SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Barry the Nomad on October 26, 2012, 08:53:34 am
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(http://www.iovideogioco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/shenmue3.jpg)
Yeah, I went there. I made a Shenmue III topic.
I don't want to speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure we all want a Shenmue III. However, as years pass, it seems less and less a possibility. Sure there are the occasional references in games like All-Stars Racing and Hell Yeah, or the small spin-offs like Shenmue Online and that Shenmue social game, but these don't come close to filling that void. Some point to these cameos and spin-offs and say that they are signs of SEGA considering a third title. But I believe at best, they are much welcomed assurances that the idea of Shenmue is not dead, although the third title may very well be. Until we actually see SEGA and Yu starting up work on a third, I'm not getting my hopes up.
Of couse, many diluted fans point to games like Yakuza and (laughably) even iOS titles as taking away from the possibility of Shenmue III. This is, without a doubt, my BIGGEST pet peeve when it comes to SEGA fans. It seriously makes me wonder if they are even SEGA fans, or if they are simply bandwagon jumpers who believe that Shenmue comes before all else, and that SEGA is dead to them until a Shenmue III appears. I'd even doubt that idiots who spam SEGA's facebook wall with comments like "Ugh, just release Shenmue III" have even bought a SEGA game in the past five years, let alone played any of SEGA's recent titles. Of course, these are only a small cluster of fans, and in no way are a reflection of folks who consider themselves actual Shenmue fans. Hell, I'M a SHenmue fan. I don't act like that. So that whole rant was not an attack on Shenmue fans, but rather an attack on morons who think spamming a social media site = increasing the chance of a Shenmue III. At best, shit like that makes Shenmue fans seem like annoying parrots who repeat the same thing day after day.
Still some fans are so obsessed with the notion of a third title, that it is all they tweet about: https://twitter.com/Shenmue500K , https://twitter.com/MrBryanFigueroa
They can do what they want with their time, and I commend their commitment. But when they side with the Facebook spammers, it makes me wonder...
In any case, I am of the firm belief that pointing the blame at ANY SEGA game taking away from Shenmue's chances is a stupid thing to do. Yakuza 1&2's budget: 2.4 billion yen (21 million US dollars), Shenmue 1&2's budget: $70 million, equivalent to $95 million in 2011. Without even adjusting Yakuza to match Shenmue's budget to 2011 numbers, two Yakuza titles cost little compared to two Shenmue titles. And unlike Shenmue, Yakuza became profitable.
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Anyway, long first post short: I really want a Shenmue III, but I GET why it's a difficult game for SEGA to commit to. Unless they can make a third at a reasonable price, it's not gonna happen for a long while (if at all).
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Fully agree!
I remember reading a description of the first Shenmue game before it was release. Just the description of the game seem like the holy grail of gaming (to me at the time). Avenging your father's death, open world Japanese city, full time and weather system, full voice acting RPG, practicing Martial Arts in your spare time. virtua fighter fight mechanics with an expanding move list, playing arcade versions of retro sega games!!!
Then getting a hold of a copy and actually playing it, Instant gaming nirvana. It was such a miracle of a game that I felt lucky it even existed at all. It was literally to me at the time TOO GOOD. I'm sure I lost a lot of friends (ones who didn't have a dreamcast) droning on about it.
I also remember spending $125 for an import of Shenmue 2 (the very last copy available at the EB near me at the time). While I felt the emotional impact was not the same (I find that the first game has more charm), the gameplay was more refined, the scale much larger and action dialed up, big-time. Who's heart wasn't racing landing the final QTE on Dou Niu, only to be gifted with the relaxing and surreal final chapter?
There is a lot a emotion invested with Shenmue, and with double-digit versions of Final Fantasy out there, I think the vocal cries for Shenmue 3 come from gamers who don't really understand how great the ambition and investment was and how comparatively low the return was on this series.
End of rant. Shenmue, best game ever.
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when talking about shenmue 3. i wouls even buy it with the same graphics like shenmue 2. all i want is that the story goes on. sometimes i just get back to that shenmue site for the fool that i am hoping ittl be updated somehow
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I used to believe it would happen, but with the way Sega is now, it's never ever coming out.
Which is a crying shame.
Maybe one day Yu Suzuki will manage to make a manga or something, but i doubt it.
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I used to believe it would happen, but with the way Sega is now, it's never ever coming out.
Which is a crying shame.
+ budget for current games.
Halo 4 is easily over $100 million in terms of its budget (And CoD's and GTAV are easily in that price bracket, if not more)
For us to get the Shenmue that would interest ALL Shenmure fans + fans of general video games, SEGA need to spend an excessively obscene amount of money that would be insane in this day and age. Profits from the next Sonic game, Yakuza game, Football Manager and maybe a few digital titles would have to go just for one title... Which would probably not making any sort of return, especially with the amount of people who would need to buy this game.
So yeah, unlikely.
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+ budget for current games.
Halo 4 is easily over $100 million in terms of its budget (And CoD's and GTAV are easily in that price bracket, if not more)
For us to get the Shenmue that would interest ALL Shenmure fans + fans of general video games, SEGA need to spend an excessively obscene amount of money that would be insane in this day and age. Profits from the next Sonic game, Yakuza game, Football Manager and maybe a few digital titles would have to go just for one title... Which would probably not making any sort of return, especially with the amount of people who would need to buy this game.
So yeah, unlikely.
i know you are realistic. but i want to talk against this even tho it may be true.
there are many gamepublishers in their start who would beg to make a game.
just to take example from the phenomenon killzone. they started to make this game at home. and we have seen the result how good that game was and the commotion was great.
since the shenmue sega is so expensive as they claim it to be. but there were no possibilities considered to look at the other side. a fresh publisher doesnt mean a bad game publisher. plus there is no real deadline made in this game. they could adapt all the previous shenmue into the next shenmue plus some major extras and a new graphic engine such as the one of the yakuza 5.
this is so sad.
we have seen this happening with little big adventure back in the days. so this is not the expenses per say.
duke nukem forever took more then a decade and it was almost not happening. but when it came out people kinda forgot about duke nukem.
and i fear this for shenmue
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At best, and I believe I went into this more in an old podcast, SEGA could make a game with elements and features that is equal to that of the Yakuza series combined with what was presented in Shenmue II running on some sort of enhanced Virtua Fighter 4 engine. Perhaps an enhanced Yakuza engine with VF4 fighting? I'll admit, knowing the ins and outs of game engines is not a strength of mine, so I might be wrong on this working well.
In any case, I think the BIG problem is that at the time, Shenmue I and II were jaw dropping. The features were, as Randroid mentioned, "Instant gaming nirvana" and it truly was the holy grail for gamers.
For Shenmue III to match those levels in todays world would call for a game that would blow just about every Read Dead Redemption, Sleeping Dogs and Watch Dogs and even Yakuza title out of the water. But to do that would mean an obscene budget.
So in the end, I think a Shenmue III that has the potential to exist would fall well below what was expected, and was eventually delivered, in the first two. At least, I don't think it would be a step up, but rather a step sideways and would be more of the same and an extension of the first two titles.
But is this a bad thing? I'm going to say no. While a Shenmue III produced on a reasonable budget, using existing engines and bringing more of the same gameplay features found in the first title would not be a step up, it would certainly be an actual Shenmue III and really, thats all I want. Even if it does not expand on F.R.E.E. (full reactive eyes entertainment) gameplay, I think SEGA and Yu could easily balance that out with story.
Story, I think, should be the star of Shenmue III, and I'd think a good story and a CONCLUSION to the Shenmue series is far more important than finding new mini-games and real time weather features. Other games like Rockstar's titles and SEGA's Yakuza titles already have shown us these sorts of features, and I don't think Shenmue could ever expand on that. Given the story seemed to be moving into nature and into small villages and enemy hideouts, I don't see a lot of stuff from the first two games fitting in anyway. Why would toy capsules and odd jobs come into play when Ryo is so close to encountering Lan Di?
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Part of me would be satisfied with episodic releases similiar to Sonic 4 and Telltale's games: Walking Dead, Back to the Future, and Wallace and Gromit. That obviously comes from the "something is better than nothing" mentality, but I would hate for them to only release a single episode and then stop if that release didn't meet expectations. The benefit though is having clear goals of what each episode should provide, executing it, and then having existing toolsets to build the rest of the releases.
A full release would heavily rely on the Yakuza technology and toolsets that they've already evolved over the years, cutting costs significantly. I agree that focusing more on story and focused gameplay is the way to do it, omitting many of the distractions. The problem with that though is the so called "Shenmue fans" will bitch about not having capsule toys, and any other feature from the previous games, enough to boycott the release.
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I wonder if SEGA would have the balls to fund a Shenmue III via kickstarter? I mean, I'm sure it would net a ton of money, the problem is that it pretty much would fuel the "SEGA is broke and is dead" mentality. Plus it's not how they function as a company, it's more of a indie game method.
Also, if they had donation levels, would they give the game out as a reward? Can't imagine that. However, if a kickstarter campaign DID fund Shenmue III, I would gladly give $150 even if it meant I wasn't getting the copy of the game as a reward. If it meant I'd just have my name in the credits, I'd love it. Food for thought.
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At best, and I believe I went into this more in an old podcast, SEGA could make a game with elements and features that is equal to that of the Yakuza series combined with what was presented in Shenmue II running on some sort of enhanced Virtua Fighter 4 engine. Perhaps an enhanced Yakuza engine with VF4 fighting? I'll admit, knowing the ins and outs of game engines is not a strength of mine, so I might be wrong on this working well.
In any case, I think the BIG problem is that at the time, Shenmue I and II were jaw dropping. The features were, as Randroid mentioned, "Instant gaming nirvana" and it truly was the holy grail for gamers.
For Shenmue III to match those levels in todays world would call for a game that would blow just about every Read Dead Redemption, Sleeping Dogs and Watch Dogs and even Yakuza title out of the water. But to do that would mean an obscene budget.
So in the end, I think a Shenmue III that has the potential to exist would fall well below what was expected, and was eventually delivered, in the first two. At least, I don't think it would be a step up, but rather a step sideways and would be more of the same and an extension of the first two titles.
But is this a bad thing? I'm going to say no. While a Shenmue III produced on a reasonable budget, using existing engines and bringing more of the same gameplay features found in the first title would not be a step up, it would certainly be an actual Shenmue III and really, thats all I want. Even if it does not expand on F.R.E.E. (full reactive eyes entertainment) gameplay, I think SEGA and Yu could easily balance that out with story.
Story, I think, should be the star of Shenmue III, and I'd think a good story and a CONCLUSION to the Shenmue series is far more important than finding new mini-games and real time weather features. Other games like Rockstar's titles and SEGA's Yakuza titles already have shown us these sorts of features, and I don't think Shenmue could ever expand on that. Given the story seemed to be moving into nature and into small villages and enemy hideouts, I don't see a lot of stuff from the first two games fitting in anyway. Why would toy capsules and odd jobs come into play when Ryo is so close to encountering Lan Di?
After reading this and I'll start with saying that I totally agree that it only needs to match the current generations gaming standards for people to accept it as Shenmue 3, BUT again, after reading your post, if, IF they were to really attempt the next holy grail of gaming as Shenmue 3 as the first one was for its time..... ooooh goosebumps.
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I wonder if SEGA would have the balls to fund a Shenmue III via kickstarter? I mean, I'm sure it would net a ton of money, the problem is that it pretty much would fuel the "SEGA is broke and is dead" mentality. Plus it's not how they function as a company, it's more of a indie game method.
Also, if they had donation levels, would they give the game out as a reward? Can't imagine that. However, if a kickstarter campaign DID fund Shenmue III, I would gladly give $150 even if it meant I wasn't getting the copy of the game as a reward. If it meant I'd just have my name in the credits, I'd love it. Food for thought.
I was going t say it would be interesting to see a Kickstarter made for Shenners 3. Even so, it wouldn't meet the requirements for anything but a really tiny game, how much did Double Fine's game end up earning? It was something like 4 mil I think, but that's not much at all for Shenmue. It would still be enough to do SOMETHING though, which is better than we've got right now.
And fuck yeah, if it had an awesome backer's exclusive collectible and something like my name in the credits, I would even cough up $1k to fund the game. I'm not even joking, Shenmue is legendary amongst games now, I would certainly put up some serious dosh to be a part of it and see it come to fruition.
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I was going t say it would be interesting to see a Kickstarter made for Shenners 3. Even so, it wouldn't meet the requirements for anything but a really tiny game, how much did Double Fine's game end up earning? It was something like 4 mil I think, but that's not much at all for Shenmue. It would still be enough to do SOMETHING though, which is better than we've got right now.
And fuck yeah, if it had an awesome backer's exclusive collectible and something like my name in the credits, I would even cough up $1k to fund the game. I'm not even joking, Shenmue is legendary amongst games now, I would certainly put up some serious dosh to be a part of it and see it come to fruition.
im not a fan of nothing. cause i think being fan of something is gay. i have my religion and that is enough to grasp on. as for the shenmue 3 being called the holy grail and i completely agree with this term as a equivalent of panzer dragoon saga. i think there should be another pd saga as well. just to stay on topic i dnt like the idea of shenmue becoming a ios game unless it be a spinoff of a game yet to make another part on the console in the future.
shenmue is being raped regardless at the moment.
if it dont come out on time it will be forgotten soon. if it comes on ios only and the crappy online purchase games it will be considered a degradation of a game that had the best graphics and gameplay and environment of all time.
sometimes i just wonder what is sega thinking? we all just kinda talk of what we read and the research we have at hand. but that is just not enough to even talk and say what sega thinks. sega doesnt think as one body anymore. i mentioned before that there are more chiefs then workers.
so when talking about shenmue combining this with the shattered pyramid of sega plus the dumb negotiations about makin or not making games.
to move it up a little bit i stay on the opinion that sega needs to bring out shenmue3 i really dictate. THEY HAVE TO
because it cant go on like this to keep good games away and the shizzle they bring out. i call them one day flies. we all kinda hyped up about wrath of the rabbit or whatever. but wtf. it aint gonna be that big.
shenmue 3 is a must
just like resonance fate 2
skies of arcadia 2
those games are so epic and they actually a success. even skies / eternal arcadia did reaaaaally well on gamecube. and yeah even on the Dreamcast.
shenmue was that kinda game that even pirates bought original. and by now people still play it. and some just found out it existed and started to play it. this best yet an underdog game became world famous by sega and non sega hillbilly nerds. if it would come out it would mos def sell.
but who are we to talk?
at the end we dont even know what sega really thinks. cause sega is more then one person.
yes or no?
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im not a fan of nothing. cause i think being fan of something is gay. i have my religion and that is enough to grasp on.
What the hell?
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What the hell?
more in a sense of someone being fan of justin bieber
thats gay aint it?
i like sega the best more in a way yo dude we homies. ;)
being a fan is like being an idolworshippers.
btw ryo hazuki is down with i forgot her name.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/22ypt3.jpg)
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Can someone please ban semmie, he's obviously dropped a hot dose of LSD.
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Can't ban semmie, but a message to semmie: You have got to start typing coherently and stop with the bizarre large images and strange posts.
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Can someone please ban semmie, he's obviously dropped a hot dose of LSD.
lol speaking in an enigmatic way doesnt make me crazy.
it makes me different then the usual sega peeps.
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Can't ban semmie, but a message to semmie: You have got to start typing coherently and stop with the bizarre large images and strange posts.
coherently i cant promise
the large image could v been smaller. ah well next time better.
btw there is homebrew for shenmue 3 i remember. it was kinda crappy but you could continue the story from part 0 well basically it was shenmue 0 ill give the link when i find it
her it is
http://www.segaroleplaying.com/fga/shenzero.php
it aint unreal engine. but its funny to try
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I was going t say it would be interesting to see a Kickstarter made for Shenners 3. Even so, it wouldn't meet the requirements for anything but a really tiny game, how much did Double Fine's game end up earning? It was something like 4 mil I think, but that's not much at all for Shenmue. It would still be enough to do SOMETHING though, which is better than we've got right now.
And fuck yeah, if it had an awesome backer's exclusive collectible and something like my name in the credits, I would even cough up $1k to fund the game. I'm not even joking, Shenmue is legendary amongst games now, I would certainly put up some serious dosh to be a part of it and see it come to fruition.
The thing about the $70mil budget gets brought up a lot with Shenmue, maybe deservedly so because it was the most expensive game for a while. But I don't think that would necessarily be the case moving forward. Yu Suzuki stated last year that a lot of the expense was due to the fact that they were an arcade team trying to figure out how to transition to making this unprecedented type of adventure game. Surely his experience at this point would enable him to produce the project without the kind of experimentation that they must have spent a considerable amount of time on when initiating the project. And also, I think I've mentioned this before half in jest, but I seriously think that some amount of that big budget back in the day must have gone towards Suzuki's personal Ferrari collection. I don't mean anytning unethical, I just mean that he doesn't need to draw that kind of salary anymore. Moving forward Shenmue will have to be made on a budget that's a fraction of the original. Of course, the original made back a significant amount of that $70mil considering it sold over a million copes.
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I agree that it could be made on a fraction of the cost, but even so Kickstarter isn't going to raise enough for a decent retail quality release game.
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With rereleases coming out, wouldn't they release the first 2 games in HD to get some money in for a III game or something? I would assume that a lot of fans would buy them if they "really" support the franchise.
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MadeMan: agreed.
KoriMaru: Well, I think they would want to have III underway already, so that it would release within a year or so after they do the digital re-release. If they could time it like that, it would build up some hype that could drive sales of III beyond just the following it already has. But to time it like that, III would already have to have a budget in place and be in development. Otherwise the digital rereleases would come out and then we'd be waiting three or four more years. Also, I don't necessarily think Sega is going to be handing over the profits from the digital rereleases to Yu Suzuki's development team.
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MadeMan: agreed.
KoriMaru: Well, I think they would want to have III underway already, so that it would release within a year or so after they do the digital re-release. If they could time it like that, it would build up some hype that could drive sales of III beyond just the following it already has. But to time it like that, III would already have to have a budget in place and be in development. Otherwise the digital rereleases would come out and then we'd be waiting three or four more years. Also, I don't necessarily think Sega is going to be handing over the profits from the digital rereleases to Yu Suzuki's development team.
my current opinion is based on several games made in the past that never saw light anymore. if it takes too long people will forget it. and those that dont are us. if u ask me leaving shenmue in the case is just wrong sega needs to bring it out. it will make them profit. im absolutely convinced about that. especially if they bring out shen1 and 2 hd on bd.(not on psn) people want a blue ray in their shelves. and after if shen 3 would come that would be like
1. the sega fans that allready kneww shenmue will buy it. lets pick a crazy number of sails. 2 million copies
2. real gamers that know shenmue 1 and 2 played it on dc as a backup. they probably would buy it the rpg ffre die hards. lets pick another rough estimate of another 400.000 copies
3. people who never played shenmue but always were curious. thats shen 1 and 2 300.000 copies
250.000 on shen 3
4. pirated peeps who basically dont buy it but start to fall in love and buy the original copy 100.000 copies shen 1 2 and 3
5.people who never knew about shenmue what so ever but get dragged in the hype finding out trough shen hd. 50.000
6.tne the last but no least. gamers who just buy it out of nowhere tying something new 25.000 copies(these are the easy consumers
look this just came up my thumb and none of this is truth., however its not far from a lie or truth. in a logical sense with the proper tools this goal could be achieved. and maybe even if it would be a little less then the goal. still it would be a big accomplishment.
many of u might say eey wtf this guy talks nonsense. its fine by me. but if u wouls pay attention you would find some core of possible truth
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One thing that a successful Kickstarter campaign might do is to get private big money investors (Sega or otherwise) to feel confident enough to put in an additional level of funding.
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If Sega brings first 1 & 2 out on XBLA, PSN and Nintendo E shop. It doesn't cost lots of money because the game already exists. then with the money they can starty on a 3the one with the Dreamcast graphics engine to make it cheaper.
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If Sega brings first 1 & 2 out on XBLA, PSN and Nintendo E shop. It doesn't cost lots of money because the game already exists. then with the money they can starty on a 3the one with the Dreamcast graphics engine to make it cheaper.
If it only were that simple...
Though a rerelease of the first two is a matter of time at this point.. I mean, they have to be working on something right guys?
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If Sega brings first 1 & 2 out on XBLA, PSN and Nintendo E shop. It doesn't cost lots of money because the game already exists. then with the money they can starty on a 3the one with the Dreamcast graphics engine to make it cheaper.
exactly!
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Making Shenmue 3 with Dreamcast era graphics would be a gigantic misstep.
Sure, we would accept it, but the general gamer would not. If Shenmue is going to have any kind of future it will be as a digital release of Shenmue and Shenmue 2.
After that anything can happen. In the current climate I would suspect that the games would sell reasonably well as digital releases. Shenmue 3 would probably be pretty irrelevant, unless the gameplay and presentation are both changed drastically to suit today's standards.
Yu Suzuki is virtually retired. Nagoshi is the only person I know of who could be in charge of Shenmue 3. Unless there's some new, as of yet unknown personality at Sega.
Anyway, we're all just talking out of our asses, as no one knows anything about the internal bullshit that happens in any company, much less a company on the other side of the planet, who speak some gobbly gook language and write sentences with little squiggles.
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It would simply be very unlike SEGA to take a step back when it comes to the graphics of Shenmue. No way would SEGA, or AM2, or Suzuki, allow a third game to be made with blocky Dreamcast graphics. At best, they'd adapt existing current gen graphics. Perhaps what we'd see is a Shenmue III with VF5 or Yakuza 5 graphics. Maybe they wouldn't be groundbreaking, but they'd surely be on par with current gen SEGA titles.
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I would certainly expect the character models to be updated to current standards. But a related aspect that I've thought about is the issue of the textures. Shenmue 1 and 2 have a very distinctive look because every texture is hand-drawn/painted. With a reduced budget, Suzuki will have to seriously consider shifting over to photographic textures to save time and money. Ultimately this will probably give the game more mass appeal, as the masses seem to prize realism above all other aesthetics. But it will be a big change for the series.
Since it will likely be Yu Suzuki's company developing the game, and not Sega, I don't think there will be any involvement from Nagoshi. But I think the game would probably benefit from Nagoshi's expertise that he's developed through... is it 10 now?... Yakuza titles. But I don't know if Suzuki could swallow his pride to bring in Nagoshi as a consultant, much less a co-director.
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Err, I'm pretty sure Yu Suzuki is retired from videogames. Seems like one of those strange Japanese situations where he's got this office he goes to every day with a sign out front and 10 employees and they all look like they're working hard but at the end of the day they've actually done nothing.
I'm sure he just google's Ferraris and motorcycles all day long while drinking wine in his office, and is living off his investments made when he was wealthy (the 80's and 90's).
I mean, what has he actually made in the past ten years?? Nothing. You have Shenmue City, whatever that is, and some virtua fighter app.
He's essentially making tiny applications for junky japanese cell phones. They barely even use smart phones over there.
Anyway... I've completely given up hope on Yu Suzuki. I feel like he just doesn't have "it" anymore. "It" here meaning ability, talent, and a passion for making software.
Time to hand his creations off to the next generation, to make them relevant again.
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^ I agree. While I think he's still capable of making great games, he's pretty much retired now. Well not retired, but he's just making smartphone junk instead of real games, probably so he can do the aforementioned Ferrari googling.
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He did Sega Race TV
Also he is a acclaimed painter. Probably makes a living off of that.
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http://www.tssznews.com/2013/03/03/shenmue-3-could-be-coming-via-kickstarter/
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Cool. If SEGA would allow it / help out that would be awesome.
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lol, TSSZ.
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I'll only believe it if Yu Suzuki says it himself or Sega.
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It would be long overdo. Maybe we can have a dream crossover between Yakuza and Shenmue while we're at it~?