Author Topic: The State of the Earth  (Read 8140 times)

Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2010, 09:23:20 pm »
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 10:11:47 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
So every reason we have given isnt enough?

So you actually currently believe that the world in 2010 is the worst its ever been?
You are showing much faith in our political and social foundations, something I do not share. That alone will make us bias to opposite opinions..
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2010, 03:32:09 am »
Quote from: "Emmett The Crab"
I disagree about religion's part in the crusades.  The Children's' Crusade saw them marching children to their deaths, using them as human shields because god would never allow the children to be harmed.

That's one example of fanaticism. I'll have to read more about the Children's crusade though, but my point still stands that most of them were not as religion based as people sometimes make out.


Quote from: "Sharky"
Ok let me reword it, many, many wars are in part caused by religion, backed by religion or in the name of religion.

If you are going to extend it to any war that had any involvement with religion, then you could say the same about just about anything on earth. Money, Politics, personal issues, skin colour, resources, land, etc etc.

Honestly, I don't think religion is any more responsible for wars than any of those other things, and yet people don't get mad at others for having political views or being involved in finance etc.
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Offline Sieghardt

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 06:45:37 am »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome

The world is better than it has ever been, you just hear about the bad shit more, and that's not a bad thing either, if you know about things you can do something about them.
your average pleb 1000 years ago couldnt tell you africa existed, let alone if a child was starving there.

Quote
How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?

are you serious? up until the 1800s it was common for 12-13 year old girls to be married off and get pregnant.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2010, 08:37:24 am »
Quote from: "crackdude"
You are showing much faith in our political and social foundations, something I do not share. That alone will make us bias to opposite opinions..
No, I'm telling you simple facts about the world today...

Modern technology has made almost every aspect of life easier,
There’s war crime laws now,
Child Labour is illegal in most places,
Child marriage and sexual acts on children are illegal in most places,
Woman have just as much rights as men in a lot of places,
Medical advances have made yesterdays killers into today’s colds...
Police forces are getting more efficient with technology,
Crime has gone down over the years,
Life expectancy has gone up in most places,
People are more tolerant of others.

Sure some places are better off then others but pretty much all places are better off then they were 100 years ago. Europe went though its industrial revolution first, that’s is now why we are the 'rich world'.

But we had to do it alone... with no outside aid, it was a horrible time to live, smog, children put in the most horrible jobs you could imagine that not even an adult would be expected to do... Far worse things. But now we have emerged from that and now other countries that are going though their own versions of this have lots of guidance and laws to abide and outside help, they'll never have it as bad.

You go to some of the most far reaching, most remote tribes in the world and there’s a good chance you will see at least some of them wearing western made clothes maybe even having a village jeep to get around and modern medicine.


Quote from: "MadeManG74"
If you are going to extend it to any war that had any involvement with religion, then you could say the same about just about anything on earth. Money, Politics, personal issues, skin colour, resources, land, etc etc.

Honestly, I don't think religion is any more responsible for wars than any of those other things, and yet people don't get mad at others for having political views or being involved in finance etc.

So you have come full circle and are agreeing with me.

All I ever said is that it is one of the biggest, I said two biggest maybe I was hastey but it's easily one of the biggest reasons for war (and terrorism).

I never said I'm angry at people being religious! I'm not even trying to argue that he can't be or shouldn't just as I've never argued against people having political views or being in finance. I think lifes to short to tell people what to believe or even care what they believe.

I simply said from what I know Religions are one of the big causes of war and often make people narrow minded and intolerable to other people’s beliefs... even today.

And it boils down to this for me at least, If one guy that’s a Muslim and one guy that’s a Catholic become friends they might be the best of friends but at the end of the day if you bring up the subject both believe that the other is going to burn in hell... While I believe that nobody is going to burn in hell. Am I coming across as the bad guy here?
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2010, 02:26:15 pm »
Sharky u mad?

You're just repeating yourself. You won't convince me the world is all butterflies and sunshine..
The things you are describing only happen in a very small percentage of people. Most of the world is living as miserably as they were 100 years ago. Western tshirts sayin USA in the back won't help much. It certainly won't make up for the unfair goods trading and exploration that has been going on for centuries.
And African tribes aren't even the worst problem! What about poverty in China and India? Who's helping them?

You aren't religious and still have a very narrow vision of things. Religion has nothing to do with the way people are. If people are stupid while talking about religion they probably are stupid at many other things.

I also don't believe in hell. I simply believe that people that don't worship God will eventually die and...that's it. It easy to respect others. Too bad Catholicism only realized that this half century.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2010, 03:26:20 pm »
Quote
Religion has nothing to do with the way people are.

Really? Because I swear one of the major reasons for religion was to establish a  moral code governing how people should live their life. Sounds like religion has a lot to do with the way people are.

Example: two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. As such, sex became a very taboo topic of discussion amongst us and both had difficulties meeting women at our school for a relationship (we attended a liberal art school).

Their religion dictated no sex before marriage, they believed in that and as such they had a very different way of viewing relationships and couldn't fully understand friends (i.e. me) who DID have sex before marriage. An inhibition dictated by religion shaped them into who they were and currently are. Thus, religion had PLENTY to do with the way they are.  8-)
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 03:57:52 pm »
Quote
So you have come full circle and are agreeing with me.

Not really... I'm saying that if you are going to be so vague as to just say that religion is involved in many wars, then I could probably say the same thing about anything we do each day.

You said that religion is the CAUSE of MOST wars, which I disagree with. You also said a lot of stuff about how people shouldn't pay much mind to religion or not spend more than a few minutes a day on it because it's damaging to a person, again something I totally disagree with.

In any event, seems like you mellowed out a bit on it since then, so eh... it's all cool. I don't particularly feel like getting into a huge argument, I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.
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Offline Emmett The Crab

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 04:03:35 pm »
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.

Except I don't understand what that thing is in your avatar.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 05:10:11 pm »
Quote from: "Emmett The Crab"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
I've said my piece and we seem to understand eachother.

Except I don't understand what that thing is in your avatar.

All is revealed within!
viewtopic.php?p=14238#p14238
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 05:30:33 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
Sharky u mad?

You're just repeating yourself. You won't convince me the world is all butterflies and sunshine..
crackdude u dumb?

No one and I mean no one here has said that the world is 'butterflies and sunshine' no one even started to hint that the world was perfect in any way.

What happened was YOU said that the world is WORSE now then it has ever been. Many people proved you wrong and you ignored it.


Quote
The things you are describing only happen in a very small percentage of people. Most of the world is living as miserably as they were 100 years ago. Western tshirts sayin USA in the back won't help much. It certainly won't make up for the unfair goods trading and exploration that has been going on for centuries.
And African tribes aren't even the worst problem! What about poverty in China and India? Who's helping them?
It's still better then it was 100 years ago thus the world is a better place...
What part of this do you not understand?


Quote
You aren't religious and still have a very narrow vision of things.
Explain?

Quote
Religion has nothing to do with the way people are. If people are stupid while talking about religion they probably are stupid at many other things.
So it seems.

Quote
I also don't believe in hell. I simply believe that people that don't worship God will eventually die and...that's it. It easy to respect others. Too bad Catholicism only realized that this half century.
Ok replace 'hell' with 'not going to heaven'... same thing.


-----

Quote
Not really... I'm saying that if you are going to be so vague as to just say that religion is involved in many wars, then I could probably say the same thing about anything we do each day.

You said that religion is the CAUSE of MOST wars, which I disagree with.
I'm pretty sure I said it was ONE OF the biggest causes. Which I think it has been. Religious war still goes on today in the form of terrorism.

Quote
You also said a lot of stuff about how people shouldn't pay much mind to religion or not spend more than a few minutes a day on it because it's damaging to a person, again something I totally disagree with.
I simply said you that you shouldn't dwell on it for too long, if you want set aside a few minuites a day to prey or what ever and then get on with your life. That, is my opinion... Disagree as much as you like.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 06:45:50 pm »
NOW I'm ignoring most of your reply. There's no need for calling me dumb and overreacting over what is MY OPINION. Sorry my opinion is different than yours. You have as much facts as I do. Two people looking at the same world from two different perspectives doesn't necessarily make neither of them wrong. And even if you think so, calling me dumb isn't much of a good way of "winning me over".

"It's still better then it was 100 years ago thus the world is a better place...
What part of this do you not understand?"
I do not understand the part where having MORE PEOPLE SUFFERING makes the world a better place.
"The world is getting bigger!" you say. Well that only AMPLIFIES the problems.
I have a different way of looking at the world. Maybe I'm dumb or something, you seem to know it all.

"Ok replace 'hell' with 'not going to heaven'... same thing."
I don't know at which point you think I believe I'll go to Heaven. When I die, I'm dead. I don't know where you are trying to go in this line of thought.

And yes, I am pissed off. There's no need for name calling in the middle of a fast-paced but otherwise respectful debate. :/


------

"two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. "
I'm sure you meant to say 'they didn't PRACTICED sex before marriage' lol what is there to believe?

"An inhibition dictated by religion shaped them into who they were and currently are. Thus, religion had PLENTY to do with the way they are. "
Ok, I agree with this. I change my point of view.

I still think that a religion that makes someone a worse person isn't the right one.
Also, I don't think religion dictates anything.
If I have a religion and it tells me that I shouldn't have sex before marriage, it's my call. I get to decide what to do.. And if I do it I simply take any possible consequences.
The Bible does say that sex with someone other than your wife is sin. But that shouldn't make sex taboo. Just sayin..
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 07:02:10 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
"two of my friends in college were Catholic. They did not believe in sex before marriage. "
I'm sure you meant to say 'they didn't PRACTICED sex before marriage' lol what is there to believe?

I think we're having an english language misunderstanding here. When I say "They did not believe in sex before marriage." it means they did not believe that people should perform the act of sex before being married to the individual that is receiving said sex. Not that they didn't believe it could ever occur. Thas crazy! Sonic Sez!
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 07:09:21 pm »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
I think we're having an english language misunderstanding here. When I say "They did not believe in sex before marriage." it means they did not believe that people should perform the act of sex before being married to the individual that is receiving said sex. Not that they didn't believe it could ever occur. Thas crazy! Sonic Sez!
Oh! That was exactly what I wasn't getting lol
I did not knew it was said that way. I was trying to figure out how someone doesn't actually believe in sex happening lol
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 08:07:56 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
NOW I'm ignoring most of your reply. There's no need for calling me dumb and overreacting over what is MY OPINION. Sorry my opinion is different than yours. You have as much facts as I do. Two people looking at the same world from two different perspectives doesn't necessarily make neither of them wrong. And even if you think so, calling me dumb isn't much of a good way of "winning me over".
You asked if I was mad, i asked if you were dumb... simple.
I'm not trying to win you over... I'm just telling you why you are wrong.


Quote
I do not understand the part where having MORE PEOPLE SUFFERING makes the world a better place.
"The world is getting bigger!" you say. Well that only AMPLIFIES the problems.
I have a different way of looking at the world. Maybe I'm dumb or something, you seem to know it all.
But there ISNT more suffering in the world... That is what people are telling you and you are completely ignoring for some unknown reason and then repeating yourself.

I've given you PLENTY of reasons why the world has improved over the years... and you wonder why im repeating myself?

Technology is at an all time high, medication, vaccines, life span... crime is lower then its ever been there is less war... woman have rights, children have rights... These are things that exist in the world today.

There might be some places in the world that are AS BAD as they were say 100 years ago... But the world, as a whole is ONLY better right now July 2010 then it has ever been.

This is fact dude... fact.
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