Is 2013 one of SEGA's worst years ever? (Long-winded rant)

[Team Andromeda]

SEGA aren't as consistant as they used to be, but they ARE the good Apple in the bad bunch in the fruit basket. Konami's molded long ago and Capcpon seems to have been unripe in it's bank balance.

SEGA, in comparison, is doing much better than most Japanese Developers it seems.

Konami make a lot of money and Capcom just like SEGA did a few years back is spending a lot in order to restructure its self , otherwise Capcom been doing rather well this gen with a fantasic multi purpose and platform engine and multi million sellers on all formats and in all the key markets.

Overall though, the problem is clearly on the Western front in regards to localising games the fans want but can't have.

I don't know, other than Yakuza, PSO 2 is there really that much worth brining over from SEGA Japan this year ? . To me the trouble is SEGA Japan just aren't doing much of note on the major console these days

If they ultimately fail as a third party the implications are more bleak because it would be the end

It does have its Arcade business side and more offten than not , that's the side that makes money for SEGA

[ROJM]

It does have its Arcade business side and more offten than not , that's the side that makes money for SEGA

Not enough to stop their huge money problems and getting taken over by Sammy, the arcade market isn't as big as it once was for Sega even in Japan. And even if it was enough it still would be the end as many people don't have access to an arcade centre anymore in the states, as well as the fact that certain games aren't imported to the west by Sega anymore.

Konami make a lot of money and Capcom just like SEGA did a few years back is spending a lot in order to restructure its self , otherwise Capcom been doing rather well this gen with a fantasic multi purpose and platform engine and multi million sellers on all formats and in all the key markets.

Stop selling the "Sega should be like Capcom" bit. Capcom are way in the red, posting a very poor profit this year alone. Even when Sega was having its money issues they were in no way of danger of going out of buisness which is what the "almighty" Capcom are in danger of being. I wouldn't be suprised if Capcom was the next games corp that gets taken over after years being in debt. And you reckon that Capcom is bigger than Sega when it comes to third parties in Japan. Gimme a break.

[Team Andromeda]

Not enough to stop their huge money problems and getting taken over by Sammy, the arcade market isn't as big as it once was for Sega even in Japan

We've changed our tune on the Arcade side I see and no the Arcade business wasn't enough , but that was thanks to the huge debt mountain built up with the sad failure of the DC. Without the consumer side SEGA would have been a rather profitable crop for the last 15 years or so

Stop selling the "Sega should be like Capcom" bit. Capcom are way in the red, posting a very poor profit this year alone

Never said that here . And no Capcom are not in the red , they've been making profits for most of this generation and you can bet thanks alone to monster sales of Monster Hunter 4 they'll be making rather nice profits for this year too already

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Capcom was the next games corp that gets taken over after years being in debt.

Lol Capcom isn't it debt and it only made a modest profit this year, becasue it spent a massive £46 million on getting it Teams ready for the next generation and is looking to double its staff .




 

[ROJM]

We've changed our tune on the Arcade side I see and no the Arcade business wasn't enough , but that was thanks to the huge debt mountain built up with the sad failure of the DC. Without the consumer side SEGA would have been a rather profitable crop for the last 15 years or so

No "we" haven't changed anything, its more you have. The arcade side wasn't enough back then and it isn't now, its actually smaller then it was in 2003 and i'm talking about Japan. I never said they weren't sucessful in it. You on the other hand did.

Never said that here .

yes you did, you keep saying Sega should have multi format teams do multi lines of development and keep using Capcom as an example. Well it isn't Sega that's in the red is it.

And no Capcom are not in the red , they've been making profits for most of this generation and you can bet thanks alone to monster sales of Monster Hunter 4 they'll be making rather nice profits for this year too already

No they haven't..

Capcom has forecast even slimmer returns for the next fiscal year, with only 13 million unit sales expected from a line-up that includes Lost Planet 3, Monster Hunter 4 and Dead Rising 3. Monster Hunter 4, which is scheduled for release this month, seems likely to meet its expected 2.8 million sales by the end of March 2014. The console release of Resident Evil: Revelations, launched in May, should also hit its relatively lowly 1.2 million target. But Lost Planet 3 is another matter - it may only need to sell 1.2 million to meet expectations, but it is off to a poor start in Japan, and its sales in the UK suggest that it will be among the calendar year's most notable failures. Between them, Capcom's three biggest console releases for the rest of this fiscal year are not expected to sell more than an under-performing Resident Evil 6 managed in six months.

They've had a bad year this year and are forecast to have a bad one next year which is what prompted the CEO of Capcom to say this...

I regret to say that, up to now, we had few plans for the full-scale implementation of DLC," said COO Haruhiro Tsujimoto. "From here on out, we need to focus on the long-term provision of content starting at the earliest stages of development. Furthermore, in terms of user response, if the additional related content we are providing continually to users online is deemed uninteresting from the start, there will be no ongoing business to pursue. This means that, more than ever before, the creation of underlying content is the key to success."

Really they've been sucesful this gen? When they only made 22 million in profit for 2010? LOL! Compared to how Sega is doing that's bad and especially for Capcom "standards". Everyone apart from you (suprise suprise) are saying that Capcom is in real trouble. But if you think having  $152 million dollars in the bank for this year in profit is healthly for a games company the size of Capcom compared to Sega's net profit of $331 million then your having a laugh.



 

Lol Capcom isn't it debt and it only made a modest profit this year, becasue it spent a massive £46 million on getting it Teams ready for the next generation and is looking to double its staff .

They in worse shape than Sega ever was.




 

[Team Andromeda]

They've had a bad year this year and are forecast to have a bad one next year which is what prompted the CEO of Capcom to say this...

I'm seeing no losses in debt in any of that .

The arcade side wasn't enough back then and it isn't now,

It was, thanks alone to the Arcade side SEGA was able to post a profit in 2002 after the sales of VF IV- Which I still think holds the record in japan,  for the best money making coin up  in Japan (none Jamma).

Well it isn't Sega that's in the red is it.

You do make me laugh , SEGA had 1 good year and you think that's it . Capcom isn't in the red , it hasn't got a huge debt mountain and its profits only had a hard time this year thanks to spending billions on an restructure: when SEGA done that it made a huge loss (85 million) in comparsion 

yes you did

Never in this thread and its quite clear.

But if you think having  $152 million dollars in the bank for this year in profit is healthly for a games company the size of Capcom

I don't know where you get these figs , but less any time a corp makes over a $100 Million in profits after paying for all the overheads in doing fine .

Sega's net profit of $331 million

Well the real profit is half that fig, I would have though a person who's meant to be in the Stock market would know the diff between Net and operating profits .

Also Capcom sell way more units than SEGA. Selling just 11 million software titles isn't really good enough for a corp of SEGA size

[ROJM]

I'm seeing no losses in debt in any of that .

Everyone including the COO of capcom does...

It was, thanks alone to the Arcade side SEGA was able to post a profit in 2002 after the sales of VF IV- Which I still think holds the record in japan,  for the best money making coin up  in Japan (none Jamma).

And a year later Sammy took over them. Case closed.

You do make me laugh , SEGA had 1 good year and you think that's it . Capcom isn't in the red , it hasn't got a huge debt mountain and its profits only had a hard time this year thanks to spending billions on an restructure: when SEGA done that it made a huge loss (85 million) in comparsion 

Sega has had more good years than that since they've been a third party. All i'm saying which everyone else from anyalists and newssites alike is saying Capcom is having a real rough time of it contary of what you have said. Funny you haven't proven me wrong..wait you can't.

Never in this thread and its quite clear.

because you only see what you want to see TA, your dealings with aki is evident of that.

I don't know where you get these figs , but less any time a corp makes over a $100 Million in profits after paying for all the overheads in doing fine .

No they're not if they were called Capcom or EA. If they were called Atlus then maybe you have a point.

Well the real profit is half that fig, I would have though a person who's meant to be in the Stock market would know the diff between Net and operating profits .

That is the real figure. I'm using net profits. That's the net profits which i said. But of course why let the truth get in the way eh TA?

Also Capcom sell way more units than SEGA. Selling just 11 million software titles isn't really good enough for a corp of SEGA size

And still only made 22 million in 2010 And having a bad year this year too. That's far from being succesful as you keep trumping out.

[Team Andromeda]

And a year later Sammy took over them. Case closed.

Yes Thanks to the Huge debt mountain built up by the Dreamcast . The Arcade side did rather well with growth and NA@MI and NA@MI II being massive sellers the world over . Even in this generation the Arcade side as made plenty of money, while the consumer side has posted a number of losses.

Everyone including the COO of capcom does...

You do make me laugh . The article you're quoting form makes it quite clear that Capcom made a profit of $31 million dollars

Sega has had more good years than that since they've been a third party

They've had a few decent years , but Konami and Capcom haven't posted a loss at all this generation unlike SEGA .

No they're not if they were called Capcom or EA

Capcom are a small outfit with some 1000 staff and yet make good money and shift loads of software, they are not really in trouble like they once were - where their housing investment side cost them dear and they were really only saved by SF 2 and RE on the PS .

That's the net profits which i said

Operating profits are the real bottom line.

[ROJM]

Yes Thanks to the Huge debt mountain built up by the Dreamcast . The Arcade side did rather well with growth and NA@MI and NA@MI II being massive sellers the world over . Even in this generation the Arcade side as made plenty of money, while the consumer side has posted a number of losses.

Actually the biggest growth on Sega's side has been the digital division not the arcades. Again your point is moot because the arcades profits alone wasn't enough to stop the Sammy merger. Sega could have easily brought the CSK stake themselves but they just didn't have the money to achieve that. So despite what you keep claiming the arcades isn't enough to get Sega out of any trouble when it comes to takeovers.

You do make me laugh . The article you're quoting form makes it quite clear that Capcom made a profit of $31 million dollars

They also made it clear they made a huge loss. Again its only you the capcom diehard that refuses to accept the sad truth.

They've had a few decent years , but Konami and Capcom haven't posted a loss at all this generation unlike SEGA .

Wrong. Capcom HAS posted a loss this year and 2010. Don't make things up.

Capcom are a small outfit with some 1000 staff and yet make good money and shift loads of software, they are not really in trouble like they once were - where their housing investment side cost them dear and they were really only saved by SF 2 and RE on the PS .

Small? i thought you said they were big and had bigger amounts of software to shift and more bigger than Sega in your numerous discussions? Now you're retracting and saying they're small? BS. Capcom is still regarded as a big company and the losses they've incurred this gen is incredible to say the least. And you want Sega to copy them? HAHAHAHAHAR!

Operating profits are the real bottom line.

Not really its just part of it. Which again from a net profit of the original figure  from Sega was MORE than Capcom made, From the operating costs as you said will create half is still MORE than capcom's. Boy you are becoming a joke around here lately.

[Team Andromeda]

Again your point is moot because the arcades profits alone wasn't enough to stop the Sammy merger.

? Its not mute with out Dreamcast project costing SEGA some $800 million dollars in losses . SEGA would have been doing rather well with just its Arcade side. They've always brought the money in and always done very well , bar 1998 .

Sega could have easily brought the CSK stake themselves but they just didn't have the money to achieve that

If you don't have the money its not so easy .

They also made it clear they made a huge loss

Yes in their profits  , compared to the year before , but it wasn't an actual loss but a huge dip in their profits . Capcom also put aside some 70 million for dropping projects and getting teams ready for the next game, no different from the likes of SEGA or EA

Wrong. Capcom HAS posted a loss this year and 2010. Don't make things up

Its only you that makes stuff up

Capcom has announced its earnings results for the nine months to December 2010. During the period, Capcom earned 70.773b Yen ($863.4m) and saw profits of 6.836b Yen ($83.9m). In the nine months to December 2009, Capcom earned $613.3m in revenue and $21.2m in profit at current exchange rates. The profit figure is roughly four times greater in the current nine month period, while revenues grew a respectable 42%. Capcom retained its fiscal year forecast of 91b Yen in revenue ($1.12b) and 6.5b Yen in profit ($79.8m). The projected figures for April 2010 to March 2011 are up 36% for revenue and 200% for profit.

i thought you said they were big and had bigger amounts of software to shift and more bigger than Sega in your numerous discussions

Small in terms of staff compared to the likes of SEGA , but big in terms of multi million sellers and numbers of IP . SEGA Japan could do far better if Capcom can do the stuff it does with less that half the staff .

Not really its just part of it

Its the main part of it








 

[ROJM]

? Its not mute with out Dreamcast project costing SEGA some $800 million dollars in losses . SEGA would have been doing rather well with just its Arcade side. They've always brought the money in and always done very well , bar 1998 .

Moot not mute. The arcades didn't save Sega from its debt or being taken over. That is and will always will be the the bottom line. Accept it and move on. You can't rewrite history no matter how hard you try.

If you don't have the money its not so easy .

Then why the hell are you arguing with me for. If the arcade was enough for them then they would have had the money. guess what it wasn't. It was barely keeping them afloat. For gods sake man stay consistent.

Yes in their profits  , compared to the year before , but it wasn't an actual loss but a huge dip in their profits . Capcom also put aside some 70 million for dropping projects and getting teams ready for the next game, no different from the likes of SEGA or EA

And that's also cost them as well since that was one of the reasons Capcom's COO has stated for the loss of profits. Not dip but loss because NONE of the games made their projected sales and that is considered a loss. And i think Sega is more than ready to deal with the next gen don't you, with a multi format release of ISHIN on the way,(oh i thought sega didn't do that according to you) a new company that has several next gen games coming out in the next year...

Its only you that makes stuff up

Not according to Jonboy and Aki and George and....how many people have said the same thing about your debate and twisting things...let me count..

Small in terms of staff compared to the likes of SEGA , but big in terms of multi million sellers and numbers of IP . SEGA Japan could do far better if Capcom can do the stuff it does with less that half the staff .

But they're not doing better that's the point. Sega the company you keep criticizing IS doing better. Deal with it. You call yourself a fan of Sega but all you ever do is to wish them ill.

Its the main part of it

no its just a part of it. But then you can't even admit the truth when its staring you in the face when everybody that deals with these type of business things have said that capcom is in trouble, that fans have been disgruntled with Capcom for a few years and saying the same thing. its only TA that says different yet providing once again little to no proof to back his claims. And i'm making things up? No its you who is obviously living in some alternate universe with its alternate view on things and alternate opinions of what people have in reality actually said. And the worst thing is that you're not even consistent even in you're own posts.








 
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[Chaosmaster8753]

Finally read this: http://segahates.us/ Ouch.

[CrazyT]

You know. Let me add some more to my inelaborated first post. I personally don't like this SEGA year as a whole. But I can perfectly aknowledge that business wise they've made excellent decision. They cut of the average projects and focussed more on those who have a lot more potential to succeed.

I think it is much much better compared to other publishers like capcom or konami who are called out a lot about bad franchise managing or cheap ways of selling stuff.

At least with SEGA we see them genuinly trying to create and sell quality. Well for the most part at least if i'm saying anything wrong

[Team Andromeda]

The arcades didn't save Sega from its debt or being taken over.

Well when you run up some 800 million dollars in debts and your total corps net worth is 2 billion dollars , not much can really save you . With out the Arcade side SEGA wouldn't have been around in the late 1990's.

If the arcade was enough for them then they would have had the money

If SEGA didn't make the DC for the home market it wouldn't have been in debt and its Arcade Teams would have been very healty profits . That is all I'm saying .

And that's also cost them as well since that was one of the reasons Capcom's COO has stated for the loss of profits

Well yes paying off contracts to cancle games, wanting to double your staff is going to cost a hell of lot of money . Capcom isn't in debt though and I don't think it has ever posted a loss since the 1990's.

that fans have been disgruntled with Capcom for a few years and saying the same thing

what and SEGA doesn't get that too lol . Fans might moan , but the likes of RE 5, 6 are still huge sellers . Capcom just have more IP and more IP that sells the world over .

At least with SEGA we see them genuinly trying to create and sell quality. Well for the most part at least if i'm saying anything wrong

I think the likes of Konami have upped their game now too. Pro Evo is back on form and konami done good with Castlevannia . Capcom do produce very good games too I know RE 6 wasn't it's finest hour , but games like DMC, Dragon Dogma and MH 3 are top titles and Capcom with Dead Rising 3 and the simply stunning looking Deep Down Capcom look set to start the next gen very well ; that Panta Rhei engine is pie hot already



 

[ROJM]

Well when you run up some 800 million dollars in debts and your total corps net worth is 2 billion dollars , not much can really save you . With out the Arcade side SEGA wouldn't have been around in the late 1990's.

But were not talking about the nineties well the early nineties anyway. were talking about the period in the noughties when the arcades just wasn't enough to bail them out anymore. But keep using methods that bare no relation to the period on when Sega was actually was brought out.

If SEGA didn't make the DC for the home market it wouldn't have been in debt and its Arcade Teams would have been very healty profits . That is all I'm saying .

Nothing really to do with what were talking about now is it?

Well yes paying off contracts to cancle games, wanting to double your staff is going to cost a hell of lot of money . Capcom isn't in debt though and I don't think it has ever posted a loss since the 1990's.

Capcom's been in trouble this gen. its also not the first time that it was speculated as being ripe for a takeover by analysts from various japan news media. So obviously something is wrong.

what and SEGA doesn't get that too lol . Fans might moan , but the likes of RE 5, 6 are still huge sellers . Capcom just have more IP and more IP that sells the world over .

Yet 22 million profit and 152 million profit as a whole in two separate years, with the amount of money they pour into those games.Yes that's really doing well.NOT! And the number of Sega fans aren't much compared to capcom's core fans nowadays. Sega lost most of its fanbase when they left the console biz. All there is now are a few sega core fans on the console front and a few in the arcades, the majority are fans of various games that sega has made or acquired but many of them wouldn't buy a sega game outside of that franchise. Capcom still has their core audience and they're not used to being let down and obviously many of them have spoken with their cash hench the poor showings with capcom's profits.

I think the likes of Konami have upped their game now too. Pro Evo is back on form and konami done good with Castlevannia . Capcom do produce very good games too I know RE 6 wasn't it's finest hour , but games like DMC, Dragon Dogma and MH 3 are top titles and Capcom with Dead Rising 3 and the simply stunning looking Deep Down Capcom look set to start the next gen very well ; that Panta Rhei engine is pie hot already

I didn't mention konami so i don't know why you keep bringing them up. As for capcom? Good for them for a new engine, but its the money results that's the bottom line and capcom isn't doing well.



 

[max_cady]

I am super late for this topic...

But here's my two cents on the matter... I've accepted the fact that SEGA isn't the same company we used to know.

I've also accepted the fact that 2012 and 2013 were terrible years, for the most part, mainly because game studios are experiencing to some degree some sense of fatigue, since this console cycle has gone way longer than expected.

Early 2013 was basically 2012's rejects that had to shoved in there somehow, that doesn't apply just to SEGA, I think everyone else has done a terrible job.

But SEGA's been guilty this generation for being a very later adopter of trends. In my mind, SEGA is trapped in this weird place in which most developers are moving on to the Xbox One and PS4, while SEGA is still clinging to this notion that the Wii U is the cash cow they expect it to be.

They burned me twice with Bayonetta 2 and the new exclusive Sonic deals, to which I mantain to this day, is a near suicidal undertaking.

However, as harsh as I may be... I understand why there are doing this. They did say that Sonic, Aliens and the SI and Creative Assembly IPs are going to be their main focus. Those IPs sell, a lot, maybe not as much as some of the other IPs, enough to keep a healthy company.

At the expense of drastically reducing new game releases, mind you. But then again, it is better to release fewer games that SEGA knows for sure that they'll see returns, then it is to gamble on various releases only to see quite a lot of 'em just tank and burn money.

Though, it is indeed troublesome that Phantasy Star Online 2 got an english announcement a year ago only to vanish without a trace. Infrastructure problems, perhaps? Was it because being a free game meant that the cost of maintaining those servers running wasn't worth the hassle?

I've noticed that Godsrule: War of Mortals was shutdown last August, the game servers were up for little more than 6 months.

I guess SEGA prefers Spiral Knights as their main F2P go-to.