SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nameless 24 on August 19, 2012, 10:40:21 am
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What amazes me about SEGA is the cartridge sizes of their games.
It may not be appreciated that much, but I always wondered why SEGA's cartridges were so small whilst Nintendo's NES and SNES carts were HUGE!?! (even the Master System ones were small in comparison to SNES carts) I mean seriously, didn't they think that those cases would cost more money adding more plastic to them?
I know they added chips and stuff to make the music sound better on the NES/SNES carts but I always find it interesting how the SEGA cartridges were not only small, but they held just enough amount of memory to make great looking games too.
It's disappointing how there is little knowledge about why these cartridges were made this way, as I would love to see why SEGA went down that route...but yeah, the size of the cartridges as well as the style always intrigued me.
I guess the "It doesn't matter about the size, it's what you do with it" makes the SEGA cartridges more interesting then the Nintendo cartridges despite the add ons the Nintendo carts provided.
Can anyone elaborate anything about SEGA's cartridges?
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I'm with you on this. Sega cartridges were always sexy. Nintendo ones looked like shit.
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I think it's more Nintendo's decision to make their cartridges so large.
I'd imagine it was designed to tap into some preconception that Americans see added value in something that's larger, on some base level.
Famicom cartridges aren't nearly as large as NES ones.
(http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/smb3j_label/nesfam_2_large.jpg)
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Yeah, if you open up an NES cart it's about 3/4 empty space. I think the whole rationale in redesigning the NES for the Western market, especially the unusual mechanism for inserting cartridges, was to make it look more like a VCR and less like the appearance of previous consoles due to the console market crash in 1983. That strategy was probably directed more towards retailers than consumers, as it would have been the retailers who were hesitant to get back into stocking video games at that point. SOUP's probably right about the American preoccupation with the concept of "bigness" too.
The Master System design is more elegant and sophisticated and could almost be a contemporary design if it were put on the market today. I think the NES looks more dated in comparison, although still cool in its own way.
One area that I'm really glad Sega spent the extra money on is the nice plastic cases they used for their games almost all the way until the end of the Genesis's lifespan. They just made it clear that these were games intended to be kept and not just throwaway items like the cardboard boxes everyone else used. Over the years they've proven to be a lot more durable than even the jewel cases that came for later systems.
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Interesting, but why did Europe get the NES design if the size was to accommodate the American's tastes in bigness?
In a way, I thought that the NES cartridges were wasting material since it really didn't need to be that big (even if it were half the size it was I think it would have sold well). So Nintendo in effect wasted money somewhat with that strategy.
I agree that SEGA's Plastic Cases is probably the best thing the Video Game Industry did, as not only did it show people that games can be treated just like Music and Videos, but it also provided long term protection and fewer lawsuits as well (since warranty is pretty paramount when it comes to customers stupidity to take care of their purchases, because if they used the Cardboard Box as evidence that the manufacturer didn't protect their games, they'd most likely be sued), so SEGA were very smart to go with Plastic Cases, as their counter argument would be "Well, the case IS there to protect your games, so it's your fault!)
I do think that Nintendo's Mini DVD format for the Gamecube was a smart idea, however...it did limit the memory of their games...
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I think a lot of the western redesign of the NES had to do with not marketing it as a video game console. Mostly to avoid negative association with Atari, and the whole game crash.
Like Central said, it had the VCR-style loading system, and was made up to look almost more like a toy. (Robot included).
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Interesting, but why did Europe get the NES design if the size was to accommodate the American's tastes in bigness?
I'm not sure when exactly it happened, but I think Nintendo didn't even have a European division until well into the 16-bit era. The European marketing was probably handled by their American division. That's also a big reason why Sega was able to get a much bigger share of the market in Europe with their 8-bit system than Nintendo did.
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I'm not sure when exactly it happened, but I think Nintendo didn't even have a European division until well into the 16-bit era. The European marketing was probably handled by their American division. That's also a big reason why Sega was able to get a much bigger share of the market in Europe with their 8-bit system than Nintendo did.
I see, that does make sense now that I think about it.
It's incredible how Nintendo missed a potential market whilst SEGA took it by both hands when they found out that Nintendo wouldn't put up a fight there.
I heard that in Australia, the NES and SMS were on equal terms (just like the famous SNES vs Genesis in America), which confuses me somewhat as wouldn't those huge cartridges melt in that heat? LOL
I guess after the VG Crash, Atari's Cartridges looked like the Devil's tools or something to America (being of a similar size to SMS cartridges and what not), although Nintendo kept the images on their carts whilst SEGA just had the name of the titles on them.
It's interesting how the SMS cartridges looked simple but smaller whilst the Nintendo carts were huge, but had a picture on them as well...as I bet those were factored in the decision made after the VG Crash.
Thanks for giving me a detailed insight into this as it's a very interesting concept I wanted to delve into regarding why SEGA's carts look different to Nintendo's (and not because they are different companies, but WHY they chose those designs).
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They just made it clear that these were games intended to be kept and not just throwaway items like the cardboard boxes everyone else used. Over the years they've proven to be a lot more durable than even the jewel cases that came for later systems.
So true. I hit up a used game store over the weekend. Every single SNES and NES game? Cart only. Over half the Genesis and Master System games? Had cases. I picked up Super Hang-On with manual and case and it looks brand new! Meanwhile the SNES games were yellowing and had dirty stickers.
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That makes me wonder now about Codemaster/EA's cartridges for the Mega Drive.
Codemasters are a British Company that made some awesome multiplayer games (The J cart), whilst EA had those strange Square Cartridges with a Yellow tab on the side.
Did these have any type of special storage in them? Such as the controller port in the Codemasters ones? I think the EA cartridges held slightly more then SEGA's carts (but not by much).
It's pretty interesting that SEGA let those two developers be the exception to the rule really, and they thrived in such a way that they are still considered great developers (EA less so, but I can never forget the "Strike" series...which was so awesome, but yet so hard...did anyone ever beat those?).
Maybe we should do an article about them one day and have a look into the cartridges to see any differences perhaps?
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Electronic Arts (as they were known in those days) was already quite a rich and powerful software company, having been one of the top PC publishers for a decade or so. IIRC, they had already reverse-engineered the Genesis and were set to release unlicensed cartridges for it. So they had some leverage in getting a sweetheart deal with Sega and that might be the reason why they could have their own special cartridge shells. I'm assuming EA had to manufacture those themselves.
As for whether they really contained more memory or anything else internally that set them apart from "regular" cartridges, I think that is just a perception and not actually true, but we should definitely open them up and take a look. I don't have any right now though.
I've never seen that Codemasters cart you're talking about -- I'd love to check it out. It's got a built in controller port??
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HAHA! Wtf, you're right! What an oddity:
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/987/316460-mega_drive_j_cart_super.jpg)
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Ah I see, that's interesting.
I guess it kind of worked out for SEGA eventually obtaining the leading Sports games for it's consoles. None of this "Which FIFA is the best on the PS3/360" stuff you get today.
I only know about those carts because my neighbour obtained one (that very cart Barry)...too bad we never played 4 player on them so I don't know whether they worked or not (Micro Machines is still amazing even to this day), but yeah....Codemasters were probably the only other official manufacturer...which is ironic considering the Dizzy Series didn't sell all that much (I read somewhere that the people who started Codemasters were given £1000 to start up a game, and Dizzy made something like...10k copies in the first instalment, which isn't impressive considering that the tape manufacturing and the cost of the tapes (about £3 at most) didn't make them as profitable as you'd think...but they made it profitable via the CD format at the time).
They are also famous for the fabled Game Genie (which I still have)...which was a Hexadecimal manipulator at heart but to me, it was a cheat code masterpiece! That cart is also pretty special in terms of it's properties, as it had to be switched "on" in order for it to work (probably ran on batteries), and was shaped like an EA/SOnic & Knuckles hybrid cartridge that was merely a pass through device to access the code of the games.
Man...Codemasters sure knew how to make those cartridges.
Now that I think about it, why DIDN'T SEGA ask EA or Codemasters to make a cheap enough chip to implement into their cartridges? Capcom and the like did so with their SNES games.
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Now that I think about it, why DIDN'T SEGA ask EA or Codemasters to make a cheap enough chip to implement into their cartridges? Capcom and the like did so with their SNES games.
What kind of chip?
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One similar to the Virtua Racing chip or something similar to what Capcom and the like did for their games on the SNES.
It would have been interesting to see what those two could have come up with.
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Seems like it could have likely been an issue of cost. I remember that the Virtua Racing cart debuted at $99 in the US. And that had the benefit of being a huge arcade hit with a lot of name recognition.
It's an interesting topic, though... It seems many consoles had at least one or two such unusual cartridges, with extra chips of some sort built in to them. I know the Atari 2600 had a couple of them -- Pitfall II was one.
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Seems like it could have likely been an issue of cost. I remember that the Virtua Racing cart debuted at $99 in the US. And that had the benefit of being a huge arcade hit with a lot of name recognition.
It's an interesting topic, though... It seems many consoles had at least one or two such unusual cartridges, with extra chips of some sort built in to them. I know the Atari 2600 had a couple of them -- Pitfall II was one.
Yeah, the chips did cost a lot to manufacture, but if Codemasters can create their own cartridges with controller ports in them (I don't think Codemasters made much money compared to the likes of Square or Capcom), I am sure they could create a mini chip that could enhance the Mega Drives cartridges by at least a third of what it could do without one.
It's quite sad that SEGA abandoned the Mega Drive/Genesis by late 1994 in favour of the 32x/Saturn, but I think if they offered EA/Codemasters to manufacture the cartridges for any post-1995 games to other devs with their own little enhancement chips and whatnot, then I could see that the Mega Drive/Genesis last a few years longer then the SNES and still have a great line up til '97.
I mean, in the UK, the Mega Drive was still selling by 2000. I could see that if they supported it with more games from developers who were up and coming, then it would have benefited SEGA a little bit more (not by much, but it'd be something).
Sorry for the rant, lol.
The 2600 I think had many games with enhancement chips very late into it's life, but yeah. Pitfall II is an interesting example.