wasn't SEGA's to begin with. They "adopted" Columns too from Jay Geertsen and Hewlett-Packard (HP).
Jay created it in X11 Windows System (Nathan Meyers then ported it to MS-DOS, and Chris Christensen to the Macintosh) as an exercise while at HP and it's based on TicTacToe.
Since Columns was made while he was at HP, HP owned it but they sold it back to Jay which then he sold it to SEGA when SEGA searched for puzzle game alternative (after they lost the Tetris rights to Nintendo).




But at the same time, it would be a loaded wish. We could end up with a "Puyo Puyo x Columns Crown" or maybe they would just make up entirely new characters little to do with the original lore like they did with Tetris. (Given Ringo Ando's world is more based on Earth, I would have made the Tetris characters come from Russia! I wouldn't even change their designs or anything, just give them Russian accents and their starship being a "space race" or something.)

This is why I'm making up my own "Columns OCs", because I got this "Columns 4ever" idea stuck in my head. I just know if Sega ever decides to make a Columns IV or a Puyo Puyo x Columns game they won't do it right.

Which one is more comforting ... "they won't do it right" or "they won't do it at all"
Considering SEGA Ages Columns II: The Voyage Through Time didn't sell well (eventough M2 put a lot of new contents in this game), I highly doubt SEGA would ressurect the franchise for now so it'll probably the later.









Not when Puyo Puyo (especially Puyo Puyo Quest for mobile) is still one of their biggest money maker.


Offline Mystic Monkey

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #505 on: October 10, 2023, 12:02:50 am »
No, Columns wasn't SEGA's to begin with. They "adopted" Columns too from Jay Geertsen and Hewlett-Packard (HP).
Jay created it in X11 Windows System (Nathan Meyers then ported it to MS-DOS, and Chris Christensen to the Macintosh) as an exercise while at HP and it's based on TicTacToe.
Since Columns was made while he was at HP, HP owned it but they sold it back to Jay which then he sold it to SEGA when SEGA searched for puzzle game alternative (after they lost the Tetris rights to Nintendo).

If the X11 was the bare-bones of Columns, maybe it was Sega that gave it its Phoenician origins?
Which one is more comforting ... "they won't do it right" or "they won't do it at all"
Considering SEGA Ages Columns II: The Voyage Through Time didn't sell well (eventough M2 put a lot of new contents in this game), I highly doubt SEGA would ressurect the franchise for now so it'll probably the later.









Not when Puyo Puyo (especially Puyo Puyo Quest for mobile) is still one of their biggest money maker.


It does suck they'll probably never do it at all.


And it's not like Tetris will adopt the PuyoxTetris OCs for themselves.

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #506 on: October 11, 2023, 09:46:40 am »
If the X11 was the bare-bones of Columns, maybe it was Sega that gave it its Phoenician origins?

I believe so. There are no Phoenician theme in other versions before SEGA's arcade version came along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPeJ5o8BgbU

It does suck they'll probably never do it at all.


And it's not like Tetris will adopt the PuyoxTetris OCs for themselves.

Not fair indeed, but money talks.


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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #507 on: October 11, 2023, 12:17:53 pm »
I believe so. There are no Phoenician theme in other versions before SEGA's arcade version came along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPeJ5o8BgbU
Looking at the history, you could still say that while Puyo and Columns are both adopted by Sega, Sega was the one that really made Columns it's own. I mean the Atari didn't had much market in UK and PCs were subpar at the time. And given how bare-bones Columns was I doubt it would had been famous at all. Sega only got the rights because they couldn't get Tetris.

Puyo Puyo on the other hand, it already established itself a popular puzzle game and unlike Tetis, Sega could and did buy the rights to it!

But unlike Puyo Puyo, Columns got popular because Sega marketed it efficiently and made it widely recognisable while the whole reaosn they wanted Tetris and Puyo was because they didn't had the confidence to make a marketable puzzle game for themselves.
Not fair indeed, but money talks.


It does. And money favours effective marketing.

This is why I don't like the idea of a Columns revival that just steal Puyo Puyo's thing.

...
I mean yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. I do want Columns to emulate the colourfulness and artstyle of Puyo Puyo to the point they're "cross-overable", all I want is the "ancient world" setting to be preserved, especially to be set in the Carthaginian Empire.

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #508 on: October 12, 2023, 12:04:38 am »
Looking at the history, you could still say that while Puyo and Columns are both adopted by Sega, Sega was the one that really made Columns it's own. I mean the Atari didn't had much market in UK and PCs were subpar at the time. And given how bare-bones Columns was I doubt it would had been famous at all. Sega only got the rights because they couldn't get Tetris.

Puyo Puyo on the other hand, it already established itself a popular puzzle game and unlike Tetis, Sega could and did buy the rights to it!

But unlike Puyo Puyo, Columns got popular because Sega marketed it efficiently and made it widely recognisable while the whole reaosn they wanted Tetris and Puyo was because they didn't had the confidence to make a marketable puzzle game for themselves.

Agree to disagree.
Even if SEGA didn't pick it up, another company would and it still could success with their themes.
Gameplay is still the core.
Just look at Tetris, no matter company who picked up, the game's usually sold well.



Also my first gaming system was PC and I did play and enjoy Columns back then.
There's also Columns-clone game called Wowtris (using PC MS DOS too torun) which gave cat-theme to Columns and it's more fun to play.
Too bad the game's dissapeared now, I can't find its trace anywhere, not even in the internet.

It does. And money favours effective marketing.

This is why I don't like the idea of a Columns revival that just steal Puyo Puyo's thing.

...
I mean yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. I do want Columns to emulate the colourfulness and artstyle of Puyo Puyo to the point they're "cross-overable", all I want is the "ancient world" setting to be preserved, especially to be set in the Carthaginian Empire.

Depended on the goal then. Want to show the uniqueness of Columns themes (and unfortunately stays niche) or to ride the popularity of Puyo Puyo? I do still prefer the first one.

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Re: SEGA Puzzle Games - If it doesn't fit, just flip it over!
« Reply #509 on: October 12, 2023, 12:12:36 am »
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