The Amazing 2012 Movie Discussion Rises: An Unexpected Journey

[Barry the Nomad]

July is nearing. The Dark Knight Rises and The Amazing Spider-Man. Excited for the former, unexcited for the latter.

<bitching>

As a big fan of the Raimi Spider-Man movies, I was really let down by Sony pushing for Venom to be shoehorned into the third movie only to result in a less than great Spider-Man 3. I actually DO enjoy Spider-Man 3, minus the venom stuff, but I think Sandman and Harry could have been the only villains. Anyway, point I'm getting at is that thanks to Sony's meddling, S-M3 got poor reviews and it gave Sony an excuse to kick Raimi out. It's like Richard Donner and Superman all over again.

Ideally, I really wanted to see a Raimi Spider-Man 4. Black Cat and the Vulture were rumored, though I was hoping for the Lizard due to Dylan Baker being a supporting cast member for the second and third films. However, if they used the Lizard for a fifth film it would have been genius. Give us three films to build up the character and Peter's friendship with him, and then give us an awesome transformation where we really have a history with Dr. Connors so we feel sorry for him and care that he lives. Remember, in S-M3 he had a small sample of the symbiote. So right there is Connor's access to regenerative and alien science, and it could open up a return of Venom for a sixth and final film via the sample growing and attaching itself to Flash Thompson or something. Give Venom a proper full film as villain.

Even better, in the Lizard film they could introduce Kraven the Hunter. So at the end of a six film series, they could have had two Goblins, Doc Ock, Sandman, Venom, Black Cat, Vulture, Lizard and Kraven.

---

So with all that potential in mind, they went and rebooted the fucking series. Now I'm all for reboots when they're needed. Nolan's Batman reboot was required, thanks to the original four films killing off all the major villains, not to mention Batman and Robin is one of the worst comic book movies ever. It needed a reboot desperately.

At the very least why not go the Superman Returns and Incredible Hulk route and do a soft reboot? Recast and bring on a new director, but have the storyline pick up from the last film. Still a reboot, but its implied that the events of the last movies happened to these characters. Like when Roger Moore came on as James Bond. New casting, but he still had the storyline with Blofeld and Bond's murdered wife going on from the Connery films. They could then still tell the Lizard story, but not have to toss in all this reboot crap.   

I think I'm also really unexcited for ASM due to the odd shifting about of characters. Like, they're making radical changes not because they're necessary, but because they just want it to look different from the original films. So now Conners works for Oscorp, Gwen is his assistant, Peter's dad was a scientist who worked with Connors and Harry and Norman Osborn are MIA? What the fuck? Everybody now seems way too connected. Next we'll learn that Aunt May is Mary Jane's half sister and Doc Ock is Captain Stacey's brother and Uncle Ben was Gwen's godfather.

Also, another origin story? C'mon! Spider-Man 1 may have had a poor design for the Goblin, but the origin story was fantastic! No interconnectedness with the villain, it just happened to Peter and he evolved into Spider-Man. The whole shitty suit and wrestling match were great. But now, the whole origin has to tie in with the villain and I'm sure we'll learn that Peter's dad created the spider that bit Peter. And in turn, Peter created the Lizard (he says so in a recent trailer) Oh geez...

So in the end, Amazing Spider-Man might be a decent comic book flick, but all that stuff I wrote will still be on my mind. Gonna be very hard to impress me. Hm.

</bitching>

[George]

Raimi Spider-Man movies are OK. I mean, there was just so much that got junked up by Hollywood bullshit. But then again so will the new movie. What I hated is that the movie didn't really take new plot points from the newer comics. Especially since Ultimate Spider-man at the time was winning so many awards (Including top 9 comics of all time).

So this new one is exploring origin elements from Ultimate Spider-man, should be interesting.

[Barry the Nomad]

I grew up on little paperback reprints of the originals, which is why I loved the Raimi movies basing the universe on the original comics. Sandman was 1:1 in terms of design, i loved it.

But anyway, Amazing Spider-Man 2 will have the script writers from Transformers. Seems Sony hates the current script writer and is allowing the "geniuses" behind those "amazing" Michael Bay movies to give it a full rewrite. So I assume lots of explosions and jokes about Mexicans. 

[Aki-at]

As a big fan of the Raimi Spider-Man movies, I was really let down by Sony pushing for Venom to be shoehorned into the third movie only to result in a less than great Spider-Man 3. I actually DO enjoy Spider-Man 3, minus the venom stuff, but I think Sandman and Harry could have been the only villains. Anyway, point I'm getting at is that thanks to Sony's meddling, S-M3 got poor reviews and it gave Sony an excuse to kick Raimi out. It's like Richard Donner and Superman all over again.

As far as I am aware Raimi opted out of it himself due to scheduling? Sony certainly would not let a director who earned them over $800 million thrice to go like that.

Raimi Spider-Man movies are OK. I mean, there was just so much that got junked up by Hollywood bullshit. But then again so will the new movie. What I hated is that the movie didn't really take new plot points from the newer comics. Especially since Ultimate Spider-man at the time was winning so many awards (Including top 9 comics of all time).

So this new one is exploring origin elements from Ultimate Spider-man, should be interesting.

Never thought Raimi's Spiderman films were all that great either and Spider-Man 3 was all kind of horrible in terms of plot, Mary Jane was an irrational idiot, Harry suffering from amnesia and I just cannot get past Sandman's "innocence" LOL SORRY GUY PUSHED INTO MY GUN IS WHY I KILLED YOUR UNCLE! At least they had decent fight scenes. 

Not excited by current one due to the random changes made, nor the design of the Lizard. He's meant to look like a lizard, why is that so hard?

[Barry the Nomad]

I really think Sony's meddling lead to a cluttered third film. When it came time for the fourth, from some reports that I've read, Sony wanted to continue to have too much control over the script which lead to re-writes and delays. The continued delays lead to Raimi "parting ways" with Sony. I really think Sony just cancelled their contract and rebooted: http://blog.al.com/entertainment-press-register/2010/01/spider-man_sequel_delayed_sony.html Seems Raimi wanted a larger budget and Sony was like "lol, no. we'll hire cheaper actors, the 500 Days of Summer director and give it a cheaper budget."

Seems Sony is doing this again with the Amazing Spider-Man sequel, as they are replacing the writer of the first and second with the Transformers writers! Oh my god...

---

Anyway, putting Spider-Man aside, anybody f***ing pumped for Dark Knight Rises. Really, this is my generations Return of the Jedi. I cannot wait.

I read some spoilers that I wish I didn't, but if they're true... it'll be awesome.

[Aki-at]

I really think Sony's meddling lead to a cluttered third film. When it came time for the fourth, from some reports that I've read, Sony wanted to continue to have too much control over the script which lead to re-writes and delays. The continued delays lead to Raimi "parting ways" with Sony. I really think Sony just cancelled their contract and rebooted: http://blog.al.com/entertainment-press-register/2010/01/spider-man_sequel_delayed_sony.html Seems Raimi wanted a larger budget and Sony was like "lol, no. we'll hire cheaper actors, the 500 Days of Summer director and give it a cheaper budget."

Seems Sony is doing this again with the Amazing Spider-Man sequel, as they are replacing the writer of the first and second with the Transformers writers! Oh my god...

Raimi wanted even more money than just $250 million? Heh no wonder Sony parted ways with him. Though didn't Toby and co leave because they did not want to get typecasted?

As for The Dark Knight Rises, only a month away. Felt only like yesterday Batman Begins came out in cinema, why back then I was still on SFGHQ and SEGA was still releasing bad Sonic games and George Bush was on his rampage of destroying the world. I have loved everything about the film since the first teaser trailer. Except for that stadium explosion scene, looked way too fake and strange for a Nolan film, since they usually do not rely on CGI so much.

[Barry the Nomad]

When Batman Begins came out, I was still at school in Chicago. Saw the movie in the heart of downtown, where a lot of the films exteriors took place, so leaving the theater at midnight was awesome because it was like stepping into Gotham.

[George]

As far as I am aware Raimi opted out of it himself due to scheduling? Sony certainly would not let a director who earned them over $800 million thrice to go like that.

Never thought Raimi's Spiderman films were all that great either and Spider-Man 3 was all kind of horrible in terms of plot, Mary Jane was an irrational idiot, Harry suffering from amnesia and I just cannot get past Sandman's "innocence" LOL SORRY GUY PUSHED INTO MY GUN IS WHY I KILLED YOUR UNCLE! At least they had decent fight scenes. 

Not excited by current one due to the random changes made, nor the design of the Lizard. He's meant to look like a lizard, why is that so hard?

What changes? You mean the award winning plot of his parents? Like I said, it is taken from the Ultimate Spiderman comics and to be honest they are pretty fucking good. Also that isn't changes from the comic arc, only the Amazing Spiderman arc... which I thought was pretty dull. I'm glad the Ultimate line up actually made his parents important instead of... "Oh, they died a long time ago... end of mention"

Also in the comics he was never just a lizard. He was half/half.


This is what a real lizard looks like...


Look at that. What a disadvantage. Spiderman can just jump over his head and its over since all the top of his body is exposed.

Now I just think everyone is hating Amazing Spiderman just to hate.

[Chaosmaster8753]

While we're on the subject of Amazing Spider-Man, check out this interesting detail:

http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/movies/oscorp-tower-nearly-appeared-in-the-avengers/14217

Well this is certainly a surprise! Latino Review have revealed that there were discussions between Disney and Sony about putting literally the best easter egg possible in the superhero team-up of a lifetime, The Avengers. Read their report below:

Imagine my surprise when I heard a rumor that the Oscorp Tower from Amazing Spider-Man was “this close” to becoming part of the sky line for Avengers. (Hint: pretty surprised)

Here’s the story – last week, The Amazing Spider-Man’s production designer J Michael Riva (he passed away recently after suffering a stroke at the age of 63). Not only did he design the Oscorp Tower for ASM, but he has a staggering resume of awesomeness including The Goonies, The Color Purple, A Few Good Men, Congo, Evolution, and the upcoming Django Unchained.

Oh – And the Iron Man movies.

That design overlap, and the stunning look of the Oscorp Tower (seriously stunning) was enough for Marvel Studios and Sony to have the discussion about inserting Oscorp into The Avengers skyline. The Unified Marvel Manhattan Skyline almost existed.

By the time the Oscorp building was fully designed, The Avengers digital Manhattan was already basically rendered and there was some up-conversion that needed to go down, so – for timing – it was scrapped.

BUT – Sony and Disney were going to let this happen. THAT’s the key thing here. Timing just didn’t work out.

It’s definitely too late for Sony to insert an Avengers easter egg into The Amazing Spider-Man as some press screenings have already taken place, but that doesn’t mean something like this can’t have better preparation for the future! Sound off with your thoughts on if Sony and Disney will try and blend their universes together in the future below.

[Aki-at]

What changes? You mean the award winning plot of his parents? Like I said, it is taken from the Ultimate Spiderman comics and to be honest they are pretty fucking good. Also that isn't changes from the comic arc, only the Amazing Spiderman arc... which I thought was pretty dull. I'm glad the Ultimate line up actually made his parents important instead of... "Oh, they died a long time ago... end of mention"

Also in the comics he was never just a lizard. He was half/half.


This is what a real lizard looks like...


Look at that. What a disadvantage. Spiderman can just jump over his head and its over since all the top of his body is exposed.

Now I just think everyone is hating Amazing Spiderman just to hate.

I know Parker's parents have had different origins from meaningless background deaths to they were double agents for the American government but I'm not sure if the director would be able to translate anything of worth onto the screens, he is a rookie isn't he? After what they did with Venom, I'm just slightly more cautious than I normally would be.

I am well aware of how the Lizard looks, you act like I do not know the first thing about Spider-Man! I am pointing out more to his facial structure itself. Compare the Lizard's head from the comics with what we got in the film itself. That was what I was talking about, it looks more human than lizard. Yes perhaps its a minor change but I do not see why they needed to change it.

Take it as my green eyes gripe if you will.

I should clarify that I really do want to look forward to it since Spidey happens to be one of my favourite superheroes. The Lizard happens to be my joint favourite Spider-Man villain (Along with Venom) but after what they did to Venom in the previous film and not liking the design they currently do have for the Lizard, I'm still a bit anxious. Could be a great film still, just not excited for it, yet, I'll probably get dragged into the hype for it like I did for Spider-Man 3 and go and watch it regardless.

[Barry the Nomad]

If they made Amazing Spider-Man a part of the Marvel cinematic universe, beyond subtle winks, then I'd be more accepting of the new Spider-Man for sure.

As is, mechanical web shooters, some characters being rearranged and a few more wise cracks are not enough reasons for a reboot in my opinion. But if, say, we see this version of Spider-Man in the second or third Avengers then I'd love it. Not Amazing Spider-Man itself, but the idea of Spider-Man sharing the screen with the rest of the Avengers.

Regarding Lizard, my beef is with how they're handling Conners. I prefer him to be a nice guy with good intentions, as he was when he was first in the comics. ASM is making him out to be an evil British dude with bad intentions from start to finish. Also, the design is pretty bad as Aki mentioned. Not a fan of the flat face and Joker-like mouth:



I much prefer the elongated snout:

[George]

You know whats a good reason? Toby McGuire being a shitty Spider-man. I said it, he was terrible and the only redeeming factor was Alfred Molina as Doctor Octopus in Spider-man 2. Which came out in 2004. The third movie is really shit. Why would anyone want a fourth installment?

Also the director for Amazing Spiderman directed 500 Days of Summer. A indie flick. Raimi was doubted as fuck when he was announced as director for Spider-man, since it was his first large budget flick. Not only that, he was only really known for a B movie, Evil Dead series and a few hollywood flicks that didn't do so well.

Now I think its a bit weird that people are doing this doubting all over again with this director. Also I think the Lizard looks like shit, I just didn't get the whole "Its suppose to look like a Lizard" when it didn't even look like one in the comics.

[Barry the Nomad]

I don't know, I don't think Tobey Maguire is enough of a reason for a reboot. Ideally, they should let the series take a rest after Spider-Man 3. I liked Tobey in the first two films, I thought he worked. In the third he suffered due to a script that caused him to have too many  scenes and too many  scenes. Which in the end resulted in only a sliver of the Peter from the first two movies. Shame.

I had no idea Raimi was "doubted as fuck" back in 2002. I had known of him at the time, and loved Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. Even if they were B movies, he had shown that even without CG and a big budget, he could handle impressive and fun action scenes. Not to mention Ash, and Darkman which people seem to forget about, proved that Raimi could handle heroes and superheros who were offbeat, not unlike Spider-Man. I think these strengths, coupled with a summer movie budget, resulted in some of the best comic book movie moments I've seen:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00fTwhmYX0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0oiKjLzTc[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJQR6SNMF8[/youtube]

As for Marc Webb, I have doubts in him from an action standpoint because the guy just does not have a history of it. He has proven he can handle teen romances, so I'm sure ASM will be loaded with that. But the action scenes, from what I've seen, don't look like they'll be anything special. The guy has one indie flick under his belt and a few music videos/music docs. Nothing that makes me see potential like I did with Raimi. And nothing action-wise that makes me think he'll have some sort of signature style.

Agreed, Lizard does look like shit. I'm not one of the people saying "Its suppose to look like a Lizard", but I do think "Its suppose to look like THE Lizard". Some are claiming that its based on the Lizards first appearance, but I'm not seeing the resemblance aside from a flatter face.



I actually prefer some of the prototypes for the design, mainly the ones with the longer snout:

[Aki-at]

Barry basically said everything that I said, but I should clear up one thing.

When I said he should look like a lizard, I do not mean he should look exactly like a Komodo Dragon. What I meant is he should at least have the facial features of a lizard. That is the lizard, his face, the head.



That is the Lizard to me. Not a proper reptile lizard, I did not mean that, but right now he looks like another version of Killer Croc, rather than the Lizard. And as I said, is it really that hard to do? Just the head.

[SOUP]

It's probably just so he can look more human when emoting things. Might get the actor's performance across better.