SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: MadeManG74 on April 13, 2011, 04:58:05 am
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[youtube:ohtde44f]AveosG5Lm7s[/youtube:ohtde44f]
More vids here:
http://shoryuken.com/content/official-s ... age-4195/# (http://shoryuken.com/content/official-street-fighter-x-tekken-website-includes-footage-4195/#)
Not to be confused with Tekken x Street Fighter.
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How much longer until we get SEGA Vs. CAPCOM?
This looks cool and all (love the environments), but I care very little for Tekken. Back in the day, I remember it being the poster child for the PS2, so thus as a SEGA fanboy I had to hate it and only play Virtua Fighter 3tb and Power Stone.
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Tekken 3 is one of the greatest fighting games of all time.
It was amazing as the developers decided to kill or retire 75% of the roster from the original games and have the next generation take over which was composed of their children or apprentices and it worked amazingly.
Unfortunately Tekken 4 resurrected to many characters, and the narrative become confusing and stupid. At this point it is just stupid expecting a decent plot from Tekken, but Tekken 3 will always be amazing.
It did what Street Fighter 3 couldn't build a successful sequel with majority of the cast being new.
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^What about the actual gameplay?
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How big is the Tekken team? Or at least, does Namco-Bandai have more than one team that works on Tekken games? I mean they have Tekken 7, Tag Tournament 2, and Tekken X Street Fighter in development.
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@ MMg75 The gameplay was the best in the series, most found Tekken 4 to be a huge step down as it felt to Virtua Fighter inspired (realistic) so Tekken 5 was much closer to Tekken 3 in terms of gameplay but the plot had already gone to hell by then and you had another convoluted mess like the Street Fighter series down to the Ryu/Evil Ryu with Jin/Devil Jin!
@ Chaos: From what i've read the same team is working on all the gams, the thing is tech can be transferred all the work is going in one game will affect the other games.
Tag Tournament 2 is just Tekken 6 with bells and whistles (just like the original arcade version of Tag Tournament was an update of Tekken 3), TXSF will build on the work that is done for TT2.
Tekken 7 will be a new game with new character models and get a complete overall.
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I've never really been into Tekken that much, although I absolutely love Namco's other fighter Soul Calibur. I did play Tekken 3 a bit at boarding school one year and my favorite character to use was this cute little dinosaur with boxing gloves.
(http://http://www.tekkenforces.com/perso/tekken3/costumes/gon2.jpg)
Anywho, this new crossover is looking really interesting. I'm really curious to see how Tekken X Street Fighter will play because there is an almost no projectile attacks in Namco's fighters but quite a few in Street Fighter. It'll be interesting to see how they change it up and balance it out.
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I didn't really see what I was most hoping for in the trailer. Mainly, what the Tekken character movesets from a 3D fighter will look like in a 2D fighting model. The trailer's basically a Street Fighter IV clip with Tekken character models getting beat up.
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I do not like Tekken, but I remember enjoying Tekken 3 a lot back in the day, my favorite character was also Gon, like CosmicCastaway. I would be sure to pick this up if it got a release on PSN!
I appreciate the humor of the series, but sometimes it goes a bit far, like how they have whole joke characters based around farting and burping... Ehh, even Boogerman in Clay Fighter 63 1/3 was more serious than that.
Good example of Tekken humor I enjoy a lot:
[youtube:1abw4693]J1xHZPVOPaM[/youtube:1abw4693]
[youtube:1abw4693]CsY-_cJ4Bxs[/youtube:1abw4693]
So yeah, I am rambling a bit! Moving on...
Something that bugs me about Capcom with their fighting games is that they play it too safe with how they are designed now. I can understand how crazy the fanbase gets, but it bugs me how they barely seem to try, as SOUP pointed out, this looks exactly like Street Fighter IV. And with how they release stuff I cannot get excited. I am still waiting on buying SSFIV game because they keep adding stuff to it.
This is why I am more excited to see how Namco's Tekken X Street Fighter will turn out. We have no idea what that will even look like or how they would ever be able to accomplish so many long range attacks using an engine that has a history of being built completely against that.
I am sure SFXT will be fine, but it is bland, old hat. TXSF however could turn out like complete garbage, but at least it will be exciting to see how it all comes together.
I especially like how the two developers are not working with one another, or even sharing any assets. I would love if a Mario & Sonic platformer game was designed like this... Only the SEGA version would be made by AM2 or maybe AM4 or even AM3, not Sonic Team...
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^They haven't added anything to Super Street Fighter IV apart from Costumes and a free tournament mode DLC since launch though. Arcade Edition disc/DLC is coming later this year, but that's like a new game (Equivalent of SF3: Second Impact jumping to SF3: Third Strike).
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I meant the jump from Street Fighter IV to Super Street Fighter IV, mostly. I wanted to get every release of the game thus far but waited because they never seem to stop.
I think it is bullshit how they announced the arcade edition stuff literally right after 3D Edition was released, for example.
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Yeah it is bull shit, sucking consumers dry.
You don't get to use the extra costumes unless you buy them though even with the SSF4, in both games the alternate costumes are already on disk!
With SSF4 a trailer was made showing the alternate costumes, but that can be chalked to Capcom's false advertising.
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Well, I find the Arcade Edition DC reasonably priced at $15 so it's no big deal for me, but this probably should be the last update of Street Fighter IV.
I've been thinking though, where is Jin? Isn't he like the banner character of Tekken kinda like Akira is to Virtua Fighter or Ryu is to Street Fighter? I think it's odd he isn't among this first line-up of characters.
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I meant the jump from Street Fighter IV to Super Street Fighter IV, mostly. I wanted to get every release of the game thus far but waited because they never seem to stop.
I think it is bullshit how they announced the arcade edition stuff literally right after 3D Edition was released, for example.
In this case 'never seem to stop' means one retail game and one DLC package in the space of what, 3 years?
Not sure why you would be upset about AE announcements after the portable one comes out. They obviously didn't want to wait months into the 3DS release to update the handheld version to Arcade Edition. Plus it's main drag is the portability and the 3D, no real need to update to AE, it's hardly like SFIV on 3DS will become the standard for fighting games.
Yeah it is bull shit, sucking consumers dry.
You don't get to use the extra costumes unless you buy them though even with the SSF4, in both games the alternate costumes are already on disk!
With SSF4 a trailer was made showing the alternate costumes, but that can be chalked to Capcom's false advertising.
I think you are over-reacting. They have a right to charge for optional content that they've created. I know it's on the disc, but it's only costumes, not like it affects the gameplay in any way.
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DLC is fairly priced for the Arcade stuff. Its reasonable.. but its not reasonable that it wasn't included in the 3DS release.
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I've been thinking though, where is Jin? Isn't he like the banner character of Tekken kinda like Akira is to Virtua Fighter or Ryu is to Street Fighter? I think it's odd he isn't among this first line-up of characters.
Well Jin's mentioned by Kazuya in the cinematic trailer at least. Although he's pretty much going to be in Tekken X Street Fighter along with his Devil side as well as Evil Ryu from what the only artwork Namco showed for it implies.
I didn't really see what I was most hoping for in the trailer. Mainly, what the Tekken character movesets from a 3D fighter will look like in a 2D fighting model. The trailer's basically a Street Fighter IV clip with Tekken character models getting beat up.
I think this might be the trailer to watch for that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cdzWvVWRCI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cdzWvVWRCI)
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DLC is fairly priced for the Arcade stuff. Its reasonable.. but its not reasonable that it wasn't included in the 3DS release.
I really think that if they tried to include AE stuff on the 3DS release, they would have missed the launch window. And like I said, the 3DS version is a novelty, not the standard to fighting games so it doesn't really matter too much anyway.
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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a downloadable novelty. Who cares, just throw stuff together. The fans do not matter.
It is mostly bullshit that they revealed the DLC stuff literally RIGHT AFTER Street Fighter IV 3D came out. It has only been two weeks and we have a solid launch date for the better version.
Also, Super Marvel vs Capcom 3 was leaked. Try and defend that too, I guess.
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I've been thinking though, where is Jin? Isn't he like the banner character of Tekken kinda like Akira is to Virtua Fighter or Ryu is to Street Fighter? I think it's odd he isn't among this first line-up of characters.
Let's See.
He was the banner character.
Tekken had a very unique take on any fighting games i've ever played as the protagonist didn't enter the game till the third entry in the franchise.
However fans of the series, just like Sonic fans ruined the franchise for me and others when they demanded Kazuya be resurrected.
Since Kazuya has returned the series is a mess and at the moment it appears that Kazuya is the banner character once again.
Yeah it is bull shit, sucking consumers dry.
You don't get to use the extra costumes unless you buy them though even with the SSF4, in both games the alternate costumes are already on disk!
With SSF4 a trailer was made showing the alternate costumes, but that can be chalked to Capcom's false advertising.
I think you are over-reacting. They have a right to charge for optional content that they've created. I know it's on the disc, but it's only costumes, not like it affects the gameplay in any way.[/quote]
Alternate costumes are a staple point in 3D Fighters, why?
Because they are easy to make in 2D, you'd have to draw a seperate sprite in 3D you just cover the models with different clothes.
Dead or Alive had about half a dozen costumes for certain characters.
Soul Calibur has alternate costumes.
Tekken has alternate costumes.
Virtua Fighter has the most expansive customization tools known to fighters.
King of Fighters : Maximum Impact was a dud, a failure. But it had alternate costumes which were awesome.
I was so looking forward to alternate costumes for the classic characters, CAPCOM knew they were expected but they robbed us and held them at ransom!
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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a downloadable novelty. Who cares, just throw stuff together. The fans do not matter.
One, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they actually said when making that game, and Two; 3DS Street Fighter isn't called Street Fighter 5, it's Super Street Fighter 4: 3D, which is EXACTLY what you get.
If Sonic 4 had a retail alternative that was actually living up to the name then it wouldn't be so bad because the FANS would buy the 'proper' retail version. Kind of like how the FANS of Street Fighter will be playing Super Street Fighter IV/Arcade Edition on HD consoles with Arcade sticks rather than on a pissy handheld screen with an analogue nub. Over wi-fi.
It is mostly bullshit that they revealed the DLC stuff literally RIGHT AFTER Street Fighter IV 3D came out. It has only been two weeks and we have a solid launch date for the better version.
The better version that is on a completely different platform. I'm not sure what you are getting at. Would you complain about Sonic Colours DS not being the exact same game as Sonic Colours on Wii? Besides, Nintendo was backing Super Street on 3DS, and if Capcom delayed it and couldn't get it ready for launch there would be hell to pay.
Also, Super Marvel vs Capcom 3 was leaked. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Also, Virtua Fighter 5 R was released. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Also, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown was released. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Also, every fighting game ever made in the last 20 years (barring a few exceptions) followed this exact same pattern. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Alternate costumes are a staple point in 3D Fighters, why?
Because they are easy to make in 2D, you'd have to draw a seperate sprite in 3D you just cover the models with different clothes.
Dead or Alive had about half a dozen costumes for certain characters.
Soul Calibur has alternate costumes.
Tekken has alternate costumes.
Virtua Fighter has the most expansive customization tools known to fighters.
King of Fighters : Maximum Impact was a dud, a failure. But it had alternate costumes which were awesome.
I was so looking forward to alternate costumes for the classic characters, CAPCOM knew they were expected but they robbed us and held them at ransom!
This is quite possibly the single silliest thing I've ever read on these forums.
I'll attempt to answer this sensibly though:
I agree that alternate costumes in 3D are easy to make, but that doesn't mean they are integral to the game in any way. They are a fun side novelty/vanity piece that doesn't affect the game in any meaningful way whatsoever.
Capcom did not 'rob you and hold you to ransom' in any way. They never said that the alternate costumes would be free, if you expected that then that's YOUR error. I may as well complain that Sega 'robbed me and held me to ransom' because Sonic Unleashed had DLC levels and that some random fan out there might have 'expected the game to be longer'.
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Also, Virtua Fighter 5 R was released. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Also, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown was released. Try and defend that too, I guess.
Also, every fighting game ever made in the last 20 years (barring a few exceptions) followed this exact same pattern. Try and defend that too, I guess.
All of Capcom's retail releases are for full price, and when the prices are lowered for stuff like Super Street Fighter IV, it was not even by much. In comparison, Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution has literally a whole new games worth of content and was $20 at launch, like two years after Virtua Fighter 4. It even had new content not in the Japanese version.
None of those releases of Virtua Fighter 5 you mentioned have been released to consoles yet. I would defend Namco with how they treated Tekken 5 and 6, Soul Calibur IV/Shatered somethingorother before I would how Capcom treats their fighters and I think Namco's fighters are some of the worst established around.
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I'm almost certain that Super Street was not full price on launch, and Arcade Edition defnitely isn't going to be full price.
If Sega made Evo cheaper, then that is their option, and probably required because VF isn't nearly as popular as SF is. If you want to talk content/worth, then Super Street added in 10 Characters (that's like adding the entire cast of BlazBlue just about), new online features, major balance and system changes etc. It was well worth the asking price, and I don't see how anyone could disagree.
Arcade Edition only adds 4 characters, balance and online changes, but that's why it's also available as DLC if you already have Super Street...
As for VF5, my point still stands that Sega release updates and always have, just like EVERY fighting game does. They would have charged the arcade owners for those updates, and you can bet that they would charge us for it on home consoles too. I really don't see what the sticking point is with Street Fighter in this case...
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I'm going to be pissed if there is a Super Marvel vs. Capcom 3... if they do it, they best have a decent price DLC pack with all the extras. Second time I got screwed over by first purchase (see Street Fighter 4)
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Aren't SF updates a norm?
SF2 had a million updates.
SF3 had 2 updates, but 3rd Strike was a completely different game (Same Sprites, all new backgrounds and endings).
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I think Capcom has learned at this point to offer DLC as well as a physical release which is what they are doing with Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition. I'm sure they will do something similar if this rumor of a Super Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is indeed true.
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If they releases Super Street Fighter IV on DLC, it probably would have cost as much as the disc anyway...
There were 10 New Characters, new stages, new music, new online options, new balance changes etc etc... If they charged even $5 per character it would have blown out to be the price of the retail game anyway.
When you consider that 10 characters is like, the entire roster of some fighting games and teh considerable mechanics and balance changes and all the new online features, I don't see why it's not worthy of being a full game...
Aren't SF updates a norm?
SF2 had a million updates.
SF3 had 2 updates, but 3rd Strike was a completely different game (Same Sprites, all new backgrounds and endings).
Yes they are the norm, not just with Street Fighter but every fighting game.
Also, new endings and backgrounds are probably the least important aspects in updating a fighting game, but even so, Super Street IV had new background and endings too.
To say that backgrounds and endings make a fighting game completely different is a strange thing to say. That's like saying changing the background music in Call of Duty would make it a'Completely new game'.
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Background music and stages altogether is a big difference.
All these FPS games seem the same to me, it is the stage that makes them different but I am sure for FPS fans they can see a million more things so not a relevant example and very subjective.
Look it is almost a seperate game in the context of fighters
Street Fighter Alpha 1 - 3 (+ 3 updates) use the same sprites!
King of Fighters used the same sprites for a whole decade, all they offered were 4 new characters and new backgrounds.
Specifically in 2D games, adding backgrounds is just as hard as sprites cause the backgrounds were sprite based (I am not talking still pictures but with people like Ken's stage, the biggest problem with SF3 were the backgrounds where people were just standing still and not moving at all)
You are right though backgrounds don't make the game CVS2 is one of the best fighting games of all time and it has 5 backgrounds. I HATE THE GAME FOR THAT THOUGH CAUSE I GOT SICK OF THOSE BACKGROUNDS AFTER THE 1st YEAR OR 2. THEN I HAD TO ENDURE IT FOR ANOTHER 9 YEARS!!!!
I am also sure one of these days I'll restart playing CVS2, now that I've a PS3 all I need is another Dual Shock controller and we will be playing CVS2 again!!!!!
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Background and music make very little difference to me in terms of the big scheme of things. They affect the gameplay in no way whatsoever and in most cases the endings are short and terrible.
I do love a good background I must admit, but it's hardly a benchmark for a 'new game' when it comes to fighters.
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We are in subjective territory now.
As I pointed out if your getting a game purely for multiplayer where you are Ken and your brother is Ryu.
What do you do?
You go in versus mode, fight a million times with the same character that was available in the same sprites Alpha 1 - 3. With suttle changes in gameplay and major backdrop changes that is the only difference.
So in conclusion it may not matter much to you, but backgrounds was what made old games special. They fleshed out Dhalsim with his stage "Baghwan Murti in the center", Elephants on the sides, Red Carpet on the floor with Sanskrit scriptures.
Similarly China fleshed out Chun-Li, and Los Angeles harbor fleshed out Ken.
Would Theif Hawk, Fei Long, Cammy and Deejay been so memorable without the new stages that came with them? Not to my family dojo.
Maybe your dojo was all about gameplay, against black backgrounds but to us stages were everything and god damn it we miss individual stages so damn much!
But this is subjective let's end this with agreeing to disagree.
But we can't argue whether stages are significant or insignificant. :)
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Here is some more gameplay:
[youtube:3d5e19cg]eUP7EfNTBqc[/youtube:3d5e19cg]
There is one thing I've never figured out, is King's leopard head his actual face or is it just a mask?
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But this is subjective let's end this with agreeing to disagree.
But we can't argue whether stages are significant or insignificant. :)
I just think that if you are playing fighting games for story/backgrounds then you are really barking up the wrong tree.
I can certainly agree that a great background can make a game all the more memorable, just saying that I don't see how anyone would use that as a bench-mark for if a game is 'new' or not, especially since they have no bearing on the gameplay at all.
But you know what, i can see you don't really play fighters for the same reason I do, so lets just have some great background appreciation instead!
(http://http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/Neo-Geo/KingOfFighters%2796-Korea.png)
(http://http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/Neo-Geo/Garou-MarkOfTheWolves-PhilanthropyBelfry%28HotaruFutaba%29.png)
(http://http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/Neo-Geo/Garou-MarkOfTheWolves-KainRHeinlein.png)
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I tried not to reply.
Explain me all the KOF games or SF Alpha series, sure they add a few new characters and tweak the gameplay which is awesome to explore but don't we return to our favourite character eventually and all that is left our the new stages to enjoy?
I'll give you this, story unfortunately isn't important but it is still the unique feature that differentiates the last game from the next game.
I mean games have used the same sprites for almost a decade.
This time I'm done, I promise :).
EDIT: Clearly I didn't keep the promise, but I understood what you were saying.
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But you know what, i can see you don't really play fighters for the same reason I do, so lets just have some great background appreciation instead!
(http://http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/Neo-Geo/Garou-MarkOfTheWolves-PhilanthropyBelfry%28HotaruFutaba%29.png)
BREATH TAKING!!!!
To top it off these bells are moving and the pigeons are flying around every where and I can close my eyes and listen to the background music playing.
Garou: MOTW was an amazing game to play, but I have to say in terms of gameplay CVS2 was better (Played that game for 9 years).
While Garou had more background stages, a truly phenomenal fleshed out story line with main arcs, and sub plots that Kicks Tekken 3's ass.
Epic Music. It may be the best fighting game ever made, but your right if the backgrounds, music, and ending made the game I would be playing this game for 9 years straight.
But the thing is after a few months of playing CVS I would bounce to this game and I am pretty sure me and my brother will start hardcore rounds on this game after a 3 year break due to us playing PS2 more but I think it is time we return to this gem.
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The Bell tower music
[youtube:p5sxhjj4]YOXjgMg-QbQ[/youtube:p5sxhjj4]
The Actual intro
[youtube:p5sxhjj4]sWWYOw32wrA[/youtube:p5sxhjj4]
Man this game was so deep, I still don't have a proper history with SNK games and the Fatal Fury anime's don't help at all.
Why was Rock so worried about becoming a mother fucker?
He repeatedly had to say He isn't Oedipus, back then I didn't even know who Oedipus Rex was (Greek play by Sophacles a million years old).
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[youtube:27qgk4lf]8SC6jrmN2sU[/youtube:27qgk4lf]
TRIPPLE POST. I apologise.
But I am basically agreeing with you now, seeing things the way you do.
CVS2 has nothing but 50 characters or so and I've played that game more than any game in my life but I have no emotional attachement to it.
[youtube:27qgk4lf]8SC6jrmN2sU[/youtube:27qgk4lf]
FF:MOTW on the other hand was surrounded in gloom.
SNK had closed their doors, it was their farewell game on a console that was dead and abandoned. Poetic?
This game picked on the heels of dead parents, mentors (dead or retired). With all the in game characters introspectively questioning the reason of their life.
Each character had their own stage, story, dialogue, theme music and ending. It is definetly memorable I know all the 14 characters inside out. I don't care about half the roaster in SF4 cause they are shoe horned with little more then an intro and an ending but damn I loved playing that game. Played it for 3 years.
I see things your way man.
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Russian Bear Wrestling!
(http://http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Features/2010/08/Street%20Fighter%20Vs.%20Tekken/Finished/080310_streetfightertekken_zangiefkuma--article_image.jpg)
Pretty please Capcom?
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Glad to see we are on the same page cube! I would love to continue this MOTW lovefest and Fighting game talk, but we should do it in the 'Fight Club' thread, since this is mean to be about SF X T.
Cosmic, that is the best idea i've yet seen in regards to this game!