Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else

[Team Andromeda]

yet you talk about them. All of these games were published by Sega or made by Western Studios

Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.

And if we can count western devs now, Sega has now Relic, Creative Assembly, Hardlight, Three Rings...yeah. And that is as much as the "10" consumer divisions they had in the DC Era.

So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios

On Lindbergh they have released 4 racing games (R-Tuned, Race TV, Hummer, Harley Davidson...), HotD 4, EX, 2Spicy Ghost Squad Sequel and the Let's go.... games. Also there are the 2 interresting Shining Cross and Border Break games, that are frequently updated. Lots of stuff on Lindbergh/Ringedge. Overall tough yeah the Model 2/3 stuff was more and better at the time obviously.

Arcade is not in question . You make a lovely list and quite a lot of those games will never be ported home, nor to the current Arcade teams have home consumer pipe lines (well AM#3 do and to a point AM#2).

Your the one saying they hardly had anything to do with the game not me

No I said they help to make the game, which they did.

The MD had beter first party support, second party support and beter third party titles

1st party - When it comes tot that the Saturn and Snes got the best out of the likes of SEGA and Nintendo respectively imo. 

Oh yes, because Sonic is a shining example of what i'm on about,

No different from Streets Of Rage . Using SEGA IP and where Yuzo's made the music and helped out with the making of the game, Only he wasn't able to trademark the music, not was he was Shenmue.

Next thing you will be using STAR WARS ARCADE as an example

Who do you credit for that game? SEGA or Lucas Arts- because they own the IP rights ? . So no try again , its just shows you what IP rights can do .

[ROJM]

Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.

So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios

You just contradicted yourself. Trips is talking about the ammount of studios that they back in the MD era that Sega had which included western studios. but of course ECCO and TOE JAM AND EARL was made by the brilliant minds of AM2. Gimme a break. You bag him on it then give him an example of western sega studios which include companies from the DC saturn and MD eras. Geez.

Arcade is not in question .

Still not answered the question though.

No I said they help to make the game, which they did.

No they didn't help make the game. They co developed it. CO DEVELOPED it. Not helped.

1st party - When it comes tot that the Saturn and Snes got the best out of the likes of SEGA and Nintendo respectively imo. 

Wrong. The megadrive got the best out of Sega mainly with the ammount of titles, quality of titles and sheer ingenious of making the MD do things it wasn't designed for. Something that Nintendo nor the saturn was able to do.

No different from Streets Of Rage . Using SEGA IP and where Yuzo's made the music and helped out with the making of the game, Only he wasn't able to trademark the music, not was he was Shenmue.

He did trademark the music of SOR. What planet have you been? Using SHENMUE and Sonic really is a moot point when the main games he worked on he was trademarking his music.

Who do you credit for that game? SEGA or Lucas Arts- because they own the IP rights ? . So no try again , its just shows you what IP rights can do .

Oh you mean the fact Sega made STAR WARS ARCADE without Lucasfilm's permission and then they threatened to sue them until they came to an agrement? Oh yes IP rights dont do anything. Try again.









[/quote]

[MadeManG74]

Not that anyone cares but SEGA announced a new iOS game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgoHPdNaYo

It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff.

[Team Andromeda]

It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff

This is what I'm talking about . These days even die-hard SEGA fans don't get excited by so called big SEGA announcements

that Sega had which included western studios. but of course ECCO and TOE JAM AND EARL was made by the brilliant minds of AM2.

Stop it . I could make a huge list of titles that SEGA published in the Saturn and DC days - You know games like Quake, Quake 3, Duke, Enemy Zero, Amok, D2,Seaman and so on.

Those aren't In-House games by SOJ.

Still not answered the question though

 

If you don't like a Arcade game, why would want (and then buy) a home of port of the 'said' Arcade game ? . How about you answer that?

Something that Nintendo nor the saturn was able to do

Now you make me laugh . Given a lot of the better MD games wasn't even made in House , I'll look over that . But if we listen to some the Saturn wasn't able to do 3D , never mind being able to handle ports of the most advanced Arcade board at the time (mode 2) .

Yet SEGA gave us the likes of Zwei with PS beating graphics, the best RPG you'll ever play and near perfect ports of Model 2 games like Virtual Cop, Rally and having VF II running at the same speed and higher res than any Model 2 coin up;That's what happens when you have the brilliant minds at AM#2 on the case for you.

And if you want to quality then F-Zero, Pioltwings, Mario IV and Super Metroid will do nicely

He did trademark the music of SOR. What planet have you been

I'm on about Sonic and how Ancient handle the GameGear/MS ports and yet Yuzo wasn't able to trademark the music even though his team made the games for SEGA.

Oh you mean the fact Sega made STAR WARS ARCADE without Lucasfilm's permission

 

Been reading again ? . I'm just pointing out that the IP holder now and gain has little or next to nothing to with the game.

Who do you credit for Far Cry on the X-Box  Ubisoft Mon or the then IP holders Crytek?. What about TombRaider do you credit Edios for making the games ?. Look at Demon Souls is that a SONY game or a Fromsoftware game and even though I'm sure SONY still hold the rights (to Japan) it never stop FromSoftware for making the sequel for rival machines and a different publisher

IP is a messy business, but I tend to give credit to the developers myself 

[ROJM]

This is what I'm talking about . These days even die-hard SEGA fans don't get excited by so called big SEGA announcements

You wouldn't know what makes a sega fan excited because you're hardly a sega fan yourself. Mr I think Nintendo made beter games than Sega did on the MD.

Stop it . I could make a huge list of titles that SEGA published in the Saturn and DC days - You know games like Quake, Quake 3, Duke, Enemy Zero, Amok, D2,Seaman and so on.

Those aren't In-House games by SOJ.

Enemy Zero was a second party game at that basis so was D2 and SEAMAN Kinda what i've been making with SHINING FORCE. Never said SOJ made the titles. Learn to read.Stay in SCHOOL.

If you don't like a Arcade game, why would want (and then buy) a home of port of the 'said' Arcade game ? . How about you answer that?

Yawn, funny you keep repeating something i never actually said. Now If you played and loved Sega arcade games and thought they were good back in the mid noughties why didn't you say they were good when people were bashing Sega for their entire games output?  Now i actually played Sega arcade games, in the arcades  and obviously longer than you have. I can tell you that their output has diminished from 2010 onwards. Any arcade fan can attest to that because the type of games they are making aren't exciting or original anymore. Its funny how you thought they were making a good showing last year. Which goes to show you haven't a clue about Sega's arcade output. But go read system 16, you know the site you keep advising me to read to catch up on the scene. While i go and actually play the games when i go on my next business trip.

Now you make me laugh .

You've been making me laugh for a while now.

Given a lot of the better MD games wasn't even made in House , I'll look over that . But if we listen to some the Saturn wasn't able to do 3D , never mind being able to handle ports of the most advanced Arcade board at the time (mode 2) .

Strange because i covered the whole MD spectrum. But keep repeating what i said in your own words, so you can look like you know what you're talking about.

Yet SEGA gave us the likes of Zwei with PS beating graphics, the best RPG you'll ever play and near perfect ports of Model 2 games like Virtual Cop, Rally and having VF II running at the same speed and higher res than any Model 2 coin up;That's what happens when you have the brilliant minds at AM#2 on the case for you.

So? A handful of great saturn titles doesn't make it a better games system. Its the least supported Sega system from Sega across the board.

And if you want to quality then F-Zero, Pioltwings, Mario IV and Super Metroid will do nicely

SHINING FORCE, RANGER X TOE JAM AND EARL SONIC CD SONIC 2 SOR 1 and 2 AFTERBURNER 2 GOLDEN AXE GUNSTAR HEROES LANDSTALKER VIRTUA RACING,(which holds up nicely compared to Starfox) I can go on and on. The point is you cant because the list of great SNES games are limited. And as a supposed Sega core fan, someone defending the SNES says it al there is to know about you. its no wonder you support the Saturn, limited Sega software but abundant in third party support.

I'm on about Sonic and how Ancient handle the GameGear/MS ports and yet Yuzo wasn't able to trademark the music even though his team made the games for SEGA.

Im on about the majority of games he did with sega being trademarked. A handful of titles doesn't prove your point,when the point was he was allowed to do it quite early on.
 

Been reading again ? . I'm just pointing out that the IP holder now and gain has little or next to nothing to with the game.

I'm not the one who needed to read about Climax or go onto their website to find out whether or not they were involved in making SHINING. Strange that considering that you claim to be playing titles at the time. As for IP, It has everything to do with the game because its the protection of the games character and characters source material and likeness.

Who do you credit for Far Cry on the X-Box  Ubisoft Mon or the then IP holders Crytek?. What about TombRaider do you credit Edios for making the games ?. Look at Demon Souls is that a SONY game or a Fromsoftware game and even though I'm sure SONY still hold the rights (to Japan) it never stop FromSoftware for making the sequel for rival machines and a different publisher

You really haven't a clue. You keep using titles that has nothing to do with the argument. This isn't like THE CONDUIT that Sega picked up to publish but High Voltage kept the rights to the title mainly because they made the games independently without a big games backer. The Platinum games were made soley by using the money that Sega gave that company to develop them. The fact you keep using games that has nothing to do with that type of practise indicates you are just arguing for the sake of it.Why because you lost this argument 10 posts back.

IP is a messy business, but I tend to give credit to the developers myself

Its only messy to those who have no idea how it works. Just like you.

[Trippled]

Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.

So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios

Arcade is not in question . You make a lovely list and quite a lot of those games will never be ported home, nor to the current Arcade teams have home consumer pipe lines (well AM#3 do and to a point AM#2).

Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime.

You don't see me mentioning stuff like Bleach, Miku, Doraemon, or whatever else as important and noteworthy Sega developed games this Generation.

Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan.

Also even back then, many Arcade game weren't ported to consoles.

Particularly Model 3 stuff.

[ROJM]

Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime.

You don't see me mentioning stuff like Bleach, Miku, Doraemon, or whatever else as important and noteworthy Sega developed games this Generation.

Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan.

Also even back then, many Arcade game weren't ported to consoles.

Particularly Model 3 stuff.

Problem is Trips, you won the point ages back. Now TA will keep throwing stuff at you that has nothing to do with the original point you made just so he can win/beat you in another silly argument.That's how he operates I'm afraid.

Overall I do feel that Dreamcast and Genesis Era SEGA definitly was better on the Consumer side.

I just think that since they went 3rd Party they operate very simiilarly like they did in the Saturn Era. Focused on the Japanese audience, and a good amount of output was Arcade only.

That's been the problem. It was understandable at the time. Sega needed the money quickly when they became a thirdparty and started to make more or provide more sequels to their japan centric games. This got worse when the next great hope, Xbox bombed for Sega because no one in great abundance was buying the mainstream Sega titles. So they ended up focusing on japan because they were the games that were successful.   

[Aki-at]

It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff.

Well you can thank SEGA Europe/America for killing any chances of SEGA Japan (Or any Japanese games SEGA might want to publish) being relevant here. Clear to see that they think none of us would be interested in playing as Japanese robots, they probably think we would rather play as some sort of American soldier.

I mean look, we could have been playing Virtua Striker and Virtual On instead of the garbage that is Aliens, but no! Us Westerns are too mainstream to be into that, but don't doubt SEGA America or Europe! They are run by proper businessmen you know? Suits no what they are doing even though they have no experience in video games because they are BUSINESSMEN!

[ROJM]

Has anyone actually played ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES yet or are we repeating stuff from what reviewers said? Im not going to judge until i've actually played the title before condemning Sega west or this title. It seems to me there's a quick kneejerk reaction here to a game that everyone wanted to be good. Well we have all seen it before with Sega that whenever they release a title that they want to be successful, the reviewers come out in force just to knock it down. BINARY DOMAIN suffered that fate. So why am i going to listen to what reviewers say when we all know half of them have an anti Sega slant. All Sega west is guilty of is their poor marketing skills among other things and SOJ's indirection of what they want the SEGA brand to be about. VO and VS should be released here but i'm not going to blame another game because those two titles didn't get the chance(yet) to be released.

[Team Andromeda]

Well you can thank SEGA Europe/America for killing any chances of SEGA Japan (Or any Japanese games SEGA might want to publish) being relevant here

High Time we blamed SEGA Japan far too late getting behind a multi platform route, next gen pipelines that were well behind the rest

I mean look, we could have been playing Virtua Striker and Virtual On instead of the garbage that is Alien

What Model  2 ports is the way forward for SEGA. I got news for you mate, not many Japanese went out on bought the likes of VO Force on the 360.

SEGA Japan needs to take a lot of the blame . Out of them all SEGA Europe done a pretty good job

Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for AnimeWell ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime

They were all In-House,  Blueseed and MKR sold in ok numbers and lots of times Art will be outsourced to a design group be that Lunar, Virtual ON, Fighting Vipers II , Sakura Wars and so on .

Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan

Play and finish the game and the credits read like a who's who of SEGA . It was a CS software game , don't read Wikipedia .

Particularly Model 3 stuff

VF 3, SEGA Rally II, Get Bass, VO II, Virtual Striker not ported to the DC ?. Never mind the countless NA@MI ported to the system

 

[Team Andromeda]

. BINARY DOMAIN suffered that fate. So why am i going to listen to what reviewers say when we all know half of them have an anti Sega slant

BD got very nice reviews in the press, It was SEGA's inept PR dept that let the side down.


I have Aliens it is poor (not has bad has some make out) but yes its a 5 to 6 out 10 game and the bugs (no pun meant) and AI in the game are a complete joke . SEGA should take Gearbox to court and sue the pants off them for this unfinished game .

[ROJM]

BD got very nice reviews in the press, It was SEGA's inept PR dept that let the side down.


I have Aliens it is poor (not has bad has some make out) but yes its a 5 to 6 out 10 game and the bugs (no pun meant) and AI in the game are a complete joke . SEGA should take Gearbox to court and sue the pants off them for this unfinished game .

BD got mixed reviews in the press, more negative than good. And you know, that i put the blame for BD's poor showing in the PR thing. Sometimes i wonder if this is payback for what happened over YAKUZA when it was meant to debut at the E3, but the same people cant still be working there. Point is reviews are not really a guide to whether a game is good or bad anymore. Not how they were back in the days when games were games and game reviewers were actually games players.

[ROJM]

High Time we blamed SEGA Japan far too late getting behind a multi platform route, next gen pipelines that were well behind the rest

Dont start that again. I dont think and the evidence is out there that multiplatform games would have helped Sega at all back in that period. If anything the same pattern keeps happening. SOJ games sell poorly, Sega west or Sega second party titles sold across platforms sell quite strongly. Only Sonic is the exception.

What Model  2 ports is the way forward for SEGA. I got news for you mate, not many Japanese went out on bought the likes of VO Force on the 360.

They didn't buy MARZ either but then that wasn't a port and it wasn't that good either.

SEGA Japan needs to take a lot of the blame . Out of them all SEGA Europe done a pretty good job

SOJ management has been out of sync for a while now. Surely i thought things might have changed with Satomi around but all he's done is let the Sega management do their own thing while he does whatever he does, mainly buying up stupid toy companies. Definatly there need to be more blood in the SOJ setup across the board.

They were all In-House,  Blueseed and MKR sold in ok numbers and lots of times Art will be outsourced to a design group be that Lunar, Virtual ON, Fighting Vipers II , Sakura Wars and so on .
Play and finish the game and the credits read like a who's who of SEGA . It was a CS software game , don't read Wikipedia

I dont think Trips said they weren't Inhouse. What he said art and design was done outside of SOJ as well as the fact that those games were licensed at least some of them. In that he was correct as well as the games being obscure. MAGIC KNIGHT RAYEARTH though was a big title but EVANGELION and SAKURA TAISEN defiantly overshadowed it at that period. 

VF 3, SEGA Rally II, Get Bass, VO II, Virtual Striker not ported to the DC ?. Never mind the countless NA@MI ported to the system

Pity the saturn didn't get enuff  Sega ports. Which is why its my frustrating machine. Great potential never realised.

 

[Team Andromeda]

BD got mixed reviews in the press, more negative than good. And you know, that i put the blame for BD's poor showing in the PR thing

Where?  it got quite nice reviews in the major sites like IGN and Eurogamer . Sure the review marks should have been higher, but it did quite well in the reviews stakes .

They didn't buy MARZ either but then that wasn't a port and it wasn't that good either

It wasn't great for sure , but it sold way more than the DC or 360 VO games, maybe even more than the Saturn version in the end .

Surely i thought things might have changed with Satomi around but all he's done is let the Sega management do their own thing while he does whatever he does

He promised a end to constant studio changes , yet under him SEGA Japan gone through countless In-Studio changes.

What he said art and design was done outside of SOJ as well as the fact that those games

Art can always be handled outside and its happened in many In-House SEGA games. That wasn't the point:but In-House games and Western tiles ; All the games I listed were made In-House and no western at all. It was SEGA Japan that their best really .

Pity the saturn didn't get enuff

Saturn had plenty of Model 2 ports and then quite a lot of Arcade ST-V from SEGA and other corps  as well as countless CP 2 ports and so on . DC and Saturn was a golden era for Arcade ports for many and where SEGA AM# Team also really took on developing consumer titles to their heart and not only tried to out do each other, but the consumer Teams them self . It still amazing to see how close AM#2 got Virtual Cop and AM#3 with Last Bronx to their Arcade counterparts given the massive gulf in spec's between the systems

The Mega CD was the system that SOJ letdown with little Arcade ports , sad given it had the Hardware to handle the games at the time

I don't think and the evidence is out there that multiplatform games would have helped Sega at all back in that period

SEGA Japan looked too much at home in the beginning . It was clear games made for the west and multi platform was the way to go very early in  . Sadly SEGA was late to see that, lets hope SOJ doesn't make the same mistake next gen.







 

[ROJM]

Where?  it got quite nice reviews in the major sites like IGN and Eurogamer . Sure the review marks should have been higher, but it did quite well in the reviews stakes .

Oh you can find them. Plenty of mags, negative, mixed positive. Shame really

It wasn't great for sure , but it sold way more than the DC or 360 VO games, maybe even more than the Saturn version in the end .

Well of course it did it was on a bigger system but 120 000 copies isn't much in my book.

He promised a end to constant studio changes , yet under him SEGA Japan gone through countless In-Studio changes.

Unfortunately that's just the tip of the iceberg. An iceberg that helped sink the Titanic and ended up sinking as well. Anyway not my problem now.

Art can always be handled outside and its happened in many In-House SEGA games. That wasn't the point:but In-House games and Western tiles ; All the games I listed were made In-House and no western at all. It was SEGA Japan that their best really .

That wasn't even Trips point either. But he can say what his point was not me.

Saturn had plenty of Model 2 ports and then quite a lot of Arcade ST-V from SEGA and other corps  as well as countless CP 2 ports and so on . DC and Saturn was a golden era for Arcade ports for many and where SEGA AM# Team also really took on developing consumer titles to their heart and not only tried to out do each other, but the consumer Teams them self . It still amazing to see how close AM#2 got Virtual Cop and AM#3 with Last Bronx to their Arcade counterparts given the massive gulf in spec's between the systems

Come on, there were tons more Sega arcade titles that never saw the light of day on the Saturn that should have and output from the SOJ consumer teams, in house and second party? That was a joke. Sure we got some classics but not as many as the saturn deserved. And definatly not all of them that weren't international and wasn't japan centric If anything i see that system as being the perfect and closest game system that Capcom never made.

The Mega CD was the system that SOJ letdown with little Arcade ports , sad given it had the Hardware to handle the games at the time

But that system was covered with everything else by Sega but really it was an addon. The Saturn was a bonafide console that should have gotten a bit more and better.

SEGA Japan looked too much at home in the beginning . It was clear games made for the west and multi platform was the way to go very early in  . Sadly SEGA was late to see that, lets hope SOJ doesn't make the same mistake next gen.

SOJ didn't have a choice to but to look home. Anyhow i disagree that they just focused at the japan market at the beginning its just the titles they were really batting for with western appeal didn't do well and other games ended up getting canned. now is this due to management? Yes to a degree it is but other factors did play there part.But you can't soley blame Sega for this i blame the consumers to a part, Sega's free wheeling with their subsidiaries/teams at the time among other things. Also while SOJ ended up focusing on one market they went the other way with Sega west by focusing too much on america and europe which ended up hurting the SOJ releases earmarked for the west. I keep harping on about the genesis era and i do because it was a perfect balance between what the divisions of sega had to do to become the big player in the home games market. At this moment in time while they have the inhouse talent, have the pull to attract the best contract studios and have some of the best of western development, Sega has failed to ultilise any of this and appears that they cant lead themselves out of a friging paperbag. I hope things might change but i put my money where my mouth is and sold any intrest in Sega i use to have apart from a 1 percentage. If they get better that's good, but im not wiling to take that risk with them anymore. I perfer to be a long suffering fan that buys their games and not one that has a stake in them.