SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Barry the Nomad on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 pm
-
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VciNASBghQI/VMPTlzMbk_I/AAAAAAAABgY/4BwVhoMYqgk/s1600/beyond-belief-Frakes-595x347.png)
I wanted to create a topic to discuss that hot button issue of SEGA returning to home console land and becoming a first party developer. What are various members thoughts on the subject? Will it happen? Should it happen? What are your thoughts on those who deny it or those who believe it?
---
My take? SEGA's glory days were no doubt in the first party era, but I think it is foolish to think that the company was doing well. Outside of the Mega Drive/Genesis, every single piece of SEGA home hardware suffered in one region or another. The Dreamcast was an excellent last hurrah in an industry that was changing (in my opinion, for the worse). SEGA did what they had to, and to be quite honest while those first party days were days of vide gaming legend, too many people look past SEGA's early third party years. The Xbox alone had some of the greatest 3D SEGA games of all time, and several legacy franchises released some excellent titles from Virtua Fighter to Sonic the Hedgehog's handheld offerings (surpassing the Game Gear games IMO).
But it isn't a question of which era did you love more, because the first party era will always win, it is a question of looking at things realistically. From a business standpoint, SEGA could not survive in the era of Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo has hung on (but have been slipping for years) thanks to their enduring franchises and (in my opinion, again) droves of fans who will lap up any crap Nintendo will release as long as the words Star Fox or Mario are on it.
SEGA had it rough in the mid 00s and mid 10s, but I think the key is not to disassemble what they rebuilt since they went third party, but to rethink how they handle their games. Good games, solid marketing, and respect of legacy IPs will save SEGA. Not a piece of plastic sat under your TV that has SEGA stamped on it. When I'm holding a Wiimote or duelshock or XBOX pad and a good SEGA game is on my TV or PC screen, I could care less what piece of hardware its on.
Would I want a new SEGA console? Quite honestly, no. Not in 2015 or beyond. That time has passed, and I do not want to see SEGA fighting it out and losing all over again. Imagine, they would have to build up a far larger library of games than they currently can output, sever ties with every single console maker, and wine and dine third party devs so that they can have a diverse range of games.
-
Hear, hear!
*stands and claps*
We should always remember the past for the fun memories it gave us, but that's exactly what it is; the past. You need to look forward and keep moving.
-
I have long come to terms with SEGA being a 3rd party publisher... I would like them to release their games on as many consoles as possible and always on PC/Steam. I don't want a house full of old consoles cluttering up the place because its the only was I can play X, Y or Z SEGA games...
I want SEGA to focus strictly on games and game quality... Just be a quality game publisher/developer and I'll be happy.
-
If you want the company to commit financial suicide, then making them enter the console business again is the way to go.
-
I'll make it short and sweet: SEGA DOES NOT need to compete against Microsoft and Sony at all to make a fantastic quality home hardware hybrid, all they need is to ignore the already declining home console gaming business for a new demographic of people who will buy and invest in SEGA products.
I don't think most SEGA fans understand us more veteran mature fans, we don't want SEGA to compete against PS4 and Xbox at all, we WANT SEGA to do a "Wii" create a console that's aimed at the demographic that SEGA has been saying this year they both need and where they are successful: Casuals and hardcore PC gamers. Screw elitist,"I want my way", 16 year old PS4 fanboys who whine and complain about trivial things and threaten game companies for not doing what they want claiming they know best and know how to run a business.
SEGA can and INDEED return to 1st party WITHOUT competing against Playstation or Xbox. They simply need to sell and market the hybrid to the demographic that will support them. Simple fact is if SEGA fans would look BEYOND traditional gaming, there is a HUMONGOUS,untapped market where they can SUCCEED in regarding the home consumer market.
Also, its not really nostalgia goggles, its the fact that in the 90s, SEGA under CSK Enterprises was a badly run and mismanaged brand. They deserve a second chance and should take another shot at the market.
-
If you want the company to commit financial suicide, then making them enter the console business again is the way to go.
I disagree. People like you need to seriously get rid of these black and white stereotypes and stigma about SEGA.
They don't NEED to compete against PS4 or Xbox at all to be successful in hardware.
-
we WANT SEGA to do a "Wii"
Fuck no... The worst console I ever owned. Yeah sure it did exceedingly well but at what cost? It felt so gimmicky and shit. I'd rather SEGA not limit themselves like that.
-
I disagree. People like you need to seriously get rid of these black and white stereotypes and stigma about SEGA.
They don't NEED to compete against PS4 or Xbox at all to be successful in hardware.
I'm using a thing called common sense.
Entering the console market is a bad idea because it's a large financial gamble. The hardware, software, advertisement, negotiations, it takes a lot, and one mistake in any of these can be fatal in the long run. The worst part is that even if you can bypass all the challenges of planning and designing there's still competition between big companies like Sony and Nintendo. There are a lot of failed consoles because they either fail the former point or are just a victim of being pushed out by already established companies. To put things in prospective: For every SNES or Playstation, there's a Phillips CD-i, Apple Bandai Pippin, Atari Jaguar, Panasonic 3DO, Amiga CD32, HyperScan, Nuon, and Ouya.
In the context of SEGA specifically, the first problem right from the start is convincing people that a new SEGA console would be worth it. Since the company has built a reputation of producing Sonic games that range from mediocre to terrible and the infamy of the company handling their products badly in general, they'll will have to do a lot to reverse that stigma. If they can't, they'll fail right from the start, because third parties and consumers wouldn't want to get involved with something that can easily fail. There's also the big question of whether they can get away with it, because if it bombs and the company can't recover from heavy loses, the entire company is going to sink. Why take that risk when the company can just develop software for whatever platform and tackle any demographic they want, like what the company is doing now.
Then there's the the fact that the presence of smartphones and the rise of PC gaming also caused the console market in general to be knocked down a peg in recent years.
-
What is the point in releasing hardware on this "Wii" level you're speaking of, EternalHope? So SEGA would be returning to the home console market avoiding every possible avenue in which they would be competing with Sony and Microsoft – I assume so that they can still release physical and digital titles to those platforms as well. Does this mean no next gen graphics, no online gaming, no digital marketplace, no third party games and a gimmick control scheme that makes them stand apart? It sounds like to be innovative, SEGA would have to be Nintendo.
You mention the target as being casuals and hardcore PC gamers, but those are two polar opposites. I assume you mean SEGA should focus on this super casual home console in addition to PC, because I can't fathom a console combining the two. So a home console targeting casuals... doesn't mobile cover this? With the likes of Apple TV, airplay, and other methods to play casual titles on the go and on your TV, I really see no reason for SEGA to create a home console that appeals to this market.
-
Fuck no... The worst console I ever owned. Yeah sure it did exceedingly well but at what cost? It felt so gimmicky and shit. I'd rather SEGA not limit themselves like that.
I meant in a demographic way, not in an execution way.
Design and Sell a game console shaped and designed like an Ultrabook, with OLED, built in keyboard,Multi DVD ROM/BD Drive, HDMI/CEC output, wireless controllers from Saturn and Dreamcast(with added 6 buttons), SDHC support, built in Internal Storage, Dreamcast BC, Saturn Model 2 style emulation,UMD like format, Digital HD download, and game titles that not only have FAR lower development costs than PS4, but the retail games can be sold for well under $60.
Of course the Hardware would look something like this from a fan theory:
CPU: Toshiba Super Hitachi ARM32 SH-12 “Sakura” 12 32-bit Cores L3 Chache 2X 32MB 3.5 GHZ Clock Speed using GDDR3 and GDDR4 PC RAM 12 GBs. , 28nm 60W 384-bit.(ARM based off-the-shelf design of Intel Sandy Bridge E) 32GB Bandwidth Bus.GPU: Nvidia “Miles Prower” Modified and customized GeForce 580m GTX 384MBs of GDDR5 RAM at 6GBs. 800 MHZ clockspeed. 22nm 60W. 384-bit. Shader Model 5.0 Open GL 4.2 Open CL 1.0 Average performance of 560 GTX max performance Averaging 4GBs of RAM.VDP: NEC Power VR 6 RL “Rouge” 384 MBs of GDDR 3 RAM at 2 GBs. 615 MHZ Clockspeed similar in performance to ATI Radeon 6220. with API: Caustic Graphics CausticOne. Open RL 1.0RAM: 12 GB.Sound Pioneer PCI Card 2X 64-bit. Dolby DTS Channel 5.1Storage: 64GB or 128GBs of Internal Storage.Connectivity: Sega Gateway LAN or Wi-Fi.Media: Digital Download 2GBs or Toshiba/SEGA COD(Compact Optical Disc) Disc 32 GBs single layer, 64GB Dual Layer 128GB multi layer. With built in DVD Multi-drive. Backwards compatible with GD-ROM.OS: Windows 8.1 modified "Sega Aurora"Resolution: 1080i HD/1080p
Sega is not going to release an underpowered home consumer product, nor would they ever think of doing such a thing.
-
This is such a strange and incredibly specific idea you have. It's not as though SEGA would ever ever do exactly this, let alone anything even remotely like this. You are asking for a very specific laptop with TV out capability, hardware specific controllers, official emulation of dead platforms, and you seem to be describing SEGA's own proprietary online marketplace.
I'm just confused. You say SEGA should release a Wii-like console, then you say they will never release an underpowered product. But then you say they will not be competing with Sony and Microsoft. At this point, do they even have competition in this dream console you're describing? And if they don't then that means there is no market for such a thing. No competition = no market.
-
I'm using a thing called common sense.
Entering the console market is a bad idea because it's a large financial gamble. The hardware, software, advertisement, negotiations, it takes a lot, and one mistake in any of these can be fatal in the long run. The worst part is that even if you can bypass all the challenges of planning and designing there's still competition between big companies like Sony and Nintendo. There are a lot of failed consoles because they either fail the former point or are just a victim of being pushed out by already established companies. To put things in prospective: For every SNES or Playstation, there's a Phillips CD-i, Apple Bandai Pippin, Atari Jaguar, Panasonic 3DO, Amiga CD32, HyperScan, Nuon, and Ouya.
In the context of SEGA specifically, the first problem right from the start is convincing people that a new SEGA console would be worth it. Since the company has built a reputation of producing Sonic games that range from mediocre to terrible and the infamy of the company handling their products badly in general, they'll will have to do a lot to reverse that stigma. If they can't, they'll fail right from the start, because third parties and consumers wouldn't want to get involved with something that can easily fail. There's also the big question of whether they can get away with it, because if it bombs and the company can't recover from heavy loses, the entire company is going to sink. Why take that risk when the company can just develop software for whatever platform and tackle any demographic they want, like what the company is doing now.
Then there's the the fact that the presence of smartphones and the rise of PC gaming also caused the console market in general to be knocked down a peg in recent years.
You seem to keep ignoring the untapped markets OUTSIDE of the traditional console market. The Mobile and PC markets are looking for a product they can call their own. A product that caters to them.
Also software 3rd party wise has risen to record and expensive production costs and budgets. SEGA has struggled to even break even with its consumer game division. This division hasn't made a single revenue since 2009.
What is the point in releasing hardware on this "Wii" level you're speaking of, EternalHope? So SEGA would be returning to the home console market avoiding every possible avenue in which they would be competing with Sony and Microsoft – I assume so that they can still release physical and digital titles to those platforms as well. Does this mean no next gen graphics, no online gaming, no digital marketplace, no third party games and a gimmick control scheme that makes them stand apart? It sounds like to be innovative, SEGA would have to be Nintendo. You mention the target as being casuals and hardcore PC gamers, but those are two polar opposites. I assume you mean SEGA should focus on this super casual home console in addition to PC, because I can't fathom a console combining the two. So a home console targeting casuals... doesn't mobile cover this? With the likes of Apple TV, airplay, and other methods to play casual titles on the go and on your TV, I really see no reason for SEGA to create a home console that appeals to this market.
As far as I'm concerned, the traditional home console business has become so out of touch, such a pedantic microcosm of overzealous,immature young,overzealous,self-righteous misers and elitists.
Game Journalism now in days is even worse. Poorly researched articles,click bait,bias,misleading shoehorned reviews,over-exaggerated speculation and even worse, allowing publishers to overpromote rehashed FPS and mediocre Open World games.
The console fanbase of this generation has shown that they don't put their money where their mouths are and that they're entitled to have their way and a game be made the way THEY want.
Again, SEGA doesn't need them, and they don't need SEGA.
There's a market for a SEGA product, look past hardcore gamers and you'll find it.
Regarding Casual markets, its an easy market to pursue. Atari proved it time and time with 2600. It's all about the appeal and the market. Regarding mobile, SEGA not only has been successful in this field, they've also expermented with the idea of running an App that allows mobile game app access on TV screens. Ever heard of "Terebina?"
PC wise, name one Japanese publisher who's more PC and Steam centric than Sega. If you think they're too challenging, you have to look at what's their tastes. This is the mistake console manufacturers make over and over again, PC gamers don't play open world games, and just play Fallout or Portal or just World of Warcraft. They have a variety of different gaming genre tastes. Also for ascetics, PC gamers want QUALITY, optimization that's adequate enough for them. The puny AMD Jaguar is not the type of design that can run high end games with hyper threading and max HD resolution without fail.
The Steam business is a well run.well managed digital market with much more inexpensive alternatives to retail games. Because gamers whine way too much about DRM, not enough resources are applied to it by publishers.
Your also missing the point in that last sentence, Apple TV is extremely Niche. It is not something well known among casuals. The market for Apple TV is extremely miniscle and has remained so for over half a decade. Know why Casuals play games on their iPhones and Androids? Because its simplistic, dirt cheap,reliable, and convenient. You can take your iPhone with you. You can't take your PS4 with you. Also iPhones and Androids are more common and easier to obtain. SEGA could very easily market and successfully sell an Ultrabook style hybrid because you could TAKE it with you and could also hook it up to your HD TV.
Casual and PC gaming has become very diverse, but the traditional console market has not. It's become more and more limited by the malaise of the people and demographic running and influencing it. Gone is Quality Control. Gone is affordability, Gone is cutting edge, Gone is memorable,collectible game releases, and GONE are the days of moderately budgeted well priced titles that sell well enough to maintain consistency.
-
This is such a strange and incredibly specific idea you have. It's not as though SEGA would ever ever do exactly this, let alone anything even remotely like this. You are asking for a very specific laptop with TV out capability, hardware specific controllers, official emulation of dead platforms, and you seem to be describing SEGA's own proprietary online marketplace.
I'm just confused. You say SEGA should release a Wii-like console, then you say they will never release an underpowered product. But then you say they will not be competing with Sony and Microsoft. At this point, do they even have competition in this dream console you're describing? And if they don't then that means there is no market for such a thing. No competition = no market.
SEGA has been playing with the idea for several years. In addition to the 2011 "Kids Pad" prototype, SEGA also licensed out its console skins to Japanese PC retailer Enterbrain in 2013.
A Wii-like console does not have to be underpowered. Sega doesn't have a history of releasing underpowered products, maybe Mega CD in Japan in 1991 and 32X in America in '94, but then again, those were just attachments.
Being an Arcade giant, SEGA DOES have architectural talent for Hardware. The cool thing about SEGA consoles was their unique, schematics and ergonomics. Mark III/Master System trounced Famicom in every way. Mega Drive may have been 2 years behind Super Famicom, but it has both better sprite resolution and a faster,much more balanced Microprocessor.
Saturn was superior to PS1. It was just misunderstood and never fully realized.It wasn't a nightmare to program nor was it as convoluted as people claim. It was Sega's failure to channel enough resources to teach people properly how to utilize its hardware since Sega of America wasted all of 1994 on 32X and Sega of Japan failed to properly communicate with them.
Dreamcast was a superior.better design console than PS2. WAY easier to program, WAY better at anti alaising,cheaper,much more refined,better optimized. SEGA just didn't have to money to compete since they blew most of it on the FAILED GameWorks chain.
I don't understand why people think SEGA is going to have to immediately compete against Sony and MS. Sony is not the same big conglomerate they were in the 90s. They have FAR less capital(They're market cap back in 1998 was over $70 billion), and far more divisions that are nearing red. Why do people think that just because they have ONE successful product the PS4 that's only making semi decent profit for the whole company that SEGA who clearly has much more cash flow couldn't compete?
As of 2015 Sony's cap is only $32 billion. This is a far cry from 1998.
I see. They still think that its 1998. That Sony can crush their competitors with deep pockets. They don't realize thats something Sony no longer has. Sony lost a load of market value,capital, and money the past decade. PS3 and its 7 year development cost them over $10 billion in budget losses and the company's large divisions started to sink in red.
Also your forgetting something. once SEGA Holdings,Ltd opens for public trading, they'll very likely sell off SegaSammy's capital to Toshiba.
-
The 1980s and 1990s were a different time for gaming entirely. There were many companies like Apple, Atari, NeoGeo, Nintendo, Philipps, etc. that were competing along with Sega. There are only three companies competing in home gaming hardware now. I think smartphones and PC games could eventually take them over. It would be very cool and nostalgic to see Sega come back to the console business. The problem is that they probably would never have the funds to try and compete. They would need some other company to help them out like Toshiba, which was mentioned in an earlier thread. I can't see that happening though. Plus, it would probably be too late for home consoles at that point in time.
-
They have the funds (thanks to Sammy), but they would want to make money, which they won't.
-
It would be cool to have some stuff from them mind. A steam/gog-like API service, controller etc.
-
It would be cool to have some stuff from them mind. A steam/gog-like API service, controller etc.
They had PlaySEGA flash service. But that was just based on Genesis stuff. Of course one problem is that Sega West ignored Saturn/Dreamcast stuff for years, until the 2010's, which was very late.
-
Hmm, sort of. That was never fully optimised for me. I was thinking a service that has everything it can have (third party, indie etc) and access to Sega's own back catalogue.
-
Closest thing I can see to a new SEGA console is a SEGA branded Steam machine. Could come with one (or several) titles pre-installed, a themed controller or two, maybe custom hardware. If they wanted to go really attempt to get SEGA fans on board, they'd shape it like the Saturn or Dreamcast.
-
A SEGA branded Steam machine is something I've been hoping for for a while. It is a platform and digital marketplace already in place that SEGA has a foothold in, and SEGA are not taking the risk of going first party. It would simply be a Steam machine appealing to SEGA hardware enthusiasts.
-
Haven't the other steam machines been greeted with a "meh" reception?
It's kind of why I'd like to see them go for a service like Steam instead. One that could perhaps be implemented onto multiple devices if needed, or if the desire is there.
-
It's true... I think the Steam Machine concept kind of... ran out of steam. *ducks* But yeah, they announced it and then canceled the entire first wave of those boxes. By the time they finally got some on the market, there wasn't much excitement about them anymore. It's kind of a tough sell, anyway. PC enthusiasts prefer to build their own or buy from 'configurer' sites. Casual folks might not even understand the concept of a Steam Machine. About the best thing that's come of it is the Steam controller, and even that kind of has a learning curve.
-
It's true... I think the Steam Machine concept kind of... ran out of steam. *ducks* But yeah, they announced it and then canceled the entire first wave of those boxes. By the time they finally got some on the market, there wasn't much excitement about them anymore. It's kind of a tough sell, anyway. PC enthusiasts prefer to build their own or buy from 'configurer' sites. Casual folks might not even understand the concept of a Steam Machine. About the best thing that's come of it is the Steam controller, and even that kind of has a learning curve.
On the plus side however, if such a day comes where Value want to jump into the console market, they have the flexibility and resources through their PC business with Steam. This is what I'd like to see Sega do.
-
Not only did the Steam Machine suffer from a LONG period between announcement and release (2+ years I believe, even longer if you count the leaks of it, which would probably be three and a half years), but it lacked exposure. The most likely people to buy a Steam Machine are people who already own a gaming PC. Not only because those are the people who know about it, but those are the people familiar enough with the platform to circumvent its many issues. About the only advertisement I heard of were small tables set in the corner of select Gamestops. That's definitely not bad advertisement, but it's not enough, imo. It'll sell some units, but not as much as actual marketing would.
And then there was the issue of the things being too damn expensive, the reportedly bad performance of SteamOS, the lukewarm response to the controller, I can't see it not failing. But, if during that time, SEGA hops on and releases their own Machine at a reasonable cost, I'll definitely be interested.
-
The 1980s and 1990s were a different time for gaming entirely. There were many companies like Apple, Atari, NeoGeo, Nintendo, Philipps, etc. that were competing along with Sega. There are only three companies competing in home gaming hardware now. I think smartphones and PC games could eventually take them over. It would be very cool and nostalgic to see Sega come back to the console business. The problem is that they probably would never have the funds to try and compete. They would need some other company to help them out like Toshiba, which was mentioned in an earlier thread. I can't see that happening though. Plus, it would probably be too late for home consoles at that point in time.
Outside of traditional game consoles, there's a chance for SEGA to do another product with successful results. Also, again, once Sega Holdings opens for public trading, the chances of them merging with Toshiba would be highly very likely.
That's not correct Trippled, Sammy is a wholly owned subsidiary of Sega Holdings,Ltd/Kabushiki Kaisha Sega. They would indeed make revenue if they sold their own product to a specific demographic.
SEGA's Mobile,PC and Arcades divisions make FAR more profit than the consumer game business. There's the answer. Those are the demographics that will buy a SEGA platform.People act like the consumer game market prints more money and that its a far more profitable market for SEGA.
It's not.
-
A SEGA branded Steam machine is something I've been hoping for for a while. It is a platform and digital marketplace already in place that SEGA has a foothold in, and SEGA are not taking the risk of going first party. It would simply be a Steam machine appealing to SEGA hardware enthusiasts.
SEGA has had this type of idea on the table since the mid 2000s.
-
SEGA's Mobile,PC and Arcades divisions make FAR more profit than the consumer game business. There's the answer. Those are the demographics that will buy a SEGA platform.People act like the consumer game market prints more money and that its a far more profitable market for SEGA.
It's not.
The idea behind all of those markets is that they don't need to buy a Sega specific platform. You can't possibly actually believe half of the stuff you're saying in this thread, can you? A consumer-based Sega piece of hardware would completely flop no matter who it was targeted at. They're done with consumer hardware. The end.
-
The idea behind all of those markets is that they don't need to buy a Sega specific platform. You can't possibly actually believe half of the stuff you're saying in this thread, can you? A consumer-based Sega piece of hardware would completely flop no matter who it was targeted at. They're done with consumer hardware. The end.
Yes they do. This demographic does NOT care for traditional consoles.
Why would they need to by a console that doesn't appeal to them just to play Sega titles?
And no it would not flop. Care to prove it or elaborate?How do you know it would?
-
Outside of traditional game consoles, there's a chance for SEGA to do another product with successful results. Also, again, once Sega Holdings opens for public trading, the chances of them merging with Toshiba would be highly very likely.
I think this bothers me the most about your posts...your claims about Toshiba, Sega Sammy etc. are completly baseless. You ask for proof you don't have any yourself other than vague trademarks.
-
I think this bothers me the most about your posts...your claims about Toshiba, Sega Sammy etc. are completly baseless. You ask for proof you don't have any yourself other than vague trademarks.
Nobody has ever asked me for anything here.
Trademark? Sega Holdings,Ltd is a HOLDING brand which is a mothership parent holding all investors,assets,equity and cash flow for said labels and divisions . Which DO handle and execute M&A once they start public trading in the NIKKEI.
Trademarks?The WIPO is the Global Database for ALL international business trade. There's a reason why its called the Worldwide Intellectual Property Organization. Nothing about it is baseless at all. Which is why I've been discussing it. Its a database that determines how a Company/Corporation will conduct business in all jurisdictions where its operated in.
How is it baseless?
-
Nobody has ever asked me for anything here.
Trademark? Sega Holdings,Ltd is a HOLDING brand which is a mothership parent holding all investors,assets,equity and cash flow for said labels and divisions . Which DO handle and execute M&A once they start public trading in the NIKKEI.
Sega Holdings is an immediate holding company which still is different from an overall holding company.
Trademarks?The WIPO is the Global Database for ALL international business trade. There's a reason why its called the Worldwide Intellectual Property Organization. Nothing about it is baseless at all. Which is why I've been discussing it. Its a database that determines how a Company/Corporation will conduct business in all jurisdictions where its operated in.
How is it baseless?
They are incredibly broad. It does not indicate home hardware at all.
-
Sega Holdings is an immediate holding company which still is different from an overall holding company.
They are incredibly broad. It does not indicate home hardware at all.
Sega Holdings,Ltd is the new holding umbrella of Sega Sammy Holdings,Inc. They aren't yet in the IB and aren't public trading yet.
You cannot have more than one holding brand. Only one is allowed public trading. Once SHD starts public trading, Sega Sammy will/must be removed from the NIKKEI and S&P. An immediate holding brand is known as a successor TRANSFEREE/NEW HOLDER. International Business trade policy states that a Holding company cannot operate more than one thats not seperate. A different holder would have to be completely seperate and unrelated from the company. It cannot be a subsidiary or division. An immediate Holding brand means that it will take over all operations and ownership of said Holdings group once it begins public trading.
For example, Aesir Holdings is the investment group for defunct US Anime label ADV Films, Section 23 Holdings however is unrelated and the parent of Sentai Filmworks,Inc which is a completely different label and company from A.D. Vision.
Broad?No, they state and indicate plans to eventually start making home consumer products at some point in the future. Its pretty clear on the WIPO ROMARIAN document.
-
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3801.0
The WIPO thing you dug up is incredibly broad.
Regarding the immadiete holding company thing...make up what you want I guess. General dictionaries, say that it is holding company under a general umbrella. Two holding companies can exist. Sega had them before.
-
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3801.0 (http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=3801.0)
The WIPO thing you dug up is incredibly broad.
Regarding the immadiete holding company thing...make up what you want I guess. General dictionaries, say that it is holding company under a general umbrella. Two holding companies can exist. Sega had them before.
I'm not making anything up. A Holding company is exactly what I said earlier.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/holdingcompany.asp
"holding company is an organization that contains other companies called subsidiaries. The company must present consolidated financial statements to its investors and the Securities and Exchange Commission. Its managers and Board of Directors generally maintain control of the subsidiaries. In the United States, a holding company must hold greater than 80 percent of the shareholders' voting rights in order to receive any tax benefits."
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holding%20company
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/beginnerscorner/a/understanding-a-holding-company.htm
Sega Holdings,Ltd is not, I repeat NOT a subsidiarity of Sega Sammy. It is the incoming successor Holding brand for Sega and Sammy as a whole:
http://www.sega-entertainment.jp/company_profile/group.html
Ltd stands for Limited Liability, that's because again, Sega Holdings is not yet in operation as a public trading group.
Broad? "Various Instruments,Parts & Fittings and design in the field of video games".
That's not broad at all. It's fairly specific.
-
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/immediate-holding-company.html
"A company which maintains the controlling interest in a different company despite the fact the company itself is held by another entity. The company which holds control over both companies is considered to be the holding company."
"Various Instruments,Parts & Fittings and design in the field of video games".
Sounds broad to me.
-
Would Toshiba even want to jump into a market such as this even if they did buy part of SEGA?
If it was Amazon, Samsung or someone of equal reputation and resources, I could perhaps see it. Otherwise, I can't see it really.
-
There is no reason to believe Toshiba wants to buy SEGA or has any interest in this market at all. Eternal Hope basically finds little scrapes of information that can be spun into what he wants to believe, fill in the gaps with assumptions and guess work and send it back out as facts.
You only need to look at SEGA's success on Steam/PC, and mobile to know they'll never bother going back to making their own hardware, why even risk it?
-
Exactly. There's no point.
-
Would Toshiba even want to jump into a market such as this even if they did buy part of SEGA?
If it was Amazon, Samsung or someone of equal reputation and resources, I could perhaps see it. Otherwise, I can't see it really.
Yes. Because they've tried several times before to purchase Sega Enterprises,Ltd from CSK Enterprises.
Toshiba Negotiated in 1997 to attempt to merge with Sega Enterprises,Ltd and again in 2000. This time in 2000, they attempted to purchase all shares,assets,earnings of Sega Enterprises,Ltd from CSK.
Today, Toshiba is a large ocean liner with tremendous equity and global capital split across multiple subsidiaries. They STILL have interest in SEGA particularly its Arcade and Electronics division. And since 2008. have been one of the primary investment shareholders(one of many firms who purchased a tiny percentage stock) of Sega Sammy.
The other company that also might have interest in SEGA is NBCUniversal.
-
There is no reason to believe Toshiba wants to buy SEGA or has any interest in this market at all. Eternal Hope basically finds little scrapes of information that can be spun into what he wants to believe, fill in the gaps with assumptions and guess work and send it back out as facts.
You only need to look at SEGA's success on Steam/PC, and mobile to know they'll never bother going back to making their own hardware, why even risk it?
What does Toshiba have to do with SEGA? Maybe someone just said "hmm... let's see who I can rumor to buy SEGA this time. Oh! Toshiba hasn't been mentioned. I'll say Toshiba!" I know they both had success in the Japanese market, but come on. Do you really think Toshiba would take the risk of losing that much money? Why would Toshiba want to do that?
Also, they haven't made a SEGA steam console yet? Really? I thought they had. Guess they better start trying that.
-
What does Toshiba have to do with SEGA? Maybe someone just said "hmm... let's see who I can rumor to buy SEGA this time. Oh! Toshiba hasn't been mentioned. I'll say Toshiba!" I know they both had success in the Japanese market, but come on. Do you really think Toshiba would take the risk of losing that much money? Why would Toshiba want to do that?
Also, they haven't made a SEGA steam console yet? Really? I thought they had. Guess they better start trying that.
Toshiba has over $160 billion worth of equity and assets estimated near $190 billion.
They tried to buy Sega in 2000 when it was in red, but Okawa wasn't having it.
Why so cynical? SEGA is in black and very profitable. Why would Toshiba loose money if they purchased SEGA Holdings,Ltd?
-
Okay, what gap is there in the market?
-
I for one would love to see Sega re-enter the home "console" business. I quote console, because it doesn't have to be specifically a console. Could be a Hololens, or VR type thing. If it was a console, it would need to compete with Sony, MS and Nintendo, and they just couldn't win. With their bad rep for crappy games just spammed at the console market, no one in their right mind would buy one. They seriously need to re-work their reputation. Once done, they would need to wait for one of the current 3 competitors to bail out, and then they would need to price the system cheaper than any of the remaining 2, yet be as powerful, so take a huge hit on profit for hardware. They would have to market the shit out of this for months prior to release, and we know Sega hasn't had a good marketing campaign since the Sega Scream. On top of that they would need to advertise guaranteed to be good games exclusive to their system, first party, third party doesn't matter. They will need to be 100% exclusive, and a must have for every regional market.
If that was to happen, I would buy. But it will never happen.
-
I for one would love to see Sega re-enter the home "console" business. I quote console, because it doesn't have to be specifically a console. Could be a Hololens, or VR type thing. If it was a console, it would need to compete with Sony, MS and Nintendo, and they just couldn't win. With their bad rep for crappy games just spammed at the console market, no one in their right mind would buy one. They seriously need to re-work their reputation. Once done, they would need to wait for one of the current 3 competitors to bail out, and then they would need to price the system cheaper than any of the remaining 2, yet be as powerful, so take a huge hit on profit for hardware. They would have to market the shit out of this for months prior to release, and we know Sega hasn't had a good marketing campaign since the Sega Scream. On top of that they would need to advertise guaranteed to be good games exclusive to their system, first party, third party doesn't matter. They will need to be 100% exclusive, and a must have for every regional market.
If that was to happen, I would buy. But it will never happen.
Your so sure it will never happen.Yet you can't prove that it won't.
On top of that, crappy games? A few outsourced mediocre titles that weren't even developed by them means they make crappy games?
"They haven't had a good marketing campaign since the Sega Scream" I stopped reading right there. You don't sound like a Sega fan at all. You sound like you've recycled opinions from unprofessional,biased, poorly written game sites. Your comment is full of sour grapes especially with the claim that SEGA won't sell a product cheaper then their competitions.
I am growing sick of this console generation. Never have I see so much soreheadedness in my entire 30 years of gaming.
-
@EternalHope
You also can't prove that it will.
You attack me with no knowledge of whom I am, yet you claim that I am not a Sega Fan. I am a Sega fan, I own and still play my Master System, Genesis, and Sega CD. I own the Game Gear, Saturn, and Dreamcast, all original since they released. All still working(except my game gear). I have purchased and read books solely on the fact that they mention Sega. Master System was my first console, I have defended Sega as being the better one throughout my childhood, and to this day I will still stick by Sega over Nintendo even if Sega is churning out crap.
Yes, nearly every sonic game has been nothing but quickly churned out crap. All of their good games are made by someone else and published by them with the exception of Valkyria. And even then, Creative Assembly is going south, look at the reviews of their latest Total War series, plagued with bugs, and spammed with overpriced DLC.
Also please PLEASE enlighten me on any marketing campaign that was successful and worth a damn since the Sega Scream. Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice with Carl's Jr./Hardees, when Sega delayed the release Carls Jr/Hardees deleted tweets on their Sonic Boom ad campaign, and pulled back anything promoting it, and removed it from their coolkids website, they had all of the toys for the promotion and gave them out with no other marketing attached to it, posters, commercials etc.
Your comment is full of sour grapes especially with the claim that SEGA won't sell a product cheaper then their competitions.
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting your quote, but I said "...they would need to price the system cheaper than any of the remaining 2, yet be as powerful, so take a huge hit on profit for hardware." Meaning I did not claim that Sega won't sell a product cheaper than their competitors, I claimed that they would need to do so.
So you need to step down from your all high and mighty better-than-thou pedestal and think before you write and attack/judge someone. Nowhere did I state what I said was fact, as the purpose of the original post it is an opinion, and should be taken as that.
-
I think SEGA even had Carl's Jr only carry the toys, as I checked a Hardee's and they had no knowledge of the toys and the mention of the toys was removed from their website. Hardee's only had the digital goodies online.
-
I think SEGA even had Carl's Jr only carry the toys, as I checked a Hardee's and they had no knowledge of the toys and the mention of the toys was removed from their website. Hardee's only had the digital goodies online.
I cannot vouch if Carl's Jr in my area had the toys themselves either, during their promotion I only went twice and never say any posters or advertisements about the toys at all. But according to their coolkids website it shows the Sonic Boom toys for Oct-Nov.