Why does SOJ show Sonic such contempt?

[Team Andromeda]

Yet were talking about Saturn development only.

Saturn software development would have started in 1994 , But the main Sonic Team were in America and putting the finished coding touches to S&K and so would have been in no position to get any sort of Sonic game ready for the Saturn launch in Japan ,or the Saturn launch in the USA.

I can when they never did it before

The old SEGA always liked to try new concepts and IP . After over 5 main Sonic games in little over 4 years and with brand new Hardware one can see why any Team would like to try something new.

They never did because if they really wanted the game to happen none of the bs would have happened

If you like want to make out you're somehow ashamed or want to kill a IP - Then the last thing you do is to not only use Sonic image for the whole SEGA brand, you don't also allow Sonic Island, Sonic Jam, Sonic R and Sonic the Fighters to be made for starters.

That's its launch year/first year which i said from the star

The First year of the console is still its launch year because its the year the system establishes itself in the market

No spinning at all , just say that even Nintendo doesn't always get Mario ready for its systems launches too.

The difference is that people would have brought the system if they knew EC and other genesis games were coming for Saturn.

Yet EC champions made no difference to the Mega CD and its not like mega established fighters like Street Fighter and MK made any real impact to either the PS or the Saturn sales and I highly, highly doubt  a 3D version of EC could have topped anything Tekken or VF 2 could do for starters. Looking back in the sales charts inthe likes of MEGA and the like its not like EC was a sales monster (after a decent start it dropped quickly from the charts) . A far bigger screw up was SEGA America not getting a decent NFL game and making another Joe Montana game ready to go early in
 


   

[ROJM]

Saturn software development would have started in 1994 , But the main Sonic Team were in America and putting the finished coding touches to S&K and so would have been in no position to get any sort of Sonic game ready for the Saturn launch in Japan ,or the Saturn launch in the USA.The old SEGA always liked to try new concepts and IP .

And the old SEGA always made sure their mascot or brand franchises made it to the next console within launch or first year. Keep giving excuses for SOJ management...Sonic Team could have easily rolled out a game for 95 but they didn't. Somehow KNUCKLES CHAOTIX was more important.

After over 5 main Sonic games in little over 4 years and with brand new Hardware one can see why any Team would like to try something new.If you like want to make out you're somehow ashamed or want to kill a IP - Then the last thing you do is to not only use Sonic image for the whole SEGA brand, you don't also allow Sonic Island, Sonic Jam, Sonic R and Sonic the Fighters to be made for starters.No spinning at all , just say that even Nintendo doesn't always get Mario ready for its systems launches too.Yet EC champions made no difference to the Mega CD and its not like mega established fighters like Street Fighter and MK made any real impact to either the PS or the Saturn sales and I highly, highly doubt  a 3D version of EC could have topped anything Tekken or VF 2 could do for starters. Looking back in the sales charts inthe likes of MEGA and the like its not like EC was a sales monster (after a decent start it dropped quickly from the charts) . A far bigger screw up was SEGA America not getting a decent NFL game and making another Joe Montana game ready to go early in

I said it sold 2 million units. EC did that. If you had any clue about sales then you'd know exactly how it managed to get that number.Keep using VF2 as an excuse..A GAME THAT DIDN'T DRAW ANY EUROPEAN OR AMERICAN GAMERS OUTSIDE OF SEGA FANS onto Saturn. Always missing the point. No one cared that the saturn had the better fighters. Most people didn't care about the saturn at all. There was nothing on the saturn that they could familise themselves with. But keep missing the point.

Second don't give me the team crap. SOJ are the bosses and they can say what they desire or want. They sure had no problem in denying a 2 million plus Genesis series like EC to get a Saturn release. And you are trying to convince everyone that SOJ was so great and understandable bosses that they let Sonic Team make a new game because they were tired of Sonic. RUBBISH. SOJ didn't want SONIC on their system. ST excuse to make a new game was convenient for them at that time. No one in their right mind apart from SOJ passes on a mascot character that can draw you many consumers to your system..after years of being ignored in two major markets that flock to you're 16 bit system and made you profitable at the same time..because the team wanted to make a new game. Arrogance was a word you used before..the arrogance of SOJ management disabling SOA so they could prove that they could make a system more popular worldwide than their subsidiary...by rejecting everything that was popular on that 16 bit system..is astounding and near criminal.Incompetence and hatred was the problem not any benevolence for sonic team's being tired.
 


   

[Team Andromeda]

I said it sold 2 million units. EC did that

Yeah... You said . You've never provided a link or a sales chart from the era to back up your claims . 

Keep using VF2 as an excuse..A GAME THAT DIDN'T DRAW ANY EUROPEAN OR AMERICAN GAMERS OUTSIDE OF SEGA FANS onto Saturn

And if one of the best 3D fighters ever made and one of the best looking and most impressive bits of coding on the Saturn couldn't get  more fighting fans on the Saturn, you really think EC would have made any difference ?

And you are trying to convince everyone that SOJ was so great and understandable bosses that they let Sonic Team make a new game because they were tired of Sonic.

Well for starters it's what the  NiGHTS team said and for another... lots of Teams will want to make new IP and do different things . God Of War a huge IP for SONY and sometimes even the face of SONY PS but after 4 main games and 2 spins off's I think the Team are ready to move on to something new, don't you ?. Naughty Dog could have made countless sequels to Crash or Jak but again they've moved on new IP and I bet you, after the 4th Drakes will be the last Drakes game they'll ever  make , even BUNGiE got bored of HALO and wanted to try new IP and make something a bit different. All that's looking over that there was a Sonic game in production for the Saturn, no doubt spired on with Mario 64 great reception - Which I have no doubt, made SOJ saw it screwed up and how it needed to get a main Sonic game in production.

[ROJM]

Yeah... You said . You've never provided a link or a sales chart from the era to back up your claims .

Er yes i have. You just ignored them Lie you keep doing when other people show evidence to you.But i won't bother anymore. Been there done that..

   And if one of the best 3D fighters ever made and one of the best looking and most impressive bits of coding on the Saturn couldn't get  more fighting fans on the Saturn, you really think EC would have made any difference ? Well for starters

Yes for starters. I'm talking about Genesis games in general you silly bint. Not just EC. if EC and other genesis games had proper Saturn games from ECCO to SOR to a proper SONIC title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in. And that way as a first party Sega could easily get those gamers to go and buy the 3D titles.

it's what the  NiGHTS team said and for another... lots of Teams will want to make new IP and do different things .

So frigging WHAT? They are not the management. The Management runs the company and are supposed to know whats good for business. You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character's games because you feel sorry for the team doing too many titles of that character...that is not how you run a business..especially when the demand for that character was still hot. The Management tells the developers what to do. They decide whether a game proposal will get turned into an actual game or not. The team doesn'tr run the company the company does. Any bloody excuse to give sympathy for SOJ while bashing Kalinske and SOA who made Sega popular worldwide on things that SOJ was to blame..makes me sick. You make me sick with you're bloody lies and spin.

 All that's looking over that there was a Sonic game in production for the Saturn, no doubt spired on with Mario 64 great reception - Which I have no doubt, made SOJ saw it screwed up and how it needed to get a main Sonic game in production.

No TA there NEVER was a SONIC game in productionj. That was proved in another quote that i provided of remarks fromNaka himself.
Actually it was Crash Bandicoot which woke them up..not just Mario World 64. Since Bandicoot was basically ripping off Sonic in plenty of ways..and they realized their mistake too late.

[Team Andromeda]

Er yes i have

You have never produced a link or scan that shows EC sold over 2 million . I bet the real sales of the game are closer to a million .

title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in.

Ecco now ? The game sold rubbish on the DC and didn't help the DC at all , so I fail to see what good it would have done the Saturn, more so as it would have been a real hard game to make on the Saturn, due to it's issues with 3D transparent effects.  SEGA Japan and America should have made sure they had a Joe Montana and a main Sonic game early in for the Saturn- they were by far bigger screw ups and games that were proven sellers.

So frigging WHAT? They are not the management

It's important to let your team have freedom and be able to do some new stuff . And tbh the management don't play games but if the Sonic Team came to them and said we got a great new idea for a game, we think it could be the next Sonic . One could understand why it was greenlighted  straight away . The mistake made was no also making sure another Sonic game was also in production in Japan every early in .

You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character'

Half the world ? . SEGA didn't have half the gaming market let alone the world. Looking over that the Sonic III and S&K sold nothing like as well as Sonic 1 and II - So that would have had a bearing in SEGA plans and the feeling that the Team needed something new . Crash Bandicoot sold in ridiculous numbers on the PS , yet Naughty Dog wanted to try new things . God of war 1,II III are multi million sellers yet the team now seem to what to try something new and there's no sign of any new GOW coming to the PS4

No TA there NEVER was a SONIC game in productionj

They was, sadly it only came into life at 1996 and be the little more than a year latter it became clear to everyone the Saturn wasn't going to beat the PS and it be better to make it for the new system .


 


 

[ROJM]

You have never produced a link or scan that shows EC sold over 2 million . I bet the real sales of the game are closer to a million .title..the Saturn would have been in a more healthier position than it was in.

2Million end of. And i unlike you have provided links..only for you to pretend they never exist. Just like you have done with other posters that have the misfortune to debate with you.

Ecco now ? The game sold rubbish on the DC and didn't help the DC at all , so I fail to see what good it would have done the Saturn, more so as it would have been a real hard game to make on the Saturn, due to it's issues with 3D transparent effects.  SEGA Japan and America should have made sure they had a Joe Montana and a main Sonic game early in for the Saturn- they were by far bigger screw ups and games that were proven sellers.

The DC didn't EXIST after Genesis. Ecco around the time of the genesis and Saturn was one of Sega's well known titles. No doubt it would have been one of the attractions for consumers to move to Saturn if it had a sequel on that system. Using the DC sales when the DCA overall sold crap is hardly evidence to back you up...

The mistake made was no also making sure another Sonic game was also in production in Japan every early in .

And so you admit it was a mistake..i call it deliberate.

Half the world ? . SEGA didn't have half the gaming market let alone the world.

Wrong again as usual. But you'll soon know why later on this week...

They was, sadly it only came into life at 1996 and be the little more than a year latter it became clear to everyone the Saturn wasn't going to beat the PS and it be better to make it for the new system .

Too late to do anything about anything....


 


 

[Team Andromeda]

2Million end of

Prove it and a link or a scan will do .

Ecco around the time of the genesis and Saturn was one of Sega's well known titles

Ecco wasn't that big of a hit on the Mega Drive and just sold in very decent numbers . Now if Ecco (despite being quite brilliant on the DC) couldn't help the DC, I fail to see how it would have had much of an impact on the Saturn and give the issues with Saturn 3D and transparent effects one would also have to question what so of Ecco game SEGA could do .

And so you admit it was a mistake

Always said it was a mistake not getting Sonic ready in early in. I would have made sure to Sonic CD along with Sonic the Arcade game ready to go at the time . Also think it was a mistake not making SOR IV for the Saturn and that there was no Joe Montana game ready early in for the Saturn (huge mistake by SOA)

Wrong again as usual

So there's a SEGA console that sold over 2 billion units ?. Keep it up lol and it was Nintendo who always had the biggest overall market share than SEGA and every Nintendo home console sold better than SEGA's fact . So sorry SEGA never had half the market, never mind half the home console market to it's self .

Too late to do anything about anything

After FF 7 demo shipping in Japan and PS sales going into orbit and smashing the Saturn (even in Japan) pretty much too late and no doubt when all work on Saturn versions of Shenmue, Sonic Adv was dropped and moved up to DC

[ROJM]

Prove it and a link or a scan will do .

I have done. Again keep spinning..i'm not going to post anything on someone who is ignorant..especially fragile material like that.

Ecco wasn't that big of a hit on the Mega Drive and just sold in very decent numbers . Now if Ecco (despite being quite brilliant on the DC) couldn't help the DC, I fail to see how it would have had much of an impact on the Saturn and give the issues with Saturn 3D and transparent effects one would also have to question what so of Ecco game SEGA could do .

Again contrasting an era where there were gamers who knew ECCO compared to an era where no one knew anything about games..you know the era that you came into gaming..the PSX/SONY nightmare. Doesn't prove you're ridiculous point. But not surprised..you're generation of gamers were never known for their intelligence...

Always said it was a mistake not getting Sonic ready in early in.

No you never.

I would have made sure to Sonic CD along with Sonic the Arcade game ready to go at the time . Also think it was a mistake not making SOR IV for the Saturn and that there was no Joe Montana game ready early in for the Saturn (huge mistake by SOA)

Oh goody another port! And funny how you backtrack on MONTANA when i said the same thing ages back you gave an epic post why it couldn't have happened because he sued SOA. Geez...hypocrisy...

So there's a SEGA console that sold over 2 billion units ?. Keep it up lol and it was Nintendo who always had the biggest overall market share than SEGA and every Nintendo home console sold better than SEGA's fact . So sorry SEGA never had half the market, never mind half the home console market to it's self .

2 billion? i never said such a thing...again the lying liar comes out with more bull..keep it up...mate..its only going to look worse for you at the end of the week...When your lying and lack of knowledge will show you up once again...

After FF 7 demo shipping in Japan and PS sales going into orbit and smashing the Saturn (even in Japan) pretty much too late and no doubt when all work on Saturn versions of Shenmue, Sonic Adv was dropped and moved up to DC

SONIC ADVENTURE did not and i repeat DID NOT EXIST for Saturn. Yuji Naka said so in the same magazine that you tried to prove me wrong in. Yet you could not since it was the more relevant interview. The arrogance of someone who tries to say he knows more than an actual developer who WORKED on the game is astounding.

[jonboy101]

On the issue of Eternal Champions, I haven't any idea how many it sold total, or whether these are accurate, but here are some old charts from NeoGaf.


Bare in mind, EC came out in August of 93, when Sega was at its height (ever).



Jan 1994: Etetnal Champions was the No2 game of the month, selling about 65k.
Feb 1994: EC at no4, with 40
March: EC at no11 with 30k
April: EC at no18 with about 14k
May: EC at no24 w/ 9k
June: EC at 19 w/ 12.5k
July: EC at 28 w/ 10k


http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454

[Team Andromeda]

I have done.

No All you done is this quote your self and put in the figure of 2 million . You have never produced a link or scan that shows who much the game sold at retail .

Again contrasting an era where there were gamers who knew ECCO compared to an era where no one knew anything about games..you know the era that you came into gaming.

I got into gaming in 1985 with the ZX Spectrum 128+ and Ecco was only a modest hit on the Mega Drive and I gather didn't do well in the USA really . So I doubt it would have had much impact on the Saturn and they you have all the issues if the Saturn trouble with 3D transparent effects.

No you never

Always have and like I always said I would have just got Sonic CD on the Saturn with Full screen FMV no slowdown and a improved bonus stage and to me that would have been enough for the USA/Pal launch.

2 billion? i never said such a thing...again the lying liar

Do you even know what you type ?


You said ...

You don't simply ignore a character that half the world wanted to play that character

Half the world in 1994/5 would have be around 2 billion people . So no I don't lie ,like you and looking over that SEGA never had half of the worlds gaming market either , Nintendo always had better worldwide market share that SEGA through out SEGA entire history as a console hardware manufacturer.

SONIC ADVENTURE did not and i repeat DID NOT EXIST for Saturn

It did has confirmed by Games Director !!!.














 
   

[ROJM]

On the issue of Eternal Champions, I haven't any idea how many it sold total, or whether these are accurate, but here are some old charts from NeoGaf.


Bare in mind, EC came out in August of 93, when Sega was at its height (ever).



Jan 1994: Etetnal Champions was the No2 game of the month, selling about 65k.
Feb 1994: EC at no4, with 40
March: EC at no11 with 30k
April: EC at no18 with about 14k
May: EC at no24 w/ 9k
June: EC at 19 w/ 12.5k
July: EC at 28 w/ 10k


http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=116454

What people need to remember is that EC was a game from Sega. Most people who brought the MD were more likely to try out or buy Sega games first before any other game from a third party. Sega at that time had a great reputation. Fighting games was the big thing. So when Sega released EC and with all the hype...people lapped it up. Just like Nintendo fans lapping up Killer Instinct. No difference to Sega fans lapping up a title from Sega in a genre everyone was going gaga for. Depending on who was making it.
Also as i said EC sales are down to various factors.

Initial sales (title sold at full price)
Rebate sales (title sold at special rebate price via promotional deal)
Activator pack in sales(sales for systems or preperials count towards game sales depending on the game included with system)
Genesis pack in sales(special exclusive shop deal pack in)

That's effectivly how the game managed to get the 2 million i spoke of.Like i said anyone who knows about these type of things would know that or know how the industy and specifically Sega count sales.

On top of that when SOA licensed Tiger Electronics Sega IP for their LCD Sega Arcade...with VIRTUA FIGHTER, BUG ETERNAL CHAMPIONS and a few others...EC SEGA POCKET ARCADE sold 18 million units.
So you can see why SOA wanted to go full steam ahead with this property. And why SOJ didn't since the VF version of the title didn't sell as much. That is why SOJ feared something similar may happen with EC 3 for Saturn and made sure it and other genesis titles didn't happen.

[jonboy101]

Oh I agree EC was a hit if its still top 30 almost a year after release, don't get me wrong. And those numbers were EC at near full price to boot. I was just providing numbers for TA.

[ROJM]

No All I do is ignore quotes and links that you and everyone else have put up on this forum so i can continue to live in my little fantasy world. I have never produced a link or scan that shows who much the game sold at retail or actually backs up what i say. I got into gaming in 1998 when S*NY INVENTED GAMING and Ecco was only a modest hit on the Mega Drive and I gather didn't do well in the USA really . bUT I DONT KNOW BECAUSE I WASN'T PLAYING GAMES BACK THEN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EXIST BECAUSE everyone knows S*ny invented gaming.

You said ...Half the world in 1994/5 would have be around 2 billion people . So
no I don't lie ,like you and looking over that SEGA never had half of the worlds
gaming market either , Nintendo always had better worldwide market share that
SEGA through out SEGA entire history as a console hardware manufacturer.

That isn't 2 billion sales..which i never said. Again the twist and spinner makes his mark...But you're own words will condemn you...

It did has confirmed by Games Director !!!.

Confimed at the time by Naka that it wasn't. NAKA the leader of ST at the time from a magazine from the era of the time. And there's no one in Sega or any human being called GAMES DIRECTOR!! lol...

[jonboy101]

TA, actually, I imagine the market dominance in Europe and America in 1992-1993 put them ahead of Nintendo worldwide, even accounting for having like ten percent of Japan

[ROJM]

Oh I agree EC was a hit if its still top 30 almost a year after release, don't get me wrong. And those numbers were EC at near full price to boot. I was just providing numbers for TA.

I know i was explaing the situation and why SOA went full tilt with EC and continued to do so.

TA, actually, I imagine the market dominance in Europe and America in
1992-1993 put them ahead of Nintendo worldwide, even accounting for having like
ten percent of Japan

Nintendo won if you can call it winning because of Japan..Sega had the rest of the market including America. Like i said today or Friday i will post what i mean..