SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: fernandeath on February 25, 2016, 05:25:20 pm
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Fire Embles Fates is a sucess: both critical e comercial ( http://www.siliconera.com/2016/02/24/fire-emblem-fates-already-sold-300000-copies-north-america/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2016/02/24/fire-emblem-fates-already-sold-300000-copies-north-america/) ).
Even Langrisser got a revval for the 3DS.
What do you guys think ?
Is the 3DS he most 'suitable' console to get a new Shining game ?
(http://images.pushsquare.com/news/2012/03/sega_teases_major_shining_series_announcement/large.jpg)
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Definitely agree. It would make a lot of sense and this would be the best time. I actually see the chances high it would succeed on the back of the fire emblem successes. Considering the style of both series not being very demanding, the 3DS works well for the genre.
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To put it gently, the thing that attracts players to FE is its quality (and a healthy dose of smash brothers advertising).
Sega has butchered the shining brand for years with crappy action rpgs. It hasn't been a srpg in a long time and I don't see it catching on today unless it's A) phenomenally good and B) well advertised.
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What do you mean bring back? There was just a game release a couple of years ago? Oh, you mean back to what its suppose to be?
Yeah. I agree 100%. Though its funny that they 'killed it' I think Aki did a rant and showed that the new games actually have been outselling the old ones.
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Tho I think you both make good points. Dont you guys think that nowadays a reveal and first impressions/enthusiasm can do a lot for its momentum? Just like with shenmue for example.Most people who're excited about now havent even played the first 2 games. I could see the potential in that...
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What do you mean bring back? There was just a game release a couple of years ago? Oh, you mean back to what its suppose to be?
Yeah. I agree 100%. Though its funny that they 'killed it' I think Aki did a rant and showed that the new games actually have been outselling the old ones.
Sales don't always indicate the health of a franchise though. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes, and even Sonic 06 have sold more than Sonic 3 ever did for example yet those games are generally reviled. Sega might have made a quick buck with their cheap and shallow Shining games, but they've paid for it by weakening the brand substantially.
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That is a bad comparison. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 06, and Sonic Heroes are multiplatform titles while Sonic 3 was originally exclusive to the SEGA Genesis. Plus you have to consider any potential complications Sonic 3 is included in like Sonic Jam and Sonic Mega Collection.
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I thought gamers spoke with their wallets? I don't think game development is done as a charity and I heard that Nintendo was going to kill the franchise but the reason its back is due to sales. I don't mind action RPG Shining games and other side stuff, SEGA has done that since forever. Technically the SRPG games are side-titles. It started off as a dungeon crawler.
I just think the game can co-exist with Shining Force style and the new stuff that is bringing in a ton of merch money (which should be Japan only, since gamers in the west have spoken).
Hard for me to say that Shining is dead because it doesn't appeal to me. It appeals to someone if it has a ton of merch, games and animes.
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That is a bad comparison. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic 06, and Sonic Heroes are multiplatform titles while Sonic 3 was originally exclusive to the SEGA Genesis. Plus you have to consider any potential complications Sonic 3 is included in like Sonic Jam and Sonic Mega Collection.
The comparisons of new entries vs the old entries is also bad.
The circumstances when a game like Shining Force 3 was released on saturn, and Shining Force EXA was released on ps2 were incredibly different. The install base of the Saturn was PITIFUL compared to the mammoth size of the ps2's. Not to mention that the game industry's size had grown substantially by then.
I thought gamers spoke with their wallets? I don't think game development is done as a charity and I heard that Nintendo was going to kill the franchise but the reason its back is due to sales.
It's more complicated than that. If your games aren't well respected or adored by people, you will eventually get diminishing returns, no matter how good your sales were initially. The first few Shining force PS2 games sold well by nature of the size of the install base combined with the Sega brand. That weakened and dissolved over the following years due to poor quality of the games. Now we get the occasionally cheaply made psp game or this bizzare fighting game coming to arcades. It just reflects a general lack of interest in the franchise because of 10 years of decision making.
Also to be fair in this discussion, Sega DID make a SRPG called Shining Force Feather for DS. It just never was released internationally and as far as I know died a quiet death back home in Japan.
EDIT: apparently the game was solid as well!
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/shin/sff/reviews/sffstrev1.html
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/12/matters_of_import_shining_force_feather
who knows why it didn't catch on.
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Sales don't always indicate the health of a franchise though. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes, and even Sonic 06 have sold more than Sonic 3 ever did for example yet those games are generally reviled. Sega might have made a quick buck with their cheap and shallow Shining games, but they've paid for it by weakening the brand substantially.
Don't think it's fair to lump Heroes with the trainwreck that is Sonic 06. That hurt the brand massively but you don't end up selling 6 million copies of a game (Sonic Heroes) if said title was responsible for killing people's interest in a series.
Though Shining's sales were definitely killed off in the West because they were pandering heavily to Japan, that being said I can't say wither the series was a decent seller here or not. Probably should keep in mind SEGA always make money off of the figures each game promote, so it's not solely about software sales anymore.
Also to be fair in this discussion, Sega DID make a SRPG called Shining Force Feather for DS. It just never was released internationally and as far as I know died a quiet death back home in Japan.
who knows why it didn't catch on.
It was also the worst selling Shining game in Japan since the original Shining remake for the Gameboy Advance.
Sales of Shining games in Japan
Shining Ark - 83,641
Shining Force 3 - 67,516
Shining Force III Scenario 3: Hyouheki no Jashinguu - 38,382
Shining Force III Scenario 2: Nerawareta Miko - 37,592
Shining Soul - 72,997
Shining Soul 2 - 13,928
Shining Force: Dragon's Revival - 34,794
Shining Tears - 104,762
Shining Force Neo - 96,013
Shining Force Ikusa - 130,763
Shining Wind - 126,561
Shining Force Feather - 67,341
Shining Hearts - 162,885
Shining Blade - 161,868
Should be noted that the one two failures of Shining Soul 2 and Shining Force: Dragon's Revival gave Sawada the opportunity for Tony Taka to be brought in for future games and the failure of Feather killed any chances at the series moving back into the SRPG realm.
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On the topic itself, I do think if SEGA is willing to experiment then they should try and bring back both a traditional Phantasy Star or Shining Force title. I feel it'd be a good avenue to explore but wither or not be successful is another matter entirely, Fire Emblem is an outlier, not the norm, case in point...
Even Langrisser got a revval for the 3DS.
Sold 9,300 in it's debut week. Now I'm not sure if this was due to the fact the game was horrible or not but SRPGs are not the big sellers they use to be.
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Shining Soul 2 - 13,928
Such a shame, very underrated game. Was a early game by Grasshopper Studio and was published in the US by Atlus USA. It also tried to use early Shining Force art style. Its a shame.
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Looks like Japan prefers the RPG side of the series.
Feather didn't look to be a total bomb, but shift in platform likely the cause if Shining on PSP did so well.
Stella Glow flopped in Japan, but the sales looking better overseas. Probably something SEGA should keep in mind next time.
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Looks like Japan prefers the RPG side of the series.
Feather didn't look to be a total bomb, but shift in platform likely the cause if Shining on PSP did so well.
It definitely was a huge failure, you don't go from selling half the amount the predecessors do without having major ramification. It's what killed off the portable Yakuza series after all and I fear it's what did in any future SRPG Shining games.
Stella Glow flopped in Japan, but the sales looking better overseas. Probably something SEGA should keep in mind next time.
Not that I doubt you but I can't for the life of me find official NPD numbers. Do you know how much it sold in the West?
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I would love to see the series return to the SJRPG side of things! :'( and out of obscurity...I mean before awakening Fire Emblem was not that very well known. But I guess we can thank Smash Bros for that. And for the impending rumoured localised version of Mother 3.
I guess as much as I don't like the game I should be grateful! Now get some Virtua Fighter guys as dlc so maybe we can have a new game because they become familiar to the kids :P
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I would love to see the series return to the SJRPG side of things! :'( and out of obscurity...I mean before awakening Fire Emblem was not that very well known. But I guess we can thank Smash Bros for that. And for the impending rumoured localised version of Mother 3.
I guess as much as I don't like the game I should be grateful! Now get some Virtua Fighter guys as dlc so maybe we can have a new game because they become familiar to the kids :P
Well fire emblem awakenind did pretty well before smash, but yeah they really went hard from there with the smash promotion.
I guess shining force cant get that treatment. And looking at all the numbers is disheartening.
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Not that I doubt you but I can't for the life of me find official NPD numbers. Do you know how much it sold in the West?
I wish I knew. Stella Glow sold something like 20k in Japan and only sign that leaves me confident is that it spiked on Amazon best selling list when it was on sale.
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/9849dd348f453c75ba39cdfa385f0ac6/tumblr_o30s48iKxc1v2m77so1_1280.jpg)
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I was going to get the special edition of Fates but I heard bad things about it. Now I regret since its not being sold.
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It's also the time for Sega to release Phantasy Star V too but they don't really bet on Jrpgs that's not handheld/mobile stuff or MMOs.
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Don't think it's fair to lump Heroes with the trainwreck that is Sonic 06. That hurt the brand massively but you don't end up selling 6 million copies of a game (Sonic Heroes) if said title was responsible for killing people's interest in a series.
Fair enough, both Unleashed and Heroes are decent games on their own right. But they're both lacking when compared to S3. I guess I was just trying to give an example where the sales just weren't telling the full story.
In as far as Sega and shining force is concerned, I notice that Feather underwent a similar fate as Phantasy Star Zero. Zero was another ds title that was an attempt to deliver on what people wanted from the franchise (it was deliberately similar to the original PSO) yet sold terribly. Again, it was a franchise that up until that point had been on the psp. Zero ended up being a fun little game and a good effort, and it's sad to see Sega unrewarded for that kind of behavior. I can only assume the story is similar with Feather because as you said, it was back to the drawing board with Tony Taka after that.
News at 11: Sega makes great game that no one buys
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I forget but did Phantasy Star Zero and Shining Force Feather even get any sort of advertisement? If it didn't then I know the root of why they flopped.
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I would love to see the series return to the SJRPG side of things! :'( and out of obscurity...I mean before awakening Fire Emblem was not that very well known. But I guess we can thank Smash Bros for that.
No, what saved Fire Emblem was the Waifus/Dating simulator that was added in Awakening.
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No, what saved Fire Emblem was the Waifus/Dating simulator that was added in Awakening.
I think its a cool feature that you can have 2 characters who tag allong often in battles to marry each other and have a kid appear. Calling it waifu dating sim is a disservice imo because its a well implemented gameplay feature. Seems more like an overused joke that some people just keep going along with.
Whether it is what sold the game, i dont know. But I wouldnt consider that a bad thing. As a gameplay feature its a pretty good selling point now that ive played the game. It adds an interesting twist to how you play(if you care), and makes everyone's playthrough at least a little bit different.
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Calling it waifu dating sim is a disservice imo because its a well implemented gameplay feature. Seems more like an overused joke that some people just keep going along with.
Because it's true. While I do agree with you on the point of it being well-implemented, it still was the reason why the series was saved. I see more people talking about who they're going to pair up in FE now then actually discussing the actual game itself. But at least it isn't forced upon you (yet) so I can still play through the game without caring for the relationship aspect.
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The concept was a one-shot from one of the Super Famicom sequels. Awakening did hit all the right notes "ramp-up" the anime factor to save the series from its slump.
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Even Langrisser got a revval for the 3DS.
What do you guys think ?
Is the 3DS he most 'suitable' console to get a new Shining game ?
Wait, Langrisser had a new release? Since when, that is my all time fav series!
Also I think Shining Force as a SRPG deserves to be on XB Live and PSN, and whatever eShop Nintendo has, but more importantly on PC. IMO PC has a much larger audience that caters to strategy games. Look at the TW series, Civ series, always selling pretty well. Disgaea hit PC recently, minus the bugs, its an awesome game and the only game I've touched since it released.
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So I looked up this new Langrisser Re-incarnation, and it looks like crap. Looks worse than the Saturn versions, like pre-1994 3d graphics.
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Wait, Langrisser had a new release? Since when, that is my all time fav series!
Also I think Shining Force as a SRPG deserves to be on XB Live and PSN, and whatever eShop Nintendo has, but more importantly on PC. IMO PC has a much larger audience that caters to strategy games. Look at the TW series, Civ series, always selling pretty well. Disgaea hit PC recently, minus the bugs, its an awesome game and the only game I've touched since it released.
Not sure how many of those RTS fans will pick up a Japanese SRPG, really different type of experience (at least I think so). You are right that Japanese gaming scene improved on PC. More the reason I kept asking for Sakura Wars.
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I dunno.
Seeing a new actual Shining Force game is more unlikely as time goes by. If we go by console eras, the only holdover from the Genesis is Sonic and that's about it. Altered Beast, Shinobi and a couple of other Genesis franchises did not translate well into the current generation.
I think the Shining Force series as whole died with the Sega Saturn. Maybe an HD port for Shining Force III would be the way to go, but that seems very unlikely.
Which is a shame, because SF-like games (Strategy-based JRPG) are very common place on handheld consoles and android phones. If Shining Force were to continue as a series, I would picture it as an Android / iOS title. Maybe have a dev like Kemco that churns JRPGs every month like a godamn sweatshop, do a lotta of these games.
But I think won't do it, partially because whoever is running things now probably isn't aware / doesn't know the IP and I think it's been established that Valkyria Chronicles is the SEGA's go-to Strategy RPG.