Author Topic: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate  (Read 14928 times)

Offline Happy Cat

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2015, 08:41:13 pm »
Alabama isn't going down without a fight! They've rebanned Gay Marriage and are requesting a retrial.

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Although the Supreme Court last week ruled gay marriage bans unconstitutional, the Alabama Supreme Court on Monday effectively ordered probate judges not to issue same-sex marriage licenses for 25 days. The state's Supreme Court picked this amount of time because, technically, there is a 25-day period to file a petition to rehear the U.S. Supreme Court case.

http://www.newsweek.com/avoid-supreme-court-gay-marriage-decision-alabama-temporarily-bans-gay-348366

Offline Moody

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2015, 08:55:37 pm »
Expect the entire Southern US to pitch fits about this for a while. I doubt they'll actually do anything, they're just butthurt, like when republicans shut down the government because the health care act passed.

Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2015, 06:54:14 am »
I'm not getting into a debate about homosexuality and it's moral issues. Nor does it matter if I support it, am against it or just don't care.

What really troubles me about this whole ordeal is that, as of recently, if I wear something with a rainbow pattern people assume I'm gay/support the LGBT causes.
This pisses me off big time, because I enjoy rainbow patterns.

Take this shirt for example:


It's a fucking nice shirt. But guess what, if you wear it, you're gay. It's even called a "pride" shirt.

I have nothing against homosexuals. I simply dislike flamboyant people, gay or straight. And this whole "pride" thing is very much flamboyant. I don't want to be a part of this, so now I can't wear sweet ass shirts.

This is really bothering.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2015, 07:00:22 am »
having an outdated opinion isn't breaking the rules...

people aren't born 'bigots,' it's something they are taught.

This is extremelly rude.

bigot
noun:
    a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

I'm not for nor against you, but being supportive of gays doesn't make you less of a bigot.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2015, 07:22:54 am »
This is extremelly rude.

bigot
noun:
    a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

I'm not for nor against you, but being supportive of gays doesn't make you less of a bigot.

I'm not talking about you, I was talking about Spock.

I'm not gay and I'm no more pro-homosexuality than I am pro-freckles or pro-snoring. The differences is people with freckle and people who snore don't get treated like second class citizens, but if they did I would have a problem with it! Because that is exactly what it's like when a government denies rights to some of its citizens because of such a mundane genetic trait as being gay...

As many as 1 in 10 people are gay, lesbian or bisexual... But you're not bombarded with flamboyant fairies, most of them you wont even realise they're gay unless they told you and I don't think wearing that shirt would make anyone automatically assume you're gay or even support it... Wear whatever you want, and if by chance you are accidently mistaken for someone who supports an unfairly treated minority then is that REALLY so bad?
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2015, 07:33:15 am »
people with freckle and people who snore don't get treated like second class citizens

As many as 1 in 10 people are gay, lesbian or bisexual...

I don't think wearing that shirt would make anyone automatically assume you're gay or even support it...
if by chance you are accidently mistaken for someone who supports an unfairly treated minority then is that REALLY so bad?
Having a different opinion is not the same as opressing someone.
You can think homosexuality is wrong but still not give a rat's ass if gays marry or not. Or the other way around.
But claiming someone's opinion is "outdated" or "wrong" is the definition of a bigot. Please let's not behave that way in this friendly forum (this goes to you and anyone else that doesn't respect different opinions)

It's about 4% of population. Literally 0.4 in 10 people.

And yes, it is bad because I don't support it. Same thing if a shirt would make people believe I have some political view. I don't like being associated with causes I'm not involved in.

---

Another thing that pisses me off is the "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.
Most people don't care about things that don't concern them, even if they have opinions about it.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2015, 07:46:48 am »
whether or not children need both male and female role models is beside the point when you take into account how many children are growing up with a single parent. (And growing up fine.) There are a LOT of single parents out there... It's ridiculous to argue that a single parent is better than two, whether they're two of the same sex or opposite. Plus in the case of most children up for adoption they have neither.
Oh I agree 100% that some same sex parents would be much better than some biological parents. Some people in general just shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

And yes, single parents have  tough job, but can do a great job raising children too. Again I'm not saying that it should never be done.

Alabama isn't going down without a fight! They've rebanned Gay Marriage and are requesting a retrial.

http://www.newsweek.com/avoid-supreme-court-gay-marriage-decision-alabama-temporarily-bans-gay-348366

Is this moral opposition, or is it opposition to the federal government enforcing a decision that was previously the state's power? I've read a few articles but it wasn't clear.

And yes, it is bad because I don't support it. Same thing if a shirt would make people believe I have some political view. I don't like being associated with causes I'm not involved in.

You would not BELIEVE the shit I get for wearing my sweet swastika shirt around town.  I just like the sharp angles and bold colours of the design.

Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2015, 07:54:24 am »
You would not BELIEVE the shit I get for wearing my sweet swastika shirt around town.  I just like the sharp angles and bold colours of the design.
I know right.
Are you saying this is not a sweet ass design
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2015, 08:27:48 am »
Having a different opinion is not the same as opressing someone.
You can think homosexuality is wrong but still not give a rat's ass if gays marry or not. Or the other way around.
But claiming someone's opinion is "outdated" or "wrong" is the definition of a bigot. Please let's not behave that way in this friendly forum (this goes to you and anyone else that doesn't respect different opinions)

To be fair, I kept this topic open and gave room for dissenting voices so I don't think I'm that intolerant of different opinions. As I said, so long as it doesn't turn to mindless insults then it's a reasonable discussion.

I feel like these 'but my opinion matters!' arguments were probably the same ones that came up when they finally gave equal rights to women and black people in America.

It's fair to say 'respect my opinion' if the opinion was something like, 'the best flavour M&M is the blue one,' but when the opinion is 'I think a certain type of citizen should be treated as second class and afforded less rights than the rest of us for something they have no control over...' Which is basically what Spock is driving at. Then I think it's fair for me to call him out and say that's an outdated way of thinking that doesn't belong in modern society.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2015, 08:57:53 am »
when the opinion is 'I think a certain type of citizen should be treated as second class and afforded less rights than the rest of us for something they have no control over...'
Then I think it's fair for me to call him out and say that's an outdated way of thinking that doesn't belong in modern society.
He said he believes marriage is for procriation.
If that is his opinion, then gay marriage doesn't make any sense, of course. He never said he hated gays or that they were second class citizens. He focused on political agenda (which exists) and what he believes constitutes the basis of marriage.

Again, this "if you don't support, you hate" mentality is bogus.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2015, 09:01:07 am »
Actually that brings me to a question. Is the primary desire for gay marriage the 'status' and official recognition of being married? Or is it more to do with the benefits in terms of legal statuses etc that come with marriage that was previously only available to hetero marriages?

Were the same benefits offered in the USA under a different title like 'De facto' relationship or something to same sex couples?

Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2015, 09:04:33 am »
I feel like these 'but my opinion matters!' arguments were probably the same ones that came up when they finally gave equal rights to women and black people in America.
Black people were enslaved, sold as cattle, killed, and for years couldn't interact with white people in normal social activities.
They even had separate bathrooms, water supplies. Hell, they had to give up their bus seat just because they were a different color. Cops were allowed to beat them up for jaywalking.

But sure, not being able to marry a bloke, same struggle.

EDIT:
I'm not hating, I just find these comparisions ridiculous.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 09:06:04 am by crackdude »
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2015, 09:21:02 am »
Just read this and thought it was relevant to the thread:

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No issue brings out so much hatred from so many Catholics as homosexuality. Even after over 25 years as a Jesuit, the level of hatred around homosexuality is nearly unbelievable to me, especially when I think of all of the wonderful LGBT friends I have.
The Catholic church must do a much better job of teaching what the Catechism says: that we should treat our LGBT brothers and sisters with "respect, sensitivity and compassion."
But God wants more. God wants us to love. And not a twisted, crabbed, narrow tolerance, which often comes in the guise of condemnations, instructions and admonitions that try to masquerade as love, but actual love.
Love means: getting to know LGBT men and women, spending time with them, listening to them, being challenged by them, hoping the best for them, and wanting them to be a part of your lives, every bit as much as straight friends are part of your lives.
Love first. Everything else later. In fact, everything else is meaningless without love.
https://www.facebook.com/FrJamesMartin/posts/10152861164141496


From a Jesuit priest in the Catholic Church.




EDIT: Thanks, formatting!

Offline Sharky

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2015, 09:26:17 am »
He said he believes marriage is for procriation.
If that is his opinion, then gay marriage doesn't make any sense, of course. He never said he hated gays or that they were second class citizens. He focused on political agenda (which exists) and what he believes constitutes the basis of marriage.

He also said:

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He/She supports gay marriage, just not adoption rights for gay couples. I don't even support marriage for them.

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Being gay is not natural. Marriage should not be extended to same-sex couples because they cannot produce children together.

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Allowing homosexuals to wed could further weaken the institution of marriage. Can I perhaps marry my sister or have three wives?


Firstly, just because HE thinks marriage is for procreation... doesn't mean we all have too. That is a belief for him personally and his future unfortunate wife... Let's face it, that's a pretty unpopular opinion and not a good reason to ban gay marriage. Should we also ban infertile couples from marriage? I mean WHY BOTHER RIGHT? Can't have kids!!

Secondly, homosexuality is as natural as it gets, observed in hundreds of species... It's marriage that is an unnatural human construct.

Finally I don't think allowing gay people to be classed as married is going to weaken an institution in which can be done at a drive thru, in Vegas, by Elvis with a hooker you just met.


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Offline crackdude

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Re: Gay Marriage Congratulations and Debate
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2015, 09:34:27 am »
Firstly, just because HE thinks marriage is for procreation... doesn't mean we all have too. That is a belief for him personally and his future unfortunate wife... Let's face it, that's a pretty unpopular opinion and not a good reason to ban gay marriage.
He never said they should ban gay marriage. He just said he didn't support it, as you quoted.
As for what's popular or not, that doesn't matter one bit. Nowdays being gay is popular, yesteryear being a nazi was the shit. That doesn't mean nazis were right (or does it?!?!?1 *mistery*)

As for what's right or wrong, it all boils down to your belief system (not necessarily religion).
If I think homosex is a wrong thing, then of course I'll think gay marriage is a bad thing. That could be something I live by. But from holding an opinion to actually caring about what gays do or do not goes a long way.

We should all respect each opinion even if we think it's ridiculous. I've read some pretty ridiculous opinions in this thread (Spock's and others), but I prefer living by what Mademan posted.
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