SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: George on February 18, 2011, 05:52:20 pm
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[youtube:mkvy2gaj]DWHHlnbZOYQ[/youtube:mkvy2gaj]
I don't agree with most of his points, but some are right. People do point out at 'x era of games' and talk about how 'the past was so great'.
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I think I've come to the conclusion that most games one played in generations past should be left there. This is not to say that they haven't "aged-well" or weren't that good to begin with. I think the games are as good as they ever were. The only things that changes are:
1. You
2. The new audience
And a lot of the times you are "the new audience."
Old'ish-school games like Super Mario Bros, Ristar, and GoldenEye (N64) I've played on a consistent basis since their release. I've never quite taken a, for instance, decade-long hiatus and then gone back to them. Because of which, my opinion doesn't change much.
Conversely, when I download a game that I literally haven't played in that span of time, there's something missing. Maybe it's lack of sense of newness. Maybe it's the lack of a childhood friend by my side. Maybe that your hobby has grown, a critical eye replaces an open mind. (Perhaps it's not realizing how insanely difficult most NES games are!)
In either case, gaming nostalgia is sometimes best left in less discriminating times.
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Dear god he's a porker! And he hated Sonic Colors.
I love retro games, but I don't try to compare retro games to modern games too much. Rather, I like to momentarily live in the past and play obscure Dreamcast or Saturn or Genesis games with the knowledge that at they are a product of their time and I just have fun. It's not a bad thing to look at them through the eyes of an eight year old either, as long as you're AWARE that you are going this. I played Tiny Toons on the Genesis a while back and the grumpy older gamer was trying to pick it apart, but the inner child (Michael Jackson would be proud) in me won out and I just enjoyed it for what it was.
Also, disagree that games like Jurassic Park for the Genesis was made simply to make money. Yes, it started out as that with some suit at Universal signing an agreement to make a game to earn some cash, but once the game reached the development stage I am certain that there were designers and programmers who were using true creativity and passion for their work to create a game that they hoped would be fun.
Example: I design advertisements for an online University. Our campaigns start with our higher ups and our marketing director deciding the best ad spots and tag lines that would earn us more students and more money. However, when the project hits creative (me) I actually do put creativity and passion into the work so as to create something new, unique, pleasing to the eye and most importantly something I'm proud of. Right there is proof that even if somethings main goal is to make money, there is still a human side to it.
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Yeah, you will see most people online who argue about this stuff saying that when they were young, games were the best. Regardless of the time when they were children, they always have the same response.
I have seen a lot of younger people - Like half my age going around saying NES was the best console ever and stuff like that. I can appreciate that, but it is really starting to annoy me, especially with how smart they usually think they are.
I can see why some people dislike games nowadays, in a lot of ways they are a lot more predictable than ever before, which can take away a lot of the awe in discovery that used to be (for instance, the right stick is almost always used for camera, the right trigger on the Xbox 360 is almost always used for driving or shooting, etc.), but I completely believe there is just as much creativity and passion in the industry as there was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, if not more than ever.
I am certain that there were designers and programmers who were using true creativity and passion for their work to create a game that they hoped would be fun.
I think this is true with almost every game out there. Six or seven years ago, I used to really ream developers over for releasing titles that looked like cheap cash-ins, but since that time I have met so many people who come from weak releases, and find that each one of them that are in the industry because they love games always try really hard to make a great product, even when it may seem hopeless.
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I think games are more predictable because there are larger number of games released now then before. I still think there is 'wtf did this come from' titles released more than once a year. Even some predictable titles can be addicting.
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I disagree, I just think he got shitty taste. He's making a pretty bad point imo. In my opinion the gaming industry has evolved indeed, for the better of course, but I still consider the 90's as the peak of gaming. Especially as a SEGA fan with the great library the genesis had(and still has). But even the ps1 with it's beautiful library. That can be considered as retro gaming as well right? Those blocky low polygon ghraphics, I mean why would someone play such an ugly game, we're in the 21st century. Time doesn't affect pure good quality games however, and there was alot of that in the 90's. Games which were alot more "fun" than the average game today.
I think the problem with todays gaming is not because the audiences have become more intelligent as Jim was discribing. I think they have become more superficial and shallow in general. A game like call of duty is great, games like gears of war are nice, a gta is always fun. But no way would I consider them as what the industry/audiences make of them. Vanquish is where it should be at.
Companies are giving in to those shallow audiences, i mean in the end it's still about money. There are a few companies that still deliver style/originality with pure qualit, and SEGA is among them. Games like Binary Domain may be aimed towards the western people but they're still keeping it fresh. Valkyria Chronicles, another game. Nintendo with it's main franchises also still keeping it real.
He's not doing the retro days any justice. I think he needs to stfu :afroman:
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I agree with what he says, but watching him bugs me. I was a teenager for the NES and Master System and Genesis, and now as an adult, I don't have the time or patience to play a game that doesn't save my progress. There isn't one game on the NES that I care about. Half of my old collection is about Nostalgia, and half is about really good quality games. There are some really good old games. I think the gaming industry has aged with us, and they want to make games that make us 30 somethings (and 20 somethings) interested.
Why is he wearing sunglasses indoors, and why does he get so mad about this? W
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The sunglasses is his 'gimmick' and so is being angry. I can go ahead and hate it, but it has been working for him. He did some Sonic article thing on Game Informer last month, basically disagree with most of his views on Sonic though.
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My take is that there are a few excellent games from every era... games that will always be worth playing, because their depth transcends whatever technical limitations existed at the time of their completion. Once I was able to break myself out of the hype machine that builds up around each new release, I was able to find more enjoyment in the vast library of games from all times throughout this relatively young technological art form. What is considered "retro" is an ever-advancing classification; perhaps it's more accurate simply to refer to games by the part of the decade in which they were made (late 70s, mid-90s, etc). It seems most people do tend to keep the games of their childhood/teenage years among their favorites of all times, no matter what... but for those open-minded enough to explore further into the past, and onward into the future, a lifetime of enjoyment and appreciation awaits. (The same can be said for true music lovers, who can find delight in the earliest recordings, and, prior to those, sheet music from centuries ago -- just as they can be fascinated with the spectrum of latest releases from indies and huge labels.) Yes, there is a lot of drek to sort through to get to the best stuff. But each era of gaming was forged by artists and technicians doing their best to bring forth their vision, and laying the foundation for those who would follow. I would personally be thrilled to play Space War or Tennis for Two, or the Magnavox Odyssey. I've played some 1970s coin-ops which weren't even video games, more like mechanical games that clearly had an influence on the video games that followed.
This blowhard in the video is just using a pissy attitude to gain some dismal little measure of internet fame. I hardly even like to read random peoples' comments on articles on the internet because it's a mostly festering breeding ground of stupidly rigid opinions.
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The thing that I dislike the most about people like Jim Sterling, is how they underestemate the intelligence of some gamers. This is sort of a general statement. I hate it when people make retro gaming look as if it's just based of nostolgia.
There may be a few blinden nostalgia fags here and there, but in general a lot of gamers do actually realise when a game isn't that great anymore.
I had to deal with this a long time especially when trying to make my point about sonic 4. "You are just blinded by nostalgia, the games weren't that great, sonic adventure 2 is better". Jim Sterling is pulling off that same attitude towards sonicfans. Sonic colors on the wii got a 4.5 but the ds version got an 8,5. Gtfoutta here :|
Of course it's all subjective, but the fact of the matter is, older gamers that grew up with retrogames can easily seperate the good and bad games.
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Where do you stand on Sonic 4, crazytails? I forgot. :P
Legitimate question, sometimes I forget the stance people have on certain games. :)
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HAhaha :P well... Starting up the game gets me sort of irritated.
It's how "angry video game nerd" would describe a bad game full of frustration. That's kind of how I feel about it sadly.
The subject used to make me go apeshit :oops:
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I liked what he said, he doesn't present his case very well but he has a point if you are seeing things from a technology point of view.
I don't think he took the simplicity and charm of retrogames into account, he just took the technical aspect.
Let's leave it at that.
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Only thing I like is the final fantasy 9 music played in the background
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I don't think he took the simplicity and charm of retrogames into account, he just took the technical aspect.
Let's leave it at that.
Simplicity and charm... listen, I think the point that is being missed here is that these "simple and charming" games of the past are the giants on whose shoulders stand today's more complex games. The people who made games in the early 80s and prior to that, are pioneers whose work was trailblazing. In some cases they are the ones who imagined this entire technological artform by combining elements that had never been combined before. Using a controller to change the picture on your TV screen?? -- when all that had been possible before was to sit there and watch the TV broadcast? These people had revolutionary minds. The technical achievements of "retro" games are staggering. Anyone who cannot grasp this fact just can't be taken seriously at all!
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Funny thing:
Retro: Hardcore simple games brah!
New games: Complex awesome thinking games are hardcore, simple games are for mainstream. Suck your Guitar Hero and Peggle!
Who they change.
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A most pointless video indeed...
Anyway, I'm not sure that nostalgia is a factor, I didn't get a chance to play games on the Atari 2600 well until several decades after it was history and I love many of the games on that platform and grew up with Arcade games and a Sega Saturn.
The arcade version of Virtua Fighter is what I consider my first game (I had briefly played nintendos and megadrives at friends' houses but never really became interested in gaming until Virtua Fighter)
NES however... meh.
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Why do we have to label everything?
Retro, hardcore, mainstream, casual.. They are all games.
I do not enjoy all retro games. But I love many of them simply because they are fun games. I like them as much as any modern fun game.
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Yeah, labels suck. I mean, this morning on the way into work I was playing Wind & Water Puzzle Battles on my GP2X Caanoo. Last week it was easy, this week it's hardcore due to difficulty progression. It has pixel graphics, so it could be called "retro", but at the same time it was made only a few years ago. So it's modern. It's a puzzle game, so it can be casual, but the varying difficulty levels can make for some very hardcore gameplay. So it's a retro modern casual hardcore mainstream puzzle game. :P
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Or just call it "hipster shit" and join the Internet hate machine :D
btw, how does Wind & Water compare to Columns or Lumines (my favorite puzzles)?
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I'd say W&W has a lot more variety than Columns. The three skill levels have their own unique combo rules and there are a ton of different ways to rack up points.
Doesn't really compare to Lumines, they're both very different games. Definitely check it out! The story mode is probably the best I've ever seen in a puzzle game. It's actually funny, lots of self aware humor. Also, they mix things up by adding in some micro-games like a racer, rhythm game and samurai sword game. It's free for PC and GP2X handhelds. The Dreamcast version is super cheap at redspotgames website (and no, I do not make commission off them).
http://www.wind-water.net/ (http://www.wind-water.net/)
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Oh, man, I really wanted to say one thing and I completely forgot...
Here it is: Despite the fact that he does have one or two valid points, the one thing that offends me personally is the implication that gamers in the Genesis/NES/SNES years apparentely had no standards whatsoever.
It's also a rather unfair comparison when you consider that developers back then didn't have the same technology that we have today.
But the irony is that it's because of those earlier games that we now have the game market that we have today filled with gorgeous graphics, real soundtracks and mainstream appeal.
But no, unfortunately, the general gaming population has no idea, no concept of what happened before all of this and how it got to this point.
That's why, at least for me, I look at these older games not with just with nostalgia but with a sense of reverence.
You can look up at any major north-american video game news outlet, they act like nothing exited before, sadly, the Xbox.
As far as licensed games go, I don't think anything changed. They still do what everyone has done since the beggining, imitate the gameplay style of other existing games and usually fail in doing so.
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Funny thing:
Retro: Hardcore simple games brah!
New games: Complex awesome thinking games are hardcore, simple games are for mainstream. Suck your Guitar Hero and Peggle!
Who they change.
lol, nothing ever really changed. Gaming has always had a mainstream/casual side, ever since Atari first found success with Pong in a bar in 1975.
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Jim is full of shit, this guy paints everything with a wide brush, he also once proclaimed that essentially PC gamers were pirates. That's right, that is why I just made a thread about wanting TOTD and Billy Hatcher on Steam, you know so I could then take the pleasure in avoiding the purchase altogether and just going with the torrent!
Anyways, I will tell you this about retro gaming. It isn't nostalgia, it was better, I have introduced people to Genesis games, people who have never played games from that era and they appreciate them. In particular one friend who had never played games until about a year or two ago and was an absolute Sony fanboy, I got him to buy a Genesis and a copy of Sonic 2, the oldest game he had played up until then was Daxter on PSP, and he now loves Genesis (and SEGA). The real big universal crowd pleaser on 'Cast is Powerstone for anybody looking for a good game to introduce DC with.
Furthermore, I am playing through Shining Force: Legacy of Great Intention right now, never played it before. Great game. Also, used to always say Shenmue 1/2 were possibly my favorite games of all time, then I was accused of being blinded by nostalgia. Replaying Shenmue right now, it's better than I remember, and most of the issues mentioned, like pacing or unskippable text? Enable area jump in options and game mode for in-game conversations. Not really valid complaints when developers left you options to fix said complaints :roll:
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I can understand that these days a game that costs 60 bucks you can kinda get your money's worth (even though, I hardly buy full priced games anymore, since the games I want almost always get marked down 3 months later), but like I said before I sorta hate it when journalists and bloggers get to the point where they think too much of themselves and their opinions and this is the Internet, there's nothing you can write about that someone, somewhere will get rubbed the wrong way.
But the older games and consoles, should at the very least get acknowledged, for what they were trying to achieve considering the limitations of the time.