SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyT on May 25, 2012, 09:41:37 am
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Seems the game is allready finished
The message reads, "Finally, we break the bad news about Anarchy Reigns US/EU release date – Sega has decided to change the date to TBC. While our work on the game is finished, localized, and ready to go, as publisher, Sega gets to make the final decision as to when it is released. The Japanese release date, however, remains unchanged for July 5, 2012."
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/05/25/anarchy-reigns-delayed-in-the-west
Don't think it's a bad choice. Nobody really sells their game on july but I think it's a good risk if they... market it right (*sigh)
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Here's the thing, July and August are usually the slowest months, so Anarchy Reigns would have zero competition in that month.
Especially in July 2012 when there's only like a Wii title and a few 3DS titles coming out. The only other major console releases are the London Olympics and Namco's Inversion which I'm sure nobody knows it even exists...
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Seems the game is allready finished
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/05/25/anarchy-reigns-delayed-in-the-west
Don't think it's a bad choice. Nobody really sells their game on july but I think it's a good risk if they... market it right (*sigh)
I dont think marketing can save a game like this to be honest. Its the dictionary definition of niche appeal.
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Either way there are 3 new trailers out.
Max
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUZxCRuaTQ[/youtube]
Douglas
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oTLSp3dEB0[/youtube]
New Trailer
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKJ_HVmGjHY[/youtube]
My god Max looks sick! D: This game looks sick! My 360 needs this game... now.
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This is such a bad decision from SEGA West, after Sonic Generations (sandwiched between BF3 and MW3) and Binary Domain (released too close to ME3) they should already know that releasing their games at busy times of the year is not a good idea.
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Especially in July 2012 when there's only like a Wii title and a few 3DS titles coming out. The only other major console releases are the London Olympics and Namco's Inversion which I'm sure nobody knows it even exists...
And you know the funny thing? I'm sure nobody knows Anarchy Reign exists either...
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This is potentially great news. Could mean actual marketing is coming along to promote the game.
Could also mean that Sega West is fucking up the shit.
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It's so obvious to everyone else, but why is SEGA so clueless when it comes to their marketing? I've said this before, and I'll say it again. EVERY single game SEGA Of Japan or SEGA West develops, publishes, ports, or whatever, should have the FULL backing of all of their marketing resources. It's a shot in the foot every time a good game comes out, because they don't know how to push it.
Yeah, it's a niche game, but I'm sure that's how all genres of video games/movies/music/entertainment in general start out...with a cult following, then the masses come onto it. Good niche games aren't necessarily meant to stay niche.
Except if it's SEGA's.
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Wait are people actually expecting this game to be anything but a bomb even with marketing?
I see no hype, I see no interest from even most of Platinum's fan who know this is coming, I see nothing. Binary Domain and Sonic Generations are games that can be successful, this outside of a small cult following is going to be anything but successful. There just is nothing too appealing to a wide demograph.
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In a sense, it's true... This is a spiritual sucessor to Mad World, a game that did make some noise, at one point, due to being the first major M-rated title on the Wii, but on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 demographic, this type of single player action brawler is fairly common.
Here's a crazy thought, since Aliens: Colonial Marines has been pushed into Q1 2013, do you guys think... that they'll drop Anarchy Reigns in November along with Sega All-Stars Racing Transformed?
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I agree that the chances of this game doing well are slim, but I think that's only due to Sega's refusal to showcase it.
I asked this a while ago back on the front page but didn't get a response; what, exactly, makes this a "niche" title? It's a 4-player online fighting game.
It's not like we're talking about some strange 3DS crossover Stategy RPG or something....this game looks like it's just a really fun time. People like 4-player fighters (they brought Brawl by the millions) and this one has online play.....I dunno. Not really sure what makes this a niche title other than "it hasn't been marketed."
Maybe someone can explain it to me, because I dunno. =/
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It's far more than a four player online fighting game. It looks to be anywhere from 1 player to 16 player. Which is really the coolest selling point. If you like solo games, it seems to have a TON of characters that you can play a 1 player mode as for each one with different stories. Then you can play 2 player, if you like that classic one on one sort of setup. And from there its any sort of combination you can think of.
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I asked this a while ago back on the front page but didn't get a response; what, exactly, makes this a "niche" title? It's a 4-player online fighting game.
It is a brawler. Brawlers have not been mainstream since the 16 bit days.
Further more, it is not based on any particular form of fighting (Something wrestling and boxing games can enjoy) so just because it is a brawler, does not mean one can use the games I mentioned as a starting point. Nor is it a major fighting IP (IE Tekken, Street Fighter etc)
Finally the art style and characters... They are not appealing to the majority of gamers.
And Super Smash Bros. Brawl is a party game. A party game with Mario, Link and Samus, characters who have all appeared in games that did 2 million+ what does Anarchy Reign have? Rehashes of characters from a failed title on the Wii?
SEGA could market this with millions, it would still fail horribly.
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I asked this a while ago back on the front page but didn't get a response; what, exactly, makes this a "niche" title? It's a 4-player online fighting game.
Did you just answer your own question? Even 1 on 1 fighting games are in decline, hell even SF x Tekken bombed (the fact that it's the worst fighting game to be made in the last decade probably helped it fail, granted...).
It's not like we're talking about some strange 3DS crossover Stategy RPG or something....
this game looks like it's just a really fun time.
Unfortunately, fun has little to nothing to do with popularity.
People like 4-player fighters (they brought Brawl by the millions) and this one has online play.....I dunno. Not really sure what makes this a niche title other than "it hasn't been marketed."
As Aki said, people don't like 4 player fighters, they like Mario and Friends Party GameTM.
I think that you are severly over-estimating the open-mindedness of today's market. Big franchises are getting bigger (or at least, shrinking less fast) and everything else is just about in the toilet. This sort of concept would have worked infinitely better as an XBLA game I think.
What really makes me feel sad is that they seem to be putting so much emphasis on multiplayer, and you just know that the servers are going to be a graveyard within a month.
On a purely personal perspective, I don't know how to feel about this game. First of all the graphics look bad. This might be because it's catered to big online arenas though. Secondly, I find the aesthetics nowhere near as nice or interesting as their previous games. The gameplay has moments of looking really good and really strange. I'll need to play a demo to see what I think of it. As I said before though, the biggest issue I can see is the focus on online play, and it'll probably be dead within the month. I'll probably end up getting it, just in the hope that at least the single player will be fun, but i really don't know...
I see no hype, I see no interest from even most of Platinum's fan who know this is coming, I see nothing
The game does have somewhat of a following over at shoryuken.com, so that's something I guess.
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Street Fighter X Tekken still sold over 1 million, FYI...it may not have met expectations but I'm sure Sega would be more than thrilled with the number.
Fighters aren't exactly on a decline...Street Fighter 4, MK9, MVC3, etc. all sold incredibly huge amounts of copies. I think if anything fighters went on an increase this gen, but Tekken is not big and few cared to see it mixed with Street Fighter...negative publicity (on-disc DLC) didn't help. Again, though, I need to emphasize...game sold over a million.
My point is this.....I don't think this game's nearly as niche as you guys are making it out to be. Had Capcom published this I'm sure it could have been a moderate success. The characters are unappealing? I dunno, they don't look that much different than the characters I see in any other fighter....all fighting games have over-the-top characters.
I think that you are severly over-estimating the open-mindedness of today's market. Big franchises are getting bigger (or at least, shrinking less fast) and everything else is just about in the toilet.
Hm...you make it sound like no games outside of big franchises should be released going forward.
I mean, I don't want to imply that the industry's in incredible shape at the moment but even I'll say that's a pretty bleak view...
I think the fighter fanbase is rather open-minded......I'm sure they'd be interested in trying this. Hell games like King of Fighters XIII seem to even have an audience. It's a traditionally hardcore genre.
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Street Fighter X Tekken still sold over 1 million, FYI...it may not have met expectations but I'm sure Sega would be more than thrilled with the number.
Fighters aren't exactly on a decline...Street Fighter 4, MK9, MVC3, etc. all sold incredibly huge amounts of copies. I think if anything fighters went on an increase this gen, but Tekken is not big and few cared to see it mixed with Street Fighter...negative publicity (on-disc DLC) didn't help. Again, though, I need to emphasize...game sold over a million.
I'm actually surprised that SFxT sold that much, so I'll concede that. It is a crossover of two of the biggest fighting games around though, so it should do well. I guess I remembered hearing that it fell short of expectations but didn't remember the reasoning.
I do think fighters are on a decline though, there was a list of figures on SRK forums a while back that showed this clearly. Part of it is the usual decline per iteration (SF4, SSF4, SSF4:AE etc each had lower and lower sales for example), but I do think it's reached the peak.
My point is this.....I don't think this game's nearly as niche as you guys are making it out to be. Had Capcom published this I'm sure it could have been a moderate success. The characters are unappealing? I dunno, they don't look that much different than the characters I see in any other fighter....all fighting games have over-the-top characters.
It's interesting you say that Capcom would do better with this game. What makes you say that? Genuine question here, because I can't think of many titles Capcom have published recently that haven't been 'safe' and have been a success. Asura's Wrath wasn't a big success for the company for example. It will be interesting to see how Dragon's Dogma performs though.
I also notice you compare this to fighting games. Can you think of any fighting game recently that hasn't been a well-known franchise that has been a success? Skullgirls sold about 50,000 copies, and that's a $20 XBLA/PSN title.
AR also isn't a traditional fighting game, it's something very different and new. Ultimately it's going to be unfamiliar to everyone, another reason why I think it's going to be a hard sell no matter how much money Sega throws at commercials for it.
Hm...you make it sound like no games outside of big franchises should be released going forward.
I mean, I don't want to imply that the industry's in incredible shape at the moment but even I'll say that's a pretty bleak view...
I'm saying that the industry is in a massive state of decline and publishers need to react accordingly. You can see Sega making the right choice by cutting new releases to 'safe' titles and limiting the rest to digital content. Anarchy Reigns would have been cut from the release schedule if they'd implemented this plan earlier I think. Either that, or it would have taken the concept and made it an XBLA/PSN title or something maybe.
I think the fighter fanbase is rather open-minded......I'm sure they'd be interested in trying this. Hell games like King of Fighters XIII seem to even have an audience. It's a traditionally hardcore genre.
The fighter fanbase can be varied, just like any fanbase. There are people who will love this and others who don't pay it any mind. Like I said, there seems to be a bit of a following on SRK.com forums for this title though.
I'm really surprised you said 'Even' KOF13 has a following though, KOF13 is pretty much everything the Fighting game community loves. It's probably considered to be the best 2D Fighting game since SF3 Third Strike.
Maybe I am being pessimistic about new releases, but I think it's mostly justified with the way things are going.
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Street Fighter X Tekken still sold over 1 million, FYI...it may not have met expectations but I'm sure Sega would be more than thrilled with the number.
If Yakuza 5 did that number, I'm sure SEGA would be over the moon.
If Sonic Racing 2 did that number, it would be a massive let down and a big blow to their finances, a complete disaster. Depends on the franchise. Combining a series that did 4 million+ and one that did 2 million yet is struggling to stay in charts is not a good number at all.
I'm actually surprised that SFxT sold that much, so I'll concede that. It is a crossover of two of the biggest fighting games around though, so it should do well. I guess I remembered hearing that it fell short of expectations but didn't remember the reasoning.
Capcom expected it to sell 2 million. Unlike Street Fighter 4 (Adding all versions together, did something like 6 million) it will not be a success that they would be hoping for.
Fighters aren't exactly on a decline...Street Fighter 4, MK9, MVC3, etc. all sold incredibly huge amounts of copies. I think if anything fighters went on an increase this gen, but Tekken is not big and few cared to see it mixed with Street Fighter...negative publicity (on-disc DLC) didn't help. Again, though, I need to emphasize...game sold over a million.
For every Street Fighter, we have Virtua Fighter, for everyone Marvel vs Capcom 3 (And let's remember, this is combining MARVEL with CAPCOM) there is a King of Fighter, for every MK9 there is a Soul Caliber.
My point is this.....I don't think this game's nearly as niche as you guys are making it out to be. Had Capcom published this I'm sure it could have been a moderate success. The characters are unappealing? I dunno, they don't look that much different than the characters I see in any other fighter....all fighting games have over-the-top characters.
Capcom... You mean the guys who failed to market Okami and God Hand? If they thought PG had a future they would have kept them around, they saw no rewards so they washed their hands of them.
I think the fighter fanbase is rather open-minded......I'm sure they'd be interested in trying this. Hell games like King of Fighters XIII seem to even have an audience. It's a traditionally hardcore genre.
You're talking about a community that wants Virtua Fighter to fail because it's Tekken's rival, or Street Fighter to fail because it's not made by Namco. The hardcore base is very close minded.
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It's interesting you say that Capcom would do better with this game. What makes you say that? Genuine question here, because I can't think of many titles Capcom have published recently that haven't been 'safe' and have been a success. Asura's Wrath wasn't a big success for the company for example. It will be interesting to see how Dragon's Dogma performs though.
Capcom found moderate success (and a decently-sized cult following) with the Power Stone series back in the day, games that are pretty similar to this one in theory. Multiplayer fighter games are unusual yeah, but unlike Binary Domain, for example, they're unique, and that can work in their favor; it's not often that one comes around, something which inspires a very different reaction to the "oh, another cover TPS" that Binary Domain received.
Not saying that the game would be a guaranteed hit but I just don't see what makes it so un-marketable. PlatinumGames does have a built-in fanbase, as well.
So far Sega's done nothing but show 30-second clips of characters with almost no context or no idea what the single-player will be like, or even how the multiplayer would work. Doing these things would be a good start...
Skullgirls sold about 50,000 copies, and that's a $20 XBLA/PSN title.
The digital market is a lot smaller than the retail market at this point....you'll rarely see digital games pull in retail-sized numbers. Yet.
I'm saying that the industry is in a massive state of decline and publishers need to react accordingly.
But the time has passed....game's done, and it's on a disc. Why bump the game into a busier time of year when it may very well do its best in the summer with no competition?
If Yakuza 5 did that number, I'm sure SEGA would be over the moon.
If Sonic Racing 2 did that number, it would be a massive let down and a big blow to their finances, a complete disaster. Depends on the franchise. Combining a series that did 4 million+ and one that did 2 million yet is struggling to stay in charts is not a good number at all.
It sort of goes with what I've been discussing with you over twitter, lol..........it's a sad day in the industry when selling over a million is bad in any capacity. Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast sold something like 1.2 million and it was considered a major success for Sega. And that was their premiere franchise. Times are different now, unfortunately. This is true.
I doubt Anarchy Reigns is expected to sell 1 million, though. If they have modest expectations for it (and it doesn't look like it was ridiculously expensive to produce) I think it can meet them with the appropriate marketing.
Capcom... You mean the guys who failed to market Okami and God Hand? If they thought PG had a future they would have kept them around, they saw no rewards so they washed their hands of them.
To be fair, you're talking about single-player action/adventure games. Anarchy Reigns is something far simpler and pick-up-and-play.
You're talking about a community that wants Virtua Fighter to fail because it's Tekken's rival, or Street Fighter to fail because it's not made by Namco.
haha in certain respects, yeah, maybe. Thankfully though Anarchy Reigns doesn't really compete with (or rival) anything.
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It sort of goes with what I've been discussing with you over twitter, lol..........it's a sad day in the industry when selling over a million is bad in any capacity. Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast sold something like 1.2 million and it was considered a major success for Sega. And that was their premiere franchise. Times are different now, unfortunately. This is true.
It depends on the series and the platforms. Sonic Adventure released on a single failed console, Sonic Racing 2 will be releasing on 4 formats. This is nothing with it being what the industry has become. Even in the early 90s, if Mario did just a million, or if Final Fantasy VII did only a million, it would have been terrible for their respective publisher.
The original Sonic Racing did over 2 million, if Sonic Racing 2 does half of that, it would naturally be seen as a failure.
I doubt Anarchy Reigns is expected to sell 1 million, though. If they have modest expectations for it (and it doesn't look like it was ridiculously expensive to produce) I think it can meet them with the appropriate marketing.
They are expecting it to sell 700k. Even with the right marketing, that is hard to meet.
To be fair, you're talking about single-player action/adventure games. Anarchy Reigns is something far simpler and pick-up-and-play.
As I said, if Capcom felt there was a future, they would have invested in them.
haha in certain respects, yeah, maybe. Thankfully though Anarchy Reigns doesn't really compete with (or rival) anything.
But it is not a 1 on 1 fighter like those games, so it is not like it's going to appeal to the fighting community much.
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You're talking about a community that wants Virtua Fighter to fail because it's Tekken's rival, or Street Fighter to fail because it's not made by Namco
Waaaat the hell are you talking about? This is so wrong it hurts. I'm not even sure if you are saying this to troll now.
The fighting game community has been getting behind VF5 to a huge degree, they've been working with Sega to get the games at major tournaments and gatherings all year and promoting it heavily on streams and hyping it up. There's more buzz for Virtua Fighter 5 on Shoryuken.com (A forum mostly dedicated to Capcom fighters) than there is on Segabits.
I may as well say "Sega fans hope that Vanquish fails because it's competition for Bayonetta. They would rather Platinum spends time on Bayonetta 2 than Vanquish. They also wanted Binary Domain to fail hard because it's competition for Dead Souls."
TECH NOTE: Why does the insert quote button not work?
INITIATE MANUAL QUOTING PROCEDURE
Capcom found moderate success (and a decently-sized cult following) with the Power Stone series back in the day, games that are pretty similar to this one in theory.
Yes, as you said 'back in the day'. More than a decade ago. It's hardly relevant to the Capcom of today.
Not saying that the game would be a guaranteed hit but I just don't see what makes it so un-marketable. PlatinumGames does have a built-in fanbase, as well.
So far Sega's done nothing but show 30-second clips of characters with almost no context or no idea what the single-player will be like, or even how the multiplayer would work. Doing these things would be a good start...
Platinum games has a built in fanbase, yes. It's so small it would be a drop in the ocean though. To go back to your fighting game analogy, KOF '98 is probably the most played fighting game in the world, but KOFXIII isn't the best selling fighter of all time, or even of this generation.
Although lets get this clear, what exactly do you want from Sega in this case? What do you want them to do to 'market' this game? Is there a recent example that you can point to and say 'Sega should do that'? I'm genuinely curious to see what you want from them.
But the time has passed....game's done, and it's on a disc. Why bump the game into a busier time of year when it may very well do its best in the summer with no competition?
I was responding to your comment about my general outlook, not this game in particular. Although if you want to talk about release dates, seeing as this is a hardcore title and appealing to a niche audience, then wouldn't the customers be different to the majority who are buying the big releases anyway?
To be fair, you're talking about single-player action/adventure games. Anarchy Reigns is something far simpler and pick-up-and-play.
I disagree, have you seen the amount of weapons, moves, features and other shit this game has? It looks pretty complex to me. Not to mention theres like a billion hundred multiplayer modes to learn.
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Fighting games in general have been a "niche" market for a long time. Though, it still has some respectable numbers, 'cause there are titles like Arcana Heart 3, the Blazblue series and Battle Fantasia out there that are being sold, so there is an audience for a game like Anarchy Reigns.
Sorry for going off-topic for a sec but Street Fighter x Tekken might have sold much better had they not shot themselves in the foot with on-disc DLC.
I don't see SEGA pulling a d***ish move like that with Anarchy Reigns.
Hopefully they'll say something at E3 that will put as at ease.
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It depends on the series and the platforms. Sonic Adventure released on a single failed console, Sonic Racing 2 will be releasing on 4 formats. This is nothing with it being what the industry has become. Even in the early 90s, if Mario did just a million, or if Final Fantasy VII did only a million, it would have been terrible for their respective publisher.
The original Sonic Racing did over 2 million, if Sonic Racing 2 does half of that, it would naturally be seen as a failure.
Totally understandable, yeah. But I'm not denying that, but the point I am trying to make is that the move to HD has done a hell of a lot to cripple studios with smaller budgets. Yes, there are options AVAILABLE to them, but game development is becoming too expensive. And you can read countless bits of testimony from developers and publishers who can confirm that.
As I said, if Capcom felt there was a future, they would have invested in them.
PlatinumGames makes games very different to the ones that Clover made, though. For the most part.
But it is not a 1 on 1 fighter like those games, so it is not like it's going to appeal to the fighting community much.
Who says the fighting game community only likes 1 on 1 fighters?
Yes, as you said 'back in the day'. More than a decade ago. It's hardly relevant to the Capcom of today.
My point is that such games do have the potential to sell. Especially with nostalgia being such a big thing in the industry today.
Although lets get this clear, what exactly do you want from Sega in this case? What do you want them to do to 'market' this game? Is there a recent example that you can point to and say 'Sega should do that'? I'm genuinely curious to see what you want from them.
What Sega should be doing is showing gamers exactly what this game is about. Showing the "substance" of the experience. Not just each character with mini-trailers; what do people have to look forward to with this game? I feel like Famitsu gets a lot of great previews....translate the info from those previews into video form. I don't think people in the West even know that the game features a single-player mode.
seeing as this is a hardcore title and appealing to a niche audience, then wouldn't the customers be different to the majority who are buying the big releases anyway?
How is it that a company like Atlus can manage to sell "niche games" almost exclusively and make enough money to survive as a company? Then they get occasional mainstream hits like Demon's Souls. Not every game has to be super mainstream to profit. There are hardcore gamers out there. There are ways to target them.
I disagree, have you seen the amount of weapons, moves, features and other shit this game has? It looks pretty complex to me. Not to mention theres like a billion hundred multiplayer modes to learn.
haha not really. Sega's trailers haven't done much to demonstrate these.
Though, it still has some respectable numbers, 'cause there are titles like Arcana Heart 3, the Blazblue series and Battle Fantasia out there that are being sold, so there is an audience for a game like Anarchy Reigns.
Exactly, this. How is it that smaller publishers can put out games like these, yet a bit corporation like Sega somehow can't put this out?
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Totally understandable, yeah. But I'm not denying that, but the point I am trying to make is that the move to HD has done a hell of a lot to cripple studios with smaller budgets. Yes, there are options AVAILABLE to them, but game development is becoming too expensive. And you can read countless bits of testimony from developers and publishers who can confirm that.
So you can see why we think AR is a bad idea because it surely has high dev costs?
PlatinumGames makes games very different to the ones that Clover made, though. For the most part.
How so? Also God Hand is amazing and seems pretty in line with their current games.
Who says the fighting game community only likes 1 on 1 fighters?
Again, we can't group the fighting game community into one mindset. Like I said, some will like it (and some are already really excited) and others won't be interested. But because it's not a traditional fighter, we can't really say they'll definitely flock to it since it's not a 'fighting game' in the traditional sense.
My point is that such games do have the potential to sell. Especially with nostalgia being such a big thing in the industry today.
How much did the Power Stone games sell anyway? I think we should establish that before saying they were a success.
What Sega should be doing is showing gamers exactly what this game is about. Showing the "substance" of the experience. Not just each character with mini-trailers; what do people have to look forward to with this game? I feel like Famitsu gets a lot of great previews....translate the info from those previews into video form. I don't think people in the West even know that the game features a single-player mode.
Like Binary Domain? You were saying that they marketed that horribly too though. Also that trailer in the OP shows that the game has a single-player mode with cutscenes and whatnot, so is that what you were after?
Thinking on it though, the trailers have been pretty garbage. It might be because I'm not that excited about the game in general or because it's not out for a while so I was expecting them to get better, but yeah, I can agree they were a bit dull so far.
How is it that a company like Atlus can manage to sell "niche games" almost exclusively and make enough money to survive as a company? Then they get occasional mainstream hits like Demon's Souls. Not every game has to be super mainstream to profit. There are hardcore gamers out there. There are ways to target them.
As someone said before, Atlus is a boutique publisher who specialise in these games, Sega isn't. Sega might turn a profit on this game, but was it worth their time and expenditure to do it?
And how should Sega target those hardcore gamers? You mentioned trailers earlier, which is what they are doing and have been doing.
haha not really. Sega's trailers haven't done much to demonstrate these.
The Multi-Player modes? Again, the recent one showed a bunch of them, and there seems to be a lot (teams, cage matches, deathball etc). When a game is going to have a limited install base already, I wonder if it's a bad idea to split the players into half a dozen different gametypes (or a dozen if there's going to be Ranked/Unranked matchlists too).
If you meant the game being complex, seeing the characters fighting, carrying firearms, playing deathball and using stealth and other powerups... it looks like there's going to be a lot to take in when you play this game.
Exactly, this. How is it that smaller publishers can put out games like these, yet a bit corporation like Sega somehow can't put this out?
Again, what were the sales like for those games? Would those numbers be considered 'good' for AR? If they were so good, then what do you think they did on top of what Sega is doing with Anarchy Reigns that makes Atlus a good marketer and Sega a bad one.
I will say this though, I would LOVE to see Sega trot this game out to Tournaments and conventions and put up some prize money like they did with VF5FS. That gets a lot of good press and Word of mouth amongst the target audiences. It would also just be good to see some actual gameplay from real players to see how it all works.
Anyway, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive towards you or anything. I dont' mean to be, but I am playing devil's avocado a bit here. If it helps, imagine I'm saying all this in a civilised way while drinking tea.
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The fighting game community has been getting behind VF5 to a huge degree, they've been working with Sega to get the games at major tournaments and gatherings all year and promoting it heavily on streams and hyping it up. There's more buzz for Virtua Fighter 5 on Shoryuken.com (A forum mostly dedicated to Capcom fighters) than there is on Segabits.
I may as well say "Sega fans hope that Vanquish fails because it's competition for Bayonetta. They would rather Platinum spends time on Bayonetta 2 than Vanquish. They also wanted Binary Domain to fail hard because it's competition for Dead Souls."
Not trolling, just saying it from what I know of various Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive and Tekken fans. You should know as well as I do that there is a large group who are irrational fanboys (Or fanboys of said particular series) that they would opt against any form of rival games.
And on your last point, sadly I've seen plenty of disgruntled Virtua Fighter fans who wished SEGA would "dump that whore Bayonetta" and focus on a Virtua Fighter 5 R release... And plenty of Shenmue fans who hate how SEGA keeps releasing Yakuza. Heck Binary Domain was hoped to be a failure by some SEGA fans too because it was just another shooter and too bland. I have seen people go as far as to hope SEGA goes bankrupt for releasing PG's games instead of Virtua Fighter. If you even go to Sonic Stadium and SonicRetro... Man the contempt people there have for SEGA's history when Sonic Racing 2 was announced.
Perhaps the fighting community has changed, but there certainly was a strong stigma against VF by Tekken fans and vice versa with VF fans against Tekken.
TL:DR Don't mind me, I hate gamers, everyone of them, I'll go cry in my corner now.
Totally understandable, yeah. But I'm not denying that, but the point I am trying to make is that the move to HD has done a hell of a lot to cripple studios with smaller budgets. Yes, there are options AVAILABLE to them, but game development is becoming too expensive. And you can read countless bits of testimony from developers and publishers who can confirm that.
Of course budget has gone up, it is only natural. Back in the 90s it was impossible for two people by themselves to make a game to challenge Sonic or Mario, the gen prior to that, two people was all that was needed to make a game rival the best in the industry.
Is it sustainable? It depends on the publisher and developer. If a game must sell over a million to be a success for a big publisher? Seems fine by me. If a publisher is expecting 3 million to break even though? That is far too high.
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So you can see why we think AR is a bad idea because it surely has high dev costs?
Why do you say that? You commented yourself that the game's graphics "look bad" and I highly doubt they spent a lot of money on the voice acting. And either way, the game has already been paid for. Not releasing it in 2 out of the 3 major regions isn't going to help it make its money back.
How so? Also God Hand is amazing and seems pretty in line with their current games.
God Hand is why I said "for the most part." I actually haven't played it, but Platinum's games seem to be getting far better reception than that one did.
How much did the Power Stone games sell anyway? I think we should establish that before saying they were a success.
Evidently Power Stone did well enough to receive a sequel and then a remake on the PSP a few years ago. So I'm assuming it was a moderate success.
Like Binary Domain? You were saying that they marketed that horribly too though. Also that trailer in the OP shows that the game has a single-player mode with cutscenes and whatnot, so is that what you were after?
Nah not like Binary Domain; Binary Domain's marketing (another game I haven't played) focused mainly on (according to those on here who have played it) 1 or 2 areas in the game, areas that don't represent well what the game has to offer.
And how should Sega target those hardcore gamers? You mentioned trailers earlier, which is what they are doing and have been doing.
I wouldn't call little 30-second character clips (releasing from Japan, by the way, not Sega of America or Sega Europe, for the most part) "trailers." To even call them teasers is I think being generous.
If you meant the game being complex, seeing the characters fighting, carrying firearms, playing deathball and using stealth and other powerups... it looks like there's going to be a lot to take in when you play this game.
It seems to me like there will be something for everybody in there. ???
Anyway, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive towards you or anything. I dont' mean to be, but I am playing devil's avocado a bit here. If it helps, imagine I'm saying all this in a civilised way while drinking tea.
lol dude you don't sound aggressive at all. 8)
Again, what were the sales like for those games? Would those numbers be considered 'good' for AR? If they were so good, then what do you think they did on top of what Sega is doing with Anarchy Reigns that makes Atlus a good marketer and Sega a bad one.
Aki says that the game is expected to sell 700k (I think) worldwide....if it's released in Japan only, the chances of that happening are practically zero.
Is it sustainable? It depends on the publisher and developer. If a game must sell over a million to be a success for a big publisher? Seems fine by me. If a publisher is expecting 3 million to break even though? That is far too high.
I don't think that's fine, though....the industry is not big enough (and never will be,) for most games to sell over 1 million. 1 million is a lot of copies. Games that are required to go platinum to be successful should be far fewer in number than they have become. That's why we're seeing so many studios closing their doors, being bought out, or laying off staff. It's not sustainable. It takes lots of marketing dollars to create a million-seller.
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@-nSega54-: Definitely check out God Hand if you have a PS3 (it's up for download on the PSN). It's a little rough aroudnd the edges, but extremely fun. I'd probably play it on Easy though. It's about the same difficulty as Bayonetta on Medium that way.
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@-nSega54-: Definitely check out God Hand if you have a PS3 (it's up for download on the PSN). It's a little rough aroudnd the edges, but extremely fun. I'd probably play it on Easy though. It's about the same difficulty as Bayonetta on Medium that way.
I don't yet have a PS3....and if rumors about the PS4/720 coming soon are true, I might end up just holding out for the PS4. But if I ever do get the PS3 I'll be sure to check it out.
Just for the record, I am not saying that Anarchy Reigns has the potential to be a gigantic hit.....I'm just saying that I don't think it's nearly as niche as some of you guys seem to think. I think the game could be a moderate success if Sega actually starts promoting it with trailers are more than 30 second long character trailers.
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Fighters aren't exactly on a decline...Street Fighter 4, MK9, MVC3, etc. all sold incredibly huge amounts of copies. I think if anything fighters went on an increase this gen, but Tekken is not big and few cared to see it mixed with Street Fighter...negative publicity (on-disc DLC) didn't help. Again, though, I need to emphasize...game sold over a million.
Didn't Tekken 6 sell around 3.5 million copies?
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I just realised this game was meant to be out soon, yeah Sega really did drop the ball, all the vids until now (and even these recent ones) were garbage-tier.
Hopefully they delayed this game so that they can actually get some more awareness out there.
I also wonder how many people are just going to import this joint from Japan now rather than wait.
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The game to me look poor and I think its going to bomb big time and deep down SEGA know it . There's no sort of market for these sort of new IP fighters sadly.
Didn't Tekken 6 sell around 3.5 million copies
Its an established series that's been going for years , there is a diffrence and the likes of Super Smsh Bro have that big fan series to help it , this game doesn't
Definitely check out God Hand if you have a PS3
The game is wild fun and I loved it . Sadly it bombed and I expect the same to happen with this
Hopefully they delayed this game so that they can actually get some more awareness out there
This is SEGA here , I bet people still don't know about the like of Binary Domain or valkyria chronicles. SEGA recorded on pushing and promotion new IP is shocking this gen sadly :(
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I'm gonna import first so I can enjoy the online matches for as long as they last and then buy PAL region eventually if it does indeed come out, fuck the haters... One of the few interesting games in a long time next to HOTD4's PSN port last month (and Shinobi 3ds and Code of Princess).
Really Jet Set Radio, can't believe they are focusing their marketing on a re-release.
And everyone who says it looks garbage but did enjoy God Hand, your gonna miss out. Check the japanese Platinum account, seems a to be a pretty decent fighting system.
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Aki says that the game is expected to sell 700k (I think) worldwide....if it's released in Japan only, the chances of that happening are practically zero.
This was a good 6 months before SEGA's restructuring, I doubt Anarchy Reigns would have been comissioned now as it was back then.
I don't think that's fine, though....the industry is not big enough (and never will be,) for most games to sell over 1 million. 1 million is a lot of copies. Games that are required to go platinum to be successful should be far fewer in number than they have become. That's why we're seeing so many studios closing their doors, being bought out, or laying off staff. It's not sustainable. It takes lots of marketing dollars to create a million-seller.
I did not say most, I was talking about top tier games. Games like Bayonetta should be aiming for a million seller, games like 7th Dragon, Valkyria Chronicles etc should not need to get such a high figure. But top tier games, a million is a good target. It has always been the target for top tier games. A level games should go well over a million whilst B and C games should stick between the 200k - 500k range.
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I did not say most, I was talking about top tier games. Games like Bayonetta should be aiming for a million seller, games like 7th Dragon, Valkyria Chronicles etc should not need to get such a high figure. But top tier games, a million is a good target. It has always been the target for top tier games. A level games should go well over a million whilst B and C games should stick between the 200k - 500k range.
I think we're in agreement that 1 million+ is a desirable number for top tier games...but the point I'm making is that games shouldn't need 1 million+ to break even. I can understand setting goals and expectations to 1 million+ sales, but I don't think it's a good thing when selling over a million (to even see a profit) is a requirement for a surprising number of games being released this gen. That's what I have an issue with.
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Yo, nSega, I'm seein your opinions all over the forums and twitter. Why not write up an op-ed and post it on the front page. 8)
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There's been a "minor" update, so to speak, courtesy of Gameover.pt (http://gameover.sapo.pt/artigo/anarchy-reigns-adiado-na-europa).
According to the news, while the game will not be released on July 5th, it will still get a release within July.
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Interesting... if true. Fingers crossed!
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Yo, nSega, I'm seein your opinions all over the forums and twitter. Why not write up an op-ed and post it on the front page. 8)
lol I've wanted to post op ed pieces in the past for similar thoughts involving other games but I was told not to; that this was an area in which we had to tread carefully.
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How come he gets to post his rants on the front page, but when I suggested the VF5FS launch party coverage be put on the front page it was rejected? :(
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How come he gets to post his rants on the front page, but when I suggested the VF5FS launch party coverage be put on the front page it was rejected? :(
Wait, whaaa? I don't get to/have never asked post any "rants" on the front page.....
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Wait, whaaa? I don't get to/have never asked post any "rants" on the front page.....
Yo, nSega, I'm seein your opinions all over the forums and twitter. Why not write up an op-ed and post it on the front page. 8)
But seriously, I'm not having a dig at you, just having a whinge at Barry. :P
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lol yeah I s'pose.
But yeah, I mean, I've asked to post op/ed pieces in the past involving similar topics to this one and got them turned down by the rest of the staff, so, I dunno. :p
The idea of trying one for this didn't even occur to me, though I do appreciate Barry suggesting it.
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I think we're in agreement that 1 million+ is a desirable number for top tier games...but the point I'm making is that games shouldn't need 1 million+ to break even. I can understand setting goals and expectations to 1 million+ sales, but I don't think it's a good thing when selling over a million (to even see a profit) is a requirement for a surprising number of games being released this gen. That's what I have an issue with.
I do not see much of an issue with that though. If devs and publishers have such high ambitions then I can understand 1 million sales to break even. A game the scoop of GTA: SA would need a million even last generation so if a publisher/dev feels the need to have such a big budget to much their ambition, nothing wrong with that.
As I pointed out though, a lot of devs/publishers are not efficient with their money, something like Homefront surprisingly cost over $50 million to make yet most can tell its not a top tier game. It is wastage of resources like so that is why we have such large budgets.
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That's just one of many factors. There are plenty of developers who do not waste their resources who have difficulty profiting.
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They won't be showing off Anarchy Reigns at this year's E3 apparently.
I'm starting to think that they'll pull a Konami, like they did with Blades of Times, a sequel to a highly mediocre game (X-Blades) that was just sorta dumped unexpectadly during March 2012.
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Japanese demo is out today on PSN I believe, anyone getting it? I'll try to get it next month when my net kicks back into gear.
Also, has anyone considered the possibility that the game is just really, really bad and Sega is aware of this and trying to release it quietly without any fanfare? I don't want it to be true, but...
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Yes, there's that possibility...
But a lot of SEGA games are released below-the-radar anyway... This could make for a good tax write-off.
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I'm sure most SEGA games started off as "niche" titles at the first release, but they actually marketed some games before 2000. People could like this game, and that it's a different concept is not a good gauge as to how "niche" it is.
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That's just one of many factors. There are plenty of developers who do not waste their resources who have difficulty profiting.
To be frank a lot of developers ambitions has also hit quite lofty heights this generation too.
Also, has anyone considered the possibility that the game is just really, really bad and Sega is aware of this and trying to release it quietly without any fanfare? I don't want it to be true, but...
As a single player game I guess it is good, it's main meat is multiplayer and even then button mashing can help you win quite easily. Overall I think it's fair to say this might end up being Platinum's worst game.
I'm sure most SEGA games started off as "niche" titles at the first release, but they actually marketed some games before 2000. People could like this game, and that it's a different concept is not a good gauge as to how "niche" it is.
And most SEGA titles also bombed horribly and the company came close to bankruptcy. If you just check hype around the web, even with PG's own fans, there is almost no hype or excitement.
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Starting a new thread would seem kind of redundant. I own a ps3 but don't have a wireless connection yet sadly so i can't try out the japanese demo.
It'd be cool to read some impressions here so share it with us if you tried it out.
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Aki seems to hate it ans Sanus seems to really really hate it.
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It's pretty fun so far. It seems a bit like Power Stone, but without the Power Stones, and less stuff to toss around.
I can't read any Japanese at all, so I didn't make it too far into the tutorial. I've mostly just figured out controls by messing around with it. There could be a few things that I'm missing.
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You can switch the dialogue and menus to full English.
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Aki seems to hate it ans Sanus seems to really really hate it.
It is not really hate, all my impressions are from the Eurogamer stuff ages ago. As I said then and I do so now, its the multiplayer community that would make or break this game. Single player would get way too tedious for most people I would imagine.
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I played it at last years E3 and was really unimpressed. However, I gave the Japanese demo a try and now that I have the controls down, I really like it! Action is fast-paced and you do have to strategize your fighting a little or you'll get your butt kicked online. PROTIP - TUTORIAL SHOWS YOU SEVERAL MOVE YOU WILL NOT BE AWARE OF OTHERWISE. So do it.
The single player campaign was a good size for a demo. One "Black Story" match against the Baron and "White story" has a tutorial mission, bonus mission and another fight as well as a sort-of "open world" where you can just kill as many dudes as you'd like.
Multiplayer lets you choose from about 5-6 guys and only has one map, but I love the chaos and how there's so much shit going on outside of just fighting your opponents. Also, I love, love LOVE the end result that give you a ranks not just based on kill/death ratio, but how much damage you did or helped other teammates and such.
All of this with the options to make it in total English. If there's no announcement soon, I'm importing this baby after comic-con.
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I'm reading some crazy-good impressions of the demo on other forums. Now I'm actually starting to get a bit hyped after hearing more about it, hope that I can get the demo sooner rather than later. Having capped internet SUCKS, only one more day or so and i'll be able to DL the JP demo.