SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Team Andromeda on January 23, 2013, 01:57:01 pm
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Admit edit: Debate topic for all SEGA related things!
original post below:
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But which big time company isn't these days.
Ubisoft, EA, Take Two
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Actually I've been making the point that SEGA been rather poor and a shadow of its former self (non Arcade ) for years .
That's news to me. Considering that i've been harping on about the arcade content being far superior(until recently, latest efforts haven't been great) to their third party efforts for years now.
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Sega owns the rights to BAYONETTA just because Ninty is publishing it doesn't stop it from being a Sega property
its not a SEGA game .
That's news to me. Considering that i've been harping on about the arcade content being far superior
Try no I haven't . You used to go on about this great SEGA plan and document . I've been saying for years that bar a few lines, SEGA Japan have simply failed to get their next gen production lines up to next gen levels .
That's like saying Tecmo lost all rights to Ninja Gaiden 3 when that was exclusivly published by nintendo
NG III was published by Temco on the PS3 and 360.
Sega again with SHENMUE 2 when Microsoft published it.
Funny you should bring up Shenmue , who made that game AM#2 or CRI ?. We can all play the IP game when it suits us .
Capcom seems to love angering their fans
? They've been very good . RE 6 was good and Dragon Dogma pretty shit hot and DMC is simply brilliant too and their framework engine is rather special .
At least Capcom is making sequels to it major IP on main consoles
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its not a SEGA game .
It is. Legally.
Try no I haven't . You used to go on about this great SEGA plan and document . I've been saying for years that bar a few lines, SEGA Japan have simply failed to get their next gen production lines up to next gen levels .
Actually i was saying that for years. When people were trashing Sega i've been saying that the arcade side was delivering back in the GR forums and the Sega forums. I don't remember you saying that. Because some people like to think Sega is all about the consumer division now.
You used to go on about this great SEGA plan and document .
Oddly enough Sega was saying that themselves too. Its not my fault they didn't deliver but then that's depends on opinion...and circumstance.
NG III was published by Temco on the PS3 and 360.
Not on nintendo.
Funny you should bring up Shenmue , who made that game AM#2 or CRI ?. We can all play the IP game when it suits us .
Like you did with BAYONETTA? The point is, it doesn't stop being a Sega game because someone else is publishing it. Did FZERO stop being a nintendo game when Sega frigging developed it for Gamecube and arcade?
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I believe Company of Heroes 2 is out this year, with the recent purchase, that's another game in SEGA's 2013 plan.
Yes, a good addition to the Sega family. But there's another game called ATLUS that Relic is developing and according to Sega they purchased all the IPs connected with Relic. So that's another title coming from Sega scheduled for 2014.
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Can anyone give me some background on Relic as a Developer?
I have no knowledge of them but from what I read they make great RTS'?
My question is why are SEGA strengthening their RTS line up when Total War is something they could live on forever? Not saying buying Relic is a bad thing, just curious to know what this means now for CA?
Also, any news on Hardlight? Their game got cancelled didn't it?
They tried to make inroads before on the PC market when Simon Jeffery was in charge but that failed when they screwed up UNIVERSE AT WAR's release and some of the partnerships with other developers didn't pan out like the people who made SPACE SEIGE.
I think this aquisition has more to do with trying to make an impact in the american PC market because FOOTBALL MANGER and TOTAL WAR are stronger in europe than they are in the States. Also of course WARHAMMER license is a key component in that plan as well and now Sega has overall control over all assets of that license.
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Sega owns the rights to BAYONETTA just because Ninty is publishing it doesn't stop it from being a Sega property. That's like saying Tecmo lost all rights to Ninja Gaiden 3 when that was exclusivly published by nintendo or Sega again with SHENMUE 2 when Microsoft published it.
Another good example would be namco developing the new smash bros for nintendo. Still a nintendo game. Or even f zero being done by SEGA, which was also still a nintendo game.
I think what differs this situation from the other is that it's a more complicated situation. Because it's a SEGA IP, developed by Platinum and published by nintendo. I guess if it was an inhouse IP it would have been different case. But yeah I agree, Bayonetta can be still seen as a SEGA game imo as well
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Bayonetta is on the same level, for me, as Ecco is. It wouldn't have been what it was without SEGA, but it was not internally developed. Still a SEGA game. With Bayonetta 2, there is a bit more distance from the SEGA brand, but that SEGA connection is still there. Though not as strong as with the first game.
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The only time sega is ever mentioned with regards to Bayonetta is how they fucked up the ps3 port.
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People really consider Bayonetta 2 a Sega title even though they are neither publishing nor developing it?
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Bayonetta 2 is as much of a Sega game as NBA 2k13 (the Sega code is still there guyzzz)
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To me Bayonetta is a Capcom game.
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yeah Sega sure is pimping Bayonetta out right now. I hope at least they're cutting a fat licensing check.
I'd be excited for this game published by whoever, if it wasn't exclusive to a console I have no intention of buying. Ah well.
and to weigh-in on whether B2 will be a sega game, I have to say no. Platinum is not an exclusive developer. Their ties to Sega are at their lowest ever if any exist at all. This is a case of a Sega character in a non-Sega game sadly.
Much like how Hatsune Miku stars in Sega games but is not a Sega character (I with they would do something about that though).
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RE6 was rather controversial...many hated it
Dragon's Dogma was good, but DmC is Ninja Theory and not directly In-house Capcom related.
The bad thing with Capcom is, that all of their great ex-developers are now at Platinum Games, or here and there somewhere else, making huge attention-driving games.
With Sega, they lost Yu Suzuki, Naka and Mizuguchi. But there is either vaporware, or the exact opposite of the games that ex-Capcom people are making. Small games, nobody is noticing.
Sega has a better chance to turn them self-around to greater goodness, when they're in better shape again, than Capcom imo.
Please rip . Clover was one studio (Capcom have 4 other productions studios) and its like saying that when SEGA closed down UGA all the SEGA talent left . Capcom have a great next gen engine in the shape of Frameworks and have made some great games this gen in the shape of RE 5, 6, Dead Rising , DMC IV, Dragon Dogma , Lost Planet 1 and II , Street Fighter IV and so on.
Sure RE 6 isn't the be and end all, but its a very well made game and good in its own rite . Capcom have more multi million selling IP, they've been far more successful in update their IP to new comings . What SEGA got other than Sonic when it comes to a million selling IP ?
I get bored of SEGA fans making endless excesses for SEGA and trying to paint this rose picture . Sure SEGA in decent shape , but SEGA Japan needs to up its game and production lines for home consoles and really start to update some its IP for the fans and current or next gen consoles ...
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Actually i was saying that for years. When people were trashing Sega i've been saying that the arcade side was delivering back in the GR forums and the Sega forums. I don't remember you saying that. Because some people like to think Sega is all about the consumer division now
I'm not going to go over old ground, but many here will remember it all . No I haven't been singing SEGA praises for years and many of these views are no doubt still up here.
Not on nintendo.
Nintendo did a publishing deal . Tell me this was Code Veronica a Edios game or a Capcom game , is Sonic and Mario Olympics a SEGA game or a NCL game . Seeing as SEGA developed the game and published it the west , but NCL published it in Japan.
Oddly enough Sega was saying that themselves too. Its not my fault they didn't deliver
Some could have told you years ago . Its a shame as there's plenty of talent in the SEGA group , but little vision or creative thinking - Its all short terms measures and planning , bar with Teams like Sonic Team whom at least have a plan
Like you did with BAYONETTA
I never classed Bay as a SEGA game at all. And if you and the other here want to be clever who made and developed F355 SEGA and AM#2 or was it in fact a Acclaim developed game ? . There's a world of difference between the Team that developed a game, to corp that picks up the distribution rights .
Next you'll be making out that infogrames made Panzer Dragon Orta
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Sure RE 6 isn't the be and end all, but its a very well made game and good in its own rite.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LrVou1Jo7w[/youtube]
I guess if you're a fan of the QTEs in Shenmue you can like RE6.
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I'm not going to go over old ground, but many here will remember it all . No I haven't been singing SEGA praises for years and many of these views are no doubt still up here.
That's the point. You and many others have generalized Sega's consumer team output and neglected their arcade division down the years. I don't remember you praising their arcade output when the consumer division rightly or wrongly was being criticized between the early to mid noughties.
Nintendo did a publishing deal .
Exactly, a publishing deal of a game that Sega owns. Its called BAYONETTA 2 by the way. Which Sega is involved in and will get paid for while nintendo handles most of the costs. Not bad i'd say. Pretty much like what happened with FZERO that sega developed. But i guess because sega made that it ceases to be a nintendo game, right?
Some could have told you years ago . Its a shame as there's plenty of talent in the SEGA group , but little vision or creative thinking - Its all short terms measures and planning , bar with Teams like Sonic Team whom at least have a plan
Told me or sega who said it themselves? Funny because BINARY DOMAIN was the result of that particular ideology so it wasn't a pipe dream. it just didn't work properly for a variety of reasons. You know as well as i do that Sega lacks focus and keeps changing their plans. What's happening with the digital shift is testament to that.
I never classed Bay as a SEGA game at all. And if you and the other here want to be clever who made and developed F355 SEGA and AM#2 or was it in fact a Acclaim developed game ? . There's a world of difference between the Team that developed a game, to corp that picks up the distribution rights
Next you'll be making out that infogrames made Panzer Dragon Orta
Its strange that your argument never stacks up though. especially when you come up with ridiculous points that doesn't cover or strengthen your argument. Many of Sega's classic titles on genesis was made by outside teams but they are still classed as Sega games by many including you. This is nothing to do with what you consider what makes a Sega game but a personal dislike for the team involved. Grow up for gods sake. BAYONETTA was/is a second party Sega game. made by Platinum, paid for by Sega. They owe everything to do with the title and still do. Just like SHINING FORCE which was never made by a real inhouse Sega team either until recently with the arcade versions. Yet that's probably not a Sega game either right?
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the plans for sega are immense. all we have is that we talking wondering.
there is a great difference between the agenda tactics thats been told and the one that is hidden.
and i an asure without any research that 80 procent if not more is hidden.
sega does bad stuff
and good stuff as well
while they suffer to sell such as dumb ass lumber jack.
but they do well with anarchy reigns(even tho considered as not as best game ever)
yall talking and debating. my only complain is that sega doesnt really directly cimmunicate with the fans.
this has always been my torment i wear and wore.
sega has a future and they have a perfect plan. also they have bad plans.
but hopefully they will keep the good ones and leave the bad
yes this will dissapoint the minoritys that really like some games that are not sold well.
this brings me to another point.
the fans( by god the allmighty)
want
yakuza
sonic
shenmue
streets of rage
a proper golden axe
a proper altered beast
some nice panzer dragoon
pso2 in europe and usa
little do they listen and the games that are really in demand are either neglected or left into oblivion with weak excuses such as: they wont do good
(u dont even try bro)
but they do try lumber jack they do try spellwood they do try this n that.
so thats my weak spot is the communication. this is not as oftopic as u think. but in the past they made mistakes with the early leaking sega dreamcast all over the net. so they work in secrecy. and u cant take that as an offense. its their right. sega is like that egg chocolate candy. in belgium they call it kinder surprise.
when u buy the egg its a nice chocolate egg. but we all know kids buy it for the surprise within. and sometimes u get really good shit. and sometimes u dont
thats how sega is and that is because of their secrecy. so their future is hard to tell. and thats why i say if they would communicate with us(without telling their plans) and they would take all our ideas and fuse the whole intermingling. surely they would slightly change their plans in SECRECY.
and surely that kinder surprise chocolate egg would make more good then bad surprises.
its whacko the way i tell it. but i hope u guys get the message
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I guess if you're a fan of the QTEs in Shenmue you can like RE6.
I don't need silly vids I mich rather play and own the game . Don't see what people's issues are with QTE that was SEGA at its creative best and they never hurt games like Shenmue II, God of War , RE 4 (which many hail as the best in the series ) so why the big fuss and outcry with RE 5 or 6 I do not know.
And as someone who owns and plays RE6 I think its very good , the people who knock it most I bet don't own the game, just like the case for Sonic's Ect.
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You and many others have generalized Sega's consumer team output and neglected their arcade division down the years
No I've always be a fan of SEGA Arcade , and I remember very well me and the likes of Sharky wondering why SEGA could be so great on PC based hardware in the Arcade and push very basic spec's Arcade boards to its limits, yet be so far behind many when in game to the 360 and PS3 .
Exactly, a publishing deal of a game that Sega owns
You're really going to make out that Ninja Gaiden 3 is a NCL game ? .
Pretty much like what happened with FZERO that sega developed
Nope not only did SEGA developed the title they also produced the Arcade version which was the led development . F-Zero is AV version game in terms of development and design. Much like MDK 2 is a Bioware game really, even if they aren't the publisher or developers of the original.
Many of Sega's classic titles on genesis was made by outside teams but they are still classed as Sega games by many including you.
These games would be ? I'm not a massive fan of the Mega Drive and only consider a SEGA game to be one that was really developed by SEGA . If a port of a SEGA Arcade game contracted out that is a little bit different.
Funny because BINARY DOMAIN was the result of that particular ideology so it wasn't a pipe dream.
Pipe dream ? I remember saying about 4 years ago how the Team were big fans of Gear of War and wanted to make that style of game , which was rubbish by many on SEGA nerds . There's plenty of talent still left inside SEGA Japan , but they're help back by outdated pipe lines and old Team heads , when its time to give the younger guys their chance to lead and command their own Teams like Yu Suzuki Ect was able to in the past . And I had said the likes of that for years now .
Just like SHINING FORCE which was never made by a real in-house Sega team either until recently with the arcade versions. Yet that's probably not a Sega game either right?
I don't think I've ever classed Shining Force III has being made in-house by SEGA , the 1st two Shining Games were developed in-house though before the Team split away from SEGA Japan
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I don't need silly vids I mich rather play and own the game . Don't see what people's issues are with QTE that was SEGA at its creative best and they never hurt games like Shenmue II, God of War , RE 4 (which many hail as the best in the series ) so why the big fuss and outcry with RE 5 or 6 I do not know.
Because everyone praises Resident Evil 4 for pretty much everything except the QTEs and story? Just because it's praised so much doesn't mean that it's perfect in every way. Hell, one of the main criticisms of modern game design is that games rely too much on lazily done QTEs, and RE6 is the pinnacle of that. It really isn't hard to understand why people don't like the game.
And as someone who owns and plays RE6 I think its very good , the people who knock it most I bet don't own the game, just like the case for Sonic's Ect.
Hello bullshit assumption by guy who seemingly can't accept that other people can have different opinions.
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I played like 40 minutes of RE6 and it nearly made me want to quit gaming forever.
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The cover of RE6 resembles a prostitute giving head to a giraffe-man in boots.
I only played RE5 for 10 minutes and quickly deleted it off my Xbox.
Also, QTEs were not new when Shenmue came out. It just had never been implemented as perfectly as AM2 did it. And after that very few devs had the skill to do it as well.
QTEs aren't bad. Games just have bad QTEs.
To this day, one of my most amazing gaming experiences was the Barber Shop in Shenmue II. Just because of that QTE.
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No I've always be a fan of SEGA Arcade , and I remember very well me and the likes of Sharky wondering why SEGA could be so great on PC based hardware in the Arcade and push very basic spec's Arcade boards to its limits, yet be so far behind many when in game to the 360 and PS3 .
Really? yet you haven't obviously played them constanly in the last decade, if you had you'd know that their recent titles from 2011 onwards haven't been up to scratch. All i remember is you saying how Sega cant do this or that without mentioning whether the arcade teams were producing great titles during that period.
You're really going to make out that Ninja Gaiden 3 is a NCL game ? .
Are you making out that BAYONETTA 2 is a NCL game? Next thing you 'll be saying FZERO is a Sega title.
Nope not only did SEGA developed the title they also produced the Arcade version which was the led development . F-Zero is AV version game in terms of development and design. Much like MDK 2 is a Bioware game really, even if they aren't the publisher or developers of the original.
Nope what? I said Fzero arcade and GC was developed by Sega, cant you read? Or are you so much into yourself you have to make out you know more than anyone else while ignoring that they already mentioned what you are trying to make out as your expert opinion? If you claim BAYONETTA 2 isn't a sega title despite them owning and being involved with the sequel you might as well say the same thing about FZERO GC and AX which Sega developed and Nintendo being invovled in an advisory role. Its the same thing. The difference is that BAYONETTA is a Sega second party title.
These games would be ? I'm not a massive fan of the Mega Drive and only consider a SEGA game to be one that was really developed by SEGA . If a port of a SEGA Arcade game contracted out that is a little bit different.
News to me. I dont remember you saying ECCO wasn't Sega enough after the title was announced
unofficially to being made into an IOS game.
Pipe dream ? I remember saying about 4 years ago how the Team were big fans of Gear of War and wanted to make that style of game , which was rubbish by many on SEGA nerds . There's plenty of talent still left inside SEGA Japan , but they're help back by outdated pipe lines and old Team heads , when its time to give the younger guys their chance to lead and command their own Teams like Yu Suzuki Ect was able to in the past . And I had said the likes of that for years now .
Yawn. I also remember that you stated that Nagoshi's game wasn't even finished for a demo to show to the excecutives. The point is that the company geared itself to create a "proper" sega consumer title or titles but unfortunalty we only saw BINARY DOMAIN as the solo result.
I don't think I've ever classed Shining Force III has being made in-house by SEGA , the 1st two Shining Games were developed in-house though before the Team split away from SEGA Japan
I didn't mention SHINING FORCE 3, I said SHINING FORCE. The team was only associated with Sega and never part of the main group before they "split off" to Camelot and you cant really say the same thing about Climax either who was involved with trhe series with the earlier titles before Camelot took over with the GG and Saturn titles. So it was still classed as being second party om SHINING IN THE DARKNESS the two SHINING FORCE MD games and the GG titles.
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Hell, one of the main criticisms of modern game design is that games rely too much on lazily done QTEs, and RE6 is the pinnacle of that. It really isn't hard to understand why people don't like the game.
People knocked RE 5 for the lack of atmosphere, too much action and no scares - RE 6 brought some of that back . I know a lot of people that knocked the 7 bells out of RE 6 only by going on the demo's (much like with Sonic Unleashed and Generations).
Re 6 is a good game - not the best in the series , but its a well made game at the end of the day
I only played RE5 for 10 minutes and quickly deleted it off my Xbox
Demo ?
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Really? yet you haven't obviously played them constanly in the last decade
? I don't get what you mean . SEGA been great in the Arcades and able to push very basic PC tech to it limits and make it look as good as many current gen 360 and P3 games - yet the Tech powering the games is way behind those of the consoles . I've just wonder for years why SEGA R&D tech can be so good on Lindberg and Ring Edge and be so behind on the consoles and other Japanese corps for Tech on home consoles games (bar the odd title here and there)
If you claim BAYONETTA 2 isn't a sega title despite them owning and being involved with the sequel
You can forget Bay II , I don't even class Bay 1 has a SEGA game - SEGA didn't develop it , they just bought the rights to the IP , in just the same way SEGA signed up Gunstar Heroes . People like you may well want to point out its a SEGA game, to me it was and always will be a Treasure game; Treasure developed it and made the game, same goes for Bay.
I dont remember you saying ECCO wasn't Sega enough after the title was announced
unofficially to being made into an IOS game
Again its not a SEGA developed game , I don't consider it to be a In-House title , just like D2 on the DC. I just wish SEGA being the IP holder to bring the titles to XBLA and PSN.
sega consumer title or titles but unfortunalty we only saw BINARY DOMAIN as the solo result.
Yes like the point was made years ago -Its sad the quality and the Team was there .
I said SHINING FORCE. The team was only associated with Sega and never part of the main group before they "split off" to Camelot and you cant really say the same thing about Climax either who was involved with trhe series with the earlier titles before Camelot took over with the GG and Saturn titles
Look we all know the 1st 2 titles we made In-House . Climax I never considered their games to be In-House titles with regards to Land Stalker or Dark Savour and there's been many a team an outside Team has been drafted in to help a In-House studio with developer at key points - It happened with Shenmue and to this day happens with the likes of Bioshock 2 .
But forget all that, SEGA Japan In-House teams need to up their game BIG time over the next few years
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People knocked RE 5 for the lack of atmosphere, too much action and no scares - RE 6 brought some of that back . I know a lot of people that knocked the 7 bells out of RE 6 only by going on the demo's (much like with Sonic Unleashed and Generations).
Re 6 is a good game - not the best in the series , but its a well made game at the end of the day
Demo ?
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i agree with that. my new best is rsident evil revelations
its like sonic 4 ep 1 and 2. its still freaking good. but its probably the wors out of the best
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While my optimism tends to backfire, I do think it's too early to be judging SEGA's 2012 line up. Oh, and Bayonetta 2 IS a SEGA game, especially if you have no problem calling The Cave a SEGA game. It's an IP owned by SEGA, SEGA has input on the project, and it's being made by the same people who made the original Bayonetta.
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^I dunno, it's neither published nor developed by Sega, they just own the character AFAIK. I can't consider that a Sega game.
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http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/30/sega-no-plans-to-re-release-virtual-on-virtua-striker-outside/
What the fuck? Can we still buy the JP version and play with each other online?
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Sega has almost no input whatsoever on Bayonetta 2. They serve as "advisors" if asked for their advice, but that is literally the extent of it. Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo game, they'll have far more input on it than Sega will; not that they'll interfere too much.
That said, Sega's name will be on the box, so I don't see why it can't be included in this list, especially since it's a game that many Sega fans will love. (Well, unless they refuse to play it. Which would be stupid.)
Sure RE 6 isn't the be and end all, but its a very well made game and good in its own rite .
That's...what it wasn't. I'd definitely say that RE5 was well-made, but RE6? Nope.
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http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/30/sega-no-plans-to-re-release-virtual-on-virtua-striker-outside/
What the fuck? Can we still buy the JP version and play with each other online?
I'm sure you can still play the JP version. Just setup a JP psn or xbox account, buy, download and play.
I have the jp Virtual On Force and while the text is completely Jp, I was able to play online no problem. I assume the same for these titles.
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^I dunno, it's neither published nor developed by Sega, they just own the character AFAIK. I can't consider that a Sega game.
They own the IP, which includes the character and everything else.
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Sega has almost no input whatsoever on Bayonetta 2. They serve as "advisors" if asked for their advice, but that is literally the extent of it. Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo game, they'll have far more input on it than Sega will; not that they'll interfere too much.
Yep spot on . Its kind of sad that SEGA fans are becoming so desperate to try and make out that Bay II is a SEGA game , because SEGA line up is so weak
And this IP is just silly . Activision own the rights to bond , did they make Golden Eye on the N64 or was in RARE ? Did Acclaim make Ferrari F355 or was it SEGA, Did EA made Nascar Racing or was it SEGA Rosso . In the end Platinium made Bayonetta not SEGA
That's...what it wasn't. I'd definitely say that RE5 was well-made, but RE6? Nope
I like RE 5 but it had zero scares and no atmosphere in terms of a Horror game - RE 6 brought some of that back imo.
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They own the IP, which includes the character and everything else.
I know they own the IP, but they have nothing to do with this game, they just licensed out the character.
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I'm not sure if Activision still has the James Bond license. They recently removed all Bond games from Steam (and also Blur for some reason).
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You can forget Bay II , I don't even class Bay 1 has a SEGA game - SEGA didn't develop it , they just bought the rights to the IP , in just the same way SEGA signed up Gunstar Heroes . People like you may well want to point out its a SEGA game, to me it was and always will be a Treasure game; Treasure developed it and made the game, same goes for Bay.
It depends how well known the Studio is. Platinum and Treasure are definitly recognized for their past successes, and anyone who isn't a super casual gamer, would think of it as mostly a game made by those Studios.
Same goes for the Cave and Renegade Ops. They are advertised to be made by the people who did famous stuff like Just Cause and Monkey Island.
With games like Ecco and ToeJam & Earl, they came of developers with work prior relatively unknown, or not hugely recognizable.
Arkedo with Hell Yeah is an identical situation.
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It depends how well known the Studio is. Platinum and Treasure are definitly recognized for their past successes, and anyone who isn't a super casual gamer, would think of it as mostly a game made by those Studios.
Not just those who should get the credit for Earthworm Jim ? Dave Perry and his then Shining Studio or Interplay and Playmates ? - who did exactly what SEGA did with Bay - And that pick up the rights and publish the game .
I'm not sure if Activision still has the James Bond license.
I'm sure they still own it, but since the likes of Bizarre Creations and Eurocom have shut down - that might explain why the games have been pulled . In the end we all know that RARE developed and made GoldenEye not the IP holder
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? I don't get what you mean . SEGA been great in the Arcades and able to push very basic PC tech to it limits and make it look as good as many current gen 360 and P3 games - yet the Tech powering the games is way behind those of the consoles . I've just wonder for years why SEGA R&D tech can be so good on Lindberg and Ring Edge and be so behind on the consoles and other Japanese corps for Tech on home consoles games (bar the odd title here and there)
The point is you kept shouting how poor the console games were and didn't even say anything about the arcade scene. Dont bother trying to say you did either. i was there pratically defending to other people that their arcade games were coming up with a lot of good games. And no, the arcade games from Sega at the moment are dire, endless repeats of the same game, type of game or social gaming/kiddie gaming nonsense.
You can forget Bay II , I don't even class Bay 1 has a SEGA game - SEGA didn't develop it , they just bought the rights to the IP , in just the same way SEGA signed up Gunstar Heroes . People like you may well want to point out its a SEGA game, to me it was and always will be a Treasure game; Treasure developed it and made the game, same goes for Bay.
Wrong. Its part of a long proud tradition of Sega second party gaming. Which i stated quite clearly. Sega is more than just being about inhouse games, second or third party titles and western made titles. like it or not its part of Sega's leagcy. It all fits together. But why am i arguing with a guy who thinks the megadrive is shit? lose credibilty right there.
Again its not a SEGA developed game , I don't consider it to be a In-House title , just like D2 on the DC. I just wish SEGA being the IP holder to bring the titles to XBLA and PSN.
Nobady said they were inhouse.
Look we all know the 1st 2 titles we made In-House . Climax I never considered their games to be In-House titles with regards to Land Stalker or Dark Savour and there's been many a team an outside Team has been drafted in to help a In-House studio with developer at key points - It happened with Shenmue and to this day happens with the likes of Bioshock 2 .
No, they weren't they were associated not inhouse teams, Climax was involved with SHINING and the Darkness and the first two Shining Force titles with Sonic Planning. So effectivly you dont consider the first SHINING games to be proper Sega games ,which technically they are not.
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Sega has almost no input whatsoever on Bayonetta 2. They serve as "advisors" if asked for their advice, but that is literally the extent of it. Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo game, they'll have far more input on it than Sega will; not that they'll interfere too much.
Incorrect. Sega's involvement in this sequel actually goes deeper than what you are suggesting. They just didn't fully commit to it due to financial elements. And if people really think a studio like Platinum can just walk up to someone like Nintendo and shop BAYONETTA 2 to them, they are living in lala land. Sega would have been involved in the deal from the start with nintendo and probably helped set up the meeting in the first place Then Nintendo would more or less had to talk to sega about make it an exclusive. They being Nintendo would have to negotiate with Sega the price to do that and use the IP that Sega would be willing to accept. And then they would have to pay Sega the price to use the IP and make it an exclusive. So that's hardly Sega being non involved. And lets not forget, sega had no input in the development of the first batch of PG titles, all sega did was approve some elements when it came to use of certain characters they owned and help support the PG staff with technical stuff, which they did. The advisory role is just there because nintendo paid sega the privilage to use its IP. Using the Advising credit to bat Sega over the head with to satisfy the naysayers that Sega isn't involved or didn't play a vital role is stupid when on a game when they didn't advise PG in the first place with their first titles, which was why PG was happy with the Sega deal because they had a lot of freedom to do what they wanted. So saying the advisory thing as a case of point really doesn't mean anything.
And the reality is Sega could have just sat on this IP and not let PG use it, we know this because Sega has sat on various IP for years and not done anything with them. So people blowing steam about this or that and sega betrayal and whatnot be grateful that you are getting a sequel, because there are many SEGA games out there that people would like to see sequels of be they from the in house teams or second party and western dev side.
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The point is you kept shouting how poor the console games were and didn't even say anything about the arcade scene.
I've always wonder why SEGA can push PC tech so hard inthe Arcades and be so behind the times for consoles and I don't need to use the way back when, to prove that
Its part of a long proud tradition of Sega second party gaming
Sorry I don't like SEGA for 2nd party games, but used to love them for In-House games - Those days are few and far between now
Climax was involved with SHINING and the Darkness and the first two
Climax helped out with many games even Shenmue , Shenmue is still a AM#2 game though .
Sega's involvement in this sequel actually goes deeper than what you are suggesting
Yes SEGA allowed reference to their Arcade games and music and that's it . It be quite clear with Bay II that SEGA not being the publisher makes next to no difference to the game design
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I like RE 5 but it had zero scares and no atmosphere in terms of a Horror game - RE 6 brought some of that back imo.
See I felt that while RE5 had zero scares (Well, except for that Licker corridor towards the end) I thought the game had a well-crafted level of intensity; it used RE4's stop and shoot system, which is VERY successful at creating a suspenseful and intense atmosphere, especially when that Chainsaw guy came after you.
RE6 darkened the environments but I didn't find it scary in the least, and I thought all 4 campaigns were awfully paced with almost no thought put into creating suspense, atmosphere, or anything except "how much shit can we blow up."
And the aiming sucked. The environments were even smaller and offered even less exploration than RE5. The music was over-the-top and wouldn't shut up, the cover system (for the characters who used it) was awful, the bosses were terrible, the graphics didn't even look that good (while RE5 looked incredible for its time) the "leveling up" system was nearly useless, and all in all...sorry, but I just don't get it; even if you say "judge the game on its own merits and forget it's a Resident Evil game," RE6 was one of the worst action games I've ever played.
At least RE5 did what it tried to do (co-op action in an eerie setting with a plot that wrapped up pretty much everything that began with RE1) well. It was what it was, but it did it well. RE6 to me did nothing well, and I'm glad sales figures are showing that many people agree.
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I've always wonder why SEGA can push PC tech so hard inthe Arcades and be so behind the times for consoles and I don't need to use the way back when, to prove that
Were not talking about tech. Were talking about perception on how good the titles were back then. Again you didn't say nothing whether Sega was really firing duds when people were slagging off the quality of their software. And i dont need to go way back to prove that either.
Sorry I don't like SEGA for 2nd party games, but used to love them for In-House games - Those days are few and far between now
I like Sega for bringing a unique quality to the gaming experience. Its sheer diversity of the great titles that SOJ can manage to muster with what they have under second party development and western development can pull out. All trying to be the best that they can be. I mean who would have thought ten years ago that I could say that AFTERBURNER, SHINOBI and PHANTASY STAR belongs in the same house of TOTAL WAR and now COMPANY OF HEROES? Its a unique blending of these titles that make Sega standout.
Point is the word Sega means different things to different people. To some it use to mean pinball machines. To others its Redemption systems. To many its Sonic. To others its 3d gaming. To a few its the classic mechanical electronic systems. And to some the best of japan or others it means Genesis and western gaming, etc etc. The reality is the defination of a Sega game has evolved from the many decades that the company has been around. From titles to KILLER SHARK to FROGGER to HOT ROD and SONIC, VIRTUA FIGHTER to SAKURA TAISEN, SHINING FORCE to ECCO and VECTOR MAN to GUNSTAR HEROES and BAYONETTA. All these titles fit into the unique mix of what the Sega brand of gaming has evolved to regardless of their origins. And it will keep on evolving. The one thing that hasn't changed is the idealogy of Sega being the best in whatever field of gaming they are in.
Climax helped out with many games even Shenmue , Shenmue is still a AM#2 game though .
Not really the same thing TA and you know it. SHINING has always been worked on by outside development and originally by two teams who both contributed ideas to the early stage of that series.
Yes SEGA allowed reference to their Arcade games and music and that's it . It be quite clear with Bay II that SEGA not being the publisher makes next to no difference to the game design
Didn't i just say that? Point is without Sega, there wouldn't be a BAYONETTA 2. That's the fact that most people keep missing. No one can shop around an ip that they dont own to another company and then suddenly get it made without the owner's participation. If they could hell we'd still be playing proper SHINING FORCE titles on Nintendo instead of these Golden Sun games.
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Not really the same thing TA and you know it
No Climax have always helped SEGA in times of need and you know it
Were not talking about tech.
Sorry mate I on about the Tech and just can't understand how SEGA can push the likes of Lindberg so hard (where the likes of VF 5 look as good as any console fighter) and yet be so far (even Capcom) for next gen engines of the main consoles , not always but really SEGA with its Arcade background should have been the leading force on the next Gen system for a Japanese studio .
Its a unique blending of these titles that make Sega standout.
If we're honest . SEGA doesn't really stand out anymore and that's the trouble .
SHINING has always been worked on by outside development
Yes but the 1st two were made In-House while the brothers were still at SEGA.
Point is without Sega, there wouldn't be a BAYONETTA 2.
Well true but then you just call it something else like SEGA still hold the IP rights to MSR, but BC made PGR series for Microsoft or like SEGA still has REZ but Q? made Child Of Eden ;Though I must admit Bay is a great character and would be a loss if the Team had to make the game with out her
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No Climax have always helped SEGA in times of need and you know it
Not with SHINING FORCE they didn't, they were a fresh new team at the time co developing the title with another new fresh team. BOTH were not associated with Sega.
Sorry mate I on about the Tech and just can't understand how SEGA can push the likes of Lindberg so hard (where the likes of VF 5 look as good as any console fighter) and yet be so far (even Capcom) for next gen engines of the main consoles , not always but really SEGA with its Arcade background should have been the leading force on the next Gen system for a Japanese studio .
Again nothing to do with how good a game is. People were slagging off Sega left right and centre back at the GR forums and you didn't say anything to say the whether the arcade games were good or not.
Tech doesn't mean a game will be good or not. And the fact you haven't addressed that and keep going on about something that's nothing to do with what i said means you know you didn't. Argument done.
If we're honest . SEGA doesn't really stand out anymore and that's the trouble .
I think they stood out quite nicely between 2008-2011.
Yes but the 1st two were made In-House while the brothers were still at SEGA.
That's like saying Yuzo was part of Sega when in fact he wasn't.
Well true but then you just call it something else like SEGA still hold the IP rights to MSR, but BC made PGR series for Microsoft or like SEGA still has REZ but Q? made Child Of Eden ;Though I must admit Bay is a great character and would be a loss if the Team had to make the game with out her
You mean the code? Oh yes if Nintendo wanted a Bayonetta like game then they could have gone for that but obviously they wanted the name as well.Even then any code would have to change elements from the previous code like GOTHAM did after PGR.
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Not with SHINING FORCE they didn't, they were a fresh new team at the time co developing the title with another new fresh team. BOTH were not associated with Sega
They did help out SEGA with Shining Force its even on their website (still),they've helped SEGA out a number of times. Yes the two brothers were contracted to SEGA Japan which is different I guess but it was still sort of In-House production . It really was after the 1st two games that SEGA had little to do with the series I think
People were slagging off Sega left right and centre back at the GR forums and you didn't say anything to say the whether the arcade games were good or no
They were but at that time they wasn't much hope of them making the journey to the 360 and its similar now ; loads here want the likes of Shining or Border Break to come the consoles but they're falling on death ear's . SEGA with its close links to PC Tech ever since Model 3 and that the carried through with Chinhiro, Lindberg should have been the Japanese Studio to make out the likes of the 360, but they never really did (bar the odd game) They came to the next gen a bit too late when they should have lead (for a Jp studio) I hope they don't do the same for the PS4 and 720 and right now are working on next gen engines
I think they stood out quite nicely between 2008-2011
There's a couple of nice games, buts not the SEGA of old really and this year looks pretty basic (so far)
That's like saying Yuzo was part of Sega when in fact he wasn't
Well he was contracted to SEGA and SOJ teams helped him out , like with the brothers at Cam . Though I guess you can't really count them as In-House productions .
You mean the code?
No the IP rights to the game world and characters - Just like SEGA does with MSR, REZ but it didn't stop the real people who made it, making sequels in all but name.
Platinum could make a game that was Bay II in all but name, but she's such a class character it would have been a huge loss
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They did help out SEGA with Shining Force its even on their website (still),they've helped SEGA out a number of times. Yes the two brothers were contracted to SEGA Japan which is different I guess but it was still sort of In-House production . It really was after the 1st two games that SEGA had little to do with the series I think
Dont use the website trick. It doesn't say they helped out sonic planning it says they were developers, they were part of the same group designated to create the SHINING titles. That was always the case. Climax went on their own after SHF2. But they both weren't part of the company just attached. Sega's always been involved in SHF, they just didn't dictate what they had to do, until the big fiasco and fallout with Sega with the saturn SHF title.
They were but at that time they wasn't much hope of them making the journey to the 360 and its similar now ; loads here want the likes of Shining or Border Break to come the consoles but they're falling on death ear's . SEGA with its close links to PC Tech ever since Model 3 and that the carried through with Chinhiro, Lindberg should have been the Japanese Studio to make out the likes of the 360, but they never really did (bar the odd game) They came to the next gen a bit too late when they should have lead (for a Jp studio) I hope they don't do the same for the PS4 and 720 and right now are working on next gen engines
Sorry, what has that got to do with you not saying that Sega was still producing good games in their arcade divison during the early to mid noughties?
There's a couple of nice games, buts not the SEGA of old really and this year looks pretty basic (so far)
I thought it was a throwback to the Sega of old, Strong SOJ titles, Strong Sega west titles and strong second party support. Much like the Sega consumer divison of old back in the Genesis era.
Well he was contracted to SEGA and SOJ teams helped him out , like with the brothers at Cam . Though I guess you can't really count them as In-House productions .
Course not because he was able to copyright and own his music of the games he made at Sega.
No the IP rights to the game world and characters - Just like SEGA does with MSR, REZ but it didn't stop the real people who made it, making sequels in all but name.
Platinum could make a game that was Bay II in all but name, but she's such a class character it would have been a huge loss
Nope, i just said that in the previous post already. Stealing other people's comments and passing it off as your own is bad enough but to do it in replying to the post which comments you have stolen and passing it off as your own in some bizarre attempt to look like you've just thought of it? That's insane.
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Dont use the website trick
It not a website trick, But also confirmed Kan Naito in a old interview with Gamefan - when talking about Dark Savour
Sega was still producing good games in their arcade divison during the early to mid noughties?
If SEGA Arcade games were crap- No-one would be wanting asking for 360 ports now would they
?.
I thought it was a throwback to the Sega of old, Strong SOJ titles
Other than Yakuza and Binary (and to a point Sonic) what have been the strong SEGA console developed games (bar some great Arcade ports ) In-House games ?
Course not because he was able to copyright and own his music of the games he made at Sega
Did he for Shenmue ?
Nope, i just said that in the previous post already
No I have said this in countless Bay posts . There is a world of difference between a publisher just picking up the rights to a team that made and developed a game .
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It not a website trick, But also confirmed Kan Naito in a old interview with Gamefan - when talking about Dark Savour
It is because the website doesn't say they "supported" sonic planning. And the GFn article is baloney because he doesn't say that either.
If SEGA Arcade games were crap- No-one would be wanting asking for 360 ports now would they
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its taken you over six posts to come up with that? Try again.
Other than Yakuza and Binary (and to a point Sonic) what have been the strong SEGA console developed games (bar some great Arcade ports ) In-House games ?
You tell me since you consider SOJ titles to be the only games allowed to call themselves bonafide Sega games. And this is coming from a guy who hates the megadrive.
Did he for Shenmue ?
Yes, because SHENMUE came out on the megadrive.... ::)
No I have said this in countless Bay posts . There is a world of difference between a publisher just picking up the rights to a team that made and developed a game .
No you haven't, until i brought it up. BAYONETTA isn't a game Sega just walked in one day and acquired like COMPANY OF HEROES. Its a title like many other second party development that Sega has been involved in that Sega paid the development for from the beginning.
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Other than Yakuza and Binary (and to a point Sonic) what have been the strong SEGA console developed games (bar some great Arcade ports ) In-House games ?
You talk as if during the Genesis/Saturn Era, they had that many more Consumer games and teams.
Back then there was...
Sonic Team (with departures such as Ristar, Nights and Burning Rangers..)
Team Shinobi with Street of Rage, Shinobi, Golden Axe, Sakura Wars and the Phantasy Star games
Team Andromeda
Now...
Sonic Team (while not all games were great, you can't deny that they had huge departure undertakings within the Sonic series...)
Team Yakuza
And the RPG Team with Valkyria Chronicles and the Phantasy Star Online games.
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It is because the website doesn't say they "supported" sonic planning.
They did a lot of the coding , very much like G-Rev coded a lot of Ikaruga while they were still trying to get established , but it will always be Treasure that gets the credit .
its taken you over six posts to come up with that
Well if you don't like SEGA Arcade games, why would you want home ports ?
And this is coming from a guy who hates the megadrive.
I don't hate the MD at all. I just liked the Mega CD and Snes more.
Yes, because SHENMUE came out on the megadrive
You said the music he made at SEGA ; Well he did a bit of the Music to Shenmue which he wasn't able to copyright and I'm sure the same goes for the music to his Game Gear/MS ports of Sonic or Eye of the Beholder on the Mega CD
BAYONETTA isn't a game Sega just walked in one day
Platinium were trying to court many publishes. SEGA just game up with the money and agreed to take a hands off approach (which is what the team really wanted)
You talk as if during the Genesis/Saturn Era, they had that many more Consumer games and teams.
Mega Drive not so much . Saturn era is when SEGA consumer Team rose to the top of the list and where the Arcade Teams also then had dedicated lines consumer lines.
Sonic Team (with departures such as Ristar, Nights and Burning Rangers..)
Team Shinobi with Street of Rage, Shinobi, Golden Axe, Sakura Wars and the Phantasy Star games
Team Andromeda
Now...
Sonic Team (while not all games were great, you can't deny that they had huge departure undertakings within the Sonic series...)
Team Yakuza
And the RPG Team with Valkyria Chronicles and the Phantasy Star Online games.
Nope
Back inthe Saturn days you had
Sonic Team
Team Andromeda
AM#1
AM#2
AM#3
And then like 2 more Consumer Software Teams that made the likes of Magic Knight Rayearth, Deep Fear,Blue seed , Wings Arms, Wachenroder SEGA Rally Port
Doesn't come close these days at all, or even to the DC days where SEGA had 10 In-House software teams pumping out the classics.
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They did a lot of the coding , very much like G-Rev coded a lot of Ikaruga while they were still trying to get established , but it will always be Treasure that gets the credit .
No, they co developed the title, they weren't a support team brought in to help a more established team, they were both new teams at the time(if you coud call them even that) So stop using recent trends to prove a point of an era you obviously know nothing about.
Well if you don't like SEGA Arcade games, why would you want home ports ?
Yawn, try again before spinning someone's comments. Too bad you haven't answered the original question. If you thought they were so good back in the mid noughties, how come you didn't say so, when people were slagging Sega's games off in general. Its quite laughable how you keep dodging something you obviously cannot answer by sidelining it.Grow up.
I don't hate the MD at all. I just liked the Mega CD and Snes more.
Not what you said and you know it.
You said the music he made at SEGA ; Well he did a bit of the Music to Shenmue which he wasn't able to copyright and I'm sure the same goes for the music to his Game Gear/MS ports of Sonic or Eye of the Beholder on the Mega CD
I said music at the time of the genesis era which i eluded to by mentioning certain games. Again stop using recent parts of Sega history that you are familiar of and then try to judge it as something that they practiced in general.
Platinium were trying to court many publishes. SEGA just game up with the money
You don't say. ::)But then again Sega paid for these games.Own them too. I suggest you look up on the subject of copyright law under videogames.Nintendo did which is why the SEGA logo is still present on the sequel and will be copyrighted to them.
hands off approach (which is what the team really wanted)
I said that already.
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No, they co developed the title
So they go from not having anything to do with the game to go-developing the game ? And there's nothing new about Ikaruga nor is having little or start up coming making games for bigger corps - It's happen in the Zx spectrum days .
If you thought they were so good back in the mid noughties
I did >:(
That's why I bought Arcade ports like Outrun 2002, Spikeout, Virtual Tennis III, VF IV, Afterburner Climax, HOTD III, HOTD IV, Initial D, Gunblade NY and LA Machineguns pack, Ghpst Squad . Shame more weren't ported like Lets go Jungle and Border Break for starters
Not what you said and you know it
Very much what I said and think. I like the MD, but compared the likes of Saturn, Mega CD, MS or Snes it doesn't come close imo
I said music at the time of the genesis
Well you didn't and even in the Mega Drive years Yuzo didn't own all the trademarks to his music like with Sonic series on the Gamegear which his corp made for SEGA.
I suggest you look up on the subject of copyright law under videogames.Nintendo did which is why the SEGA logo is still present on the sequel and will be copyrighted to them
Anyone that loads up Daytona USA 2001 knows what a mess IP rights can be
Now people might want to give Hasbro the deal for making the game , I tend to give credit to SEGA and Genki for it. So I don't consider Bay II to be a SEGA game just having their logo will mean little to me
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So they go from not having anything to do with the game to go-developing the game ? And there's nothing new about Ikaruga nor is having little or start up coming making games for bigger corps - It's happen in the Zx spectrum days .
Your the one saying they hardly had anything to do with the game not me. Climax was quite intergral to SHINING's development. Not some hired team helping out a bigger team considering BOTH were new teams semi attacthed to Sega.
I did >:(
No you didn't. That's why you keep dodging the question.
Very much what I said and think. I like the MD, but compared the likes of Saturn, Mega CD, MS or Snes it doesn't come close imo
Absolute tosh. The MD had beter first party support, second party support and beter third party titles. Granted the SNES came up with some solid titles but they were few and far betwen compard to what he MD had on offer.
Well you didn't and even in the Mega Drive years Yuzo didn't own all the trademarks to his music like with Sonic series on the Gamegear which his corp made for SEGA.
Oh yes, because Sonic is a shining example of what i'm on about, even using a licensed game to try and prove a point too. Try again mate.
Anyone that loads up Daytona USA 2001 knows what a mess IP rights can be
Now people might want to give Hasbro the deal for making the game , I tend to give credit to SEGA and Genki for it. So I don't consider Bay II to be a SEGA game just having their logo will mean little to me
Yawn, use a better example than a licensed game to prove a point. Next thing you will be using STAR WARS ARCADE as an example. Point is Sega has paid something towards the games development, or the title couldn't have gotten canned in the first place. Second BAYONETTA isn't licensed by Sega its OWNED by them, so try again. This nonsense coming from someone who demanded Sega to buy Starbreeze and seemingly excited about Creative Asembly coming into the fold and what's happened recently with Relic is bagging on BAYONETTA not being a Sega title a game Sega actually owns the rights to.
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Preferably, I wouldn't mind a new IP in the RPG segment.
Then you'll be over the moon about the new BORDERBREAK RPG game.
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Then you'll be over the moon about the new BORDERBREAK RPG game.
The mobile phone game?
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Mega Drive not so much . Saturn era is when SEGA consumer Team rose to the top of the list and where the Arcade Teams also then had dedicated lines consumer lines.
Nope
Back inthe Saturn days you had
Sonic Team
Team Andromeda
AM#1
AM#2
AM#3
Doesn't come close these days at all, or even to the DC days where SEGA had 10 In-House software teams pumping out the classics.
And then like 2 more Consumer Software Teams that made the likes of Magic Knight Rayearth, Deep Fear,Blue seed , Wings Arms, Wachenroder SEGA Rally Port
What? You talk about published games not being relevant at all, yet you talk about them. All of these games were published by Sega or made by Western Studios. And if we can count western devs now, Sega has now Relic, Creative Assembly, Hardlight, Three Rings...yeah. And that is as much as the "10" consumer divisions they had in the DC Era...
Also AM1, 2 and 3 are still doing games. On Lindbergh they have released 4 racing games (R-Tuned, Race TV, Hummer, Harley Davidson...), HotD 4, EX, 2Spicy Ghost Squad Sequel and the Let's go.... games. Also there are the 2 interresting Shining Cross and Border Break games, that are frequently updated. Lots of stuff on Lindbergh/Ringedge. Overall tough yeah the Model 2/3 stuff was more and better at the time obviously.
YES, not many games got ports, but let's just take a look at the output. It's not as revolutionary and groundbreaking as it was back in the day, but the quantity isn't much lower at all.
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The mobile phone game?
Uh huh, official title...
BORDERBREAK Mobile: Gun Front Hurricane.(sigh)what a waste....
Like i said if Sega were to release this on console, then it'll be for the Wii U since its the only system out there at the moment that can mimic the touch screen controls of the arcade.
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What? You talk about published games not being relevant at all, yet you talk about them. All of these games were published by Sega or made by Western Studios. And if we can count western devs now, Sega has now Relic, Creative Assembly, Hardlight, Three Rings...yeah. And that is as much as the "10" consumer divisions they had in the DC Era...
Also AM1, 2 and 3 are still doing games. On Lindbergh they have released 4 racing games (R-Tuned, Race TV, Hummer, Harley Davidson...), HotD 4, EX, 2Spicy Ghost Squad Sequel and the Let's go.... games. Also there are the 2 interresting Shining Cross and Border Break games, that are frequently updated. Lots of stuff on Lindbergh/Ringedge. Overall tough yeah the Model 2/3 stuff was more and better at the time obviously.
YES, not many games got ports, but let's just take a look at the output. It's not as revolutionary and groundbreaking as it was back in the day, but the quantity isn't much lower at all.
I see the point you are making. The problem i think is people can't seperate Sega the publisher from Sega the developer from sega the company. This is both compounded by the fact that Sega use to be in the position that Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo still occupy.
Now as a developer is Sega still relevant? Anyone who has played BINARY DOMAIN can attest to their strengh of executing good game mechanics and ideas. The problem is how Sega has acted as a publisher since they've become a third party. Sega as a third party has sucked. it sucked back in the golden era of atari and colectovision and until recently it was a bad experience with the xbox Ps2 generation of systems.
Sega's strengh to me as a company producing game systems for home entertainment was that they always managed to supply a type of choice to someone intrested in their products. The reason i gave the Megadrive as an example is simply because that was the era where a sega consumer had a choice of playing a sega arcade port, a SOJ consumer title or a Sega west/american title and a title that they decided to publish because the original developer copuldn't afford to publish or didn't/wasn't allowed to publish the games themselves. Because of what happened, the Sega brand went beyond what it meant previously and evolved into something else. Before then it meant SPACE HARRIER, OUTRUN AFTERBURNER, the best of the arcade. Sega was the best of the arcade and still was an arcade brand. But that changed drastically. By the time the megadrive went kaput the name meant SONIC, ECCO THE DOLPHIN, VIRTUA FIGHTER, TOEJAM AND EARL etc. it symbolises the best of both console and arcade development. Its meaning had changed. It was no coincidence that sega's succesful period was when all the divisions at that time from SOJ to Sega of america were working to produce the best games they could either working to create a great sequel in Sonic 2 or giving the company a persona to draw in the crowd.
But during Sega's form as a third party while there has been strong and excellent titles, you could effectivly count them on all fingers. But during 2008-2011, things changed. During this period Sega started at least to act like they once were. You saw at least more arcade ports or should i say relavent arcade ports, SOJ developed titles which some were actually being localised, strong japanese second party support and good Sega western titles. I defy anyone here say they weren't at least spoilt for choice with what sega was offering as a third party at that time, whether you liked the games or not. Even the digital titles that were being released from sega was at least different and interesting to what they are a t the moment(hopefully this will change) Sega isn't just about SOJ or Sega west or whatever but a combination of these things, strong titles that made the company as unique in the nineties as they were during 2008-2011. When Sega fires on all cylinders they are unstoppable. Unfortunatly some of the attitudes that helped in their downfall still exists today. One such mentality is that "the game will speak for it self" and "we dont need to market it". That may work in the arcades when Sega titles easily stand out but much to BINARY DOMAIN's chargrin as well as a few others doesn't work in the consumer field.
Just because its a western title which sega either helped setup or acquired doesn't make it less sega. The sad truth at this moment in time is that the sega west titles have been saving the consumer division from having a disastrous financial report.
I'm not a fan of the recent arcade output because its just endless repeats of the same game(s) and that half of the titles released have been geared towards younger gamers or worse, gambling. But most people wouldn't know that because a lot of the titles have never been ported, it seemed that they were starting to do so a few years back by porting at least the best of these games but that was before this digital focus announcement.
As for number of teams. Well if you just count the SOJ official teams then yes but the reality is there were so many sub teams and attache contract teams within the company from the MD era onwards its hard to really count the actual teams they did have. And that's including the western teams Sega had acquired or formed at any previous time.
I mean during the DC era you not only had the 10 "lost" teams of Sega but you also had Crazy Game/climax Graphix or whatever they called them selves making titles for sega like ILLBLEED on a contract basis, Wrap graphics were effectivly creating second party games exclusivly for sega back in the saturn era and into the DC era which sega for some reason still control their IP and so on. Even Ancient's titles a team which more or less formed within sega much like camelot and Climax were a sub team that was never properly part of the sega setup but still associated with Sega. And after the DC era companies like Hitmaker, Sonic Team and Overworks were subcontracting their games to smaller teams to develop the titles on their slate. So yes we can pick off the official teams but the reality is there were more teams making games for sega than people like to think.
If anything SOJ is been man handled by management rather than lack of creative vision, which is something TA has eluded to.
So the point you make,Trip, is valid and correct but i feel many people need to understand that Sega's position in this market has always been a unique and different one. And long may it continue.
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Overall I do feel that Dreamcast and Genesis Era SEGA definitly was better on the Consumer side.
I just think that since they went 3rd Party they operate very simiilarly like they did in the Saturn Era. Focused on the Japanese audience, and a good amount of output was Arcade only.
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yet you talk about them. All of these games were published by Sega or made by Western Studios
Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.
And if we can count western devs now, Sega has now Relic, Creative Assembly, Hardlight, Three Rings...yeah. And that is as much as the "10" consumer divisions they had in the DC Era.
So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios
On Lindbergh they have released 4 racing games (R-Tuned, Race TV, Hummer, Harley Davidson...), HotD 4, EX, 2Spicy Ghost Squad Sequel and the Let's go.... games. Also there are the 2 interresting Shining Cross and Border Break games, that are frequently updated. Lots of stuff on Lindbergh/Ringedge. Overall tough yeah the Model 2/3 stuff was more and better at the time obviously.
Arcade is not in question . You make a lovely list and quite a lot of those games will never be ported home, nor to the current Arcade teams have home consumer pipe lines (well AM#3 do and to a point AM#2).
Your the one saying they hardly had anything to do with the game not me
No I said they help to make the game, which they did.
The MD had beter first party support, second party support and beter third party titles
1st party - When it comes tot that the Saturn and Snes got the best out of the likes of SEGA and Nintendo respectively imo.
Oh yes, because Sonic is a shining example of what i'm on about,
No different from Streets Of Rage . Using SEGA IP and where Yuzo's made the music and helped out with the making of the game, Only he wasn't able to trademark the music, not was he was Shenmue.
Next thing you will be using STAR WARS ARCADE as an example
Who do you credit for that game? SEGA or Lucas Arts- because they own the IP rights ? . So no try again , its just shows you what IP rights can do .
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Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.
So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios
You just contradicted yourself. Trips is talking about the ammount of studios that they back in the MD era that Sega had which included western studios. but of course ECCO and TOE JAM AND EARL was made by the brilliant minds of AM2. Gimme a break. You bag him on it then give him an example of western sega studios which include companies from the DC saturn and MD eras. Geez.
Arcade is not in question .
Still not answered the question though.
No I said they help to make the game, which they did.
No they didn't help make the game. They co developed it. CO DEVELOPED it. Not helped.
1st party - When it comes tot that the Saturn and Snes got the best out of the likes of SEGA and Nintendo respectively imo.
Wrong. The megadrive got the best out of Sega mainly with the ammount of titles, quality of titles and sheer ingenious of making the MD do things it wasn't designed for. Something that Nintendo nor the saturn was able to do.
No different from Streets Of Rage . Using SEGA IP and where Yuzo's made the music and helped out with the making of the game, Only he wasn't able to trademark the music, not was he was Shenmue.
He did trademark the music of SOR. What planet have you been? Using SHENMUE and Sonic really is a moot point when the main games he worked on he was trademarking his music.
Who do you credit for that game? SEGA or Lucas Arts- because they own the IP rights ? . So no try again , its just shows you what IP rights can do .
Oh you mean the fact Sega made STAR WARS ARCADE without Lucasfilm's permission and then they threatened to sue them until they came to an agrement? Oh yes IP rights dont do anything. Try again.
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Not that anyone cares but SEGA announced a new iOS game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgoHPdNaYo
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoIEksam2eJbMW-Oz--oFw4T5_yMf_fH3Z_5JnzKT5ULr_yuLMzg)
It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff.
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It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff
This is what I'm talking about . These days even die-hard SEGA fans don't get excited by so called big SEGA announcements
that Sega had which included western studios. but of course ECCO and TOE JAM AND EARL was made by the brilliant minds of AM2.
Stop it . I could make a huge list of titles that SEGA published in the Saturn and DC days - You know games like Quake, Quake 3, Duke, Enemy Zero, Amok, D2,Seaman and so on.
Those aren't In-House games by SOJ.
Still not answered the question though
>:D
If you don't like a Arcade game, why would want (and then buy) a home of port of the 'said' Arcade game ? . How about you answer that?
Something that Nintendo nor the saturn was able to do
Now you make me laugh . Given a lot of the better MD games wasn't even made in House , I'll look over that . But if we listen to some the Saturn wasn't able to do 3D , never mind being able to handle ports of the most advanced Arcade board at the time (mode 2) .
Yet SEGA gave us the likes of Zwei with PS beating graphics, the best RPG you'll ever play and near perfect ports of Model 2 games like Virtual Cop, Rally and having VF II running at the same speed and higher res than any Model 2 coin up;That's what happens when you have the brilliant minds at AM#2 on the case for you.
And if you want to quality then F-Zero, Pioltwings, Mario IV and Super Metroid will do nicely ;)
He did trademark the music of SOR. What planet have you been
I'm on about Sonic and how Ancient handle the GameGear/MS ports and yet Yuzo wasn't able to trademark the music even though his team made the games for SEGA.
Oh you mean the fact Sega made STAR WARS ARCADE without Lucasfilm's permission
Been reading again ? . I'm just pointing out that the IP holder now and gain has little or next to nothing to with the game.
Who do you credit for Far Cry on the X-Box Ubisoft Mon or the then IP holders Crytek?. What about TombRaider do you credit Edios for making the games ?. Look at Demon Souls is that a SONY game or a Fromsoftware game and even though I'm sure SONY still hold the rights (to Japan) it never stop FromSoftware for making the sequel for rival machines and a different publisher
IP is a messy business, but I tend to give credit to the developers myself
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This is what I'm talking about . These days even die-hard SEGA fans don't get excited by so called big SEGA announcements
You wouldn't know what makes a sega fan excited because you're hardly a sega fan yourself. Mr I think Nintendo made beter games than Sega did on the MD.
Stop it . I could make a huge list of titles that SEGA published in the Saturn and DC days - You know games like Quake, Quake 3, Duke, Enemy Zero, Amok, D2,Seaman and so on.
Those aren't In-House games by SOJ.
Enemy Zero was a second party game at that basis so was D2 and SEAMAN Kinda what i've been making with SHINING FORCE. Never said SOJ made the titles. Learn to read.Stay in SCHOOL.
If you don't like a Arcade game, why would want (and then buy) a home of port of the 'said' Arcade game ? . How about you answer that?
Yawn, funny you keep repeating something i never actually said. Now If you played and loved Sega arcade games and thought they were good back in the mid noughties why didn't you say they were good when people were bashing Sega for their entire games output? Now i actually played Sega arcade games, in the arcades and obviously longer than you have. I can tell you that their output has diminished from 2010 onwards. Any arcade fan can attest to that because the type of games they are making aren't exciting or original anymore. Its funny how you thought they were making a good showing last year. Which goes to show you haven't a clue about Sega's arcade output. But go read system 16, you know the site you keep advising me to read to catch up on the scene. While i go and actually play the games when i go on my next business trip.
Now you make me laugh .
You've been making me laugh for a while now.
Given a lot of the better MD games wasn't even made in House , I'll look over that . But if we listen to some the Saturn wasn't able to do 3D , never mind being able to handle ports of the most advanced Arcade board at the time (mode 2) .
Strange because i covered the whole MD spectrum. But keep repeating what i said in your own words, so you can look like you know what you're talking about.
Yet SEGA gave us the likes of Zwei with PS beating graphics, the best RPG you'll ever play and near perfect ports of Model 2 games like Virtual Cop, Rally and having VF II running at the same speed and higher res than any Model 2 coin up;That's what happens when you have the brilliant minds at AM#2 on the case for you.
So? A handful of great saturn titles doesn't make it a better games system. Its the least supported Sega system from Sega across the board.
And if you want to quality then F-Zero, Pioltwings, Mario IV and Super Metroid will do nicely ;)
SHINING FORCE, RANGER X TOE JAM AND EARL SONIC CD SONIC 2 SOR 1 and 2 AFTERBURNER 2 GOLDEN AXE GUNSTAR HEROES LANDSTALKER VIRTUA RACING,(which holds up nicely compared to Starfox) I can go on and on. The point is you cant because the list of great SNES games are limited. And as a supposed Sega core fan, someone defending the SNES says it al there is to know about you. its no wonder you support the Saturn, limited Sega software but abundant in third party support.
I'm on about Sonic and how Ancient handle the GameGear/MS ports and yet Yuzo wasn't able to trademark the music even though his team made the games for SEGA.
Im on about the majority of games he did with sega being trademarked. A handful of titles doesn't prove your point,when the point was he was allowed to do it quite early on.
Been reading again ? . I'm just pointing out that the IP holder now and gain has little or next to nothing to with the game.
I'm not the one who needed to read about Climax or go onto their website to find out whether or not they were involved in making SHINING. Strange that considering that you claim to be playing titles at the time. As for IP, It has everything to do with the game because its the protection of the games character and characters source material and likeness.
Who do you credit for Far Cry on the X-Box Ubisoft Mon or the then IP holders Crytek?. What about TombRaider do you credit Edios for making the games ?. Look at Demon Souls is that a SONY game or a Fromsoftware game and even though I'm sure SONY still hold the rights (to Japan) it never stop FromSoftware for making the sequel for rival machines and a different publisher
You really haven't a clue. You keep using titles that has nothing to do with the argument. This isn't like THE CONDUIT that Sega picked up to publish but High Voltage kept the rights to the title mainly because they made the games independently without a big games backer. The Platinum games were made soley by using the money that Sega gave that company to develop them. The fact you keep using games that has nothing to do with that type of practise indicates you are just arguing for the sake of it.Why because you lost this argument 10 posts back.
IP is a messy business, but I tend to give credit to the developers myself
Its only messy to those who have no idea how it works. Just like you.
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Everyone of those games was Made In-House by SEGA Japan - Where you get the idea they were made by Western corps I do not know.
So back in SEGA's hey day . SEGA had the likes of STI, Visual Concepts , No Cliche has its Western studios
Arcade is not in question . You make a lovely list and quite a lot of those games will never be ported home, nor to the current Arcade teams have home consumer pipe lines (well AM#3 do and to a point AM#2).
Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime.
You don't see me mentioning stuff like Bleach, Miku, Doraemon, or whatever else as important and noteworthy Sega developed games this Generation.
Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan.
Also even back then, many Arcade game weren't ported to consoles.
Particularly Model 3 stuff.
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Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime.
You don't see me mentioning stuff like Bleach, Miku, Doraemon, or whatever else as important and noteworthy Sega developed games this Generation.
Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan.
Also even back then, many Arcade game weren't ported to consoles.
Particularly Model 3 stuff.
Problem is Trips, you won the point ages back. Now TA will keep throwing stuff at you that has nothing to do with the original point you made just so he can win/beat you in another silly argument.That's how he operates I'm afraid.
Overall I do feel that Dreamcast and Genesis Era SEGA definitly was better on the Consumer side.
I just think that since they went 3rd Party they operate very simiilarly like they did in the Saturn Era. Focused on the Japanese audience, and a good amount of output was Arcade only.
That's been the problem. It was understandable at the time. Sega needed the money quickly when they became a thirdparty and started to make more or provide more sequels to their japan centric games. This got worse when the next great hope, Xbox bombed for Sega because no one in great abundance was buying the mainstream Sega titles. So they ended up focusing on japan because they were the games that were successful.
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It's kinda sad I used to be excited when Sega would announce stuff.
Well you can thank SEGA Europe/America for killing any chances of SEGA Japan (Or any Japanese games SEGA might want to publish) being relevant here. Clear to see that they think none of us would be interested in playing as Japanese robots, they probably think we would rather play as some sort of American soldier.
I mean look, we could have been playing Virtua Striker and Virtual On instead of the garbage that is Aliens, but no! Us Westerns are too mainstream to be into that, but don't doubt SEGA America or Europe! They are run by proper businessmen you know? Suits no what they are doing even though they have no experience in video games because they are BUSINESSMEN!
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Has anyone actually played ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES yet or are we repeating stuff from what reviewers said? Im not going to judge until i've actually played the title before condemning Sega west or this title. It seems to me there's a quick kneejerk reaction here to a game that everyone wanted to be good. Well we have all seen it before with Sega that whenever they release a title that they want to be successful, the reviewers come out in force just to knock it down. BINARY DOMAIN suffered that fate. So why am i going to listen to what reviewers say when we all know half of them have an anti Sega slant. All Sega west is guilty of is their poor marketing skills among other things and SOJ's indirection of what they want the SEGA brand to be about. VO and VS should be released here but i'm not going to blame another game because those two titles didn't get the chance(yet) to be released.
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Well you can thank SEGA Europe/America for killing any chances of SEGA Japan (Or any Japanese games SEGA might want to publish) being relevant here
High Time we blamed SEGA Japan far too late getting behind a multi platform route, next gen pipelines that were well behind the rest
I mean look, we could have been playing Virtua Striker and Virtual On instead of the garbage that is Alien
What Model 2 ports is the way forward for SEGA. I got news for you mate, not many Japanese went out on bought the likes of VO Force on the 360.
SEGA Japan needs to take a lot of the blame . Out of them all SEGA Europe done a pretty good job
Well ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for AnimeWell ok, first of all Magic Knight Rayeartch, Blue Seed and Wachenroder are extremly obscure Japan-only games. 2 of them actually licenced, and 1 where the Art and the Design is made by a guy usually known for Anime
They were all In-House, Blueseed and MKR sold in ok numbers and lots of times Art will be outsourced to a design group be that Lunar, Virtual ON, Fighting Vipers II , Sakura Wars and so on .
Also Deep Fear is made by a company called ISCO previously known for completly different games, it's nothing to do with In-House Sega Japan
Play and finish the game and the credits read like a who's who of SEGA . It was a CS software game , don't read Wikipedia ;) :) .
Particularly Model 3 stuff
VF 3, SEGA Rally II, Get Bass, VO II, Virtual Striker not ported to the DC ?. Never mind the countless NA@MI ported to the system
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. BINARY DOMAIN suffered that fate. So why am i going to listen to what reviewers say when we all know half of them have an anti Sega slant
BD got very nice reviews in the press, It was SEGA's inept PR dept that let the side down.
I have Aliens it is poor (not has bad has some make out) but yes its a 5 to 6 out 10 game and the bugs (no pun meant) and AI in the game are a complete joke . SEGA should take Gearbox to court and sue the pants off them for this unfinished game .
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BD got very nice reviews in the press, It was SEGA's inept PR dept that let the side down.
I have Aliens it is poor (not has bad has some make out) but yes its a 5 to 6 out 10 game and the bugs (no pun meant) and AI in the game are a complete joke . SEGA should take Gearbox to court and sue the pants off them for this unfinished game .
BD got mixed reviews in the press, more negative than good. And you know, that i put the blame for BD's poor showing in the PR thing. Sometimes i wonder if this is payback for what happened over YAKUZA when it was meant to debut at the E3, but the same people cant still be working there. Point is reviews are not really a guide to whether a game is good or bad anymore. Not how they were back in the days when games were games and game reviewers were actually games players.
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High Time we blamed SEGA Japan far too late getting behind a multi platform route, next gen pipelines that were well behind the rest
Dont start that again. I dont think and the evidence is out there that multiplatform games would have helped Sega at all back in that period. If anything the same pattern keeps happening. SOJ games sell poorly, Sega west or Sega second party titles sold across platforms sell quite strongly. Only Sonic is the exception.
What Model 2 ports is the way forward for SEGA. I got news for you mate, not many Japanese went out on bought the likes of VO Force on the 360.
They didn't buy MARZ either but then that wasn't a port and it wasn't that good either.
SEGA Japan needs to take a lot of the blame . Out of them all SEGA Europe done a pretty good job
SOJ management has been out of sync for a while now. Surely i thought things might have changed with Satomi around but all he's done is let the Sega management do their own thing while he does whatever he does, mainly buying up stupid toy companies. Definatly there need to be more blood in the SOJ setup across the board.
They were all In-House, Blueseed and MKR sold in ok numbers and lots of times Art will be outsourced to a design group be that Lunar, Virtual ON, Fighting Vipers II , Sakura Wars and so on .
Play and finish the game and the credits read like a who's who of SEGA . It was a CS software game , don't read Wikipedia ;) :)
I dont think Trips said they weren't Inhouse. What he said art and design was done outside of SOJ as well as the fact that those games were licensed at least some of them. In that he was correct as well as the games being obscure. MAGIC KNIGHT RAYEARTH though was a big title but EVANGELION and SAKURA TAISEN defiantly overshadowed it at that period.
VF 3, SEGA Rally II, Get Bass, VO II, Virtual Striker not ported to the DC ?. Never mind the countless NA@MI ported to the system
Pity the saturn didn't get enuff Sega ports. Which is why its my frustrating machine. Great potential never realised.
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BD got mixed reviews in the press, more negative than good. And you know, that i put the blame for BD's poor showing in the PR thing
Where? it got quite nice reviews in the major sites like IGN and Eurogamer . Sure the review marks should have been higher, but it did quite well in the reviews stakes .
They didn't buy MARZ either but then that wasn't a port and it wasn't that good either
It wasn't great for sure , but it sold way more than the DC or 360 VO games, maybe even more than the Saturn version in the end .
Surely i thought things might have changed with Satomi around but all he's done is let the Sega management do their own thing while he does whatever he does
He promised a end to constant studio changes , yet under him SEGA Japan gone through countless In-Studio changes.
What he said art and design was done outside of SOJ as well as the fact that those games
Art can always be handled outside and its happened in many In-House SEGA games. That wasn't the point:but In-House games and Western tiles ; All the games I listed were made In-House and no western at all. It was SEGA Japan that their best really .
Pity the saturn didn't get enuff
Saturn had plenty of Model 2 ports and then quite a lot of Arcade ST-V from SEGA and other corps as well as countless CP 2 ports and so on . DC and Saturn was a golden era for Arcade ports for many and where SEGA AM# Team also really took on developing consumer titles to their heart and not only tried to out do each other, but the consumer Teams them self . It still amazing to see how close AM#2 got Virtual Cop and AM#3 with Last Bronx to their Arcade counterparts given the massive gulf in spec's between the systems
The Mega CD was the system that SOJ letdown with little Arcade ports , sad given it had the Hardware to handle the games at the time
I don't think and the evidence is out there that multiplatform games would have helped Sega at all back in that period
SEGA Japan looked too much at home in the beginning . It was clear games made for the west and multi platform was the way to go very early in . Sadly SEGA was late to see that, lets hope SOJ doesn't make the same mistake next gen.
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Where? it got quite nice reviews in the major sites like IGN and Eurogamer . Sure the review marks should have been higher, but it did quite well in the reviews stakes .
Oh you can find them. Plenty of mags, negative, mixed positive. Shame really
It wasn't great for sure , but it sold way more than the DC or 360 VO games, maybe even more than the Saturn version in the end .
Well of course it did it was on a bigger system but 120 000 copies isn't much in my book.
He promised a end to constant studio changes , yet under him SEGA Japan gone through countless In-Studio changes.
Unfortunately that's just the tip of the iceberg. An iceberg that helped sink the Titanic and ended up sinking as well. Anyway not my problem now.
Art can always be handled outside and its happened in many In-House SEGA games. That wasn't the point:but In-House games and Western tiles ; All the games I listed were made In-House and no western at all. It was SEGA Japan that their best really .
That wasn't even Trips point either. But he can say what his point was not me.
Saturn had plenty of Model 2 ports and then quite a lot of Arcade ST-V from SEGA and other corps as well as countless CP 2 ports and so on . DC and Saturn was a golden era for Arcade ports for many and where SEGA AM# Team also really took on developing consumer titles to their heart and not only tried to out do each other, but the consumer Teams them self . It still amazing to see how close AM#2 got Virtual Cop and AM#3 with Last Bronx to their Arcade counterparts given the massive gulf in spec's between the systems
Come on, there were tons more Sega arcade titles that never saw the light of day on the Saturn that should have and output from the SOJ consumer teams, in house and second party? That was a joke. Sure we got some classics but not as many as the saturn deserved. And definatly not all of them that weren't international and wasn't japan centric If anything i see that system as being the perfect and closest game system that Capcom never made.
The Mega CD was the system that SOJ letdown with little Arcade ports , sad given it had the Hardware to handle the games at the time
But that system was covered with everything else by Sega but really it was an addon. The Saturn was a bonafide console that should have gotten a bit more and better.
SEGA Japan looked too much at home in the beginning . It was clear games made for the west and multi platform was the way to go very early in . Sadly SEGA was late to see that, lets hope SOJ doesn't make the same mistake next gen.
SOJ didn't have a choice to but to look home. Anyhow i disagree that they just focused at the japan market at the beginning its just the titles they were really batting for with western appeal didn't do well and other games ended up getting canned. now is this due to management? Yes to a degree it is but other factors did play there part.But you can't soley blame Sega for this i blame the consumers to a part, Sega's free wheeling with their subsidiaries/teams at the time among other things. Also while SOJ ended up focusing on one market they went the other way with Sega west by focusing too much on america and europe which ended up hurting the SOJ releases earmarked for the west. I keep harping on about the genesis era and i do because it was a perfect balance between what the divisions of sega had to do to become the big player in the home games market. At this moment in time while they have the inhouse talent, have the pull to attract the best contract studios and have some of the best of western development, Sega has failed to ultilise any of this and appears that they cant lead themselves out of a friging paperbag. I hope things might change but i put my money where my mouth is and sold any intrest in Sega i use to have apart from a 1 percentage. If they get better that's good, but im not wiling to take that risk with them anymore. I perfer to be a long suffering fan that buys their games and not one that has a stake in them.
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Oh you can find them. Plenty of mags, negative, mixed positive
I'm not being funny but even most of the major mag's gave it decent reviews .
If one does a search we'll not doubt find a reviews of Aliens Marines getting a high score .
Most did give BD a lot of praise . It was the inept PR that let the side down with next to no Major PR push in the press and nothing on TV and for trying to launch and push a brand new IP that's is utter pants .
Well of course it did it was on a bigger system but 120 000 copies isn't much in my book
Last time I looked at the figures it was more than 200,000 copies sold .
Unfortunately that's just the tip of the iceberg
It is , but its the same old problems . SEGA Japan either shipping games in a unfinished state and countless and seemingly endless studio restructuring and Team name changing .
Sega arcade titles that never saw the light of day on the Saturn that should have and output from the SOJ consumer teams, in house and second party
All the major Model 2 games were ported to the Saturn and not only did AM#1, AM#2 and AM#3 and dedicated consumer pipe lines in their Arcade Teams SEGA also used various Arcade shows to show off its consumer titles ports like VO and VF II.
Those days are long gone .
That wasn't even Trips point either
I was talking to trip about In-House SEGA Japan titles .
SOJ didn't have a choice to but to look home
SEGA Japan did to a point . They should have done what Capcom, Fromsoftware, Namco, Konami and even the likes of Square done . And that was very early in to have most games go multi platform , looking to the west more and more for sales .
SEGA Japan was too internal looking and too late to really back the next gen consoles
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I'm not being funny but even most of the major mag's gave it decent reviews .
If one does a search we'll not doubt find a reviews of Aliens Marines getting a high score .
Most did give BD a lot of praise . It was the inept PR that let the side down with next to no Major PR push in the press and nothing on TV and for trying to launch and push a brand new IP that's is utter pants .
I don't think BD was a critical bomb but an aggregate score this low
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/binary-domain/critic-reviews
is definitely not helping to move any units. PR was definitely to blame, but so were the developers for making something that looked uninteresting and garnered unremarkable scores. The game does flirt with greatness in its final act, but it takes a long time to get there and there are numerous issues dragging the experience down in general. In this case, failure is a group effort.
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The problem is that one of the pillars just crashed.
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A release of Kenzan around the Valkyria Chronicles period (late 2008/sping 2009) would have been really good for the Franchise I think. Given how it's unrelated to previous games, and supposedly the best in the Franchise by Fans.
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I'm not being funny but even most of the major mag's gave it decent reviews .
Not the majority of the whole reviwer scene though.Its really in the middle overall.
If one does a search we'll not doubt find a reviews of Aliens Marines getting a high score .
But that isn't getting mixed reviews so not the same thing. Overall the score is negative. Overall BD had a mixed score. Nice try but no cigar.
Last time I looked at the figures it was more than 200,000 copies sold .
Nope it was 120 000 and less. It never reached 200 and i know that for a fact.They didn't bother to release it as part of their best sellers line, which DORORO and SHINOBI did because that sold to expectations. MARZ never did.
It is , but its the same old problems . SEGA Japan either shipping games in a unfinished state and countless and seemingly endless studio restructuring and Team name changing .
Like what exactly. What game did SOJ ship unfinished?
All the major Model 2 games were ported to the Saturn and not only did AM#1, AM#2 and AM#3 and dedicated consumer pipe lines in their Arcade Teams SEGA also used various Arcade shows to show off its consumer titles ports like VO and VF II.
Yawn that's like saying all the major capcom games got released. Well major titles aren't the majority, they're just well known. A lot of titles didn't make it on to saturn. And here's a hit not all of them were model 2 either.
Those days are long gone .
Like multi platform support. Its all digital, baby.
I was talking to trip about In-House SEGA Japan titles .
But he wasn't. So you should listen to people more.
SEGA Japan did to a point . They should have done what Capcom, Fromsoftware, Namco, Konami and even the likes of Square done . And that was very early in to have most games go multi platform , looking to the west more and more for sales .
Apart from Sonic what SOJ title that's gone MP has done well? BINARY DOMAIN? Gimme a break. Sega has had all their big hits via exclusives to whatever platform it was tied to.
SEGA Japan was too internal looking and too late to really back the next gen consoles
Sega west wasn't though with the titles they managed to get into contract for development. Pity the main house didn't get it on quick enough.
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Not the majority of the whole reviwer scene though
Sure you'll always get the odd one, but in the main the game reviewed decently .
But that isn't getting mixed reviews so not the same thing.
Have look at what EGM and the Guardian have given the game ;) :P).
Nope it was 120 000 and less
Must have been Initial D then , sorry.
What game did SOJ ship unfinished
?
Sonic 06, PSU, Sonic Heroes , Sonic Unsealed, Nights II . Sonic 06 was a disgrace and happened under sammy
Well major titles aren't the majority, they're just well known
You'll only port games which made money in the Arcade's you'll not port flops . And there was plenty of Arcade ports to the Saturn by SEGA, Capcom, Tatio and a host of other corps (most so shooter corps).
Its all digital, baby
Sadly we don't have the broadband infrastructure to handle that yet. Disc based games are still where its at and you can be the 360 II and PS4 will have a disc drive . And most of the best selling consoles games have all be retail disc based games and also then to be multi platform ones too.
But he wasn't
I was .
Apart from Sonic what SOJ title that's gone MP has done well? BINARY DOMAIN? Gimme a brea
Bar Sonic what game does SEGA Japan have that sells over a million copies ? .
That's one if its major troubles and selling a brand new IP late in to a console life cycle is hard, never mind when you launch it with next to no PR support and TV push.
Sega west wasn't though with the titles they managed to get into contract for development
But SEGA Japan is where the bulk of the console staff work and the main people that made the games we loved . They should have been put to work on the 360 and PS3 much earlier
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Sure you'll always get the odd one, but in the main the game reviewed decently .
Have look at what EGM and the Guardian have given the game ;) :P).
I know what the guardian has given the game. And its more than the odd review. There's enough lukewarm reviews out there to counter the positive reviews that the game got. Which is why overall it was in the middle.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/binary-domain
Loathed to use it but from all the collected scores from some magazines/sites its an overall middle average score. And from the stuff i've seen outside of that, its been from positive to average which meant it wouldn't change anything.
Must have been Initial D then , sorry.
A lot of Sega games on PS2 sold between the 100-200 000 mark. it was only VF4 and RGG that went beyond the 200 000 barrier.
Sonic 06, PSU, Sonic Heroes , Sonic Unsealed, Nights II . Sonic 06 was a disgrace and happened under sammy
Did they? SONIC HEROES didn't happen under sammy since the buyout happened between 2003 and 2004. Which is when that game got released. PSU was way into development before sammy got on the scene as well. Again sammy has left sega to do their own thing which is a good and bad thing. Its just the higher corp stuff that affects both companies that you should be worried.
You'll only port games which made money in the Arcade's you'll not port flops . And there was plenty of Arcade ports to the Saturn by SEGA, Capcom, Tatio and a host of other corps (most so shooter corps).
Come on, not every game sega ported needed to be a hit in the arcade, which they proved on porting certain titles on the MS and MD. And were talking about Sega not their third parties. If you were a fan of Capcom arcade titles or arcade games in general, you were well sorted. but Sega? forget it.The saturn is the least supported Sega game.
Sadly we don't have the broadband infrastructure to handle that yet. Disc based games are still where its at and you can be the 360 II and PS4 will have a disc drive . And most of the best selling consoles games have all be retail disc based games and also then to be multi platform ones too.
Hey, dont tell me tell sega.
I was .
He wasn't. And he was the one making the point. Shouldn't you respond by addressing that point instead of going into another tangent?
Bar Sonic what game does SEGA Japan have that sells over a million copies ? .
Silly question since i never said SOJ sold over a million units. I said they have had more hits using the exclusive model than the multiplatform model which is a fact. And here's a hint, you dont need to sell over a million units to have a hit.
That's one if its major troubles and selling a brand new IP late in to a console life cycle is hard, never mind when you launch it with next to no PR support and TV push.
Hey, but the reviews should have helped it right? I wonder why it didn't. Oh i agree that the PR part was the sole reason thatt he game didn't sell over here in the west but i dont think they went about the title the correct way anyhow.
But SEGA Japan is where the bulk of the console staff work and the main people that made the games we loved . They should have been put to work on the 360 and PS3 much earlier
After the fiasco with the Xbox and the cancellations? I find it understandable why they weren't put to work on systems that was too expensive to develop for them at the time. They went the cheap route in order to bring back the profits which is what they're doing now with going full tilt into digital. Whether we agree with it is another thing entirely.
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Can you guys stop arguing? This thread is for games Sega is releasing in 2013.
Well when SEGA brings out something noteworthy I'll guess we'll talk about it .
Loathed to use it
Like I said in the main it decent reviews . It was SEGA inept PR that let the game down badly .
PSU was way into development before sammy got on the scene as well.
It doesn't matter . The game wasn't finished but was shipped out and Sonic 06 was a complete disgrace to be shipped . Sammy promised it would end and they would end the endless Team changes , yet SEGA under sammy had like 2 to 3 Team name changes and restructuring. So much so that even SEGA die Hard fans find it hard to know what Team does what and what the Team is called these days .
but Sega? forget it.The saturn is the least supported Sega game.
VF, VF II, Last Bronx, Out Run, Space Harrier, VC , VC II, Winter Heat, Decathlete, Die Hard Arcade, Power Drift, Golden Axe Duel, V, Rad Rally/Gale Racer, Sega Rally, All Japan Pro , Baku Baku, Daytona USA , Manx TT, House of the Dead , Sky Target , Virtual On , Fighting Vipers, Last Bronx , Sega Touring Car, After Burner II, Galaxy Force II
There's more but that's off the top my head .
Hey, dont tell me tell sega
I think SEGA knows where is why they still support Disc based games for the home consoles .
He wasn't.
But he was responding to my post and I was on about SEGA Japan.
but the reviews should have helped it right?
Did it really help the likes of Vanquished ? I'm not so sure how much impact having Mega reviews does this days for new IP tbh mate
Silly question since i never said SOJ sold over a million units.
And that's their trouble in the age of High Def Big games you need more million sellers
After the fiasco with the Xbox and the cancellations?
Yeah but this gen it was different and backing the West and MS more was the way forward
I love to know why we aren't right now playing PSO II on the 360 and PS3 , never mind waiting to play the PC version . To me PSO II would be a million seller easy on the PS3 and 360
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Well when SEGA brings out something noteworthy I'll guess we'll talk about it .
You tell 'em. Anyway part of the discussion were having has involved their next titles and what they should do for the next systems so its on topic.
Like I said in the main it decent reviews . It was SEGA inept PR that let the game down badly .
Haven't disputed you about the PR, no need to keep repeating it. The scores is another thing but there's no point since were not going to agree.
It doesn't matter . The game wasn't finished but was shipped out and Sonic 06 was a complete disgrace to be shipped . Sammy promised it would end and they would end the endless Team changes , yet SEGA under sammy had like 2 to 3 Team name changes and restructuring. So much so that even SEGA die Hard fans find it hard to know what Team does what and what the Team is called these days .
Well it does matter. you can't blame the outcome of SONIC HEROES and the like before the company has had any time to make any real influence on them. If anything the problem is that sammy has left sega to their own devices and its pretty much carried on in the same disastrous fashion as it was before. SONIC 2006 was Naka's fault in my humble opinion. Maybe things should be run better but i think sammy has helped sega along the way as well as hinder it.
VF, VF II, Last Bronx, Out Run, Space Harrier, VC , VC II, Winter Heat, Decathlete, Die Hard Arcade, Power Drift, Golden Axe Duel, V, Rad Rally/Gale Racer, Sega Rally, All Japan Pro , Baku Baku, Daytona USA , Manx TT, House of the Dead , Sky Target , Virtual On , Fighting Vipers, Last Bronx , Sega Touring Car, After Burner II, Galaxy Force II
There's more but that's off the top my head .
And your point is what? ORUN SPACE HARRIER GALAXY FORCE 2 AB2 was also on the MD and every other Sega system and add on prior to Saturn. VF VF2, DAYTONA USA, VC VC2,DIE HARD ARCADE HOTD, VO were the major titles that was always going to be put on the saturn. WINTER HEAT and DEC was pulled into strentghen the defunct Sega sports line. But again that's not even a fraction of what Sega had in the arcades at that point. Games that they needed to really pull the fight against sony. in japan it worked for a while because they had popular arcade titles and good SOJ inhouse titles that appealed to the japanese. Over here they just had the arcade games that were quickly being over shadowered and no real in house support on games that they needed to entice the americans/europeans into the mix. Like i said not the strongest supported Sega system compared to its predecessors and inheritor.
I think SEGA knows where is why they still support Disc based games for the home consoles .
Well considering they're knee dip in digital it seems not. I can accept it if they were going to just digital distrubute AAA to AA titles instead on releasing them on disc but were not even getting that. Were getting stinking mobage/mobile games or diugital titles made for handhelds. i mean were not even going to get a proper RGG title for the PS4 and how many of us are going to splash out the moolah just to get that? You? Me? I wouldn't pay for a brand new games system from Sony because i don't want my cash going towards a dirty competitor like Sony. its worse for me because i'm only interested in playing the sega titles and not anything else and no one yet knows if sega is really going to strongly support the next systems properly. Judging from this current generation, maybe not.
But he was responding to my post and I was on about SEGA Japan.
Like i said your and his argument not mine.
Did it really help the likes of Vanquished ? I'm not so sure how much impact having Mega reviews does this days for new IP tbh mate
VANQUISH is funny because its actually considered to be succesful from how much it sold. The puzzle is that the evidence isn't seen in the retail charts. i would have to check again but the ammount of units it shifted was way before any price drop was put into circulation. So maybe it did help.
And that's their trouble in the age of High Def Big games you need more million sellers
That really depends on the games budget. Sega doesn't spend millions and millions and millions on a game budget anyway. A game is considered workable for them even if it breaks even but then that may have some trouble in continuing where they would have wanted. VALKYRIA is a good example of that but they went the cheap route with the follow ups while not making much income on the engine investment. While RGG did go according to plan and they cashed in on the engine that they invested in. BD is the example of not even breaking even and flopping worldwide. So not only will they not have made profit on the game but the engine wont be able to crawl any more investment unless they use it for another game. much like what happened with SHENMUE 2.
Yeah but this gen it was different and backing the West and MS more was the way forward
Yes but its still part of the same behaviour that surfaced during the previous gen. All SOJ did was pass the buck instead of doing it themselves. The proper SOJ use to sell their arcade ports and made home console games that appealed to everyone. Which was then complimented by the western made games from their subsidaries and second party support from japan. This happened for the Genesis which is the perfect example of this while the DC and MS also has this example, while the Saturn and some of the add ons didn't. Its no coincidence that among many sega fans it is the MS MD and DC that are fondly remebered in the west because each of these systems had that balance. This current gen we have only started to get a few arcade ports and no real SOJ support outside Sonic and RGG that hardly gets localised properly. Everything else is on digital/mobile or hand held.
This is what sega did before. They started to concentrate on the handhelds rather than on the bigger systems and while they made some profits they completly ducked the problem involving the bigger system development. This gen the same thing has occured but on a larger scale. Big systems not working out? turn to the handheld and digital mobile to maximise profit. Now the difference is that this side of things is going to take precedent than it did before.
I love to know why we aren't right now playing PSO II on the 360 and PS3 , never mind waiting to play the PC version . To me PSO II would be a million seller easy on the PS3 and 360
Maybe to do with licensing issues, the way they are doing it now Sega makes the money on using it on systems where they dont have to pay much of a sever or third party fee.
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you can't blame the outcome of SONIC HEROES and the like before the company has had any time to make any real influence on them
Sonic 06 you can and how many Team changes have we had under Sammy ? Do you even know what Team does what or what they are all called these days , with out looking at Sammy year reports .
And your point is what?
Arcade ports,quite a lot of them stunning ports and no the likes of Decathlete weren't pulled in help SEGA Sports but were ST-V ports and made with an eye to the then Atlanta Olympic games . In those days like with the DC the AM# Teams were really focued not just on the Arcade but also the home and had lines devoted to consoles
Well considering they're knee dip in digital it seems not.
All the major games still come on disc - that is not going to change any time soon.
i mean were not even going to get a proper RGG title for the PS4i mean were not even going to get a proper RGG title for the PS4
I bet we will . Though I wish the team would move on and do something new and make a new IP
Sega doesn't spend millions and millions and millions on a game budget anyway.
The Yakuza games cost a bomb to make, SEGA spends millions on each Sonic I bet PSO II cost a ton to make and one look at the polish on Binary Domain tells me that was a multi million production . SEGA needs a bit more game with the polish and care that the likes of BD and PSO II had lavished on them.
Maybe to do with licensing issues
No idea why , but just going on the Beta The game is just increasable it feels, looks, sounds and plays like a SEGA game. Its stunning and yet 360,PS3 users are left out , when we should all be playing it right now on our consoles (360 and PS3)
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Sonic 06 you can and how many Team changes have we had under Sammy ?
No i blame Naka for that concerning Sonic. The team changes is all to do with Sega not sammy.
Do you even know what Team does what or what they are all called these days , with out looking at Sammy year reports .
I do actually. But that isn't sammy's fault and i dont recall them saying they would stop that either. The whole team re organising and consilidation was happening way before Sammy came onto the scene.
Arcade ports,quite a lot of them stunning ports and no the likes of Decathlete weren't pulled in help SEGA Sports but were ST-V ports and made with an eye to the then Atlanta Olympic games . In those days like with the DC the AM# Teams were really focued not just on the Arcade but also the home and had lines devoted to consoles
VF was hardly stunning it was a shoddy port. And the sports games? They were that was the point in porting the sports games. And like i said there were way more arcade games that they could have ported but didn't. The home side was really lacking. Compard to diferent sega eras.
All the major games still come on disc - that is not going to change any time soon.
But Sega isn't supporting that fact. We just have to look at what's coming this year to see that.
I bet we will . Though I wish the team would move on and do something new and make a new IP
I doubt the first RGG game will be a sequel to five. But we shall see.
The Yakuza games cost a bomb to make, SEGA spends millions on each Sonic I bet PSO II cost a ton to make and one look at the polish on Binary Domain tells me that was a multi million production . SEGA needs a bit more game with the polish and care that the likes of BD and PSO II had lavished on them.
Compared to how much money that their competitors pour in to create games, Sega's game budgets are on the cheaper end of the scale. RGG was around 20 million the third game also came close to that budget as well. BD was around that number and VALKYRIA was 15-16 million. So they are not pouring in millions and millions and millions on game titles considering they dont make that many big AAA projects.
No idea why , but just going on the Beta The game is just increasable it feels, looks, sounds and plays like a SEGA game. Its stunning and yet 360,PS3 users are left out , when we should all be playing it right now on our consoles (360 and PS3)
Who knows, they're making a killing on the platforms already out there, on the main systems they probably would have to give a larger cut.
Your fucking argument is pointless. Fuck.
I'm so sick of people arguing about Sega. Jesus Christmas.
Can a moderator here make a forum topic with an actual list of upcoming Sega games in 2013 and release dates?
Even better, a frequently updated list on the main page. One without the inclusion vaporware and bullshit rumors. Just the facts.
That's a grown up response to something you don't like. Keep it up.
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No i blame Naka for that concerning Sonic
Naka had long started to make his move away . One needs to blame the PS2 Shinobi producer for the mess that was the game and Sammy needs to take the flack for letting the game ship and forcing the game out for the 15th anniversary
But that isn't sammy's fault and i dont recall them saying they would stop that either.
It should be and in April 2004 Hajime Satomi did a Interview where he said, he'll stop the team changes and bring all the Studios back into SEGA and all under 'one group' as that was part of SEGA trouble and how they were losing focus after all the Teams spliting and having their own Team names and identies
That lasted about a year
VF was hardly stunning it was a shoddy port
It was a brilliant port,but rushed out (a SEGA trademark for early software) soon it was to be improved with Remix which looked way better than the Arcade Model 1 version.
And like i said there were way more arcade games that they could have ported but didn't.
One could say that about every SEGA system ever made. The Saturn enjoyed some of the best SEGA ports of Arcade around, all the more impressive given the massive gulf in spec's between Model 2 and Saturn.
But Sega isn't supporting that fact
Yakuza 5 shipped on disc, The new Sonic you can bet will ship on disc and so will most of SEGA new games on non hand held consoles .
Compared to how much money that their competitors pour in to create games
The size of the Team needed to make Yakuza games is massive and then there's the detail and resaerch that needed for their games , Its a massive and huge production and you can bet more expensive than most Capcom or FromSoftware productions and Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Gen had massive ammounts of money lavished on them
Who knows, they're making a killing on the platforms already out there
And yet PSO has always sold better on the consoles . SEGA could be making more of a killing
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Naka had long started to make his move away . One needs to blame the PS2 Shinobi producer for the mess that was the game and Sammy needs to take the flack for letting the game ship and forcing the game out for the 15th anniversary
Nope it was naka's fault. The long decline of Sonic happened under Naka's watch and that includes 2006. I'm not going to blame other individuals trying to salvage the mess that naka shouldn't have let happen. And sega had been doing anniversary tie ins for some time now so i can't see how they would rush such an important game in order to tie in with the aniversary as they would have known more in advance.
It should be and in April 2004 Hajime Satomi did a Interview where he said, he'll stop the team changes and bring all the Studios back into SEGA and all under 'one group' as that was part of SEGA trouble and how they were losing focus after all the Teams spliting and having their own Team names and identies
That lasted about a year
He never said that. here's what he said.
Sammy will also have a greater share of the holding company's management. Satomi will be chairman and president, with Sega president Hisao Oguchi as vice chairman. Sammy representatives will hold three of the company's five directorships, including both executive directorships. "Unfortunately, Sega has been in the red for nearly 10 years," said Satomi, explaining the decision to lessen the power of Sega's directors. "It would tighten things up if the members that had directing position and representative rights took responsibility."
The closer alliance between Sega and Sammy "will create a truly integrated and powerful entertainment company," Satomi said. A chart of the relative sales and market capitalization of Japan's biggest game publishers and amusement companies put Sega Sammy Holdings in second place, well ahead of Konami and just behind Nintendo. Satomi claimed that it will be able to "catch up and surpass Nintendo as the number-one company" over the course of its upcoming three-year reorganization.
Sega and Sammy will both continue to trade under their existing names, logos, and brands. However, the holding company -- staffed by some 50 employees, working with a budget of 10 billion yen -- will oversee the general direction and management of both. In Satomi's words, Sega Sammy holdings will "focus on planning and administration, delegating explicit authorities and responsibilities to subsidiaries, in order to achieve the optimization of group management."
As a more concrete example of cooperation and coordination between the two companies, Satomi pointed to their recent use of the Hokuto no Ken license. Sammy produced a pachinko machine based on the popular action comic series last year, which became a surprise hit. Sega was able to capitalize on its popularity by producing a related arcade game and distribute Sammy's console conversion of the pachislot game, allowing the two companies to build on each other's success.
Over the next three years, however, that collaboration looks to substantially change the structure of the two companies, especially with regard to their console and arcade game business. In the arcade arena, the two companies plan to work together to increase their market presence and earnings, building and operating more and larger arcade locations in Japan and elsewhere. Meanwhile, in the console realm, Sega Sammy Holdings plans a thorough review of the "domestic and overseas R&D framework of both companies," with an eye towards restructuring their development efforts in search of immediate profitability.
"We expect to reorganize Sega, Sammy and other subsidiaries into business segments," said Satomi, "so we can effectively allocate management resources such as employees, goods, capital, and intelligence, and improve management efficiency." Those business segments, as shown below, will cover the development and production of pachinko and slot machines (Sammy's core business), arcade and consumer game software (integrating both Sega and Sammy's efforts in that area), and the adaptation of those products in other media (such as Sega's toy business and the exploitation of its character franchises).
The first step in that reorganization will be the integration of Sammy's arcade and home videogame business into Sega, in both Japan and North America. Sega will distribute Sammy's Atomiswave arcade hardware and games under its own brand worldwide. It's not yet clear how this may affect Sammy's fledgling North American publishing operation, but given the example of the Square Enix merger (which resulted in the dissolution of Enix America), it looks as if Sammy Studios might not be long for this world.
More interesting is what may happen to Sega's once-fragmented internal software development studios. As announced last month, Sega's seven development subsidiaries -- Hitmaker, Sega Wow, Sonic Team, Sega-AM2, Digitalrex, Amusement Vision, and Smilebit -- have been reintegrated into Sega. However, it's not certain how that change will affect their day-to-day operations.
Satomi commented briefly on the larger picture of the reintegration. "I feel that Sega has high individual capabilities, but it's too separated into different subsidiaries", he explained. "Sega wasn't able to create an overall corporate strategy or uniformity because of that, which is a major reason behind the company's stagnation. Oguchi himself has been feeling the same way. It's about time that we returned back to the old Sega." Given that Sega's teams have existed as they are for years, however, and are all at work on existing projects, it seems likely that they won't be shaken up too significantly in the short term.
If anything it suggests there would be more re organisation if needed, which did happen. But that was more Sega's doing in the last couple of years.And that article is from june 2004.
It was a brilliant port,but rushed out (a SEGA trademark for early software) soon it was to be improved with Remix which looked way better than the Arcade Model 1 version.
It was a horrible port and buggy to boot. I know you love the saturn but let's not rewrite history or in your case, reality.
One could say that about every SEGA system ever made. The Saturn enjoyed some of the best SEGA ports of Arcade around, all the more impressive given the massive gulf in spec's between Model 2 and Saturn.
That's because the saturn was the most powerful sega system at that time, of course it could handle the ports. But the ports and SOJ consumer support was higher with the MS and MD as well as the DC afterwards.
Yakuza 5 shipped on disc, The new Sonic you can bet will ship on disc and so will most of SEGA new games on non hand held consoles
No TA, most of the new titles are being released digitally. YAKUZA /RGG 5 doesn't count because that was one of the key titles untouched/unaffacted by Sega's shift towards digital. Also it came out last year. Its not like you dont know this as you were complaining about it back when they confirmed the news officially.
The size of the Team needed to make Yakuza games is massive and then there's the detail and resaerch that needed for their games , Its a massive and huge production and you can bet more expensive than most Capcom or FromSoftware productions and Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Gen had massive ammounts of money lavished on them
Really? Compared to EA and 2K and Rockstar and others of that ilk? RGG doesn't go anywhere near the budget that those companies have used for their titles.
And yet PSO has always sold better on the consoles . SEGA could be making more of a killing
are you having a laugh? PSTRPORTABLE was the most succesful in that series outselling PSU and PSO console versions altogether. And that was just the first one. And PS02 is doing way much better than PS0 did when it was released on other game systems. So i 'd advise you check your figures again.
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guys guys guys
to put up the hamas (means) that which the essence of the heart longs for..
that i love sega so much. males me happy and sad. being a fighter and a skater.
c class muay thai fighter
above average almost pro skater
but i remain a geek when about sega. i just hate the others
it is the hamas of me. i love sega. and i hate what she does sometimes.
it is my secret prayer.
i never talk about sega at work.
i never really show it of
afraid being called a dork
but i play non stop
even when i dont feel like
out of boredom and love
sega my first the master system together with alex kidd in miracle world
and then later on my dad bought
cyber shinobi and aztec adventure. i was so happy i ran to the tv to plug the antenna in the tv. i was so rushed that the tv felt out of enthousiasm.
im sorry dad lol
it really happened. but i was the only one having sms
in the md era i was not alone no mo
but now i am alone again in this bunker with u guys
thx segabits
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The long decline of Sonic happened under Naka's watch and that includes 2006
Naka had long started his plans to leave the SEGA and ST before long before the game shipped . When the Sonic 06 was 1st shown off at E3 the game looked great and showed stunning tech. Sadly SEGA had 2 Team working on totally different parts of the game and the producer all hoping their would magically merge together with no issues and that's where the game fell apart :(.
Sadly he failed to a get grip of the games budget and Team size and that's what good Producers do .
He never said that. here's what he said
He's just one of his interviews with the likes of EDGE.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8365/8493765917_8157dfe661_c.jpg)
And it was the only time he talked of the constant team changes at SEGA. And under Sammy how many Team changes have we had , how many Teams have their own separate names ?.
It was a horrible port and buggy to boot.
It played and moved exactly liked the Arcade and sounded way better too (not just music but Sound effects) Sure clipping was a issue but that was cleaned up for the Pal versions and Remix had no issues what so ever . The way you talk its like Sonic Adv had no issues and no clipping or bugs with being rushed out, same for VF 3 and Rally II on the DC or the MD had a ace launch in Japan never mind the Thunder Blade had trouble out doing the PC Eng version . SEGA had a history on all it's consoles of rushing software out on its consoles.
But the ports and SOJ consumer support was higher with the MS and MD as well as the DC afterwards.
A lot of the MD ports they weren't even handle In-House . With the Saturn SEGA's AM Team got involved with porting the games themselves and going all out trying to perfectly emu the coin up gameplay and that was carried through with the DC.
YAKUZA /RGG 5 doesn't count because that was one of the key titles
Yep Key tiles like this and Sonic will always be disc based on the consoles . And I put to you that any big major PS3, 360 production by SEGA will come out on disc .
Really? Compared to EA and 2K and Rockstar and others of that ilk
2K and Rockstar are the same and if you want to compare westerns studios then fine, I'm comparing like for like and that's Japanese studios to Japanese studios
Yes when you have a team of over 200 people working on a single game - its going to cost you millions and millions and Yakuza games are some of the biggest productions in Japan, they're a Monmouth task given the am mount of content that goes into each game .
SEGA also spends a fortune on each Sonic and PSO II would have cost millions to make and up there (most prob more) than what Capcom paid for Lost Planet development .
PSTRPORTABLE was the most succesful in that series outselling PSU and PSO console versions altogether.
PSP can be classed a console . Its not a laptop or netbook . Consoles are where PSU gets its best sales in Japan that mean the handhelds in the West it will mean the 360 and PS3 and that's we should all be playing them right now on either the Vita or 360 and PS3.
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Naka had long started his plans to leave the SEGA and ST before long before the game shipped . When the Sonic 06 was 1st shown off at E3 the game looked great and showed stunning tech. Sadly SEGA had 2 Team working on totally different parts of the game and the producer all hoping their would magically merge together with no issues and that's where the game fell apart
Sadly he failed to a get grip of the games budget and Team size and that's what good Producers do .
I'm talking about development for goodness sake. Naka was still part of the games development.
before he decided to leave so he's responsible for the mess, whether you like it or not.
And it was the only time he talked of the constant team changes at SEGA. And under Sammy how many Team changes have we had , how many Teams have their own separate names ?.
April right?, well June is when he obviously had the handle of the extent of the situation, i can understand that since most companies going through mergers wont get the bigger picture until it happens. But i concede he said it and you were correct.
It played and moved exactly liked the Arcade and sounded way better too (not just music but Sound effects) Sure clipping was a issue but that was cleaned up for the Pal versions and Remix had no issues what so ever . The way you talk its like Sonic Adv had no issues and no clipping or bugs with being rushed out, same for VF 3 and Rally II on the DC or the MD had a ace launch in Japan never mind the Thunder Blade had trouble out doing the PC Eng version . SEGA had a history on all it's consoles of rushing software out on its consoles.
First i never said i ever like d SONIC ADVENTURE. And you've known me long enough to know that. Second VF was a mess and i think you have your Saturn blinders on if you really believe that nonsense about it being better than the original arcade. And while its true about sega rushing games for launch, doesn't excuse the mess that is VF for saturn.
A lot of the MD ports they weren't even handle In-House . With the Saturn SEGA's AM Team got involved with porting the games themselves and going all out trying to perfectly emu the coin up gameplay and that was carried through with the DC.
But the quality of the ports was never in dispute. its the number of them that are.
Yep Key tiles like this and Sonic will always be disc based on the consoles . And I put to you that any big major PS3, 360 production by SEGA will come out on disc .
New IP or established IP. Sonic RGG and a few others yes. New IP, it doesn't seem to be the case.
2K and Rockstar are the same and if you want to compare westerns studios then fine, I'm comparing like for like and that's Japanese studios to Japanese studios
You're doing the exact same thing, mate. Compared to general and the standard of game development which is the western side at the moment, its always been cheaper.
Yes when you have a team of over 200 people working on a single game - its going to cost you millions and millions and Yakuza games are some of the biggest productions in Japan, they're a Monmouth task given the am mount of content that goes into each game .
SEGA also spends a fortune on each Sonic and PSO II would have cost millions to make and up there (most prob more) than what Capcom paid for Lost Planet development .
RGG doesn't cost heaps of millions to make. Especially with the sequels. The costs for the game has risen due to the new system and engine improvements that they've made during the series run which obviously will now include the PS4. PS02 of course that had a big budget but compared to what you usually have in these type of games its not much. But i'd like to see Sega have the will and not just the budget to produce a new IP instead of relying on Sega west to release all the new home console IPs.
PSP can be classed a console . Its not a laptop or netbook . Consoles are where PSU gets its best sales in Japan that mean the handhelds in the West it will mean the 360 and PS3 and that's we should all be playing them right now on either the Vita or 360 and PS3.
Stop twisting things to fit your agenda. You know exactly what i was talking about, PSTR has never done well on the home game systems and PSP and Vita NDS are never really classed in that arena which is why people call them handhelds. Which is also why people judge Nintendo, Sony and whoever by the success of their main systems and not the sales of their portable systems. Nintendo at the time of the game cube was still considered to be second/third tier despite the GBA outselling the PS2 in the market. But the PS2 was the best seller in the traditional console market which meant they were the most succesful because that is where it and always has been judged.
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I'm talking about development for goodness sake.
? A Producer job is to get a Team and give them the budget and all the tools they need . Sadly the Shinobi producer was not up to that task and it showed .
April right?, well June is when he obviously had the handle of the extent of the situation,
It was taken after he took full control of SEGA. He talks about Strong leadership and bringing all the Studios back into 1 . It didn't last very long .
First i never said i ever like d SONIC ADVENTURE
? Sonic Adv was a launch game (well it shipped 2 weeks late) and it had issues of clipping and bugs . That's what happen with some early launch games and them being rushed out ;VF on the Saturn played and moved exactly like the coin up (which is what you want with a Arcade port) and the clipping wasn't that bad and was removed completely in Remix.
But the quality of the ports was never in dispute
Turbo Outrun was a joke on the MD, Outrunners not much better, After Burner III a joke on the Mega CD, Galaxy Force played better on the MS than the Mega Drive game
Like with the Saturn and DC the home ports seemed better when the In-House Teams were on the case
New IP, it doesn't seem to be the case
What major new IP has SEGA even made for the 360 or PS3 ?. What little SOJ have made for those systems have all been disc based for the major productions
Compared to general and the standard of game development which is the western side at the moment
Some western teams have the advantage in money and manpower . But I'm on about SEGA Japan and how its fairs against Japanese 3rd parties . Look already Capcom have a stunning next gen engine and new IP for the PS4 , where is SEGA Japan ?
RGG doesn't cost heaps of millions to make. Especially with the sequels.
They each cost millions to make on the PS3 . You can't cram that much content and those huge worlds with out serious man power and some serious money spent . Sonic cost a bomb to make and PSO II must have taken millions to make .
SEGA does spend the money on some key titles
PSTR has never done well on the home game systems and PSP and Vita NDS are never really classed in that arena which is why people call them handhelds
PSO games have sold better on the consoles than the PC . Now in the same way than people see the Laptop as an extension of the PC for the move, people see that for consoles and handheld . Now SEGA should have had PSO II ready to go on all the major consoles , its the way to get the best sales and to me would be a great seller
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? A Producer job is to get a Team and give them the budget and all the tools they need . Sadly the Shinobi producer was not up to that task and it showed .
It was way after Naka started the project, and with the time he had alloted how can anyone be blamed for that mess created by who was previously in charge?
It was taken after he took full control of SEGA. He talks about Strong leadership and bringing all the Studios back into 1 . It didn't last very long .
No it wasn't, you said April and EDGE does articles in advanced. If you know the setup of Sega, Satomi only takes overall decisions of the entire company IE SEGASAMMY Holdings, he leaves the day to day runnings of the two companies to others. So any change within Sega is really down to Sega themselves.
? Sonic Adv was a launch game (well it shipped 2 weeks late) and it had issues of clipping and bugs . That's what happen with some early launch games and them being rushed out ;VF on the Saturn played and moved exactly like the coin up (which is what you want with a Arcade port) and the clipping wasn't that bad and was removed completely in Remix.
Sorry mate VF port was bad and you know it was. Stop flogging a dead horse. And i really don't know what the question mark is for either. I didn't say SA was perfect, i personally don't like the SA games.
Like with the Saturn and DC the home ports seemed better when the In-House Teams were on the case
Just not enough of them on the saturn which is what i said. No one said that the ports couldn't be made properly by the arcade teams, just VF was a shoddy port. that doesn't mean that all the ports were. So stop twisting what im saying.
What major new IP has SEGA even made for the 360 or PS3 ?. What little SOJ have made for those systems have all been disc based for the major productions
Were talking about the next gen and you know it. Yes, key titles will still get new entries but Sega themselves have said they're shifting focus towards digital which mean we won't see many new IP being released on disc format. Why do you keep disputing things that Sega themselves have stated?
Some western teams have the advantage in money and manpower . But I'm on about SEGA Japan and how its fairs against Japanese 3rd parties . Look already Capcom have a stunning next gen engine and new IP for the PS4 , where is SEGA Japan ?
Sega isn't capcom. But they do need to buck up their ideas.
They each cost millions to make on the PS3 . You can't cram that much content and those huge worlds with out serious man power and some serious money spent . Sonic cost a bomb to make and PSO II must have taken millions to make .
I know that but they are still relativly cheap in comparison to many other companies you can name in the industry. You can go on about japan all you like but that isn''t the standard when it comes to dev R+D anymore. The west is.
SEGA does spend the money on some key titles
No one said they didn't. They just don't go beyond the 30 million mark.
PSO games have sold better on the consoles than the PC . Now in the same way than people see the Laptop as an extension of the PC for the move, people see that for consoles and handheld . Now SEGA should have had PSO II ready to go on all the major consoles , its the way to get the best sales and to me would be a great seller
No one mentioned PC. PS has never sold big numbers until the franchise was released on the handheld system. You can keep spinning and backtracking all you want the point is that the series has never sold decent numbers on home based consoles.
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It was way after Naka started the project
You blame Naka for the piss poor Shadow the Hedgehog and the likes of Sonic Heroes . You can't blame Naka for the mess that was Sonic 06 . He was long taken off the project way before it shipped .
No it wasn't, you said April and EDGE does articles in advanced. If you know the setup of Sega,
Sammy took over SEGA in December of 2003 , long before April and the interview was done when Satomi-san was chairman of SEGA and in full control of the group, and coming from the one who made out Satomi-san never talked about the Team changes its a bit much to take.
He talks of strong leadership and bringing the Team back into 1 group , only let SEGA make plenty of screw ups (sonic 06 was a lack of strong leadership) and countless Team changes and even letting the likes of New R&D1 go off and have their own Studio name .
Sorry mate VF port was bad and you know it was
? It played moved exactly like the Arcade , and wasn't that far off the look of the Arcade game . Go and play Thunder Blade in the Arcades and then on the Mega Drive to see a world of difference.
Sega isn't capcom.
No they aren't and yet we keep hearing from you than SEGA is bigger than the likes of Capcom Ect. Yet Capcom have more million selling IP have one of the best multi platform engines around and now have a new next gen engine (that looks stunning) and even a new IP. SEGA Japan is again no-where to be seen . Don't you miss the days of console makers having SEGA show off its tech and IP on brand new consoles ? Well ok SONY had SEGA with the Vita I guess .
Just not enough of them on the saturn which is what i said.
? I just give you a huge list and they were others like Wing War ect .
They just don't go beyond the 30 million mark
That's about the average of this gen development costs .
PS has never sold big numbers until the franchise was released on the handheld system
It sold pretty well on the DC , more so given the Platform was dead on its feet at the time . The series has always sold better on the consoles than the PC, no sock really since the Japanese weren't known for their PC love .
People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West as we speak
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People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West as we speak
It's sad especially when the CANVAS Engine practically went to waste on only one game when they could have used it for a potential VC PS3 sequel since the engine was done. :'(
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You blame Naka for the piss poor Shadow the Hedgehog and the likes of Sonic Heroes . You can't blame Naka for the mess that was Sonic 06 . He was long taken off the project way before it shipped .
Not in the initial stages of development. I've clearly won this since you keep using the word shipped and dodging the question put to you. Shipped is when the product has already finished and been printed.
Sammy took over SEGA in December of 2003 , long before April and the interview was done when Satomi-san was chairman of SEGA and in full control of the group, and coming from the one who made out Satomi-san never talked about the Team changes its a bit much to take.
Sammy didn't have control in 2003, it happened in 2004 when they had full contol, and that interview contridicts what you said originally. So try again.
He talks of strong leadership and bringing the Team back into 1 group , only let SEGA make plenty of screw ups (sonic 06 was a lack of strong leadership) and countless Team changes and even letting the likes of New R&D1 go off and have their own Studio name .
What the frell are you on about? Sega's position in the US changed from being outside of the top 20 publishers to being in the top five within two years and Sega's status in japan had increased very well since the merger.Could things have gone better yes, but dont start acting that Sammy or satomi has been a drag on Sega's feet when they more or less been beneificial as well. You seem to be arguing that he should take direct control of Sega itself which is something you wouldn't want anyway. Half the mistakes that Sega's done is down to Sega and that includes the reshuffling of teams after the company wide reshuffle once the merger was finialised and completed.
? It played moved exactly like the Arcade , and wasn't that far off the look of the Arcade game . Go and play Thunder Blade in the Arcades and then on the Mega Drive to see a world of difference.
a buggy version of the arcade.
No they aren't and yet we keep hearing from you than SEGA is bigger than the likes of Capcom Ect. Yet Capcom have more million selling IP have one of the best multi platform engines around and now have a new next gen engine (that looks stunning) and even a new IP. SEGA Japan is again no-where to be seen . Don't you miss the days of console makers having SEGA show off its tech and IP on brand new consoles ? Well ok SONY had SEGA with the Vita I guess .
Not from me, from countless chart track sites that record this type of thing. Sega doesn't rely on one IP to sell, you know and that's the sad fact you don't understand. You keep thinking in this backward mentality that a billion dollar game has to sell billion dollars worldwide. When that isn't necessarly the case.
? I just give you a huge list and they were others like Wing War ect .
No you gave me a handful because that's just it a handful.
That's about the average of this gen development costs .
Hardly millions upon millions and compared to other devs in Sega's position that is still cheap
It sold pretty well on the DC , more so given the Platform was dead on its feet at the time . The series has always sold better on the consoles than the PC, no sock really since the Japanese weren't known for their PC love .
You can say that about every Sega franchise selling on a sega console. But it hasn't sold well outside of that until recently and that's really been on handhelds. So no it hasn't always sold well on consoles.
People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West as we speak
Really, i'm not the one who becomes blind on what SOJ did during the saturn era. I dont want and no Sega fan wants Sega to be like Capcom, Konami or anyone else. Strange that the people who has nothing good to say about them want the company to imitate other people. How sad and pathectic. I want Sega to stun people the Sega way. End of. You should want that to.
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It's sad especially when the CANVAS Engine practically went to waste on only one game when they could have used it for a potential VC PS3 sequel since the engine was done
Exactly it shows the talent . That games looked better that the just released Ni No Kuni on the PS3 . One can only imagine what a 3rd gen version of the Cavas game would have looked like. Ok the game didn't sell, but sometimes a new IP needs a 2nd game to really take off (SF II anyone?) or they could have used the tech and the Team to make a new RPG or a sequel to skies on the PS3 .
Not in the initial stages of development.
The game completely changed
Sammy didn't have control in 2003,
In 2003 they bought CSK stake thus under Japanese law: giving them control over SEGA and if that wasn't enough how then became chairman of the whole group ?
Sega's position in the US changed from being outside of the top 20 publishers to being in the top five within two years and Sega's status in japan had increased very well since the merger
SEGA consumer Teams have made a profit like 2 or 3 times since the Takover . Under Sammy SEGA name been put through the mud and many people have been let down . We still have the team changes we still have games being rushed and we still had letdown sequels like Sonic 06, PSU, Nights II , Sonic Unleashed and Sega Japan still lacks big name multi million selling IP
Not from me, from countless chart track sites that record this type of thing
Really what SEGA Japan game other than Sonic, Sonic and Mario have sold better than Capcom's RE 5 ?, never mind the likes of Dead Rising, Lost Planet, DMC IV, Street Fighter IV, Dragon Dogma
a buggy version of the arcade
Clipping isn't a bug and there was plenty of clipping in Model 2 games like Daytona USA and Sega Rally in the Arcades .
You can say that about every Sega franchise selling on a sega console.
The likes of PSU and other SEGA console IP still sold better on the consoles than their PC ports .
I dont want and no Sega fan wants Sega to be like Capcom, Konami or anyone else.
Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)
These days SEGA is still making plenty of screw ups but not many gems and what gems it does make seems to limited to a single platform or market half the time
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Exactly it shows the talent . That games looked better that the just released Ni No Kuni on the PS3 . One can only imagine what a 3rd gen version of the Cavas game would have looked like. Ok the game didn't sell, but sometimes a new IP needs a 2nd game to really take off (SF II anyone?) or they could have used the tech and the Team to make a new RPG or a sequel to skies on the PS3 .
I personally liked NNK's artstyle but yeah I think VC looks better, but I like them both to be honest.
I thought that Skies was a one off RPG? I didn't see any loose ends in that game to make a sequel...unless you want an all new cast of characters to show the universe hundreds of years later or something...I wouldn't mind that just as long as the characters and world are represented really well.
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I thought that Skies was a one off RPG
You can always make a sequel to a game and I'm sure pre production work was started on Skies II before the Team was moved the Hand Helds
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The game completely changed
Because naka was n't up to it. it was his project, his responsibility.his failure. face it and move on.
In 2003 they bought CSK stake thus under Japanese law: giving them control over SEGA and if that wasn't enough how then became chairman of the whole group ?
Sammy didn't have full control of Sega until 2004 when they brought the remaining stock to force the merger and create a new company. Everyone knows that, sad you don't.
SEGA consumer Teams have made a profit like 2 or 3 times since the Takover . Under Sammy SEGA name been put through the mud and many people have been let down . We still have the team changes we still have games being rushed and we still had letdown sequels like Sonic 06, PSU, Nights II , Sonic Unleashed and Sega Japan still lacks big name multi million selling IP
No we have departments and divisions now under sega which the teams whatever their selcetive criteria is works under. Again the reshuffling since was mainly Sega's doing. The reshuffling that you are going on about was due to the restructuring of the entire companies that came under the new Segasammy holdings name. Many companies were sold off restructed and whatever or took full control. So to compare that to the various restructing since is riduculous.
Really what SEGA Japan game other than Sonic, Sonic and Mario have sold better than Capcom's RE 5 ?, never mind the likes of Dead Rising, Lost Planet, DMC IV, Street Fighter IV, Dragon Dogma
Again sega isn't capcom. Sega's profits are usually spread between three divisons and companies from the arcade to consumer to their toy divison.
Clipping isn't a bug and there was plenty of clipping in Model 2 games like Daytona USA and Sega Rally in the Arcades .
Clipping now is it? LOL. Boy you are blind when it comes to the saturn. it was a piss poor port.
The likes of PSU and other SEGA console IP still sold better on the consoles than their PC ports .
Nope. PStar sold better on handhelds. End of. Since you couldn't get the numbers of VO:MARZ correct i dont think you're an expert on what sold better in anything else.
Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)
Your blind support for the saturn is laughable. The saturn was the least supported sega system compared to the others. You keep naming the same titles but if we do an actual list to list comparison you will see how many titles were delivered by Sega and their subsidaries on each system and the saturn is one of the lowest.
These days SEGA is still making plenty of screw ups but not many gems and what gems it does make seems to limited to a single platform or market half the time
Maybe its to do with the fact that they were a first party when they were making gems as compared to now as a third party.
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I personally liked NNK's artstyle but yeah I think VC looks better, but I like them both to be honest.
I thought that Skies was a one off RPG? I didn't see any loose ends in that game to make a sequel...unless you want an all new cast of characters to show the universe hundreds of years later or something...I wouldn't mind that just as long as the characters and world are represented really well.
There was meant to be a sequel, the port on the gamecube and the cancelled port on the PS2 was meant to generate intrest in the sequel, they even went as far ahead as unofficially confirming that a sequel was in the works but it got canned with a slew of other titles. But of course i said this at the time but the person saying that the game was being made at the time said there were no plans of a sequel at all. funny how time changes ones opinions.
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Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)
See I don't get the love you have for the Saturn, when you constantly criticize Sega's current set of games.
You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.
Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game, I wish Sega would go back to that!". Yes there is Rally, Virtua Cop, and Fighters Megamix, but I think Sega went on to be pretty consistent with these type of games on current-gen consoles, with Rally Revo and huge updates of Virtua Fighter, and we all know they are still many Rail-shooters in production by SEGA.. I mean sure, we don't have 4 different kind of Fighters anymore. But I overall I think most people would agree, that it's better that Sega focuses on one Fighter and constantly improves on it.
You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games (they even have their own Sports R&D department since like 2006)...it just that on the Saturn that's the only time were the only they bothered to release them worlwide/home consoles, turns out nobody cares about them, because since then, Sega's sports games stayed in Japan/Arcades.
And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company. There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS...
Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year...
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You can always make a sequel to a game and I'm sure pre production work was started on Skies II before the Team was moved the Hand Helds
True I guess.
There was meant to be a sequel, the port on the gamecube and the cancelled port on the PS2 was meant to generate intrest in the sequel, they even went as far ahead as unofficially confirming that a sequel was in the works but it got canned with a slew of other titles. But of course i said this at the time but the person saying that the game was being made at the time said there were no plans of a sequel at all. funny how time changes ones opinions.
I see, that's some interesting piece of info.
Whether they make a sequel or not, Skies of Arcadia had a pretty well wrapped up plot so either direction wouldn't bother me, although I usually fear if a sequel would do the original justice.
As for Burning Rangers, I wish that they went back to that concept and made a sequel.
Heck, they could put a very basic storyline for the main game (some guy who starts fires and the rangers face off with him at the end?), I think the game has huge potential for its post-game....they could even add a score attack ala NiGHTS.
Of course, this is only what I would love to see...
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See I don't get the love you have for the Saturn, when you constantly criticize Sega's current set of games.
You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.
Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game, I wish Sega would go back to that!". Yes there is Rally, Virtua Cop, and Fighters Megamix, but I think Sega went on to be pretty consistent with these type of games on current-gen consoles, with Rally Revo and huge updates of Virtua Fighter, and we all know they are still many Rail-shooters in production by SEGA.. I mean sure, we don't have 4 different kind of Fighters anymore. But I overall I think most people would agree, that it's better that Sega focuses on one Fighter and constantly improves on it.
You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games (they even have their own Sports R&D department since like 2006)...it just that on the Saturn that's the only time were the only they bothered to release them worlwide/home consoles, turns out nobody cares about them, because since then, Sega's sports games stayed in Japan/Arcades.
And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company. There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS...
Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year...
See i agree with some of your points but I think you're being too harsh. Its not like the games mentioned weren't good games but they weren't the type of games that would have intrested a western audience in their masses. The Saturn to many grey importers and japanese gamers was effectivly how the americans felt about the genesis at the time. Sega released several games for the Saturn that captured the attention of many japanese gamers who otherwise wasn't bothered about Sega games before. The problem is that these games considered classics to japanese gamers aren't considered special to gamers or Sega gamers outside of Japan/asia. I wouldn't say the saturn didn't produce its own gems, the problem is compared to the MD and the MS/DC it doesn't compare to the gems that was created on those systems. Next to the SG1000 the Saturn is prehaps the least supported Sega system from Sega themselves.
Also looking at their third party output and the criticism TA has put on it what he does n't realise is that to many, third party Sega is exactly like how it was with the Saturn if you were living in the US and europe. The odd arcade ports, couple of original IP every 2 years or so and the rest made up by their western subsidaries. While the majority of releases are still in japan and aren't up to western Sega fan's tastes. If you don't have the money to import or isn't a game that you would play, you were stuck with not a lot of games for the saturn if you were a sega fan. The complete opposite to what happened with the Genesis when the sega consumer was enjoying a multitude of Sega goodness. This is exactly what is happening now. The last good Sega era was obviously the DC which spoilt us rotten with strong games from SOJ and now were experiencing an era where were not getting that many SOJ games for the west. If it was reverse, i doubt the complaints leveled at Sega with their second party releases and western titles would be as much if the sega consumer actually got more than just two SOJ games every so many years.
To me the Saturn was a lost oppurtunity. Its not like no one wasn't excited about the coming of the Saturn. But too many times I keep seeing the accusations on why it failed hyped up when it isn't the whole truth. The reason why the saturn failed was because the Saturn didn't continue the leagcy of what the genesis/megadrive started. At the time people was excited about certain titles coming for the Saturn, not because Sega confirmed thatthey were coming but people exected it to appear mainly because they were popular on the genesis. So when TOE JAM AND EARL didn't appear, SOR didn't appear, ECCO and the failure of a decent proper SONIC or SHINOBI game there was no way the Saturn was going to succeed. There wasn't any recognisable title to pull in the punters and that's the bottom line. SOJ and SOA failed to keep or entice the audience with titles that became familiar with their fans. Unforunate but nevertheless true.
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True I guess.
I see, that's some interesting piece of info.
Whether they make a sequel or not, Skies of Arcadia had a pretty well wrapped up plot so either direction wouldn't bother me, although I usually fear if a sequel would do the original justice.
As for Burning Rangers, I wish that they went back to that concept and made a sequel.
Heck, they could put a very basic storyline for the main game (some guy who starts fires and the rangers face off with him at the end?), I think the game has huge potential for its post-game....they could even add a score attack ala NiGHTS.
Of course, this is only what I would love to see...
Well Kodama's style of RPGs usually have closed endings. There wasn't really a hint of a sequel with some of the original PHANTASY STAR games either. They more than likely would have set it in the same world but used a diferent set of characters much like they did with VALKYRIA. As for sequels, to me the time has gone past for that now. It would have been better if they had a follow up when the series was still more fresh in peoples mind rather than leave it over a decade later. Many games specifically Sega games don't necessarly perform well when they get a sequel after a long absence. Sometimes its due to the anticipation and romanticised look of the original series that's built over the years that by the time a sequel comes out, the game doesn't measure up to what people has imagined or want it to be in their heads over the years. This is definatly what happened with PANZER DRAGOON and its xbox sequel.
As for BURNING RANGERS unless you count the mobile spin off game(which isn't what fans of the game would have expected or wanted)it could do with a strong sequel or makeover but then what would we end up with? What we got with the sequel to NIGHTS?
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You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.
It’s quite simple back it those days SEGA was making games on its own Hardware so there was no calls for games to be multi and the quality bar and output from SEGA Japan in the Saturn and DC days was 2nd to none in terms of tech and making great games.
SEGA Japan is a shadow of it’s self in those days or even the X-Box and Cube days .
Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game,
? I could make a huge list of what gamers were saying was a classic game , not least SEGA Rally and VF II games not only AAA in gameplay terms but also also pushing the technical bar in Tech .
You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games
? There was still plenty of SEGA sports games that only came out in Japan for the Saturn , but the point is that they were quality and that's the difference . Compare Decathlete to Sonic Vs Mario and its a bit of a non contest and what happened to the quality SEGA Japan used to pump out , it even made one of the best series of Football games with its World Wide series on the Saturn and that's gone these days .
And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company
No different from Nintendo and Pokemon and it doesn't change the fact that Dragon Force was a In-House games for most of its production , the sequel made In-House and then a lot of the team moved to make Skies of Arcadia for the home. Dragon Force is a SEGA game alright
There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS
And that's risk taking ?.
Btw Dragon Quest 10 isn't on a HH and the likes of Ni No Kunji are getting rave reviews and again SEGA even though it has a great team and tech is no-where when in comes to RPG's on the main consoles
Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year
Astal was a quality game with brilliant graphics , Monkey Ball used to be quality once and even offer some stunning graphics and sound , but the series has been run into the ground and while MB Vita is a return to form of sorts , its still no-where near the mark of MB and MB II on the Cube .
Carry on with the defence of the new SEGA. Everyone else with out their blinkers, will know SEGA Japan is a shadow of what it once was and can do really better
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Okay comparing Astal to current Monkey Ball wasn't quite fair, but it was still a mediocore game. It got like 22/40 from Famitsu.
? I could make a huge list of what gamers were saying was a classic game , not least SEGA Rally and VF II games not only AAA in gameplay terms but also also pushing the technical bar in Tech
Of course they were classic games, but not just in the sense that people wouldn't wish sequels/or games in the same vein of them 10 years later, like people do with Shenmue, Jet Set etc. etc.. Like Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally...we got next-gen updates of those.
No different from Nintendo and Pokemon and it doesn't change the fact that Dragon Force was a In-House games for most of its production , the sequel made In-House and then a lot of the team moved to make Skies of Arcadia for the home. Dragon Force is a SEGA game alright
Well yes, the Saturn had alot of JRPG's. But Sega have been making a lot of those still.
And who the hell is talking about risk taking? DQ10 is a MMO, and Nino Kuni on the PS3 is a one of a kind game that we won't see for a long time, it's just that Sega had their turn with VC1 earlier in the Generation.
Sega has been releasing 7th Dragon, Shining and Valkyria games. On handhelds yes, but that's generally where all the JRPG's are now. If you know anything about them, you know this has been the natural case for every company and they are definitly not on PS360.
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Okay comparing Astal to current Monkey Ball wasn't quite fair, but it was still a mediocore game. It got like 22/40 from Famitsu
Famitsu the mag where you 'buy' reviews, Lets all remember the scores they've given out to the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog . Non contest and while Astal was a simple platformer at heart: it was a quality one; one with to this very day stunning graphics and sound and almost marks one of the 1st games that Ryuta Ueda worked on for SEGA.
Shenmue, Jet Set etc. etc.. Like Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally...we got next-gen updates of those
We've no update to JSRF or Shenmue (and for Shenmue I understand the reasons) SEGA Rally was poor and played nothing like the Arcade series at all and wasn't fit to carry the Rally name .
Well yes, the Saturn had alot of JRPG's. But Sega have been making a lot of those still.
Hardly any for the major consoles and its not like others also don't make RPG for the HH as well as the major consoles . I'm mean Namco have been making a far better go at it , with some quality RPG's on both the PS3 and 360
And who the hell is talking about risk taking
Nagoshi-san.
If you know anything about them, you know this has been the natural case for every company and they are definitly not on PS360.
Never heard of Namco ?. On the 360 they given us Eternal Sonata, Tales Of Vesperia , what about Square ? How have given 360 owners FF 13, FF 13- 2 and soon to be Lighting Returns , never mind what both Square and Namco have given PS3 owners as well as upcoming titles
I think you find I do know about RPG's . SEGA Japan yet again is nowhere on the main consoles and that's the case for so many genre's now its depressing
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You misunderstood me, JSR, Shenmue are the type of games, that people were crying for updates for, not that they have been updated.
Still the whole point of Square as a company is to bring the the qoutessentail JRPG to consoles, and on that aspect they failed.
Namco's Tales Team is like Sega's Yakuza Team...it's their prominent release and franchise.
But yeah with Eternal Sonata, they basicilly had one more RPG more I guess...now we're being pedantic.
Also compared to other companies, it isn't Sega's job to be an RPG powerhouse...they are more like Capcom where they make a variety of different games.
And I think Nagoshi was in general talking about their published titles as well, no publisher treats their in--house teams as different...
And as a publisher Sega has been making alot of risks. They poured alot of money into Platinum games, RoF and some interresting Western productions.
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JRPG to consoles, and on that aspect they failed.
Seeing as one of their games sells better than most of SEGA's major IP put-together I wouldn't agree. They've made and brought a number of RPG's to the major consoles and are ready to bring 1 more.
Namco's Tales Team is like Sega's Yakuza Team
To a point I guess
it isn't Sega's job to be an RPG powerhouse...they are more like Capcom where they make a variety of different games.
But its not RPG's its a whole host of genre's and there's a lack of games where SEGA Japan is a player , where it can boast million selling IP on the 360 and PS3 . That's the trouble , all very well taking the safe route of just looking to Japan and the HH, not great for the bigger picture and getting the Teams right for current gen pipe lines (never mind next gen)
They poured alot of money into Platinum games
That is not a risk, it was SEGA trying to take the easy way out, instead of letting it's In-House Teams make those sorts of games and take the risks . The deal has totally backfired too , Plantium gets all the credit and new Publishers , while SEGA takes the flak of the PS3 port of Bayonetta and is left with poor sales and its own Teams just watching on...
SEGA done a bit of good and make the right moves to get Sonic and PSO back on form, but SEGA Japan needs to up its game massively and to start get far more of an active roll in console games development (non HH) in terms of output and new IP
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That is not a risk, it was SEGA trying to take the easy way out, instead of letting it's In-House Teams make those sorts of games and take the risks .
Well, they could have done absolutely nothing as well. All their in-house teams would still be occupied.
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@ Trip
I'm afraid the person you're debating has a biased opinion when it comes to the Saturn era. Let's look at the facts of it. The Saturn was a good console if you were into arcade ports or core gaming. However if you just wanted to play games in a general basis it wasn't the system you could get into. Sega pratically ignored half their market by not trying to continue the successes they had with the MD/Genesis. That's effectivly killed the Saturn when people realised they weren't seeing any titles that were popular on the Genesis having updates on the Saturn.
As for the sports games. Sega Japan was also adopting certain elements from Sega Of america during that time. Up to 94, Sega didn't have a sports divison but around the Saturn's launch and first few years, SOJ adopted the Sega sports brand and started to release sports games using the Sega sports brand. That is why Deacthelte was released on Saturn to make up the numbers as was putting the brand on that Soccer RPG they had made and so on.
Original IP:When it comes down to it, The only requested IP from the Saturn era was NIGHTS that a lot of people/sega fans wanted to see again, SAKURA TAISEN and one oor two games that started life on this system was getting regular sequels on the next system the DC anyway. After that BURNING RANGERS and PANZER DRAGOON? No one was really shouting from the roof tops for sequels to these titles compared to the many DC IP like SHENMUE and JSR.
So TA using VF2 and SEGA RALLY as a point doesn't work since they are not saturn titles to begin with but arcade ports. You cut out the ports and only a few games are left from Sega and many of them are forgettable. ASTEL and CLOCKWORK KNIGHT, let alone BUG! are just not on high on a sega fans list to see a return of. Compared to the demands of the return of franchises from other Sega systems.
The point of Platinum is a moot point. You can say that about EVERY other second party that Sega worked with who moved on to work with other publishers. It not like Platinum stabbed Sega in the back and left them in the lurch either. The results is mixed. Two were succesful one moderate and two flops. Ultimatly the actual aim of these particular games to strenghen Sega in the west was a mixed bag for the sales of BAYONETTA was bigger in Japan than it was anywhere else.
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All their in-house teams would still be occupied
Yeah... I mean the Plantium gang get to work Bay II , Wonderful 101 , while the main gang in SEGA get to work on a iOS game and maybe another Yakuza game .
Sega didn't have a sports divison
SEGA Japan for many years had lines that would make sports games . Who do you think made the likes of Great Football on the Master System ? Wasn't one of Yu Suzuki 1st games for SEGA a sports title ?
That is why Deacthelte was released on Saturn to make up the numbers as was putting the brand on that Soccer RPG they had made and so on.
? It was AM#3 bringing a Hit Arcade title to the home and also to cash in on the 1996 Olympics . SEGA would always use Arcade games to help make up the numbers, none more so than with the Dreamcast .
The only requested IP from the Saturn era was NIGHTS
This is not about asking for old IP to be brought , but the difference in output and quality and on that score SEGA is a shadow of the corp that made so many In-House classics on the Saturn and DC and the corp that made the likes of Orta, JSRF, F-Zero , MB on the Cube.
The point of Platinum is a moot point. You can say that about EVERY other second party that Sega worked with who moved on to work with other publishers. It not like Platinum stabbed Sega in the back and left them in the lurch either
I always said SEGA should have let it's own Team go wild and the money spent on them. Platinum have gone and left SEGA with poor sales and its In-House teams have learnt little , while Platinum name with the press and gamers just continues to grow and the Teams put the skills learnt to new IP for Nintendo .
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Yeah... I mean the Plantium gang get to work Bay II , Wonderful 101 , while the main gang in SEGA get to work on a iOS game and maybe another Yakuza game .
You're point is what? Sega's fault? Yes funny because you said they weren't focusing on digital when clearly they are and now you're complaining about it? Typical.
SEGA Japan for many years had lines that would make sports games . Who do you think made the likes of Great Football on the Master System ? Wasn't one of Yu Suzuki 1st games for SEGA a sports title ?
No they didn't. Sega japan didn't create a fully fledged sports division until the mid to late nineties. When they did that's when SOJ adopted the American Sega sports game to establish the Japanese side of titles that they were making. That was the reason why DECATHLETE was ported to the Saturn in the first place to help establish the line. Using the fact they made sports games when they never ever had a line that focused on any particular style of game in the 70s and 80s just goes to show that you haven't a clue on what you are saying.
? It was AM#3 bringing a Hit Arcade title to the home and also to cash in on the 1996 Olympics . SEGA would always use Arcade games to help make up the numbers, none more so than with the Dreamcast .
I'm talking about the situation with DECATHLETE. Sega doesn't always bring their arcade games over to console.
This is not about asking for old IP to be brought , but the difference in output and quality and on that score SEGA is a shadow of the corp that made so many In-House classics on the Saturn and DC and the corp that made the likes of Orta, JSRF, F-Zero , MB on the Cube.
it is actually. You like to make out the Saturn was all so special and important but the truth is it doesn't have the IP that many Sega fans want to see return in a hurry. That's a fact. Deal with it. Regardless on how good these titles are. There's been many good SOJ titles since their third party run has started yet many of them haven't gained legendary status either among the majority of Segafandom. If anything the third party run is similar to the saturn run when a clear division between SOJ and the west started up and SOJ became too focused on the japanese market and leaving everyone else to create games for the other markets outside japan. Which is exactly what's happening now.
I always said SEGA should have let it's own Team go wild and the money spent on them. Platinum have gone and left SEGA with poor sales and its In-House teams have learnt little , while Platinum name with the press and gamers just continues to grow and the Teams put the skills learnt to new IP for Nintendo
Not really. The partnership was fairly successful and their major games made money for Sega. The figures of the games clearly shows that. So your assessment of Platinum running off to Nintendo when the situation was a bit more complex than that is not only erroneous but juvenile as well.
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FINISH HIM
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Yes funny because you said they weren't focusing on digital when clearly they are and now you're complaining about it
Well if SEGA Japan we brining out new games for both the PS3 and 360 in digital form you'll have a point. SEGA backing ditgial is more for brining their old IP and games to XBLA and PSN.
Sega japan didn't create a fully fledged sports division until the mid to late nineties
Until the 90's SEGA only ever had 2 teams one for the Arcade and the other for the consumer ; Within those teams they'll be different pipe lines and SEGA always had sports line right from the early 80's . Wasn't Yu Suzuki 1st game for SEGA a boxing game ?
That was the reason why DECATHLETE was ported to the Saturn in the first place to help establish the line
? It was porting a good selling Arcade game to the home and hoping to sell well on the back of the 1996 Olympics .
You like to make out the Saturn was all so special and important but the truth is it doesn't have the IP that many Sega fans want to see return in a hurry
Saturn is important because it marked the day when the Arcade Teams started to handle the ports them self's and in the Saturn days SEGA imagine for quailty games and good tech was there for all to see. Not the case anymore ,instead people like you are endlessly defending them
The partnership was fairly successful and their major games made money for Sega.
Other than Bay was there a Platinum game that sold more than a million copies ?
Truth is Vanquish didn't sell that great, the likes of MadWorld, Nfinite Space and more so Anarchy Reigns total flops .
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Well Kodama's style of RPGs usually have closed endings. There wasn't really a hint of a sequel with some of the original PHANTASY STAR games either. They more than likely would have set it in the same world but used a diferent set of characters much like they did with VALKYRIA. As for sequels, to me the time has gone past for that now. It would have been better if they had a follow up when the series was still more fresh in peoples mind rather than leave it over a decade later. Many games specifically Sega games don't necessarly perform well when they get a sequel after a long absence. Sometimes its due to the anticipation and romanticised look of the original series that's built over the years that by the time a sequel comes out, the game doesn't measure up to what people has imagined or want it to be in their heads over the years. This is definatly what happened with PANZER DRAGOON and its xbox sequel.
As for BURNING RANGERS unless you count the mobile spin off game(which isn't what fans of the game would have expected or wanted)it could do with a strong sequel or makeover but then what would we end up with? What we got with the sequel to NIGHTS?
Yeah, I guess that was why Streets of Rage 4 was cancelled.
I had to laugh at the NiGHTS sequel end result. I did like it but when I compare it to the first game, it comes off as a questionable game.
I can imagine Sonic Team adding some gimmick in BR so it doesn't ever become fun, so good points there.
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Well if SEGA Japan we brining out new games for both the PS3 and 360 in digital form you'll have a point. SEGA backing ditgial is more for brining their old IP and games to XBLA and PSN.
At the moment but weve seen a lot of other new titles released digitally as well. Shifting focus to digital,not making much hardcopy titles as sega has stated. Only the biger franchises will remain being released as packages. As sega has mentioned in their dozen or so press releases as was mentioned in the news part of this site. Only one who doesn't know this is you.
Until the 90's SEGA only ever had 2 teams one for the Arcade and the other for the consumer ; Within those teams they'll be different pipe lines and SEGA always had sports line right from the early 80's . Wasn't Yu Suzuki 1st game for SEGA a boxing game ?
Again, they didn't have a sports divison or sports line until the nineties. Sports games was treated like anyother title that sega made, just another game to do. i know its hard to believe before the PSX but there was a time that sports games wasn't high on a gamers list.
? It was porting a good selling Arcade game to the home and hoping to sell well on the back of the 1996 Olympics .
Geez that's like saying that about 80percent of sega's games from the arcades. Most sega games did well because they were the dominant force in the arcades over two decades. DECATHLETE was used to measure the numbers because SOJ were focusing their own sports titles in to the Sega Sports brand for the japanese market and they didn't have enough of them. DECATHLETE wasn't ported because it happned to be a succesful game if that was the case we would have seen DESERT TANK which sold a hell lot more than that title put together and that game was way more expensive.
Saturn is important because it marked the day when the Arcade Teams started to handle the ports them self's and in the Saturn days SEGA imagine for quailty games and good tech was there for all to see. Not the case anymore ,instead people like you are endlessly defending them
Saturn was important because its when Sega japan totally screwed up. It isn't memorable for the games to the majority of sega fans compared to genesis and DC.
Other than Bay was there a Platinum game that sold more than a million copies ?
Truth is Vanquish didn't sell that great, the likes of MadWorld, Nfinite Space and more so Anarchy Reigns total flops .
VANQUISH and BAYONETTA sold well, INFINITE SPACE was moderate, ANARCHY REIGNS and MADWORLD flopped. At first you were making out that they all flopped and now you changed your tune again. Anyway it wasn't worth Sega continuing the previous deal that they made which they didn't but it does appear they were going to go ahead with working on more titles until Sega was forced to cut back(once again) which left Nintendo in the wings to publish titles that may have ended up being Sega games and contracting with konami.
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Yeah, I guess that was why Streets of Rage 4 was cancelled.
I had to laugh at the NiGHTS sequel end result. I did like it but when I compare it to the first game, it comes off as a questionable game.
I can imagine Sonic Team adding some gimmick in BR so it doesn't ever become fun, so good points there.
SOR keeps getting canned over gaming politics. That's what happened in the saturn era, the DC eras, the XboxPs2 era and the current gen. It has a bad luck mojo over finances and market forces.
If Sega can get half the team back for any sequel or have a genuine good idea then they should bring it back. ORTA was a good solid game and it broke even but they didn't build on it and create a sequel. It may have had stronger sales and became a more familiar brand again. Two things hampered ORTA. It was living under the shadow of the third game which many people interested in this series really wanted another version of a PD RPG and that the Xbox games Sega was making wasn't making the impact that they should have done. But at least you can say with ORTA that you got something close to the original as some of the original staff was still involved. With NIGHTS only one of the original Sonic team was involved and it was the american branch of sonic team making the title. And they ruined it. I dunno if SOR digital was going to be good or crap,(looked ok) but i feel any direct game after a long absence should be done by SOJ and only SOJ and then let a western team do a version if you need it to be. That's why OVERKILL worked because it didn't step on the main HOTD series, it was clearly a spin off and the main series was still is still happening and being done by SOJ (considering the people involved with the main series were advisors to OVERKILL) A game like GOLDEN AXE BEAST RIDER however well we all know what happened there. A game of a series that hasn't been around for years and then they release a game which is really a spin off made by a sub division and not SOJ.
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. Only the biger franchises will remain being released as packages
Every Big SEGA game will come on disc with the consoles (non HH).
Sports games was treated like anyother title that sega made, just another game to do
They had a sports line, until the 1990's and the massive sales of Madden and Fifa most companies didn't have a dedicated sports Team. With massive sales of both Sensible World of Soccer on the Amiga and the likes of Madden and Fifa on the Mega Drive, everyone started to take note and put sports games right at the top.
Geez that's like saying that about 80percent of sega's games from the arcades
Yep.
SEGA was just doing what it always did and port a very successful coin up to the home and also hoping the gain sales on the back of the Olympics. Which is why no doubt the likes of konami brought Track and Field to the PS.
DESERT TANK which sold a hell lot more than that title put together and that game was way more expensive.
Desert Tank wasn't more successful for starters . And that's overlooking how it wasn't to to gain any sales on the back of the Olympics . There was quite a few ST-V games that never made it to the Saturn . Decathlete did great in the Arcade and ok in the home, which is why you get a sequel
to both the home and Arcades.
Saturn was important because its when Sega japan totally screwed up
No its just SEGA Japan best ever selling home console . I think you find it was SEGA America and Europe that screwed up with the 32X. SEGA Japan messed up by not making Sonic for the Saturn though.
VANQUISH and BAYONETTA sold well, INFINITE SPACE was moderate, ANARCHY REIGNS and MADWORLD flopped.
Please we all know Vanquish sales was poor not breaking the 1 million sales barrier for a Big Budget multi platform release is bad news . IS sold ok at the start in Japan it flopped everywhere else though .
Anyway it wasn't worth Sega continuing the previous deal that they made which they didn't
Hear we go your endless defence of SEGA. The deal was poor for SEGA and didn't work out and it's little wonder Platinum jumped ship or SEGA didn't even try for a new deal
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Every Big SEGA game will come on disc with the consoles (non HH).
Just the estabilshed franchises and some from their big developer talent but nothing less than that.
They had a sports line, until the 1990's
No they had it during the nineties. Not before.
SEGA was just doing what it always did and port a very successful coin up to the home and also hoping the gain sales on the back of the Olympics. Which is why no doubt the likes of konami brought Track and Field to the PS.
Track and field was an estabilshed IP. Not really the same thing. Sega brought DECATHLETE to complete the Sega Sports brand for saturn in japan. End of.
Desert Tank wasn't more successful for starters . And that's overlooking how it wasn't to to gain any sales on the back of the Olympics . There was quite a few ST-V games that never made it to the Saturn . Decathlete did great in the Arcade and ok in the home, which is why you get a sequel
to both the home and Arcades.
Rubbish DESERT TANK was succesful. The fact you don't know that isn't suprising.
No its just SEGA Japan best ever selling home console . I think you find it was SEGA America and Europe that screwed up with the 32X. SEGA Japan messed up by not making Sonic for the Saturn though.
No the screw up with the 32x is creating it in the first place and that was never SOA's call, since you like to keep blaming them for supposedly inventing that add on in the first place. SOJ screwed up royally with the saturn by not just creating a bonafide Sonic sequel that utilized the saturn but other games that were hits on the MD as well.
Please we all know Vanquish sales was poor not breaking the 1 million sales barrier for a Big Budget multi platform release is bad news . IS sold ok at the start in Japan it flopped everywhere else though .
VANQUISH didn't have to get a million sales to be successful, that's just rubbish. it sold well and was deemed successful, the sales it garned wasn't down to japan alone.
Hear we go your endless defence of SEGA. The deal was poor for SEGA and didn't work out and it's little wonder Platinum jumped ship or SEGA didn't even try for a new deal
Sega didn't have the funds to do a deal that Platinum wanted. Or did you miss the boat on the many games sega canned last year? It wasn't a bad deal especially with the competition that they had with everyone else. You're just sore about it because you didn't want the deal to happen in the first place judging by your constant digs at platinum ever since the whole thing was originally revealed. And if the split was so bitter than the whole deal with BAYONETTA's sequel would never been able to come about.
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No they had it during the nineties. Not before.
No SEGA never had a dedicated sports Team the 1990's . You bring up Smilebit/AM6 but it wasn't until 2004 that Smilebit became 'just' a sports Team. Before then SEGA would just have a Team line that would handle a sports game ; Like a Line in AM#1 handled most of SEGA baseball and Fishing games, AM#3 Tennis and Smilebit handling Lets make a Series, Football while also making the likes of Rally II, JSR, Hundred Swords (.
Just the estabilshed franchises and some from their big developer talent
Every Big New IP will be on disc, like it will for all the major parties .
Track and field was an estabilshed IP
What so of answer is that ? It was a Arcade game made in the mid 80's and where it never had a port to the main 8 or 16 bit consoles . Like SEGA, Koanmi were keen to jump on the Olympics with a sports game for the PS.
Rubbish DESERT TANK was succesful.
No . It was really hard to find in major Arcades even in their hey day . The fact that it never had a home port or a sequel in the Arcades should tell you all you need to know .
No the screw up with the 32x is creating it in the first place and that was never SOA's cal
At last one admits the 32X was a cock up .It was SOA call to push ahead;True to say the project was started by SOJ has they got worried by the 3DO hype but after that SOA pushed the idea hard and they believed in the system .
SEGA Japan made 2 screw ups - Giving the 32X to SOA (instead of canning it) and not making a dedicated Sonic game early in
VANQUISH didn't have to get a million sales to be successful, that's just rubbish
Big AAA multi platform games needs to sell a million copies mate . That's why you'll never see a sequel to the likes of Vanquished, Enslaved, Binary Domain . Great games that didn't do well at retail.
Sega didn't have the funds to do a deal that Platinum wanted.
This coming from the one that makes out SEGA is huge and bigger than the likes of Capcom,Konami, The one that for years refused to even accept that SEGA consumer teams made losses . So the great mighty SEGA can't afford to sign up Bay II ? .
The truth is SEGA has a bit of cash, but the Platnium deal was a horrid deal for SEGA and didn't work out at all
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No SEGA never had a dedicated sports Team the 1990's . You bring up Smilebit/AM6 but it wasn't until 2004 that Smilebit became 'just' a sports Team. Before then SEGA would just have a Team line that would handle a sports game ; Like a Line in AM#1 handled most of SEGA baseball and Fishing games, AM#3 Tennis and Smilebit handling Lets make a Series, Football while also making the likes of Rally II, JSR, Hundred Swords (.
i didn't bring up smilebit. you got me confused with someone else. not a suprise. sega didn't have any estabilshed sports division until sega sports and then soj only started to concentrate on a sports line during the saturn era.
Every Big New IP will be on disc, like it will for all the major parties .
no just estabilshed ip or ip from estabilshed developers. all new ip will majorally debut on digital.
What so of answer is that ? It was a Arcade game made in the mid 80's and where it never had a port to the main 8 or 16 bit consoles . Like SEGA, Koanmi were keen to jump on the Olympics with a sports game for the PS.
they also needed to fill out their Sega Sports line which they did and was the reason it got ported.
No . It was really hard to find in major Arcades even in their hey day . The fact that it never had a home port or a sequel in the Arcades should tell you all you need to know .
no it wasn't. that's like saying you could play DAYTONA in your local chippie. you couldn't. most of the model 2 arcade games were in the arcade centres at that time. DESERT TANK was all over the place, so don't come out with that bs.
At last one admits the 32X was a cock up .It was SOA call to push ahead;True to say the project was started by SOJ has they got worried by the 3DO hype but after that SOA pushed the idea hard and they believed in the system .
no it was soj's motive all along, if soj had no intrest in the add on they wouldn't have bothered releasing it in japan, for god's sake. and dont bother with the admit part either, I never said it was a good idea to make it but it was an understandable one but executed wrong. And i'm glad you finally admitting sega's fear over the 3do which soa was trying to market the saturn as its main competitor and that was the REAL mistake.
Big AAA multi platform games needs to sell a million copies mate . That's why you'll never see a sequel to the likes of Vanquished, Enslaved, Binary Domain . Great games that didn't do well at retail.
No. They just need to over come their budget and make a profit which VANQUISH did. BINARY DOMAIN however didn't because it didn't get the chance. A game doesn't need to see a milion copies to be judged a success. or YAKUZA would have ended years ago if it did. ::)
This coming from the one that makes out SEGA is huge and bigger than the likes of Capcom,Konami, The one that for years refused to even accept that SEGA consumer teams made losses . So the great mighty SEGA can't afford to sign up Bay II ? .
1 they didn't make losses at the time you stated, not as big as you were making out.
Just because sega canned a few games and lost money doesn't mean they aren't a bigger company than both konami and capcom. That's like saying Arsenal isn't a big football company despite losing money on a regular basis while a smaller club who is making money is more biger just because they've been more succesfully financial.
the difference my uneducated sega freind is that the difference betwen CSK Sega and Segasammy Sega is that they wont splash out on expensive or failed projects anymore when things aren't going well. Platinum only had two successes and a mid success. it wasn't worth paying all that dough to keep them as an exclusive second party . But they weren't the reason sega cut back, they cut back because a lot of games didn't do well. oddly enough platinum titles were the ones that did do well.
The truth is SEGA has a bit of cash, but the Platnium deal was a horrid deal for SEGA and didn't work out at all
It did work out, or the ANARCHY REIGNS game wouldn't have happened and neither would BAYONETTA 2 deal.
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sega didn't have any estabilshed sports division until sega sports and then soj only started to concentrate on a sports line during the saturn era.
SEGA Japan had lines that made sport games and that was continued right through SEGA console era. Only in 2004 did it established a dedicated sports Team.
no just estabilshed ip or ip from estabilshed developers. all new ip will majorally debut on digita
Not a chance . Every new major AAA game for the home consoles will come out on disc and that not change for years .
they also needed to fill out their Sega Sports line
? It was just brought out to cash in on the Olympics, and made quite a lot of money in the Arcades and people liked it. Just like with Maxi TT it did well in the Arcades and was ported to the home . I don't really think anyone ever had that as serious effort to be a sports game , even if it had 'SEGA Sports' on it .
no it wasn't. that's like saying you could play DAYTONA in your local chippie
Plenty of Arcades in the UK had the likes of House the Dead, Manx TT, Daytona USA USA, Gun Blade, Rally on them . Very few ever had Desert Tank in them.
if soj had no intrest in the add on they wouldn't have bothered releasing it in japan
? The Super 32X was brought out in tiny numbers and was almost like a gesture by SOJ (sort of like Kinect for the 360 in Japan). All of SOJ major and main efforts was put to the Saturn
And i'm glad you finally admitting sega's fear over the 3do which soa was trying to market the saturn as its main competitor and that was the REAL mistake
The 3DO came out in 1993 By the time of the Saturn the 3D0 was a total dead duck. Making a super Mega Drive to counter the threat of the Jag and 3D0 might have made sense in 1992/3 but but the middle of 1994 it was clear as day both formats were dead; That's when the 32X should have been scrapped
They just need to over come their budget and make a profit which VANQUISH did
?. I bet that game had a budget of like 30 million and it never sold enough copies at full price to pay that back. It's why not even Nintendo (with their love of Plat) will publish a sequel
A shame a sequel (ike with BD) could fix the mistakes and turn them in the utter gems .
1 they didn't make losses at the time you stated, not as big as you were making out
They've mad losses for years and years .
Just because sega canned a few games and lost money doesn't mean they aren't a bigger company than both konami and capcom
But not enough money to sign up Bay II ?
But they weren't the reason sega cut back, they cut back because a lot of games didn't do well. oddly enough platinum titles were the ones that did do well.
The real reason is SEGA most of the titles flopped and even the 1 major hit only sold just over a million copies at full retail price . Not good enough and not what SEGA had hopped for .
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SEGA Japan had lines that made sport games and that was continued right through SEGA console era. Only in 2004 did it established a dedicated sports Team.
No they didn't have dedicated lines to create sports games. You see there was once a period when sports games wasn't the massive sales factor in the video games market as it is now. but you'd have had to play games before the PSX era to know that.
Not a chance . Every new major AAA game for the home consoles will come out on disc and that not change for years .
Not according to sega.
? It was just brought out to cash in on the Olympics, and made quite a lot of money in the Arcades and people liked it. Just like with Maxi TT it did well in the Arcades and was ported to the home . I don't really think anyone ever had that as serious effort to be a sports game , even if it had 'SEGA Sports' on it .
MANXTT did ok not well. DEACTHLETE was hardly a hit. it just depends on how much you measure what the arcade buyers wanted to actual retail coinage. Using that argument you might as well say that TIME TRAVELLER was a hit which it technically was but was a flop because the actual people playing it was that high
Plenty of Arcades in the UK had the likes of House the Dead, Manx TT, Daytona USA USA, Gun Blade, Rally on them . Very few ever had Desert Tank in them.
Wrong. Major arcade chains had DESERT TANK in them because it was the newest in the latest model 2 line. And the arcade operators at that time wanted to cash in on these games because the model 2 games that were released like VF2 and DAYTONA were smash hits with the crowds. people were actually visiting arcads just to look and play at these games, crowds that normally didn't go to the arcades. Thjat's why the order for DT was exceptionally high for the type of game it was. HOTD MTT all came way after. So get your frigging time period right. But of course you'd have to be playing games at that period to know that DT was released before HOTD. I see someone needs to brush up on their retro mag reading before trying to pass off as knowing it all. Talk about being caught out.
? The Super 32X was brought out in tiny numbers and was almost like a gesture by SOJ (sort of like Kinect for the 360 in Japan). All of SOJ major and main efforts was put to the Saturn
Dont make me laugh. With the ad campaign they gave it and the fact that they invented the system and MADE the system and then let SOA take the marketing control with a strong budget to boot?! You really are losing the plot. Gesture? what a joke.
The 3DO came out in 1993 By the time of the Saturn the 3D0 was a total dead duck. Making a super Mega Drive to counter the threat of the Jag and 3D0 might have made sense in 1992/3 but but the middle of 1994 it was clear as day both formats were dead; That's when the 32X should have been scrapped
Not really. They were still advertisng the saturn like a multimedia system and SOA still thought they could succeed where the 3D0 didn't. Why not? Kalinske had done it before with the Sega CD and all the marketing hoopla he gave it. What they didn't contend with and should have known was that the audience wasn't going for multimedia but for what was then called 3D gaming in the form of VF and RR whicvh sony managed to capitilise on and when they realised that it was way too late.
?. I bet that game had a budget of like 30 million and it never sold enough copies at full price to pay that back. It's why not even Nintendo (with their love of Plat) will publish a sequel
VANQUISH budget didn't come to 30 million. So unless you actually KNOW it cost 30 million and not "bet" that it is i suggest you be quiet on the subject. And as for your second ridiculous question its probably to do with the other games that Platinum is making for nintendo and they want more original IP than ever. BAYONETTA which made the bigger splash is just a tool to draw more people to buy the system and a convient way for sega not to spend much money on a franchise that they are cashing in on.
A shame a sequel (ike with BD) could fix the mistakes and turn them in the utter gems .
Yes true.
They've mad losses for years and years .
No they haven't. Get your facts right and frigging read the public reports, do the math and then come back here and actually show where the big losses are.And dont be clever in your words either because you are clearly indicating that sega hasn't made any profit by using the term losses. Sega like any other company can incur losses and still make a profit. It depends on how high the loss is and if the losses are retail releated or R+D releated IE spending on development because of expenses.
But not enough money to sign up Bay II ?
Not enough to spend money on several games that were canned. They not going to raid their warchest (which is quite healthy under Segasammy)just to create games anymore when the times aren't good unfortunatly, they are spending to how much they make back during any fiscal year and that wasn't a good fiscal year for sega. So the titles suffered.
The real reason is SEGA most of the titles flopped and even the 1 major hit only sold just over a million copies at full retail price . Not good enough and not what SEGA had hopped for .
No most of the titles didn't flop. One was a great success. one was a moderate hit. One did well in strong sales and two flopped. Stop trying to rewrite history or even dictate on how sega should run things what makes a sega game or what makes a finacial hit when you haven't a clue about it. Like the CONDUIT debate which you claimed flopped when it didn't because it made its budget back from the number of copies sega released towards the market, you have this playstation mentality that every game has to hit a million when it doesn't work like that. every game has to hit its budget back and get a bit of profit after that. The number of copies shipped determines on exactly how much the company expects to see and what percentage they get back from it. Only MW, BAYONETTA and VANQUISH shipped in big numbers and MW was the one that didn't match a good percentage of its number compared to the other two.
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No they didn't have dedicated lines to create sports games. You see there was once a period when sports games wasn't the massive sales factor in the video games market as it is now
Sports games have been huge sellers and you only have to look at the number of Teams that was making sports games the last 20 years to see that: loads was making sports games in the 16 and 32 bit era's . All that changed is the market now is dominated by just a few companies . Sports games for a number of years have been massive sellers and big business.
MANXTT did ok not well. DEACTHLETE was hardly a hit
Decathlete performed great in the Arcades and did very decent in the home console market selling over 150,000 copies and doing very well in the UK charts too . It the main reason the go-ahead for the sequel was granted .
which it technically was but was a flop because the actual people playing it was that high
Time Traveller broke USA records at the time for a test coin up I seem to remember reading CVG. The game did very well in the Arcades, but it was a Laser Disc game and the unit (like almost all CD based coin ups before GD-Rom) had terrible issues with reliability thanks to the smoke/dust filled Arcades at the time.
Major arcade chains had DESERT TANK in them because it was the newest in the latest model 2 line
The fact is the game didn't come close to the sales of other Model 2 based coin ups and it was far harder to source the game .
So get your frigging time period right. But of course you'd have to be playing games at that period to know that DT was released before HOTD.
Nice way to miss the point . If a Arcade games makes money the Arcade operartor will still keep the unit there . That is why even with Rally II and Daytona USA II out, one would no doubt still see Daytona USA, Rally units in the same Arcade.
With the ad campaign they gave it and the fact that they invented the system and MADE the system
SEGA America developed the final 32X - Not SEGA Japan and SOJ hardly pushed the Super 32X at all when they were all guns blazing for the Saturn in 1994 Toyko show.
They were still advertisng the saturn like a multimedia system and SOA still thought they could succeed where the 3D0 didn't
It was a game machine , but for sure one would highlight its multi media caps . Just like Sony played on the PS2 DVD or the PS3 bluRay , or the way SEGA Europ pushed the internet side of the DC. They're all still games machines and that was what they were really developer for .
VANQUISH budget didn't come to 30 million.
30 Million is the average cost of making a next gen multi platform game .
that Platinum is making for nintendo and they want more original IP than ever.
Oh Yes Bay II is original IP .
No they haven't.
SEGA consumer side have made loads of losses over Sammy time . That's a fact .
No most of the titles didn't flop
Even the head of Platinum have said sales for their games has been disappointing
However, when it comes to sales, Minami confessed "I'd probably rate it as a C or even a D." Ouch!
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TA, the term is "coin-op" not "coin up." It means coin-operated. Sorry but I see you (and others) type this from time to time.