Capcom is allowing "Hostile Takeover" Buyout

[Mariano]

He thinks that Capcom is doing just right and every time someome said to him that SEGA is doing better he answer that is not SEGA, is Sammy the one that is right...without realizing that SEGA and Sammy are one company at leats in the financial aspect, in the stock for example there is no SEGA anymore or more Sammy, there is SEGA-Sammy (With Atlus, TMS, ETC)., and both parts are very important in many aspects.

[jonboy101]

He thinks that Capcom is doing just right and every time someome said to him that SEGA is doing better he answer that is not SEGA, is Sammy the one that is right...without realizing that SEGA and Sammy are one company at leats in the financial aspect, in the stock for example there is no SEGA anymore or more Sammy, there is SEGA-Sammy (With Atlus, TMS, ETC)., and both parts are very important in many aspects.

Team Andromeda has had a thing for comparing Sega to Capcom since at least 2006ish when I first ran into him on the old forums. It isn't just financial. If you look through his posts, you'll see him comparing things like Monster Hunter to Phantasy Star, or the tech in Lost Planet to Yakuza and Binary Domain. I can't count the number of times he's noted that Sega's tech is miles behind Capcom's (to hear him tell it, Sega hasn't updated their engines since Blood Will Tell or something), that Capcom is in a much healthier position than Sega is (which hasn't been true since 2002 - and certainly isn't true today, as you noted), that Capcom has so many more games being produced (which I guess is true when TA discounts all the games Sega makes that he doesn't consider games), and so on and so on.

I suppose I can recognize that Capcom is a talented company, but it's not as though they aren't out past their prime, either. The market is moving toward mobile and PC, and Sega is one of the only Japanese game companies to recognize this. They're in the pole position compared to Capcom, or Namco, for that matter.

[ROJM]

He thinks that Capcom is doing just right and every time someome said to him that SEGA is doing better he answer that is not SEGA, is Sammy the one that is right...without realizing that SEGA and Sammy are one company at leats in the financial aspect, in the stock for example there is no SEGA anymore or more Sammy, there is SEGA-Sammy (With Atlus, TMS, ETC)., and both parts are very important in many aspects.

And he keeps using Sega's consumer division as an example in his feeble attempt to make out Capcom is still making more money. Well the Sega consumer division includes Sega digital, TMS, Sega Toys, ATLUS and a few others. The reports state that all the time. So the consumer division is STILL making more money than Capcom's  consumer dept or division. It goes to show who some people have a lack of understanding or want to cling on to things that haven't been true for decades...

[ROJM]

Team Andromeda has had a thing for comparing Sega to Capcom since at least 2006ish when I first ran into him on the old forums. It isn't just financial. If you look through his posts, you'll see him comparing things like Monster Hunter to Phantasy Star, or the tech in Lost Planet to Yakuza and Binary Domain. I can't count the number of times he's noted that Sega's tech is miles behind Capcom's (to hear him tell it, Sega hasn't updated their engines since Blood Will Tell or something), that Capcom is in a much healthier position than Sega is (which hasn't been true since 2002 - and certainly isn't true today, as you noted), that Capcom has so many more games being produced (which I guess is true when TA discounts all the games Sega makes that he doesn't consider games), and so on and so on.

I suppose I can recognize that Capcom is a talented company, but it's not as though they aren't out past their prime, either. The market is moving toward mobile and PC, and Sega is one of the only Japanese game companies to recognize this. They're in the pole position compared to Capcom, or Namco, for that matter.

Because he wants Sega to act like Capcom and everyone else. Their tech hasn't been updated since BWT? What the hell is YAKUZA spilt milk? Sega goes with individual tech for certain games and hardly expands beyond that. We have seen several engines created for particular games like the Hedgehog engine for SONIC and the engine used for YAKUZA. Yet they managed to get strong returns for that. Sega has always operated like that. Using poor examples when most of the history shows Sega creating engine for use for particular games is quite telling.

He keeps criticizing that Sega should go MP like Capcom when Sega has done this time and again and it doesn't work. Its like a broken record. Especially when Sega's strength as a developer is creating a game for one system like they have done back on their own systems. Its no mistake that the exclusives ORTA and VALKRIA are still one of the best developed and looking games compared to the MF titles like BINARY DOMAIN.
And a game is a game regardless on what format its on. So he can discount it all he likes. For someone who keeps claiming he knows about the industry than calling what is a game and what isn't is the act of a spoilt teenager who can't get his own way. Its time to face reality...


 

[jonboy101]

Man you got riled up just thinking about it.

[ROJM]

Man you got riled up just thinking about it.

I get riled up when people like myself you and now a few others present him with the evidence to back things were saying up and he still keeps denying, twisting or spinning things that isn't clearly true. Yet he wants us to acknoledge half the stuf he is saying is true but doesn't give us the same courtesy. Andthen he wants me to believe he thinks he knows what's he 's on about? Nah...

[Team Andromeda]

The Saturn actually dropped its price first; in March 1996. PlayStation followed suit at E3 as a kick in the nuts; same E3 they revealed Crash Bandicoot

Actually SEGA America was forced to respond to the America Price cut . Not that it changes the simple fact that most consoles get a price cut less than a year in

PlayStation cut its price from something like 400 dollars in Japan to 300 at the American launch to undercut the Saturn, and then pulled the exact same trick on the 250 dollars N64

In Japan it was SEGA leading the price cutting game , it was the 1st to slash the price of the Saturn.

The DC to arcade set up was realized with Alien Front Online.

No it was dropped and the plan for Arcade and home users to play on-line together sadly cut .

I'm fairly sure they tested that at E3

It was tested in Japan , but dropped along with SEGA Japan plan's to have PC/Dreamcast sets up linked to their Arcades .

They had the longest generation, by far,  to sale all those games in. The 360 will be pushing 9 years old this fall.

And still selling , showing there's plenty of life in the consoles .

he market is moving toward mobile and PC, and Sega is one of the only Japanese game companies to recognize this. They're in the pole position compared to Capcom, or Namco, for that matter.

Don't make me laugh . Sammy has killed SEGA Japan once impressive PC division. SEGA Japan on the PC's are a  bit of a joke - they're Steam offering not the greatest , ports of the likes of Binary Domain not the greatest, . SEGA Japan games should all be on the PC, but not even Sonic is these days .  SEGA PC is a mess bar for SEGA Europe and the sheer brilliance of PSO II  . Namco, Capcom all support the PC just as much as SEGA Japan if not more so .


And yes going forward Capcom are better than SEGA JAPAN . SOJ have next to no million selling IP on the world stage , light years behind the likes of Capcom on tech and true multi platform . What we got from SOJ other than another lame quick and easy sequel to Yakuza and another Sonic (which should be good btw) . All Sammy is good at is milking past SEGA IP made in their glory days , in 20 years time Sammy will have hardly any SEGA fan fav IP left to milk , because other than Yakuza hardly any SEGA Japan game gets people talking on this board , never mind in the hearts of minds of most gamers

If you call that profits than you are having a laugh.

It's a profit and oh my if SEGA it's self didn't see a sharp reduction in profits






 

[Mariano]

This is going to continue for forever XD

[jonboy101]

It's sort of a small point, but here's my link for the Alien Front Online deal.

"Four Dreamcasts were set up right next to four Alien Front Online arcade machines, and the eight stations were all linked together. Also, each station had a small headset, which allowed you to hear the action, as well as talk to other players in real-time."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/alien-front-online-e3-2000-impressions/1100-2571640/

GameSpot is a fairly reputable magazine. It was, as I said, tested at e3. It was dropped later, sure - I wasn't disputing that. All I was saying was Sega made it beyond the drawing board with it.

On the issue of price cutting:

Sega cut the price of the Saturn down to 250 dollars in March, 1996.

"The price for the "core" Sega Saturn Unit has dropped to $249.99. Some stores are already selling it at this price but the price drop won't start nationwide until monday. The price of the Saturn w/Virtua Fighter will be $299.99. This is not the "New" Cheaper Saturn, that will be released later at under $200, but a price drop of the original Saturn.
information from Next Generation Online and IGonline"

http://www.sega-saturn.com/saturn/other/march-n.htm

Sony responded in May, at e3, dropping the price to 200 dollars, to undercut the Saturn and the newly unveiled N64 (and it's 250 dollar asking price). Again, it was so clever because Sony effectively did to Nintendo at e3 1996 the same thing they did to Sega at e3 1995.

http://www.ign.com/articles/1998/08/28/history-of-the-playstation

I have no memory of who started slashing prices first in Japan, so I'll cede that to you. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Sega.

I'm not disputing there is still life left in the last generation; what I'm saying is that there's a big difference between a console being outsold by a 5 year old PlayStation 2 (incidentally, the most successful console ever) and a 9 year old XBOX 360 (which, to date, hasn't even sold half of the PS2s final numbers).

As for the real meat of your argument; it's ultimately nonsense. You can't just ignore Creative Assembly, Sports Interactive and Relic. They're part of Sega, as well, and, in the case of the first two, have been for almost a decade now. You're acting as if this is 2000 and Sega and Sega Japan are synonymous. That just isn't the case. Your view on Sega is archaic. Namco and Capcom might support the PC as much as Sega Japan; but not as well as Sega, as a whole, does. Nowhere near. Likewise with mobile.

Likewise, I'm not sure what you're talking about with sales. Sega Japan =/= Sega. Rome Total War was the fastest selling game in the series; it cracked a million back around Jan or Feb. The Football Manager games are outdoing themselves annually. Company of Heroes is a million selling franchise. Sonic is Sonic. So long as Sega has the Alien license, they'll have million sellers there, as well. There is also, I suppose, Yakuza, though that is slowing down. The crossover games have all broken a million. Phantasy Star seems like it's hitting the threshold of being a consistent hit in Japan. 

Tell me, how many consistent million sellers did Sega have before the merger? I can think of about three since the MegaDrive days; Sonic, Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally. Most Sega Japan games, like Virtua Fighter, have no market in the west, so as the Japanese console market continues to implode, it would stand to reason that we'll see fewer and fewer of that sort of game. Sega's just adopting to market conditions.

[ROJM]

Actually it was Sonic and EC that were million plus sellers on MD

As for his Capcom stance..yet again when you look at the money they brought in and Capcom..doesn't really compare...

Sega
 net income ¥88.4 billion, profit ¥5.5 billion.

Capcom
net income ¥723 million profit ¥1.27 million

[Team Andromeda]

"Four Dreamcasts were set up right next to four Alien Front Online arcade machines, and the eight stations were all linked together. Also, each station had a small headset, which allowed you to hear the action, as well as talk to other players in real-time."

Yes features that was cut out from the 'retail' version of the game . At one stage SEGA had huge plans to link up and allow DC and Arcade users to battle each other over the network and SOJ also spent a bomb on its Entertainment STAGE net@ center/suits and it sadly never worked out .

Sega cut the price of the Saturn down to 250 dollars in March, 1996

I'm pretty sure that again a reaction to SONY cutting its price in the USA and also introduced the value pack (with was just a PS with a free memory card . SOJ lead the price cutting way and the only time I seem to remember SONY being off guard was with SEGA Europe Saturn Easter  Bundle and price cut or 'its not yoke' as SOE liked to class it . But again that doesn't change the fact that price cuts have happen early in to most consoles (even sale monsters like PS2)

what I'm saying is that there's a big difference between a console being outsold by a 5 year old PlayStation 2 (incidentally, the most successful console ever) and a 9 year old XBOX 360 (which, to date, hasn't even sold half of the PS2s final numbers).

We can all use numbers how we see fit . The fact are consoles sales for last generation of the best they've ever been and they're still selling . So I don't see how anyone can make out that consoles have had it, more so when the PS4 and XBox one are selling at better rates that their predecessors.

Likewise, I'm not sure what you're talking about with sales. Sega Japan =/= Sega. Rome Total War was the fastest selling game in the series; it cracked a million back around Jan or Feb. The Football Manager games are outdoing themselves annually.

I'm not dissing SEGA Europe they've done rather well . But selling a million copies is hardly a big deal these days - That's the bare minimum a game needs to sell . The real trouble is SEGA Japan consumer divisions their putout is not what it was or what its could or needs to be . They've have no next gen tech to show off, they lack IP that either works on the world stage or can sell a more than a million and going forward that's an issue .


Where's SEGA Japan Fan IP that people love and talk about like they used to for classics like Crazy Taxi, Sonic, JSR, Saga, Rez, Skies and so on . SEGA Japan is living on and off it's former past glory's too much .


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I suppose, Yakuza, though that is slowing down.

[/size]Its an IP that's doesn't seem to know what direction to take or where to go and its Tech is rather lame and its sales are not growing , but decreasing. Not a great sign

Tell me, how many consistent million sellers did Sega have before the merger?

No many hence why SEGA Japan was in all sorts of money troubles and one could put it down to SEGA's lack of money to push the PR and it's IP .

have no market in the west, so as the Japanese console market continues to implode, it would stand to reason that we'll see fewer and fewer of that sort of game.

Which is why SEGA Japan needs games that are made for the west  and multi platform . Its the only way you're going to get million selling IP on the consoles
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Phantasy Star seems like it's hitting the threshold of being a consistent hit in Japan

Has it ever sold a million yet ? This is where all of SEGA needs a good kicking . SEGA West for bringing the game out over here (West)  already where most of PC game and Hardware sales are and then SOJ for not bringing the game to the next Gen consoles and having a big march on its rivals with a stunning On-line RPG that's lovely and easy to play on the PS4 and XBox One


On those systems alone it could be a million seller easy imo .

Actually it was Sonic and EC that were million plus sellers on MD

I really doubt EC sold a million at all . It might have sold ok, but it never really  topped the charts in the USA or UK and was slammed in sales by Mortal Kombat on the MD




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[ROJM]

I really doubt EC sold a million at all . It might have sold ok, but it never
really  topped the charts in the USA or UK and was slammed in sales by Mortal
Kombat on the MD

I was suprised it sold that much as well but apparently it did. Which explains why they gave that game several spin offs when they did because it was SOA's golden boy their first homegrown game that sold over a million copies. Which also explains why SOJ canned the third title. If the game didn't sell big than they wouldn't have bothered stopping a game's production if they didn't think it would steal VF's limelight. But obviously the sucess of the initial title was the reason why they thought that it could.

Here are the sales for MD...

Sonic the Hedgehog   14.9 million

 
Sonic the Hedgehog 2  6 million

 
Disney's Aladdin 4 million

 
Eternal Champions 2 million

 
NBA Jam  1.93 million 

 
Mortal Kombat II 1.78 million 

 

Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition 1.65 million

 

Altered Beast  1.4 million 

 

Sonic & Knuckles 1.24 million 

 

Mortal Kombat 3 1.02 million 

 

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 1.02 million

I'm not dissing SEGA Europe they've done rather well . But selling a million
copies is hardly a big deal these days - That's the bare minimum a game needs to
sell . The real trouble is SEGA Japan consumer divisions their putout is not
what it was or what its could or needs to be . They've have no next gen tech to
show off, they lack IP that either works on the world stage or can sell a more
than a million and going forward that's an issue .

Poppycock...

Where's SEGA Japan Fan IP that people love and talk about like they used to
for classics like Crazy Taxi, Sonic, JSR, Saga, Rez, Skies and so on . SEGA
Japan is living on and off it's former past glory's too much .

The games nobody brought with the exception of CRAZY TAXI or even Skies...gimme a break...again if you want to be taken seriously around here stop trying to entice novie sega gamers with using the obvious fan favourites. We all know that those games didn't sell as well so Sega isn't going to return to them anytime soon.

Its an IP
that's doesn't seem to know what direction to take or where to go and its Tech
is rather lame and its sales are not growing , but decreasing. Not a great sign

The only YAKUZA games that have small sales is the spin offs not the main games in the series. The spin offs are not a reflection that the series is in any trouble. Everytime the main game is released it gets a higher percentage.
 

[Team Andromeda]

I was suprised it sold that much as well but apparently it did. Which explains why they gave that game several spin offs when they did because it was SOA's golden boy their first homegrown game that sold over a million copies

? Where did you get that figure of 2 million from and just because a game gets a sequel or spins off doesn't mean it sold well , more so in the MD games when games selling 500,000 units could make great profits .

Poppycock

Ok what great engines and games have we got to look forward from SEGA Japan this year and next on the home consoles ?

The games nobody brought with the exception of CRAZY TAXI or even Skies...gimme a break

Sigh... There's a world of difference from buying a full price game on a system that most people thought had little chance , to buying a £3 digital download of the said game . Plenty of people would love to see Skies brought to XBLA or PSN . I doubt they'll be such calls in 10 years time for SEGA Japan to bring its current line up to XBLA or PSN.

The only YAKUZA games that have small sales is the spin offs not the main games in the series.

The main games series haven't set the sales alight and I don't think parts 4 or V sold as well as part III. Its a IP that is fast running out of ideas and seeing declines in sales with each new game .

[ROJM]

? Where did you get that figure of 2 million from and just because a game gets a
sequel or spins off doesn't mean it sold well , more so in the MD games when
games selling 500,000 units could make great profits .

It sold 2 million. I showed you the figures. And no. Only games that sold that big got spin offs on the megadrive...the other being obviously Sonic. Sega of America definatly didn't do that many either but did when their first homegrown game got that figure. After that there was bigger plans for the series including spin offs a tv deal and many more merchandise..only the spin offs and a revised version of the MD sequel that became Dark Side came out for CD instead. A game selling 5 000 isn't going to worry SOJ but a game that sold over a million is going to worry them when they want their fighter to be the premier dominant fighter on their golden boy system The Saturn. If that wasn't the case they would not have interfered with EC3's development.

Ok what great engines and games have we got to look forward from SEGA Japan this
year and next on the home consoles ?

Who cares. Were not capcom so stop trying to act like they are.

Sigh... There's a world of difference from buying a full price game on a system
that most people thought had little chance , to buying a £3 digital download of
the said game . Plenty of people would love to see Skies brought to XBLA or PSN
. I doubt they'll be such calls in 10 years time for SEGA Japan to bring its
current line up to XBLA or PSN.

Sign, all that matters is the bottom line. More people play F2P games than buy a package game nowadays. Your sacred Capcom hasn't been doing at all well with the old system of games. So keep acting like there's nothing wrong with the current console industry...

The main games series haven't set the sales alight and I don't think parts 4
or V sold as well as part III. Its a IP that is fast running out of ideas and
seeing declines in sales with each new game .

No its a game series that always sold strongly with its main titles and not with its side games. Everything else is conjecture. And really you are saying that about YAKUZA when you being a fan of Capcom who milks the same frigging game over two generations? Don't make me laugh.

[Team Andromeda]

It sold 2 million. I showed you the figures

No all you seem to have done is copy and paste from Wikipedia and add in EC your self . Link would be nice and one that's better than Wikipedia . Never remember EC doing well in the charts at all, but maybe it did .

A game selling 5 000 isn't going to worry SOJ but a game that sold over a million is going to worry them when they want their fighter to be the premier dominant fighter on their golden boy system The Saturn.

You need to factor in a few things . Spins off don't mean a game sell loads , Viewtiful Joe was hardly a sales monster , but it it's self had a sequel and 2 spins off . Also many saw (not just SOJ) Virtual Fighter II as the pinnacle of Saturn programming and a 3D fighter  , so many could see why SOJ would want to see that game pushed more  seeing as VF II was the best 3D fighter and the time and run 704X480 @ 60 fps which was incredible for a home system .

Who cares. Were not capcom so stop trying to act like they are.

Leave Capcom out of this and just answer the question . What have we got to look forward for SEGA Japan for this and next year for the consoles ?

Your sacred Capcom hasn't been doing at all well with the old system of games

Actually Capcom digital sales are what helped it post a profit for the 1st half of this year . Now many I would suspect would or have  been  ready to take a punt on the likes of Space Channel 5 Pt 2, REZ, JSR, Skies of Arcadia , Guardian Heroes  and so on .  How many of SEGA Japan current line up would people be asking for to come to XBLA and PSN - Other than PSO V II and maybe Project Diva or a english translation of Yakuza 5 I can't think of many .

No its a game series that always sold strongly with its main titles and not with its side games.

I don't think Yakuza 5 sold as well as Part III and it not even close to a millon seller . Its an IP that it's going forward , but stuck in runt.