SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on September 08, 2014, 11:32:41 am
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Dreamcast will soon be 15 years old....and since 2001..its been almost 13 years when Sega abandoned first party consoles...
And while we have been excited and disapointed in Sega's second run as a third party..we can all agree that most of the games really don't come close to when they were developing and designing games for their own systems. Considering that Sega has various studios and companies at its disposal..more than they had before...isn't it about time they made a comeback to consoles?
Even though i know why they won't..the facts are plain that Sega just isn't cutting it as a third party in terms of what they built their reputation on. To many people nowadays there games are either represented by acquired game studios or cheap digital titles..all making a decent profit but not something that would really make a person a fan of the company since those titles are not unique enough to stand out as a collective. Unlike their past glories like SHINOBI, VIRTUA FIGHTER, NIGHTS and countless others...
A new system would defiantly help sort out one fundamental problem...Sega games coming out on a regular basis and localized games of certain titles and more arcade ports..three factors that are noticeably absent (so far) this year..or in the majority of their run as a third party.
It seems that the company hasn't adjusted from the fall out of the DC and being a first party console developer in general. 13 years in and there is no coincidence that many of the games released are not up to par to what many(of sega fans that a left..a few)are accustomed to. The best games on the best console.
Do you think that SOJ's fire could be re ignited if they had a system to call their own? Do you think the first party SOJ has had trouble adjusting from what they were?
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Better to keep releasing mobile phone skinner boxes IMO.
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A console would be a bad idea right now. The market cannot sustain Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo and Sega, along with the PC. If MS ever dropped it, or Sony ran out of cash, then worth a look again.
A handheld, however, may be worth looking at. Nintendo has sold 35 million 3DS units, with 2 brand new models on their way out. The idea that hand held gaming is dead is silly. Sony screwed up both of their handhelds though, and I cannot see a third. May be an opening.
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A console will not in any way fix Sega's problems.
Sega continued to produce great games post dreamcast. Sega doesn't produce many great Sega games now for 2 reasons:
1. They didn't sell.
2. Sammy Drove the creative talent away from the company.
Simple as that. A new console will not fix this.
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A console will not in any way fix Sega's problems.
Sega continued to produce great games post dreamcast. Sega doesn't produce many great Sega games now for 2 reasons:
1. They didn't sell.
2. Sammy Drove the creative talent away from the company.
Simple as that. A new console will not fix this.
They didn't continue to produce great games..that's the problem. Their titles as a third party compared to their titles as a first party console developer PALES in comparison. Only two or three titles are close to Sega's games on their consoles. Simple as that.Jack.
Anyhow the question is hypothetical...i know the reasons why Sega wouldn't create a new system..i recently was arguing that fact on another topic.
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If anyone isn't pleased with their 3rd party efforts, what would that mean for a new 1st party revival where they have more pressure?
That said, I would like another console but really rather see Sega in top shape more.
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https://astortheatreblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/soylent_geekinsider.jpg
I think that image should sum up my thoughts...I do see a way of a comeback
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I think Sega needs to get their shit straight before releasing Hardware. With the amount of competition there is with Sony, Nintendo, and MS. I don't think Sega would last very long in the hardware business, they'd be better off working together with one of those companies instead. I would love to see Nintendo and Sega develop a console together.
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More details answer, I think we're more likely to see players dropping out of consoles instead of newcomers getting into it. I feel like it's a dying platform for gaming with more people moving to PC or tablets/phones.
The only way I would like to see Sega try this is do something really different. Release a console that only costs like $30 or something and sell games that are $5. Even then, I could see it going the way of the Ouya.
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More details answer, I think we're more likely to see players dropping out of consoles instead of newcomers getting into it. I feel like it's a dying platform for gaming with more people moving to PC or tablets/phones.
The only way I would like to see Sega try this is do something really different. Release a console that only costs like $30 or something and sell games that are $5. Even then, I could see it going the way of the Ouya.
Yes that's how i see it too.
Especially what's happening
(http://i13d.3djuegos.com/juegos/11352/the_world_end_eclipse/fotos/noticias/the_world_end_eclipse-2613743.jpg)(http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/World-End-Eclipse-Ann-Fami_09-09_002.jpg)
PC Smartphones and Vita. This is effectively how they would have approached a big game traditionally except it would be on consoles rather than smartphones. As i mentioned numerous times SOJ is going this route because its economical sense for them to do so...cheap...no real outside costs and maxium profits from sales of the game and the elements usually involved in these type of games. Big because the producer of this game is Shinji Motoyama,of Valkyria Chronicles fame with Character design is being handled by Katsumi Enami.In saying that this game probably costs more than the average digital game they produce..perhaps close to PSO2 levels. Regardless this is a sign of intent on Sega's part that their AAA titles are going this route.
Here's a link..
http://gematsu.com/2014/09/sega-announces-online-theater-rpg-world-end-eclipse-ps-vita-smartphones-pc#4q5TTmdcapkfLwVD.99 (http://gematsu.com/2014/09/sega-announces-online-theater-rpg-world-end-eclipse-ps-vita-smartphones-pc#4q5TTmdcapkfLwVD.99)
And it will probably not be released in the west either. I think a system like Ouya or a partnership would sort th problems out because it easily could be a focus for all their titles old and new to be released on a digital content system and it wouldn't necessary be seen as direct competition to the console providers so they could technically still make games on other systems and just have this at the side. But that is a pipe dream...
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The talk of console gaming being dead reminds me of when the 3DS struggled initially. The feeling was mobile gaming had killed it's appeal. 35 million 3DS units sold later and that opinion seems like it was massively premature. Also similar to previous years when new consoles launched and the talk would be of PC gaming being finished because consoles were more powerful. Cut to 6 months later and a new generation of cards meant the PCs were killing the consoles for power again.
I could see Sony dropping out due to the severe financial issues they have. I could also see Microsoft's new CEO loosing interest in the Xbox as a gaming platform, instead moving to more of a rival to Apple TV.
If either of those happened. then I would love Sega to step in. There's no risk of consoles going away any time soon. You will always have a sizable group of people who want to play proper games without having to bother with a PC. Tablets and phones cannot provide that. They merely provide a time waster.
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It seems that the company hasn't adjusted from the fall out of the DC and being a first party console developer in general. 13 years in and there is no coincidence that many of the games released are not up to par to what many(of sega fans that a left..a few)are accustomed to. The best games on the best console.
SEGA got off to a great start as a 3rd party developers but it didn't get the sales it was hopping far and then had to fight a nasty battle with Sammy to try and stay independent and since Sammy taken over it's just been a really long downslide for the company .
The big trouble is the current SEGA just isn't the old SEGA many of us grew up
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SEGA got off to a great start as a 3rd party developers but it didn't get the sales it was hopping far and then had to fight a nasty battle with Sammy to try and stay independent and since Sammy taken over it's just been a really long downslide for the company .
The big trouble is the current SEGA just isn't the old SEGA many of us grew up
That depends on which era you grew up on Sega. Sega means different things to different people depending on age. I can accept that one era will eventually past and move on to the next. What one cannot accept is the lack of effort in trying to create good solid games. And really Sammy isn't the cause of this either this is always been down to SOJ management which you yourself acknowledged as the reason why several games hasn't happened even when they were in a better position to go ahead with these titles.
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That depends on which era you grew up on Sega.
Well not really . If you grew up with SEGA in the 80's, 90's or far the DC period you grew up with a became a fan of a very different SEGA to one we have today sadly .
And really Sammy isn't the cause of this either this is always been down to SOJ management
Sammy slashing of SEGA's R&D is very much to blame and don't go on about the SEGA board . Sammy makes sure who's appointed to run the SEGA group and has the final say. [size=78%] [/size]
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Do you guys really need to do this every fucking thread?
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Do you guys really need to do this every fucking thread?
Perhaps you are the one doing this! I await your heated reply.
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Well not really . If you grew up with SEGA in the 80's, 90's or far the DC period you grew up with a became a fan of a very different SEGA to one we have today sadly .
Sammy slashing of SEGA's R&D is very much to blame and don't go on about the SEGA board . Sammy makes sure who's appointed to run the SEGA group and has the final say.
Do you actually THINK before you post anything? If you were playing Sega games during the sixties and seventies they were completely different to what they were in the eighties to what they were when they went 3D AND TO WHAT THEY ARE NOW.Jesus fucking christ....
And yes it is the board because guess what genius..the same incompetence running the company back in the nineties is the same incompetence running it now. But a idiot like you who won't blame SOJ for anything who are blind to their idocicy who KEPT spreading propaganda on how stupid and usless Kalinske was is now being found out that not only is SOJ being the gits that they.
If Sammy is guilty of anything its not exerting enough control on SOJ...and anyone familiar with the company can plainly see that. SOJ is doing exactly what they were doing before the merger..but now more insular than ever..
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Perhaps you are the one doing this! I await your heated reply.
::) ::) ::)
Complete non sense!
Show me some proof that I have ever done this! Hah, stop coming to me with these accusations, kid.
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Do you actually THINK before you post anything? If you were playing Sega games during the sixties and seventies they were completely different to what they were in the eighties
Huh . I seriously doubt many here were born in the 70's , never mind playing SEGA games in that decade or before . I'm willing to bet most here came to love SEGA from the Mega Drive days .
.the same incompetence running the company back in the nineties is the same incompetence running it
Not totally different for the most important reasons for games . In the 90's SEGA was way out in front for cutting edge games, making countless AAA games and was totally blowing away any of its rivals in the Arcades not just for games but for Tech too . Very different to the SEGA Japan were have today , that's seen the creative cutting edge SEGA style totally diminished in terms output both in terms of numbers and good games .
In the 90's we had a SEGA that was leading the field and blowing away people in the Arcades with Tech like Model 1 and 3 Arcade games like VF, Daytona USA, Sega Rally and so on . In the home we had that SEGA cutting edge style with games like Sonic, Virtual Cop, Streets of Rage II, Panzer Dragoon Saga , Shenmue ,Revenge of Shinobi, NiGHTS, Christmas NiGHTS (most prob the best Christmas game ever made) Quackshot , House of the dead II , PS IV and good knows so many more classics its not even funny
Its quite sad to see the SEGA Japan of today
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Huh . I seriously doubt many here were born in the 70's , never mind playing SEGA games in that decade or before . I'm willing to bet most here came to love SEGA from the Mega Drive days .
And not many people have been in a rocket that doesn't stop one being a fan of NASA regardless of what period of NASA's history that you became a fan of. The point is Sega has had many fans throughout its lifetime and more likely have lost fans because of the changes they have had since its history. I would know because i know people who were fans of Sega and the old style arcade machines...my late father being one of them.
The world doesn't revolve around the internet or segabits...
Not totally different for the most important reasons for games . In the 90's SEGA was way out in front for cutting edge games, making countless AAA games and was totally blowing away any of its rivals in the Arcades not just for games but for Tech too . Very different to the SEGA Japan were have today , that's seen the creative cutting edge SEGA style totally diminished in terms output both in terms of numbers and good games .
They still are in front..its just the market has drastically changed and you are whining about it by complaing about Sega...no one in the arcades are producing the type of games we were enjoying in the eighties and nineties.
In the 90's we had a SEGA that was leading the field and blowing away people in the Arcades with Tech like Model 1 and 3 Arcade games like VF, Daytona USA, Sega Rally and so on . In the home we had that SEGA cutting edge style with games like Sonic, Virtual Cop, Streets of Rage II, Panzer Dragoon Saga , Shenmue ,Revenge of Shinobi, NiGHTS, Christmas NiGHTS (most prob the best Christmas game ever made) Quackshot , House of the dead II , PS IV and good knows so many more classics its not even funny
Its quite sad to see the SEGA Japan of today
And the difference is they were all made on Sega systems/tech..which is a factor to why i reckon the games just aren't as on a par as those titles..something that was quite evident in the 2002/3 and beyond releases.
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Do you guys really need to do this every fucking thread?
It keeps the topics alive :)
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They still are in front..its just the market has drastically changed
Yeah right . SEGA are nothing for most people these days their current console output is just average. And I know you'll keep backing on about mobile but even on there, they're hardly market leaders not that many here or in the past liked or like SEGA due their mobile games .
And the difference is they were all made on Sega systems/tech..which is a factor to why i reckon the games just aren't as on a par as those titles
Always with the excuses . SEGA can still make great games on rival systems , when it it was allowed to have creative freedom and great R&D funding .
Face facts we'll never see a game like this from SEGA ever again under Sammy .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCE4uacK6D4#t=62
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Yeah right . SEGA are nothing for most people these days their current console output is just average. And I know you'll keep backing on about mobile but even on there, they're hardly market leaders not that many here or in the past liked or like SEGA due their mobile games .
Funny because i was talking about the arcades in that comment that you have taken out of context (ONCE AGAIN)which is why ARCADES was mentioned in that comment.
They still are in front..its just the market has drastically changed and you are whining about it by complaing about Sega...no one in the arcades are producing the type of games we were enjoying in the eighties and nineties.
Simple. So TA stop spinning peoples comments.
Always with the excuses . SEGA can still make great games on rival systems , when it it was allowed to have creative freedom and great R&D funding .
I'm not the one who just used the sammy CEO excuse. That right there shows you have no idea what you are on about. You're just a has been sega fan who can't blame SOJ manangement for the f ups that they are clearly causing. From saturn to 32x to this..so typical...
Face facts we'll never see a game like this from SEGA ever again under Sammy .
YAKUZA 1,2 and 3 under segaSammy..VALYKRIE CHRONICLES under segaSammy, DIGITAL DOMAIN under SegaSammy...LETS GO UISLAND 3D under SegaSammy...VF SHOWDOWN...under segasammy....
Learn to do research before attempting to comment on something you know nothing about.
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::) ::) ::)
Complete non sense!
Show me some proof that I have ever done this! Hah, stop coming to me with these accusations, kid.
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*sigh* Once again you are talking out of your ass. Listen. Sonic 1. Sonic 2. Sonic 3. Sonic 4. Need I go on? Quit making yourself look like an idiot and learn to accept defeat.
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*sigh* Once again you are talking out of your ass. Listen. Sonic 1. Sonic 2. Sonic 3. Sonic 4. Need I go on? Quit making yourself look like an idiot and learn to accept defeat.
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Knock it off, kid. Sonic 4? Your really scraping the barrel now aren't you? ::)
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I'm still not seeing any proof, you're just rattling off the same list of Sonic as per usual if you can't make an argument then you can just stop going in circles.
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Please guys..keep in friendly...were all Sega fans at the end of the day...
This message was brought to you on behalf of the BTN let's get along ...or i'll ban you all society!
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Knock it off, kid. Sonic 4? Your really scraping the barrel now aren't you? ::)
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I'm still not seeing any proof, you're just rattling off the same list of Sonic as per usual if you can't make an argument then you can just stop going in circles.
HA! Okay, this is laughable. You have never played Sonic 4. I have. Proof? Here's my receipt for the Playstation that I played Sonic 4 on: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2006/10/ps3smudgepresalereciept.jpg (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2006/10/ps3smudgepresalereciept.jpg)
Also, Yuji Naka told me via email that I'm right.
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A-hem, seriously though, back on topic... :P
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^I know that's fake because it says 'David' instead of "Barrington".
As for a Sega console, the closest thing I could see happening is them making a Steam-box when/if that becomes a thing. I doubt that will happen though. Might be nice, release a steam box with all/lots of the Sega games pre-loaded on the HDD and port a few more over.
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^I know that's fake because it says 'David' instead of "Barrington".
As for a Sega console, the closest thing I could see happening is them making a Steam-box when/if that becomes a thing. I doubt that will happen though. Might be nice, release a steam box with all/lots of the Sega games pre-loaded on the HDD and port a few more over.
Prove it.
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^I know that's fake because it says 'David' instead of "Barrington".
As for a Sega console, the closest thing I could see happening is them making a Steam-box when/if that becomes a thing. I doubt that will happen though. Might be nice, release a steam box with all/lots of the Sega games pre-loaded on the HDD and port a few more over.
A SEGA Steam Box is the most realistic idea, and one I've floated a few times in the past. Team with a hardware manufacturer, have SEGA's PC teams work with them to make a machine that is ideal for SEGA's PC output, and have the design be reminiscent of the Saturn/Dreamcast. Release it in two colors (black and white) and have it pre-loaded with some games. Bonus: release it with a USB Saturn pad with the SEGA Steam Box branding.
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A SEGA Steam Box is the most realistic idea, and one I've floated a few times in the past. Team with a hardware manufacturer, have SEGA's PC teams work with them to make a machine that is ideal for SEGA's PC output, and have the design be reminiscent of the Saturn/Dreamcast. Release it in two colors (black and white) and have it pre-loaded with some games. Bonus: release it with a USB Saturn pad with the SEGA Steam Box branding.
Again "Proof" it...
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Again "Proof" it...
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"prove"
Anyways, i'm with Barry, a Sega based Steam Machine would be great.
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Funny because i was talking about the arcades
What for profits ? On that side the AM divisions haven't been doing that great and posting losses for the last couple of results . And even on the Arcade side Sammy cost cutting has shown its hand with SEGA Arcade hardware that is even behind that of TATIO's and in most cases even the PS3 and 360 Hardware which are getting on for 9 years old .
Simple. So TA stop spinning peoples comments
You've just quoted your self mate and responded to it . So I haven't the 1st clue what your are playing at there .
I'm not the one who just used the sammy CEO excuse
Its not an excuse its the reality. Anyone will know and can see SEGA Japan are a shadow of what they used to be . Gone is the vision, the creativity the passion for leading on the Edge of games and tech and pushing the boundaries. Pretty to see SEGA Japan in its current state [size=78%] ..[/size]
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I'll blame SEGA Japan for a lot of things and their mistakes . But in the old days their games and output made up for all the silly screw ups .
YAKUZA 1,2 and 3 under segaSammy..VALYKRIE CHRONICLES under segaSammy
Yakuza and Valkyrie started life before the Sammy take over . And looks at what happned since . Yakuza now gone for leading tech (Yakuza 2 pushed the PS2 hard) to a game of endless sequels simple updates and tech that is way behind all its rivals . The Val team reduced to handhelds and now piss poor FTP games and their amazing Canvas engine gone for ever .
.VALYKRIE CHRONICLES under segaSammy, DIGITAL DOMAIN under SegaSammy...LETS GO UISLAND 3D under SegaSammy...VF SHOWDOWN...
So we reduced to listing Arcade games now . Fine like I said way back in 2010 their Arcade teams still pump out the good stuff. Shame Sammy reduced the tech and what the hells happing with Virtual Fighter 6 ?
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F bomb....
"prove"
Anyways, i'm with Barry, a Sega based Steam Machine would be great.
It was a joke..that's why it was spelled the other way round..don't take it serious...
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What blah blah blah..
Again there is no one coming out with great arcade games these days. That was the point. Stop trying to begin another argument on something that really has nothing to do with the topic.
You've just quoted your self mate and responded to it . So I haven't the 1st clue what your are playing at there .
You are an idiot then because i didn't quote myself. I showed you what was actually said. Now i know you are going to try and ruin the thread yet again on another countless point but since you answered the original point of what i had to requote to REMIND you what i actually said i think we all know what game you are playing. Grow up simpleton.
Its not an blah blah blah
I'll blame Sammy blah blah blah.
That's why you keep bashing EVERYONE except SOJ...
blah blah started life blah
No they didn't. Sammy was well rooted in sega by 2003 and in 2004 when YAKUZA started . Especially since Nagoshi said the game took two years. And we all know a project could get canned at a drop of a hat so obviously sammy had the money to keep the project going.
So we reduced to listing Arcade games now . blah blah blah
No i showed two examples of consoles and then arcades. On a comment that you said that Sega hasn't made any strong games under SegSammy. Again stop twisting..and come to think of it if you are not going to contribute to the thread then get off the topic. This isn't the TA/ROJM show you know. You want to make a topic about how crap Sega is be my guest. Stop hijacking other people threads that want to deal with the subject rather than spreading points you lost in topics past months ago.
No need to reply. I'm getting off this merry go round...
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Again there is no one coming out with great arcade games these days.
SEGA and Namco come out with the odd few and so do a few others . But Arcade are not what they were so why even you even go on about the Arcades when trying to praise SEGA is beyond me .
You are an idiot then because i didn't quote myself
You did . And its only you that plays the child's game of trying (and failing) of trying to alter what people type
Sammy was well rooted in sega by 2003 and in 2004 when YAKUZA started
2004 I'll think you find . Yakuza started life in 2002 and Val in 2003 . Projects that started life before Sammy and boy does it show .
No i showed two examples of consoles and then arcades
Come on then . What have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan for this and next year .
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SEGA and Namco come out with the odd few and so do a few others . But Arcade are not what they were so why even you even go on about the Arcades when trying to praise SEGA is beyond me .
I haven't BEEN praising Sega on this topic...Missed the point of the entire thread...
You did . And its only you that plays the child's game of trying (and failing) of trying to alter what people type
Really...
No its you who does. You never stick to the actual topic at hand you create arguments of points that was never even raised and then you twist and spin peoples comments out if context to come up with a way to side and detract the issue. Everyone knows your game..but why believe me here's what others have to say...
Are you purposely selecting choice words from my quotes and replying to them?
Which was directed at you, TA in the capcom thread in the gaming forum. So don't bother painting me in the same brush when you and only you are guilty of this type of spinning and taken comments out of context.
2004 I'll think you find . Yakuza started life in 2002 and Val in 2003 . Projects that started life before Sammy and boy does it show .
No it didn't..
The plan itself has been in existence for 3~4 years, well before PS3. The theme behind “Valkyria Chronicles” is to portray a drama that unfolds on the battlefield/during war-time(?).
That interview was made in 2008. If you do your math the production of the game dates back in 2004...UNDER the new regime. So once again you are wrong. You are wrong as well down to the fact Sega didn't HAVE the money to pour 15 -20 million plus on new titles. So those games just wouldn't have existed. And no Sammy made the merger in 2003...they brought the remaining stock to create the new company in 2004. So stop lying for gods sake and stop blaming everyone else for SOJ's flaws.
Come on then . What have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan for this and next year .
Again detracting the issue. You said no strong sega games were released under segasammy..i gave you those examples. Now you trying to prolong it by talking about stuff in the future. You already lost this argument by the fact you are trying to change it.
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I can't see a Sega Steam Machine being a good idea. I am open to being proven wrong when it finally releases, but I cannot see Steam Machine taking off. With the cheapest price being €500 thus far, why get it over a PS4 or Xbone. Also the fact that there is not one hardware profile on it takes away some of the simplicity of being a console. I think Valve were better sticking with the PC as their platform. We've seen what happened to Microsoft when it started trying to support both the PC and Xbox as gaming platforms, GFWL is dead. I'm not saying Valve will do the same, I'm saying it is extremely difficult to make it work.
The biggest problem is that I don't believe the market is there that wants a PC connected to their TV who doesn't just connect their PC to their TV and will not just get one of the existing 3 8th generation machines. Unless Half Life 3 releases as a Steam Machine exclusive, why bother.
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I can't see a Sega Steam Machine being a good idea. I am open to being proven wrong when it finally releases, but I cannot see Steam Machine taking off. With the cheapest price being €500 thus far, why get it over a PS4 or Xbone. Also the fact that there is not one hardware profile on it takes away some of the simplicity of being a console. I think Valve were better sticking with the PC as their platform. We've seen what happened to Microsoft when it started trying to support both the PC and Xbox as gaming platforms, GFWL is dead. I'm not saying Valve will do the same, I'm saying it is extremely difficult to make it work.
The biggest problem is that I don't believe the market is there that wants a PC connected to their TV who doesn't just connect their PC to their TV and will not just get one of the existing 3 8th generation machines. Unless Half Life 3 releases as a Steam Machine exclusive, why bother.
You could potentially make a Steam Box for much cheaper than the price you listed. For Sega games especially you could probably make something very cheap that could run their games.
As for vs Plugging a PC into the TV, the idea of a steambox is that it will work as simply as a console does, being a plug n' play system. IT would also be more flexible in theory than most consoles.
I still don't think it would be a good idea for Sega to make one, I agree with you on that much. I do think it's the only possibility at this stage they might have a 'console' on the market though.
Look at Sega's PC lineup, it's not really enough to warrant making hardware for.
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A Steambox by Definition/Specification must come pre-loaded with SteamOS.
As of today, Sega only has 1 game on SteamOS, which is FM 2014. While FM15 and Rome 2 are on the way(With COH 2 and Empire:TW unofficially enroute via SteamDB repos), it would bring up the total to 5 games.
That simply wouldn't be anything to go and try and sell most hardware platforms with. I know one could still buy other games on it, but talking strictly Sega, until their Linux support becomes stronger, a steambox is not even too feasible in itself.
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You never stick to the actual topic at hand you create arguments of points
Well that's quite easy . SEGA can't make enough good consoles games as a 3rd party, never mind trying to make a console and support it with AAA In-House games .
No it didn't.
Yakuza started life well in 2002 and in Nagosh-san EDGE column he gave little hits on SEGA Japan and his next project . And as For Val that started life late 2003 early 2004 on the PC with the intent of making in a early 360 title.
Sammy did just what any Big corps does after a take over ... Keep the current lines going (to easy a smooth transition) and then after a few years put in the axe .
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If you can't list me a game of AAA games coming this and next year. What chance do you think SEGA got of making a console ? and more so one that would sell with SEGA exclusives .[/font][/color]
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OK no more arguing here between you two. Can we please contain it? Make a topic about the debate, but lets not fight in every debate about the same thing.
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OK no more arguing here between you two. Can we please contain it? Make a topic about the debate, but lets not fight in every debate about the same thing.
Hey I'm not insulting people with attacks. I'll stay on topic, by all means and on that score ... SEGA Japan current practice of cheap and easy games backing mobile and F2P model is not a way to prep you teams for next gen pipelines, much less get they used to making AAA blockbusters exclusive to sell one's consoles again.
SEGA Japan not longer as it in them to make the kind of games to sell a console
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Hey I'm not insulting people with attacks. I'll stay on topic, by all means and on that score ... SEGA Japan current practice of cheap and easy games backing mobile and F2P model is not a way to prep you teams for next gen pipelines, much less get they used to making AAA blockbusters exclusive to sell one's consoles again.
SEGA Japan not longer as it in them to make the kind of games to sell a console
Oh cut it out...you've been told to stop it now stop it. Stop lying and spinning and taking peoples comments out of context and derailing peoples threads just to suit your own ego. Were all sick of it and you.
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A Steambox by Definition/Specification must come pre-loaded with SteamOS.
As of today, Sega only has 1 game on SteamOS, which is FM 2014. While FM15 and Rome 2 are on the way(With COH 2 and Empire:TW unofficially enroute via SteamDB repos), it would bring up the total to 5 games.
That simply wouldn't be anything to go and try and sell most hardware platforms with. I know one could still buy other games on it, but talking strictly Sega, until their Linux support becomes stronger, a steambox is not even too feasible in itself.
The only way i can see that happening is if they approch Sega to put their name in the box..i don't think Sega would want to get involved in any consumer home consoles for the time being at least..even if it makes more sense to do so...
And as for content..come on, sega has loads of digital titles that are available on steam and other networks. Its a simple process of putting them on steam as well as the ammount of PC titles that they have here and in Japan. I would love to play TOTAL WAR and VF SHOWDOWN on the same system..
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I'll repeat Again.
A "SteamBox" MUST come with SteamOS. SteamOS is NOT simply a client, it is an operating system.
Having a game run on Steam is not the same as having it run on SteamOS. Sega only has ONE game on SteamOS as of current, with some officially and others unofficially coming. My point being that while they are including some of the heavy hitters, they would still need more.
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I'll repeat Again.
A "SteamBox" MUST come with SteamOS. SteamOS is NOT simply a client, it is an operating system.
Having a game run on Steam is not the same as having it run on SteamOS. Sega only has ONE game on SteamOS as of current, with some officially and others unofficially coming. My point being that while they are including some of the heavy hitters, they would still need more.
I get that point but like i said it isn't hard for them to transfer there content to that system if they were to engage in it. half of their digital material were Xbox, PSN and PC downloads which haven't been on any other system. That's what i'm talking about. The material exits for them to do it. So the argument is moot really if they were to go into that direction they would try to get the content ready to run on the system...
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I'm not arguing competency, I'm arguing resources.
It takes Feral Interactive between 3-4 years to port a Total War game to OSX(usually 3). The Creative Assembly is more or less on Track to port Rome II over a 2 or 3 year cycle at this rate. Sega Hardlight has only ever ported to mobile and Windows.
I'm saying, that these games take time, so while Sega is capable of porting(Which I never argued), it will still be a considerable wait.
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Oh cut it out...you've been told to stop it now stop it. Stop lying and spinning and taking peoples comments
You're the one that lies and spins no mean . You also love to insult people . I'll just like to stick to the facts . And facts are SEGA can't make AAA games as a 3rd party, never mind make enough to sell a console to the world
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You're the one that lies and spins no mean . You also love to insult people . I'll just like to stick to the facts . And facts are SEGA can't make AAA games as a 3rd party, never mind make enough to sell a console to the world
No its you and always have been. Everyone knows it. Stop seeking attention and trying to derail other peoples topics with you propaganda and you're "facts". You've already been warned now. Stop trolling.
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Joe how about you stop the spin and lies and stop the insults and then maybe you and I can have a debate . Don't dare try and make out that I'm nor or haven't been a SEGA fan and stop call people names and laying the insults .
Now if you want a debate and to stay on the matter. What makes you think that SEGA Japan - Who have no next gen engine to show off and have so far shown off 1 Next gen game (and that's a sharing code with PS3) and have just one next gen game now on the consoles . Would be able to pump out enough games to make any SEGA console worth buying?
The teams next gen piplelines and the team output just isn't up to the task of that are they ? Sonic Team no doubt have a next gen engine in the works and I would imagine PSO Team can make a next gen gine in no time but the others ?
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Joe how about you stop the spin and lies and stop the insults and then maybe you and I can have a debate . Don't dare try and make out that I'm nor or haven't been a SEGA fan and stop call people names and laying the insults .
Now if you want a debate and to stay on the matter. What makes you think that SEGA Japan - Who have no next gen engine to show off and have so far shown off 1 Next gen game (and that's a sharing code with PS3) and have just one next gen game now on the consoles . Would be able to pump out enough games to make any SEGA console worth buying?
The teams next gen piplelines and the team output just isn't up to the task of that are they ? Sonic Team no doubt have a next gen engine in the works and I would imagine PSO Team can make a next gen gine in no time but the others ?
Just stop the spin stop the lies stop deraling peoples topics... you've been found out for what you are...the capcom topic this topic and so many topics ALONE has proven that. You insist on just arguing for the sake of it. You have already been told to stop by george but you insist in carrying on and on and on. That is a lack of respect for the people who run this site. But not really surprised. Keep carrying on your fantasy world...no body is listening to you any more..You really don't know when to quit...
I'm formally asking you to stay on topic or don't post on here anymore. If you don't i'm going to take this to the mods.
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..the capcom topic this topic and so many topics ALONE has proven that.
Found out on what ?
Capcom haven't posted a net loss in years - Fact
Wii had a more successful launch than the Wii U - Fact
Next gen sales are way ahead of those from the previous gen - Fact
3rd Parties make most of their money and sales from the consoles - Fact
Now I'll happy to stay on topic and I'll say again . SEGA Japan in current state isn't up the task of making sure a new SEGA console would have enough games to sell the machine .
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Found out on what ?
That i lost the entire argument and now insist in derailing topics just to satisfy my ego? FACT!
Now I'll happy to stay on topic
You haven't STUCK to the topic since you started to troll it.Now i've asked you and some one else asked you and you keep carrying on. You're just tolling for the sake of it.
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If want to make and sell a console you need to make sure you can make and supply enough AAA games to sell a machine to the world . Well on that score SEGA Japan just isn't up to the task at all now is it .
What's SEGA got to offer the world of gaming in its current state . A new Sonic, New Yakuza , New PSO and a new Diva game - Out of all of those IP only 1 or 2 can sell over a million . So sorry SEGA Japan is in no state to try and sell a console . Its needs to up its game and prove it's self on the next gen and so far it's showing its self to be inept at that sadly
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If want to make and sell a console you need to make sure you can make and supply enough AAA games to sell a machine to the world . Well on that score SEGA Japan just isn't up to the task at all now is it .
What's SEGA got to offer the world of gaming in its current state . A new Sonic, New Yakuza , New PSO and a new Diva game - Out of all of those IP only 1 or 2 can sell over a million . So sorry SEGA Japan is in no state to try and sell a console . Its needs to up its game and prove it's self on the next gen and so far it's showing its self to be inept at that sadly
Really clever to keep derailing the topic ..even though you are wrong in the franchise thing.....but nonethe less at least its on topic.....at last...
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Cool, no more arguing or i'll lock this topic.
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Cool, no more arguing or i'll lock this topic.
Thank You.
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I'm not arguing competency, I'm arguing resources.
It takes Feral Interactive between 3-4 years to port a Total War game to OSX(usually 3). The Creative Assembly is more or less on Track to port Rome II over a 2 or 3 year cycle at this rate. Sega Hardlight has only ever ported to mobile and Windows.
I'm saying, that these games take time, so while Sega is capable of porting(Which I never argued), it will still be a considerable wait.
Would it? They'd have that all sorted by the time of the launch releases and then future titles will take that in consideration. I don't see any problem here...Sega has had more obstacles in terms of system development that they always got around.
That's if they use that type of system or
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I'm not arguing competency, I'm arguing resources.
It takes Feral Interactive between 3-4 years to port a Total War game to OSX(usually 3). The Creative Assembly is more or less on Track to port Rome II over a 2 or 3 year cycle at this rate. Sega Hardlight has only ever ported to mobile and Windows.
I'm saying, that these games take time, so while Sega is capable of porting(Which I never argued), it will still be a considerable wait.
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise how few games work on SteamOS.
The other point would be is it worth Sega's time? They would probably make so much more money just leaving it dedicated to Windows rather than trying to make a Steambox work.
Maybe if Steamboxes become a hit when some dedicated hardware guys try them out, then Sega might decide to play in that space, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
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Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise how few games work on SteamOS.
The other point would be is it worth Sega's time? They would probably make so much more money just leaving it dedicated to Windows rather than trying to make a Steambox work.
Maybe if Steamboxes become a hit when some dedicated hardware guys try them out, then Sega might decide to play in that space, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
That is the thing as I mentioned, Feral handles the OSX TW ports.
The only Linux port to my knowledge(excluding potential 3rd parties) Sega has themselves funded is FM14, and the initiative was apparently at least somewhat successful because FM15 is also getting a linux port.
With regard to OS ports, Sega doesn't actually publish the porting of TW to OSX. Feral interactive port it themselves and they are the publishers for Total war on OSX. So I assume either Sega funds *some* of the porting or none of it. So as of now, Sega is currently funding FM15, Rome 2, and COH2 I assume due to the fact that it has linux code in the SteamDB entry all internally.
Empire looks like it is being ported by feral again, similar to how Aspyr ported and published the Mac and Linux version of Civilization 5. So Sega doesn't have to port all the games internally, they can contract companies or even individuals like Ryan Gordon to do their ports.
Again, my main concern is that even in the even that sega pursues a steambox, games will not be ready to launch with it for some time, and that is a problem.
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Again that's ridiculous.Resources isn't really an issue with Segasammy..they have money to burn at this point..more so than Sega enterprises ever did. Also If someone knows they are going to use a system using SBX tech they are going to apply the time to make the titles ready and fit the launch date around that schedule. Even then Sega has the best tech wizards in the business and can get around obstacles like this. They've done it numerous times in their history with game and arcade systems. But as i said Sega would more likely license the games out to be ported rather than commit as a first party console provider..
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Almost every licensed company Sega has ever worked with has either folded, been purchased, or is currently busy/working at Max capacity.
If you have suggestions feel free to present them, because I don't see many options available externally, studio-wise, even less if we're talking native ports.
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Almost every licensed company Sega has ever worked with has either folded, been purchased, or is currently busy/working at Max capacity.
If you have suggestions feel free to present them, because I don't see many options available externally, studio-wise, even less if we're talking native ports.
That's nonsense. Majesco has licensed many Sega products and they're still around...So are many others ...you're acting that they don't have the resources to do it..they do...they just DON'T spend the resources as much as they use to. Big difference.
And licensing is such a big thing it wouldn't make a difference if one company was no longer around when another company will takes its place to license Sega products. Which there are many who currently hold licenses of Sega IP and tech.
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There you go again...equating resources to money when I quite clearly defined Sega's greatest issue as available manpower.
Sega needed to be expanding, or at least properly maintain itself the last gen. It didn't. Instead it decided that it was not going to expand on successful IP, decided not to take into account what they did wrong but always blame the market, and has fragmented its userbase over and over again.
They should have been exploring with more 3rd parties last gen
They should have looked into publishing partnerships harder last gen for localizations
They should have been creating an maintaining new studios, not closing them down(within reason).
These aren't problems that you can simply just make go away. Money isn't the problem, Management is.
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There you go again...equating resources to money when I quite clearly defined Sega's greatest issue as available manpower.
Sega needed to be expanding, or at least properly maintain itself the last gen. It didn't. Instead it decided that it was not going to expand on successful IP, decided not to take into account what they did wrong but always blame the market, and has fragmented its userbase over and over again.
They should have been exploring with more 3rd parties last gen
They should have looked into publishing partnerships harder last gen for localizations
They should have been creating an maintaining new studios, not closing them down(within reason).
These aren't problems that you can simply just make go away. Money isn't the problem, Management is.
Yawn..you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Sega is one of the big companies that does an annual mass recruitment. Manpower has never been a problem at Sega.
As for the management..well this is all hypothetical anyway. No one expects Sega to do what were proposing. What's the point of arguing that they can't because of this and that when its just a hypothesis question?
They have the resources to di it which i said at the beginning and i also said they would more likely license it out rather doing it directly themselves. You are the one who has started to make the case that Sega hasn't this resource..or the licenses or this and that..which isn't true BTW..but i have never stated at the beginning that Sega would do it themselves but more likely license it for someone else to do it..if they were interested.
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The irony. Oh the irony.
Anyway yes, let's look at Sega's wonderful examples of Annual (http://kotaku.com/5898026/sega-of-america-walloped-by-layoffs-western-publishing-reduced-to-sonic-and-three-others) Mass (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/02/sega-of-america-confirms-unspecified-number-of-layoffs/) Recruitment (http://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/09/layoffs-hit-sega-europe-following-restructure-in-us/).
As for the management..well this is all hypothetical anyway. No one expects Sega to do what were proposing. What's the point of arguing that they can't because of this and that when its just a hypothesis question?
Red herring.
Whether something is or isn't a hypothesis/hypothetical is irrelevant. It is a supposition, an idea, a presented situation, conjecture ect....Thus is open to appropriate criticism.
Simply stating "well none of this is going to happen anyway" is not a valid defense and shows sign of a weak foundation.
But alas as you said, we are done here, so I bid thee adieu.
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Some of those firings where more management then developers, one of them is when SEGA Europe and SEGA America merged into SEGA West and they had lots of people doing the exact same thing.
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Most of it are QAs and management like George said, the closing of Secret Level, SEGA Racing Studio and SEGA Studio Australia would be a better example to cite.
But between that SEGA recruited/purchased Relic, Three Rings Design, Atlus and greatly expanded both The Creative Assembly (From 100 dev team to over 300) Sports Interactive has a Korean division now, Hardlight was setup with the remains of SEGA Racing Studio and SEGA Networks was created with some 300 odd developers assigned to the division.
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The irony. Oh the irony.
Anyway yes, let's look at Sega's wonderful examples of Annual (http://kotaku.com/5898026/sega-of-america-walloped-by-layoffs-western-publishing-reduced-to-sonic-and-three-others) Mass (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/02/sega-of-america-confirms-unspecified-number-of-layoffs/) Recruitment (http://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/09/layoffs-hit-sega-europe-following-restructure-in-us/).
Red herring.
Whether something is or isn't a hypothesis/hypothetical is irrelevant. It is a supposition, an idea, a presented situation, conjecture ect....Thus is open to appropriate criticism.
Simply stating "well none of this is going to happen anyway" is not a valid defense and shows sign of a weak foundation.
But alas as you said, we are done here, so I bid thee adieu.
In other words...you have no idea what you are talking about couldn't back it up and are now running away..and to boot two other people have backed me up.
Listen kid..if you are going to join these type of discussions. LEARN THE SUBJECT MATTER.
Don't think that coming here makes you an automatic expert on this type of thing. This forum..this place is KNOWN to be one of the leading places for sega smart fans..because of its material and in depth discussions. Over a ten year period now from where the core group was at sega nerds to where we are now. Its been known to reveal games months even a full year before they're revealed. WE had discussions about the inner workings of SOJ...in particular SOJ vs SOA way before it became the topic for everyone in the past month. Financial reports that are common place now was started by ME..jonboy and Aki back in the old Sega forums went to SN and to now wghere he does it on his own. And that's the tip of the iceberg. In fact anything that many sega sites have followed if not all game sites have come so because of what that core group of fans has done. So i really don't need some one who was probably in his nappies when these discussions originally took place around here coming to me and talking about stuff that he is clearly wrong about.