iPad: Who gives a shit?

[George]

I said that OSX, iPhone doesn't matter in changing the world to HTML5. In the end of the day they are just screwing consumers.

Again, most of those complaints can be fixed if the user can select to turn flash on. So what if it is not open. Like Apple is ONE to judge. Battery life again, would not matter if its off by default.

Flash 10 does support touch. Most of those complaints are mute, especially when Adobe tried to work with Apple to get it out there, they refused.  

Never thought I would read users that are against having options.

[crackdude]

Well, cause in reality everyone I know that owns an iPhone never gave a shit about Flash. Neither does the average user. So if developers want to get their product across, they better change their game. That's Apple's business.

And of course the iPhone matters. It's the center piece of our discussion here!

[Emmett The Crab]

I don't consider myself to be expert enough to know the difference, but George, why is Flash better than HTML 5?  The things I read about it make it seem like a dinosaur by comparison.  

Also, I think you meant moot not "mute."  A mute is someone who can't talk.

And Adobe can try to work with Apple as much as they want, but the scenario they want to avoid is an iPhone system update that invalidates a bunch of applications until Adobe gets off their butts and updates the tool that created them.  Apple's not going to wait for anybody before they update their own software.

[George]

It is not what is better, its what is used right now. You are talking about what is better, why not have a choice?

[Orta]

Flash and HTML 5 are very different things. They've been put side by side because of the video aspect of both of them.

Basically, Flash video sucks but it's supported across the board. There isn't an established video codec for HTML 5 but now that even Microsoft is supporting h.264 we may see an end to that discussion soon. HTML 5 is still on its baby steps, Flash has been around for well over a decade.

[Emmett The Crab]

It is not what is better, its what is used right now. You are talking about what is better, why not have a choice?

What's your feeling about the recent system update to the PS3 that takes away the ability to run other OS' like linux?  For me, I don't care because I never bothered to try to do that, but they took away the option.

Apple made a bold move, like when they dumped all their proprietary peripheral ports and said USB is the future.  People were upset, because their printers, mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc. were all worthless on any future machine, but it made the Macintosh world better.  Companies didn't have to worry about making a Mac-only peripheral anymore.  If Mac people didn't buy it, the PC crowd would.  I'm not worried about this change, and I never cared to have flash on my iPhone.  If some video or whatever is that important, I'll go to my Mac and look it up.

Given a choice between a crappy-performing phone and one that doesn't have flash on it, I'll take the latter.  I would rather have Apple dictate the content on my phone and have some quality control, and measurable performance, than a completely open platform where any garbage can get in.  That's not to say that Flash is garbage, but if it effects the performance and battery life, than good riddance.

[George]

I think its bullshit. I never bothered with it, but if there is a lawsuit, i will pin my fucking name on that shit. I think SONY should be sued for taking away features that people bought with their console.

Apple made a greedy move. Not a bold one. They dumped their proprietary ports? No one used it. Maybe they should have their apple products support Mini USB, then I will be impressed instead of releasing some shitty iPod that only uses Apple headphones.

Given a chance to have a choice between flash or not, you choose not? Of course. Apple says no. Because having the choice of NOT using it (like you are not using it now) would be so tragic. God forbid we are allowed to have free will.

[Emmett The Crab]

I think its bullshit. I never bothered with it, but if there is a lawsuit, i will pin my fucking name on that shit. I think SONY should be sued for taking away features that people bought with their console.

Apple made a greedy move. Not a bold one. They dumped their proprietary ports? No one used it. Maybe they should have their apple products support Mini USB, then I will be impressed instead of releasing some shitty iPod that only uses Apple headphones.

Given a chance to have a choice between flash or not, you choose not? Of course. Apple says no. Because having the choice of NOT using it (like you are not using it now) would be so tragic. God forbid we are allowed to have free will.

What do you mean, no one used it?  No one used printers, mice and keyboards?

What iPod are you talking about?  I've never seen any iPod where you couldn't use any headphones you want.  Now you're just making stuff up.  Your arguments don't make any sense, like you saying the iPhone OS doesn't matter in this argument, and OSX is a small percentage. If it doesn't matter, why do you keep talking about it?

I'm not saying I would rather not have the choice, I'm saying I don't care.  But if it's going to slow down my device and kill the battery, who needs it?  You're trying to make it this philosophical debate, that Apple wants to tell us what we can and can't have on our phones, but I trust them to make a good choice.  The first iPhone OS didn't allow apps at all, but they realized that was a mistake, and fixed it.  What they have done has been really successful.  If this flash thing turns out to be a mistake, I think they will correct it.  It doesn't seem like a mistake to me.

[George]

I was talking about the iPod shuffle. Did you forget they existed?
"Unlike most other portable audio players, the iPod Shuffle's controls are situated on the packaged headphones. One will be unable to control the device unless they use either Apple headphones designed for the 3rd-generation Shuffle, or third-party headphones or adapters that must be licensed by Apple."

Typical Apple move. It is not 'making stuff up'. Very insulting. Its just a company. Again, we are talking about a product, I said why I have yet to buy it and you and Crackdude are telling me why flash does not  matter and how 'Steve Jobs' is going to 'lead HTML5' to mainstream, because its the better format.

I'm saying that shutting down choice is bad. You are saying its good and support not having choices on your phone.

[Emmett The Crab]

I didn't even know that iPod Shuffle existed.  I've never cared for the iPod Shuffle.  I was wrong, you didn't make it up.  

Sorry but it's weird that you used that as an example.  It's a $59.00 jogger's ipod that's meant to be as simple as possible.  Vote with your wallet.  

Why do you keep making arguments that don't make sense, then ignoring us when we point it out.  When I make a mistake, I acknowledge it.  

1)  What do you mean when you say iPhone doesn't matter?  That's what this whole discussion is about!  The iPad runs iPhone OS.  Then you bring up OSX.  Did you actually believe OSX doesn't support flash?

I'm more forgiving about lack of flash on a phone, since I hate watching videos from phones.

Minority?

Majority of sites use flash. Minority of people use apple OS's. I guess I'm the majority in actuality.

iPhone? Hardly counts. Not many phones support any type of flash. Does not change the war of Flash for adobe at all. Android is getting Flash support soon and Nokia's already got it.

OSX has gotten less than 10% of the market share.

2)  What do you mean, no one used it?  You can't say stuff like that and expect us not to call you on it.

 

They dumped their proprietary ports? No one used it. Maybe they should have their apple products support Mini USB...

3)  Why do you tell me what I'm saying without an actual quote?  You even put 'lead HTML5' in quotes like I said it.  Nice propaganda.  

you and Crackdude are telling me why flash does not matter and how 'Steve Jobs' is going to 'lead HTML5' to mainstream, because its the better format.

I'm saying that shutting down choice is bad. You are saying its good and support not having choices on your phone.

Below is what I actually said, if you had bothered to read it.  

Sorry for the double post, but mine have been getting too long. I agree with you, George. Even on my laptop I have a full keyboard plugged into it. As for Flash Support. It looks like Apple is trying to force the change. They say Flash would eat a ton of battery life if it was on the iPhone. They want the world to move on to HTML 5. I don't know if it will happen, and I think for right now yours is a legitimate gripe. Apple has never had problems with this type of growing pains, where the Windows PC world likes to ease into changes instead of making violent, swift adjustments like Apple does. I don't judge either philosophy, but I've hitched my wagon to Apple, so I'm along for the ride.

I voted for Obama too.

Why ready what I actually said, when you can just make it up?  Why read the CEO of Apple's reason for abandoning Flash on mobile platforms, when you already have the George explanation.  

This is just a theory, but suppose they could switch Flash on, and the the phone takes a hit on performance.  Guess how PC magazines and the competitors would benchmark it from then on.  Then people would talk on forums about how slow it is, and how fast the battery dies, and how the Joojoo looks a ton better.

[George]

I don't know how I can make this as simple as possible to you Emmet. But I will try. You said that 'Steve Job' is supporting HTML5, so its ballsy and he is changing stuff. HTML5 will go ahead and become a standard, not because iphone doesn't support flash, but because over 800 companies are backing HTML with H.264. http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC ... nsees.aspx

Thus, I don't think that Apple alone would have 'moved it froward'.

You want to see Ballsy? Mozilla refuses to support H.264 on principle and is backing Theora, even though its the losing side. Apple jumps on a format they own patent for? Whats new.

Sorry if I don't believe Apple worth shit about the battery life issue, they also said it did not support touch screens and there are plenty of videos out there from a few months back proving them wrong.

[Barry the Nomad]

Guys, with all this back and forth you're forgetting the big news of the day: A new Bentley Jones video!!!

[Orta]

Person 1: I'm not watching if it's Flash.

Person 2: I'm not watching if it's h.264.

Me: I'm not watching because it's BJ.

[George]

Its not that I won't watch it if its h.264. I want the choice of also playing flash content.

BJ is great. New video is amazing.

[Emmett The Crab]

I don't know how I can make this as simple as possible to you Emmet. But I will try. You said that 'Steve Job' is supporting HTML5, so its ballsy and he is changing stuff. HTML5 will go ahead and become a standard, not because iphone doesn't support flash, but because over 800 companies are backing HTML with H.264. http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC ... nsees.aspx

Thus, I don't think that Apple alone would have 'moved it froward'.

You want to see Ballsy? Mozilla refuses to support H.264 on principle and is backing Theora, even though its the losing side. Apple jumps on a format they own patent for? Whats new.

Sorry if I don't believe Apple worth shit about the battery life issue, they also said it did not support touch screens and there are plenty of videos out there from a few months back proving them wrong.

You still don't address the specific issues I mentioned.  I even put numbers on them to make it easier for you.  

Why do you put quotes on stuff 'Steve Job', 'moved it froward' and then misspell them?  Is that your way of saying I'm stupid?  Look how dumb Emmett is, when I misquote him, he spells everything wrong!  I also never used the word Ballsy.  

I would say that they make the decision and stick with it on principal, and I explain my understanding of why, and that I personally don't really care or miss it.  I certainly never said apple 'moved it froward'

You say there are videos of touch-screen flash videos.  Fine, whatever.  I've never seen one, and I don't care.  You don't believe Apple about the battery life of their own products...  Apparently you know more about their hardware than they do.  Congratulations.  I get it, you want Apple's mobile devices to have a switch to turn Flash on or off, even though their OS doesn't matter.  You are very demanding about the products you don't buy.  Stick with the Joojoo then.  Post a review on it for us.