SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: semmie on February 15, 2013, 01:31:54 am
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everybody has his story
and ive been listening to the punk ass bill gates and he had his side of the story.
the meaning of this topic is to filter rumors and keep the essence of truth.
to start what i red lately it really made sense:
SEGA being screwed by both Peter Moore and Microsoft, SEGA was indeed the first console to make online gaming mainstream and if it wasn't for Dreamcast, there would be no XBOX. Microsoft on purposed worked on Dreamcast just so they could figure out how the console industry operates, and then they used SEGA as a stepping stone and decided to make their own console. However, XBOX was second on every single thing, DREAMCAST was first, and in my opinion, much better
SEGA used Windows CE technology and originally, Microsoft was supposed to supply an online service for SEGA, but they screwed SEGA and decided to make their own console. Peter Moore was in full control of Sega of America and he basically screwed SEGA as well, especially when he decided to fire a bunch of Japanese workers directly associated with Dreamcast. He joined Microsoft afterwards... total screw job
ME: i think this is truth.
enlighten me. sega had good plans in essence. but dem bithes dont roll
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1993. Spread way too thinly. They could have and should have focused all their fire on the Saturn.
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"The Saturn isn't our future!"
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Not having any mass-market games.
There needed to be far more killing and violence and less happiness.
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Not having any mass-market games.
There needed to be far more killing and violence and less happiness.
i think one of the lates news about the alien games is the perfect example how the beautifull sega company got screwed over and over again. sega itself is a shining star but they should start to learn that not everyone is so sincere like they are. they should make more use of human knowledge
but hey this is what uu get if u dont make use of your own teams like am2 and sonic team etc.....
you cant expect the outsourced companys to be sweet milfs with sincere love. they can be bitches as well.
sega needs to make a strong big titanium defensive wall against these peeps. the ideas of sega are perfect. but the peeps tryin to make shit for sega are not
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I'd say lack of direction. After the genesis, Sega had a lack of direction in where they were going at least in the west. It also didn't help that you had Sega subsidaries competing against each other and companies like Segasoft focusing on another field like PC. They also failed in tying the different depatments together like the arcades.They spread themselves to thin and didn't built up the userbase they had with the Master system and genesis something that really started during the end of the genesis era. So we have what we have now. A brand name called Sega which is a collection of fans who are into different franchises that sega happen to own and not fans of the company as a whole like it use to be.
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but hey this is what uu get if u dont make use of your own teams like am2 and sonic team etc.....
you cant expect the outsourced companys to be sweet milfs with sincere love. they can be bitches as well.
sega needs to make a strong big titanium defensive wall against these peeps. the ideas of sega are perfect. but the peeps tryin to make shit for sega are not
Except that Platinum Games made some of the best Sega games of the last decade.
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i think one of the lates news about the alien games is the perfect example how the beautifull sega company got screwed over and over again. sega itself is a shining star but they should start to learn that not everyone is so sincere like they are. they should make more use of human knowledge
Dude. Chill your Segaboner a bit.
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Semmie, Sega isn't the Virgin mary. They're more like Mary mary magdalene with a bit of Kim kardasian thrown in. Sometimes they are the cause of their own problems.
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SEGA used Windows CE technology and originally, Microsoft was supposed to supply an online service for SEGA, but they screwed SEGA and decided to make their own console. Peter Moore was in full control of Sega of America and he basically screwed SEGA as well,
So wrong on so many levels . MS provided a OS developement system for a platform, which is what MS do (being a software corp) and Peter Moore and SOA did more for the SEGA Dreamcast than Japan and Europe; It was though divsions that let the side down with poor hardware and software sales and it was SOJ that pulled the plug, not SEGA America
, SEGA was indeed the first console to make online gaming mainstream
The list of on-line games for the DC isn't that big mate , and long before the DC the likes of Saturn was talking console gamers on the Web and the DC wasn't even the 1st console to ship with a Modem as standard : that honour belongs to the Pippin
However, XBOX was second on every single thing, DREAMCAST was first, and in my opinion, much better
X-Box LIVE service was leagues ahead of anything on the DC. The friends and match making, easy of use on the system better than anything on the PC too (at the time) MS spend millions on developing the system and it showed .
It all started to go wrong in the 32 bit age. Trying to develope for and support 2 different 32 bit consoles as well as supporting the Game Gear, Mega Drive and Arcades spread SEGA too thin and as a result SEGA lost marketshare, 3rd parties and loads of money and sadly that's to blame
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Semmie, Sega isn't the Virgin mary. They're more like Mary mary magdalene with a bit of Kim kardasian thrown in. Sometimes they are the cause of their own problems.
lol, being "passed around" by men until "Jesus" rescued her....would Jesus be Nintendo then?
I think SEGA shot themselves in the foot when they still had a foothold over Nintendo in the 16-bit era, and that desire to be "first" in the console generation was their downfall.
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lol, being "passed around" by men until "Jesus" rescued her....would Jesus be Nintendo then?
Errr no. I meant that they were experienced in the realities of life than the virgin mary ever was. The kim Kadasian bit is Sega's desire to work with companies that is wel;l known in order to make themselves look good for publicity's sake.
I think SEGA shot themselves in the foot when they still had a foothold over Nintendo in the 16-bit era, and that desire to be "first" in the console generation was their downfall.
If sega didn't build a 16 bit when they did we'd wouldn't be enjoying the likes of the revelation of the PS4 and the other current systems. Left it to Nintendo, well look at the Wii. Being first wasn't there downfall, being disorganised was.
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So wrong on so many levels . MS provided a OS developement system for a platform, which is what MS do (being a software corp) and Peter Moore and SOA did more for the SEGA Dreamcast than Japan and Europe; It was though divsions that let the side down with poor hardware and software sales and it was SOJ that pulled the plug, not SEGA America
Peter Moore did more? LOL. I wasn't impressed my self. but then Stolar was a nightmare even if he did guide the DC to a succesful american launch and had promising ideas ahead. His redemption with Sega wasn't to be and after the saturn fiasco, good riddance. sadly i dont think any Sega west president in that era was particulary good.
The list of on-line games for the DC isn't that big mate , and long before the DC the likes of Saturn was talking console gamers on the Web and the DC wasn't even the 1st console to ship with a Modem as standard : that honour belongs to the Pippin
strange i thought that was Atari's honour.
X-Box LIVE service was leagues ahead of anything on the DC. The friends and match making, easy of use on the system better than anything on the PC too (at the time) MS spend millions on developing the system and it showed .
Of course it would be. But it was based on ideas that Sega had and implemented with the DC and even the segasoft HEAT.net service. You just have to see the promo promoting the xbox live service and see it was a rip off of the DC online US ad. If you're saying its better i wouldn't diagree. but if you are saying Microsoft wasn't using the DC and even the Saturn as a basis of their ideas for the XBOX system then i would disagree.
It all started to go wrong in the 32 bit age. Trying to develope for and support 2 different 32 bit consoles as well as supporting the Game Gear, Mega Drive and Arcades spread SEGA too thin and as a result SEGA lost marketshare, 3rd parties and loads of money and sadly that's to blame
32x was an add on not a console. while i agree with the gist of it i think what really did them in was the infighting between the companies and not focusing on the big picture by making a success of the saturn internationally. If they had been focused the fiasco with the Saturn's game dev and release schedule and not releasing certain titles as well as the DC's initial development debacle would never have happened which wasted much needed cash reserves.
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Peter Moore did more? LOL
Where he did . The man that got the DC to shift the most Hardware, the most software and the man that didn't want SEGA to stop production of the DC, the man that pushed the DC On-line features the most .
All the DC best selling software sales came from the USA not Japan or the joke that was the DC in Europe .
strange i thought that was Atari's honour
Console with a Modem built in as standard belongs to the Pippin, not Atari.
You just have to see the promo promoting the xbox live service and see it was a rip off of the DC online US ad.
X-Box LIVE was nothing like DC Online for a whole host of reasons not least running P2P instead of Dictated services. MS Spend millions a years developing LIVE and it showed . At the time LIVE was ahead of anything on the consoles and PC .
One area quite a lot of people ripped off SEGA Japan and the DC was in having classic download service.
32x was an add on not a console
It was less of an add on and more of its own console . And it split SEGA development and marketing Budgets , that with also trying to support a Handheld, the MD and Arcade was asking for trouble
If they had been focused the fiasco with the Saturn's game dev and release schedule and not releasing certain titles as well as the DC's
And we can thank the 32X for that . Saturn came some 6 years after the MD launched in Japan. With out the 32X in the West you would have had the likes of Star Wars, Doom, VR Delux Ect all to go along with Panzer, VF, Daytona USA (that's more enough for launch software)
and I doubt the Saturn would have been rushed out either (after the 32X started to see massive drops in sales)
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Errr no. I meant that they were experienced in the realities of life than the virgin mary ever was. The kim Kadasian bit is Sega's desire to work with companies that is wel;l known in order to make themselves look good for publicity's sake.If sega didn't build a 16 bit when they did we'd wouldn't be enjoying the likes of the revelation of the PS4 and the other current systems. Left it to Nintendo, well look at the Wii. Being first wasn't there downfall, being disorganised was.
The way you worded it sounded like a completely different meaning dude, but if you say so.
I never said that it was a bad thing that SEGA did that, just that they handled the tail end of that generation wrongly.
But they were first, on every console since the Mega Drive...so it is, up to a point a correct statement. Disorganisation was a part of it, but look at Sony and Nintendo, who've also took a mis-step in the past so I wouldn't put that down on SEGA alone.
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Where he did . The man that got the DC to shift the most Hardware, the most software and the man that didn't want SEGA to stop production of the DC, the man that pushed the DC On-line features the most .
Just continued stuff from what the previous president did. Nothing more nothing less.
All the DC best selling software sales came from the USA not Japan or the joke that was the DC in Europe .
No shit.
Console with a Modem built in as standard belongs to the Pippin, not Atari.
Not the first to use the technology which is what i said. Atari was the first to use modem tech with the game line, then someone else, i forgotten who and then Sega with the Mega modem and later on Seganet for saturn.
X-Box LIVE was nothing like DC Online for a whole host of reasons not least running P2P instead of Dictated services. MS Spend millions a years developing LIVE and it showed . At the time LIVE was ahead of anything on the consoles and PC .
Weren't you saying that DC dream arena was similar to XBOX LIVE years ago? Regardless, live wouldn't have happened without some of the things spearheaded by DC online and hEATnet.
One area quite a lot of people ripped off SEGA Japan and the DC was in having classic download service.
True.
It was less of an add on and more of its own console . And it split SEGA development and marketing Budgets , that with also trying to support a Handheld, the MD and Arcade was asking for trouble
32x needed the megadrive to work. So it was an add on.
And we can thank the 32X for that . Saturn came some 6 years after the MD launched in Japan. With out the 32X in the West you would have had the likes of Star Wars, Doom, VR Delux Ect all to go along with Panzer, VF, Daytona USA (that's more enough for launch software)
and I doubt the Saturn would have been rushed out either (after the 32X started to see massive drops in sales)
No we can thank SOJ for it. None of the titles would have appeared on the saturn anyway and that's a fact that you keep forgetting. many of the third parties and certain Sega games that had titles canned once the 32x stopped development didn't bother to move any of the 32x titles onto the Saturn so that point you have made is flimsy at best.
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I never said that it was a bad thing that SEGA did that, just that they handled the tail end of that generation wrongly.
But they were first, on every console since the Mega Drive...so it is, up to a point a correct statement. Disorganisation was a part of it, but look at Sony and Nintendo, who've also took a mis-step in the past so I wouldn't put that down on SEGA alone.
Sega didn't have the sole focus that Nintendo and Sony had. Briefly they had it during the nineties but it all fell apart. The tail end, several game systems they were supporting, an arcade industry to cater for, the expansion into themeparks and rides as well as them dipping into the electronic toy market, was too many things at once.
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Just continued stuff from what the previous president did
Peter Done a lot to push the On-Line side of things and did wonders with the tiny Budget he had left to him.
No shit
Yep . SEGA America did the best with the DC and were sadly letdown by poor sales in Japan and Europe .
Not the first to use the technology which is what i said
I'm on about Consoles . Think like that PC's were the 1st to do almost anything
i forgotten who and then Sega with the Mega modem and later on Seganet for saturn.
Not Built into the consoles and it was X-Band that did the hardware and On-line side of things . So
Weren't you saying that DC dream arena was similar to XBOX LIVE years ago
No . X-Box Arcade was quite like the classic games download system SEGA Japan did for the DC in Japan where users could download classic MD and PC-Eng games and play them on the DC.
Regardless, live wouldn't have happened without some of the things spearheaded by DC online and hEATnet.
MS would have known more about on-line that SEGA given their PC background and the way they bought Netscape out of the game.
32x needed the megadrive to work
Add on yes, but in reality a new system that used little of the MD to get its power
None of the titles would have appeared on the saturn anyway and that's a fact that you keep forgetting
Of course they would have . Looking over how it was SEGA Japan that made the likes of VR Delux , the Saturn beat even part of the 32X and it even had faster SH-2 's . So the same Teams could have made the same games for the more powerful Saturn and it would have helped the Saturn launch
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Sega didn't have the sole focus that Nintendo and Sony had. Briefly they had it during the nineties but it all fell apart. The tail end, several game systems they were supporting, an arcade industry to cater for, the expansion into themeparks and rides as well as them dipping into the electronic toy market, was too many things at once.
I agree with that yeah.
To be fair to them, when you suddenly have success, you want to capitalise on it.
Unfortunately for SEGA, they spread themselves too thin when they had money in their pocket.
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Peter Done a lot to push the On-Line side of things and did wonders with the tiny Budget he had left to him.
Prehaps not enough.
Yep . SEGA America did the best with the DC and were sadly letdown by poor sales in Japan and Europe .
Shame really.
I'm on about Consoles .
Last i checked the Atari 2600 was a console.
Not Built into the consoles and it was X-Band that did the hardware and On-line side of things . So
But not the first consoles to use the tech which is what i stated all along.
No . X-Box Arcade was quite like the classic games download system SEGA Japan did for the DC in Japan where users could download classic MD and PC-Eng games and play them on the DC.
Not quite.
MS would have known more about on-line that SEGA given their PC background and the way they bought Netscape out of the game.
Not in the context for consoles they didn't. They definatly used Sega as a model on how to guide their systems online endevors.
Add on yes, but in reality a new system that used little of the MD to get its power
No it was an add on simple as.
Of course they would have . Looking over how it was SEGA Japan that made the likes of VR Delux , the Saturn beat even part of the 32X and it even had faster SH-2 's . So the same Teams could have made the same games for the more powerful Saturn and it would have helped the Saturn launch
But they didn't and that's the point you can't accept. Most of the games designated for 32x ever moved to the Saturn, because those titles were never intended to be ported in the first place.And that includes the original titles for the add on system.
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Prehaps not enough.
He did all he could with the money (well lack off ) he had left . Sega America were letdown by poor sales in Japan and the DC just being a flop in Europe (after a good start) and SOE alos screwed up any hope of the On-line side of things taking off for the DC in Pal land at least SEGA Japan did try by the Japanese were too in love with the PS brand and Final Fantasy to really care .
Last i checked the Atari 2600 was a console
LOl couldn't play On-line and the Intellivision was the 1st console to offer download games over the network, but that was cable . Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem built in.
But they didn't and that's the point you can't accept.
? With out the 32X they would have been made for the Saturn and that would have added to the Saturn launch line up
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He did all he could with the money (well lack off ) he had left . Sega America were letdown by poor sales in Japan and the DC just being a flop in Europe (after a good start) and SOE alos screwed up any hope of the On-line side of things taking off for the DC in Pal land at least SEGA Japan did try by the Japanese were too in love with the PS brand and Final Fantasy to really care .
not good enough, sorry.
LOl couldn't play On-line and the Intellivision was the 1st console to offer download games over the network, but that was cable . Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem built in.
Not the first system to deliever the concept. keep spinning, you lost, end of argument.
? With out the 32X they would have been made for the Saturn and that would have added to the Saturn launch line up
No it wouldn't. Those games at least the majority of them were never going to get ported on the Saturn. Guess what? They didn't get ported either. Half of Capcom's titles designated for the 32x never moved up to the Saturn and that's even when they started releasing their much cherised arcade packs. Neither did any of this so called arcade port titles from third parties that the 32x "stole" from the saturn made it to the PSX either which further destroys your nonsense hypothesis.
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not good enough,
He tried is best and SEGA America did a far better push with the DC than SEGA Japan (which couldn't even get the launch right) or the baboons at SEGA Europe did that's for sure .
Not the first system to deliever the concept.
Not that would be the likes of the PC.
A 'console' shipping with a 'Modem' built in to allow users to go on-line that would be the Pippin .
Those games at least the majority of them were never going to get ported on the Saturn
? Yeah... Doom wound't come to the Saturn and SOJ wouldn't bring their own games like VR and Star Wars to the Saturn if they were developed for the 32X instead ? Keep it coming
Half of Capcom's titles designated for the 32x never moved up to the Saturn
These games would be ? Most of Japan and the likes of Capcom couldn't have careless about the 32X in truth , not even Treasure or Game Arts would commit to the format.
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He tried is best and SEGA America did a far better push with the DC than SEGA Japan (which couldn't even get the launch right) or the baboons at SEGA Europe did that's for sure .
Didn't do good enough. Simple as.
Not that would be the likes of the PC.
wasn't talking about computers.
A 'console' shipping with a 'Modem' built in to allow users to go on-line that would be the Pippin .
Nope consoles with modem tech appeared well before the pippin. That's what i've always said and shall continue to say. You can keep spinning all you want you got it wrong simply because you never stated the difference and it doesn't make a difference. Modem technology for game systems had existed before the pipsquek came into existance. Its like saying DC was the first system to give people internet options when the tech existed on previous consoles before it.
? Yeah... Doom wound't come to the Saturn and SOJ wouldn't bring their own games like VR and Star Wars to the Saturn if they were developed for the 32X instead ? Keep it coming
What you mean VR the game that was licensed to someone else to do on saturn? Oh yes, the multitude of scheduled games coming for 32x that didn't get shifted onto the Saturn after its demise? Oh yes, and the likes of COSMIC CARNAGE would have really fit well with the saturn. LOL what a laugh! You're blind when it comes to the saturn. Sega had NO intention of bringing the majority of titles that they released or had scheduled for the 32x to appear on the Saturn. That's why it came out on the 32x in the first place. And that's why none of these games appeared on the saturn either. and that includes the likes of capcom, konami and a few others too.
These games would be ? Most of Japan and the likes of Capcom couldn't have careless about the 32X in truth , not even Treasure or Game Arts would commit to the format.
Rubbish, capcom was going to release a few titles like their version of Aliens and predator. But of course you wouldn't remember that.
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Didn't do good enough
SEGA America did amazing , SEGA Japan and Europe screwed the DC up .
wasn't talking about computers
In that case the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.
Nope consoles with modem tech appeared well before the pippin.
Well anyone with the likes of Saturn, Mega Drive , even CDI could tell you that consoles that offered on-line functions long before the DC . Everyone bangs on about the DC being the 1st console to ship with a Modem and on-line functions has standard, when it was the Pippin that done that.
What you mean VR the game that was licensed to someone else to do on saturn
Yes. AM#2 were up to their eyeballs with various Saturn and Arcade projects and the CS Team (that handled 32X VR) were singed up to the task to port Rally to the Saturn. So sadly the game was handled out . Doesn't change with out 32X the CS would have just been given the task to port VR to Saturn if they wasn't a 32X.
Oh yes, and the likes of COSMIC CARNAGE would have really fit well with the saturn. LOL what a laugh! You're blind when it comes to the saturn.
I really don't know what you are rambling about; Only to say the Saturn had its fair share of 2D Vs Fighter both good and bad and Cosmic Carnage, would have just been another in a long line of Saturn Vs Fighters .
That's why it came out on the 32x in the first place.
Most of the 32X games were poor and quite laughable That's why most 32X games never went to the Saturn or the Saturn just had a far better alternative.
capcom was going to release a few titles like their version of Aliens and predator.
1 game and hardly Capcom finest . Capcom made 1 game for the 3DO but everyone knew Capcom didn't really care for the format and the same was true for the 32X. Mind you if those consoles sold in the millions, it would have been different.
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SEGA America did amazing , SEGA Japan and Europe screwed the DC up .
Not amazing enough.
In that case the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.
Not the first to use modem tech which has always been the point I made. Yet you had to argue with me over two pages for you to come to the proper conclusion.
Well anyone with the likes of Saturn, Mega Drive , even CDI could tell you that consoles that offered on-line functions long before the DC . Everyone bangs on about the DC being the 1st console to ship with a Modem and on-line functions has standard, when it was the Pippin that done that.
which brings back to the point that the pippin wasn't the first system to use modem technology.
Yes. AM#2 were up to their eyeballs with various Saturn and Arcade projects and the CS Team (that handled 32X VR) were singed up to the task to port Rally to the Saturn. So sadly the game was handled out . Doesn't change with out 32X the CS would have just been given the task to port VR to Saturn if they wasn't a 32X.
Or more likely that they had no intention to port the game in the first place which is why it was licensed out.
I really don't know what you are rambling about; Only to say the Saturn had its fair share of 2D Vs Fighter both good and bad and Cosmic Carnage, would have just been another in a long line of Saturn Vs Fighters .
Your kidding? You lost all credibility that you had concerning this. What a joke. CC isn't even Saturn standard and never was going to be. Most of the 32x games weren't so with a few exceptions, they were never going to go towards the Saturn, which they didn't. And the only one rambling and spitting nonsense so far has been you.
Most of the 32X games were poor and quite laughable That's why most 32X games never went to the Saturn or the Saturn just had a far better alternative.
You just been arguing that the Saturn would have been the home for 32x games if that add on never happened and now you are saying they weren't good enough to be considered? You just contridicted yourself in your own post.LOL.
1 game and hardly Capcom finest . Capcom made 1 game for the 3DO but everyone knew Capcom didn't really care for the format and the same was true for the 32X. Mind you if those consoles sold in the millions, it would have been different.
Yawn, you just said they weren't considering it now you're backtracking. Capcom just about everyone else wanted to ride the gravy train that was Sega at that time and most third parties didn't even think that the 32x wouldn't succeed that's why many of them did sign up for the system including capcom. In the case of Capcom they wanted to get in on the ground floor after frankly missing out on good sales thanks to the illegal contract that nintendo had them in. So they as well as the other big guns at the time pratically rused to sign with Sega, for the saturn that promised to dominate the next level of systems and an add one that would extend the life of a system userbase.
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Not amazing enough
Well you know only GOD is perfect :)). To be fair SEGA Japan messed up with the Mega Drive too and it was SEGA America and Europe that did the best . Sadly having both Japan and Europe let the side down was too much for Sega America.
Not the first to use modem tech which has always been the point I made
Neither was Atari.
which brings back to the point that the pippin wasn't the first system to use modem technology
Pippin was 1st console to ship with a Modem built in , its fact.
Or more likely that they had no intention to port the game in the first place which is why it was licensed out
Am#2 were too busy to handle the title (just like with MD version) It would have been given out for the CS Team to handle the port and with no 32X to worry about , they 1st 32 bit next gen game would have been VR for the Saturn.
What a joke. CC isn't even Saturn standard and never was going to be
Christ, there's plenty of utter shit 2D Beat them ups on the Saturn. The Street Fighter II the move is crap beyond belief and Battle Monsters laughable and that's just a couple of some of the shit . There's always crap and poor games in a new system life .
you just said they weren't considering it now you're backtracking
You said you make a list and produced 1 game lol and it was Hardly Capcom's finest hour . I put to you Capcom 32 bit plans were all for the PS and Saturn and it showed it their output , very, very early on.
In the case of Capcom they wanted to get in on the ground floor after frankly missing out on good sales thanks to the illegal contract that nintendo had them in.
That deal was done in the NES days, not that it matters Capcom got around that by letting NEC and SEGA handle the ports In-House for their 16 bit/8 bit consoles and more so Capcom even handled SF II port for the MD In-House even though SF II was meant to be exclusive to the Nintendo and Snes .
Capcom and most of the Japanese studios didn't care for the 32X at all
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Well you know only GOD is perfect :)). To be fair SEGA Japan messed up with the Mega Drive too and it was SEGA America and Europe that did the best . Sadly having both Japan and Europe let the side down was too much for Sega America.
Oh yes dont get me wrong the DC showed signs of improvement but the people put in charge of the time were nincompoops. Katz and Kalinske made the genesis successful half the time than those other buffoons did. They even managed to make the master system sell a little longer in the states and that in itself was a miracle. Each divison has to get credit to what they did for each system's era. Sega europe effectivly made sure the MS made it successful but made sure it lasted longer than it did. SOA for making the MD a hit. SOJ for actually getting the japanese mainstream interested in Sega products with the Saturn. But the DC no one did a good enough job. There was just as much waste with SOA handling with the DC as there was success. I will say this that there attempt to revive old SOA ip was commendable and bringing the PC titles to DC was a small milestone, a project that was meant to happen with the saturn and Segasoft. But the people in charge weren't up to the task. Shame as you had the teams in place in SOA, you had the dev talent with SOJ they just didn't have the leadership to focus it. In fact one could say the games released for that era happened in spite of the leadership and not because of it.
Neither was Atari.
Beg to differ.
Pippin was 1st console to ship with a Modem built in , its fact.
Not the first to use modem technology. That's what i said and always had said. Regardless where the modem is in or outside the system. Keep backtracking, you lost and you know it.
Am#2 were too busy to handle the title (just like with MD version) It would have been given out for the CS Team to handle the port and with no 32X to worry about , they 1st 32 bit next gen game would have been VR for the Saturn.
Which kinda puts a blow to your point then. Obviously if the 32x was nothing then SOJ wouldn't bother using one of their top teams to port a title for an add on system, you'd expect it to happen for the saturn.
Christ, there's plenty of utter shit 2D Beat them ups on the Saturn. The Street Fighter II the move is crap beyond belief and Battle Monsters laughable and that's just a couple of some of the shit . There's always crap and poor games in a new system life .
For christ sakes, Battle monsters graphics looked way way much better than CC. Some of the 32x titles just looked like superior SNES graphics while half of the saturn launch titles despite their buggy nonsense looked much better(apart from VF) but that looked richer in the CGI department than its 32x counterpart. There was no way that Sega would ever used the 32x games as launch titles for Saturn.
You said you make a list and produced 1 game lol and it was Hardly Capcom's finest hour . I put to you Capcom 32 bit plans were all for the PS and Saturn and it showed it their output , very, very early on.
What list? i never mentioned a list for 32x? The list i was talking about was about how many games SOJ released for their systems and that the saturn had the lowest compared to the MD and DC. So stop lying. And keep using that nonsense about PSX, fact is all the major third parties commited to 32x but didn't release a game when Sega royally screwed up things.
That deal was done in the NES days, not that it matters Capcom got around that by letting NEC and SEGA handle the ports In-House for their 16 bit/8 bit consoles and more so Capcom even handled SF II port for the MD In-House even though SF II was meant to be exclusive to the Nintendo and Snes .
Capcom and most of the Japanese studios didn't care for the 32X at all
I don't need a history lesson. And your point is moot since the profits went to the companies that took the license and not to Capcom. Which is why when Capcom and many others was free of that contract they wanted to exploit their IP on other systems as soon as possible and considering at the time the Sega brand was a hot property which also cornered the market and managed to make a cd rom add on relatively successful across the world, there was no reason in many of the third parties minds that this wouldn't be repeated again with the 32x. But again you'd have to actually had been there, read the reports at the time and the press statements concerning the situation to know that. The reason is everything you say is in hindsight and not from a first person experience of the situation of the time. Trying to create the impression that the 32x was a bomb from the get go when it wasn't is wrong. Trying to make out that no one was interested in the add on for a system that had a large percentage of the biggest games market is wrong. Business is business and at that time it was good for business to deal with Sega who at the period showed no signs of slowing down. But of course things went awry and it did go wrong. But that came afterward when things were already was in place.
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If you guys could give each other a slight electrical jolt every time you counter each other's points, I think we'd soon be smelling burning electrodes
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Katz and Kalinske made the genesis successful half the time than those other buffoons did.
Actually the DC sold way better in its 1st year than the Genesis did but there was a world of difference for all sorts of reasons . In the DC days SEGA was losing $200 million a year , selling the DC at a huge loss and trying to take on the might of not just Nintendo, but also SONY and then even MS, never mind the difference in the cost and size of the Teams needed to make DC games
Not the first to use modem technology. That's what i said and always had said
For the last time !. Pippin was the 1st console where with no add-on's, no additional peripherals, no extra subs you could enter the world of On-Line straight out of the box (the same was true with the DC) Everything you needed to go on-line was has standard in the box of the console .
That is the difference
Obviously if the 32x was nothing then SOJ wouldn't bother using one of their top teams to port a title for an add on system
It blows away your rubbish that SOJ didn't help SOA and worked against them, they only let the 32X have one its best teams make a laugh title for it
The reasons are quite obvious. SEGA Japan knew it had AM#2 working on Saturn Daytona USA and SOA needed help getting software ready for the 32X. So let the CS team handle the port of VR to the 32X .
Battle monsters graphics looked way way much better than CC
It plays like shit and if you think that Street Fighter the movie looks much better than CC then look again . Both not only look like shit they play like shit
There was no way that Sega would ever used the 32x games as launch titles for Saturn
Doom, Star Wars, VR Delux would have done nicely.
What list? i never mentioned a list for 32x?
You said a 'few titles' which is more than 1 and so far all we got from you is 1 title .
And keep using that nonsense about PSX, fact is all the major third parties commited to 32x
I deal in facts and Capcom were committed to the PS from day one and every developer around the world gets developer kits for new systems , that's a huge difference from making games for the format .
I don't need a history lesson
Well then you should know that in the mid 1990's Capcom broke away from the Nintendo lock out deal .
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You could say it started as far back as Sega C.D. That was a tiny bit of a flop, but I can't blame them for going the CD ROM route. It's where all the game companies were going at the time and any business could see there was some potential there.
Nope, if you want to see the exact time when Sega fucked up so royal it killed them in the hardware market, look no further than the 32X and the horrid launch of the Saturn. Instead of focusing all their efforts on the Saturn, Sega decided to do this half-assed in-between of a Genesis add-on. It got ZERO support and died within a year, but those who did buy it probably felt screwed when the Saturn was launched less than a year later.
With the Saturn, they didn't even give the system enough time for hype and marketing. Just BAM! Announce it's available now right during E3 thus giving Sony plenty of time to properly market their new system. Not only that, it pissed off third parties that were planning games for the system's launch and since most 3rd parties were unaware, there was little games out the entire summer it was launched. Worst. Gaming mistake. Ever.
Despite how awesome the Dreamcast was, these back to back bombs is what killed any hype for that system. Not to mention Sony's Playstation brand became huge due to the Saturn's failure and the fact that the PS2 came with the cheapest DVD player at the time. Even the PS2' shitty launch titles didn't keep people away from buying the system.
In short, Sega's complete fuck up of the Saturn let Sony succeed and make Playstation a big brand name which in turn helped kill the Dreamcast. Once Sega was bought by Sammy and went third party, the magic they had for making big IP's and quality games died for a very long time (with the exception of Yakuza and Valkeria Chronicles). Only in the past 4 years or so have they started to turn things around with their software. However, once again their bad past is hurting their current present. Great Sega games like binary Domain suffer because of it. And just when Sega was finally getting more respect among fans, Aliens CM happened. UGH!
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Actually the DC sold way better in its 1st year than the Genesis did but there was a world of difference for all sorts of reasons . In the DC days SEGA was losing $200 million a year , selling the DC at a huge loss and trying to take on the might of not just Nintendo, but also SONY and then even MS, never mind the difference in the cost and size of the Teams needed to make DC games
And what became the more succesful? And the odds was more against Sega at the time of the genesis than it was with the DC. Leadership counts and SOA like all of Sega at that time had poor leadership across the board.
For the last time !. Pippin was the 1st console where with no add-on's, no additional peripherals, no extra subs you could enter the world of On-Line straight out of the box (the same was true with the DC) Everything you needed to go on-line was has standard in the box of the console .
That is the difference
No. i said consoles using modem tech. I have ALWAYS said that. That covers the whole spectrum. It makes no difference who or how they , it the fact remains that consoles was using modem tech BEFORE and i repeat BEFORE the pippin. Using your insane logic its like saying the DC is the first system to use online tech when that tech was available for game systems before the DC was even a sparkle in anyone's eye. So for the last time be quiet on this, if it was n't for the previous systems using modem tech you wouldn't have gotten a system that ended up packing it in the system itself. It wasn't the first to use the technology and never was it just evolved from it like the current systems have evolved(stolen) ideas started by Sega. And you call yourself an expert.LOL what a joke.
It blows away your rubbish that SOJ didn't help SOA and worked against them, they only let the 32X have one its best teams make a laugh title for it
No it actually blows your rubbish about the 32x being all SOA's idea. Which as anyone who actually knows these things it never was. The SOA vs SOJ debacle happened during the Saturn era not the 32x. Didn't you know that? But of course not surprised that you get confused and mixed up about common knowledge info.
The reasons are quite obvious. SEGA Japan knew it had AM#2 working on Saturn Daytona USA and SOA needed help getting software ready for the 32X. So let the CS team handle the port of VR to the 32X .
Which strengthens the point that if they were even interested in using any 32x titles they would't have bothered to farm it out and license, the game was not done on a second party basis but licensed out and published by another company.
It plays like shit and if you think that Street Fighter the movie looks much better than CC then look again . Both not only look like shit they play like shit
Playing and looking is totally different things but of course not surprised that you can't tell the difference. Considering you keep telling me how superior the saturn is and all you think BM actually looks comparable to a game on a system that has low resolution/colours and everything else? LOL!
Doom, Star Wars, VR Delux would have done nicely.
Never designated for the saturn which is why SW and VR came out on that system.
You said a 'few titles' which is more than 1 and so far all we got from you is 1 title .
Yes from Sega, capcom EA Konami Acclaim and several others that announced upcoming titles for the 32x which was announced around the summer. But obviously the 32x was mismanaged and they all moved on to saturn but none of the titles announced moved to the saturn or PSX as far as the third parties are concerned. This is common knowledge to anyone around at the time so you supposed to know it. Not suprising that you don't.
I deal in facts
No you try to sideline the issue when you can't answer any question given to you.
and Capcom were committed to the PS from day one and every developer around the world gets developer kits for new systems , that's a huge difference from making games for the format
They were also commited to 32x and the saturn. They were part of a company who at that time had a bigger rep than Sony did in the games market. But again you'd have to have been there to understand that.
Well then you should know that in the mid 1990's Capcom broke away from the Nintendo lock out deal .
Funny because i already eluded to that. Again I know you get confused but i'll spell it out. AGAIN. When Capcom got out of the deal they would have wanted to exploit their IPs as well as they could. their games that they licensed out to Sega did well on the MD and they would have been happy to sign up with Sega on the new platforms they were peddling. That included the 32x. Just because it ultimatly failed did not mean they didn't sign up for the system initially. Remember lots of companies at one time sign up for platforms that can go bust when it reaches an open market. Sega at the time was the strong and dominant competitor who wasn't failing. So nearly anyone wanted a piece of that pie.
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You could say it started as far back as Sega C.D. That was a tiny bit of a flop, but I can't blame them for going the CD ROM route. It's where all the game companies were going at the time and any business could see there was some potential there.
Actually the Mega CD is probably the more succesful cd rom add on at that time considering it was available in all the major markets and sold quite decently. It was far from a flop. The way Sega approced some of the games and schedules was a bit of a flop but the system itself despite it all did quite well for Sega.
Nope, if you want to see the exact time when Sega fucked up so royal it killed them in the hardware market, look no further than the 32X and the horrid launch of the Saturn. Instead of focusing all their efforts on the Saturn, Sega decided to do this half-assed in-between of a Genesis add-on. It got ZERO support and died within a year, but those who did buy it probably felt screwed when the Saturn was launched less than a year later.
The 32x didn't get zero support, for an add on it did quite well at launch. It was the Saturn's launch that screwed things up mainly because Sega couldn't anticipate the competition from Sony and wasn't prepared for it. Sega of america was forced to abandon plans and rush things quite literally when they realised how serious the competition was.
With the Saturn, they didn't even give the system enough time for hype and marketing. Just BAM! Announce it's available now right during E3 thus giving Sony plenty of time to properly market their new system. Not only that, it pissed off third parties that were planning games for the system's launch and since most 3rd parties were unaware, there was little games out the entire summer it was launched. Worst. Gaming mistake. Ever.
Yep. The screw up was that sega had always planned to market the saturn as a more high end machine which was why it was originally priced a bit high. The months preceding the saturn's launch was that it was going to be quite expensive and Kalinske seemed to be going with the idea that the system was going to compete with the 3do instead of it being an out and out games system. So the entire approch as far as SOA was concerned with the saturn was wrong from day one. They were focusing on the idea of multimedia when Sony focused on the new style 3d gaming which Sega defined in the arcades with VR and DAYTONA. Sony didn't really defeat Sega as much as it was Sega themselves that defeated Sega. The point of the 32x was to be a bridge between the megadrive and Saturn for those who wouldn't get the system due to the price and to prolong the megadrive's lifespan. Their second mistake was the 32x's price for an add on wasn't competitive enough to justify everyone getting it. despite the launch the system within a year and a half sales dropped off significantly. Also the plans started to change and evaporate when the saturn became the sole focus in order to compete with the competition that sony was bringing and the third parties followed suit. pissed off with Sega after commiting to the platform and it got worse with what happened during the saturn run.
Despite how awesome the Dreamcast was, these back to back bombs is what killed any hype for that system. Not to mention Sony's Playstation brand became huge due to the Saturn's failure and the fact that the PS2 came with the cheapest DVD player at the time. Even the PS2' shitty launch titles didn't keep people away from buying the system.
Why would it? people were sold on the brand name and if its strong enough, they'll flock to it regardless of how crap it may initially seem. Sony of course managed to improve on the quality of titles but also by the time of the PS2 launch we had a different type of gamer than the ones that had previously existed during the genesis/SNES era. We had an audience that seemed to think it was sony that made gaming cool, sonythat made games for adults(despite that being the case through previous generations0 sony that made gaming mainstream(which was never true) and whatever lies sony started peddling. it inded was a hellish era to be a gamer surrounded by that propagandist nonsense.
In short, Sega's complete fuck up of the Saturn let Sony succeed and make Playstation a big brand name which in turn helped kill the Dreamcast. Once Sega was bought by Sammy and went third party, the magic they had for making big IP's and quality games died for a very long time (with the exception of Yakuza and Valkeria Chronicles). Only in the past 4 years or so have they started to turn things around with their software. However, once again their bad past is hurting their current present. Great Sega games like binary Domain suffer because of it. And just when Sega was finally getting more respect among fans, Aliens CM happened. UGH!
Yeah, but i think the problem with Sega and their ip magic existed before the takeover because the consumer market divison focused on creating mainly games for japan and not focusing on creating the usual sega games that had a mass market appeal like they use to.Oddly enough they did this during the Saturn era when the saturn was popular in japan. After the Dc they reverted to type and focused on the saturn IPs that proved to be succesful before. it also didn't help mind you that the games that they were planning to western appeal got canned because of several setbacks. The game they were planning for the xbox/ps2 might have been their first proper hit. The problem as you have stated is the management. While the things have changed within sega as a software company the practices of the management hasn't. The only time when Sega "kicked ass" was when they had a management team who was willing to take the risks as their software divisions always did with the type of game they produced. There's no mistake that when sega had a maverick leader which suited the teams maverick attitude to gaming that they quickly became the dominate video games company. The moment they lost all that it quickly melted away.Its a shame they haven't been able to find a maverick or strong leader. This is what the company was founded on after all with Rosen.
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And what became the more succesful?
Well when your parent company is not losing money and allows you to spend millions and millions on PR you can do wonders . SEGA America spend over $30 million on pushing Sonic 3 alone (just one game), SEGA Europe spend over £64 million pushing the Mega Drive in 1994/5 and yet SEGA America were expected to sell the DC to America for its life time with $100 million for it's total PR budget (for all the games and the console)
With what they had SEGA America did wonders with the DC, you'll find .
No. i said consoles using modem tech.
If it was modem tech I wouldn't even be on about the Pippin or DC >:(. Since even the Mega Drive had modem tech . I was on about standard (as you know full well) and the 1st console that allowed its users to go On-Line straight out of the box (with no extra hardware or software) was the Pippin.
The SOA vs SOJ debacle happened during the Saturn era not the 32x
Where have you been mate ? The main people behind the 32X (Joe Miller, Scott Bayless) have all now given Interviews and all confirm that SEGA America and Japan worked well together even in the Saturn days .
strengthens the point that if they were even interested in using any 32x titles they would't have bothered to farm it out and license, the game was not done on a second party basis but licensed out and published by another company
?
The likes of Stellar Assault says hello .
Considering you keep telling me how superior the saturn is and all you think BM actually looks comparable to a game on a system that has low resolution/colours and everything else
What is BM for starters and on the one hand you say the 32X can't complete with the Saturn and on the other you always talk about VF looking better on the 32X .
You're all over the shop
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Well when your parent company is not losing money and allows you to spend millions and millions on PR you can do wonders . SEGA America spend over $30 million on pushing Sonic 3 alone (just one game), SEGA Europe spend over £64 million pushing the Mega Drive in 1994/5 and yet SEGA America were expected to sell the DC to America for its life time with $100 million for it's total PR budget (for all the games and the console)
With what they had SEGA America did wonders with the DC, you'll find
.That was after the fact that they made the MD successful. Were talking about the first two years which you got to make it matter and moore and his predecessor simply failed in that.
If it was modem tech I wouldn't even be on about the Pippin or DC >:(. Since even the Mega Drive had modem tech . I was on about standard (as you know full well) and the 1st console that allowed its users to go On-Line straight out of the box (with no extra hardware or software) was the Pippin.
No i mentioned the first console to use modem tech. You got it wrong and can't admit it.
Where have you been mate ? The main people behind the 32X (Joe Miller, Scott Bayless) have all now given Interviews and all confirm that SEGA America and Japan worked well together even in the Saturn days .
The project was always initiated by SOJ it was never SOA's personal baby as you have tried to claim numerous times. Their involvement was simply down to the fact that the USA was the biggest market so obviously they needed SOA's input for that and the Saturn. Things changed when they got jazzed by the success of the saturn.
The likes of Stellar Assault says hello .
And your point is what?
What is BM for starters and on the one hand you say the 32X can't complete with the Saturn and on the other you always talk about VF looking better on the 32X .
Compared to a buggy VF saturn game it does. But the textures and everything is obviously richer because of what the saturn was able to do. its not rocket science.
You're all over the shop
I'm not the one who mistaken the pippin as the first system to have a modem when clearly it wasn't and then backtrack what was said by saying"i meant included inside". its just another example that you haven't a clue what you are on about and can only go by things from hindsight or what you have obviously read in an inaccurate retro games mag.
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That was after the fact that they made the MD successful
SEGA had plenty of cash in those days and the cost of 16 bit software and hardware was totally different to that of DC hardware and software . If SOA had been given granted Mega Drive levels of PR money they would have done a even better job , sure they made a few mistakes but they did more right than wrong , incredible given they had just $100 million to do it all with.
No i mentioned the first console to use modem tech.
No quite and as you well know I said 'standard'.
The project was always initiated by SOJ it was never SOA's personal baby as you have tried to claim numerous times.
No I've always said after SEGA dropped plans for the Giga Drive and the Jupiter was the time the 32X/Mars idea should have been canned . SEGA America though it was a goer and took over the project while SOJ went full hog with the Saturn .
And your point is what
A 32X game brought to the Saturn and published by SEGA Japan
Compared to a buggy VF saturn game it does.
Clipping was the only issues with Saturn VF, but that's launch software; it not liking Sonic Adv didn't have its own clipping issues . That's what happens when the Team doesn't enough time . But just compare VF Remix and VF II to VF on the Saturn, or Sonic Adv II to Sonic Adv on the DC. To see what having more time does for the developers .
But the textures and everything is obviously richer because of what the saturn was able to do
Saturn VF blows away 32X VF and its nothing to do with textures since Model 1 didn't do any textures in the 1st place . Saturn VF is just handling far more polygons for starers, running in a higher resolution and with far better sound effect and brilliant CD music . That's what no being a Mega Drive add-on does for you .
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SEGA had plenty of cash in those days and the cost of 16 bit software and hardware was totally different to that of DC hardware and software . If SOA had been given granted Mega Drive levels of PR money they would have done a even better job , sure they made a few mistakes but they did more right than wrong , incredible given they had just $100 million to do it all with.
some of us tried telling you that in the NEC/Sega debate and you claimed NEC had more money to splash with while ignoring the reality that their games division didn't. and if you really think sega didn't have the money to splash with for the dc launch, which they clearly did then you are more off your rocker than i thought.
No quite and as you well know I said 'standard'.
nope you didn't. end of.
No I've always said after SEGA dropped plans for the Giga Drive and the Jupiter was the time the 32X/Mars idea should have been canned . SEGA America though it was a goer and took over the project while SOJ went full hog with the Saturn .
no you never. you blamed soa for creating the 32x when the facts estabilshed suggested otherwise. dont try to change what you said now.
A 32X game brought to the Saturn and published by SEGA Japan
you don't say.funny i seem to remember saying the majority of 32x werent designated to saturn. you see to have a majority you need a minority. simple maths actually. remember that. it doesn't prove anything apart from my original point.
Clipping was the only issues with Saturn VF, but that's launch software; it not liking Sonic Adv didn't have its own clipping issues . That's what happens when the Team doesn't enough time . But just compare VF Remix and VF II to VF on the Saturn, or Sonic Adv II to Sonic Adv on the DC. To see what having more time does for the developers .
vf had more issues than just clipping it was a bug eyed mess. but of course i wouldn't expect someone with their saturn
blinders would say anything less.
Saturn VF blows away 32X VF and its nothing to do with textures since Model 1 didn't do any textures in the 1st place . Saturn VF is just handling far more polygons for starers, running in a higher resolution and with far better sound effect and brilliant CD music . That's what no being a Mega Drive add-on does for you .
yet you seem to think that a 32x game like cyberbrawl/cc could fit in with the saturn and that battle monsters didn't look better than it/ keep changing the argument for your own purposes.not suprising really...
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nope you didn't. end of.
I did
Re: Where did it really go wrong in the sega console era
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 10:39:00 PM »
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SEGA used Windows CE technology and originally, Microsoft was supposed to supply an online service for SEGA, but they screwed SEGA and decided to make their own console. Peter Moore was in full control of Sega of America and he basically screwed SEGA as well,
So wrong on so many levels . MS provided a OS developement system for a platform, which is what MS do (being a software corp) and Peter Moore and SOA did more for the SEGA Dreamcast than Japan and Europe; It was though divsions that let the side down with poor hardware and software sales and it was SOJ that pulled the plug, not SEGA America
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, SEGA was indeed the first console to make online gaming mainstream
The list of on-line games for the DC isn't that big mate , and long before the DC the likes of Saturn was talking console gamers on the Web and the DC wasn't even the 1st console to ship with a Modem as standard : that honour belongs to the Pippin
End of Line ...
some of us tried telling you that in the NEC/Sega debate and you claimed NEC had more money to splash with while ignoring the reality that their games division didn't
NEC had more money that SONY back in the 90's NEC is and was massive. Anway one hundred million dollars to lauch a console and maintain the PR for over 2 years isn't that much money for the USA at all. SEGA Europe used to spend 64 million pounds a year on pushing the Mega Drive , Atari spend some 40 to 60 million on pushing the Jag and SEGA America spent over 30 million dollars on pushing one game alone with Sonic III.
So what SOA did with it tiny budget for over 2 years was quite a feat
no you never. you blamed soa for creating the 32x when the facts estabilshed suggested otherwise.
My stance on the 32X has never changed at all .
funny i seem to remember saying the majority of 32x werent designated to saturn
Like usual, you tried to be clever and have been caught out . Also you being the SEGA man should know that the likes of AMOK, Virtual Golf started life as 32X games before being moved up to the Saturn .
vf had more issues than just clipping it was a bug eyed mess
C'Mom then list the bugs (other than clipping )
yet you seem to think that a 32x game like cyberbrawl
Oh dear we've remembered that Model 1 didn't handle any texture mapping ?. Never mind, there was plenty of poor looking games on the Saturn like with Street Fighter the Movie or Gale Race ; both of which wouldn't look out of place on the 32X. Not that it matters VF on the Saturn completely blows away the 32X version
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There is nothing they can do about it now, but I will share what I think went wrong. Instead of making add ons, they should have just made a new console. Instead of the Dreamcast's hardware, they should have waited to produce it in the late 2000s with better hardware. All the other companies waited until very recently to develope new consoles.
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I did
End of Line ...
Talking to yourself again? LOL!
I dont see what you're pointing out. nothing to do with what you were discussing about modems...
NEC had more money that SONY back in the 90's NEC is and was massive. Anway one hundred million dollars to lauch a console and maintain the PR for over 2 years isn't that much money for the USA at all. SEGA Europe used to spend 64 million pounds a year on pushing the Mega Drive , Atari spend some 40 to 60 million on pushing the Jag and SEGA America spent over 30 million dollars on pushing one game alone with Sonic III.
And your point was sega didn't have the money back then despite being one of the large operators getting into the console market. NEC is a large company but their games consumer division isn't and it never had the money to take on Sega internationally. A smaller company who had more of a warchest to play around with compared to a division in a larger company who didn't since they would be limited to the funds they are allowed to access because of the budget that would exist for NEC and what they give to all their divisons overall.
So what SOA did with it tiny budget for over 2 years was quite a feat
so you say.
My stance on the 32X has never changed at all .
Not according to jonboy and anyone else who has seen your comments on the subject.
Like usual, you tried to be clever and have been caught out . Also you being the SEGA man should know that the likes of AMOK, Virtual Golf started life as 32X games before being moved up to the Saturn
What part of minority don't you understand? minority. for a minority to exist there has to be an MAJORITY. The FACT that most 32x games didn't weren't even designated to even exist without the add on indicates that they were never going to become saturn titles or any other 32bit console titles. i haven't been caught out at anything because i don't need to lie. Unlike yourself.
C'Mom then list the bugs (other than clipping )
I've done so years ago. And the fact that you dont know and cant see it speaks volumes..
Oh dear we've remembered that Model 1 didn't handle any texture mapping ?. Never mind, there was plenty of poor looking games on the Saturn like with Street Fighter the Movie or Gale Race ; both of which wouldn't look out of place on the 32X. Not that it matters VF on the Saturn completely blows away the 32X version
Oh dear are you losing your memory? Seems like you are. for someone who claims that the saturn was the beast of a system you seem to forget that even the poor looking games would look better than a system that was an add on for a console that was limited in its processing and color palette. or can't you count? VF saturn's buggy version just didn't compare to the excellent job on the 32x version. Now we know you are so blinded by the saturn so much that you have to change historical sega facts to suit your little fantasy that the saturn was an important system when it doesn't even blip on most sega fan's radars outside of japan and the hard sega creed but regardless of that VF was a huge disapointment for a system that SHOULD have done better. but we always keep making excuses for it wont we?
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There is nothing they can do about it now, but I will share what I think went wrong. Instead of making add ons, they should have just made a new console. Instead of the Dreamcast's hardware, they should have waited to produce it in the late 2000s with better hardware. All the other companies waited until very recently to develope new consoles.
if sega did that then we'd wont be enjoying the type of games and tech for consoles now. Like i said the 32x was a good idea but executed wrong. if sega wanted to guarantee the saturn in the west and not lose the MD market they should have created a Powerbase converter style system for the saturn which would have meant that they could have still kept the MD market going and bring those users to the saturn.
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I dont see what you're pointing out.
The list of on-line games for the DC isn't that big mate , and long before the DC the likes of Saturn was talking console gamers on the Web and the DC wasn't even the 1st console to ship with a Modem as standard : that honour belongs to the Pippin
So sorry I was talking about a console that shipped with a Modem has standard.
And your point was sega didn't have the money back then despite being one of the large operators getting into the console market
SEGA were making massive losses in 1998 and 1999 so money was tight and an issue . Launching a console in the USA and giving the PR Team $100 dollars to push that system and its games for a period of 2 years isn't that much money in the grand scheme.
So with what they had, SOA did brilliant really .
Not according to jonboy
I've never ever changed my stance on the 32X at all. It has always been a waste of space and a utterly pointless idea imo
The FACT that most 32x games didn't weren't even designated to even exist without the add on indicates that they were never going to become saturn titles
? . Lots of games will get push up to new consoles . Shenmue Sonic Adv both meant to the Saturn titles . Pikmin III meant to be a Cube title . Story Of Thor II meant to be a Mega Drive title , Kameo meant to be Cube, then Xbox title before ending up on the 360
It happens
I've done so years ago.
No you haven't . List the bugs in Saturn VF
for someone who claims that the saturn was the beast of a system you seem to forget that even the poor looking games would look better than a system that was an add on for a console that was limited in its processing and color palette.
No matter the power of the system would can have plenty of crap looking games for it. Gale Racer would have looked out of place on the 32X. But that what happens with new system, new tools to learn and a mega tight development deadline to hit
VF saturn's buggy version just didn't compare to the excellent job on the 32x version
You still can't list the bugs and anyone will know this looks and sounds better
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Q9DGMXFEA
than this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH8f_soV6lQ
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After Genesis, East and West Sega butted heads on everything. Right there is a huge recipe for disaster. BUT, the Sega CD didn't live up to the hype. 32X (or any add-on) carries a stigma of, "don't expect it to be as good as a new system), then the Saturn was barley progammable to most. Dreamcast was a fresh start...but the damage was done. When Sega announced the Deamcast was being halted, I remember almost vomiting.
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I learned of the Dreamcast being halted on X-Play. I can not look at this man's face without getting angry:
(http://cdn1337.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/adam-sessler-on-like-dkong.jpg)
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Funny how I just wrote a dreamcast article about the modem changing gaming.
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So sorry I was talking about a console that shipped with a Modem has standard.
I wasn't and you know that. Keep covering your tracks.
SEGA were making massive losses in 1998 and 1999 so money was tight and an issue . Launching a console in the USA and giving the PR Team $100 dollars to push that system and its games for a period of 2 years isn't that much money in the grand scheme.
So with what they had, SOA did brilliant really .
Sega didn't launch the Genesis during the late nineties did they. And if we focus on your argument by less money then the blame goes on to the incompetence of the management which is a point i always said about the DC era. Because you had two idiotic people in the form of stolar and Green the DC was always doomed to fail in the US. Compare that to the talents of Kalinske and his predecessor Katz who helped make Genesis into a succesful games system and turn Sega into a household name. They both had great software to build their base from but only one of them had the will to make the system they had to launch into a hit. Its worse when you think that the DC had stronger launch titles and a great depth of great titles than the genesis had in its first two years and those bozos still failed.
I've never ever changed my stance on the 32X at all. It has always been a waste of space and a utterly pointless idea imo
Yes you did. Keep trying to blame SOA for its creation and not pinpointing it to SOJ who was ALWAYS responsible for its concept. You then flipflopped on it then changed back. I didn't mention whether you liked the 32x either.
? . Lots of games will get push up to new consoles . Shenmue Sonic Adv both meant to the Saturn titles . Pikmin III meant to be a Cube title . Story Of Thor II meant to be a Mega Drive title , Kameo meant to be Cube, then Xbox title before ending up on the 360
?Yet most of the 32x games didn't. You only have ports of a 32x on the saturn. No game starting as a 32xtitle appeared as a saturn game instead.
No you haven't . List the bugs in Saturn VF
Yes i have. And its well known at the time and even now. So keep trolling the fact that Saturn VF was perfect when anyone who played the game and reviewed it at that period in the US criticised the game for being a buggy mess.
No matter the power of the system would can have plenty of crap looking games for it. Gale Racer would have looked out of place on the 32X. But that what happens with new system, new tools to learn and a mega tight development deadline to hit
So you agree then? Finally! But they wouldn't look like a glorified SNES game which is what cosmic carnage looked like on the 32x for whatever reason.
You still can't list the bugs and anyone will know this looks and sounds better
Yes manipulated YT pix prove your point. I've listed it ages ago. So stop trolling and move on.
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Keep covering your tracks.
Go back and read my 1st post in the thread
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 10:39:00 pm »
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SEGA used Windows CE technology and originally, Microsoft was supposed to supply an online service for SEGA, but they screwed SEGA and decided to make their own console. Peter Moore was in full control of Sega of America and he basically screwed SEGA as well,
So wrong on so many levels . MS provided a OS developement system for a platform, which is what MS do (being a software corp) and Peter Moore and SOA did more for the SEGA Dreamcast than Japan and Europe; It was though divsions that let the side down with poor hardware and software sales and it was SOJ that pulled the plug, not SEGA America
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, SEGA was indeed the first console to make online gaming mainstream
The list of on-line games for the DC isn't that big mate , and long before the DC the likes of Saturn was talking console gamers on the Web and the DC wasn't even the 1st console to ship with a Modem as standard : that honour belongs to the Pippin
So in my 1st post in this thread I was on about a console that shipped with a Modem has standard . And that honour does indeed belong with the Pippin.
Sega didn't launch the Genesis during the late nineties
Nope when they did launch the Mega Drive in Japan and America though - SEGA had no money worries , had plenty of cash in the bank . 1998 SEGA was reported losses over $400 Million and then trying to launch a console in the USA with less just $100 for a couple of years (when SOA was use to spending $34 million on pushing just one Sonic game) It wasn't a good place and so what SOA did was really good .
Keep trying to blame SOA for its creation and not pinpointing it to SOJ
Yes that's because it was . SOJ may well have started the idea but SEGA America developed the final 32X and its custom VDP and that was confirmed by Scot Bayless & Joe Miller when SOJ turned their back on the 32X and Jupiter and went Gun-Ho with the Saturn .
Yet most of the 32x games didn't
That's becasue a lot were rubbish .
No game starting as a 32xtitle appeared as a saturn game instead
Core's Virtual Golf started life out has a 32X title (where it was called Scotish Open) , so did their Shellshock . Amok started life out has a 32X title .
But they wouldn't look like a glorified SNES game which is what cosmic carnage looked like on the 32x for whatever reason.
? They were some Saturn games that looked worse than a Mega Drive or Mega CD game . Hell they were some intro's on the Saturn than had smaller windows and more grain in the FMV than Mega CD games . So no matter the poor of the system if the Team aren't up to it or don't have enough time they'll be poor results .
Yes manipulated YT pix prove your point.
No I just posted the game running on the systems and all in Youtube piss poor format . The difference you seen when playing both games in Scart on ones CRT are even more apparent the Saturn versions kills the 32X for Gfx and Sound . And other than clipping you still can't list an issue or Bug which says it all .
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Go back and read my 1st post in the thread
No need to.
So in my 1st post in this thread I was on about a console that shipped with a Modem has standard . And that honour does indeed belong with the Pippin.
If that was the point of the conversation but it wasn't, It was when modem tech first started and that honour belongs with atari.
Nope when they did launch the Mega Drive in Japan and America though - SEGA had no money worries , had plenty of cash in the bank . 1998 SEGA was reported losses over $400 Million and then trying to launch a console in the USA with less just $100 for a couple of years (when SOA was use to spending $34 million on pushing just one Sonic game) It wasn't a good place and so what SOA did was really good .
Really? Yet they were up against a games Juggernaut like nintendo, the japanese management was balking at the idea of the money needed for certain software and they weren't even sure that they would entice let alone break into the american mainstream. There's no point mentioning what came after the success, the point is that they had to make it succesful in the first place when ALL the odds were against them. You can point out money problem BS all you like but if SOJ didn't think that they couldn't overcome them they wouldn't have bothered with the DC let alone launch it in america in the first place. ::)
Yes that's because it was . SOJ may well have started the idea but SEGA America developed the final 32X and its custom VDP and that was confirmed by Scot Bayless & Joe Miller when SOJ turned their back on the 32X and Jupiter and went Gun-Ho with the Saturn .
SOJ started the idea and they developed it and launched it in japan. you can twist history all you like but the simple matter is that SOJ at that time would have followed SOA lead because they were the ones responsible for the majority of sega's profits. Of course they would have had the lead for the 32x because the USA was sega's biggest market at that time. They were meant to take the lead with the saturn until the launch became more succesful than they had predicted for japan. But during that period SOJ was desperate enough to even adopt the SOA campaign style for the 32x and saturn launchs in japan, something that SOJ had hardly done before. So dont give out this 32x nonsense that the americans invented it(as you have claimed) or articles claiming otherwise because there's enough contridictions there as well, that the japanese were never intrested in it(as history contradicts this alone).Your acting like a disgruntled fanboy who blames the wrong people because his fave system didn't become more popular than the previous one. live with it, it happened.Move on for gods sake.
That's becasue a lot were rubbish .
So was many of the saturn titles in its launch phase. But again if ANY of the titles were ever going to be released for saturn from third parties and sega they wouldn't have bothered making it in the first place.
Core's Virtual Golf started life out has a 32X title (where it was called Scotish Open) , so did their Shellshock . Amok started life out has a 32X title .
Yes that's all the 32x games isn't it. For a majority to exist you need a minority and the majority of titles were never going to come on the saturn even if the 32x never existed.So that hardly proves your point.
? They were some Saturn games that looked worse than a Mega Drive or Mega CD game . Hell they were some intro's on the Saturn than had smaller windows and more grain in the FMV than Mega CD games . So no matter the poor of the system if the Team aren't up to it or don't have enough time they'll be poor results .
Yes but they would look poor as a saturn title using the saturn's sematics. That's the point. CC looks poor for a 32x title and resembles an early SNES game.
No I just posted the game running on the systems and all in Youtube piss poor format . The difference you seen when playing both games in Scart on ones CRT are even more apparent the Saturn versions kills the 32X for Gfx and Sound . And other than clipping you still can't list an issue or Bug which says it allblah blah blah... .
Excuses excuses....
I have. And i'm not going into that all again. i don't have time to dig over old topics from decades ago just to satisfy you on something most gamers at that time knows all about.
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If that was the point of the conversation
For the last time 'I' was making the point of the 1st console that shipped with a Modern has standard - To which you then tried to be clever and bring Atari and the rest into it . But like 'I' said the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.
Yet they were up against a games Juggernaut like nintendo
Well even Nintendo were nothing to the Juggernaut that was SONY and its 100 million selling PS console at the time So to try and take on SONY and Nintendo with next to no market share , making massive losses and push your console and all its games for 2 years with just $100 Million. SEGA America did very well with what it did with the DC.
SOJ started the idea and they developed it and launched it in japan
? Launching an add or console doesn't mean they developed it at all , or next you'll be saying SOA made the Mega CD . SEGA Japan did come up with the 32X , but was dropped when it became very clear the 3DO and Jaguar was no threat to the Mega Drive but SOA pushed ahead with the 32X . Read the quite telling and very open interviews with the likes of Scot Bayless & Joe Miller in the likes of Retro.
So was many of the saturn titles in its launch phase
Most launch game are (the Mega CD ones were drivel for the most part)
Yes that's all the 32x games isn't it
Well its more than you made out , that's for sure. But there's more I believe Wing War (Wing Arms on the Saturn) started life has a 32X project and there's no doubt a few more too
Yes but they would look poor as a saturn title using the saturn's sematics
Makes no difference and there is no reason on earth why Mega CD FMV should be better than some Saturn titles . There was also some Snes games that had better 2D than some Saturn platform games . It's always go back to the developer (if they are any good) and how much time and resoruces they are given to complete the task .
I have.
You have not and we all know why . Other than clipping there are no bugs in the Saturn version (other than Kage legs being the wrong way around in some versions)
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For the last time 'I' was making the point of the 1st console that shipped with a Modern has standard - To which you then tried to be clever and bring Atari and the rest into it . But like 'I' said the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.
I wasn't being clever i was talking about modem tech, i had always said that, you brought in the pippin nonsense into it. It wasn't like you started the topic about modems in the first place.
Well even Nintendo were nothing to the Juggernaut that was SONY and its 100 million selling PS console at the time So to try and take on SONY and Nintendo with next to no market share , making massive losses and push your console and all its games for 2 years with just $100 Million. SEGA America did very well with what it did with the DC.
Course not but the parallels are the same. The DC and the Genesis launch while some differences had a lot of similarities perhaps in reverse. All i'm saying is that the two individuals who had the harder job had the will to make the genesis into a success and turn Sega into a household name. The DC like the genesis had the software and unlike the genesis had a more easier sell becaue everyone knew who sega was, all they had to fight was their bad publicity and a strong competitor. The genesis guys didn't have a reputation to begin with which made it more the riskier. but they just didn't have the will ,the talent or the smarts to really turn it around. Even though from the reports it seem Sega was beginning to make gains in the US.
? Launching an add or console doesn't mean they developed it at all , or next you'll be saying SOA made the Mega CD . SEGA Japan did come up with the 32X , but was dropped when it became very clear the 3DO and Jaguar was no threat to the Mega Drive but SOA pushed ahead with the 32X . Read the quite telling and very open interviews with the likes of Scot Bayless & Joe Miller in the likes of Retro.
That comment doesn't make sense. All the hardware add ons came from SOJ alone. Where the hell does that comment come from. Boy are you confused.
I dont need to read it because i lived it. Also the the interviews from latham and a few others which you like to dismiss which says the opposite. That the idea and the system specs were developed by SOJ. So dont give me the add on crap because were not talking about the menacer or the activator which were SOA ideas.
Most launch game are (the Mega CD ones were drivel for the most part)
Then why criticse the 32x for it then? Many 32x games are rare treasures now.
Well its more than you made out , that's for sure. But there's more I believe Wing War (Wing Arms on the Saturn) started life has a 32X project and there's no doubt a few more too
No it isn't. A minority is still a minority and i said majority. Keep up dear chap.
Makes no difference and there is no reason on earth why Mega CD FMV should be better than some Saturn titles . There was also some Snes games that had better 2D than some Saturn platform games . It's always go back to the developer (if they are any good) and how much time and resoruces they are given to complete the task .
Pretty much with why VF1 was terrible.
You have not and we all know why . Other than clipping there are no bugs in the Saturn version (other than Kage legs being the wrong way around in some versions)
I have. You saying and repeating it doesn't changed the fact that i did. I haven't changed my stance on it unlike you who admitted about the bugs and then changed his mind. Most of the magazines in both japan and the US said the same thing. The reaction to the game by the gaming audience at the time was the same. Its you who can't accept that fact not me.
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I always thought it was due to SEGA West and the main office tearing each other apart, which resulted in the stunting of the already expensive Saturn project which lead to the hastily put together and even more expensive Dreamcast project. They got their crap together, but not soon enough.
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I always thought it was due to SEGA West and the main office tearing each other apart, which resulted in the stunting of the already expensive Saturn project which lead to the hastily put together and even more expensive Dreamcast project. They got their crap together, but not soon enough.
That happened during the Saturn era, not really before but the seeds of that internal fighting that was to come was already in place. But its really a combination of things that fell the saturn, infighting, mismanagement, a strong competitor, company corporate arrogance, fan apathy, consumer alienation, weak marketing and no focus is part of the stew that helped saturn to bomb in the west.
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I wasn't being clever i was talking about modem tech
Again . The Pippin was the 1st console to ship with one has standard . The 1st console where everything to go-online was included with the system from day 1 - FACT .
The genesis guys didn't have a reputation to begin with which made it more the riskier. but they just didn't have the will ,the talent or the smarts to really turn it around. Even though from the reports it seem Sega was beginning to make gains in the US.
SOA did a great job with the Mega Drive and a even better one with the SEGA CD (given SOJ messed up so bad) but then SEGA had more money and wasn't selling the Mega Drive at a loss . SEGA in 1998 was making massive losses , making a loss on each DC sold and where development costs with so so much higher Add in the fact that SONY had the 1st console to smash through the 100 million sales (not eben the NES did that)it was an almost impossible task to face , with such limited funds to battle both SONY and Nintendo.
SEGA America did very well with the DC
All the hardware add ons came from SOJ alone
It's all approved by SEGA Japan . SEGA Japan didn't developer stuff like the SEGA Activator, the Mega Drive 3D glasses, Menacer or even the Saturn Mission Stick . So just because SOJ brought out the Super 32X doesn't mean they developed it or were fully backing it .
Also the the interviews from latham and a few others which you like to dismiss which says the opposite
You do know who Scot Bayless & Joe Miller are ?. They were at the top of the tree for SEGA America R&D and Joe Miller was the main man for the 32X project .
Then why criticse the 32x for it then
Becuase the system was so utterly pointless and a step backwards in every area be that spec and game deliver method (cart compared to CD) At least the Mega CD was a step forward in terms of CD and spec's over the Mega Drive and more importantly it wasn't going toe to toe with another brand new SEGA system, 32X was and in every area it was a poor man's Saturn.
Why have the 32X when you had the Saturn a far better and more powerful system and a system that had SOJ full support and all its Consumer and Arcade divisions working on projects . The 32X didn't make any sense in 1994 .
A minority is still a minority and i said majority
No you didn't you said 'none' But there was quite a few .
Pretty much with why VF1 was terrible
Launch games will always have some mirror issues . Other than Clipping VF was Arcade Perfect in gameplay and even Arcade better in terms of sound with better music and far better sound effects than even what the Arcade version could boast . It was also far closer to the Arcade in terms of the number of polygons compared to the 32X.
And with a bit more time AM#2 went to town with Remix with a game running in higher res than what VF 3 was running in the Arcades
I have.
You never have - other than Clipping . Start to list the rest please
Most of the magazines in both japan and the US said the same thing.
These would be ? . Saturn VF scored better than 32X in SEGA Mag for starters
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Again . The Pippin was the 1st console to ship with one has standard . The 1st console where everything to go-online was included with the system from day 1 - FACT .
FACT, modem technology was already being used by several systems before someone introduced it to the Pippin. FACT and FACT again.
SOA did a great job with the Mega Drive and a even better one with the SEGA CD (given SOJ messed up so bad) but then SEGA had more money and wasn't selling the Mega Drive at a loss . SEGA in 1998 was making massive losses , making a loss on each DC sold and where development costs with so so much higher Add in the fact that SONY had the 1st console to smash through the 100 million sales (not eben the NES did that)it was an almost impossible task to face , with such limited funds to battle both SONY and Nintendo.
That's the excuse of a talentless hack. The point is sega was an unknown and there was no guarantee that they would succeed and in a way they nearly didn't. SOA 1998 was full of people that had no idea or real intrest about the company they were working for, too much middl management which still plagues sega today and led by incompetence impotent balding has beens.
SEGA America did very well with the DC
Not well enough, that's the point or we all would't be bemoaning the fact that sonic is now a nintendo exclusive.
It's all approved by SEGA Japan . SEGA Japan didn't developer stuff like the SEGA Activator, the Mega Drive 3D glasses, Menacer or even the Saturn Mission Stick . So just because SOJ brought out the Super 32X doesn't mean they developed it or were fully backing it .
They did develop it and backed it that's the point. And that's always been the point. 32x has never been an SOA idea and never was. The whole thing came from SOJ. Fact.So dont patronise me about giving backing by using the add ons i mentioned against me,SOJ would have been the only part of company capable of building a operable system at that time.
You do know who Scot Bayless & Joe Miller are ?. They were at the top of the tree for SEGA America R&D and Joe Miller was the main man for the 32X project .
yes and let's see what MR miller actually said about that....
Hideki Sato was right there with us, and I don’t want to rehash history – I certainly don’t want to rewrite it either, because there has been a lot said about it, about what exactly transpired there. Let me just put it this way. At CES (Consumer Electronics Show) – and perhaps we even had a little warning before CES – it became clear that there was a desire for us to take a product that was in the early design stages in Japan. It was a new platform (nobody was codenaming things “Jupiter” then, or even “Mars” at that point), and there was certainly an awareness that Japan had an idea of what they wanted to do with a Genesis platform that had more colors and was able to do 3D… take some of what we learned on the SVP chip – the polygon-pusher chip – and integrate something that was more capable and build a new platform. It was still going to be a 16-bit machine with some limited 32-bit capabilities.
, given all of that, we collectively – those of us on the technical side at SOA and the senior technical representatives that were at the show from Sega of Japan – said “let’s at least talk about alternatives. Let’s at least spend some time exploring the art of the possible,” and we did that. We had several designs, several architectures… several choices. Some were simpler than others, and some were more complex, but they were all generally in the same category of what SOJ wanted to do with the new platform.
One of them was to see if we could leverage the existing Genesis as a base and then add capability to it. Frankly, we had done as much with the Sega CD, an add-on that had started, literally, as a sit-underneath platform, and that added new capability. It added a color layer; it added audio and a bunch of other capabilities, and we sold around six million of those. The installed base for the Genesis at that time was something less than 40 million, so we felt that model had some merit, because it kept our customers from having to discard an existing platform that they had made an investment in already. Certainly, our core customers had made an investment in several titles, several games on that platform.
So we were looking for a way to leverage the best of what we had done and add that capability to something new, and the 32X evolved out of that. It certainly wasn’t a revolt, and it wasn’t a matter of us or me standing up and saying “no, that’s a bad idea.” I don’t think I ever said that… [Laughs]… I don’t believe I ever said to anyone from SOJ who came over with the original idea that it was bad idea because that wasn’t the kind of relationship we had. I had more respect for all of them than that. But, by the end of CES, we collectively came up with something we thought would work better. They thought it was pretty cool and said “this is great. Why don’t you guys help us run with it? Help us figure out how to pull this off.”
It really does sounds that SOJ didn't have the idea, wasn't working with SOA every step of the way and didn't plan it to be what it was supposed to be a bridge gap towards the saturn and extend the genesis lifespan. So try again my plucky chum.
Becuase the system was so utterly pointless and a step backwards in every area be that spec and game deliver method (cart compared to CD) At least the Mega CD was a step forward in terms of CD and spec's over the Mega Drive and more importantly it wasn't going toe to toe with another brand new SEGA system, 32X was and in every area it was a poor man's Saturn.
And it was all SOJ's idea too... 8)
Why have the 32X when you had the Saturn a far better and more powerful system and a system that had SOJ full support and all its Consumer and Arcade divisions working on projects . The 32X didn't make any sense in 1994 .
Awww you still blaming the 32x for messing up the saturn's chances? Why dont you put the blame on where it really desevre to go, SOJ for a creating the 32x and b messing up any chances for letting the saturn continue with proven franchiss that was succesful on the saturn,but oh no we must create a fairy tale about how the saturn was ruined by an add on.
No you didn't you said 'none' But there was quite a few .
I said majority. You didn't even give out a single bit of proof, been googling have we?
Launch games will always have some mirror issues . Other than Clipping VF was Arcade Perfect in gameplay and even Arcade better in terms of sound with better music and far better sound effects than even what the Arcade version could boast . It was also far closer to the Arcade in terms of the number of polygons compared to the 32X.
You really are delusional. better than the arcade version? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA!