Author Topic: The Top 100 SEGA Games - Discussion  (Read 11352 times)

Offline Barry the Nomad

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The Top 100 SEGA Games - Discussion
« on: October 19, 2015, 10:58:34 am »
So this spun off from discussion in another concerning a certain gaming site making the IGNorant decision to not include a single SEGA game in their top 100 games list. Of course SEGA is deserving of several spots on such a list, being one of the oldest gaming companies in the industry and one of the most innovative.

Instead of continuing to complain about those IGNoramuses, let's make our own list of The Top 50 SEGA Games. Why 50? Because it is the most manageable number to work with, and who knows... the tally could yield a little more than 50. One thing: we need a lot of voters for this to work. So this will be a long running thing, and I urge you to tell your friends to join in the vote.

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How voting works:

The top 50 list will be decided based on contributors listing their top 25 games, with the #1 slot being the list makers favorite game and going in order from there. The more people involved, the more varied the games and the more accurate the final list will become. Lists MUST have 25 to qualify. All lists should be submitted in this topic, and obviously it is one list per person. Once we reach a comfortable number of lists, voting will close. Please read the rules below before making your list.

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Game selection rules:

Any game to have been developed internally by SEGA or published by SEGA from 1960 to October 19th, 2015 are eligible.

Eligible games MUST satisfy at least TWO of the following three qualifiers:
• Published by SEGA
• Developed by SEGA
• IP owned by SEGA


I know people will complain either way, but in the end it will just be too difficult to police each list and call out games like Vanquish or Hell Yeah! or ToeJam & Earl or Ecco the Dolphin. I do not want to have to educate every list submitter on internally developed vs. externally developed and funded by SEGA and published games and I do not what this tread to revert to such a debate.

If it will appease those who wish this was only internally developed, I will denote published or developed in the final list and I will make a list of only the games developed internally by SEGA as well. Also, if you are opposed to published games, don't include them in your list.

Atlus games are not eligible.

Games in which SEGA owns the IP but neither developed the game internally nor published it are not eligible. So Bayonetta 2 can not be listed, Shenmue III would also not have been eligible.

Games SEGA developed but did not publish are eligible.
Like F-Zero GX.

Games featuring SEGA cameos (playable or non-playable) that are not developed or published by SEGA are not eligible.
So no Project X Zone or Dead or Alive 5.

In regards to development teams that existed prior to SEGA and were since bought by the company, only the games released after SEGA's acquisition are eligible.
Following SEGA's acquisition, they are deemed internally developed. Atlus is the exception, as noted above. Example: The first Company of Heroes is not eligible, but the sequel is.

Games ported or remastered to multiple platforms will all count towards a single game, and you can only have a game on your list once.
So do not make a list including 3D Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis), and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Stealth/Taxman. Shenmue II (Dreamcast) and Shenmue II (Xbox) are not separate games. Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle are not separate. Same goes for recent HD rereleases of Dreamcast and Saturn titles. Makers of lists with multiple versions of games will be told to revise and resubmit. If you only have a game listed once, but denote the version or platform, it's not a problem.

Games that are vastly different but share a title can be listed twice.
Examples: Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) and Sonic the Hedgehog (Master System) are okay on the same list. Same goes for versions of arcade games on consoles where they are not ports, but rather are newly developed versions of the game. Space Harrier (arcade) and Space Harrier 3-D (Master System) are okay – Space Harrier (Saturn) or (32X), however, will be counted toward the arcade release.

Games with multiple updates or versions will count towards one game with few exceptions.
Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Online Version. 2 will count as Phantasy Star Online. Phantasy Star Online Episode III: C.A.R.D. Revolution would count as its own game due to the drastic gameplay differences and standalone nature.


Revisions of games are not considered separate titles. They all count towards the base/core game.
Examples: After Burner and After Burner II count toward After Burner and only one may be on a list. But After Burner Climax and After Burner (Master System) are a sequel and a vastly different version respectively. Other examples: Galaxy Force and Galaxy Force II. Virtua Fighter revisions (Virtua Fighter 5, Virtua Fighter 5 Online, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown) count toward the core/base game, but sequels are considered separate titles. OutRun 2, OutRun 2 SP, OutRun 2006: Coast to Coast, OutRun Online Arcade.
If you have questions about what games are considered revisions, please ask!

Compilations (multiple games on a single disc or cartridge) are allowed.
But be aware that listing a compilation gives that compilation a vote, not the individual games. If you really love a few games on Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, you'd be better off listing those games but you can also list the compilation if you believe it is worthy of a top games list. Some compilations border on what is described as exceptions below, so if you have a question about a specific release please ask. 

2 in 1 Game Boy Advance cartridges are not allowed.

Jet Set Radio Future / Sega GT 2002 combo disc is not allowed.

Multi-disc collecitons in which games are given their own discs are not allowed.
Example: Sonic Mega Collection Plus and Super Monkey Ball Deluxe are the individual game discs in a case, sold as a budget title. Space Channel 5 Special Edition for PS2 are individual game discs of Part 1 and Part 2. Sakura Taisen Complete Box are the individual game discs in one box.

The Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles rule: Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles will be deemed a single game. To avoid issues with Sonic the Hedgehog 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, only one will be allowed on a list and the game will count towards Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles. [See reasoning below]

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Scoring works as follows (to be handled by me):

Game #1 on each list is worth 25 points, #2 is 24 points, #3 is 23 points all the way to #25 which is 1 point. Games that do not appear on your list obviously receive zero points for that list.

Highest base point total wins, with the tie-breaker being the number of lists a game appeared on. The double-tie breaker goes to the episode with the higher individual ranking on any of the lists.

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Handy blank list to copy and paste:


25.
24.
23.
22.
21.
20.
19.
18.
17.
16.
15.
14.
13.
12.
11.
10.
9.
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

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If you have a question about any games eligibility, please ask!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 09:22:02 am by Barry the Nomad »

Online Trippled

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 11:59:16 am »
http://segaretro.org/User:Trippled/Sandbox

It's not completly done in terms of layout, but here is a complete list for Sega's games.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:07:05 pm by Trippled »

Offline Randroid

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2015, 12:47:42 pm »
I don't understand why Atlus gets special treatment here. They are 100% Sega owned. It should follow the same "any game after Sega acquired it" rules as the other acquired developers.

Other than that, fully agree with the ruleset and already trying to narrow down my list.

Offline Radrappy

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 12:55:41 pm »
I don't understand why Atlus gets special treatment here. They are 100% Sega owned. It should follow the same "any game after Sega acquired it" rules as the other acquired developers.

Other than that, fully agree with the ruleset and already trying to narrow down my list.

I'm assuming it's because at this point every single Atlus game that has come out under the Sega banner was already in development long before the acquisition.


Barry, this is going to come up in every list but how should Sonic3&Knuckles be handled? 

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 01:07:16 pm »
Atlus is not being considered as while they are now SEGA owned, most of their titles are still marketed and published under the Atlus name. It's not as though Company of Heroes 2 or recent Total War games have Relic or Creative Assembly listed as publisher, SEGA fulfills that role.

I'd also argue that even now, Atlus development is still considered internal Atlus development. Atlus is just too much of a special case where SEGA not only acquired studios, but also the publishing arm and (thus far) have retained the Atlus brand. Also, to Radrappy's point, every game released thus far have been in development before SEGA's acquisition.

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As for Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles.... I think we should allow it to be entered as a single game. While the games themselves were never released to the Genesis as an all-in-one, they do function as a single game when locked together and they have been rereleased together: https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3_%26_Knuckles#Also_Released_for

I'll make a special note of it.


My reasoning is, a majority of voters will likely pick both games and will place them next to one another. While yes, they both function independently, the full package features the complete experience and I think it will help in removing the stress of deciding which half is better and clear up the issue of fans potentially listing Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and S3&K in three slots. If there is somebody out there who loves one game, and despises the other, and refuses to list both... they have issues.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:21:19 pm by Barry the Nomad »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 01:27:06 pm »
What are your thoughts on compilation releases in which the games themselves are simply each on their own disc? I'm struggling to decide if these should be allowed under compilations or not.

Case in point: Space Channel 5 Parts 1 and 2 for the PS2 isn't so much a compilation as it is a combo release, as each game have their own disc. There is no central hub from which you access both games. You are simply buying both games in a single box. Same goes for the Sakura Taisen Dreamcast release, which bundled all the games individual discs in a box.

Also, what are your thoughts on 2 in 1 GBA carts? They are not so much compilations as they are both games ROMS squeezed onto a single cart (like Sonic Advance and Sonic Battle).

Offline Randroid

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 01:33:43 pm »
That's fine, I won't beat the point the death. I just hate reading online about how Sega sucks, but Persona 5 is going to be the best game ever. In my books, if Sega owns the IP, it's a Sega game even if my uncle is the publisher.



Also, compilations should not be allowed as a single entry. Each game should stand on its own. Like you said, it's pretty much just stuffing roms with maybe a hub world to select which to play. They shouldn't count as single entries.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:35:29 pm by Randroid »

Offline Radrappy

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 01:37:25 pm »
haha Im not sure.  I'm actually pressed for space and am considering folding sonic 1 and 2 into Sonic Jam.  But if that's not allowed I'll make do. 

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 01:41:52 pm »
Persona 5 wouldn't be allowed on the list anyway given it releases in 2015, but I hear you. My reasoning for not allowing Atlus was that, while they are owned by SEGA, they still very much retained their structure even down to the publishing arm. Atlus developed games are still published by Atlus, however Relic games are now published by SEGA and not THQ.

Who knows, things may change and SEGA decides to publish Atlus developed games under SEGA, but for now SEGA went to the extra effort to keep the two publishing arms their own brand and I think for the sake of this list we should keep Atlus out of the running.



haha Im not sure.  I'm actually pressed for space and am considering folding sonic 1 and 2 into Sonic Jam.  But if that's not allowed I'll make do. 


It's totally allowed! However be mindful that a vote for Sonic Jam is a vote for Sonic Jam, not Sonic 1 or 2.  ;)


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I've added a few rules in regards to compilations vs. combo discs/carts and disc bundles.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:56:32 pm by Barry the Nomad »

Offline Phantasos

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 05:34:38 pm »
Sega has said on record that they're learning from Atlus, not the other way around. They're completely independent from Sega and their connection is tenuous at best when it comes to everything about publishing and development.

Offline NoirSuede

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 07:56:43 pm »
Can i host this poll at Sonic Stadium and then ferry over the results here ?

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 08:39:41 pm »
Can i host this poll at Sonic Stadium and then ferry over the results here ?

Potentially, I'll let you know. My only concern is that I don't frequent TSS forums and I want to be able to field any questions people may have about specific games. Also, I want to make sure people aren't cheating and submitting lists twice - here and over there.

Offline NoirSuede

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 08:47:11 am »
Does anyone here have a Neogaf account ? If we host the poll there we surely can get a ton of votes.

Offline EnternalHope

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 09:05:23 am »
Does anyone here have a Neogaf account ? If we host the poll there we surely can get a ton of votes.


I would never trust Neo Gaf. They're the LAST community anyone should ever take seriously.


It's an extremely biased forum.(Pro Sony.)

Offline NoirSuede

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Re: The Top 50 SEGA Games
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 09:37:43 am »

I would never trust Neo Gaf. They're the LAST community anyone should ever take seriously.


It's an extremely biased forum.(Pro Sony.)
Well it's near impossible to push a thread in reddit, and you obviously can't trust 4chan, so Neogaf's the only big gaming forum left, and besides there's a ton of Sega fans at Neogaf.