SEGAbits Forums

Off Topic => Everything Else => Topic started by: max_cady on January 04, 2012, 09:35:41 am

Title: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on January 04, 2012, 09:35:41 am
(http://i40.tinypic.com/72x75s.jpg)

I mean, Internet piracy which is basically, infrigment of copyrights. Hopefully we can tackle this issue in the most sincere form possible. I say sincere, because we can never be sure of how piracy on the Internet works and how big is it's overall impact, since there lacks proper statical data to support certain claims by both industry and actual civialian statistics.

Let's be honest, here, I'm sure all of us here at some point, have argued how video games, movies and so forth have become way too expensive and buying a 60USD game, only to feel cheated is a risk to big for your wallet.

So piracy seems like a viable optional for people who try before they buy, where you "try it" and actually buy the game or just play with it for 10 minutes and just throw away the disc. But even the ones who actively rebel against the industry as whole, they don't have the courage to bring up the fact that they download a ton of movies or games, because once they do it, they feel exposed, even on a message board. Guilt implies that even though they do it, they feel guilty about it.

But the crux of the matter remains, which is, once you start to get into that routine, you start to realize how little you actually care about the items themselves. You didn't pay anything for it, which means that it has absolutely no value to you.

On the flip side, the video game industry and movie industry are going out of their way to support nearly impractical methods.

But I want to get some impressions from y'all...
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Aki-at on January 04, 2012, 11:23:57 am
I would mostly wait for a game to hit the bargin bins before purchasing it if I felt the price was too high by using my minimum wage calculation ie Sonic Generations has 5 hours of gameplay therefore £6.08 (UK's minimum wage) x 5 = £30.40

But onto the matter of piracy myself;

I very much doubt many of them (Those who do mass piracy) would purchase a game or a film or whatever if they already pirate such a large amount of data. I'm more willing to bet they are simply cheapskates or short of any large amount of monetary that would allow them to enjoy such an extensive amount of entertainment. Perhaps a slight increase but I would doubt an overall increase that would help any particular industry much.

Generally I do not believe they would start buying goods, rather they would just move on and do something else with their times. Of course it does not stop it from being wrong, but I do not believe in the manner in which large companies act they are losing billions a year to piracy neither, I simply do not believe pirates would purchase the goods in such mass numbers otherwise.

But the crux of the matter remains, which is, once you start to get into that routine, you start to realize how little you actually care about the items themselves. You didn't pay anything for it, which means that it has absolutely no value to you.

I'm not sure I quite get this. Someone can take something for free and yet understand the value in it, just because I happen to pay a large amount of money for, say, a physical dumping of a dog does not attach any sort of value to it. Likewise just because I happen to receive an expensive item for free, or download a film, does not mean I do not understand the value of it. Of course feel free to elaborate further if you meant something else.

Also ninjas were always cooler. They have Joe Musashi, no contest.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Barry the Nomad on January 04, 2012, 02:36:39 pm
I don't pirate games, though I do download emulators and roms of old stuff from the 70's/80's/early 90's for use on my open source handheld.

I think video game rental services are great, though I don't use them myself. I like the concept. You have just about any game to choose from, and don't need to download it. Just pay a monthly fee.

I never ever pirate movies, because I love seeing stuff in the theater. If I like it enough to pirate it, I should just be going to see it.

However, I'll admit to downloading TV shows that I've missed or shows that have a long wait between tv and DVD. More often than not I end up buying the shows in complete series sets. I just hate the way modern TV is handled. Cable costs way too much, and offers up way too little. Stuff on HBO and Showtime may be great, but it's too expensive for the channels. Other options? Buy via iTunes or Zune, but then you've got these files that you've paid for but only watched once.

Ideally, there should be a system where you subscribe to the season and have the ability to watch each new episode on release and have the ability to watch it until the next week's show is released. You can go by the episode, in the chance that you dislike the show and want to cancel. Or you pay for a season at a lower cost. So you save money in the long run, but are roped in for the full season. Also, this package should include a rebate for the eventual DVD/blu-ray release. Like a $5 coupon. If this were a system, I'd gladly pay for a full season of, say, Californication or Curb Your Entusiasm if it meant I'd get each show for temporary viewing in HD, and could save a bit on the physical release down the road.

iTunes season pass is sort of like this, but it involves purchasing a full season in digital form, not simply renting them. Plus, these files are very restrictive. I'd have to go through a lot of illegal hoops to convert them so I could stream them from iTunes to my XBOX. So you pay for files that take up harddrive space and cannot be used where you really want to use them.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 04, 2012, 04:33:45 pm
In regards to piracy I'm a bit loose moral-wise.
 I used to be a full head on pirate. Warez till my neck since I was 7. At that age I had many contacts already with the local pirates (older kids with access to those hacking newsgroups and such). I pirated my PS1 and Dreamcast.
 When the Dreamcast died I felt so guilty that I sweared I'd never pirate again.
 
 Of course I did a bit anyway, but nowdays it goes like this:
 If a game is for a console not currently on stores, fuck it. I download the hell out of it. It's not like they would be making any money out of it. The exception: Sega games.
 Portable gaming, I was legit with the PSP for a long time. When the games became scarce last year I bought a PSPgo and it's hacked. I get all the games I want. Most of the ones I like aren't on the PSN.
 
 Developers aren't making any money out of old games. And even if they are, I don't feel a NES game is worth 5 euros, Nintendo. Cheap-ass companies wanna charge 5 bucks for a ROM no better than the ones I download for free?
 Sega was wise, the MegaDrive collection for example is incredible value. I bought that in a blink of an eye.
 
 To me it's all a matter of "is it worth the price?". If some old-ass game costs 40 euros, and I know for certain that I will NEVER pay that money for that game, I pirate it. Because if there was no piracy, I'd simply not buy it.
 There are games that I pirated until the price dropped. Then I bought them.
 
 As for movies/TV:
 It doesn't feel right paying for something that I can get on TV for free.
 If I enjoy How I Met Your Mother and have the means to record it from the TV to watch whenever I want for free, why on earth should I pay for a (digitally downloaded) season?
 Don't get me wrong, I'm the dude who spent 200 euros on Seinfeld DVDs. But I got some physical objects for what I payed. I could have also record it from TV, Sic Radical shows reruns every day.
 
 Movies....eh. When I really like one I go to the cinema.
 There are movies I downloaded that I thought were so good, I went to the cinema and watched 'em again.
 
 
 I would classify myself as a "try before buy" pirate.
 
 
 As for the impact on industry itself, I agree fully with Aki's thoughts. Companies are full of shit.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on January 05, 2012, 05:41:16 am
I'm not sure I quite get this. Someone can take something for free and yet understand the value in it, just because I happen to pay a large amount of money for, say, a physical dumping of a dog does not attach any sort of value to it. Likewise just because I happen to receive an expensive item for free, or download a film, does not mean I do not understand the value of it. Of course feel free to elaborate further if you meant something else.

My statement is a bit confusing because it's something that's not easy or simple to explain from one person to the next. But downloading something off the Internet is not the same as receiving a gift from someone. A gift is item that is purchased by someone who thinks(or rather assumes) that the person finds some value in the actual item. The other scenarios you mention are a little grey, to be honest.

To quote Shakespeare: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Regardless, the issue is that taking something without some sort of compensation is in itself an infrigment of property rights. But again this is something that two people simply cannot feel exactly the same way.

Let's say we both have a lemon tree in our own backwards and kids climb the fence to snatch one of them, we could either:

But regarless of what we feel about this morally, theft is a criminal offense in and of itself. But I also don't agree with the impractical method of suing 12-year olds over the Internet.

Now personally, what makes me not want to indulge that much in such a practice is that, hypothetically, I download a ton of movies (especially those that have never been released in Portugal) and convert them to DVD so I can watch them without the hassle of going to the movies or having to go to a DVD rental. I no longer enjoy wacthing them, because if I can aquire them so easily and without any consequence, it just becomes meningless.

But that's just me.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Aki-at on January 05, 2012, 07:52:38 am
My statement is a bit confusing because it's something that's not easy or simple to explain from one person to the next. But downloading something off the Internet is not the same as receiving a gift from someone. A gift is item that is purchased by someone who thinks(or rather assumes) that the person finds some value in the actual item. The other scenarios you mention are a little grey, to be honest.

I actually said free because I did not want to say steal actually haha.

But how about someone downloading a rom for free (Let us say, my favourite game in the series, Sonic the Hedgehog 2) compared to spending $60 (Let us say the worst, Silver the Hedgehog) I am sure more people would find value in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 compared to Silver. They will not now believe one is better than the other (Unless you happen to be Cube!) they just happened to gain one for free, rather than pay for it. I purchased MadWorld for full price, but I can point out games that I have played on emulator (Let us say, Monster World IV!) that I just find infinately more entertaining.

I will mention a recent example of a free film I watched. I saw Jackie Chan's Robin B Hood on Youtube a few months ago. Completely for free and it shot up to become one of my favourite Jackie Chan film, I was enjoying every minute I watched, but perhaps I should answer your next quote before continuing...

Now personally, what makes me not want to indulge that much in such a practice is that, hypothetically, I download a ton of movies (especially those that have never been released in Portugal) and convert them to DVD so I can watch them without the hassle of going to the movies or having to go to a DVD rental. I no longer enjoy wacthing them, because if I can aquire them so easily and without any consequence, it just becomes meningless.

But that's just me.

I see that you are trying to argue if you do not sacrifice anything, you find it hard to enjoy a product. I believe only a limited number of people are like this, infact, would it not be harder to apperciate something if you purchase it? It is under extra scrutiny because one would be hoping for value of money, whilst if you got it free, all that you would need to worry about is the time you spent with it.

Not that I am arguing that being a pirate is right, it is not.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 05, 2012, 08:37:15 am
I see that you are trying to argue if you do not sacrifice anything, you find it hard to enjoy a product. I believe only a limited number of people are like this, infact, would it not be harder to apperciate something if you purchase it? It is under extra scrutiny because one would be hoping for value of money, whilst if you got it free, all that you would need to worry about is the time you spent with it.

Not that I am arguing that being a pirate is right, it is not.

No.. I get what max is saying.
It's like spoiled kids. Imagine two kids. One asks for an Xbox and his father buys one. The other returns lost golf balls for 6 months to get the Xbox.
Whom will cherish his Xbox the most? Or at the very least understand it's value..


(and because of your "The Professor" title I'm reading your text in Alain Prost's voice)
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on January 05, 2012, 08:48:22 am
But how about someone downloading a rom for free (Let us say, my favourite game in the series, Sonic the Hedgehog 2) compared to spending $60 (Let us say the worst, Silver the Hedgehog) I am sure more people would find value in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 compared to Silver. They will not now believe one is better than the other (Unless you happen to be Cube!) they just happened to gain one for free, rather than pay for it. I purchased MadWorld for full price, but I can point out games that I have played on emulator (Let us say, Monster World IV!) that I just find infinately more entertaining.

I'm sure anybody will find more value in the classic Sonic 2 title than Sonic The Hedgehog 2006, that much is certain. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is widely available for purchase in just about every medium(XBLA, PSN, PC Digital Download,etc) for dirt cheap, whereas 60 USD for that game is a waste of money.

In this situation the issue is not so much about piracy, it's pure economics, when a bad product is released, customers have the power to punish the retailer and the developer by simply not buying the game.

I see that you are trying to argue if you do not sacrifice anything, you find it hard to enjoy a product. I believe only a limited number of people are like this, infact, would it not be harder to apperciate something if you purchase it? It is under extra scrutiny because one would be hoping for value of money, whilst if you got it free, all that you would need to worry about is the time you spent with it.

Making decisions on buying games and other items just seems to be common routine, though, I would be lying to myself if had I never I said I bought something only to regret it later(buyer's remorse), because, even though, it's was a nice purchase, it just wasn't something that I needed at that point.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Aki-at on January 05, 2012, 09:24:45 am
No.. I get what max is saying.
It's like spoiled kids. Imagine two kids. One asks for an Xbox and his father buys one. The other returns lost golf balls for 6 months to get the Xbox.
Whom will cherish his Xbox the most? Or at the very least understand it's value..

That is true. Spoiling yourself with goods may erode one's tastes and concept of value but there are exceptions. Take for example the fandom of any anime (And I must apologize for any incorrect generalization here) made up of pirates. You would find millions who love that particular hobby despite many downloading to watch the show.


(and because of your "The Professor" title I'm reading your text in Alain Prost's voice)


You should be reading in the voice of Arsene Wenger. I am disappoint : (

I'm sure anybody will find more value in the classic Sonic 2 title than Sonic The Hedgehog 2006, that much is certain. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is widely available for purchase in just about every medium(XBLA, PSN, PC Digital Download,etc) for dirt cheap, whereas 60 USD for that game is a waste of money.

In this situation the issue is not so much about piracy, it's pure economics, when a bad product is released, customers have the power to punish the retailer and the developer by simply not buying the game.

Perhaps its better to state a game I did download that was good, being Monster World IV, which I had for free. To me, that platformer is better than Sonic CD, for example. I paid full price for Sonic CD but I still found more value form Monster World IV.

Making decisions on buying games and other items just seems to be common routine, though, I would be lying to myself if had I never I said I bought something only to regret it later(buyer's remorse), because, even though, it's was a nice purchase, it just wasn't something that I needed at that point.

My point rather is if I had pirated Final Fantasy XIII, I would have probably be more forgiving since I lose only time, if I had bought it, I probably would have regretted it. That being said expanding on Crackdude's explaination, I can see how spoiling yourself may cause a devaluation of value, but I can only see it as further devalue on products that they would hate regardless. I mean, pirates do still value the stop they pirate, do they not?

Note: I have never played Final Fantasy XIII and in general hate the Final Fantasy series
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 05, 2012, 10:14:18 am
What is it with french people being called professors anyway? Do professors get all the girls in France?




By personal experience I have to add that I usually play a game longer if I paid for it.


Same thing happens with magazines. I can be at the airport lounge, grab a handful of car magazines (my favs) and take a quick glance at them. But if I buy a car magazine I read it so damn hard.


Might be something psychological going on, I'm not sure though.


I also think the anime example falls to the category of TV series. You don't have interaction with what's going on, and you usually buy the series DVD after watching it on TV or so.
I doubt there are any hardcore Sonic fans that have never bought Sonic games. On the other hand, 90% of Naruto fans simply watch over the web.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Aki-at on January 05, 2012, 02:37:59 pm
What is it with french people being called professors anyway? Do professors get all the girls in France?

Actually...

When Arsene Wenger arrived at Arsenal, the fans dubbed him the Professor because he wore ridiciously large circular glasses but it was the fact that he spoke French, German, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Japanese plus having degrees in both economics and engineering.

Basically he is super clever and wasted as a football manager.

(Not that I'm complaining!)

By personal experience I have to add that I usually play a game longer if I paid for it.

Same thing happens with magazines. I can be at the airport lounge, grab a handful of car magazines (my favs) and take a quick glance at them. But if I buy a car magazine I read it so damn hard.

Might be something psychological going on, I'm not sure though.

It makes sense. On the flipside to buyer's remorse, one feels entitled to ensure the money they have spent does not go to waste so tries to guage as much value out of the product. A recent example for me was when I ordered a coke mixed with curry, it was digusting and the worst drink I've ever had, but I kept at it because I did not want it to go to waste.

(Sadly, the drink won in the end and I lost, it broke me : ( )

I also think the anime example falls to the category of TV series. You don't have interaction with what's going on, and you usually buy the series DVD after watching it on TV or so.
I doubt there are any hardcore Sonic fans that have never bought Sonic games. On the other hand, 90% of Naruto fans simply watch over the web.

Can you expand further? What makes video entertainment different from video game entertainment? Who do people see it is acceptable to watch a program illegal but not video game?
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: MadeManG74 on January 05, 2012, 03:35:44 pm
coke mixed with curry

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 05, 2012, 05:36:01 pm
Actually...

When Arsene Wenger arrived at Arsenal, the fans dubbed him the Professor because he wore ridiciously large circular glasses but it was the fact that he spoke French, German, English, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Japanese plus having degrees in both economics and engineering.

Basically he is super clever and wasted as a football manager.

(Not that I'm complaining!)
I had no idea.. I do love the man. Arsenal's my favorite english side. Though 2005 is long gone and I've been a little disappointed lately..

Quote
coke mixed with curry
what.
Quote
Can you expand further? What makes video entertainment different from video game entertainment? Who do people see it is acceptable to watch a program illegal but not video game?
I'm not sure I understand your question.

But I think the anime and videogame markets are very distinct.
Anime generates money by TV revenue, mangas, merchandising. Videogames generate revenue by selling.
Whether I download Love Hina episodes or not is "irrelevant" since they will show on TV either way, and they will make their money anyway. And when I buy Love Hina sleeping pillows they'll get even more. (this example cause they were a success in Japan. yeah)

I'm not getting Crazy Taxi sleeping pillows.

Music gets money by buying albums/songs.
Games get money buy buying.. well.. games.
TV shows get money by showing on the telly, which they will either I download or not.

Maybe I'm dead wrong lol but this has been my way of thinking for a long time now.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on January 06, 2012, 04:41:57 am
Wow, I started a topic about piracy and it sorta envolved into an indepth theological discussion on personal value that each and every one of us and it goes to show that sentimental value is something that differs between individuals.

Of course, while there's sentimental value in one item, there's also a commercial value, however that one is dictated by the law of supply and demand.

And that's where video games come in. And property rights. As well, as profit.

You see, when a company produces a profit, which is the result of the amount of revenue earned minus all the expenses, it's a healhty indicator that consumers are finding value in a product and are willing to pay for it.

An excellent product translates into both profit to companies and increased value to it's customers, because the product is good.

But when it comes to piracy and bootlegging stuff, it's no easy task. It can't be resolved in the same manner as throwing someone off a train because he didn't pay for his ticket.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: SOUP on January 06, 2012, 09:59:42 am
My basic rule, is that if I can legitimately buy it, I will.

I never buy used movies, cds, or games.
I've emulated old games in the past, but with services like the Virtual Console, and PSN, that isn't really nessecary for the most part.
I really wish there were more legitimate ways to play Panzer Dragoon Saga and Snatcher though :(.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 06, 2012, 04:57:45 pm
I get most of my games used though. I doubt that gives 'em much money anyway..


Truth is most games are too damn expensive right off the bat.


Minimum wage here is 485euro (=617 USD). A new game is usually 70 euro (=89 USD)


That's almost 15% of our month's work for a fucking game.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: SOUP on January 07, 2012, 09:39:35 am
I get most of my games used though. I doubt that gives 'em much money anyway..


Truth is most games are too damn expensive right off the bat.


Minimum wage here is 485euro (=617 USD). A new game is usually 70 euro (=89 USD)


That's almost 15% of our month's work for a fucking game.

That's the main reason why I don't buy games until they drop down in price. PS3 and 360 games always start around the $60 mark here, but are pretty much guaranteed to go down to $19-$29 less than 8 months after release. It's just a matter of waiting a few months, and you're saving 50%-66% off the initial price.  This doesn't really apply to Nintendo, or a lot of DS games from Japanese publishers. Games from SEGA, Ubisoft, EA, Take2, Namco, and THQ usually drop down to $19, with games from Sony, Microsoft and Capcom dropping to at least $29.

Don't even get me started on anything realeased on Steam. 75% off sales are a pretty regular occurence there.

  ...Sony, Microsoft, and Capcom 30
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: crackdude on January 07, 2012, 01:47:47 pm
Within one year, games here drop down to the equivalent of 40 - 65 USDollars usually. That the launch price in the States.

Whenever I want to buy a game at launch I buy from some UK site. With UK prices plus shipping I still manage to save around 20 euros.

It's crazy. And the reason the PS1 and PS2 ruled here (as opposed to Sega's dominance in the 90's) was piracy alone. It is also the reason the Xbox 360 grew in Portugal as well.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: MadeManG74 on January 07, 2012, 04:16:47 pm
Some interesting food for thought on piracy:

The Witcher 2, a very hardcore centric title which was almost universally praised for being an outstanding PC exclusive, was launched without any DRM at all. This is what most people argue for when they talk about piracy, claiming that 'DRM punishes the consumer more than the pirate'. It was also sold for a universal price of $40 US, no matter what country you were in you paid that much when you downloaded it from GOG.com (great site btw).

In the time that the game sold 1 Million copies, it was estimated to have been illegally downloaded 4.5 million times at a conservative estimate. This is apparantly 'not bad'.

Quote
Polish developer CD Projekt claims that its Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings has been pirated more times since release than you might have expected. In a recent interview with PC Gamer, CEO Marcin Iwinski does some quick back-of-the-hand calculations according to what he saw on illegal downloading sites, and comes up with 4.5 million copies of the game obtained illegally. He also says, however, that "as of today we have sold over one million legal copies, so having only 4.5-5 illegal copies for each legal one would be not a bad ratio."

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/30/4-5-million-pirated-copies-of-witcher-2-out-there-according-to/


CD Projekt still doesn't believe in DRM, which I'm thankful for. I think DRM really does hurt the honest consumer more than the pirate (part of the reason I like GOG so much is that their games are 100% DRM free), and I hope that other companies follow suit.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Aki-at on January 07, 2012, 09:01:10 pm
I had no idea.. I do love the man. Arsenal's my favorite english side. Though 2005 is long gone and I've been a little disappointed lately..

I think that will last for sometime longer, Manchester City and Chelsea can just outspend everyone. But as long as we have guts too win its all I can ask for (Despite being technically worse, our team seems to have stronger resolve now since Wenger bought those five players on the transfer deadline day)

what.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/sm3lzs.jpg)

Do not worry, my hand gave the drink a very deserving THUMBS DOWN

(Just look at it! It's like some evil demon chef made that to poison me!)

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I was just asking how does anime fans who spoil themselves differ from game fans who spoil themselves (By both being pirates)

Music gets money by buying albums/songs.
Games get money buy buying.. well.. games.
TV shows get money by showing on the telly, which they will either I download or not.

Maybe I'm dead wrong lol but this has been my way of thinking for a long time now.

Kind of. If a show is popular enough, they might expand it into more seasons and all that. TV series do not just get their money from one run on telly, if a show proves to be a ratings hit, then they might extend it to more than one season. Notable examples of anime that I can think off my head are; Sonic X and Big O were big overseas and that is why a second series was commissioned.

Basically whilst they have paid for one season, I am sure the producers of the show usually hope it runs for more than one season, if everyone pirated it, it would not.

Wow, I started a topic about piracy and it sorta envolved into an indepth theological discussion on personal value that each and every one of us and it goes to show that sentimental value is something that differs between individuals.

Do not forget the semi-Arsene Wenger background information for Crackdude in there either!

Well I just wanted to understand your point better, but I think Crackdude explained it well enough for me.

Although I imagine we are all in the same book when it comes to pirating, being bad. However, how companies have gone about trying to rectify the problem has been idiotic.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: CrazyT on January 07, 2012, 09:02:45 pm
Gonna be totally honest here. Piracy has always taken place in our house ever since the dreamcast. I remember one day when my brother had ordered like 10 games (this was maybe a year after the dreamcast's launch when we allready had bought some games). Being young, it speaks for itself that I was simply enjoying the games and obviously thought it was cool I could experience all these games.

This was when cd-burners were still not so popular, same for downloading large files with the slow internet from back then. I think it took a year or 2 before we started burning our own downloaded games. We weren't the wealthiest family. Chances were small our parents would buy us games, and my brother occasionally had to suffer his wallet to get that one game he was dreaming about. Nonetheless, we still bought the games that were totally worth owning officially like PSO and shenmue 1 and 2.

The whole concept of being able to finally experience so many games for free was just totally exciting for us. Every new platform we would always try to find a way to get ourselves some free games. I remember the gamecube getting modded after a year, The Wii ended up getting modded too, the xbox360 and even the ps3, which is pretty rare to manage. We became quite the pirates looking back at it(argh matey), and honestly being able to mod a console in itself actually felt pretty satisfying. My oldest brother became very good at it and started to look more like a hobby for him. He liked the technical side of the modding so he enjoyed doing it just for the sake of it. He managed to mod the mega drive with a 50/60hz switch and make profit selling it. He managed to do the same with the saturn and make it read burn copies too(which is great when some games are mad expensive).

Getting the consoles was allready a big investment, but getting the games was pretty hard for us. I think AKI T allready pointed it out well. If we never knew about pirating, I don't think that would have made us "buy" more games, instead we would have just simply not have been able to play so many games. This became especially clear since late. We all have jobs now and earn some good money. We all buy our games regularly.

This is just my story however. I know plenty of people that pirate their games still even with loads of cash in their wallet, and I believe that community isn't as small as people think. Of course it requires some wisdom and skill to mod a console, but some people actually end up making it a service and make money out of modding for others. It is even legal for a shop to mod here in the Netherlands. And yes I think games suffer for it. PC being the most vulnerable of all the platforms has suffered alot from it. Getting less exclusive games and ports after months. Piracy is hard to go against because it's something that happens in private environments. It needs to be tackled differently.

I think the best platform that has proven itself against piracy is steam. Steam does a REALLY REALLY excellent job in tackling piracy. It's not just being able to download your game and play it, but next to that it adds an excellent services. Updates every now and then, a great messenger that can be brought up while playing, good prices and just the overall community experience with achievements etcetera. Playing games is fun, but everybody knows that it's even more fun when you can legitimately share your experiences with others.

This is where I see the future honestly. Official product's gotta offer more than the pirated ones to such a great degreem that it becomes worth money.

So yes, I have been guilty :(
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on March 02, 2012, 07:25:19 pm
OK, guys I want to sort of' bring back the topic and throw it in a slightly different direction.

Being away from my Xbox 360 for a while (loaned it to a friend who seriously wanted to play Red Dead Redemption) made me go back and try out a few games on the PC I've been missing out.

What does this have to do with piracy? Well, a lot. PC games have taken a massive dive when the 'net exploded and it's been only through digital download that there has been some stability... However, I feel that even though it's great to see PC Gaming get a second wind, it is nevertheless frustrating that the thing that helped it, paradoxically is also making me not want to play games on my PC.

F***ing DRM!

I've been playin' a couple of 'em over the past weeks and I had to stop. Sonic CD, for example, I bought it at Gamersgate.com and I had to install the STEAM app because it's the only way to play the game. Games for Windows is another app, a XBL-like authentication system that you use, even though you could've just typed in the CD-Key from the game.

It's not even remotely enjoyable to play a game when your hard drive is full of unnecessary clutter...

Plus, DRM security is so easy to compromise, why bother at all?
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: George on March 06, 2012, 03:40:10 am
I have about 500gb of downloaded data. Mostly because I have the space. I usually delete films. I download based on a few factors.

Want. If I like the actors/directors etc.

Price. What its priced

Availability What format? Released in America?

I don't go into a store and buy a season of a show for 50 dollars. EVER. Sorry, that is way too much, doesn't matter the run time. I usually buy flicks when they are reasonably priced. I probably buy more movies than most people that I know.

Not only that, studies show that pirates go most to movies and buy media. So, er, fuck 'em.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 08, 2012, 02:08:56 am
I agree with Max on DRM, it hurts the consumer more than the pirate in my opinion. I used to hate steam with a passion, but now I don't mind it too much, but it's still annoying to have to jump through hoops just to play a game you honestly bought.

I remember it taking about 5 hours to set up Empire Total War thanks to steam related bullshit forcing updates and veryfying things and not letting me install it anywhere but in Steam's directory etc.

That's why I like GOG.com, completely DRM free PC gaming.
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: Barry the Nomad on March 08, 2012, 08:04:37 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzzqFFKwOik[/youtube]

DRM is pretty shitty. I have some old iTunes music with DRM and there is a 5 machine limit. My old computer = 1, my new computer = 2, last job computer = 3, my iPod = 4, my old laptop = 5, my new laptop = exceeds limit!
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: max_cady on March 10, 2012, 04:04:03 pm
I had that problem too with DRM from downloadable MP3 sites. I got so frustrated that it's actually so much better for me to order the music CD online and then rip the music tracks so I can listen to 'em on my laptop or MP3 player hassle-free.

PC games in general, ever since the DRM situation arose and digital distribution is all but commonplace, it has thrived but the loss of physical media does bring some unconfortable side-effects along with it.

Let's just say that I just don't want a certain game anymore, you know what I mean? It's cool that you can rdownload it again whenever you want, but if you're not going to play it, it shouldn't be too troublesome to sell it to someone else...
Title: Re: OK, SEGAbits, let's sit down and talk about piracy...
Post by: George on March 10, 2012, 05:00:32 pm
This might sound like I'm a hipster, but give me a second.

Most of the bands that I like release records. Usually in limited editions, so I just go and buy one of those. They are limited pressing, they have big pictures and look cool on shelves. So I buy that, then I (if it doesn't come with a MP3 digital code) pirate the album for digital listening.