Fat lips evolve at record speed

[Sharky]

I don't think any lines have been crossed with the post I see here, although it has been edited.

It does however come close to some passive aggressive style stealth attacks on crackdudes intelligence. Let’s make sure this debate doesn't boil down to petty insults.

Keep it clean and make sure you somewhat respect that people are going to have different opinions, respect them ect.

Edit: I see its been edited further and is now completely acceptable.

[fluffymoochicken]

It does however come close to some passive aggressive style stealth attacks on crackdudes intelligence. Let’s make sure this debate doesn't boil down to petty insults.

I'm sorry sorry if it seems like that. I certainly don't mean it to be insulting towards him personally. ^^;;; But I've worked hard to tone it down considerably.

[MadeManG74]

I just would like to point out that Evolution and Religion can co-exist. In fact I remember reading a Vatican official saying that Evolution is completely compatible with the Church's teachings.

[Monkeroony]

This thread makes me think of Eddie Izzard.

[fluffymoochicken]

I just would like to point out that Evolution and Religion can co-exist. In fact I remember reading a Vatican official saying that Evolution is completely compatible with the Church's teachings.

Also, my uncle is a Christian man who believes in evolution. He believes that the writers of the Bible added in outlandish supernatural events to their stories only in order to draw in followers from the other religions of the time. He instead sees Jesus Christ as a real person, more as a wise philosopher and teacher than a magician.

[crackdude]

I talked about the Big Bang to explain why I believe in God, as I stated earlier.

So the Big Bang is too outlandish, but an invisible magic man is backed by concrete proof? Well, I guess the latter is easier to understand since it is a simple idea formulated in more primitive times, before we had better scientific understanding of the universe.

Also, I did NEVER say that the universe is just 6000 years old. I said that according to the bible, HUMANS are 6000 years old. This is coherent with the records of our civilizations, which scientists calculate to have started 6000-10000 years ago.
I also didn't discard the idea of animals evolving. I just said why I think HUMANS did not.

We homo sapiens have been around longer than 6000 years, because we can find archaeological evidence that proves that we have. We did evolve, like every other living thing on the planet did.

On another comment, I would hardly call our dating systems accurate.

Oh yeah? Where's your proof? Until you can give me some credible information, I'll listen to scientists who do have credibility on their side, thanks.

And again, I do not wish to disrupt the main topic here.. Anything else PM me

Meh, without this conversation the topic would probably die anyway. =P

First off, I did not read the original post. From the reaction it got I think I would not be pleased with it. If you want to have a decent discussion, respect other's opinions as much as you respect yours. I may have a lack of profound knowledge on the subject and a linguistic barrier to overcome when explaining my thoughts. But it doesn't mean you're superior and your ideas are the truth.

But to reply to your sayings, evolution is NOT a fact. It's a THEORY.
As such, saying "We did evolve, like every other living thing on the planet did." is as saying "my mom went shopping" cause she came back with a basket when in reality she might have stole it from someone else. It is not proven.

Also, I do not understand your comment on Big Bang.
For one, I stated that I believe in Big Bang. Some people don't, but I do. I never said it was outlandish. I said it was probably what happened.
Second, scientists have NO IDEA how it started. All we know is that it involved massive quantities of energy that came from somewhere.
This in fact makes sense Bible-wise, since the Bible states that god is abundant in energy (Isaiah 40:26, for example).
And you cannot say the Bible isn't scientifically accurate.
For example, in a time when people thought that the Earth was flat and standing on top of an elephant, the Bible clearly stated it had circle form (Isaiah 40:22).
There are many nuances of scientific truth in the Bible. Bible and Science can in fact coexist and prove each-other right. Many scientists believe that today.

You do know as well, as you seem to know so much about all this, that if the Big Bang had involved just less the smallest amount of energy that it would have collapsed on itself, and that the any little bit more and it would have made the Universe not dense enough for the formation of stars. Think about that for a while.

"We homo sapiens have been around longer than 6000 years, because we can find archaeological evidence that proves that we have."
Yes and no.
As I said, the dating systems are NOT precise. And there are no records of what-so-ever older than about 6000 years. There are no recorded cities, nor books, nor writings, nor persons, nor utensils, nothing. The older things are about 10k years old but with a wide error margin.

As for dating methods,
In archeology, they use Potassium–argon and radiocarbon dating for human and "mokey" remains (the first are good with lava and human remains, the second on every carbon based thing, like our bodies). These can determine with a pretty good amount of certainty some few thousand years old skeletons and other remains.
Thing is that whenever you hear that something is more than 100.000 years old, it's based on the dating of rocks around the fossils. Thing is these dating methods have huge error margins (many reaching millions of years), not to mention that the actual fossil might be CONSIDERABLY younger than the rock.
I took some Geology classes, sorry to know something about this subject and piss you the fuck off.


We can keep this going on and on, but if you want to argue don't do it for spite. Actually debate stuff and don't just say your opinion is right because the others aren't. Chill

[Monkeroony]

Hmm I have problems in believing in god.
I have a close friend who is 24 years old, last year she was discovered to have a brain tumour and she most likely has a few weeks left to live now, she doesn't remember who I am, has very limited motor functions and barely speaks.

This is someone who studied and worked very hard, never drank, smoked or took drugs and within a year has had her entire life taken away from her.

Yet Joesf Fritzl's and Bernard Madoff's get to run rampant.

[Emmett The Crab]

We don't have to debate the existence of god, but going back to evolution, people tend to throw it all together in this "I didn't come from a monkey" mentality.  We see evolution happening all the time.  The theory of human evolution is that we have common ancestry with apes, not that we came from them.  I was in a medieval philosophy class when one kid raised his hand and said,

"If evolution is real, how come we don't see monkeys turning into humans today?"  This kind of brain-dead thinking is the reason evolution is still a theory, even though we know it's happening all the time, when necessary.  When a creature has a random mutation that helps it survive, then it lives longer and has more opportunity to breed and spread the trait.  I've heard a theory that creatures like humans and others with front-facing eyes have our massive brain capacity as an accident, because it was necessary to process geometry.  Basically we needed that brain to be able to accurately throw stuff.  I find all that stuff fascinating.

When the first dinosaur bones were first discovered, religious fanatics saw it as a challenge to their beliefs, since dinosaurs pre-date humans, and there weren't supposed to be any animals before us. They decided that god put those bones in the ground to "test our faith".  

In philosophy there's the question, If god is all good, all powerful and all knowing, how can there be evil in the world?  For me, I personally believe that god is in everything and everywhere.  Not some guy in white robes standing on a cloud.  So my answer to that question is that god is not all good, because it is everything.  

I also don't believe in hell.  That contradicts any notion of justice we have.  Compound that with the fact that (depending on your faith)  Jeffrey Dalmer could accept Jesus on his death-bed and go to heaven, and some tribesman in the jungle who has been good all his life, but has never heard of Jesus goes to hell on a technicality.

[crackdude]

Well I think that the main problem with religion and the reason why it is mocked today is because Catholics (the predominant Christian religion) misinterpreted many passages of the Bible, omitted some of them and adapted so much shit out of everything else that it's lost all it's credibility.

I don't believe in Hell. Why? Simple: IT'S NOT ON THE BIBLE.
There is evil nowdays because of Satan. From a decent study of the Bible it basically comes to an angel, Satan, challenging God's right to rule humanity and stating that he himself will be a better ruler. As the Bible states, he is the one ruling right now. However, God will, in the right time, go celestial war on him and destroy him, leading humans to a happy perfect life (again).
Very succinctly, that's pretty much the main point of the Bible. I do not know why the Catholic Church messed it all up so bad. Ironically, the Bible predicts it's destruction, what is indeed funny.

I also don't see how dinosaurs challenges anything. The Bible clearly mentions animals being created before humans (probably even succumbing to some mutations and evolutions).

But for HUMAN evolution, I can't agree..
Yes, we did not come from monkeys. There weren't even monkeys millions of years ago. There were the so called primates.
But humans have a conscience. That's something that animals don't have. Animals will react by instinct. Some are pretty smart and even have some similar brain activity patterns, but they cannot distinguish right from wrong. Humans can. The simple fact that we have a right and a wrong makes a huge difference between humans and animals in my opinion. And evolution can't quite explain that.

[MadeManG74]

Alright, the religion discussion is starting to take over the thread pretty hardcore. I think we should drop it before we start arguing with eachother. If you want to keep going and think you can keep it civil, then by all means go ahead, but I'm staying well away from this one.

[crackdude]

I myself am staying out of the religion topic from now on..

[fluffymoochicken]

I'd like to reply to that whole discussion, but the problem is, I know that what I want to say would be considered too harsh. So, yeah.

I'll leave it at that. =P